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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Andy and Samantha and welcome to Steph.

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Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. So

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Speaker 1: as we're recording this and as it comes out, February

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Speaker 1: is coming to an end, but we've covered a lot

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Speaker 1: of ground when it comes to romantic comedies. We just

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Speaker 1: watched Cinderella, thank you, of course, and as we've discussed,

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Speaker 1: this is an area that you have more expertise and

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Speaker 1: knowledge than I do. And we were recently also talking

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Speaker 1: about actors that are in that group of like you

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Speaker 1: know them, but you're not sure from where. So I

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Speaker 1: was curious Samantha for today's question, is there kind of

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Speaker 1: a romantic comedy sidekick trope that you recognize? And also

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Speaker 1: are there some actors that you feel like show up

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Speaker 1: in that role? Yeah, Sandra Oh comes to mind first thing,

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Speaker 1: because you have her in both sideways, which she is

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Speaker 1: kind of the bartender girl that gets hooked up with

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Speaker 1: the best friend, as well as I Still Love Under

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Speaker 1: the Tuscan Sun, which I love that movie because I

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Speaker 1: love Italy anyway, but Sandra is the lesbian best friend

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Speaker 1: who ends up coming to live with her. Other conversations

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Speaker 1: in Italy, so I think of her because there's so

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Speaker 1: many of the sidekicks who are people of color, women

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Speaker 1: of color, or marginalized communities. Like it's the best gay

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Speaker 1: friend troupe type of thing. It's always that. So that's

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Speaker 1: what I think of in Sandra, who you know, as

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Speaker 1: a Korean American, as a Korean woman, I didn't see

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Speaker 1: many Korean actors in American or more Western romantic movies,

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Speaker 1: so seeing her was kind of nice also as a

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Speaker 1: like comedy in general, And and yes, they're always typically

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Speaker 1: the sidekick, right And I feel like even in the

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Speaker 1: things that you and I have watched through this show together,

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Speaker 1: I have picked up on like, oh, like even sex

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Speaker 1: in the City that was kind of going on, and

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Speaker 1: then Sleep with Sin Seattle, you can see that as well, right, right,

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Speaker 1: So it is a very big trope. And since we

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Speaker 1: have been talking a lot about rom coms, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to bring back another classic episode about this very thing,

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Speaker 1: romantic comedy sidekicks. So please enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mob

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Speaker 1: Never Told You from how stup works dot com. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline,

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Speaker 1: and this is part three of our summer series on

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Speaker 1: romantic comedies. Right and this one is dedicated to the sidekick. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I'm dedicating it personally and specifically to Judy Greer. Oh,

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Speaker 1: she's the me of the sidekicks. She is the sidekick Queen.

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Speaker 1: And there was this great article that we read about her. Um.

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Speaker 1: It was published right after she wrote her book I

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Speaker 1: Don't Know Where You Know Me From? Yes, And and

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Speaker 1: that the title is derived from her actual life because

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Speaker 1: people are always coming up to her saying I know

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Speaker 1: you from something, and she's gotten so adept at being

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Speaker 1: able to judge, based on the person's age and other factors,

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Speaker 1: what movie you know her from? Because she's been in

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Speaker 1: a million romantic comedies in addition to some things that

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Speaker 1: are just ROMs or just calms or some DRAMs even Um.

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Speaker 1: But she's fascinating and her career perspective is refreshing when

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Speaker 1: especially coming from someone in Hollywood, because she's really focused

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Speaker 1: on just furthering and building her career steadily rather than

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Speaker 1: the meteoric rise of some huge blockbuster celebrity. And that's

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Speaker 1: translated into a really relatively for Hollywood anyway long career. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and she has starred in some films like

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Speaker 1: The Descendants. She I don't know if it's still on

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Speaker 1: the air, but she was starring on FFX is Married,

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Speaker 1: which is a sitcom where she does play more of

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Speaker 1: a straight man to the husband's character. Um. But in

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Speaker 1: one of those interviews I was reading with her, she

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Speaker 1: was joking about how she has been a sidekick to

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Speaker 1: all the Jennifers and at one point it was just

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Speaker 1: her plan to see if she could work her way

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Speaker 1: through like all of the Kates and Rachel's, and then

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Speaker 1: when she's basically just gotten all of the the names

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Speaker 1: out of the way, she could retire because she's made

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Speaker 1: a really profitable career for herself as every single rom

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Speaker 1: coms sidekick. Yeah, and I don't know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what it is. I think she's She's able to play

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Speaker 1: sensitive and vulnerable. She's able to play caddie and SNAr key.

