Speaker 1: Them taking top of a ms A I think is
Speaker 1: easy pickings, because those guys have to go through the
Speaker 1: corn ferry and be the bigger threat than Dustin Johnson
Speaker 1: or Phil or leave Less or or Alien Poulter. If
Speaker 1: they can sustain for five years and pick off the
Speaker 1: next Colin Morricala, the next Scottie Shuffler, then the live
Speaker 1: is a serious, serious threat. Put another log on the fire.
Speaker 1: Nobody hears. Give the time? All right here we are
Speaker 1: lighting a candle or lighting a fire pit, you tell me,
Speaker 1: But at this point it feels like much more than
Speaker 1: just a candle that's being lit in terms of the
Speaker 1: disruption that is professional golf, the idea that Phil Michols.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's probably no surprised everybody on this call
Speaker 1: right now, which is Alan Schipnuk, Michael Bamberger, Ryan French,
Speaker 1: Mac Barnhardt and myself Machinella at the Fire and Pit Collective.
Speaker 1: You know, yet another fire drill in which it's not
Speaker 1: a major championship, but it certainly is major news. And
Speaker 1: I think this this warranted a conversation and a huddle
Speaker 1: of some sort to say what exactly is about to transpire? Alan,
Speaker 1: whyn't you start well, it's been a chaotic moment for
Speaker 1: professional golf for a while now, and you know, Phil
Speaker 1: has been the center of this thing all along. The
Speaker 1: fact that he's going to break this exile in London
Speaker 1: at the first Saudi event is a monumental return to
Speaker 1: the stage. Um. It always felt like he was gonna
Speaker 1: jump after after he set himself on fire, um and
Speaker 1: and everything that transpired his life. You know, I thought
Speaker 1: that is the best road back for him to get
Speaker 1: in the good graces of the golf fan and the
Speaker 1: golf community was was to to pledge his field to
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour and show a little contrition. But you know,
Speaker 1: fills a double down personality. You see it on the
Speaker 1: golf course, You've see in Vegas, and he's done it again,
Speaker 1: and he's just putting all his chips in the middle
Speaker 1: of the table here with the Saudias. And if this
Speaker 1: thing succeeds and reshapes the sport, I think feels, you know,
Speaker 1: vision of himself as this maverick and this agent of
Speaker 1: change will be fulfilled. But if this is a turkey
Speaker 1: and it goes and the whole thing falls apart in
Speaker 1: a couple of years, it's it's going to be quite
Speaker 1: a political defeat for him. So it's a wild moment um.
Speaker 1: You know, he's taking Ricky Fowler, a prominent agent in
Speaker 1: the sports world who's not mcbarnard just said, I still
Speaker 1: think Bryson is going to go that that's happening, um.
Speaker 1: And so you know there's a lot of all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, there's a lot more star power aligned.
Speaker 1: For this first event, it was just Dustin and and
Speaker 1: a bunch of other guys no one really cared about.
Speaker 1: But you get filled, You get Ricky, who we all
Speaker 1: know he's he's been into slump. But I think the
Speaker 1: casual fans still gravitakes stars, Ricky Fowler, get Bryson wo
Speaker 1: again moves the needle like few others. Like all of
Speaker 1: a sudden looks like a little more of a of
Speaker 1: a real thing. So huge newsday, and you know it,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be the story of the summer for sure.
Speaker 1: I've heard you say this a couple of times that
Speaker 1: you thought, oh, if Phil just sort of fell on
Speaker 1: his sword and came back and apologize said the right
Speaker 1: things the PJ tour, that he'd be welcomed back, and
Speaker 1: that could be a possibility. But did you really think
Speaker 1: that he hadn't already signed enough paperwork to feel like
Speaker 1: he couldn't uh leave the live. Well, if you make
Speaker 1: a list of the guys that you don't want to
Speaker 1: owe money to on this planet, Saudi's are near the top, right,
Speaker 1: So how much Phil got as an advance and well,
Speaker 1: that one he's already gone. I mean that's probably a
Speaker 1: factor in all of this. H And also, you know,
Speaker 1: he's a very strident, kind of self righteous personality, and
Speaker 1: for him to kind of concede defeat and crawling back
Speaker 1: to the tour that was gonna be tough on him personally,
Speaker 1: and so um, it was always a coin flip, and
Speaker 1: I felt all along he could go either way, those
Speaker 1: compelling reasons to stay or to jump. But uh, you
Speaker 1: know that no one gets in better the Staudi except
Speaker 1: for the money. But you know, in Phil's cases, these
Speaker 1: these secondary issues of wanting to be vindicated and validated,
Speaker 1: and he wanted to feel like maybe all the strife
Speaker 1: was was first was not for nothing. So I'm not shocked,
Speaker 1: I'm not even that surprised, but I do think it
Speaker 1: complicates his legacy and if he wants to be righter
Speaker 1: cup captain if he wants to be an a team
Speaker 1: whole tower and next to his buddy Jim nance like,
Speaker 1: this makes that road back a lot tougher, because you know,
Speaker 1: he looks a little bit like like a mercenary, like
Speaker 1: like a morally bankrupt guy who we know his true
Speaker 1: feelings about the Staudies. He told them to me. They're
Speaker 1: in print, and yet he's still taking their money, and
Speaker 1: even after acknowledging their atrocities at it's uh, it's gonna
Speaker 1: it's gonna be complicated. But m you know, I think
Speaker 1: I think Phil just had to go all in, so
Speaker 1: it's gonna be He's a star, he's the headliner, he's
Speaker 1: a newsmaker. I mean, this thing becomes a lot more
Speaker 1: in treating with him over there, Michael Bamber, what do
Speaker 1: you make of all this? Well, Al and I have
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot in recent months. Um I thought,
Speaker 1: for you know, since Alan printed those comments from Phil,
Speaker 1: he absolutely was gonna go with live golf and with
Speaker 1: all credit. You know, the line followed the money, It's
Speaker 1: it's not in the book, it's in the movie. All
Speaker 1: the presidents men follow the money has never looked more
Speaker 1: appropriate or more insightful as a comment than it does.
Speaker 1: Right here. After, after Phil lost all his endorsement deals
Speaker 1: either suspended or voluntarily from the PGA Tour, Big Expensive life,
Speaker 1: he had to do something to make money. He was
Speaker 1: out of options, and um, he had to do this.
Speaker 1: I've I've been saying all along, he'll play all the
Speaker 1: live events, He'll he'll double down with this audies. Um,
Speaker 1: he'll try to keep his name in circulate among casual
Speaker 1: sportsman's by playing a major championships. Uh. But it's really
Speaker 1: a sad state of affairs just on Phil Mickelson on
Speaker 1: a personal level, that his private struggles were revealed in
Speaker 1: such a public way that his life has been turned
Speaker 1: upside down. And that's not a statement at all on
Speaker 1: what he told what he told Alan. That's a statement
Speaker 1: on what he acknowledged was his own recklessness and how
Speaker 1: he got himself in this position in the first place.
Speaker 1: Just to finish this one thought this is that this
Speaker 1: is total entertainment. Seventy two whole stroke play golf where
Speaker 1: you're guaranteed nothing and there's a thirty six old cut.
Speaker 1: That's the game we all grew up on. But the
Speaker 1: reason that it works is because it's great. Fifty four
Speaker 1: whole team event, guaranteed money, no cut is a glorified
Speaker 1: exhibition the greatness of the major championships in an I'm
Speaker 1: bar this idea from my friend Jimmy Dunn is that
Speaker 1: they are brands onto themselves and those brands and Tiger
Speaker 1: understand this, and Phil probably understands us but doesn't care
Speaker 1: or what made them great and made them rich both
Speaker 1: and um, he's turning his back on all of that.
Speaker 1: And I find it pathetic Mac your reaction to not
Speaker 1: only what Michael's and Nolan have just said, but just
Speaker 1: the news in general. I mean, obviously we've talked about
Speaker 1: you know that Andy Ogletree, who managed you know, got
Speaker 1: an invite to play him this week's live event. UM,
Speaker 1: not the series, but just this event, which coupled he
Speaker 1: played in the Asian Tour event last week in north
Speaker 1: of London. UM. And you know he'll tell you, and
Speaker 1: I'll tell you it wasn't anything that if this is no,
Speaker 1: he's not getting a big check. He's going to play
Speaker 1: in a golf tournament. You know, his goal is to
Speaker 1: find some more to play. And they've got the Asian Tour. UM.
