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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey, hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: do you want to accompany me in this cave and

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Speaker 1: explore it together? Wait? Wait, wait, I just need a

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Speaker 1: triple check something. Okay, has anyone ever been in this cave? Um?

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Speaker 1: Probably not? But who could say? Okay? That's fine. I

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Speaker 1: have a question. I have a second question. Follow up? Okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: is this cave just like some really long vagina metaphor?

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Speaker 1: If so, I didn't? Yes, yeah, I mean aren't all

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Speaker 1: caves do it? All? Right? Here we go. We are

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Speaker 1: now descending into the cave effortless beautiful. Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: extel Cast. Uh. My name is Caitlin Darante. My name

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Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus, and we're just gonna We're just gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, rope on down. I'm like, I'm gonna make

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Speaker 1: it very immediately clear that I've never been spelan king. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Let's rope on down into the vagina metaphor. That is

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Speaker 1: one of the scariest movies that I've ever seen. I think, yes,

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Speaker 1: this and this is our show, The Bechtel Cast, where

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Speaker 1: we examine film through an intersectional feminist lens. We use

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion,

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Speaker 1: that being a media metric invented by queer cartoonist Alice

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Speaker 1: and Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Wallace. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: uh Wallace test, And I really just my mouth just

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Speaker 1: went another place, the Becktel Wallace test. Yes, and that

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Speaker 1: requires our rendition of the test that two people of

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Speaker 1: a marginalized gender speak to each other about something other

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Speaker 1: than a man for at least two line of dialogue.

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Speaker 1: Shouldn't be that hard. It really shouldn't be that hard.

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Speaker 1: But but some people really, I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if we if Christopher Nolan has really gotten there yet.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's like we're always pushing for growth.

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Speaker 1: He simply has never seen two women talk to each other.

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Speaker 1: Our thoughts are always with Christopher Nolan and his quest

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Speaker 1: to get two female characters to speak to each other about.

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Speaker 1: Not Leonardo DiCaprio. But you know, someday, well, today's movie

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Speaker 1: should fare a little bit better, but not to spoil

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Speaker 1: anything spoil away, because today we were talking about The

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Speaker 1: Descent and we have a guest with us who we

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Speaker 1: are very excited about. She is a filmmaker, an artist,

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Speaker 1: and a consultant. It's Darby Rose with you. Yes, please descend.

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Speaker 1: Let's with us into the vagina metaphor? Which character is

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Speaker 1: it that descends really quickly? And you're like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: but then she's like, I descend all the time. That

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Speaker 1: would be Holly, Holly, yes, And then I mean Holly,

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Speaker 1: she should maybe descend a little slower as we learn. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: this movie is so scary. Thank you for coming. I'm

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Speaker 1: so stoked, and thank you for bringing us this movie.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love this movie. I saw it years

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Speaker 1: ago on the interwebs and then again at sin a

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Speaker 1: family and the director actually came and did like a

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Speaker 1: Q and a yeah. It was really rad um and

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Speaker 1: you know, he said a lot of the stuff that

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Speaker 1: you can read on IMDb trivia, which is fairly fascinating.

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Speaker 1: But I loved it and watching it again it was

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Speaker 1: like this moothe is still badass and scared the ship

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Speaker 1: out of me. Yeah, it's like I'm still scared. It's

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Speaker 1: like broad Daylight. I just got so scared by their

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Speaker 1: own terrors in their own lives and then the terrors

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Speaker 1: below ground that they embark with right that they descend

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Speaker 1: upon on. Yeah, Jamie, what's your history with the movie.

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Speaker 1: I had really no history with this movie at all.

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Speaker 1: I knew that it was a horror movie with an

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Speaker 1: all female cast, and that is all I knew. And

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Speaker 1: I'm really glad I went into it knowing essentially nothing,

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Speaker 1: because every I feel like I got the two thousand

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Speaker 1: five theatrical experience that I was that I would have

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Speaker 1: because it's so I mean, like our discussion aside like it.

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Speaker 1: It's so scary, it is so well paced, Like there

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Speaker 1: were so many times that I was surprised, and then

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Speaker 1: I had to go seek out the UK ending. I

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Speaker 1: watched a cut of it that had the US ending,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I I still don't know what ending

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Speaker 1: I prefer. I think I know what ending I prefer,

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Speaker 1: but I don't. But I'm but I don't know. There

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Speaker 1: it was really good. It was really good and really scary,

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Speaker 1: and I was I don't know, Yeah, I was very happy.

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Speaker 1: I went in kind of not knowing anything about it.

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Speaker 1: What about you Caitlin. I saw this movie in theaters

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Speaker 1: in two thousand five, depending on what month that came out.

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Speaker 1: I was either a freshman or sophomore in college, and

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Speaker 1: I went with my best friend j T, friend of

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Speaker 1: the show Twilight, UM, and we saw it together because

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Speaker 1: we had a habit of seeing horror movies, especially together

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Speaker 1: in theaters, and then both being so scared about whatever

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Speaker 1: we watched. We would then have to like just stayed

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Speaker 1: over at each other's apartments for like a week afterward,

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Speaker 1: just to take comfort in knowing that someone else was

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Speaker 1: there to protect us. UM. So that was very much

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Speaker 1: the case for The Descent. I thought it was one

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Speaker 1: of the most effective horror movies I had ever seen, UM,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of horror movies it's like they're in

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Speaker 1: a haunted house and it's like, Okay, then leave the

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Speaker 1: haunted house, or like the reason that they can't leave

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Speaker 1: will be so like plot device e or ridiculou list.

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Speaker 1: But this one, it's like they had to keep going forward, yeah, trapped,

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Speaker 1: like there are no I mean, well, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say there are no story logic issues, because like

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Speaker 1: what about the cave dwellers, but I mean, for what

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Speaker 1: it is like the world building that it accomplishes, You're

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Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, like, oh, it's just so scary.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it. It does enough kind of early

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Speaker 1: on too that I truly wasn't like, I don't like,

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Speaker 1: there were different moments where I'm like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if this is going to be a last girl situation,

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Speaker 1: like maybe more maybe no one will get out, maybe

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Speaker 1: multiple people will get out, Like I just have no

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Speaker 1: And I certainly I was watching this movie by myself,

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Speaker 1: and I was just sort of like giving my boyfriend

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Speaker 1: brief summaries every few minutes of what was happening. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I certainly didn't see a truck full of spears

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Speaker 1: crashing into them at the beginning. That was it was like,

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Speaker 1: just what kind of truck was that? It was a

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Speaker 1: truck full of spears and the spears were on top

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Speaker 1: of the truck and that so it's like borried, but

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Speaker 1: not for long stretches. And then you don't like, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't sure. I knew so little about it that I

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Speaker 1: wasn't sure if there were going to be quote unquote

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Speaker 1: monsters at any point. And you get like pretty far

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Speaker 1: into the movie without that happening, and so it was

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Speaker 1: like a cool surprise when you're like, oh, there are

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Speaker 1: little little vagina monsters inside the vagina uh and not

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Speaker 1: in this movie to be called the m STDs. They

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Speaker 1: are cave dwellers. But now maybe I will refer to

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Speaker 1: any lady problems as I've got a cave dwelling of

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Speaker 1: the Sunday. I love I love that the movie does

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Speaker 1: have like it's kind of like two movies in one,

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Speaker 1: because it's not until according to IMDb trivia, fifty one

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Speaker 1: minutes into the film does the cave dwellers do they

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Speaker 1: come out? Like the killing doesn't start happening until then,

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Speaker 1: And I feel like, up until then, it's already like

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Speaker 1: so scary, but it's not. It's just good. It's just

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Speaker 1: a good time. Every moment that you get scared or jump,

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Speaker 1: it feels so like, yeah, they deserve to do that

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Speaker 1: to me, I deserve that, And it's and it's also like, yeah, sad,

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Speaker 1: and you're getting to know these characters, and I think actually,

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Speaker 1: by the time they start dying, I was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: that's okay, I'm okay, I'm okay with this. Even though

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Speaker 1: I've gotten attached to some of them except for a

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Speaker 1: bitch as do you know I'm okay with this. I

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Speaker 1: have no sympathy for that home record. Oh well, I oh,

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Speaker 1: I have a whole thing about her. We'll get to it. Man.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm weirdly empathetic. I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: some things where you're like Juno, like what, but the

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Speaker 1: dude has a loaded character. There's so much going on there,

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Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, yeah, for sure. My only issue too,

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Speaker 1: though with them doing that to Juno was she was

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Speaker 1: like the only woman of color, and was like, yes,

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Speaker 1: why do you gotta do that to her? Well to

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Speaker 1: me and we'll talk about this. But just to give

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Speaker 1: you a little niak peek, the movie suggests that women

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Speaker 1: are so petty that they will just kill each other because, like,

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Speaker 1: I understand the anger of learning that your best one

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Speaker 1: of your best friends like was having an affair with

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Speaker 1: your husband, But are you going to be so angry

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Speaker 1: that you kill her or leave her to die? That

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Speaker 1: was that was definitely like her change and you know

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Speaker 1: when she becomes like a little cave dweller herself, like

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Speaker 1: after death dies. You know, I was like trying to

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Speaker 1: believe this change, but I was like, but you just

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Speaker 1: didn't give me that like anger building up. You gave

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Speaker 1: me a lot of anxiety and hallucinations, but you didn't

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Speaker 1: give me this like anger that burst or she just

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Speaker 1: like snapped, you know, or maybe they did, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't believe it. I kind of was. I I don't

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Speaker 1: know why. Like one of the things I was sure

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Speaker 1: of was that I felt so sure. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I just was like, well, I don't think that Sarah

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Speaker 1: is going to kill I just didn't think Sarah was

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Speaker 1: going to kill Juno. I thought they were going to

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Speaker 1: both escape and then have like the most terrifying discussion

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Speaker 1: of Juno's entire life. Like that was kind of what

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Speaker 1: I was hoping for, is that they would both live

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Speaker 1: and then they would just have to coexist with every

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Speaker 1: bit of trauma in relation. Yeah. Yeah, like it's just

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Speaker 1: every single conceivable imaginable trauma. I was kind of Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean honestly in a in a movie that like

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Speaker 1: I really really really enjoyed that. That was like one

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Speaker 1: of the choices where I feel like maybe if I

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Speaker 1: saw in theaters, I would have been like fuck, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, like that's so cathartic, But like, yeah, being

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Speaker 1: that she is the only woman of color, and it

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Speaker 1: kind of like makes Sarah. I don't know. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like Sarah is gonna Also just logistically, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: Juno is the only person that has, you know, been spelunking,

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Speaker 1: Like obviously she fucked this day up, but she she

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Speaker 1: has the skills to get us up in any case. Well,

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Speaker 1: I watched the sequel to Okay. I wanted to because

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Speaker 1: I read a about it and I'm so curious why

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Speaker 1: they took that route. Yeah, what is so? Spoiler alert

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Speaker 1: everyone for The Descent Part two. Um, it's the same

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Speaker 1: cast sort of where basically it picks up right where

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Speaker 1: the first movie leaves off, where like the authorities find

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Speaker 1: Sarah having just escaped from the cave, but she doesn't

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Speaker 1: remember anything. I guess the trauma has made her unable

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Speaker 1: to remember what just happened. So they're like, well, all

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Speaker 1: of your friends are missing. We have to go back

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Speaker 1: down into the cave to find them. And she's like,

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't know what happened down there. So

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Speaker 1: she and like some I don't know if they're park rangers.

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Speaker 1: I think there's like a cough, few cops, but they

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Speaker 1: all go into the cave because they don't believe the woman.

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Speaker 1: Well that and she doesn't remember, which I think we

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Speaker 1: we've talked about how like women having amnesia is like

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Speaker 1: often a plot device in movies, and women be having amnesia, Well,

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Speaker 1: women's brains are so unreliable. Um, So they go back

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Speaker 1: down into the cave and they basically find all of

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Speaker 1: the dead bodies of her friends. They find the cave

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Speaker 1: dwellers again. But guess what, Juno has survived and she wait,

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Speaker 1: she like fought everyone off with her broken leg, with

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Speaker 1: her broken right, with her stabbed leg, and yeah, so

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Speaker 1: she she's survived. And basically the rest of the cast

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Speaker 1: dies except for Sarah and Juno. They are like kind

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Speaker 1: of the two final girls at the end and they

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Speaker 1: sort of reconcile where they're like, we have to protect

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Speaker 1: each other, and they both they kind of both like

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Speaker 1: martyr themselves for each other. So the second movie kind

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Speaker 1: of it ends. It ends in a way that I

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Speaker 1: like better than how this first movie sounds like how

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Speaker 1: I wanted the first This movie the end was like

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Speaker 1: that they would somehow be what I was hoping. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like, maybe this is shooting too high

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Speaker 1: for a movie, a man wrote in two thousand five.

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Speaker 1: But I was hoping that they would have some sort

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Speaker 1: of like intense cave discussion there in the Vagina, and

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Speaker 1: they're just like, wait a second, Like, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: very I feel like sometimes in these situations it's like

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Speaker 1: maybe her husband was like an total asshole who like

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Speaker 1: misled both of them and all this stuff, and they're like, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: good thing, you got stabbed. Let's get out of here,

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Speaker 1: or you know whatever whatever that they have some some

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Speaker 1: sort of like they don't have to like each other,

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Speaker 1: but some some kind of thing that doesn't involve just

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Speaker 1: murdering each other. But I'm glad that that man that's

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Speaker 1: so is horror sequels never correct things. That's great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: did you guys read the IMDb trivia because you keep

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Speaker 1: calling it the Vagina And one of the trivia pieces

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Speaker 1: was that so all the caves were obviously not real,

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Speaker 1: they built like twenty one different caves, and that they

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Speaker 1: called that tight narrow one of vagina they would always

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Speaker 1: be like all were going in. Yeah, so I thought

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Speaker 1: that's like you guys were referring to. I thought everyone

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Speaker 1: read the trivia like me, Wait, that's so fun yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anytime you drop a female cast into a large kavernart

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Speaker 1: space and the movies written by a man, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: we know what this is about. Like, yeah, I guess.

