Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start
Speaker 1: changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey, hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin,
Speaker 1: do you want to accompany me in this cave and
Speaker 1: explore it together? Wait? Wait, wait, I just need a
Speaker 1: triple check something. Okay, has anyone ever been in this cave? Um?
Speaker 1: Probably not? But who could say? Okay? That's fine. I
Speaker 1: have a question. I have a second question. Follow up? Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: is this cave just like some really long vagina metaphor?
Speaker 1: If so, I didn't? Yes, yeah, I mean aren't all
Speaker 1: caves do it? All? Right? Here we go. We are
Speaker 1: now descending into the cave effortless beautiful. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: extel Cast. Uh. My name is Caitlin Darante. My name
Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus, and we're just gonna We're just gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, rope on down. I'm like, I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: it very immediately clear that I've never been spelan king. Uh.
Speaker 1: Let's rope on down into the vagina metaphor. That is
Speaker 1: one of the scariest movies that I've ever seen. I think, yes,
Speaker 1: this and this is our show, The Bechtel Cast, where
Speaker 1: we examine film through an intersectional feminist lens. We use
Speaker 1: the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion,
Speaker 1: that being a media metric invented by queer cartoonist Alice
Speaker 1: and Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Wallace. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: uh Wallace test, And I really just my mouth just
Speaker 1: went another place, the Becktel Wallace test. Yes, and that
Speaker 1: requires our rendition of the test that two people of
Speaker 1: a marginalized gender speak to each other about something other
Speaker 1: than a man for at least two line of dialogue.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't be that hard. It really shouldn't be that hard.
Speaker 1: But but some people really, I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: if we if Christopher Nolan has really gotten there yet.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's like we're always pushing for growth.
Speaker 1: He simply has never seen two women talk to each other.
Speaker 1: Our thoughts are always with Christopher Nolan and his quest
Speaker 1: to get two female characters to speak to each other about.
Speaker 1: Not Leonardo DiCaprio. But you know, someday, well, today's movie
Speaker 1: should fare a little bit better, but not to spoil
Speaker 1: anything spoil away, because today we were talking about The
Speaker 1: Descent and we have a guest with us who we
Speaker 1: are very excited about. She is a filmmaker, an artist,
Speaker 1: and a consultant. It's Darby Rose with you. Yes, please descend.
Speaker 1: Let's with us into the vagina metaphor? Which character is
Speaker 1: it that descends really quickly? And you're like, oh no,
Speaker 1: but then she's like, I descend all the time. That
Speaker 1: would be Holly, Holly, yes, And then I mean Holly,
Speaker 1: she should maybe descend a little slower as we learn. Anyways,
Speaker 1: this movie is so scary. Thank you for coming. I'm
Speaker 1: so stoked, and thank you for bringing us this movie.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love this movie. I saw it years
Speaker 1: ago on the interwebs and then again at sin a
Speaker 1: family and the director actually came and did like a
Speaker 1: Q and a yeah. It was really rad um and
Speaker 1: you know, he said a lot of the stuff that
Speaker 1: you can read on IMDb trivia, which is fairly fascinating.
Speaker 1: But I loved it and watching it again it was
Speaker 1: like this moothe is still badass and scared the ship
Speaker 1: out of me. Yeah, it's like I'm still scared. It's
Speaker 1: like broad Daylight. I just got so scared by their
Speaker 1: own terrors in their own lives and then the terrors
Speaker 1: below ground that they embark with right that they descend
Speaker 1: upon on. Yeah, Jamie, what's your history with the movie.
Speaker 1: I had really no history with this movie at all.
Speaker 1: I knew that it was a horror movie with an
Speaker 1: all female cast, and that is all I knew. And
Speaker 1: I'm really glad I went into it knowing essentially nothing,
Speaker 1: because every I feel like I got the two thousand
Speaker 1: five theatrical experience that I was that I would have
Speaker 1: because it's so I mean, like our discussion aside like it.
Speaker 1: It's so scary, it is so well paced, Like there
Speaker 1: were so many times that I was surprised, and then
Speaker 1: I had to go seek out the UK ending. I
Speaker 1: watched a cut of it that had the US ending,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I I still don't know what ending
Speaker 1: I prefer. I think I know what ending I prefer,
Speaker 1: but I don't. But I'm but I don't know. There
Speaker 1: it was really good. It was really good and really scary,
Speaker 1: and I was I don't know, Yeah, I was very happy.
Speaker 1: I went in kind of not knowing anything about it.
Speaker 1: What about you Caitlin. I saw this movie in theaters
Speaker 1: in two thousand five, depending on what month that came out.
Speaker 1: I was either a freshman or sophomore in college, and
Speaker 1: I went with my best friend j T, friend of
Speaker 1: the show Twilight, UM, and we saw it together because
Speaker 1: we had a habit of seeing horror movies, especially together
Speaker 1: in theaters, and then both being so scared about whatever
Speaker 1: we watched. We would then have to like just stayed
Speaker 1: over at each other's apartments for like a week afterward,
Speaker 1: just to take comfort in knowing that someone else was
Speaker 1: there to protect us. UM. So that was very much
Speaker 1: the case for The Descent. I thought it was one
Speaker 1: of the most effective horror movies I had ever seen, UM,
Speaker 1: because a lot of horror movies it's like they're in
Speaker 1: a haunted house and it's like, Okay, then leave the
Speaker 1: haunted house, or like the reason that they can't leave
Speaker 1: will be so like plot device e or ridiculou list.
Speaker 1: But this one, it's like they had to keep going forward, yeah, trapped,
Speaker 1: like there are no I mean, well, I don't want
Speaker 1: to say there are no story logic issues, because like
Speaker 1: what about the cave dwellers, but I mean, for what
Speaker 1: it is like the world building that it accomplishes, You're
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, like, oh, it's just so scary.
Speaker 1: I feel like it. It does enough kind of early
Speaker 1: on too that I truly wasn't like, I don't like,
Speaker 1: there were different moments where I'm like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is going to be a last girl situation,
Speaker 1: like maybe more maybe no one will get out, maybe
Speaker 1: multiple people will get out, Like I just have no
Speaker 1: And I certainly I was watching this movie by myself,
Speaker 1: and I was just sort of like giving my boyfriend
Speaker 1: brief summaries every few minutes of what was happening. Um,
Speaker 1: but I certainly didn't see a truck full of spears
Speaker 1: crashing into them at the beginning. That was it was like,
Speaker 1: just what kind of truck was that? It was a
Speaker 1: truck full of spears and the spears were on top
Speaker 1: of the truck and that so it's like borried, but
Speaker 1: not for long stretches. And then you don't like, I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure. I knew so little about it that I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if there were going to be quote unquote
Speaker 1: monsters at any point. And you get like pretty far
Speaker 1: into the movie without that happening, and so it was
Speaker 1: like a cool surprise when you're like, oh, there are
Speaker 1: little little vagina monsters inside the vagina uh and not
Speaker 1: in this movie to be called the m STDs. They
Speaker 1: are cave dwellers. But now maybe I will refer to
Speaker 1: any lady problems as I've got a cave dwelling of
Speaker 1: the Sunday. I love I love that the movie does
Speaker 1: have like it's kind of like two movies in one,
Speaker 1: because it's not until according to IMDb trivia, fifty one
Speaker 1: minutes into the film does the cave dwellers do they
Speaker 1: come out? Like the killing doesn't start happening until then,
Speaker 1: And I feel like, up until then, it's already like
Speaker 1: so scary, but it's not. It's just good. It's just
Speaker 1: a good time. Every moment that you get scared or jump,
Speaker 1: it feels so like, yeah, they deserve to do that
Speaker 1: to me, I deserve that, And it's and it's also like, yeah, sad,
Speaker 1: and you're getting to know these characters, and I think actually,
Speaker 1: by the time they start dying, I was kind of like,
Speaker 1: that's okay, I'm okay, I'm okay with this. Even though
Speaker 1: I've gotten attached to some of them except for a
Speaker 1: bitch as do you know I'm okay with this. I
Speaker 1: have no sympathy for that home record. Oh well, I oh,
Speaker 1: I have a whole thing about her. We'll get to it. Man.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm weirdly empathetic. I mean, there are
Speaker 1: some things where you're like Juno, like what, but the
Speaker 1: dude has a loaded character. There's so much going on there,
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, yeah, for sure. My only issue too,
Speaker 1: though with them doing that to Juno was she was
Speaker 1: like the only woman of color, and was like, yes,
Speaker 1: why do you gotta do that to her? Well to
Speaker 1: me and we'll talk about this. But just to give
Speaker 1: you a little niak peek, the movie suggests that women
Speaker 1: are so petty that they will just kill each other because, like,
Speaker 1: I understand the anger of learning that your best one
Speaker 1: of your best friends like was having an affair with
Speaker 1: your husband, But are you going to be so angry
Speaker 1: that you kill her or leave her to die? That
Speaker 1: was that was definitely like her change and you know
Speaker 1: when she becomes like a little cave dweller herself, like
Speaker 1: after death dies. You know, I was like trying to
Speaker 1: believe this change, but I was like, but you just
Speaker 1: didn't give me that like anger building up. You gave
Speaker 1: me a lot of anxiety and hallucinations, but you didn't
Speaker 1: give me this like anger that burst or she just
Speaker 1: like snapped, you know, or maybe they did, but I
Speaker 1: didn't believe it. I kind of was. I I don't
Speaker 1: know why. Like one of the things I was sure
Speaker 1: of was that I felt so sure. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just was like, well, I don't think that Sarah
Speaker 1: is going to kill I just didn't think Sarah was
Speaker 1: going to kill Juno. I thought they were going to
Speaker 1: both escape and then have like the most terrifying discussion
Speaker 1: of Juno's entire life. Like that was kind of what
Speaker 1: I was hoping for, is that they would both live
Speaker 1: and then they would just have to coexist with every
Speaker 1: bit of trauma in relation. Yeah. Yeah, like it's just
Speaker 1: every single conceivable imaginable trauma. I was kind of Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean honestly in a in a movie that like
Speaker 1: I really really really enjoyed that. That was like one
Speaker 1: of the choices where I feel like maybe if I
Speaker 1: saw in theaters, I would have been like fuck, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's so cathartic, But like, yeah, being
Speaker 1: that she is the only woman of color, and it
Speaker 1: kind of like makes Sarah. I don't know. I was like,
Speaker 1: I feel like Sarah is gonna Also just logistically, I'm like,
Speaker 1: Juno is the only person that has, you know, been spelunking,
Speaker 1: Like obviously she fucked this day up, but she she
Speaker 1: has the skills to get us up in any case. Well,
Speaker 1: I watched the sequel to Okay. I wanted to because
Speaker 1: I read a about it and I'm so curious why
Speaker 1: they took that route. Yeah, what is so? Spoiler alert
Speaker 1: everyone for The Descent Part two. Um, it's the same
Speaker 1: cast sort of where basically it picks up right where
Speaker 1: the first movie leaves off, where like the authorities find
Speaker 1: Sarah having just escaped from the cave, but she doesn't
Speaker 1: remember anything. I guess the trauma has made her unable
Speaker 1: to remember what just happened. So they're like, well, all
Speaker 1: of your friends are missing. We have to go back
Speaker 1: down into the cave to find them. And she's like,
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know what happened down there. So
Speaker 1: she and like some I don't know if they're park rangers.
Speaker 1: I think there's like a cough, few cops, but they
Speaker 1: all go into the cave because they don't believe the woman.
Speaker 1: Well that and she doesn't remember, which I think we
Speaker 1: we've talked about how like women having amnesia is like
Speaker 1: often a plot device in movies, and women be having amnesia, Well,
Speaker 1: women's brains are so unreliable. Um, So they go back
Speaker 1: down into the cave and they basically find all of
Speaker 1: the dead bodies of her friends. They find the cave
Speaker 1: dwellers again. But guess what, Juno has survived and she wait,
Speaker 1: she like fought everyone off with her broken leg, with
Speaker 1: her broken right, with her stabbed leg, and yeah, so
Speaker 1: she she's survived. And basically the rest of the cast
Speaker 1: dies except for Sarah and Juno. They are like kind
Speaker 1: of the two final girls at the end and they
Speaker 1: sort of reconcile where they're like, we have to protect
Speaker 1: each other, and they both they kind of both like
Speaker 1: martyr themselves for each other. So the second movie kind
Speaker 1: of it ends. It ends in a way that I
Speaker 1: like better than how this first movie sounds like how
Speaker 1: I wanted the first This movie the end was like
Speaker 1: that they would somehow be what I was hoping. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like, maybe this is shooting too high
Speaker 1: for a movie, a man wrote in two thousand five.