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Speaker 1: She's able to play just about anything, including the character

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Speaker 1: on Arrested Development with the cross sided nipples kitty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's able to play completely off the wall. Um. And

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Speaker 1: before we came in the studio, Caroline, I was googling

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Speaker 1: around for a few final sidekick thoughts and ran across

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Speaker 1: a Hello Giggles slide show about sidekicks who deserve their

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Speaker 1: own movies, and Judy Greer characters were in three of them.

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Speaker 1: So it was Judy Greer in the Wedding Planner, Judy

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Speaker 1: Greer in thirteen going on thirty, and Judy Greer in Dresses,

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Speaker 1: which I think, really the editors should have seen that

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Speaker 1: and said, hey, writer, why don't you just write a

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Speaker 1: longer essay about how much Judy Greer just needs her

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Speaker 1: own movie. Yeah? Well, you know what. I came into

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Speaker 1: the living room the other night. I had been working, and, uh,

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend was watching What Women Want. I didn't make

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Speaker 1: him watch it. I didn't turn it on, I didn't

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Speaker 1: suggest we watch romantic comedies as research for this series. Kristen,

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Speaker 1: I walked into the living room and he was just

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Speaker 1: watching Mel Gibson and Helen Hunt Duke get out screwball

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Speaker 1: style in What Women Want and Judy Greers in it.

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Speaker 1: And Judy Greer is in doesn't she play an assistant

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Speaker 1: of some sort? She plays Aaron, the nervous and mousie

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Speaker 1: file assistant who Mel Gibson, after being able to read

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Speaker 1: women's minds, is really concerned that she's going to hurt herself,

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Speaker 1: so he like busts into her apartment and they end

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Speaker 1: up having like a really emotional conversation and Aaron Slash

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Speaker 1: Judy feels like really validated. Finally, Um, yeah, that's not

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Speaker 1: a good movie. No, it's it's a morble movie. And

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling, because Judy Greer seems like a

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Speaker 1: really red lady. I have a feeling that if she

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Speaker 1: were just chatting with us, maybe off Mike, she would

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Speaker 1: also agree. Yeah. But there was an interview with her

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Speaker 1: from a few years back in Refinery Twine where they

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Speaker 1: asked her her favorite rom com sidekick, and you want

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Speaker 1: to take a guess. Oh oh, I feel like a

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Speaker 1: new No, I don't know. She said Kit from Pretty

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Speaker 1: Woman because she liked her her favorite. I thought you

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Speaker 1: met her own character. Oh yeah, kids, pretty spunky. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she liked Kit and also Sandy and Tutsie, which she

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Speaker 1: said was a bit of a stretch. And I sadly

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Speaker 1: have tried to watch Tutsie a kid, you know, three times.

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Speaker 1: What happens? I fell asleep every single time. I was

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Speaker 1: determined to watch it because deep cut. There is a

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Speaker 1: now deceased, sadly podcast called Professor blast Off, and one

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Speaker 1: of the hosts on their Kyle Dunn again, what do

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Speaker 1: you knew? This this funny Tutsie impression and loves the

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Speaker 1: movie Tutsie and so one a cabin weekend, I rented

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Speaker 1: Tutsie from the library, ladies. It was like two years ago, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I tried to watch TITSI and fall asleep every

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Speaker 1: single time. It was like right after Dustin Hoffman would

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Speaker 1: walk out as Tutsie, boom asleep. It just has this

