WEBVTT - Protecting Our Children From Fear 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.520 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to bokate F Daily with 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:19.560 me your girl, Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.239 you know that I am a former educator and that 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.400 my background has been in education and education policy, and 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.680 the reason for that is because I really care one 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:36.040 about kids, but also believe that an educated citizen try 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.840 is the foundation to a healthy democracy, and our democracy 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.800 can only be as healthy as our youth are. And 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.760 so on today's show, I get into a conversation with 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:53.360 the child psychiatrist, doctor Jess Shatkin, and I talk to him, 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.320 you know, about a lot of things that have been 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.040 on my mind. You know, for one, I say that 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.080 I get nervous at the beginning of every school year, 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:10.400 probably since to be honest, you know, new Town, that 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.560 I get worried about how many headlines we are going 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.480 to see, how many young people we are going to 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:23.000 see pictures of on nightly news who have been robbed 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:28.080 of their futures due to gun violence, due to school shootings. 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.399 And you know, I think about the impact that the 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.319 stressors that we are all taking in as adults on 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.240 a regular basis following the news, following the headlines of 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.480 One day it's a devastation in Maui. Another day it's 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:50.400 a devastation in Florida. Another day it is a shooting 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.760 at a dollar store. Another day it's a grocery store, 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.440 an authoritarian takeover. Another day it's books being taken away 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.320 in band or you know, threats being made. Every day, 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:07.400 it is something, and the stress and our cortisol levels, 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.600 I think as a nation are at an all time 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:17.200 high without much ease, insight, and that feeling, that anxiousness, 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:23.920 that fear seeps into our children. Right, And so I 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:29.120 talk today with doctor Shatkin about what are some of 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.519 the things that we can be doing right, whether or 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.600 not you're a teacher or an administrator, if you are 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.440 a parent, if you are an uncle or an aunt 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.320 or a godparent, what are some of the tools, you know, 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.400 some of the things that we can be thinking about 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.040 to ensure that yes, you know, kids understand that bad, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:53.119 terrible things can happen, right, but that we will do 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.960 our best to keep them safe, and you know, and 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.480 they can do their best to keep themselves safe and 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.400 keep their community well and give them some agency in 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:07.400 what is happening around them. And so today's conversation is 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:13.720 about just that, really understanding what kids are going through, 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.200 how they are feeling, and how as the adults in 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.280 their lives, we can do a better job of ensuring, 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.240 particularly that the people that we are electing actually give 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.800 a damn about their wellbeing and don't just see children 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:30.000 as a problem or as a political football or a stunt, 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:35.400 but are really creating policies that are about their future 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:39.240 and their well being. Coming up next, my conversation with 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:46.800 doctor Jess Shatkin, Folks, I am very happy to welcome 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:51.160 to OKF Daily for the very first time, doctor Jess Shatkin, 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:57.320 who is a child psychiatrist and a professor at NYU 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.520 School of Medicine, to talk about something that I find, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.800 you know, regularly really important to bring up to all 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.720 of you, which is the health and well being of 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:17.160 America's children youth students. Doctor Shaftan, let me start with this, 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:22.039 when you come across a lot of these headlines right 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:27.880 that every American reads about the unc shooting and lockdown 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.560 that just took place at Chapel Hill, the shooting that 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:36.760 took place in Nashville at the return of every school year, 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.320 right end of August beginning of September, I get a 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:46.520 nod in my stomach about what this school year is 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:50.520 going to have in store for America's children, and so, 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.360 you know, as a as a child psychiatrist, I want 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.880 to get your thoughts on how you feel at the 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:03.600 start of every school year knowing that there is danger ahead. 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:07.320 Well, thanks for having me on, Danielle, I appreciate it. 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.760 Feel free to call me Jess. I agree with you 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.360 that it is extraordinarily troubling that we have so many 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.279 shootings and that we're so aware of them. I'm glad 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:18.800 we're aware of them. If we're going to have them, 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.039 I think it's important that we hear about them and 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.400 be prepared. I think one of the things that it does, however, 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.679 because school is still the safest place for our kids 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.520 to be because compared to how many people go to school, 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.080 while these shootings and these incidents are horrendous, it doesn't 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:37.200 happen to the vast, vast, vast majority of people, and 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.440 most of us are not affected directly by it other 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.360 than this not in the stomach you describe. So I 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.240 still think schools are safe. I still think schools are 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:45.800 where we need to send kids. I think we need 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.280 to do a better job of managing access to violent 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.640 means and keeping an eye on our schools and keeping 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.159 things safe. I'm a big advocate for gun control, but 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.479 you can't work with kids and not be There's just 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.440 no way that you can't be an advocate for gun control. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.559 I can't think of a logical reason that most people 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.360 need an assault weapon or a handgun. But those are 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.000 other issues that you know, maybe we do it don't 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.520 talk about. But I don't worry as the school year 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.720 starts because I'm a hopeful person. I think that's why 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.800 I do the work that I do. I'm excited by fall. 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:21.640 I always like when the kids are back in school, 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:23.120 and I mean I like summer too, but I like 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:24.960 when the kids are going back to school and I'm 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.760 talking to the teachers. I also am a professor at 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.719 the medical school and at the college at NYU, and 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.479 I like seeing the students and being engaged with them. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:37.479 So for me, I'm not troubled by the beginning of school. 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.400 But every day, twice a week it seems I'm hearing 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.520 about a shooting, and that, of course, is extraordinarily troublesome. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:51.760 How does it weigh on the minds I guess of 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:56.719 young people because what I realize. You know, I am 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.159 so very removed. Right as I told you before we 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:05.159 started recording, I was a teacher, an educator in an 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.479 elementary school. My master's degree is in early childhood education. 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:14.800 And so I really think about kindergartener's first grader, second 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:21.840 graders having to go through their shooter drills, active shooter drills. 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.640 I think about the guidelines and protocols that are being 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.280 put in place, but what fear that conjures in young people? 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.520 And so I just want to get an understanding of 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.840 while we live in a society that requires this type 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:43.520 of preparation, what does this type of preparation do to 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:44.760 you to young kids? 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.840 Yeah, well, I don't know that we know, first of all, 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:49.840 because these aren't the kind of things that we study. 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.880 And also some of this is new, right, We're just 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.120 starting to get a sense of these things going on. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.040 I think for most kids, though, knowing kids as I 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.760 do and having been around them my whole life, I 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.400 think think that most kids probably tolerate this as just 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.120 another like a fire drill, an earthquake drill. You know, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.560 when I was a kid growing up in California. We 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.800 had to get under our desks for fire drills and 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.840 earthquake drills regularly. Sorry it was a fire drills, you outside, 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.480 earthquake you get under desk. And we also had nuclear 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.000 bomb attack drills too, and we would joke about them 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.280 and make fun of them, as kids do. The kids 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.400 who are bothered by those things generally tend to be 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.480 kids who have already experienced trauma. And so if you've 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.640 already experienced trauma in your life, then seeing the repeated 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:37.240 media replays of the violent episodes, the fires, the earthquakes, 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.160 the shootings, that is troubling for kids much more often 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.840 if those kids have been exposed to trauma already of 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.640 any sort, if they're stuffering from post traumatic stress. So 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:49.560 those are the kids that we really worry about. 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:49.680 You know. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:51.520 We worried a lot about nine to eleven, and we 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:56.280 had a big intervention at NYU in downtown Manhattan after 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.080 nine to eleven, and we went into all these schools 0:08:58.080 --> 0:08:59.480 and we had these programs that went on for about 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.040 a decade, and what we learned was that most kids, 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.120 even kids who were there when it happened, you know, 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.040 when the buildings fell, they were not traumatized. They didn't 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.360 have PTSD, they weren't upset about going back to school. 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.840 But those kids who had had trauma in their lives already, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.040 those kids who had been abused, those kids who had 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.040 suffered or seen someone in their family suffer, those kids 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.680 were bothered. So I think it's probably the same sort 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:25.360 of thing now in certain neighborhoods, more impoverished neighborhoods, more 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.960 minoritized neighborhoods. There you're going to see kids who have 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.880 had more exposure to trauma in their life on average, 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.240 who are in environments where their glocal cordicoord levels or 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.319 stress levels are high to begin with, and so those 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.360 kids might be more bothered by that too, But it's 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.920 hard to know, and we don't study those things directly, 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.199 So it doesn't have an impact on the vulnerable kids 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.200 for sure, but how much it's hard to say. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.000 What are some of the remedies. If I am a parent, 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.800 I'm a caregiver, I'm a teacher that is listening to this, 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.640 and you know, I can remember I was at the 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:07.120 time of Katrina right there, and I'm trying to think. 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.640 I'm like, was it Katrina or was it another storm? 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.400 That had happened, And I remember that my first and 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:18.839 second graders were terrified, like they you know, their parents 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:20.560 were watching the news and they're seeing all of this 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.120 water coming in and they're seeing little kids like them, 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.280 you know, grab their you know, grab their belongings, and 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.440 they were terrified, and they wanted to talk about it 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.240 and understand like, am I safe? Will I be safe? 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.440 How can we help those people? Because children are naturally empathetic, right, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.120 and less taught not to be. And so I'm wondering, 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:44.199 what are some of the ways that if you are 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:49.000 a parent, a caregiver, a teacher, and a child or 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.840 classroom of children is wanting to talk about these things 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.960 as a means to calm you know, their their systems 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.679 and their imaginations. What are some of the of the 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.440 tools that you would advise. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.240 Well, I think the cognitive piece, the learning piece, is 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.960 just framing it. And we do this around any anxiety. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.439 So if someone has post traumatic s cress disorder, which 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.280 is a type of anxiety, it's not trivial, but it's 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.040 an anxious reaction or response to something that happened to you. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.199 What we do is we look at the risks, we say, well, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.040 what is the likelihood that you're actually going to be 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.640 in an incident with a shooter, And the likelihood is very, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.000 very low. And I don't have the numbers in front 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.120 of me, but if we were to, although these episodes 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:32.960 happen sometimes two or three times a week in our 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.840 country when we hear about them, still the likelihood that 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.920 any one of us will be in an environment where 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.360 that happens is remarkably low. And so I think you 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.400 frame that as best you can for kids, and kids 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.640 can understand that differently at different ages. So high school 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.080 student can understand the numbers, whereas a kid in elementary 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.439 school wouldn't understand the numbers. But you tell them basically 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:53.200 that school is still the safest place to be. This 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:54.600 is the place where we learn, This is the place 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.000 where we engage with each other, where we have activities, 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:58.959 where we have fun and support, and teachers are here. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.520 And if parents aren't squeezing their can the hand of 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.640 their child desperately as they drop them up in school 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.920 and they say be safe, honey, it's okay, it's okay, 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.880 be brave. When a parent does that, that imbuse fear 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.119 into the child. So the parent needs to correspondingly have confidence. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:15.800 It's the same thing as when you drop a kid 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.680 off the kindergarten or preschool. You know, a lot of 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.480 parents who themselves have separation anxiety or other anxieties will 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.360 be very holding on to their kids, and the kids 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.320 get anxious. But if you let your child go, if 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:27.960 you let your child know that this is the place 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.240 to be, it's all good. The kids almost always adapt 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:32.880 to that well, and when they don't, we have a 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.000 few ways to help them with that. But I think 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.679 a lot of this is us as teachers and clinicians 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.160 basically being matter of fact about the place and what's 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.400 happens there and this is how it goes, and parents 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.720 being relaxed enough themselves to let their kids go. And again, 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.719 for parents who might be listening, the risk that your 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.720 child will be in one of these incidents in general 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.600 is remarkably low. It's much more likely they'll get hurt 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.160 in an automobile accident that they will be hurt in 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.320 a household actiscident, that something terrible will happen. So the 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:04.640 media is on top of this now, in part because 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.080 I think it's mostly the more progressive media who's trying 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.080 to say listen, we need gun control. This is happening 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.680 so much. A lot of this stuff has always happened. 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.439 You know, in the seventies when I was growing up, 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.760 there were tons of kidnappings. We have very few kidnappings now, 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:19.800 it's not really a common thing, but there's a lot 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.000 of kidnappings back in the seventies where you know, and 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.680 sometimes it wasn't always like some organization. It might just 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:27.760 be a father who takes a child from a home 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.000 or and isn't living with the homer, it doesn't have custody. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.080 But those things happen. It used to happen an awful 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:34.960 lot more than they do now. And it wasn't until 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.319 we started advertising them on the milk cartons that people 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.679 became sort of savvy about it, and then people came 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.160 very concerned about it, and then our anxiety started to 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.440 lead us around a little bit. It's not that we 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.880 should be cavalier and not acknowledge that these things happen. 