WEBVTT - Play the Record Backwards, Part 2 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.360 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:14.560 Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.400 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Seth Nicholas Johnson Joe. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.279 As of this recording still out on Parental Leaf. We'll 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.360 be back soon. But in this episode, Seth and I 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:29.360 are continuing our exploration of hidden messages and allegations of 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:34.360 hidden messages, secrets, and easter eggs in music. In the 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.280 last episode we talked a lot about back masking, about 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:41.159 reversed audio. We mentioned some other examples of of the 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.720 way that things can and we're hidden in music. But 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.159 in this episode we are going to venture into the groove, 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.160 into the record groove, and discuss physical media and even 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.320 more detail. We did touch on it a bit in 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.280 the last one. So if you if you basically know 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.000 nothing about via records and how you play a record, 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:04.759 go back and listen to that first episode, because we 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:06.920 we do talk about some of that, Because I mean, 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.080 part of the background here for for this discussion is 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.520 as much as I admire certain vinyl records that come 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.880 out and I see them, you know, on a website 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.520 or in a store, I've never purchased one and since 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.360 a child, I've been told to avoid touching vinyl records. 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.000 Let the adults use that. Uh you don't want to 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.440 break the needle or scratch the record, etcetera. And so 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.440 I've left them alone. Seth. On the other hand, UH, 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.320 you have a very different relationship with records. Absolutely, I've 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:40.000 manufactured vinyl. UM. I've processed vinyl coming from UM like 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:44.120 like full blown uh pressing plants. I've been buying it 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:48.160 most of my life. UM. For me, when I was younger, 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.480 I reached certain points where I inherited a few records 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.280 for like my parents, but they didn't have a very 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.600 sizable collection. But when I started going to record stores 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.880 in my youth to to buy cd s, there was 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:03.280 a point when I realized, oh wow, these other things 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.800 are so much cheaper than the CDs. This would have 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.080 been in like the nineties, And Uh that was all 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.280 there was to it was. I was just greedy for music, 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:13.440 and I was just like, all right, how am I 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.880 going to uh get as much music as possible. I'm 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.119 gonna buy these used records as much as I can. 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.639 And in fact, at that stage, UM, I can give 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:28.160 some deliberate examples like, for example, Um, let's say Radiohead. Um, 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.400 I might be wrong the live recordings that record. I 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.680 remember holding a CD in one hand and a vinyl 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.160 record in the other, and the record was cheaper, so 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:37.920 I went, oh, all right, I guess I'm going with 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:39.840 the record. The same thing with a Widow City by 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.040 the Fiery Furnaces, just like that era the late nineties 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.360 early two thousands where it was like, oh, new vinyl 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:50.880 is cheaper than new CDs. Now that is completely the opposite, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.680 so be prepared if you're going into a record store. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.200 But at the time it was not a very popular format. 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.040 So that's why I got into vinyl was just because 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:00.160 it was the less expensive option so I could buy 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.360 more music. And so yeah, that that's that's kind of 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.360 why it started for me. Now, in looking at a 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.720 record and in playing a record, this is this is 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:11.720 where I really had no idea about any of this. 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.320 I kind of had this idea that if you if 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.320 you place a record on the turn of table, you 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.440 place a needle in the groove, there's there's just one 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.240 path that it is. Essentially, I guess it's kind of 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.200 like the distinction between the labyrinth and a maze. If 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.840 you if you if you have if you make that distinction, 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.920 like a labyrinth, there's only one way through. It twists 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.680 and turns, but you can't get lost because there there 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.880 are no dead ends. It is a journey through complexity 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.960 from point A to point B. A maaze, however, can 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.680 be different. Amaze can have different paths through the complexity. 