Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric and this is Next Question.
Speaker 1: While the podcast takes a hiatus to prepare for our
Speaker 1: next big season, I wanted to share something special, a
Speaker 1: preview episode of a new upcoming podcast hosted by none
Speaker 1: other than the nation's doctor, Surgeon General, Dr Vivek Murphy.
Speaker 1: I first have the opportunity to speak to Dr Murphy
Speaker 1: in April of as he was launching his book Together,
Speaker 1: The Healing Power of Human Connection in a Sometimes Lonely World.
Speaker 1: Who knew it would resonate so much as the world
Speaker 1: locked down and social distancing measures were implemented. I talked
Speaker 1: with him about loneliness as a public health issue, including
Speaker 1: his own story about the mental and emotional impact isolation
Speaker 1: can have. Today, Dr Murphy is giving our Next Question
Speaker 1: listeners a preview of his new podcast called House Calls
Speaker 1: with Dr of Ache Murphy. So enjoy. Thank you so much, Katie.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be here with all of you
Speaker 1: taking over Next Question. My name is Vivek Morty. I'm
Speaker 1: a doctor and serve as a current Surgeon General of
Speaker 1: the United States. Katie and her team have been kind
Speaker 1: enough to allow me to share the conversation I had
Speaker 1: with Padma Lakshmi on how we are looking at building
Speaker 1: more connection in two Padma and I met in two
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen when I first served as US Surgeon General
Speaker 1: during the Obama administration, I had the privilege of accompanying
Speaker 1: her to film an episode of her hit Bravo cooking
Speaker 1: show Top Chef. She since added producer and host of
Speaker 1: Taste the Nation to her resume, and she has authored
Speaker 1: multiple cookbooks, a memoir, and a children's book, which is,
Speaker 1: by the way, something I dream of doing myself. Padma,
Speaker 1: I'll trying to get my wife on board with the
Speaker 1: idea of co authoring a children's books, so we'll see.
Speaker 1: So I'm so glad Padma, that we're having this conversation today.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you are our surgeon general again. Well,
Speaker 1: that's very kind of you. I certainly feel honored to
Speaker 1: serve at a time like this, especially with the pandemic
Speaker 1: that we're going through. And speaking of the pandemic, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to ask you how you were doing. It's
Speaker 1: been almost two years that we have been in this pandemic.
Speaker 1: How have you been throughout this last almost twenty four months. Well,
Speaker 1: the headline, the biggest headline, is that I'm very grateful.
Speaker 1: You know, I did have a couple of distant aunts
Speaker 1: who got ill and passed away, who weren't old enough
Speaker 1: in my opinion, to pass away. But for the most part,
Speaker 1: other than that, most of the people around me were healthy.
Speaker 1: I made healthy my own immediate family. We are all good.
Speaker 1: Nobody got sick, we were vaccinated in a timely fashion.
Speaker 1: I was just boostered a few weeks ago. UM. My
Speaker 1: daughter is now of age and she's also been double backs.
Speaker 1: So in large strokes, no complaints, just a lot of gratitude.
Speaker 1: But even if you didn't suffer job loss or the
Speaker 1: loss of the loved one, I think we've all gone
Speaker 1: through something quite profound UM, something together with the rest
Speaker 1: of the planet and specifically of course our country UM
Speaker 1: that has manifested in different ways for different people, and
Speaker 1: for me, I think it's UM. I caused just a
Speaker 1: lot of emotional fatigue and mental fatigue. I think I'm
Speaker 1: doing better now than I was a year ago. But
Speaker 1: I do think that I don't have the stamina or patients,
Speaker 1: the mental stamina or patients to deal with all of
Speaker 1: the extracurricular activities that I'm blessed enough to be invited
Speaker 1: to or asked to participate in by virtue of uh,
Speaker 1: just my work or you know, being in the public
Speaker 1: guy for so long. And I don't mind that, actually,
Speaker 1: but I do think that, you know, while a lot
Speaker 1: of us were still UM in a sort of stasis
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, for many many months,
Speaker 1: it was certainly not RESTful. It was filled with anxiety.
