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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe these words are actually coming out of

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Speaker 2: my mouth.

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Speaker 3: Is Alex and Murlaud convicted of the.

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Speaker 2: Double murders of his wife and son going to get

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Speaker 2: a new trial? That's basically having the winner of the

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl turn over his playbook to the other side

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Speaker 2: just before you take to the field.

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Speaker 3: Bad. Not good.

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Speaker 2: The state never wants the defendant to get a new trial.

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Speaker 2: Their entire strategy revealed. It's like the first trial was

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Speaker 2: a dry run for the defense. They find out what

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Speaker 2: they did wrong. For instance, putting Alex from Murlou, that

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Speaker 2: big liar on the stand to fidget and look around

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Speaker 2: the courtroom and blink rapidly and lie through his teeth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the jury knew he was like.

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Speaker 2: They would never put him on the stand on a

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Speaker 2: second run, and by doing that may win. Remember in

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Speaker 2: the first trial, the defense team stupidly opened the door

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Speaker 2: to proof of financial crimes. Millions of dollars the double

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Speaker 2: murderer Alex Murdock had stolen from his firm and his clients,

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Speaker 2: including clients that were forever forever immobilized in pain in wheelchairs.

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Speaker 3: He stole their money. Now the jury would never have

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Speaker 3: heard that if the defense had not brought it up

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Speaker 3: first about financial motive as soon as they did, that

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Speaker 3: the state could bring in all that damning evidence about

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Speaker 3: who Alex Mverndaug really is. Think about it, What would happen.

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Speaker 2: If there's a new trial and Merlaue did not take

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Speaker 2: the stand like the wily fox he is, and that

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Speaker 2: financial motive never came in.

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Speaker 3: What else would they do differently? That's just the tip

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Speaker 3: of the iceberg.

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Speaker 2: Of course, all that evidence is true, but on a

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Speaker 2: second trial, the jury may never hear it, and we are.

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Speaker 3: In sheching, inching.

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Speaker 2: Step by step closer to a new trial for Alex Murdoch.

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Speaker 2: I sat through the whole first one. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to do it again. I mean, I see, Grace, this

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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 2: at Crime Stories and on Serious XM one eleven. Now,

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Speaker 2: as you know, Merlac was just in court. He was

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Speaker 2: in court in the last twenty four hours trying to

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Speaker 2: get a new trial on the back of the Clerk

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Speaker 2: of Courts, Rebecca Hill, who I found to be a

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Speaker 2: reliable and trustworthy, friendly person.

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Speaker 3: Did she say something that's going to merit a new trial? God? Forbid,

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Speaker 3: We're going to find out.

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Speaker 2: But also in the last days, Murdog has been back

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Speaker 2: at the podium in the courtroom, whining and snotting and slobbering.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know what, you listen listen to, Murdog.

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Speaker 4: My wife loved you, and you are absolutely right about

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Speaker 4: everything you said, but you are dead wrong about one thing.

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Speaker 5: And I would never hurt Maggie.

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Speaker 3: And I would never hurt all.

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Speaker 5: And it is important to me that you know that

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Speaker 5: because she did love you, and I hope you know that.

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Speaker 6: I hope you know that. I mean what I said

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Speaker 6: to you today.

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Speaker 3: Does it never end with this guy?

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Speaker 2: How dare he invoke the name of his beautiful, incredible wife,

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Speaker 2: dead wife that he murdered in his effort.

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Speaker 3: To get lenient treatment.

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Speaker 2: I mean, does this guy have any shame at all?

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Speaker 2: I've got an all star panel, but first I need

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Speaker 2: a shrink, and I wouldn't need one now. This double

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Speaker 2: hot tea is not gonna pull me through this. Doctor

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Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall joining us a high profile psychoanalyst joining us

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Speaker 2: out of la She's now appearing in the new season

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Speaker 2: of Paris in Love on Peacock.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Bethany Marshall. Does this guy have no shame?

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Speaker 2: You know? He reminds me of right now, another double killer,

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Speaker 2: quadruple killer, probably our quintuple killer.

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Speaker 3: Lori Vallo caled, Mom.

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Speaker 2: She invoked I actually hate to say these words because

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to be a Christian.

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Speaker 3: She actually invoked the name of.

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Speaker 2: Jesus Christ and her dead son that she helped murder.

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Speaker 2: In her bid for a lenient sentence. She told the

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Speaker 2: judge that Christ kneeds. She hadn't done anything wrong, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna even speak on his path, and that

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Speaker 2: her son I think, didn't she say?

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Speaker 3: Jackie? He came to her in a vision and said, Mom,

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Speaker 3: you didn't do anything wrong. Oh you know what? Yes,

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Speaker 3: Jackie says, yes, I mean yes.

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Speaker 2: Came to her in her jail cell. You're right, Jackie,

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Speaker 2: you know. And now we've gotten Murdog conjuring up the

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Speaker 2: image of Maggie Murdog, his long suffering wife, talking about

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Speaker 2: her trying.

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Speaker 3: To get lenient sentencing. What is with this guy?

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Speaker 7: Inter Namcy. He's a con artist and he will con

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Speaker 7: to the end of his days. And he conned Maggie

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Speaker 7: and to think that he loved her. He conned his

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Speaker 7: law firm into thinking that he was upright and not,

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Speaker 7: you know, put putting all the money into a trust account.

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Speaker 7: Now he's trying to con the judge and trying to

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Speaker 7: conn the jury. You know, he will never stop, you know, sociopathy.