Speaker 1: The Asian tours. You know, they get were ranking points
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of money in it. I mean
Speaker 1: relative to you know, he's a conditional corn Ferry member
Speaker 1: and he can't get in a can't get into you know,
Speaker 1: can't get into corn fairy Man. Just um he's got
Speaker 1: not got invited, so he didn't get invited to that. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it. I think this is you know, you're
Speaker 1: exactly right in the sense of these guys. They are
Speaker 1: going for the money. Um. And look, I had another
Speaker 1: client that got offered that turns you know that I
Speaker 1: had to. I had to take the offer to it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't not. And he's like, no, no thanks,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm good. That was pretty much the end of
Speaker 1: the text. Um. I think Phil had no I don't
Speaker 1: think Phil had anywhere to go if m if he
Speaker 1: does it, I think on the flip side, UM, you
Speaker 1: know the players that are doing it, I think what
Speaker 1: you're gonna see? I think what if I heard the
Speaker 1: same rumors about Ricky and uh Ashmbo. I think once
Speaker 1: somebody jumped, they Dustin jumped and they didn't get tortured
Speaker 1: or shot. I think a lot of guys started going
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get the money. You know. Um, I think
Speaker 1: it's just like you know Bam said, it's it's it's been,
Speaker 1: it's been our lives the whole time. And even the
Speaker 1: tour must think something about it, because that's why they
Speaker 1: did the p I P. I mean, they they're gonna
Speaker 1: pay more money to keep them, which I think I
Speaker 1: said on an earlier podcast, I didn't think the tour
Speaker 1: has to do anything. I think the tour puts on
Speaker 1: a great product, great course is the great thing. Um.
Speaker 1: Whether this works or not, I don't think. I think
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour creates most of these personalities and you know,
Speaker 1: along with obviously the majors, um, but you know, whether
Speaker 1: they're working or not or with these guys. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the guys just took the money. I mean they're just
Speaker 1: taking guarantee pay. Is it a glorify an exhibition? I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean kind of everything else. But that's a that's
Speaker 1: a deep thought. But one thing I want to say
Speaker 1: is I don't think anyone's upset at Andy Ogiltreet. He's
Speaker 1: just looking for a place to play and he's been
Speaker 1: He's had the door slammed on him a few times.
Speaker 1: You know, Phil Nicholson is fully exampled in every big
Speaker 1: tournament there is for the next five years. Like he
Speaker 1: certainly had a home on the PG Tour. Now he
Speaker 1: would have had to earn back some of the endorsements
Speaker 1: and some of the money, which he certainly could have
Speaker 1: by spreading goodwill and with good play. So there's a
Speaker 1: It's an interesting dynamic that the Saudi's have set up
Speaker 1: by inviting these young guys who who are looking for
Speaker 1: opportunity and they don't want to they don't want to
Speaker 1: starve to death playing that the corn ferry of the
Speaker 1: Tino America. Like, I don't think and Ryan can speak
Speaker 1: to this. I don't think people are mad about that.
Speaker 1: It's it's these stars who have all the exemptions and
Speaker 1: have all the money in the bank. And this is
Speaker 1: not out of assassy, this is out of choice. And
Speaker 1: even Phil saying nowhere else to go, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't fully agree with that. Well, I think Phil, I
Speaker 1: mean I don't think Phil. I always thought that Phil
Speaker 1: was going to replace you know, well I shouldn't say replaced,
Speaker 1: but I thought he would do TV with CBS. I
Speaker 1: think he would have got some type of romo type
Speaker 1: package to come with CBS. I really did. I thought
Speaker 1: he would be running through Arnold Palmer and doing Penzel
Speaker 1: commercials driving a tractor. That's what Phil I mean he
Speaker 1: would have thought so I thought. I don't. I think
Speaker 1: he could have made the money back, but I don't
Speaker 1: know how fast, because it might take a couple of
Speaker 1: years of redemption parades or something. I don't know, Ryan,
Speaker 1: I mean to to to Alan's point, you covered you
Speaker 1: cover this game where guys are going backwards even when
Speaker 1: they finished top ten on the Latin American Tour. You
Speaker 1: know they they can't. They almost it's nearly impossible. Uh,
Speaker 1: the odds are so stacked against them to try to
Speaker 1: make a living playing professional golf, even though they can
Speaker 1: shoot sixty four on any given day on any given
Speaker 1: golf course, any given situation. They have the talent, they
Speaker 1: just don't always have the opportunities. For you, what's your
Speaker 1: perspective where you're at when you look at a guy
Speaker 1: like Andy ogul Tree versus who literally can't get a start,
Speaker 1: barely gets letters back as he's saying, hey, I won
Speaker 1: the animos low am at the pastors give me you
Speaker 1: can I give a shot, And he's not even getting
Speaker 1: answers back. And you certainly, like Alan said, you don't
Speaker 1: you don't see don't see the issue or harm in
Speaker 1: him doing him. He's he's trying to make a living
Speaker 1: playing professional golf, but fills a different issue. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I said to uh, you know a few players today.
Speaker 1: Actually is no one's met at Chase Kpka, No one's
Speaker 1: met at any Oval Tree, no one's mad at Henry
Speaker 1: Duplas from you know, from South Africa. And honestly, if
Speaker 1: you think about like Richard Bland, no one's really mad
Speaker 1: at Richard Bland, the guy played forever on the European Tour,
Speaker 1: bounced back and forth from the Challenge Tour, the whatever,
Speaker 1: and now he's getting a payday like kind of no
Speaker 1: one's mad, but especially the young guys. I mean Andy
Speaker 1: doesn't have a place to play. Chase Kepka, Yes, I
Speaker 1: know he's Brooks brother, but I know Chase on a
Speaker 1: on a personal level. He saves money all the time,
Speaker 1: flies into different airports, drives the smallest rental car, does
Speaker 1: all the things that a lot of many tour players
Speaker 1: got get. If he's getting money from Brooksi sure is
Speaker 1: hiding it. Well, so I know he gets opportunities, but
Speaker 1: he's trying to survive, so he's going over there. Whether
Speaker 1: Brooks is part of the deal or whatever is irrelevant. Brooks.
Speaker 1: I mean, Chase is looking out for his own career,
Speaker 1: and he's looking out for his own career. If Andy
Speaker 1: or Chase play well and make a million and a
Speaker 1: half dollars, that extends his career for the X amount
Speaker 1: of years. And that that's what a lot of these guys,
Speaker 1: as I cover all the time, money ends their careers.
Speaker 1: Mac Now is it better than I do? Money ends?
Speaker 1: And they quickly forget that Andy oglod Oval trees the
Speaker 1: USAM Champion like that. Like golf is a fast moving
Speaker 1: train and you don't take advantage of those early exemptions,
Speaker 1: they're gonna leave you behind. Talk to some friends of
Speaker 1: James Piat that this year's U S M who's going
Speaker 1: over there, and through the friends are like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: you know he's getting money. It's play on the corn
Speaker 1: Ferry Tour where you can win. If you win a
Speaker 1: corn Ferry event, you get a hundred and thirteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: You finished dead last at the live event, you get
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty plus. James is getting some upfront money,
Speaker 1: a good amount, like who wouldn't take it? Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it falls under the n I L. The money is
Speaker 1: up front. Yeah. So and and I think in Allen
Speaker 1: and I and all of us talked about it before
Speaker 1: coming on them. Taking top am s A I think
Speaker 1: is easy pickings because those guys have to go through
Speaker 1: the corn ferry and be the bigger threat than Dustin
Speaker 1: Johnson or phil or Lee West or Alien Poulter. If
Speaker 1: they can sustain for five years and pick off the
Speaker 1: next Colin Maricala, the next uh you know whatever, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the next Scottie Shuffler, then the live is a serious,
Speaker 1: serious threat. Yeah. I mean Scottie Shuffler is Scottie Scheffler
Speaker 1: because he's won multiple times on the PGA Tour and
Speaker 1: one a major championship. Like to say, you're gonna find
Speaker 1: the next Scottie Shufler, are you we really think we're
Speaker 1: gonna in a fifty four whole shotgun event with no cut.
