WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 71 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.359 you know. This is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.399 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.240 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:15.760 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:17.720 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.919 there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:44.720 can make your own decisions. Around eight am Wednesday, janu 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.319 a forest defender who went by Torte Guita sent out 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:54.720 a text message that read morning raid. Please help. Just 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.560 minutes prior, a multi agency coalition of heavily armed law 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.480 enforcement officers led by the Georgia State Patrol began a 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:07.399 raid on the Wollanee Forest in southeast Atlanta. Encampments have 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:11.759 sprung up throughout the forest since November one in protest 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.800 and militant opposition to a proposed militarized police training facility 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.640 with a mock city to practice combating civil unrest in 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:25.919 the wake of the corporate funded Atlanta Police Foundation seeks 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.840 to control over three hundred acres of the Willannee or 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.760 South River Forest to construct this sprawling state of the 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:37.160 art police compound with a starting budget of ninety million 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.959 dollars for its first phase of construction. The police raid 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.880 on January eighth started off pretty similar to previous raids 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.280 that had taken place in the prior months, but for 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.080 the Georgia State Patrol, seemingly it was their first time 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.840 leading such a raid in the woods. Police shut down 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.160 the parking lot at Entrenchment Creek Park and near by 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.160 streets before entering the tree line with guns drawn. Within 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.800 the first hour, swat teams arrested two people in the 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:11.760 woods and destroyed multiple tents, and then, shortly after nine am, 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.720 forest defenders in the woods reported hearing a rapid sequence 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.320 of about a dozen gun shots. Quickly, news spread that 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.600 Georgia State Patrol officers shot and killed a protester in 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:27.359 the woods who was defending the forest, and that a 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.680 state trooper was being sent to Grady Hospital with a 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.960 bullet wound. After the gunshots rang in the air, police 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.240 were quick to publicize a palatable sequence of events depicting 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.760 an exchange of gunfire. Rather predictably, the police claimed that 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.560 the deceased force defender had surprised the armored swat team 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.840 and fired First, this is Peter, a force defender I 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.880 talked with a few days after the shooting, so luckily 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.520 I was in the woods on that day. Um, just 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.440 in a whim, I decided to stand mum. The day 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.160 of the shooting was really jarring. Trying to figure out 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.360 who was safe and who was unaccounted for was like 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.200 the main thing on my mind for most of the day, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.880 and by the afternoon I realized that it was probably 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.680 tour The last message that they sent was at eight 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.400 am saying morning raid, please help um, and the shooting 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.840 was at nine am. It was a weird space to 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.480 be in of knowing that it was likely toward a 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.920 GIDA that had died, but not being able to grieve 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:30.080 yet because not really having confirmation. The only eyewitnesses were 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.760 the police, and then all the other witnesses just like 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:37.320 heard noises. In contradiction to the exchange of gunfire narrative, 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.400 activists on the ground reported hearing a single burst of 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.240 gunfire and suspected that the injured trooper was hit by 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:49.400 friendly fire and cautioned against taking police narrative as fact. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.120 Due to cops track record of lying about police killings 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.720 and covering for fellow officers. Here's Sam from the Atlanta 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.240 Community Press Collective for more information about the sequence of 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.480 events that day. We know from speaking to people who 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:11.160 were in the area on that day that p D 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.360 m HM. The various police agencies that were involved in 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:20.000 the raid began the operation around maybe seven thirty or eight. 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:26.880 Records show that two people were arrested maybe thirty to 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.120 forty minutes before tour It was shot. Tour It was 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:38.279 shot around nine am. Um. Some of our are sources 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.280 that were in the woods at the time say they 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.280 only heard like one I guess you could call it 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:51.280 a volley of gunfire followed by a large boom. You 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.719 can speculate a lot about those statements, but they were 0:04:55.520 --> 0:05:01.320 pretty independent. They were almost all identical, independent of each other. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:07.480 We know that. Sorry, it's it's hard to talk about. Um. Yeah. 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.400 It wasn't until late into the night that people in 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:15.040 the movement were able to confirm that the person killed 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:19.400 by the Georgia State Patrol was Manual Tehran, also known 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:23.520 by their forest name Tortu Ghita, which means little turtle. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:29.400 Torto Guita, was a young Queer afro Venezuelan twenty year 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.560 old forest defender, described by friends and loved ones as 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:41.320 your friendly neighborhood anarchist as a kind, earnest, fierce, welcoming, funny, 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:45.920 exceedingly helpful and brave person. They were an artist in 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.600 urban farmer, a trained street medic, and heavily involved in 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:54.240 mutual aid all across the South. This is it could 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.960 happen here. I'm Garrison Davis or just Gare And after 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.279 checking in with friends and various people I know in 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.360 the movement, I made my way down to Atlanta late 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.279 Wednesday night. I've been reporting on and writing about the 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.719 Defend the Forest and Stop Cop City movement since summer 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.360 last year. In two I put it around six hours 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:22.120 of audio related to the forest encampments, protests, organizing weeks 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.240 of action, and the forgotten history of the prison farm 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.680 that operated on the land. Cops City is slated to 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:32.800 be built on, but these new episodes serve as a 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.560 follow up to the two part series from last May 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:40.039 titled on the Ground at Defend the Atlanta Forest, but 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.080 the various updates put out since then will certainly help 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.000 fill in the gaps. This four part series will feature 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.040 interviews with forest defenders, audio clips from on the ground 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.200 in Atlanta and accounts on what's changed the past few months. 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.400 Episode one, what You're listening to right now will largely 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.760 cover the events around the shooting itself. Episode two we'll 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.560 get into who Tortuguita was as a person and the 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:12.440 stories about them from friends and comrades. Episode three and 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.640 four will cover protests in the wake of the police killing, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.840 state repression, and how the movement might evolve going forward 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.440 due to increasing state repression. We will be using a 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.800 mix of voice distortion and re dubbed voice replacement for 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.680 some of the interviews and discussions I had with forest 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:35.000 defenders on the ground in Atlanta. Speaking of the next 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.640 forest defender you're going to hear from is Cricket talking 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.800 about their experiences the day of the shooting. God, I mean, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.560 I can only obviously only speak for myself. Um, for me, 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.560 it was terrifying. We we had obviously already lived through 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.320 the raid in December, but when we heard someone had 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.800 been shot and killed, it was it was terrifying, and 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.960 in part because of the complete lack of information. Uh, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:07:59.680 we had so few details for so long, and it 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.880 wasn't at least for me, it wasn't until the following 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.280 day that I found out that it was towards um 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.520 and it. It was just devastating. I mean, there's not 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.280 really words for it. It was like it felt like 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.120 the world stopped and then kept going. But it shouldn't 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.200 have like it felt like it should have stayed stopped 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.320 like it. It shouldn't have kept turning. After the deadly 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.240 shooting in the morning, the police continued their multi agency 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.920 rate of the Wolani forest in a pretty regular fashion, 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.120 with cops reportedly firing pepperballs at people up in tree 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.679 houses and making arrests throughout the day, into the night, 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.880 and even the next morning. I think a total of 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:45.559 seven folks were arrested in the forest that day. It 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.920 might have been six. Six arrested on the day toward died, 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:55.120 and then one person remained the last tree center. The 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:59.120 last person arrested in the deadly police raid was up 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.000 in the trees or night and surrounded by police for 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:06.200 about twenty hours straight. All seven people arrested in the 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:11.680 forest were charged with criminal trespassing and domestic terrorism. There 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:15.160 was one person who remained in a tresa because we 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.040 had some communication with them throughout the night. They were 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.760 just like perched in their climbing reg in a tree 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:27.960 um for about twelve hours until a little after sunrise 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:34.320 when de cab County SWAT moved in and took them 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.280 into custody. I guess you could say, as they were 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.800 trying to repel back up the tree. They had been 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.880 and the tree pretty much the whole day and then 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.040 all night. Um they ran out of food and water, 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.640 I think sometime after nightfall, and then after dark they 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.280 were turning their phone on and off to conserve battery, 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.160 so it was a little sporadic. They were able to 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.520 send us some picture yors of two cops standing in 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.880 the platform of like a a tru acuity used to 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.960 work on a telephone pole and uh they both had 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.360 like the SWAT operator helmets on, and one of them 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.160 had a long gun. And then later on in the evening, 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.080 four or five police cars just like backed up to 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.040 the tree and just like surrounded the tree and showing 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.520 their spotlights up in the tree. And they didn't the 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.280 cops didn't that were there over night. They didn't say anything. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.040 They were just waiting. They were just waiting for the 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.200 sun to come up so so SWAT could move in 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.160 the night of the shooting. Before we even knew who 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.440 was killed, there was a small vigil turned to march 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:46.280 in the Little Five Points neighborhood of Atlanta. The first 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.800 twenty four hours after the shooting were extremely hectic, as 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.160 many people were not even sure who the police had killed. Obviously, 0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:00.679 the first thing on everyone's mind was who who was killed, 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:06.840 and by late Wednesday night, some folks that help us 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.280 source our reporting UM came to us saying that they 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.600 believed it was this person UM that they believed it 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.720 was toward a lot of people's friend was just murdered 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:22.440 by the police, and folks wanted to get ahead of 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.760 the police narrative, and as a community press collective, of course, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.120 we wanted to support the community in that UM, so 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:36.800 we just immediately offered like two post whatever UM towards 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.280 family and I believe their their partner consented to UM 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.640 that that was the primary thing. Once the community had 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.160 kind of definitive, definitively identified that it was tour, it 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:54.280 was obtaining consent from from those closest to tourt to 0:11:54.600 --> 0:12:01.360 publish their name, any pictures, details, and we wanted to 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.760 give people a way to help tell everyone who was 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:07.800 about to be paying a lot of attention to the 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.560 story who Tour actually was and not who the police 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:17.440 would like people to think toward was. State agencies were 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.760 swift in their attempts to control the narrative surrounding the 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.920 deadly raid. Hours after the killing, the Georgia Bureau of 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.160 Investigation set up a press conference as the raid was 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:33.959 very much still ongoing. First, a gb I spokesperson explained 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:38.160 the purpose of the raid. The operations goal is to 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.560 secure the site of the future City of Atlanta Public 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:46.480 Safety Training Center. Next, gb I Director Mike Register gave 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.920 his account of the day's events so far as you 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:54.040 are aware. A few weeks ago, several individuals were arrested 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.760 for domestic terrorism in the area around the future site 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.520 of the public scifety training facility. This morning, the g 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:06.000 b I, with other local state law enforcement agencies such 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.840 as the CABPD, Atlanta p D, the Georgia State Patrol, 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.040 and Georgia d n R, conducted a planned clearing operation 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.280 to remove them individuals who were illegally occupying the area. 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.240 At approximately nine o'clock this morning, as law enforcement was 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.800 moving through various sectors of the property, an individual, without warning, 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:31.720 shot a Georgia State Patrol trooper. Other law enforcement personnel 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.280 returned fire and self defense and evacuated the trooper to 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:39.160 a safe area. The individual who fired upon law enforcement 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.520 and shot the trooper was killed in the exchange of gunfire. 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.920 The gb I is working the officer involved shooting and 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:50.160 the investigation is still active and fluid. The circumstances was 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:56.520 an individual confronted law enforcement, uh, and I don't think 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.679 that he was seen until he fired. I'm not sure right. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.600 Later that day, a gb I statement claimed that officers 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.040 located tour to inside a tent in the woods and 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.120 that they did not comply with verbal commands from law 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.920 enforcement officers. The day after the shooting, the Georgia Bureau 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.000 of Investigation also announced that there is no body cam 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.000 footage of the incident. They also claimed that twenty five 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:26.680 campsites were located and removed Wednesday and that quote mortar 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:31.640 style fireworks, edged weapons, pelleant rifles, gas masks, and a 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:37.080 blowtorch were recovered unquote, after people pointed out that the 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.760 list of recovered items was absent any firearms. The next day, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.720 the gb I released a photo of a nine millimeter 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.920 handgun allegedly found at the scene of the shooting. It 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.800 was the only firearm police claim they found in their 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.320 extensive sweep of the forest. The g b I has 0:14:55.360 --> 0:15:01.240 been as the independent agency investigating all of this has 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.360 changed their story a little bit, which it was a 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.880 breaking news story. I think they first went before the 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.560 cameras at noon when it happened at nine am, not 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.920 to grant the police segative leafy at all because buck 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.760 hum But it was a rapidly evolving situation, as they say. 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:25.040 That said, the story changed kind of dramatically over the 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:29.520 first few days. They released an initial list of items 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.200 that had recovered, but it didn't mention a gun. And 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:38.120 then when the community kind of said, hey, he said 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.720 torch shot this this trooper, where's the gun? Then a 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.800 gun was produced. Then when people still didn't believe it, 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.560 the g b I said that they had a bill 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.840 of sale for the gun. The g b I and 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.760 Georgia State Patrol have also come out and said that 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.720 they won't release the identity of the trooper for concerns 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.640 about their safety. Results from an independent autopsy were released 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.720 on February third. It found thirteen gun shot wounds. Attached 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.080 to the report was a statement from Tortuguita's family, of 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.440 which I will read quote. The g b I has 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.880 claimed that Many shot an officer and that the bullet 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.680 matches the gun possessed by Many, but even if that 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.400 is true, there are still many unanswered questions. The g 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:29.440 b I has selectively released information about Manny's death, says 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:34.080 civil rights attorney Jeff Philipovits. They claim many failed to 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.280 follow orders. What orders. The g b I has not 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.360 talked about the fact that Many faced a firing squad 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.200 when those shots were fired, or who fired them. While 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.360 the g b I has publicly stated there's no body 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.880 camera footage of the shooting, it has not stated whether 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.760 there is any audio or other video from other sources, 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.720 such as aerial drones or helicopters that were used during 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.280 the time of the incident. The family has contacted the 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.400 gb I and specifically requested that released whatever audio and 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.760 video exists of the incident, or any other information that 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.400 would shed light on what happened. Any evidence, even if 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.080 it's only an audio recording, will help the family piece 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.280 together what happened on the morning of January. This information 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.560 is critical and it is being withheld, said Brian Spears, 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.680 a civil rights attorney with nearly five decades of experience 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:26.560 litigating police shootings. Unquote. Whatever you believe about the exact 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.879 series of events that led to towards death personally, I 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.760 doubt that will ever know what happened for sure, But regardless, 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.080 the killing of a force defender at the hands of police, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.960 coupled with the domestic terrorism charges marks a significant escalation 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:46.480 in the fight against cops city and even environmental activism 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.320 in this country at large, as this seems to be 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.960 the first killing of an environmental protester by US law enforcement. 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.480 As horrific as this escalation is, it's not out of 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.560 the blue as one might think. All the way back 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.880 in May of two, police were already talking on scanners 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:12.359 about using deadly force against stop coops city protesters. Right, 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:17.280 how old you four encounter? So last time I was 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.040 like in the woods for a decent amount of time 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:23.119 was like last last spring, last summer. What how is 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.440 and in what ways has like living in the woods 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.040 changed since then? Like? What? What? What sort of developments? 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.280 I guess has has there been? Well? One thing that's 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.520 changed m the day to day life in the woods 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.600 and the past several months is that the raids by 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:43.200 the police have been more thorough and so it's required 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.399 a lot of more vigilance to live in the woods 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.880 and a lot more being aware of places to run 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.840 and hide and escape routes. The past few months, police 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:56.320 raids have been increasingly violent and destructive, from the demolition 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.560 of the gazebo in Willani People's Park to the flattening 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.359 of Commune the gardens and the trashing of makeshift cafes 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:09.080 and kitchens within the forest. Using consistently escalated violent tactics, 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:13.720 police have routinely attacked protesters with chemical weapons and rubber bullets, 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.240 have cut tree limbs and safety lines from under them, 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:22.960 and reportedly threatened lethal force, often targeting just peaceful people 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.640 who were sitting in trees or walking through the public park. 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.400 In an article for The Bitter Southerner, an unnamed tree 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:36.080 sitter spoke about a police raid in September where they 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:40.800 described their interactions with law enforcement as such quote they 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.119 threatened to shoot me. They didn't draw their guns, but 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.840 they talked about it. Several showed their side arms while 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.480 locking eyes with me. They very easily could have killed 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.119 my friend in the other tree sit. It was fucking 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:59.200 nuts unquote, and here's a bit from Peter again. Ever 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.600 since the beginning, it's it's been on my mind that, 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.479 you know, there's a possibility of people dying in the woods, 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.199 ever since I started living in the woods, beginning of 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.919 the encampments. It was just something that kept coming up 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.720 into my mind as a possibility. I think before this happened, though, 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.320 people were generally under the impression that the police wouldn't 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.800 murder forest offenders because it would look bad for them. 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.479 Just a month prior to the deadly January raid, another 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.320 police rate took place a couple of weeks before Christmas, 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:31.640 which resulted in the first domestic terrorism charges being levied 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.639 against people arrested near the forest. In the aftermath of 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.359 this raid, a spokesperson for the Atlanta Solidarity Fund talked 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:43.000 about the developing pattern of police escalation against the protest 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:48.200 movement and warned that steadily increasing police repression would lead 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.199 to protesters being killed. And it's clear that if the 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.680 public doesn't respond, if the public doesn't do something about this, 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.720 that escalation is going to continue. Are we going to 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.040 end up in a situation where the police are murdering 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:05.960 protesters in order to advance not public safety, but their 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:11.080 particular political agenda in building Cops City. The use of 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:15.719 infleted charges like domestic terrorism not only make life for 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.679 the people charged a living hell, it also lays the 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:24.720 narrative groundwork to justify extreme physical escalations of force and 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:29.800 increasingly brutal crackdowns. Take it from the gb I director himself, 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.879 as director of Mild said, I'm Director Mike Register of 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.480 the g b I, and over the last several months, 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.399 law enforcement and portions of our community have experienced growing 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:45.120 criminal behavior and terroristic acts committed by individuals and groups 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.840 concerning the building of Atlanta's new public safety training center. 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:53.040 These individuals and groups have attempted to disguise their activities 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.880 as being protests against the building of this facility. I'm 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.520 going to read a short quote from an article for 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:04.479 the Habit Territories newsletter that sums this up nicely. Quote. 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.160 The violent escalation which led to this murder comes during 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.960 increased and coordinated repression against the movement to defend the 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:15.600 Atlanta Forest, where the movement has built a diverse and 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.760 welcoming community through years of organizing. The police have used 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:24.639 every tactic to bad mouth, harass, threaten, surveill, criminalize, and 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:29.840 attack participants. Unquote. One of the forced defenders I spoke with, 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:33.680 who goes by Noah, talked about coming to terms with 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:37.560 something that everyone kind of knew was the possibility, but 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:41.720 still had this element of shock and disbelief. I think 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:45.760 it was really shocking. I think any time you introduce 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.640 polish into a situation, you have the possibility of somebody dying. 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.200 Like anybody who's in the forest, anybody who spent time 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.520 and around activision against the police knows that this is 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.920 like a thing that can happen to um two people 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:08.159 fighting against various types of state power. But it was 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:12.440 it was really really shocked, and I think everyone was 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:15.040 just kind of a loss I personally. I mean, it's 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:18.919 just kind of like I saw with it for a 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:22.160 really long time. It was just kind of like there 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.479 was an era of disbelief to just kind of knowing 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:30.160 that like these were the people we were, that we are, 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:32.200 we were fighting against him, like this is the type 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.800 of thing that they're capable of. Being very shocked and 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:37.240 really scared that this is where we were, that like 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:43.320 the police were now killing activists and you know, you know, 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.080 likelihood going to get away with it. It was a 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:48.879 really terrifying implication for the future of them, for the 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:53.640 future of all social start list in the US. Following 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:57.120 news of the shooting, the Atlantas Solidarity Fund, which provides 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:01.600 bail and legal assistance to political prisoners, protesters and activists, 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.840 put out a statement saying, quote, Georgia State Patrols story 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:10.359 is suspect. They have released few details. We are concerned 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:13.720 a police cover up could be underway. We are preparing 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:18.120 a legal team to investigate and pursue a wrongful death suit. Unquote. 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:23.600 Here's Cricket again talking about the trustworthiness of the official 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:27.600 information being released about the shooting. And I mean, we 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.639 still have so little information, and though the information that 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:34.320 we do have is so tainted, it's so untrustworthy that 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:37.320 it doesn't actually feel like information at all. It doesn't 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:39.960 feel like we can it doesn't feel like information we 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.400 can trust. That's that's sort of the long and short 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:46.960 of it. Last month, over undred climate justice and racial 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:50.800 justice groups from across the United States joined Atlanta residents 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:55.680 and community organizations in calling for an independent investigation into 0:24:55.760 --> 0:25:00.800 the killing of tortu Quita and any police shooting you'd 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:03.399 like to see an independent investigation, because how can you 0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:06.080 let the person who shot the gun investigate the crime? Right, 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:08.639 So it was it was a pretty easy thing to 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:13.119 call for, but especially given the inconsistencies in everyone's story. 0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:16.960 You know, the g b I has said has changed 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:19.480 a couple of times, like the sequence of events and 0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:24.399 that first like towards surprise to them, then they're surprised Towart, 0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:28.480 Then Towart was in a tent. You know, the narrative 0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:31.760 has has changed a couple of times. GSP georg to 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:35.119 Stay Patrol also does not wear body cams, and that 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:37.960 was that's not that's just a day to day thing 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.639 for them. That's hate to say it, but that's not 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:44.240 a something that did specifically for this right just to 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:48.040 screw the movement over that's it's it's actually the pretty 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:50.880 well known issue in the state. There were two little 0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:52.960 wear body camps. Gets cidering how many people they kill 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:56.200 every year. There has come with that. A p D 0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:01.439 says that the bodycams after the incident. Yes, um, we know. 0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:04.919 The raid was kind of a joint operation between Georgia 0:26:04.960 --> 0:26:08.800 Bureau of Investigation, Georgia State Patrol Atlanta Police Department to 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.600 cab County Police Department, UM and some other state agencies. 