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Speaker 1: He So he did Dog Soldiers, which I still haven't seen,

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Speaker 1: and then they asked him to do this and he

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Speaker 1: was like, I don't really want to get like known

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Speaker 1: as a like horror director. And then something changed and

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Speaker 1: he was like, all right, screwt, let's do it. But

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Speaker 1: you know I want to do with an all female

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Speaker 1: cast and a sin a family. He put it better

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Speaker 1: than and how it's put on IMDb. He was just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, with women, they are more likely to talk

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Speaker 1: about their feelings about why they're in the situation, versus

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Speaker 1: like the men I write don't talk about feelings. I

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, thank thank you, but it's in a family.

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Speaker 1: He was like, he's like, well, women have more dynamic

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Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, okay, I like that. He's like,

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Speaker 1: I think we need to see more movies with like

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Speaker 1: all cast of woman and he's like, so I asked

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Speaker 1: all my female friends. I'm like, you know, it's so funny.

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Speaker 1: Is what you should have done? You should have given

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Speaker 1: the movie to a woman to direct and write. It's

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Speaker 1: cute that you wanted to learn to be a woman,

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Speaker 1: John Sweden, But you could just give the project to

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Speaker 1: a woman and then yeah, and then he did it

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Speaker 1: and and then I guess they made them all like

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Speaker 1: have different accents because he had like a primarily UK film.

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Speaker 1: Actually I get the ending of this movie often confused

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Speaker 1: with the Ruins the genem alone. Basically I don't even remember.

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Speaker 1: She gets stuck in a pyramid or something. It's like

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Speaker 1: a bunch of white people go to like a brown

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Speaker 1: country and they get stuck in a pyramid. But then

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Speaker 1: the pyramid like create some virus or disease and if

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Speaker 1: you leave, and then like the natives they think are like,

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Speaker 1: don't leave your curt But then eventually she gets away

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Speaker 1: and the ending but is infected. So I always get

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Speaker 1: the ending of the Descent in this mixture. Two entirely

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Speaker 1: different movies, extremely different. But I think the early two

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Speaker 1: thousand's horror films where it gave you that hopeless ending

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Speaker 1: was like kind of a thing. Yeah, for sure, except

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Speaker 1: for the American ending. I like, I like a hopeless ending.

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Speaker 1: I do too, I love a hopeless ending. I don't

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Speaker 1: care about life. Let's do it. I'm like, you know, like, realistically,

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Speaker 1: there's rarely a last girl in life, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I kind of when I went back and watched the

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Speaker 1: UK ending to this, I mean, we'll talk about but like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it's more bleak, but I'm like, this

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Speaker 1: makes more sense. This makes more sense. Yeah, and more

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Speaker 1: likely that that would have would have happened that way. Probably, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were all fucked. Ye. Well should I recap the

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Speaker 1: movie and then we can really dive in, we can

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Speaker 1: really descend into the discussion. Let's do it. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: we open on a group of three kind of like

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Speaker 1: adrenaline junkie women. They are Sarah, Beth, and Juno, who

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Speaker 1: we see like whitewater rafting. Sarah has a husband and

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Speaker 1: her young daughter and they are brutally killed in a

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Speaker 1: car accident on the drive home. But I can't emphasize

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Speaker 1: it enough. A truck with spears on top of it,

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Speaker 1: and the spears are loose. They were like, I think

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Speaker 1: they're just like narrow pipes, which might be foreshadowing the

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Speaker 1: narrow pipiness of it all. I really did appreciate. I

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Speaker 1: kind of like when like a horror movie cuts to

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Speaker 1: the chase of like, no, this is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: gory one because the second you see that whatever it

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Speaker 1: is go through her husband's head right after she's like, babe,

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Speaker 1: you're distant because he's cheating on her, and then he's

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Speaker 1: like um, and then it's just instant karma piped through

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Speaker 1: the head. Yes. Um. So Sarah is obviously devastated, and

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Speaker 1: then we cut to one year later. She's still dealing

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Speaker 1: with the grief, but she decides to go cave diving

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Speaker 1: in Appalachia with her friends Beth and Juno, as well

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Speaker 1: as some other friends, Becca, Becca's sister Sam who is

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Speaker 1: a med school student, and Holly, who is the one

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Speaker 1: who's like kind of the most reckless and thrilled speaking

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Speaker 1: of the group. One of the group, right. She descends

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Speaker 1: quickly and then they head for bore Um Cave, or

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Speaker 1: what they think is bore Um Cave. They arrive at

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Speaker 1: the mouth of a cave and begin there descents right away.

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Speaker 1: When they're inside, some something's happened. There's like a bloody handprint,

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Speaker 1: A bunch of bats fly around and startle them. There

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Speaker 1: was a dead deer right near the mouth of the cave,

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Speaker 1: and We're like, hmm, I wonder if anything bad is

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Speaker 1: going to happen. They start poking at it like a

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Speaker 1: dead body, like and stand by me or something. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you guys want to see a dead body and we

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Speaker 1: start poking. They're like, come on, we gotta go. We

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Speaker 1: have to have a descent, Okay, So they go further

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Speaker 1: into the cave. They go down this narrow tunnel, which

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Speaker 1: I guess was the vagina is what they called it

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Speaker 1: on set. I mean, yeah, I mean there's a pool

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Speaker 1: full of blood at the center of it. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's very it's a very siss normative situation they're descending into.

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Speaker 1: Uh so they don't know where they're going. It's very

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Speaker 1: dark and scary. And then Sarah gets stuck in one

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Speaker 1: of these very narrow tunnels. She starts panicking. The tunnel

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Speaker 1: starts to collapse. So I actually had to walk out

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Speaker 1: of the room at one point. I was like, I

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Speaker 1: can't even watch this. That was the scariest part for me.

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Speaker 1: The claustrophobia. Yeah, I definitely have claustrophobia, and that was

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Speaker 1: my worst nightmare. Like I'd rather deal with the cave

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Speaker 1: dwellers and yeah, yeah, like once you get to the

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Speaker 1: cave dwellers, we're like, okay, this is like this is imagination,

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Speaker 1: but that like moment of horror at the beginning, because

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of this movie, I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I've kind of always wanted to do that, and then

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Speaker 1: immediately you're like, I've had a change of heart. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So Beth helps her get out, but one of the

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Speaker 1: bags of ropes gets lost in the rubble, and then

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Speaker 1: that way out is now blocked. So did they send

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Speaker 1: it with the last person? Though? Right? Questions? Why? Yeah,

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00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 1: that is a good question. Why do we ever find out?

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Speaker 1: This is maybe a plot hole bit? But why doesn't

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Speaker 1: Juno take the book? Like? Is it just because she's like,

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Speaker 1: we're so bad? But it's like if she knew the

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00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,719
Speaker 1: book that she has is for Borom Cave, but they

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Speaker 1: don't go into Borom caves, so that's why she doesn't

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Speaker 1: bring it. She's like, why bother that makes more sense,

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Speaker 1: that's right. She is like, we don't need this ship

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Speaker 1: because we didn't even go not even but I'm gonna

364
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Speaker 1: rush everyone because we've got to get to the vagina.

365
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 1: Now there's there's also a there's a female orgasm joke

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00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: in there, it's how how do you give a lemon

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Speaker 1: an orgasm? You touch it's? You touch it citrus, which

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00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: is supposed to sound like clitter as it's not a

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Speaker 1: it's not a good punchline. I'm like, maybe that works

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Speaker 1: better with a Scottish accent. I'm not sure. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: that one way out is blocked and they're like, no

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Speaker 1: big deal, there are two other ways out of Borom Cave, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's when we learn Juno didn't bring them to

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Speaker 1: Borom Cave. She brought them to a different, uncharted cave

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Speaker 1: that no one has ever been inside of before, or

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Speaker 1: so they think shady, but this means that they have

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Speaker 1: no idea how to navigate it, and no one knows

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Speaker 1: they're down there, so if they do turn up missing,

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00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: like the rescue team will search the wrong place. Um So,

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00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: then Sarah thinks she sees something or someone lurking in

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Speaker 1: the distance. Maybe it's a yeast infection that's affecting this.

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Speaker 1: I was I was just like the U T I

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Speaker 1: lurking in Yeah as U T I. Do they make

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00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:32,360
Speaker 1: that sound too? Yeah? You don't very echo yeah. Um

385
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Speaker 1: So they move onward to find a path out of

386
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: the cave and they come upon this deep ravine that

387
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: they have to get across, and as they're doing that,

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00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: they notice a hook that's already embedded in the roof

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00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 1: of the cave and they realize someone's been downe there before,

390
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,239
Speaker 1: but it's equipment that's like several decades old. So they're like, well,

391
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Speaker 1: if people have been down here before, why is this

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Speaker 1: cave still uncharted? And they're like, they haven't touched this

393
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: equipment in a Hunters that's my also horrible accent, but

394
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 1: bear with it. But then they come upon some cave

395
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 1: paintings that show that there's another entrance to the cave.

396
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: But then Holly, who loves scrambling ahead of everyone, falls

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Speaker 1: into a hole and breaks her leg, and while the

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00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: rest of the group is dealing with her injury, Sarah

399
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: hears something. She breaks away from the group and sees

400
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: what appears to be a man or a kind of

401
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: humanoid figure. She tells everyone. She tells Juno, and Juno

402
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 1: gaslights a ship at us her home wrecker of all

403
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: people to be gaslighting Sarah. At this time, jess I says,

404
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: are you shady? So no one believes her, but then

405
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: they do, because they all get attacked by what turns

406
00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: out to be cave dwelling cannibalistic humanoid creatures. Wikipedia calls

407
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: them crawlers. It kind of looks like I mean, I

408
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: feel like it looks like a variation on so many

409
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: horror movie characters that at least I'll give them credit

410
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Speaker 1: for not making the entire head of vagina mouth, which

411
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: is usually what happens, but it is still just like

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Speaker 1: a fleshy mystery. I like that they actually built it

413
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Speaker 1: to kind of make sense. I'm saying this because I

414
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: also just watched A Quiet Place for the first time

415
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 1: and you're just like, oh, vagina mouth, got it. But

416
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: this one, I mean, I like that they at least

417
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: like took the time to be like, oh, it makes

418
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: sense that this creature would evolve the way it did.

419
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Speaker 1: Like it is kind of like a water bats thing.

420
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: Like it makes sense enough. It's really scary to look at.

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Speaker 1: I like the mother and child pair, no no, no no,

422
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: But I mean there's a little they made in this.

423
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: It's very baffling to me that, like the female cave

424
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: dweller has long but but the male ones are bald,

425
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: and it's like that's not how that works. She also

426
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: has some cool like body chats going on, Like I

427
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: saw some like chess tattoos happening. It was like a

428
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: chess piece that or it was a clothing piece or

429
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: her skin was very mutually. I thought she has she

430
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: seems to have like breasts, she's got like cave dweller titties.

431
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: It was kind of I mean, I thought that was

432
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: interesting because I felt like in that it's like a

433
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: conversation that I feel like we usually have during animated

434
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: movies where it's like a I don't know, like kind

435
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 1: of needless gender coating where you're like, why are you

436
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: giving this like creature a hairstyle? Like what are you doing?

437
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: Because I'm just thinking about her, like what what were

438
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 1: the decisions? Like someone looked at her, they put their

439
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: hand on their other chins, step back, and they're like, yeah,

440
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: that looks I think this is that you guys, I

441
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: think we've got it. We've got the female cavedwaller, just

442
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: the one and her little baby that she protects. Yeah, well,

443
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: women be raising children without the assistance of the monster father. Yeah.

444
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm also just like I guess the filmmakers were like, well,

445
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: most women above ground have long hair and most men

446
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: have short hair, so that's how these cave dwellers will

447
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: also look. They evolved like according to Western fashion, which

448
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: is how evolution works. But they did say that they

449
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: were from like a hundred years ago, which was a

450
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: more traditional time. Maybe I don't know. I don't really

451
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: want to see. I aren't they supposed to be from?

452
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: Like No, I think it's there were other like spi

453
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: lunkers who had tried to explore the cave, but they

454
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: also got murdered by these cave dwellers who had been

455
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: there for I'm guessing millennia. Yeah, I guess that's not

456
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: how humans evolved. Yeah, well, what do you think it was? Like?

457
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: I don't know this was, don't I honestly wasn't thinking

458
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: about it that hard. But would it have been like

459
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: people who got stuck there in like cave dwelling times

460
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: and that's why there's cave paintings, and then it's like

461
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: those people evolved into the cave dwells. Yeah, that's I

462
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: think where some of the story logic does get a

463
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: bit muddied, because you know, in the in the in

464
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: human migration, the humans because they're in Appalachia right, humans

465
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: didn't arrive to the America's until about you know, there's

466
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: there's debate on exactly when it was, but that was

467
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: somewhere around I think years ago is a number that

468
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: we know think it was. So it might just be

469
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: that very you know, early humans had gone into these caves,

470
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: decided to stay there, evolved, or maybe they got stuck

471
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: there and they found a way to survive and then yeah,

472
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: generations of I don't know, like they evolved to the

473
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: space of like it makes total sense that they're blind

474
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: like all that. I don't know, And I mean there's

475
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: I have a whole spiel on like how disability is

476
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: treated in horror movies that we'll get into. But yeah,

477
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how these cave dollars came to

478
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: be there. Yeah, I guess we're not meant to think

479
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: too hard about it. Yeah, we just have to suspend

480
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: our disbelief. But I just still want to know why

481
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: they chose for the female to have long, curly hair

482
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: and like chest and armed tattoos. And she did not

483
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: pass the backdel test for sure, she didn't have a name.