Speaker 1: But I was hoping that they would have some sort
Speaker 1: of like intense cave discussion there in the Vagina, and
Speaker 1: they're just like, wait a second, Like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: very I feel like sometimes in these situations it's like
Speaker 1: maybe her husband was like an total asshole who like
Speaker 1: misled both of them and all this stuff, and they're like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: good thing, you got stabbed. Let's get out of here,
Speaker 1: or you know whatever whatever that they have some some
Speaker 1: sort of like they don't have to like each other,
Speaker 1: but some some kind of thing that doesn't involve just
Speaker 1: murdering each other. But I'm glad that that man that's
Speaker 1: so is horror sequels never correct things. That's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you guys read the IMDb trivia because you keep
Speaker 1: calling it the Vagina And one of the trivia pieces
Speaker 1: was that so all the caves were obviously not real,
Speaker 1: they built like twenty one different caves, and that they
Speaker 1: called that tight narrow one of vagina they would always
Speaker 1: be like all were going in. Yeah, so I thought
Speaker 1: that's like you guys were referring to. I thought everyone
Speaker 1: read the trivia like me, Wait, that's so fun yeah.
Speaker 1: Anytime you drop a female cast into a large kavernart
Speaker 1: space and the movies written by a man, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: we know what this is about. Like, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: He So he did Dog Soldiers, which I still haven't seen,
Speaker 1: and then they asked him to do this and he
Speaker 1: was like, I don't really want to get like known
Speaker 1: as a like horror director. And then something changed and
Speaker 1: he was like, all right, screwt, let's do it. But
Speaker 1: you know I want to do with an all female
Speaker 1: cast and a sin a family. He put it better
Speaker 1: than and how it's put on IMDb. He was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, with women, they are more likely to talk
Speaker 1: about their feelings about why they're in the situation, versus
Speaker 1: like the men I write don't talk about feelings. I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, thank thank you, but it's in a family.
Speaker 1: He was like, he's like, well, women have more dynamic
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, okay, I like that. He's like,
Speaker 1: I think we need to see more movies with like
Speaker 1: all cast of woman and he's like, so I asked
Speaker 1: all my female friends. I'm like, you know, it's so funny.
Speaker 1: Is what you should have done? You should have given
Speaker 1: the movie to a woman to direct and write. It's
Speaker 1: cute that you wanted to learn to be a woman,
Speaker 1: John Sweden, But you could just give the project to
Speaker 1: a woman and then yeah, and then he did it
Speaker 1: and and then I guess they made them all like
Speaker 1: have different accents because he had like a primarily UK film.
Speaker 1: Actually I get the ending of this movie often confused
Speaker 1: with the Ruins the genem alone. Basically I don't even remember.
Speaker 1: She gets stuck in a pyramid or something. It's like
Speaker 1: a bunch of white people go to like a brown
Speaker 1: country and they get stuck in a pyramid. But then
Speaker 1: the pyramid like create some virus or disease and if
Speaker 1: you leave, and then like the natives they think are like,
Speaker 1: don't leave your curt But then eventually she gets away
Speaker 1: and the ending but is infected. So I always get
Speaker 1: the ending of the Descent in this mixture. Two entirely
Speaker 1: different movies, extremely different. But I think the early two
Speaker 1: thousand's horror films where it gave you that hopeless ending
Speaker 1: was like kind of a thing. Yeah, for sure, except
Speaker 1: for the American ending. I like, I like a hopeless ending.
Speaker 1: I do too, I love a hopeless ending. I don't
Speaker 1: care about life. Let's do it. I'm like, you know, like, realistically,
Speaker 1: there's rarely a last girl in life, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of when I went back and watched the
Speaker 1: UK ending to this, I mean, we'll talk about but like,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it's more bleak, but I'm like, this
Speaker 1: makes more sense. This makes more sense. Yeah, and more
Speaker 1: likely that that would have would have happened that way. Probably, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were all fucked. Ye. Well should I recap the
Speaker 1: movie and then we can really dive in, we can
Speaker 1: really descend into the discussion. Let's do it. Okay, So
Speaker 1: we open on a group of three kind of like
Speaker 1: adrenaline junkie women. They are Sarah, Beth, and Juno, who
Speaker 1: we see like whitewater rafting. Sarah has a husband and
Speaker 1: her young daughter and they are brutally killed in a
Speaker 1: car accident on the drive home. But I can't emphasize
Speaker 1: it enough. A truck with spears on top of it,
Speaker 1: and the spears are loose. They were like, I think
Speaker 1: they're just like narrow pipes, which might be foreshadowing the
Speaker 1: narrow pipiness of it all. I really did appreciate. I
Speaker 1: kind of like when like a horror movie cuts to
Speaker 1: the chase of like, no, this is gonna be a
Speaker 1: gory one because the second you see that whatever it
Speaker 1: is go through her husband's head right after she's like, babe,
Speaker 1: you're distant because he's cheating on her, and then he's
Speaker 1: like um, and then it's just instant karma piped through
Speaker 1: the head. Yes. Um. So Sarah is obviously devastated, and
Speaker 1: then we cut to one year later. She's still dealing
Speaker 1: with the grief, but she decides to go cave diving
Speaker 1: in Appalachia with her friends Beth and Juno, as well
Speaker 1: as some other friends, Becca, Becca's sister Sam who is
Speaker 1: a med school student, and Holly, who is the one
Speaker 1: who's like kind of the most reckless and thrilled speaking
Speaker 1: of the group. One of the group, right. She descends
Speaker 1: quickly and then they head for bore Um Cave, or
Speaker 1: what they think is bore Um Cave. They arrive at
Speaker 1: the mouth of a cave and begin there descents right away.
Speaker 1: When they're inside, some something's happened. There's like a bloody handprint,
Speaker 1: A bunch of bats fly around and startle them. There
Speaker 1: was a dead deer right near the mouth of the cave,
Speaker 1: and We're like, hmm, I wonder if anything bad is
Speaker 1: going to happen. They start poking at it like a
Speaker 1: dead body, like and stand by me or something. It's like,
Speaker 1: you guys want to see a dead body and we
Speaker 1: start poking. They're like, come on, we gotta go. We
Speaker 1: have to have a descent, Okay, So they go further
Speaker 1: into the cave. They go down this narrow tunnel, which
Speaker 1: I guess was the vagina is what they called it
Speaker 1: on set. I mean, yeah, I mean there's a pool
Speaker 1: full of blood at the center of it. I mean
Speaker 1: it's very it's a very siss normative situation they're descending into.
Speaker 1: Uh so they don't know where they're going. It's very
Speaker 1: dark and scary. And then Sarah gets stuck in one
Speaker 1: of these very narrow tunnels. She starts panicking. The tunnel
Speaker 1: starts to collapse. So I actually had to walk out
Speaker 1: of the room at one point. I was like, I
Speaker 1: can't even watch this. That was the scariest part for me.
Speaker 1: The claustrophobia. Yeah, I definitely have claustrophobia, and that was
Speaker 1: my worst nightmare. Like I'd rather deal with the cave
Speaker 1: dwellers and yeah, yeah, like once you get to the
Speaker 1: cave dwellers, we're like, okay, this is like this is imagination,
Speaker 1: but that like moment of horror at the beginning, because
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this movie, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I've kind of always wanted to do that, and then
Speaker 1: immediately you're like, I've had a change of heart. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So Beth helps her get out, but one of the
Speaker 1: bags of ropes gets lost in the rubble, and then
Speaker 1: that way out is now blocked. So did they send
Speaker 1: it with the last person? Though? Right? Questions? Why? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is a good question. Why do we ever find out?
Speaker 1: This is maybe a plot hole bit? But why doesn't
Speaker 1: Juno take the book? Like? Is it just because she's like,
Speaker 1: we're so bad? But it's like if she knew the
Speaker 1: book that she has is for Borom Cave, but they
Speaker 1: don't go into Borom caves, so that's why she doesn't
Speaker 1: bring it. She's like, why bother that makes more sense,
Speaker 1: that's right. She is like, we don't need this ship
Speaker 1: because we didn't even go not even but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: rush everyone because we've got to get to the vagina.
Speaker 1: Now there's there's also a there's a female orgasm joke
Speaker 1: in there, it's how how do you give a lemon
Speaker 1: an orgasm? You touch it's? You touch it citrus, which
Speaker 1: is supposed to sound like clitter as it's not a
Speaker 1: it's not a good punchline. I'm like, maybe that works
Speaker 1: better with a Scottish accent. I'm not sure. Okay, So
Speaker 1: that one way out is blocked and they're like, no
Speaker 1: big deal, there are two other ways out of Borom Cave, right,
Speaker 1: And that's when we learn Juno didn't bring them to
Speaker 1: Borom Cave. She brought them to a different, uncharted cave
Speaker 1: that no one has ever been inside of before, or
Speaker 1: so they think shady, but this means that they have
Speaker 1: no idea how to navigate it, and no one knows
Speaker 1: they're down there, so if they do turn up missing,
Speaker 1: like the rescue team will search the wrong place. Um So,
Speaker 1: then Sarah thinks she sees something or someone lurking in
Speaker 1: the distance. Maybe it's a yeast infection that's affecting this.
Speaker 1: I was I was just like the U T I
Speaker 1: lurking in Yeah as U T I. Do they make
Speaker 1: that sound too? Yeah? You don't very echo yeah. Um
Speaker 1: So they move onward to find a path out of
Speaker 1: the cave and they come upon this deep ravine that
Speaker 1: they have to get across, and as they're doing that,
Speaker 1: they notice a hook that's already embedded in the roof
Speaker 1: of the cave and they realize someone's been downe there before,
Speaker 1: but it's equipment that's like several decades old. So they're like, well,
Speaker 1: if people have been down here before, why is this
Speaker 1: cave still uncharted? And they're like, they haven't touched this
Speaker 1: equipment in a Hunters that's my also horrible accent, but
Speaker 1: bear with it. But then they come upon some cave
Speaker 1: paintings that show that there's another entrance to the cave.
Speaker 1: But then Holly, who loves scrambling ahead of everyone, falls
Speaker 1: into a hole and breaks her leg, and while the
Speaker 1: rest of the group is dealing with her injury, Sarah
Speaker 1: hears something. She breaks away from the group and sees
Speaker 1: what appears to be a man or a kind of
Speaker 1: humanoid figure. She tells everyone. She tells Juno, and Juno
Speaker 1: gaslights a ship at us her home wrecker of all
Speaker 1: people to be gaslighting Sarah. At this time, jess I says,
Speaker 1: are you shady? So no one believes her, but then
Speaker 1: they do, because they all get attacked by what turns
Speaker 1: out to be cave dwelling cannibalistic humanoid creatures. Wikipedia calls
Speaker 1: them crawlers. It kind of looks like I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like it looks like a variation on so many
Speaker 1: horror movie characters that at least I'll give them credit
Speaker 1: for not making the entire head of vagina mouth, which
Speaker 1: is usually what happens, but it is still just like
Speaker 1: a fleshy mystery. I like that they actually built it
Speaker 1: to kind of make sense. I'm saying this because I
Speaker 1: also just watched A Quiet Place for the first time
Speaker 1: and you're just like, oh, vagina mouth, got it. But
Speaker 1: this one, I mean, I like that they at least
Speaker 1: like took the time to be like, oh, it makes
Speaker 1: sense that this creature would evolve the way it did.
Speaker 1: Like it is kind of like a water bats thing.
Speaker 1: Like it makes sense enough. It's really scary to look at.
Speaker 1: I like the mother and child pair, no no, no no,
Speaker 1: But I mean there's a little they made in this.
Speaker 1: It's very baffling to me that, like the female cave
Speaker 1: dweller has long but but the male ones are bald,
Speaker 1: and it's like that's not how that works. She also
Speaker 1: has some cool like body chats going on, Like I
Speaker 1: saw some like chess tattoos happening. It was like a
Speaker 1: chess piece that or it was a clothing piece or
Speaker 1: her skin was very mutually. I thought she has she
Speaker 1: seems to have like breasts, she's got like cave dweller titties.
Speaker 1: It was kind of I mean, I thought that was
Speaker 1: interesting because I felt like in that it's like a
Speaker 1: conversation that I feel like we usually have during animated
Speaker 1: movies where it's like a I don't know, like kind
Speaker 1: of needless gender coating where you're like, why are you
Speaker 1: giving this like creature a hairstyle? Like what are you doing?
Speaker 1: Because I'm just thinking about her, like what what were
Speaker 1: the decisions? Like someone looked at her, they put their
Speaker 1: hand on their other chins, step back, and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that looks I think this is that you guys, I
Speaker 1: think we've got it. We've got the female cavedwaller, just
Speaker 1: the one and her little baby that she protects. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: women be raising children without the assistance of the monster father. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm also just like I guess the filmmakers were like, well,
Speaker 1: most women above ground have long hair and most men
Speaker 1: have short hair, so that's how these cave dwellers will
Speaker 1: also look. They evolved like according to Western fashion, which
Speaker 1: is how evolution works. But they did say that they
Speaker 1: were from like a hundred years ago, which was a
Speaker 1: more traditional time. Maybe I don't know. I don't really
Speaker 1: want to see. I aren't they supposed to be from?
