1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History class from how 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Polly Frying. Before we 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: start today's actual episode, Holly, do you want to talk 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: about our extremely exciting news? I really do. Uh. We 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: are going to Paris. We are. I know I said 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: that in a way that sounds very chill, but inside 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: my heart is screaming with delight. I also sounded a 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: little like I was asking a question, But we are. 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: And the cool thing is that listeners can come with us, 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: which I'm very excited for. Yes, So if you would 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: like to join us, it is a six night trips 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: in Paris that's June two through the ninth. It is 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: run by a company called Defined Destinations and they put 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: together everything, they handle all of the logistics. Uh. And 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: it's all themed around the French Revolution. But there's a 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: good battle, lints of planned activities and free time. Yeah. 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: Do you want to let people know where they can 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: go if they want to get more info? Yeah, if 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: you come to our website, which is missed in history 21 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: dot com up in the top menu, which if you're 22 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: on mobile, you've got to click the little set of 23 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: bars that does the menu. There's a there's a link 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: that says Paris trip exclamation point. So yes, get your 25 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: passport in order, brush up on your French if you wish, 26 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: and come along with us, because it's going to be 27 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: super fun. But I will say, you do not have 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: to speak French. We have been assured. We have a 29 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: lot of local guides that are handling things, and the 30 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: company has has done trips like this many many times. 31 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: They assured us you don't have to speak French. Just 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: come along for the ride. We'll all have fun. I 33 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: was gonna say, I know, it's kind of a comical 34 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: idea that we're going to France because my French is 35 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: so bad, even though that's the only language I have 36 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: ever formally studied to with real extent. We will have 37 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: people who will help us, yes, navigate the language. I 38 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: am doing a fresher course. But if history, my personal history, 39 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: is any indicator, I will freeze up in the face 40 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: of a native speaker because I'm so scared that they 41 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: will just be like, you idiot, just shut up and 42 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: speak English. Oh yeah, there was There was one time 43 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,839 Speaker 1: early in my career that I needed to call for 44 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: our CEO to approve something, and he was in Quebec. 45 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: And when I called the number I was given, the 46 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: person who answered answered in French. And at that point 47 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: I was much closer to my study of French than 48 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: I am now. And when this person spoke to me 49 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: in French, the only thing I could remember how to 50 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: say was where is the train station? So do not 51 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: let your uncertainty of French discourage you from checking out 52 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: this trip. Again, that's missing history dot Com. Up at 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: the top, there is a link that says Paris trip, 54 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: but in a much more excited way than I just 55 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: said it. Yeah, I'm super excited. It's going to be amazing. 56 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: I can't wait. I'm gonna eat all the things and 57 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: go to all the fabric stores, and I'm gonna probably 58 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: cry a lot, but in a good way, in a 59 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: happy way. Yeah uh. And now we will get into 60 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: today's actual podcast. Today's subject is probably a familiar name 61 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: to a lot of our listeners because it is Sojourner Truth. 62 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: She was a very well known abolitionist and women's rights 63 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: activist in the nineteenth century. In twenties sixteen, it was 64 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: announced that she was one of the five women's rights 65 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: activists who would be on the back of the redesigned 66 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: ten dollar bill because Alexander Hamilton is going to stay 67 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: on the front. Her most famous speech is commonly titled 68 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: Ain't I a Woman? And you can find videos on 69 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: YouTube of women like Carrie Washington and Alice Walker and 70 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: Cecily Tyson performing the speech. Cecily Tyson's portrayal is from 71 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: the unveiling of a bust of Sojourner Truth at the 72 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: US Capital, and that made her the first Black woman 73 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: to be represented in a sculpture at the Capital, So 74 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: she is not an obscure person who we are talking 75 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: about today, and we're going to be talking about this 76 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: part of the speech later. It is a very evocative speech, 77 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: but the version that is the most well known today 78 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: was written down much later by a woman named Francis Gauge, 79 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: and Gauge was inspired by an article in The Atlantic 80 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: written by Harriet Beecher Stowe. And both of these two 81 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: women