484
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: She protected a man. We never got time with her.

485
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: I think she was the one to underserved female of

486
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: the film Justice, and of the only things we knew

487
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: about her was that she was a mother. Yes, yes,

488
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: a loving, heartfelt mother who would die for her own

489
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: And I think we should take a moment of silence

490
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: for this lost cave dweller. I know, because she gets

491
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: stabbed in the eyeball. Oh, I know. So Sarah has

492
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: spotted one of the cave dwellers. No one believes her.

493
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: Then they get attacked. Holly gets killed by one of

494
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: the cave people. Juno manages to kill one of them,

495
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: but then she also accidentally stabs Beth and leaves her

496
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: there to die poopsies. I'll have a whole thing about

497
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: that as well. We'll get there. Then Juno, Becca, and

498
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: Sam they're trying to find their way out. Sarah has

499
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: gotten separated from the group and she finds Beth, who

500
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: was not all the way dead yet. And Beth is like,

501
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: don't trust Juno. She did this to me. Also, she

502
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: was having an affair with your husband, and she's like,

503
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: well shit. In my opinion, Beth is really blowing her

504
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: last moments on earth, like getting into other people's business.

505
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: It's like, do you have like a family that you

506
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: would like a message passed on to or are you

507
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: just gonna like gossip into an early grave? Like what's

508
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: going on? It's like, well, I have no choice but

509
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: to just tell you this because fuck everything and bleeds

510
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: to death imagine why they're dying breath to be like

511
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 1: by the way, um, did you know? It's so bizarre right,

512
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: Like this is like literally a matter of life and death.

513
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: Like that's the thing. Like this movie was like women

514
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: are so petty that in their dying breaths they're going

515
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: to gossip and they're going to murder each other. Wow,

516
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: that's real. Which is interesting because they're all like, you know,

517
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: thrill seekers, and they all knew what they knew it

518
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: would be like some danger doing this, um, whether it

519
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: was charted or uncharted. But the fact that like all

520
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: of a sudden, they all freak out and have no

521
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: idea what to do, Like they all just freak out

522
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: and like, wait, don't you all like to do this?

523
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: You know? Like parkor over here is just like jumping

524
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: around and like splits her bone out of her legs

525
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what the what are you doing? I

526
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: feel like you should know you should be a little

527
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: more conscious and then oh, I love Okay, I don't

528
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: even think you've gotten there. I'll let you continue. Um okay.

529
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: So then Sarah manages to kill a few of the

530
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: cave dwellers. Then Becca and Sam get killed, and so

531
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: now it's only Sarah in JUNO. Wait, but Sam's death

532
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: was I feel bad because I laugh every time because

533
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: she's like fucking up going to I'm going across and

534
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: she like starts hooking up and and then she puts

535
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: the knife in her mouth when the cage dweller comes

536
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: at her, and I was like, Oh, she's gonna use

537
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: a knife to like stab it, but then it splits

538
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: her throat and then she just leads out. It was like, wait,

539
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: what was the point of any of that. That's the

540
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: other fun example of instant karma in this movie that

541
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: I really thought was fun was like she's about to

542
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: ditch all of her friends and then immediately it just

543
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: it just blows up in her face in the worst

544
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: possible way, and she wastes rope. I'm like, selfish, right,

545
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: she done goofed? I think I might have misinterpreted that.

546
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: I thought she was like trying to kind of martyr

547
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: herself to like get but I don't know. That doesn't

548
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: make any sense. She was bailing. She was leaving just

549
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: like freaked out. It was like I'm over this, I've

550
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: been over this. She I think her pipe was like

551
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: I don't really know most of the people on this

552
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: trip very well, like come on. I think that was

553
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: like park Or. Also sorry, I can't help but call

554
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: her Parkor. But I felt like she was also like

555
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: this dude, just like skirted out. We're like, where you bro,

556
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: where are you going? She thinks she sees daylight. Yeah,

557
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: they're like it's phosphorus in the rocks or something. Fact,

558
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: now I know that you know which we're gonna do

559
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: after this. Um okay. So Becca and Sam get killed

560
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: and now it's only Sarah and Juno. They join up

561
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: and Sarah is like, hey, Juno, I heard you were

562
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: having an affair with my husband. Stab kind of stabs

563
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: her in the leg and leaves her to be eaten

564
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: by the cave people, which was I thought a more

565
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: colder move than to just kill her. She's like, bitch,

566
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to kill you. I'm gonna just let

567
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: you fight in fear for your life. Also like why

568
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: would she leave her behind? I mean, I understand why

569
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: she was like, draw the attention to you so I

570
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: can bounce, But it really felt very like Sarah's character

571
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: was so hard to keep up with because I was like,

572
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: what's your what is your intention going into this strip? Why? Why? Why?

573
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: I had to be honest, there's like three blonde women

574
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: in the cave, and it's so dark that sometimes I'm like,

575
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: I don't know which blonde woman it is. I appreciate

576
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: that they keep saying everybody's name very frequently, because I'm

577
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know if this is a protagonist

578
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: blonde woman or an ancillary blond woman. Well, like you

579
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: mentioned Derby, the director was like, yes, I gave the

580
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: women different accents so we could tell them apart. And

581
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: it's like that didn't work at all. It's like, have

582
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: some more women of color in the group, that would help. Yeah,

583
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: exactly two thousand and five, black people weren't around yet

584
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: at that point. What happened here, I really couldn't get,

585
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: like one black British person, get Naomi what's her face?

586
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: From twenty days later? She's great In twenty days later,

587
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: I got to rewatch that. That's a good rewatch. I

588
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: just rewatched very quarantine friendly. Yes, I'm and there's so

589
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: few Naomi Harris, right, Naomie Harris, Yes, sweet Angel who

590
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: she stopped aging. I think after twenty days later she

591
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: looks exactly the same. Yes, Oh, she's in the new

592
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: James Bond to Oh that's right. Yeah, um okay. So

593
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: then they're then the ending in there, Jamie. Like you mentioned,

594
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: there are two different two versions of the ending. There's

595
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: the US cut, in which Sarah makes her escape. She

596
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: finds the other exit, crawls on top of a pile

597
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: of bones to get up out of the cave. I

598
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: also feel like when she emerges through like the tiny

599
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: little hole, that's going to be like how we all

600
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: come out of quarantine. We're just like we're like popping

601
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: out of the ground, seeing daylight for the first time

602
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: in a while. We're all covered in blood, and gets

603
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: like a mile away from our homes, then burst into

604
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: tears like yeah real, yeah. Anyway, so she she gets out,

605
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: she makes her way to the car, drives away a

606
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: little bit, pulls over, vomits, and then she has a

607
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: hallucination of of Juno being in the car with her,

608
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: and then we smashed cut to black now that I

609
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: think the same thing happens in the UK version. But

610
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: then there's a little bit more. We smash cut back

611
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: to the toy, back to reality, right where she had

612
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: just hallucinated her escape. She wakes up. She sees like

613
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: another hallucination of her daughter and a birthday cake, and

614
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: then all the cave dwellers descend upon They dissent upon her,

615
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: uh and then she presumably dies. I read that the

616
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: US ending is the US ending because they did a

617
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: screening in the US of the u K. And they

618
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: were like, oh hell no that I remember reading quote.

619
00:36:52,680 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: It was uber uber hopeless. Yes, because American movie go ours.

620
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 1: Really they like a happy ending. We're very fragile. Yeah,

621
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: I think I like the UK ending better. Same. I've

622
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: watched the I watched the whole movie through with the

623
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: American ending, then found out about the UK ending. I

624
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: like it better. I like my ending the best, and

625
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: my ending is Sarah and Juno both live. Sarah doesn't

626
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: try to kill her friend. She's still mad at her,

627
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: but she's like, come on, we'll deal with this on

628
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: the surface. Let's get out of here. They apologize to

629
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: the cave people for trespassing on their land. They're like,

630
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,439
Speaker 1: so sorry, we shouldn't have we should have never come.

631
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: Are bad? Get them like a year's supply of animals.

632
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: Open a small business. I want them to open a

633
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: small business. Yes, yes they do. They start like a

634
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: diner in the middle of the woods. Yeah. Uh well,

635
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we will come

636
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: right back and we're back. I want to give this

637
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: movie props up top for I mean, in terms of

638
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: the metric we use the Bechdel test, this movie really

639
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: couldn't fare better. It's mostly women talking to women about

640
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: surviving the whole cave situation. Um, I think the one

641
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: but but the one, like, the one male presence looming

642
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: over this movie is her husband, and I think, I mean,

643
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's it's not certainly not

644
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: the most egregious example of this, and so I wasn't

645
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: like extremely put off. But Caitlin, I feel like you

646
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: already kind of alluded to this, was that the whole

647
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: element of like the jealousy and the suspicion and that

648
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: kind of translating to basically leaving Juno for dead at

649
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: the peak of the movie when we don't really know

650
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: enough about the husband and I feel like the movie

651
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: just assumes that the husband was an awesome guy, which

652
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: is like, well, we don't know that. We see him

653
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: for two seconds and he's being distant and he was cheating,

654
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: and he was cheating on her. So it's like I

655
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: feel like it was like a slight writer telling on

656
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: themselves situation where it's like, well, he was her husband,

657
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: so I'm sure that he was. It was just you know,

658
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: he was tricked. He was you know, because women, you know,

659
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: women be tricking men and whatever. One of the oldest

660
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: tropes in the book. But I didn't think it's interesting that.

661
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really necessarily want them to burn

662
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: any time in this movie, like talking about this husband,

663
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: I don't really care, but it does seem to kind

664
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: of assume that, like he was a great guy and

665
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: therefore all of the blame for this infidelity is on Juno. Right. Yeah,

666
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about that. He is kind of looming.

667
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: He is kind of looming over the movie because we

668
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: think of it. I mean, I really love how they

669
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: told the moments, like I feel like it was so

670
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: to the point, like we did not suck around, we

671
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: didn't get little lovey dovey moments, but that moment where

672
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: he walks over to Juno when they get out the raft,

673
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you are so shady. Oh no,

674
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: And then Beth catches on and I'm like, mm hmm,

675
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: that that's kind of shady too for not saying anything.

676
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: I feel like a good friend should say something personally,

677
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, like if someone if one of my best

678
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: friends in this trio knew you were cheating or my

679
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: husband was cheating on me with other friends, mit, you

680
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: better tell me. You know, you gotta tell each other things,

681
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: and you have to believe each other and not not system.

682
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: So I'm on life system. Juno is clearly like, I mean,

683
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: it takes two to tango in this situation and the

684
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: friend betrayal, Like that's the worst, that's a horrible thing

685
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: to do. But I do. But but I don't think

686
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: that this movie really recognizes the two to tango situ

687
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: vation unless Sarah is so like Galaxy braining her own grief,

688
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: which we know she isn't that She's like, well, I

689
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: can't hold my husband accountable at this point, so I'm

690
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: shifting the blame. I don't. I don't know what's really

691
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: coming again, like I understand Sarah's anger and feelings of

692
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: betrayal when she finds out that Juno was having this affair,

693
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: but to the extent that you're going to let her

694
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: die and be eaten alive by these like cannibalistic cave dwellers,

695
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: Sarby you were saying, and like I do kind of

696
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: I'm kind of assuming that this is what Neil Marshall

697
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: is going for, is that like this experience has like

698
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: hardened Sarah so much that it's like, you know, you

699
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: have wronged me, and like this is a game of survival,

700
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: and like I don't need you to survive anymore, and

701
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: you've wronged me, so you know, fuck you. I'm leaving

702
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: to steal your car. I guess, yeah, but yeah, I

703
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it's I'm kind of I was

704
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: kind of glad that like that was I mean, it

705
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: is definitely a thing, and it also I feel like

706
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: it's compounded by the fact that Natalie Mendoza is the

707
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: only woman of color in this entire movie, and she

708
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: is like the villain of the story, and she is

709
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: like this temptress and she is you know, I mean,

710
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: it's a lot of negative stereotypes like all foisted upon

711
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: this one character. She's also the only American character, but

712
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: American people are horrible and they'll probably steal your husband.

713
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: But I mean just also the fact that she was

714
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: the one to like trick them, like, we're not going

715
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: to the cave where we're like safe and that's actually

716
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: been charted. We're discovering this nuke and her what she

717
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: tells Sarah is that you know, I was doing this

718
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: for you. We were going to name the cave after you,

719
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: Like this whole thing is so that you can help

720
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: get over your grief or I don't even know what

721
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: logic was. I will say that line made me laugh

722
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 1: a lot because I'm like, imagine naming a cave Sarah,

723
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: Like what, welcome to the Sarah Cave. You're just like

724
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: his name sucks. Let's let's pick another. But yeah, yeah,

725
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: I was looking into and we sort of talked about

726
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: it already, but like the casting process for this movie,

727
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: because I was curious of like, wow, was this a

728
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: movie that was written for women specifically? And it wasn't originally,

729
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: which which I think is kind of interesting and like

730
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: harkens back to stuff we've talked about before. Where it

731
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: was supposed to be a cast of men and women.

