1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Were these young YouTube stars 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: tortured and abused to get them to perform for the camera. 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: Those are the shocking claims being made against their adoptive mom, 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: A woman who adopted seven children and used them to 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: make social media videos, is now under arrest. The seven 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: kids are the stars of a popular YouTube channel called 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: Fantastic Adventures. The channel has over two hundred and fifty 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: million views. In this episode, one boy does a mission 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: impossible style stunt to grab cookies off the kitchen counter, 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: but police say behind the scenes the youngsters were being 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: subjected to a nightmare of abuse. Michelle Hackney, who adopted 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: all seven kids, allegedly sprayed them with pepper spray, beat 13 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: them with a belt or clothes hanger, and locked them 14 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: in a closet for days at a time. She also 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: allegedly withheld food than water if they didn't recall their lines. 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: Were performers directed for the YouTube channel and the police 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: paperwork it says they were malnourished. It looks like they 18 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,639 Speaker 1: weren't sleepy. You are hearing or from an inside edition? 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: Did Mommy starve, beat, lock up, pepper spray her seven 20 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: adopted children, forcing them to perform in YouTube videos that 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: got millions of views and millions of dollars. I'm Nancy Grace, 22 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: this ascribe stories. Thank you for being with us. If 23 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: this is true, she can rot in hell. I'll just 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: start with that. Let's take a listen to these children 25 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: a clip from YouTube. Hi, guys, I'm Elijah and I'm 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: Summer and we're from Fantastic Adventures and we've been searching 27 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: and searching for stream joys TVs out and we finally 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: found it. Even iCal always think they're good at a 29 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: sneak attack, but we're better and we're going to film 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: it to prove it. Let's do it. Are you ready 31 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: to do this? I want to get children. Yeah, try 32 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: to go to the front door. You are hearing the 33 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: sound of these seven adopted children being forced to perform 34 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: in YouTube videos to get millions of views and millions 35 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: of dollars right in mommy's pocket right now. A woman 36 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: accused of abusing seven adopted children. Why to force them 37 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: to perform in highly lucrative YouTube videos? Straight out to 38 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor. What is 39 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: her possible defense? Her defense can be in my view 40 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: insanity and insanity and insanity because it's one of the 41 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: meanest things I have ever heard a parent doing to 42 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: hum or his child or children. This is outrageous, it's unbelievable, 43 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: and you can't make this stuff pop and there is 44 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: no defense. Well, okay, Daryl Cohen, that's what you do 45 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: for a living. You take the money and hold your 46 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: nose and you come up with some crazy story to 47 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: tell a Juri and hope it works with me. Aske 48 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: you Wilcott judge and lawyer anchor as well. You can 49 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: find her an ask you Wilcott dot com Ashley, you 50 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: see abuse on children all the time, what do you 51 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: make of it. I don't think it's an insanity defense. 52 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: I think she's playing mean and it's horrific abuse. A 53 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: couple of things. Number one, I think somebody knew of 54 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: it or suspected it before it actually got reported. So 55 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: a reminder to anybody who believes that a child's being abused, 56 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: please report it be I see it all the time, 57 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: and I see it by both biological parents adoptive parents. 58 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: It's really horrific, and I wish in retrospect there'd been 59 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: a better job of looking at her as a potential 60 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: adoptive parents. You know, I don't know how that process works. 61 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: Seemingly they just farmed children out to anybody that will 62 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: take them. And not only that, it seems that there 63 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: are thousands of thousands of children that need adopt to 64 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: parents that can't get them. Police say behind the camera 65 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: life for these seven children was torture. It was basically 66 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: seeing or be tortured. They were starved, they were locked 67 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: in a closet for days, beaten. The children told cops 68 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: they had not gone to school in years in order 69 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: to perform on Hackney's YouTube channel instead. Okay, back to you, 70 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, you're a juvenile judge. How do you just 71 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: not go to school? And you know what, I know 72 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: this is a completely different story, but I was reading 73 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: about the cheating scandal going on right now and the 74 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: full House and Fuller House star Laurie Laughlin's daughter is 75 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: on YouTube saying I never go to school. I don't 76 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: even know if they know that I'm even in client 77 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: into class. I don't even know if they miss me. 78 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: How does that happen? These children? The Hackney children were 79 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: out of school performing for Mommy on YouTube and nobody 80 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: seemed to notice. Well, so here's the problem I have, 81 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: and that is in the state of Georgia. Every state's different. 