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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Seth Nicholas Johnson Joe.

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Speaker 1: As of this recording still out on Parental Leaf. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back soon. But in this episode, Seth and I

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Speaker 1: are continuing our exploration of hidden messages and allegations of

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Speaker 1: hidden messages, secrets, and easter eggs in music. In the

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Speaker 1: last episode we talked a lot about back masking, about

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Speaker 1: reversed audio. We mentioned some other examples of of the

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Speaker 1: way that things can and we're hidden in music. But

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Speaker 1: in this episode we are going to venture into the groove,

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Speaker 1: into the record groove, and discuss physical media and even

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Speaker 1: more detail. We did touch on it a bit in

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Speaker 1: the last one. So if you if you basically know

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Speaker 1: nothing about via records and how you play a record,

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to that first episode, because we

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Speaker 1: we do talk about some of that, Because I mean,

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Speaker 1: part of the background here for for this discussion is

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Speaker 1: as much as I admire certain vinyl records that come

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Speaker 1: out and I see them, you know, on a website

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Speaker 1: or in a store, I've never purchased one and since

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Speaker 1: a child, I've been told to avoid touching vinyl records.

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Speaker 1: Let the adults use that. Uh you don't want to

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Speaker 1: break the needle or scratch the record, etcetera. And so

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Speaker 1: I've left them alone. Seth. On the other hand, UH,

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Speaker 1: you have a very different relationship with records. Absolutely, I've

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Speaker 1: manufactured vinyl. UM. I've processed vinyl coming from UM like

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Speaker 1: like full blown uh pressing plants. I've been buying it

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Speaker 1: most of my life. UM. For me, when I was younger,

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Speaker 1: I reached certain points where I inherited a few records

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Speaker 1: for like my parents, but they didn't have a very

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Speaker 1: sizable collection. But when I started going to record stores

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Speaker 1: in my youth to to buy cd s, there was

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Speaker 1: a point when I realized, oh wow, these other things

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Speaker 1: are so much cheaper than the CDs. This would have

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Speaker 1: been in like the nineties, And Uh that was all

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Speaker 1: there was to it was. I was just greedy for music,

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Speaker 1: and I was just like, all right, how am I

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Speaker 1: going to uh get as much music as possible. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna buy these used records as much as I can.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, at that stage, UM, I can give

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Speaker 1: some deliberate examples like, for example, Um, let's say Radiohead. Um,

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Speaker 1: I might be wrong the live recordings that record. I

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Speaker 1: remember holding a CD in one hand and a vinyl

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Speaker 1: record in the other, and the record was cheaper, so

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Speaker 1: I went, oh, all right, I guess I'm going with

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Speaker 1: the record. The same thing with a Widow City by

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Speaker 1: the Fiery Furnaces, just like that era the late nineties

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Speaker 1: early two thousands where it was like, oh, new vinyl

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Speaker 1: is cheaper than new CDs. Now that is completely the opposite,

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Speaker 1: so be prepared if you're going into a record store.

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Speaker 1: But at the time it was not a very popular format.

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Speaker 1: So that's why I got into vinyl was just because

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Speaker 1: it was the less expensive option so I could buy

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Speaker 1: more music. And so yeah, that that's that's kind of

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Speaker 1: why it started for me. Now, in looking at a

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Speaker 1: record and in playing a record, this is this is

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Speaker 1: where I really had no idea about any of this.

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Speaker 1: I kind of had this idea that if you if

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Speaker 1: you place a record on the turn of table, you

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Speaker 1: place a needle in the groove, there's there's just one

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Speaker 1: path that it is. Essentially, I guess it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the distinction between the labyrinth and a maze. If

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Speaker 1: you if you if you have if you make that distinction,

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Speaker 1: like a labyrinth, there's only one way through. It twists

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Speaker 1: and turns, but you can't get lost because there there

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Speaker 1: are no dead ends. It is a journey through complexity

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Speaker 1: from point A to point B. A maaze, however, can

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Speaker 1: be different. Amaze can have different paths through the complexity.

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Speaker 1: Amaze can have dead ends, it can have traps, you

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Speaker 1: can have dragons and trolls and so forth, if you

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Speaker 1: if you want um and based on a lot of

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Speaker 1: what I ended up reading here, and and and based

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Speaker 1: on what I think we're gonna be discussing here, it

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Speaker 1: does seem to me like actually, vinyl records are more

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Speaker 1: like this maze. There there's more. There's sometimes more than

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Speaker 1: one path through the record, the good ones, I would say,

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Speaker 1: the average record. I think you're correct. There is a

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Speaker 1: very deliberate path, always starts in the same place out

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Speaker 1: at the edge of the record, always ends at the

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Speaker 1: same place, which is the inside of the record. I

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Speaker 1: think that's that's the most common route, but there there

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Speaker 1: are many examples of people trying new things, people going

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Speaker 1: different routes with that, and this is this is so

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Speaker 1: just counter to like the tape culture, the DVD culture,

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Speaker 1: and then the subsequent digital media culture that that that

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Speaker 1: that I most have most of my experience with, like

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Speaker 1: there were there was there will get into some examples. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have things like hidden tracks with with CDs and

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Speaker 1: so forth. But this is a whole different scenario. This

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Speaker 1: is like the it's like the record as puzzle box,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, yeah, and it's fun where you can

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Speaker 1: hide these things. Like I said, I've I've manufactured a

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Speaker 1: lot of records on my own. In particular, Um, I

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Speaker 1: do what's called lay the embossed records. And uh so

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Speaker 1: here's here's a fascinating thing I have personally done, which

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Speaker 1: I think is is really cool. So on a compact disc, okay, uh,

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Speaker 1: the data is written from the inside, you know, towards

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Speaker 1: towards the center to the outside. Vinyl is the opposite

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Speaker 1: that the information is on the outside going inside. So

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Speaker 1: usually on a CD there will be some blank space

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Speaker 1: because there's like eighty something minutes of of of space

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Speaker 1: on on a compact disc. If you're whatever you're doing

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Speaker 1: doesn't use up that much space, you have this extra

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Speaker 1: room on the end. So what I've done, I have

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Speaker 1: flipped a compact disc upside down and put a song

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Speaker 1: from a Vinyl you know, embossing needle onto the underside

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Speaker 1: of the c D. And now not only is that

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Speaker 1: a CD that can be played in a CD player,

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Speaker 1: but if you flip it upside on and put it

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Speaker 1: on a record player, you can play a song on

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Speaker 1: the underside of the CD itself. So like fun, things

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Speaker 1: like that you can do with vinyl, and it's just

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Speaker 1: not it's you know that fun isn't there in most

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Speaker 1: of the other mediums. All right, well, let's get into

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Speaker 1: some specific examples here. And for this I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: back to an article that I referenced in the first

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Speaker 1: episode that we did. This is by Jonathan Vinyl, Darryl Griffiths,

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Speaker 1: and Stuart Cunningham in Easter Eggs, Hidden Tracks and Messages

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Speaker 1: and Musical Mediums, and they write that there are three

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Speaker 1: primary ways that records allow for hidden information. The first

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Speaker 1: is something called locked grooves. So these are grooves which

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Speaker 1: cause the turntable to play an endless loop. And I guess,

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Speaker 1: I guess you you'll have to maybe help me make

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Speaker 1: sense of this. But is it like if the needle

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Speaker 1: enters this particular groove it will just go on forever

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Speaker 1: in a circle. I have a record here next to me. Coincidentally,

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Speaker 1: I'll just show you literally on it. Sorry, I won't

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Speaker 1: be able to show you because this is a audio medium,

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Speaker 1: but I'm pointing it out to Robert. All right, So Robert,

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Speaker 1: you see this record in front of you. The song

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Speaker 1: plays starting here at the outside, and then it moves

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Speaker 1: to the inside. Like I was saying, now, when the

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Speaker 1: needle gets past the songs, the record needs to stop it.