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.800 Amaze can have dead ends, it can have traps, you 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.560 can have dragons and trolls and so forth, if you 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.840 if you want um and based on a lot of 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.480 what I ended up reading here, and and and based 0:03:57.520 --> 0:03:59.760 on what I think we're gonna be discussing here, it 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.680 does seem to me like actually, vinyl records are more 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.360 like this maze. There there's more. There's sometimes more than 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:12.560 one path through the record, the good ones, I would say, 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.680 the average record. I think you're correct. There is a 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.680 very deliberate path, always starts in the same place out 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:20.640 at the edge of the record, always ends at the 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.279 same place, which is the inside of the record. I 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.600 think that's that's the most common route, but there there 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.600 are many examples of people trying new things, people going 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.000 different routes with that, and this is this is so 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.839 just counter to like the tape culture, the DVD culture, 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.800 and then the subsequent digital media culture that that that 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.120 that I most have most of my experience with, like 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.479 there were there was there will get into some examples. Yeah, 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.480 you have things like hidden tracks with with CDs and 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.560 so forth. But this is a whole different scenario. This 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.159 is like the it's like the record as puzzle box, 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.520 you know. Yeah, yeah, and it's fun where you can 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.080 hide these things. Like I said, I've I've manufactured a 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.719 lot of records on my own. In particular, Um, I 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.600 do what's called lay the embossed records. And uh so 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.640 here's here's a fascinating thing I have personally done, which 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:15.279 I think is is really cool. So on a compact disc, okay, uh, 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.200 the data is written from the inside, you know, towards 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.560 towards the center to the outside. Vinyl is the opposite 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.920 that the information is on the outside going inside. So 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.359 usually on a CD there will be some blank space 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.680 because there's like eighty something minutes of of of space 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.960 on on a compact disc. If you're whatever you're doing 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.840 doesn't use up that much space, you have this extra 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.240 room on the end. So what I've done, I have 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.880 flipped a compact disc upside down and put a song 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.440 from a Vinyl you know, embossing needle onto the underside 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.760 of the c D. And now not only is that 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:52.800 a CD that can be played in a CD player, 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:54.520 but if you flip it upside on and put it 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.560 on a record player, you can play a song on 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:01.200 the underside of the CD itself. So like fun, things 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.440 like that you can do with vinyl, and it's just 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.520 not it's you know that fun isn't there in most 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.800 of the other mediums. All right, well, let's get into 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.479 some specific examples here. And for this I'm gonna go 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.480 back to an article that I referenced in the first 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.760 episode that we did. This is by Jonathan Vinyl, Darryl Griffiths, 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.719 and Stuart Cunningham in Easter Eggs, Hidden Tracks and Messages 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.200 and Musical Mediums, and they write that there are three 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.800 primary ways that records allow for hidden information. The first 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.000 is something called locked grooves. So these are grooves which 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:40.400 cause the turntable to play an endless loop. And I guess, 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.000 I guess you you'll have to maybe help me make 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.839 sense of this. But is it like if the needle 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:50.280 enters this particular groove it will just go on forever 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.760 in a circle. I have a record here next to me. Coincidentally, 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.279 I'll just show you literally on it. Sorry, I won't 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.679 be able to show you because this is a audio medium, 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.200 but I'm pointing it out to Robert. All right, So Robert, 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.880 you see this record in front of you. The song 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.520 plays starting here at the outside, and then it moves 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.040 to the inside. Like I was saying, now, when the 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:14.920 needle gets past the songs, the record needs to stop it. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.640 It needs to stop the needle from just running into 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:21.400 the paper label or anything like that. So right here, 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.000 right next to the label, like basically a big circle 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:28.080 going around the paper label center of a record. That 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.280 is where the traditional locked groove is. There's no sound 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.440 on it. It's just instead of a spiral, because that's 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.360 basically what a groove is. It's a very elaborate, very 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.960 dense spiral, you know, containing different grooves and therefore vibrations 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.760 and sound. The very very bottom of that spiral, it 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.200 doesn't still end as a spiral. It ends as a 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:52.760 solid circle. That way, the needle when it's finished will 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.440 more or less stay still. It'll just stay in at 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.400 that central point and it won't cut into the label 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.200 or whatever. So if I'm, for instance, if I'm watching 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.520 a film in which a record has been this is 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.640 my main experience of this. In a movie of a 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.360 record is finished playing, sometimes it'll it'll just be that 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.160 to chunk to chunk kind of sound. That's the locked 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.559 groove at the end of the record. Yes, although most 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.480 locked grooves wouldn't make any sound at all. But yes, 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.960 correct that that that kind of like stereotypical loop down 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.480 there at the end. Yes, yes, well, the authors of 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.360 this paper, they point out, quote, most records will only 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.120 contain a silent locked groove to prevent damage to the 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.360 needle when it reaches the end of the side. Like 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.440 you explained, the presence of a locked groove that contains 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.199 music would be difficult to detect without prior knowledge or 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.360 careful visual inspection of the grooves. Therefore, a music containing 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.800 locked groove has a good chance of surprising the listener 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:53.000 during the performance of the recording. That's true, if you're 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.400 looking at it from the outside, it doesn't look any difference, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.160 just just just like um. For the most part, if 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:00.880 you're looking at groove is on a record, you can't 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.200 determine what's on them. Actually you can if you if 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.280 you have very very talented eyes, eventually you can like 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.560 tell what the silence looks like. But that's that's that's 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.440 just experts only. That's that's not the average person at all. 