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:16.679 Georgia State Patrol seems to have been the ones in 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:19.119 the immediate area when it seems to have been a 0:26:19.160 --> 0:26:24.240 trooper that the shot toward. UM. Atlanta Police first came 0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:28.360 out and said that there was no body camp footage, 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:31.080 that they weren't there, and it seems to be true 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.600 that they weren't in the immediate area when the shot 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:36.040 was fired, but they kind of later had to correct 0:26:36.040 --> 0:26:39.360 themselves and say, well, we have body cam of the incident, 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:42.240 but we're not going to release it like on the 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.200 incident itself or like like during the time of yes, 0:26:46.280 --> 0:26:49.639 of what their officers were doing in the part of 0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:53.480 the rate they were doing, they were enacting UM when 0:26:53.600 --> 0:26:57.480 toward a shot. I have seen claims from both local 0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:02.480 media and law enforcement that the GBI investigation does qualify 0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:07.119 as independent, framing the GBIS investigation into the actions of 0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:11.280 the Georgia State Patrol as this separate, non biased operation, 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:14.840 despite the g b I being fellow participants in the 0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:18.919 deadly raid. As an interesting little side note, the Georgia 0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:22.920 State Patrol and the Bureau of Investigation began in late 0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:27.320 nineteen thirties as two branches of the same agency, the 0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:31.040 Georgia Department of Public Safety. So the standard in the state. 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:33.720 I'm sure a lot of places when a person is 0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:37.320 shot by the police, you get it's supposedly independent agency 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:42.359 to review it. In Georgia, it's usually the Georgia Bureau 0:27:42.359 --> 0:27:47.240 of Investigation. But the gb I was a participant in 0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:51.280 the raid. The GBI has been involved in. The GBI 0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:57.600 has been present for several forest raids. Um open records 0:27:57.600 --> 0:28:00.879 requests show that they've been involved in emails and conversations 0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:05.000 about the forest for quite some time. Now. We know 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:08.280 their agents were on scene. We're probably in the woods 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:13.360 when tour It was shot. In addition to that, they're 0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:18.520 both state agencies. In addition to that, there's still police. 0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:20.840 Police are going to cover for each other. We know 0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:24.080 this by now. A day after the shooting, the Georgia 0:28:24.119 --> 0:28:27.720 Bureau of Investigation stated that there was no body cam 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:31.919 footage of the incident, but open records requests were filed 0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:35.320 asking for bodycam footage from the forest around the time 0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:37.879 of the incident, not only from the State Patrol, but 0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:40.760 also from the Atlanta and De Cabb County police departments. 0:28:41.400 --> 0:28:44.040 Two days after the police killing in Atlanta, p D 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:47.120 spokesperson said that a p D officers were not in 0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:50.480 the area of the shooting and that no footage from 0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:56.760 Wednesday's operation would be released, citing the ongoing investigation. And 0:28:56.800 --> 0:28:59.920 then a whole three weeks after the shooting, on feb 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:04.280 weary eight, the Atlanta Police Department released bodycam footage from 0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:07.040 four officers who were in the woods at the time 0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:10.440 of the shooting. An officer in the group estimated that 0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:14.040 they were just one hundred feet away. I'm not gonna 0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:17.760 play audio of the gun shots or any use of 0:29:17.840 --> 0:29:21.880 police weapons, but I'll be including a few brief snippets 0:29:21.960 --> 0:29:26.200 of police chatter that I and others found relevant. Most 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:28.000 of the clips will only be a few seconds long, 0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:30.360 so you can skip ahead if you want. I'll give 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:33.440 you a heads up at time of recording. There are 0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:36.960 four videos released, and they show a self described quote 0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:41.080 unquote clearing operation being done by a single group of 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:45.960 ap D officers. Shortly after tearing apart and slicing up 0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:49.680 two tents with a pocket knife, suddenly four gun shots 0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.760 are heard nearby, followed a second and a half later 0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:56.400 by a large volume of gunfire. I estimate over thirty 0:29:56.400 --> 0:30:01.000 gun shots fired by multiple weapons. No verbal commands were 0:30:01.000 --> 0:30:05.200 picked up by the microphone. Two chest mounted cameras were 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:09.360 rolling before the shooting. Forty seconds after the gunfire, ap 0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:12.760 D officers were told to turn on their body cams 0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:16.840 and two more cameras began rolling. At that point, Officer 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:20.600 down started getting repeated over the radio, but initially there 0:30:20.600 --> 0:30:24.120 were questions among officers about how much of the sounds 0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:30.560 heard were fireworks versus gunshots. Multiple officers identified hearing suppressed gunfire, 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:34.920 meaning the use of a quote unquote silencer. Here's two 0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:50.320 clips totaling around fifteen seconds for that sounded like suppressed gunfire. Here. 0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:55.440 Just minutes after police opened fire and killed Tortuguita, an 0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:58.280 ap D officer on the ground said this in response 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:05.920 to the Georgia State Patrol trooper that was shot. You 0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:10.280 fucked your own officer up, possibly said in response to 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:16.120 other officers noting that the gunshots sounded suppressed. Confirmation spread 0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:19.400 on the ground that estate trooper was shot, but never 0:31:19.480 --> 0:31:24.400 once mentioning anything about a protester firing. Police continued advancing 0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:28.600 toward a nearby tent with guns drawn and officers yelling 0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:38.760 back and forth to check their crossfire. As teams were 0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:43.000 organizing the evac of the injured trooper and warning about crossfire, 0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:47.320 police stated that they did not want to cause another incident. 0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:50.320 You know, I'll just we just need a hole until 0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:52.600 we can get them out, get the whole steal first. 0:31:54.040 --> 0:31:57.480 We don't want to cause another incident. At this point, 0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:00.480 there was a great deal of intentional coordination of officer 0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:04.040 movement and a lot of effort being put into preventing 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:07.080 police officers from being in each other's line of fire. 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:10.520 This next batch of adio will be a little bit longer, 0:32:10.560 --> 0:32:17.600 about a minute. Hey, wat's cause fire order? What's call fire? 0:32:20.480 --> 0:32:25.120 We're on on the side. Let's say let's say let's 0:32:25.120 --> 0:32:28.120 say what I'm saying. Everyone is back here because we 0:32:28.160 --> 0:32:32.280 need to shift. There's everyone is back here, so y'all 0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:34.680 shoot from that side. There's more officers over here, so 0:32:34.720 --> 0:32:39.440 we need to shift back on this side. Public. Ta hey, sorry, 0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:42.120 s the hill potter, come this way. We watched this 0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:51.360 dis lay part of call. All right, go around, Okay, cool, 0:32:51.360 --> 0:33:01.680 We're going on the other side. There, I got you, 0:33:01.720 --> 0:33:09.760 I got you right right there is the face of 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:14.240 our art semi circle. Everyone he could pick back this way. Hey, 0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:20.520 keep coming this way, keeps coming back this way? On anybody, 0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:23.640 do a contact? What they want from? Who are you 0:33:23.640 --> 0:33:31.240 wring about? They need who? Police started firing off flashbangs 0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:34.960 and prepping chemical weapons as they moved further into the 0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:38.520 woods near where the deadly police shooting just took place 0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:43.960 moments prior. Holy hey nine or you will be bit 0:33:44.960 --> 0:33:48.960 fuck around and you're gonna find out. From another angle, 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:51.400 you can hear a cop laugh in response to his 0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:55.160 fellow officer threatening funk around and find out, just minutes 0:33:55.200 --> 0:34:03.040 after police killed a protester. Yeah, if you listen carefully, 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:07.040 you can hear an officer muttering about how large the 0:34:07.080 --> 0:34:10.480 police presence is, saying, we've got so many resources. We 0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:14.200 don't need to rush this ship sandwich on a second, 0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:19.160 I've got so many resources rushes shop. Cops shot off 0:34:19.239 --> 0:34:23.919 quote unquote les lethal pepperballs at an unoccupied green tent 0:34:24.440 --> 0:34:27.840 and only ended up gassing themselves as they had to 0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:30.640 walk through the peppered up trees on their way to 0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:33.520 the tent. Literally, there was over a minute and a 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:37.279 half of just straight coughing. When they arrived at the tent, 0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:41.200 officers got into a brief conversation about the deadly shooting 0:34:41.200 --> 0:34:46.680 that just took place and the injured trooper step shoot 0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:53.200 it on there. Huh when will we get shot? That 0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:59.719 first arts worked, the first one that's right now for 0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:07.680 threw round the Twitter. Remember that just two hours after 0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:11.200 the shooting, even before the Georgia Bureau of Investigation's first 0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:14.680 press conference that defend the force twitter account said quote, 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:17.840 we have reason to believe the officer shot today was 0:35:17.960 --> 0:35:21.160 hit by friendly fire and not by the protester who 0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:26.400 was killed unquote in an extremely un characteristic move. The 0:35:26.480 --> 0:35:28.799 g b I put out a statement commenting on the 0:35:28.840 --> 0:35:33.839 evidence during their ongoing investigation, cautioning against quote unquote speculation 0:35:34.080 --> 0:35:37.680 and that quote memory and perception are fragile and the 0:35:37.800 --> 0:35:42.600 myriad of factors can influence perception and memory unquote. The 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:46.080 morning after the body cam footage went public, a statement 0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:50.560 was released by Tortoquita's family, saying, quote, the videos show 0:35:50.719 --> 0:35:54.400 the clearing of the forest was a paramilitary operation that 0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:57.919 set the stage for the excessive use of force and 0:35:58.200 --> 0:36:02.920 also call into question previous reporting regarding the events leading 0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:07.359 up to the police shooting unquote towards own mother, who 0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:10.720 recently arrived in the United States on an emergency visa, 0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:14.120 said weeks ago in an interview for The Guardian, quote, 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:17.480 I will go to the US to defend Manual's memory. 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:22.279 I'm convinced that they were assassinated in cold blood, and 0:36:22.600 --> 0:36:26.520 I'm gonna clear Manual's name. They killed them like they 0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:29.840 tear down the trees in the forest, a forest Manual 0:36:30.040 --> 0:36:34.640 loved with a passion unquote. There is an official go 0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:38.440 fund me for Tortuguita, managed by and for their family, 0:36:38.880 --> 0:36:43.680 with funds going to funeral expenses, plus travel, legal costs, 0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:46.480 and to support the family in general during this time 0:36:46.520 --> 0:36:49.960 of events grief. The fundraiser will be linked in the 0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:55.760 show notes. This first episode has been a lot tackling 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:59.279 many of the most gruesome aspects of the struggle thus far. 0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:04.719 Cricket talked about one way of responding to this influx 0:37:04.760 --> 0:37:09.640 of anger and grief that everyone's been experiencing since the shooting. Yeah, 0:37:09.719 --> 0:37:11.680 I mean there's just been there's been so much grief 0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:13.800 and so much anger, and so many people coming together 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:16.919 and so many people trying to support one another. There's 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:20.280 been a at least among the folks I know, um, 0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:22.920 a lot of trying to think through like what would 0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:26.600 tort do w W t D and like loving one 0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:29.680 another and supporting one another keeps being one of the 0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:33.040 first things on that list. We will hear more about 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:38.400 Torteguita in the next episode memories and stories from friends, partners, 0:37:38.480 --> 0:37:42.240 and comrades based on conversations and moments from the vigil. 0:37:42.880 --> 0:37:45.640 But today I'll leave us with the words of Torteguita 0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:50.360 quote the abolitionist mission isn't done until every prison is empty, 0:37:50.640 --> 0:37:52.680 when there are no more cops, when the land has 0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:56.200 been given back. That's when it's over. I don't expect 0:37:56.239 --> 0:37:59.160 to live to see that day necessarily. I mean, I 0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:05.400 hope so. But I smoke unquote music for this episode 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:09.160 by the narcissists cookbook and to propaganda. See you on 0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:13.360 the other side. Yeah, the rain on leaves tickling, the 0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:16.640 earliest of instruments the melody were mimicing is the sound 0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:19.879 of wind whistling long before the safety its channing under 0:38:19.920 --> 0:38:22.640 the stars, on the camp under or canopy. She sang 0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:26.040 on song and she was far from silent. No virus 0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:28.680 or violets, but the fragrance of her flowers. It continue 0:38:28.760 --> 0:38:32.640 to invite us of medicine materials of vitamins are minerals 0:38:32.800 --> 0:38:35.320 and all that is essential which just grew right beside 0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:37.759 us and Tyson started fighting over the gifts that she 0:38:37.880 --> 0:38:40.879 provided us, scorching the very soil that all of us 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:44.680 arrived from. And when empires learning can't withstand Bia, we 0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:47.880 returned to the land where our ancestors rain dance. We 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:50.840 are all her creatures. We still bear her features, the 0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:53.920 one and only reason all living things is breathing. The 0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:57.239 city's deceive and lead. Go see the dirt, young gon, 0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:00.319 be among the lungs of Mother Earth. Cud, I have 0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:11.360 found your voice. Yea fare you take your fromm Yeah, 0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:24.000 fire flashing bone Yeah. Before the shop him down, Before 0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:54.040 that shop him down, there was the forest. A lot 0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:57.280 of things have changed in the woods since I visited 0:39:57.400 --> 0:40:01.840 last year. The even Trenchman Creek Park trailhead at Wilani 0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:06.719 People's Park is now basically a massive mud pit, the 0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:12.080 trees cut down and all the grass gone. Sidewalks and 0:40:12.120 --> 0:40:15.640 bike paths have all been turned into rubble. As we 0:40:15.719 --> 0:40:18.520 talked about in the last episode, the police have been 0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:22.440 increasingly destructive during their more and more frequent raids on 0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:26.080 the forest in the past year. The cops have demolished 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:31.799 dozens of treehouses and targeted protesters with escalatory tactics. The 0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:34.960 last thirteen people who have been arrested near the forest 0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:38.560 have all been charged with domestic terrorism for their mere 0:40:38.640 --> 0:40:42.879 association with the Stop Cops City movement. As hard as 0:40:42.880 --> 0:40:45.840 the cops are making it to continue being in the woods, 0:40:46.560 --> 0:40:50.879 there is still something undeniably special about being in community 0:40:51.040 --> 0:40:55.080 in the forest, or else people wouldn't be risking life 0:40:55.080 --> 0:40:58.239 and legal consequences. Living in the woods for me was 0:40:58.440 --> 0:41:00.680 like a dream. I came to the woods because I 0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:03.840 was homeless and unemployed and was actually living in different 0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:07.000 woods by myself, and tour actually came to the woods 0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:10.279 for similar reasons. Toward lost their housing in Tallahassee and 0:41:10.320 --> 0:41:12.320 decided to give this place a try as a place 0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:17.160 to live in the forest, there was always over time 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:22.360 just developed like you know, um people built coffee shops 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:26.200 and like a kitchen people used and places for people 0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:30.200 just like hang out and that and that continued. I 0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:32.880 never stopped, you will never stop, and they never stopped 0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:38.880 making life out better. It's comfortable, it's comfortable, and it's welcoming, 0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:42.520 and there's a community as possible That's really the best 0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:44.120 thing I feel like I could I can speak to 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:46.120 one It is that no matter what was going on, 0:41:46.280 --> 0:41:50.200 people were always working to make the forests as welcome 0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:53.680 out of spitch towards many people as possible. As the 0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:58.040 night of the December thirte police raid, Tortuguita went back 0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:01.719 to the camp in Wilani People's part to start rebuilding 0:42:01.920 --> 0:42:06.160 after police tore down the encampments and protest infrastructure just 0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:11.520 hours prior. I've never experienced such emotional and material security 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:15.000 as I have living in the Wolawnie Forest because there 0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:17.520 are a community of people that are dedicated to taking 0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:19.400 care of each other and making sure that we all 0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:21.960 have our needs met. And that was something that tort 0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:24.680 and I did for each other, often making sure that 0:42:24.719 --> 0:42:27.640 we had enough water and food and rides to places. 0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:31.000 It's really a wonderful place to live, and I've also 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:34.520 deep in my relationship to the earth being there, Like 0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:37.120 living with the same trees for over a year is 0:42:37.120 --> 0:42:40.719 a really profound experience. And also it's a really stressful 0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:43.960 place and people are always butting heads in really interesting ways, 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:47.399 but we're committed to remaining in relationship with each other 0:42:47.680 --> 0:42:50.239 as part of the magic too, is that if you 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:52.319 get into a fight with someone at camp, you don't 0:42:52.360 --> 0:42:54.759 just you know, like move to a different apartment and 0:42:54.800 --> 0:42:57.439 stop talking to them, like they're still around and there's 0:42:57.440 --> 0:43:00.520 still a comrade. So we're committed to each other in 0:43:00.520 --> 0:43:03.600 a way that's it's rare to find the society. Here 0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:07.640 is Cricket talking about the type of support everyone has 0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:10.680 for each other in the movement and how Towart really 0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:13.439 embodied that. I think one of the things I've seen 0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:15.560 in my experience of the movement is just the tremendous 0:43:15.600 --> 0:43:18.840 amount of care that everyone has for one another. You 0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:20.719 don't have to know one another, we don't have to 0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:23.160 be on a legal name basis, and we still fight 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:25.719 for one another, we still protect one another, we still 0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:28.239 try to save one another, and that is something I 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:32.960 saw tort embody regularly and I'm um, I'm grateful to 0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:36.600 everyone who has helped keep me safe, and I always, yeah, 0:43:36.640 --> 0:43:39.080 I'm always trying to keep everyone else safe in any 0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:42.319 capacity that I can. So we've done a lot of 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:46.120 safety trainings. Something that tort was a really big part 0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:49.960 of was medic medic trainings, making sure that people have 0:43:50.000 --> 0:43:52.640 access to life saving techniques and skills that are often 0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:56.439 kept away from really vulnerable folks. So that is something 0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:59.200 we've been trying to contribute and and that we're trying 0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:02.839 to continue now toward us no longer with us we were. 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:05.640 We were supposed to meet yesterday to put together a 0:44:05.719 --> 0:44:12.000 curriculum marginalized vulnerable people who face gun violence both from 0:44:12.000 --> 0:44:14.560 the state and from right wing Newo Nazi fascists. You 0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:17.960 name it um and we'll be continuing that work in 0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:22.080 their in their name. When spending time in the Wulani forest, 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:25.440 and even for the many peripheral aspects of the movement, 0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:30.120 people will choose a forest name. It's like a nickname 0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:34.120 that helps hide your legal identity and Norman de plume. 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:39.680 Many chose Tortu Guita, which is Spanish for little turtle. 0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:43.840 But it wasn't just chosen for its cute animal association. 0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:48.240 I'll read from bitter Southerner quote. It was a nod 0:44:48.280 --> 0:44:51.919 to the colonial era indigenous military commander of the same name, 0:44:52.080 --> 0:44:55.520 who led Native American forces to one of their most 0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:59.560 decisive victories against the then nascent U s Army in 0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:06.200 seven Teene. Now Toward was allegedly apprehensive to share the 0:45:06.239 --> 0:45:09.640 meaning behind their chosen name with a journalist who was 0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:13.439 interviewing them, because quote that does not make us look 0:45:13.480 --> 0:45:18.560 like peaceful protesters. We are very peaceful people, I promise. Unquote. 0:45:19.080 --> 0:45:22.200 There are's a few other quotes attributed to Toward across 0:45:22.320 --> 0:45:26.200 various articles that seemed to espouse a belief in non 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:31.080 violence as a tactical strategy. Quote, it's incredibly important to 0:45:31.239 --> 0:45:36.400 continue having popular support. Cops. City is incredibly unpopular already. 0:45:36.880 --> 0:45:39.880 We're very popular. We're cool. We get a lot of 0:45:39.880 --> 0:45:43.000 support from people who live here, and that's important because 0:45:43.320 --> 0:45:46.279 we win through non violence. We're not going to beat 0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:49.360 them at violence, but we can beat them in public 0:45:49.400 --> 0:45:54.319 opinion in the courts, even unquote. Based on frequent phone 0:45:54.320 --> 0:45:58.919 calls with Toward about forced defense, Tortuguita's own mother has 0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:03.800 shared similar sentence about towards politics, saying they quote carried 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:07.399 no malice unquote. I'm going to read one more quote 0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:12.279 from Tortuguita about this topic. The right kind of resistance 0:46:12.520 --> 0:46:16.319 is peaceful, because that's where we win. We're not going 0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:20.400 to beat them at violence. They're very very good at violence. 0:46:20.960 --> 0:46:24.960 We're not. We win through non violence. That's really the 0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:28.360 only way we can win. We don't want more people 0:46:28.400 --> 0:46:31.840 to die. We don't want Atlanta to turn into a 0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:36.120 war zone. During my time in Atlanta, I wanted to 0:46:36.200 --> 0:46:39.719 learn as much as possible about Torto Guita, about who 0:46:39.719 --> 0:46:41.520 they were as a person, what kind of stuff they 0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:45.240 enjoyed doing, what they were to the movement, but mostly 0:46:45.320 --> 0:46:49.440 just listened to people's stories and memories of tort Peter 0:46:49.680 --> 0:46:53.600 met Towards just shortly after they moved to Atlanta. So 0:46:53.640 --> 0:46:57.879 I met Towards in Mayo, around the time when they 0:46:57.920 --> 0:47:01.160 first got to the forest from Tallahassee. I met them 0:47:01.239 --> 0:47:05.480 during that week of action, and they were like insanely 0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:09.120 enthusiastic about being there. We met around a fire and 0:47:09.160 --> 0:47:12.920 talked about how our enthusiasm for life sometimes offended people. 0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:16.479 That was something that we had in common. They talked 0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:19.000 about their mom a lot. I won't say I was 0:47:19.320 --> 0:47:21.960 a close friend of Torts, but I was a dear 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:26.000 comrade to them, and being in relationship with them really 0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:30.400 sharpened my conflict skills. I was in a few different 0:47:30.440 --> 0:47:33.759 conflict with Towart and also on the sidelines for some 0:47:33.840 --> 0:47:37.000 conflicts that they had with other people, and I learned 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:38.960 a lot about how to be more gentle with my 0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:42.120 comrades and how to give people more grace in times 0:47:42.120 --> 0:47:45.879 of high stress. This is a snippet from my conversation 0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:49.240 with Cricket on what Tortu Guita brought to the movement 0:47:49.440 --> 0:47:53.560 and how they really lived their politics to it was hilarious. 0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:56.080 They were someone who always brought fund to whatever they 0:47:56.080 --> 0:47:59.000 were doing. And I'm sure through the folks that you're seeing, 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:01.719 the folks that people can see on social media with 0:48:01.800 --> 0:48:04.279 like the outpour and support for TOURT, that they were 0:48:04.280 --> 0:48:07.239 involved in so many different groups, like so many different causes. Um. 0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:10.120 And they were. They were an incredibly dedicated activists, but 0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:12.799 someone who really felt that resistance could be fun, could 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:16.600 be joyful, could be celebratory. It was always an opportunity 0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:19.200 to meet new people, to hug new people. Um. They 0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:21.800 were a big hugger. They were someone who was always 0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:23.719 checking in on other people. They were someone who was 0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:27.640 always there to lend a hand, either literally or or 0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:30.799 or metaphorically. And they really inspired I think a lot 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:33.040 of people, and I think that that was something huge 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:35.320 that they contributed to the movement, not just as a person, 0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:38.520 but also bringing that joyfulness bringing that that energy, that 0:48:38.600 --> 0:48:42.040 passion and excitement really inspired me and inspired a lot 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:44.080 of people. It's it's funny a lot of the people 0:48:44.080 --> 0:48:46.319 I've I've talked to you were like have have like 0:48:47.000 --> 0:48:50.520 mentioned just because of the different like you know, affinity 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:53.080 groups they've been in and stuff. There's like all people 0:48:53.080 --> 0:48:55.840 I've talked to you talked have mentioned a lot like that. 0:48:55.960 --> 0:48:58.560 They would not like regularly, but like everyone's in a while, 0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:00.440 like get into conflicts with tort Like there was there 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:03.319 was someone who you would you would sometimes um who 0:49:03.360 --> 0:49:06.200 there would be just happened to be disagreements with. But 0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:11.120 despite disagreements, they were like one of the kindest people 0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:15.200 that they met. Even when they're you know, arguing about 0:49:15.239 --> 0:49:17.799 about something. It's like they would go so far to 0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.640 make sure that other people knew that they were like 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:23.400 cared for and would would go and I just be 0:49:23.960 --> 0:49:27.279 be very open towards like everybody they meet. Yeah, I 0:49:27.320 --> 0:49:29.880 think they really tried to live into and walk the 0:49:29.920 --> 0:49:34.280 walk of abolition and noncarcetol conflict of it's okay to disagree, 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:36.960 and disagreement doesn't mean that you've got to get kicked out. 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:40.200 It does not mean that you're a bad person. They 0:49:40.200 --> 0:49:43.040 allowed for complexity and a law for processes of working 0:49:43.040 --> 0:49:45.600 through things, of talking through things, and that's a a 0:49:45.719 --> 0:49:49.480 huge gift. I I mean, I think anyone, regardless of 0:49:49.520 --> 0:49:52.040 their level of activism, can relate to the idea that 0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:55.960 it's hard to disagree. It's it's hard to be in 0:49:56.280 --> 0:49:59.200 conflict sometimes. But I do think that they were really 0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:02.600 committed to the relationships of trust where you could disagree, 0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:05.440 where you could have different opinions, but that there was 0:50:05.480 --> 0:50:07.799 still so much love and still so much care, and 0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:11.319 that those things were not themselves in conflict. Those things 0:50:11.320 --> 0:50:14.160 were actually very very much related. And yeah, no, it 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:19.560 was there. They're special and yeah, I'm just I'm just sorry. 0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:25.200 I'm just heartbroken. Tortuguita's partner and a close friend of theirs, 0:50:25.680 --> 0:50:29.720 recorded a video shortly after the shooting, just talking about 0:50:29.760 --> 0:50:33.759 who Tortuguita was and how they lived in community. I 0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:36.759 got permission from their partner to use clips from that 0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:40.319 video in this episode tour. It was always a very 0:50:40.360 --> 0:50:45.000 welcoming presence there, always one of the greatest organizers we 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:47.920 had out there. They took care of everyone who came through. 0:50:48.080 --> 0:50:50.000 They always want to make sure everyone was taken care of. 0:50:51.120 --> 0:50:54.520 They were the ones who would welcome you into the 0:50:54.560 --> 0:50:57.680 forest and they would make sure you have a sleeping bag, 0:50:57.840 --> 0:51:00.080 a sleeping pad at tent, whatever you could possibly you 0:51:00.600 --> 0:51:05.200 always making sure people are getting fed and just like 0:51:07.600 --> 0:51:11.320 I'm transparent, you've never had One of the people I 0:51:11.360 --> 0:51:16.279 spoke with, Noah also talked about how Tortuguito was quick 0:51:16.360 --> 0:51:19.279 to welcome people into the movement. I need to work 0:51:19.360 --> 0:51:23.040 through various actions and around the forest and doing medical 0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:26.960 work with them. Um. I think I think a lot 0:51:26.960 --> 0:51:28.920 of people have recurred this, but I remember them as 0:51:28.960 --> 0:51:31.360 being one of the kind of stuff not welcoming people 0:51:31.680 --> 0:51:34.800 that I ever not working on the forest. Kind of 0:51:35.800 --> 0:51:39.000 people come in was very like, very often kind of 0:51:39.040 --> 0:51:41.000 like one of the first people agree with them, and 0:51:41.120 --> 0:51:44.480 was always very like open to letting people come and 0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:46.319 see and be a part of the community that had 0:51:46.360 --> 0:51:49.520 been established on the woods. It was a very um 0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:51.320 there was a strongly welcome in person. They were a 0:51:51.400 --> 0:51:54.759 very welcome in person. I was always willing to do 0:51:55.040 --> 0:51:59.080 to help somebody out and do the work I took 0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:02.360 to make sure that's the commit that it could continue. 0:52:03.080 --> 0:52:05.319 So much of the stuff around the forest, it's all 0:52:05.360 --> 0:52:09.319 about like the militants in the woods and towards kind 0:52:09.320 --> 0:52:12.279 of fell into that category, you know, people who are 0:52:12.320 --> 0:52:15.400 wearing bala lava's camping out in the forest. Most of 0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:18.520 the people I've interviewed are also more on that side 0:52:18.520 --> 0:52:21.799 of things, but not everyone feels like they have the 0:52:21.840 --> 0:52:23.920 ability to put on a ski mask and live in 0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:27.000 the woods. One of the people I spoke with was 0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:31.320 a mother named Karen, who started doing local neighborhood organizing 0:52:31.520 --> 0:52:35.560 after connecting with Tortuguita last summer. So I met tourt 0:52:35.960 --> 0:52:38.920 Less summer and there was like lots of things happening 0:52:38.920 --> 0:52:42.040 in the park and you know, I'm a neighbor and 0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:45.239 so I was a who really fought for you know, 0:52:45.360 --> 0:52:47.560 tried to get the city council to vote against it. 0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:50.880 And so I was interested, you know, curious and interested 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:54.239 about all of these events happening at the park. They 0:52:54.280 --> 0:52:58.080 were all like mostly at nighttime. And I have a toddler, 0:52:58.120 --> 0:53:01.719 and so I'm like boring and have a strict bedtime, 0:53:02.040 --> 0:53:05.840 so I don't, you know, go out at nighttime. Um. 0:53:05.880 --> 0:53:08.360 So I was like trying to find a place for 0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:11.920 me and like people like me and they're boring, you know, parents, 0:53:12.280 --> 0:53:15.719 and so I got connected them with Tort and we 0:53:15.800 --> 0:53:18.840 start and we started, I guess going during the daytime, 0:53:18.880 --> 0:53:21.080 and I'm I'm taking my toddler over there to the 0:53:21.080 --> 0:53:25.640 park to explore, and you know, we Tort and I 0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:27.839 talked a lot about well, at first, they were really 0:53:27.840 --> 0:53:31.960 excited about all the the idea, like children being at 0:53:32.000 --> 0:53:34.440 the park. They really wanted it the park to be 0:53:34.520 --> 0:53:37.759 for everyone, and very much like a neighborhood mom. Like 0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:40.520 I was new to activism and I didn't even know. 0:53:40.840 --> 0:53:43.160 I was like, um, you know, I thought we were 0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:47.160 just like visiting a park, but you know, there's like 0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:49.960 a whole lot of different things about being in it 0:53:50.000 --> 0:53:53.120 that really kind of helped me navigate and showed me around. 0:53:53.880 --> 0:53:57.040 In my experience, it takes a special kind of person 0:53:57.160 --> 0:54:00.640 to onboard somebody new to this sort of thing. Some 0:54:00.760 --> 0:54:04.840 anarchists can come off as a bit pompous sometimes or 0:54:04.920 --> 0:54:08.680 at least hesitant to welcome new people in. Karen spoke 0:54:08.760 --> 0:54:11.879 on how Tortuguita kind of showed them the ropes and 0:54:12.040 --> 0:54:17.040 helped educate on everything from local organizing to security culture. Well, 0:54:17.120 --> 0:54:20.239 I didn't have signal before. I was like, okay, I 0:54:20.239 --> 0:54:22.720 want to reach out to try and make my neighborhood aware. 