Speaker 1: And I think collectively we still have to deal with
Speaker 1: that mental duress and that anxiety and all of the
Speaker 1: attendant and additional things that many of us have faced,
Speaker 1: like you know, a career change, office at home, loss
Speaker 1: of a loved one, homeschooling. How do we get our
Speaker 1: kids back on track? Um, you know, it's been two
Speaker 1: years and so that is a very long time in
Speaker 1: the development of a child. And so not only how
Speaker 1: do we get them back to their quote uncort normal cells,
Speaker 1: but how do we make up for lost time or
Speaker 1: how do we address some of the issues that have
Speaker 1: come up because of COVID for them? Because I do
Speaker 1: think um our children have suffered in a way that
Speaker 1: is very different from from us, you know, as adults
Speaker 1: you can sort of parse out. Okay, this is one
Speaker 1: year of my life, two years of my life. But
Speaker 1: when you're nine or ten years old, my daughter is
Speaker 1: almost twelve, you know, eighteen months is a heck of
Speaker 1: a long time in the first fife and and and
Speaker 1: it becomes hard to put it in perspective. It's made
Speaker 1: me in tall and COVID has made me intolerant of
Speaker 1: a lot of things, like I don't hit chat, a
Speaker 1: cocktail partist, not good at those that you are, Um,
Speaker 1: just getting dressed up and and and being more social.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I do consider myself a very social person,
Speaker 1: but my circle has gotten smaller. Um the you know,
Speaker 1: all of those, all of the things that I do
Speaker 1: have gotten very focused. I think that's good. I think
Speaker 1: there's some good that can come of that. Okay, that's
Speaker 1: such an interesting point you mentioned. But about I mean,
Speaker 1: it's ways. It sounds like you're talking about a reevaluation
Speaker 1: of your social life and your social engagement that's taken place,
Speaker 1: some of it perhaps unconscious, some of it intentional, but
Speaker 1: all precipitated in a sense by this pandemic. A number
Speaker 1: of people, either consciously or even just you know, unintentionally
Speaker 1: are finding themselves going through a reckoning with their relationships,
Speaker 1: with their connection with one another, whether it's with family
Speaker 1: or with friends. And it's a really interesting time, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm thinking about the book Tomatoes for Nila, that
Speaker 1: you wrote, children's book about connecting with family through food
Speaker 1: and cooking, and so much of your work, whether it's
Speaker 1: the book or whether it's you know, Taste the Nation,
Speaker 1: have been about finding ways for people to connect through food.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious as you reflect on those experiences, particularly
Speaker 1: Taste the Nation and just the beautiful stories that you've
Speaker 1: been weaving together of different food traditions and how they
Speaker 1: bring us together. What have you learned about how we
Speaker 1: connect and if we want to rebuild connection sort of
Speaker 1: in our life going forward. Connections are truly matter, high
Speaker 1: quality connections in our life. Like what lessons do you
Speaker 1: think COVID has to teach us? It's interesting, you know,
Speaker 1: You're right. I just got through saying that I have
Speaker 1: whittled down my relationships and and you know, focused on
Speaker 1: the ones that really matter. And you know, I am
Speaker 1: very lucky and that the first season of Tasting Nation
Speaker 1: was very well received both by critics and just by
Speaker 1: the TV viewing public, and because the show really relies
Speaker 1: on intimacy and connection. That's the basis. You know, there's
Speaker 1: no vals and whistles to it. They're not you know,
Speaker 1: sweeping cinematic shots. We don't, you know, it's it's really
Speaker 1: relies on that. You know. We couldn't film season two
Speaker 1: as soon as I'd like it, to know, as soon
Speaker 1: as I'd like it to have done it. And but
Speaker 1: I was anxious to get back to work because I
Speaker 1: didn't want the trail to go cold, and so we're
Speaker 1: only able to do four episode safely due to COVID
Speaker 1: and I as much as I was reluctant to rekindle
Speaker 1: relationships that I didn't think we're essential, I was so
Speaker 1: intent on getting back to work. Um. So I think
Speaker 1: that we do want connections, we just want meaningful connections.
Speaker 1: I think that is the difference. I think we're realizing
Speaker 1: that our time, our tension, our efforts are very precious, right,
Speaker 1: That's what we've all learned, and so we want to
Speaker 1: spend them wisely on things and people who really matter
Speaker 1: to us. And you know, other than my child, there's
Speaker 1: nothing that matters to me more than Taste the Nation.
Speaker 1: It took me a long time to get it off
Speaker 1: the ground. And I will tell you the reason I
Speaker 1: think that Taste the Nation has resonated not only with
Speaker 1: our viewers but with me so personally, is because I
Speaker 1: have been able through that show to make really deep connections.
Speaker 1: I stay in touch with most of the participants of
Speaker 1: our show. I check in with them just to see
Speaker 1: how they are doing. I usually go and in bed
Speaker 1: myself in a community for about a week, um, and
Speaker 1: you know, meet different people from that community, and I
Speaker 1: will say that I think we're longing to understand each
Speaker 1: other better and to really have deeper, meaningful connections. And
Speaker 1: I do think that our country in the last five
Speaker 1: years has become so outrageously polarized in a way and
Speaker 1: that none of us thought possible in such a short
Speaker 1: span of time. And so I think, for for me,
Speaker 1: it's important to understand your fellow American or your fellow
Speaker 1: human being, even internationally. And it's important too to make
Speaker 1: sure that when you when you are making these connections,
Speaker 1: that you're really being affected by that person, that you're
Speaker 1: being changed in some way. UM. And I think people
Speaker 1: want that, you know. I think that's why the show
Speaker 1: had residents with viewers. But I also think, if we're
Speaker 1: going to go out into the big world and you know,
Speaker 1: leave our kids at home with a babysitter, or you know,
Speaker 1: make an effort and take a risk, you know, by
Speaker 1: getting on a subway or even going to a gathering,
Speaker 1: we wanted to be a substantive conversation. We wanted to
Speaker 1: be something that is just deeper than getting together and
Speaker 1: making that small talk. Gosh, there's so much you said
Speaker 1: there which was very powerful that I'm particularly picking up
Speaker 1: on this threat around polarization that you mentioned, Padma, and
Speaker 1: I think that you're not alone in feeling the weight
Speaker 1: of that polarization right now. I've had so many conversations
Speaker 1: with people across the country in the last not just
Speaker 1: in the last year, but even when I was search
Speaker 1: in general during the Obama administration, where people felt that
Speaker 1: there was just so much polarization in our country, and
Speaker 1: and that makes everything difficult, right, It makes it hard
Speaker 1: for us to come together and take on big challenges,
Speaker 1: whether that's climate change, whether it's racial inequality, whether it's
Speaker 1: something like a pandemic um But the question is, how
Speaker 1: how do we build those bonds of connection, and it's
Speaker 1: it strikes me either a word do you use or
Speaker 1: a phrase which is knowing each other? Right to connect
Speaker 1: with one another? We need to come to know each
Speaker 1: other and how do we create those experiences? Because I
Speaker 1: think that would make it far less polarized the environment
Speaker 1: that we're living in and give us the kind of
Speaker 1: unity that we need to take on big challenges and
Speaker 1: to add joy to our day to day life. What
Speaker 1: I think would be great is for every citizen to
Speaker 1: be required to do a month or six months work
Speaker 1: um stint in community service. I really think that, Like
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of countries have mandatory military service,
Speaker 1: um I think we should do that. I think everybody,
Speaker 1: regardless of whether you are you know, somebody at the
Speaker 1: top of our economic echelonce or somebody who's just at
Speaker 1: the bottom or starting out or in between, should have
Speaker 1: to do some kind of municipal volunteer work for a
Speaker 1: period of time. I think that it gives you, um
Speaker 1: more of an understanding of what it's like. You know,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of my friends who are obviously chefs.