Speaker 1: You really think we're gonna be uh you know any
Speaker 1: even the guy who wins, we're gonna say, oh, he's
Speaker 1: the next Scottie Scheffler. Well, but if you're superstar on
Speaker 1: the p g A tour, right, like Scottie Shuffler playing
Speaker 1: at the live event means he's not on the PGA Tour. Well,
Speaker 1: we know we miss him, no, but you know there's
Speaker 1: gonna be thirty winners and thirty six events on the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour instead of you know, Scottie Scheffler winning four
Speaker 1: or five times. Well that's where these Saudi events could
Speaker 1: be exciting, is if you come down the stretch and
Speaker 1: you have these young guys have a chance to win
Speaker 1: because four million dollars will change their life. It's not
Speaker 1: gonna change Justin's life. I mean, he'll enjoy it and
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll have fun blowing it. But the for
Speaker 1: these guys, it is an astronomical amount of money and
Speaker 1: that will actually add some tension and there's you know,
Speaker 1: I think that that puts him to the test, but
Speaker 1: kind of I will say, in the whole if you
Speaker 1: go through the whole list of the people who are playing,
Speaker 1: the name that's most intriguing to me is Taylor Good
Speaker 1: because he is a guy who's very young and on
Speaker 1: the upswing and he could have a very long, profitable
Speaker 1: career on the PGA Tour. And for him to turn
Speaker 1: his back on the tour and take this leap of faith.
Speaker 1: When you talk about if there's going to be litigation,
Speaker 1: if you have to announce membership, all these things. He's
Speaker 1: the guy that matters for because he's got ten or
Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty years in front of him. You know,
Speaker 1: Phil and Kevin Nah and those guys. They can walk
Speaker 1: away and it's not really a risk. They've already made
Speaker 1: their money, they've kind of maxed out what they could
Speaker 1: do on the PGA tour. But a guy like Goots,
Speaker 1: like there's gonna be litigation, I would make him the
Speaker 1: defendant because he's someone who would benefit from this idea
Speaker 1: where if the whole world order changes and you can
Speaker 1: keep your tour membership and you can still play some
Speaker 1: the Saudi events. That's what a lot of the players
Speaker 1: would love, right they it's the best of both worlds.
Speaker 1: And um so, I think he's a key guy in this.
Speaker 1: It's kind of an overlooked by the casual fan, but
Speaker 1: when you factor in the age in the world ranking,
Speaker 1: he's the most intriguing name on the whole list. I think.
Speaker 1: I mean, behind the scenes, guys, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: players that want to do this. I mean there's people
Speaker 1: silently behind the scenes they're saying they want to do it.
Speaker 1: They're they're they're a scared there. They don't want to
Speaker 1: get beat up. I mean there's but they want to
Speaker 1: do it. They may want to do they may want
Speaker 1: to do it, but they don't know why they want
Speaker 1: to do it. They think having all that money is
Speaker 1: going to make a happy But the the the thing
Speaker 1: that made him so good at golf in the first
Speaker 1: place was the sire and Alan and I were talking
Speaker 1: to Jeff Ogilby when we're at the at the PGA Championship,
Speaker 1: was wonderful. The opportunity to show off your skills to
Speaker 1: your friends and in other words, the driving force of
Speaker 1: what really makes golf golf is not guaranteed money. It's
Speaker 1: the opposite of guaranteed money. And fift or four whole
Speaker 1: not cut team events is not gonna cut it um.
Speaker 1: Now if they can figure out through through through uh,
Speaker 1: through the courts, basically that there's a way to play
Speaker 1: both tours, you have course, Mac they're gonna line up
Speaker 1: like crazy for the free money. But the thing that
Speaker 1: is the driving force in their life for all these
Speaker 1: guys is not money. One golf too. It's the other
Speaker 1: way around, it's golf one money too. Yeah. But you
Speaker 1: know what's intriguing is that if you're dustiny your phil
Speaker 1: you can still play the majors, and so you still
Speaker 1: get you still those of them most important tournaments. We
Speaker 1: all know that there's still the grandest stages are still
Speaker 1: the most electricity. So in a small way, like now,
Speaker 1: the U s g is because of the timing of this,
Speaker 1: they're obviously they've just punted. They're gonna whoever's exempted the
Speaker 1: US Opens canna play the US Open, whether they sign
Speaker 1: up to live or not. I'm sure it'll be the
Speaker 1: same thing for the Open Championship. The real litmus test
Speaker 1: will be next year's Masters, when there's another seven or
Speaker 1: eight months for all this stuff to get sorted out
Speaker 1: and or adjudicated by the courts. Like but if the
Speaker 1: Major's just decide, you know, the governing bodies that run
Speaker 1: the majors, if they decide this is not our fight.
Speaker 1: We go off the world ranking and you know, hey,
Speaker 1: you're the Saudi event on the European Tour. We've we've
Speaker 1: acknowledged those world breaking points and that money and and
Speaker 1: we don't want to get involved in geopolitics, and golf
Speaker 1: is golf, and if you can play the Saudi Tour
Speaker 1: and you can play the major's, like why wouldn't Brooks
Speaker 1: kept to sign up for that? Because his disdain for
Speaker 1: the everyday tour events has been is well known, Like
Speaker 1: that would be a dream if you're a Brooks Kepta
Speaker 1: or if you're a big game hunter. So I think
Speaker 1: whether the majors stay on the table will also decide
Speaker 1: how many guys keep lining up for this And I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys can better answer this book. Wouldn't
Speaker 1: you think that if the U s g A and
Speaker 1: the RNA and the Masters accept these guys into the
Speaker 1: live that it says a little bit about the power
Speaker 1: that the PGA Tour is losing, because as far as
Speaker 1: I know, they've gone along with suspensions and like kind
Speaker 1: of held the same thing that the PGA Tour does.
Speaker 1: And if they just say, yeah, these guys from the
Speaker 1: liver and I think it speaks a lot to you know,
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour is held as you guys know better
Speaker 1: than I have the immense power. And if the U
Speaker 1: s g A just says no, we're still letting these
Speaker 1: guys in. I think it speaks to that as much
Speaker 1: as anything else the PGA Tour does are at the
Speaker 1: major championships. If the majors allow live players to come
Speaker 1: over and kind of turn their back on the PGA Tour, right,
Speaker 1: I think the Masters, they'll be holding their nose all
Speaker 1: the while. There is no First of all, you have
Speaker 1: people like Dustin Johnson, Phil Nicholson, They've got invitations for
Speaker 1: life until the age out. But then you have people
Speaker 1: like Louise tis And who could of course top four
Speaker 1: in any open and get himself, you know, in next
Speaker 1: year's Masters. There is no way on God's screen Earth
Speaker 1: Augustin Nashal is going to say you can't play because
Speaker 1: they have a list of published, list of criteria required,
Speaker 1: and they're not gonna They're not gonna buy up their
Speaker 1: own list. They're gonna lean back to what would Bobby
Speaker 1: Jones say? But to Alan's point, your brooks kept and
Speaker 1: your bored by the pH A Tour. Anyhow, you know
Speaker 1: you can play the four major championships, I would say,
Speaker 1: and I'm borrowing this idea as well, but it's I
Speaker 1: think it's a very valid idea. If you're so far
Speaker 1: down the road that you're just chasing the money, and
Speaker 1: you know, playing these whatever kind of events on courses
Speaker 1: that are not they're not sending to all events. They're
Speaker 1: not they're they're they're not championship courses as as we
Speaker 1: like to think of them. I think on some level,
Speaker 1: you've folded your hand to such a degree that you'll
Speaker 1: never you might be able to contend us on talent alone.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see those guys ever winning a
Speaker 1: major championship again. I can't imagine Dustin Johnson, whatever is
Speaker 1: going on in his head right now, we'll ever get
Speaker 1: it together just to win a major championship. And phillis
Speaker 1: fifty one. I mean, look, I agree, I don't think
Speaker 1: the major championships are going to get in that fight.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, one of the one of the
Speaker 1: things that behind the scenes, when not you know, talking,
Speaker 1: you know, the SALDI investment funds got four hundred billion
Speaker 1: dollars in it, and somebody, pretty smart guy to me says,
Speaker 1: you know, what are the odds that that for some
Speaker 1: of that four hundred billion is lurking in major investment
Speaker 1: and current PGA tour sponsors of course, and I think
Speaker 1: these guys are not the first people to go to
Speaker 1: Saudi arab but to make a lot of money. There's
Speaker 1: been a lot of people, there's a lot of companies
Speaker 1: that have gone over there to make money. Um. So
Speaker 1: I think in that case, I don't think the major
Speaker 1: champion chips are going to get into where you know,
Speaker 1: where the money came from all these kind of things, right, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean to put it more bluntly, how many how
Speaker 1: many Augustin National members are making money in Saudi Arabia?