represented Sojourner Truth way of speaking in a really 82 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: stereotypical way based on what was expected of enslaved people 83 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: from the South. But so journal Truth was not from 84 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: the South. And because ain't ile woman is like literally 85 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: the one thing that a lot of people know about 86 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: Sojourner Truth. She is commonly imagined as an incredibly different 87 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: person from who she actually was, and there is so 88 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: much to talk about about her that even though we're 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: doing two parts on her, it still feels like we 90 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: are scratching the surface. So today we are going to 91 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: talk about her early life and the first years of 92 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: her religious work, during which time she was known as Isabella, 93 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: and then part two we will get into her life 94 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: as Sojourner Truth. And I also wanted to note that 95 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: we have had several listener requests to talk about her, 96 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: including from Alexis Kimberly and Megan. Sojourner Truth was born 97 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: around sevent seven in Ulster County, New York, in the 98 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: Hudson River Valley, and her parents did not name her 99 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: sojournal As Tracy said, her name was Isabella and she 100 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: was nicknamed Belle. Isabella's mother, Elizabeth, was known as Betsy 101 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: to the adults on the estate where they were enslaved, 102 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: and the children called her mau mau bet. I just 103 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: wanted to clarify that the children called Elizabeth mau mao beet. 104 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: They didn't call Isabella that Isabella's father, James, was nicknamed 105 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: bom Free, which was from a low Dutch word for tree. 106 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: That was his nickname because he was very tall and 107 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: he stood very straight. So you will often see so 108 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: Journer Truth's name from birth listed as Isabella bom Free, 109 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: but at the time, her last name was really considered 110 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: to be the surname of who ever owned her. Isabella 111 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: was the second youngest of between ten and twelve children, 112 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: and we don't know the exact number because records were 113 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: not always thorough and because most of her older siblings 114 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: were sold away from the family before she was old 115 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: enough to remember or even meet them. Isabella and her 116 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: family were enslaved by Colonel Johannes Hardenburg, and he and 117 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: the other people around them in Ulster County were all Dutch. 118 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: Isabella grew up speaking only Dutch. The Dutch community in 119 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: the Hudson River Valley was very heavily slave owning. There 120 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: were farms in estates that had very larged enslaved workforces, 121 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: and Colonel Hardenburg was one of the largest slave owners 122 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: in the area. When Colonel Hardenberg died in sevent his son, 123 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: Charles inherited part of the property and all of the 124 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: enslaved workforce. He started operating one of the residences on 125 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: the estate as an inn, so the enslaved women and 126 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: girls who had been working in the Hardenburg household went 127 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: from being a family's domestic staff to essentially working in 128 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: a hotel. Isabella was only about two when all of 129 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: this happened, but as soon as she was able to work, 130 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: she was expected to alongside her mother. Elizabeth taught her 131 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: daughter about what was expected of her, and told her 132 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: about her older siblings, and taught her about God and 133 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: about prayer. Elizabeth described God as a powerful being who 134 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: lived in the sky and that if Isabella ever needed help, 135 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: she should ask him for it. This whole idea of 136 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: having a direct relationship with God and seeking his guidance 137 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: and help would just be an ongoing part of Isabella's 138 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: religious life for as long as she lived. In eighteen 139 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: o six, Charles Hardenburgh died. Isabella was about nine years 140 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: old at that time, and after his death, Isabella's remaining 141 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: family were broken up and sold away from one another. 142 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: And by this point her father was elderly and he 143 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: was considered to be a burden, so her mother was 144 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: freed in order to care for him, even though she 145 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: was also still considered able to work. Zabella, though, was 146 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: sold to the Neely family along with a flock of sheep, 147 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: for a total of one hundred dollars. John Neely Jr. 148 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: Understood a little bit of Dutch, but his wife did 149 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: not speak Dutch at all, so, in addition to not 150 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: speaking the same language, Isabella had only ever lived in 151 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: a Dutch household. She just didn't have any experience at 152 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: all with English culture or English customs, and this led 153 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: to a lot of problems. Isabella didn't understand what was 154 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: expected of her, and she didn't understand what she was 155 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: being asked to do when she was given instructions, and 156 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: the Kneelies would beat her when she didn't understand. Among 157 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: other reasons that they would beat her. On top of 158 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: the beatings, there was just the day to day cruelty. 