732
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: But then Neil Marshall's business partner said, hey, horror movies

733
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: never have all women, so marketing, and Neil Marshall was like, okay,

734
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: and then and then it says and again this is

735
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: we're about to give him like a trophy for the

736
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: bare minimum. But it does. It was said in a

737
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: lot of press at the time that after deciding Okay,

738
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to cast you know, all women in this movie,

739
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: he talked to women. He knew, I know, like the

740
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: thing that male screen writers never ever do. He's like,

741
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: I asked for their advice, and I asked, you know,

742
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: what are things that they say and talk about. I'm like, what,

743
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: We're like a creature you've never delved again, Also, give

744
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: the damn movie to a woman's direct and to write

745
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: and to oversee, like how many men were behind that

746
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: camera making that movie. That's I want to know. I'm saying.

747
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 1: For the for the sequel, the editor, the male editor

748
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: of the first movie directed the sequel, which is like,

749
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: come but but I do. I mean, it's like, I

750
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 1: mean as far as I mean, Kittlie, and you've talked

751
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: about this before. In terms of like your classes of Like,

752
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: if you are a male writer that wants to write

753
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: about women, the least you can do is do your homework,

754
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: like and talk to women. And I don't know, the

755
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: interactions with women, especially like the hanging out at the

756
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: beginning and stuff like that, like it felt pretty authentic.

757
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was like light impressed. I was like,

758
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: all right, Nel Marshall talked to a woman about this,

759
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: just imagine. Yeah. I like that they were all hungover too,

760
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I like that they all got like wasted

761
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: and smoked weed, low key and all that. And I

762
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: was like there were moments I was like, these are

763
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: a women, but I really didn't think deeper on. Yeah,

764
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: it's like that we're going to make them petty. Like

765
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: Sarah's character was just so much more of a tool

766
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: than an actual person, Like she was just there to

767
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 1: like help set shut up and make things happen. Because

768
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, if you are the type

769
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: of person to just go and kill your friend that

770
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: your husband cheated on you with, you know, a bitch,

771
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: maybe you deserve to be cheated on. I said it.

772
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: I just don't like, I mean, I like that you

773
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:06,919
Speaker 1: have a depiction of like these complicated female friendships where

774
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: like one of them is doing something wrong and like

775
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: going behind her friends back and having this affair. Like

776
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: people are complex, people make horrible mistakes, people do really

777
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: bad things. But like again the movie, like the suggestion

778
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: that she's like, well, I know we were best friends

779
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: up until five minutes ago, but now I'm going to

780
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: kill you. Um, I just the thing for me. Like

781
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: the first half or maybe even the first like sixty

782
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: minutes of this movie, I think are like really good

783
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: for looking at it through our lens of Like women

784
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: are shown being very capable. We see them having physical strength,

785
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: we see them being athletic, like all this stuff they're doing,

786
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: I like that. Um it seems like there was care taken.

787
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: And like each woman in the in the group has

788
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: um like specialty that is not like Mary Sue, that

789
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: is like established in their character that is able to

790
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: move the action forward. Where there's like someone who's a

791
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: medical student and so she's able to do first aid

792
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: when someone's like gets busted, and like everyone has some

793
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: knowledge that is able to assist in moving forward, which

794
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: is like good right, And you know women don't always

795
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: get there for sure, and like we see them like

796
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: have to fight off the cave dwellers in a way

797
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: that is not sexualized, like one of the like one

798
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: of the major tropes of horror movies and especially like

799
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: slasher movies is women being sexualized and then also being

800
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: shamed for being sexual so you don't get any of that.

801
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: They have like outdoorsy skills. We see Sarah like she

802
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: figures out that there's like I think, what's kerosene in

803
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: an old lantern. She uses that to light a torch,

804
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: which she has to do like a flint kind of

805
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 1: like that was cool. I was like, oh, that's where

806
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: I would have died. I guess right exactly. So we

807
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: see that. We see Becca is the one who crosses

808
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: like the ceiling of the ravine and like all that

809
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: upper body string she needs to and you can tell

810
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: how much she's struggling, but it's still like you believe

811
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 1: that she would be capable of that. Then it's Beth

812
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: who like notices the cave painting and like interprets it

813
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: because everyone else is just like this is nothing, and

814
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: she's like no, wait, like let's read this. Let's like

815
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 1: look at these clues. The first yeah, the first chunk

816
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: of the movie, it's all this really cool stuff that

817
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: you see these women do, and I was like, oh,

818
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 1: I and I and I didn't exactly remember how things ended,

819
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: so I was like really getting all geared up to

820
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: be like this is like a feminist masterpiece, Like definitely

821
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 1: there's not enough diversity. It's five of the six women

822
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: are white, ry heteronormative, in spite of seeming to like

823
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: suggest I thought something was being suggested between Holly and Juno,

824
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,919
Speaker 1: but then it's kind of dropped. I don't know, Yeah,

825
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: I did the moment, yeah, And I was hoping that

826
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: they would just make it explicit of like oh, these

827
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: are two either gay or bisexual characters. Awesome, but but

828
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: then they kind of just drop it and they're like no, no, no,

829
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: no no. And then Holly like even it's like no

830
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: no no, no, no, no no no, I want to

831
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: have a lot of hetero babies, and you're just like okay, Holly, Like, um, so,

832
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: I think there's like some really cool subversions of the

833
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: horror genre that we're seeing in this movie. But then

834
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: man gets fridged. Man Yes, yeah, he and the only

835
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: man we see, or at least the only man right

836
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: gets killed almost instantly, so it's it's a lot of

837
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: like cool subversions. But then like by act three the script,

838
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 1: this writer was like, oh wait, I forgot that women

839
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: are really petty. I have to write this into the movie.

840
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: They're also in a huge vagina there. I'm sorry, I

841
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,760
Speaker 1: just can't say it enough. I like, I just feel

842
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: so just I don't know, like I think this is

843
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,919
Speaker 1: a very inventive, subversive horror movie, but like men making

844
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: horror movies, they literally cannot help themselves. Like they can't

845
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: help themselves. There's a huge vaginal metaphor in every single

846
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: one down to that. I mean, the pool full of

847
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: blood at the heart of that. I mean it's just

848
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: like it's like that's the ter we get it, honey,

849
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: Like just call your mom, like I don't know what

850
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: to tell you, to tell you. I also feel like

851
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: usually when we see women who are hallucinating in films

852
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: or like you know, are seeing things that we the

853
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: audience are also seeing with her, that usually it's men

854
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: like you're just crazy, you're making it up, or it's

855
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: like some old or a woman mother character who's like, yeah,

856
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 1: I know you're just seeing things. But I think seeing

857
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: everyone doing that with her was also kind of breaking

858
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: that stereotype of like sometimes people just don't believe people,

859
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: like I think that. I kind of like that we

860
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,919
Speaker 1: were seeing everyone, well Juneo gaslighting her, but even Beth

861
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: is like, you're just seeing things. It's okay. But I

862
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: was like, it's why don't they They should believe her.

863
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: I feel like they shell also be more sympathetic because

864
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: she just lost her child and her husband, which in

865
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: the griefing process, a year is like a second, Like

866
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: that's really not a lot of time from like what

867
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: your life was going to be. The rest of it

868
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: then turns into nothing, which I was also like, they

869
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: don't spend a lot of time on the grief. I

870
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yeah, that thing that happened, right, You

871
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: get like flashbacks of her having kind of like dreams

872
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: or visions of like the accident and stuff, but we

873
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,479
Speaker 1: really don't know. We don't learn anything about her daughter

874
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: or her husband before they die, so it's like, okay,

875
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: I thought that that I don't know, like that is

876
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: kind of in terms of how she is gaslighted by

877
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: her friends. I also thought it was like they were

878
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: dismissive of her because of her grief, and also because

879
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: they're like, well, you're just you're just being like on

880
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: edge because a cave just collapsed on your head two

881
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 1: seconds ago. And I'm like, well, that's a great reason

882
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: to be on edge. But like you know, there, that

883
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: was one that was another subversion. There's some I mean,

884
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten to the parts of this movie that

885
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: I don't love so much, but that was a subversion

886
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: that I thought was fairly effective of I don't know.

887
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: I was thinking at the beginning of this movie, where

888
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: something deeply traumatic robs a woman of her family. Instantly

889
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: I went to Midsummer uh movie that I think couldn't

890
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: handle that plot point any worse if it wanted to.

891
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: Like I just the opening sequence of Midsummer and this

892
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: is like some of the most irresponsive, bull like treatment

893
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: of mental illness I've ever seen in movies period. But

894
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 1: I think this movie toes the dealing with grief as

895
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 1: plot I think better than a lot of horror movies

896
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,479
Speaker 1: tend to. And it's like, I'm not a huge horror

897
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: efficient out of there. I'm sure there's other movies that

898
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: deal with it well, but I feel like there is

899
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: maybe a tendency and correct me if I'm wrong. But

900
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 1: a tendency to treat grief as like a hindrance, where

901
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: like I think that you know what Sarah is going through,

902
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 1: actually ends up kind of serving her in this situation.

903
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: It motivates her need to survive even though you know

904
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: she's dealing with it. It doesn't prevent her from handling

905
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: the situation at hand, even though her friends seem to

906
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: think it is. We find out almost immediately like no,

907
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: she is not, you know, like she's not being unreasonable.

908
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: What she's seeing is there. She's telling the truth, and

909
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: it works against the friends to disbelieve her because they

910
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,479
Speaker 1: think that she is just like in a bad place.

911
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: So I thought that that Platfoin was was kind of cool,

912
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: of like she's going through this very heavy, horrible thing,

913
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: but it's not, you know, it doesn't make it impossible

914
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: for her to survive. It actually kind of helps her survive.

915
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: Everyone else is kind of like I don't know, we

916
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: don't really know anyone else's backstory except part of Juno's

917
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: only because of the husband and other than that, like

918
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 1: even Sarah's like trying to find out like what everyone

919
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: else like has kind of back home, they like have

920
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: very small talk like so, what man do you have

921
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: back home? Which I was like, are you just assuming

922
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: everyone has a man back home? What if they have

923
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: a couple of partners? What if they have a same

924
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: sex partner? What if? What? And also why is everyone

925
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: identifying as this year? Like there was like obviously no diversity,

926
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 1: but I'm suial. Marshall's like, div who what, I don't

927
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: know what. I don't know anything. I don't know anything.

928
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: Asked me in fifteen years and I'll say I've been

929
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: doing it all wrong like everyone else. But yeah, I agree,

930
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: I think think that it definitely is. It's cool, like

931
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: if I were to put aside, like my deeper thoughts

932
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: that we've discussed about, you know how, it's kind of

933
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: weird that she kind of lippd at you know. At

934
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: one point it's like, wait, so now you're now you're

935
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: a total badass. He's like, you know, covered in blood

936
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: and you're kind of a cavewoman who has no words anymore.

937
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know. I guess if I was

938
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: grieving and this was just where I was, It's like, alright,

939
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: no time to fucking play anymore. Let's fucking do this.

940
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: Do you know, get out of my way, Like, yeah,

941
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: I can't make a whole lot of sense of it.

942
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: I guess my main thing with that whole scenario is

943
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: I wish that when Sarah did reveal that she's like

944
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: I saw someone I thought I saw before, and now

945
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: I definitely saw it and I'm not making this up.

946
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm not imagining it. And they're all like, nope, the

947
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: dark place tricks on you and there's nothing. You didn't

948
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: see anything, And I just I really wish like even

949
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: if they were incredulous, they should have still been like, well,

950
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: what did you what did you see or what do

951
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: you think you saw or what did it look like?

952
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,760
Speaker 1: And like, I just I wish that we had seen

953
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: just them making more of an effort to believe her.

954
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: I mean that is that's almost like a story bump too,

955
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: because it's like, at this point, aren't they all aware

956
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 1: that they are in completely uncharted territory, Like it's it's

957
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: kind of like the counterproductive to assume that anything you

958
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: would see is not there if it's like, well, what

959
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: do you know, no one's ever been here, you know,

960
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: Like but they also like no one knows how to

961
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: deal with anxiety and I hate to bring that piece

962
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: of ship movie back up again, but mids Omar was

963
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: just like that, like they you know, her boyfriend had

964
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: no idea how to deal with her anxiety disorder or

965
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: she bipolar in the film, but like in this it's

966
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: like no one knows how to deal with it, which

967
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: I think spoke to something it's like as someone with anxiety,

968
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: like often people will just assume that I'm being dramatic

969
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: or being sensitive, or I'm just seeing things. So I

970
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: felt like when they were like, no, no, it's fine,

971
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's really real. I mean, the conversation has

972
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: changed a lot now, just in time. Regardless off that

973
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 1: film really happened, could happen in real life, like I think,

974
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, as a kid, or even up until a

975
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: few years ago, people still will like, you know, just

976
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: assume I'm yeah, being dramatic or overreacting. But now there's

977
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: so much more compassion I think in the world, or

978
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: in at least in our world. And and so I

979
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: think that now if that movie is written, I think

980
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: there would be more like, well, wait, tell us what's

981
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: going on. But I think it kind of it seems

982
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: very real that they were all just like no, No,

983
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: you're just seeing things, you know, regardless that Yeah, like

984
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: you said, like they were in uncharted territory, So it's like,

985
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: I mean anything goes out here, like fucking Cageweller, Sasquash,

986
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: anything you name it, which they do make a joke

987
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: about earlier though, like it's probably Sasquatch, and I'm like, girl,

988
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: don't play because cuts to like sixty minutes into this film.