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Speaker 1: It needs to stop the needle from just running into

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Speaker 1: the paper label or anything like that. So right here,

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Speaker 1: right next to the label, like basically a big circle

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Speaker 1: going around the paper label center of a record. That

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Speaker 1: is where the traditional locked groove is. There's no sound

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Speaker 1: on it. It's just instead of a spiral, because that's

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Speaker 1: basically what a groove is. It's a very elaborate, very

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Speaker 1: dense spiral, you know, containing different grooves and therefore vibrations

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Speaker 1: and sound. The very very bottom of that spiral, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't still end as a spiral. It ends as a

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Speaker 1: solid circle. That way, the needle when it's finished will

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Speaker 1: more or less stay still. It'll just stay in at

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Speaker 1: that central point and it won't cut into the label

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Speaker 1: or whatever. So if I'm, for instance, if I'm watching

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Speaker 1: a film in which a record has been this is

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Speaker 1: my main experience of this. In a movie of a

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Speaker 1: record is finished playing, sometimes it'll it'll just be that

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Speaker 1: to chunk to chunk kind of sound. That's the locked

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Speaker 1: groove at the end of the record. Yes, although most

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Speaker 1: locked grooves wouldn't make any sound at all. But yes,

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Speaker 1: correct that that that kind of like stereotypical loop down

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Speaker 1: there at the end. Yes, yes, well, the authors of

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Speaker 1: this paper, they point out, quote, most records will only

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Speaker 1: contain a silent locked groove to prevent damage to the

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Speaker 1: needle when it reaches the end of the side. Like

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Speaker 1: you explained, the presence of a locked groove that contains

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Speaker 1: music would be difficult to detect without prior knowledge or

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Speaker 1: careful visual inspection of the grooves. Therefore, a music containing

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Speaker 1: locked groove has a good chance of surprising the listener

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Speaker 1: during the performance of the recording. That's true, if you're

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Speaker 1: looking at it from the outside, it doesn't look any difference,

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Speaker 1: just just just like um. For the most part, if

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Speaker 1: you're looking at groove is on a record, you can't

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Speaker 1: determine what's on them. Actually you can if you if

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Speaker 1: you have very very talented eyes, eventually you can like

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Speaker 1: tell what the silence looks like. But that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: just experts only. That's that's not the average person at all.

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Speaker 1: The prime example that they mentioned in the paper of

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Speaker 1: this is of of having music in the locked groove

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Speaker 1: brings us back to the Beatles A Day in the

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Speaker 1: Life from Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart Hearts called Band. This

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Speaker 1: song enters a locked groove at the end of the song,

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Speaker 1: a locked groove that contains music. And I mean, thinking

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Speaker 1: back on the on the song, I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: where this is occurring, but I only have experience with

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Speaker 1: like the CD version of this. I had this album

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Speaker 1: on CD when I was I think in high school. Um,

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Speaker 1: but if you were playing the record, that final tone

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Speaker 1: of the song potentially goes on forever, Is that right? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as as as long as you don't lift it, because yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I was saying, that central locked groove, it's there's

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Speaker 1: no data there, it's silent there, it's there's no sound.

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Speaker 1: It's just like you're saying, like chunk chunk, chunk chunk,

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Speaker 1: it's just moving in a circle. But there's no rule

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Speaker 1: that says you can't put some some noise on those grooves.

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Speaker 1: Why not? You know, why not have that circle be

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Speaker 1: a loop of audio? Why not? And have you experimented

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Speaker 1: with this? Uh in creating records? I have many times

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Speaker 1: because it's fun, like, why wouldn't you? You know? Uh?

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Speaker 1: So Um. The most importantly, uh, something to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind when you're doing this is that it's actually a

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Speaker 1: a pretty small window for for to to create that loop.

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Speaker 1: So a typical record rotates at thirty three and a

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Speaker 1: third revolutions per minute summer forty five, but that's a

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Speaker 1: that's usually for singles. So yeah, thirty three and a

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Speaker 1: third revolutions per minute, which means that a single rotation

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Speaker 1: of the record, one needle going all the way around

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Speaker 1: is one point eight seconds. So that's how long your

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Speaker 1: loop has to be. One point eight seconds, no more,

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Speaker 1: no less. So so, UM, here's an example of what

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Speaker 1: I've done. I did one where it was called it

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Speaker 1: was a series called skip records, where what I did was,

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Speaker 1: um oh, that's actually another good, great example. If you

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Speaker 1: ever are listening to a record that's damaged and the

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Speaker 1: record starts skipping it's always the same duration. It's always

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Speaker 1: one point eight seconds because that same fragments is going

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Speaker 1: to be playing again and again and again. That that

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Speaker 1: that's why UM you can actually tell if someone is

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Speaker 1: faking a skipping record because it will be longer or

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Speaker 1: shorter than that quick just like zip a dip atep

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Speaker 1: up zip, but step puttep up. It's that's that one

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Speaker 1: point eight second loop. And in fact, when when when

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Speaker 1: I am manufacturing records, that's the final step before I

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Speaker 1: finish a record is UM. So if you can picture

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Speaker 1: it in your mind, there is basically UM an arm

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Speaker 1: that has a cutting needle. Usually it's a a sapphire

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Speaker 1: or a ruby, and it's pressing into the use polycarbonate.

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Speaker 1: It's pressing into the polycarbonate and it's moving from left

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Speaker 1: to right on on like a spiral arm. Basically, what

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Speaker 1: you do is when you're done recording, is you stop

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Speaker 1: that arm from moving left or fight. Then you go

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Speaker 1: one one thousand to one thousand, and then you lift

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Speaker 1: it up. And what you're doing by by stopping the

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Speaker 1: movement is you're ending that spiral in a single place

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Speaker 1: and you wait one one thousand, two one thousand for

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Speaker 1: it to complete that circle and end that loop. But

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Speaker 1: if you are still playing audio when you do that

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Speaker 1: one one thousand, two one thousand, what you're doing is

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Speaker 1: still putting data, putting information, putting sound into that loop,

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Speaker 1: and you can make it go forever. So, like I

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Speaker 1: was saying, I had a series called Skip Records where

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Speaker 1: my whole point was I wanted it to sound like

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Speaker 1: a record was just skipping for five minutes straight. Don't

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Speaker 1: ask me why it's art, you know it's fun. And

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Speaker 1: uh so I I did this multiple times. And the

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Speaker 1: fun part is is that I on these records, I

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Speaker 1: always ensured that the final groove was always a locked groove.

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Speaker 1: Therefore potentially that these records loop forever, that there is

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Speaker 1: no end to this record and it can just play

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Speaker 1: until your record play or breaks, or until tell there's

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Speaker 1: a power outage. It's just it's a it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a forever equation. And you have favorite examples of this

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Speaker 1: from from from other records, from from bands and so forth.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot. And actually it's it's fun to me because,

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Speaker 1: like you said, you usually don't know when it's going

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Speaker 1: to happen. So for me, if I put on a record,

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Speaker 1: and it's playing and it ends up in a locked

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Speaker 1: groove and you've never heard this record before. You might

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Speaker 1: be off on the other side, reading or playing a

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Speaker 1: video game or doing the dishes, who knows, and you

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Speaker 1: notice that, like, wow, it's been doing this one tone

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Speaker 1: for like forty five minutes. That's not even possible on

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Speaker 1: a record, Like there's not that much room. What is happening?

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Speaker 1: And you walk over and you're like, ah, this record's

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Speaker 1: got a locked groove. Uh. This happened to me once

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Speaker 1: on one of my favorite records, And this is my

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Speaker 1: favorite example of this. The Godspeed You Black Emperor album

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Speaker 1: F sharp, A sharp Infinity. The final track Bleak Uncertain Beautiful.