Speaker 1: Half two thirds? You know, like, yeah, that's that's not
Speaker 1: a fight they want. I mean, um, there's on for
Speaker 1: a long time. Yeah, exactly. Again, when when you look
Speaker 1: at the European PGA Tour, it would not exist without
Speaker 1: the money from oppressive regimes. All their biggest persons come
Speaker 1: from China, from Saudi Arabia, from the United Arab Emirates.
Speaker 1: And so I don't think the professional golf wants to
Speaker 1: start weighing in on the legitimacy of the money, like
Speaker 1: I think it just is and it's been accepted. Um.
Speaker 1: But what the fans are different fans They can vote
Speaker 1: with their their pocketbooks and uh, you know you saw
Speaker 1: that with h and again ups dropping Lee Westwood and
Speaker 1: um and Luis Tais is interesting. But I'm sure you
Speaker 1: can still send a you know, box sees candy to
Speaker 1: someone who stationed over in Saudi Arabia through ups like
Speaker 1: are they can start doing business over there? Probably not.
Speaker 1: Are they going to drop these golfers and make this
Speaker 1: this somewhat hollow public gesture they already have. But there's
Speaker 1: many layers of irony and or hypocrisy in this whole situation.
Speaker 1: And um, it's where it gets. I think that that
Speaker 1: these gray areas are allowing people to operate and uh
Speaker 1: and and kind of come to terms with this whole
Speaker 1: situation say, well, there's there's a lot of examples of
Speaker 1: people making money over there. I'm just gonna I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna join the chorus. So it's a very complicated, very
Speaker 1: interesting situation to the point where Greg Norman says that
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas is a hypocrite for what he said and
Speaker 1: how he said it building a golf course in Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia and then denouncing uh live golf and saying I
Speaker 1: turned that job down. I mean, the whole thing is
Speaker 1: the whole thing is insane. I mean I've been covering golf.
Speaker 1: I still can't wrap my head around the idea that
Speaker 1: Phil is going and Jack didn't go, or Tiger passed
Speaker 1: on a reportedly billion you know, a billion dollar offer.
Speaker 1: I mean, guys, this is you know, and and the
Speaker 1: other thing is is and I think we can all
Speaker 1: agree that the PGA Tour has overstepped their kind of
Speaker 1: control of what is deemed professional golf. And you've got
Speaker 1: these these other tours in which players are grinding it
Speaker 1: out and not making money, and the tour is restricting
Speaker 1: how much they can make on those tours to make
Speaker 1: sure that they keep trying to play. You know, for
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, the craziness that is unfolding in front
Speaker 1: of us right now and for the foreseeable future as
Speaker 1: it relates to professional golf is mind bending at at
Speaker 1: at a level that I I just every ten minutes,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure figure out how I feel and
Speaker 1: what I should think and and and to that point,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to some at all like
Speaker 1: an apology for the PGA Tour, because I think many
Speaker 1: weeks they've got boring tournaments for boring players on boring courses.
Speaker 1: They've they've they've robbed the players of their personalities by
Speaker 1: pushing all these statistics at us and actually uh changing
Speaker 1: the very nature of the game that sort of opened
Speaker 1: up the door to this happening in the first place.
Speaker 1: So there really is nobody you know in a white
Speaker 1: hat here, Ryan, I mean, of all the things, the
Speaker 1: p G A Tour and sort of your relationship with
Speaker 1: the tour and like I mean, deep down inside me,
Speaker 1: if this wasn't so forward facing of blood money and
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia money, I would be cheering on live golf
Speaker 1: so hard. I'd be like, Yes, we finally got somebody
Speaker 1: to take on the the the the obnoxiousness of the
Speaker 1: p G A freaking tour, which is outrageously out of Matt. Matt.
Speaker 1: It should be noted that Bill Michelson has a registered
Speaker 1: train mark and an n f T or whatever that
Speaker 1: thing is called. On the word obnoxiousness, I'm sorry, without
Speaker 1: your without his express written permission, this podcast going to
Speaker 1: use that word, um mac mac right, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: you and I have had enough conversations where it's like
Speaker 1: something has got to change and part of me and
Speaker 1: Michelson and I actually exchange tweets back going back to
Speaker 1: a t and t about Michelson has since she's saying,
Speaker 1: you know, You've got a lot of the same complaints
Speaker 1: I have, and it was like, yeah, we do, but
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it with Saudi Arabia. I mean there
Speaker 1: there's there is something to be said for the idea
Speaker 1: that part of me is kind of rooting for this
Speaker 1: to actually be an agent of change. I I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: that's the way I feel. Well, there's there's you know,
Speaker 1: on one side, there's too much golf on TV. It's
Speaker 1: every week, every week, every week, the same you know
Speaker 1: TF on Thursday. But on the flip side, you know,
Speaker 1: there's so much, so many more good players than they
Speaker 1: were twenty five years ago when they came up with
Speaker 1: the Hogan Tour that turned into the Nike Tour. To
Speaker 1: the web dot com or buy dot com. Um, there
Speaker 1: isn't enough space underneath the tour. And this is what
Speaker 1: we talked about when they found the extra money. I
Speaker 1: was like, man, I wish they would have put that
Speaker 1: some more money in the corn ferry and built me
Speaker 1: another tournament level under the theory to get these guys playing.
Speaker 1: Going back to the baseball analogy, Yeah, so absolutely, if
Speaker 1: they there there was just a void. I mean again
Speaker 1: the amount of people that would if you put tournaments on.
Speaker 1: I mean, for an example, we did a tournament Frederica
Speaker 1: that we helped. We did a g pro event there.
Speaker 1: It's a little mini tour event and it was the
Speaker 1: first thirty six was at ce Palms and then the
Speaker 1: top thirty and ties got to play frederic in the
Speaker 1: last day. And that thing filled up so fast at
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars or twells a person. And I mean
Speaker 1: and first prize was twelve grand and it filled up
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, so there was a there was
Speaker 1: a need that wasn't being failed. Now it got failed
Speaker 1: from the top. But this is what I think will happen.
Speaker 1: I hope that would happen from this from the tour
Speaker 1: is that they will create more opportunities for people to
Speaker 1: play and and to survive. Well, I think it's for
Speaker 1: the casual fan. He's trying to make sense of all this.
Speaker 1: The best outcome potentially is that this this lights a
Speaker 1: fire under the PGA Tour two improve its product and
Speaker 1: its presentation. You know, golf on TV is just emerging
Speaker 1: into the nineties. Maybe they're still there. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: That you even reach the one century, but make make
Speaker 1: the TV presentation much more modern and cooler and more
Speaker 1: access to the players, more much better social media. Much
Speaker 1: like the tour got fat and happy because they never
Speaker 1: had competition, and now they've got a huge competitor. It
Speaker 1: has a lot more money and seems a lot more motivation.
Speaker 1: So if you're trying to make sense of this from
Speaker 1: a fan perspective, maybe this is a good thing. It's like, um,
Speaker 1: it'll first, it'll for it'll compel the PGA Tour to
Speaker 1: improve and more dynamic formats for its events, better golf courses,
Speaker 1: and you can go on down the list of ways
Speaker 1: that the tour could be more fun and more dynamic.
Speaker 1: And um, if if the saludy schedule evolves, and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it gives us some good tournaments in the fall
Speaker 1: that you know, it's kind of lacking on the pg Tour,
Speaker 1: maybe that feels a void too. I mean, this could
Speaker 1: be a win for fans, um And I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if they care about the geopolitics the way we do
Speaker 1: and what it all means, but um, you know, they
Speaker 1: like they like watching golfers play golf, and if you know,
Speaker 1: this live event I don't really even understand that that
Speaker 1: the team component. I think it sounds like a turkey,
Speaker 1: But maybe it'll turn out to be cool and you
Speaker 1: give give bonus points for trying. You know, we all,
Speaker 1: we all suffer in the TV windows when you turn
Speaker 1: on the TV on Thursday afternoon and Tiger Whoevers already
Speaker 1: finished the round and you can get to watch it.