989
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: You're gonna be a lot You're not gonna be laughing

990
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: about that. I just yeah, I mean, like they at

991
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: this point, I think it's before this that they find

992
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: the cave painting, and they had found the old equipment,

993
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: so it's like, well, things aren't what they see. You thought,

994
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: no one's been done here before, and you've were proven wrong,

995
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: So why don't you listen to your friend? Why don't

996
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: you open yourself up to this possibility, open yourself up

997
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: like you've opened up this vagina of a cave and

998
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: just embark with it. When I was watching this, I

999
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: actually have like a game I play internally in movies

1000
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: with myself that sounds really dirty, like I try to

1001
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: guess like the character's zodiac sign, And so I felt like,

1002
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: what you know. I was like, she is a stubborn,

1003
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: relentless tourists with a Gemini moon because taurus Is are

1004
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: historically stubborn. As someone who dates a Taurus, I am

1005
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: a Tauris. Really, yeah, I gotta know more about your

1006
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: virtue because if you don't, are you a stubborn person?

1007
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: You're stubborn? Yeah for some things. Yeah, I can be pretty,

1008
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: I can be chill, and I contain multitude. I wonder

1009
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: what your moon is. Yeah, what's your moon? I don't

1010
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: know what that means. So we're gonna have to look

1011
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 1: it up. I'm going to find your birth chart. We'll

1012
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: do this after UM. But then with Sarah, I was

1013
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what everyone's signs were. And then

1014
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: also as I feel like it's the equivalent to like,

1015
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: you know, when people want to know my race, for example,

1016
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: it gets like them trying to like box me into

1017
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: like what they know about them. So I try. I'm

1018
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: very like, um, discriminating with zodiac signs. I'm like that

1019
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: bit just for sure, or Scorpio. She's got the loving edge,

1020
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: you know, the loving edge, but at the same time

1021
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 1: she will cut you very fast. Um. But some of

1022
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: them were you know, a couple of them are definitely

1023
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: sagittarius a is, So I just was like, don't let

1024
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: them lead. You know, they want to be adventurous, but

1025
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: they're also going to be really indecisive and just be

1026
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: on their own. I think Sam was definitely a sadge.

1027
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: They want to be out there, but she was just

1028
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: a scared little shit at the end of the day

1029
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: and was like indecisive and was keeping her feelings or

1030
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,479
Speaker 1: was like letting her feelings overrun everything else without seeing

1031
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: like logic. Anyways, that game can go very deep in

1032
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: my brain and then I'm like, what movie am I

1033
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: watching right now? I could listen to this for every

1034
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: movie that's ever come out. If we need a spinoff

1035
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: back delcast Um, Zodiac or I don't even know, just

1036
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: the full like movie character, what's your placement? Yeah, um, well,

1037
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

1038
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: for more discussion and we're back. So another thing kind

1039
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: of along the similar lines of what we were talking

1040
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: about in terms of kind of like women being pigeonholed

1041
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 1: as being petty. That ties into a horror movie, the

1042
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: convention of the horror movie kind of justifying why people

1043
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: die or get killed right. So like in a lot

1044
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: of slasher movies, it's like, if you're a teenager who's

1045
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: sexually active, you die. The classics. The classics, I feel

1046
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: like a lot of time men having too much hubris

1047
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: or I just won't bring a map. People who won't

1048
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: bring a map in general, they get they get killed right.

1049
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: Excessive pride, recklessness that will get a man killed. Um.

1050
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: I feel like oftentimes a woman being kind of oblivious

1051
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: or maybe even like to nurturing or to trusting, or

1052
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: just a failure to exercise logic overall will be what

1053
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: gets a woman killed. And this rang true especially for

1054
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: Beth beth death scene where Juno has just fought off

1055
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: two I think it's like two different cave dwellers. She

1056
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: kills one of them by stabbing it several times, which

1057
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 1: is really cool, right, and then someone sneaks up on

1058
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: her and it's Beth. But Juno doesn't realize this until

1059
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: it's too late, and she turns around and stabs Beth

1060
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: in the throat. Timmy fair, isn't that like an art

1061
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: student or something? I mean, she's she's the one who

1062
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: knows what the cave paintings means, so I was assuming

1063
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: and like, oh, so she's kind of like she's an

1064
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: artsy type. She's not a survivalist, but she's like she

1065
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: was whitewater rafting. She she's lunking. Like all these women

1066
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: are like seem to be very competent at these like

1067
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: extreme sports that they're doing. So for me, like Beth, what,

1068
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: like wouldn't she have just witnessed Juno killing these like

1069
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: cave dwellers and like, wouldn't she approach with caution and

1070
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: like exercise some logic and not just sneak up on

1071
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: someone who would be very easily startled. I agree, but

1072
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: I just didn't interpret that as gendered. I mean, I

1073
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: don't think it was like a very informed or thoughtful decision,

1074
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: but it didn't. I don't know, I didn't read I

1075
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,959
Speaker 1: read that as like thoughtless but not gendered, especially because

1076
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: I think it would be one thing if if many

1077
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: of the other characters were men and they died in

1078
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:26,439
Speaker 1: a way that wasn't so like they're oblivious. I would

1079
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: have read that as more gendered. But it's still But

1080
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: I think it is a gender trope in other horror

1081
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 1: movies with mixed casts. So I was disappointed to see

1082
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: a pop up in this movie. I mean, I guess,

1083
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: I guess that to me, like that kind of certain

1084
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that certainly serves to further villainized Juno, even

1085
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: though like when I saw that, I'm like, oh, well,

1086
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 1: that's like really unfortunate. And of course she's going to

1087
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: lie about it because you don't want people to get

1088
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: mad at you, and they're already mad at you for

1089
01:03:54,720 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: bringing them into an unmarked cave. But like, and so

1090
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like that's that ultimately, that

1091
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: decision like further villainized Juno where I don't know, I

1092
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: just didn't care about Beth and then and then and

1093
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 1: then and then when she was dying, she was just

1094
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: you know, gossiping to the grave. So she was hanging

1095
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: in there though, because a while passed when she came

1096
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: up and she was like, I was like, oh you're

1097
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 1: still around, Like how did you still literally drowning in

1098
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: your own blood for the last Like so this isn't

1099
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: and that you can still speak enough to gossip with

1100
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: your friend. Yeah, part of me has to admire it,

1101
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: but that was a very bizarre choice. Yeah, I do agree, though, Caitlin.

1102
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: You made a good point about how it's like, yeah,

1103
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: there was a lot of um and derby words. There

1104
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 1: was a lot of cool ship that happened with the

1105
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: characters up until the Cage Dwellers came out, and then

1106
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: the writer was like, oh ship, yeah, women are let's

1107
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: do all these things. And who knows because I'm sure

1108
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: what you know as the writer listens to this episode,

1109
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,959
Speaker 1: that they're gonna feel very defensive And no, I didn't

1110
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: think that, but it's like, but there's something to be

1111
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: said and that you know, the same conversations happening about

1112
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: white supremacy and the covert and overt behaviors that we

1113
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: all harbor, I as a black person harbor, and that

1114
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's like we harbor a lot of sexism.

1115
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 1: And I think the writer maybe thinking like, well, this

1116
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 1: is you know, women can keep it cool until she

1117
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: goes down, and then they're gonna turn on each other.

1118
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: They're gonna gossip to the bloody grave, They're gonna stab

1119
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: each other in the leg with a pick. But I

1120
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: think that, like if I hope that the writer hears that,

1121
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: and that Neil Marshall hears that, and it's like, well,

1122
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: why why is it that when women are saving and

1123
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: protecting themselves like that, they actually just fully abandon all

1124
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,479
Speaker 1: the rules, right, they were like rule number two, don't

1125
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: leave each other, and then they all left each other.

1126
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: There was no like, you know, Juno couldn't be in

1127
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: leadership anymore for everyone, which I thought made sense for

1128
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: her character because she was obviously like going through her

1129
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: own ship. She's like, I can do this cave trip

1130
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: with Sarah. Oh my god, no I can't. I'm a

1131
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: horrible person, but I just need to like make up

1132
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: for it. But everyone else it was just it was

1133
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: just weird. It was like all the character strengths were

1134
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: abandoned as soon as the Cagewellers, which I think obviously

1135
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 1: what happened. No one's going to do it perfectly, but yeah,

1136
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: I guess when I think about it now, that was

1137
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: obviously when the movie shifted, but the characters greatly shifted

1138
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: and the writer like abandoned, and it like it does

1139
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: imply that, yeah, like women at their like core or whatever,

1140
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,919
Speaker 1: like when you're down to that survivalist core, that these

1141
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 1: are like inherent behaviors where which sucks. And it's like,

1142
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like, yeah, more often when

1143
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: you have like a majority male cast. It's like the

1144
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: hero jumps out when you're like brought to your you know,

1145
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 1: Revenant Survivalist. I haven't seen that movie, but like whatever

1146
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: you get inside a bear and you live man, because

1147
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: that's what you do. That is that what happens? I

1148
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: don't know. But more like like I just and it

1149
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 1: does seem like I I don't know. I would be

1150
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 1: surprised if Neil Marshall was like explicitly thinking, like you're

1151
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: saying Derby like, well, women are like this, so I'm

1152
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 1: going to write that. But but it is just like

1153
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: another weird example of someone kind of telling on themselves,

1154
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: possibly unintentionally. Men men be telling on themselves. Man, all

1155
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 1: the stuff they get me a hat that says men

1156
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 1: be telling on themselves, come to smirch. The next big

1157
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to touch on, and I foreshadowed this

1158
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: a little, is the demonization of disability in horror movies.

1159
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: We've talked to some extent in past episodes about how

1160
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: mental illness is demonized in horror movies. A lot. We've

1161
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 1: talked how aging tends to be demonized, especially as women age.

1162
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: It's often included as like right and the and the

1163
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: vivich um An Old women will be a part of

1164
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 1: the horror imagery. What we haven't talked about really yet

1165
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 1: is how disability is also demonized in horror movies. Um

1166
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: Where because in this movie, the cave dwellers are blind.

1167
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: This is a pretty I mean, you see it in

1168
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,679
Speaker 1: a few other horror movies. The quiet Place comes to mind,

1169
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: and you know, any any number of disabilities will be

1170
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 1: used and ascribed to the killer or the monster or

1171
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:53,600
Speaker 1: whatever it is that is causing terror for the protagonist,

1172
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 1: which just goes back to the I mean, part of

1173
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: why so many horror movies seem so horrifically dated when

1174
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: you watch them back later is because the villain is

1175
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: very often just what is the example of the other

1176
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 1: that the writer and the filmmaker is threatened by, which

1177
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 1: is I feel like there's a lot of racially motivated

1178
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 1: villains that we've seen in horror movies over the years

1179
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: because that is what the white writers thinks is going

1180
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: to be scary to people. That's where vagina mouth comes from.

1181
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 1: That's like there's there and and yeah, I think, um

1182
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 1: mental illness and disability in general kind of goes into

1183
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 1: that general like you know, it's the writers iming like, well,

1184
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 1: people aren't comfortable with this, and I have no interest

1185
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: in normalizing it, so let me basically weaponize people's own

1186
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: prejudices and affirm them through creating this monster. Yeah. I

1187
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: have a few quotes from a piece I found on

1188
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:02,480
Speaker 1: medium by Laura Elliott. It's entitled What's so Scary about Disability?

1189
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: Laura discusses how there are recurring tropes and horror movies

1190
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 1: that basically say disability equals evil and disfigurement equals morally bankrupt,

1191
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: and how a lot of these tropes and horror films

1192
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 1: are are rooted in and date back to a lot

1193
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 1: of old literature, religious texts, folk tales, fairy tales, things

1194
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: like that. She says, quote. Perhaps you might think that

1195
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 1: these stereotypes are no big deal, but the fact is

1196
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 1: that the horror genre is the only genre in which

1197
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: disabled people are regularly represented at all. In a report

1198
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: by the Media Diversity and Social Change Initiative found that

1199
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 1: of the top one movies that year, only two point

1200
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 1: four percent of disabled characters spoke or had names, despite

1201
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: the fact that one in five people around the world

1202
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: are disabled. So there's so little visibility and representation of

1203
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,560
Speaker 1: people with disabilities in movies, and it's so rare that

1204
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:12,799
Speaker 1: you see any kind of respectful or responsible representation because

1205
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:17,640
Speaker 1: disability is so often again ascribed to the villains and

1206
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 1: horror movies, and that's really the only visibility you get.

1207
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 1: And then another quote from this same article says, quote,

1208
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,839
Speaker 1: it's worth remembering that while horror entertainment frequently depicts disabled

1209
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 1: people negatively, there's essentially no other popular media to counteract

1210
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 1: these depictions. While there are countless disabled and disfigured people

1211
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: portrayed as killers and villains, we rarely ever get to

1212
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 1: be the heroes, and frequent negative representation breeds ongoing stigma

1213
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 1: and prejudice. End quote. So I mean, historically and film,

1214
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 1: this has just been unequivocally true in film. I mean,

1215
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 1: this movie came out fifteen years ago, movies like a

1216
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 1: Quiet Place about two years ago. I've been lightly encouraged

1217
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 1: in recent years of their being more representation of disabled

1218
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: people that are played by disabled actors as well. And

1219
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,879
Speaker 1: it isn't just I mean, I think there's it's basically

1220
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 1: a trope of of a very famous actor playing a

1221
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: disabled character in order to get an Oscar nomination like,

1222
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: that's a pretty common trope. But um, I will say

1223
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: in a quiet place, and I literally I literally just

1224
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 1: watched it for the first time last week. But um,

1225
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 1: the daughter in that movie is deaf preteen played by

1226
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 1: a deaf actress, Milicent Simmons, And that character, I mean,

1227
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,800
Speaker 1: is like one of the central characters. Her disability isn't

1228
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: played for evil or jokes, and it ends up actually

1229
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 1: kind of being something that she is able to, you know,

1230
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 1: work to her and her family's advantage in the story.