0:54:23.280 --> 0:54:27.960 I made flyers and just like put like the environmental effects, 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:29.920 you know, and I send it to tort and they 0:54:29.920 --> 0:54:32.799 were like, okay, yeah, this looks good. And then I 0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:36.120 was like, should it just be like anonymous or should 0:54:36.120 --> 0:54:41.080 I you know, like make like Instagram or should I 0:54:41.080 --> 0:54:43.520 put my name on it and you know all those things? 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:46.919 Should I put my number on it? And they were like, okay, well, 0:54:47.160 --> 0:54:49.920 get a Google Voice number and you can set up 0:54:49.920 --> 0:54:53.239 like an email for it, maybe use Proton. Then I 0:54:53.320 --> 0:54:55.680 was like, should I just like I don't have to 0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:58.400 put any information on it? But like what if you 0:54:58.440 --> 0:55:01.200 know there's people like me and the neighborhood. I guess, 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:03.279 like how do you balance that? And they said no, 0:55:03.560 --> 0:55:06.120 I think if you've got to like organize a neighborhood group, 0:55:06.120 --> 0:55:09.440 it would be sick. So yeah, you know, they were 0:55:09.480 --> 0:55:12.560 conscious of all those things, but also like knew where 0:55:12.680 --> 0:55:16.080 when and where it was like appropriate, and we just 0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:19.080 like bounced ideas back and forth. They really helped me 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:21.759 like navigate that. I really think it just shows how 0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:25.680 inclusive they were that they like how they were engaged 0:55:25.719 --> 0:55:29.160 with me and like, you know, an older neighborhood mom. 0:55:29.239 --> 0:55:32.080 But they were really supportive and you know, I guess 0:55:32.080 --> 0:55:35.040 made me feel valued, never made me feel embarrassed at anything. 0:55:35.640 --> 0:55:38.440 I think it was just like if it wasn't about 0:55:38.480 --> 0:55:40.560 like the party or I don't know, like being cool 0:55:40.680 --> 0:55:42.600 or anything. They just really wanted the forest to be 0:55:42.680 --> 0:55:45.480 for everyone and just how they were like willing to 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:49.880 engage with the community. My conversations with Karen and others 0:55:49.920 --> 0:55:53.279 in Atlanta really showed toward as a person who was 0:55:53.560 --> 0:55:56.400 always thinking about others and how to support the people 0:55:56.400 --> 0:55:59.920 around them, not even just focusing on themselves while live 0:56:00.120 --> 0:56:03.600 in the forest, but working to expand that care outwards. 0:56:04.160 --> 0:56:06.959 So yeah, I made this flyer and called a bunch 0:56:06.960 --> 0:56:10.840 of other I don't even know if they were people 0:56:10.960 --> 0:56:13.760 that were living in the forest or just people and 0:56:13.880 --> 0:56:17.600 you know, friends or whatever, but and was like, hey, 0:56:17.800 --> 0:56:20.879 we're all going to go canvas and and I think 0:56:20.920 --> 0:56:23.880 they slept in that day we met at the park, 0:56:23.960 --> 0:56:26.440 but me and a couple of neighbors met like you know, 0:56:26.520 --> 0:56:30.040 and I was like I had zero expectations and in 0:56:30.080 --> 0:56:32.320 they texted me later and I was like, I'm so sorry, 0:56:32.320 --> 0:56:36.000 but we'll do it again. But yeah, just that you know, 0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:38.440 like they were willing to come put flyers door to 0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:42.400 door and yeah, just like support me in that way. 0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:47.000 Karen has continued to do neighborhood organizing since meeting towards 0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:50.680 last summer, and it's a great example of the variety 0:56:50.760 --> 0:56:54.000 of people involved in the Defend the Atlanta Forest movement. 0:56:54.840 --> 0:56:58.640 Based on the many local people she's spoken with, Karen 0:56:58.719 --> 0:57:02.160 says the stop cops any proposal is pretty unpopular in 0:57:02.200 --> 0:57:06.200 the area. So yeah, we've just been like dropping flyers 0:57:06.200 --> 0:57:09.759 off and just letting them know the environmental effects. And 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:12.279 everyone we've talked to like, you know, no one wants it, 0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:16.200 and I think lots of people, lots of them called in, 0:57:16.280 --> 0:57:19.320 you know, to city council. But yeah, I guess Tort 0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:21.400 and I and our kind of idea was like if 0:57:21.400 --> 0:57:25.000 we can make a space. It's like, you know, they 0:57:25.040 --> 0:57:27.200 may not want to go to the forest, but if 0:57:27.240 --> 0:57:29.360 we can kind of create a space for them in 0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:33.680 the movement. Cricket talked about the many projects that Tort 0:57:33.760 --> 0:57:37.320 had a hand in and it's willingness to just go 0:57:37.360 --> 0:57:39.800 out there and do things, not just sit around and 0:57:39.840 --> 0:57:43.560 wait for the world to get better. They lived anarchism 0:57:43.640 --> 0:57:46.480 in a very active way. I don't know if anyone 0:57:46.520 --> 0:57:50.880 mentioned the Transanctuary that tort built and helped built and 0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:53.640 and helped organize. I just want to uplift that as 0:57:53.680 --> 0:57:56.040 just another sort of amazing project that they were involved with. 0:57:56.960 --> 0:57:59.480 I remember hearing about it to talked about it and 0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:02.000 they were like, oh, yeah, you know, we're gonna have 0:58:02.000 --> 0:58:04.520 a volunteer day. And then two weeks later we had 0:58:04.560 --> 0:58:06.680 like another little check in and they were like, oh, yeah, no, 0:58:06.840 --> 0:58:09.600 we we like did it. And I was like, excuse me, 0:58:09.800 --> 0:58:12.360 Like I just just I don't know, they were just 0:58:12.400 --> 0:58:15.680 like this this Tasmanian devil of social justice. Like I 0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:18.040 felt like they were just constantly on the move getting 0:58:18.080 --> 0:58:21.120 stuff done, supporting people. It's just it was I don't know, 0:58:21.160 --> 0:58:23.920 like that's just another memory that I keep revisiting of 0:58:24.000 --> 0:58:26.760 just being like, oh my god, they are not paralyzed 0:58:26.800 --> 0:58:29.680 like they are living. They were living day to day right, 0:58:29.760 --> 0:58:32.600 like they knew that tomorrow could bring another raid, like 0:58:32.880 --> 0:58:36.600 they Yeah, they weren't stupid. They were really actually brilliant 0:58:36.640 --> 0:58:39.080 and they could just they just lived every day so 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:42.880 fully and brought everything they had. A friend of Tortuguitas 0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:46.200 that goes by the name levitate the Pentagon, which is 0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:49.000 definitely in the top three force names that I've heard. 0:58:49.400 --> 0:58:52.160 But they gave a statement to Rolling Stone where they said, 0:58:52.280 --> 0:58:57.320 quote Tortuguita was a proud and figures anarchist. The struggle 0:58:57.400 --> 0:59:00.040 for a total liberation came as their first commit and 0:59:00.240 --> 0:59:04.320 in life we must honor that commitment. From a lot 0:59:04.360 --> 0:59:06.920 of the like many of the trains that we did 0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:10.040 together and times out there, they were just, um, I 0:59:10.040 --> 0:59:12.840 don't have really funny they like to make people have 0:59:13.080 --> 0:59:19.000 be like a very common presence during stressful times. Um. 0:59:19.000 --> 0:59:22.560 And they could make like a joke really out of 0:59:22.640 --> 0:59:25.520 manning in a situation. But a lot of remember like 0:59:25.560 --> 0:59:27.840 a lot of conversations just about what we were doing 0:59:27.960 --> 0:59:31.280 in the forest, and there are like reasons for being 0:59:31.320 --> 0:59:35.920 out there, um and there you know, just kind of 0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:41.400 a going these ideas of combating there you know, the state, 0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:44.680 and then then the state's pushed for you know, destroying 0:59:44.720 --> 0:59:47.040 the forest, for the effects that the would have on 0:59:47.080 --> 0:59:50.680 the climates, for the increasing ability of the placed militarize 0:59:50.760 --> 0:59:54.280 and to suppress not just people have la but law 0:59:54.360 --> 0:59:56.680 enforced agencies across the country. Coming to training at the 0:59:56.760 --> 1:00:02.440 facility to better clamp down on the presence. Yeah, just 1:00:03.720 --> 1:00:11.520 they're really time to come back to pression. Towards capacity 1:00:11.600 --> 1:00:16.200 for wit under high stress situations is something I heard 1:00:16.240 --> 1:00:19.280 from a lot of different people, including towards friends and 1:00:19.360 --> 1:00:23.600 their partner just really really like always like had a joke, 1:00:24.280 --> 1:00:31.000 had like a really like good sharp commentary, or would 1:00:31.040 --> 1:00:35.560 like give you like a cigarette professional ship poster. Yeah yeah, 1:00:35.880 --> 1:00:43.440 I mean their meme game on point um Yeah, and 1:00:45.320 --> 1:00:47.800 just always like doing a lot of things. And so 1:00:47.840 --> 1:00:50.240 they were running around a lot, like getting things for 1:00:50.400 --> 1:00:54.600 people and then handing it off to them, and so like, yeah, 1:00:54.840 --> 1:00:56.919 I think a lot of the times when we would 1:00:57.000 --> 1:00:59.360 run into like for like often times we run into 1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:02.320 each other be like oh hey, hi, hi, okay, we're 1:01:02.360 --> 1:01:05.640 doing a thing and then like okay, I gotta go by, 1:01:05.880 --> 1:01:12.240 you know, and there's always like yeah, they were super 1:01:12.360 --> 1:01:18.440 into that, oh that smile. Yeah. They love fruit snacks, 1:01:18.520 --> 1:01:20.720 loved them, couldn't get enough of them. And they always 1:01:20.800 --> 1:01:23.720 helped do the dishes. Can I just say like that's 1:01:23.720 --> 1:01:27.080 a big deal. Yeah, Like no one likes doing the dishes. 1:01:27.120 --> 1:01:29.560 It's like they were always there doing the dishes. They 1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:31.720 were like oh my god, running water, hot water, like 1:01:31.760 --> 1:01:33.720 I mean like like they're like like oh my god, 1:01:33.880 --> 1:01:36.160 and just like yeah, that's that's what I want people 1:01:36.200 --> 1:01:39.400 to know. Fruit snacks and dishes. Fruit snacks have come 1:01:39.480 --> 1:01:44.480 up a lot throughout my conversations with people. Tortoquita's partner 1:01:44.680 --> 1:01:49.040 and friend also talked about how Tort tried to balance 1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:54.000 helping other people with their own self care. They were 1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:57.000 always so passionate because they want to help people so 1:01:57.040 --> 1:01:59.080 bad that they would put their all into it. And 1:02:00.120 --> 1:02:02.320 it took a toll on on them in a lot 1:02:02.320 --> 1:02:06.960 of ways. But they always were so fucking strong and 1:02:07.080 --> 1:02:11.840 took on so much more than I ever could. They 1:02:14.160 --> 1:02:17.280 they are an inspiration to us all. They also need 1:02:17.280 --> 1:02:20.400 to like disappear for like hours or days at a time, 1:02:20.480 --> 1:02:24.800 and just like rechart, they read a lot. Oh yeah, 1:02:24.840 --> 1:02:26.479 I were one of the like one of the things 1:02:26.520 --> 1:02:30.000 to be sitting in their hammock near their tent and 1:02:30.200 --> 1:02:33.520 just just we were eating and whatever it was they 1:02:33.520 --> 1:02:37.360 were doing, shipping post and whatever they could to distress. 1:02:37.480 --> 1:02:41.560 They were good about taking care of themselves, but they 1:02:41.640 --> 1:02:45.800 did get into some conundrums where they'd get stressed out 1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:48.520 and then you just see them like go off on 1:02:48.560 --> 1:02:50.520 their own and then coming back in a few days 1:02:50.560 --> 1:02:53.720 and then they're all good again. I'm gonnappy, go lucky. 1:02:54.520 --> 1:02:57.400 I've heard them described as kind, and they definitely were. 1:02:57.960 --> 1:03:00.360 I think the word that comes to mind the most 1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:05.040 is earnest. They were just like incredibly earnest. I think 1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:08.320 like the earnestness I'm talking about is like they truly 1:03:08.400 --> 1:03:11.880 lived their politics like anyone can talk about like conclusivity 1:03:11.880 --> 1:03:14.880 and love and fighting for the future, but they actually, 1:03:15.280 --> 1:03:18.080 you know, just in how they carried themselves and interacted 1:03:18.120 --> 1:03:20.880 with me. They really did that. And lots of people 1:03:21.000 --> 1:03:24.080 might be like cynical about it or maybe calum like 1:03:24.240 --> 1:03:28.120 optimistic or naive, but they actually lived. I feel like 1:03:28.720 --> 1:03:32.920 love sounds corny, but yeah, just like a love for 1:03:33.000 --> 1:03:36.200 people in nature in the forest. What was that pace 1:03:36.280 --> 1:03:41.800 we were talking about? Revolutionary death? Yes, yeah, they read 1:03:41.840 --> 1:03:44.520 that this last summer and it really had a strong 1:03:44.560 --> 1:03:49.680 impact upon them and they I think you were sharing 1:03:49.760 --> 1:03:55.880 as well that they had spoken about how they knew 1:03:55.920 --> 1:03:58.800 it was very possible that they were going to have 1:03:58.920 --> 1:04:05.960 this revolutionary a death and that back to them kind 1:04:05.960 --> 1:04:10.600 of giving their all. They were prepared and they unfortunately 1:04:10.640 --> 1:04:17.680 paid the ultimate prices. As said, as we all are 1:04:18.480 --> 1:04:23.160 sure Torto, wherever they are now, is happy to know 1:04:23.200 --> 1:04:27.000 that they gave their all all the way until the end. 1:04:27.760 --> 1:04:32.760 They were always they were a true revolutionary and gave 1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:36.720 their all to this movement. And I think now it's 1:04:36.760 --> 1:04:39.560 our job to take up that banner and carry on 1:04:39.640 --> 1:04:44.480 his name their name in multiple ways. Escalatory actions of 1:04:44.520 --> 1:04:49.240 police last December lad to the current fatal scenario, not 1:04:49.400 --> 1:04:52.800 just with the domestic terror framing as a pretext for 1:04:53.080 --> 1:04:57.560 using increased force, but also the physical destruction of treehouses 1:04:57.760 --> 1:05:02.800 resulting in people being out more vulnerable positions. They were 1:05:03.400 --> 1:05:07.200 very calculated in in their risks and they would never 1:05:07.800 --> 1:05:10.400 have had to be put in this situation if their 1:05:10.440 --> 1:05:14.400 home in the trees hadn't been destroyed. They lived in 1:05:14.720 --> 1:05:18.320 a treehouse, and the treehouse that they were really holding 1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:22.920 down and staying in was bulldozed in the mid December raids. 1:05:24.280 --> 1:05:28.560 On November twenty one, two thousand six, undercover Atlanta Police 1:05:28.560 --> 1:05:32.520 Department officers executed a no knock warrant on the home 1:05:32.680 --> 1:05:36.600 of ninety two year old Katherine Johnston in the Bankhead 1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:41.040 neighborhood of Atlanta. Police claimed to have evidence that crack 1:05:41.160 --> 1:05:44.920 cocaine was being sold out of the house. Officers in 1:05:45.040 --> 1:05:48.080 plain clothes cut off the burglar bars to Johnston's home 1:05:48.120 --> 1:05:52.000 of seventeen years and broke down her door. According to 1:05:52.000 --> 1:05:55.240 the police, the nine two year old woman shot several officers. 1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:59.560 Multiple cops were treated for a gunshot wounds. Katherine Johnston 1:05:59.760 --> 1:06:02.280 was shot and killed by the police in her own home, 1:06:02.720 --> 1:06:05.880 where police then claimed to have found marijuana thanks to 1:06:05.920 --> 1:06:08.920 an informant who said that they bought drugs at the house, 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:14.040 except every single thing the police claimed was a lie. 1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:17.800 Earlier that day, an officer had found bags of marijuana 1:06:17.840 --> 1:06:20.800 in the woods. The drugs were planted on a suspected 1:06:20.840 --> 1:06:23.960 dealer who didn't have any drugs on him. The officer 1:06:24.000 --> 1:06:27.040 threatened to arrest the suspected dealer if he didn't give 1:06:27.120 --> 1:06:30.520 up information, leading to an arrest. The man gave the 1:06:30.520 --> 1:06:33.400 police an address on a Neil Street and a fake 1:06:33.520 --> 1:06:37.120 name to buy cocaine with. The ap D claimed the 1:06:37.160 --> 1:06:40.280 police were raiding the house because an informant had bought 1:06:40.320 --> 1:06:43.880 crack at Johnston's home. It turns out all of the 1:06:43.920 --> 1:06:48.440 injuries to officers came from friendly fire. They fucked up 1:06:48.480 --> 1:06:52.520 their own guys. The cops fired a total of thirty 1:06:52.600 --> 1:06:57.240 nine shots, five or six of which hit Johnston. As 1:06:57.320 --> 1:07:00.400 a ninety two year old woman living alone, she owned 1:07:00.440 --> 1:07:05.160 a rusty revolver for self defense. As these unannounced strangers 1:07:05.240 --> 1:07:08.800 in plain clothes kicked down her door, Johnston did fire 1:07:08.920 --> 1:07:14.120 once and missed. Three police officers in Atlanta executed Katherine 1:07:14.200 --> 1:07:18.080 Johnston as they shot each other with friendly fire. To 1:07:18.160 --> 1:07:21.120 cover this up, they lied and planted evidence. They ran 1:07:21.200 --> 1:07:25.200 a smear campaign against Johnston, further victimizing the old woman 1:07:25.240 --> 1:07:28.720 that they killed and who the cops knew was innocent. 1:07:29.640 --> 1:07:32.240 The police in Atlanta have a track record of shooting 1:07:32.280 --> 1:07:36.200 each other, killing civilians, and lying about it. With that 1:07:36.400 --> 1:07:39.760 history in mind, this next part might get a little complicated, 1:07:39.880 --> 1:07:43.440 but I think it's important. A lot of the people 1:07:43.560 --> 1:07:47.400 who knew Tort have talked about how they often advocated 1:07:47.440 --> 1:07:51.000 for non violence in direct action. Many have said the 1:07:51.040 --> 1:07:54.240 sequence of events put forth by police just doesn't sound 1:07:54.240 --> 1:07:57.600 like something Tort would do, and I very much understand 1:07:57.640 --> 1:08:01.080 this reaction. Police lie all the time, especially when it 1:08:01.120 --> 1:08:04.600 comes to people the cops have killed. It is very 1:08:04.640 --> 1:08:07.800 likely that Towart really was just murdered by the cops, 1:08:08.680 --> 1:08:11.840 But I also think there's part of this reaction that's 1:08:11.920 --> 1:08:16.080 almost like a self preservation mechanism, stemming from a worry 1:08:16.200 --> 1:08:20.280 that if a certain Pandora's box gets opened, what that 1:08:20.320 --> 1:08:23.200 would mean for the movement and for the struggle against 1:08:23.320 --> 1:08:29.679 militarized police and ecological collapse. More broadly, there's also many 1:08:29.760 --> 1:08:32.440 scenarios that can lead to a brief exchange of gunfire, 1:08:32.680 --> 1:08:37.599 especially with the Georgia State patrols relative inexperience conducting raids 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:41.880 in the forest. You can spend days just thinking of 1:08:42.479 --> 1:08:45.840 various possibilities for what could have happened, as I'm sure 1:08:45.880 --> 1:08:50.080 many people in Atlanta have. The recently released body cam 1:08:50.080 --> 1:08:54.080 makes some things more clear, but also opened up many 1:08:54.120 --> 1:08:58.479 possibilities to endlessly ruminate about, especially with on the ground 1:08:58.560 --> 1:09:03.920 chatter indicating cops shot each other. This next person is 1:09:03.960 --> 1:09:06.840 one of the original Force defenders I interviewed for my 1:09:06.920 --> 1:09:13.439 previous Defend the Atlanta Forest series from last May. As 1:09:13.439 --> 1:09:20.479 their partners stated, as it's from stated, what's from about 1:09:21.479 --> 1:09:27.160 being moved by a piece called reflationary. They did not 1:09:28.000 --> 1:09:32.960 show from the idea that they could buy for the 1:09:33.040 --> 1:09:37.840 things that I believe in. They'd not show from the 1:09:37.920 --> 1:09:41.800 idea that they could be murdered for the ideas that 1:09:41.840 --> 1:09:45.439 I believe in. If I want to live, we should 1:09:45.439 --> 1:09:53.679 not dismiss the possibility and reality. People can and maybe 1:09:53.680 --> 1:09:57.360 even should, look at this world, look at the police 1:09:57.560 --> 1:10:00.839 murdering three or four people a day, of a climate 1:10:00.880 --> 1:10:04.280 catastrophe in them, and live him, of the rising tide 1:10:04.280 --> 1:10:10.000 of fascism, of the absolute fucking hell that we fucking 1:10:10.120 --> 1:10:15.960 live him and bent. This can't go on. And I'm 1:10:16.000 --> 1:10:18.880 willing to do any of them and pay any of 1:10:18.960 --> 1:10:24.519 them to make it stop. We can't dismiss if that 1:10:24.680 --> 1:10:29.720 is a very feel possible grievance, that is a very 1:10:29.760 --> 1:10:36.200 real impossible instead of mind and that if that was 1:10:36.240 --> 1:10:41.600 to rus face toward to wait us, if those came is, 1:10:42.760 --> 1:10:48.840 if that was its position, that is not learn that 1:10:49.880 --> 1:10:55.960 and I, undoubtable are not will that in our willingness 1:10:56.560 --> 1:11:01.960 to die for what we believe him. Tortuguita both privately 1:11:02.160 --> 1:11:06.280 and publicly talked about an appreciation for non violence as 1:11:06.360 --> 1:11:09.760 a long term strategy, and the flip side of that 1:11:10.000 --> 1:11:14.000 is toward has also been described to me as somebody 1:11:14.040 --> 1:11:18.800 who acts with intention, acts with great thought, and if 1:11:18.840 --> 1:11:22.000 they did decide to do something, they would have had 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:24.880 a good reason to, and they would not have chosen 1:11:24.920 --> 1:11:27.360 to do something if it had the potential to put 1:11:27.439 --> 1:11:32.439 fellow forced defenders in unnecessary danger. Based on some of 1:11:32.479 --> 1:11:36.559 my conversations. While Toward advocated for the potential of non 1:11:36.680 --> 1:11:42.160 violence as a political strategy, they itself were not solely nonviolent. 1:11:43.080 --> 1:11:46.080 The Atlanta Police Foundation have lied about every single aspect 1:11:46.120 --> 1:11:49.120 of this project's development since the start. The g b 1:11:49.240 --> 1:11:51.439 I said that there was no bodycam footage, and the 1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:55.200 police have spent the last year fine tuning their propaganda 1:11:55.280 --> 1:11:58.240 to frame the Defend the Force movement as a criminal 1:11:58.320 --> 1:12:02.439 enterprise and anyone protesting against cops City as a dangerous 1:12:02.640 --> 1:12:06.559 terrorists and threat to public safety. But there is a 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:10.960 difference between mindlessly believing the police narrative and trying to 1:12:11.240 --> 1:12:15.720 not retroactively take away somebody's agency, especially if they did 1:12:16.160 --> 1:12:18.799 make a decision that they thought was the right choice 1:12:18.880 --> 1:12:25.000 given the circumstance around the idea. I think a lot 1:12:25.040 --> 1:12:29.000 of people have I've been talking a lot about trying 1:12:29.000 --> 1:12:31.759 to you know, there there's a there's there's narrative flaws 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:33.639 and the police of story about what happened on that 1:12:33.720 --> 1:12:38.320 right There's inconsistencies. We just now got photos of the 1:12:38.360 --> 1:12:40.880 gun that their legend e legend was used, just like 1:12:40.960 --> 1:12:42.880 a couple of days ago, and it was days after 1:12:42.880 --> 1:12:45.680 the GPS and the show evidence final report. It does 1:12:45.760 --> 1:12:49.320 all look suspicious that I think. The thing that's bothered 1:12:49.360 --> 1:12:52.120 me is that I would never want to take away 1:12:52.160 --> 1:12:56.200 agency from someone who cannot speak for themselves that they 1:12:56.240 --> 1:13:00.200 may have committed if torque that cop that as a 1:13:00.280 --> 1:13:04.519 shot fired in liberation against the state that murders thousands 1:13:04.560 --> 1:13:07.759 of people and destroys millions more for the car solar system, 1:13:07.840 --> 1:13:11.760 the same state that seeks to help the South River 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:14.720 flood and to make the soil tony degrees honor and 1:13:14.760 --> 1:13:18.519 to make Atlanta's air quality go down. I would never 1:13:18.560 --> 1:13:20.800 want to take agency away from my comrade to have 1:13:20.880 --> 1:13:23.960 done that when they cannot speak for themselves. And I 1:13:24.000 --> 1:13:27.280 don't think anybody should try and make it seem like 1:13:27.439 --> 1:13:29.760 make it seem like it would have been an unjustified 1:13:30.200 --> 1:13:32.280 at a shot fired at the police and defense of 1:13:32.360 --> 1:13:35.120 the forest as a shot fired in self defense. Cop 1:13:35.160 --> 1:13:37.599 shoot each other all the time, and actually they're terrible 1:13:37.600 --> 1:13:41.080 with arms. They're just not good at their jobs. GSP. 1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:44.080 I think as a as a specific agency is UM 1:13:44.160 --> 1:13:47.240 sometimes be focused time. I'm more here. I've seen a 1:13:47.280 --> 1:13:49.040 lot of people kind of wrap up GESP and a 1:13:49.160 --> 1:13:51.240 p D and like the CAMPD as they like very 1:13:51.360 --> 1:13:56.760 like just as one agency um g SP as A 1:13:56.760 --> 1:13:59.400 as Georgia State Patrol is under the direct command of 1:13:59.400 --> 1:14:02.519 our vern and do not where a body comes as 1:14:02.560 --> 1:14:06.759 as an agency policy, UM they were the governor's star trippers. 1:14:06.880 --> 1:14:11.040 When he wants something done violently and without accountability, that 1:14:11.200 --> 1:14:15.479 is who he sends. And you know my reaction all 1:14:15.479 --> 1:14:19.880 of this, whether or not what the events transpired, is 1:14:19.920 --> 1:14:22.840 that our comrade is that our comrade was murdered by 1:14:22.840 --> 1:14:26.839 the state, whether or not they allegedly fired on an officer. 1:14:26.960 --> 1:14:29.320 I think the solarity and rage that people should show 1:14:29.400 --> 1:14:32.240 should be the same either if there were to come 1:14:32.240 --> 1:14:37.000 out that there was in fact shot, I would be 1:14:37.040 --> 1:14:40.879 so disheartened if people turned their back on our comrade, 1:14:40.880 --> 1:14:43.160 who was slamed by the police for when I see 1:14:43.200 --> 1:14:46.920 is an act of self defense. With all of the 1:14:47.080 --> 1:14:51.000 unknown around what happened the day of the shooting, what 1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:53.760 we do know for sure, I've heard boiled down to 1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:59.360 two simple points. Tort was killed defending the forest and 1:14:59.439 --> 1:15:05.960 they die doing what it loved. The first event type 1:15:05.960 --> 1:15:09.040 thing I went to in Atlanta was a noised demo 1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:13.160 outside the Cab County Jail Thursday night for the seven 1:15:13.200 --> 1:15:16.720 people arrested as a part of the deadly raid, all 1:15:16.760 --> 1:15:19.760 seven of whom are now facing domestic terrorism charges for 1:15:19.800 --> 1:15:25.559 being in the forest. The next day, Friday, there was 1:15:25.680 --> 1:15:30.360 a large public vigil in Wolani People's Park. Last time 1:15:30.400 --> 1:15:32.960 I was there, it was for the Muskogee Creek Summit 1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:36.920 near the end of last spring. It was sunny. I 1:15:37.000 --> 1:15:41.160 was hanging out in the gazebo listening to ecological presentations. 1:15:41.520 --> 1:15:44.360 There was a large tent kitchen in the grass, and 1:15:44.400 --> 1:15:46.599 I got to sit around a table and eat food 1:15:46.600 --> 1:15:50.719 with people. When I arrived Friday evening for the vigil, 1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:53.880 the first thing I saw was the destroyed remains of 1:15:53.920 --> 1:15:57.600 the gazebo, almost on display by the entrance of the 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:01.360 torn up parking lot. It was is such a clear 1:16:01.479 --> 1:16:05.320 visual indicator for how things have changed since the start 1:16:05.360 --> 1:16:09.200 of last summer. Near the tree line, a few hundred 1:16:09.280 --> 1:16:13.720 people were gathered around a sort of outdoor shrine, a 1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:23.760 few large stone slabs, overturned candles, flowers, forest plants, little turtles, pictures, art, cigarettes, 1:16:23.800 --> 1:16:29.439 and yes fruit snacks forming an orange glowing mound. People 1:16:29.520 --> 1:16:33.559 gathered and shared memories of Tortuguita. Many spoke of its 1:16:33.640 --> 1:16:37.519 kindness and solidarity with struggles across the South, from the 1:16:37.560 --> 1:16:41.400 defense of drag shows in Tennessee to mutual aid work 1:16:41.439 --> 1:16:44.879 in Florida, where they helped build housing in low income 1:16:44.920 --> 1:16:51.040 communities hit hardest by hurricanes. I feel like Tortuguita's compassion 1:16:51.320 --> 1:16:55.479 was something that really shifted the culture in the forest 1:16:55.800 --> 1:16:58.360 and touched all of the lives of the people that 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:03.920 they met. Um. They lived what they believed, which is 1:17:03.960 --> 1:17:08.480 something that I hope we can all be inspired by. UM. 1:17:08.520 --> 1:17:11.280 There are so many stories of people who were just 1:17:11.400 --> 1:17:14.120 mentioning to Tort like, oh, I'm in this situation, or 1:17:14.160 --> 1:17:17.480 this happened to my friend, and they would just immediately 1:17:17.520 --> 1:17:19.960 be thinking of ways that community could help them or 1:17:19.960 --> 1:17:22.519 that they could help them. And someone just shared a 1:17:22.560 --> 1:17:24.800 story with me that the last time that they saw TOWRT, 1:17:25.520 --> 1:17:29.599 they were telling them about how uh the on housed 1:17:29.640 --> 1:17:33.200 folks in their community. We're getting their tents and sleeping 1:17:33.240 --> 1:17:36.639 bags like swept and then tort gave them two hundred 1:17:36.720 --> 1:17:40.040 dollars to UM like replace the sleeping bags and tents. 1:17:40.439 --> 1:17:42.320 And I feel like they were just they had such 1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:45.680 a sense of kinship with people, even people that they 1:17:45.760 --> 1:17:50.080 didn't know, they were so connected to like the ways 1:17:50.160 --> 1:17:54.120 that we are all a part of this web of life, UM, 1:17:54.160 --> 1:17:59.200 and so committed to living in a way that can 1:17:59.280 --> 1:18:03.479 bring us all into a better community with each other, 1:18:03.560 --> 1:18:06.000 whether it be us and our fellow human beings or 1:18:06.080 --> 1:18:09.639 us in our forests, UM. And they loved these woods, 1:18:10.160 --> 1:18:13.000 and I feel like the fact that these woods were 1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:16.080 where they departed from this realm into the next just 1:18:16.200 --> 1:18:19.040 makes it that much more important that we protect them 1:18:19.080 --> 1:18:22.800 and that we make sure that this forest remains intact UM. 1:18:22.840 --> 1:18:24.639 I know that that's what Tort would have wanted, That's 1:18:24.640 --> 1:18:28.160 what they died doing. And I think that in all 1:18:28.200 --> 1:18:32.360 of the chaos and desperation and devastation that this loss 1:18:32.439 --> 1:18:34.920 is bringing our community, I think that one of the 1:18:35.000 --> 1:18:38.720 things that has been keeping me going is remembering the 1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:42.240 love that Tort had for people and for all living 1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:46.720 beings and just feeling really connected to their compassion UM. 1:18:46.800 --> 1:18:49.240 And I hope that that's something I know that that's 1:18:49.280 --> 1:18:52.360 something that is touching has touched all of us, and 1:18:52.400 --> 1:18:55.200 the ripples of it are continuing. The love that Tort 1:18:55.280 --> 1:18:57.760 brought to this world is still here and it is 1:18:57.800 --> 1:19:01.080 continuing to grow. So I think that they're I think 1:19:01.080 --> 1:19:02.880 that they're here with us, and I think that they 1:19:02.920 --> 1:19:06.680 always will be because they brought so much joy and 1:19:06.720 --> 1:19:10.160 goodness and love into this world, and that's something that 1:19:10.280 --> 1:19:14.920 never goes away, it only grows. I've gotten permission from 1:19:14.960 --> 1:19:17.439 a few of the people that spoke that night to 1:19:17.640 --> 1:19:21.559 share some of their stories of Tortuguita. One of the 1:19:21.760 --> 1:19:24.839 small things that stuck with me was how someone described 1:19:24.920 --> 1:19:29.680 Tort as possessing a playful, rebellious energy. Good Tort and 1:19:29.720 --> 1:19:34.240 I watched this UH yugoslav film together called My Father 1:19:34.320 --> 1:19:40.320 is the Socialist Lock, which was this joyful Yugoslavian film 1:19:40.360 --> 1:19:43.400 from the eighties about the transition after World War Two 1:19:43.400 --> 1:19:47.640 and Yugoslavia to autonomous self rule and breaking apart with 1:19:47.680 --> 1:19:56.280 the Soviet sphere. And in it UH, early on in 1:19:56.280 --> 1:20:00.559 the film, they're they're changing their social customs, adopted a 1:20:00.560 --> 1:20:06.360 new way of greeting each other in Yugoslavia where they 1:20:06.400 --> 1:20:12.760 they say good morning, death to fascism. And from that time, 1:20:13.880 --> 1:20:19.919 when I would see towards always they would that's the fascism, comrade, 1:20:20.720 --> 1:20:28.719 that's the fascism, and um toward towards. When I first 1:20:28.720 --> 1:20:33.960 met them, invited me to teach Aikido in the forest, 1:20:35.640 --> 1:20:37.680 which is called it's a martial art, that's called the 1:20:37.760 --> 1:20:42.360 art of peace. And so while we train as warriors, 1:20:43.360 --> 1:20:49.200 we train as peaceful warriors. But as many people have said, 1:20:49.240 --> 1:20:52.680 we for instance, did defenses of drag shows in Tennessee 1:20:52.880 --> 1:20:55.960 from assemblies of Nazis and proud boys who showed up 1:20:55.960 --> 1:21:03.240 in body armor with sualt rifles and tour. It was militant, 1:21:03.360 --> 1:21:10.000 but joyful tour. It took all of the always it was. 1:21:10.240 --> 1:21:12.640 It was with the utmost gravity and yet with the 1:21:12.720 --> 1:21:20.639 utmost lightness. And you know, uh we we we as 1:21:20.680 --> 1:21:29.559 well arranged a weekend of conflict resolution training here where 1:21:29.760 --> 1:21:34.400 toward rallied and and was the one that brought you know, 1:21:34.439 --> 1:21:38.120 a half a dozen people. Was was always rallying people, 1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:42.719 brought people to the drag defense, brought people to the trainings, 1:21:42.760 --> 1:21:46.920 brought people to my i Kedo class, maybe brought two 1:21:46.960 --> 1:21:50.080 dozen different people through over the course of several dozen classes. 1:21:51.600 --> 1:21:54.920 They were a peaceful warrior and they were in my 1:21:55.000 --> 1:21:58.360 flaudney and they got shot dead. And I'd like to 1:21:59.640 --> 1:22:03.400 I'd like to lead a chance in that spirit too, 1:22:04.400 --> 1:22:09.920 honor some of torts Warrior spirit tonight. And I know 1:22:10.000 --> 1:22:20.519 one that they liked is ah Auntie Antique Capitalista. And 1:22:20.640 --> 1:22:26.639 we could start together, slow and quiet and build together 1:22:26.760 --> 1:22:33.960 a powerful voice and pierce the night Auntie Antique, Happy 1:22:34.040 --> 1:23:32.400 Talista antiph thank you. Throughout the night, many songs were 1:23:32.479 --> 1:23:38.599 sung alongside screams of rage. Tortuguita actually left a tag 1:23:38.920 --> 1:23:42.080 with a little red sharpie on the guitar being played 1:23:42.160 --> 1:23:45.639 at the vigil. It's a little doodle of a cat 1:23:45.800 --> 1:23:50.719 face next to the words all cats are beautiful. Somebody 1:23:50.840 --> 1:23:53.200 at the vigil read out a few of the messages 1:23:53.439 --> 1:23:56.720 sent in to the remember tort at ProtonMail dot com 1:23:56.960 --> 1:24:00.639 email address, many of which you can now find collected 1:24:01.080 --> 1:24:06.840 at stop cop dot city. That's stop cop period city. 1:24:08.439 --> 1:24:10.200 One of the things about tour it that was really 1:24:10.240 --> 1:24:13.479 inspirational is that they weren't just against capitalism, they weren't 1:24:13.520 --> 1:24:16.640 just against the police. They made abolition about what they 1:24:16.680 --> 1:24:20.800 were fighting for, and on the we Remember tort Uh 1:24:21.439 --> 1:24:23.439 proton mail. A lot of people have been sending in 1:24:23.560 --> 1:24:27.439 stories about how they contributed so much to each community 1:24:27.479 --> 1:24:29.640 that they were in, And I want to read this 1:24:29.760 --> 1:24:33.720 one that came in from someone in Tallahassee. Everyone in 1:24:33.800 --> 1:24:37.519 Tallahassee knew Manny. I'm not even exaggerating. They were a 1:24:37.600 --> 1:24:40.160 part of almost every single organization they could get their 1:24:40.200 --> 1:24:43.439 hands on in town. Food Not Bombs, the Plant, Live Oak, 1:24:43.560 --> 1:24:48.679 Radical Ecology, International Workers of the World, Tallahassee Community Action Committee, 1:24:48.920 --> 1:24:53.280 Free Dan Baker, Stopping HB one, etc. With every person 1:24:53.360 --> 1:24:55.439 who was lucky enough to be graced with their presence, 1:24:55.560 --> 1:24:57.880 they felt safe and free to do whatever they could 1:24:57.960 --> 1:25:01.080 for the community. They ran cold night shelter for the 1:25:01.160 --> 1:25:04.320 homeless practically on their own when the Kearney Center couldn't 1:25:04.360 --> 1:25:07.000 do it. They helped do grocery deliveries for those in 1:25:07.040 --> 1:25:09.600 the south side of town for free. They showed up 1:25:09.640 --> 1:25:12.360 to almost every single meal share the F and B hosted. 1:25:12.800 --> 1:25:14.640 And this is only a fraction of the work that 1:25:14.720 --> 1:25:18.799 they did for the Bond community here in Tallahassee and beyond. Manny, 1:25:18.960 --> 1:25:21.600 I always watched you from the periphery with awe. I 1:25:21.720 --> 1:25:24.240 always wanted to be your close friend. I wish you 1:25:24.280 --> 1:25:26.320 could have seen the vigil that we had, you would 1:25:26.360 --> 1:25:31.240 have been proud. The large overturned stone by the flowers, 1:25:31.479 --> 1:25:34.960 candles and fruit snacks at the Wolani vigil had a 1:25:35.040 --> 1:25:37.879 message written on it that I read when I returned 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:41.240 to the park a few days later. The big boulder 1:25:41.760 --> 1:25:46.400 reads erected in memory of all whose lives were lived 1:25:46.600 --> 1:25:50.400 and unjustly lost in Wolani Forest. You live on in 1:25:50.520 --> 1:25:53.760 the trees, and I remembered by the land. You will 1:25:53.800 --> 1:25:57.719 never be forgotten until every prison is empty, until every 1:25:57.800 --> 1:26:02.080 slave is free, until all of without fear, until earth 1:26:02.160 --> 1:26:06.519 has healed. Our work is not done. If it's okay, 1:26:06.560 --> 1:26:10.200 I'll share another of the message that was sent. Manny 1:26:10.320 --> 1:26:13.719 was a close friend, comrade, and above all constant fighter 1:26:13.800 --> 1:26:16.680 for working people. I knew them in Tallahassee through the 1:26:16.720 --> 1:26:20.600 IWW food not bombs and live oak radical ecology, and 1:26:20.680 --> 1:26:23.640 I will never cease to be amazed by their tireless activism, 1:26:23.760 --> 1:26:26.920 their extreme empathy, and their ability to make everyone feel 1:26:27.000 --> 1:26:30.639 welcomed in radical spaces. They died as they lived, fighting 1:26:30.720 --> 1:26:33.400 for a better world and defending the forest from destruction 1:26:33.520 --> 1:26:36.840 in the name of a fascist, militarized police force. I 1:26:36.960 --> 1:26:39.439 hope their name will not be forgotten, and that their 1:26:39.520 --> 1:26:42.360 killer is brought to justice. But more than anything, I 1:26:42.439 --> 1:26:45.400 hope the cause that they fought for is victorious. Now 1:26:45.479 --> 1:26:48.720 we mourn this great loss to the Tallahassee in Atlantic communities, 1:26:49.040 --> 1:26:51.719 but tomorrow we will fight back twice as hard against 1:26:51.800 --> 1:26:54.640 capitalism in the state, so that Tortuguita did not die 1:26:54.680 --> 1:26:59.640 in vain. This is another one. They were kind and 1:26:59.760 --> 1:27:06.439 fear They were sweet, extraordinarily funny, conscientious, tender, silly, loving 1:27:06.720 --> 1:27:08.960 and one of the most generous people I have met. 1:27:09.560 --> 1:27:13.760 And that contagious smile and laugh three exclamation points. I 1:27:13.880 --> 1:27:16.400 went to bed last night hearing their laughter in my head, 1:27:16.880 --> 1:27:20.120 loud and beautiful. They somehow were still there to add 1:27:20.200 --> 1:27:22.840 levity and joy as I screamed, cried, and choked on 1:27:22.960 --> 1:27:27.080 my own spit all night, and they killed you. You're gone, comrade. 1:27:27.320 --> 1:27:31.040 I missed you. I miss you. They had a deep 1:27:31.120 --> 1:27:34.519 understanding of solidarity and struggle. When the cops swept an 1:27:34.600 --> 1:27:38.120 encampment in my neighborhood without hesitation, they shared their forest 1:27:38.160 --> 1:27:40.720 funds to get more tents and sleeping bags, because they 1:27:40.800 --> 1:27:43.360 knew that these are not individual battles, but that these 1:27:43.439 --> 1:27:45.920 struggles are inherently tied to one another, that they are 1:27:45.960 --> 1:27:48.320 part of the same struggle. This is a lesson for 1:27:48.400 --> 1:27:51.120 the movement that must be carried forward, for them, for 1:27:51.240 --> 1:27:53.160 all of us, for the strength of the fight to 1:27:53.200 --> 1:27:55.880 stop cops City. I will miss how we greeted one 1:27:55.880 --> 1:27:58.000 another and our meager attempts to make it a thing. 1:27:58.280 --> 1:28:02.800 Death to fascism, liberation to people. One of the people 1:28:03.040 --> 1:28:08.120 playing the tortuguita tag guitar at the vigil played a 1:28:08.280 --> 1:28:12.120 version of Bella Chow and I'm just gonna read out 1:28:12.280 --> 1:28:17.200 the way that they described the song. Bella Chow means 1:28:17.400 --> 1:28:22.040 goodbye beautiful in Italian. The song was originally about an 1:28:22.080 --> 1:28:25.120 Italian partisan who goes out to fight the fascists in 1:28:25.160 --> 1:28:28.680 the mountains during World War Two. And I like to 1:28:28.760 --> 1:28:32.280 dedicate this version to somebody who laid their life down 1:28:32.439 --> 1:28:36.400 to fight against fascism, militarism, and against the expansion of 1:28:36.479 --> 1:28:41.000 the police, and against the destruction of nature. Somebody who 1:28:41.080 --> 1:28:44.160 lifted up all of the people they were around, knew 1:28:44.439 --> 1:28:47.439 so many people, was involved in so many communities, and 1:28:47.640 --> 1:28:52.720 was just so funny, so loving, so friendly, and they 1:28:52.840 --> 1:28:56.280 laid their life down for their community and to stop 1:28:56.400 --> 1:29:00.280 cops city and to stop militarism and the destruction of nature. 1:29:01.040 --> 1:29:04.240 They really believed in what they were doing, and the 1:29:04.320 --> 1:29:07.400 way we can honor them is by continuing their fight. 