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Speaker 3: Quit using your fancy words.

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Speaker 2: Okay, maybe a trial lawyer, but I'm not a straight

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Speaker 2: What is that speak English woman?

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Speaker 3: What sociopathy?

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Speaker 7: A sociopath is a narcissist on steroids. It's a very

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Speaker 7: amplified version of that. And what we know about sociopaths

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Speaker 7: is that they are parasites. They live off other people.

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Speaker 7: So we can see that and how he, you know,

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Speaker 7: lived off the law firm, but unlawfully of.

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Speaker 2: Course, Doctor Bethony Marshall, do I made to remind you

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Speaker 2: that after prosecuting this long and being on TV for

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Speaker 2: this long, you're going to have to speak to me

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Speaker 2: in soundbites, these long, prolonged explanations. I don't even know

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Speaker 2: what you're saying. What Why is he invoking the name

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Speaker 2: of Matt his wife, Maggie.

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Speaker 7: Murdoch because he's not attached to her.

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Speaker 2: He will use anything in anybody, You know what, doctor

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Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, Let me go to Chris mcdona as well,

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Speaker 2: And no, I'm going to circle back to you because

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Speaker 2: I just had a thought and I certainly don't want

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Speaker 2: to lose one of those. Chris mcdona is joining me,

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Speaker 2: Director Cole Case Foundation, former homicide detective, about three hundred

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Speaker 2: homicides under his belt, host of YouTube channel, the interview

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Speaker 2: room where I found him, Chris, before I go back

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Speaker 2: to doctor Bethany, and I've got a special guest. Jennifer

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Speaker 2: Wood is joining me. She's been on a story from

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Speaker 2: the get Gate, joining us from Fitz News, doctor Michelle Dupree,

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Speaker 2: who is the medical examiner who is all over this case.

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Speaker 2: And Ronnie Richter, partner at Bland Richter, who's about three

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Speaker 2: inches of Alex Murdog's tailpipe. But to Chris mcdona, see

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Speaker 2: this has just started my whole day off wrong as

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Speaker 2: a homicide investigator. You could go into the office. I'm

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Speaker 2: here in the studio with my hot tea. I've got

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Speaker 2: the picture of the twins here. I'm all happy. Then

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Speaker 2: I have to hear Alex Murdock whining and s nodding

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Speaker 2: in court. Guarantee you he wasn't crying when he gunned

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Speaker 2: down Maggie and his son Paul. Right, all he was

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Speaker 2: thinking about was himself. And then you know what, my

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Speaker 2: day is just shot to H double L and I

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Speaker 2: have to hear his whiny voice. Did that happen to you?

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Speaker 2: You go in the I know your wife aka honey.

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Speaker 2: I bet she'd give you a wonderful cup of coffee

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Speaker 2: and a kiss on the ear, and off you go

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Speaker 2: to work. And then you have to read a case

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Speaker 2: file and it's just shot to H double l.

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Speaker 8: You know what, Nancy Wi our model and homicide. When

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Speaker 8: your day enstars begins and with him is everything that

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Speaker 8: he talks about. Murdoch is in the past tense. Here

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Speaker 8: do we ever notice that that she did love me?

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Speaker 9: You know?

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Speaker 8: And every time he gets caught all of the said

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Speaker 8: that becomes present. I'd be fascinated to hear what the

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Speaker 8: doc thinks about why he is always talking in the

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Speaker 8: past ten.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good point.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, Ronnie Richter, I hear your charming is a

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Speaker 2: bit Thank the Lord, because you've been in the courtroom.

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Speaker 2: Mar and I back in the courtroom trying to get

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Speaker 2: a new trial, believe it or not. Hold On, Ronnie,

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Speaker 2: I got to go back to doctor Bethany, Doctor Bethany, again,

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Speaker 2: please dummy down for me.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm just a JD. You're the shrink.

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Speaker 2: This guy will stop at nothing, just like Calt. Mom

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Speaker 2: used christ and her dad's son to try to get

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Speaker 2: a lighter sentence, and here he is using Maggie.

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Speaker 7: He thinks he's controlling everybody. He's been in control his

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Speaker 7: whole life. He's been in charge of everybody, or he

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Speaker 7: has the illusion that he's been in charge of everybody,

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Speaker 7: because he's not in charge of anybody right now. But

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Speaker 7: lying and lying that is the way to manipulate other people.

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Speaker 7: But it comes from a that's that other people won't

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Speaker 7: see his bs, that other people think he's great.

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Speaker 2: And not only see it, I can smell it. I

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Speaker 2: can smell it right here in the studio. And when

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Speaker 2: he took the stand, he like emanated the stench of BS.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Bethany. I know that your.

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Speaker 2: Parents or missionaries and you go on mission trips. Have

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Speaker 2: you ever actually smelled bullshit, cow crap in a field?

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Speaker 2: There's nothing like it.

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Speaker 9: All kinds of bush.

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Speaker 3: I'm a million, you know. It's kind of like he

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Speaker 3: reaped Walkie.

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Speaker 2: Hey, you ever seen Charlie Brown in pig Pen always

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Speaker 2: has a cloud of dust around him. There's just a

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Speaker 2: stink around Murdoch everywhere he goes, and he has beautiful outfits.