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Speaker 1: effect on me. That's no. My college roommate and I

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Speaker 1: tried to watch um, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy about

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Speaker 1: three times before we finally stayed awake for it. We

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Speaker 1: like drank coffee. I mean, we were prepped. That's a

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Speaker 1: cute movie. Um, and I haven't read the books, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of Titsie, though, there's another sidekick in that

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Speaker 1: movie who's always in this top sidekick list, which is

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Speaker 1: Bill Murray's character in that movie. And in the moment

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Speaker 1: when he calls Dustin Hoffman slash the lady character a

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Speaker 1: slut for being kissed by a dude. So you can

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Speaker 1: follow up on that, Caroline, But I was probably asleep

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Speaker 1: when it happened. It's been a lot long time since

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Speaker 1: I've seen Tutsie, so I can't add too much to that.

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Speaker 1: I will say one of my favorite sidekick couples um

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Speaker 1: is just and Marie from When Harry Met Sally. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I at some points when I'm when I'm watching that

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Speaker 1: movie and really just more invested in Bruno Kirby and

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Speaker 1: Carrie Fisher, who start out as a sidekicks, but then

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Speaker 1: they get together and I really love their relationship because

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Speaker 1: of course Harry and Salary able to kind of play

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Speaker 1: off of them, but I find them such a more

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Speaker 1: believable couple than Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: but that is the curse slash blessing of the sidekicks

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Speaker 1: plural uh. They are often allowed to be way more

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Speaker 1: human and flawed and believable and snarky and have a

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Speaker 1: diverse array of i don't know, ethnic backgrounds, weights, heights, personalities,

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Speaker 1: whatever than the leading couples tend to do. But then

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Speaker 1: the fact that a lot of times they aren't as

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Speaker 1: normatively attractive, especially if they're women, or maybe they're more overweight,

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Speaker 1: like a Jack Black in High Fidelity, or then you

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Speaker 1: get into the territory of oh are we doing the

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Speaker 1: token black sidekick, token black friend who has bits of

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Speaker 1: knowledge knowledge to drop every now and then. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of times those differentiating factors that the film

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Speaker 1: subtly communicates are the reasons why they're not the leading manner.

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Speaker 1: Lady right like Janine Garofoli's character in reality bites like

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Speaker 1: she's too sexual, she's too out there, she doesn't have

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Speaker 1: enough ambition. She works at the gap, so she that

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Speaker 1: character relegated to the sidekick role. I love that sentence.

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Speaker 1: She has too much ambition, she works at the gap.

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Speaker 1: Not enough ambition, not enough ambition. I think such just

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Speaker 1: too much ambition, because if you were telling my fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old self, I'd be like, heck, yeah, no, I

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Speaker 1: cannot fold sweater to save my life, so I could

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Speaker 1: not get a job at the gap. Um, who what

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Speaker 1: are some what are who are some of your other favorites? Well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of Janine Garofolo, I wanted to know your thoughts

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Speaker 1: about sidekick turned romantic lead in The Truth About Cats

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Speaker 1: and Dogs because we walk into the movie with obviously

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Speaker 1: you know Janine Garofolo being more of the sidekick, because

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Speaker 1: she is more of the sidekick when you size her

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Speaker 1: up next to literally in figuratively next to and with Thurman,

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Speaker 1: who's this model. She's a little bit dumber in the film,

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Speaker 1: and of course she has to use her to get

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Speaker 1: to the handsome guy with the dog. Um. So what

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Speaker 1: do you think about how that sort of do you

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Speaker 1: think it flips the whole sidekick thing on its head

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Speaker 1: a little bit? Yeah? I mean, there's all there's also

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Speaker 1: so much of that typical romantic comedy deception, so much

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Speaker 1: of that Shakespearean deception um where she does have to

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Speaker 1: pretend that she is Zuma Therm and and vice versa.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it does. I think it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting twist on putting the sidekick as the main main role.