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Speaker 1: It ends on a locked groove of playing the final

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Speaker 1: two notes of the song, and those last two notes

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Speaker 1: are F sharp and A sharp, and by being on

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Speaker 1: a locked groove, they play for infinity. And yeah, I

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Speaker 1: still remember the first time I played that record and

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Speaker 1: when that needle hit that that final moment, it just

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Speaker 1: kept going and going and going, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is wonderful. Like it took me. You know, I

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Speaker 1: had to be active, I had I had to realize

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Speaker 1: that something was not right, investigate and realize what they

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Speaker 1: had done to me and my time. It's it's it's

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Speaker 1: a fun practice, you know. Do you maybe this doesn't occur,

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Speaker 1: but do you. Are you ever in a position where

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Speaker 1: someone comes up to you and says like, I'm I

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about records, but I'm gonna get into

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Speaker 1: records now, I'm gonna start buying vinyl. And then do

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Speaker 1: you have to warn them, like, look, people have laid

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Speaker 1: traps for you. But the main one which I actually

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Speaker 1: will warn people about, because these things were discussing, a

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Speaker 1: locked groove doesn't happen that often, So some other techniques

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Speaker 1: were about to discuss don't happen that often. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's pretty rare, and they're and they're extra cool

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Speaker 1: because of it. One that is extremely common that actually

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Speaker 1: happens all the time, not just to others but to

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Speaker 1: me as well, is the difference between a thirty three

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Speaker 1: and a third record and a forty five record. Because

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Speaker 1: forty five rpm records, I'm sure you everyone would understand this.

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Speaker 1: A forty five rpm it's spinning faster. So therefore the

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Speaker 1: data that's put onto it that the vibrations the grooves

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Speaker 1: are at a different speed. You know, so if you

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Speaker 1: if you put on a forty five rpm record at

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Speaker 1: thirty three and a third, it's extremely slowed down, So

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Speaker 1: you might have a completely incorrect view of a song

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Speaker 1: if you don't pay attention to what the speed is.

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Speaker 1: And uh, there's audiophile pressings of records where they'll have

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Speaker 1: full twelve inch records that are printed at forty five

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Speaker 1: rpm because there's there's more room for the grooves so

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Speaker 1: they can sound better. Blah blah blah, and so you

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Speaker 1: just have to know. You have to hopefully the artist

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Speaker 1: has labeled the record this is a forty five rpm,

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Speaker 1: or you just have to listen to and go, that's

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Speaker 1: not right. Try it at thirty three and a third,

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Speaker 1: Try it at forty five and go, Okay, that's right.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes you won't know. Sometimes they won't label it

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Speaker 1: and they won't tell you, So you just have to

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Speaker 1: make your best guests. Like like R. E. M. For example,

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Speaker 1: used to never label the sides of their records, like

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Speaker 1: there was no side A, side B. It was just hey,

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Speaker 1: you listen to one and they listen to the other.

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Speaker 1: I'm not telling you which is which, and not until

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Speaker 1: c d S came around, that did. They have to

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Speaker 1: eventually decide and put an actual track order for you.

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Speaker 1: And there were a couple that I learned I had

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Speaker 1: the wrong order, like, for example, UM, I always listened

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Speaker 1: to Murmur by R. E. M. Side B first, then

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Speaker 1: side A, but I had no way of knowing that

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Speaker 1: until I bought a CD of it. Wow. All right,

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Speaker 1: well we'll get back to track ordering in a bit.

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Speaker 1: There's gonna be more on that. But getting back to

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Speaker 1: the three main methods of hiding stuff in the grooves

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Speaker 1: here from that two four teen paper, The next one

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Speaker 1: they mentioned is inverse grooves. So if I'm understanding this correctly,

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Speaker 1: it is a record that it is meant to be

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Speaker 1: played backwards. If you play it forwards, you're playing it backwards.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes, they think about it this way M.

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Speaker 1: As we're discussing. When you're playing a record, you start

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Speaker 1: the needle at the rim and you press play and

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Speaker 1: it continues until it hits the label. That's the traditional

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Speaker 1: way a record plays. The grooves are set up that way,

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Speaker 1: the spiral leading down to the drain, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: that's the way it goes. These are the other way around.

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Speaker 1: You are supposed to start the needle in the middle

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Speaker 1: and then it plays out to the edge, almost like

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Speaker 1: manga style. It's like, oh, start the other end, you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So they mentioned a couple of examples of this. One

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Speaker 1: is a this one. I don't know, were you familiar

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Speaker 1: with this particular um group. This is a Noma's track

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Speaker 1: that would gorf beat one from the practice us a

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Speaker 1: EP and it includes the instructions to play it. One

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Speaker 1: must place the needle at the point where you would

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Speaker 1: expect the tract end. And then they also mentioned Megadeth

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Speaker 1: single for Sweating Bullets, which was an inverse groove pressing

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Speaker 1: and it had a warning on the packaging that said,

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Speaker 1: quote paranoid pressing on blue vinyl. Warning, do not attempt

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Speaker 1: to play this record in the conventional manner. Both sides

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Speaker 1: reverse play from the inside groove outwards. It makes sense

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Speaker 1: because I bet the average person they would just assume

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Speaker 1: their record was broken, you know, because if you did

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Speaker 1: put it the correct place and pressed forward, best case scenario,

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Speaker 1: you're getting it to play backwards. More probable is that

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Speaker 1: because that is starting with the locked groove, it won't

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Speaker 1: be able to enter into that spiral, so it'll just

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Speaker 1: sit there and you just hear nothing so or maybe

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Speaker 1: a little little skipping or some static. But another great

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Speaker 1: example of this, uh, this is found on Jack White's

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Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen solo album Lazaretto. Jack White and his

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Speaker 1: record label Third Man Records are known for doing all

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Speaker 1: kinds of fun gimmicky things, like they have like liquid

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Speaker 1: core records. They have records where like there'll be a

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Speaker 1: forty five inch record hidden inside of a twelve inch

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Speaker 1: you have like cut open the record to pull out

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Speaker 1: another record. Like He's done a lot of really fun,

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Speaker 1: interesting things. He is the Willy Wonka of of of

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Speaker 1: record manufacturers, and I really admire him for that. Um

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Speaker 1: for his two thousand fourteen album Lazaretto, he just wanted

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Speaker 1: to put it all in one record. He wanted to

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Speaker 1: be all the gimmicks all at once, so he he

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Speaker 1: um called this version of Lazaretto the Ultra LP And

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Speaker 1: it's got so many fun gimmicks and innovations that we

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Speaker 1: would need literally an entire episode just to break them down.

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Speaker 1: But you can. You can find copies of it to

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Speaker 1: see online. I believe there's also a YouTube video which

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Speaker 1: I sent you, Robert, which has Jack White just pointing

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Speaker 1: out every single wacky gimmick of this one single record.

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Speaker 1: But but on side one of this record, it does

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Speaker 1: play backwards like you're saying you have to start the

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Speaker 1: new needle by the label, and it plays out to

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Speaker 1: the rim. And I wonder how many people just couldn't

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Speaker 1: figure that out, because know, I mean, it's um, I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people who are just in life,

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Speaker 1: they aren't reading instructions. Kind of people, you know, like

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Speaker 1: if they get a piece of furniture from Ikea, they're

385
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: not going to read the instructions. Is just gonna put

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00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: it together. And I'm sure buying a record, you don't

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00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: even assume that there will be instructions, you know, whether

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Speaker 1: it was Mega Death with Sweating Bullets or whether it's

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00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 1: Jack White with Lazaretto, why would there be instructions, So

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Speaker 1: you just you just play it and you're confused why

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00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 1: it's not working. Yeah, this Lazaretto album. We when you

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Speaker 1: initially mentioned it to me in our chat, you listed

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Speaker 1: all the gimmicks it had, and I didn't even understand

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Speaker 1: all of them. It seems like it makes me think

395
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Speaker 1: of of the book um House of Leaves. This feels

396
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: like it it's like the House of Leaves of vinyl records. Yeah, yeah,

397
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: and it was very popular, I believe. I know it

398
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Speaker 1: was the best selling record at the time, but I

399
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: think like for the year it was like the best

400
00:20:51,920 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: selling vinyl record for that year than Alright, moving on

401
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,479
Speaker 1: to the next example that they've given this paper. Double

402
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: grooves or parallel grooves quote records where two grooves run

403
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 1: simultaneously through a record, causing the needle to play different

404
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: material depending where it is initially placed. This is apparently

405
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: sometimes referred to as a third side. Yeah, I've also

406
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: heard these called three sided records, and uh yeah, there's

407
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 1: there are a few names for this, but these, these

408
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 1: are these are much more rare. These are fascinating. Yeah,

409
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna have to keep explaining this one to me. Um.