82 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: I don't know specifically for that state, but parents obviously 83 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: can elect to homeschool their children, at least in Georgia. 84 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: All that requires zancy. Keep this in mind, as a 85 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: parent going to the school and signing a piece of 86 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: paper that says I'm going to hold a school my child, 87 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: there's no follow up, there's no agency that's responsible for 88 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: ensuring that's actually happened. So in states it can be 89 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: very easy to say I'm homeschooling my children where you 90 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: really are not. Forced baths and ice stress positions some 91 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: of mom's favorite methods to force the children to do 92 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: as she wished to. Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, author 93 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet forcing them to eat hot 94 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: foods with pepper sauce, and it's spraying them with pepper spray. 95 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: Exactly what does being sprayed in the face with pepper 96 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: spray due to you? Well, pepper spray is made from 97 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: an extract called kept sasan nancy and it's it comes 98 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: from pepper plants itself from chilies. If you'll think about 99 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: that anybody that's ever eaten something that's really really hot, 100 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: intensely hot, and on the exterior of the body. It's 101 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: a skin irritant. I mean, we use this to quell 102 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: riots with, right. People carry it on their key chains 103 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: in order to prevent being mugged. It is an agent 104 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: to do harm with. And What's one of the really 105 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: striking things about this that I've picked up on this case. 106 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: Along the way, she would go to hypersensitive areas of 107 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: the body, allegedly and spray these children in their genital areas, 108 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: which in particular causes a tremendous irritation. And they weren't 109 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: receiving any kind of relief from this Nancy. As a 110 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: matter of fact, she would put them in eyes baths 111 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: And this is a horrible set of circumstances, not to mention, 112 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: you know, peripheral beating that was going on, starvation and 113 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: all these other things. It sounds like a complete house 114 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: of horror. Let's take another Listen to these children being 115 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: forced to perform on YouTube. Whoa slow down that he 116 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: is with a gingerbread house, not your face? Why it's 117 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: a fine Do you remember what happened last time when 118 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: you had too much sugar. Yeah. The kids told police 119 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: they were thirsty and hungry. According to documents bothered by prosecutors, 120 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: they gave one the little boys a bottle of water, 121 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: and in a matter of twenty minutes, he drank three 122 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,679 Speaker 1: bottles of water, looking like he hasn't had water in days. 123 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: When a police officer gave one child a bag of chips, 124 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: she was afraid to eat it because she did not 125 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: want her mother to smell chips on her breath. The 126 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: documents say. Police in Maricopa, Arizona, showed up at the 127 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: house after being contacted by the mother's nineteen year old 128 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: biological daughter, Megan, who was apparently upset at seeing her 129 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: siblings mistreated. Megan, who is now being hailed a hero, 130 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: is seen here in the mission Impossible Skit? Are you 131 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: trying to steal my cookies? The nineteen year old daughter 132 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: went to police and said, listen, this is what's happening 133 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: inside of this house. Michelle Hackney has been charged with 134 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: child abuse and unlawful imprisonment. Her adult sons were also 135 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: arrested charged with failing to report the abuse of a minor. 136 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: Michelle Hackney has been using extreme disciplinary actions against the children. 137 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: She says the only form of punishment she used was 138 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: making the kids stand in the corner, along with spanking 139 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: and grounding them. You are hearing or from an inside 140 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: edition that you just heard. Why is it that food 141 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: so often is used as a weapon. We are talking 142 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: about a shocking story that has just hit the headlines. 143 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: A mother, if you can imagine her getting that honor, 144 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: accused of starving, beating, locking up, pepper spraying her seven 145 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: adopted children, forcing them to perform in YouTube videos that 146 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: got millions of views and millions of dollars in mommy's pocket. 