1231
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: So I am gent other And this is an example

1232
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: that is in let me be clear, not a very

1233
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: good movie, but one that I have seen before. Did

1234
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: anyone watch Unfriended Dark Web? Yes? I did not see it,

1235
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: so I've seen them both. I really enjoyed the Unfriended franchise.

1236
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: It is so silly. But um, in the second Unfriended

1237
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 1: and it is the worst one Friended twist, everyone's to

1238
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 1: hack her. But but there is a lead character that

1239
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 1: is deaf. She is a romantic interest. She has a

1240
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:39,759
Speaker 1: whole arc. The part is played by a deaf actress,

1241
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 1: and her disability isn't leveraged against her. She is a

1242
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: character that exists in this story and yeah, I mean

1243
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: we don't need to get into it too much, like

1244
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,560
Speaker 1: she and her boyfriend are kind of like there's a

1245
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: communication issues, but I thought it was dealt with pretty

1246
01:13:56,280 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 1: respectfully and so even in bad movies, you know, like there,

1247
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: but but I don't, you know, I don't think The

1248
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: Descent really qualifies as a movie that is handling this

1249
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: well at all. And yeah, I think, well overall, I'd

1250
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: be interested to hear from our listeners with disabilities on

1251
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 1: how because I think this movie isn't the absolute worst

1252
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 1: offender of demonizing disability in the horror genre. And yeah,

1253
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: I just i'd be interested to hear our listeners perspectives

1254
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: on that just kind of in this movie. And then

1255
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,919
Speaker 1: as a whole um friend of the cast. Kristin Lopez

1256
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: has done some really great writing on this as well,

1257
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:44,879
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll link some of her articles. It's definitely

1258
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 1: not a lot of solid ally ship from the other

1259
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: woman with her in this, and I think that's like,

1260
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: I mean a big part of what we're seeing in

1261
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 1: like the BLM movement is like how important ally ship

1262
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 1: is because like disabled people in this specific converse station

1263
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: can continue to like advocate and fight for the rights,

1264
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's like, how

1265
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 1: is everyone going to show up? How are they going

1266
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: to help make space? How are they going to help learn?

1267
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 1: And so on? And I think that, yeah, this movie,

1268
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: I think it's like a d and not an F

1269
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: and effort for ally ship. And I think Beth is

1270
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 1: the only reason why the greed went up in any sort. Um,

1271
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: even if she does get you know, chatty Cathy at

1272
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 1: the end and wants to get um. I wanted to

1273
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 1: bring up this book that um. Actually Alex Jacob's Got

1274
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 1: Me Once, House of Psychotic Woman and Autobiographical Topography of

1275
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 1: female neurosis and horror and exploitation Films. And it's a

1276
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: really dense and a really interesting formatted book. But I

1277
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 1: really like it because I've also thought more not so

1278
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 1: much on the physical disability side of it, but more

1279
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:57,680
Speaker 1: of like the like mental disorder side of things, Just

1280
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,800
Speaker 1: like as I explored my own anxiety and depression and

1281
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: mood swings through my twenties and seeing in movies and

1282
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: like my friends did that to me, I would be

1283
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 1: so mad, why are they treating? And then they cart

1284
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: you know, the protagonist still stands with them at that

1285
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:13,599
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, bit, you should have my back

1286
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 1: when I'm having a panic attack. Don't demonize me and

1287
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,600
Speaker 1: like isolate me in this um. But the book like

1288
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: dives into yeah, different films, mostly horror films, and you know,

1289
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 1: like Rosemary's Baby is a great fucking example of a

1290
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 1: time where we totally isolate someone who's like experiencing all

1291
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: these like you know, legitimate things within her female body.

1292
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 1: But then also you know, I as being possessed at

1293
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: the same time with the demon baby. Um. But I think,

1294
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think movies like that, and like Ginger

1295
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:46,759
Speaker 1: Snaps is a great example too of like talking about

1296
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:49,680
Speaker 1: like teenage girls coming into their own and everyone's like, oh,

1297
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 1: you're just having your period. I mean they become awarewolf

1298
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 1: but also you know, having that, and so I think

1299
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: that I like when movies do that, Like you were saying,

1300
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 1: Jamie at the Quiet Place, how that ends up working

1301
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: to the families benefit. Um, we're actually like works with

1302
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 1: the story. But you know, like Midsummer, you know, I

1303
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: know that guy tries to fucking talk about mental health stuff,

1304
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: but like god, he sucks at it, and I it's

1305
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: just it's for me. It's like it's a lot of

1306
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: like what I've experienced, you know, I think what I

1307
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:28,759
Speaker 1: I paid a lot of attention to good intention shitty

1308
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: impact a lot lately, and that guy is the epitome

1309
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:35,479
Speaker 1: of yeah, good intention, he wants to bring awareness to this,

1310
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 1: but then like, horrible fucking impact. So I think that

1311
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 1: when people want to write about disabilities, I'm glad you

1312
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 1: brought that up. I think people need to think about like, hey,

1313
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:47,560
Speaker 1: do you are you really the person to speak about this,

1314
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 1: like is this your place? Are you really gonna, you know,

1315
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 1: not further villainize this and further isolate this from the

1316
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 1: conversation of inclusivity and allyship and like be yeah, are

1317
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 1: you just gonna bring you know, the awareness to it

1318
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 1: that needs rather than just using it as like a tool,

1319
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 1: because it's exhausting watching it as a tool. I hate

1320
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 1: being seeing people like who are like me or people

1321
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 1: who have you know, physical disabilities, and they're just being

1322
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: villainized for that. So yeah, I don't think we see

1323
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: in nearly enough of you and just intersectionality in general,

1324
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: Like we'll see you know, white people and a disability,

1325
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: We'll see you know, black people and poverty, and then

1326
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 1: we'll start to see more and more layers. But I

1327
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 1: feel like the more layered intersectional films come more with

1328
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 1: like the indie films, they get the lower budgets and

1329
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: like the lower marketing and distribution ceilings. So I'm like,

1330
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: I would be so curious to see these films, you know,

1331
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 1: as we like, you know, layer up these identities and

1332
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:52,440
Speaker 1: these oppressions and privileges, but like with the bigger budgets,

1333
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 1: and I think people you know, can explore that a

1334
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 1: lot more with the bigger budgets that they get. This

1335
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 1: guy kind of had an opportunity, any uh. He caved

1336
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 1: in wish and the and the and that also will

1337
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 1: come with allowing black, indigenous people of color to make

1338
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:17,560
Speaker 1: their own movies, people with disabilities to make movies about themselves,

1339
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,839
Speaker 1: queer people to make movies about themselves. Yeah, God please.

1340
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 1: And since we're talking about horror this month, I mean,

1341
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 1: it's it's a genre that is so open, two different

1342
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 1: characters and and and so it's kind of I mean,

1343
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 1: it's frustrating to look back, and this is fifteen years ago,

1344
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 1: but it's frustrating to see a genre that's uniquely qualified

1345
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:46,679
Speaker 1: use its power for bad basically by by demonizing people

1346
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 1: instead of you know, representing them and lifting them up.

1347
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, you get a lot of freedom with

1348
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 1: horror movies. I mean I feel like the marketing for it.

1349
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:58,559
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people will make horror

1350
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 1: movies unless it's going to be like a quiet place

1351
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 1: or something like generally they're like, we know, we're gonna

1352
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 1: like stay within this pool of money and demographic and

1353
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 1: audience and YadA YadA. Yeah. I love horror movies because

1354
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 1: you get to explore these types of topics. I think,

1355
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 1: for me, Midsummer and Hereditary, which I so uh you

1356
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:25,480
Speaker 1: know words. Um, I'm just like they were so disappointing

1357
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 1: at the end of the day because I'm like, you

1358
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 1: had such a fucking opportunity. You had such an opportunity

1359
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: and yeah blew. And people won't stop congratulating you regardless,

1360
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,679
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like, yeah, Tony Collett was fantastic, but Tony

1361
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: Collett is always fantastic as an angel, Like what do

1362
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:45,719
Speaker 1: you expect. I don't expect anything less from her. Yeah,

1363
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 1: I hate ari esther and I don't like his movies,

1364
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 1: and but people just can't stop requesting them for us

1365
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 1: to do. They will be fun to cover when the

1366
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: day comes. But like, but I'm not in a rush

1367
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: I do I'm maybe I'm inventing this. I'm pretty sure

1368
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 1: that this is something that he said where he's like,

1369
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to direct a movie for a while.

1370
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 1: I'm just going to fund other people's projects. And it's like, yes,

1371
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 1: do that, um, and don't and you I better not

1372
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,599
Speaker 1: see you funding the project of siss hat white guys.

1373
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 1: Oh god. Also, okay, the irony of most horror movies

1374
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:32,880
Speaker 1: being made by and being about cissht white people and

1375
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 1: marginalized people being the people who actually experience most of

1376
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 1: the horrors in their lives. And and like horror movies

1377
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 1: are usually allegorical, right, the monster is never really a monster.

1378
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 1: The monsters in allegory for something. But I feel like

1379
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 1: even so, like there aren't that many allegorical films about

1380
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:02,680
Speaker 1: like racism or queer phobia or classism or anything like that,

1381
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: at least not ones that are are in the mains

1382
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 1: like us in the whatever that what is considered to

1383
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 1: be the horrican. And because I'm sure, I mean, we

1384
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,639
Speaker 1: know that these movies exist and that we're they're out there,

1385
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:17,640
Speaker 1: it's just they're not brought to the forefront of the

1386
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 1: way that they should be. Yeah, I'm in a weekly

1387
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: quarantined movie club with some with a friend and then

1388
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 1: he has a bunch of other friends and so we

1389
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 1: meet every Sunday at five on zoom. We watch a

1390
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 1: movie every week, and I've really enjoyed it because it's

1391
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,640
Speaker 1: like the first you know, Caitlin, I met you in

1392
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:39,640
Speaker 1: a very white world and uh, and I felt like

1393
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 1: talking movies as much as I love those sweet Gems,

1394
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,160
Speaker 1: it was always like I felt like I was always

1395
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 1: coming with this yeah, kind of intersectional angle that you know,

1396
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,280
Speaker 1: if you or Catherine weren't there for the night, then

1397
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, I'm like out here like drowning,

1398
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:54,679
Speaker 1: just trying to talk about I'm just trying to talk

1399
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:56,599
Speaker 1: about the movie. Right. It's like I think all women

1400
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:58,720
Speaker 1: can relate to, Like people want to ask us, like,

1401
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:01,640
Speaker 1: how is it being a female comic, How is it

1402
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 1: being a female writer. It's like, I just want to

1403
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 1: talk about being a writer. I just want to talk

1404
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:07,800
Speaker 1: about being a filmmaker. And so I feel like when

1405
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 1: I talk about movies, there's so much more of the

1406
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 1: layer of like having to talk through like the issues

1407
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 1: of it or like the lack of intersectionality in it. Um.

1408
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: But in this group, we're talking about movies YadA YadA,

1409
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:22,720
Speaker 1: and we I feel bad because I actually missed it

1410
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 1: so I haven't watched yet. But we watched Tales from

1411
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:27,680
Speaker 1: the Hood, which I had yet to see. Yeah, I

1412
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 1: haven't seen it either. Yeah, and we're trying to watch

1413
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 1: like sometimes we dive deep into like yeah this this

1414
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 1: white head like movies whatever. But they were also trying

1415
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 1: to you know, we watch like The Watermelon Woman, which

1416
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 1: was like the first out black lesbian made film. UM.

1417
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, we're like trying to explore movie more movies

1418
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:47,240
Speaker 1: like that, and I, you know, it goes back to

1419
01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 1: like how I see it as though, you know, like

1420
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 1: Jamie were just saying, you know, it's like, yeah, how

1421
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,519
Speaker 1: many movies don't really get out there? And it's like, well,

1422
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: it's like anyone who's marginalized, Like we might not get

1423
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:01,240
Speaker 1: the meeting, but if we get the meeting, how much

1424
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 1: do we get to pitch in the meeting once we're

1425
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 1: in the room, once we like get the movie greenlit,

1426
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:07,559
Speaker 1: Like how soon do we get to do the movie

1427
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 1: once we get the movie? Like, you know, we're kicking

1428
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:12,599
Speaker 1: into production. Is it going to happen on our timeline?

1429
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: Are we going to get the budget we want? Are

1430
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:15,639
Speaker 1: we going to get to hire the people we wanted,

1431
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 1: how much to produce? YadA, YadA, YadA. The ceiling is

1432
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 1: always there, and I think that, you know, a quiet place.

1433
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:27,640
Speaker 1: My biggest issue with it is like, why why this movie? Now?

1434
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: I love John Krasinski, fine, Emily Blunt, whatever, but like

1435
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 1: why did we need this movie? And I think get

1436
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 1: Out to me at that get Out in to us,

1437
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 1: We're going to be these like perfect like gateway to

1438
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 1: like black films. And then I've heard from friends who

1439
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, are like pitching movies out there, like, oh,

1440
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,720
Speaker 1: we already have get Out, you know. They're like they're

1441
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: like when we already have like the Black Horrors. And

1442
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you serious? Like what are all of

1443
01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:01,360
Speaker 1: the movies that we call classics, Godfather's, Goodfellas, Casino, Like,

1444
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:03,559
Speaker 1: it's all the same ship over and over. We're still

1445
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 1: letting Scorsese, you know. So I'm like, why why do

1446
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:11,679
Speaker 1: we get the ceiling? Why do black filmmakers get the ceiling?