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Speaker 2: I was looking at his brother who was in court,

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Speaker 2: his son who sat right in front of me. All

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Speaker 2: the family talk about designer clothes. I mean, they looked

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Speaker 2: like they had gone straight to the cature department at Dillards.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's the only thing I can think of.

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Speaker 2: Or Sacksmith Avenue. They look awesome, and so did he,

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Speaker 2: but he's still stunk.

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Speaker 7: When the beads of sweat are on the person's forehead

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Speaker 7: and snot's coming down their nose and they're sweating, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, we've got to quit saying snot because I told

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Speaker 2: the twins not to say it, and sometimes they sneak

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Speaker 2: and listen to crime stories.

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Speaker 3: Let me go to Ronnie Richter.

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Speaker 2: Hold On, Jennifer Wood, I know you're the one that

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Speaker 2: has actually all the true facts right now, but can

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Speaker 2: I address this to Ronnie Richter Partner Bland Richter Law Firm.

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Speaker 2: They're representing the Stephen Smith family. Another team found dead

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Speaker 2: near Alex Murdau's hunting lodge.

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Speaker 3: Gloria Sadderfield's family.

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Speaker 2: She worked for the Murdog's raising the boys as a nannie,

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Speaker 2: the Pliers sisters. Ronnie, Alex Murdau back in court, could

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Speaker 2: you just explain and in a nutshell, I used to

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Speaker 2: love it to get on the elevators or at the

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Speaker 2: courthouse or in court like an opening statement where the

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Speaker 2: defense attorney, would you know, shoot off a big, long

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Speaker 2: Latin phrase to try to impress the jury.

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Speaker 3: It did the opposite.

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Speaker 2: So please speak English, simple English to me.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Alex Murdoi back in court for a new trial.

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Speaker 6: Why he wants a new trial because he contends that

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Speaker 6: the Clerk of court went into the jury room during

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Speaker 6: the deliberations and said something that changed the outcome of

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Speaker 6: the trial.

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Speaker 3: I like what you just said, simple short.

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Speaker 2: I loved it, and you're right, simply put, you are right,

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Speaker 2: Ronnie Richter. Doctor Michelle Dupree high profile forensic pathologist, medical examiner,

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Speaker 2: former detective, and she actually wrote the book Homicide Investigation

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Speaker 2: Fueld Guide and a recent book which is on Amazon

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Speaker 2: Money Mischief and Murder, The Murdoch Saga, the rest of

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Speaker 2: the story, Doctor Dupre. One of the reasons I'm so

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Speaker 2: angry right now is because, as you know, my fiance

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Speaker 2: was murdered just before a wedding.

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Speaker 3: It changed my life.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even want to live, dropped out of school

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Speaker 2: whilst down to eighty nine pounds, couldn't eat, couldn't think.

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Speaker 2: It was horrible, and I thought, oh, I know it

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Speaker 2: all now about grief and suffering. I didn't know anything

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Speaker 2: until I had the twins, and now I realize what

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Speaker 2: grief and suffering would be. One of the twins or

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Speaker 2: both of them living without one of their parents, me

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Speaker 2: losing one of them.

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Speaker 3: I don't think unless you've lived through it.

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Speaker 2: Going to a murder scene, you have been to many,

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Speaker 2: as you have been McDonough, as you have been Ronnie Richter.

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Speaker 2: The stench of blood, the dried blood, looking at the

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Speaker 2: victims lying there, staring off into space, their bodies at

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Speaker 2: weird angles, just holes, their bodies riddled with holes, gaping wounds,

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Speaker 2: blood all matted in their hair. And you know, Maggie

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Speaker 2: is such a perfect dresser all the time, as she

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Speaker 2: dressed her whole family. I can tell you that like beautifully.

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Speaker 2: They're clothes drenched in blood and then it starts to

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Speaker 2: coagulate and dry and smell.

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Speaker 3: It's terrible.

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Speaker 2: That's what's going through my mind about Maggie and Paul.

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Speaker 3: Did like that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, once you have lived through that and been

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Speaker 2: to those scenes, you never look at a murder the

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Speaker 2: same way again. Until then, it seems like a movie

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Speaker 2: or a made for TV story. But when you go

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Speaker 2: to that scene and you see these people and they're suffering,

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Speaker 2: it's terrible. And to see him get up in that

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Speaker 2: courtroom and call on the name of Maggie to get

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Speaker 2: a lighter sentence just sends me right over the edge.

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Speaker 2: Explain what a real murder as like, much less a

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Speaker 2: double murder, Doctor Dupree.

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Speaker 10: Nancy, you have done an excellent job, and you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 10: It is something that you will never forget. The sites,

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Speaker 10: the smells, the sounds even And you know one thing

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Speaker 10: that I find very interesting, and I've done a lot

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Speaker 10: of research on this, Alex keeps saying that I would

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Speaker 10: never hurt them. I have never found where he said

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Speaker 10: I did.

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Speaker 3: Not hurt them.

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Speaker 10: That just strikes me as something very odd.

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Speaker 2: Now to the latest, and it pains me to say this.

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood is joining me director research fitsnews dot com.

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Speaker 2: That's f its news dot com. Jennifer, what is and see,

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Speaker 2: I'm very torn because I befriended Becky Hill during the trial.

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Speaker 2: We spoke during breaks. I needed a phone one day

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Speaker 2: I couldn't get reception. I had to find out something

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Speaker 2: about the twins. Something was happening, and I couldn't find

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Speaker 2: my husband, I couldn't find anybody.

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Speaker 3: I had to. She let me use her phone one day.