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Speaker 1: In high school, one of my favorite sidekicks was Lily

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Speaker 1: Sobieski and Never Been Kissed. She was Drew Barrymore's nerdy friend,

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Speaker 1: and there's this line that, for some reason, my best

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Speaker 1: friend and I thought was so funny when she and

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Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore go for a fro yo or something like

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Speaker 1: that for the first time, and she gets really excited

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Speaker 1: when Drew Barrymore asks or what she wants to because

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Speaker 1: she just has this laundry list of things that starts off.

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Speaker 1: I want to be a painter. I want to be

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Speaker 1: a potter. I want to see the world like Drew

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Speaker 1: Barrymore just falls in love with her in that moment,

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Speaker 1: and it's actually like this really sweet moment of bonding

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Speaker 1: because for Lily Sobieski's character, she feels seen and accepted

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Speaker 1: for the first time, which may I may or may

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Speaker 1: not have been able to kind of personally relate to

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Speaker 1: when I was watching that myself in high school. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's a movie whose rom com deception I do not

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Speaker 1: approve of at all. I think it's super gross and

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Speaker 1: creepy because okay, so basically, if you've never seen, Never

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Speaker 1: Been Kissed Drew Barrymore, you know she had her own

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Speaker 1: Her character had her own nerdy high school experience, and

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Speaker 1: she grows up. She's a journalist and she goes undercover

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Speaker 1: in high school as a student to get a story.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what the story was. Something about baseball.

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Speaker 1: Her brother went back for baseball. I don't know who's

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Speaker 1: to say, but anyway, so she's playing a student, but

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Speaker 1: the whole movie is setting her up to be the

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Speaker 1: romantic interest and vice versa of Michael Vartan, and then

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Speaker 1: at the end, you know, never been kissed. They finally kissed,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, you, Michael Vartan, you've been a teacher

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Speaker 1: this whole time, and assuming that she's a student, and

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Speaker 1: now you're like, but he knew Caroline, you know, when

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Speaker 1: he thought she was a student, that it couldn't work. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course factors for sure, trying to defend it. Don't

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Speaker 1: try to defend that. But let's talk about Clueless, because

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Speaker 1: I think the Clueless contains two of the very best

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Speaker 1: lady sidekicks one could ask for. With Dionne who it's

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Speaker 1: hard to say that she's even a sidekick because she's

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Speaker 1: really her own woman. But tie Griven with the homies

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Speaker 1: come on and r I p Brittany Murphy while we're

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Speaker 1: at it, like, she's so good because you have a

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Speaker 1: magical makeover. She's a sidekick, she's so loyal. But then

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Speaker 1: she comes into her own She does come into her own, yes,

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Speaker 1: and then she becomes a snide kick. Yeah, telling Share

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Speaker 1: that you're nothing but a virgin who can't drive? Burn

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Speaker 1: what a burn? Well? And speaking of sidekick burns, I

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Speaker 1: love the meta moment in Rome and Michelle's high school

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Speaker 1: reunion when which I did see from start to finish

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Speaker 1: finally for the first time in preparation for this series, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: my movie watching I really caught up to like at

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Speaker 1: least nineteen three I think now pop culture wise. Oh well,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the people, the people who follow us

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Speaker 1: on Facebook are demanding that we do a mystery Science

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Speaker 1: Theater three thousand style rom com watching. Yes, Yes, And

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Speaker 1: I was like, at first, I was a a skeptical that

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Speaker 1: anyone would like stay with us through that experience because

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Speaker 1: it's a long I mean the whole movie, it's like

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half. But but you know, if

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Speaker 1: they'll do it, I'll do it. We could try, we

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Speaker 1: can always try. Have some cocktails. But I love that

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Speaker 1: moment where Romeo Michelle you pull off on the side

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Speaker 1: of the road and get in a fight, all because

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Speaker 1: of the sidekick burn where I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: Lisa Kudro who says it first or Mia Sorvino who

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Speaker 1: says I'm the Mary and you're the road at you know,

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Speaker 1: because they've been equals for so long and they're like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I can't even do the accent. I wish

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Speaker 1: I could. It's such a perfect accent. But that's that's