1447
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:14,560
Speaker 1: You know, I could go deep, that could be a

1448
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 1: whole other episode one, but I think that that is

1449
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 1: something we said, we think that there's not as many

1450
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 1: out there. It's like, you know, people are like there's

1451
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 1: no female filmmakers or like excuse you, hello, No, that's

1452
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 1: why that's like the most frustrating fucking thing in the

1453
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:33,120
Speaker 1: world to hear that. Just it's like, unfortunately, so unsurprising

1454
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 1: of how it's just assumed that people want to see

1455
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 1: the same his head, male white stories told over and

1456
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:41,640
Speaker 1: over and over, and that's why they're made over and

1457
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: over and over and why the bar is so low.

1458
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:47,439
Speaker 1: This is um, I was Caitlin, I feel like maybe

1459
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:50,120
Speaker 1: I was talking about this with you not too long ago.

1460
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:53,760
Speaker 1: But there is a moment that Emily Yoshida, friend of

1461
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 1: the cast, pulled out of other friend of the cast,

1462
01:25:57,160 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 1: Karina longworths, we have so many friends have I mean, listen,

1463
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 1: our our show has been on for five years, um,

1464
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 1: but it's true for for as long as the cave

1465
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 1: people have been developing their wall climbing abilities. In any case,

1466
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 1: um Emily pointed out this part of Karina's most recent

1467
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: podcast season and you must remember this where she mentions

1468
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: that Wes Anderson, when he was developing Bottle Rocket his

1469
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:29,880
Speaker 1: first movie, the way he got that movie produced was

1470
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 1: that he wrote a nonsensical sixty page treatment treatment, didn't

1471
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 1: even format it like a script, didn't know how to

1472
01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:40,280
Speaker 1: format it like it's a script. And then instead of

1473
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:43,680
Speaker 1: someone saying, uh, this is not a script, go learn

1474
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:46,519
Speaker 1: how to do this, they said, we love it. You

1475
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 1: seem to have a lot of potential. We're gonna buy it.

1476
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:50,320
Speaker 1: We're gonna teach you how to write a script. And

1477
01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 1: then they like taught him on the ground, because that

1478
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 1: is I mean privilege firing on so many levels of

1479
01:26:57,200 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 1: like yeah, I don't know, and and just how you're

1480
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 1: eating That example is and to so many filmmakers that

1481
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 1: have no I mean truly no choice but to come

1482
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 1: knowing their ship and are still turned away when Wes

1483
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 1: Anderson is like what is what is the script? How

1484
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 1: do I do that? And they're like you're hired? Like

1485
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 1: it's just such I mean going back to kind of

1486
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 1: the horror conversation, like so many horror movies are about

1487
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:30,040
Speaker 1: like zombies and vampires and werewolves and any number of

1488
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,679
Speaker 1: other creatures that are not real because like the cistert

1489
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:37,240
Speaker 1: white men who are making these movies have to invent

1490
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:41,920
Speaker 1: things to scare them, whereas again, marginalized people live every

1491
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,640
Speaker 1: day in fear because they're so often the victims of

1492
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:52,480
Speaker 1: discrimination and oppression and violence or worse, they're they're taking marginalized,

1493
01:27:52,520 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: oppressed people and turning them into into the villains. So like, yeah, yeah,

1494
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: does anyone have any other thoughts about The Descent specifically

1495
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:17,759
Speaker 1: or yeah, um, I think it needed some more black people. Yeah,

1496
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:21,680
Speaker 1: and by some more yeah, I think they could use

1497
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 1: some more black people. That's my real of my final

1498
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:30,680
Speaker 1: thought hard degree the Descent because because you know, there

1499
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 1: are some great there are some great black actors, you know,

1500
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:35,720
Speaker 1: one or two out there that you know might have

1501
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:43,639
Speaker 1: been around, they didn't come around still twenty Um. Yeah,

1502
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:45,680
Speaker 1: I think that was like something that was sitting with me.

1503
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 1: But also, honestly, I'm fucking used to it. I'm so

1504
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:52,240
Speaker 1: used to like some of some of my favorite movies

1505
01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 1: are not black lead and created films. But then also

1506
01:28:57,240 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, the ways in which I allow

1507
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:03,680
Speaker 1: that to just be okay, And I've tried to boycott,

1508
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:07,720
Speaker 1: like watching white movies. It's fucking hard, dude. It's like

1509
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 1: it's super hard because our ceiling is just so so

1510
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:15,680
Speaker 1: low and even if there was a black actor on that.

1511
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 1: They probably would be coming out with a story now

1512
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 1: about how you know, other they felt, and there was

1513
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 1: it was an entire white male cast, you know, on

1514
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:26,719
Speaker 1: this and that, which I'm really carrious how many women

1515
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 1: were involved, and that we're not in the hair, makeup

1516
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 1: or producing department, because that's typically where we are on

1517
01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:36,160
Speaker 1: set or often where we're hired the most and people

1518
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:39,479
Speaker 1: want us. You're organized, so you're so together, like let

1519
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 1: me be dirty and be a grip, come on now,

1520
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 1: you know, but I want to be the best boy. Yeah, yeah,

1521
01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 1: I didn't see any I didn't see any women in

1522
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 1: at least high up behind the scenes roles in the Yeah,

1523
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 1: I definitely want to watch it with the commentary because

1524
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 1: when I was reading all the trivia was like five

1525
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 1: minutes into the trip or commentary and then they would

1526
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: say certain things. So I'm really curious about I want

1527
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: to hear their tone because I feel like you can

1528
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:13,400
Speaker 1: always like I can start to you know, sherylack Holmes

1529
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,880
Speaker 1: my way through tones and commentary or like wow, they

1530
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 1: really hated the process, Like Naomi Watts talking about um

1531
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:26,480
Speaker 1: maholland dry and her audition is just so sleazy and disgusting.

1532
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:29,720
Speaker 1: Like David Lynch like told her she came in and

1533
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:32,280
Speaker 1: then she had no makeup on because she wanted to

1534
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: seem natural. I think she was new to l a

1535
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 1: very similar to the character she hands up portray, and

1536
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 1: he said, come back with makeup, and so she's like

1537
01:30:40,920 --> 01:30:43,640
Speaker 1: and when she talks about it, she sounds sort of

1538
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 1: brain rush like, so, you know, I left and I

1539
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:48,400
Speaker 1: put on makeup and I came back and he was like, oh,

1540
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 1: this is better now, you know, And I was like yeah,

1541
01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 1: and I was like, man, but it's those things that

1542
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:58,360
Speaker 1: we allowed to not be, you know, the canceling factor

1543
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 1: or something that we think not worthy of bringing up

1544
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 1: about someone. And so we I mean we you would

1545
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:09,799
Speaker 1: all just have to unlearned the like really harmful things

1546
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 1: that we learned living in this like patriarchal structure. It's like,

1547
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:21,880
Speaker 1: I'm so curious if if The Descent had a bigger

1548
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:25,600
Speaker 1: turnout and was more like I think it's like a like,

1549
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:28,040
Speaker 1: I think it's got a good following, but I think

1550
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 1: I've had a more mainstream following that it seemed like

1551
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:33,800
Speaker 1: they were kind of hoping for. I'm curious if some

1552
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:36,600
Speaker 1: of those actresses would be coming out now and saying like,

1553
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 1: you know, we could have done more, we should have

1554
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:40,519
Speaker 1: made it more diverse, because it's when I'm watching a

1555
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 1: lot of like high supposedly high up like white women do,

1556
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:46,280
Speaker 1: They're like, I should have done more. I'm like, yeah,

1557
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:48,080
Speaker 1: but you should have done more. Why were you just

1558
01:31:48,160 --> 01:31:50,880
Speaker 1: sitting there because your privilege wasn't being tested? Where were

1559
01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 1: you fifteen years ago? Exactly? So I think it's like,

1560
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:56,719
Speaker 1: you know, I think low key this movie did speak

1561
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:01,880
Speaker 1: to like the white supremacy that like definitely boils within that.

1562
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:04,519
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, obviously this was a good

1563
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 1: movie to take a chance with an all female cast.

1564
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:08,960
Speaker 1: You had to throw a sister and there is something

1565
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: so absolutely I don't know, I mean. And it was

1566
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 1: a commercial success. It had like a three point five

1567
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:21,200
Speaker 1: British pound budget and made yeah, I don't know, but

1568
01:32:21,439 --> 01:32:24,559
Speaker 1: um but and then in in US dollars it made

1569
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:29,680
Speaker 1: somewhere around I think fifty five to sixty million at

1570
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:33,799
Speaker 1: the box office, So it was a box office success.

1571
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:37,880
Speaker 1: And honestly, this is one of our most requested horror

1572
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:40,200
Speaker 1: films to cover on the podcast. We've been getting this

1573
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:46,760
Speaker 1: request for long time. You're welcome, everybody, You're happy. It's

1574
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:49,720
Speaker 1: a solid film man for what it was when it was.

1575
01:32:50,360 --> 01:32:52,639
Speaker 1: You know, I think if they made that movie now,

1576
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 1: like even the movies I see coming out now, I'm like,

1577
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:59,120
Speaker 1: are you fucking serious? What year is this? Why is

1578
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:02,720
Speaker 1: this movie half inning right now? But I think for

1579
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:06,400
Speaker 1: two thousand five, for them to do a bunch of

1580
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:09,560
Speaker 1: women diving into caves with the budget that it was, like,

1581
01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:13,280
Speaker 1: I think, what, like, there's not many other films like that,

1582
01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:16,120
Speaker 1: Like I think, you know, like Twenty Days Later, Oh

1583
01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:18,280
Speaker 1: my god, Nami Harris, I don't know. There's so many

1584
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:22,439
Speaker 1: Naomi actresses. I get them all mixed. Um Nami Harris,

1585
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 1: like I think she to me when I saw Twenty

1586
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 1: Days Later, I was like, skirts, excuse me, this black

1587
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:31,519
Speaker 1: woman with this like kind of short pixie flat ironed

1588
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 1: haircut is just like kicking ass and saving this like

1589
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:37,800
Speaker 1: sad little white boy. Okay, I am here for this.

1590
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 1: But I feel like we only get those every so often,

1591
01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:44,040
Speaker 1: and then we got you know, not get Up. I

1592
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:46,400
Speaker 1: didn't like US. I thought US was horsha, to be honest,

1593
01:33:46,479 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 1: But I love Lupita. That Lupita like blew me the

1594
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:53,320
Speaker 1: funk away. So it sucks as a black mixed person.

1595
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:55,840
Speaker 1: Like every so often I get someone I'm like yeah,

1596
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 1: but then most of the time you're like, no, there's

1597
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:02,560
Speaker 1: not really anyone. Oh she is anxiety, I have anxiety.

1598
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:07,760
Speaker 1: Well I guess there's that, you know. Yeah, yes, Um,

1599
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:12,920
Speaker 1: Well does this movie pass the Bechtel tests? Oh? It

1600
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:18,080
Speaker 1: sure does, almost constantly, almost exclusively. Yeah. And it's interesting

1601
01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:22,360
Speaker 1: because I didn't like check this to the to the hilt,

1602
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 1: let's say, But I feel like even when they are

1603
01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 1: maybe the subtext is about her husband, they don't really

1604
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:35,639
Speaker 1: say his name, and they don't really mention him. It's

1605
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:40,040
Speaker 1: all kind of like subtext, and it's more they're talking

1606
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:44,439
Speaker 1: about grief than they're talking about him, except for like

1607
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 1: that one line where I'm like, Juno, what are you

1608
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:50,479
Speaker 1: doing where when she says she's not the only one

1609
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,760
Speaker 1: who lost someone in that accident, I'm like, why are

1610
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 1: you telling him yourself like this? You're like what? Um?

1611
01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:00,879
Speaker 1: But outside of that, yeah, they men aren't really mentioned

1612
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's true. Actually, And now

1613
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:06,639
Speaker 1: I think about like every time a man was mentioned,

1614
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:09,240
Speaker 1: You're like, oh a man, Oh I forgot about them?

1615
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 1: For a second, you know, like yeah, because Sarah asks

1616
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:13,600
Speaker 1: a couple of them like, so, do you have a

1617
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 1: man back home? And then yeah, we do talk more

1618
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:19,439
Speaker 1: about the grief of the husband and the daughter rather

1619
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:23,040
Speaker 1: than him. That's fine by me. It was a nice

1620
01:35:23,080 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 1: little break. Yeah, there were way too many questions, like

1621
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:27,920
Speaker 1: they almost like went around the circle do you have

1622
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: a boyfriend or husband? Yeah? That was ridiculous, which was

1623
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 1: like too much, But at least they also talked about like, yeah,

1624
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 1: I like spelunking, I'm in medical school, and here are

1625
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: some of my interests. But it did sort of feel like, Okay,

1626
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:47,320
Speaker 1: what do women talk about when they're not being killed

1627
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:51,439
Speaker 1: by or and also when they are being killed by

1628
01:35:52,720 --> 01:35:56,600
Speaker 1: all the men and the movie are killed. Yeah, and

1629
01:35:56,840 --> 01:36:02,599
Speaker 1: that's fine. The sequel also kills a lot because there

1630
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:06,120
Speaker 1: are it is a cast of men and women, and um,

1631
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:11,519
Speaker 1: all the men are also killed spoiler allergy. I'm curious

1632
01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:13,120
Speaker 1: to see that one. Now. I got a damn it.

1633
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 1: It sounds pretty good. It's it's not well, it's it's

1634
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:22,519
Speaker 1: the first one is a better crafted and like better

1635
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:25,320
Speaker 1: structured movie, and I think a more effective horror movie.