Speaker 1: They they say everybody should work in the restaurant, in business. Everybody,
Speaker 1: you know, Danny Meyer says, I think everybody should be uh,
Speaker 1: you know, have a job as a waite staff member
Speaker 1: for just because it does teach you humility, and um,
Speaker 1: I think humility is really important. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: anybody who's interesting in going to med school should have
Speaker 1: to volunteer in your office for X amount of time
Speaker 1: just to shadow people that are working in your department
Speaker 1: to learn what that means, you know. I think even
Speaker 1: if you want to be an actor, I think you
Speaker 1: should have to sweep the stage floor for a month
Speaker 1: and see what that feels like, so that you know,
Speaker 1: if you do get the privilege of being an actor
Speaker 1: on a stage or in a movie, that you have
Speaker 1: respect for your crew members who are cleaning up after you. Um.
Speaker 1: I think part of that also is because in America
Speaker 1: we are such a me focused culture. You know, the
Speaker 1: individual rights of a person who are very much respected, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So that has worked for us for a long time
Speaker 1: in a capitalistic society, but we've often lost sight of
Speaker 1: the we of it all in our society. And what
Speaker 1: we've seen with COVID is that regardless of how much
Speaker 1: you want to insulate yourself, we are still connected. Is
Speaker 1: that enough that my child is vaccinated, all of her
Speaker 1: classmates need to be vaccinated, and all of her peers
Speaker 1: um in Brazil or China or you know, Sub Saharan
Speaker 1: Africa and need to also be vaccinated because she's sharing
Speaker 1: the world with that, and so we you know, that's
Speaker 1: one thing COVID has taught us is that everybody needs
Speaker 1: to be vaccinated. Everybody needs an equal opportunity to have
Speaker 1: a health filled life and access to medicine and nutrition
Speaker 1: and and um, all of these things and and and
Speaker 1: you know, we cannot live in silos. And I think
Speaker 1: doing that kind of thing, having to be in service
Speaker 1: and having to experience feeling no better or no worse
Speaker 1: than anybody else. You know, we all had to we
Speaker 1: all had to stand in line at the d m V, right,
Speaker 1: we all had to go through. Drivers said, I think
Speaker 1: there's there's something too we all have to just like
Speaker 1: we all eventually have to go to jury duty. I
Speaker 1: think we should all have to do some kind of
Speaker 1: community service. It can be you know, even cleaning up
Speaker 1: the park, it can be whatever. I think that would
Speaker 1: bring us closer to our connected us in some way.
Speaker 1: You're listening to next question with Katie Couric and we're
Speaker 1: sharing a preview episode of House Calls with Dr Murphy.
Speaker 1: We'll be back right after this. Welcome back once again.
Speaker 1: Here's Surgeon General Dr Vivek Murphy speaking with food writer,
Speaker 1: producer and activists Padma lash Me. I was wondering, given
Speaker 1: all of your experience in the food industry, can you
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit of just about what you're
Speaker 1: seeing in restaurants, Like what are you seeing on the
Speaker 1: front lines in terms of the mental health and the
Speaker 1: well economic well being of workers. We're going through a
Speaker 1: revolutionary change, not only in our economic system and society,
Speaker 1: but specifically in the restaurant business. Labor is very hard
Speaker 1: to find, and I understand, you know, you get treated
Speaker 1: so badly as a waiter or waitress. It's it's really
Speaker 1: crazy how demanding people are and how they just somehow,
Speaker 1: very mild mannered, nice people somehow just lose their humanity
Speaker 1: when their steak isn't done exactly right, or you know,
Speaker 1: they're they're waiting a little too long for their next drink.
Speaker 1: And what's happening is that a lot of weight staff
Speaker 1: don't want to come back to work, and so there
Speaker 1: are many establishments that are short on help, and I
Speaker 1: know that. Um, you know, I have a friend of
Speaker 1: mine who owns a little bit of restaurant here in
Speaker 1: the East Village and just heard her husband who run
Speaker 1: it with you know, a few members of their staff,
Speaker 1: and you know, she sent out a message on her
Speaker 1: Instagram account saying, Hi, we're gonna be closed tomorrow, and
Speaker 1: there's I wish I could tell you we're having a
Speaker 1: special event. We just all need some rest, so we're
Speaker 1: gonna say day off. I need to have my staff rest.