159 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: As one example, she wasn't given shoes to wear and 160 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: she got severe frostbite on her feet during the winter. 161 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: Isabella was occasionally able to see her father while she 162 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: was enslaved by the Kneelies, and she told him what 163 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: was going on, and one of the customs in the 164 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: New York Dutch community was that enslaved people could try 165 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: to seek out new owners if they wanted a different 166 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: situation than the one that they currently had, So her 167 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: father asked around, focusing on Dutch slave owners who had 168 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: a reputation for being kind. Not long after, Isabella was 169 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: sold again, this time to a man named Martimus Shriver 170 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: who ran a tavern. This was kind of a low 171 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: class establishment, so the work could definitely be dirty and difficult, 172 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: but it was better than being abused by the Kneelies. 173 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: In eighteen ten, at the age of about thirteen, Isabella 174 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: was sold again, this time to a man named John Dumont. 175 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: And while John considered Isabella to be very hard working 176 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: and very intelligent, his wife Elizabeth, who you'll sometimes see 177 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: referred to as Sally. I think that might be some 178 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: name confusion within the household, uh, But Elizabeth didn't like her. 179 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: The same was true of the household's white servants, who 180 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: intentionally tried to get Isabella in trouble. One of her 181 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: jobs was cleaning and peeling and boiling the family's potatoes, 182 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: and one of those serve it's, kept dropping ash into 183 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: the pot while she wasn't looking specifically to get her 184 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: in trouble. In her narrative, Isabella mostly attributes this hostility 185 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: from Elizabeth Dumont as being because she wasn't raised in 186 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: a slave owning family, and she thought her paid servants 187 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: were harder working and more trustworthy. But jealousy almost certainly 188 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: played a role as well. All the photographs that we 189 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: have of Sojourner Truth were taken in the later years 190 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: of her life, but the young Isabella was described as attractive, willowy, 191 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: and very tall. Her narrative talks about this time in 192 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: her life in this way. Quote from this source arose 193 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: a long series of trials in the life of our 194 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: heroine which we must pass over in silence, some from 195 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: motives of delicacy, and others because the relation of them 196 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: might inflict undeserved pain on some now living who Isabel 197 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: remembers only with esteem and love, and as one of 198 00:10:54,960 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: those sentences that says a whole lot without saying anything specific. Yes, 199 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: but it's it's people point back to it when talking 200 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: about like the parentage of her children and and what 201 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: her life was like um with this particular family. In 202 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: eighteen fifteen, Isabella started a relationship with a man named 203 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: Robert who was enslaved at another farm in the area. 204 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: She became pregnant and she had a son named James 205 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: who died as a baby, followed by a daughter named Diana, 206 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: but Robert's owner refused to allow the two of them 207 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: to get married because any children that Isabella had by 208 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: him would become John Dumont's property rather than his. Basically, 209 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: Robert's owner didn't want his property to add to the 210 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: property of someone else. Dumont selected a man from his 211 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: own enslaved workforce for Isabella to marry, a man named Thomas, 212 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: and he was significantly older than she was and had 213 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: been married twice before, and they don't seem to have 214 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: been particularly close. Isabella and Robert continued to see one 215 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: another until they were caught and he was severely punished. 216 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: After marrying Thomas, Isabella had three more children, named Peter, Elizabeth, 217 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: and Sophia which might have been pronounced Sophia. All of 218 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: them were named after her parents and siblings. Isabella was 219 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: enslaved by the Dumont family from eighteen ten until her emancipation, 220 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: which we will get to after a quick sponsor break. 