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Speaker 2: She could not have been nicer or friendlier, and more importantly,

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Speaker 2: more professional. So I tend not to believe these allegations.

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Speaker 3: But what if she said something in.

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Speaker 2: Passing like, oh, this will be a quick verdict, meaning

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Speaker 2: you know, in jess like it's probably going to be

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Speaker 2: a long verdict. Because I remember coming out of the

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Speaker 2: courtroom right after the closing statements and jury charges, and

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Speaker 2: I called Jackie, who's sitting right here with me right now,

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Speaker 2: because I was there and she was here, and she.

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Speaker 3: Said, well, what's going to happen?

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Speaker 2: I said, oh, we ought to have a verdict about

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Speaker 2: thirty minutes, and we both started laughing because we was

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Speaker 2: not going to be in thirty minutes.

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Speaker 3: So how do I know that's not what she said?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I tend to believe her, But what in

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Speaker 2: the hay is happening, Jennifer Wood.

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Speaker 9: You know, I had the same experience with Becky Hill

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Speaker 9: during the trial and even after the trial. You know,

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Speaker 9: as a journalist, we have to reach out to the

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Speaker 9: cork of Court office frequently for court violins, and she

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Speaker 9: was always she's always been professional, she's always been helpful.

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Speaker 9: So the things that are coming out now are surprising

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Speaker 9: to me. Still in terms of what happened during the trial,

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Speaker 9: I tend to lean where you are where you know,

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Speaker 9: I can see you're seeing something in passing, not something intentional.

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Speaker 9: But it's getting you know, the water is getting muddier

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Speaker 9: the more we find out about stuff that she's done

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Speaker 9: since the trial ended.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 9: You know, So we've got the allegations of you know,

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Speaker 9: she admitted she plagiarized portions of her book.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait, tell me about that. What is she alleged

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Speaker 2: to plagiarize? And actually that's not a here and nor

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Speaker 2: there when it comes to a new trial, But what

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Speaker 2: does she allegedly plagiarize?

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Speaker 9: So there are portions of her book that appear to

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Speaker 9: be lifted from an article written during the trial by

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Speaker 9: a BBC author, So you know, you know, if you line.

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Speaker 3: Them both up.

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Speaker 9: It's very clear that you know, it was definitely pulled

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Speaker 9: from that article. She's admitted that she did that in

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Speaker 9: a rush to publish her article or her book, you know,

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Speaker 9: And there's you know, there's allegations, there's ethics investigations going on,

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Speaker 9: and SLED has two ongoing open investigations into her.

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Speaker 2: Well what but what to investigations by South Carolina Law

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Speaker 2: Enforcement Division on banking heel, Yes.

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Speaker 9: But what so the investigations are related to the ethics

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Speaker 9: the ethics violations against her, So you know, the SLED

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Speaker 9: has said, yeah, we do currently have two ongoing investigations

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Speaker 9: into Becky Hill relating to, you know, if she was

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Speaker 9: involved in you know what the wiretapping that her son

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Speaker 9: was indicted for, if she was involved in any wrongdoing.

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Speaker 6: As the clerk of court.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like it's the same thing that the defense

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Speaker 2: is bringing up. And Ronnie Rictor joining me jumping off

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Speaker 2: what Jennifer Wood just said, Guys, Alex MARNAUI back in court,

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Speaker 2: he slunk back in trying to get a new trial.

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Speaker 2: Ronnie Richter, what did her what's her son accused of?

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Speaker 6: Is accused of wire tapping and wire tapping related to

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Speaker 6: intercepting communications about the investigation into her over the jury

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Speaker 6: tampering charging.

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Speaker 3: Okay, hold on, let me go, this is straight.

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Speaker 2: Our number one concern is did Becky Hill, the clerk

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Speaker 2: of Courts, who I found to be a nice person

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Speaker 2: and professional, which is important as it relates to this claim,

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Speaker 2: did she say or do anything to prejudice this jury

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Speaker 2: into a guilty verdict? Now she's being investigated about did

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Speaker 2: she lift sentences from some other article and put them

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Speaker 2: in her book in her haste to publish? That's one thing.

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Speaker 2: And did her son wiretap? When you say wiretap, how

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Speaker 2: did else? How did he allegedly wear tap?

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Speaker 6: I don't know the mechanism, but in South Carolina, you

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Speaker 6: can record a conversation if you're a party two. Apparently

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Speaker 6: he recorded a conversation that he was not a party two.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace Jennifer.

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Speaker 2: Would uh you're hearing Ronnie rich her partner at Bland

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Speaker 2: Richter Jennifer. Could it be something as simple and I'm

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Speaker 2: certainly not defending any wrongdoing, but I'm trying to understand

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Speaker 2: what the facts are that he recorded a phone conversation

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Speaker 2: with his phone. Could it be that simple. Is South

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Speaker 2: Carolina two party consent state party?

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Speaker 9: I believe in Ryan, correct me if I'm wrong. Is

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Speaker 9: South Carolina is a one party consent state?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 9: I do not believe that he was a party to

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Speaker 9: the phone call that he recorded.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this is now, did he allegedly set up

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Speaker 2: some equipment or was he in the room recording it?

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Speaker 2: Or are you did he put some device on someone's phone?

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Speaker 2: How is it alleged he recorded somebody else's phone call?

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Speaker 2: And this was recording a phone call about the investigation

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Speaker 2: into his own mother. How is it alleged he did

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Speaker 2: that the mechanism.