Speaker 1: Like No, I think it's there were other like spi
Speaker 1: lunkers who had tried to explore the cave, but they
Speaker 1: also got murdered by these cave dwellers who had been
Speaker 1: there for I'm guessing millennia. Yeah, I guess that's not
Speaker 1: how humans evolved. Yeah, well, what do you think it was? Like?
Speaker 1: I don't know this was, don't I honestly wasn't thinking
Speaker 1: about it that hard. But would it have been like
Speaker 1: people who got stuck there in like cave dwelling times
Speaker 1: and that's why there's cave paintings, and then it's like
Speaker 1: those people evolved into the cave dwells. Yeah, that's I
Speaker 1: think where some of the story logic does get a
Speaker 1: bit muddied, because you know, in the in the in
Speaker 1: human migration, the humans because they're in Appalachia right, humans
Speaker 1: didn't arrive to the America's until about you know, there's
Speaker 1: there's debate on exactly when it was, but that was
Speaker 1: somewhere around I think years ago is a number that
Speaker 1: we know think it was. So it might just be
Speaker 1: that very you know, early humans had gone into these caves,
Speaker 1: decided to stay there, evolved, or maybe they got stuck
Speaker 1: there and they found a way to survive and then yeah,
Speaker 1: generations of I don't know, like they evolved to the
Speaker 1: space of like it makes total sense that they're blind
Speaker 1: like all that. I don't know, And I mean there's
Speaker 1: I have a whole spiel on like how disability is
Speaker 1: treated in horror movies that we'll get into. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how these cave dollars came to
Speaker 1: be there. Yeah, I guess we're not meant to think
Speaker 1: too hard about it. Yeah, we just have to suspend
Speaker 1: our disbelief. But I just still want to know why
Speaker 1: they chose for the female to have long, curly hair
Speaker 1: and like chest and armed tattoos. And she did not
Speaker 1: pass the backdel test for sure, she didn't have a name.
Speaker 1: She protected a man. We never got time with her.
Speaker 1: I think she was the one to underserved female of
Speaker 1: the film Justice, and of the only things we knew
Speaker 1: about her was that she was a mother. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: a loving, heartfelt mother who would die for her own
Speaker 1: And I think we should take a moment of silence
Speaker 1: for this lost cave dweller. I know, because she gets
Speaker 1: stabbed in the eyeball. Oh, I know. So Sarah has
Speaker 1: spotted one of the cave dwellers. No one believes her.
Speaker 1: Then they get attacked. Holly gets killed by one of
Speaker 1: the cave people. Juno manages to kill one of them,
Speaker 1: but then she also accidentally stabs Beth and leaves her
Speaker 1: there to die poopsies. I'll have a whole thing about
Speaker 1: that as well. We'll get there. Then Juno, Becca, and
Speaker 1: Sam they're trying to find their way out. Sarah has
Speaker 1: gotten separated from the group and she finds Beth, who
Speaker 1: was not all the way dead yet. And Beth is like,
Speaker 1: don't trust Juno. She did this to me. Also, she
Speaker 1: was having an affair with your husband, and she's like,
Speaker 1: well shit. In my opinion, Beth is really blowing her
Speaker 1: last moments on earth, like getting into other people's business.
Speaker 1: It's like, do you have like a family that you
Speaker 1: would like a message passed on to or are you
Speaker 1: just gonna like gossip into an early grave? Like what's
Speaker 1: going on? It's like, well, I have no choice but
Speaker 1: to just tell you this because fuck everything and bleeds
Speaker 1: to death imagine why they're dying breath to be like
Speaker 1: by the way, um, did you know? It's so bizarre right,
Speaker 1: Like this is like literally a matter of life and death.
Speaker 1: Like that's the thing. Like this movie was like women
Speaker 1: are so petty that in their dying breaths they're going
Speaker 1: to gossip and they're going to murder each other. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's real. Which is interesting because they're all like, you know,
Speaker 1: thrill seekers, and they all knew what they knew it
Speaker 1: would be like some danger doing this, um, whether it
Speaker 1: was charted or uncharted. But the fact that like all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, they all freak out and have no
Speaker 1: idea what to do, Like they all just freak out
Speaker 1: and like, wait, don't you all like to do this?
Speaker 1: You know? Like parkor over here is just like jumping
Speaker 1: around and like splits her bone out of her legs
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what the what are you doing? I
Speaker 1: feel like you should know you should be a little
Speaker 1: more conscious and then oh, I love Okay, I don't
Speaker 1: even think you've gotten there. I'll let you continue. Um okay.
Speaker 1: So then Sarah manages to kill a few of the
Speaker 1: cave dwellers. Then Becca and Sam get killed, and so
Speaker 1: now it's only Sarah in JUNO. Wait, but Sam's death
Speaker 1: was I feel bad because I laugh every time because
Speaker 1: she's like fucking up going to I'm going across and
Speaker 1: she like starts hooking up and and then she puts
Speaker 1: the knife in her mouth when the cage dweller comes
Speaker 1: at her, and I was like, Oh, she's gonna use
Speaker 1: a knife to like stab it, but then it splits
Speaker 1: her throat and then she just leads out. It was like, wait,
Speaker 1: what was the point of any of that. That's the
Speaker 1: other fun example of instant karma in this movie that
Speaker 1: I really thought was fun was like she's about to
Speaker 1: ditch all of her friends and then immediately it just
Speaker 1: it just blows up in her face in the worst
Speaker 1: possible way, and she wastes rope. I'm like, selfish, right,
Speaker 1: she done goofed? I think I might have misinterpreted that.
Speaker 1: I thought she was like trying to kind of martyr
Speaker 1: herself to like get but I don't know. That doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense. She was bailing. She was leaving just
Speaker 1: like freaked out. It was like I'm over this, I've
Speaker 1: been over this. She I think her pipe was like
Speaker 1: I don't really know most of the people on this
Speaker 1: trip very well, like come on. I think that was
Speaker 1: like park Or. Also sorry, I can't help but call
Speaker 1: her Parkor. But I felt like she was also like
Speaker 1: this dude, just like skirted out. We're like, where you bro,
Speaker 1: where are you going? She thinks she sees daylight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're like it's phosphorus in the rocks or something. Fact,
Speaker 1: now I know that you know which we're gonna do
Speaker 1: after this. Um okay. So Becca and Sam get killed
Speaker 1: and now it's only Sarah and Juno. They join up
Speaker 1: and Sarah is like, hey, Juno, I heard you were
Speaker 1: having an affair with my husband. Stab kind of stabs
Speaker 1: her in the leg and leaves her to be eaten
Speaker 1: by the cave people, which was I thought a more
Speaker 1: colder move than to just kill her. She's like, bitch,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to kill you. I'm gonna just let
Speaker 1: you fight in fear for your life. Also like why
Speaker 1: would she leave her behind? I mean, I understand why
Speaker 1: she was like, draw the attention to you so I
Speaker 1: can bounce, But it really felt very like Sarah's character
Speaker 1: was so hard to keep up with because I was like,
Speaker 1: what's your what is your intention going into this strip? Why? Why? Why?
Speaker 1: I had to be honest, there's like three blonde women
Speaker 1: in the cave, and it's so dark that sometimes I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know which blonde woman it is. I appreciate
Speaker 1: that they keep saying everybody's name very frequently, because I'm
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know if this is a protagonist
Speaker 1: blonde woman or an ancillary blond woman. Well, like you
Speaker 1: mentioned Derby, the director was like, yes, I gave the
Speaker 1: women different accents so we could tell them apart. And
Speaker 1: it's like that didn't work at all. It's like, have
Speaker 1: some more women of color in the group, that would help. Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly two thousand and five, black people weren't around yet
Speaker 1: at that point. What happened here, I really couldn't get,
Speaker 1: like one black British person, get Naomi what's her face?
Speaker 1: From twenty days later? She's great In twenty days later,
Speaker 1: I got to rewatch that. That's a good rewatch. I
Speaker 1: just rewatched very quarantine friendly. Yes, I'm and there's so
Speaker 1: few Naomi Harris, right, Naomie Harris, Yes, sweet Angel who
Speaker 1: she stopped aging. I think after twenty days later she
Speaker 1: looks exactly the same. Yes, Oh, she's in the new
Speaker 1: James Bond to Oh that's right. Yeah, um okay. So
Speaker 1: then they're then the ending in there, Jamie. Like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: there are two different two versions of the ending. There's
Speaker 1: the US cut, in which Sarah makes her escape. She
Speaker 1: finds the other exit, crawls on top of a pile
Speaker 1: of bones to get up out of the cave. I
Speaker 1: also feel like when she emerges through like the tiny
Speaker 1: little hole, that's going to be like how we all
Speaker 1: come out of quarantine. We're just like we're like popping
Speaker 1: out of the ground, seeing daylight for the first time
Speaker 1: in a while. We're all covered in blood, and gets
Speaker 1: like a mile away from our homes, then burst into
Speaker 1: tears like yeah real, yeah. Anyway, so she she gets out,
Speaker 1: she makes her way to the car, drives away a
Speaker 1: little bit, pulls over, vomits, and then she has a
Speaker 1: hallucination of of Juno being in the car with her,
Speaker 1: and then we smashed cut to black now that I
Speaker 1: think the same thing happens in the UK version. But
Speaker 1: then there's a little bit more. We smash cut back
Speaker 1: to the toy, back to reality, right where she had
Speaker 1: just hallucinated her escape. She wakes up. She sees like
Speaker 1: another hallucination of her daughter and a birthday cake, and
Speaker 1: then all the cave dwellers descend upon They dissent upon her,
Speaker 1: uh and then she presumably dies. I read that the
Speaker 1: US ending is the US ending because they did a
Speaker 1: screening in the US of the u K. And they
Speaker 1: were like, oh hell no that I remember reading quote.
Speaker 1: It was uber uber hopeless. Yes, because American movie go ours.
Speaker 1: Really they like a happy ending. We're very fragile. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I like the UK ending better. Same. I've
Speaker 1: watched the I watched the whole movie through with the
Speaker 1: American ending, then found out about the UK ending. I
Speaker 1: like it better. I like my ending the best, and
Speaker 1: my ending is Sarah and Juno both live. Sarah doesn't
Speaker 1: try to kill her friend. She's still mad at her,
Speaker 1: but she's like, come on, we'll deal with this on
Speaker 1: the surface. Let's get out of here. They apologize to
Speaker 1: the cave people for trespassing on their land. They're like,
Speaker 1: so sorry, we shouldn't have we should have never come.
Speaker 1: Are bad? Get them like a year's supply of animals.
Speaker 1: Open a small business. I want them to open a
Speaker 1: small business. Yes, yes they do. They start like a
Speaker 1: diner in the middle of the woods. Yeah. Uh well,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we will come
Speaker 1: right back and we're back. I want to give this
Speaker 1: movie props up top for I mean, in terms of
Speaker 1: the metric we use the Bechdel test, this movie really
Speaker 1: couldn't fare better. It's mostly women talking to women about
Speaker 1: surviving the whole cave situation. Um, I think the one
Speaker 1: but but the one, like, the one male presence looming
Speaker 1: over this movie is her husband, and I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's it's not certainly not
Speaker 1: the most egregious example of this, and so I wasn't
Speaker 1: like extremely put off. But Caitlin, I feel like you
Speaker 1: already kind of alluded to this, was that the whole
Speaker 1: element of like the jealousy and the suspicion and that
Speaker 1: kind of translating to basically leaving Juno for dead at
Speaker 1: the peak of the movie when we don't really know
Speaker 1: enough about the husband and I feel like the movie
Speaker 1: just assumes that the husband was an awesome guy, which
Speaker 1: is like, well, we don't know that. We see him
Speaker 1: for two seconds and he's being distant and he was cheating,
Speaker 1: and he was cheating on her. So it's like I
Speaker 1: feel like it was like a slight writer telling on
Speaker 1: themselves situation where it's like, well, he was her husband,
Speaker 1: so I'm sure that he was. It was just you know,
Speaker 1: he was tricked. He was you know, because women, you know,
Speaker 1: women be tricking men and whatever. One of the oldest
Speaker 1: tropes in the book. But I didn't think it's interesting that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really necessarily want them to burn
Speaker 1: any time in this movie, like talking about this husband,
Speaker 1: I don't really care, but it does seem to kind
Speaker 1: of assume that, like he was a great guy and
Speaker 1: therefore all of the blame for this infidelity is on Juno. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about that. He is kind of looming.
Speaker 1: He is kind of looming over the movie because we
Speaker 1: think of it. I mean, I really love how they
Speaker 1: told the moments, like I feel like it was so
Speaker 1: to the point, like we did not suck around, we
Speaker 1: didn't get little lovey dovey moments, but that moment where
Speaker 1: he walks over to Juno when they get out the raft,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you are so shady. Oh no,
Speaker 1: And then Beth catches on and I'm like, mm hmm,
Speaker 1: that that's kind of shady too for not saying anything.