221 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: While she was enslaved by the Dumont family. Isabella worked 222 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: both in the home and in the fields, and also 223 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: acted as a wet nurse for Elizabeth Dumont's children, and 224 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: this gave Isabella thirteen children to look after. There were 225 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: her five and Elizabeth's eight, but she had to put 226 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: Elizabeth's children ahead of her own, and that might have 227 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: been a factor in her son, James's death when he 228 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: was still a baby. Isabella's mother had also died suddenly 229 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: the same year that Isabella was sold to the Dumont's. 230 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: Her father had been one of the Hardenburg family favorites, 231 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: and they had built a cabin for him and made 232 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: some provisions for his care in his later years, but 233 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: he outlived everyone who was expected to look after him, 234 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: and he froze to death sometime after eighteen seventeen. Yeah, 235 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: the expectation was that her mother would just take care 236 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: of him until the end of his life, but then 237 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: she died uh much earlier than than he did, along 238 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: with two other people that had been sort of tasked 239 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: with trying to look after him. That same year, eighteen seventeen, 240 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: the state of New York passed a gradual emancipation law 241 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: that would free people born before seventeen ninety nine after 242 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: a period of ten years. There was a previous law 243 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: that had been passed in seventeen ninety nine that had 244 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: done the same for people who were born after July fourth, seventeen, 245 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: but both Isabella and her father had been born well 246 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: before that, so that law did not apply to either 247 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: of them. Isabella's father lived long and off to know 248 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: that emancipation was coming, but he was also in his 249 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: eighties when the law was passed. He died before his 250 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: own emancipation would come into effect. When the eighteen seventeen 251 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: Gradual Emancipation Law was passed, John Dumont told Isabella that 252 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: if she worked hard, he would free her a year early. 253 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: And for the whole time she had been enslaved on 254 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: the Dumont property, she had worked incredibly hard. Dumont liked 255 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: to say that she could do the work of half 256 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: a dozen other people, and she had also been very 257 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: loyal and very dedicated to him, for example, refusing to 258 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: take food without permission even when she or her children 259 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: desperately needed it, because she wanted to behave always in 260 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: a trustworthy way. Later on in her life, she would 261 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: look back on this attitude with astonishment, but at the 262 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: time she seemed to honestly believe that slavery was the 263 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: natural order of things and that the Dumont's treatment of 264 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: her had earned her loyalty. After he made this promise 265 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: to her, she started working even harder than she had before, 266 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: to the point that she cut off part of a 267 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: finger while trying to work, just to go faster until 268 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: she could get it all done. She kept working in 269 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: spite of that injury, but it did slower down, and 270 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: in eighteen six, as the date of her emancipation her 271 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: year early emancipation became closer, Dumont told her that because 272 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: of the time she had lost to that injured hand, 273 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: she would have to work that last year after all. 274 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: Isabella tried to convince him to keep his promise, pointing 275 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: out that she had kept working the whole time she 276 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: was injured, even though sometimes she'd had to do different 277 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: types of work from before, but Dumont refused to let 278 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: her go. She ultimately decided that she would stay on 279 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: long enough to finish spinning that year's wool, and that 280 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: then she would leave, But she wasn't sure how she 281 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: should make her escape, so she asked God for guidance 282 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: about what to do. It occurred to her that she 283 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: should leave just before dawn, when there would be enough 284 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: light for her to see, but when the household and 285 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: the abers wouldn't really be out of bed yet. When 286 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: she left, she took her youngest child, Sophia with her. 287 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: She went to the home of a man that she 288 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: knew named Levi Row, and he directed her to a 289 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: Quaker family, Isaac and Maria van Wagener. We don't know 290 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: if they pronounced that in the European way of von Wagner, 291 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: who we're going with van Wagener. Uh. They sheltered her 292 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: until Dumont came after her and accused her of running away, 293 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: and she answered, no, I did not run away. I 294 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: walked away by daylight and all because you had promised 295 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: me a year of my time. He kept insisting that 296 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: she returned with him, and she kept refusing to do 297 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: it until Isaac von Wagener offered to buy her freedom 298 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: for twenty dollars plus five dollars for her baby. Dumont agreed, 299 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: and Isabella started going by the name Isabella von Wagener. 