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.000 The prime example that they mentioned in the paper of 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.920 this is of of having music in the locked groove 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.360 brings us back to the Beatles A Day in the 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.160 Life from Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart Hearts called Band. This 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:28.280 song enters a locked groove at the end of the song, 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.800 a locked groove that contains music. And I mean, thinking 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.040 back on the on the song, I mean, I know 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.240 where this is occurring, but I only have experience with 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.920 like the CD version of this. I had this album 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.920 on CD when I was I think in high school. Um, 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.760 but if you were playing the record, that final tone 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.199 of the song potentially goes on forever, Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.040 as as as long as you don't lift it, because yeah, 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.960 like I was saying, that central locked groove, it's there's 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.480 no data there, it's silent there, it's there's no sound. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.559 It's just like you're saying, like chunk chunk, chunk chunk, 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:06.040 it's just moving in a circle. But there's no rule 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.360 that says you can't put some some noise on those grooves. 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.720 Why not? You know, why not have that circle be 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.959 a loop of audio? Why not? And have you experimented 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.360 with this? Uh in creating records? I have many times 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.680 because it's fun, like, why wouldn't you? You know? Uh? 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.280 So Um. The most importantly, uh, something to keep in 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.840 mind when you're doing this is that it's actually a 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:32.520 a pretty small window for for to to create that loop. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.520 So a typical record rotates at thirty three and a 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.679 third revolutions per minute summer forty five, but that's a 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.200 that's usually for singles. So yeah, thirty three and a 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.360 third revolutions per minute, which means that a single rotation 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.880 of the record, one needle going all the way around 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.720 is one point eight seconds. So that's how long your 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.240 loop has to be. One point eight seconds, no more, 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.559 no less. So so, UM, here's an example of what 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.840 I've done. I did one where it was called it 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.640 was a series called skip records, where what I did was, 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.040 um oh, that's actually another good, great example. If you 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.160 ever are listening to a record that's damaged and the 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:11.000 record starts skipping it's always the same duration. It's always 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.120 one point eight seconds because that same fragments is going 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.720 to be playing again and again and again. That that 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:19.960 that's why UM you can actually tell if someone is 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.560 faking a skipping record because it will be longer or 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.200 shorter than that quick just like zip a dip atep 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.720 up zip, but step puttep up. It's that's that one 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.920 point eight second loop. And in fact, when when when 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.840 I am manufacturing records, that's the final step before I 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.319 finish a record is UM. So if you can picture 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.520 it in your mind, there is basically UM an arm 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.920 that has a cutting needle. Usually it's a a sapphire 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:48.000 or a ruby, and it's pressing into the use polycarbonate. 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.880 It's pressing into the polycarbonate and it's moving from left 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.960 to right on on like a spiral arm. Basically, what 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.120 you do is when you're done recording, is you stop 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.920 that arm from moving left or fight. Then you go 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.480 one one thousand to one thousand, and then you lift 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.240 it up. And what you're doing by by stopping the 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.760 movement is you're ending that spiral in a single place 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.200 and you wait one one thousand, two one thousand for 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.160 it to complete that circle and end that loop. But 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.520 if you are still playing audio when you do that 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.560 one one thousand, two one thousand, what you're doing is 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.280 still putting data, putting information, putting sound into that loop, 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:28.320 and you can make it go forever. So, like I 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.560 was saying, I had a series called Skip Records where 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.680 my whole point was I wanted it to sound like 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.480 a record was just skipping for five minutes straight. Don't 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.240 ask me why it's art, you know it's fun. And 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.800 uh so I I did this multiple times. And the 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.680 fun part is is that I on these records, I 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:51.320 always ensured that the final groove was always a locked groove. 