Speaker 1: I feel like a good friend should say something personally,
Speaker 1: you know, like if someone if one of my best
Speaker 1: friends in this trio knew you were cheating or my
Speaker 1: husband was cheating on me with other friends, mit, you
Speaker 1: better tell me. You know, you gotta tell each other things,
Speaker 1: and you have to believe each other and not not system.
Speaker 1: So I'm on life system. Juno is clearly like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it takes two to tango in this situation and the
Speaker 1: friend betrayal, Like that's the worst, that's a horrible thing
Speaker 1: to do. But I do. But but I don't think
Speaker 1: that this movie really recognizes the two to tango situ
Speaker 1: vation unless Sarah is so like Galaxy braining her own grief,
Speaker 1: which we know she isn't that She's like, well, I
Speaker 1: can't hold my husband accountable at this point, so I'm
Speaker 1: shifting the blame. I don't. I don't know what's really
Speaker 1: coming again, like I understand Sarah's anger and feelings of
Speaker 1: betrayal when she finds out that Juno was having this affair,
Speaker 1: but to the extent that you're going to let her
Speaker 1: die and be eaten alive by these like cannibalistic cave dwellers,
Speaker 1: Sarby you were saying, and like I do kind of
Speaker 1: I'm kind of assuming that this is what Neil Marshall
Speaker 1: is going for, is that like this experience has like
Speaker 1: hardened Sarah so much that it's like, you know, you
Speaker 1: have wronged me, and like this is a game of survival,
Speaker 1: and like I don't need you to survive anymore, and
Speaker 1: you've wronged me, so you know, fuck you. I'm leaving
Speaker 1: to steal your car. I guess, yeah, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it's I'm kind of I was
Speaker 1: kind of glad that like that was I mean, it
Speaker 1: is definitely a thing, and it also I feel like
Speaker 1: it's compounded by the fact that Natalie Mendoza is the
Speaker 1: only woman of color in this entire movie, and she
Speaker 1: is like the villain of the story, and she is
Speaker 1: like this temptress and she is you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of negative stereotypes like all foisted upon
Speaker 1: this one character. She's also the only American character, but
Speaker 1: American people are horrible and they'll probably steal your husband.
Speaker 1: But I mean just also the fact that she was
Speaker 1: the one to like trick them, like, we're not going
Speaker 1: to the cave where we're like safe and that's actually
Speaker 1: been charted. We're discovering this nuke and her what she
Speaker 1: tells Sarah is that you know, I was doing this
Speaker 1: for you. We were going to name the cave after you,
Speaker 1: Like this whole thing is so that you can help
Speaker 1: get over your grief or I don't even know what
Speaker 1: logic was. I will say that line made me laugh
Speaker 1: a lot because I'm like, imagine naming a cave Sarah,
Speaker 1: Like what, welcome to the Sarah Cave. You're just like
Speaker 1: his name sucks. Let's let's pick another. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was looking into and we sort of talked about
Speaker 1: it already, but like the casting process for this movie,
Speaker 1: because I was curious of like, wow, was this a
Speaker 1: movie that was written for women specifically? And it wasn't originally,
Speaker 1: which which I think is kind of interesting and like
Speaker 1: harkens back to stuff we've talked about before. Where it
Speaker 1: was supposed to be a cast of men and women.
Speaker 1: But then Neil Marshall's business partner said, hey, horror movies
Speaker 1: never have all women, so marketing, and Neil Marshall was like, okay,
Speaker 1: and then and then it says and again this is
Speaker 1: we're about to give him like a trophy for the
Speaker 1: bare minimum. But it does. It was said in a
Speaker 1: lot of press at the time that after deciding Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to cast you know, all women in this movie,
Speaker 1: he talked to women. He knew, I know, like the
Speaker 1: thing that male screen writers never ever do. He's like,
Speaker 1: I asked for their advice, and I asked, you know,
Speaker 1: what are things that they say and talk about. I'm like, what,
Speaker 1: We're like a creature you've never delved again, Also, give
Speaker 1: the damn movie to a woman's direct and to write
Speaker 1: and to oversee, like how many men were behind that
Speaker 1: camera making that movie. That's I want to know. I'm saying.
Speaker 1: For the for the sequel, the editor, the male editor
Speaker 1: of the first movie directed the sequel, which is like,
Speaker 1: come but but I do. I mean, it's like, I
Speaker 1: mean as far as I mean, Kittlie, and you've talked
Speaker 1: about this before. In terms of like your classes of Like,
Speaker 1: if you are a male writer that wants to write
Speaker 1: about women, the least you can do is do your homework,
Speaker 1: like and talk to women. And I don't know, the
Speaker 1: interactions with women, especially like the hanging out at the
Speaker 1: beginning and stuff like that, like it felt pretty authentic.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was like light impressed. I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, Nel Marshall talked to a woman about this,
Speaker 1: just imagine. Yeah. I like that they were all hungover too,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I like that they all got like wasted
Speaker 1: and smoked weed, low key and all that. And I
Speaker 1: was like there were moments I was like, these are
Speaker 1: a women, but I really didn't think deeper on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like that we're going to make them petty. Like
Speaker 1: Sarah's character was just so much more of a tool
Speaker 1: than an actual person, Like she was just there to
Speaker 1: like help set shut up and make things happen. Because
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, if you are the type
Speaker 1: of person to just go and kill your friend that
Speaker 1: your husband cheated on you with, you know, a bitch,
Speaker 1: maybe you deserve to be cheated on. I said it.
Speaker 1: I just don't like, I mean, I like that you
Speaker 1: have a depiction of like these complicated female friendships where
Speaker 1: like one of them is doing something wrong and like
Speaker 1: going behind her friends back and having this affair. Like
Speaker 1: people are complex, people make horrible mistakes, people do really
Speaker 1: bad things. But like again the movie, like the suggestion
Speaker 1: that she's like, well, I know we were best friends
Speaker 1: up until five minutes ago, but now I'm going to
Speaker 1: kill you. Um, I just the thing for me. Like
Speaker 1: the first half or maybe even the first like sixty
Speaker 1: minutes of this movie, I think are like really good
Speaker 1: for looking at it through our lens of Like women
Speaker 1: are shown being very capable. We see them having physical strength,
Speaker 1: we see them being athletic, like all this stuff they're doing,
Speaker 1: I like that. Um it seems like there was care taken.
Speaker 1: And like each woman in the in the group has
Speaker 1: um like specialty that is not like Mary Sue, that
Speaker 1: is like established in their character that is able to
Speaker 1: move the action forward. Where there's like someone who's a
Speaker 1: medical student and so she's able to do first aid
Speaker 1: when someone's like gets busted, and like everyone has some
Speaker 1: knowledge that is able to assist in moving forward, which
Speaker 1: is like good right, And you know women don't always
Speaker 1: get there for sure, and like we see them like
Speaker 1: have to fight off the cave dwellers in a way
Speaker 1: that is not sexualized, like one of the like one
Speaker 1: of the major tropes of horror movies and especially like
Speaker 1: slasher movies is women being sexualized and then also being
Speaker 1: shamed for being sexual so you don't get any of that.
Speaker 1: They have like outdoorsy skills. We see Sarah like she
Speaker 1: figures out that there's like I think, what's kerosene in
Speaker 1: an old lantern. She uses that to light a torch,
Speaker 1: which she has to do like a flint kind of
Speaker 1: like that was cool. I was like, oh, that's where
Speaker 1: I would have died. I guess right exactly. So we
Speaker 1: see that. We see Becca is the one who crosses
Speaker 1: like the ceiling of the ravine and like all that
Speaker 1: upper body string she needs to and you can tell
Speaker 1: how much she's struggling, but it's still like you believe
Speaker 1: that she would be capable of that. Then it's Beth
Speaker 1: who like notices the cave painting and like interprets it
Speaker 1: because everyone else is just like this is nothing, and
Speaker 1: she's like no, wait, like let's read this. Let's like
Speaker 1: look at these clues. The first yeah, the first chunk
Speaker 1: of the movie, it's all this really cool stuff that
Speaker 1: you see these women do, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I and I and I didn't exactly remember how things ended,
Speaker 1: so I was like really getting all geared up to
Speaker 1: be like this is like a feminist masterpiece, Like definitely
Speaker 1: there's not enough diversity. It's five of the six women
Speaker 1: are white, ry heteronormative, in spite of seeming to like
Speaker 1: suggest I thought something was being suggested between Holly and Juno,
Speaker 1: but then it's kind of dropped. I don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did the moment, yeah, And I was hoping that
Speaker 1: they would just make it explicit of like oh, these
Speaker 1: are two either gay or bisexual characters. Awesome, but but
Speaker 1: then they kind of just drop it and they're like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. And then Holly like even it's like no
Speaker 1: no no, no, no, no no no, I want to
Speaker 1: have a lot of hetero babies, and you're just like okay, Holly, Like, um, so,
Speaker 1: I think there's like some really cool subversions of the
Speaker 1: horror genre that we're seeing in this movie. But then
Speaker 1: man gets fridged. Man Yes, yeah, he and the only
Speaker 1: man we see, or at least the only man right
Speaker 1: gets killed almost instantly, so it's it's a lot of
Speaker 1: like cool subversions. But then like by act three the script,
Speaker 1: this writer was like, oh wait, I forgot that women
Speaker 1: are really petty. I have to write this into the movie.
Speaker 1: They're also in a huge vagina there. I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: just can't say it enough. I like, I just feel
Speaker 1: so just I don't know, like I think this is
Speaker 1: a very inventive, subversive horror movie, but like men making
Speaker 1: horror movies, they literally cannot help themselves. Like they can't
Speaker 1: help themselves. There's a huge vaginal metaphor in every single
Speaker 1: one down to that. I mean, the pool full of
Speaker 1: blood at the heart of that. I mean it's just
Speaker 1: like it's like that's the ter we get it, honey,
Speaker 1: Like just call your mom, like I don't know what
Speaker 1: to tell you, to tell you. I also feel like
Speaker 1: usually when we see women who are hallucinating in films
Speaker 1: or like you know, are seeing things that we the
Speaker 1: audience are also seeing with her, that usually it's men
Speaker 1: like you're just crazy, you're making it up, or it's
Speaker 1: like some old or a woman mother character who's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know you're just seeing things. But I think seeing
Speaker 1: everyone doing that with her was also kind of breaking
Speaker 1: that stereotype of like sometimes people just don't believe people,
Speaker 1: like I think that. I kind of like that we
Speaker 1: were seeing everyone, well Juneo gaslighting her, but even Beth
Speaker 1: is like, you're just seeing things. It's okay. But I
Speaker 1: was like, it's why don't they They should believe her.
Speaker 1: I feel like they shell also be more sympathetic because
Speaker 1: she just lost her child and her husband, which in
Speaker 1: the griefing process, a year is like a second, Like
Speaker 1: that's really not a lot of time from like what
Speaker 1: your life was going to be. The rest of it
Speaker 1: then turns into nothing, which I was also like, they
Speaker 1: don't spend a lot of time on the grief. I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yeah, that thing that happened, right, You
Speaker 1: get like flashbacks of her having kind of like dreams
Speaker 1: or visions of like the accident and stuff, but we
Speaker 1: really don't know. We don't learn anything about her daughter
Speaker 1: or her husband before they die, so it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: I thought that that I don't know, like that is
Speaker 1: kind of in terms of how she is gaslighted by
Speaker 1: her friends. I also thought it was like they were
Speaker 1: dismissive of her because of her grief, and also because
Speaker 1: they're like, well, you're just you're just being like on
Speaker 1: edge because a cave just collapsed on your head two
Speaker 1: seconds ago. And I'm like, well, that's a great reason
Speaker 1: to be on edge. But like you know, there, that
Speaker 1: was one that was another subversion. There's some I mean,
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten to the parts of this movie that
Speaker 1: I don't love so much, but that was a subversion
Speaker 1: that I thought was fairly effective of I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was thinking at the beginning of this movie, where
Speaker 1: something deeply traumatic robs a woman of her family. Instantly
Speaker 1: I went to Midsummer uh movie that I think couldn't
Speaker 1: handle that plot point any worse if it wanted to.
Speaker 1: Like I just the opening sequence of Midsummer and this
Speaker 1: is like some of the most irresponsive, bull like treatment
Speaker 1: of mental illness I've ever seen in movies period. But
Speaker 1: I think this movie toes the dealing with grief as
Speaker 1: plot I think better than a lot of horror movies
Speaker 1: tend to. And it's like, I'm not a huge horror
Speaker 1: efficient out of there. I'm sure there's other movies that
Speaker 1: deal with it well, but I feel like there is
Speaker 1: maybe a tendency and correct me if I'm wrong. But
Speaker 1: a tendency to treat grief as like a hindrance, where
Speaker 1: like I think that you know what Sarah is going through,
Speaker 1: actually ends up kind of serving her in this situation.