147 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: To ask you, Wilcot at Ashy Wilcot dot com, how 148 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: did the YouTube performances translate into money? How it happens 149 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: is YouTube, you know, has the ads when anybody watches YouTube, 150 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: and money is made from those ads from advertisements. So 151 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: two point five was the total amount made because of 152 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: her channel on YouTube? She received or kept one point 153 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: two million of that YouTube got one point three million 154 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: of that. Wow, and guess what the YouTube videos are 155 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: still active? Daryl Cohen, why don't they take that down? 156 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: It's beyond belief that they don't take it down. I 157 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 1: did know this when they're no longer monetizing them. At 158 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: least YouTube did twenty percent of what they should do. 159 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: They should take those videos down immediately and and just 160 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: blank out what that channel was. It's outrageous and YouTube 161 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: and my view should be prosecuted. If they can't be 162 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: prosecuted criminally under Nevada laws, then they ought to be 163 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: sued under divida laws by the Attorney General, whoever he 164 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: or she may be in Nevada. We also know that 165 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: Hackney's adult sons are also charged in this, which brings 166 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: me to another issue. To Karen Stark, psychologist at Karen 167 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: St'm joining us from Manhattan today. Karen, it always amazes 168 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: me when you've got one evildoer that would be the mother, 169 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: Michelle Hackney, but then other people go along with it. 170 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,239 Speaker 1: They go along with pepper spraying children in their genitals, 171 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: locking them for hours and hours in a dark closet, 172 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: starving them, beating them, keeping them out of school. She 173 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: has adult children, sons, Ryan Hackney and Logan Hackney, and 174 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: they went along with it. According to police, they were 175 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: all in on it. I want to tell you something, Nancy. 176 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: As much as we dislike hearing it, there's everyone seems 177 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: to know. And you might consider this that when you 178 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: have abuse in the family, it leads to more abuse. 179 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: And what I'm thinking here is that these boys themselves 180 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 1: were subjected to abuse, and so once that happens, you 181 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: begin to get a charge yourself that is continuing that abuse. 182 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: And I think that's what happened in this case. Although 183 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: they knew it was wrong, they are adults. They're adults. 184 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: I don't care what happened to them. You may not 185 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: like it, but it becomes part of you. That may 186 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: be true they maybe they were, but that does not 187 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: excuse what is happening right now. We are learning that 188 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: Michelle Hackney runs a YouTube channel with about a million 189 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: plus subscribers called Fantastic Adventures. Her seven adopted children have 190 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: adventures and play games. She was arrested the allegedly locking 191 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: them in a closet for days on end without food, water, 192 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: or bathroom, physically beating them. Her two adult biological sons 193 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: also arrested. Her biological adult daughter is the one that 194 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: finally reported This YouTube terminated the channel's monetization, which means 195 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: they took away the ads, but they're still there. It's 196 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: the irony to Ashley Wilcott is the YouTube page is 197 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: called fantastic right. This just makes me throw up for 198 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: these kids. They have been so physically mentally abused by 199 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: this woman who simply was using them for her financial 200 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: gain and adventures. Think about the adventures of what she's 201 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: done to them. Here's what makes me sad about children 202 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: her abused. They are groomed and physically abused to the 203 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:46,359 Speaker 1: extent that they are not capable mentally of telling or disclosing. 204 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: Think about it. If they had been able to mentally, 205 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: they could have said on a YouTube video, this is 206 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: what mom's done to me, really quickly, and if she 207 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: left it up, people could have seen it. But unfortunately, 208 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: child abuse effects prey and development. These children are so 209 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: beaten down they don't disclose, which is typical. What we're 210 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: learning is this, millions of people watched these little children 211 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: on YouTube. Offscreen, mommy was beating and starving them. Say 212 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: police on camera, they cast spells, they have nerf wars. 213 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: They go on to quote cookie capture mission like we 214 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: were saying earlier, like mission impossible, suspending themselves over a 215 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: granite kitchen countertop and a beautiful suburban home to swipe 216 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: cookies made by their sisters. They appear in comedy series 217 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: after comedy series called Fantastic Adventures on YouTube, hundreds of 218 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: millions of views. But when the camera wasn't rolling, those 219 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: seven children, all adopted, were starved, locked in a closet 220 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: on a bare tile floor, pepper sprayed, beaten with belts, brushes, hangers, 221 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: forced to take ice baths, required to stand with their 222 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: arms raised over their heads from dawn until midnight, and 223 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: on more than one occasion, at least one of the 224 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: boys actually bled when mommy pinched his penis with her fingernails. 225 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine her doing that. This is Michelle Hackney. 226 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: She goes by a middle name, her maiden name sometimes Hobson. 