410
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 1: A couple of examples that they mentioned. There's the Monty

411
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Speaker 1: Python matching tie and handkerchief from three, which the packaging

412
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 1: is pretty neat on this because the album is packaged

413
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Speaker 1: to look like you're buying a matching tie and handkerchief,

414
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Speaker 1: which is fun. But side two has two different grooves,

415
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: so depending on where you place the needle, you'll get

416
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: different material. Now, I have firsthand experience because I own

417
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: this record, and it's it's amazing. Here's the best part

418
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: I can say about this. Uh, this one entirely worked

419
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Speaker 1: on me because I didn't even know that there was

420
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Speaker 1: a hidden third side until I read about it later

421
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: and had to investigate for myself, like like like that's

422
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 1: not printed on the record anywhere that there's hidden music

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Speaker 1: or I guess hidden comedy on this record. So so

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Speaker 1: here's here's I think their goal, which was so all

425
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Speaker 1: records side A, side B, the side with two parallel grooves.

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Speaker 1: What's happening is, um, yeah, I guess picture that spiral again.

427
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: But there are two completely different lines to that spiral

428
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: right next to each other, going all the way down

429
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: to that center. So therefore, when you're putting that needle

430
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 1: in that groove, you have basically a fifty chance are

431
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: you going to be in the one groove or the

432
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: groove right next to it that never match up. So

433
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: here's the fun. The fun part is that you you

434
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: listen to side A, everything sounds normal, You turn it over,

435
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: you put on side B, listen to it, everything's normal,

436
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 1: and then you put put away your record. Next month,

437
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 1: you wanna listen to it again. Side everything's normal? Put

438
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: it on side B. Wait, this isn't the side B

439
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: I've heard before. What's happening? And so you listen to it.

440
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: You're like, I swear I heard this differently before, but okay, whatever, whatever, whatever.

441
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: You put it aside, pull it out, put on again.

442
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes side as normal, Side B it's that first side again.

443
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: You're like, wait, wait, wait, I swear last time this

444
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: joke was on there, or maybe you're like talking to

445
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: your friends, You're like, hey, what about that one part?

446
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 1: You know? Did you? Did you love? Track three? Like

447
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: that's not track three? It's like no, no, what definitely is.

448
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: Come over to my house. I'll play it for you.

449
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: You put it on and it plays the wrong side,

450
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, I swear like it's it's it's

451
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,239
Speaker 1: it's like a fun it seems like it's. It's it's

452
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: almost gaslighting you. You know it's it's. It's it's a

453
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: it's a very fun gimmick. Now is this? I'm reminded

454
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: of of a trophy encounter in in a lot of

455
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: like carror and mystery TV shows and short stories where

456
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: someone realizes that there's a hidden compartment in a room

457
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: based on the fact of this room is smaller in

458
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 1: the adjoining room. Is that? Would that be something? With

459
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: this scenario, like, if you were really on the lookout

460
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: for this sort of trick, would you notice that, like

461
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: one side of the record seemed shorter than the other.

462
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: You you would have to be really on your toes,

463
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: because the side of a typical twelve inch record can

464
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: be anywhere from like ten minutes to thirty minutes, depending

465
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: upon how closely you put those grooves together. But yes,

466
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: you you would be able to notice if you paid

467
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: very close attention to how much space was being taken

468
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: up by the grooves, because it's only playing half of

469
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: those grooves when it's going going down the line playing

470
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: all the audio. So like a physical investigation would be needed.

471
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: It wouldn't just be like, well, that side felt this

472
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: long and this one feels different or something. It would

473
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: be possible, but yeah, yeah, you would have to be

474
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: paying a lot of attention. And uh and for me,

475
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: I needed someone to tell me. I needed someone to

476
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: tell me that a record in my collection had three

477
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 1: sides before I before I realized it. The other example

478
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: that they bring up in the paper is Mr. Bungle's

479
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: Disco of Alone te from in which Hidden Grooves contain

480
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: the songs Secret Song and songs by quote the Secret

481
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: Chiefs Trio. And then they also mentioned that secret Song

482
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: is said to be notoriously difficult to find with the needle,

483
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: that that's another part that you can do on purpose. So,

484
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: for example, I believe on the matching the Monty Python record,

485
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: it's more or less a fifty fifty because just when

486
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: you're when you're creating those grooves, you just make the openings,

487
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, the same size. But let's say, for example,

488
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: you want that second song to really be a secret, well,

489
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: then you don't create an opening for it. You haven't

490
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: exist entirely cut off from that primary groove, and it

491
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: can just live there and no one will ever find

492
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: out unless they deliberately not start the record at the beginning,

493
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: but trial and error just kind of drop it in

494
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: the middle of the record, hoping that it lands on

495
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: the correct group that they want to find. So technically,

496
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: you could have situations where they could be albums out

497
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: there with see Creek grooves with secret information in them

498
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: that have never been discovered. That Nicolas Cage has not

499
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: his character in a film, or Tom Hanks's character in

500
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: the film has not put on the record to discover yet.

501
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: Very possible, now, I would say, in all likelihood, depending

502
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: upon the many ways people start records. I'm sure there's

503
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: a large percentage of the world that doesn't carefully place

504
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: the needle at the beginning of of each record before

505
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: they start. They do just PLoP it on wherever, So

506
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: I bet it would be found pretty quickly, I would assume,

507
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: just based on people's sloppy handling of their record needles.

508
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: So do you have any other fun examples of double grooves,

509
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: parallel grooves, and third sides. There's a couple I've heard of,

510
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: but but I've never seen. This is This is a

511
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: great one that I would love to see this in

512
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: person someday, but I've only read about it. It's a

513
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: horse racing board game. So what you do is everyone

514
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: picks their horses, you know, standard like typical you know

515
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: betting forms, and you read a little description about which

516
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: horses what and blah blah blah, and then you start

517
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: the record, which contains all the sound effects of you know,

518
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: being being at the downs and all that, and there's

519
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: an announcer calling the horse race. However, the record has

520
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: multiple parallel grooves, each with a different result, so you

521
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: never know which horse is actually going to be the

522
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: winner when you put that groove on. So so it's

523
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: almost like a choose your own adventure, except you don't

524
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: get a choice, you know. Wow, Yeah, and yeah. I'd

525
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: love to hear from anyone out there who knows of

526
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: other examples of this, because it seems like it's the

527
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: sort of sort of gimmick that that people would have

528
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun with, like I don't know,

529
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: some sort of narrative use of it, with with with

530
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: some sort of a storytelling technique, you know, kind of

531
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: kind of like Clue the movie where you watch it

532
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: and it's got like the multiple endings kind of like that,

533
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: and that'd be fun. Uh, here's one more example, because

534
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 1: we've already mentioned it, Uh, going back again to the

535
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: Ultra LP version of Jack Whites Lazaretto. Like I said,

536
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: he's got a million gimmicks on this one. He has

537
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: a version of parallel grooves that I've never seen before.

538
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: Track one on side BE it's a song called Just

539
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 1: One Drink. It has two completely different intros to the

540
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: song that are parallel grooves, but they both feed in

541
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: to the to the primary groove again, so the rest

542
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: of the record plays completely normal. So it's it's it

543
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: starts off as two spirals and then they both funnel

544
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: into the one standard spiral, so it's and once again,

545
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: it's just luck. Wait wait when you put on that

546
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: needle for the first time, it's it's just a chance

547
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: of am I going to play the like like the

548
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: harder version of the intro or the softer, more acoustic

549
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: version of the intro. It's just who knows what you're

550
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: gonna get? And man, that's fun, Like you can't get

551
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: that with other mediums. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the CD type

552
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: culture we never had anything like that. We'll get into

553
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: some examples of what we did have, but they didn't

554
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: create this kind of level of almost quantum uncertainty, like

555
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: what will happen when I start playing this song? I mean,

556
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: to a certain extend, mystery is there when you play

557
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: a new album for the first time, But the idea

558
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: that subsequent return to that album, that there could be

559
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: not just things that were subjectively different, but objectively different

560
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: things about the listening experience. Yeah, absolutely, all right, Well,

561
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: let's get into the c d age a little bit,

562
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: and let's eventually get into the digital realm as well.