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Speaker 9: You know, they did not give did not give details,

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Speaker 9: or the Fourteenth Circuit ulthor did not give details in

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Speaker 9: their indictments. So that's all just what we're hearing from

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Speaker 9: our sources.

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Speaker 2: So it could be anything from planning a bug in

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Speaker 2: somebody's room, to be in the room when a call

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Speaker 2: was going on and recording it.

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Speaker 3: All right, So we don't know what it is yet. Now,

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Speaker 3: who would.

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Speaker 2: Not be hard pressed to record a conversation about someone

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Speaker 2: investigating your mother? Okay, I'm going to take the fifth

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Speaker 2: on that because I would do a lot to help

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Speaker 2: my mother said, that's a whole other can of worms.

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Speaker 2: And I can't believe Ronnie Richter you even brought that up.

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Speaker 2: Oh sorry, it was Lee. So let's get back to

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Speaker 2: Alex Murnock, the double killer, and not backy you'lls son

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Speaker 2: recording a conversation about somebody investigating his mother. Let's get

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Speaker 2: down to Alex Murdoch, who needs to stay behind bars.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Sidney's Sumner Crime online.

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Speaker 11: Alex Murdall's hearings will be held in open court. Court

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Speaker 11: controlled television cameras will be allowed, but they cannot focus

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Speaker 11: on the faces of testifying jurs The jurors will be

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Speaker 11: referred to by their juror numbers, not their names. The

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Speaker 11: hearing will determine whether Murdoll will be granted a new

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Speaker 11: murder trial after his attorneys alleged jury tampering by Culton

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Speaker 11: County Clerk of Court Rebecca Becky Hill. During a status hearing,

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Speaker 11: Murdall's attorneys proposed a list of witnesses who should testify

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Speaker 11: during the trial, including each of the jurors and Couleton

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Speaker 11: County Clerk of Court Becky Hill. Murdall's attorneys also listed

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Speaker 11: state prosecutor Creighton Waters and Judge Clifton Newman.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I only hope they call Creighton Waters to the stand.

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Speaker 2: That is the chief prosecutor in the Alex Murdie case.

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Speaker 2: Go on, put him up on the stand, because in

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Speaker 2: the state can cross examine their own colleague. That will

403
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Speaker 2: be incredible. I remember in an Arson murder case, the

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Speaker 2: defense was stupid enough to call one of my Arson investigators.

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Speaker 2: And you're gonna love this, Ronnie Rick Or you're a

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Speaker 2: trial lawyer. They called him at about four o'clock in

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Speaker 2: the afternoon. You know what that means, right before the

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Speaker 2: jury went home for the weekend. I had my own

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Speaker 2: investigator on cross examination. I practically danced across the courtroom.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, isn't it true?

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Speaker 3: You think he did it?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I just said whatever the truth was, and

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Speaker 3: we go that's right, that is right. It was a

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Speaker 3: field day.

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Speaker 2: So I only hope, hope that they actually put Creighton

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Speaker 2: Water's the lead investigator, on the stand. And let me

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Speaker 2: tell you something else, Ryne ricktor that happened at crime

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Speaker 2: con Creighton Waters.

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Speaker 3: Was there and I went up to him. Nobody Wilse

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Speaker 3: was around.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, Waters, please tell me there's not going to

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Speaker 2: be any trial because of Becky Hill. I just don't

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Speaker 2: believe that she said any of these things, or if

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Speaker 2: she did that she didn't say them in jest, and

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Speaker 2: if she did say them in jest, that actually made

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Speaker 2: the jury come back with a guilty verdict. He wouldn't

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Speaker 2: say a word. He just gave kind of like a

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Speaker 2: grin and kind of sidled off. He wouldn't tell me

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Speaker 2: a thing, as he shouldn't, but he's a pretty wily lawyer.

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Speaker 2: I only hope they put Creton Waters on the stand.

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Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen. Okay, what else do we know?

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to the defense lawyer. Now this has

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Speaker 2: just gone down in the last twenty four hours in court.

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Speaker 2: Let's hear what they're up to. Take a lesson as

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Speaker 2: the fox shows its hand.

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Speaker 3: Two thirteen, we.

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Speaker 12: Have environment promotion for Utrum submitted affidavits of one deliberating

439
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 12: juror one alternate excuse me, and then and then another

440
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 12: a data of a witness to an interview of an alternant,

441
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 12: where and all three statements are consistent and in that

442
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 12: they heard miss Hill the Clerk of court prior to

443
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 12: deliberations and frankly, before the defense put on their case,

444
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 12: Miss Hill instructive, do not be fooled by the defense.

445
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 12: That's what the swarm statements say. And secondly, before mister

446
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 12: Murdas took the stand, Miss Hill device one deliberating juror

447
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 12: and two oftenans at least watches demeanor, which is an

448
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 12: indication of you know, keep going to lot and and

449
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 12: so then the question be comes factually, did those contacts happen?

450
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 10: Uh?

451
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 2: Oh, he's interpreting what he says. He'll said, how do

452
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: I know a juror didn't say, you think he's telling

453
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: the truth. And she said, well, you watch, you decide,

454
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 2: you watch him on the stand, How do I know

455
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: that's not what happened. Now, I want you to hear

456
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: what Creighton Waters says back.

457
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 3: This just went down in court. Listen.