227 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: Who runs it. It's gotten over two hundred and fifty 228 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: million views, and it started all the way back in 229 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: twenty twelve with ten minute videos of the children doing 230 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: make belief scenarios, from pretending their zombies just siders to 231 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: making s'mores and all new videos appear each month, and 232 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: at the end children face the cab camera and ask 233 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: viewers to like the videos and subscribe. What's so amazing 234 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: to me is the adult son's logan and Ryan went 235 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: along with it. The biosister is the one who called police. Alan. 236 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: Do you know all about the internet? How did it 237 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: get so many views? Well, one way I know is 238 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: because I've got grandkids ages four and five, and for 239 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: Christmas we got them the Amazon tablets and it has 240 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: YouTube on it. The algorithm that YouTube uses when a 241 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: kid is watching one video, the next one can automatically 242 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: feed up that is a similar video. And if it 243 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: has a lot of subscribers, that algorithm is going to 244 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: serve these up. So parents may not even know that 245 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: their kids are watching these videos from these kids. It 246 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: just comes up. So you might want to check and 247 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: you might want to find out what your kids are watching. 248 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: Our friends at ABC thirteen listen. Michelle Hackney is a 249 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: mother to seven adopted children and three biological kids. Her 250 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: new home is the Pinell County Jail, and neighbors have 251 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: a different title for her. She's a monster. Her mother's 252 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: role is to nurture and love and care, and so 253 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: she's not a mother. Instead of nurturing, police say Hackney physically, mentally, 254 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: and sexually abused her kids. All of it coming to 255 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: light after a tip from Hackney's older biological daughter. Officers 256 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: found kids who they say had not had food or 257 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: water in days. The kids told police their adopted mother 258 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: would lock them in closets for days, no bathroom, nothing 259 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: to eat, and that she would pepper spray them from 260 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: head to toe, make them take ice baths, beat them 261 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: with objects, physically abuse their genitals, and the list goes on. 262 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: And I just don't know what is wrong with people, 263 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: Why you would do that to a child. Kids told 264 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: detectives much of the abuse was punishment related to Hackney's 265 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: YouTube channel. The kids say they were pulled from school 266 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: to act in the successful videos. Hackney's older biological sons 267 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: were in them too. They're now with their mother behind 268 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: bars for failing to report the abuse. And I saw 269 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: in her videos that there the causet under the stairs 270 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: has key locks on both sides, so they were clearly 271 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: probably locked under the stairs. Neighbors had no idea what 272 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: was happening. We've never seen them outside, which is odd 273 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: because of videos are shown them outside. A source close 274 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: to the investigation says DCS had been called to the 275 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: home more than five times. DCS told ABC fifteen they 276 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: quote can't comment due to confidentiality loss. They now have 277 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: custody of Hackneys seven adopted kids Climb Stories with Nancy Grace. 278 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: This is hidden camera video of the moment that this 279 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: mom arrested for child abuse, Elizabeth Malone injecting her disabled 280 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: son with her own blood as he lay gravely ill 281 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: at a Nova Fairfax hospital. These are some of the 282 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: syringes she used to put blood in the five year 283 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: old track tube in central iv Line, triggering a medical 284 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: emergency as doctors and nurses soon come rushing in. Later. 285 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: In this police interview, Malone starts by denying she did 286 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: anything to her boy, only finally admitting it tearfully when 287 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: detectives tell her they have video. I don't want to 288 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: causing hart I did, I did? Wow, she changed her tune. 289 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: Mommy admitting to poisoning her disabled son just five years old. 290 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: This is mommy Elizabeth Malone. Oh my stars. I want 291 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: to go straight out to Cheryl McCollum, director of the 292 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, what's your understanding regarding what happened? 