563
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about so called hidden tracks,

564
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: secret tracks. Uh, this is this is an area that

565
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: I I have more familiarity with because again I was,

566
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: I was more of a c D guy than certainly

567
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: than than anything like the CDs were. This was the

568
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: right period where I really got into like choosing my

569
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: own musical interests, choosing the bands that I wanted to

570
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: devote time too. And then also I guess at the

571
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: time too, it's like CDs were starting to get a

572
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: little pricey, so whatever you bought like this was a

573
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 1: deliberate choice. Not only is this an album you wanted

574
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 1: to listen to, you would you would make sure you

575
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: liked it, or you would really give it a chance,

576
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: because this was gonna be your album for the you know,

577
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: for for a week or two maybe more, until you

578
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: could conceivably buy another album. So, you know, we get

579
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: into this realm of secret tracks, and I guess the

580
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: thing about secret and hidden tracks is they ultimately really

581
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: weren't that well hidden. I mean, certainly nothing compared to

582
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: the vinyl examples we've discussed, right right, I mean I

583
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: did enjoy sometimes, and I think this is pretty rare

584
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: when there was literally a hidden disc inside the CD packaging.

585
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: That was fun when that would happen on occasion, but

586
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: for the most part, it was, yeah, you'll you'll explain.

587
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: For the most part, it was pretty straightforward to have

588
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: some hidden songs. Yeah, like the main examples to come

589
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: to my mind, or like Tools Undertow and the nine

590
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: Inch Nails EP Broken, the versions that I had just

591
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: had a bunch of like extra blank tracks and then

592
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: eventually the tracks containing the extra songs. And I believe

593
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: I didn't know about this till I was just researching

594
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: it again for this episode, but apparently with Nine Inch Nail,

595
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: the original c D pressing and the vinyl pressing of

596
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: Broken had an extra smaller disc that had the bonus

597
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: tracks on them. That that was a very brief window

598
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: when Yeah, they were like these little mini CDs that

599
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: in theory could play in any CD player, Like in fact,

600
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: if you happen to have a CD player at home,

601
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: especially when the kind of like a tray, you pop

602
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: it open and you'll notice that there's actually a smaller

603
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: imprint inside where the bigger imprint is. That's for these

604
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: smaller CDs, but that medium lasted like a blink of

605
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: an eye. I think they were more popular in a

606
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: in somewhere in Asia. I want to say Japan, that

607
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: they lasted longer, but yeah, I know that they didn't

608
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: last here very long at all. I remember, though, thinking

609
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: that this was clever and cool, and there was this

610
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: kind of idea that it's like, yeah, nine inch Nails,

611
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: they're kind of they're sticking it to the man. They

612
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: have these in there. They're then they're delivering bonus content

613
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: to us the fans that they clearly the record labels

614
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: didn't want this on here, but they said, no, we insist.

615
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: We're gonna hide it at the end where the inspectors

616
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: won't find it first, right, Hey, hey, why not? I

617
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: like that narrative. I I like picturing, you know, a

618
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: Trent Resioner with these little mini CDs hiding at the

619
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: factory to slip them into each and every package. I mean,

620
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: I guess it wouldn't be entirely out of out of care.

621
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: There were the like later story I forget what album

622
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: this was, but the idea that, like some of the

623
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: tracks were leaked to the media by leaving a USB

624
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: in a bathroom at a concert or something, right, right, Yeah,

625
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: that's that's all fun stuff. Now another example for the

626
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: secret track. Another way the secret track hidden track was

627
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: often utilized would be just have a big long gap

628
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: after the final listed track on the album, and then

629
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: eventually a hidden track starts playing. And of course the

630
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: reverse of that is, once you know it's there, if

631
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: you want to listen to the hidden track, you just

632
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: fast forward through the final track to get to that content.

633
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: It's funny too, because, um, all of these examples, they're

634
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: they're all so tied to the CD itself. And in fact,

635
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: do you remember, um, negative time on a CD player? Yeah,

636
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember what I had one album in

637
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: particular that did this, but I can't recall what it

638
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: was a big thing that would happen, uh that this

639
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: This is like not during the early days of CDs,

640
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: but more towards the later days when basically, um, a

641
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: CD was really kind of being pushed to its to

642
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: its limits of like what it could contain and and

643
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: maybe getting a bit more secretive, getting a bit weirder

644
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: with it. If there was like a bit of audio

645
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: that existed kind of between tracks, whether it be like

646
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: maybe a bit of a skit or an intro, or

647
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: just sort of like an in the studio outtake or something.

648
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: When it was playing and you could watch the time

649
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: on the little um the digital read out, it would

650
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: be like, you know, five seconds, six seconds, seven seconds,

651
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: negative six seconds, negative five seconds, negative four seconds, and

652
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: in that negative space would be this additional noise, little

653
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: little skit, little outtake, whatever, little intro. So that way,

654
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: when you skipped to the final to like the real song,

655
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: it would start where the song starts. But if you

656
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: listen to the album all the way through, this negative

657
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: space would just give a bit more context, a bit

658
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: more padding, a bit more like um continuity, you know.

659
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: And I thought that was pretty fun. But also when

660
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: we reached the age of digitizing our CDs and putting

661
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: them onto you know, our MP three players and whatever,

662
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: oh that that became a headache. Now I don't even

663
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: know how to classify this one. This one is not

664
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: an example that was brought up in the paper, but

665
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: an album that I that I had, and this is

666
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: a great album that the Caius album from Welcome to

667
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: Sky Valley comes to mind. This one had this weird

668
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: structure where it does have a hidden track at the end,

669
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: which is real dumb, but it also has ten tracks overall.

670
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: The first but the I mean ten songs overall. The

671
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: first three songs are all one track, the next three

672
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: songs are all one track, and the last four songs

673
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: are all one track. And I'm not really clear on

674
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: why they did this, but I remember being more annoyed

675
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: by it than anything, because sometimes you want to listen

676
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: to an album all the way through, but sometimes you

677
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: just want to hear Demon Cleaner, which is really great

678
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: track off of that album, really great song off of

679
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: that album, but is the third song in track number two.

680
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: It's a little hard to get to if you just

681
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: want that. I can't speak to um this specific example,

682
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: but I can give this example UM. Just recently, I

683
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: had Joe on on my podcast Rusty Needles Record Club,

684
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: and we did uh the self titled Black Sabbath album

685
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: and on it. The American version combined a bunch of

686
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: the tracks into fewer tracks. So like the original European version,

687
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: let's say, had ten tracks, the American version had like

688
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: six tracks. The albums were more or less identical. They

689
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: swapped out one song, but that's that's beside the point

690
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: more or less identical, just far fewer tracks. And when

691
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: you look it up, like why did this happen? It

692
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: was just a record label thing. They're like, oh, we're

693
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: paying them by the track, so if we give them

694
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: fewer tracks x, we don't have to pay them as

695
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: many residuals, you know. And what's funny is like now

696
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: the opposite is true. Like um, for example, let's go

697
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: back to the idea of like a hidden track inside

698
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: of a CD, where it used to be. Let's say

699
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: let's let's say there are ten tracks on the album

700
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 1: and one hidden bonus track, so that tenth track would

701
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: be a song, long gap and then another song, So

702
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: eleven songs, ten physical tracks. In today's modern streaming age, basically,

703
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: they've gotten they've they've more or less gotten rid of that.