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.560 It's important we acknowledge it. It's also important to realize 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.280 that most everybody is safe, most all of the time, 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.160 and we can do more to short that good feeling up, 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.840 not by acting in denial, but by normalizing it. Bad 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.679 things happen sometimes, It's absolutely true. Uh, we do everything 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:06.320 we can to keep you safe. We do everything we 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.280 can to enjoy our time here and to learn together. 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.040 Let's have parents on the same page, and let's let 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.280 our kids go to school. If the school is unsafe, 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.160 if the neighborhoods unsafe, that's a different story. 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.760 You know, I want to talk about the cortisol levels 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.520 for a minute, because you you've brought it up before 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.080 earlier in our conversation, and you know, it's something that 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.440 I think about on a regular basis. My mother is 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.120 a is a is a retired nurse, and is a 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.200 is a yogi and on a yoga studio. So it's 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.400 something that a daughter that is in politics on a 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:43.400 regular basis, whose cortisol levels are quite high. Can you 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.560 talk to us about, you know, us as as as 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:53.320 adults that are really living you know, at a at 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.560 a heightened state, and like you're saying, can bring that 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:03.440 in to the the kind of the understand you know, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.320 bring that into the home, bring that in to our 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.160 connections with young people, and so talk to us about 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:14.160 what happens with the stressor and then why it's important 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.800 to kind of bring those levels down given what we're 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.600 all seeing, right and how we're all tapped in on 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:21.640 a regular basis. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.840 So, cortisol is a remarkable and wonderfully protective hormone that 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:28.960 is released by our adrenal glands which sit on top 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.200 of our kidneys, and when we are stressed out, cortisol 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.640 levels are released in higher amounts. It's a natural, normal hormone. 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.600 It does all sorts of things for us to help 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.720 protect us. It helps with managing some of our fight 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:48.480 flight and freeze sort of protections. It's important for getting 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.600 us ready for managing any stressor that happens in our life. 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.560 And it can basically help us feel less pain, and 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.600 be more strong and muscular, and be more acutely focused, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.280 and all these kinds of things that can make us 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.760 at times almost superhuman, so we can get through the 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.520 stressors that we face. But unabated high levels of cortisol 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.120 are also released when people are stressed, and that makes sense, 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.600 and so the levels stay high. And when they stay high, 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.880 although they protect us and they allow us to sort 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.480 of be ready for any disaster or any possibility that 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.960 can happen, they also have a wear and tear effect 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.320 on our bodies because you can't maintain that high cortisol 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.880 without some pain. That pain would be high blood pressure, 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:33.040 that pain would be a rapid pulse. That pain would 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:38.600 be irritability, agitation, anxiety, and so those things. While again 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.880 it's protective and helpful for us, if you are a 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.560 child that's say, growing up an impoverished neighborhood and you're 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.200 an unsafe school and you have an unsafe route to school, 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.240 but you've got to go by yourself, and you live 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.080 in a disorganized and violent area, then your levels of 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:56.360 cortisol are high, and you're primed always for disaster because 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.080 you hear sirens at night and your sleep is disrupted 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.080 and always have a great night of sleep. And you 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.280 also have a great meal every day because the food 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.920 is little insecure and you're not sure that you are 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.840 you're not warm enough for the cold days and cool 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:12.639 enough for the hot days, and so your body is 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.560 always sort of primed for any kind of urgent situation, 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.000 and that wears you down. That leads to higher rates 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:24.040 of anxiety, drug abuse, school drop out, Your behaviors around 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.480 like things like early pregnancy or getting involved with a 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.080 rough group as much higher you're risk with age of obesity, hypertension, 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.359 heart disease. You know, these people who are in these 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.240 environments die on average twenty to thirty years earlier because 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:37.960 of these high levels of court is all that take 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.120 a toll on their body, causes their circulation to break down, 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.200 increases the likelihood of diabetes, makes them not very efficient 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.960 at processing glucose. Pancreas doesn't work as well, or insulin 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.439 isn't as effective. So there's all sorts of things that 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.560 we've learned in the past three decades or so about this, 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.880 and so we're cautious about it. And on a very 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:58.879 micro level, if you're a kid in school and you 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.160 go to a typical school, well, there are some kids, 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.160 of course who are bathing in cortisol all the time 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.000 because their environments are unsafe. There's abuse in the home, 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.800 someone's in and out of jail, there's drugs in the home, 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.040 there's a lot of instability in the home. They live 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:12.800 in a poor area, whatever it is. And so those 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.760 kids go to school primed for fights, primed for tension. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:18.840 And those kids, we actually know that when you show 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.800 those kids even an ambivalent face, you're walking down the 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.080 hall and You're not one of these kids who's affected 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.520 by this. You're a typical kid, but you don't, you know, 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.119 you just have a sort of a straight face on 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.439 or maybe you smile a certain way, which a lot 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:35.639 of kids would interpret as awkward, weird, ambivalent, unsure, or 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.800 even friendly. Some of these kids who are primed for 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.560 disasters see that as a violent face or a threatening face, 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.040 and they get agitated and they respond to it. These 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.560 kids get into more fights, These kids get into more detentions, 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.439 these kids get kicked out of school, and all that 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.240 stuff sets them up for all the other things I 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.920 was talking about, you know, bad food, lower income paying jobs, 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.679 earlier pregnancy, more drug use, likelihood of being incarcerated. So 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.680 all of this stuff works in and it becomes this 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.879 big stew. Cortisol is not the only thing here, but 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.840 it's a big part of our biological response that leads 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.960 to uh OR as a result of these exposures and 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:12.160 then leads to more problems. 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.800 You know, I think about that in all the ways 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:20.359 that you just layered. You know, the issues that students are, 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:24.680 that students can face, and I think a lot about 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.000 how the response is that the student is the problem 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.000 as opposed to the environment is the problem, right, And 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.040 the environment is the problem because we don't invest in 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.840 the ways that we should to pro to make what 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:42.040 is quote unquote typical for some to be the actual 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:47.000 norm for everyone. Right. That when you have environments that 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:52.160 are are riddled with these with these issues that are 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:57.040 societal issues that are ignored, the effects then become domino 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.399 right from youth all the way into adult. And I 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:04.000 think that that is something that is really important for 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.399 us to think about when we think about again what 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:10.480 kind of elected officials we are putting in place and 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.040 where their priorities are. Before I let you go, I 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.280 do want I just punctuate, Yeah. 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.280 Please, I punctuate what you just said. Though. What you 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.440 just said is something we've known for years. It's what 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:27.440 our best interventions do. We take kids who are in disorganized, crowded, 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.200 unhealthy environments and we enhance their environment somehow. Maybe it's 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.679 at school, maybe it's at home. Sometimes it means a 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.879 certain type of foster care or placement. But whatever it 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:39.520 is that we do, when we move them into an 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.119 environment that is structured for them, that gives them a 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:46.520 reliable way to learn, a reliable sort of behavioral patterns 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.280 where they're waking around the same time and going to 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.320 sleep around the same time, and they're eating healthy meals, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.320 and they're getting exercise, and they're getting teachers who identify 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.560 their learning difficulties and support them if they have them. 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.359 When we do that, people get better. They may still 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.479 have to press or they may still have ADHD, they 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.800 may still have autism. It doesn't treat all that stuff, 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.480 but it makes them so much less less intensive, and 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.320 some of those things that are triggered by environmental situations 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.080 never show up in the first place, or they're so 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.159 minimal they don't need treatment because they're getting all the 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:16.960 supports in place that they need. There are a million 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.560 political reasons that we don't always invest in those interventions 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.359 the way we should. Politicians are elected for a few years, 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.280 these things take a number of years to show their benefits, 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.320 but they do have. Every study we've done looking at 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.520 this shows that these are cost effective that if we 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.240 follow them for four or ten, eight years, are multi 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.120 systemic treatment. Things like Boystown. I was just in Boystown 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:39.600 consulting with them in Omaha, Nebraska. It's the same thing. 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.280 They basically bring these kids into homes, these are foster 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:44.760 kids or kids who've been in violent environments. They just 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.680 raise them in a safe home with a family where 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:51.480 they have reliable meals, reliable activities, and the vast majority 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:53.520 of them do very well and go to college, or 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:55.920 they go get jobs, they get training. They are kids 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.280 who are able to function very well when taken out 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:02.000 of a very disruptive vironment or when given the supports 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.600