1:29:08.680 --> 1:29:12.519 Death to fascism. See you on the other side. The 1:29:12.680 --> 1:29:20.040 world is wicking outside my window. Bella chow bella chow 1:29:20.320 --> 1:29:25.960 bella chow chow chow drags my senses into the sunlight. 1:29:26.840 --> 1:29:32.040 For there are things that I must do. Wish me. 1:29:32.280 --> 1:29:37.759 Look now I have to leave you. Bella chow bella 1:29:37.960 --> 1:29:43.080 chow bella chow chow chow with my friends. Now in 1:29:43.280 --> 1:29:49.519 the forest, We're gonna shake the gates off how and 1:29:49.760 --> 1:29:54.040 we will tell them you. We will tell them your 1:29:54.160 --> 1:29:58.880 bellow chow bella chow bella chow chow chow, that we 1:29:59.160 --> 1:30:04.680 Lonnie's not for the franchise in which the bastards drop 1:30:05.040 --> 1:30:10.400 down dead. Next time you see me, I may be smiling. 1:30:11.320 --> 1:30:16.040 Obell a child, bella chow bella chowd chow shall I'll 1:30:16.080 --> 1:30:20.760 be in prison or on the TV. I'll say, the 1:30:21.080 --> 1:30:34.360 forest called me. The world is wickham I sign my window, 1:30:35.280 --> 1:30:39.080 bella child, bela child, bella chow chow child, try my 1:30:39.240 --> 1:30:44.280 senses into the sunlight for their things that I must do. 1:30:45.479 --> 1:30:49.639 Wish me now I have to leave you. Obella child, 1:30:49.760 --> 1:30:54.040 bella child, bella chow chow chowd my French that in 1:30:54.200 --> 1:30:58.800 the forest we're gonna shake the gate of Hell and 1:30:59.000 --> 1:31:02.160 we will tell her, Yeah, we will tell him a 1:31:02.360 --> 1:31:06.000 bella chow, bella chow, bella chow chow chow, that we 1:31:06.160 --> 1:31:11.320 loes not for the franchise, which the bastard's drop done dead. 1:31:12.120 --> 1:31:17.240 Next time you see me, I may be smiling, Belichi belichower, 1:31:17.320 --> 1:31:20.760 bella chow chow chow. I'll be in prison or on 1:31:20.840 --> 1:31:49.920 the TV. I'll say, the forest called me here, the 1:31:50.080 --> 1:31:54.519 world is waken. I'll sign my window a Belichi bella chower, 1:31:54.600 --> 1:31:58.320 bella chow chow chow. Dry my senses into the sunlight. 1:31:58.840 --> 1:32:04.200 For their things I must do. I gotta leave you, 1:32:04.720 --> 1:32:07.960 oh bella chow bella chow, bella chow chow chow with 1:32:08.080 --> 1:32:11.800 my friends. Now in the forest we're gonna shake the 1:32:12.080 --> 1:32:16.960 gates off Hell, and we will tell him. We will 1:32:17.080 --> 1:32:22.920 tell them bella chow, bella chow, bella chow chow chow, 1:32:23.280 --> 1:32:28.120 that we Lonnie's not for the franchise, and wish the 1:32:28.400 --> 1:32:34.680 bastards dropped dune down. Next time you see me, I 1:32:34.880 --> 1:32:41.200 might be smiling. Bella chow bella chow bella chow chow chow. 1:32:41.360 --> 1:32:46.120 I'll be in prison or on the TV. I'll say, 1:32:46.200 --> 1:32:51.200 the forest called me here. Next time you see me, 1:32:52.320 --> 1:32:57.639 I may be smiling, bella chow bella chow bella chow 1:32:57.880 --> 1:33:02.000 chow chow. I'll be in prison, or on the TV, 1:33:03.080 --> 1:33:34.040 I'll say the fest called me here. The few days 1:33:34.160 --> 1:33:38.519 leading up to Saturday, January one felt like the calm 1:33:38.640 --> 1:33:41.880 before the storm. Nobody knew exactly what was going to 1:33:41.960 --> 1:33:45.000 happen at the weekend of protest in downtown Atlanta, but 1:33:45.360 --> 1:33:49.680 there was a sense that something would. Shortly after the 1:33:49.720 --> 1:33:52.960 Wednesday shooting, a flyer went out calling for a gathering 1:33:53.120 --> 1:33:57.439 at Underground Atlanta on Saturday, January one, and to wear 1:33:57.520 --> 1:34:02.000 black clothes in morning. This is it could happen here. 1:34:02.439 --> 1:34:06.320 I'm Garrison Davis, and I arrived at Underground Atlanta just 1:34:06.560 --> 1:34:11.160 a bit before five pm. The crowd was still slowly growing, 1:34:11.360 --> 1:34:13.680 and a bunch of big news cameras were filling up 1:34:13.760 --> 1:34:17.920 the central area. As more people filtered in, some who 1:34:17.960 --> 1:34:20.920 knew toward went up in front of everyone to share 1:34:20.960 --> 1:34:23.760 memories of Torte Guita and talk about the continuing fight 1:34:23.920 --> 1:34:27.679 to defend the forest. Obviously, we're all here because Toward 1:34:27.840 --> 1:34:31.200 was an amazing person and their life meant a lot. 1:34:31.640 --> 1:34:34.479 But Towards also shared something in common with all of us, 1:34:34.680 --> 1:34:37.280 and that was the values and things that they were 1:34:37.360 --> 1:34:39.519 fighting for. And all of us are fighting for a 1:34:39.560 --> 1:34:41.479 great cause and we all have it in common. But 1:34:41.600 --> 1:34:44.760 it makes us all targets. They will always target us 1:34:45.000 --> 1:34:47.519 because there they don't believe in the things that we 1:34:47.680 --> 1:34:50.960 believe in, and they will always be after us. And 1:34:51.080 --> 1:34:53.560 we all have to stand here and stay together and 1:34:53.720 --> 1:34:56.920 stay resilient, to fight for what we believe it, and 1:34:57.040 --> 1:35:03.040 never let Towards memory and go with our honors. If 1:35:03.080 --> 1:35:06.960 they would kill an innocent person like Tork, someone who 1:35:07.120 --> 1:35:11.600 loved their community, they won't stop to kill us. They 1:35:11.640 --> 1:35:15.519 will stop to kill everyone in that forest. They won't 1:35:15.560 --> 1:35:21.000 stop to kill anyone who defies them. And that's pretty 1:35:21.080 --> 1:35:28.439 much all I had to say. A few people from 1:35:28.479 --> 1:35:32.000 the Atlanta Resistance Medics of Local Street medic group dedicated 1:35:32.040 --> 1:35:35.120 to the liberation of medicine and providing medical resources for 1:35:35.280 --> 1:35:39.439 underprivileged and marginalized people, spoke about Tortuguita who was a 1:35:39.560 --> 1:35:42.560 member of their collective. If there's one thing that we 1:35:42.680 --> 1:35:45.320 want people to remember Tord for is that they were 1:35:45.400 --> 1:35:49.720 somebody who protected the people around them, who went through 1:35:49.720 --> 1:35:52.479 the training along with the rest of us to be 1:35:52.560 --> 1:35:55.800 able to provide medical resources to the people that were 1:35:55.800 --> 1:35:58.960 around them. They may not have access to those. No 1:35:59.120 --> 1:36:02.519 matter what else the new who says about Tort, they 1:36:02.600 --> 1:36:06.000 were a protector. Everything they did was out of love. 1:36:07.479 --> 1:36:10.800 Everything they did was out of hope for a better world. 1:36:12.200 --> 1:36:14.599 And I don't care what the police say, I don't 1:36:14.640 --> 1:36:17.240 care what the media says. I don't care what anybody says. 1:36:18.360 --> 1:36:21.559 Tort was out here working for a better world. They 1:36:21.640 --> 1:36:24.920 may want to smear them as an extremist. They were not. 1:36:25.200 --> 1:36:29.000 They were out here protecting their fellow people. And that's 1:36:29.040 --> 1:36:31.680 what we want everybody to remember about them, is that 1:36:31.760 --> 1:36:33.360 they were out here trying to build a better world. 1:36:33.439 --> 1:36:42.040 No matter what anybody else says. All right, I'd love 1:36:42.120 --> 1:36:46.639 y'all to gripete after me. Start do God be there, 1:36:49.320 --> 1:36:58.439 la lu Josse there, start do God there, la lu Josse. 1:36:58.720 --> 1:37:06.000 THERETO is a medic in our collective. They were a 1:37:06.080 --> 1:37:10.880 forest defender, They were a friend. They were funny, they 1:37:10.920 --> 1:37:17.720 were Kinda was constantly thinking of others. They were constantly 1:37:18.560 --> 1:37:21.879 trying to protect other people, trying to protect the forest, 1:37:22.479 --> 1:37:26.960 trying to protect everyone who was marginalized. They centered voices 1:37:27.240 --> 1:37:30.479 on the who are on the margins and brought them 1:37:30.520 --> 1:37:35.480 into the center. They recognized that our struggles are interconnected. 1:37:35.880 --> 1:37:39.439 They recognized that Cops City will never be built. They 1:37:39.640 --> 1:37:44.880 died just sending that forest. The memory of Tortuga that 1:37:44.960 --> 1:37:49.000 I keep returning to is after the police destroyed the 1:37:49.040 --> 1:37:54.840 gazebo and Wilani People's park in the parking lot, they 1:37:54.880 --> 1:37:58.439 were at a meeting and they said, yeah, so the 1:37:58.640 --> 1:38:07.360 cops think they can just drawing our morale um, they can't. Yeah. 1:38:07.760 --> 1:38:11.439 Fuita was one of the most resilient, strongest people I know. 1:38:12.600 --> 1:38:18.280 They hugged everyone. They were so kind and so giving, 1:38:19.080 --> 1:38:23.120 and even as the state tries to assassinate their character 1:38:23.320 --> 1:38:27.759 in addition to their body, they were a freedom fighter. 1:38:27.920 --> 1:38:31.719 They were a person that I was I am honored 1:38:31.760 --> 1:38:34.000 to have known that I am honored to have called 1:38:34.040 --> 1:38:39.240 a friend. About four hundred people eventually gathered around Underground Atlanta. 1:38:40.000 --> 1:38:42.320 It seemed like slightly more people than were at the 1:38:42.439 --> 1:38:46.840 vigil the previous night. Everything in modern life serves to 1:38:47.000 --> 1:38:50.160 atomize you, to make you feel like you were an individual, 1:38:50.439 --> 1:38:54.080 divorce from any sense of collective identity, divorced from any 1:38:54.200 --> 1:38:56.680 sense that you have a purpose and that there is 1:38:56.760 --> 1:38:59.160 good in the world. The fact that you're here means 1:38:59.200 --> 1:39:02.320 that you're fighting at in stat So let go of that. 1:39:02.840 --> 1:39:05.559 That is powerful. And that's why Cops City isn't going 1:39:05.600 --> 1:39:07.760 to be built. It is because we have law for 1:39:07.920 --> 1:39:11.880 ourselves than for the people around us. All right, so 1:39:12.240 --> 1:39:14.840 I'm sure all of you are fairly upset about this. 1:39:15.320 --> 1:39:18.680 I am Tort was a friend of mine. They were 1:39:18.720 --> 1:39:24.720 a friend of the community. Their death, their death will 1:39:24.840 --> 1:39:32.599 not be in vain. God City suck at all. By 1:39:32.720 --> 1:39:35.839 five thirty, about half the crowd gathered at Underground Atlanta 1:39:35.960 --> 1:39:39.000 were in Black Block, and the rest were a variety 1:39:39.040 --> 1:39:42.920 of activists, organizers, and random people who decided that it 1:39:43.040 --> 1:39:47.559 was important to be at this event. After some speeches, chants, 1:39:47.720 --> 1:39:51.080 and stories of Tort, the gathering of people turned into 1:39:51.160 --> 1:39:56.000 a march and took to the streets. March is starting 1:39:56.120 --> 1:40:02.679 just less Underground Atlanta. Around three hundred people maybe maybe more, 1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:08.160 are marching down the street. There's mix of people in 1:40:08.280 --> 1:40:11.799 block because medics here. People just kind of in regular 1:40:11.880 --> 1:40:15.639 clothes well, doing signs. There's a banner in the front 1:40:15.920 --> 1:40:29.880 that reads they can't kill us all firework crap. Banner 1:40:29.960 --> 1:40:33.600 at the front that says trees give life, police take it. 1:40:36.960 --> 1:40:39.720 After just a minute of marching down one street, the 1:40:39.840 --> 1:40:44.880 crowd suddenly stopped. Looks like the marches turning around going 1:40:44.960 --> 1:40:50.120 to the other side. Stop drop drop jarges. Some more 1:40:50.200 --> 1:40:56.720 small fireworks being launching. This guy, banners getting moved to 1:40:56.800 --> 1:41:02.400 the front. It looks like the mark is now heading 1:41:03.439 --> 1:41:08.880 north into downtown. Organizers from the Party for Socialism and 1:41:09.000 --> 1:41:12.559 Liberation attempted to take control of the march and lead 1:41:12.600 --> 1:41:15.439 the group south in the direction of the State Capitol 1:41:15.479 --> 1:41:19.120 building or possibly looping around to the CNN Center, but 1:41:19.280 --> 1:41:22.479 autonomous activists in the crowd turned to the march around 1:41:22.680 --> 1:41:26.960 and the group four hundred strong headed north. It sounds 1:41:27.000 --> 1:41:32.000 like the PSL people who were gathered at the underground 1:41:32.200 --> 1:41:34.160 tried to tried to leave the march in one direction, 1:41:34.479 --> 1:41:36.720 and everyone was like, no, we don't want to go 1:41:36.920 --> 1:41:39.320 that way. Uh the if you have some people are 1:41:39.320 --> 1:41:42.639 wannn to leave. Everyone into like the Federal Building section 1:41:42.680 --> 1:41:46.840 of downtown going south, and very quickly they turned around. 1:41:47.000 --> 1:41:49.080 Well other other people turned around, was like, no, we're 1:41:49.080 --> 1:42:06.040 not going that way. They're taking it right down Peach 1:42:06.120 --> 1:42:14.559 Tree heading heading north into downtown, right beside the Coca 1:42:14.640 --> 1:42:21.000 Cola sign on Marietta. The march entered the Commercial District, 1:42:21.240 --> 1:42:23.840 a section of the city completely gutted out by years 1:42:23.960 --> 1:42:27.240 of the Atlanta Way neoliberal policies that we talked about 1:42:27.320 --> 1:42:31.000 in the Defend the Forest episodes from last May. The 1:42:31.120 --> 1:42:34.920 area is populated almost exclusively by business people, university students, 1:42:35.040 --> 1:42:38.639 and unhoused citizens, and was a common site for Atlanta 1:42:39.720 --> 1:42:43.639 BLM protests. Now that the march is moving, it's easier 1:42:43.680 --> 1:42:47.040 to see everyone in black, all of all, all the 1:42:47.080 --> 1:42:55.200 people of block. It's looking more just like a large, large, 1:42:55.280 --> 1:42:59.599 massive people in block. Now. I have not seen much 1:42:59.640 --> 1:43:02.840 police presence downtown yet because there's just a few few 1:43:02.880 --> 1:43:09.120 patrol cars. It's really unclear how Atlanta Police is gonna 1:43:09.160 --> 1:43:13.920 respond to this. Got some flares, a lot more of 1:43:13.960 --> 1:43:20.280 those smoke fireworks or smoke grenade things. It's not a grain, 1:43:20.400 --> 1:43:24.120 it's like a cardboard tube shooting smoke out the block. 1:43:24.280 --> 1:43:28.000 Continued to travel north. Road. Flares and fireworks lit the 1:43:28.080 --> 1:43:31.600 path in the darkening evening. Graffiti quickly sprung up on 1:43:31.680 --> 1:43:35.080 walls with phrases like R I P. Little Turtle and 1:43:35.400 --> 1:43:39.320 stop cops City the march. The march is now approaching 1:43:39.880 --> 1:43:45.920 an Atlanta Police vehicle who's trying to back up the 1:43:46.040 --> 1:43:48.640 cough just not one of the cop cop cars right 1:43:48.680 --> 1:43:50.040 in the middle of where the march is going to go. 1:43:50.520 --> 1:43:54.080 They're like less than a hundred feet away, just one 1:43:54.120 --> 1:43:55.920 single cop car that happens to be in the path 1:43:56.520 --> 1:43:58.320 they are. They are trying to back out of the street. 1:43:59.600 --> 1:44:03.360 The march has the tree Trees Give Life Police take 1:44:03.360 --> 1:44:07.639 it banner. It's a big cardboard cutout of a tree 1:44:08.320 --> 1:44:12.360 right behind it. Police have their lights turned on. Now 1:44:20.400 --> 1:44:25.040 looks like the cop cars turning turning around. Yeah, and 1:44:25.160 --> 1:44:37.840 the cop car is leaving rather quickly. The sun was 1:44:37.960 --> 1:44:40.519 just starting to set as the block arrived at the 1:44:40.640 --> 1:44:44.080 main goal of the night, the Atlanta Police Foundation Headquarters 1:44:44.320 --> 1:44:48.240 at one nine Peach Tree Street. They have stopped in 1:44:48.280 --> 1:44:58.120 front of Atlanta Police Foundation Headquarters. People are thrown throwing 1:44:58.200 --> 1:45:04.880 stuff at the windows doors MHM broken windows that the 1:45:04.960 --> 1:45:08.040 Atlanta Police Foundation headquarters, the people, the people funding cops 1:45:08.040 --> 1:45:22.920 City firework thrown umbrellas moved in to block local news 1:45:23.000 --> 1:45:27.839 cameras as windows shattered. Rocks emerged from backpacks and smashed 1:45:27.880 --> 1:45:30.479 into the front of the building. Hammers met the glass 1:45:30.640 --> 1:45:35.960 entrance as fireworks lit up the scene. Not the other fire, 1:45:36.160 --> 1:45:42.360 another firework at the Atlanta Police Foundation. The march is 1:45:42.439 --> 1:45:46.840 tightening up a decent bit. March is definitely tightening up. 1:45:47.840 --> 1:45:51.280 A lot of people just in block now. Shouts of 1:45:51.640 --> 1:45:56.120 b water kept the mass moving forward as bank windows 1:45:56.200 --> 1:46:05.280 received a similar pelting of rocks and hammers. People chanting 1:46:05.360 --> 1:46:07.920 to move like water. Fuel line of police cars right 1:46:07.920 --> 1:46:10.400 beside the march. I'm guessing they're gonna pull in in 1:46:10.600 --> 1:46:15.920 from pulling behind the march to Atlanta police cars right there. 1:46:19.680 --> 1:46:23.000 People hitting a Chase Bank another stuff being dragged into 1:46:23.040 --> 1:46:27.880 the street for like a pop to barricade. Chase Bank's 1:46:28.000 --> 1:46:31.880 head of Regional Investment Banking, John Richard, serves on the 1:46:31.960 --> 1:46:35.960 board of the Atlanta Police Foundation. Police officers exited the 1:46:36.000 --> 1:46:38.799 two cop cars that were trailing the march and quickly 1:46:38.960 --> 1:46:42.800 ran away from the crowd, leaving their vehicles abandoned. Corkers 1:46:42.920 --> 1:46:45.439 trying to keep track of where the police are in 1:46:45.520 --> 1:46:49.559 relation to the march, because I got some cars pulling 1:46:49.640 --> 1:46:57.560 up behind. Nope, the police car pulled up behind the 1:46:57.600 --> 1:47:08.160 march just got their windows broken. Fireworks under another firework. 1:47:09.520 --> 1:47:12.920 Another Atlanta Police police vehicle had the windows smashed. So 1:47:13.000 --> 1:47:16.560 there's two. The two that was behind the march, the 1:47:16.600 --> 1:47:19.400 two Atlanta Plice officer cars ever behind the march just 1:47:19.560 --> 1:47:23.839 got hit. Wells Fargo, one of the main cops city funders, 1:47:24.240 --> 1:47:28.000 received special love and attention from the block. The Atlanta 1:47:28.080 --> 1:47:32.519 area president for Wells Fargo, Mitch Grawl, is also on 1:47:32.640 --> 1:47:36.360 the board of trustees for the Atlanta Police Foundation. A 1:47:36.400 --> 1:47:41.720 few other banks hit around this area. Wells Fargo one 1:47:41.760 --> 1:47:44.120 of the one of the contributors to the Atlanta Police Foundations, 1:47:44.120 --> 1:47:48.280 one of their big funders and backers. A lot of 1:47:48.320 --> 1:47:53.080 the media here very very thirsty to get to get 1:47:53.160 --> 1:47:55.759 stuff of, you know, when put into people breaking windows 1:47:55.800 --> 1:47:59.040 and ship It was kind of surprising that the crowd 1:47:59.160 --> 1:48:03.360 made it this far without any real police response. Time 1:48:03.520 --> 1:48:09.000 almost stretches during these brief moments of uprising. About seven 1:48:09.040 --> 1:48:12.759 minutes after the first window shattered, Atlanta police finally arrived 1:48:12.880 --> 1:48:17.720 and made their move police are in front of in 1:48:17.840 --> 1:48:23.080 front of the march. Now please are in front of 1:48:23.080 --> 1:48:26.439 the rug march. People might be turning around. They want 1:48:26.479 --> 1:48:31.200 to do a flow like water type thing. Yeah. Multiple 1:48:31.240 --> 1:48:38.479 cop cars are approaching the march from the front. Unclear 1:48:38.520 --> 1:48:42.240 what the crowd is gonna do. Atlanta PD is now 1:48:42.520 --> 1:48:53.439 now approaching the march. They're getting closer. They're going after 1:48:53.520 --> 1:49:01.560 one of the banners, dragging somebody down, pulling something to 1:49:01.600 --> 1:49:10.320 the ground. They're chasing people. One person is being arrested. 1:49:12.120 --> 1:49:16.839 Marches splitting in two different directions. Officers started randomly tackling 1:49:16.880 --> 1:49:19.880 and arresting anyone they could get their hands on. More 1:49:19.960 --> 1:49:22.360 police arrived from the south and chased it down a 1:49:22.439 --> 1:49:26.360 small section of the march that branched off. Atlanta police 1:49:26.400 --> 1:49:30.040 coming from behind as well. So I got Atlanta police 1:49:30.080 --> 1:49:34.080 on both sides. Not many officers though, just just a 1:49:34.160 --> 1:49:42.000 few officers. It looks like the majority of march withingt 1:49:46.320 --> 1:49:58.240 JA movie dispersed, dispet dips, get please, get me more aggressive, 1:49:59.000 --> 1:50:02.040 pushing a lot of people. Footage and audio of these 1:50:02.120 --> 1:50:04.799 violent arrests were shared by the Defend the Forest account, 1:50:05.120 --> 1:50:39.120 Unicorn Riot, and myself your here. I hear screams coming 1:50:39.160 --> 1:50:43.760 from multiple directions. Large. Looks like the march kind of 1:50:43.800 --> 1:50:52.680 split in two. I've seen a lot of arrests. The 1:50:52.800 --> 1:50:56.640 individuals targeted likely committed no crime other than being in 1:50:56.720 --> 1:50:59.560 the wrong place at the wrong time. The majority of 1:50:59.600 --> 1:51:03.639 the march split away and in a different direction from 1:51:03.640 --> 1:51:07.120 the cops. So I stated where the cops were. Most 1:51:07.160 --> 1:51:10.000 of the march I was able to get away. It's 1:51:10.000 --> 1:51:15.200 by going through two different directions we have. It looks 1:51:15.280 --> 1:51:24.120 like and Atlanta p D vehicle is on fire, Atlanta 1:51:24.160 --> 1:51:29.760 p D vehicle burning in the street, burning cop car. 1:51:32.520 --> 1:51:38.479 Police with a style a r style rifles. So I 1:51:38.520 --> 1:51:40.240 feel like most of the march had to hit it 1:51:40.280 --> 1:51:44.160 on that way. It seems one of the cop cars 1:51:44.280 --> 1:51:49.040 that got smashed also spontaneously lit on fire. When the 1:51:49.080 --> 1:51:51.760 police first confronted the march, most of the block was 1:51:51.840 --> 1:51:55.320 able to peel off and disappear into the night. Affinity 1:51:55.400 --> 1:51:59.479 groups reconnected. Block was shed and protesters evacuated out of 1:51:59.560 --> 1:52:02.680 downtown as the police flooded the mile long stretch of 1:52:02.760 --> 1:52:06.839 Peachtree Street that the crowd marched on. After a firetruck 1:52:06.960 --> 1:52:09.240 put out the burning cop car, police taped off the 1:52:09.320 --> 1:52:12.120 area and as they were pushing people out. I recorded 1:52:12.160 --> 1:52:22.040 an officer saying this amazing line. Bombs or discount New 1:52:22.120 --> 1:52:26.679 Year's Eve fireworks, you choose. All In all, the actions 1:52:26.720 --> 1:52:29.519 that night only took about an hour, and crews made 1:52:29.560 --> 1:52:33.360 at home in time for dinner. Six people were arrested 1:52:33.439 --> 1:52:37.160 at the protest Saturday night. Five were tackled and pinned 1:52:37.240 --> 1:52:40.280 down as the crowd initially scattered, and one other person 1:52:40.520 --> 1:52:44.000 was chased by a cop car. Sam from the Atlantic 1:52:44.040 --> 1:52:48.160 Community Press Collective has more on that. A protester who 1:52:48.240 --> 1:52:54.679 was subsequently arrested was Witnesses state they were basically followed 1:52:54.720 --> 1:53:00.080 through the streets by an Atlanta police vehicle. Before this 1:53:00.280 --> 1:53:02.719 is say that they were hit by the same vehicle 1:53:03.320 --> 1:53:06.600 and they were the untaken to jail. So, you know, 1:53:06.680 --> 1:53:09.360 corn Ry released that video and we were able to 1:53:09.600 --> 1:53:13.559 speak with a few witnesses because, as I'm sure everyone 1:53:13.640 --> 1:53:16.960 saw on social media this weekend, the arrests were a 1:53:17.080 --> 1:53:21.800 familiar brutal familiar brutal site. Before we continue, I do 1:53:21.960 --> 1:53:25.080 want to play two short clips that were circulating the 1:53:25.240 --> 1:53:29.240 night of the protest. First is police scanner audio of 1:53:29.360 --> 1:53:34.840 the cop whose car spontaneously combusted. You want to call. Yeah, 1:53:34.840 --> 1:53:38.639 well the car I ain't able to go getting an 1:53:38.680 --> 1:53:45.559 eat longer. You know. This next one is from live 1:53:45.640 --> 1:53:48.920 news coverage of the march, and this clip became an 1:53:49.040 --> 1:53:53.760 instant meme, so they're now saying gb I suck my 1:53:53.840 --> 1:53:57.800 dick gb I is a Georgia Bureau of Investigation. Mayor 1:53:57.840 --> 1:53:59.960 Andre Dickens and the Chief of Police give a press 1:54:00.040 --> 1:54:02.760 conference hours later which gave us a look at how 1:54:02.800 --> 1:54:05.120 the state was going to try and frame the protests 1:54:05.240 --> 1:54:08.840 and acts of targeted vandalism. My message is simple to 1:54:08.920 --> 1:54:12.240 those who seek to continue this type of criminal behavior, 1:54:12.520 --> 1:54:14.960 we will find you, and we will arrest you, and 1:54:15.120 --> 1:54:19.000 you will be held accountable. We have arrested several of 1:54:19.120 --> 1:54:21.479 them this evening and Chief Sure Bob will give you 1:54:21.560 --> 1:54:24.000 the details on that. And some of them were found 1:54:24.080 --> 1:54:28.480 with explosives on them. Uh you heard that correctly, explosives 1:54:28.800 --> 1:54:32.600 and that has led to a police officers car being 1:54:33.200 --> 1:54:35.800 set on fire. During the press conference, the Chief of 1:54:35.840 --> 1:54:39.880 Police clarified that no law enforcement officers were injured as 1:54:39.880 --> 1:54:42.880 a result of the protest and neither were any bodystanders, 1:54:43.680 --> 1:54:47.320 which means the only violence against people was done by 1:54:47.360 --> 1:54:50.640 the cops who randomly tackled any protester that they could 1:54:50.680 --> 1:54:53.800 chase down. And so it doesn't take a rocket scientist 1:54:53.920 --> 1:54:56.160 or an attorney to tell you that breaking windows and 1:54:56.240 --> 1:54:59.000 setting fires not protests that just tears him and that 1:54:59.120 --> 1:55:01.480 they will be charged warningly and they will find that 1:55:01.560 --> 1:55:04.080 this police department in the partnership is equally committed to 1:55:04.200 --> 1:55:07.160 stop that activity. We already have prosecutors in the room 1:55:07.160 --> 1:55:09.720 as we speak, and we're reviewing everything. We have a 1:55:09.760 --> 1:55:12.040 lot of evidence to still go through. So even charges 1:55:12.080 --> 1:55:14.560 you see tonight, those can easily be upgraded, and they 1:55:14.640 --> 1:55:17.480 will be upgraded and appropriate. I brought up the police 1:55:17.520 --> 1:55:19.800 chief's comments to a few of the forest offenders that 1:55:19.920 --> 1:55:25.680 I spoke with after the protest on Saturday in downtown. Um, 1:55:26.240 --> 1:55:33.080 police chief Schneier bomb it's hard, I've i've i've I've 1:55:33.320 --> 1:55:38.440 read it before. On anyway, they let police chiefs said 1:55:38.480 --> 1:55:45.120 that breaking windows and setting fires as terrorism. Um, I'm 1:55:45.160 --> 1:55:48.560 curious to get everyone's thoughts on that. Sure, I think 1:55:49.200 --> 1:55:55.080 the police and doing what a lot of city governments, 1:55:55.520 --> 1:56:00.800 especially which was like things like property destruction terrorism, which 1:56:00.920 --> 1:56:04.520 like it's not and you can call whatever you want, 1:56:04.640 --> 1:56:07.440 you can call it, like property struction terrorism is a 1:56:07.560 --> 1:56:10.760 very like specific political strategy that exists. I think the 1:56:10.880 --> 1:56:13.040 right one does it a lot it and it would 1:56:13.080 --> 1:56:16.800 be worth calling that, like, you know, because defend the 1:56:16.840 --> 1:56:19.640 Forest doesn't have a body count. The police have only 1:56:19.760 --> 1:56:22.360 murdered uh an activist for Defend the Forest Rush to 1:56:22.400 --> 1:56:25.320 Find the Forest has not struck in our violently against 1:56:25.320 --> 1:56:29.920 anybody except in defense against the police. Um, you cannot 1:56:29.960 --> 1:56:33.360 do violence to property. You cannot be violent towards the police. 1:56:33.440 --> 1:56:36.120 Carra It's in the same way that Andrea Dickens is 1:56:36.200 --> 1:56:40.840 now getting on TV and claiming that, like calling fireworks explosives. 1:56:41.320 --> 1:56:45.280 It's like, yes, there are objects that explode, but this 1:56:45.480 --> 1:56:49.000 is very clearly being done in bad fifth because it is. 1:56:49.160 --> 1:56:52.600 It is it justifies. This is the same way like 1:56:52.800 --> 1:56:54.840 the d D and the FBI. There's a lot of 1:56:54.920 --> 1:56:57.360 the ship. You call something terrorism, the money just pours on, 1:56:57.640 --> 1:57:00.760 you get funding, you get justification. Do things like that, 1:57:01.680 --> 1:57:05.080 and you can arrest people in charge them with domestic terrorism. 1:57:05.200 --> 1:57:08.360 That makes continuing to move and incredibly hard. That's really 1:57:08.480 --> 1:57:14.800 dangerous implication that any act and dissidents to the state 1:57:14.840 --> 1:57:18.200 could be called domestic terrorism should really ship of everybody. 1:57:21.000 --> 1:57:23.960 It should not be allowed to stand and should be 1:57:24.000 --> 1:57:28.040 comparative against every from I talked with Peter about how 1:57:28.440 --> 1:57:32.879 if the police are viewing vandalism or destruction of inanimate 1:57:32.960 --> 1:57:36.760 objects as domestic terrorism, if breaking a window is terrorism, 1:57:37.440 --> 1:57:40.360 that makes the question what exactly is destroying a forest? 1:57:40.800 --> 1:57:44.280 That juxtaposition of what the police consider violence and like 1:57:44.880 --> 1:57:49.280 what sort of like destruction of objects is violence? To me, 1:57:49.560 --> 1:57:53.840 this demonstrates what they see like as valuable. And also 1:57:54.040 --> 1:57:57.720 this demonstrates the police state and the corporation's inability to 1:57:58.200 --> 1:58:01.480 to understand that alle nous of all things and how 1:58:01.640 --> 1:58:05.160 sacred the earth is. It shows that what they consider sacred, 1:58:05.840 --> 1:58:09.959 what they hold a sacred is property, and specifically their property. 1:58:10.920 --> 1:58:14.320 I think they fear the woods in part because it 1:58:15.080 --> 1:58:18.480 moves in ways that they can't comprehend. It moves in 1:58:19.000 --> 1:58:24.080 nonlinear ways. Cricket also had something to say on this topic, well, 1:58:24.200 --> 1:58:26.680 and and what is destroying a forest? What is destroying 1:58:26.680 --> 1:58:29.360 a person? They're more upset about the destruction of property 1:58:29.400 --> 1:58:31.560 than the destruction of a person, a whole human being 1:58:31.640 --> 1:58:34.240 who is twenty six years old. They were young, they 1:58:34.440 --> 1:58:36.600 just started and that does not seem to measure up 1:58:36.600 --> 1:58:39.480 against some glass panes that doesn't seem to register. And 1:58:39.600 --> 1:58:41.520 what about the terror they inspire in the forest, what 1:58:41.600 --> 1:58:45.600 about the I mean, obviously that these rhetorical questions when 1:58:45.600 --> 1:58:47.720 I'm preaching to the choir, but I mean, god, no, 1:58:47.960 --> 1:58:51.720 it's just it's just infuriating. There's no I long for 1:58:51.760 --> 1:58:54.320 the day when the line is not drawn at well, 1:58:54.440 --> 1:58:58.360 you can do anything except touch private property. Noah mentioned 1:58:58.440 --> 1:59:03.400 the juctaposition of broken windows being terrorism, but violent actions 1:59:03.440 --> 1:59:07.400 that actually hurt people seemingly not mattering nearly as much 1:59:07.720 --> 1:59:10.800 at least compared to a cracked window. Right, So it's 1:59:10.800 --> 1:59:12.680 a clear double standard. And in the same way that 1:59:12.800 --> 1:59:18.200 like you know, during people setting far too police precincts, 1:59:18.400 --> 1:59:21.720 was insurrection and an anarchy and all these things. But 1:59:21.840 --> 1:59:25.880 when the National Guard would shoot people it was a 1:59:26.000 --> 1:59:30.720 tragic air I justified to And when roving vigilantes would 1:59:31.040 --> 1:59:34.560 drive cars in the crowds and and play them pipe 1:59:34.600 --> 1:59:37.760 bombs protests, it does not get treated with the same 1:59:38.480 --> 1:59:42.880 levity because the powers that be can never, will, never 1:59:43.080 --> 1:59:45.760 will obviously never hold themselves the same standards that they 1:59:45.800 --> 1:59:50.000 will call us as their enemies, that the meaning of 1:59:50.080 --> 1:59:52.200 words does not matter to them. What matters as being 1:59:52.240 --> 1:59:55.520 able to get good sound bites to put on like 1:59:55.680 --> 1:59:59.360 anti for Action ship and make themselves because the city 1:59:59.360 --> 2:00:02.720 has designed that they can't back down from the prop 2:00:02.800 --> 2:00:07.960 people that they're not willing to like back down state. 2:00:08.040 --> 2:00:13.960 From the start of the movement, the police have aggressively 2:00:14.120 --> 2:00:17.960 arrested and persecuted protesters associated with the struggle to stop 2:00:18.040 --> 2:00:20.960 Cops City, starting all the way back with the first 2:00:21.120 --> 2:00:25.240 arrest of eleven peaceful protesters snatched off the sidewalk during 2:00:25.240 --> 2:00:29.400 the city council's vote to approve Cops City as corporations 2:00:29.440 --> 2:00:32.320 and the state moved to push cup Cities development forward 2:00:32.440 --> 2:00:37.000 despite all public opposition. Repression has increased dramatically over the 2:00:37.120 --> 2:00:40.920 last few months. Since December, everyone arrested in connection with 2:00:41.040 --> 2:00:44.960 the movement against Cops City has been charged with domestic terrorism. 2:00:45.880 --> 2:00:49.480 It's not a huge surprise in terms like terrorism and 2:00:49.600 --> 2:00:54.240 eco terrorism have been coming up, I mean in private 2:00:54.320 --> 2:00:57.880 conversations probably since the beginning um, but we can trace 2:00:57.960 --> 2:01:01.720 it back to at least last summer when and and 2:01:01.880 --> 2:01:05.800 some emailed emails we've obtained throughout open records requests where 2:01:06.320 --> 2:01:08.600 a city council member and the police Foundation, we're just 2:01:08.680 --> 2:01:12.600 kind of pejoratively throwing around the term terrorists in response 2:01:12.720 --> 2:01:16.480 to I think it was graffiti or something like I 2:01:16.520 --> 2:01:20.840 hope they catch these terrorists soon. The terrorists who graffiti 2:01:20.960 --> 2:01:24.040 to building. It has also shown up in a couple 2:01:24.040 --> 2:01:28.120 of different public meetings that are about the training center. 2:01:28.640 --> 2:01:32.800 You know. Committee members who are pro Public Safety Training 2:01:32.840 --> 2:01:37.120 Center anti anyone being opposed to it have also used 2:01:37.120 --> 2:01:40.840 the term eco terrorism. The dangerous escalation of protest to 2:01:40.840 --> 2:01:44.760 suppression is not limited to people engaging in pathsive resistance 2:01:44.960 --> 2:01:48.440 or direct action. Some of our our open records requests 2:01:48.480 --> 2:01:51.520 have even shown that since since last fall, for for 2:01:51.640 --> 2:01:55.480 several months now, anyone who participates in like a write 2:01:55.520 --> 2:01:59.960 in or a call in campaign, sometimes those very simple 2:02:00.080 --> 2:02:02.520 emails of hey, I don't think your company should be 2:02:02.640 --> 2:02:06.000 participating in this project will get forwarded up to the 2:02:06.080 --> 2:02:10.000 chief of police. You know, people's names, emails, just very 2:02:11.280 --> 2:02:15.760 very simple call in campaign type stuff. Um, the most 2:02:15.800 --> 2:02:19.560 monoculous stuff gets forwarded as part of you know, security alert. 2:02:20.720 --> 2:02:25.480 This is the anti democratic chilling effect in action. Politicians 2:02:25.560 --> 2:02:28.040 and police are trying to create a political climate where 2:02:28.080 --> 2:02:31.840 people are too scared to exercise their rights to protest, organize, 2:02:31.920 --> 2:02:36.560 and take action. Georgia's Republican governor, Brian Kemp has bolstered 2:02:36.680 --> 2:02:40.320 this alarming escalation of violence and repression against political speech 2:02:40.640 --> 2:02:44.440 by blaming out of state rioters and a quote network 2:02:44.520 --> 2:02:47.839 of militant activists who have committed similar acts of domestic 2:02:47.960 --> 2:02:52.080 terrorism across the country unquote, rhetoric that has been mirrored 2:02:52.200 --> 2:02:55.440 by liberal politicians in the city of Atlanta. The broad 2:02:55.520 --> 2:02:58.960 labeling of environmental and racial justice movements as quote unquote 2:02:59.040 --> 2:03:02.320 terrorism and those who get associated with such movements as 2:03:02.400 --> 2:03:06.720 domestic terrorists is an extremely dangerous precedent designed to stifle 2:03:06.760 --> 2:03:10.680 public opposition and scare anyone concerned about police militarization and 2:03:10.720 --> 2:03:14.760 climate change away from protesting. It's a crude attempt to 2:03:14.880 --> 2:03:18.520 use as powerful tools as possible to crush opposition and 2:03:18.680 --> 2:03:22.440 remove the protests from public spotlight while creating cover for 2:03:22.640 --> 2:03:26.880 intensive suppression of protest movements. Police are making an example 2:03:26.920 --> 2:03:29.240 out of people by trying to pin the actions of 2:03:29.520 --> 2:03:33.520 autonomous individuals in a decentralized movement on anyone that was 2:03:33.640 --> 2:03:37.120 unlucky enough to cross paths with the police by threatening 2:03:37.240 --> 2:03:41.040 thirty five years in prison. Let's talk a bit about 2:03:41.240 --> 2:03:44.160 the role of the domestic terrorism charges and how they 2:03:44.200 --> 2:03:47.520 are being applied, because they're not even being applied to 2:03:47.680 --> 2:03:50.320 people that are like tied to specific acts like you 2:03:50.480 --> 2:03:53.760 specifically we have evidence that you burned down and escaped 2:03:53.800 --> 2:03:56.360 like like a like a construction equipment. That's that's that's 2:03:56.360 --> 2:03:58.760 not that, that's not they're being used, not even being 2:03:58.840 --> 2:04:01.240 used for like we saw we we saw you break 2:04:01.360 --> 2:04:03.080 this window. That's not even how they're being used. Like 2:04:03.160 --> 2:04:06.120 the people restaurant Saturday, all six of them got the 2:04:06.280 --> 2:04:09.240 same exact charges. How how can all six people have 2:04:09.320 --> 2:04:13.040 done all the exact same thing, So they're obviously not 2:04:13.120 --> 2:04:15.120 being used for in the type of like factual evidence 2:04:15.160 --> 2:04:18.520 based way. It's all about like trying to turn the 2:04:18.640 --> 2:04:21.800 movement itself into a criminal association. Yeah. Yeah, a p 2:04:21.960 --> 2:04:24.920 D has even said that themselves in a public meeting 2:04:25.000 --> 2:04:27.640 that's supposed to kind of like a provide advice on 2:04:27.760 --> 2:04:30.240 like how the public wants this project built. You know. 2:04:30.360 --> 2:04:32.880 They in the December meeting, which I think took place 2:04:32.960 --> 2:04:36.640 a day after after those raids, they they bragged about 2:04:36.720 --> 2:04:40.320 pulling someone over illegally for phil for filming the police. 2:04:40.400 --> 2:04:42.800 They said they were very proud of themselves for taking 2:04:42.840 --> 2:04:46.320 that person to jail, and then they just blatantly said 2:04:46.400 --> 2:04:50.480 that anyone arrested for this in connection with this movement 2:04:50.600 --> 2:04:54.360 will get a domestic terrorism charge. That which creates an 2:04:54.400 --> 2:04:58.520 equivalency that being opposed to this project is a domestic 2:04:58.640 --> 2:05:01.200 terrorism You know, the the chief of police, Stare and 2:05:01.280 --> 2:05:05.080 sheer Bomb went before cameras on Saturday, and I think 2:05:05.360 --> 2:05:09.520 pretty much verbatim said, breaking a glass window that is terrorism. 2:05:10.160 --> 2:05:12.560 A lot of people have opinions about how to protest, right, 2:05:13.280 --> 2:05:17.800 but what people have conveyed to us is that even 2:05:17.880 --> 2:05:21.680 those who are, you know, kind of horrified by property damage, 2:05:22.360 --> 2:05:26.920 it's just not domestic terrorism. It's just not being opposed 2:05:26.960 --> 2:05:31.080 to the police, wanting the police to do something differently 2:05:32.320 --> 2:05:36.760 is not terrorism. The Atlanta Solidarity Fund said of the 2:05:36.800 --> 2:05:42.560 six people charged after Saturday's protest, quote, protest, even disobedient protest, 2:05:43.160 --> 2:05:46.640 is not terrorism. It's tragic that we're at a point 2:05:46.720 --> 2:05:49.680 where this even needs to be said, but that makes 2:05:49.760 --> 2:05:52.000 it all the more important that the public speak out 2:05:52.080 --> 2:05:55.880 against this divisive and dangerous rhetoric. We have reason to 2:05:55.960 --> 2:05:59.160 believe these activists were arrested at random during the march. 2:05:59.720 --> 2:06:03.280 All six faced the same blanket charges, They are being 2:06:03.480 --> 2:06:06.920 held responsible for committing the same crime by virtue of 2:06:07.000 --> 2:06:12.000 simply being present at a protest where property damage occurred unquote. 2:06:12.880 --> 2:06:16.200 Twenty people have been charged with felonies under Georgia's domestic 2:06:16.320 --> 2:06:21.240 terrorism laws since last December. Police affidavits have detailed the 2:06:21.680 --> 2:06:26.080 alleged acts of so called terror which include quote criminally 2:06:26.160 --> 2:06:30.160 trespassing on posted land, sleeping in a forest, sleeping in 2:06:30.200 --> 2:06:34.080 a hammock with another defendant being known members of a 2:06:34.440 --> 2:06:39.360 prison abolitionist movement unquote, and aligning themselves with defend the 2:06:39.360 --> 2:06:43.000 Atlanta forest by quote occupying a treehouse while wearing a 2:06:43.120 --> 2:06:47.400 gas mask and camouflage clothing unquote. A review of the 2:06:47.480 --> 2:06:50.880 twenty arrests showed that none of those arrested and slapped 2:06:50.920 --> 2:06:55.240 with terrorism charges are accused of seriously injuring anyone. Nine 2:06:55.320 --> 2:06:59.840 are alleged to have committed no specific illegal acts beyond Mr. 2:07:00.000 --> 2:07:04.560 Meaner trespassing. Instead, mere association with a group committed to 2:07:04.640 --> 2:07:07.840 defending the forest appears to be the foundation for declaring 2:07:07.920 --> 2:07:12.280 them terrorists. The seven people arrested during the police raid 2:07:12.360 --> 2:07:15.360 where the Georgia State Patrol shot and killed Tortuguita were 2:07:15.400 --> 2:07:19.839 given a bond amount totaling one hundred and seventeen thousand dollars. 2:07:21.000 --> 2:07:25.680 Escalating repression is taking form as egregious bail amounts for protesters, 2:07:26.200 --> 2:07:30.200 inflated charges, and as last month saw the killing of 2:07:30.240 --> 2:07:35.400 an activist. The environmental Justice attorney Stephen Donzinger said, for 2:07:35.560 --> 2:07:38.800 weeks these people were called terrorists, which is a complete 2:07:38.880 --> 2:07:42.040 misuse of the word. The police have been conditioned to 2:07:42.160 --> 2:07:45.880 believe these people are terrorists, and what do you do 2:07:46.080 --> 2:07:49.640 with terrorists in the United States? You kill them. It 2:07:49.720 --> 2:07:53.960 becomes a self fulfilling prophecy unquote. A whole bunch of 2:07:54.000 --> 2:07:56.960 bail information has got released for the six people arrested 2:07:57.120 --> 2:08:03.000 at the protest in downtown Atlanta Saturday, January twenty one, 2:08:04.680 --> 2:08:08.600 and it's pretty high. It's the highest bail for a 2:08:08.720 --> 2:08:13.480 protest that I've ever seen. Two people that are slightly 2:08:13.560 --> 2:08:17.920 more local to the area, we're granted three hundred and 2:08:18.000 --> 2:08:22.200 fifty five dollars each for their bonds set over seven 2:08:22.640 --> 2:08:26.000 thousand dollars um with ankle monitoring and a twenty four 2:08:26.080 --> 2:08:31.920 hour curfew. So that's a lot of four. Other people 2:08:31.960 --> 2:08:35.680 who are arrested were determined to be from too far 2:08:35.720 --> 2:08:38.520 out of town and deemed flight risks by the judge, 2:08:38.920 --> 2:08:41.760 and they were completely denied bond. So they're going to 2:08:41.840 --> 2:08:46.560 be held in jail and perpetuity until both further legal 2:08:46.680 --> 2:08:48.880 challenges like this is going to get you know, pushed 2:08:48.920 --> 2:08:51.800 up to a higher level judge, but who knows how 2:08:51.880 --> 2:08:54.440 long they're going to be in pre trial detention now, 2:08:55.400 --> 2:08:59.400 um for pretty pretty ridiculous charges and like this arson 2:09:00.080 --> 2:09:11.240 um riot, like felony jay walking, essentially like Protestant domestic 2:09:11.320 --> 2:09:16.000 terrorism across the board. When they're going over the bill hearing, 2:09:16.800 --> 2:09:20.040 there was there was they were talking about how like 2:09:20.800 --> 2:09:23.400 this hearing is not for going over evidence, this is 2:09:23.480 --> 2:09:28.480 this is this isn't for Actually, yeah, they're they're they're not. 2:09:28.640 --> 2:09:31.920 They're not interested in dealing with what the facts actually 2:09:32.000 --> 2:09:34.240 were because there's no evidence that any of any of 2:09:34.240 --> 2:09:37.040 the people arrested did anything wrong besides the march in 2:09:37.080 --> 2:09:40.200 the street, which has been a staple of the history 2:09:40.240 --> 2:09:45.720 of Atlanta for almost like almost a century. Um, there's 2:09:45.760 --> 2:09:48.520 no absolutely no evidence, but that that doesn't matter, and 2:09:48.600 --> 2:09:50.720 that's not really the point either. The point is that 2:09:50.920 --> 2:09:53.360 this is a brutal form of punishment and a deterrent 2:09:53.440 --> 2:09:55.800 for for other people to say that if you're going 2:09:55.840 --> 2:09:57.360 to go to a protest, if you're gonna go to 2:09:57.440 --> 2:09:59.720 a march, you don't need to do anything at all, 2:10:00.200 --> 2:10:03.760 and we'll give you bond that's that's worth almost four 2:10:03.800 --> 2:10:07.960 hundred thousand dollars per person um. Or we'll just hold 2:10:08.000 --> 2:10:12.360 you until until this case gets litigated. If you want 2:10:12.360 --> 2:10:16.960 to come from out of town to you could do nothing, 2:10:20.880 --> 2:10:25.600 and then they decided that because you're from and just 2:10:25.680 --> 2:10:36.920 happened to be. This could be eighteen months before before try. 2:10:37.080 --> 2:10:39.520 If people are wanted a right, they obviously they want 2:10:39.520 --> 2:10:41.840 people to just plead guilty and not not have go 2:10:41.960 --> 2:10:45.400 to trial, um, which is nonsense because there's no evidence. 