704
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: Now whenever I see something that used to have a

705
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: hidden track, it's just chopped off and turned into a

706
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: bonus track, because the opposite is true now. Now the

707
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: record label gets paid by these streaming services for every

708
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: single individual track, so they want as many tracks as possible.

709
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: If they can, they'll cut up and do a hundred tracks,

710
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: you know, And it's it's just interesting that that, like

711
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: the opposite is true of the record label wanting more money.

712
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: They used to force you to put it in as

713
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: few tracks as possible, and now they're forcing you to

714
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: cut it into as many tracks as possible, and it's just,

715
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna keep flip flopping forever until I

716
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: don't know, until business people don't want money. So it's me. Yeah.

717
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: So there are plenty of examples that that you can

718
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: point to where if if nothing else they do the

719
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: whole just throw an extra hidden song there at the end,

720
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: after some some blink blink space, you know, a little quiet,

721
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: and then something else pops up. And and sometimes it

722
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 1: was clearly they were trying to be cheeky, and maybe

723
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: it was some sort of a track that was a

724
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: little cruder or a little little dumber or supposed to

725
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: be cryptic. And other times it was like, I think

726
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: I had a Natalie Merchant album that just had a

727
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: really neat folk song at the very end of things,

728
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: and there's not really neat. I don't know if there's

729
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,959
Speaker 1: any logical reason to have this be a hidden track,

730
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: but it was. It was there hidden um. But but yeah,

731
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: nowadays you pull up the same albums, and I guess

732
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: sometimes they're still gonna keep that together, but a lot

733
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: of times the hidden track is just gonna be listed there. Right. Look,

734
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: I'm not working for Jack Whites'. I'm not getting paid

735
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: for every time I meant in the Lazaretto Ultra LP.

736
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna bring up one more time because get this.

737
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: These are a couple of examples of hidden tracks that

738
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: blow my mind. He hid tracks underneath the paper labels

739
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: on the record itself, and also he put them with

740
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: two different um speeds revolutions per minute than the record itself.

741
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: The record itself is thirty three and a third. Underneath

742
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: one paper label it's seventy eight RPM, and then underneath

743
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: the other one is forty five. So on this one

744
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: record it has three different rpm s. It's wild, And

745
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: the way it works basically is that he did imprint

746
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: a song on traditional grooves under you know, in that

747
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: center space which reserved for the label, and then when

748
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: you do the actual pressing pressing, what happens is that

749
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: the label itself just kind of gets sucked into it

750
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: a little bit, so the sound quality is not that great.

751
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: And I guess, if you really wanted to you could

752
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: like remove the label, you could like tear it off,

753
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: but you can't. It's possible just to play it direct

754
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: clearly through the label. You just place your needle directly

755
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 1: on top of that paper label and it will play

756
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: the song that's underneath. Oh my goodness. Once again, not

757
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 1: an ad for Jack White. I like him, but he's

758
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: not paying me. All right. Well, there may be some

759
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: more examples of of hidden songs and tracks from well,

760
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: perhaps from vinyl, but but certainly maybe some more examples

761
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: from the c D age that folks can mention I

762
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: guess without even getting into it much. There also is

763
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: that that late c D period. I guess it's kind

764
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: of late CD period where you also have CDs that

765
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: can be placed inside in your computer's disk drive, so

766
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: you can go to some sort of crappy website or

767
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: some sort of like a visual thing that lines up

768
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: with the album. But I don't know if that has

769
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: Jack White come back around to that. No, I think

770
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: he's he's he's mostly an analog guy. I don't think

771
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: he is hiding you know, PC wallpapers on any of

772
00:39:52,360 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: his records yet. Now there is another really interesting area

773
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: that that that some of you may be thinking of already.

774
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: And this gets into the idea of having images hidden,

775
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: not not as a PC wallpaper, not as something that's

776
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: in the liner notes for the album or anything like that,

777
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: but actually in the sound data itself. Uh. And the

778
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: idea here is that, yeah, you'll have something in the

779
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: sound data that if you run it through a spectrogram

780
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: editor and synthesizer, you can produce an image, um, the

781
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: the image that was encoded as music or encoded as

782
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: sound anyway inside of a musical piece or inside of

783
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: an album. These are absolutely stunning to me. I I

784
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: do this stuff every day, and in fact, because you

785
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: know the programs that you use to look at these

786
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: images that they're the programs I used to add at

787
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: these shows. You know. That's that's that's that's just part

788
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: of my repertoire. And I have actually looked into creating

789
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: these myself, and I'm still in awe even though I

790
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: know how they do. It's it's ridiculous. I poof the

791
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: most famous example of this, I think, or well, it's

792
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: one of the most famous examples, and in some circles,

793
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: the most famous example, and this is the one that's

794
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: mentioned in that that paper from from Wine, Old Griffiths

795
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: and Cunningham Window Liquor by a f X twin. If

796
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: you run this one particular part of the song the

797
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: sound through this system, you of course get to see

798
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: Richard James, that's APEX twin. You get to see his

799
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: his grinning face. It's it's amazing because first of all,

800
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: it looks even spookier than it always looks. You know,

801
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: Richard D. James is always doing some kind of spooky

802
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: thing with his face, whether it's turning it into a

803
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: mask and putting on a child or whatever. But um man,

804
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: oh man, it's it's it's so fascinating. It too because

805
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: like you know, uh, if you think about these these programs,

806
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: what they're doing is they're showing you, you know, the

807
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: visualization of the audio waves. So the way you put

808
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: the images in there is you reverse engineers. You create

809
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: the image first, and then you basically determine what those

810
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: sounds would need to be to create that image, and

811
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: then you can just basically put it in your song

812
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 1: and boom, you've got it. But it's so funny because

813
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: every example of this I've seen, it's very obvious that

814
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: something strange is going on in the audio because this

815
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: is not a typical wave. It's a picture of Richard

816
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: James face. Yeah, it's not just a case where oh yeah,

817
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: that's if you play this back with satanic message, like

818
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: it's clear that something is there, and then when you

819
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: when you run it through, you can see the artist's

820
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: face or in the case of a particular track from

821
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: Venetian Snares, that's the moniker of Aaron funk Um. There's

822
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,439
Speaker 1: a picture of his cat that when I found very

823
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 1: very sweet, of course, um in part because I wasn't

824
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: familiar with it. I was familiar with the Aphex twin example,

825
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: and when I heard there was a Venetian Snares, when

826
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know what this image is

827
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: going to be, but it's is just a cat. Yeah,

828
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: it's nice, it's uh, it's it's a fun way to

829
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: do this. And I think I particularly like these two.

830
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: It reminds me of um, I've seen people in the

831
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: olden days when they were computer programmers in the deep past.

832
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: Not not not um, not in the contemporary sense, but

833
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: the way that you're actually like fooling around like microchips,

834
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: like that old style of computer programmer, the computer programs

835
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: would write little messages to one another on side the

836
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: chips when they put them in computers, than when years

837
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: later you come across something and it has something written

838
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: on it that no one would read except another programmer.

839
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: Who who is you know, fiddling around with this machine?

840
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: And from what I understand, people who write code these

841
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 1: days often do a similar thing. So I think this

842
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: kind of hidden message in a song very much is

843
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 1: like one audio producer talking to another audio producer going like, hey,

844
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: look in this funny and it's like, yeah, it is

845
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: a good job. There's at least one more really good

846
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: example of this, and this might be in some sort

847
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: of This might be the most famous example, um, depending

848
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: on where you're coming from. But the two thousand seven

849
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: nine Inch Nails album Year Zero, which which I think

850
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: is a great album. Occasionally play this one agreed today. Yeah,

851
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: it has I think two different spectagrams. I was only

852
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: familiar with the first one, but the spectrogram at the

853
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: end of the track My Violent Heart, and it's a

854
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: like a hand reaching down from the sky, which is

855
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: also a theme of the the cover for the album.

856
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine how many of these are

857
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 1: unseen in the world, because I think even more so

858
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: than um oh a hidden song on a record or

859
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: a hidden song on our CD, the vast majority of

860
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: people will never run their audio through through a spectrogram.