293 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: This mom admitting to poisoning her disabled five year old son. 294 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: Of course said she didn't do anything, you know what 295 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: involved with anything? And then of course she breaks down 296 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: admits she did inject her own blood into him. And 297 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: if he's having all these attacks and he's having all 298 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: these you know issues where he's coding, basically he's getting 299 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: attention from doctors. So it's this weird, twisted six lunchhousing 300 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: situation where she's just trying to get attention. So to 301 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: you joining me, Doctor Bethany Marshall, renounced California's psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany. 302 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: The mom first said she did not want to harm 303 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: her son, But what can you tell us about what 304 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: her mindset must have been. I think the mindset must 305 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: have been excitement, an obsessional preoccupation with her child at 306 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: some level, thinking about the rewards she's going to get 307 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: from the hospital system, either a doctor patting her on 308 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: the back, or hours spent in the hospital where it 309 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: feels like it's safe onclives towards her, maybe some financial reward, 310 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: sympathy from the community. I could tell you that most 311 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: victims of Munchhausen by proxy are small children, because this 312 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: is a very vulnerable population. Most perpetrators are their mothers 313 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: or their caregivers, and often these mothers know a lot 314 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: about the healthcare system. They know how to read and 315 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: alter test results. They know how to get hold of doctors, 316 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: they know how to do all of this, and so 317 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: they use that to exploit the child to get the 318 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: attention of the hospital. But I can tell you back 319 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: to your question. When she was injecting this five year 320 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: old with her blood, she was obsessed and excited. You know, 321 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: you never failed to freak me out, Bethany, no offense. 322 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: I hope you take that in a loving and caring way. 323 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: But I just want to address something Dr Bethany just said. 324 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: A mental disorder is called Munchhausen syndrome. Munchhausen disease is 325 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: named after Baron von Munchhausen. And what it is is 326 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: when you pretend that you have ailments, serious ailments, in 327 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: order to get sympathy and attention. You're desperate for attention. Now, 328 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: Munchhausen by proxy is when you arrange you stage for 329 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: someone else's Bethany pointed out, typically a child to have 330 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: all these horrible ailments. You're the puppet master, pulling the strings, 331 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: and then you get vicarious gratification because your child is 332 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: so desperately ill. And I guess, Bethany, you're saying the 333 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: payoff is the attention and you get from doctors in family. Oh, 334 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: you're such a good mom. How do you do it? 335 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: I'm praying for you when you're the one causing the 336 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: element to start with. That's right, you get the attention 337 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: of the doctors in the hospitals. But I think so 338 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 1: often there's some kind of financial reward. I don't know 339 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: what it would be in this case. Maybe maybe the 340 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: reward is even having a free place to stay or 341 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: being able to eat in the cafeteria. So, Nancy, we 342 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: also sometimes on your show talk about malingering. Malingering is 343 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: when somebody makes up an illness in order to avoid 344 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: some dreaded something that they have to pay. They need 345 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: to want to get out of military service, or they 346 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: want to get a paycheck, or they make up their 347 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: own symptoms. That's munchildsome or malingering, and in this case, 348 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: they're making up the child symptoms. In order to do that, 349 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: you must really see your child as a pawn, somebody 350 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: about whom you have no intrinsic love or care, Somebody 351 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: you really don't even care if they're going to die. 352 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: That's how desperate you are for attention that you will 353 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: completely sacrifice your child life for your own benefit to 354 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: Kenya Johnson joining me right now, renowned Atlanta felony prosecutor, Kenya, 355 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Question to you, munchhousing 356 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: or munch housing by proxy. True, it is a sort 357 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: of let me just say, mental issue, but it does 358 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: not rise to insanity. In other words, and our jurispruduced system, 359 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: which we brought over from Great Britain. Our common law 360 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: insanity typically is under the old McNaughton rule, which is 361 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: did you know right from wrong at the time of 362 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: the incident, And by the fact that she denied it 363 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: immediately she knew it was wrong. We know she knew 364 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: it was wrong. She did it in seek she denied 365 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: it because she knew it was wrong. She's not insane 366 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: under our legal standard if she Kenya, No, she's not insane. 367 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: And it is not a legal defense for the criminal 368 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: charges that could result from this illness from from the behavior. 