2:10:46.000 --> 2:10:48.120 But if they does get carried all the way to trial, 2:10:48.200 --> 2:10:49.800 that could take over a year. That could be just 2:10:49.960 --> 2:10:53.680 being being held four things you clearly didn't do. But 2:10:53.840 --> 2:10:56.480 because the police and prosecutors have decided to use these 2:10:56.680 --> 2:11:00.400 intense charges as a deterrent, it's just extremely blatant, like 2:11:00.480 --> 2:11:04.280 abuse of abuse of the legal system, abuse of power. Um. 2:11:04.560 --> 2:11:08.000 But I mean it's you know, I say abuse, but 2:11:08.120 --> 2:11:09.800 like this is the way it's also designed, Like this 2:11:09.960 --> 2:11:11.920 is this is the purpose of professors, This is the 2:11:11.960 --> 2:11:14.600 purpose of police. They're doing their job as it's supposed 2:11:14.600 --> 2:11:20.040 to be. They're just like make it unfeasible for people 2:11:20.200 --> 2:11:24.200 to participate in dissidents, and to make it so any 2:11:24.480 --> 2:11:31.760 like any chance getting for people impossible, even for most people, 2:11:31.840 --> 2:11:36.000 like looking at an amount, like an impossible amount of 2:11:36.040 --> 2:11:40.120 money to come up with. It's so out of the 2:11:40.560 --> 2:11:43.000 realm of what is possible for so many, like normal 2:11:43.080 --> 2:11:46.120 everyday people who are participating in acts of profast then 2:11:46.160 --> 2:11:50.800 it's just it's just design people for as long as possible. 2:11:51.280 --> 2:11:53.720 It's not it's not even people who like this. This 2:11:53.800 --> 2:11:55.880 would be in many ways just as terrific. This is 2:11:55.960 --> 2:11:57.640 if if these charges were from people who are like 2:11:57.760 --> 2:12:01.280 in the forest UM so people like in a downtown 2:12:01.480 --> 2:12:06.440 marching like this is like dant marching. Like the most 2:12:06.480 --> 2:12:11.120 serious thing that happened was that a car spontaneously like 2:12:11.280 --> 2:12:14.800 that is it wasn't it was there's no anage that 2:12:14.840 --> 2:12:19.280 any of these people. It was even noted inside um 2:12:20.840 --> 2:12:23.080 during during these hearings that many of these people were 2:12:23.160 --> 2:12:26.680 arrested before the car he even caught fire. Like the 2:12:27.360 --> 2:12:30.120 just decided that again they were not ready to bats 2:12:30.560 --> 2:12:33.960 a kind that this was not and making sure obvious 2:12:34.040 --> 2:12:36.160 that the point of this is not too in any 2:12:36.240 --> 2:12:41.040 way treat this with any real reality or what happened, 2:12:41.080 --> 2:12:43.720 but just to make sure that we are the people 2:12:43.720 --> 2:12:48.160 are as punished as possible for any actions taken by 2:12:48.320 --> 2:12:50.440 a group that they were like intertionally, just even in 2:12:50.600 --> 2:12:55.360 the vicinity aftertown Affidavid's for the seven people arrested at 2:12:55.400 --> 2:12:58.640 the deadly police raid on January eighth, in which Tortuguita 2:12:58.720 --> 2:13:02.600 was killed, big In by alleging that the defendants were 2:13:02.680 --> 2:13:05.960 quote participating in actions as a part of the Defend 2:13:06.000 --> 2:13:08.960 the Atlanta Forest group, a group classified by the United 2:13:08.960 --> 2:13:13.200 States Department of Homeland Security as domestic violent extremists unquote, 2:13:14.040 --> 2:13:18.680 but a DHS spokesperson has responded to media inquiries by saying, quote, 2:13:19.040 --> 2:13:22.160 the Department of Homeland Security does not classify or designate 2:13:22.280 --> 2:13:27.400 any groups as domestic violent extremists unquote. The Atlanta Solidarity 2:13:27.480 --> 2:13:31.200 Fund responded to this news by saying, quote, when police 2:13:31.320 --> 2:13:35.560 brought terrorism charges against Stop Cops City protesters, they justified 2:13:35.600 --> 2:13:38.560 it by claiming that Defend the Atlanta Forest had been 2:13:38.600 --> 2:13:43.040 designated a domestic violent extremist organization. This was a lie. 2:13:43.280 --> 2:13:47.520 DHS has never designated any movement aligned organization in this way. 2:13:48.320 --> 2:13:51.960 What does this mean? It suggests that police and prosecutors 2:13:52.080 --> 2:13:55.240 have been lying, not just the public, but to judges 2:13:55.440 --> 2:13:59.800 in an effort to justify outrageous, sensational charges against activists. 2:14:00.520 --> 2:14:03.800 This cannot be tolerated in a free society. The public 2:14:03.920 --> 2:14:08.520 has a long process ahead of unraveling the tangle of lies, distortions, 2:14:08.600 --> 2:14:11.960 and cover ups that the police, prosecutors, and their private 2:14:12.000 --> 2:14:15.920 backers have woven to suppress the right to protest. We 2:14:16.000 --> 2:14:19.200 are determined to follow that threat to its end. Injustice 2:14:19.280 --> 2:14:24.360 cannot go unchallenged unquote. To date, the Atlanta Solidarity Fund 2:14:24.480 --> 2:14:27.960 has supported over sixty people arrested for protesting the proposed 2:14:28.040 --> 2:14:31.240 Cops City development, just a few days before the killing 2:14:31.240 --> 2:14:34.040 of Tortoguita. It could Happen Here released an interview with 2:14:34.120 --> 2:14:37.400 people from the Solidarity Fund and Anti Repression Committee if 2:14:37.440 --> 2:14:40.880 you want to learn more about those organizations. The Solidarity 2:14:40.920 --> 2:14:45.120 Fund is dedicated to continue supporting protesters in Atlanta, but 2:14:45.320 --> 2:14:49.080 with the unprecedented seven hundred thousand dollars bail for just 2:14:49.280 --> 2:14:52.920 two people, they need help to continue supporting activists with 2:14:53.040 --> 2:14:56.440 bail and legal counsel while they are also supporting civil 2:14:56.480 --> 2:15:00.440 litigation against unjust arrests and police violence, in including an 2:15:00.440 --> 2:15:04.800 independent investigation into the death of Tortuguita. In a statement 2:15:04.880 --> 2:15:08.600 released after the bail hearing, the Atlanta Solidarity Fund said, quote, 2:15:09.000 --> 2:15:13.040 the arrested protesters and all other future protesters targeted for 2:15:13.120 --> 2:15:18.160 political activity in Atlanta need your help. Please host fundraisers, 2:15:18.320 --> 2:15:20.760 reach out to your networks, and donate to the Atlanta 2:15:20.840 --> 2:15:24.520 Solidarity Fund. We especially encourage you to consider becoming a 2:15:24.600 --> 2:15:29.000 recurring donor. Solidarity means all of us supporting each other 2:15:29.360 --> 2:15:33.280 for the long haul, until we are all free. Unquote. 2:15:34.040 --> 2:15:37.000 If the state is successful in creating this precedent of 2:15:37.120 --> 2:15:41.360 domestic terrorism, protesters across the country could be facing similar 2:15:41.440 --> 2:15:45.720 speech chilling charges. Activists and civil rights lawyers have called 2:15:45.800 --> 2:15:49.360 for everyone to strongly reject this extreme level of repression 2:15:49.720 --> 2:15:52.600 here and now before it becomes the norm for activists 2:15:52.720 --> 2:15:56.880 in every movement. What happens here will have legal implications 2:15:57.000 --> 2:16:00.520 for the whole nation. It creates and it create it's fear, 2:16:00.600 --> 2:16:04.520 It creates a chilling effect. It was after after the 2:16:04.800 --> 2:16:09.440 December raids, a lot of folks in the community. We're really, 2:16:09.520 --> 2:16:12.640 we're really questioning what was next, And it is scary 2:16:12.880 --> 2:16:18.400 to think about, but it's been really heartening how people 2:16:18.480 --> 2:16:23.440 have seen through the bullshit. Right, Atlanta has an incredible resilience, 2:16:24.360 --> 2:16:29.080 and so does this movement, even with domestic terrorism in mind. 2:16:29.600 --> 2:16:34.440 Peter also mentioned how the increased charges have inadvertently shown 2:16:34.840 --> 2:16:39.880 just how strong the community is. After domestic terrorism charges first, 2:16:40.760 --> 2:16:44.879 uh first got laid out in December. What was people's 2:16:44.920 --> 2:16:47.960 reaction to that, Because that's a pretty substantial, like legal 2:16:48.920 --> 2:16:52.120 state repression effort. You know, you're in the woods. You 2:16:52.200 --> 2:16:54.720 hear that your friends are now getting these ridiculous charges, Like, 2:16:54.920 --> 2:16:57.880 how does that change what's on the ground. Yeah, I 2:16:58.000 --> 2:17:01.360 think the terrorism charges. Well, I'll say I was out 2:17:01.400 --> 2:17:04.920 of town when the terrorism charges happened, and hearing about 2:17:04.959 --> 2:17:07.560 those was actually what motivated me to come back to 2:17:07.640 --> 2:17:10.440 Atlanta and move back into the woods because I knew 2:17:10.480 --> 2:17:12.960 that the terrorism charges were a scare tactic to try 2:17:13.000 --> 2:17:15.640 and discourage people from participating in the Woods and the 2:17:15.720 --> 2:17:19.880 movement at large. As the repression has intensified, and especially 2:17:19.959 --> 2:17:22.880 since the terrorism charges started coming in, the resolve and 2:17:22.959 --> 2:17:26.000 the strength of this community has intensified even more, and 2:17:26.600 --> 2:17:29.120 the increased repression has shown me the strength of this 2:17:29.240 --> 2:17:32.760 community and also how deeply committed people are to being 2:17:32.800 --> 2:17:35.119 a part of this fight no matter what. You can 2:17:35.160 --> 2:17:39.880 go to at jail Underscore support on Twitter for information 2:17:40.000 --> 2:17:44.760 on how to write to incarcerated protesters in Atlanta. The 2:17:44.959 --> 2:17:48.880 terrorism charges being brought against Stop Cop City protesters stem 2:17:49.040 --> 2:17:51.920 from a seventeen law passed in Georgia in the wake 2:17:52.040 --> 2:17:56.200 of the Dylan Roof massacre. This law, allegedly created in 2:17:56.320 --> 2:17:59.200 response to a white supremacist mass shooting targeting black people, 2:17:59.840 --> 2:18:02.240 is being used for the first time as a bludgeon 2:18:02.320 --> 2:18:05.920 against anti racist protesters who are fighting against the expansion 2:18:06.040 --> 2:18:10.039 and further militarization of police facilities. And then the state 2:18:10.240 --> 2:18:12.280 is just as as a concept as a whole is 2:18:12.720 --> 2:18:15.560 is pretty much incapable of doing things for altruistic means. 2:18:16.680 --> 2:18:19.320 This is the same government that just so often uses 2:18:19.720 --> 2:18:24.800 like that completely simplifies like our issues, for example, with 2:18:25.000 --> 2:18:28.560 like foreign students in this country into just a problem 2:18:28.840 --> 2:18:31.280 to take away the abilities for the paratize people to 2:18:31.280 --> 2:18:35.360 defend themselves by oversimplifying it into a non ideological issue. 2:18:35.800 --> 2:18:38.480 And it's so like there's such a clear pattern of 2:18:39.360 --> 2:18:44.240 who is perpetrating these things it's all like the state. 2:18:44.280 --> 2:18:47.640 At any moment it can grab at power, it will 2:18:47.680 --> 2:18:51.280 do so. And that looks better sometimes because it might 2:18:51.360 --> 2:18:55.360 be like going after somebody like jelling Roof, But it 2:18:55.480 --> 2:19:00.160 gets turned around later and used by them too, you know, 2:19:00.400 --> 2:19:02.760 as must trying to defer the forest and make sure 2:19:02.879 --> 2:19:06.240 that people cannot make for doing it, for doing nothing 2:19:06.320 --> 2:19:10.600 more than asking the city to not do something that 2:19:10.720 --> 2:19:14.720 a vast majority of do not want to happen. Laws 2:19:14.840 --> 2:19:17.279 that are put into effect to stop far right violence 2:19:17.640 --> 2:19:23.120 will inevitably be used to repress left wing movements. Any 2:19:23.200 --> 2:19:25.920 expansion of state power will always come down the hardest 2:19:26.120 --> 2:19:29.640 on people who are actually pushing back on the power 2:19:29.680 --> 2:19:33.280 structures of the state, like the police. And now this 2:19:33.360 --> 2:19:36.600 domestic terrorism law is being used against force defenders for 2:19:36.840 --> 2:19:41.080 mere affiliation with stop Coops City. The way the state 2:19:41.200 --> 2:19:45.720 is using these domestic terrorism charges is relatively unprecedented within 2:19:45.840 --> 2:19:50.160 the United States, but this stuff is not completely unheard of. 2:19:50.920 --> 2:19:55.000 It's new for white Americans who are protesting. It's new 2:19:55.160 --> 2:19:58.640 in a very specific context, but it's not new for 2:19:59.000 --> 2:20:02.439 many other people who experienced state repression and have experienced 2:20:02.520 --> 2:20:06.200 state repression in other countries around the world. You know, 2:20:06.320 --> 2:20:08.240 it's it's very similar to the way that like the 2:20:08.440 --> 2:20:11.120 US would you know, we had a lot of a 2:20:11.160 --> 2:20:12.760 lot of people who are over the years from the 2:20:12.800 --> 2:20:15.320 global War on Terror, locking up thousands of people who 2:20:15.640 --> 2:20:18.520 you know, so many of them were just the U. S. 2:20:18.600 --> 2:20:20.480 Army rolls into a country and it's like all of 2:20:20.520 --> 2:20:23.800 these people are terrorists. They do not have time to 2:20:24.200 --> 2:20:27.360 litigate the facts. They are looking at people as flight 2:20:27.440 --> 2:20:31.200 rests with their evidence with unsubstantially that claims about affiliations 2:20:31.280 --> 2:20:35.240 to whatever the hell it is, and then they you know, 2:20:35.360 --> 2:20:37.880 and the most extreme examples end up detained them going 2:20:37.959 --> 2:20:41.040 Tanama for the next twenty years. Olor And you know, 2:20:41.320 --> 2:20:43.280 we're about to the connection to all of this to 2:20:43.320 --> 2:20:45.880 the idea if it's the similar ways that the idea 2:20:45.879 --> 2:20:49.840 of persecutes their poor as the Pastinian people as waging 2:20:49.879 --> 2:20:54.160 a war in the population and then taking as much 2:20:54.400 --> 2:20:57.680 like like using as much force against the people who 2:20:57.760 --> 2:21:03.039 choose to fight that state hour and then just arresting 2:21:03.160 --> 2:21:06.640 huge numbers of people for claiming that they're like affiliated 2:21:06.680 --> 2:21:09.400 with the mass or something for limtage living in the 2:21:09.480 --> 2:21:12.520 same neighborhood and just throwing the key. This is very 2:21:12.640 --> 2:21:16.040 similar to tactics that we've seen used across the rest, 2:21:16.040 --> 2:21:18.840 specifically during the globe were on terror just to lock 2:21:18.920 --> 2:21:22.400 up huge numbers of people with impunity, without the ability 2:21:22.520 --> 2:21:25.280 for people to get proper legal representation or for their 2:21:25.320 --> 2:21:27.520 ever to be a moment to litigate the facts of 2:21:27.600 --> 2:21:32.680 what happened. And it's a really troubling development to have 2:21:33.200 --> 2:21:37.400 happening here. This has been so destructive and other countries 2:21:37.520 --> 2:21:39.879 all across the world, and we should all be extremely 2:21:39.959 --> 2:21:43.640 concerned that this is happening anywhere. Um, not just that 2:21:43.720 --> 2:21:47.320 it's touched the US now, but this type of legal 2:21:47.440 --> 2:21:51.120 system should not find company anywhere on the world. One 2:21:51.160 --> 2:21:53.240 of the topics of the original It could Happen Here 2:21:53.320 --> 2:21:58.000 series was through Co's boomerang. The idea was also brought 2:21:58.080 --> 2:22:01.840 up during multiple conversations I had in Atlanta. It's about 2:22:01.879 --> 2:22:05.200 how the types of imperialist and colonialist violence that are 2:22:05.240 --> 2:22:09.000 done in other countries don't just go away, They get 2:22:09.040 --> 2:22:13.760 transported back to the homeland. This boomerang effect resulted in 2:22:13.800 --> 2:22:16.640 a whole series of colonial models being brought back to 2:22:16.720 --> 2:22:20.160 the quote unquote West so that it could endlessly practice 2:22:20.360 --> 2:22:26.200 something resembling colonialism or an internal colonialism on itself. The 2:22:26.320 --> 2:22:29.720 forces of extreme gentrification can be seen as one of 2:22:29.800 --> 2:22:33.240 these front lines. In that way, it only makes sense 2:22:33.320 --> 2:22:36.800 that this is happening in Atlanta to such an extreme degree, 2:22:37.640 --> 2:22:40.240 Like the idea of like when it comes to from 2:22:40.280 --> 2:22:50.160 post boomerang, any strategies, tactics, equipment that are used overseas 2:22:50.280 --> 2:22:59.680 in a country's colonial moorish returned to the core to 2:23:00.040 --> 2:23:03.959 subjugate their own dissidents and their own people. The best 2:23:04.040 --> 2:23:06.440 example of this in the U S was meltorized policing. 2:23:06.520 --> 2:23:08.560 COMPS City is a huge example of this. We've seen 2:23:09.120 --> 2:23:12.160 a return of weapons and equipment from the do O 2:23:12.280 --> 2:23:15.360 D to US police, just as abe we saw a 2:23:17.080 --> 2:23:19.920 murdering and his trailer by swat team using night vision 2:23:19.959 --> 2:23:22.560 goggles and equipment that looks like it came off of 2:23:22.800 --> 2:23:27.119 like army rangers. Like it is. It is a return 2:23:27.240 --> 2:23:29.640 like the tactics and the equipment and the strategy and 2:23:29.680 --> 2:23:33.200 the mindset of an occupying army come back to the 2:23:33.320 --> 2:23:35.879 center of the empire and are used to subjugate its people. 2:23:36.320 --> 2:23:39.440 And in this case, COMPS City is a huge expansion 2:23:39.480 --> 2:23:41.640 of this because of what it's designed to train people 2:23:41.680 --> 2:23:44.320 to do, which is urban combat, and even more so, 2:23:44.840 --> 2:23:47.680 the legal system that the US has used overseas to 2:23:47.840 --> 2:23:50.840 prosecute thousands of people with their evidences as a well 2:23:50.920 --> 2:23:54.680 being returned to prosecute. This is defending the forest. The 2:23:54.760 --> 2:23:57.680 man shot by Swat in a trailer last month did 2:23:57.879 --> 2:24:00.840 end up surviving. But what no is talking about is 2:24:00.959 --> 2:24:05.840 that there is no true other. There is no true awareness. 2:24:06.920 --> 2:24:10.080 This new military urbanism that seems to be necessary to 2:24:10.120 --> 2:24:16.000 sustain hyper capitalistic gentrification is providing zones of experimentation through 2:24:16.040 --> 2:24:18.720 which the state is able to try out and hone 2:24:18.760 --> 2:24:22.640 their techniques of oppression. In my conversation with Cricket, they 2:24:22.720 --> 2:24:26.199 talked about this phenomenon it comes back or it starts 2:24:26.280 --> 2:24:28.480 here and where the training ground and then the export it. 2:24:28.600 --> 2:24:31.880 I mean there, it's it's and I think you're absolutely 2:24:31.959 --> 2:24:34.240 right that there is no true other. Right like that 2:24:34.400 --> 2:24:36.360 is a construct to keep us out of solidarity with 2:24:36.480 --> 2:24:38.760 one another. That is a strategy to keep us out 2:24:38.760 --> 2:24:41.840 of alliance at the same table and demanding more. I mean, 2:24:41.920 --> 2:24:44.080 it's something that I remember, I think it was. I 2:24:44.080 --> 2:24:45.960 think it was maybe something Buddha, judge or I don't know, 2:24:46.080 --> 2:24:48.920 some other some other politician. Uh, talked about in the 2:24:49.000 --> 2:24:53.080 wake of you know, saying like military weapons should not 2:24:53.160 --> 2:24:55.880 be used against like like should not be used in 2:24:55.920 --> 2:24:59.680 our streets or something like that. It's like, okay, but 2:24:59.800 --> 2:25:02.080 the logical extension of that is that they should be 2:25:02.120 --> 2:25:07.320 in other people's streets, like those are also civilians, Like 2:25:07.440 --> 2:25:09.920 those are also people's towns and cities and homes. Like 2:25:10.040 --> 2:25:12.440 why are we deciding that it's okay for them to 2:25:12.520 --> 2:25:16.040 be there and not not here? And obviously we're not 2:25:16.120 --> 2:25:19.360 actually deciding that they're not okay to be here. Um, 2:25:19.840 --> 2:25:21.800 But I feel like even the sort of attempts to 2:25:21.840 --> 2:25:24.560 try and address the insane militarization of the police don't 2:25:24.560 --> 2:25:27.000 rely on that other as if this is not a 2:25:27.000 --> 2:25:30.039 global issue, as if this is not something that affects everyone. 2:25:30.840 --> 2:25:34.720 The Solidarity Fund has said, quote invoking terrorism is a 2:25:34.840 --> 2:25:39.039 dog whistle calling for more police violence. Ever since nine eleven, 2:25:39.280 --> 2:25:42.600 American policy has been to hunt and kill terrorists by 2:25:42.680 --> 2:25:47.320 any means. Applying this same terrorism label to activists in 2:25:47.400 --> 2:25:52.199 our communities is prompting police to approach protests as war zones, 2:25:52.760 --> 2:25:56.160 prepared to kill at any time. This can be seen 2:25:56.240 --> 2:25:59.600 in the way GSP stormed the Atlanta forest with militarized 2:25:59.600 --> 2:26:03.520 equipment and killed Tortuguita and God. I think there's also 2:26:03.600 --> 2:26:06.400 this tendency to think of the assassination of environmental activists 2:26:06.440 --> 2:26:09.000 is something that happens elsewhere, Like this is something that 2:26:09.080 --> 2:26:11.800 happens in Central America, this is something that happens in 2:26:11.840 --> 2:26:14.200 the Amazon, Like this is not something that happens in 2:26:14.240 --> 2:26:16.520 the US. And it absolutely is something that happens in 2:26:16.520 --> 2:26:19.000 the US. And I think just sort of too to 2:26:19.480 --> 2:26:21.960 the name of your podcast, right, like it happens here, 2:26:22.440 --> 2:26:25.120 it's not and it it could be any of us. 2:26:25.200 --> 2:26:28.200 I think that that's another sort of possible strategy or 2:26:28.240 --> 2:26:31.680 idea behind this, like oh, they're outside agitators, thing of 2:26:31.920 --> 2:26:34.640 trying to create this scary stranger danger and trying to 2:26:34.680 --> 2:26:37.360 make people think that the person who has murdered couldn't 2:26:37.400 --> 2:26:41.440 be them because they're from here, like oh, like I'm local, 2:26:41.560 --> 2:26:44.240 Like I wouldn't have been murdered. No, Like like no, 2:26:44.400 --> 2:26:47.640 absolutely not, Like they will murder with impunity. And it's 2:26:47.800 --> 2:26:50.920 really scary and it's really enraging. Like I I think 2:26:50.959 --> 2:26:55.960 it is both to me inspiring and because if they're 2:26:55.959 --> 2:26:58.920 going to kill no matter what, then why not cause 2:26:58.959 --> 2:27:02.560 as much good trouble as we can. On Thursday January, 2:27:03.520 --> 2:27:06.760 Governor Brian Kemp declared a state of emergency in response 2:27:06.840 --> 2:27:11.720 to protests Saturday night sparked by Torteguita's death. Under that order, 2:27:11.959 --> 2:27:15.760 one thousand National Guard troops were mobilized to quell protests 2:27:16.080 --> 2:27:19.920 and police the streets of Atlanta. Once again, I'll end 2:27:20.000 --> 2:27:24.760 with the words of Tortuguita quote, Dear comrades, we are 2:27:24.840 --> 2:27:28.240 in the trenches of the class war. The capitalists would 2:27:28.320 --> 2:27:31.000 rather see us dead or enslaved, so we must fight 2:27:31.160 --> 2:27:35.480 like hell. Billionaires are causing a mass extinction and can 2:27:35.600 --> 2:27:39.520 only be stopped by collective action. Cops city can and 2:27:39.720 --> 2:27:43.280 must be stopped, but we need more help. We need 2:27:43.360 --> 2:27:47.160 people on the front lines and robust supply networks. We 2:27:47.280 --> 2:27:51.720 need to love and support each other unquote. Now that 2:27:51.879 --> 2:27:54.480 the war is here, how are we going to fight it? 2:27:55.959 --> 2:27:58.440 In the rain on leaves, tickle lift earl is the 2:27:58.560 --> 2:28:01.080 veget to midst The melody we mimicing is the sound 2:28:01.120 --> 2:28:04.360 of wind whistling long before the safety. It's channing under 2:28:04.400 --> 2:28:07.960 the stars, camped under vorgenopy, she sang o song, and 2:28:08.080 --> 2:28:11.400 she was far silent. No virus of violets, but the 2:28:11.440 --> 2:28:14.320 fragrance of her flowers, and continued to invite us the 2:28:14.440 --> 2:28:18.359 medicine materials of vitamins and minerals and all that is essential, 2:28:18.400 --> 2:28:21.280 which just grew right beside us. And Tyson started fighting 2:28:21.360 --> 2:28:24.000 over the gifts that she provided us, scorching the very 2:28:24.120 --> 2:28:27.039 soil that all of us derived from. And when empires 2:28:27.160 --> 2:28:30.520 learning came withstand Bia, we returned to the land where 2:28:30.560 --> 2:28:33.640 our ancestors rain dance. We are all her creatures, We 2:28:33.760 --> 2:28:36.760 still bear her features, the one and only reason all 2:28:36.840 --> 2:28:39.920 living things is breathing. The city's deceive and leave. Go 2:28:40.120 --> 2:28:43.040 see the dirt. Young gonna be among the lungs of 2:28:43.120 --> 2:29:09.240 Mother Earth. Cud yeah, yeah, yeah down. Before that shop 2:29:09.400 --> 2:29:39.400 him down, there was a forest. In the early morning 2:29:39.520 --> 2:29:43.280 of January thirty one, news started to proliferate that to 2:29:43.400 --> 2:29:46.280 the City of Atlanta, the Atlanta Police Foundation and Decapp 2:29:46.360 --> 2:29:50.480 County reached a quote unquote compromise regarding the future of 2:29:50.680 --> 2:29:55.080 Cops City. Words spread that city officials in Atlanta were 2:29:55.200 --> 2:29:58.080 about to announce a major scaling back of the Cops 2:29:58.080 --> 2:30:01.840 City project. At the project size would be dramatically reduced 2:30:02.080 --> 2:30:05.600 and focused more on fire Department and First respond to resources, 2:30:06.080 --> 2:30:09.959 as opposed to the original plans for the militarized police campus. 2:30:10.959 --> 2:30:15.400 Many were skeptical about this news and saw this simply 2:30:15.520 --> 2:30:19.640 as an empty promise masquerading as a compromise in a 2:30:20.000 --> 2:30:24.560 savvy pr move, but even some who were pessimistic at 2:30:24.640 --> 2:30:27.600 least saw this as a sign that the movement is 2:30:27.680 --> 2:30:32.640 having a substantial impact. Activists rallied outside city Hall, holding 2:30:32.720 --> 2:30:36.600 stop Coops city signs and Defend the Forest banners. Some 2:30:36.800 --> 2:30:41.039 reporters were denied entry into the press conference, and protesters 2:30:41.240 --> 2:30:54.440 stood outside Mayor Andre Dickens office and chanted. At the 2:30:54.480 --> 2:30:57.600 press conference that afternoon, the Mayor of Atlanta and representatives 2:30:57.680 --> 2:31:01.439 of Decapped County announced an agreement to allow the previously 2:31:01.480 --> 2:31:05.800 announced eight five acre Copsy project to proceed as planned, 2:31:06.240 --> 2:31:10.200 with land disturbance permits to be issued. The rest of 2:31:10.280 --> 2:31:13.080 the land parcel of forest least to the police foundation, 2:31:13.320 --> 2:31:17.360 will be allegedly set for preservation, a claim that was 2:31:17.879 --> 2:31:23.120 already previously promised by officials involved with the project. De 2:31:23.240 --> 2:31:26.640 Cab County and the City of Atlanta released a memorandum 2:31:26.760 --> 2:31:30.200 of understanding for the building of the site, containing a 2:31:30.320 --> 2:31:36.360 quote statement of principles, commitments, and intentions unquote. Mayor Dickens 2:31:36.520 --> 2:31:39.400 framed the facility as an answer to demands for police 2:31:39.440 --> 2:31:45.200 training reform duringies George Floyd uprising, saying, quote, this training 2:31:45.320 --> 2:31:48.800 needs space, and that's exactly what this training center is 2:31:48.840 --> 2:31:52.720 going to offer unquote. The mayor also responded to environmental 2:31:52.760 --> 2:31:56.359 concerns by claiming the area of forest slated for destruction 2:31:56.680 --> 2:32:03.320 contains only quote invasive species, softwood, and weeds unquote. Officials 2:32:03.520 --> 2:32:07.240 said the so called compromise agreement would contain provisions for 2:32:07.400 --> 2:32:11.120 preserving parts of the South River Forest. When asked how 2:32:11.240 --> 2:32:14.640 the environment would be protected, Mary Dickens mentioned that it's 2:32:14.680 --> 2:32:18.480 a three D eighty five acre set of land. Cops 2:32:18.480 --> 2:32:22.080 City is eighty five acres. The rest is green space, 2:32:22.200 --> 2:32:24.880 and that quote the environment will be protected in that 2:32:25.120 --> 2:32:29.280 way unquote, with no indication given on how it would 2:32:29.320 --> 2:32:33.879 be protected or by whom. Among the few environmental promises 2:32:33.959 --> 2:32:38.920 are quote replacing any removed or impacted specimen trees with 2:32:39.080 --> 2:32:43.000 one hundred new hardwood plantings on the site or elsewhere, 2:32:43.760 --> 2:32:47.400 as well as one specimen tree for any invasive species 2:32:47.480 --> 2:32:51.560 tree that was removed unquote. It's unknown if they have 2:32:51.879 --> 2:32:54.959 even counted how many trees have been felled so far. 2:32:56.040 --> 2:32:59.960 Activists called this employ to hastily pushed through a seque 2:33:00.320 --> 2:33:04.160 of land disturbance permits. The most up to date site 2:33:04.200 --> 2:33:08.280 plans has the Public Safety Training Center spread out over 2:33:08.480 --> 2:33:11.760 a parcel of one and seventy one acres, with about 2:33:12.040 --> 2:33:15.960 eighty seven of those acres slated for disturbance. There is 2:33:16.160 --> 2:33:19.320 nothing in the least agreement that restricts the Police Foundation 2:33:19.680 --> 2:33:23.199 from building outside of those one hundred and seventy one acres, 2:33:23.840 --> 2:33:27.720 though they promise it will be protected green space. This 2:33:28.400 --> 2:33:31.800 compromise pr stunt is not even a new tactic. In 2:33:31.879 --> 2:33:36.400 August one, after initial protests against the project delayed the 2:33:36.440 --> 2:33:39.800 city Council voute, the Atlanta Police Foundation claimed a similar 2:33:39.840 --> 2:33:43.280 quote unquote compromise. Instead of clearing the three hundred and 2:33:43.360 --> 2:33:45.640 eighty so acres that they are leased by the City 2:33:45.680 --> 2:33:48.840 of Atlanta, they would reduce the footprint of buildings and 2:33:49.080 --> 2:33:53.560 disturbed surfaces to only ninety acres, while more of the 2:33:53.680 --> 2:33:57.520 land would be cleared and turned into turf fields, shooting ranges, 2:33:57.959 --> 2:34:03.080 and horses stables labeled vote unquote green space. And wouldn't 2:34:03.080 --> 2:34:06.280 you know that sounds almost exactly identical to this new 2:34:06.360 --> 2:34:09.800 plan for compromise unveiled at the end of last month. 2:34:10.600 --> 2:34:15.080 Upon such rhetoric and empty promises, the movement didn't falter, 2:34:15.440 --> 2:34:19.040 but continued to demand and fight for the full cancelation 2:34:19.120 --> 2:34:22.760 of the project, whether in the Wilani Forest or elsewhere. 2:34:23.720 --> 2:34:27.240 After the January thirty Feet press conference, organizers in Atlanta 2:34:27.360 --> 2:34:31.280 called for a week of solidarity actions starting February nineteen, 2:34:31.520 --> 2:34:35.960 through quote calling on all people wherever you are to 2:34:36.080 --> 2:34:39.199 take action in solidarity with the movement to Stop Cops City, 2:34:39.840 --> 2:34:44.039 protest sit in, call and email the contractors building Cops City. 2:34:44.560 --> 2:34:49.480 Every action has an impact unquote. At Stop Cops City 2:34:49.760 --> 2:34:54.280 solidarity dot org, there are guides for various actions people 2:34:54.320 --> 2:34:58.080 can take, from calling Cops City contractors or investors, to 2:34:58.360 --> 2:35:02.560 posting flyers around to own or planning direct action using 2:35:02.640 --> 2:35:06.040 the interactive target map. If you do go on any 2:35:06.160 --> 2:35:10.199 movement related website, it's strongly recommended to use a VPN 2:35:10.560 --> 2:35:15.160 and a tour compatible browser like Brave. The national spotlight 2:35:15.200 --> 2:35:18.280 on the movement has certainly increased a great deal in 2:35:18.360 --> 2:35:21.960 the past month, both with an influx of scrutiny and 2:35:22.240 --> 2:35:25.640 support from across the country. And even the world. The 2:35:25.720 --> 2:35:28.560 press collective has always had kind of a hybrid hybrid 2:35:28.680 --> 2:35:32.440 role both of reporting on the movement and researching the movement, 2:35:33.240 --> 2:35:36.959 researching the prison farm. But a lot of media outlets 2:35:37.040 --> 2:35:41.600 don't quite understand the autonomous nature of the struggle. So 2:35:41.959 --> 2:35:44.680 we have kind of found ourselves in a role of 2:35:46.520 --> 2:35:51.080 kind of liaison ng between media and the rest of 2:35:51.120 --> 2:35:54.960 the movement. But thankfully it's not just us doing it, 2:35:55.040 --> 2:35:58.920 because boys, everyone interested. All of a sudden, no one 2:35:59.080 --> 2:36:00.840 was talking about the move have been at the beginning, 2:36:00.920 --> 2:36:03.480 so we're like, all right, we'll talk about it ourselves. 2:36:03.920 --> 2:36:07.640 We've been able to use our platform to publicize a 2:36:07.680 --> 2:36:12.480 lot of solidarity events. Okay, not just share memorials and 2:36:13.280 --> 2:36:17.400 what people want others to know about torts, but you know, 2:36:17.560 --> 2:36:21.959 publicize these things across the nation and across the world. 2:36:22.680 --> 2:36:27.400 Statements and solidarity have come in from radicals in Italy, Germany, France, 2:36:27.520 --> 2:36:31.800 and Rojava. After the killing of Tortuguita, vigils happened in 2:36:31.920 --> 2:36:35.920 cities all across the United States. A wave of targeted 2:36:36.000 --> 2:36:40.280 vandalism and direct action against cops, city investors, and contractors 2:36:40.800 --> 2:36:44.959 happened across the country. In response, to towards death in Atlanta. 2:36:45.120 --> 2:36:48.240 There's a concerted effort to not seed perception of the 2:36:48.360 --> 2:36:52.920 movement to the state. People have an intentional, collaborative way 2:36:53.040 --> 2:36:57.640 to affect how the movement is seen externally. This media 2:36:57.680 --> 2:37:01.360 strategy is simply one pronged of the fight, along with 2:37:01.480 --> 2:37:06.880 the encampments, sabotage, vandalism, pressure campaigns, and canvassing. I think 2:37:06.920 --> 2:37:09.720 it's really representative of the type of people that are 2:37:09.760 --> 2:37:14.200 dedicated to the struggle in general, the way that anyone 2:37:14.240 --> 2:37:17.640 and everyone has come together to handle the influx of 2:37:17.720 --> 2:37:21.920 media requests to make smart decisions about it, to make 2:37:22.520 --> 2:37:25.440 sure that decisions are made with the consent of those involved, 2:37:25.560 --> 2:37:29.039 be it sharing the stories of people who are arrested 2:37:29.080 --> 2:37:34.000 that day, sharing the stories of towards family and towards partners, 2:37:34.640 --> 2:37:38.400 and making sure to respect their boundaries in space. Despite 2:37:38.520 --> 2:37:41.960 the diverse nature of requests, there always seems to be 2:37:42.080 --> 2:37:43.960 somebody in the movement who is able to speak on 2:37:44.120 --> 2:37:46.959 whatever aspect of the struggle is needed. You need someone 2:37:47.040 --> 2:37:51.440 who's cut a masters and environmental engineering. There's someone in 2:37:51.520 --> 2:37:53.840 the movement that can talk to you for forty five 2:37:53.879 --> 2:37:56.640 minutes about the good environmental reasons to stop Cops City. 2:37:57.280 --> 2:37:59.160 You need someone to talk for three hours about the 2:37:59.240 --> 2:38:02.920 history of the play. There's someone for that too. Um, 2:38:03.560 --> 2:38:06.560 you need someone to talk about how the project is 2:38:07.480 --> 2:38:11.400 a pretty good example of why the Black Mecca is 2:38:11.440 --> 2:38:14.160 a myth. The movement has people who can speak to 2:38:14.240 --> 2:38:17.280 that too. There's been a tremendous amount of attention paid 2:38:17.280 --> 2:38:20.080 to the movement all of a sudden, and again, the 2:38:20.120 --> 2:38:22.960 way folks have just stepped up and come together to 2:38:23.040 --> 2:38:27.360 handle it, I think speaks to the communal nature of 2:38:27.400 --> 2:38:32.080 the movement. It is dedicated to building. It's not just 2:38:32.160 --> 2:38:34.800 about saving the forest, it's about saving the forest for 2:38:34.840 --> 2:38:38.680 the community. When I spoke with Karen, the neighborhood mom 2:38:38.720 --> 2:38:43.199 who started canvassing and organizing in her community, she mentioned 2:38:43.280 --> 2:38:46.440 how even her older family, who are a long time 2:38:46.560 --> 2:38:51.200 Georgia residents, haven't totally bought the state's talking points. I 2:38:51.280 --> 2:38:54.320 can say, you know, my mom and my mother in law, 2:38:54.400 --> 2:38:56.760 and like, you know, family, they know that I care 2:38:56.840 --> 2:39:00.960 about this, and you know, their boomers. But I've been 2:39:01.040 --> 2:39:03.480 surprised how there's a lot of there's a lot of 2:39:03.560 --> 2:39:06.720 skepticism in the police narrative, which I found really interesting. 2:39:07.240 --> 2:39:09.880 You know, normally when something like this happens, it's just 2:39:09.959 --> 2:39:13.560 a hundred percent police narrative. Mayor Dickens, the day Torte 2:39:13.640 --> 2:39:18.199 died put out a pretty infamous tweet that just expressed 2:39:18.240 --> 2:39:21.680 their condolences to the family of the trooper that was injured, 2:39:21.920 --> 2:39:26.360 and not one single word about the person that died. 2:39:27.160 --> 2:39:31.080 And in most fatal incidents with police, you at least 2:39:31.120 --> 2:39:34.960 get some kind of boilerplate language about, oh, we're sorry 2:39:35.000 --> 2:39:39.080 that someone died, and a lot of the initial statements 2:39:39.800 --> 2:39:44.880 from government and large organizations just just said nothing. But 2:39:45.720 --> 2:39:51.560 the media, even local news, and pretty much every single report, 2:39:51.760 --> 2:39:54.720 there's at least a line or two, if not a 2:39:54.800 --> 2:39:58.080 pretty decent chunk of you know, whatever five PM news 2:39:58.120 --> 2:40:01.960 story it is. Let's say, protesters have questions, people have 2:40:02.160 --> 2:40:07.560 questions about towards death. And given the pretty universally negative 2:40:07.760 --> 2:40:11.920 way that local and Atlanta media in particular has covered 2:40:11.959 --> 2:40:16.440 the Defend the Force movement, the fact that even those 2:40:16.480 --> 2:40:22.120 outlets have to respond to the overwhelming amount of folks 2:40:22.160 --> 2:40:26.720 speaking out about how what happened doesn't make sense, about 2:40:26.760 --> 2:40:29.520 what kind of person toward was, about how none of 2:40:29.600 --> 2:40:32.840 this had to happen in the first place. I'd love 2:40:32.959 --> 2:40:35.480 to say that someone who pays attention to the meet, 2:40:35.520 --> 2:40:38.279 how the media covers this that I could have predicted 2:40:38.320 --> 2:40:43.200 that would happen. Three members of Congress, Rashida Talib, Corey Bush, 2:40:43.440 --> 2:40:47.360 and Senator Ed Markeys have joined in calling for an 2:40:47.400 --> 2:40:51.800 independent investigation into Tortuguita's death. Like I saw a screenshot 2:40:51.840 --> 2:40:54.920 from NBC News this morning NBC News, and like the 2:40:55.000 --> 2:40:59.200 Chiron was, protesters still have questions about towards death, like 2:40:59.320 --> 2:41:03.800 that's from this more even after after the riot, quote unquote, 2:41:03.800 --> 2:41:06.680 after the arson and property destruction, and almost like a 2:41:06.760 --> 2:41:11.039 week after the incident. I mean it was It's hard 2:41:11.080 --> 2:41:14.000 to remember now, but I think it was like almost 2:41:14.040 --> 2:41:18.000 a month after George Floyd died before folks really yeah, 2:41:18.240 --> 2:41:21.800 before it really got national attention. With when Ray Shard 2:41:21.879 --> 2:41:23.560 was killed here in Atlanta, it was a little more 2:41:23.600 --> 2:41:27.880 immediate because of because of a lot of things. During 2:41:27.920 --> 2:41:31.360 the rally at Underground Atlanta, while people were speaking in 2:41:31.480 --> 2:41:34.800 front of a dozen or so news cameras, someone talked 2:41:34.800 --> 2:41:37.200 about how there are still people in town that are 2:41:37.480 --> 2:41:40.000 just learning about Cops City and the fight to prevent 2:41:40.080 --> 2:41:43.440 it from being built. They work. I had four different 2:41:43.480 --> 2:41:47.160 conversations about the Lannie Forest in regards to everything that's 2:41:47.200 --> 2:41:50.640 going on, UM with four different people who were unaware 2:41:50.680 --> 2:41:53.360 of what was happening. UM. As big as this seems 2:41:53.480 --> 2:41:56.200 right now, a lot of people are still unaware. And 2:41:56.560 --> 2:41:58.840 as long as we keep being loud, as long as 2:41:58.920 --> 2:42:01.360 we make sure that cops they will never be fucking built. 2:42:04.160 --> 2:42:07.560 We just got to keep talking about it. UM. Maybe 2:42:07.680 --> 2:42:11.959 Dickens Ryan Mills said, you have blood on your hands, uh. City. 2:42:15.240 --> 2:42:18.680 I think we're about to really see how how the 2:42:18.840 --> 2:42:22.360 national media is going to pick up on the domestic terrorism. 2:42:22.800 --> 2:42:24.720 And frankly, the fact that they're talking to us at all, 2:42:25.080 --> 2:42:26.920 or the fact that they're talking to the movement at all, 2:42:27.680 --> 2:42:30.000 I think speaks to the strength of the movement and 2:42:30.040 --> 2:42:33.720 the simple truth of it, which is that it didn't 2:42:33.800 --> 2:42:37.200 have to die. Um. And this is a very wide 2:42:37.360 --> 2:42:40.680 ranging movement with a lot of people who have some 2:42:40.840 --> 2:42:43.360 very good reasons for being opposed to the project. And 2:42:43.440 --> 2:42:46.160 I think those reasons are so compelling that I don't 2:42:46.160 --> 2:42:48.040 want to say it's easy to see past the noise, 2:42:48.640 --> 2:42:52.760 but it's not that hard. I remember one conversation with 2:42:52.920 --> 2:42:56.600 Tort where I was like, this might just be like 2:42:56.920 --> 2:43:00.200 egotistical or something that I really think this is a 2:43:00.280 --> 2:43:04.680 lot bigger than you, you know, just a little neighborhood struggle. 2:43:05.320 --> 2:43:09.119 And yeah, we talked about We're like, yeah, no, people 2:43:09.320 --> 2:43:11.840 don't know it yet, but it's the intersection of so 2:43:11.920 --> 2:43:15.240 many things, and you know, if more people realize that, 2:43:15.520 --> 2:43:19.560 it would be huge. Um. And it's you know, really 2:43:19.640 --> 2:43:22.920 heartbreaking that I think they were they were right, Um, 2:43:23.240 --> 2:43:26.840 you know, they didn't get to see it. One of 2:43:26.959 --> 2:43:29.360 the main talking points the state has been trying to 2:43:29.640 --> 2:43:33.840 push through to the media is condemning cops, city protesters, 2:43:34.040 --> 2:43:39.400 and force defenders as outside agitators. There's a Good Crime 2:43:39.480 --> 2:43:43.400 Thing zine titled The Making of Outside Agitators that focuses 2:43:43.560 --> 2:43:47.200 on the use of the term as related to Ferguson 2:43:47.320 --> 2:43:50.560 uprising that gave birth to the modern Black Lives Matter movement. 