861
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 1: It's never going to happen. So unless you are a

862
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: person you know who has that background and you think

863
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: you hear something and you happen to upload it in

864
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: and look at it, I bet there's a lot of

865
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: hidden stuff that's never been seen before. Now there's one

866
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: more example that's brought up, and that is um this

867
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: idea of of black middies, which is not something I

868
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: was familiar with, but it's brought up in this paper

869
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: about Easter eggs and music. And these are apparently midi

870
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: files that contain an absurd amount of data. They when

871
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: played back in a program, can produce patterns when they

872
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: cause the program to fail. And I'm not sure I

873
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 1: completely understand this one, but it's still interesting. There's still

874
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 1: something about it almost sounds like let's take the music

875
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: and like crash it and uh and in doing so

876
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: we'll create will create these uh, these visuals. So the

877
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: idea of the black midi is pretty interesting too because

878
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: it uh it ties into a much older idea, which is,

879
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: we as human beings, are limited by what we can

880
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: do with our hands. It's difficult for us to go

881
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: beyond what is physically possible. We we we we have

882
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: two hands for the most part, ten fingers for the

883
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: most part. This is what we can do. Let's say,

884
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: on a piano, A piano can only do what the

885
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: human being can do. Maybe you can add other person,

886
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: but other than that, we're We're just human beings. So

887
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: back in the days when people first started mechanizing musical instruments,

888
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: folks started experimenting with this. One of my favorites. I'm

889
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: gonna get his name wrong because I don't think I've

890
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: ever pronounced it correctly because I've heard it too many ways.

891
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: A guy named Conlin non car o c O N

892
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: l O n n A n c A r r

893
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: O W. He's an experimental musician. Um. Now, one of

894
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 1: the things he did, which which many call him the

895
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: first electronic musician because of this, is he would create

896
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: roles for player pianos, you know, those kind of pianos

897
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: that play themselves. And he was like, oh wait a minute,

898
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: this isn't a human being, this is a machine. I

899
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: can make this thing, do whatever I want. So he

900
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: would do things that he would program for these player

901
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: pianos that were impossible, you know, too many hands, notes,

902
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 1: playing too quickly in succession, you know, just all these things.

903
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: A lot of it was really really fast, and it

904
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: was just it was such like a fascinating idea of like, oh,

905
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to create music that was meant to replicate

906
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: human hands, but I'm gonna make it for for nobody.

907
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,959
Speaker 1: This is this is completely imaginary music that nobody could

908
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: ever play. And so so his music is really fascinating.

909
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: I highly recommend it. Look it up. But that's the

910
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: same idea behind a black midi, which is um if

911
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: folks don't know, a midi file is more or less

912
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: the zeros and ones behind a digital instrument playing music.

913
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: It's a kind of music that's played in most video games, etcetera, etcetera.

914
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: And so if you are playing a piano that turns

915
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: it into midi data, it's documenting it and you know,

916
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: putting all those little pieces in place, so when you

917
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: play it back, it plays it back the exact same way.

918
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: Same thing, Just like with that idea that Canlaon Nakara

919
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: was doing. You just start putting an extra data, things

920
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: that are completely impossible, things that your hands could never do,

921
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: things that there there aren't there isn't enough time, there's

922
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: there aren't enough fingers in the world to ever actually

923
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 1: play this, and it gets to such an enormous degree

924
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: that it's that it's impossible and it breaks so um.

925
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: There's an example of this. I don't know if you

926
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: if you've ever heard about this, but do you know

927
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: the song rush E. I don't. I'm I'm gonna show

928
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 1: this to you. Audience will be right back. WHOA that

929
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: that was something? Uh, it's it started off rather subtle

930
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: and kind of pleasant, and then it got really intense.

931
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: I guess to to to describe this to anyone else

932
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: and watch the video of presentation of this is you

933
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: have a keyboard at the bottom and you have little

934
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: blocks falling and it's kind of like tetris. I guess

935
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: if you have blocks when they reach the bottom, they

936
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: just play the keys that they land on, a bit

937
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: like a guitar hero too. Oh yeah, yeah, like guitar Hero.

938
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 1: And I guess the idea is that early on we're

939
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: seeing things that are very possible with human hands, with

940
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: a human piano player, but then it gets increasingly complex,

941
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: um to the level where no human with even like

942
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: four arms employed this thing. No, I mean, and I

943
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 1: honestly commend the creator of this um I I believe

944
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: this one is created by someone named um sheet music Boss.

945
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,399
Speaker 1: You can find this video online. It's very popular, It's

946
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: been memed to death. It's um gosh, got many many

947
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: millions of views, so check it out if you haven't.

948
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: It is something to see. I really have to commend

949
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: them on like the build of this, because it starts

950
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: off just like mildly impossible, and then like, wow, this

951
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: is really impossible, and by the time you reach the end,

952
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: it's ludicrously impossible, like like like like like the it's

953
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: criss crossing, it's spelling images, it's like it's it's every

954
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 1: key being played simultaneously, and yet it still sounds pretty good,

955
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, they just like orders of magnitude though

956
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: in complexity began to drop on you. I mean in

957
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 1: a way, it's kind of like, yeah, if if Tetris

958
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: suddenly got like like huge leap and difficulty and just overwhelming,

959
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: that feels, I mean, it was a little anxious watching

960
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: and listening to it. So yeah, so this song is

961
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: called rush E. It's a it's very much a meme song. Um,

962
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: there's a long backstory to how this came to be.

963
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 1: It has to do with Mark Apply or the YouTube

964
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: gamer like. It's a long history that I can't go

965
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: into right now. But ultimately it's just a song that's

966
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: so complex that not only is it impossible for humans

967
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: to play, but it's even too complex for some computers

968
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: to handle. And thus it's title of being a black

969
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: Middi that it's basically it's gonna brick your computer. Uh. So,

970
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: so that that that's more or less what a black

971
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: Midi is, and Rushi is perhaps the most famous example

972
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: of a black Midi. Now I've said the words black

973
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: Midi several times, so I would be completely remissed if

974
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: I didn't mention one of my favorite contemporary bands, Black Middy. Uh.

975
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: They've released three albums so far. There two album, hell Fire,

976
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,919
Speaker 1: is in contention for one of my favorite albums the year.

977
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: And I assume they picked their band name because their

978
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: sound is very maximalist, it's very busy, it's very complex,

979
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: and it's very intricate. So I'm sure they picked their

980
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: band name for that purpose, but a wonderful group. I

981
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: highly recommend people check out hell Fire, one of the

982
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: best album two I promise you need. Let's check that

983
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: out now. Going in the entirely opposite direction from like

984
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: PC crashing um complexity, there's another just one last topic

985
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: to to touch on here and this, but this is

986
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: by no means an exhaustive list of the way that

987
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: stuff can be hidden in music. There may be other examples,

988
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: and feel free to write in about them. But another

989
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: thing you can do is simply take a sound, take

990
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: a song, and either speed it up or stretch it

991
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: out so time stretching is is one worth mentioning here.

992
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: It's a matter of taking sonic information and stretch stretching

993
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: it out so that it is unrecognizable, but in doing

994
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: so perhaps making it interesting, more interesting, certainly more ambient,

995
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: or in the reverse, you know you can you can

996
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: certainly speed things up um. And in all of this

997
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: that reminded me a bit of their various videos that

998
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: will do this online, where they'll take Alvin and the

999
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: Chipmunk songs wit and which, of course you have human

1000
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: voice is sped up to be the voices of of chipmunks.

1001
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: And then if you slow it down enough, the Chipmunks

1002
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: sound like normal adult human beings, and it's everything else

1003
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: that sounds like it's from the Twilight Zone in a

1004
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: realm of monsters. It's very sludgy, very slow, very lethargic,

1005
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,479
Speaker 1: and it's it's very fun to listen to a whole

1006
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: album of these uh slowed down Chipmunks songs. But it's

1007
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: also amazing how much slower and longer these songs are, like,

1008
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, because imagine if you're listening to it at

1009
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 1: its regular speed, it's, what you know, half hour something

1010
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: like that. You slow it down and man, you've got

1011
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: like an hour and a half album, and the Chipmunks album.