Speaker 1: They deserve it. So please don't come tomorrow, but please
Speaker 1: do remember us the day after and the day after
Speaker 1: that and so forth. It's really hard to find help.
Speaker 1: By the way, I've never had a restaurant, so I'm
Speaker 1: giving you all the information that was given to meet
Speaker 1: by others. Just want to say that on the record,
Speaker 1: But people just don't understand how low the margins are
Speaker 1: in the restaurant business, and also because of pandemic all
Speaker 1: in the perishable foods that you buy in preparation to
Speaker 1: be ready to make any of the items on the
Speaker 1: menu that you see go back. You know, it's not
Speaker 1: like there's there, you know, if it's a good restaurant.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's canned. You know, you can preaze
Speaker 1: meet but some of it and then you have labor costs, right,
Speaker 1: you have fixed costs, and then um, the margins are
Speaker 1: really really low and the rents are really really hot.
Speaker 1: So um, you know, I know that in the last
Speaker 1: twenty years, chefs themselves have become you know, celebrities or know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of rock star mythology. But the truth is that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's very few restaurants that actually do well
Speaker 1: and and make their chefs rich. You know, if they're
Speaker 1: if they're doing well, it's because they've got you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of private events that they're doing, or they're
Speaker 1: writing books, or they're appearing on shows like mine and
Speaker 1: things like that. It's not glamorous, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: really hard work. And let's face it, working in the
Speaker 1: restaurant business is manual labor. Now, it's very creative, it
Speaker 1: has to do with science and business and all this stuff,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, you're on your
Speaker 1: feet for eighteen hours a day and your hours are
Speaker 1: terrible there where everyone else is congregating during lunch and dinner.
Speaker 1: So it's it becomes really hard to have a personal life.
Speaker 1: It becomes difficult to have a family, especially if you
Speaker 1: if you're the one carrying the baby, which is why
Speaker 1: it's such a male dominated industry. It's probably you know,
Speaker 1: second only to the military, Harry in that aspect in
Speaker 1: our culture. Um, it's it's really hard. I think also Americans,
Speaker 1: just like they expect, you know, to have all the
Speaker 1: freedoms they want and think about me, me, me, not us,
Speaker 1: they also expect really large portions for really low prices,
Speaker 1: and we are not paying what we should be for
Speaker 1: milk and cheese because or vegetables because somebody had to
Speaker 1: go out at four dollars an hour and without health
Speaker 1: insurance and pick that fruit and box it up and
Speaker 1: harry that heavy fruit crate on their shoulders, you know,
Speaker 1: with a band. I mean the stuff weighs like fifty pounds,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was very, very hard. I think
Speaker 1: the separation between owners and laborers has just gotten too great,
Speaker 1: and I think something's got to give, and that's what's
Speaker 1: happening now because it just becomes not worth working. Gosh,
Speaker 1: mean those are that's heartbreaking to hear. And I think
Speaker 1: you're you're right, there's an economic cost, there's a human cost,
Speaker 1: and and it's I think it's very clear that for
Speaker 1: frontline workers in particular, that the toll of this pandemic
Speaker 1: on their mental health has been really quite striking. I
Speaker 1: know you've spoken about mental health before at the beginning
Speaker 1: of this year, about some of your own challenges. I've
Speaker 1: certainly done that as well. Um, But I think we're
Speaker 1: both keenly aware of the fact that in our country
Speaker 1: and cultures around the world, there's so tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: stigma around mental health, and it's not easy for people
Speaker 1: to speak up to ask for help without feeling like
Speaker 1: somehow they're broken or they're at fault. I'm curious about
Speaker 1: how you see this changing this stigma around mental health.
Speaker 1: Like I think we both want a world in which
Speaker 1: our kids can talk about these issues more freely, where
Speaker 1: they can get help if they need it. Um, But
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think will help change that stigma.
Speaker 1: I think that the pandemic has brought a lot of
Speaker 1: issues to the for that we're always there regarding mental health,
Speaker 1: that it's just intensified and brought it up to the
Speaker 1: service in such an acute way. And and that's because
Speaker 1: we've been again under such to rest. But that's you know,
Speaker 1: everything has a benefit if you look at it the
Speaker 1: right way. Somebody, once very smart said that to me,
Speaker 1: and I've never forgotten it, especially at times when I've
Speaker 1: been deeply challenged. And I was very challenged last year.
Speaker 1: I just felt really spent, and I talked about it.
Speaker 1: I felt I felt badly for my own issues, but
Speaker 1: I felt even worse that my daughter went through a
Speaker 1: lot because she's an only child, and you know, like
Speaker 1: millions of children across this country, she felt isolated from
Speaker 1: her peers. You know, she didn't have siblings, and we
Speaker 1: really sheltered in place, uh, in a very remote area,
Speaker 1: you know, out in Long Island, and that was very
Speaker 1: hard for her. And so I think just talking about
Speaker 1: it and making it okay and um not seeing it
Speaker 1: as a sign of weakness, you know. I think that's
Speaker 1: the thing. If you admit to having mental health issues,
Speaker 1: you're afraid that you're going to get some help penalized
Speaker 1: for it, either by your peers or by your colleagues,
Speaker 1: your family, or your you know, especially by your employer.