Speaker 1: It motivates her need to survive even though you know
Speaker 1: she's dealing with it. It doesn't prevent her from handling
Speaker 1: the situation at hand, even though her friends seem to
Speaker 1: think it is. We find out almost immediately like no,
Speaker 1: she is not, you know, like she's not being unreasonable.
Speaker 1: What she's seeing is there. She's telling the truth, and
Speaker 1: it works against the friends to disbelieve her because they
Speaker 1: think that she is just like in a bad place.
Speaker 1: So I thought that that Platfoin was was kind of cool,
Speaker 1: of like she's going through this very heavy, horrible thing,
Speaker 1: but it's not, you know, it doesn't make it impossible
Speaker 1: for her to survive. It actually kind of helps her survive.
Speaker 1: Everyone else is kind of like I don't know, we
Speaker 1: don't really know anyone else's backstory except part of Juno's
Speaker 1: only because of the husband and other than that, like
Speaker 1: even Sarah's like trying to find out like what everyone
Speaker 1: else like has kind of back home, they like have
Speaker 1: very small talk like so, what man do you have
Speaker 1: back home? Which I was like, are you just assuming
Speaker 1: everyone has a man back home? What if they have
Speaker 1: a couple of partners? What if they have a same
Speaker 1: sex partner? What if? What? And also why is everyone
Speaker 1: identifying as this year? Like there was like obviously no diversity,
Speaker 1: but I'm suial. Marshall's like, div who what, I don't
Speaker 1: know what. I don't know anything. I don't know anything.
Speaker 1: Asked me in fifteen years and I'll say I've been
Speaker 1: doing it all wrong like everyone else. But yeah, I agree,
Speaker 1: I think think that it definitely is. It's cool, like
Speaker 1: if I were to put aside, like my deeper thoughts
Speaker 1: that we've discussed about, you know how, it's kind of
Speaker 1: weird that she kind of lippd at you know. At
Speaker 1: one point it's like, wait, so now you're now you're
Speaker 1: a total badass. He's like, you know, covered in blood
Speaker 1: and you're kind of a cavewoman who has no words anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know. I guess if I was
Speaker 1: grieving and this was just where I was, It's like, alright,
Speaker 1: no time to fucking play anymore. Let's fucking do this.
Speaker 1: Do you know, get out of my way, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't make a whole lot of sense of it.
Speaker 1: I guess my main thing with that whole scenario is
Speaker 1: I wish that when Sarah did reveal that she's like
Speaker 1: I saw someone I thought I saw before, and now
Speaker 1: I definitely saw it and I'm not making this up.
Speaker 1: I'm not imagining it. And they're all like, nope, the
Speaker 1: dark place tricks on you and there's nothing. You didn't
Speaker 1: see anything, And I just I really wish like even
Speaker 1: if they were incredulous, they should have still been like, well,
Speaker 1: what did you what did you see or what do
Speaker 1: you think you saw or what did it look like?
Speaker 1: And like, I just I wish that we had seen
Speaker 1: just them making more of an effort to believe her.
Speaker 1: I mean that is that's almost like a story bump too,
Speaker 1: because it's like, at this point, aren't they all aware
Speaker 1: that they are in completely uncharted territory, Like it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of like the counterproductive to assume that anything you
Speaker 1: would see is not there if it's like, well, what
Speaker 1: do you know, no one's ever been here, you know,
Speaker 1: Like but they also like no one knows how to
Speaker 1: deal with anxiety and I hate to bring that piece
Speaker 1: of ship movie back up again, but mids Omar was
Speaker 1: just like that, like they you know, her boyfriend had
Speaker 1: no idea how to deal with her anxiety disorder or
Speaker 1: she bipolar in the film, but like in this it's
Speaker 1: like no one knows how to deal with it, which
Speaker 1: I think spoke to something it's like as someone with anxiety,
Speaker 1: like often people will just assume that I'm being dramatic
Speaker 1: or being sensitive, or I'm just seeing things. So I
Speaker 1: felt like when they were like, no, no, it's fine,
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's really real. I mean, the conversation has
Speaker 1: changed a lot now, just in time. Regardless off that
Speaker 1: film really happened, could happen in real life, like I think,
Speaker 1: you know, as a kid, or even up until a
Speaker 1: few years ago, people still will like, you know, just
Speaker 1: assume I'm yeah, being dramatic or overreacting. But now there's
Speaker 1: so much more compassion I think in the world, or
Speaker 1: in at least in our world. And and so I
Speaker 1: think that now if that movie is written, I think
Speaker 1: there would be more like, well, wait, tell us what's
Speaker 1: going on. But I think it kind of it seems
Speaker 1: very real that they were all just like no, No,
Speaker 1: you're just seeing things, you know, regardless that Yeah, like
Speaker 1: you said, like they were in uncharted territory, So it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean anything goes out here, like fucking Cageweller, Sasquash,
Speaker 1: anything you name it, which they do make a joke
Speaker 1: about earlier though, like it's probably Sasquatch, and I'm like, girl,
Speaker 1: don't play because cuts to like sixty minutes into this film.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be a lot You're not gonna be laughing
Speaker 1: about that. I just yeah, I mean, like they at
Speaker 1: this point, I think it's before this that they find
Speaker 1: the cave painting, and they had found the old equipment,
Speaker 1: so it's like, well, things aren't what they see. You thought,
Speaker 1: no one's been done here before, and you've were proven wrong,
Speaker 1: So why don't you listen to your friend? Why don't
Speaker 1: you open yourself up to this possibility, open yourself up
Speaker 1: like you've opened up this vagina of a cave and
Speaker 1: just embark with it. When I was watching this, I
Speaker 1: actually have like a game I play internally in movies
Speaker 1: with myself that sounds really dirty, like I try to
Speaker 1: guess like the character's zodiac sign, And so I felt like,
Speaker 1: what you know. I was like, she is a stubborn,
Speaker 1: relentless tourists with a Gemini moon because taurus Is are
Speaker 1: historically stubborn. As someone who dates a Taurus, I am
Speaker 1: a Tauris. Really, yeah, I gotta know more about your
Speaker 1: virtue because if you don't, are you a stubborn person?
Speaker 1: You're stubborn? Yeah for some things. Yeah, I can be pretty,
Speaker 1: I can be chill, and I contain multitude. I wonder
Speaker 1: what your moon is. Yeah, what's your moon? I don't
Speaker 1: know what that means. So we're gonna have to look
Speaker 1: it up. I'm going to find your birth chart. We'll
Speaker 1: do this after UM. But then with Sarah, I was
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what everyone's signs were. And then
Speaker 1: also as I feel like it's the equivalent to like,
Speaker 1: you know, when people want to know my race, for example,
Speaker 1: it gets like them trying to like box me into
Speaker 1: like what they know about them. So I try. I'm
Speaker 1: very like, um, discriminating with zodiac signs. I'm like that
Speaker 1: bit just for sure, or Scorpio. She's got the loving edge,
Speaker 1: you know, the loving edge, but at the same time
Speaker 1: she will cut you very fast. Um. But some of
Speaker 1: them were you know, a couple of them are definitely
Speaker 1: sagittarius a is, So I just was like, don't let
Speaker 1: them lead. You know, they want to be adventurous, but
Speaker 1: they're also going to be really indecisive and just be
Speaker 1: on their own. I think Sam was definitely a sadge.
Speaker 1: They want to be out there, but she was just
Speaker 1: a scared little shit at the end of the day
Speaker 1: and was like indecisive and was keeping her feelings or
Speaker 1: was like letting her feelings overrun everything else without seeing
Speaker 1: like logic. Anyways, that game can go very deep in
Speaker 1: my brain and then I'm like, what movie am I
Speaker 1: watching right now? I could listen to this for every
Speaker 1: movie that's ever come out. If we need a spinoff
Speaker 1: back delcast Um, Zodiac or I don't even know, just
Speaker 1: the full like movie character, what's your placement? Yeah, um, well,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back
Speaker 1: for more discussion and we're back. So another thing kind
Speaker 1: of along the similar lines of what we were talking
Speaker 1: about in terms of kind of like women being pigeonholed
Speaker 1: as being petty. That ties into a horror movie, the
Speaker 1: convention of the horror movie kind of justifying why people
Speaker 1: die or get killed right. So like in a lot
Speaker 1: of slasher movies, it's like, if you're a teenager who's
Speaker 1: sexually active, you die. The classics. The classics, I feel
Speaker 1: like a lot of time men having too much hubris
Speaker 1: or I just won't bring a map. People who won't
Speaker 1: bring a map in general, they get they get killed right.
Speaker 1: Excessive pride, recklessness that will get a man killed. Um.
Speaker 1: I feel like oftentimes a woman being kind of oblivious
Speaker 1: or maybe even like to nurturing or to trusting, or
Speaker 1: just a failure to exercise logic overall will be what
Speaker 1: gets a woman killed. And this rang true especially for
Speaker 1: Beth beth death scene where Juno has just fought off
Speaker 1: two I think it's like two different cave dwellers. She
Speaker 1: kills one of them by stabbing it several times, which
Speaker 1: is really cool, right, and then someone sneaks up on
Speaker 1: her and it's Beth. But Juno doesn't realize this until
Speaker 1: it's too late, and she turns around and stabs Beth
Speaker 1: in the throat. Timmy fair, isn't that like an art
Speaker 1: student or something? I mean, she's she's the one who
Speaker 1: knows what the cave paintings means, so I was assuming
Speaker 1: and like, oh, so she's kind of like she's an
Speaker 1: artsy type. She's not a survivalist, but she's like she
Speaker 1: was whitewater rafting. She she's lunking. Like all these women
Speaker 1: are like seem to be very competent at these like
Speaker 1: extreme sports that they're doing. So for me, like Beth, what,
Speaker 1: like wouldn't she have just witnessed Juno killing these like
Speaker 1: cave dwellers and like, wouldn't she approach with caution and
Speaker 1: like exercise some logic and not just sneak up on
Speaker 1: someone who would be very easily startled. I agree, but
Speaker 1: I just didn't interpret that as gendered. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't think it was like a very informed or thoughtful decision,
Speaker 1: but it didn't. I don't know, I didn't read I
Speaker 1: read that as like thoughtless but not gendered, especially because
Speaker 1: I think it would be one thing if if many
Speaker 1: of the other characters were men and they died in
Speaker 1: a way that wasn't so like they're oblivious. I would
Speaker 1: have read that as more gendered. But it's still But
Speaker 1: I think it is a gender trope in other horror
Speaker 1: movies with mixed casts. So I was disappointed to see
Speaker 1: a pop up in this movie. I mean, I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess that to me, like that kind of certain
Speaker 1: I mean, that certainly serves to further villainized Juno, even
Speaker 1: though like when I saw that, I'm like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's like really unfortunate. And of course she's going to
Speaker 1: lie about it because you don't want people to get
Speaker 1: mad at you, and they're already mad at you for
Speaker 1: bringing them into an unmarked cave. But like, and so
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like that's that ultimately, that
Speaker 1: decision like further villainized Juno where I don't know, I
Speaker 1: just didn't care about Beth and then and then and
Speaker 1: then and then when she was dying, she was just
Speaker 1: you know, gossiping to the grave. So she was hanging
Speaker 1: in there though, because a while passed when she came
Speaker 1: up and she was like, I was like, oh you're
Speaker 1: still around, Like how did you still literally drowning in
Speaker 1: your own blood for the last Like so this isn't
Speaker 1: and that you can still speak enough to gossip with
Speaker 1: your friend. Yeah, part of me has to admire it,
Speaker 1: but that was a very bizarre choice. Yeah, I do agree, though, Caitlin.
Speaker 1: You made a good point about how it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of um and derby words. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of cool ship that happened with the
Speaker 1: characters up until the Cage Dwellers came out, and then
Speaker 1: the writer was like, oh ship, yeah, women are let's
Speaker 1: do all these things. And who knows because I'm sure
Speaker 1: what you know as the writer listens to this episode,
Speaker 1: that they're gonna feel very defensive And no, I didn't
Speaker 1: think that, but it's like, but there's something to be
Speaker 1: said and that you know, the same conversations happening about
Speaker 1: white supremacy and the covert and overt behaviors that we
Speaker 1: all harbor, I as a black person harbor, and that
Speaker 1: you know, it's like we harbor a lot of sexism.
Speaker 1: And I think the writer maybe thinking like, well, this
Speaker 1: is you know, women can keep it cool until she
Speaker 1: goes down, and then they're gonna turn on each other.
Speaker 1: They're gonna gossip to the bloody grave, They're gonna stab
Speaker 1: each other in the leg with a pick. But I
Speaker 1: think that, like if I hope that the writer hears that,
Speaker 1: and that Neil Marshall hears that, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: why why is it that when women are saving and
Speaker 1: protecting themselves like that, they actually just fully abandon all
Speaker 1: the rules, right, they were like rule number two, don't
Speaker 1: leave each other, and then they all left each other.