Speaker 1: You know, the shotgun start alleviates that it was on
Speaker 1: the golf course at the same time, so it'll be
Speaker 1: different viewing experience. Um So, I don't know. It's it's
Speaker 1: this could be a win for golf fans, but it's
Speaker 1: definitely gonna it's a chaotic moment. It's gonna take a
Speaker 1: little time to sort out. I can't I can't wait.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to watch some I can't wait to
Speaker 1: watch Phil Mickelson like get his card and he's like thirteen.
Speaker 1: You know, the horrible walk you have to make when
Speaker 1: you have a shotguns start and you're like, where's thirteen.
Speaker 1: Everybody's pointing that, like where's thirteen? Oh, that's four, that's
Speaker 1: that's Johnson just wandering around like, oh shoot, I don't
Speaker 1: know where the fifty is And you know evolve been
Speaker 1: to a scribble. We all know that there's some poor
Speaker 1: bastard who cannot find the team. You know where six is? Yeah?
Speaker 1: The ogl tree is just like where's even? Where are
Speaker 1: seven riding around on the backs of cards? You know,
Speaker 1: making going through fairways? Yeah? Where's my car? Where do
Speaker 1: I park it? You know? Where I picket? Can I
Speaker 1: drive in it? After? Should I leave the key in it?
Speaker 1: Or do I take the key with me? Right? You
Speaker 1: have it dead to rights? And poor Indian treat he
Speaker 1: saw even in six A. He's in six B. So
Speaker 1: he's gotta wait for the other group and then yeah,
Speaker 1: and then he's gonna be the longest walk I mean,
Speaker 1: Chase Keptco. They're gonna be like I mean, I tweeted
Speaker 1: it out, like you know, in golf. This was a
Speaker 1: moment that I realized I wasn't in good golfer. So
Speaker 1: I grew up in northern Michigan town. I was always
Speaker 1: one A in high school. And then I went to
Speaker 1: my first big junior tournament and I grabbed the card
Speaker 1: and they're like thirteen B and I'm like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: I'm not very good. Chase Kepco is gonna be like
Speaker 1: thirteen B. You know, it'll be and Chase and they'll
Speaker 1: be like, well, you have a seven and a half
Speaker 1: mile walk out to gonna try to ogle. She's gonna
Speaker 1: try to call Mac to get directions to thirteen. But
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like he's gonna be all fucket And
Speaker 1: this guy has never used the word fuck in his life.
Speaker 1: And he's like, Wow, get me onto the get me
Speaker 1: onto the Nike Tour. I don't care what they call it.
Speaker 1: By the way, you know, not to get all crazy here,
Speaker 1: but you are doubling down with Trump. You know, two
Speaker 1: of these events are already what two events or Trump
Speaker 1: Edminster and and Trump Miami Norman and Trump ere thing
Speaker 1: uh there. Simon Gidman is the architect of Centurion. Simon
Speaker 1: Gidman worked with Martin Hawtrey. Martin Hawtrey built Trump Aberdeen,
Speaker 1: So there's you know, I'm sure they were around figuring
Speaker 1: out like who what courses might have an associates a
Speaker 1: private golf course, you know, outside of London. I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know if that had anything to do with it,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure there's something along those lines. Mac. I
Speaker 1: was curious, is too when you said Andy gets no
Speaker 1: upfront money, and I thought, and I'm probably mixing the
Speaker 1: Premier Golf League with Live Golf League, but I thought
Speaker 1: the structure was always they'd pay the big money to
Speaker 1: the team captain. The team captain then how to use
Speaker 1: that money to entice or to pay out the teammates.
Speaker 1: I mean, how is do you have any sense of
Speaker 1: how these teams are going to be formed and what
Speaker 1: it all means now why it matters? Obviously I've got
Speaker 1: an n d A through Andy stuff. But the way
Speaker 1: I understand it is they have twelve team captains and
Speaker 1: kind of like they do a pro am draw, they
Speaker 1: have a draw where they picked their team. So I'm
Speaker 1: assuming Phil will have a team and Leo have a team,
Speaker 1: and so I think they do just like a baseball draft.
Speaker 1: They just go pick and you and then you back
Speaker 1: it off and until they picked three guys. Um, honestly,
Speaker 1: I have no I had no idea about that that
Speaker 1: could be interesting at least for a little while. Like
Speaker 1: the poor people that are left. You know, you gotta
Speaker 1: televise that that would actually be amazing. That it's too
Speaker 1: beastball or three best ball. I think it's like two
Speaker 1: best ball or three best ball for the team, so
Speaker 1: you could you could finish last but make a birdie
Speaker 1: on your last hold to you know, to move her
Speaker 1: because I don't. Again, I don't know how they do that.
Speaker 1: B back, what about dead last in the stroke play competition?
Speaker 1: What would that pay a guy? Alright, well, that's guaranteed money,
Speaker 1: guaranteed money and guaranteed individual money. Yeah. No, No, the
Speaker 1: team the team money is only paying like a certain
Speaker 1: top team's top three or something. But they're giving it
Speaker 1: out every week. I mean there's team money every single week,
Speaker 1: and there's there's a year long leaderboard. And the fact
Speaker 1: that we have five people on here who fall a
Speaker 1: golf pretty closely and we don't even really know how
Speaker 1: it's gonna work speaks to how nutty it is and
Speaker 1: maybe how poorly they've educated the fans. It's just kind
Speaker 1: of like just one more layer a quick brown table.
Speaker 1: How many events have spelled gonna play? How many live events?
Speaker 1: Anybody think other than it? Now? I mean he didn't
Speaker 1: he didn't use the words like Kevin nodded, but Phil
Speaker 1: in his statement he released stay basically resigned from the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. I mean, it was pretty clear he's done,
Speaker 1: and that's a whole other podcast, probably the legal aspect.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's clever for these guys to
Speaker 1: resign their tour membership because now the tour can't suspend them.
Speaker 1: Was like, hey, I'm not I'm not a member. You
Speaker 1: can't touch me and um, so you know, this is
Speaker 1: totally off the subject. Well not totally, but I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys saw, but Sam Harrap is the
Speaker 1: guy who sings the funny songs, and he tweeted today
Speaker 1: that the last paragraph has double spaces between the uh,
Speaker 1: the periods and the first two paragraphs have single spaces.
Speaker 1: So his surmise was that Phil added the second the
Speaker 1: last paragraph. If you go look at the statement, it's
Speaker 1: three paragraphs. The first two paragraphs only have one space,
Speaker 1: but after a period, the second the last paragraph has
Speaker 1: two spaces. So he's surmising that Phil added the last paragraph.
Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting Sam to come up with that. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's so obvious. Alan, Can I ask you your your
Speaker 1: your your reading of the of the of Phil statement?
Speaker 1: What what did what did you pick up on that
Speaker 1: others might not about the story behind the story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the talking about the therapy you know, that's
Speaker 1: like that that's such a private thing to make public
Speaker 1: like And I guess it's just part of this. This
Speaker 1: is the fact that fills an underground through all of this,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't appear there's gonna be any big apology tory,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of thought, well, before he returns
Speaker 1: to Golfield, we'll go on Oprah and he'll do all
Speaker 1: these controlled things. I mean, here we are, it's Monday.
Speaker 1: He's just jetting into London, um, and he's just gonna
Speaker 1: play play golf turn like nothing ever happened with the
Speaker 1: last four months. I think I think that's another way
Speaker 1: of him trying to get out in front of this
Speaker 1: is like there's a there's It's just like the last
Speaker 1: paragraph of his previous statement hinted at some deep stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's, you know, he he's read
Speaker 1: my book. Now he realizes he can survive that. He's
Speaker 1: worried about what's in Billy Walter's book. He might be
Speaker 1: worried about what else is going to come out about
Speaker 1: his life away from golf. And these are just sort
Speaker 1: of preemptive strikes. But um, you know, I I that
Speaker 1: was the most striking thing to me because I'm not
Speaker 1: a public figure like Phil, But I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'd be talking about my my therapy in in that
Speaker 1: kind of a setting. You know. It's, um, it was
Speaker 1: very personal in that regard and almost felt a little
Speaker 1: um too much. So, but I think I think Phil
Speaker 1: again is just trying to get out in front of things.