Speaker 1: We have to talk about it with children, you know.
Speaker 1: I think we have to talk about it in health class.
Speaker 1: I think that's when you talk about it. You start
Speaker 1: young and you just stigmatize it and you say it's
Speaker 1: okay to ask for help. Asking for help is actually
Speaker 1: um and a strong action, you know, it's a sign
Speaker 1: of strength. I think it requires just shift in focus
Speaker 1: and how we look at it, and also in supporting
Speaker 1: each other. Um. I think that we need to at
Speaker 1: a very microlocal level reach out to our our circles.
Speaker 1: Are friends, are neighbor is, having those open channels. I
Speaker 1: mean when I heard somebody tell me that they started
Speaker 1: every meeting and it was a corporation. It was not
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't a friend circle or anything where
Speaker 1: they said how are you feeling? You know, and and
Speaker 1: these were like, uh, you know, all hands meetings, like
Speaker 1: you know, every Friday or every Monday, and that they
Speaker 1: always started I'm feeling like this, how are you feeling?
Speaker 1: And it was just an open forum for about the
Speaker 1: first fifteen twenty minutes for everybody to talk about just
Speaker 1: how they were feeling. I'm feeling pressured because my daughter
Speaker 1: is getting married and I don't know how I'm going
Speaker 1: to do all this. I'm feeling pressured because my son
Speaker 1: is going to college, and I really want him to
Speaker 1: get into a good college, but I also want him
Speaker 1: to be in a college where he's happy. You know,
Speaker 1: studies have shown that the more vulnerable you are, UM,
Speaker 1: the more empathy that you elicit in others, and hopefully,
Speaker 1: by eliciting empathy in others, UM, they all be not
Speaker 1: only empathic, but be encouraged to talk about their own issues,
Speaker 1: and you can return the favor as well. I think
Speaker 1: I think that's really important. You know. Another side effect
Speaker 1: of being polarized in our country is of not listening
Speaker 1: to each other. And I think we really really need
Speaker 1: to listen to each other, and that's not happening UM
Speaker 1: often enough. Yeah, I know you're you're right and that
Speaker 1: I want to just pick up on that what you
Speaker 1: just said at the end there about listening, because listening
Speaker 1: is not only powerful, as you are saying, for helping
Speaker 1: us understand and connect with each other, but for people
Speaker 1: who are struggling in a moment, maybe they're feeling fatigue,
Speaker 1: maybe they're feeling like they don't belong, maybe they're feeling
Speaker 1: anxious or worried. Uh, just being able to have somebody
Speaker 1: who is willing to listen can be incredibly healing. And
Speaker 1: this is I think a part which uh sometimes people
Speaker 1: underestimate because we think someone's having metal health struggles they
Speaker 1: need to see somebody who's a licensed self professional. But
Speaker 1: it turns out that simply it is our ability to
Speaker 1: show up and listen to someone, to be fully present
Speaker 1: for them, um, to listen without judgment, um, but to
Speaker 1: create a safe space for them. That in and of
Speaker 1: itself is incredibly healing. And when people are able to
Speaker 1: just express um what they are feeling, that's half of
Speaker 1: the challenge. You don't have to fix your friends problem,
Speaker 1: you know, all the time, your family member's problem, if
Speaker 1: they're they come to with their struggles, but knowing making
Speaker 1: it clear to them that they're You're somebody they can
Speaker 1: talk to and talk to when they're when they're struggling
Speaker 1: and when they're having you know, wonderful time, but at
Speaker 1: all times that itself is is so healing. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back the subject about connection. I find just so
Speaker 1: important because I think it's how we're wired. But I
Speaker 1: think you know, as human beings that we were. You know,
Speaker 1: we may not all be introverts or extroverts, but we're
Speaker 1: all meant to have some degree of human connection in
Speaker 1: our life, but a lot of that connection starts uh
Speaker 1: and is grounded in our connection to ourselves, you know,
Speaker 1: which I think of as how comfortable are we in
Speaker 1: our own skin? Like do we feel good about who
Speaker 1: we are? And this is something it doesn't come easy
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. I can say that I've
Speaker 1: certainly someone who certainly struggled a lot during my life
Speaker 1: to be comfortable in my own skin, to feel good
Speaker 1: about who I am. And that was especially true when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. I know that for you that
Speaker 1: there was a time in high school where you consider
Speaker 1: changing your name and when you experience yeah, I change
Speaker 1: it for for all of high school and mortified. But
Speaker 1: now but I did. Yeah, it's okay, no, And look,
Speaker 1: I know that you were you know, you were bullied.
Speaker 1: I went through a fair amount of years there where
Speaker 1: I was bullied, also when I was in middle school
Speaker 1: and elementary school. And those things to leave a mark
Speaker 1: on you, Gosh, they really do. And I'm still thinking
Speaker 1: about that today. And I'll tell you remember, in particular,
Speaker 1: one of the worst things that that happened to me
Speaker 1: as a kid was when the movie Indiana Jones came
Speaker 1: out because that movie you too, Oh my god, it's
Speaker 1: portrayal of India was just it was really quite terrible.