Speaker 1: There was no like, you know, Juno couldn't be in
Speaker 1: leadership anymore for everyone, which I thought made sense for
Speaker 1: her character because she was obviously like going through her
Speaker 1: own ship. She's like, I can do this cave trip
Speaker 1: with Sarah. Oh my god, no I can't. I'm a
Speaker 1: horrible person, but I just need to like make up
Speaker 1: for it. But everyone else it was just it was
Speaker 1: just weird. It was like all the character strengths were
Speaker 1: abandoned as soon as the Cagewellers, which I think obviously
Speaker 1: what happened. No one's going to do it perfectly, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess when I think about it now, that was
Speaker 1: obviously when the movie shifted, but the characters greatly shifted
Speaker 1: and the writer like abandoned, and it like it does
Speaker 1: imply that, yeah, like women at their like core or whatever,
Speaker 1: like when you're down to that survivalist core, that these
Speaker 1: are like inherent behaviors where which sucks. And it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like, yeah, more often when
Speaker 1: you have like a majority male cast. It's like the
Speaker 1: hero jumps out when you're like brought to your you know,
Speaker 1: Revenant Survivalist. I haven't seen that movie, but like whatever
Speaker 1: you get inside a bear and you live man, because
Speaker 1: that's what you do. That is that what happens? I
Speaker 1: don't know. But more like like I just and it
Speaker 1: does seem like I I don't know. I would be
Speaker 1: surprised if Neil Marshall was like explicitly thinking, like you're
Speaker 1: saying Derby like, well, women are like this, so I'm
Speaker 1: going to write that. But but it is just like
Speaker 1: another weird example of someone kind of telling on themselves,
Speaker 1: possibly unintentionally. Men men be telling on themselves. Man, all
Speaker 1: the stuff they get me a hat that says men
Speaker 1: be telling on themselves, come to smirch. The next big
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to touch on, and I foreshadowed this
Speaker 1: a little, is the demonization of disability in horror movies.
Speaker 1: We've talked to some extent in past episodes about how
Speaker 1: mental illness is demonized in horror movies. A lot. We've
Speaker 1: talked how aging tends to be demonized, especially as women age.
Speaker 1: It's often included as like right and the and the
Speaker 1: vivich um An Old women will be a part of
Speaker 1: the horror imagery. What we haven't talked about really yet
Speaker 1: is how disability is also demonized in horror movies. Um
Speaker 1: Where because in this movie, the cave dwellers are blind.
Speaker 1: This is a pretty I mean, you see it in
Speaker 1: a few other horror movies. The quiet Place comes to mind,
Speaker 1: and you know, any any number of disabilities will be
Speaker 1: used and ascribed to the killer or the monster or
Speaker 1: whatever it is that is causing terror for the protagonist,
Speaker 1: which just goes back to the I mean, part of
Speaker 1: why so many horror movies seem so horrifically dated when
Speaker 1: you watch them back later is because the villain is
Speaker 1: very often just what is the example of the other
Speaker 1: that the writer and the filmmaker is threatened by, which
Speaker 1: is I feel like there's a lot of racially motivated
Speaker 1: villains that we've seen in horror movies over the years
Speaker 1: because that is what the white writers thinks is going
Speaker 1: to be scary to people. That's where vagina mouth comes from.
Speaker 1: That's like there's there and and yeah, I think, um
Speaker 1: mental illness and disability in general kind of goes into
Speaker 1: that general like you know, it's the writers iming like, well,
Speaker 1: people aren't comfortable with this, and I have no interest
Speaker 1: in normalizing it, so let me basically weaponize people's own
Speaker 1: prejudices and affirm them through creating this monster. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: have a few quotes from a piece I found on
Speaker 1: medium by Laura Elliott. It's entitled What's so Scary about Disability?
Speaker 1: Laura discusses how there are recurring tropes and horror movies
Speaker 1: that basically say disability equals evil and disfigurement equals morally bankrupt,
Speaker 1: and how a lot of these tropes and horror films
Speaker 1: are are rooted in and date back to a lot
Speaker 1: of old literature, religious texts, folk tales, fairy tales, things
Speaker 1: like that. She says, quote. Perhaps you might think that
Speaker 1: these stereotypes are no big deal, but the fact is
Speaker 1: that the horror genre is the only genre in which
Speaker 1: disabled people are regularly represented at all. In a report
Speaker 1: by the Media Diversity and Social Change Initiative found that
Speaker 1: of the top one movies that year, only two point
Speaker 1: four percent of disabled characters spoke or had names, despite
Speaker 1: the fact that one in five people around the world
Speaker 1: are disabled. So there's so little visibility and representation of
Speaker 1: people with disabilities in movies, and it's so rare that
Speaker 1: you see any kind of respectful or responsible representation because
Speaker 1: disability is so often again ascribed to the villains and
Speaker 1: horror movies, and that's really the only visibility you get.
Speaker 1: And then another quote from this same article says, quote,
Speaker 1: it's worth remembering that while horror entertainment frequently depicts disabled
Speaker 1: people negatively, there's essentially no other popular media to counteract
Speaker 1: these depictions. While there are countless disabled and disfigured people
Speaker 1: portrayed as killers and villains, we rarely ever get to
Speaker 1: be the heroes, and frequent negative representation breeds ongoing stigma
Speaker 1: and prejudice. End quote. So I mean, historically and film,
Speaker 1: this has just been unequivocally true in film. I mean,
Speaker 1: this movie came out fifteen years ago, movies like a
Speaker 1: Quiet Place about two years ago. I've been lightly encouraged
Speaker 1: in recent years of their being more representation of disabled
Speaker 1: people that are played by disabled actors as well. And
Speaker 1: it isn't just I mean, I think there's it's basically
Speaker 1: a trope of of a very famous actor playing a
Speaker 1: disabled character in order to get an Oscar nomination like,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty common trope. But um, I will say
Speaker 1: in a quiet place, and I literally I literally just
Speaker 1: watched it for the first time last week. But um,
Speaker 1: the daughter in that movie is deaf preteen played by
Speaker 1: a deaf actress, Milicent Simmons, And that character, I mean,
Speaker 1: is like one of the central characters. Her disability isn't
Speaker 1: played for evil or jokes, and it ends up actually
Speaker 1: kind of being something that she is able to, you know,
Speaker 1: work to her and her family's advantage in the story.
Speaker 1: So I am gent other And this is an example
Speaker 1: that is in let me be clear, not a very
Speaker 1: good movie, but one that I have seen before. Did
Speaker 1: anyone watch Unfriended Dark Web? Yes? I did not see it,
Speaker 1: so I've seen them both. I really enjoyed the Unfriended franchise.
Speaker 1: It is so silly. But um, in the second Unfriended
Speaker 1: and it is the worst one Friended twist, everyone's to
Speaker 1: hack her. But but there is a lead character that
Speaker 1: is deaf. She is a romantic interest. She has a
Speaker 1: whole arc. The part is played by a deaf actress,
Speaker 1: and her disability isn't leveraged against her. She is a
Speaker 1: character that exists in this story and yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: we don't need to get into it too much, like
Speaker 1: she and her boyfriend are kind of like there's a
Speaker 1: communication issues, but I thought it was dealt with pretty
Speaker 1: respectfully and so even in bad movies, you know, like there,
Speaker 1: but but I don't, you know, I don't think The
Speaker 1: Descent really qualifies as a movie that is handling this
Speaker 1: well at all. And yeah, I think, well overall, I'd
Speaker 1: be interested to hear from our listeners with disabilities on
Speaker 1: how because I think this movie isn't the absolute worst
Speaker 1: offender of demonizing disability in the horror genre. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I just i'd be interested to hear our listeners perspectives
Speaker 1: on that just kind of in this movie. And then
Speaker 1: as a whole um friend of the cast. Kristin Lopez
Speaker 1: has done some really great writing on this as well,
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll link some of her articles. It's definitely
Speaker 1: not a lot of solid ally ship from the other
Speaker 1: woman with her in this, and I think that's like,
Speaker 1: I mean a big part of what we're seeing in
Speaker 1: like the BLM movement is like how important ally ship
Speaker 1: is because like disabled people in this specific converse station
Speaker 1: can continue to like advocate and fight for the rights,
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's like, how
Speaker 1: is everyone going to show up? How are they going
Speaker 1: to help make space? How are they going to help learn?
Speaker 1: And so on? And I think that, yeah, this movie,
Speaker 1: I think it's like a d and not an F
Speaker 1: and effort for ally ship. And I think Beth is
Speaker 1: the only reason why the greed went up in any sort. Um,
Speaker 1: even if she does get you know, chatty Cathy at
Speaker 1: the end and wants to get um. I wanted to
Speaker 1: bring up this book that um. Actually Alex Jacob's Got
Speaker 1: Me Once, House of Psychotic Woman and Autobiographical Topography of
Speaker 1: female neurosis and horror and exploitation Films. And it's a
Speaker 1: really dense and a really interesting formatted book. But I
Speaker 1: really like it because I've also thought more not so
Speaker 1: much on the physical disability side of it, but more
Speaker 1: of like the like mental disorder side of things, Just
Speaker 1: like as I explored my own anxiety and depression and
Speaker 1: mood swings through my twenties and seeing in movies and
Speaker 1: like my friends did that to me, I would be
Speaker 1: so mad, why are they treating? And then they cart
Speaker 1: you know, the protagonist still stands with them at that
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, bit, you should have my back
Speaker 1: when I'm having a panic attack. Don't demonize me and
Speaker 1: like isolate me in this um. But the book like
Speaker 1: dives into yeah, different films, mostly horror films, and you know,
Speaker 1: like Rosemary's Baby is a great fucking example of a
Speaker 1: time where we totally isolate someone who's like experiencing all
Speaker 1: these like you know, legitimate things within her female body.
Speaker 1: But then also you know, I as being possessed at
Speaker 1: the same time with the demon baby. Um. But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think movies like that, and like Ginger
Speaker 1: Snaps is a great example too of like talking about
Speaker 1: like teenage girls coming into their own and everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're just having your period. I mean they become awarewolf
Speaker 1: but also you know, having that, and so I think
Speaker 1: that I like when movies do that, Like you were saying,
Speaker 1: Jamie at the Quiet Place, how that ends up working
Speaker 1: to the families benefit. Um, we're actually like works with
Speaker 1: the story. But you know, like Midsummer, you know, I
Speaker 1: know that guy tries to fucking talk about mental health stuff,
Speaker 1: but like god, he sucks at it, and I it's
Speaker 1: just it's for me. It's like it's a lot of
Speaker 1: like what I've experienced, you know, I think what I
Speaker 1: I paid a lot of attention to good intention shitty
Speaker 1: impact a lot lately, and that guy is the epitome
Speaker 1: of yeah, good intention, he wants to bring awareness to this,
Speaker 1: but then like, horrible fucking impact. So I think that
Speaker 1: when people want to write about disabilities, I'm glad you
Speaker 1: brought that up. I think people need to think about like, hey,
Speaker 1: do you are you really the person to speak about this,
Speaker 1: like is this your place? Are you really gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: not further villainize this and further isolate this from the
Speaker 1: conversation of inclusivity and allyship and like be yeah, are
Speaker 1: you just gonna bring you know, the awareness to it
Speaker 1: that needs rather than just using it as like a tool,
Speaker 1: because it's exhausting watching it as a tool. I hate
Speaker 1: being seeing people like who are like me or people
Speaker 1: who have you know, physical disabilities, and they're just being
Speaker 1: villainized for that. So yeah, I don't think we see
Speaker 1: in nearly enough of you and just intersectionality in general,
Speaker 1: Like we'll see you know, white people and a disability,
Speaker 1: We'll see you know, black people and poverty, and then
Speaker 1: we'll start to see more and more layers. But I
Speaker 1: feel like the more layered intersectional films come more with
Speaker 1: like the indie films, they get the lower budgets and
Speaker 1: like the lower marketing and distribution ceilings. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: I would be so curious to see these films, you know,
Speaker 1: as we like, you know, layer up these identities and
Speaker 1: these oppressions and privileges, but like with the bigger budgets,
Speaker 1: and I think people you know, can explore that a
Speaker 1: lot more with the bigger budgets that they get. This
Speaker 1: guy kind of had an opportunity, any uh. He caved
Speaker 1: in wish and the and the and that also will
Speaker 1: come with allowing black, indigenous people of color to make
Speaker 1: their own movies, people with disabilities to make movies about themselves,
Speaker 1: queer people to make movies about themselves. Yeah, God please.