1012
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't want to be listening to it that long,

1013
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's fun. It's always fun. Yeah, it's

1014
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: um listening to too much audio sped up or slowed down.

1015
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: I find it kind of It was messing with me

1016
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: after a while, Like if I'm queueing an episode and

1017
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: I have sped up too much and I feel like

1018
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: I have to walk outside a little bit afterwards. Now

1019
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: when I'm editing these episodes, a little peek behind the

1020
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: curtain for our listeners. UH. Quite often I'll do it

1021
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: at either plus twenty five percent plus fifty and on

1022
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: rare occasions up to plus one percent. So I'm listening

1023
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,479
Speaker 1: at two x speed. And um, usually it does doesn't

1024
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: last too long because I'll have to stop to make

1025
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: edits and stuff. But man, oh man, I am very

1026
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 1: familiar with the chipmunk version of Roberts and the chipmunk

1027
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: version of Joe Wow. Point to five is pretty comfortable

1028
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: for me, and I actually, since I don't really like

1029
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: listening to my own voice, I find that if I

1030
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: listened to it at point to five, I feel like

1031
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: I sound better, and maybe I sound like enough like

1032
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: a different person that I can kind of listen to

1033
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: myself more and not judge myself. But when I'm at

1034
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: at at point five, yeah, it's it's it's already a

1035
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 1: little maddening. And I just can't do double time. It's

1036
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: just too much. And yeah, and at a certain point

1037
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 1: for me as an editor, you know, obviously I'm looking

1038
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: for things that I need to you know, synch up

1039
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: or remove or whatever. At a certain point, I can't

1040
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: tell what people are saying anymore, so I have to stop.

1041
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 1: I have to slow it down again. But but Yeah,

1042
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: you can also of course stretch out sounds and and

1043
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: so forth in order to to make music and create

1044
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: novel sounds of Pierre Schaefer made use of time stretch stretching,

1045
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: not so much to include easter eggs or hidden information,

1046
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: but just as a part of the experimentation and music making. Um.

1047
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: I'm not sure offhand if there are notable examples of this,

1048
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: but I but I I feel like I've run across

1049
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: some examples in the past where some drone and ambient

1050
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 1: music creators have used this effect, Like take something really,

1051
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: slow it down, and even if the source material is

1052
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 1: not ambient and drone, you can create an ambient and

1053
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: drone experience from it. Potentially. There there's been a couple

1054
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: of very again we're getting into like kind of like

1055
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 1: meme music at this point. Again, but a very popular

1056
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: example of this was bouncing around the internet a while ago.

1057
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: Someone took the very popular Justin Bieber song Baby, and

1058
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: they slowed it down by eight hundred percent and the

1059
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: results was beautiful. It was very ambi and many people

1060
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,919
Speaker 1: compared it to like a Sugar Ross song, and it's

1061
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: a it's fun to listen to. And then the cool

1062
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: part is is that that kicked off the idea of like, oh,

1063
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: I can do this to anything, you know, And so

1064
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: people just started applying this slow it down by a

1065
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: philosophy to nearly any song and it always has basically

1066
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 1: the same ethereal floaty sugar ross like vibe, which makes

1067
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: me really want to speed up sugar Roast by a

1068
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: hundred percent just to see what that will sound like.

1069
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: But I haven't done that yet. I'm sure someone has

1070
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: on the internet, so I'll have to check that out.

1071
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 1: But but it's fun. I in fact, I came across

1072
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: a m It was a website where they're they're The

1073
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: website's entire purpose was just to slow down audio that

1074
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: you fed into it. That you would feed in something

1075
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: and it would slow down by a percent for you.

1076
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,399
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a fun little trick. I mean, I think,

1077
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: just like all gimmicks, it can be overplayed and kind

1078
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,720
Speaker 1: of loses its creativity. But it's fun. It's fun stuff.

1079
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: It reminds me a bit too, of all this of

1080
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: the the science fiction and satirical ideas that on one hand,

1081
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: Frank Herbert explored a little bit in the Dune books

1082
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: with Samuda music which is a type of music that

1083
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: we would listen to while also doing the drug samuda,

1084
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: and it's like you could only appreciate the music while

1085
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 1: your brain was altered by this drug because of potentially

1086
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: because of the way it slowed down or sped things up.

1087
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: And then also the British satire series Brass Eye from

1088
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: Chris Morris, they had an episode on drugs that was

1089
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: a parody of like anti drug hysteria in the UK,

1090
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 1: and they had a whole bit about this made up

1091
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: drug called cake, and there was a whole bit in

1092
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,919
Speaker 1: there about like this is the music that they listened

1093
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: to while they're on cake, and this is how it

1094
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: sounds to us. But if you're on cake, it sounds

1095
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: like this, and so it's yeah, I can't help but

1096
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 1: bring that up. I literally just read a book about

1097
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: the Pink Floyd debut album, Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

1098
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 1: I just finished it like maybe a day ago, And

1099
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: there's actually a big chunk in there about that too,

1100
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: really really leaning into the idea of like there's an

1101
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: audience here that is willing to put up with a

1102
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 1: fifteen minute song. Most of them are on acid, but

1103
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,919
Speaker 1: there is an audience for this. Can can we can

1104
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: we Pink Floyd pivot from being a single based band

1105
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: into an album based band where we can have those

1106
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: fifteen minute songs and this kind of like internal debate

1107
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: about that, and of course then you get into like

1108
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: all the sit Barrett stuff and Roger Waters and it

1109
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: goes onto a whole other world. But but hey, if

1110
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: you enjoy this kind of talk, you should tun an

1111
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: Interesting Needles Record Club. Yeah yeah, yeah, tell everybody where

1112
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: they can find Rusty Needles Record Club. Se It's a

1113
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: podcast that I host weekly, new episode every Friday. I'm

1114
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: a big old music nerd and I just need an

1115
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: outlet for talking about music. And uh, thankfully Robert and

1116
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: Joe are nice enough to have me on here to

1117
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: do it every once in a while. But if you

1118
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: need it all the time, you look up any place

1119
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: where you find your podcasts Rusty Needles Record Club, and

1120
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: you'll find me, my friends, my co hosts, and we

1121
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: talk about music. It's like a book club, but for

1122
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: music instead, and each episode is a different album. And

1123
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: it's a great way to uh, you know, have a

1124
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: surrogate music friend. It's a great way to be introduced

1125
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: to new music, and it's a great way just to

1126
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: kind of get some good recommendations. It's fun because, in particular,

1127
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: a lot of the episodes we do are chosen by

1128
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 1: our listeners. People were right in say hey, you gotta

1129
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: listen to this, and then that becomes the album of

1130
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: that week. So it's it's fun. It's just a great

1131
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: way to open yourself up to the wide spectrum of

1132
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: music in the world. Awesome, All right, Well we're gonna

1133
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: go and close it out here. These two episodes on

1134
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: on hidden material and music, Easter eggs and music and

1135
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: so forth. But yeah, we'd love to hear from everyone

1136
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: out there. If you have thoughts on the techniques that

1137
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: we discussed in these episodes, if you have thoughts on

1138
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: the specific examples that we discussed, and if you have

1139
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: new examples or new techniques that come to mind, let

1140
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: us know we'd love to hear from you. A reminder

1141
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a science podcast,

1142
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: and our core episodes published on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On

1143
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: Monday's we do listener mail, on Wednesday's we do a

1144
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: short form artifact or monster effect, and on Friday's we

1145
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: do weird How cinema. That's our time to set aside

1146
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: most serious concerns and just talk about a weird film.

1147
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to Seth for not only co hosting

1148
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: these two episodes, but also producing Stuff to Blow Your

1149
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: Mind and Weird How Cinema in general, And if you

1150
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: want to reach out to us, you can email us

1151
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

1152
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio.

1153
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart

1154
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your

1155
00:59:48,880 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: favorite shows. Please law Report PROPA