Speaker 1: And I had all of these kids in school for
Speaker 1: like years afterward thought that my family ate monkey brains
Speaker 1: and that we ate insects and all these things. And
Speaker 1: I was like, that's it's fine if someone does that,
Speaker 1: but that's not not what we do. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's sort of a constant source of like ridicule and critique. Um.
Speaker 1: But with all that just said, like, you know, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are struggling, kids and
Speaker 1: adults to get comfortable in their own skin. And I'm curious,
Speaker 1: like in your life, both in childhood when you were
Speaker 1: being bullied and then afterward as you sought to find
Speaker 1: your identity, what helped you persevere and what helped you
Speaker 1: find an identity that you were comfortable with. I mean,
Speaker 1: and I'm cognizant the fact that you named your daughter Krishna, right,
Speaker 1: so you gave her a traditional name as well, which
Speaker 1: meant that you felt comfortable embracing that part of your identity.
Speaker 1: But I'm curious what helped you during those times of struggle.
Speaker 1: Interesting that you bring up Chrishna's name because she's actually
Speaker 1: named after my grandfather, Christian Worthy. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: I knew that whatever gender my child was, whenever I
Speaker 1: had my child, I wanted to name that child after
Speaker 1: him because he was a huge influence in my life.
Speaker 1: Both my grandmother and my grandfather, my paternal grandparents were
Speaker 1: like second parents to me. And he gave me a
Speaker 1: love of books, and she gave me a love of cooking.
Speaker 1: So it's no accident that I do what I do. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, he very clearly, very early when my mother
Speaker 1: divorced my father, it was in the early seventies. We
Speaker 1: have been very arduous and almost impossible to have a
Speaker 1: normal life in South India as a divorced parent. So
Speaker 1: you know, we took the decision as a family to
Speaker 1: move to America, and my grandfather took me aside. And
Speaker 1: I remember I was four. He made me memorize all
Speaker 1: of the states of the country of the United States,
Speaker 1: in autot of order. I don't think I could do
Speaker 1: it today. Um, And he was he wasn't you know,
Speaker 1: a lover of all things American, you know, from um,
Speaker 1: Broadway musicals to baseball to you know, Hollywood movies. To
Speaker 1: Yankee commercials, you know all of that stuff. And Um
Speaker 1: he told me, he said, you will be treated like
Speaker 1: an outsider. They're always regardless of how much you assimilate
Speaker 1: m you know, make sure you're okay with that. It's
Speaker 1: not their fault. They don't know any better. And then
Speaker 1: over time you will also be treated as an outsider
Speaker 1: when you come home to us. And I came home
Speaker 1: all the time. I mean I was home three months
Speaker 1: out of every year from kindergarten to high school. I
Speaker 1: went back to Um Chennai and he said, but what
Speaker 1: you have to do is be choosy enough and understand
Speaker 1: that what's difficult now will be better later because it'll
Speaker 1: give you two points of view, and you can be
Speaker 1: choosy and navigate that and keep what's best and useful
Speaker 1: about our Indian culture and maintain that even in America,
Speaker 1: and take some of the wonderful things about American culture,
Speaker 1: like standing up for yourself and knowing how to talk
Speaker 1: well and articulately and all these things, and using that
Speaker 1: when you come home, then you'll be okay. And I
Speaker 1: do think it was very hard to chattel both cultures
Speaker 1: when I was growing up. Um and I did. I
Speaker 1: felt like an outsider in both America and India, you know,
Speaker 1: never Indian enough in India, never American enough in America.
Speaker 1: But I think that now as I've grown into myself,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm fifty one years old, I don't
Speaker 1: think I grew into myself until ten years ago. By
Speaker 1: the way, UM, I can see how what was difficult
Speaker 1: then and challenging then actually makes me, hopefully a more
Speaker 1: unminded person, or at least gives me double the resources
Speaker 1: from which to answer questions. You know. So I live
Speaker 1: in New York. But as you know, because you've been
Speaker 1: to my home, we you know, we remove our shoes
Speaker 1: before we come into the home. Um. You know, there's
Speaker 1: very very many things in the way that i'm my
Speaker 1: parents that are very very Eastern or Asian, and then
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways that I'm very lax, you know,
Speaker 1: because I'm not traditionally Asian anymore. I'm in America. I
Speaker 1: grew up here, you know, And I think having both
Speaker 1: cultures to call from is an asset when you realize it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't always seem like one, especially when you're a kid,
Speaker 1: you know. And and my grandfather, for example, he was
Speaker 1: offered a position as an ambassador by the Indian government,
Speaker 1: but he didn't want to take it because he said
Speaker 1: he didn't want to have to entertain as an ambassador
Speaker 1: and cook me in his house, you know, is it
Speaker 1: lack to a vegetarian and and so that decision didn't
Speaker 1: feel right for him. But he had the understanding of,
Speaker 1: you know, certain roles require you to bend um to
Speaker 1: certain aspects of fulfilling those roles well, and I think
Speaker 1: it's important to know that. I think, you know, we
Speaker 1: all have to really just slow down and when we're
Speaker 1: doing things, make sure we're doing them deeply and thoughtfully
Speaker 1: and for a purpose, you know, so that it's worth it. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: it is so much in what you said that speaks
Speaker 1: to me. Not just as you know, someone who like
Speaker 1: you shares an Indian background and heritage and grappled with
Speaker 1: a lot of those identity issues, but I think for
Speaker 1: most people as they're going through life, whether they're struggling
Speaker 1: with trying to melt to cultures or trying to find
Speaker 1: their own way in a world that's dominated by people
Speaker 1: who may not be like them or share their points
Speaker 1: of view. Um, there's a process that which we have
Speaker 1: to grow into our own skin, if you will. And
Speaker 1: I often tell a students that one of the most
Speaker 1: important subjects that we study as ourselves getting to know
Speaker 1: ourselves and understand who we are, what we care about,
Speaker 1: understand like why we react the way we do to
Speaker 1: certain things. Uh. That helps us navigate the world. But
Speaker 1: I still feel like I'm finding my own journey you
Speaker 1: know there as well. You know, sometimes I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, come from my own skin, and then something
Speaker 1: will happen, you know, universe sometimes humbles you, you know,
Speaker 1: and makes you realize how you still got more growing
Speaker 1: to do, and that certainly has happened with me. Um.