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:56.160 Therefore potentially that these records loop forever, that there is 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.240 no end to this record and it can just play 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.240 until your record play or breaks, or until tell there's 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.560 a power outage. It's just it's a it's a it's 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.679 a forever equation. And you have favorite examples of this 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.960 from from from other records, from from bands and so forth. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.040 There's a lot. And actually it's it's fun to me because, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.640 like you said, you usually don't know when it's going 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.160 to happen. So for me, if I put on a record, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.720 and it's playing and it ends up in a locked 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.760 groove and you've never heard this record before. You might 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.880 be off on the other side, reading or playing a 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.800 video game or doing the dishes, who knows, and you 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.960 notice that, like, wow, it's been doing this one tone 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.200 for like forty five minutes. That's not even possible on 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.040 a record, Like there's not that much room. What is happening? 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.160 And you walk over and you're like, ah, this record's 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.000 got a locked groove. Uh. This happened to me once 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:47.800 on one of my favorite records, And this is my 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:52.840 favorite example of this. The Godspeed You Black Emperor album 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:58.280 F sharp, A sharp Infinity. The final track Bleak Uncertain Beautiful. 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.480 It ends on a locked groove of playing the final 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.240 two notes of the song, and those last two notes 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.599 are F sharp and A sharp, and by being on 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.520 a locked groove, they play for infinity. And yeah, I 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:12.760 still remember the first time I played that record and 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.600 when that needle hit that that final moment, it just 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.439 kept going and going and going, and I was like, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.680 this is wonderful. Like it took me. You know, I 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.320 had to be active, I had I had to realize 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.640 that something was not right, investigate and realize what they 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.400 had done to me and my time. It's it's it's 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.080 a fun practice, you know. Do you maybe this doesn't occur, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.280 but do you. Are you ever in a position where 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.320 someone comes up to you and says like, I'm I 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.280 don't know anything about records, but I'm gonna get into 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.720 records now, I'm gonna start buying vinyl. And then do 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.720 you have to warn them, like, look, people have laid 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.640 traps for you. But the main one which I actually 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.600 will warn people about, because these things were discussing, a 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.400 locked groove doesn't happen that often, So some other techniques 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.920 were about to discuss don't happen that often. It's it's 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.600 it's it's pretty rare, and they're and they're extra cool 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.400 because of it. One that is extremely common that actually 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.000 happens all the time, not just to others but to 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.880 me as well, is the difference between a thirty three 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.040 and a third record and a forty five record. Because 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:20.120 forty five rpm records, I'm sure you everyone would understand this. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:24.080 A forty five rpm it's spinning faster. So therefore the 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.320 data that's put onto it that the vibrations the grooves 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.920 are at a different speed. You know, so if you 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.080 if you put on a forty five rpm record at 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.920 thirty three and a third, it's extremely slowed down, So 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.400 you might have a completely incorrect view of a song 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.240 if you don't pay attention to what the speed is. 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.360 And uh, there's audiophile pressings of records where they'll have 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.120 full twelve inch records that are printed at forty five 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.200 rpm because there's there's more room for the grooves so 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.000 they can sound better. Blah blah blah, and so you 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.000 just have to know. You have to hopefully the artist 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.040 has labeled the record this is a forty five rpm, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:02.600 or you just have to listen to and go, that's 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.600 not right. Try it at thirty three and a third, 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.800 Try it at forty five and go, Okay, that's right. 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.160 But sometimes you won't know. Sometimes they won't label it 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:11.520 and they won't tell you, So you just have to 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.200 make your best guests. Like like R. E. M. For example, 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.960 used to never label the sides of their records, like 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.760 there was no side A, side B. It was just hey, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.120 you listen to one and they listen to the other. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.360 I'm not telling you which is which, and not until 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.560 c d S came around, that did. They have to 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:31.920 eventually decide and put an actual track order for you. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.400 And there were a couple that I learned I had 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.320 the wrong order, like, for example, UM, I always listened 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.520 to Murmur by R. E. M. Side B first, then 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:42.480 side A, but I had no way of knowing that 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.520 until I bought a CD of it. Wow. All right, 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.160 well we'll get back to track ordering in a bit. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:50.360 There's gonna be more on that. But getting back to 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.280 the three main methods of hiding stuff in the grooves 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.160 here from that two four teen paper, The next one 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:01.880 they mentioned is inverse grooves. So if I'm understanding this correctly, 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:03.680 it is a record that it is meant to be 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:08.520 played backwards. If you play it forwards, you're playing it backwards. 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.080 Is that correct? Yes, they think about it this way M. 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.960 As we're discussing. When you're playing a record, you start 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.960 the needle at the rim and you press play and 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.680 it continues until it hits the label. That's the traditional 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.840 way a record plays. The grooves are set up that way, 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.680 the spiral leading down to the drain, you know, that's 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.639 that's the way it goes. These are the other way around. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.439 You are supposed to start the needle in the middle 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.520 and then it plays out to the edge, almost like 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:40.600 manga style. It's like, oh, start the other end, you know. Yeah. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.240 So they mentioned a couple of examples of this. One 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.840 is a this one. I don't know, were you familiar 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.840 with this particular um group. This is a Noma's track 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.399 that would gorf beat one from the practice us a 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.040 EP and it includes the instructions to play it. One 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.240 must place the needle at the point where you would 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.280 expect the tract end. And then they also mentioned Megadeth 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.800 single for Sweating Bullets, which was an inverse groove pressing 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.200 and it had a warning on the packaging that said, 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.280 quote paranoid pressing on blue vinyl. Warning, do not attempt 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.080 to play this record in the conventional manner. Both sides 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.840 reverse play from the inside groove outwards. It makes sense 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.440 because I bet the average person they would just assume 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.120 their record was broken, you know, because if you did 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.320 put it the correct place and pressed forward, best case scenario, 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.000 you're getting it to play backwards. More probable is that 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.000 because that is starting with the locked groove, it won't 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.879 be able to enter into that spiral, so it'll just 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.200 sit there and you just hear nothing so or maybe 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.040 a little little skipping or some static. But another great 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.920 example of this, uh, this is found on Jack White's 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.560 two thousand fourteen solo album Lazaretto. Jack White and his 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.880 record label Third Man Records are known for doing all 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.920 kinds of fun gimmicky things, like they have like liquid 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.439 core records. They have records where like there'll be a 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.880 forty five inch record hidden inside of a twelve inch 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:07.560 you have like cut open the record to pull out 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.000 another record. Like He's done a lot of really fun, 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.520 interesting things. He is the Willy Wonka of of of 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.159 record manufacturers, and I really admire him for that. Um 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.320 for his two thousand fourteen album Lazaretto, he just wanted 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.639 to put it all in one record. He wanted to 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.320 be all the gimmicks all at once, so he he 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:29.359 um called this version of Lazaretto the Ultra LP And 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.520 it's got so many fun gimmicks and innovations that we 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.399 would need literally an entire episode just to break them down. 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:37.439 But you can. You can find copies of it to 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.680 see online. I believe there's also a YouTube video which 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.480 I sent you, Robert, which has Jack White just pointing 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.200 out every single wacky gimmick of this one single record. 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.400 But but on side one of this record, it does 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.520 play backwards like you're saying you have to start the 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:54.800 new needle by the label, and it plays out to 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.520 the rim. And I wonder how many people just couldn't 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.280 figure that out, because know, I mean, it's um, I 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:03.000 know a lot of people who are just in life, 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.760 they aren't reading instructions. Kind of people, you know, like 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.000 if they get a piece of furniture from Ikea, they're 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:09.720 not going to read the instructions. Is just gonna put 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.320 it together. And I'm sure buying a record, you don't 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.160 even assume that there will be instructions, you know, whether 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.600 it was Mega Death with Sweating Bullets or whether it's 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.359 Jack White with Lazaretto, why would there be instructions, So 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.760 you just you just play it and you're confused why 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.240 it's not working. Yeah, this Lazaretto album. We when you 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:31.560 initially mentioned it to me in our chat, you listed 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.280 all the gimmicks it had, and I didn't even understand 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.880 all of them. It seems like it makes me think 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.480 of of the book um House of Leaves. This feels 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:44.560 like it it's like the House of Leaves of vinyl records. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.760 and it was very popular, I believe. I know it 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.199 was the best selling record at the time, but I 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:51.920 think like for the year it was like the best 0:20:51.920 --> 0:21:00.760 selling vinyl record for that year than Alright, moving on 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.479