300 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: The von Wageners considered her to be free although she 301 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: was working off the debt that had been incurred by 302 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: buying that freedom, and not long after she began living 303 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: with the von Wageners, Isabella learned that her son, Peter, 304 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: who John Dumont had sold earlier in the year, had 305 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: been taken out of state. It was illegal in New 306 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: York to sell enslaved people out of state, but Peter 307 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: had changed hands a couple of times after being sold 308 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: and was taken to Alabama with the Van Wagener's financial help. 309 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: Isabella took the matter to court, which is widely cited 310 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: as making her the first black woman to win a 311 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: lawsuit in the United States. She was successful, but Peter's 312 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: return was traumatizing. By the time she got her son back, 313 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 1: they had been separated for more than a year and 314 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: he didn't recognize her anymore. In all likelihood, he had 315 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: also been coached to think that she was evil and 316 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: that he was better off where he was in Alabama. 317 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: He also had scars on his forehead and his cheek 318 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: from injuries, and when he first saw his mother again, 319 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: he said that these injuries had come from being kicked 320 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: by a horse and from colliding with a carriage, But 321 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: then he later on revealed that they had come from 322 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: being beaten. Once she got her son back, Isabella's life 323 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: had a period of relative safety instability. Her conversations with 324 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: God had been a daily occurrence for most of her 325 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: life before this point, but once she and her children 326 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: were safe and either free or about to become so, 327 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: that became less of a focus. But that changed in 328 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: eighteen seven during the holiday of Pinkster. Pinkster is a 329 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: holiday that developed among enslaved Africans in Dutch New York 330 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds, and it happened around the observance 331 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: of Pentecost, which is also known as with Sunday in 332 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: the Christian tradition. After Jesus crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension into heaven, 333 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit came to the disciples during the harvest 334 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: festival of Pentecost, and it's described in the Book of Acts. 335 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together 336 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of 337 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole 338 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to 339 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest 340 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: on each of them, All of them were filled with 341 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit and again to speak in other tongues 342 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 1: as the Spirit enabled them. Today, Pentecost is observed as 343 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: a Christian holiday fifty days after Easter Sunday and Dutch 344 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: New York. This Pentecost observance of Pinkster became a distinctly 345 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: African American holiday that was a multi day festival in 346 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: which enslaved people from neighboring farms and communities got together 347 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: to take a break from work, gather, eat, dance, play games, 348 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: and celebrate. For sim enslaved Africans, Pinkster had the religious 349 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: aspects of Pentecost, but for others it was more of 350 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: a secular holiday. Leading up to Pinkster seven, Isabella had 351 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: a premonition that John Dumont was going to come to 352 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: the van wagoners and take her back with him, and 353 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: she felt that she should go, and she got herself 354 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: and Sophia ready, But as she was approaching his wagon, 355 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: she had a sudden burst of insight that she described 356 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: as a flash of lightning. She immediately knew that quote 357 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: there was no place where God was not. She felt 358 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: a aimed that she had lapsed in her daily talks 359 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: with God and awe struck by the immensity of everything. 360 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: By the time this vision passed, Dumont had left and 361 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: she returned to her work. It was not long after 362 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: this that her religious visions would lead her to leave 363 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: rural New York and go to New York City, and 364 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that after a sponsor break. After this 365 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: experience around Pinkster eighteen seven, Isabella's religious life took a 366 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: more outward turn. Her relationship with God had always been 367 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: this really individual thing that was focused on her own 368 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: prayers and her own experience, but afterwards she joined a 369 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: Methodist church and then an African Methodist Episcopal church. When 370 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: Isabella moved to New York City in eighty eight, she 371 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: attended the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church. She was also 372 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 1: a preacher in her own right. Her preaching was heavily 373 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,959 Speaker 1: influenced by the idea of perfectionism, which was described by 374 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: Oneida Community founder John Humphrey Noise. Perfectionism is the idea 375 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: that a person can become free from sin through religion 376 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: and willpower. She also really devoted herself to mission work 377 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: within the city, including ministering to sex workers and encouraging 378 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: them to join an asylum that was known as the 379 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: Magdalene Society. As far as I know, this was not 380 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: similar to the Magdalen Laundries that we talked about, which 381 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: was sort of like a punishment place for fallen women. 