2:43:51.400 --> 2:43:53.840 For this next section, i'll paraphrase a little bit from 2:43:53.879 --> 2:43:58.120 that zine. The state and media's invocation of the term 2:43:58.160 --> 2:44:02.960 in Atlanta has been celebrating rapidly since the raids last December, 2:44:03.560 --> 2:44:08.200 using it alongside notions of terrorism to justify the police's 2:44:08.400 --> 2:44:13.680 violent escalation of protest suppression. For example, this clip from 2:44:13.760 --> 2:44:17.959 the Cops City Community Stakeholders Advisory Committee meeting held days 2:44:18.040 --> 2:44:21.480 after the December raid that introduced the domestic terrorism charges 2:44:22.040 --> 2:44:25.040 speaking is the assistant chief for the Atlanta Police Department, 2:44:25.400 --> 2:44:27.240 and so one of the things we charged him with, 2:44:27.680 --> 2:44:32.480 to include criminal trustpath was domestic terrorism charge that we 2:44:32.600 --> 2:44:35.600 put on them. So going forward that that is one 2:44:35.640 --> 2:44:38.680 of the charges will be using because that's exactly what 2:44:38.840 --> 2:44:40.800 they are. None of those people live here. They do 2:44:40.959 --> 2:44:44.200 not have a vest interest in this property, and we 2:44:44.320 --> 2:44:47.600 show that time and time again. Um was an individual 2:44:47.680 --> 2:44:51.760 from Los Angeles, California, concerned about a training facility being 2:44:51.840 --> 2:44:54.480 built in the state of Georgia, and that is why 2:44:54.600 --> 2:44:59.039 we consider that domestic terrorism. There's a darkly prophetic sentence 2:44:59.200 --> 2:45:02.760 from that crime thing. Gazine I mentioned quote when we 2:45:02.920 --> 2:45:07.039 hear them say outside agitators, we know the authorities are 2:45:07.120 --> 2:45:11.280 getting ready to spill blood. A pretty consistent talking point 2:45:11.520 --> 2:45:17.640 by the police foundation police the state in general has 2:45:17.720 --> 2:45:20.720 been that a lot of the people they've arrested for 2:45:21.879 --> 2:45:26.360 incidents related to defend the forest have had out of 2:45:26.440 --> 2:45:30.560 state licenses, out of state addresses, and what they describe 2:45:30.600 --> 2:45:35.560 as no connection to Georgia. They have been sent here 2:45:36.040 --> 2:45:40.720 to too. Stirrup trouble. Right, Um, they aren't from here, 2:45:41.640 --> 2:45:44.520 they're just they're just here too because they don't like 2:45:44.640 --> 2:45:48.720 the cops, right, They have no they have no stake 2:45:48.760 --> 2:45:52.000 in the struggle. So there's some pretty obvious problems with that. 2:45:52.240 --> 2:45:56.320 And there's some pretty lengthy historic racism tied to the 2:45:56.440 --> 2:46:00.880 term outside agitators. Um that makes it, you know, especially 2:46:01.000 --> 2:46:04.240 hain us to to use. In the South, the term 2:46:04.280 --> 2:46:09.480 outside agitators was used to describe the Freedom Writers. So 2:46:09.760 --> 2:46:11.160 it's got a little bit, got a little bit of 2:46:11.240 --> 2:46:14.680 history there. Governor Brian Kemp declaring a state of emergency 2:46:14.879 --> 2:46:17.320 so that the National Guard can be on standby to 2:46:17.440 --> 2:46:22.920 occupy Atlanta sure seems like outside agitation. But even the 2:46:23.000 --> 2:46:26.000 Atlanta Police Department's use of the term carries with it 2:46:26.120 --> 2:46:31.880 a great deal of hypocrisy. Ap D has since really 2:46:31.959 --> 2:46:34.600 made a big deal out of stepping up its recruitment efforts, 2:46:35.080 --> 2:46:36.920 and if you go back and look at those presentations 2:46:36.959 --> 2:46:41.320 to the media to city council, they consistently talk about, oh, 2:46:41.440 --> 2:46:43.600 we went to New York for three days, we went 2:46:43.680 --> 2:46:46.840 to Miami for a week. I believe it was would 2:46:46.879 --> 2:46:51.280 have been September um, just after Darren Sheer bomb was 2:46:51.520 --> 2:46:54.400 officially installed as chief of Police, he went before the 2:46:54.480 --> 2:46:58.320 city Council and talked about how he was so proud 2:46:58.560 --> 2:47:04.200 to have personally recruited someone from Detroit per basically a 2:47:04.320 --> 2:47:07.400 part of their loan application, because they're applying for a 2:47:07.480 --> 2:47:11.080 loan to finance part of cops City. By their own 2:47:11.200 --> 2:47:15.879 numbers of recruits that will be trained at this facility 2:47:16.320 --> 2:47:19.600 will come from out of state. They are forty percent 2:47:19.800 --> 2:47:23.040 from outside the state of Georgia. Again in ap D 2:47:23.120 --> 2:47:26.840 s on statements about the facility, this facility is built 2:47:27.280 --> 2:47:31.160 to bring in people from out of state, from out 2:47:31.200 --> 2:47:35.360 of the country, even because Atlanta participates in the Georgia 2:47:35.360 --> 2:47:39.600 International Law Enforcement Exchange, which is basically an exchange program 2:47:39.760 --> 2:47:43.640 with the idea with with the Israeli military. Where we 2:47:43.760 --> 2:47:46.680 go there, they come here, we teach each other. News 2:47:46.800 --> 2:47:50.280 articles claiming that a majority of those arrested are residents 2:47:50.400 --> 2:47:53.640 from other states might sound like convinced the evidence to 2:47:53.800 --> 2:47:57.280 middle class readers, But anyone who has been poor and 2:47:57.440 --> 2:48:00.880 precarious knows that the permanent addres us you give when 2:48:00.920 --> 2:48:03.959 you're arrested may not be the same as the place 2:48:04.040 --> 2:48:07.320 you actually live. You might give a different address because 2:48:07.400 --> 2:48:10.480 you aren't sure your current housing will last because your 2:48:10.560 --> 2:48:13.040 landlord doesn't know your place has more people in it 2:48:13.120 --> 2:48:15.880 than are named on the lease, or simply because you 2:48:16.000 --> 2:48:19.480 don't want local vigilantes to know where you live. Instead, 2:48:19.640 --> 2:48:23.440 you might give a more reliable, long term address, perhaps 2:48:23.600 --> 2:48:26.400 from another state. I mean not a human level, like 2:48:27.040 --> 2:48:30.160 how many times have you moved somewhere and not changed 2:48:30.200 --> 2:48:33.880 your address? How many times have you going to the 2:48:34.000 --> 2:48:37.039 DMV sucks? Yes, going to the t m V sucks. 2:48:38.640 --> 2:48:40.560 So a lot of people don't have the privilege to 2:48:40.600 --> 2:48:41.720 be able to go to the d n B or 2:48:41.800 --> 2:48:44.240 don't have a permanent home address. A lot of people 2:48:44.400 --> 2:48:47.080 are dealing with housing instability, like there's there's so many 2:48:47.160 --> 2:48:50.760 aspects of this that makes it pretty egregious. And not 2:48:50.959 --> 2:48:55.760 only of course, is this a struggle that is deeply 2:48:55.879 --> 2:48:59.959 compelling regardless of where you call home. It just doesn't 2:49:00.040 --> 2:49:03.480 match up to like the facts of life, Like it's 2:49:03.560 --> 2:49:06.280 it's a little bit bizarre their insistence that the local 2:49:06.400 --> 2:49:10.959 populace couldn't possibly be that opposed to it, when grab 2:49:11.040 --> 2:49:15.320 any one person in the movement who's from who's from Georgia, 2:49:15.520 --> 2:49:18.680 and they know tend people who's opposed to it. That 2:49:18.800 --> 2:49:23.439 person knows ten people. And also you you have statistics 2:49:23.520 --> 2:49:29.640 like during the what's seventeen hours of public comment, seventy 2:49:29.720 --> 2:49:33.560 people who called in were opposed to it. Basically the 2:49:33.640 --> 2:49:36.120 only people who weren't were people who self identified as 2:49:36.200 --> 2:49:40.440 police officers, firefighters, and those who lived in Buckhead. And 2:49:40.560 --> 2:49:43.880 it's it's not that simple, but it's pretty clear that 2:49:44.640 --> 2:49:47.400 maybe you'd be okay with building the facility somewhere else. 2:49:48.080 --> 2:49:51.320 Maybe you're an abolitionist, maybe this, that and the other. 2:49:51.480 --> 2:49:55.600 But Atlanta doesn't want this. Atlanta doesn't want this here. 2:49:56.360 --> 2:49:59.440 Let's imagine that some of these arrestees who gave out 2:49:59.480 --> 2:50:02.960 of town addresses are in Atlanta for the very first time. 2:50:03.320 --> 2:50:07.400 Would that make them outside agitators? Maybe if the issue 2:50:07.520 --> 2:50:10.960 was specific to Atlanta alone and they had no stake 2:50:11.000 --> 2:50:14.240 in the cause, Cops City would be a place that 2:50:14.800 --> 2:50:18.800 police agencies from all around the country and world come 2:50:18.840 --> 2:50:23.640 to to train and practice urban militarism. Climate collapse and 2:50:23.879 --> 2:50:28.240 the destruction of forests is similarly a worldwide issue and 2:50:28.480 --> 2:50:33.039 one of apocalyptic magnitude. It's a false narrative in one sense, 2:50:33.160 --> 2:50:37.400 because climate change effects everybody cutting down a forest would 2:50:37.400 --> 2:50:40.680 make climate change worse like that's a very, very very 2:50:40.760 --> 2:50:44.959 obvious talking point. If if environment of protecting the environment 2:50:45.200 --> 2:50:49.720 is important to you, it is obvious that this is 2:50:50.760 --> 2:50:54.600 a very key struggle right now, especially in the context 2:50:54.640 --> 2:50:59.360 of Atlanta being and growing and also gentrifying city, and 2:51:00.720 --> 2:51:05.360 this being in a largely black and brown, middle to 2:51:05.480 --> 2:51:11.560 low income neighborhood, and this being such a vast green 2:51:11.640 --> 2:51:16.640 space in those communities that don't have the manicured Piedmont 2:51:16.720 --> 2:51:20.120 Park in their backyards. When people are suffering the same 2:51:20.200 --> 2:51:23.320 forms of oppression everywhere, it makes sense for us to 2:51:23.360 --> 2:51:27.199 come to each other's assistance. This is not outside agitation. 2:51:27.840 --> 2:51:32.359 This is solidarity. Solidarity has always been the most important 2:51:32.480 --> 2:51:35.840 tool of the oppressed. This is why authorities go to 2:51:36.120 --> 2:51:39.840 such lengths to demonize anybody who has the courage to 2:51:40.280 --> 2:51:44.640 take risks to support others. Crickets spoke at length about 2:51:45.160 --> 2:51:48.480 the outside agitator narrative that the state has been employing. 2:51:49.040 --> 2:51:50.840 I think one thing that comes to mind is something 2:51:50.920 --> 2:51:53.360 that I've heard a lot, is that the people in 2:51:53.400 --> 2:51:56.160 this movement are not from here, quote unquote, that they're 2:51:56.480 --> 2:52:00.480 outside agitators, that they're not from this community, they're you know, 2:52:00.720 --> 2:52:02.920 and and it's it seems to be very clear to 2:52:02.959 --> 2:52:05.400 be an attempt to sort of discredit what is a 2:52:05.520 --> 2:52:07.680 very clear majority of the community that does not want 2:52:07.720 --> 2:52:12.480 this forest destroyed, does not want cops city built, you know. Um. 2:52:12.600 --> 2:52:15.320 And that argument infuriates me because I mean, first of all, 2:52:15.480 --> 2:52:18.000 the U. S. Military is the biggest like outside agitator 2:52:18.080 --> 2:52:20.560 in the world. Um. And I just I find that 2:52:20.680 --> 2:52:24.280 irony sort of unbearable. And then I think there's this 2:52:24.440 --> 2:52:27.160 question we can get into questions of what does it 2:52:27.240 --> 2:52:29.640 mean to be from somewhere? And what I think is 2:52:29.680 --> 2:52:32.680 a more helpful question is how are you somewhere? How 2:52:32.720 --> 2:52:35.480 are you in relation to a place? And I I 2:52:35.560 --> 2:52:37.440 think Tort with someone who was always trying to be 2:52:37.520 --> 2:52:40.000 in the right relation with the land and in right 2:52:40.080 --> 2:52:43.000 relation with their neighbors, in right relation with the communities here. 2:52:43.480 --> 2:52:45.360 One story that I keep revisiting of them is when 2:52:45.400 --> 2:52:48.039 we were checking in uh And and people are asking them, 2:52:48.400 --> 2:52:50.760 you know, what, what do folks in the forest need? 2:52:51.320 --> 2:52:54.000 What can we get them? Do they need food? What? 2:52:54.320 --> 2:52:55.760 You know what do they need? And Toward was like, 2:52:55.840 --> 2:52:58.280 oh no, actually, you know, we have everything we need. 2:52:58.360 --> 2:53:00.680 But it would be great if people could start we 2:53:00.760 --> 2:53:02.480 could make sure they're giving food to the poor folks 2:53:02.480 --> 2:53:04.960 in their own communities, Like make sure you're giving the 2:53:04.959 --> 2:53:07.760 food to the people in your neighborhoods. Are you checking 2:53:07.840 --> 2:53:10.360 in with the un housed communities in your neighborhood like 2:53:10.480 --> 2:53:12.920 they were? Just I think, constantly seeking to be in 2:53:13.080 --> 2:53:15.720 right relation. And I think regardless of where all of 2:53:15.800 --> 2:53:17.560 us are from, if we if we can can claim 2:53:17.600 --> 2:53:19.480 to be from somewhere, I mean, arguably, if we're not 2:53:19.600 --> 2:53:23.440 Muscogee Creek, none of us is from here. Um. But 2:53:23.520 --> 2:53:25.520 I think it's a more helpful direction to think about 2:53:25.720 --> 2:53:27.840 what are we doing once we're here? How are we 2:53:27.920 --> 2:53:30.120 trying to be here? And yeah, I mean that that 2:53:30.240 --> 2:53:35.160 specific argument. Really, it really frustrates me because I think 2:53:35.200 --> 2:53:38.279 it really obvious skates how much this is a local movement, 2:53:38.760 --> 2:53:41.560 and also having solidarity from across state lines, from across 2:53:41.680 --> 2:53:45.359 national lines, speaks to the intersection of our the intersections 2:53:45.360 --> 2:53:48.560 of our oppressions, the intersections of our movements. It doesn't 2:53:48.560 --> 2:53:50.720 speak to the fact that this is co opted or 2:53:50.760 --> 2:53:54.400 it doesn't indicate anything other than that none of us 2:53:54.480 --> 2:53:57.279 is free, into all of us are free. The ultimate 2:53:57.360 --> 2:53:59.920 goal of the police is not so much to brew 2:54:00.040 --> 2:54:05.160 utalize and pacify specific individuals, as it is to extract 2:54:05.400 --> 2:54:11.560 rebelliousness itself from the social fabric. They seek to externalize agitation, 2:54:11.840 --> 2:54:14.840 so anyone who stands up for themselves will be seen 2:54:15.040 --> 2:54:20.760 as an outsider, as deviant and anti social. Noah mentioned 2:54:20.879 --> 2:54:24.640 how the outside agitated or narrative is rooted in stripping 2:54:24.680 --> 2:54:28.880 people of their own autonomy. It's it's completely denying, like 2:54:29.000 --> 2:54:32.440 the freedom of movement and the freedom to decide that 2:54:32.560 --> 2:54:36.240 you would like to go and support other issues, and 2:54:36.360 --> 2:54:40.320 so with like the empathy of solidarity with other people. 2:54:43.720 --> 2:54:47.000 Just deciding that if you are living here a bit 2:54:47.040 --> 2:54:50.520 from out of town, that somehow makes you, that makes 2:54:51.280 --> 2:54:53.800 ms more and more dangerous, and if you are an 2:54:53.879 --> 2:54:58.320 official resident in some way it's all I mean. And 2:54:58.440 --> 2:55:00.200 even some of the people who are like out of 2:55:00.280 --> 2:55:04.720 town there like not even two hours away from where 2:55:05.280 --> 2:55:09.040 from where the prosecutors are claiming where they're from. The 2:55:09.160 --> 2:55:13.480 outside agitator's narrative only works if we have this sense 2:55:13.640 --> 2:55:16.480 of other nests that we talked about in the last episode, 2:55:17.160 --> 2:55:22.320 This disconnect and separation from neighboring struggles, as if lines 2:55:22.440 --> 2:55:26.560 on a map change the morality of actions, keeping people 2:55:26.920 --> 2:55:31.920 in pre trial jail for an unknown amount of time 2:55:32.080 --> 2:55:36.040 could could be literally over a year because they are 2:55:36.200 --> 2:55:38.959 deemed non local, so the judge thought they were quote 2:55:39.000 --> 2:55:43.359 unquote flight risk beyond the charges themselves, which are innately 2:55:43.520 --> 2:55:47.560 kind of absurd. And the brutality is is the point 2:55:48.120 --> 2:55:51.360 she audacity of keeping people with no evidence in cages 2:55:51.440 --> 2:55:55.080 for years um for going to a protest is just 2:55:56.200 --> 2:55:59.200 it's not surprising, but it still is incredibly upsetting. Like 2:55:59.320 --> 2:56:01.920 it's like, it's no and it would be completely decried 2:56:01.959 --> 2:56:04.880 if we're happening at any other country, right and a 2:56:05.000 --> 2:56:08.520 massive human rights violation. If it's happening in China because 2:56:08.560 --> 2:56:11.520 of the U. S. China relations, like absolutely not there, 2:56:11.879 --> 2:56:15.000 there'd be an entire like I don't know, national outcry. 2:56:15.720 --> 2:56:18.120 But because it's people who are resisting this government in 2:56:18.240 --> 2:56:20.280 this state, then yeah, it doesn't get the same kind 2:56:20.320 --> 2:56:23.200 of empathy, it doesn't get the same outcry. When I 2:56:23.240 --> 2:56:26.400 talked with Karen, she spoke about how thankful she is 2:56:26.480 --> 2:56:28.920 that there are people from across the country, people like 2:56:29.040 --> 2:56:32.520 tort who care about the South River Forest enough to 2:56:32.720 --> 2:56:35.720 travel to Atlanta to defend it. In terms of the 2:56:35.840 --> 2:56:40.040 narrative of like outside agitators. You know, I'm I'm really 2:56:40.120 --> 2:56:43.279 grateful that people are coming to like protect the forest 2:56:43.360 --> 2:56:47.320 in my backyard, Like I am, I have like so 2:56:47.480 --> 2:56:53.720 much gratitude. It is so it is so meaningful. Um. Yeah, 2:56:54.400 --> 2:56:57.640 and I yeah, I think I I think after the 2:56:57.720 --> 2:57:01.560 first raid I told towards that I'm glad I did. 2:57:02.760 --> 2:57:06.720 But yeah, it really is like just so much gratitude. 2:57:07.680 --> 2:57:11.119 The framing of outside agitators is meant to keep people 2:57:11.200 --> 2:57:15.240 away and stifle solidarity, just like the domestic terrorism charges 2:57:15.280 --> 2:57:18.720 are meant to the state is trying out every tactic 2:57:18.840 --> 2:57:22.720 to scare people away from participating in the movement. So 2:57:22.959 --> 2:57:25.640 it feels like just the past month there's been such 2:57:25.720 --> 2:57:29.280 a intense increase in the level of state repression and 2:57:29.360 --> 2:57:35.360 state violence. How do you see things evolving in the 2:57:35.480 --> 2:57:38.879 next few weeks and months and or like even days 2:57:38.959 --> 2:57:42.600 at this point, like just with how both like physical 2:57:42.720 --> 2:57:45.720 violence definitely increasing with the raids and now like you know, 2:57:45.959 --> 2:57:49.960 killing somebody, um, and then the types of like you know, 2:57:50.440 --> 2:57:54.520 judicial abuse of power of giving people seven thousand dollar bail, 2:57:55.120 --> 2:57:59.000 keeping you know, many others just in jail and perpetuity 2:57:59.720 --> 2:58:02.840 for who knows how long. Yeah, I mean, I think 2:58:02.879 --> 2:58:05.200 it's clear looking at this movement that the state, the 2:58:05.320 --> 2:58:09.040 cops police have always been the first to escalate, have 2:58:09.680 --> 2:58:12.920 and have now murdered someone, have now assassinated someone, and 2:58:13.000 --> 2:58:16.320 are the ones who are constantly sort of making putting 2:58:16.480 --> 2:58:19.680 other people's lives in danger. They're really the people who 2:58:19.720 --> 2:58:22.440 are making folks unsafe. And and to it was a 2:58:22.480 --> 2:58:24.960 street medic. To it was someone who went through street 2:58:25.000 --> 2:58:28.320 medic training with someone who was passionate about protecting their community. 2:58:28.800 --> 2:58:30.440 And a street medic training one of the things that 2:58:30.560 --> 2:58:33.360 is taught, there's a whole section on police weapons and 2:58:33.400 --> 2:58:35.720 state weapons and ensure we cover tear gas, we cover 2:58:35.800 --> 2:58:39.040 on bullets, we cover all anything that you can sort 2:58:39.080 --> 2:58:42.960 of commonly see protests or in raids. And one of 2:58:42.959 --> 2:58:45.840 the biggest weapons that we always cover his fear. And 2:58:46.760 --> 2:58:49.240 that is really what I see happening with this escalation 2:58:49.400 --> 2:58:52.560 is that yes, there's a sort of increase of literal weapons, 2:58:52.640 --> 2:58:55.840 of of of arms, of just everything that we've heard 2:58:55.879 --> 2:58:59.320 about in in the forest um. But I think when 2:58:59.360 --> 2:59:02.120 you take add in combination with the ludicrous charges, what 2:59:02.240 --> 2:59:04.560 they're really trying to weaponize as our own fear, as 2:59:04.600 --> 2:59:07.400 our our our own emotions, making us think that it's 2:59:07.440 --> 2:59:09.840 too dangerous to be in the forest, that it's not 2:59:09.959 --> 2:59:13.160 worth it, that it's too risky, making us think that 2:59:13.200 --> 2:59:16.680 the forest itself is somehow an unsafe place, making us 2:59:16.720 --> 2:59:19.080 think that the people who protected are unsafe. And I 2:59:19.120 --> 2:59:21.480 think that's the that's the sort of trend that I'm seeing. 2:59:22.040 --> 2:59:24.039 I think in terms of what's coming next, I think 2:59:24.040 --> 2:59:26.840 they're going to keep leaning into the weapon of fear. 2:59:27.440 --> 2:59:30.360 I think it's um I think it's you know, it's 2:59:30.400 --> 2:59:32.920 it's it's not not ha ha funny that they accuse 2:59:33.400 --> 2:59:35.680 protesters and the people who have been charged with domestic 2:59:35.760 --> 2:59:39.880 terrorism of intimidation, when clearly they're using those charges to 2:59:39.959 --> 2:59:42.400 intimidate people, both the people who are charged with it 2:59:42.480 --> 2:59:44.560 and anyone who might consider themselves an ally or a 2:59:44.640 --> 2:59:47.080 friend of the forest and a friend of the forest defenders. 2:59:48.160 --> 2:59:50.640 So what I see moving forward in terms of carrying 2:59:50.720 --> 2:59:53.400 towards legacy forward, in terms of carrying this movement forward, 2:59:53.520 --> 2:59:56.680 is not buying into that bullshit, like very much being 2:59:56.920 --> 2:59:59.720 fear walking and not trying to say people shouldn't be 2:59:59.760 --> 3:00:02.840 scared or not have those feelings. But one of the 3:00:02.879 --> 3:00:05.920 memories of tor that I have is them very clearly 3:00:06.000 --> 3:00:09.360 refusing intimidation. Whether it was cops, whether it was you 3:00:09.440 --> 3:00:11.840 know whoever the sort of representative of the state was, 3:00:12.320 --> 3:00:14.400 they never gave into that. And I think that's what 3:00:14.480 --> 3:00:16.120 I'm trying to carry forward with a lot of us 3:00:16.160 --> 3:00:20.240 are trying to carry forward. Noah spoke similarly about fear 3:00:20.440 --> 3:00:24.080 being a powerful weapon of the state and a very 3:00:24.160 --> 3:00:28.000 insidious one because it doesn't punish people for actions they 3:00:28.040 --> 3:00:30.920 may or may not have done, but instead works to 3:00:31.040 --> 3:00:34.560 prevent people from taking action in the first place. Fear 3:00:35.879 --> 3:00:39.680 the number one that the state ranch to bear all 3:00:39.760 --> 3:00:44.440 of their their toys and their guns and ship do 3:00:44.640 --> 3:00:47.720 not have the reach and do not have the capacity 3:00:47.920 --> 3:00:57.359 to stop liberation. Fear making people afraid of the idea 3:00:57.720 --> 3:01:04.240 of sidence is extremely powerful, and it's something that we 3:01:04.360 --> 3:01:06.480 all have to combat our own ways. It's something we 3:01:06.520 --> 3:01:10.080 will have to resist in our own ways because that 3:01:10.200 --> 3:01:14.039 obviously the state is capable of murdering and of putting 3:01:14.080 --> 3:01:16.160 people in prison for a very long time, and that 3:01:16.320 --> 3:01:18.080 is scary, and that is a valid thing to be 3:01:18.160 --> 3:01:23.080 afraid of. But we stand to lose so much if 3:01:23.200 --> 3:01:26.320 we do not combat that fear, to face off with them, 3:01:27.280 --> 3:01:31.040 that it's just something that I've found I have to manage. 3:01:31.240 --> 3:01:36.280 It's something that because we I'm so much more afraid 3:01:36.480 --> 3:01:39.080 of what we all lose if we don't stop them 3:01:39.160 --> 3:01:42.800 here than I am of myself being harmed or going 3:01:43.200 --> 3:01:46.520 to prison. We all stand to lose ten tens of 3:01:46.600 --> 3:01:49.920 millions of people stand to lose everything if we allow 3:01:50.200 --> 3:01:54.000 climate backalypse to bear, if we allow the powers that 3:01:54.120 --> 3:01:57.680 be to get significantly more effective at combating dissidents in 3:01:57.720 --> 3:02:01.760 the streets from you in gosh, not not just in 3:02:01.800 --> 3:02:06.680 the United States, but for national struggling in the same 3:02:06.760 --> 3:02:11.800 police department that cross training. Do you think the idea 3:02:12.080 --> 3:02:15.920 wouldn't becoming the facility to try and better heart, you know, 3:02:16.480 --> 3:02:23.640 past and dissidence. This will mean something to every foreign military, 3:02:23.720 --> 3:02:27.600 to every foreign police, for every police forshon There's a 3:02:27.680 --> 3:02:31.160 quote from Tortuguita talking about how to deal with fear. 3:02:32.040 --> 3:02:35.000 What I'm about to read also demonstrates, as their partner 3:02:35.080 --> 3:02:39.240 said that tort was very aware of the risks inherent 3:02:39.400 --> 3:02:43.359 to resisting the state, especially as a non white forest defender. 3:02:44.240 --> 3:02:47.080 But with an understanding of that risk and the fear 3:02:47.120 --> 3:02:51.120 associated with said risk, they chose it was worth it 3:02:51.360 --> 3:02:56.240 to keep on fighting. Quote, Am I scared of the state? 3:02:57.000 --> 3:02:59.920 Pretty silly not to be. I'm a brown person. I'm 3:03:00.040 --> 3:03:03.840 might be killed by the police for existing in certain spaces. 3:03:04.879 --> 3:03:07.920 Fear is the mind killer. That's a quote I think 3:03:07.959 --> 3:03:11.920 about often. I must not fear, and fear's the mind 3:03:11.959 --> 3:03:14.920 the killer. And here's a little death that brings total 3:03:15.000 --> 3:03:19.520 of liliteration. Face my fear. I'm permitted to pass over 3:03:19.640 --> 3:03:24.360 me and to me to continue. What tort said, quote 3:03:25.200 --> 3:03:29.400 I am scared, but you can't let the fear stop 3:03:29.480 --> 3:03:36.200 you from doing things, from living, from existing, from resisting unquote. 3:03:37.360 --> 3:03:41.160 In the early nineteen sixties, Atlanta was dubbed the City 3:03:41.320 --> 3:03:44.720 Too Busy to Hate. The phrase can be traced back 3:03:44.920 --> 3:03:48.000 to a Civil Rights era marketing slogan attributed to Mayor 3:03:48.160 --> 3:03:51.800 Ivan Allen, who spent millions of dollars in the nineteen 3:03:51.879 --> 3:03:56.480 sixties to promote Atlanta as a business oriented city, a 3:03:56.560 --> 3:03:59.440 city moving forward from its racial past and into a 3:04:00.000 --> 3:04:04.520 hopeful new future. This was the beginning of the Atlanta Way. 3:04:05.440 --> 3:04:08.000 Still today, you can find this city Too Busy to 3:04:08.080 --> 3:04:12.920 Hate everywhere on on murals, posters, and t shirts. It's 3:04:12.959 --> 3:04:17.240 become part of Atlanta's identity, or at least Atlanta tries 3:04:17.320 --> 3:04:21.400 to tell itself that within the slogan lies this admission 3:04:21.480 --> 3:04:25.440 of the belief that racism and oppression can be beaten 3:04:25.600 --> 3:04:30.360 by hyper capitalism, meaning the first and foremost goal of 3:04:30.440 --> 3:04:35.880 the city is economic progress. Equality and racial justice must 3:04:36.000 --> 3:04:39.279 take a back seat because the city is just too busy. 3:04:40.360 --> 3:04:43.000 There's a few better examples of this in action than 3:04:43.440 --> 3:04:47.360 the black neighborhoods that were demolished to build infrastructure for 3:04:47.440 --> 3:04:52.560 the Olympics and later the Mercedes Benz Stadium. Since then, 3:04:52.760 --> 3:04:55.640 the belt Line's original vision of public transit to green 3:04:55.720 --> 3:04:59.480 space and affordable housing has been abandoned in favor of 3:04:59.560 --> 3:05:05.320 developing luxury apartments and gentrified retail joints. As Fouko's Boomerang 3:05:05.480 --> 3:05:09.800 brings the internal colonization of the gentrification and increasing police 3:05:09.800 --> 3:05:13.120 and militarization to Atlanta, it only makes sense that cops 3:05:13.200 --> 3:05:15.720 city and the battle to stop it is happening here. 3:05:16.400 --> 3:05:19.440 Towart died two days right after Martin Luther Catteck Junior 3:05:19.520 --> 3:05:23.120 Memorial Day. We're in Atlanta. There's this whole section of 3:05:23.160 --> 3:05:25.720 the Delta Airport in Atlanta dedicated to John Lewis you 3:05:25.760 --> 3:05:27.800 can hear his voice on a loop saying good trouble, 3:05:28.320 --> 3:05:30.600 And yet as soon as the festivities are over, as 3:05:30.640 --> 3:05:33.199 soon as the fundraising is over, when someone is shot 3:05:33.480 --> 3:05:36.240 resisting the state and a peaceful, non violent direct action, 3:05:36.280 --> 3:05:39.640 they're labeled a terrorist. I don't understand how someone can 3:05:39.680 --> 3:05:42.480 possibly reconcile those two things. They seem to me to 3:05:42.520 --> 3:05:46.680 be grotesque. I mean, it's it's disgusting, but I don't 3:05:46.720 --> 3:05:50.640 see that reflected in any mainstream narrative. Noah talked with 3:05:50.760 --> 3:05:53.320 me about how he first got involved in the Stop 3:05:53.400 --> 3:05:59.160 Cops City movement. In my introduction to Cops is starting 3:05:59.160 --> 3:06:01.360 where much people shou and it landed when it got 3:06:01.440 --> 3:06:03.320 first leaked that this was a thing that the city 3:06:03.400 --> 3:06:06.680 was planning. Um, I remember having just a very like, 3:06:06.840 --> 3:06:10.040 oh my god, what the fuck like reaction to realizing, like, 3:06:10.879 --> 3:06:14.840 they want to destroy the largest urban canopy in the 3:06:14.959 --> 3:06:17.880 country to build a big fake city for them to 3:06:17.920 --> 3:06:24.080 practice doing urban combat, and that's like parity dysturbian. And 3:06:24.360 --> 3:06:28.680 very quickly people were organizing in various different ways to 3:06:29.800 --> 3:06:32.000 to stop them, to to make their voices heard that 3:06:32.080 --> 3:06:33.880 this was not something that it ran on was okay with, 3:06:34.000 --> 3:06:35.680 This is not something we were okay with having in 3:06:35.720 --> 3:06:39.320 our communities. It is not something that anybody wanted. That 3:06:39.440 --> 3:06:41.720 took a lot of different fronts. For me. I mean 3:06:41.840 --> 3:06:46.480 that went from working, whether that be on the streets too, 3:06:47.240 --> 3:06:51.480 just doing food destroys and medical trainings too, you know, 3:06:51.879 --> 3:06:54.720 scampering around the woods with my friends like that took 3:06:54.879 --> 3:06:59.560 many different forms, just as forms of resistance to UM 3:07:00.640 --> 3:07:03.720 and over time that has changed and evolved. But I 3:07:03.800 --> 3:07:07.440 still think of something that working on a different French 3:07:07.600 --> 3:07:15.480 to be person as possible. The sheer resiliency we've seen 3:07:15.600 --> 3:07:21.680 in Atlanta post has been incredibly impressive and inspiring after 3:07:22.600 --> 3:07:25.040 the radical communities in a lot of cities dealt with 3:07:25.200 --> 3:07:27.840 pretty extreme burnout to due to such a grueling summer, 3:07:28.640 --> 3:07:32.040 and ever since then, people seem to be recovering and 3:07:32.320 --> 3:07:38.080 anticipating the next cycle of mass uprising. As news spread 3:07:38.160 --> 3:07:42.560 of Memphis police's brutal beating of Tyree Nichols, which resulted 3:07:42.640 --> 3:07:46.200 in his death, there was renewed discussion if it was 3:07:46.240 --> 3:07:51.200 going to spark the quote unquote next. But Atlanta is 3:07:51.320 --> 3:07:55.280 one of the few cities where things really haven't halted. 3:07:55.480 --> 3:07:59.840 Since Defend the Four, stuff has been going pretty hard 3:08:00.000 --> 3:08:05.439 ever since, like UM and it's been a very compressive 3:08:05.480 --> 3:08:08.280 amount of resiliency. Can you kind of talk on that 3:08:08.640 --> 3:08:12.880 aspect of how people have been able to do that? Yeah, 3:08:12.959 --> 3:08:16.440 I think it comes down to having a really good 3:08:16.560 --> 3:08:19.440 support network of people, of people who are willing to 3:08:20.800 --> 3:08:27.440 um be, support activists who are jail, support activists medically 3:08:27.560 --> 3:08:30.840 and financially, like we're able to make this possible. And 3:08:30.920 --> 3:08:33.440 it also comes down to that to defend the forest 3:08:33.560 --> 3:08:38.000 movement is so it is so important to anybody, It 3:08:38.040 --> 3:08:42.200 should be so important to anybody who looked at as 3:08:42.240 --> 3:08:45.240 a strike back against police violence what cops it image 3:08:45.440 --> 3:08:48.640 for all of us is a world in which has 3:08:48.760 --> 3:08:53.960 much harder to resist police, especially in cities. And for 3:08:54.040 --> 3:08:56.920 a lot of activists who come out defend the forest 3:08:57.040 --> 3:08:59.760 became an extension of that fight. It became its own 3:09:00.000 --> 3:09:02.240 it's on fright to prohect the forest and an extension 3:09:02.320 --> 3:09:04.920 of the battle against the violence of the state and 3:09:05.000 --> 3:09:07.840 against the ability of the place to further militarize. And 3:09:07.920 --> 3:09:10.000 I think that kept a lot of a lot of 3:09:10.040 --> 3:09:14.160 people going UM but I certainly happens. I mean it is. 3:09:14.959 --> 3:09:17.120 It can be really exhausting work, It can be really 3:09:17.160 --> 3:09:20.440 defeating at times, and it's been really important I think 3:09:20.520 --> 3:09:24.400 for people everywhere and and here to have you know, 3:09:24.680 --> 3:09:28.400 friends and and things that they can do too decompress 3:09:28.640 --> 3:09:31.560 and take time off when needed, to stay to keep 3:09:31.600 --> 3:09:34.800 the ability to keep doing this UM and to not 3:09:35.320 --> 3:09:38.039 burn out completely, and to be able to keep going 3:09:38.200 --> 3:09:42.720 against what feels like all adds and terms UM. Also 3:09:42.879 --> 3:09:48.560 just activists here a pretty faking resilient just I'm continuous 3:09:48.760 --> 3:09:51.200 or impressed by the people I see just continuing to 3:09:51.280 --> 3:09:55.080 go out day after day and working behind the scenes 3:09:55.120 --> 3:09:57.360 doing everything possible to make sure that we can keep going. 3:09:57.879 --> 3:10:01.080 The solidarity friend has a couple of things today, people's 3:10:01.080 --> 3:10:04.960 commissaries and the past has done later writing campaigns for 3:10:05.000 --> 3:10:09.520 a political prisoners across the country, which is certainly like 3:10:09.600 --> 3:10:12.640 a thing that you know, we're looking at the potential 3:10:12.680 --> 3:10:15.520 people being held very long term. That's absolutely going to 3:10:15.600 --> 3:10:17.720 be something in the current weeks that I help people 3:10:18.080 --> 3:10:20.760 UM spread to the like. Obviously, these people who are 3:10:20.800 --> 3:10:25.120 incrostrated are supporting every way we can possibly possibly do that. 3:10:26.080 --> 3:10:29.600 If the people currently incarcerated are granted bond during the 3:10:29.680 --> 3:10:32.720 appeal process and it's set to the same amount as 3:10:32.760 --> 3:10:35.880 the last two individuals. That would be three hundred and 3:10:36.000 --> 3:10:39.760 fifty five thousand dollars per person for at least five 3:10:39.879 --> 3:10:44.800 more people. That included with like the previous bonding mats 3:10:44.840 --> 3:10:47.040 that were set for previous rage. I mean, we're approaching 3:10:47.120 --> 3:10:50.879 three million dollars and potential bonds, which is just designed 3:10:50.920 --> 3:10:53.640 to drain people are such much as possible and make 3:10:53.720 --> 3:10:58.760 the idea of protests seem impossible. And again this is 3:10:58.840 --> 3:11:05.160 just under there attractive perpetuate power fear and making it 3:11:05.400 --> 3:11:09.720 same as impossible to protestants and making it seem like 3:11:09.800 --> 3:11:11.400 if you were to be arrested that you would never 3:11:12.160 --> 3:11:18.000 That's terrifying. That's that's the number one. There have been 3:11:18.040 --> 3:11:21.879 a few semi distinct stages in the struggle against Cops City. 3:11:22.440 --> 3:11:26.040 In summer, the initial stage was trying to get the 3:11:26.080 --> 3:11:29.080 city council to vote no on the project. There was 3:11:29.080 --> 3:11:34.040 a lot of canvassing, calling representatives, involvement from large above 3:11:34.080 --> 3:11:37.280 ground organizations like the d s A and Sunrise, you know, 3:11:37.440 --> 3:11:40.960 people trying to quote unquote campaign the right way to 3:11:41.080 --> 3:11:45.080 get the project shut down before even started. And then 3:11:45.480 --> 3:11:48.560 even despite seventy of the local people who called in 3:11:49.200 --> 3:11:53.560 not wanting this, the city council voted for it anyway, 3:11:54.520 --> 3:11:57.600 and then starting two months after the vote, and for 3:11:58.000 --> 3:12:02.080 over a year now, we've had this forest occupation or 3:12:02.400 --> 3:12:06.640 encampment stage. People going into the woods and having their 3:12:06.720 --> 3:12:12.840 continuous physical presence there itself be a deterrent for construction. Concurrently, 3:12:12.920 --> 3:12:16.119 there have been random acts of sabotage, with construction equipment 3:12:16.240 --> 3:12:21.920 spontaneously bursting into flames, alongside pressure campaigns targeting subcontractors and 3:12:22.240 --> 3:12:26.600 cops city investors. With the past few police raids having 3:12:26.640 --> 3:12:30.080 been increasingly violent and the last one resulting in the 3:12:30.160 --> 3:12:33.040 death of a force defender, I asked the people I 3:12:33.080 --> 3:12:36.720 spoke with if they saw any forthcoming new stage of 3:12:36.840 --> 3:12:40.320 the movement, considering the cops are trying really hard to 3:12:40.440 --> 3:12:43.200 make it very dangerous to camp in the woods right now. 3:12:44.320 --> 3:12:46.880 What's your sense from on the ground, how stuff might 3:12:47.000 --> 3:12:50.840 you know with these increasing charges increasing, with bail phones, 3:12:51.879 --> 3:12:54.200 increasing use of forth what's some kind of ways that 3:12:54.280 --> 3:12:57.480 you field stuff might start changing on the ground, Like 3:12:57.600 --> 3:12:59.880 do you like, do you think the encampment that I 3:13:00.120 --> 3:13:02.320 were content will continue or will it kind of evolve 3:13:02.360 --> 3:13:06.560 in a new kind of unexpected direction. It remains to 3:13:06.600 --> 3:13:09.640 be seen how um the approach to living in the 3:13:09.680 --> 3:13:13.560 woods will adapt to these changes. Um. The decap County 3:13:13.600 --> 3:13:17.280 Police Department has claimed that they're going to increase their 3:13:18.000 --> 3:13:21.120 surveillance and patrol of the neighborhood that the Woods is in. 3:13:22.520 --> 3:13:25.760 It remains to be seen what that will mean for 3:13:25.800 --> 3:13:27.880 the encampment and how active they're going to be in, 3:13:29.160 --> 3:13:32.040 you know, repressing people in a day to day sort 3:13:32.040 --> 3:13:35.920 of thing. And also I think one change is reconsidering 3:13:36.160 --> 3:13:39.400 what on the ground means and what the bounds of 3:13:39.480 --> 3:13:43.000 the forest are. There's more woods that black Hall plans 3:13:43.040 --> 3:13:47.360 to develop on nearby, so reconsidering what on the ground 3:13:47.560 --> 3:13:51.280 is you know, brass field and gory construction sites could 3:13:51.360 --> 3:13:54.560 be considered and on the ground site you know, for actions, 3:13:54.920 --> 3:13:57.600 and you know, I think there's a lot of room 3:13:57.680 --> 3:14:01.160 to grow in that direction as well. Like do you 3:14:01.240 --> 3:14:04.600 see this moment as like a substantial turning point? I 3:14:04.640 --> 3:14:06.560 think so. I mean, I don't think it couldn't be 3:14:06.600 --> 3:14:10.560 a turning point. Um. I think that every every escalation 3:14:10.640 --> 3:14:13.320 of violence that this happened has been perpetrated by law enforcement. 3:14:13.400 --> 3:14:15.600 There's never been a moment in which the people combating 3:14:15.640 --> 3:14:19.080 law enforcement have been the ones to escalate the violence, 3:14:19.840 --> 3:14:24.720 and I think that this marks a willingness of the 3:14:25.800 --> 3:14:27.880 government here in the city government, that this is the 3:14:27.959 --> 3:14:29.840 hill that they're willing to die on. This is where 3:14:29.840 --> 3:14:33.680 they're willing to stand their ground and where they are 3:14:34.320 --> 3:14:36.680 proven to us that they are are committed and so 3:14:36.840 --> 3:14:39.000 committed to the idea of building cops city that they 3:14:39.040 --> 3:14:41.920 are willing to kill people. And I think that that 3:14:42.120 --> 3:14:46.040 is a turning point and how we as a movement 3:14:46.120 --> 3:14:48.360 have to be willing to respond to the state, and 3:14:48.440 --> 3:14:51.240 how we have to be willing to look at them 3:14:51.320 --> 3:14:54.800 not just as this entity that we are facing down 3:14:54.959 --> 3:14:58.080 like in like the courts and doing fun blacks, because 3:14:58.120 --> 3:15:00.080 that clearly doesn't work. They are just going to to 3:15:00.200 --> 3:15:03.840 murder us, but as a force that is a you know, 3:15:03.920 --> 3:15:07.040 like offensive militarised force coming after us. I think that 3:15:07.240 --> 3:15:11.480 is a that it marks a really big to shift 3:15:11.640 --> 3:15:14.440 in overallly looking at what the city government here is 3:15:14.480 --> 3:15:16.640 willing to do to get this done. And I think 3:15:16.680 --> 3:15:19.360 that a variety of tactics will always being play. People 3:15:19.360 --> 3:15:21.119 are always going to have different ways that they feel 3:15:21.160 --> 3:15:25.400 comfortable and and safe and responding. But I do think 3:15:25.520 --> 3:15:31.400 that I think what we saw on Saturday was a 3:15:32.800 --> 3:15:35.480 with a response to that that that people showed up 3:15:35.520 --> 3:15:39.040 and they made it very clear that we were not 3:15:39.160 --> 3:15:41.560 going to take this lying down, that people aren't going 3:15:41.640 --> 3:15:44.640 to be willing to let the state going answered, and 3:15:44.720 --> 3:15:46.600 that they don't gonna let the police going answered for 3:15:46.680 --> 3:15:50.240 this acts. And I think from from now on and 3:15:50.320 --> 3:15:53.960 going forward, I think we will. I think I hope 3:15:53.959 --> 3:15:56.080 at least that we see more and more people taking 3:15:56.160 --> 3:15:59.680 up acts of physical resistance to law enforcement, to the 3:15:59.760 --> 3:16:03.800 state to prevent them from building city and prevent them 3:16:03.840 --> 3:16:08.520 from preventing further action violence. So far, the forced occupation 3:16:08.600 --> 3:16:11.760 has proved effective in delaying the construction of Cops City. 3:16:12.520 --> 3:16:16.320 In the past, barricades have inhibited the movement of construction equipment, 3:16:16.879 --> 3:16:20.520 Machinery left in the woods has been sabotaged, and during 3:16:20.560 --> 3:16:23.760 attempts to fell trees, force defenders have put their own 3:16:23.800 --> 3:16:26.080 bodies on the line by climbing into the tree tops 3:16:26.120 --> 3:16:29.680 to prevent them from being cut down. Other prongs of 3:16:29.720 --> 3:16:34.520 the movement have similarly produced successes. Pressure campaigns focused on 3:16:34.640 --> 3:16:37.800 getting contractors and businesses to divest or pull out of 3:16:37.840 --> 3:16:41.600 the project resulted last April in a Reeves Young Construction, 3:16:41.760 --> 3:16:45.000 The initial contractor for Cops City, severing ties with the 3:16:45.080 --> 3:16:49.640 project after months of pressure, and just this month, Quality 3:16:49.720 --> 3:16:52.600 Glass Company announced that they would not be working on 3:16:52.680 --> 3:16:55.480 Cops City, as well as no longer doing business with 3:16:55.560 --> 3:16:58.840 brass Field and Gory, the current contractor for the facility. 