458
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 13: We made the argument that the affidavits, on their face,

459
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 13: the only deliberating juror indicated. That's six point thirty in

460
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 13: that affidavit only said that she voted guilty. She had questions,

461
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 13: but voted guilty because she felt pressured by other jurors.

462
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 13: And of course, the law is crystal clear in multiple

463
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 13: cases that.

464
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 3: That sort of internal debate.

465
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: It's actually on Will six oh six B that.

466
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 13: That's not any sort of misconna or anything that is

467
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 13: an appropriate venue or mechanism in order to attack the verding.

468
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 13: So for that reason we've argued that they're showing in

469
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 13: their meation for a new trial is insufficient based on

470
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 13: in the case law, we're evident for hearing because there

471
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 13: is on his face, you know, a sufficient.

472
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: Allegation of prejudice, Okay, decide for that, Ronnie.

473
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 6: Richter, Well, that means you know, in every jury trial, Nancy,

474
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 6: you know this as well as anybody, the only thing

475
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 6: the jury agrees on is that they want to go home.

476
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 6: And so every jury.

477
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: Or that they want to go to launch they agree

478
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 2: on that, then they fight about what they're going to

479
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: have to eight go ahead.

480
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 6: So for a juror to say that they render their

481
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 6: verdict because they felt pressured, that is the jury process.

482
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 6: So that has nothing to do with the motion for

483
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 6: a new trial. And these extra judicial statements by the

484
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,479
Speaker 6: clerk of court. Again, they have to prove first they

485
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 6: were said, and one or more jurors have to say

486
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 6: that because Becky said that thing, I change my vote.

487
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 6: And that's a hard stretch to think someone's going to

488
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 6: actually say that under oath.

489
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: You know, when I said to you, Chris McDonnel, you

490
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: probably live through this as many people on on the panel.

491
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: And when Richter says the.

492
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 2: Only thing they really agree on is they want to

493
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: go home, and I said, and they also agree they

494
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: want to go to lunch. That would be like the

495
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: bailiff's number one concern is getting the jury to lunch.

496
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: You know, Chris McDonald you've lived through a lot of

497
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: homicide trials. Every Sunday after church we go out for

498
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: lunch and somewhere and it never fails. All four of

499
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: us want to go somewhere different. It never fails, and

500
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 2: we of course have a discussion about where we're going.

501
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: Of course the jury.

502
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: Is going to argue about where they go to lunch,

503
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: but we all agree that we want to go. So

504
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 2: to have a juror say I voted guilty, I felt

505
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: pressured by the jury of the jewors at some point,

506
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean she would not have voted guilty anyway.

507
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: So all this discussion about the jurors disagreeing and feeling

508
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: pressure that happens in every jury trial.

509
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: Have you had that experience Chris.

510
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 8: Absolutely, Nancy. I mean the interesting part of the you know,

511
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 8: this particular situation that everybody finds himself watching here is

512
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 8: I had a case where I actually had three defendants

513
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 8: and three separate juries in the same courtroom. They would

514
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 8: not separate, and it was one of the first in California.

515
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 8: Long story short, I had a juror staying I was

516
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 8: smiling too much during the proceedings, and.

517
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 6: You know, they've bore dire the entire all forty.

518
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 8: Five jurors, and one of them, in the middle of it,

519
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 8: turns and he goes, well, the technic donna smiling doesn't

520
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 8: bother me. However, that guy and he points to the defendant,

521
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 8: and all had broke loose, right, And it was like

522
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 8: people make decisions quickly based upon emotion. And maybe she

523
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 8: was hungry, but it doesn't mean to your point, Nancy,

524
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 8: that that influenced her decisions.

525
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: So let me understand this, Ronnie Richter.

526
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 3: The defense has to show not.

527
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: Only are these accusations against Becky Hill true, but also

528
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: they must prove that it prejudiced the jurors correct, And.

529
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 6: That was the big takeaway from yesterday.

530
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: We also heard the judge laid down the law. Take

531
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: a listen to this.

532
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 14: Former South Carolina Chief Justice Gene Tole took control of

533
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 14: her South Carolina courtroom, making several rulings affecting Alec Murda's

534
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 14: bid for a new murder trial. His attorneys say jury

535
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 14: tampering by Colladen County Clerk of Court Becky Hill impacted

536
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 14: the original trials outcome and that, according to Toll, will

537
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 14: be the defense's burden to prove. The attorneys argue the

538
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 14: law only required them to prove improper contact with jurors

539
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 14: that occurred. According to Toll, she will rule that quote

540
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 14: prejudice must be proved, not presumed. Toll says the stand

541
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 14: she will take on the specific evidence of what was said,

542
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 14: when it was said, and how it impacted jury lies

543
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 14: with the defense, not an assumption on Becky Hill's credibility.

544
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace.

545
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood joining us director of Research fitsnews dot Com.

546
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 3: Jennifer, thank you for being with us.

547
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: It's really hard for me to believe anything the defendant

548
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: says or the defense says, because remember right after Alexei

549
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: Murdog claimed he had been attacked on a real road,

550
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 2: shot in the head and one of the lawyers came

551
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: out and said, Oh, he's got a brain injury, blah

552
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: blah blah. He came into court like a day or

553
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: two later with a band aid, A BANDI yeah, one

554
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: band aid. I'm like, is that the brain injury?

555
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? So how can I believe anything that they say?

556
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 14: You're right?

557
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 9: It's you know, kind of like the boy who Cried Wolf?