Speaker 1: And since we're talking about horror this month, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's a genre that is so open, two different
Speaker 1: characters and and and so it's kind of I mean,
Speaker 1: it's frustrating to look back, and this is fifteen years ago,
Speaker 1: but it's frustrating to see a genre that's uniquely qualified
Speaker 1: use its power for bad basically by by demonizing people
Speaker 1: instead of you know, representing them and lifting them up.
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, you get a lot of freedom with
Speaker 1: horror movies. I mean I feel like the marketing for it.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people will make horror
Speaker 1: movies unless it's going to be like a quiet place
Speaker 1: or something like generally they're like, we know, we're gonna
Speaker 1: like stay within this pool of money and demographic and
Speaker 1: audience and YadA YadA. Yeah. I love horror movies because
Speaker 1: you get to explore these types of topics. I think,
Speaker 1: for me, Midsummer and Hereditary, which I so uh you
Speaker 1: know words. Um, I'm just like they were so disappointing
Speaker 1: at the end of the day because I'm like, you
Speaker 1: had such a fucking opportunity. You had such an opportunity
Speaker 1: and yeah blew. And people won't stop congratulating you regardless,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like, yeah, Tony Collett was fantastic, but Tony
Speaker 1: Collett is always fantastic as an angel, Like what do
Speaker 1: you expect. I don't expect anything less from her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate ari esther and I don't like his movies,
Speaker 1: and but people just can't stop requesting them for us
Speaker 1: to do. They will be fun to cover when the
Speaker 1: day comes. But like, but I'm not in a rush
Speaker 1: I do I'm maybe I'm inventing this. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: that this is something that he said where he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to direct a movie for a while.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to fund other people's projects. And it's like, yes,
Speaker 1: do that, um, and don't and you I better not
Speaker 1: see you funding the project of siss hat white guys.
Speaker 1: Oh god. Also, okay, the irony of most horror movies
Speaker 1: being made by and being about cissht white people and
Speaker 1: marginalized people being the people who actually experience most of
Speaker 1: the horrors in their lives. And and like horror movies
Speaker 1: are usually allegorical, right, the monster is never really a monster.
Speaker 1: The monsters in allegory for something. But I feel like
Speaker 1: even so, like there aren't that many allegorical films about
Speaker 1: like racism or queer phobia or classism or anything like that,
Speaker 1: at least not ones that are are in the mains
Speaker 1: like us in the whatever that what is considered to
Speaker 1: be the horrican. And because I'm sure, I mean, we
Speaker 1: know that these movies exist and that we're they're out there,
Speaker 1: it's just they're not brought to the forefront of the
Speaker 1: way that they should be. Yeah, I'm in a weekly
Speaker 1: quarantined movie club with some with a friend and then
Speaker 1: he has a bunch of other friends and so we
Speaker 1: meet every Sunday at five on zoom. We watch a
Speaker 1: movie every week, and I've really enjoyed it because it's
Speaker 1: like the first you know, Caitlin, I met you in
Speaker 1: a very white world and uh, and I felt like
Speaker 1: talking movies as much as I love those sweet Gems,
Speaker 1: it was always like I felt like I was always
Speaker 1: coming with this yeah, kind of intersectional angle that you know,
Speaker 1: if you or Catherine weren't there for the night, then
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, I'm like out here like drowning,
Speaker 1: just trying to talk about I'm just trying to talk
Speaker 1: about the movie. Right. It's like I think all women
Speaker 1: can relate to, Like people want to ask us, like,
Speaker 1: how is it being a female comic, How is it
Speaker 1: being a female writer. It's like, I just want to
Speaker 1: talk about being a writer. I just want to talk
Speaker 1: about being a filmmaker. And so I feel like when
Speaker 1: I talk about movies, there's so much more of the
Speaker 1: layer of like having to talk through like the issues
Speaker 1: of it or like the lack of intersectionality in it. Um.
Speaker 1: But in this group, we're talking about movies YadA YadA,
Speaker 1: and we I feel bad because I actually missed it
Speaker 1: so I haven't watched yet. But we watched Tales from
Speaker 1: the Hood, which I had yet to see. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: haven't seen it either. Yeah, and we're trying to watch
Speaker 1: like sometimes we dive deep into like yeah this this
Speaker 1: white head like movies whatever. But they were also trying
Speaker 1: to you know, we watch like The Watermelon Woman, which
Speaker 1: was like the first out black lesbian made film. UM.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we're like trying to explore movie more movies
Speaker 1: like that, and I, you know, it goes back to
Speaker 1: like how I see it as though, you know, like
Speaker 1: Jamie were just saying, you know, it's like, yeah, how
Speaker 1: many movies don't really get out there? And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's like anyone who's marginalized, Like we might not get
Speaker 1: the meeting, but if we get the meeting, how much
Speaker 1: do we get to pitch in the meeting once we're
Speaker 1: in the room, once we like get the movie greenlit,
Speaker 1: Like how soon do we get to do the movie
Speaker 1: once we get the movie? Like, you know, we're kicking
Speaker 1: into production. Is it going to happen on our timeline?
Speaker 1: Are we going to get the budget we want? Are
Speaker 1: we going to get to hire the people we wanted,
Speaker 1: how much to produce? YadA, YadA, YadA. The ceiling is
Speaker 1: always there, and I think that, you know, a quiet place.
Speaker 1: My biggest issue with it is like, why why this movie? Now?
Speaker 1: I love John Krasinski, fine, Emily Blunt, whatever, but like
Speaker 1: why did we need this movie? And I think get
Speaker 1: Out to me at that get Out in to us,
Speaker 1: We're going to be these like perfect like gateway to
Speaker 1: like black films. And then I've heard from friends who
Speaker 1: you know, are like pitching movies out there, like, oh,
Speaker 1: we already have get Out, you know. They're like they're
Speaker 1: like when we already have like the Black Horrors. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you serious? Like what are all of
Speaker 1: the movies that we call classics, Godfather's, Goodfellas, Casino, Like,
Speaker 1: it's all the same ship over and over. We're still
Speaker 1: letting Scorsese, you know. So I'm like, why why do
Speaker 1: we get the ceiling? Why do black filmmakers get the ceiling?
Speaker 1: You know, I could go deep, that could be a
Speaker 1: whole other episode one, but I think that that is
Speaker 1: something we said, we think that there's not as many
Speaker 1: out there. It's like, you know, people are like there's
Speaker 1: no female filmmakers or like excuse you, hello, No, that's
Speaker 1: why that's like the most frustrating fucking thing in the
Speaker 1: world to hear that. Just it's like, unfortunately, so unsurprising
Speaker 1: of how it's just assumed that people want to see
Speaker 1: the same his head, male white stories told over and
Speaker 1: over and over, and that's why they're made over and
Speaker 1: over and over and why the bar is so low.
Speaker 1: This is um, I was Caitlin, I feel like maybe
Speaker 1: I was talking about this with you not too long ago.
Speaker 1: But there is a moment that Emily Yoshida, friend of
Speaker 1: the cast, pulled out of other friend of the cast,
Speaker 1: Karina longworths, we have so many friends have I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: our our show has been on for five years, um,
Speaker 1: but it's true for for as long as the cave
Speaker 1: people have been developing their wall climbing abilities. In any case,
Speaker 1: um Emily pointed out this part of Karina's most recent
Speaker 1: podcast season and you must remember this where she mentions
Speaker 1: that Wes Anderson, when he was developing Bottle Rocket his
Speaker 1: first movie, the way he got that movie produced was
Speaker 1: that he wrote a nonsensical sixty page treatment treatment, didn't
Speaker 1: even format it like a script, didn't know how to
Speaker 1: format it like it's a script. And then instead of
Speaker 1: someone saying, uh, this is not a script, go learn
Speaker 1: how to do this, they said, we love it. You
Speaker 1: seem to have a lot of potential. We're gonna buy it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna teach you how to write a script. And
Speaker 1: then they like taught him on the ground, because that
Speaker 1: is I mean privilege firing on so many levels of
Speaker 1: like yeah, I don't know, and and just how you're
Speaker 1: eating That example is and to so many filmmakers that
Speaker 1: have no I mean truly no choice but to come
Speaker 1: knowing their ship and are still turned away when Wes
Speaker 1: Anderson is like what is what is the script? How
Speaker 1: do I do that? And they're like you're hired? Like
Speaker 1: it's just such I mean going back to kind of
Speaker 1: the horror conversation, like so many horror movies are about
Speaker 1: like zombies and vampires and werewolves and any number of
Speaker 1: other creatures that are not real because like the cistert
Speaker 1: white men who are making these movies have to invent
Speaker 1: things to scare them, whereas again, marginalized people live every
Speaker 1: day in fear because they're so often the victims of
Speaker 1: discrimination and oppression and violence or worse, they're they're taking marginalized,
Speaker 1: oppressed people and turning them into into the villains. So like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: does anyone have any other thoughts about The Descent specifically
Speaker 1: or yeah, um, I think it needed some more black people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and by some more yeah, I think they could use
Speaker 1: some more black people. That's my real of my final
Speaker 1: thought hard degree the Descent because because you know, there
Speaker 1: are some great there are some great black actors, you know,
Speaker 1: one or two out there that you know might have
Speaker 1: been around, they didn't come around still twenty Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that was like something that was sitting with me.
Speaker 1: But also, honestly, I'm fucking used to it. I'm so
Speaker 1: used to like some of some of my favorite movies
Speaker 1: are not black lead and created films. But then also
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, the ways in which I allow
Speaker 1: that to just be okay, And I've tried to boycott,
Speaker 1: like watching white movies. It's fucking hard, dude. It's like
Speaker 1: it's super hard because our ceiling is just so so
Speaker 1: low and even if there was a black actor on that.
Speaker 1: They probably would be coming out with a story now
Speaker 1: about how you know, other they felt, and there was
Speaker 1: it was an entire white male cast, you know, on
Speaker 1: this and that, which I'm really carrious how many women
Speaker 1: were involved, and that we're not in the hair, makeup
Speaker 1: or producing department, because that's typically where we are on
Speaker 1: set or often where we're hired the most and people
Speaker 1: want us. You're organized, so you're so together, like let
Speaker 1: me be dirty and be a grip, come on now,
Speaker 1: you know, but I want to be the best boy. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't see any I didn't see any women in
Speaker 1: at least high up behind the scenes roles in the Yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely want to watch it with the commentary because
Speaker 1: when I was reading all the trivia was like five
Speaker 1: minutes into the trip or commentary and then they would
Speaker 1: say certain things. So I'm really curious about I want
Speaker 1: to hear their tone because I feel like you can
Speaker 1: always like I can start to you know, sherylack Holmes
Speaker 1: my way through tones and commentary or like wow, they
Speaker 1: really hated the process, Like Naomi Watts talking about um
Speaker 1: maholland dry and her audition is just so sleazy and disgusting.
Speaker 1: Like David Lynch like told her she came in and
Speaker 1: then she had no makeup on because she wanted to
Speaker 1: seem natural. I think she was new to l a
Speaker 1: very similar to the character she hands up portray, and
Speaker 1: he said, come back with makeup, and so she's like
Speaker 1: and when she talks about it, she sounds sort of
Speaker 1: brain rush like, so, you know, I left and I
Speaker 1: put on makeup and I came back and he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is better now, you know, And I was like yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was like, man, but it's those things that
Speaker 1: we allowed to not be, you know, the canceling factor
Speaker 1: or something that we think not worthy of bringing up
Speaker 1: about someone. And so we I mean we you would
Speaker 1: all just have to unlearned the like really harmful things
Speaker 1: that we learned living in this like patriarchal structure. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm so curious if if The Descent had a bigger
Speaker 1: turnout and was more like I think it's like a like,
Speaker 1: I think it's got a good following, but I think
Speaker 1: I've had a more mainstream following that it seemed like
Speaker 1: they were kind of hoping for. I'm curious if some
Speaker 1: of those actresses would be coming out now and saying like,
Speaker 1: you know, we could have done more, we should have
Speaker 1: made it more diverse, because it's when I'm watching a
Speaker 1: lot of like high supposedly high up like white women do,
Speaker 1: They're like, I should have done more. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you should have done more. Why were you just
Speaker 1: sitting there because your privilege wasn't being tested? Where were
Speaker 1: you fifteen years ago? Exactly? So I think it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think low key this movie did speak
Speaker 1: to like the white supremacy that like definitely boils within that.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, obviously this was a good
Speaker 1: movie to take a chance with an all female cast.
Speaker 1: You had to throw a sister and there is something
Speaker 1: so absolutely I don't know, I mean. And it was
Speaker 1: a commercial success. It had like a three point five
Speaker 1: British pound budget and made yeah, I don't know, but
Speaker 1: um but and then in in US dollars it made
Speaker 1: somewhere around I think fifty five to sixty million at
Speaker 1: the box office, So it was a box office success.
Speaker 1: And honestly, this is one of our most requested horror
Speaker 1: films to cover on the podcast. We've been getting this
Speaker 1: request for long time. You're welcome, everybody, You're happy. It's
Speaker 1: a solid film man for what it was when it was.