Speaker 1: So that that that was my big takeaway. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a political rehab handbook of things to do and say,
Speaker 1: and I mean, you know, yeah, but he's yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: but that was I mean, think about like tigers return
Speaker 1: to golf, how controlled it was, you know, the five
Speaker 1: minute interviews with a couple of things and the public
Speaker 1: statement where he didn't take questions, and like there was
Speaker 1: a whole series of things to build back up to
Speaker 1: his return, and you know, his scandal was it was
Speaker 1: more personal and more salacious. But and you know, in
Speaker 1: some ways, Phil's Phil's world has been rocked in the
Speaker 1: same fashion as Tigers and feels like I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: go play a golf tournament, not a big deal. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll put I'll put out one thing on social media,
Speaker 1: and um, I'll be really curious if they if he
Speaker 1: does any Q and A s because he's not. This
Speaker 1: is not the Golf press, this is the Fleet Street headline,
Speaker 1: you know, grabbing rapid dogs of of of the London press.
Speaker 1: Like so, I don't know if Phil wants to step
Speaker 1: into an open mic situation in there or not, but um,
Speaker 1: it would be fascinating. And uh, you know, of course
Speaker 1: he's gonna he's gonna fly from there right in the
Speaker 1: Brooklyn said he wants to play the majors, So that
Speaker 1: means he's gonna be the U s open trying to
Speaker 1: complete this elusive career Grand Slam and all that. So
Speaker 1: like he's gonna have to face the music at some point.
Speaker 1: But how he manages his his time in London what
Speaker 1: will be interesting? So filmmickers and steps Phil Phil Mickelson
Speaker 1: steps up to the microphone in London and you're in
Speaker 1: the room, Michael, what is the what's the back there
Speaker 1: in the back Michael Bamber or what? What? What question
Speaker 1: do you have for film? Mickles Well? Interesting question, Matt.
Speaker 1: You know, how do you see the ring? You had everything?
Speaker 1: Why wasn't it enough? Great question? Alan, Uh yeah, Mr
Speaker 1: ship Knuck wrote three there in the what what what
Speaker 1: would you like to ask ships well, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean exactly. I would say to Phil, you know
Speaker 1: you you took these four months to reflect and to
Speaker 1: become a better man in your own words. You know,
Speaker 1: what did you learn about yourself? And how have you
Speaker 1: made these changes and how have you improved? I'm very
Speaker 1: curious about that. Ryan, would you have a question I knew,
Speaker 1: I knew it the same fucking thing, aboyt the question
Speaker 1: about the design of Augusta After Jeff Jeff Ogilvie. I
Speaker 1: have two of the greatest fucking golf reporters of my time,
Speaker 1: and I have to follow up their fucking questions to
Speaker 1: Phil Michelson, righty, right time, man every time, like just
Speaker 1: oh hey, let's put Ryan in the in the shooting range.
Speaker 1: We'll talk. We'll ask him about uh Augusta's changes. To Joe, Ryan,
Speaker 1: you're and Alan Shipnik about what question I'd ask film
Speaker 1: fucking Michelson because you always have Tory pines and the
Speaker 1: white scoff redo. You could revisit that old work course.
Speaker 1: Ryan's question will be like when you won that Challenge
Speaker 1: Tour event in France, how did that affect your your
Speaker 1: playing status for the following PGA Tour season, Like, alright, Ryan,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you a cheat. How about something related
Speaker 1: to bones, bones versus him? Who's a better caddy? How
Speaker 1: about you got something else? Lets that would be good,
Speaker 1: That would be interesting, That would be interesting. I have
Speaker 1: nothing to ask Phil Michelson, because Michael Beberg and all
Speaker 1: should make just as I would just I would ask,
Speaker 1: I would I would ask. I wouldn't just ask about
Speaker 1: kind of what seemingly has been a dual life? Has it?
Speaker 1: Has it? You know, has it been exhausting to live
Speaker 1: these two lives in which you you're off the course
Speaker 1: doing what you're doing and on the course doing what
Speaker 1: you're doing, and you've you took so much on your shoulders,
Speaker 1: both on and off the course. Are you looking forward to,
Speaker 1: like actually living one life? You know in theory, if
Speaker 1: he's done the work, if he's done the reflect action,
Speaker 1: or if he's getting on board with sort of being
Speaker 1: a better man, I mean, that would be my question.
Speaker 1: That has to be just like what Tiger's life was
Speaker 1: seemingly for so long, that has to be so at
Speaker 1: least John Daily lives one life that's got to be
Speaker 1: exhausting too. But it's it's one life, and it's out
Speaker 1: in front, and it's it's telling you that Dustin Jonathan
Speaker 1: lives one life. Brooks kept your lives one life. Phil
Speaker 1: Nicholson lived two full lives simultaneously. Is he looking forward
Speaker 1: to one life? Yeah? I mean that's a really good point.
Speaker 1: Is there some sort of relief from all of this
Speaker 1: being out and now he can just like, you know,
Speaker 1: be who he who he is. Whether he can do
Speaker 1: that is obviously another question. But well, if you know,
Speaker 1: if you saw that USA Today's story from a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, and the reporter kind of tracked down
Speaker 1: Phil's mom and she said, more or less, he's the
Speaker 1: happiest I've ever seen him. And you know, I think
Speaker 1: I think this artifice has been built up around Phil,
Speaker 1: and I think it was exhausting, and I think this
Speaker 1: set him free in a lot of ways. He doesn't
Speaker 1: have any corporate masters anymore. He doesn't have to live
Speaker 1: up to this impossible image, and he can just play
Speaker 1: golf in cash checks and try and have some fun.
Speaker 1: And I think he feels unburdened, you know, And so
Speaker 1: I think there's something to all that mac in the
Speaker 1: big picture of you know, giving your role in the
Speaker 1: game of golf, and and and different relationships you've had
Speaker 1: with people who are close to fill or not close
Speaker 1: to fil like in the big scheme of things like
Speaker 1: is this is he kind of the very bonds of
Speaker 1: steroids in terms of like he's the guy that is
Speaker 1: going to be the face at forever, for the foreseeable
Speaker 1: future of whatever is this live golf situation? And do
Speaker 1: you think it actually really you know, messes with his legacy? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I can't answer it really. Um. I mean
Speaker 1: a few people I'll talk to you know that most
Speaker 1: people you know are mad that he messed up the
Speaker 1: status quo. You know, they're mad about you know, all
Speaker 1: the things. And then you know the part of him
Speaker 1: being actually human. I think everybody knows it. He may
Speaker 1: not want to admit it, but um does. I think
Speaker 1: it all comes down now to what happens. I mean,
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like the lives going anywhere. The PGA
Speaker 1: tours now got a line drawn into sand. There's gonna
Speaker 1: be a lot of you know, there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: probably a lot of lawyers making a lot of money
Speaker 1: talking about what they can and can't do. Um. So
Speaker 1: I think it'll all it's what transpires in the next
Speaker 1: five years, you know, as a cordon who's who's right? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean obviously, like you guys say, public sentiment, you know,
Speaker 1: can say, well we don't want them doing this, But
Speaker 1: what did the courts really say about these guys? And
Speaker 1: that's a really interesting thing. I mean for me, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be really because I've always been you know, I
Speaker 1: mean you guys, if you've seen the tour persons increased,
Speaker 1: like I've seen him increase with thirty you know, for
Speaker 1: thirty years when I had a guy that he didn't
Speaker 1: make a hundred grand one year and he kept his card.
Speaker 1: He was in um and now you see God make
Speaker 1: seven thousand and he loses his card. I mean he
Speaker 1: gets wealthy. So I mean that's pretty amazing what they did, right, Um,
Speaker 1: But they did they But did they have a blind
Speaker 1: spot to what was out there? Were they play in
Speaker 1: checkers and not chess? And this is we'll all know this,
Speaker 1: I guess through the courts. And I think looking you know,
Speaker 1: our history is the victors always always write history. So
Speaker 1: it'll it'll just come down to I think it'll be revisionists.