382 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: This was more like a shelter and halfway house for 383 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: women who had been doing sex work. And we're leaving 384 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: that life. Uh. And just because that name is so evocative, 385 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: I wanted to make that clear. Um. While she was 386 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: doing this work, she met a Presbyterian man named Elijah Pearson, 387 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: and the Magdalene Society had grown out of an asylum 388 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: for women that he had been running from his home, 389 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: but which had faltered after the death of his wife. 390 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: Isabella and Elijah became spiritual colleagues, with is Bella joining 391 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: his religious circle and the two of them working together 392 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: in charitable and religious missions. When he asked her if 393 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: she had been baptized, her answer was that she had 394 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: by the Holy Spirit. This religious network eventually led Isabella 395 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: to a man named Robert Matthews, who had taken the 396 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: name father Matthias just spelled Matthias, some people might pronounce 397 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: it that way. Most Germanic languages say Mattius. So we're 398 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: going with that. And that's named after the disciple who 399 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,239 Speaker 1: replaced Judas after he betrayed Jesus, and he had been 400 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: raised as a Presbyterian, but after his adoption of the 401 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: name Matthias, he had begun describing himself as Jewish, because 402 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: Jesus and his disciples were all Jewish. When Isabella met Matthias, 403 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: she said she quote felt as if God had sent 404 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 1: him to set up the Kingdom. He seemed to have 405 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: this really deep and profound understanding of scripture, and he 406 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: looked to her like one of Jesus's disciples, like he 407 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: physically looked like a picture of one of the disciples. 408 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: She clearly thought he was genuine, although she did so 409 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: introduce him to Elijah to get his opinion as well. Ultimately, 410 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: Matthias established a religious commune known as the Kingdom, but 411 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: it was controversial from the start. They had to move 412 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: out of New York City and into sing Sing, New 413 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: York in eighteen thirty three after a dispute with the 414 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: family of one of Matthias's followers led to a police 415 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: raid and Matthias's arrest. Isabella supported Matthias through all of this, 416 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: including convincing Elijah to help Matthias get released. Her support 417 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: continued after the kingdom moved to Sing Sing, which is 418 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: now known as Ozzin Ing Yeah. They changed their name 419 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: to distance themselves from the prison. Isabella's support of Father 420 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: Matthias was really in spite of teachings that went directly 421 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: against her and her own religious work. She was the 422 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: kingdom's only black member, but she did the overwhelming share 423 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: of all of the work, including all the dirtiest and 424 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: hardest tasks, with no compensation for any of this work 425 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: at all. Matthias demanded that she and Elijah give up 426 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: the Sabbath school that they had established outside of the kingdom. 427 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: Matthias also preached that women's only role was to be 428 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: completely obedient to men, and men who taught women were wicked, 429 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: and women weren't allowed to preach while they were in 430 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: sing Sing. He also started encouraging the kingdom's men to 431 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: share their wives with him. Isabella did not approve of 432 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: all of this wife sharing, but she did continue to 433 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: think that Matthias's religious work was genuine and important and 434 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: that she was there to help him. The Kingdom fell 435 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: apart in eighteen thirty five, Elijah Pearson had died under 436 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: mysterious circumstances the year before. He had been ill for 437 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: quite some time, but he died suddenly after eating two 438 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: helpings of blueberries at dinner. Isabella was accused of poisoning him. 439 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: The Folder family, who were living at the Kingdom, accused 440 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: her of poisoning them as well. All of these charges 441 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: were baseless, though, and Isabella took the Folders to court 442 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: for slander and she was awarded a one dollar settlement. 443 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: And it became clear in all of this that Matthias 444 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: was not the holy man that he claimed to be. 445 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: This could be a whole other episode that is just 446 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: full of weirdness and scandal, and like it has a 447 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: lot of the hallmarks of religious communes where practices get 448 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: very strange and unsettling to people. And this whole thing 449 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: just caused a giant scandal that got a lot of 450 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: sensationalized news coverage at the time, and Isabella was really 451 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: mortified by all of it. She realized she had been 452 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: wrong in her assessment of Father Matthias, and that really 453 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: broke her trust and organized churches and in charismatic religious leaders. 454 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: Isabella returned to New York city and tried to resume 455 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: her religious work. She often had trouble making ends meet, 456 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: especially after the Panic of eight thirty seven. She was 457 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: trying to make her way as a preacher and charitable 458 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,479 Speaker 1: worker in a world in which many churches didn't allow 459 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: women to preach at all. Her life made a major 460 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: change once again on June one of eighteen forty three, 461 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: and that's when she finally took the name Sojourner Truth. 