3:17:00.240 --> 3:17:04.600 These pussure campaigns can include protests at company offices, phone 3:17:04.640 --> 3:17:08.560 calls imploring them to drop the contract, or actions more 3:17:08.600 --> 3:17:11.760 along the lines of vandalism at job sites, or visits 3:17:11.840 --> 3:17:16.200 to the neighborhoods of company executives, even to simply drop 3:17:16.280 --> 3:17:19.320 off flyers or banners. I don't think this was ever 3:17:19.440 --> 3:17:21.760 a fright that we're gonna win. On one front um 3:17:22.240 --> 3:17:24.080 the amount of people that we were able to put 3:17:24.120 --> 3:17:26.320 in the in Cameron, the forest was really beautiful to see, 3:17:26.440 --> 3:17:28.720 but the state was always going to be able to 3:17:29.000 --> 3:17:31.760 put out enough manpower to shut that down. This is 3:17:31.840 --> 3:17:36.280 a battle that we ran on multiple friends, and that 3:17:36.480 --> 3:17:41.320 includes you know, that includes having conclude having physical presence 3:17:41.320 --> 3:17:44.040 in the forest and preventing machinery from permanent but that 3:17:44.120 --> 3:17:50.560 also includes acts of sabotage, making sure that contractors who 3:17:50.560 --> 3:17:52.400 are signed on the Cops that they do not feel 3:17:52.440 --> 3:17:55.400 comfortable and do not feel safe signing on against project 3:17:55.480 --> 3:17:59.000 and making this economically impossible for the city to continue doing. 3:18:00.080 --> 3:18:04.280 As far as being like a new strategy, I don't 3:18:04.320 --> 3:18:11.560 know if it would be spously combushed and judge things, 3:18:11.680 --> 3:18:14.920 but I do think this marks are a point and 3:18:15.040 --> 3:18:21.040 potentially like the frequency of things happening and necessary, I 3:18:21.120 --> 3:18:24.760 think evaluating of where we are now and thinking realistically 3:18:24.760 --> 3:18:27.560 about what our next step shout to make this an 3:18:27.640 --> 3:18:31.920 untenable situation for this idy to continue past well. One 3:18:31.959 --> 3:18:35.840 evolution that I see happening is a consensus amongst long 3:18:35.959 --> 3:18:40.080 term organizers in Atlanta that we want as many people 3:18:40.200 --> 3:18:44.040 coming here to participate as possible, and also that I 3:18:44.160 --> 3:18:46.560 think one change is being less picky in who we 3:18:46.680 --> 3:18:51.200 invite to participate and encouraging like liberals and moderates to 3:18:51.879 --> 3:18:54.400 be a part of this. They've always been a part 3:18:54.440 --> 3:18:58.920 of it, but really um emphasizing that side of the 3:18:59.000 --> 3:19:02.840 movement more. Back in the Defend the Atlanta Forest episodes 3:19:03.000 --> 3:19:06.800 from last May, I talked about the Shack model, the 3:19:06.879 --> 3:19:11.040 aim of which is to make construction economically untenable by 3:19:11.120 --> 3:19:15.160 maintaining a presence in the forest, sabotaging work, and targeting 3:19:15.200 --> 3:19:20.160 specific subcontractors locally and elsewhere. In addition to contractors, corporate 3:19:20.200 --> 3:19:23.480 funders affiliated with the APF can also be targeted to 3:19:23.600 --> 3:19:29.480 distincentivize affiliation with the project. Solidarity actions targeting Atlantic Police 3:19:29.480 --> 3:19:34.360 Foundation contributors have been happening nationwide. As mentioned at the 3:19:34.440 --> 3:19:37.320 top of the episode, A Week of Solidarity is coming 3:19:37.400 --> 3:19:41.160 up on February and Stop Cop City Solidarity dot org 3:19:41.280 --> 3:19:45.600 has many resources. In the past, actions have included everything 3:19:45.720 --> 3:19:51.640 from office protests, divestment campaigns, vandalism, and actions by workers 3:19:51.720 --> 3:19:55.440 within these companies to pressure them into cutting ties. No 3:19:55.600 --> 3:20:00.440 action is too small or too ambitious. In an palysis 3:20:00.600 --> 3:20:04.440 on tactics published recently on its going down, said this 3:20:04.879 --> 3:20:10.800 regarding the targeting of Cops City investors. Quote In other campaigns, 3:20:11.040 --> 3:20:14.480 banks like Wells Fargo have been forced to divest from 3:20:14.560 --> 3:20:19.160 police and prison expansion, but these efforts often take years 3:20:19.360 --> 3:20:24.440 and lots of resources. Atlanta Police Foundation supporters like public universities, 3:20:24.800 --> 3:20:28.760 Georgia State University, Georgia Tech, or Emery University could be 3:20:29.080 --> 3:20:33.879 lower hanging fruit. Comrades should identify which Cops City funders 3:20:33.959 --> 3:20:37.800 are most vulnerable to pressure, where potential allies like student 3:20:37.840 --> 3:20:40.960 groups and unions are positioned and share this info and 3:20:41.080 --> 3:20:45.920 synchronize actions. Unquote. Bureaucratic red tape can also be effective 3:20:46.000 --> 3:20:50.160 in delaying progress. Ongoing zoning appeals could result in an 3:20:50.200 --> 3:20:54.039 official stock work order, but it remains unseen if such 3:20:54.040 --> 3:20:57.640 an order will even be followed, as currently laws around 3:20:57.920 --> 3:21:02.360 zoning appeals are being ignored by the contractors and the 3:21:02.400 --> 3:21:07.000 Atlanta Police Foundation. Tortu Guita had spoken of a theory 3:21:07.040 --> 3:21:11.720 of THEIRS concerning the potential for intense police repression and 3:21:11.840 --> 3:21:16.320 how the aftermath of that might play out. Quote. They 3:21:16.400 --> 3:21:19.520 could come in and completely destroy the place, raise it, 3:21:20.320 --> 3:21:25.160 arrest everybody they could find, kill anybody who resists arrest. 3:21:26.080 --> 3:21:29.480 They could do that, and then days later there would 3:21:29.480 --> 3:21:32.840 be a shipload of people back here. For every head 3:21:32.879 --> 3:21:35.200 they cut off, there would be more who would come 3:21:35.320 --> 3:21:40.039 back to avenge the arrested, to avenge the tort did 3:21:40.120 --> 3:21:44.400 not finish that sentence, but resuming, what I'm saying is 3:21:45.120 --> 3:21:47.720 if they do a huge crackdown and completely try to 3:21:47.800 --> 3:21:51.600 crush the movement, they'll succeed at hurting some people, they'll 3:21:51.640 --> 3:21:54.600 succeed at destroying some infrastructure, but they're not going to 3:21:54.680 --> 3:21:58.199 succeed at stopping the movement. That's just going to strengthen 3:21:58.280 --> 3:22:01.119 the movement. It will draw a of attention to the movement. 3:22:01.680 --> 3:22:05.119 If enough people decide to do this with non violent action, 3:22:05.680 --> 3:22:09.119 you can overwhelm the infrastructure of the state. That's something 3:22:09.360 --> 3:22:12.879 they fear more than violence in the streets, because violence 3:22:12.920 --> 3:22:15.400 in the streets they'll win. They have the guns for it. 3:22:16.000 --> 3:22:22.360 We don't unquote. No matter how the movement continues, the 3:22:22.480 --> 3:22:25.760 weight of torts absence will be felt as long as 3:22:25.879 --> 3:22:29.560 this fight carries on. It's such a huge loss. Um. 3:22:29.640 --> 3:22:31.600 But as we as we keep thinking about you know, 3:22:32.080 --> 3:22:36.080 w W t D, what would TORT do. It's continue 3:22:36.120 --> 3:22:38.800 to support those projects. It's continue to uplift the spaces 3:22:38.840 --> 3:22:41.080 and groups that are supporting the most vulnerable amongst us 3:22:41.120 --> 3:22:44.600 and uplifting their voices, uplifting their safety. And they're going 3:22:44.680 --> 3:22:47.879 to continue to be trainings offered, training specifically for folks 3:22:47.879 --> 3:22:50.480 who are marginalized and afraid of gun violence and want 3:22:50.560 --> 3:22:52.240 to know how to be able to protect themselves and 3:22:52.280 --> 3:22:55.560 protect their friends. This came about specifically in the wake 3:22:55.640 --> 3:22:58.680 of the shooting at the gay bar Um I guess 3:22:58.920 --> 3:23:02.400 a few months ago now, Jesus, and that was something 3:23:02.480 --> 3:23:05.560 that Toward was helping to organize. So yeah, we're gonna 3:23:06.160 --> 3:23:08.600 we're gonna keep doing that work. How do you think 3:23:09.080 --> 3:23:14.200 like a continue on without without towards there? Now? Um, 3:23:14.800 --> 3:23:18.600 you know, I think they set me up the hardest 3:23:18.640 --> 3:23:22.120 thing to navigate, Like, Okay, what can I do? Where 3:23:22.160 --> 3:23:25.840 can I fit in? Like I'm shorter, you know, living 3:23:25.879 --> 3:23:30.720 in the forest, And I think with just like the canvassing, 3:23:30.959 --> 3:23:32.960 I feel like I've really figured out the ways I 3:23:33.080 --> 3:23:36.320 can you know, my place in it enough to keep 3:23:36.320 --> 3:23:39.400 me busy. It was towards kind of very instrumental to 3:23:39.480 --> 3:23:42.480 having you help figure out like your role in this. 3:23:43.480 --> 3:23:47.440 I mean honestly, I would just like spitball, you know, 3:23:47.520 --> 3:23:49.800 an idea, and they'd be like, yeah, you should do that. 3:23:51.040 --> 3:23:54.560 Um we were like yeah, that'd be sick. And that 3:23:54.720 --> 3:23:58.080 gave me the confidence to be like okay. And also 3:23:58.200 --> 3:24:00.800 like I think this movement is into sting because it's 3:24:00.840 --> 3:24:04.200 totally different from any other organization or anything I've done 3:24:04.320 --> 3:24:07.400 in that like if you want to volunteer in any 3:24:07.440 --> 3:24:09.840 other thing, like you know, you make a graphic and 3:24:10.040 --> 3:24:12.480 you check it and you send it to someone and 3:24:13.320 --> 3:24:16.440 get it approved, you know, And just like the kind 3:24:16.480 --> 3:24:20.000 of deconstructing that thinking was like I mean to. It 3:24:20.080 --> 3:24:23.920 was really instrumental in that and it can be like 3:24:24.080 --> 3:24:27.480 difficult to navigate, but really just walking all that back 3:24:27.560 --> 3:24:29.320 and being like if you want to, like you know, 3:24:29.680 --> 3:24:33.320 canvass your neighbors like you just do it. The Stop 3:24:33.400 --> 3:24:36.560 Cops City movement has called for a fifth Week of 3:24:36.680 --> 3:24:41.439 Action to be held on March fourth through March eleventh 3:24:41.680 --> 3:24:45.760 in Atlanta, Georgia. They are asking all those opposed to 3:24:45.840 --> 3:24:48.879 Cops City to come participate in a variety of events 3:24:48.920 --> 3:24:51.920 and actions both in and out of the forest. And 3:24:52.040 --> 3:24:55.879 if you're able to bring a tent, if you're unable 3:24:55.920 --> 3:24:59.000 to travel, there's still calls to support people in your 3:24:59.040 --> 3:25:02.240 own community who might be able to do so. This 3:25:02.560 --> 3:25:04.720 Week of Action will be a key moment in the 3:25:04.800 --> 3:25:08.080 next phase of the fight to defend the forest. I 3:25:08.160 --> 3:25:10.600 want people to know that being in the woods, even 3:25:10.640 --> 3:25:12.920 if just for a few days, will transform you and 3:25:13.560 --> 3:25:17.879 unexpected and delightful ways. And that's something that we witnessed 3:25:17.920 --> 3:25:21.000 with Towart Toart lived in the woods for less than 3:25:21.040 --> 3:25:25.160 a year, and they transformed and blossomed into their purpose 3:25:25.400 --> 3:25:30.000 in unexpected and beautiful ways. And so if you have 3:25:30.120 --> 3:25:32.680 the opportunity to come and spend any amount of time 3:25:32.720 --> 3:25:35.440 in these woods. I encourage you to do so because 3:25:36.200 --> 3:25:38.600 I think that you'll find that it will nourish you 3:25:38.720 --> 3:25:42.600 and aid in your growth as a human. The police 3:25:42.720 --> 3:25:47.480 have not succeeded in scaring everybody out of the forest. Well, Lonnie. 3:25:47.520 --> 3:25:50.600 People's Park is still legally required to operate as a 3:25:50.640 --> 3:25:55.080 public park. Last month I saw regular people jogging the trails. 3:25:55.400 --> 3:25:59.000 People still come every day. The movement has only grown 3:25:59.200 --> 3:26:02.640 despite the rep Russian and now forced Defenders in Atlanta 3:26:02.720 --> 3:26:07.359 are urging people everywhere to organize for the upcoming mass convergence. 3:26:08.600 --> 3:26:12.120 A large list of resources and movement websites I'll be 3:26:12.240 --> 3:26:15.160 putting in the description for people to learn more and 3:26:15.360 --> 3:26:18.360 stay up to date with information regarding the Week of action. 3:26:19.160 --> 3:26:22.680 I'll end this series by reading from a defend the 3:26:22.760 --> 3:26:27.480 Forest poster that I saw around Atlanta. Quote, it is 3:26:27.600 --> 3:26:30.600 your mission to stop cops city by all of the 3:26:30.760 --> 3:26:36.400 means at your disposal, without hesitation. Defend the forest from destruction, 3:26:36.920 --> 3:26:41.800 the city from commercialization, the future from ruin, the imagination 3:26:42.000 --> 3:26:46.640 from conquest, and the heart from resignation. Do not wait 3:26:46.760 --> 3:26:53.240 for further instruction. Reality is the battlefield. The rain on 3:26:53.360 --> 3:26:56.520 leaves signle lift earliest, the vegetum midst the melody we 3:26:56.680 --> 3:26:59.600 mimic in is the sound wind whistling long before to 3:26:59.680 --> 3:27:03.240 say his channing under the stars. On camped under organic pie, 3:27:03.320 --> 3:27:06.560 she sang a song, and she was far silent. No 3:27:06.760 --> 3:27:09.240 virus and violets, but the fragrance of her flowers, and 3:27:09.320 --> 3:27:13.120 continued to invite us the medicine materials of vitamins and 3:27:13.200 --> 3:27:15.920 minerals and all that is essential, which just grew right 3:27:16.000 --> 3:27:18.680 beside us. And Tyson started fighting with the gifts that 3:27:18.800 --> 3:27:21.680 she provided us, scorching the very soil that all of 3:27:21.800 --> 3:27:25.440 us derived from. And when empires learning came withstand by you, 3:27:25.720 --> 3:27:28.800 we returned to the land where our ancestors rain dance. 3:27:28.959 --> 3:27:32.000 We are all her creatures, we still bear her features. Then, 3:27:32.080 --> 3:27:35.000 one and only reason all living things is breathing the 3:27:35.080 --> 3:27:38.480 city's deceive and lead. Go see the dirt, young gonna 3:27:38.480 --> 3:28:00.680 be among the lungs of mother Earth. Cuse, yeah, yeah, down, 3:28:05.280 --> 3:28:17.840 Let's shop him down. There was a forest. God, fucking 3:28:17.959 --> 3:28:20.400 damn it, I just got another fucking message about the 3:28:20.440 --> 3:28:25.240 gold ads. Leave me alone, all right? And could happen here? 3:28:25.879 --> 3:28:30.640 Welcome to it? Could happen here? A podcast about the 3:28:30.800 --> 3:28:35.920 incredible investment vehicle that is gold. Now, look, people, if 3:28:36.000 --> 3:28:38.520 you aren't currently putting all of your money into gold, 3:28:38.600 --> 3:28:41.240 and I mean all of your money, then you're just 3:28:41.480 --> 3:28:45.040 leaving cash on the table. Gold is such a good 3:28:45.080 --> 3:28:48.680 investment vehicle that if you had bought ten tho dollars 3:28:48.760 --> 3:28:51.879 worth of gold twenty years ago, you would have roughly 3:28:51.959 --> 3:28:56.039 the same amount of money. Can can you beat Can 3:28:56.120 --> 3:29:00.280 you beat gold? I bet you can't. I've replayed most 3:29:00.320 --> 3:29:01.720 of my teeth with gold, and I have run in 3:29:01.760 --> 3:29:05.119 the same amount of teeth. It's a win win. Wow, wow, incredible. 3:29:05.760 --> 3:29:08.560 Gold is Gold is perfect for a number of reasons. Look, 3:29:08.600 --> 3:29:13.760 if you're worried about instability, obviously if society collapses, gold 3:29:14.200 --> 3:29:16.200 is the thing that you want to have, because, of 3:29:16.320 --> 3:29:19.359 course you'll still be able to trade what is fundamentally 3:29:19.480 --> 3:29:22.680 a useless rock for goods and services in the event 3:29:22.800 --> 3:29:26.280 that there's no civilization. That that just makes complete sense. 3:29:26.640 --> 3:29:30.600 Don't stock up on ammunition, stock up on gold. What 3:29:30.680 --> 3:29:34.720 about gold immunition? Oh? Now, see, that's what If you 3:29:34.800 --> 3:29:38.600 want to kill super vampires, that's what you want is 3:29:38.680 --> 3:29:42.080 gold bullets. You know, there is something like maybe it's 3:29:42.160 --> 3:29:44.560 like survival of the fittest. I'm allergic to gold, so 3:29:45.120 --> 3:29:46.920 if I touch it it gives me a rash. So 3:29:47.040 --> 3:29:49.920 I can't survive in a world of gold. I love 3:29:50.040 --> 3:29:52.760 you well if you need so, if you need to 3:29:52.840 --> 3:29:55.680 take out Sharine and the apocalypse, make sure make a 3:29:55.800 --> 3:30:00.920 gold spear or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just give jewelry. Look, 3:30:01.000 --> 3:30:03.080 it's it's a good idea. According to one of my friends, 3:30:03.080 --> 3:30:05.560 who has read much more marks than idea marks, particular 3:30:05.600 --> 3:30:08.800 that we would go back to the gold standard. So yeah, 3:30:09.640 --> 3:30:13.800 you're it's gonna be great. The immortal science wins again. Um, 3:30:17.120 --> 3:30:22.320 this is actually today we are talking about um collapse, 3:30:22.440 --> 3:30:27.480 but not the collapse of the economy, because the economy 3:30:27.560 --> 3:30:29.880 is kind of always collapsing. That's part of what makes 3:30:29.920 --> 3:30:32.720 it the economy. Instead, we're talking about the fact that 3:30:33.360 --> 3:30:36.640 the market for eggs has gotten insane. People are paying 3:30:36.959 --> 3:30:42.280 crazy prices for huevos these days. Um, and there's there's 3:30:42.360 --> 3:30:45.720 no no good reason for it, obviously, Like it's the 3:30:46.360 --> 3:30:49.200 you know, egg production in some places was like impacted 3:30:49.280 --> 3:30:52.120 by the bird flu, but that is not why eggs 3:30:52.120 --> 3:30:55.440 have gotten more expensive. It's pure corporate greed. But regardless 3:30:55.560 --> 3:30:59.000 of that, people are finding themselves thinking about like, wow, 3:30:59.080 --> 3:31:03.160 eggs are expensive as hell. Should I maybe get some chickens? Um? 3:31:03.360 --> 3:31:06.519 And today we have several chicken owners on the podcast, 3:31:06.800 --> 3:31:10.400 myself and James Stout, and several people who don't have chickens, 3:31:10.879 --> 3:31:18.200 but our chicken curious. So we're gonna talk about having chickens. James, Yeah, yeah, 3:31:18.240 --> 3:31:19.800 I do. I've been training for this my whole life. 3:31:19.959 --> 3:31:23.160 So yeah, this, this was your idea. So yeah, Vince 3:31:23.320 --> 3:31:25.040 is very much my baby. So if you guys just 3:31:25.080 --> 3:31:28.320 want to sit back and learn about chickens, your baby 3:31:28.480 --> 3:31:31.840 James or your egg, well that's the thing. If nar 3:31:32.000 --> 3:31:34.520 robert one could be the other. I've given enough time. 3:31:34.959 --> 3:31:37.360 People have talked about this. I've heard. Yeah, it's been 3:31:37.360 --> 3:31:39.760 a discussion for some time in the chicken community. All right, 3:31:40.520 --> 3:31:43.480 talking about chickens. Uh. So I want to start out 3:31:43.560 --> 3:31:47.120 with like, if you're thinking about getting chickens, and I 3:31:47.240 --> 3:31:50.480 have written a script for this, thank you. Yeah, I'm 3:31:50.480 --> 3:31:52.800 ready to roll. So the most important thing, obviously when 3:31:52.800 --> 3:31:54.920 you're getting animals, you're getting any animals, is like that 3:31:55.000 --> 3:31:56.800 you're responsible for a living thing and you have to 3:31:56.879 --> 3:31:58.760 take care of it and you have to be kind 3:31:58.800 --> 3:32:01.240 to it. And you have to treat it well and 3:32:01.320 --> 3:32:02.960 make sure that if you're not able to look after it, 3:32:03.040 --> 3:32:05.039 like if you travel a lot for work and someone 3:32:05.120 --> 3:32:09.840 else can write. I think chickens are particularly useless, or 3:32:09.879 --> 3:32:12.640 they're useful, and they're very nice, but they're not like 3:32:12.720 --> 3:32:15.360 the most practical animals, like if you if you leave 3:32:15.360 --> 3:32:17.800 them alone, they will die. If it gets too hot, 3:32:17.840 --> 3:32:21.000 they will die, if it gets too cold, they will die. Um, Like, 3:32:21.160 --> 3:32:23.000 you do have to look after them. They're not like 3:32:23.120 --> 3:32:26.119 a wild animal that comes in sometimes in lace eggs, 3:32:26.240 --> 3:32:29.560 like they are an extremely domesticated animal that's been domesticated 3:32:29.640 --> 3:32:34.720 for probably thousands of years. So it's a responsibility. I guess. Um, 3:32:36.000 --> 3:32:37.800 I'm just gonna I'm gonna go through some of the stuff. 3:32:37.800 --> 3:32:40.600 If you guys have any questions as we move along, 3:32:40.640 --> 3:32:42.800 please feel free to ask him. I want to start 3:32:42.800 --> 3:32:45.040 out with the breeds of chickens, which I think are 3:32:45.040 --> 3:32:47.600 a good idea. And so when you're looking at chickens, 3:32:47.640 --> 3:32:49.000 the first thing you're gonna want to look at if 3:32:49.000 --> 3:32:50.640 your space right, Like how much space do I have? 3:32:50.720 --> 3:32:53.080 And there are websites where you can calculate like working 3:32:53.160 --> 3:32:55.560 with your acreage or or how many yards you have. 3:32:55.760 --> 3:32:58.840 How many chickens are appropriate? Was the level of prepper 3:32:58.879 --> 3:33:03.920 and the stuff. I'm like, I'm like so happy because 3:33:04.720 --> 3:33:08.360 I will I will note be be careful about getting 3:33:08.400 --> 3:33:10.480 too many. When I got the place that I got, 3:33:10.520 --> 3:33:14.480 I inherited fourteen chickens. And that is a tremendous quantity 3:33:14.520 --> 3:33:19.120 of chickens. And and there was especially chickens make you know, 3:33:19.879 --> 3:33:22.080 kind of in their prime. Egg laying can make one. 3:33:22.280 --> 3:33:25.640 Sometimes some chickens will do to a day. So there 3:33:25.680 --> 3:33:28.320 were weeks where I was getting like close to a 3:33:28.400 --> 3:33:32.000 hundred eggs, which is far more, far more eggs than 3:33:32.040 --> 3:33:36.120 a human being can possibly consume. You can consume, I 3:33:36.160 --> 3:33:42.080 can consume a hundred eggs. Well, they will, they will 3:33:42.120 --> 3:33:46.960 consume you. I will mail you eggs always be more eggs. 3:33:47.200 --> 3:33:49.960 Eggs are like eight. I walked into a grocery store. Okay, 3:33:49.959 --> 3:33:51.800 I'm I'm I'm I'm now doing the bit. I walked 3:33:51.840 --> 3:33:53.680 through the grocery store in the eggs where eight fifty, 3:33:53.720 --> 3:33:56.000 and I was like, what the fund is going on here? Man, 3:33:56.560 --> 3:33:58.640 I'm gonna I'm gonna make a fucking bank. I have 3:33:58.800 --> 3:34:01.920 like literally sick see eggs sitting in my kitchen. Right now, 3:34:02.160 --> 3:34:03.960 Robert's going to sell eggs in the dark web. You 3:34:04.080 --> 3:34:07.280 goddamn right. This is how I fucking leave this this 3:34:07.720 --> 3:34:11.720 damn podcasting bullshit behind. I'm gonna become the egg man 3:34:11.879 --> 3:34:20.520 and bitches. Finally, I used for cryptocurrency egg coin. It's 3:34:20.520 --> 3:34:22.640 actually it's tied to the value of eggs. As you 3:34:24.879 --> 3:34:29.920 completely collapsed. Um. Yeah, don't don't over chicken yourself like 3:34:29.959 --> 3:34:32.040 starting out, but also don't get too few. You do 3:34:32.160 --> 3:34:37.400 want at least three. They'll be sad, they won't get along. 3:34:37.680 --> 3:34:40.280 And if you if you're like a normal household, three 3:34:40.440 --> 3:34:43.480 is probably a great number of chickens. Like you, you 3:34:43.520 --> 3:34:47.440 will probably be quite happy with three to four chickens. Yeah, 3:34:47.480 --> 3:34:49.800 you'll get like if you estimate like six eggs per 3:34:49.920 --> 3:34:52.280 chicken per week, it's like a fair kind of estimate. 3:34:53.280 --> 3:34:56.240 They'll take some time off during the year or with seasons, 3:34:56.360 --> 3:34:59.080 change the molten stuff. So eighteen eggs, like, yeah, you're 3:34:59.120 --> 3:35:01.160 going pretty hard in a my household, you've eating that many. 3:35:02.680 --> 3:35:05.560 So I think if you start, people like to think 3:35:05.600 --> 3:35:07.440 that they should get bantams to off with, do we 3:35:07.480 --> 3:35:10.200 know what bantams are? Non chicken understanding. I have a 3:35:10.280 --> 3:35:12.440 lot of chickens, but I don't know anything about the 3:35:12.520 --> 3:35:16.400 kind chickens. So we've had a few bantams. They're not great, 3:35:16.440 --> 3:35:18.520 to be honest, Like bantams are mostly showing birds. So 3:35:18.600 --> 3:35:20.560 it's a smaller chicken I think of, it's like a 3:35:20.640 --> 3:35:23.200 half sized chicken, right, um, And if you've seen like 3:35:23.320 --> 3:35:25.720 a really fancy and you can go ahead and google 3:35:25.800 --> 3:35:35.440 some bantams like, yeah, they're really little. Yeah, they're really pretty. 3:35:36.400 --> 3:35:38.720 I like to I like large chickens. Now, look, I 3:35:38.800 --> 3:35:41.360 don't engage in cock fighting. I think it's immoral, but 3:35:41.440 --> 3:35:44.400 I like to know theoretically if they had to, my 3:35:44.560 --> 3:35:50.560 chickens could handle themselves in a fight. Did anybody ever 3:35:50.760 --> 3:35:57.000 think Robert would be like you, I'm a big chicken Guyable, 3:35:59.200 --> 3:36:02.280 it's a yeah, you want big chickens. Some breeds to 3:36:02.360 --> 3:36:06.440 look for Orpington's like buff Orpington's and you can remember 3:36:06.480 --> 3:36:11.160 that big buff and great ass chickens. Yeah, I could 3:36:11.160 --> 3:36:13.280 get a yoke to orpingtons. Get to get a hench 3:36:13.400 --> 3:36:18.440 Rhode Island red. People in America don't say hench, but 3:36:19.040 --> 3:36:21.360 azing oh yeah, we used to have a couple of those. 3:36:22.440 --> 3:36:25.160 So so one of the things about bantams is you 3:36:25.200 --> 3:36:27.039 can't get them. Point of lace. The point of flay 3:36:27.160 --> 3:36:29.080 is when they've been sexed. Right, so you know that 3:36:29.120 --> 3:36:33.320 they're girls and they they come to you just to 3:36:33.320 --> 3:36:36.240 when they're about to lay, right, and you don't. Generally 3:36:36.320 --> 3:36:38.360 you get bantams younger and you don't get them sexed. 3:36:38.480 --> 3:36:42.480 So in our case, we had one. She she crowed 3:36:42.480 --> 3:36:44.240 a lot, so we thought she's a rooster. She wasn't. 3:36:44.440 --> 3:36:48.160 Any other one was a rooster. Um, So that's going 3:36:48.800 --> 3:36:50.840 my question, do you need to get a rooster? Also, 3:36:51.240 --> 3:36:56.720 no chicken regardless. I can't. I don't understand how that works. Okay, 3:36:56.760 --> 3:36:58.800 So the chickens are gonna lay regardless, right, that's just 3:36:59.360 --> 3:37:04.560 how they can't do. That's that's the eggs on fertilized, right. Yeah, 3:37:05.040 --> 3:37:08.920 so they won't make chickens. They will be baby Okay, 3:37:08.959 --> 3:37:11.120 I get it. It's I get it. Yeah, like a 3:37:11.240 --> 3:37:15.320 human doing it. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of 3:37:15.400 --> 3:37:19.680 like their equivalent of a menstruation effectively. Yeah. That now 3:37:20.680 --> 3:37:22.640 everything's coming back to me as far as like being 3:37:22.680 --> 3:37:25.879 in talking points. Go chickens, by the way, because chickens are, 3:37:26.280 --> 3:37:29.000 as James said, these are animals and you have to 3:37:29.040 --> 3:37:32.080 take good care of them. That is your responsibility. You 3:37:32.240 --> 3:37:34.800 do low key realize the longer you have them. But 3:37:34.840 --> 3:37:38.760 they're monsters, like their favorite food is their own kind. 3:37:39.120 --> 3:37:49.120 They have each other, kidsnosaurs. Yeah, so like, don't go 3:37:49.280 --> 3:37:52.000 outside with your chickens. Like the other day I was, 3:37:52.600 --> 3:37:55.960 I was cutting down some some bushes and I had 3:37:56.080 --> 3:37:58.760 was wearing shorts a little cut from the from the thorn. 3:37:59.240 --> 3:38:02.560 When they see blood, they are just like fucking missile. 3:38:04.000 --> 3:38:07.000 Does that affect the egg? Like? Yeah, I mean what 3:38:07.120 --> 3:38:11.000 you made them? So? Yeah, we we butchered a deer 3:38:11.520 --> 3:38:13.360 last year and we wound up with a lot of 3:38:13.480 --> 3:38:16.080 like deer fat and kind of like meat that you 3:38:16.160 --> 3:38:18.240 gave it to the chickens. Well, yeah, we had some 3:38:18.320 --> 3:38:19.840 stuff because the deer had been hit by a car. 3:38:19.959 --> 3:38:21.680 There was some meat we couldn't eat, so we would 3:38:21.720 --> 3:38:24.000 up giving several pounds of meat to the chickens and 3:38:24.120 --> 3:38:30.760 those eggs fucking ruled. Okay, it's not advised to feed them, dear, 3:38:30.959 --> 3:38:33.480 but yeah, so you wanted stuff actually if you so, 3:38:33.640 --> 3:38:35.480 they do be There's a stuff called purple spray. I'm 3:38:35.480 --> 3:38:37.160 sure it's not what it's actually called, but it's purple 3:38:37.160 --> 3:38:40.040 and it's a spray and you can we already called 3:38:40.040 --> 3:38:42.520 it purple spray. You can spray it on them and 3:38:42.600 --> 3:38:44.760 it just stops it looking like blood. I'm sure it's 3:38:44.800 --> 3:38:49.680 like an antibiotic or maybe antiseptic, but yeah, you could 3:38:49.680 --> 3:38:51.360 spray that on the chicken. So, like one of mine, 3:38:51.440 --> 3:38:53.240 she's just got this little thing on her wing that 3:38:53.480 --> 3:38:55.040 opens up every now and again, and I just make 3:38:55.080 --> 3:38:57.440 sure I spray that and that stops her from the 3:38:57.520 --> 3:39:01.360 other ones from pecking her, right, Yeah, so they have 3:39:01.520 --> 3:39:05.640 to be. We had a last year some kind of animal, 3:39:05.760 --> 3:39:08.960 I think it was probably a like a like a 3:39:09.080 --> 3:39:11.320 possum or something, I don't really know. Some kind of 3:39:11.360 --> 3:39:13.520 animal got into the coop and attacked my chickens. And 3:39:13.640 --> 3:39:16.000 we had I had one chicken. We called it the 3:39:16.040 --> 3:39:18.760 anarchists chicken because it could always escape. It like never 3:39:18.959 --> 3:39:22.360 was in the cage um. And when when they got attacked, 3:39:22.440 --> 3:39:25.200 the anarchist chicken leapt to defend the rest of the 3:39:25.280 --> 3:39:28.360 flock and fought off whatever it was it attacked. But 3:39:28.520 --> 3:39:30.640 she wound up with a hole in her side, and 3:39:30.760 --> 3:39:32.920 so I like took her and I dressed the wound, 3:39:33.160 --> 3:39:35.600 and I put her back in the cage and they 3:39:35.640 --> 3:39:40.320 all immediately tried to have a separate Yeah, yeah, yeah, 3:39:40.400 --> 3:39:42.320 I that was the lesson that I learned. I had 3:39:42.320 --> 3:39:45.240 to take her out because yeah, we have a tiny 3:39:45.360 --> 3:39:48.320 rabbit hutch that we use. It's called the Merrow Peet 3:39:48.320 --> 3:39:51.000 Memorial Chicken Hospital, because Merri, it's not about chickens who 3:39:51.040 --> 3:39:54.000 died and you. You just put put them in that 3:39:54.040 --> 3:39:55.520 for a few days until they're better, and then then 3:39:55.520 --> 3:39:59.240 they can reintegrate. It's fine. And so I did. We've we've, 3:39:59.480 --> 3:40:01.800 we've we've real little progress on my script. Okay, so sorry, 3:40:02.160 --> 3:40:04.080 you want to get buff or Pinkton's right down and 3:40:04.120 --> 3:40:06.720 reads are good. Plymouth rocks, americanas are nice. Have you 3:40:06.800 --> 3:40:10.120 guys seen those? If we don't have if we don't know, 3:40:10.200 --> 3:40:15.080 I don't know anything about talking about what do they 3:40:15.120 --> 3:40:19.440 teach you in school? Like so they're called Easter eggers. 3:40:19.520 --> 3:40:23.240 Sometimes they lay different colored eggs, like pastel colored eggs, 3:40:23.280 --> 3:40:26.200 like blue and green eggs. Have you not been exposed 3:40:26.240 --> 3:40:29.720 to this at all? No? I get up extra cornfield. 3:40:29.760 --> 3:40:33.320 But also I I guess, I guess I was a 3:40:33.440 --> 3:40:35.879 round a farm. But we didn't interact with the chickens 3:40:35.920 --> 3:40:38.160 because you don't I don't know they were like here 3:40:38.200 --> 3:40:41.480 de old cows instead, that was like, chickens are good. 3:40:41.520 --> 3:40:44.200 Don't go dive straight into cattle if you're getting into 3:40:44.240 --> 3:40:48.440 animal husband. But yeah, the americanasun say ladies colored eggs. 3:40:48.840 --> 3:40:50.360 One of my friends dad's had them when I was 3:40:50.360 --> 3:40:53.600 a kid and he made bank selling them around Easter. 3:40:54.440 --> 3:40:56.640 So yeah, if you're looking to get into your chicken hustle. 3:40:56.879 --> 3:40:59.680 And then leg horns are like really good. They're like 3:40:59.800 --> 3:41:01.760 high the chickens, but they are allowed. So if you 3:41:01.840 --> 3:41:04.720 live near people, um, I would consider not. You should 3:41:04.720 --> 3:41:06.720 also check your local laws, Like where I live, you 3:41:06.840 --> 3:41:09.520 can't have a rooster, and you can have up to 3:41:09.600 --> 3:41:11.800 five chickens within city limits. You can't have a rester. 3:41:12.120 --> 3:41:16.640 You don't really want a rooster have chicks. And one 3:41:16.680 --> 3:41:19.440 of the things roosters can do is like peck at 3:41:19.520 --> 3:41:23.200 your chickens and effectively like ware holes in there, like yeah, 3:41:23.400 --> 3:41:27.200 they wind up like parts. Yeah they're little sons of bitches. 3:41:27.240 --> 3:41:31.320 We harvested ours as soon as I got the place, 3:41:31.640 --> 3:41:36.520 and yeah, that's that's the term. This leads into a 3:41:36.600 --> 3:41:39.119 question that I've been wanting to ask, which is that Okay, 3:41:39.480 --> 3:41:41.920 it is my under is my firm belief that I 3:41:41.959 --> 3:41:43.920 could defeed a chicken in single combat. It would send 3:41:43.959 --> 3:41:45.720 me to the hospital. But apparently there's the thing you 3:41:45.800 --> 3:41:48.080 need to do with your chickens. So how how practical 3:41:48.160 --> 3:41:49.840 is it to defeed a chicken in single combat if 3:41:49.840 --> 3:41:52.440 you have to extract another chicken or something. I've never 3:41:52.560 --> 3:41:56.560 actually had any kind of aggression from my chickens. When 3:41:56.600 --> 3:41:59.120 I'm bleeding, they'll pick my leg. But yeah, yeah, yeah, 3:41:59.560 --> 3:42:03.040 how's that had a greatful while we we hadn't realized that, 3:42:03.160 --> 3:42:05.440 Like they so a thing that you want when you 3:42:05.480 --> 3:42:07.840 get chickens, as a rodent proof freeder, right, So you 3:42:07.879 --> 3:42:09.320 don't want to just put the food in the bowl 3:42:10.120 --> 3:42:11.520 if you have an issue with rodents. You want to 3:42:11.520 --> 3:42:13.760 have a thing. So like basically she comes up, she 3:42:13.879 --> 3:42:16.560 stands on a step and that opens up the feeder 3:42:16.720 --> 3:42:19.560 and she can pack and eat, right, And you want 3:42:19.600 --> 3:42:21.480 to get a rodent proof feeder, you can just buy 3:42:21.520 --> 3:42:24.800 them attractive supply. But I was gummed up with rain 3:42:24.840 --> 3:42:27.760 and we didn't realize, and the chickens are obviously not 3:42:27.760 --> 3:42:29.600 getting food. They're upset with this, so they would attack 3:42:29.680 --> 3:42:33.280 me every time I came outside, like they'd attacked me 3:42:33.320 --> 3:42:35.680 and I'd be like, go away. So I'd give them treats, right, 3:42:35.720 --> 3:42:39.640 I give them like worms and apples. A kitten has arrived, 3:42:41.720 --> 3:42:44.760 I have to she was to hold or to be held. 3:42:45.920 --> 3:42:48.120 I'm holding my cat for anyone that's like, what's happening? 3:42:49.440 --> 3:42:52.520 Or she just wanted to be snuggled. That's okay, she's 3:42:52.520 --> 3:42:56.360 given your gears. Um. Yeah, so you the mind would 3:42:56.400 --> 3:42:59.720 attack me for a while and I just gave them meal, 3:42:59.800 --> 3:43:01.800 and when they would attach me so unconsciously, I was 3:43:01.840 --> 3:43:05.680 reinforcing the attacking behavior. And so they would attack me 3:43:05.720 --> 3:43:07.240 for a while. But I think you could take and 3:43:07.560 --> 3:43:11.960 just keep swinging and yeah, you know, you don't have to. 3:43:12.040 --> 3:43:14.160 They're very like most of the time, at least mine. 3:43:14.200 --> 3:43:16.320 I hand feed them. So like a nice treat for 3:43:16.360 --> 3:43:19.560 them is I'll cut a melon in half and I'll 3:43:19.640 --> 3:43:24.680 chase Sharne because she's allergic to melons a and then 3:43:24.680 --> 3:43:26.560 you just hold it out and they'll come and eat it. Um. 3:43:27.240 --> 3:43:30.680 And they they love scraps like that's often like what 3:43:30.800 --> 3:43:33.000 I do with basically all of my food waste is 3:43:33.520 --> 3:43:35.800 give it to the chickens, and they tend to be 3:43:35.959 --> 3:43:38.480 very happy with that. Yeah, it's very it's a very 3:43:38.520 --> 3:43:41.680 sustainable thing. Let's get onto space, and I want to 3:43:41.720 --> 3:43:44.920 talk about before, before, before, before we get into this. 3:43:45.520 --> 3:43:48.600 Speaking of sustainability, do you know who else is incredibly sustainable? 3:43:49.920 --> 3:43:53.280 I don't think we can say capitalism. Yes, inherently, so 3:43:53.680 --> 3:43:57.879 shiny stuff, it will last a thousand years, all right, 3:43:58.280 --> 3:44:02.400 we'll back yea by some gold. Buy some gold. Want 3:44:02.440 --> 3:44:05.880 to reinforce that, because gold, when you're starving, will be 3:44:06.000 --> 3:44:10.360 more useful than chickens because it's shiny. That's right, that's right. 3:44:10.440 --> 3:44:13.800 It'll make you forget that you're slowly starving. And it's 3:44:13.840 --> 3:44:17.880 the foundation of all of this. Ship's shiny. Okay um, yeah, 3:44:17.959 --> 3:44:19.840 so don't have shiny things. I want to talk about 3:44:19.920 --> 3:44:24.400 chicken coopes because there's a shiny thing, secual. I love 3:44:24.440 --> 3:44:27.440 a good coop. I do love. Have to make a coop. 3:44:27.800 --> 3:44:29.200 I'd have to buy a cooper, have to help my 3:44:29.240 --> 3:44:32.840 friends buy coopes. It's just it's it's a great conversation 3:44:32.920 --> 3:44:34.840 area anyway. So they do need a coupe. They need 3:44:34.879 --> 3:44:36.680 a place where they can go at night. And you 3:44:36.720 --> 3:44:38.520 want it to be shut off from predators, right, So 3:44:38.600 --> 3:44:42.120 you don't want your possum, your raccoon and your fox, 3:44:42.240 --> 3:44:47.600 your stout, your weasel, fare whatever whatever you're dealing with snake. Um. So, 3:44:48.000 --> 3:44:50.720 once you get above three chickens, you might have more 3:44:50.720 --> 3:44:53.720 than one nesting box in there. But like this doesn't 3:44:53.760 --> 3:44:55.560 necessarily mean that you need to go out and buy 3:44:56.200 --> 3:44:57.840 Like you can buy them on Amazon now, but they're 3:44:57.879 --> 3:45:00.280 quite expensive and they're often quite ship like the the 3:45:00.360 --> 3:45:02.840 pre made chicken coops are very poor quality. Like if 3:45:02.920 --> 3:45:07.000 you have a shed or a kennel or something like that, 3:45:07.160 --> 3:45:08.800 you can pretty easily make it into a coop and 3:45:08.920 --> 3:45:10.320 you can just put a drop down door on the 3:45:10.360 --> 3:45:11.920 front so you can close them in at night and 3:45:12.000 --> 3:45:15.640 let them out in the morning. And or I've seen 3:45:15.680 --> 3:45:18.600 people use like drawers, you know, like like dresses, just 3:45:18.760 --> 3:45:21.880 open those and use them as nesting boxes. Well, you 3:45:21.920 --> 3:45:24.119 want to put down some straw in your nesting books, 3:45:24.400 --> 3:45:27.680 And yeah, I have I have I think four for 3:45:28.600 --> 3:45:31.320 the chickens that I have now, which is about I 3:45:31.360 --> 3:45:35.000 think we've got about eleven, um, which and there they 3:45:35.040 --> 3:45:36.840 are two of them are large enough for two at 3:45:36.879 --> 3:45:39.080 a time, and then two of them are smaller. Although 3:45:39.680 --> 3:45:41.520 chickens all and and sometimes one of the thems you 3:45:41.600 --> 3:45:44.080 have to do occasionally is come in and like take 3:45:44.120 --> 3:45:46.600 them out of some of them out of the nesting boxes. 3:45:46.640 --> 3:45:48.560 Some of them get like stuck in a loop. Where 3:45:48.680 --> 3:45:51.680 did they get broody? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so you 3:45:51.760 --> 3:45:53.480 just I just like take them out and set them 3:45:53.520 --> 3:45:55.720 down where there's like some stuff to peck at, and 3:45:55.959 --> 3:45:59.040 they seem to it kind of resets their little chicken brains. 3:45:59.400 --> 3:46:02.160 Silkkey bantems, which are one of the like show bantams 3:46:02.360 --> 3:46:05.240 get broody as fun and it's like I've had friends 3:46:05.280 --> 3:46:06.760 who have had them, and they will they will not 3:46:06.879 --> 3:46:08.720 eat and not drink because it's just like no, I'm 3:46:08.760 --> 3:46:11.440 sitting on this egg, like you can't stop me, and 3:46:11.520 --> 3:46:13.320 you have to lock them out of there. There's not 3:46:13.400 --> 3:46:15.520 even an egg there, chicken, what's wrong with you? Yeah, 3:46:16.320 --> 3:46:19.800 well they'll take another chicken's egg. Yeah, just yeah. Or 3:46:19.879 --> 3:46:25.119 even like silky it's cute. Look them up there, they're real, 3:46:25.320 --> 3:46:28.120 they're fluords. They're very cute. So you want to build 3:46:28.160 --> 3:46:29.760 them a run to write a place where they can 3:46:29.760 --> 3:46:31.320 say if you run around and have their food, have 3:46:31.400 --> 3:46:36.160 their water. And I would suggest using construction netting when 3:46:36.160 --> 3:46:38.320 you build a run. Broy that people called chicken wire, 3:46:38.400 --> 3:46:41.720 which is like maybe one inch size holes, but like 3:46:41.800 --> 3:46:43.680 a lot of stuff can get through that. You'd be amazed, 3:46:43.760 --> 3:46:46.320 like rats, my snakes can all get through that. And 3:46:47.040 --> 3:46:49.960 use construction netting, which is like maybe I'm not very 3:46:50.000 --> 3:46:53.360 good at inches, but like about one centimeter size a 3:46:53.400 --> 3:46:55.640 lot less. He's going to get through it. And you 3:46:55.720 --> 3:46:57.840 might want to bury it down to like a foot 3:46:57.879 --> 3:46:59.879 or two below the run if you're building something perm 3:47:00.360 --> 3:47:03.280 just because things can't dig underneath, right like a we 3:47:03.360 --> 3:47:06.119 had a fox stick underneath when I was a kid, 3:47:06.520 --> 3:47:09.000 and don't it's preferable to do that to putting on 3:47:09.080 --> 3:47:10.720 the floor of your run because they don't like the 3:47:10.760 --> 3:47:13.960 little wire on the little feet and yeah, no, no, 3:47:14.200 --> 3:47:16.920 definitely not on the You want them to have access 3:47:17.240 --> 3:47:21.120 to dirt and ideally sometimes grass too. One thing that 3:47:21.240 --> 3:47:24.200 they because I I will let them out sometimes during 3:47:24.280 --> 3:47:27.000 the day and I have a barn that has like 3:47:27.520 --> 3:47:29.959 like it's kind of dust in there, like not dust 3:47:30.040 --> 3:47:33.840 um almost like almost like sandy dry dirt. And one 3:47:33.920 --> 3:47:36.480 of their favorite things, especially during the summer, is to 3:47:36.640 --> 3:47:40.480 just kind of like sit down and rub, yeah that 3:47:40.640 --> 3:47:42.959 making it all up in the like, and they kind 3:47:42.959 --> 3:47:44.880 of need to be able to do some version of 3:47:44.959 --> 3:47:48.040 that in order to be like healthy. Otherwise they Yeah, 3:47:48.120 --> 3:47:50.040 it's it's good for them, it's good for their skin, 3:47:50.160 --> 3:47:53.680 it's good for them existing. Yeah, it's good for their 3:47:53.760 --> 3:47:56.040 mental health. I think that like people keep kicking their 3:47:56.160 --> 3:47:59.360 terrible conditions commercially. But it doesn't mean you have an 3:47:59.400 --> 3:48:02.400 excuse to say. When I when I got these chickens, 3:48:02.520 --> 3:48:04.160 they had been the people who'd have them before. I 3:48:04.160 --> 3:48:05.920 don't know what the funk was wrong with them. They 3:48:06.000 --> 3:48:09.720 had a sizeable outside run, but whoever, the folks who 3:48:09.840 --> 3:48:13.360 had them had covered the entire bottom in stone, so 3:48:13.480 --> 3:48:17.120 they were just like living on stone when we know 3:48:17.320 --> 3:48:19.360 they were. They were in a horrible shape. And when 3:48:19.360 --> 3:48:22.800 I when we harvested the rooster, his gizzard was full 3:48:22.840 --> 3:48:26.640 of automotive glass, Like, yeah, it was fucked up. It 3:48:26.760 --> 3:48:29.080 was I spent because they all had they all had 3:48:29.200 --> 3:48:32.880 huge patches of them that like we're bald um. I 3:48:32.920 --> 3:48:35.400 mean we we we dealt with that, partially by getting 3:48:35.480 --> 3:48:38.160 rid of the rooster and partially by making sure we 3:48:38.280 --> 3:48:41.000 gave them. I was I still do mix in um 3:48:42.040 --> 3:48:47.000 oyster shell bits with the calcium is good for them. Yeah, 3:48:47.200 --> 3:48:50.279 so you'll know if they need that, like they stopped 3:48:50.320 --> 3:48:52.600 coming and he starts to really dangerous, like an egg 3:48:52.720 --> 3:48:55.240 can rupture inside if they're laying it, and that can 3:48:55.280 --> 3:48:58.119 be fatal. So you want to make sure, um, if 3:48:58.120 --> 3:48:59.840 we just we can have a few quickly, I guess. 