558
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 9: And with their case, you know, is what they're saying true?

559
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 9: And do they have do they have what needed to

560
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 9: back it up? And I think she's just this toll

561
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 9: really closed the door on a lot of it because

562
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 9: she's really focusing on the law, which I think is fabulous.

563
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 9: You know, if you know she's she's not she said,

564
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 9: she's not there to hear a criminal trial against Becky Hill.

565
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 9: She is there to hear whether the jurors who deliberated

566
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 9: were influenced and if that influence can be proved that

567
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 9: it changed their verdict. So, I mean, they tend to

568
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 9: throw a lot of noise, Like I said, they muddy

569
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 9: the waters by, you know, throwing all of these different

570
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 9: allegations about Becky Hill.

571
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 3: But really what she.

572
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 9: Just as told it was boil it down to the

573
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 9: facts that our needs to determine if he should receive

574
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 9: a new trial.

575
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: Guys, I want you to hear the judge herself, just

576
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: as Jane told in our cut two nineteen, the question of.

577
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 10: What was.

578
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 15: Empower contacts made them and what in the fact that

579
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 15: they've heard, I am saying.

580
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 16: That you are on the fence side, have views about what.

581
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 15: Further should be asked the jewels on two loves uh

582
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 15: one as a predative to what you want to do

583
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 15: her herself and.

584
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: Mamma and her and two.

585
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 15: As a means of further a time. The credibility of

586
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 15: the clerk in her testament, there's a whole lot.

587
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: More of it.

588
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 16: As pr Qutley is indicated, you like.

589
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 3: To explore.

590
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 10: That out.

591
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 16: Reguard is totally extraneous to the inquiry that we've maintained

592
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 16: that I'm not gonna allow those questions to be asked

593
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 16: by way of proper and then to have the clerk

594
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 16: answer those questions and have that a the proper Although

595
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 16: I consider the relevant questions, you're not gonna analycation that

596
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 16: way if I exclude.

597
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 15: The certain questions to being asked, and the proper will

598
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 15: be whatever in writing is chosen to be offered in

599
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 15: that reguard. But I will mind end up hearing the

600
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 15: full side uh hearing in which every question or desire

601
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 15: is asked and even required to be answered.

602
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 2: Wow, that is one smart judge to you, Ronnie Richter,

603
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: high profile lawyer who has deep and many can as

604
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: to the murder case, and regular people talk.

605
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 3: What did the judge just say?

606
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 6: She said, this is going to be a very skinny

607
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 6: affair that I know you want to talk about. You know,

608
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 6: Dick and Jim, you want to talk.

609
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 3: About, Hey, are the defense lawyers.

610
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 6: The defense players. You want to talk about why Becky

611
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 6: Hill did what she did, and some of these extraneous matters.

612
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 6: But we're going to limit this to a couple of

613
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 6: essential questions. What did she say? Was it improper? And

614
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 6: did it change the outcome of the trial? That's it.

615
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 6: Don't want to hear anything else.

616
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: And also it sounds like the ju just saying proper.

617
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 2: The judge is saying profer, which means you give the

618
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: judge what you're intending to ask. You give the judge

619
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: a sneak preview of what you're intending to do before

620
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: you do it in open court. So sounds to me,

621
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: Ronnie like she's trying to head off a lot of

622
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 2: cross examination type questions where the attorney makes a speech

623
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: and then at the inputs a question mark at it

624
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: to trash Becky Hill.

625
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 6: You're one hundred percent right. There would be no theator here.

626
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 6: She's asked the attorneys to literally prepare the questions that

627
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 6: they want to have asked. She will consider those questions,

628
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 6: and she will ask those questions. I don't even think

629
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 6: she's going to afford an opportunity for cross examination.

630
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see. I have a saying I used quite

631
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: a bit as a trial lawyer, and still do. Once

632
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: the camel's nose is in the tent, his tail will

633
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: surely follow. In other words, if she lets the defense

634
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: go on a rampage down a winding pig path, you

635
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: know what a pig path.

636
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 6: Is, right, Richter, I'm from South Carolina, Nancy, Yes, yes,

637
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 6: so of course you do.

638
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 2: A pig path to those of you that don't know,

639
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: means you're going along a path with a herd of

640
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: pigs and they take off, and they take a pig path,

641
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: which means Willy Neely running. He can't catch him. In fact,

642
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, you know, Ronnie I told

643
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: you my dad worked for Norfolk Southern Railroad for forty

644
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 2: plus years. He also had a pig farm. In other words,

645
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: raised pigs with my mother's brother, who thought it was

646
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: a great idea.

647
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 3: It was awful.

648
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 17: After he would get from work on the railroad all day,

649
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 17: crazy hours, you'd have to chase pigs on your pig path,

650
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 17: and you know, you grab it.

651
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: And then take off. You can hold on to a

652
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: pig like a greased pig. That's what we don't want

653
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: the defense to do in this case, or anybody to

654
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 2: run off down a pig path like a greased pig

655
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: and you can't catch it and you lose control of

656
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: the courtroom. This judge is not gonna let that happen.

657
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: So Jennifer Wood again, what's next and what is the

658
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: defense going to try to do?

659
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:56,479
Speaker 3: Number One?

660
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: Are they going to bring on the alternate jurors, including

661
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: the egg lady who made a big production of going

662
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: back into the jury deliberation room after she was relieved

663
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 2: of her position to get the dozen eggs she brought

664
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: the jurors to eight. We're not hearing from them, are we.