Speaker 1: It'll be looking back, people will forget the little things
Speaker 1: and it'll just this is what happened, That the tour
Speaker 1: was the tour right along all along? Or did the
Speaker 1: players have more rights than they were being told? And
Speaker 1: all that right there will come unwound with this, I think, Michael, well,
Speaker 1: this is so low down on the list of things
Speaker 1: that as issues have arisen from this. But I would
Speaker 1: be curious to pull you guys and all off from
Speaker 1: my opinion after you do the fact that Jack Nicholas,
Speaker 1: now I think most people know him. A fan of
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas, I feel like I can see Jack Nicholas
Speaker 1: in a broadway, but let's leave that aside. He represents
Speaker 1: really a direct line, certainly to Hogan and to Jones,
Speaker 1: and you know, the straight line of twentieth century twentieth
Speaker 1: century golf. The fact that Greg Norman, who was a great,
Speaker 1: great player in his own right but nothing on the
Speaker 1: along the order of Jack Nicholas, would call Jack a
Speaker 1: hypocrite is so ungentlemanly and so ungracious, and so outside
Speaker 1: the norm of what golf is supposed to be. And
Speaker 1: I was really struck by that. But I'd like to know,
Speaker 1: you know, you're all opinion how how that strikes you, well,
Speaker 1: the same way that it struck me when Phil Mickelson
Speaker 1: got up and ripped Tom Watson at at the Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup tip. I mean, I just I think ungentlemanly is
Speaker 1: is a good way of saying But I also, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't really have like Greg Norman. Greg Norman, to
Speaker 1: me is has been a cartoon character for so long,
Speaker 1: and I've heard so many things about him. I I
Speaker 1: just I think what you wrote about Jack, and sort
Speaker 1: of at the end of the day, you know, he's
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas. Did I I was a little disturbed by
Speaker 1: his relationship with Donald Trump and what he said, but
Speaker 1: I also knew he wanted the money for a hospital,
Speaker 1: children's hospital, you know, like I almost gave him like passes,
Speaker 1: feeling like, well he's of that generation. It's like I
Speaker 1: just give him. I just he's kind of like the
Speaker 1: way I see some of my uncles, you know, and
Speaker 1: and and my dad for that matter. It's like it's
Speaker 1: just different generations. So if I'm picking between Greg Norman
Speaker 1: and Jack Nicholas, I'm picking Jack Nicholas, you know, every day,
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I think they're
Speaker 1: They're all kind of immersed and engulfed in this whole thing.
Speaker 1: That's that's It's just it's a lot. It's like, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's still a lot of
Speaker 1: garbage in there. It's you know, everyone's blinded by the money.
Speaker 1: But don't forget this is for Norman. This is payback
Speaker 1: that goes back three decades. Yeah, he's been sitting on
Speaker 1: this for a long time now. I mean he got
Speaker 1: he had this idea in the early nineties for this
Speaker 1: global world tour and he got out fox and humiliated
Speaker 1: by Tim Finchon, who stole his idea and created the
Speaker 1: World Golf Championships and created the President's Cup, and Norman
Speaker 1: was left as kind of this out on the outside
Speaker 1: looking in. And so I know that even though Norman's
Speaker 1: taking a lot of straff and all for him, it's
Speaker 1: worth it. It's not just about the money. This is
Speaker 1: this is about redemped It's a redemption story for him.
Speaker 1: And there's an element of that with Phil too. You know,
Speaker 1: they were never buddies, but they're you know, Greg and
Speaker 1: Phil are kind of these kindred spirits and the fact
Speaker 1: that they've come together at this moment to completely blow
Speaker 1: up the professional golf landscape is fascinating, and they're both
Speaker 1: complicated guys, and they have their fans and have their detractors,
Speaker 1: and there's some some energy there there that even the
Speaker 1: way they played the game was the same, you know,
Speaker 1: aggressive to the point of reckless. Like there's just how
Speaker 1: they live their life. And so the fact that it's
Speaker 1: Greg and it it's Phil just add the whole other
Speaker 1: elements of this the story for me. But you're also
Speaker 1: you're also talking about some of the biggest egos I've
Speaker 1: ever met in my life. For sure, some of the
Speaker 1: most successful golfers I've I've ever met. Jack Nicholas is
Speaker 1: one of the biggest egomaniacal people I've ever come in
Speaker 1: contact with. Greg Norman one of the biggest giant egomaniacal
Speaker 1: human beings. Roman Plan asked Andy mill about what he
Speaker 1: did to his friend in getting Chris Everett to be
Speaker 1: his wife. I mean, this guy is your worst nightmare.
Speaker 1: If you're friends with Greg Norman, you don't ever invite
Speaker 1: him over your house. He might steal your wife and
Speaker 1: your daughter. I mean he's a you know, I mean
Speaker 1: Bill Nicholson, eagle maniacal fig Jam Tiger, Woods, Eagle. They
Speaker 1: don't have people who say no to them, and if
Speaker 1: they do, they're out. You're out. Well, I mean it's
Speaker 1: an interesting point. I mean, the the biggest stars of
Speaker 1: the last thirty years, Tiger, Phil, Greg Norman, and all
Speaker 1: of them. Jack Nicholas, Yeah, I mean Jack is you know,
Speaker 1: he's been a force in the game, but just as
Speaker 1: far as contemporary players, like all of them somewhat diminished
Speaker 1: by scandal and controversy, you know, not not Jack so much,
Speaker 1: although this late period, Jack's had his own issues. So um,
Speaker 1: it's it's a fascinating turn of events. Like um, you know,
Speaker 1: the tour wants to sell these guys as perfect gentlemen,
Speaker 1: but they're they're complicated human beings and they do have egos,
Speaker 1: and they do have appetites, and it's lead them astray.
Speaker 1: So it just adds a whole other layer to this,
Speaker 1: the complexity of the situation. Humans have never changed. Those
Speaker 1: are all the same. I mean, that's a good ending point,
Speaker 1: right there, Mac. I mean that that that's that's what
Speaker 1: this comes down to. It's human foibles. It's greed, it's
Speaker 1: desire for power, for revenge, for payback. Because there's plenty
Speaker 1: a good golf out there to play already, like, none
Speaker 1: of this is really about golf, and it's all these
Speaker 1: it's all these other you know, human flaws that have
Speaker 1: created this entire situation. But you know, we're all lawyers.
Speaker 1: Were This is a gift from the content gods or
Speaker 1: for those who write about the game. The fans are
Speaker 1: gonna be watching in some capacity and tuned into this.
Speaker 1: It's gonna it's just gonna be the story of the summer.
Speaker 1: So it will be interesting to see if the organization's
Speaker 1: behave as though the golfers would own a golf course.
Speaker 1: In other words, will they keep you know, will they
Speaker 1: have the same you know what you know, how you
Speaker 1: treat each other on the golf course and the things
Speaker 1: that you do. Are they going to be that good?
Speaker 1: I mean, will they take the values of the game
Speaker 1: on the course to this? I don't call it a
Speaker 1: fight to this, but this, I mean Jay Monahan threatening
Speaker 1: a lifetime band to anyone who goes and plays a
Speaker 1: golf tournament. That's hardball. I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's the gentleman. You know, he's he's he sees this
Speaker 1: as as a real essential threat to this revival of
Speaker 1: the PGA tourn He's probably right. So they they they
Speaker 1: they told us to cease and desist at the Wishbone Brawl,
Speaker 1: a tournament with with with Persimmon Woods talk about an
Speaker 1: exhibition at goat Hill Park to raise money for kids.
Speaker 1: You think the PGA Tours they're not gonna they're not
Speaker 1: gonna play nice. They didn't play nice with the Wishbone. Bro,
Speaker 1: what do you think they're gonna do with the Live Tour.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, these guys, the PGA Tour is
Speaker 1: not exactly you know, gentlemanly in any way shape reform,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean I've heard from a player that,
Speaker 1: you know, he was called into an office Jay's office
Speaker 1: and threatened pretty extensively about you know, if he went there,
Speaker 1: it was going to be it was, that was going
Speaker 1: to be it. So this is not this is not
Speaker 1: friendly friendly fire here. No, all right, guys, Well, we
Speaker 1: couldn't do this without the support of our sponsors. Uh.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, I appreciate this opportunity to
Speaker 1: get in a room full of smart people and have
Speaker 1: smart conversation about a very complex issue as it relates
Speaker 1: to a game that we all love. I mean, the
Speaker 1: common denominator is that we do love this game. We
Speaker 1: do love I love so many different aspects of this game.