3:49:00.080 --> 3:49:02.080 So they do like to grub for worms and stuff 3:49:02.120 --> 3:49:04.200 like that, right, look for insects, and they love to 3:49:04.280 --> 3:49:06.560 have scraps. But for laying chicken, you want to make 3:49:06.560 --> 3:49:09.280 sure it's getting a decent based diet of layers pellets, 3:49:09.320 --> 3:49:12.960 which should be like somewhere between six protein which sorry, 3:49:13.040 --> 3:49:16.040 what what kind of pellets? Layer pellets. Yeah, there's a 3:49:16.160 --> 3:49:19.840 number of brands of it, but yeah, they're called layer pellets. Yeah, 3:49:20.240 --> 3:49:22.800 some of them will already have oyster shell and grit, 3:49:23.240 --> 3:49:25.120 and like Robert said, they do need those. If not, 3:49:25.280 --> 3:49:27.680 you can augment them, but it's probably gonna be easier 3:49:27.680 --> 3:49:30.240 to just get one sack and just dump it all in. 3:49:31.760 --> 3:49:34.040 They do need access to water as well that they 3:49:34.080 --> 3:49:36.400 can get out all day. I think it's better to 3:49:36.480 --> 3:49:40.400 use like a nipple type drinker, which is a you 3:49:40.440 --> 3:49:42.320 can take a bucket, any bucket, right, fill it up, 3:49:42.520 --> 3:49:43.960 and then you put these little nipples and they just 3:49:44.040 --> 3:49:45.880 get their red and again they like to peck at 3:49:45.920 --> 3:49:47.440 red stuff, so they'll peck at them and then they 3:49:47.520 --> 3:49:50.400 get and that stops. Like you know, they can't put 3:49:50.440 --> 3:49:52.320 their feet in the water and get their ship from 3:49:52.320 --> 3:49:54.040 their feet in the water and get sick, like then 3:49:54.080 --> 3:49:56.800 they're not clean animals. So just if you do that. 3:49:57.040 --> 3:49:58.280 And then I like to put a little bit. It's 3:49:58.320 --> 3:49:59.880 hot where I live in San Diego, so I put 3:50:00.000 --> 3:50:01.960 a bit of electrolyte stuff in there for them and 3:50:02.480 --> 3:50:05.680 they don't seem to mind. It just seems to help um. 3:50:06.720 --> 3:50:09.600 And then yeah, like it's it's good to you can 3:50:09.720 --> 3:50:11.840 feed them kitchen straps, but you don't want to overload them, 3:50:11.920 --> 3:50:15.240 especially on carb stuff, like they do need enough protein 3:50:15.720 --> 3:50:18.280 to keep up their laying and they definitely need enough calcium. 3:50:18.720 --> 3:50:21.720 And one thing I would say if you're if you're 3:50:21.720 --> 3:50:23.400 going to buy something, if you're going to buy a 3:50:23.520 --> 3:50:27.280 chicken coop, there's a company called egg Glue, which is 3:50:27.440 --> 3:50:30.640 like iglobe egg. They make some really nice pre fab 3:50:30.720 --> 3:50:33.880 coops that are pretty good. And you can buy an 3:50:33.920 --> 3:50:37.400 attachment which puts a little door on it that it 3:50:37.560 --> 3:50:40.080 uses a solar panel I guess to charge itself and 3:50:40.200 --> 3:50:43.880 then it will open at daylight and close at sunset, 3:50:44.120 --> 3:50:46.360 and so if you're the sort of person who knows that, 3:50:46.400 --> 3:50:49.160 you'll forget to bring your chickens in. Obviously they're you know, 3:50:49.280 --> 3:50:51.400 they're at risk at night from predation and things, and 3:50:51.480 --> 3:50:55.120 they become completely fucking useless at night that when they 3:50:55.160 --> 3:50:56.440 go to sleep, you can pick them up and turn 3:50:56.480 --> 3:51:00.160 them upside down and just like, yeah, my in here, 3:51:00.240 --> 3:51:03.160 you're the interior of my coupe has. It's really cute. 3:51:03.640 --> 3:51:06.120 It's basically like a ladder, like a like a very 3:51:06.280 --> 3:51:08.920 wide ladder going up the side of the building and 3:51:09.000 --> 3:51:12.440 they just all stand on like it's like a group 3:51:12.480 --> 3:51:15.120 of twenty like a different levels of the ladder just 3:51:15.760 --> 3:51:18.480 sit there as they as they sleep at night. Yeah, 3:51:18.880 --> 3:51:21.360 they need to steep on Actually that's a good yea 3:51:21.400 --> 3:51:24.480 good mind. You can't just on the floor. Yeah, they 3:51:24.520 --> 3:51:27.440 don't like just being in the dirt and then like 3:51:27.520 --> 3:51:29.720 something to entertain them. So a good thing to entertain 3:51:29.800 --> 3:51:34.000 them is like if you have CDs. Still, young listeners 3:51:34.040 --> 3:51:37.080 may not remember having CD collections, but if you if 3:51:37.120 --> 3:51:39.600 you do have CDs, or you know you can find 3:51:39.680 --> 3:51:42.680 c ds, you can just hang those and then they'll 3:51:42.720 --> 3:51:44.400 pack at them and stuff because they're kind of shiny 3:51:44.440 --> 3:51:46.480 and they move around. So it's the thing to do 3:51:46.600 --> 3:51:49.880 with your lattice. Marseilles. They also really like, I mean 3:51:49.960 --> 3:51:52.120 one of the things that so I just tore out 3:51:52.200 --> 3:51:55.040 my what was left of my front lawn in order 3:51:55.120 --> 3:51:57.760 to grow more stuff, and I just tossed all of 3:51:57.840 --> 3:52:02.200 the the chunks of like so oil and and and there. 3:52:02.280 --> 3:52:04.560 They love pecking at that ship. It's like one of 3:52:04.640 --> 3:52:07.120 their favorite things in the world. Yeah, we put them on. 3:52:07.320 --> 3:52:10.680 I have some planters out back and they're like fen 3:52:10.720 --> 3:52:12.800 stuff the chickens car and then when we turn them 3:52:12.840 --> 3:52:15.000 over and we like replant them, we'll put them in 3:52:15.080 --> 3:52:17.240 there and they just go have and they find these 3:52:17.360 --> 3:52:19.440 huge worms. So I have no idea how they got 3:52:19.480 --> 3:52:22.640 in there, but yeah, they love that stuff. Yeah, and 3:52:22.680 --> 3:52:24.640 I let him out into the yard periodically, and it's 3:52:24.640 --> 3:52:26.880 always whenever I have to like walk them back in 3:52:26.920 --> 3:52:29.120 because you kind of just like loop around them to 3:52:29.280 --> 3:52:32.120 like guide the flock as they move, because they'll kind 3:52:32.160 --> 3:52:36.040 of instinctively go away from you if you're walking towards them. Um. 3:52:36.920 --> 3:52:39.520 One of my one of my hobbies is to like 3:52:39.760 --> 3:52:46.080 pretend to be an old feel like we should stop 3:52:46.160 --> 3:52:55.160 this immediately, buy some gold. Okay, sometimes I pretend it's 3:52:55.160 --> 3:52:58.360 the Shawshank Redemption, which is where I'm giving my chickens 3:52:59.360 --> 3:53:03.400 boat by the coast. It's kind of go and show 3:53:03.440 --> 3:53:05.720 us why hold in this bed sheet? All of us 3:53:05.840 --> 3:53:10.640 love having health insurance? Plea, can I can I ask 3:53:10.680 --> 3:53:15.440 a question about space? So like how much physical room 3:53:15.640 --> 3:53:17.680 do they need? Like how much line do you have 3:53:17.760 --> 3:53:19.800 to have? So you can look at there are pretty 3:53:19.800 --> 3:53:22.560 good like calculators online. We can look at how many 3:53:22.600 --> 3:53:25.000 square yards or whatever you have. But I'm terrible at 3:53:25.080 --> 3:53:28.120 estimating size. But you know, my, my, I dn't have 3:53:28.240 --> 3:53:30.360 very big garden. You know, we've we've had up to 3:53:30.440 --> 3:53:33.720 six chickens. But you do want to just look it up. 3:53:33.880 --> 3:53:37.720 And it's not like the square yardage you have isn't 3:53:37.720 --> 3:53:40.440 as important as the access they have to stuff? Right? Yeah? 3:53:41.160 --> 3:53:44.080 Can they get sunlight? Can they be like out in 3:53:44.440 --> 3:53:48.680 in like something that feels like you know where a 3:53:48.760 --> 3:53:51.600 chicken would want to be? But this is this is 3:53:51.680 --> 3:53:53.800 this is like not something you can run from an apartment, right, 3:53:54.360 --> 3:53:58.080 No need to be outside. Yeah, if you live in 3:53:58.120 --> 3:54:00.520 an apartment that like has a yard it or something 3:54:00.600 --> 3:54:02.840 that shared, you potentially could, but no, you you do 3:54:03.000 --> 3:54:06.840 need like some amount of dirt and grass. Essentially, if 3:54:06.880 --> 3:54:08.960 you maybe have like a community garden, you could talk 3:54:08.960 --> 3:54:11.800 to people about doing it. They're like them, So mine 3:54:11.840 --> 3:54:15.040 just go all around my yard all day and like, uh, 3:54:15.680 --> 3:54:18.320 you guys have noticed also coming to my office. Um, 3:54:18.880 --> 3:54:21.400 and then they'll put themselves to bed at night, and 3:54:21.560 --> 3:54:23.720 they know where their home is so that they'll just 3:54:23.800 --> 3:54:26.000 go back to bed at night. And I want to 3:54:26.040 --> 3:54:28.440 talk a little bit about health, because there are definitely 3:54:28.480 --> 3:54:32.840 some chicken health things and just it's very expensive stake 3:54:32.920 --> 3:54:34.400 chicken to the vet actually because you have to go 3:54:34.440 --> 3:54:36.440 to an exotic and avian vet, and they're quite rare 3:54:38.640 --> 3:54:42.640 exotic and avian vet. You could take them to a 3:54:42.680 --> 3:54:45.160 regular vet, but most of the time, so actually, if 3:54:45.160 --> 3:54:47.920 your chickens get sick, in most states, there's a state 3:54:48.000 --> 3:54:51.080 run helpline you can call and it's free and they'll 3:54:51.120 --> 3:54:54.120 put you onto a vet right away and they're very 3:54:54.320 --> 3:54:57.240 very helpful. And then the reason because of the danger 3:54:57.400 --> 3:55:00.760 of different avian flues like infecting arge. Numbers of of 3:55:01.080 --> 3:55:05.560 of animals. Yeah does does something similar to pet insurance 3:55:05.600 --> 3:55:09.520 exists for farm peep farm animals or not really it does, 3:55:09.680 --> 3:55:11.600 but I don't think you probably wouldn't want to be 3:55:11.720 --> 3:55:13.720 investing it out for your chickens. I give you. If 3:55:13.720 --> 3:55:16.560 you're breeding livestock, and that's the thing you can have, 3:55:17.040 --> 3:55:19.480 um And you know, one of the things you do 3:55:19.640 --> 3:55:22.160 have to keep in mind is that at some point 3:55:22.360 --> 3:55:25.040 you will have to kill them, um, you know, because 3:55:25.080 --> 3:55:28.160 they will get old enough or sick enough, and some 3:55:28.360 --> 3:55:31.920 form of euthanasia will wind up being kinder than continuing 3:55:32.000 --> 3:55:35.280 to like let them be um. Like, That's just that's 3:55:35.320 --> 3:55:37.720 true of any kind of livestock, right, at some point 3:55:38.320 --> 3:55:40.760 you have to if you don't just want to let 3:55:40.840 --> 3:55:44.200 it die naturally, which again in a lot of cases, 3:55:44.240 --> 3:55:46.760 will be prolonging and suffering. You you do have to 3:55:46.840 --> 3:55:48.880 be willing to take care of that one way or 3:55:48.920 --> 3:55:51.120 the other. Yeah, Like you can give them the best 3:55:51.160 --> 3:55:52.800 life you can give them and look aft for them 3:55:52.840 --> 3:55:54.600 as you can. But often times here they will or 3:55:54.600 --> 3:55:57.080 they'll get hurt, right like if some yes, they'll get injured. 3:55:58.520 --> 3:56:00.520 I think that's a good reality to my people love that. 3:56:00.600 --> 3:56:03.120 It's like it's actually like a serious thing to have 3:56:03.200 --> 3:56:05.720 a chicken and then be responsible for its life and death. 3:56:05.800 --> 3:56:09.440 And also like the egg comes out of their butth hole, right, 3:56:09.480 --> 3:56:14.320 so it's covered. Well, it's it's not just like cartoon 3:56:14.440 --> 3:56:17.480 and chicken laying, you know what I mean, Like I think, yeah, 3:56:17.680 --> 3:56:20.440 it's not ago um, but it's not that game they 3:56:20.440 --> 3:56:22.320 everyone playing in COVID where you're in the island and 3:56:22.360 --> 3:56:25.400 you build stuff and yeah, I just think people usually 3:56:25.400 --> 3:56:28.560 are really flipping with stuff like like, yeah, you know, 3:56:28.680 --> 3:56:30.640 it's a living animal, and like you have to take 3:56:30.680 --> 3:56:32.600 care of it, and it's your responsibility right at the storm, 3:56:32.640 --> 3:56:35.400 Like you need to think about that. You don't want 3:56:35.400 --> 3:56:37.680 to let the bumbholes get too poopy. We're talking about health, 3:56:37.840 --> 3:56:39.880 so they can get worms that way, and that's really bad. 3:56:40.160 --> 3:56:42.080 So if you see that, just just pick them up 3:56:42.080 --> 3:56:43.880 and they'll be And that's this is why you want 3:56:43.920 --> 3:56:45.680 to handle them when they're young, so that you can 3:56:45.800 --> 3:56:48.280 handle them with stuff like this. So like I'll pick 3:56:48.320 --> 3:56:49.880 them up and use a spray bottle or a little 3:56:49.960 --> 3:56:52.120 hose with a bit of warm water and and they 3:56:52.160 --> 3:56:54.880 they don't mind that at all, and at least they 3:56:54.960 --> 3:56:57.240 don't give me any ship. But you want to look 3:56:57.360 --> 3:56:59.400 up some of the common things you're going to see. 3:57:00.360 --> 3:57:04.280 Gape worm. It's called gape one because they'll gape you 3:57:04.440 --> 3:57:08.240 you'll see them gaping. They can be egg bound, and 3:57:08.360 --> 3:57:09.920 then depending on where you are right, they can be 3:57:10.000 --> 3:57:11.920 too hot too cold. You do need to make sure 3:57:11.960 --> 3:57:16.360 they have shade. I found this thing, um, I found 3:57:16.400 --> 3:57:18.480 it someone was moving out. It's like a it's like 3:57:18.560 --> 3:57:21.240 a mister, but like they have at restaurants. You know 3:57:21.280 --> 3:57:22.800 when you go to a restaurant in l A and 3:57:22.840 --> 3:57:28.560 it's hot and seven annoying wetness. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, 3:57:29.040 --> 3:57:30.880 I've ever been to like an amusement park and like 3:57:31.000 --> 3:57:33.040 a like a line and they sometimes have them too 3:57:34.520 --> 3:57:38.120 sometimes in the like fruit and vegetables when there. But 3:57:38.200 --> 3:57:48.440 that's the only that's restaurants, not inside outside misters to 3:57:48.840 --> 3:57:53.040 make it if you're in Phoenix or somewhere, yeah, yeah, yeah, 3:57:53.120 --> 3:57:54.960 so I've got one of those. And you can find 3:57:55.040 --> 3:57:56.760 lots of ship by the way, like if you're if 3:57:56.760 --> 3:58:00.600 you live in a place that's gentrifying, like unfortunly has 3:58:00.640 --> 3:58:03.160 happened in the park San Diego I live in. Like like, 3:58:03.280 --> 3:58:05.160 for instance, all the wood for my chicken keeping pay 3:58:05.160 --> 3:58:08.560 for their ship. Like there's rich people doing stuff to houses. 3:58:08.600 --> 3:58:10.640 It doesn't need to be done, just like obtain wood 3:58:10.640 --> 3:58:17.440 from their building sites. Yeah, and obtain it's it's it's 3:58:17.480 --> 3:58:19.040 like those powles of bricks, and they didn't want you 3:58:19.080 --> 3:58:21.080 to use them. They wouldn't leave it out there. Yeah, 3:58:21.240 --> 3:58:22.920 and why I would live with Warren have sent the 3:58:22.920 --> 3:58:25.600 pallets of bricks if you didn't want to use so 3:58:26.440 --> 3:58:29.560 uh yeah obviously, Like healthwise, like I said, you want 3:58:29.600 --> 3:58:31.360 to make sure you have that purple spray on hand. 3:58:31.840 --> 3:58:35.720 You want to be giving them some electrolytes and their water. 3:58:35.920 --> 3:58:37.320 You want to make sure they have shade if it's 3:58:37.360 --> 3:58:39.880 hot and their coop is warm, like they don't like 3:58:39.960 --> 3:58:43.880 it much below freezing. Like yeah, I keep like a 3:58:43.960 --> 3:58:47.480 heat lamp basically all winter in there with a red 3:58:47.560 --> 3:58:51.680 bulb so it doesn't like upset their their sleep patterns. Yeah. People, 3:58:51.920 --> 3:58:54.160 the way battery people do it, like battery chickens is 3:58:54.240 --> 3:58:59.280 they they they do more day night cycles using artificial 3:58:59.360 --> 3:59:01.080 light to to make the chickens lay more if you 3:59:01.120 --> 3:59:02.800 see what I mean, and the chickens will lay an 3:59:02.800 --> 3:59:07.120 accelerated rate. I'll keep them laying during the winter. Be 3:59:07.400 --> 3:59:10.360 doing that that's not particularly good for the birds. And 3:59:10.680 --> 3:59:13.400 I let them rest this winter. Yeah, let them. You 3:59:13.520 --> 3:59:16.160 know there their animals, they you know, they don't just 3:59:16.240 --> 3:59:19.520 exist to provide your food. Like a question on this, 3:59:19.680 --> 3:59:23.200 like how cold is there like a point it gets 3:59:23.240 --> 3:59:25.480 in the winter where it's like you probably shouldn't have them. 3:59:26.280 --> 3:59:28.480 We just want to keep the coup warm. And then 3:59:29.000 --> 3:59:33.400 like so like when we were at Tenacious Unicorn ranch, 3:59:33.560 --> 3:59:37.120 right and they have chickens. I don't know how cold 3:59:37.120 --> 3:59:39.560 it was, but I went to bed every night with 3:59:39.680 --> 3:59:42.840 analgene full of boiling water and when I woke up, 3:59:42.880 --> 3:59:46.520 I was hugging an ice baby like it was yeah, 3:59:46.760 --> 3:59:49.040 the heat so where I was staying and work the 3:59:49.120 --> 3:59:52.240 first time, so it was called a f and the 3:59:52.320 --> 3:59:54.360 chickens had a nice warm coupe with a heat lamp 3:59:54.360 --> 3:59:56.920 and they were fine. Yeah you can. I mean people 3:59:57.040 --> 4:00:01.440 keep chickens in every imaginable climates, so as long as 4:00:01.520 --> 4:00:04.520 you're careful about making sure you know that you have 4:00:04.680 --> 4:00:07.400 a warm place for them to sleep, they will be okay. Yeah, 4:00:07.560 --> 4:00:09.480 and you can can Can you let them out in 4:00:09.520 --> 4:00:12.000 the snow and stuff or should you? Yeah? You know, 4:00:12.560 --> 4:00:15.240 yeah they have fun with that. There's it's snowed yesterday 4:00:15.280 --> 4:00:17.680 and my chickens are having a great time out. Yeah, 4:00:18.000 --> 4:00:20.480 they like you actually, like they'll run like I remember 4:00:20.480 --> 4:00:23.840 at home this snow and yeah, and talks when you're 4:00:23.840 --> 4:00:26.480 buying the chickens, right, like, consider that in your breed choice, 4:00:26.600 --> 4:00:29.240 like something going to do, and they're going to do. 4:00:29.360 --> 4:00:31.840 Some of them are gonna not like heat and honestly, 4:00:31.960 --> 4:00:33.880 like one of the better things you can do in 4:00:34.000 --> 4:00:36.040 that situation. If you're like if I live in some 4:00:36.280 --> 4:00:38.480 weird ass part of the world where it's freezing half 4:00:38.520 --> 4:00:43.480 the time, just google like keeping backyard chickens whatever the 4:00:43.600 --> 4:00:47.240 name of your area is, and then Reddit and yeah, 4:00:47.560 --> 4:00:50.160 you will find people talking on yeah, yeah, I've gotten 4:00:50.160 --> 4:00:51.520 this is the this is the breed that I picked, 4:00:51.560 --> 4:00:53.720 and this is what I do, and people love to 4:00:53.920 --> 4:00:56.440 talk about the chicken. So yeah, brack your chickens read 4:00:56.440 --> 4:00:59.080 it was one of my resources exactly. It's a good 4:00:59.120 --> 4:01:01.280 place to look. And yeah, so if you have a 4:01:01.280 --> 4:01:03.120 cute you're gonna want to clean it, right, you can 4:01:03.240 --> 4:01:06.320 use that chicken pooper's fertilizers some of the best in 4:01:06.400 --> 4:01:09.560 the world. So then if you're if you're into this 4:01:09.640 --> 4:01:12.000 sort of you know, like growing your own food and 4:01:12.160 --> 4:01:14.520 this all works well, right, you give the chicken to scraps. 4:01:14.600 --> 4:01:17.360 Chickens make you eggs, a poop you put that into 4:01:17.400 --> 4:01:19.360 your plants. You have nice plants. You want to balance 4:01:19.400 --> 4:01:21.440 it out. It's a bit acidic, I think just using 4:01:21.480 --> 4:01:24.040 the ship, so you want to be combusting with other 4:01:24.080 --> 4:01:27.080 stuff as well, right, checking your soil chemistry before you 4:01:27.200 --> 4:01:30.480 sort of go ham But yes, you can do that. 4:01:30.600 --> 4:01:32.480 You do want to make sure. Yeah, I've got the 4:01:32.520 --> 4:01:35.360 poultry helpline. We spoke about that. California's is great though, Like, 4:01:35.480 --> 4:01:39.080 don't hesitate to call the poultry helpline if you need help, 4:01:39.160 --> 4:01:42.040 Like there's there's people who are being paid to help you, 4:01:42.160 --> 4:01:45.600 and that it's normally like I know, like most pet owners, 4:01:45.920 --> 4:01:48.160 unless they're very wealthy, will have had to make horrible 4:01:48.200 --> 4:01:50.600 decisions about their pets health versus their own income when 4:01:50.760 --> 4:01:53.880 when they've like you know, and it's it's ship. So 4:01:54.160 --> 4:01:56.800 that helpline is free, and like Robert said, it's because 4:01:57.160 --> 4:02:00.360 they're very scared of infectious diseases. So taken by mounteage 4:02:00.400 --> 4:02:03.640 of like your you know, taxpayer funded chicken fat. Yeah, 4:02:04.120 --> 4:02:06.600 give him a call. Um, I think I don't know 4:02:06.720 --> 4:02:08.200 he's hid every state, but I know it's a lot 4:02:08.200 --> 4:02:12.320 of them. And yeah, go ahead, Oh um, are you 4:02:12.400 --> 4:02:16.040 going to talk about U giving them, like the shake 4:02:16.120 --> 4:02:19.880 and bake treatment for uh what do you call it? Um? 4:02:21.280 --> 4:02:25.360 If they get uh mites? Oh yeah, yeah, go and 4:02:25.480 --> 4:02:27.600 go ahead and talk about it. So you know, chickens 4:02:27.680 --> 4:02:29.760 can get there's like a skin but it's it's it's 4:02:30.360 --> 4:02:33.080 it's functions similarly to like a skin infection. There's like 4:02:33.160 --> 4:02:36.360 little mites that will get on them. You'll notice bald patches. 4:02:36.600 --> 4:02:39.280 It can be I mean, it's bad for their health obviously, 4:02:39.400 --> 4:02:41.720 like you would not want to be covered in mites. 4:02:42.240 --> 4:02:45.480 And so there's um. There's this kind of mite killer 4:02:45.560 --> 4:02:49.120 called promethrin um and the way that you you can 4:02:49.160 --> 4:02:50.760 apply it in a number of ways, but you basically 4:02:50.840 --> 4:02:53.280 need to coat the entire chicken. It's essentially a white powder. 4:02:53.600 --> 4:02:55.000 So what we did when we had to do it 4:02:55.120 --> 4:02:57.160 is we just took a giant a large feedbag and 4:02:57.240 --> 4:02:59.800 we filled it with promethrin, and we we put the 4:03:00.080 --> 4:03:01.480 cans in it once at a time and just kind 4:03:01.520 --> 4:03:03.560 of like give them a little shake so they got covered. 4:03:04.880 --> 4:03:06.840 You've shaken baking all of them, and then they're just 4:03:06.960 --> 4:03:10.080 like wandering around confused and covered in this white powder. 4:03:10.160 --> 4:03:14.080 Like what the funk happened? It's very funny that it's 4:03:14.240 --> 4:03:16.640 very fun. Um. I mean, it's just it's the best 4:03:16.680 --> 4:03:18.840 way because they get covered very goodly that way. Like 4:03:19.240 --> 4:03:22.520 there's you know, with mites and dust and stuff. You 4:03:22.560 --> 4:03:24.040 do want to make sure that where they're living is 4:03:24.120 --> 4:03:26.600 not too moist or not too dusty. They can get 4:03:26.840 --> 4:03:30.160 respiratory conditions from that, so you don't, Yeah, you want 4:03:30.200 --> 4:03:31.840 to make sure that you know they're living in a 4:03:31.920 --> 4:03:35.160 nice environment and they also like the biggest health thing 4:03:35.160 --> 4:03:36.520 you're going to see is so they will peck at 4:03:36.560 --> 4:03:38.480 each other, right, especially when you first get your birds 4:03:38.520 --> 4:03:41.040 are gonna establish what it's called a pecking order, and 4:03:41.360 --> 4:03:44.040 which you know people have used, heard and use an advantage, 4:03:44.280 --> 4:03:46.120 an order in which they get well, I didn't know 4:03:46.360 --> 4:03:50.040 the meeting. I didn't understand what that meant completely until 4:03:50.440 --> 4:03:54.440 right now this moment. It's my gift to helpful today. 4:03:54.480 --> 4:03:57.680 It's a lot of a lot of learning. Yeah, it's 4:03:57.720 --> 4:04:01.680 what they call a knowledge transfer. The Yeah, so that 4:04:01.760 --> 4:04:03.600 they'll do that, they'll pick right, they'll establishing a when 4:04:03.600 --> 4:04:05.160 you get a new bird, you don't really want to 4:04:05.160 --> 4:04:07.880 introduce one new bird at once, right, So say this 4:04:08.000 --> 4:04:10.680 is how you get fucking conned into having bantams because 4:04:10.760 --> 4:04:13.600 Let's say your your garden can support four chickens, and 4:04:13.680 --> 4:04:16.160 then one of your girls dies and you're sad and 4:04:16.240 --> 4:04:17.720 you want to get more birds. So you're like, well, 4:04:17.800 --> 4:04:20.280 we can't, we can't go to five full size chickens. 4:04:20.280 --> 4:04:23.000 We'll get bantam for like two half sized chickens. And 4:04:23.120 --> 4:04:25.320 that that is good for the social dynamic because they 4:04:25.360 --> 4:04:27.520 weren't one won't get picked on, one won't be like 4:04:27.600 --> 4:04:30.160 the new girl, and then they pick on her. But 4:04:30.240 --> 4:04:32.200 then you've got bantams and then you you just I 4:04:32.200 --> 4:04:34.960 don't know, I'm not no, it's not very pro bantam 4:04:35.320 --> 4:04:39.040 and they're just difficult. So how do they establish the 4:04:39.080 --> 4:04:40.960 pecking order? They pack at each other and peck at 4:04:40.960 --> 4:04:44.080 each other. Yeah, and well basically one of the well 4:04:44.120 --> 4:04:46.800 it's just like any other, like physical confrontation, like they 4:04:46.880 --> 4:04:48.520 peck at each other and like, okay, well you're harder 4:04:48.520 --> 4:04:50.520 than me, Like I can't you know, I'm not here 4:04:50.560 --> 4:04:54.120 for that. The back down. Sometimes they will really start 4:04:54.160 --> 4:04:56.000 picking on one and then you do have to separate 4:04:56.080 --> 4:04:58.680 them for a while. Um, so I think that you've 4:04:58.720 --> 4:05:00.120 got to watch out for that. And you've got be 4:05:00.200 --> 4:05:01.720 venger and when you first get them, you're going to 4:05:01.760 --> 4:05:03.440 be excited and you're gonna want to go outside and 4:05:03.480 --> 4:05:06.040 they interact with him, so you know you'll be watching 4:05:06.080 --> 4:05:08.480 that anyway. So just make sure you have treats and 4:05:08.520 --> 4:05:11.800 stuff and separate them and don't be scared. They can't 4:05:11.880 --> 4:05:15.160 hurt you. They do chickens, but um yeah, it's normal 4:05:15.160 --> 4:05:16.840 oftenm to peck at each other. You've gotta keep an 4:05:16.840 --> 4:05:19.280 eye out for if they do draw blood. I said, 4:05:19.280 --> 4:05:22.440 they are fucking dinosaurs and they will just hone in 4:05:22.520 --> 4:05:24.600 on that. So that's when you have to separate them 4:05:24.680 --> 4:05:28.040 or come in with your purple spray. Um, So you 4:05:28.080 --> 4:05:29.760 just have to make sure that you're aware of that. 4:05:29.920 --> 4:05:32.640 And they pecked out your leg when it was bleeding, 4:05:32.680 --> 4:05:36.280 does that hurt a little bit? Like you wouldn't do 4:05:36.400 --> 4:05:40.480 it recreationally? Yeah? Many people would? You know? You not 4:05:41.160 --> 4:05:44.760 yu you're young? Yeah, if you are, if you are 4:05:44.880 --> 4:05:49.760 turned on exactly like it's not. They're not like like 4:05:50.000 --> 4:05:54.280 full body attack that I walk in every day to 4:05:54.400 --> 4:05:56.680 feed my chickens and I don't get pecked or anything 4:05:56.880 --> 4:06:02.040 like they're they're fine. Um then like attack animals and 4:06:02.160 --> 4:06:04.280 chickens by the way, or like every other creature, some 4:06:04.480 --> 4:06:07.800 of them are assholes, right, like any kind of animal 4:06:07.880 --> 4:06:10.480 that you have and any like just like people, some 4:06:10.640 --> 4:06:15.240 of them are dick I remember, like on that subject. 4:06:15.280 --> 4:06:17.120 I was a few years ago. I was writing about 4:06:17.160 --> 4:06:20.800 rattlesnake behavior for his story and there's this run fucking 4:06:20.920 --> 4:06:23.560 rattlesnake which literally every time I ride past it, it's 4:06:23.600 --> 4:06:27.200 just like bam, like fucking Like. I've talked to the 4:06:27.240 --> 4:06:29.080 snake behavior expert and he's like, yeah, man, that one's 4:06:29.080 --> 4:06:32.760 an asshole. Some of them are just chases. Don't know 4:06:32.880 --> 4:06:35.560 what to tell you, dude, You've just come across a 4:06:35.600 --> 4:06:38.000 bell end like it it is what it is. Um, 4:06:38.840 --> 4:06:40.720 So yeah, if you sometimes he's gonna have a chicken, 4:06:40.800 --> 4:06:43.960 which is mean. I just gotta hope that doesn't. You know, 4:06:44.200 --> 4:06:45.880 you gotta make your choice end, right if it's really 4:06:45.920 --> 4:06:47.640 causing chaos in the flock, Like, what are you gonna 4:06:47.640 --> 4:06:50.960 do with it? Yeah, that may be a chicken that 4:06:51.040 --> 4:06:54.800 you eat. Um. You know, one of the things you 4:06:54.920 --> 4:06:58.600 learned keeping chickens is how wildly we have fucked up 4:06:58.640 --> 4:07:00.920 the chickens that we use from me because like a 4:07:01.040 --> 4:07:04.680 normal chicken does not produce breast meat that is that size, 4:07:05.160 --> 4:07:07.080 like that is the size of like a normal grocery 4:07:07.120 --> 4:07:10.080 store chicken breast. Those are from monsters that we made. Well, yeah, 4:07:10.120 --> 4:07:13.360 that's like breast meat was popular, so they made that 4:07:13.560 --> 4:07:15.880 that like they inserted like a horbone or whatever to 4:07:15.960 --> 4:07:18.280 make that part of the chicken grow. And I mean 4:07:18.640 --> 4:07:21.240 I've seen videos of like the chicken toppling over because 4:07:21.280 --> 4:07:25.200 it's so heavy's not supposed to be. It's madness, it's 4:07:25.240 --> 4:07:27.800 so sad, and then jones are not fully developed, like 4:07:27.840 --> 4:07:30.200 it's very cruel, Like I am, yeah, it's sucked up. Yeah, 4:07:30.640 --> 4:07:33.200 I didn't eat meat, Like I'm not really like down 4:07:33.280 --> 4:07:35.960 with the way the American commercially agriculture raised animals at toy. 4:07:36.080 --> 4:07:38.200 I grew up on a farm. I raised animals my 4:07:38.360 --> 4:07:42.280 home with you, I agree touching Yeah, cheap, cheap meating 4:07:42.320 --> 4:07:44.120 the store. I understand. Other people do you got to 4:07:44.120 --> 4:07:46.520 feed your families whatever, And obviously one way or the other. 4:07:46.560 --> 4:07:50.280 If you're raising chickens, like and you at some point 4:07:50.400 --> 4:07:52.240 you know the chicken is going to die if at 4:07:52.240 --> 4:07:53.840 all possible, I think you do kind of have a 4:07:53.920 --> 4:07:57.800 responsibility to find some use for that meat. Yeah, it's 4:07:57.840 --> 4:08:00.240 just that that's sick. In which case, yeah, to see 4:08:00.240 --> 4:08:01.680 if they get like, yeah, I had to I had 4:08:01.720 --> 4:08:04.240 to kill two last year because they got like some 4:08:04.360 --> 4:08:07.480 sort of avian flu and the state people will come 4:08:07.520 --> 4:08:09.400 and take them away and do an autopsy if if 4:08:09.400 --> 4:08:12.080 they do get sick like that, and so that that's 4:08:12.160 --> 4:08:14.040 nice to know because then you have, you know, do 4:08:14.160 --> 4:08:15.600 I have to worry about the rest of my flock? 4:08:15.800 --> 4:08:17.720 You know what? What is this? Is there something in 4:08:17.760 --> 4:08:20.480 the soil? It's something I'm feeding them? You know, you 4:08:20.600 --> 4:08:22.680 can if you have concerns like that, it's nice to 4:08:22.720 --> 4:08:25.320 have them that that's really really good note. But yeah, 4:08:25.400 --> 4:08:27.960 you if you are responsible for them, like and you 4:08:28.040 --> 4:08:29.440 have to give them the best life they can and 4:08:29.560 --> 4:08:32.320 the kind of death, and you know you're responsible to 4:08:32.360 --> 4:08:34.400 the suffering as little as possible in their little lives. 4:08:34.520 --> 4:08:35.920 We used to buy chickens when I was a kid 4:08:36.000 --> 4:08:38.920 from a guy who bread chickens for a battery farm, 4:08:39.080 --> 4:08:41.040 and we'd go and get them as chicks and just 4:08:41.120 --> 4:08:42.840 be like you you you you you are going to 4:08:42.960 --> 4:08:44.720 run around our farm. Will don't have a wonderful life, 4:08:44.760 --> 4:08:46.160 And I'm so sorry the rest of you have this 4:08:46.280 --> 4:08:50.400 fucking horrible existence. But it's nice to save some of them. 4:08:50.440 --> 4:08:52.760 So it's gonna be hard to get chickens right now. 4:08:53.360 --> 4:08:56.040 So my last thing was really like, when you're buying chickens, 4:08:56.120 --> 4:08:58.160 right where you're gonna get your chickens from, and so 4:08:58.240 --> 4:09:00.240 hopefully you know where you live you have a farm, 4:09:00.280 --> 4:09:04.400 shall steal them? Liberate them from a battery farm? Shoot 4:09:04.440 --> 4:09:09.760 your way in it. It doesn't it's worth it. They 4:09:10.280 --> 4:09:13.520 will probably. Well, I actually think people have literally gotten 4:09:13.520 --> 4:09:15.800 to munchy terrorism charges for that. But well I think 4:09:15.840 --> 4:09:19.480 it's pigs, wasn't it that they go? Yeah, yeah, chickens 4:09:19.520 --> 4:09:23.000 are not charismatic enough for people to go to prison over. Yeah, 4:09:23.480 --> 4:09:26.760 I know it's unfair, it's unfair. It's racism. Really. Yeah, 4:09:26.920 --> 4:09:28.560 there's one thing we could tell you, as a group 4:09:28.640 --> 4:09:34.000 of individuals legally responsible for what we say, I'm yourself 4:09:34.080 --> 4:09:39.280 and liberate poultry. Yeah, fight your way in like like 4:09:39.480 --> 4:09:43.400 the only not the only, but the most concrete evidence 4:09:43.440 --> 4:09:46.680 of like dinosaurs have like now devolved into these chickens, 4:09:46.720 --> 4:09:48.200 you know what I mean? Like that is so funny 4:09:48.240 --> 4:09:50.360 to me that out of all the animals, that is 4:09:50.400 --> 4:09:54.560 the closest thing we have to a dinosaur and dinosaurs 4:09:54.640 --> 4:09:57.040 and again, their favorite food is their own kind and 4:09:57.120 --> 4:10:00.160 also like like they will like every now and then 4:10:00.200 --> 4:10:02.240 I will give them some of their eggs just because 4:10:02.320 --> 4:10:04.000 it makes them so happy to eat. Well, I was 4:10:04.040 --> 4:10:06.480 gonna ask, like what you said that it tasted different 4:10:06.520 --> 4:10:08.520 when you gave them meat, Like what is the difference 4:10:08.560 --> 4:10:10.200 that you caught in the taste when they do eat 4:10:10.240 --> 4:10:12.440 their own eggs versus like just the feed. Oh no, 4:10:12.480 --> 4:10:14.920 I mean their their own eggs, don't. I've never fed 4:10:15.000 --> 4:10:16.800 them enough for it to be a meaningful component of 4:10:16.880 --> 4:10:20.560 their diet. They will eat scrambled eggs and cheese. They 4:10:20.640 --> 4:10:23.200 like to know when they're sick. Can you can you 4:10:23.440 --> 4:10:27.000 like taste a difference if you give them herbs? So 4:10:27.200 --> 4:10:28.840 like one thing that people do is give them little 4:10:28.880 --> 4:10:33.160 bundles of herbs and you can taste that in the egg. Yeah, 4:10:33.520 --> 4:10:36.280 it's just kind of richer, you know. When you it's 4:10:36.400 --> 4:10:38.720 like you'll notice different, like if you if they are 4:10:38.840 --> 4:10:42.440 calcium deficient, the eggs are really fragile, and if they 4:10:42.520 --> 4:10:44.400 have a shipload of calcium in their diet, like my 4:10:44.520 --> 4:10:47.560 eggs are, like you have to like you have to 4:10:47.680 --> 4:10:52.400 want to crack those fuckers. If you feed the flax seeds, 4:10:52.520 --> 4:10:55.120 then the eggs have a higher Amiga three content like you, 4:10:56.640 --> 4:10:59.560 it makes sense. It's super interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah you can. 4:10:59.840 --> 4:11:01.680 You can give them flax seats and like that kind 4:11:01.720 --> 4:11:03.840 of thing. You can mess with their diet bit and 4:11:03.880 --> 4:11:07.200 they they like that stuff. So yeah, when you're buying them, 4:11:07.360 --> 4:11:09.120 what you want, I think is a beginner is like 4:11:09.160 --> 4:11:11.880 a point of labored and you can say point of 4:11:12.000 --> 4:11:14.080 lay and that that's what they'll give you. Know that 4:11:14.160 --> 4:11:15.600 they're going to try and give you pullets sort of 4:11:15.640 --> 4:11:17.360 going to try and say it's nice to raise chicks, 4:11:17.480 --> 4:11:19.480 but and it is. It's really nice to raise chicks, 4:11:19.520 --> 4:11:21.200 but some of them will die and that will be 4:11:21.440 --> 4:11:26.520 upsetting for you, and um, it's hard because work. That's 4:11:26.520 --> 4:11:29.840 a general note any lifetime. If you if you decide 4:11:29.880 --> 4:11:32.080 that you want to be a person who has livestock, 4:11:32.640 --> 4:11:34.680 you have to be okay with them dying and it 4:11:34.800 --> 4:11:37.200 being an experience that is more direct to you than 4:11:37.320 --> 4:11:40.040 like obviously it's it's not as emotional as like when 4:11:40.080 --> 4:11:43.160 a catterat dog dies, but it will not involve a 4:11:43.240 --> 4:11:45.800 vet with the kind of frequency that like a dying 4:11:45.960 --> 4:11:48.880 pet does, like you will have to deal with, you know, 4:11:48.960 --> 4:11:51.920 animals die because animals just die. Sometimes they wind up 4:11:51.960 --> 4:11:53.760 with the same kind of ailments people have for like 4:11:53.840 --> 4:11:55.960 an animals herd will give out or something, and you 4:11:56.040 --> 4:11:58.720 didn't do anything wrong. It's just an animal was born 4:11:59.080 --> 4:12:01.560 with a heart effect. Right, It's just like a thing 4:12:01.640 --> 4:12:05.080 that occurs if you have enough animals. Yeah, we used 4:12:05.080 --> 4:12:06.920 to say, if you have livestock, you have dead stock 4:12:07.000 --> 4:12:09.520 one day. Yeah, like it's just something you have to 4:12:09.560 --> 4:12:12.160 face up to. But like someone else is already doing 4:12:12.240 --> 4:12:14.160 that ship and they're probably doing it with less compassion 4:12:14.200 --> 4:12:16.360 than you think. You're buying, you know, warm out eggs. 4:12:16.400 --> 4:12:19.880 So you let I say you you can't, You're not God, 4:12:20.040 --> 4:12:22.600 but like you owe these animals like a decent life, 4:12:22.640 --> 4:12:25.320 and yeah, it's a little suffering as you can. So yeah, 4:12:25.360 --> 4:12:28.080 by the point of leg chickens, make sure that their 4:12:28.080 --> 4:12:30.400 sex right you you don't want to restie. You might 4:12:30.440 --> 4:12:33.120 not legally be able to have a rooster. And then 4:12:33.440 --> 4:12:35.400 something like a dog container. It's fine. I brought them 4:12:35.440 --> 4:12:38.400 home in a shoe box before, Like I'll just put 4:12:38.480 --> 4:12:40.800 them next to me in my truck and they're pretty 4:12:40.840 --> 4:12:42.680 chill that you know, give them, give them a little 4:12:42.680 --> 4:12:44.800 bit of water in there, but generally they don't You 4:12:45.080 --> 4:12:47.360 want to drink. You can kind of swaddle them. I've 4:12:47.360 --> 4:12:50.440 seen people swaddle them, um, you know if they're really 4:12:50.520 --> 4:12:52.960 panicking or whatever. And swaddling is like when you wrap 4:12:53.080 --> 4:12:57.040 them like you would with a baby, and people do that, 4:12:57.120 --> 4:12:58.240 I know, when they have to move them in like 4:12:58.320 --> 4:13:01.040 a hurricane to try and calm them down. It. I've 4:13:01.040 --> 4:13:03.760 always just put them in a dog container. Are we 4:13:03.800 --> 4:13:07.640 going to talk about storing eggs? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 4:13:07.640 --> 4:13:10.640 because people don't. Yeah, it's a weird American thing. Yeah, 4:13:11.800 --> 4:13:13.440 so this doesn't happen in the rest of the world 4:13:13.520 --> 4:13:17.600 that you guys get your eggs refrigerated, and that's because 4:13:17.640 --> 4:13:21.040 they're washed before they come to Yeah, you don't need 4:13:21.120 --> 4:13:25.280 to do this normally. No, you shouldn't wash your eggs, 4:13:25.480 --> 4:13:28.680 nor should you refrigerate them. Just I have a little 4:13:28.720 --> 4:13:31.600 helter skelter thing, and it just looks like a spiral, right, 4:13:31.680 --> 4:13:32.960 and you put the egg on the top and it 4:13:33.040 --> 4:13:34.720 just rolls its little way down and it gets to 4:13:34.800 --> 4:13:36.800 the bottom, and that way I always take them from 4:13:36.800 --> 4:13:39.840 the bottom. That way, I'm always sort of getting the 4:13:40.000 --> 4:13:42.280 oldest eggs first, so I don't end up with like 4:13:42.360 --> 4:13:44.320 one at the bottom of the basket. Right, So you 4:13:44.400 --> 4:13:47.400 don't them, No, just just bring it in, not until 4:13:47.400 --> 4:13:49.880 you're ready to eat them. Obviously, wash them before you 4:13:50.160 --> 4:13:52.240 cook them, because some of them will have poop and 4:13:52.320 --> 4:13:55.320 stuff on them right right before that. Just keep them 4:13:55.360 --> 4:13:57.240 normal and then the last for months like that, like 4:13:58.400 --> 4:14:01.040 egg there there you can there are a couple of 4:14:01.120 --> 4:14:03.640 other ways to Obviously you could pickle them, be very 4:14:03.800 --> 4:14:06.720 careful with that. If you are canning them, Um, I 4:14:06.760 --> 4:14:09.000 would recommend just pickling them and putting them in the 4:14:09.080 --> 4:14:13.320 fridge because eggs in like hard boiled eggs in particular, 4:14:13.400 --> 4:14:15.680 are troublesome to can because there's always if you think 4:14:15.680 --> 4:14:17.400 about hard boiled eggs, there's always like a little bit 4:14:17.480 --> 4:14:21.400 of cracks and like the white of the egg, and 4:14:21.720 --> 4:14:24.920 that is where botulism can live. So be extremely careful 4:14:24.960 --> 4:14:28.560 if you're pickling eggs. Um, just I would recommend don't 4:14:28.920 --> 4:14:32.120 like you know, can them specifically, just pickle them and 4:14:32.160 --> 4:14:33.840 put them in the fridge and you know, the less 4:14:33.880 --> 4:14:36.920 a pretty good amount of time. Yeah, pickled eggs are delicious. Yeah. 4:14:37.760 --> 4:14:40.040 Is the is the thing about not refrigerating the eggs. 4:14:40.160 --> 4:14:43.280 So do you actually still have to refrigerate like if 4:14:43.320 --> 4:14:46.040 you use in the store. If yes, you can in 4:14:46.120 --> 4:14:49.200 this country. Yes, you can roll them in vegetable oil 4:14:49.360 --> 4:14:53.240 and I think ash, which replicates the way that they 4:14:53.280 --> 4:14:58.160 have a membrane on that, but very intent if you're 4:14:58.200 --> 4:15:01.080 buying the membrane them, yes, yeah, when they come out 4:15:01.160 --> 4:15:04.520 like a little pole basically yeah, like it's kind of 4:15:04.560 --> 4:15:06.640 fills to pull something outside the ag I think because 4:15:06.640 --> 4:15:09.720 I understand it. So if you really wanted to store them, 4:15:09.760 --> 4:15:11.600 you didn't have access to refrigerator, you could do the 4:15:12.160 --> 4:15:14.640 actual thing. You should look it up. The other thing 4:15:14.720 --> 4:15:17.200 you can do that is because again, if you have 4:15:17.520 --> 4:15:20.480 any quantity of chickens, there's a good chance that they 4:15:20.520 --> 4:15:25.040 will produce, like I have a problem with this, significantly 4:15:25.120 --> 4:15:27.840 more eggs than you can consume. An interesting way, are 4:15:27.840 --> 4:15:30.760 you gonna talk about water glassing? Oh? You talk about 4:15:30.760 --> 4:15:33.800 it there? Yeah, that you can look like, look it up. 4:15:33.800 --> 4:15:35.280 I'm not going to give you a guide over this, 4:15:35.360 --> 4:15:38.400 because preserving stuff is something that you should take care on. 4:15:38.520 --> 4:15:40.720 But you can google water glassing. It's basically a way 4:15:40.760 --> 4:15:42.440 you can keep eggs for like up to a year. 4:15:42.680 --> 4:15:46.880 That way um in like crackable friable condition. But I 4:15:47.000 --> 4:15:49.080 think we are getting the note that James and I 4:15:49.160 --> 4:15:55.040 should stop talking about chickens for now. Continue in another episode. 4:15:55.680 --> 4:15:58.480 James and I will talk about chickens privately after this. 4:15:58.640 --> 4:16:01.000 And you are you aren't pretty? James said it. People 4:16:01.040 --> 4:16:05.400 love to talk about their chickens. They do talk about Yeah, 4:16:05.720 --> 4:16:10.600 maybe let's start a side podcast for Patreon reasons, Chicken Cast, 4:16:10.920 --> 4:16:16.240 Chicken Cast Anyway, poultry Pod. Until next time, take a 4:16:16.320 --> 4:16:19.560 lesson from the chickens and eat your own young Okay, 4:16:19.680 --> 4:16:25.720 oh my god. Hey. We'll be back Monday with more 4:16:25.800 --> 4:16:28.440 episodes every week from now until the heat death of 4:16:28.480 --> 4:16:31.040 the universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of 4:16:31.120 --> 4:16:34.040 cool Zone Media. We're more podcasts from cool zone Media. 4:16:34.120 --> 4:16:36.600 Visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check 4:16:36.680 --> 4:16:38.920 us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 4:16:39.040 --> 4:16:41.840 or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources 4:16:41.880 --> 4:16:44.440 for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone 4:16:44.480 --> 4:16:47.200 Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.