Speaker 1: But I'm just you know, as we bring our conversation
Speaker 1: of clothes, I'm I'm thinking about your our shared role
Speaker 1: as parents also, and you know, I know how dearly
Speaker 1: you love Krishna and how she's the most important person
Speaker 1: in the world to you, And I feel, you know,
Speaker 1: the same way about my my two children, they Just
Speaker 1: and Johnathy, who are five and almost four. Um, And
Speaker 1: I think a lot about what I want for them
Speaker 1: in the world, you know, and uh, and I wanted
Speaker 1: everything I can to create that world for them, recognizing
Speaker 1: that everything is not in my control. But as you
Speaker 1: think about the world that you want for krishna Um,
Speaker 1: what does that world look like? And what gives you
Speaker 1: hope that we can create that world. I do still
Speaker 1: have a lot of hope that we can work toward
Speaker 1: a better society because the thing that separates us from
Speaker 1: all other living features is our ability to reason and
Speaker 1: have a conscience and and have empathy. You know, I
Speaker 1: think I want a world in which, uh, everybody has
Speaker 1: access to equal opportunity. When you see the discrepancies in
Speaker 1: education and how segregated. For example, you know New York City,
Speaker 1: which is such a diverse place, It's been the most
Speaker 1: diverse places on the planet, but when you look at
Speaker 1: our education system and you look at the different schools
Speaker 1: and you're there's so much segregation. I think it's the
Speaker 1: most segregated major city in the country. And that just
Speaker 1: shouldn't be because it's obvious that the child that's going
Speaker 1: to one school is not getting anywhere near the education
Speaker 1: that another child is going to another school. And I
Speaker 1: think that we have to level the playing field, and
Speaker 1: we have to see it not as charity. We have
Speaker 1: to see it as an investment in our own future
Speaker 1: and our children's future because again, we share the roads
Speaker 1: and the hospitals, and the world and the skies and
Speaker 1: the streams and the water and you know, the air
Speaker 1: we breathe with each other, and so we have to
Speaker 1: share that responsibility as well with each other. UM. I
Speaker 1: think we have to wrap our heads, and I hope
Speaker 1: we do. We're such a consumer focused society. UM, you
Speaker 1: know that that some we don't need so many things.
Speaker 1: What we need are better conditions for everybody. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of unhappiness. UM that has been exacerbated
Speaker 1: because of COVID, because people are seeing how unequal the
Speaker 1: world is. And you know, it's very unequal just based
Speaker 1: on your gender. It's you know, very unequal, based on
Speaker 1: the color of your skin, is very unequal, based on
Speaker 1: how much your parents make or whether you have a
Speaker 1: college degree. And um, all jobs are important. Everyone has
Speaker 1: a role to play. You know, when we were little,
Speaker 1: we all watched Sesame Street and you had the fireman
Speaker 1: and the doctor, and the chef, and the school teacher
Speaker 1: and the scientist, um, and they were all kind of
Speaker 1: who are the people in your neighborhood? You know, we
Speaker 1: didn't say, well, these are the important people and these
Speaker 1: are the ones who should you know, have access to
Speaker 1: getting our kids into private school and all that. Um,
Speaker 1: I think that's really important. I think when I talked
Speaker 1: to Christia about what our hopes and dreams are, I
Speaker 1: try to leave gender out of it. You know, she
Speaker 1: will have a much easier time for a whole host
Speaker 1: of reasons than I did, not only economically because of
Speaker 1: the resources she has access to, but also because she
Speaker 1: presents as a Caucasian child, you know, and and that
Speaker 1: would just make her life easier. But I try to
Speaker 1: always instill in her what you know, my grandfather instilled
Speaker 1: in me, which is when you go to sleep today
Speaker 1: and for you, you're a child, so all you have
Speaker 1: to do is learn. You don't have to actually do anything.
Speaker 1: That's your main job to learn. You know, have you
Speaker 1: learned something today that you didn't know this morning? Or
Speaker 1: if you're an adult, have you done something today, um,
Speaker 1: to make your presence on earth, this course of this,
Speaker 1: just this one day more worthwhile. You know, it can
Speaker 1: be anything can be you know, seeing somebody draw something
Speaker 1: and picking it up and running and say hey you
Speaker 1: dropped your hat, or helping someone across the street. That
Speaker 1: you can just make a commitment to do one random
Speaker 1: act of kindness or helping a colleague or whatever that
Speaker 1: however that looks to you, you know, we have lost
Speaker 1: the respect for everyone's effort. Somehow we aren't considering everyone's effort.