Speaker 1: And the professional game has been a it's been a mixed,
Speaker 1: I love hate relationship in a lot of ways the
Speaker 1: last few years, as you know, you know, embarking on
Speaker 1: this modern media company and bumping up into bumping up
Speaker 1: next to or into the rights and control of the
Speaker 1: p G A Tour. So the idea that we're trying
Speaker 1: to go this alone without getting the sort of entanglement
Speaker 1: of some of the other legacy media as it's tied
Speaker 1: to the tour and and feeling at one point, oh,
Speaker 1: Phil Mickelson, you know, had some had some points to
Speaker 1: be made, and it kind of lost its way with
Speaker 1: how he made him and what you know what format
Speaker 1: and and platform. It's ah, there is there is, there
Speaker 1: is something to be said for I hope that the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour loses some of its control over what's happening
Speaker 1: to its players, to its tournament, to its media partners,
Speaker 1: to its brand partners, because right now feels like they're undefeated.
Speaker 1: They can do whatever they want, how they want to
Speaker 1: do it, when they want to do it, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem right. It does seem like state run media
Speaker 1: and it and it's uh, it's nice to be able
Speaker 1: to have these conversations working for the Firepit Collective and
Speaker 1: not feel like I'm going to get a call from
Speaker 1: my boss and say, what in the hell did you
Speaker 1: just do? Yeah, Mr Nicholas say you go monacle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it is. I mean, yeah, well that's what
Speaker 1: all said, Matt. I mean, everything's changing, everything's up for grabs.
Speaker 1: It's a wild time to be in the golf media.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna we can see how this plays out.
Speaker 1: And do you all think the Golf Channel is gonna
Speaker 1: do you think the Golf Channel will cover the live
Speaker 1: of it? I think I don't think they'll probably cover
Speaker 1: it on they save Golf Central. I mean they they
Speaker 1: can't ignore it completely, as you know, as a news event,
Speaker 1: but I don't think they're gonna want to give it
Speaker 1: anymore than the bare minimum. It's gonna be one of
Speaker 1: those things that I'm very curious to find out. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is that's what I mean, what we're about to
Speaker 1: see for the next six months is uh, this is
Speaker 1: modern media with you know, big money, endless money. Four
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars. They could do whatever they want. What
Speaker 1: what I want to do is go get dinner, So
Speaker 1: I think we should end this podcast. I'm curerally eating
Speaker 1: crackers from a gas station, so I would also like
Speaker 1: to go get dinner. But thanks to everyone who's has
Speaker 1: made it to this finish line. It's it's complex, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna be covering it. My plan is to fly
Speaker 1: over to London on Thursday night and cover this tournament
Speaker 1: from from the outside of the ropes if I have to. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been looking at flights. I would have got to
Speaker 1: go sooner, but my daughter's high school graduation part he's
Speaker 1: on Thursday afternoon. Until I can, I can catch the
Speaker 1: last flight of San Francisco. I'll be I'll be on
Speaker 1: the ground at Centurion by end to play on Friday,
Speaker 1: and I'll blow it out on Saturday and Sunday too,
Speaker 1: So in disguise or as Alan Shimnick, maybe I'll shave
Speaker 1: my beer. No, I'll recognize me. Go as Monday Que
Speaker 1: if you're gonna take over the Monday Q Info Twitter
Speaker 1: and Michael Michael some final thoughts. Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: think I'm really taken by that hypocrite come by Norman
Speaker 1: because it shows such a lack of gratitude to the
Speaker 1: preceding generation. And this overall thing is all about a
Speaker 1: lack of gratitude, you know, not being happy with what
Speaker 1: you have. Thatt, what you said about the modern PG
Speaker 1: tour was perfect. It was word for word perfect. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is a very arrogant organization with a lot of problems.
Speaker 1: And this is gonna this is going to reveal a
Speaker 1: lot of them. But the when and when Matt talks
Speaker 1: about human nature, I mean, I agreat human nature fundamentally
Speaker 1: does not change. But there should be a value system
Speaker 1: in place that honors where you can, honor how you
Speaker 1: got to where you are in your life. And the
Speaker 1: lack of that is disturbing as hell to see and disappointing.
Speaker 1: And then just one final thought. You know, when we
Speaker 1: talk about you know, Norman getting his redemption and Philip
Speaker 1: Bichelson getting the redemption, their redemption if it is even
Speaker 1: that is bought and paid for by the Saudies, by billions,
Speaker 1: and the Saudis will stop at nothing to win this thing.
Speaker 1: So when we talk about six months or five years,
Speaker 1: that's the tip of the iceberg. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: about a hundred year view here to use golf, this crazy,
Speaker 1: ridiculous Shepherd's game that nobody in the right mind wouldn't
Speaker 1: vent today because it's way too difficult in time consuming
Speaker 1: to use that to recreate the image of their society
Speaker 1: without actually changing their society. Yeah. I don't think we
Speaker 1: said redemption. It's more like revenge, that's what That's what
Speaker 1: Norman is looking for and maybe fill at this point,
Speaker 1: but Jake said that we need to cover part part
Speaker 1: points man, so well, No, I mean, I think we
Speaker 1: got We're we're adding sponsors obviously, Ryan French, you're the
Speaker 1: host of The Grind, and we've got a great docuseries
Speaker 1: coming out, and Alan and Michael. You're gonna be doing
Speaker 1: a podcast called Nia Fourth with Jeff Ogilvie, which we've
Speaker 1: already taped a pilot episode of and we'll be coming
Speaker 1: out this fall, which I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: You guys are regular appear regularly on The Fire Drill
Speaker 1: obviously the Weeks and the Majors, and coming up out
Speaker 1: of Boston the US Open, the three of you, Ryan, Michael,
Speaker 1: Alan and Jeff Ogilvie will be appearing frequently throughout that week, Mac,
Speaker 1: you are gonna be with Colton El and Michael Sims
Speaker 1: hosting the Real Game Podcast, which I'm really looking forward
Speaker 1: to as you continue to give us your insights and
Speaker 1: perspective on the Real Game as it relates to a
Speaker 1: business perspective, avoiding the pitfalls of trying to go pro.
Speaker 1: What happens when you do go pro and you get
Speaker 1: these equipment companies wanting to change the gear that you're
Speaker 1: played for your whole life. I'm really looking forward to
Speaker 1: all of that. Um, all of this is is being
Speaker 1: brought to us by a whole bunch of sponsors and
Speaker 1: supporters of what we're doing at the Firepit. Collective. Part
Speaker 1: Points is obviously one of them. It's a new revolutionary
Speaker 1: app that kind of changes the way we score the game,
Speaker 1: especially great for families, people going out with kids. Wherever
Speaker 1: you tee off from you can actually win that amount
Speaker 1: of points. If you make par from fifty yards you
Speaker 1: get fifty points. Hundred yards you get a hundred points.
Speaker 1: If you want to go all the way back to
Speaker 1: four hundred yards and make part you'll get four hundred points.
Speaker 1: Bertie double it. It's a really cool thing and uh,
Speaker 1: I suggest you download and try it out. We also
Speaker 1: have Dynamic Brands and bag Boy who are big supporters
Speaker 1: of Firepit Collective. I think it's the best push card
Speaker 1: out there. I use it when I use a push cart.
Speaker 1: I suggest you do too. And then Dormy Workshop is
Speaker 1: a new relationship we have. They've just uh done some
Speaker 1: incredible Firepit Collective merchandise that we're dropping uh this week
Speaker 1: and next head covers, uh, goodie bags, all kinds of
Speaker 1: stuff that they've made for us, handcrafted. These guys are
Speaker 1: based out of Canada, have known the Bishops for a
Speaker 1: long time and now they're making products for the fire
Speaker 1: Pick Collective. Very excited to showcase all of that. So, um,
Speaker 1: those are our sponsors and partners boys. Anything to add, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: independent journalism needs to be supported. So we were appreciative
Speaker 1: for all them. And I'm just trying to side between
Speaker 1: Italian and Mexican for dinner, but I'll take that offline.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad we did this. We're gonna do it again.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be a talking point throughout US Open
Speaker 1: Week when Phil probably makes his return to the state side.
Speaker 1: And um, this is just just gonna keep going so
Speaker 1: that's not the end of the conversation. This is really
Speaker 1: the beginning. So thanks for everyone who tuned in and
Speaker 1: and to be continued and all safe travels. Safe travels,
Speaker 1: my friend was you had to live alright here, guys
Speaker 1: put another log on the fire and we here is
Speaker 1: get the time.