1636
01:36:25,800 --> 01:36:28,960
Speaker 1: H The second one, I think course correct some of

1637
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:34,439
Speaker 1: the issues and has another woman of color as one

1638
01:36:34,479 --> 01:36:38,040
Speaker 1: of the lead characters, who, Um, and I won't spoil this,

1639
01:36:38,240 --> 01:36:41,040
Speaker 1: but you know you're not unhappy about what happens really

1640
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:46,040
Speaker 1: with her. So it's a little better is her storyline,

1641
01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 1: Like she walks up to the cave and it's like, oh, hell,

1642
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 1: I'm not going in there. I'm out. I wish but

1643
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:55,200
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm going to break the stereotype. No black

1644
01:36:55,240 --> 01:36:59,360
Speaker 1: person is saying this. She black kind of latin X. Okay, okay, great,

1645
01:37:00,840 --> 01:37:03,919
Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch it. Yeah, but really looks like horseship,

1646
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 1: but I guess I'll watch it. So as far as

1647
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:11,160
Speaker 1: our nipple scale, UM, examining the movie from an intersectional

1648
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 1: feminist lens zero to five nipples. Um, Again, there's a

1649
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:19,599
Speaker 1: lot to appreciate about this movie, and there's there's there's

1650
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:22,400
Speaker 1: a lot to be upset by about this movie. Um.

1651
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:26,639
Speaker 1: It almost feels very equal. I'm almost inclined to give

1652
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:28,720
Speaker 1: it like a two point five, like a split down

1653
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 1: the middle because you see very capable, physically strong, outdoorsy

1654
01:37:35,160 --> 01:37:41,800
Speaker 1: athletic women who you almost never see. Um, they aren't sexualized.

1655
01:37:42,120 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 1: It's just a group of friends doing extreme sports until

1656
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 1: the cannibals, until the cave dollars come, and then you have,

1657
01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:57,680
Speaker 1: I mean, the only woman of color gets vilified, the pettiness,

1658
01:37:58,720 --> 01:38:02,000
Speaker 1: the petty behavior of some of the women. At the end,

1659
01:38:02,280 --> 01:38:04,880
Speaker 1: it all sort of cancels out. So yeah, I guess

1660
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 1: I would give it like a two point five. It

1661
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:12,040
Speaker 1: is very much a movie of its time. And this

1662
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 1: is a rating of of the film through an intersectional lens,

1663
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:18,600
Speaker 1: not as a film as a well, I want to

1664
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:20,759
Speaker 1: say is a cinematic piece, but I think we should

1665
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 1: start evaluating films through an intersection. So our our yeah,

1666
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:28,040
Speaker 1: our rating is based on like the lens. The only

1667
01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:31,040
Speaker 1: reason I'm I'm torn in this is because I feel

1668
01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:34,800
Speaker 1: like I typically rate films through this lens, but now

1669
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 1: there's other people doing it, and I'm like, am I

1670
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:39,000
Speaker 1: in the real world right now? You guys do this too,

1671
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 1: and this is way better? Okay, Because people will be like, oh, no,

1672
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:45,160
Speaker 1: I just thought it was a good movie. I'm like, oh,

1673
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: were you not uncomfortable by it? Like I was, Oh,

1674
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 1: that's so nice for you, and you're cute little privilege

1675
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:53,600
Speaker 1: go over there. Yeah, I think I would give it.

1676
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:57,280
Speaker 1: I think I would give it three nipples out of five. Yeah,

1677
01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 1: I'll split the deaf. I'll do two point seven. Very

1678
01:39:04,360 --> 01:39:08,360
Speaker 1: I love to get the decimal zone here. Um No, Yeah,

1679
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:11,160
Speaker 1: I think that, like, given the fact that it was

1680
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:13,960
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago and it is there is a lot

1681
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:16,640
Speaker 1: that this movie is doing in this genre that no

1682
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:21,600
Speaker 1: one was doing in this genre unfortunate. As as infuriating

1683
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:23,840
Speaker 1: as I find it, I do feel like there is

1684
01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:26,160
Speaker 1: I don't know how to properly phrase this, but like

1685
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:30,200
Speaker 1: there is kind of a like a tendency maybe in

1686
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:35,040
Speaker 1: movies of like once a male director proves, oh there

1687
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:37,960
Speaker 1: can be a you know, a horror movie starring all women,

1688
01:39:38,120 --> 01:39:41,759
Speaker 1: then it unfortunately kind of does get the ball rolling

1689
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:45,679
Speaker 1: to maybe let a woman direct a horror movie about women.

1690
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 1: But cause I feel like there's a lot of moving

1691
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:51,960
Speaker 1: in the right direction in some ways and then in

1692
01:39:52,120 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 1: other ways than complete like stagnation. But there is a

1693
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,000
Speaker 1: lot happening here that isn't happening really anywhere else in

1694
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 1: this space at that time. So I'll give it a

1695
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:05,400
Speaker 1: stew there. And it's really cool to see Sarah come

1696
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:10,400
Speaker 1: out of the the period pond and get all stuff.

1697
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:13,000
Speaker 1: I don't care what anyone says, it is it is

1698
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:16,479
Speaker 1: a men being afraid of Vagina's thing again just also

1699
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 1: very says normative get a life like anyways? Um yeah,

1700
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 1: two point two point seven five. I'll give one to Sarah.

1701
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give one to I give I'll give one

1702
01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:31,360
Speaker 1: to Juno because I said, I don't know why. I

1703
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:35,200
Speaker 1: was like, you know, Juno made mistakes, But who among

1704
01:40:35,320 --> 01:40:38,360
Speaker 1: us hasn't Who hasn't who among us their friends to

1705
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:43,920
Speaker 1: certain death on purpose? And I'll give the last three

1706
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:46,280
Speaker 1: quarters to Beth because I did think if it was

1707
01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:48,439
Speaker 1: funny that she was gossiping when she's dying. You know.

1708
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:56,000
Speaker 1: Oh well, Darby, thank you so much for being here,

1709
01:40:56,160 --> 01:40:59,840
Speaker 1: remember having me. What a treat that we are, just

1710
01:41:00,200 --> 01:41:03,799
Speaker 1: the fact that we all descended into this conversation together

1711
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:07,880
Speaker 1: and now we're crawling our crawling over the bones of

1712
01:41:08,080 --> 01:41:13,519
Speaker 1: people to get out. Yes, um, where can people check

1713
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:17,439
Speaker 1: out your stuff? Following nine, et cetera. Yeah, so um.

1714
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:21,880
Speaker 1: I'm pretty active on Instagram at Darblazy, des and Delta

1715
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:26,360
Speaker 1: asan alpha RBS and boy l easy y Um. I've

1716
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:28,720
Speaker 1: been doing a lot of customer service calls lately. Have

1717
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:31,880
Speaker 1: to spell my name out in letters like that? Um,

1718
01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:34,559
Speaker 1: what else? Do you do in quarantine but fixed problems

1719
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 1: you don't really have? UM, And yeah, I'm a filmmaker,

1720
01:41:38,840 --> 01:41:43,080
Speaker 1: artist consultant. I consult folks and film. I used to

1721
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:47,480
Speaker 1: run a collective cult Color Film, where we provided resources

1722
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:51,880
Speaker 1: and tools and education for the community of marginalized filmmakers.

1723
01:41:52,080 --> 01:41:54,040
Speaker 1: And now I'm doing it on my own. So if

1724
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:57,439
Speaker 1: you need a consultation to get through a work situation. UM,

1725
01:41:57,600 --> 01:41:59,959
Speaker 1: I do monthly live streams. And I have a patriot

1726
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:04,479
Speaker 1: on patreon dot com slash Derby rose d a r

1727
01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 1: b asy rose Um. And yeah, I do monthly live streams.

1728
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:12,560
Speaker 1: I talk about intersectionality at work, how to be productive

1729
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:16,920
Speaker 1: during this time that we're in, and um, all the

1730
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:20,000
Speaker 1: other things. And I do want to recommend a couple

1731
01:42:20,040 --> 01:42:25,360
Speaker 1: of movies anything by Karen Kassama, Jennifer's Body, The Invitation,

1732
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:31,639
Speaker 1: other horror thriller films, Ginger Snaps, Um although co written

1733
01:42:31,720 --> 01:42:35,400
Speaker 1: by a woman, fully directed by a man, fantastic More

1734
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:40,160
Speaker 1: Lady Bits and uh comparisons all that in horror. Our

1735
01:42:40,280 --> 01:42:43,560
Speaker 1: friend Alex recommends that we covered that movie on this

1736
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:49,759
Speaker 1: podcast almost on a daily Baby. It's a fantastic film,

1737
01:42:50,439 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm forgetting others. But there's a

1738
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:58,840
Speaker 1: lot of incredible films out there by marginalized filmmakers. So

1739
01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:03,880
Speaker 1: support the horror, support anything that we and they need,

1740
01:43:04,120 --> 01:43:09,680
Speaker 1: because why America don't care? So yes, and and uh,

1741
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:14,640
Speaker 1: listeners hired Derby for her consultation work, and subscribe to

1742
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:18,680
Speaker 1: her Patreon and give me money. We had a capitalist

1743
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 1: society still and and covid took my work away. Yes,

1744
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:26,479
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. This was really fun. I feel

1745
01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:28,800
Speaker 1: like I've been waiting to have this conversation. And I'm

1746
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:30,240
Speaker 1: a big fan of what you guys have been doing

1747
01:43:30,280 --> 01:43:33,000
Speaker 1: with Bechdel Castle. I'm so happy to see it, like

1748
01:43:33,200 --> 01:43:35,559
Speaker 1: still where it is and where it's going. It's so cool.

1749
01:43:35,920 --> 01:43:39,360
Speaker 1: Onward and upward baby, Yes, I love it. Yea, thank

1750
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:43,719
Speaker 1: you for being here here everyone, it's a future Damian future.

1751
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:49,880
Speaker 1: It is us. We wanted to address something that we

1752
01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:53,559
Speaker 1: talked about during the episode and that we got feedback

1753
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:58,519
Speaker 1: on from a few different listeners regarding our discussion that

1754
01:43:58,640 --> 01:44:03,120
Speaker 1: we had about the representation of disability in horror movies.

1755
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:06,519
Speaker 1: And yeah, we we basically at the feedback that while

1756
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:09,280
Speaker 1: that's an important discussion to have, this was not the

1757
01:44:09,400 --> 01:44:12,240
Speaker 1: appropriate movie to do it for, and so we just

1758
01:44:12,320 --> 01:44:15,479
Speaker 1: wanted to acknowledge that we have spoken with listeners and

1759
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:18,720
Speaker 1: we just we want to continue having this discussion, but

1760
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:21,519
Speaker 1: this wasn't the movie to do it for. And um,

1761
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:25,679
Speaker 1: so we apologize, and you know, as always, our lines

1762
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:29,400
Speaker 1: of communication are open to you, and um, yeah, we

1763
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:33,000
Speaker 1: will continue to have this discussion in movies that makes

1764
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:37,240
Speaker 1: more sense for us. So our apologies for um, misfiring

1765
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:40,759
Speaker 1: on when to have that discussion. Yeah, it was pointed

1766
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:44,760
Speaker 1: out that because many like species of animals who dwell

1767
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:47,720
Speaker 1: in caves are blind, it wasn't as though this movie

1768
01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:52,240
Speaker 1: was necessarily demonizing blindness. For me, I was just like, oh,

1769
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:55,040
Speaker 1: this would be maybe a good opportunity to kick start

1770
01:44:55,120 --> 01:44:59,040
Speaker 1: that conversation. But as people pointed out, this wasn't the

1771
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:02,720
Speaker 1: right movie for it. It just wasn't the right match right.

1772
01:45:03,000 --> 01:45:06,720
Speaker 1: But it's still a very important discussion for sure. So yes,

1773
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:10,679
Speaker 1: thanks for those of you who gave feedback. Like Jamie said,

1774
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:14,920
Speaker 1: we encourage that. You know, sometimes we're you know, we're

1775
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:17,519
Speaker 1: not always going to get things exactly right every time,

1776
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 1: so it's it's helpful to receive feedback from people. And

1777
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:26,560
Speaker 1: we're always wanting to learn and grow, so thank you

1778
01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:30,080
Speaker 1: for that. We love you, Love you, Future Jamie and

1779
01:45:30,160 --> 01:45:34,240
Speaker 1: future Caitlin signing off, And you can check us out

1780
01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:37,760
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe

1781
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:41,719
Speaker 1: to our Patreon aka Matreon at patreon dot com, slash

1782
01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:44,680
Speaker 1: pecktel Cast. You get to bonus episodes every month, it's

1783
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:47,040
Speaker 1: only five dollars, and you get access to the entire

1784
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:50,519
Speaker 1: back catalog. And if you're a horror fan, we've covered

1785
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:55,000
Speaker 1: a number of horror movies on that, including including Jennifer's

1786
01:45:55,160 --> 01:46:01,479
Speaker 1: including Jennifer's Body and Teeth and Get Out and The

1787
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:07,920
Speaker 1: Babba Duck Who Can't Forget The Babba Duck Who Could Forget? Yeah,

1788
01:46:08,200 --> 01:46:12,639
Speaker 1: among many many others. And you can get our merch

1789
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:16,439
Speaker 1: t public dot com slash v back til Cast we

1790
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:20,240
Speaker 1: have we have recently got masks to the store with

1791
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:22,320
Speaker 1: all of our classic Birch stuff, so you can get

1792
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:27,120
Speaker 1: those if you so choose. And yes, stay safe, help people,

1793
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 1: and we love you. And now we have an US

1794
01:46:31,040 --> 01:46:35,040
Speaker 1: sent out of the Cave Rave. Bye bye