Speaker 1: And even you know, even just the children's book Tomatoes
Speaker 1: for Nila is about stopping and respecting where tomato comes from.
Speaker 1: Who picks that tomato, and what are the conditions of
Speaker 1: their life and their work, and why we have to
Speaker 1: remember where that tomato came from, you know, where it
Speaker 1: first grew. How do we cook it, how do we
Speaker 1: bring it home, how do we make sure we're only
Speaker 1: buying it in season, how we take care of everything
Speaker 1: we do, and how we cook that tomato to put
Speaker 1: it something in our body because we respect our body
Speaker 1: and respect our own efforts. It has to do with
Speaker 1: slowing down and being really mindful and thoughtful about everything
Speaker 1: we do and everything we say. Things we were probably
Speaker 1: all taught when we were five or six, but have
Speaker 1: lost sight of because the world has begun to spin somehowever,
Speaker 1: fat God, that's so beautifully said Padma, And what a
Speaker 1: beautiful vision for the world for Christna, for all of
Speaker 1: our children to aspire to. I share your sense of
Speaker 1: hope that we can build that world because I I
Speaker 1: think it requires not transforming into someone that we're not.
Speaker 1: I think it's fundamentally who we are. This is about
Speaker 1: remembering what our true instincts are, and I think our
Speaker 1: true instincts are to be loving and kind toward one another.
Speaker 1: I think over the years, circumstances make us fearful and
Speaker 1: angry toward one another. It makes us feel that, you know,
Speaker 1: life is about scarcity, and that what we get or
Speaker 1: what somebody else gets, is something that's been taken away
Speaker 1: from us. Um. But I think that that does a
Speaker 1: disservice to our history and to our true nature, which
Speaker 1: is I think, to be more kind and more connected
Speaker 1: with one another and this vision every so much of
Speaker 1: what we've talked about today has been about connection, and
Speaker 1: I think that the pandemic is I think, as you said,
Speaker 1: I think so eloquently in the beginning, the pandemic has
Speaker 1: reminded us of why that connection is so important, because
Speaker 1: we can get through our day is much less a
Speaker 1: pandemic without the help of somebody else. Um. Finally, when
Speaker 1: I think about my kids too, I want for them,
Speaker 1: what what you want for Krishna. I want a world
Speaker 1: that is fueled by love and kindness, not by fear
Speaker 1: and anger. I want for them to grow up in
Speaker 1: a community where people accept them for who they are,
Speaker 1: and where people ask questions before they judge them or
Speaker 1: blame them. And I want my kids to be the
Speaker 1: same toward other people, to give them the benefit of
Speaker 1: the doubt, and to contribute to that sort of world
Speaker 1: grounded and compassion and care um. So I think we
Speaker 1: can get there. I mean, I think it starts with
Speaker 1: getting to know one another, with taking time to pause
Speaker 1: in our incredibly fast paced lives and ask ourselves that
Speaker 1: bigger question the pandemic is forced, which is what matters
Speaker 1: truly to our happiness? What's really meaningful in our relationships?
Speaker 1: What do we really want out of life? So I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful that we had this conversation, Padma. Whenever we
Speaker 1: have a chance to talk to one another, you always
Speaker 1: teach me things but also make me think about the
Speaker 1: world in in deeper ways. And so I so appreciate
Speaker 1: you and everything you're doing in the world right now. Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You know, even with anger, I
Speaker 1: think we're all there's a lot of anger in the world.
Speaker 1: But I think one thing to remember when you encounter
Speaker 1: anger is that anger is just pain with nowhere to go.
Speaker 1: And sometimes just acknowledging that we're all hurting, um, and
Speaker 1: that this person is angry because they've been hurt in
Speaker 1: some way, you know, whether that's been intentional or not.
Speaker 1: That is, that is the the effect of what something
Speaker 1: that's happened to them, that's done to them. And so
Speaker 1: just remembering that and and just saying, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to add to that, you know, even if they're adding
Speaker 1: to my own plight of anger, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do that. I'm going to be the one to write
Speaker 1: that cycle if possible. Um. And often it does just
Speaker 1: take some thoughtfulness, it really does. It's Um, we look
Speaker 1: at the beautiful world. Human kind is already created. You know,
Speaker 1: we are capable of so much good. We're also capable of, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, tearing each other apart. But let's use our
Speaker 1: forces in power for good. We deserve it and me
Speaker 1: be good. Absolutely well, beautifully said, and what an inspiring note.
Speaker 1: D end On Padma, thank you so much for this conversation.
Speaker 1: I'm sending my love to you and to Krishna Thank
Speaker 1: you to your family. Also, it's so nice to speak
Speaker 1: with you again, Vivic. I wish you much success and
Speaker 1: they used to come in your new or renew job
Speaker 1: as surgeon General. All right, take care everyone, Thanks again
Speaker 1: so much. Next Question with Katie Kirk is a production
Speaker 1: of My Heart Media and Katie Kirk Media. The executive
Speaker 1: producers Army, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Littz. The supervising producer
Speaker 1: is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio.
Speaker 1: The show is edited and mixed by Derrek Clements. For
Speaker 1: more information about today's episode, or to sign up for
Speaker 1: my morning newsletter wake Up Call, go to Katie correct
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find me at Katie Correct
Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,