369 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: We're automatically in this case talking about child abuse, reckless endangerment, 370 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: cruety the children, reckless conduct, and even battery as an 371 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: offensive touching. So very serious criminal charges can result from this, 372 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,719 Speaker 1: and the mother or the caregiver who is doing this 373 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: offensive behavior cannot claim insanity, cannot claim that they were 374 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: not aware of what they were doing or if the 375 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: possible outcomes of what they were doing. And so this 376 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: person will be prosecuted just like any other person that 377 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: is a violence offender. So joining right now crimal line 378 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter John Lemley. What do we know 379 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: about this mother, Elizabeth Malone. Well, she is the mother 380 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: of three children in total, and of course, as we've 381 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: been discussing, it was in April of twenty eighteen that 382 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: she brought this then five year old disabled son to 383 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: Inova Fairfax Hospital and this was an eyebrow raiser for 384 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: doctors and nurses there because this was the seventh time 385 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: that they had come in just in a two month span, 386 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: seventh time. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coal Case Researchers, 387 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: did you joining me? That makes me sick? Sick? That 388 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: means seven times this child has been most likely brought 389 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: to the break of illness and then brought to the 390 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: doctors and very well orchestrated by the mother, Devin towm 391 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: in two months, that's nearly every week. I mean, good, Well, 392 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: how many flags do you think you're gonna, you know, 393 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: be waving at that hospital when you come back in there. Plus, 394 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: these doctors and nurses are so used to seeing parents 395 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: that are panicked, that won't answers, that won't their child. Well, 396 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: I bet you she goes in there happy to see 397 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: him again, socializing. You know, her attitude was probably very 398 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: off and wrong, and so she's given herself away, Nancy, 399 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: probably with everything that she did. You know what, Cheryl, 400 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: as much as I appreciate your very deep analysis, and 401 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: I do because you know, I like to know every 402 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: single detail. She's busted, I see, I think of it 403 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: nuts and bolts. Who did it? Can I prove it? 404 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: Do have the right jurisdiction? Can A how fast going 405 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: to strike a jury? Okay, that's just me, mommy, Elizabeth 406 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: Malone admitting to poisoning her disabled son just five years old. 407 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the evidence. We know she's busted 408 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: on video. We know that injecting her own blood of 409 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: her son's nose and mouth, all right, to make the 410 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: doctors rush in there and give her attention. Now, how 411 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: can I prove it? A? I've got the video if 412 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: it gets into evidence, because the video it gives me 413 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: reason to think the defense will be a mental defect. Now, 414 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: how can I prove? See, that's how you win a case. 415 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,239 Speaker 1: You create your case and then you figure out what 416 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: are they gonna say, and then you get prepared to 417 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: shoot it down. So they're gonna say, first I didn't 418 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: do it up. That won't work because we've got a video. 419 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: Now they're gonna say mental defect. She's not insane, isn't 420 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: It's true? John Lmley. This she brought her own blood 421 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: into thespital, into the doctors and a plastic bag. That's 422 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: what you call premeditation. Yeah, she kept it in a 423 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: little overnight bag that she always brought with her. Okay, Cheryl, 424 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: what about that? Well, not only that, Nancy, she's got 425 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: these syringes. Where did she get them? Did she see 426 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: them from the hospital, did she bring them with herself 427 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: or something else. They're gonna have her fingerprints on them. 428 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: They're gonna have her you know, blood on them. They've 429 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: got her left or right. There's no question about that. Well, 430 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: hold on, Jackie Howard here in the studio, cannot contain herself. 431 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: She just blurted out. She did manage to meet herself 432 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: just in time. She stole the syringes from a hospital cart, 433 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: and that can be proved as well. So not only 434 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: do you have her bringing in her blood and a 435 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: plastic baggie, you have her stealing syringes in order to 436 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: affect this ailment. So, Kenya Johnson, my only question left 437 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: now is what will she expect at sentencing. At sentencing, 438 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: she will certainly want some sort of sympathy. But the 439 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: studies have shown that this particular disease uh well can 440 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: actually be cured, but it requires long term counseling and 441 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: uh and and this can come back. So she'll have 442 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: to continue doing this, and she may not ever get 443 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: custody of her child, even once she gets out of jail. 444 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: But initially this is considered as a very violent offense. 445 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: Uh and so why I guess, So, have you ever 446 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: had somebody in jack blood up your nose? I guess 447 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: it is violent, absolutely, And the jury will see the 448 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: list that she went through to try to hide this 449 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: bringing in blood. You're making my head hurt and my 450 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: chest hurts, Kenya because of you. Right now, let me 451 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: look at my fit that my twins might be weares well. 452 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: My pulse is still at sixty two, so apparently I'm 453 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: not that upset going, well, they will look at all 454 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: the lymph that she went through, the high kids, what 455 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,959 Speaker 1: her motivation was, how she acted. They even had to 456 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: put surveillance cameras in the room because they believed that something. 