665
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 10: No?

666
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 9: Chief Justice Toll really limited the scope of the evidentiary

667
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 9: hearing which is scheduled January twenty ninth, to just the

668
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 9: jurors that deliberated, and she said she wants to hear

669
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 9: from all twelve of them. So, you know, I do

670
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 9: think that Dickr Putlin and Jim Griffin, who represent Alex Murdoch,

671
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 9: are going to try to get as you know, as

672
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 9: much of the evidence as a can into that hearing

673
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 9: regarding that stuff. But it sounded to me like she

674
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 9: doesn't want to hear that.

675
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 3: It doesn't the.

676
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 9: Alternate jurors or the jurors that did not deliberate, are

677
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 9: not critical to what she's hearing.

678
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 2: You know, doctor Bethy Marshall, A big danger in court

679
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: is underestimating your opponent. We all know Alex Murdaga is

680
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 2: a big, fat liar, but remember he fooled a lot.

681
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 3: Of people for a really long time.

682
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: These lawyers who I loved to skewer are actually very

683
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: very good lawyers, Griffin and Harputlian. They're extremely crafty, they're clever,

684
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 2: they're wily. They've won a lot of cases. And while

685
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: I always would go to the courtroom wearing the mantle

686
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 2: of the right side, knowing that the defendant was guilty

687
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: and was evil and needed to go to jail. If

688
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: you underestimate what the defense is doing here, you're going

689
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: to be up the creek without a paddle.

690
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 18: You know, Nancy, you read my mind, because I was thinking,

691
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 18: these lawyers lie as prolifically as their client does, and

692
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 18: I was thinking, birds of the feather flock together? Are

693
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 18: is there some influence back and forth? Lean murdochs lying

694
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 18: and they're lying.

695
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 19: And actually the sophistication and the slickness of it in

696
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 19: that they really know what to say to grab people's hearts,

697
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 19: to influence them, and as I said earlier, to manipulate them,

698
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 19: because we can all be manipulated, Nancy, all of us.

699
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 19: And it always starts slowly.

700
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 18: It starts with one sentence, one agreement, one thing, we

701
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 18: capitulate too with another person, and pretty soon we're ensnared.

702
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 19: And you know, unfortunately the judge is used to this,

703
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 19: so she's not going to be ensnared. But that's not

704
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 19: true of the normal everyday citizen who is not used

705
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 19: to being light that like you so much, You're.

706
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: Right, this judge is seen at all.

707
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: But can this judge be be amboozled? From what I

708
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 2: know about the judge, I would have to say no,

709
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle Dupray, I don't want to.

710
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: Forget what this is really all about.

711
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 2: It's not about heartpoot Lean or Griffin, or Creighton Waters

712
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: or even Alex Murdoch. This is about Maggie, the mother

713
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: of two, who would put up with the Lord only

714
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: knows what for years being lured to that hunting lodge

715
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 2: and her at seeing her son gunned down. I as

716
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 2: you'd think of anything that could hurt me more than

717
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 2: to see anything, God forbid it please happen.

718
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: To my children and one of my children. And as

719
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 3: she raced I believe toward Paul, she gets gunned down.

720
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 3: That's what this is about.

721
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: If you could just describe, doctor Dupree, as you know

722
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 2: better than any of us today, what happened to Paul

723
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: and Maggie.

724
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 10: Absolutely Nancy, and it is such a tragedy. The scene

725
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 10: indicates that she was in fact running toward Paul when

726
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 10: she herself was shot, and Paul, we believe, was shot first.

727
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 10: Who was shot with a shotgun, which is a devastating injury.

728
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 10: I mean it literally just devastates the person. Maggie was

729
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 10: shot several times with her rifle again a devastating injury,

730
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 10: running when she hears the shot, running towards her son,

731
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 10: not knowing what's happening, and then both of them apparently

732
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 10: realizing that the person that is doing this is again

733
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 10: someone that is a member of their family, their husband,

734
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 10: their father. I cannot imagine.

735
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood, director research Fitznews dot Com, who is on

736
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,479
Speaker 2: this case, has been on it since day one.

737
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 3: Jennifer, what's going to happen next?

738
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 9: So we're going into that Evidential're here in the twenty

739
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 9: ninth of January. It is scheduled to be held three days.

740
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 3: She just a tool said that she will.

741
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 9: Be hearing from the jurors the first day, and we

742
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 9: expect to also hear from Becca Rebecca Hill regarding her

743
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 9: point of view. It's nobody knows what Becky Hill is

744
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 9: going to say, So that's kind of a wild card.

745
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 9: You know, she's going to have to get on the

746
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 9: stand and give her point of view. Well, she's, you know,

747
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 9: under an active flood investigation.

748
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 3: So rictor does she have a lawyer, Yeah, she has

749
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: a lawyer. You know who the lawyer is.

750
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 6: She's got a couple, she got will Lewis and Justin Bamberg.

751
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 6: Who's state representative out of Bamberg oddly enough.

752
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: Well, they may be stay representative. But you know what

753
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 2: I think about politicians. Are they good trial lawyers. That's

754
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 2: all I care about.

755
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 6: He was a good trial lawyer before he was a politician.

756
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 6: But yeah, he's good. We'll see, we'll see if she

757
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 6: takes success.

758
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 3: Oh Lord in heaven, yep, okay, we will see. We

759
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 3: wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, sat