462 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: And that is what we will talk about in our 463 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: next episode. Do you have a listener mail for us? 464 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: Sure knew so. Uh. This listener mail is about a 465 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: Saturday classic, which a lot of times our Saturday classics 466 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: are from back in the archive, and you know they're 467 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: They're not things that we necessarily get into again because 468 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: often we've already talked about them and other listener mails 469 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: in the past. But this is a question that I 470 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: thought other people might have. This is an email from Lisa. 471 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: Lisa says I was looking forward to the additional Dickens 472 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: podcast Sarah and Debilina twice mentioned would be coming, once 473 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: at the beginning of their podcast at about two minutes 474 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: and four seconds into the rebroadcast, and again at twenty 475 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: three minutes thirty three seconds. I just would like to 476 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: say that telling us when specifically a thing happened in 477 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: an episode is enormously helpful, So thank you for doing that. 478 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: So what they said was that Dickens had multiple households 479 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: to support say what, I definitely missed that in history 480 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: and English Lit class. However, when I put Charles Dickens 481 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: in the search bar at Stuffy miss in history website, 482 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: I didn't find anything other than Charles Dickens slams Madonna 483 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: a century and a half ago, which pre dates Sarah 484 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: and Bublina's Dickens podcast and as a blog post. So 485 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: I went back to their original day of the podcast 486 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: on my Apple podcast app and scrolled through the rest 487 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: of the episodes. There was not a single additional one 488 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: about Dickens. What happened to their promised additional episodes? And 489 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: would you please add Charles Dickens's multiple households to your 490 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: subject list? Thank you, Lisa. So this required a little 491 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: bit of research because Sarah and Bablina have gone on 492 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: to other jobs and I don't like to pestor people 493 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: who work somewhere else now about things from years ago. 494 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: But according to a thread on Twitter from back in twelve. 495 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: They had planned to do this other episode, which they 496 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: obviously were intending to do and the one that we 497 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: rebroadcast as a classic, but it turned out when they 498 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: tried to get into it that there just wasn't enough 499 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: information to make it work. I think what they're referring 500 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: to is that later on in his life, Charles Dickens 501 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: fell in love with a young woman named Ellen Turning, 502 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: who was acting in a play that he was working on, 503 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: and then he went on to legally separate from his wife, 504 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: but he didn't divorce her or get married to Ellen 505 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: because it would have been way, way, way too scandalous 506 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: at the time for somebody of his level of fame 507 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: to do that. I found an article about it, and 508 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: there is a biography on her. But at the time 509 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: that Sarah and Bablina recorded this episode, I think it 510 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: was out of print, so they might not have been 511 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: able to get access to it or even known that 512 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: it existed. Possibly, and I think that is what they 513 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: were talking about. This may or may not become an 514 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: episode in the future. Our list is extremely long, but 515 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: if you were listening to that Saturday Classic and we're like, wait, 516 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: I can't find this other episode that they're talking about. 517 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: That is what happened. So thank you so much Lisa 518 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: for sending us that email, UM, and thanks to everybody 519 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: who listens to our Saturday Classics UM, even though we 520 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: don't always know the answers to questions about past episodes 521 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: from the archive. If you would like to write to 522 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: us about this or any other podcast where History podcast 523 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,719 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. And then we're all 524 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: over social media as Missed in History. That is our 525 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: Facebook and our Pinterest, in our Instagram and our Twitter. 526 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: You can come to our website that Missed in History 527 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: dot com, where you will find show notes for all 528 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: the episodes Holly and I have worked on together, a 529 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: searchable archive of every episode ever, and that link in 530 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: the menu that says Paris Trip exclamation point. You can 531 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: also subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, I Heart 532 00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: Radio app and anywhere else you get podcasts. For more 533 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit how staff 534 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: works dot com. M