457 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, John Linley, didn't they install surveillance 458 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: in his secret surveillance in the boy's room for a reason? 459 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: Tell me absolutely that was part of the plan hatched 460 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: by the hospital staff and police together. After a nurse 461 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: had spotted a syringe hidden in Malone's sleeve and also 462 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: she found a bloody napkin in the bathroom, so the 463 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: Child Protective Services was notified. They came in secretly installed 464 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: this set of cameras in the boy's room to observe 465 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: what was happening when doctors and nurses were not with him. 466 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: Just within a couple of days, they were much closer 467 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: to answering what was going on with this bizarre bleep. 468 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: The camera captured Malone as she removed a syringe from 469 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: a medical cart, emptied whatever was in it out, and 470 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: then refilled it with at the time an unknown substance 471 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: from her purse. We now know that was the bag 472 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: of blood, and the child immediately suffered a medical emergency. 473 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: When officers rushed to the room, they saw a red 474 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: fluid on multiple surfaces, including on malone herself. Let me 475 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: ask you something. According to doctors, she injected her hospitalized 476 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: five year old son with a substance that nearly made 477 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: him bleed to death from his mouth. But was the 478 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: blood coming from his mouth his blood or his mom's blood? 479 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: That was actually his mom's blood that she had inserted 480 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: there and in his traite tube, his traite tube. Correct. Okay, 481 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: you know what, Kenyan Johnson. I asked you what she 482 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: was going to get it sentencing, and you started talking 483 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: about treatment. I want her to have treatment. I want 484 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: her to have treatment for the next twenty years behind bars. 485 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: That's where I want her to go to, a little 486 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: counseling group. Behind bars. Okay, I do not want her 487 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: out walking around. This child has been the hospital seven times, 488 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: seven times in the last few months. Okay, what will 489 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: she do if she gets out? If you get a 490 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: jury of moms, they will be just as outraged as 491 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: you are at the handlessness of this crime, and and 492 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: she will likely get significant jail times. So, Cheryl McCollum, agassault, 493 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,479 Speaker 1: what are you looking at about twenty years. Do you 494 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,719 Speaker 1: think I think she's looking at twenty years. But I'll 495 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: tell you something else, Nancy, I guarantee on her computer 496 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: she researched what to give that child. Most people have 497 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: no idea that a little bit of their blood injected 498 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: into somebody who's going to make that person code? Most 499 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: people have no understanding of any time. Oh woh woh. 500 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: While you're throwing around words, not everybody knows code makes 501 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: a person code, John Limley, let's put that in regular 502 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: people talk. Code means nearly die. Didn't the blood she 503 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: injected into his body always trigger an infection in a 504 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: very very high fever. I mean she wasn't just staging 505 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: a scene. She was making her son deadly ill. Yes, 506 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: a hospital staff said that in each case, the child 507 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 1: was in danger of dying. Every time I keep asking 508 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: about a sentence, I think it's going to be twenty 509 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: to life on an ag assault. Why don't she play 510 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: guilty too? Limley felony child abuse, one count of child abuse. 511 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: According to Virginia sentence in guidelines, she faces two to 512 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: ten in prison a fine up to one hundred ten years. 513 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: That's it because in our system, Cheryl McCollum. In ten years, 514 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,959 Speaker 1: she might walk. In three years on that she might. 515 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: I mean, this child is five and he's handicap. I 516 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: agree with you. She doesn't need to be out. Listen. 517 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: The mother of three pleading guilty to one count of 518 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: child abuse, her defense attorney telling the judge quote, she 519 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: denies any intention to harm her child. She loves her 520 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: child like any mother. Malone's lawyer further telling the judge 521 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: she didn't like how her son was being cared for, 522 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: so she injected him to get a better response. Prosecutors 523 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: say the injections left the child with infections and high fevers. 524 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: He spent much of February and March of twenty eighteen 525 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: in pediatric ICU doctor's baffled by spontaneous bleeding from his 526 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: nose and mouth. We wait as justice unfolds Nancy Grace 527 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,