Speaker 1: You know, I think if they made that movie now,
Speaker 1: like even the movies I see coming out now, I'm like,
Speaker 1: are you fucking serious? What year is this? Why is
Speaker 1: this movie half inning right now? But I think for
Speaker 1: two thousand five, for them to do a bunch of
Speaker 1: women diving into caves with the budget that it was, like,
Speaker 1: I think, what, like, there's not many other films like that,
Speaker 1: Like I think, you know, like Twenty Days Later, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, Nami Harris, I don't know. There's so many
Speaker 1: Naomi actresses. I get them all mixed. Um Nami Harris,
Speaker 1: like I think she to me when I saw Twenty
Speaker 1: Days Later, I was like, skirts, excuse me, this black
Speaker 1: woman with this like kind of short pixie flat ironed
Speaker 1: haircut is just like kicking ass and saving this like
Speaker 1: sad little white boy. Okay, I am here for this.
Speaker 1: But I feel like we only get those every so often,
Speaker 1: and then we got you know, not get Up. I
Speaker 1: didn't like US. I thought US was horsha, to be honest,
Speaker 1: But I love Lupita. That Lupita like blew me the
Speaker 1: funk away. So it sucks as a black mixed person.
Speaker 1: Like every so often I get someone I'm like yeah,
Speaker 1: but then most of the time you're like, no, there's
Speaker 1: not really anyone. Oh she is anxiety, I have anxiety.
Speaker 1: Well I guess there's that, you know. Yeah, yes, Um,
Speaker 1: Well does this movie pass the Bechtel tests? Oh? It
Speaker 1: sure does, almost constantly, almost exclusively. Yeah. And it's interesting
Speaker 1: because I didn't like check this to the to the hilt,
Speaker 1: let's say, But I feel like even when they are
Speaker 1: maybe the subtext is about her husband, they don't really
Speaker 1: say his name, and they don't really mention him. It's
Speaker 1: all kind of like subtext, and it's more they're talking
Speaker 1: about grief than they're talking about him, except for like
Speaker 1: that one line where I'm like, Juno, what are you
Speaker 1: doing where when she says she's not the only one
Speaker 1: who lost someone in that accident, I'm like, why are
Speaker 1: you telling him yourself like this? You're like what? Um?
Speaker 1: But outside of that, yeah, they men aren't really mentioned
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's true. Actually, And now
Speaker 1: I think about like every time a man was mentioned,
Speaker 1: You're like, oh a man, Oh I forgot about them?
Speaker 1: For a second, you know, like yeah, because Sarah asks
Speaker 1: a couple of them like, so, do you have a
Speaker 1: man back home? And then yeah, we do talk more
Speaker 1: about the grief of the husband and the daughter rather
Speaker 1: than him. That's fine by me. It was a nice
Speaker 1: little break. Yeah, there were way too many questions, like
Speaker 1: they almost like went around the circle do you have
Speaker 1: a boyfriend or husband? Yeah? That was ridiculous, which was
Speaker 1: like too much, But at least they also talked about like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like spelunking, I'm in medical school, and here are
Speaker 1: some of my interests. But it did sort of feel like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what do women talk about when they're not being killed
Speaker 1: by or and also when they are being killed by
Speaker 1: all the men and the movie are killed. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's fine. The sequel also kills a lot because there
Speaker 1: are it is a cast of men and women, and um,
Speaker 1: all the men are also killed spoiler allergy. I'm curious
Speaker 1: to see that one. Now. I got a damn it.
Speaker 1: It sounds pretty good. It's it's not well, it's it's
Speaker 1: the first one is a better crafted and like better
Speaker 1: structured movie, and I think a more effective horror movie.
Speaker 1: H The second one, I think course correct some of
Speaker 1: the issues and has another woman of color as one
Speaker 1: of the lead characters, who, Um, and I won't spoil this,
Speaker 1: but you know you're not unhappy about what happens really
Speaker 1: with her. So it's a little better is her storyline,
Speaker 1: Like she walks up to the cave and it's like, oh, hell,
Speaker 1: I'm not going in there. I'm out. I wish but
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm going to break the stereotype. No black
Speaker 1: person is saying this. She black kind of latin X. Okay, okay, great,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch it. Yeah, but really looks like horseship,
Speaker 1: but I guess I'll watch it. So as far as
Speaker 1: our nipple scale, UM, examining the movie from an intersectional
Speaker 1: feminist lens zero to five nipples. Um, Again, there's a
Speaker 1: lot to appreciate about this movie, and there's there's there's
Speaker 1: a lot to be upset by about this movie. Um.
Speaker 1: It almost feels very equal. I'm almost inclined to give
Speaker 1: it like a two point five, like a split down
Speaker 1: the middle because you see very capable, physically strong, outdoorsy
Speaker 1: athletic women who you almost never see. Um, they aren't sexualized.
Speaker 1: It's just a group of friends doing extreme sports until
Speaker 1: the cannibals, until the cave dollars come, and then you have,
Speaker 1: I mean, the only woman of color gets vilified, the pettiness,
Speaker 1: the petty behavior of some of the women. At the end,
Speaker 1: it all sort of cancels out. So yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: I would give it like a two point five. It
Speaker 1: is very much a movie of its time. And this
Speaker 1: is a rating of of the film through an intersectional lens,
Speaker 1: not as a film as a well, I want to
Speaker 1: say is a cinematic piece, but I think we should
Speaker 1: start evaluating films through an intersection. So our our yeah,
Speaker 1: our rating is based on like the lens. The only
Speaker 1: reason I'm I'm torn in this is because I feel
Speaker 1: like I typically rate films through this lens, but now
Speaker 1: there's other people doing it, and I'm like, am I
Speaker 1: in the real world right now? You guys do this too,
Speaker 1: and this is way better? Okay, Because people will be like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I just thought it was a good movie. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: were you not uncomfortable by it? Like I was, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's so nice for you, and you're cute little privilege
Speaker 1: go over there. Yeah, I think I would give it.
Speaker 1: I think I would give it three nipples out of five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll split the deaf. I'll do two point seven. Very
Speaker 1: I love to get the decimal zone here. Um No, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that, like, given the fact that it was
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago and it is there is a lot
Speaker 1: that this movie is doing in this genre that no
Speaker 1: one was doing in this genre unfortunate. As as infuriating
Speaker 1: as I find it, I do feel like there is
Speaker 1: I don't know how to properly phrase this, but like
Speaker 1: there is kind of a like a tendency maybe in
Speaker 1: movies of like once a male director proves, oh there
Speaker 1: can be a you know, a horror movie starring all women,
Speaker 1: then it unfortunately kind of does get the ball rolling
Speaker 1: to maybe let a woman direct a horror movie about women.
Speaker 1: But cause I feel like there's a lot of moving
Speaker 1: in the right direction in some ways and then in
Speaker 1: other ways than complete like stagnation. But there is a
Speaker 1: lot happening here that isn't happening really anywhere else in
Speaker 1: this space at that time. So I'll give it a
Speaker 1: stew there. And it's really cool to see Sarah come
Speaker 1: out of the the period pond and get all stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't care what anyone says, it is it is
Speaker 1: a men being afraid of Vagina's thing again just also
Speaker 1: very says normative get a life like anyways? Um yeah,
Speaker 1: two point two point seven five. I'll give one to Sarah.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give one to I give I'll give one
Speaker 1: to Juno because I said, I don't know why. I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, Juno made mistakes, But who among
Speaker 1: us hasn't Who hasn't who among us their friends to
Speaker 1: certain death on purpose? And I'll give the last three
Speaker 1: quarters to Beth because I did think if it was
Speaker 1: funny that she was gossiping when she's dying. You know.
Speaker 1: Oh well, Darby, thank you so much for being here,
Speaker 1: remember having me. What a treat that we are, just
Speaker 1: the fact that we all descended into this conversation together
Speaker 1: and now we're crawling our crawling over the bones of
Speaker 1: people to get out. Yes, um, where can people check
Speaker 1: out your stuff? Following nine, et cetera. Yeah, so um.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty active on Instagram at Darblazy, des and Delta
Speaker 1: asan alpha RBS and boy l easy y Um. I've
Speaker 1: been doing a lot of customer service calls lately. Have
Speaker 1: to spell my name out in letters like that? Um,
Speaker 1: what else? Do you do in quarantine but fixed problems
Speaker 1: you don't really have? UM, And yeah, I'm a filmmaker,
Speaker 1: artist consultant. I consult folks and film. I used to
Speaker 1: run a collective cult Color Film, where we provided resources
Speaker 1: and tools and education for the community of marginalized filmmakers.
Speaker 1: And now I'm doing it on my own. So if
Speaker 1: you need a consultation to get through a work situation. UM,
Speaker 1: I do monthly live streams. And I have a patriot
Speaker 1: on patreon dot com slash Derby rose d a r
Speaker 1: b asy rose Um. And yeah, I do monthly live streams.
Speaker 1: I talk about intersectionality at work, how to be productive
Speaker 1: during this time that we're in, and um, all the
Speaker 1: other things. And I do want to recommend a couple
Speaker 1: of movies anything by Karen Kassama, Jennifer's Body, The Invitation,
Speaker 1: other horror thriller films, Ginger Snaps, Um although co written
Speaker 1: by a woman, fully directed by a man, fantastic More
Speaker 1: Lady Bits and uh comparisons all that in horror. Our
Speaker 1: friend Alex recommends that we covered that movie on this
Speaker 1: podcast almost on a daily Baby. It's a fantastic film,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm forgetting others. But there's a
Speaker 1: lot of incredible films out there by marginalized filmmakers. So
Speaker 1: support the horror, support anything that we and they need,
Speaker 1: because why America don't care? So yes, and and uh,
Speaker 1: listeners hired Derby for her consultation work, and subscribe to
Speaker 1: her Patreon and give me money. We had a capitalist
Speaker 1: society still and and covid took my work away. Yes,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. This was really fun. I feel
Speaker 1: like I've been waiting to have this conversation. And I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan of what you guys have been doing
Speaker 1: with Bechdel Castle. I'm so happy to see it, like
Speaker 1: still where it is and where it's going. It's so cool.
Speaker 1: Onward and upward baby, Yes, I love it. Yea, thank
Speaker 1: you for being here here everyone, it's a future Damian future.
Speaker 1: It is us. We wanted to address something that we
Speaker 1: talked about during the episode and that we got feedback
Speaker 1: on from a few different listeners regarding our discussion that
Speaker 1: we had about the representation of disability in horror movies.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we we basically at the feedback that while
Speaker 1: that's an important discussion to have, this was not the
Speaker 1: appropriate movie to do it for, and so we just
Speaker 1: wanted to acknowledge that we have spoken with listeners and
Speaker 1: we just we want to continue having this discussion, but
Speaker 1: this wasn't the movie to do it for. And um,
Speaker 1: so we apologize, and you know, as always, our lines
Speaker 1: of communication are open to you, and um, yeah, we
Speaker 1: will continue to have this discussion in movies that makes
Speaker 1: more sense for us. So our apologies for um, misfiring
Speaker 1: on when to have that discussion. Yeah, it was pointed
Speaker 1: out that because many like species of animals who dwell
Speaker 1: in caves are blind, it wasn't as though this movie
Speaker 1: was necessarily demonizing blindness. For me, I was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: this would be maybe a good opportunity to kick start
Speaker 1: that conversation. But as people pointed out, this wasn't the
Speaker 1: right movie for it. It just wasn't the right match right.
Speaker 1: But it's still a very important discussion for sure. So yes,
Speaker 1: thanks for those of you who gave feedback. Like Jamie said,
Speaker 1: we encourage that. You know, sometimes we're you know, we're
Speaker 1: not always going to get things exactly right every time,
Speaker 1: so it's it's helpful to receive feedback from people. And
Speaker 1: we're always wanting to learn and grow, so thank you
Speaker 1: for that. We love you, Love you, Future Jamie and
Speaker 1: future Caitlin signing off, And you can check us out
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe
Speaker 1: to our Patreon aka Matreon at patreon dot com, slash
Speaker 1: pecktel Cast. You get to bonus episodes every month, it's
Speaker 1: only five dollars, and you get access to the entire
Speaker 1: back catalog. And if you're a horror fan, we've covered
Speaker 1: a number of horror movies on that, including including Jennifer's
Speaker 1: including Jennifer's Body and Teeth and Get Out and The
Speaker 1: Babba Duck Who Can't Forget The Babba Duck Who Could Forget? Yeah,
Speaker 1: among many many others. And you can get our merch
Speaker 1: t public dot com slash v back til Cast we
Speaker 1: have we have recently got masks to the store with
Speaker 1: all of our classic Birch stuff, so you can get
Speaker 1: those if you so choose. And yes, stay safe, help people,
Speaker 1: and we love you. And now we have an US
Speaker 1: sent out of the Cave Rave. Bye bye