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Speaker 1: the moment, that's what splits them up, one of them

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Speaker 1: calling the other a sidekick. You know, want your friend

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Speaker 1: to call you a sidekick. It's so hurtful, especially for

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Speaker 1: two two ladies who are just really you know, one

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Speaker 1: and the same. I know they haven't posted together together. Um,

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the purpose of the sidekick, because

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Speaker 1: obviously there's such a staple of the rom com formula

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Speaker 1: that there must be a reason they're there. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean you could again, you could almost look back

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Speaker 1: to Shakespeare or the Whole or even the Greek chorus

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Speaker 1: part of Greek tragedies, you know, having the characters there

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Speaker 1: who provide the commentary, who provide the context to help

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Speaker 1: the audience understand how to feel. I mean, that's essentially

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Speaker 1: what a rom com sidekick is. Well, there was that

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Speaker 1: hilarious piece from mc sweeney's that you sent me, a

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Speaker 1: written from the sspective of a sidekick, and one part

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Speaker 1: of it says, even though of course we've known each

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Speaker 1: other since childbirth, I love taking those long walks with

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Speaker 1: you in the park where I ask you to tell

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Speaker 1: me in detail about you know, all of these moments

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Speaker 1: of your life, that I was there right alongside you

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Speaker 1: and of course know all about but I just like

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Speaker 1: it when you repeat them to me. Oh and yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't let me talk about myself. I only only ever

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Speaker 1: want to hear about you. And the end was just

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Speaker 1: the sidekick going home to cry herself to sleep. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that whole supportive, unselfish friend thing is definitely

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Speaker 1: one aspect of the sidekicks purpose. But they might also

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Speaker 1: serve as a teacher or mentor they might serve as

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Speaker 1: the sounding board. So when mel Gibson is doing something

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Speaker 1: terrible like listening to Lady Brains, he's got his buddy

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Speaker 1: there who hears all of the stuff that mel Gibson

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Speaker 1: is doing. And you know, we mentioned earlier that, hey,

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Speaker 1: the sidekick is so appealing because here she gets to

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Speaker 1: be a mess. And Judith Roof, who's another one of

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Speaker 1: those romcom scholars that we've cited so often in the series,

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Speaker 1: already u in her book All about Thelma and Eve,

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Speaker 1: Sidekicks and Third Wheels, which the preview for that on

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Speaker 1: Google is is tragically brief. Um. But Judith Roof argues

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Speaker 1: that because sidekicks are allowed to be neurotic, messes. They

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Speaker 1: actually represent the normative because they're enforcing through their more

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Speaker 1: comic or perverse, so to speak, positions, just how normative

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Speaker 1: the the straight man or the protagonist is like, I'm

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Speaker 1: cooking and crazy and maybe I'm too tall or too

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Speaker 1: fat or too thin or whatever, But like, look at

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Speaker 1: this handsome Carrie Grant figure who's going to be the

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Speaker 1: real hero and be cemented in heteronormative unions with the

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Speaker 1: leading lady. So okay, So if they have like an outsize,

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Speaker 1: ridicul lists character, then you're probably gonna have a pretty

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Speaker 1: vanilla leading lady. She's going to be in a card again.

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Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, Sandra, you're always hosting those random

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Speaker 1: parties for holidays like Arbor Day, and that of course

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Speaker 1: at Arbor Day is where she ends up meeting Dermott mcdilmot.

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Speaker 1: Now that's not his name, please keep that. That's dilmott McDermott.

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Speaker 1: What's his name Dermott Well Rooney, remember in the nineties

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Speaker 1: when it was all dill's and mcdond's. I don't know. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just Caroline. I'm just trying to share with you, Caroline.

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to subtly workshop my new rom com

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Speaker 1: screenplay arbor Day, and apparently it's not flying now. I

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Speaker 1: think you literally just wrote some of the dialogue right there.

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Speaker 1: One example of this whole like cookie side kick with

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Speaker 1: the straight man and woman leading lady and man thing

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Speaker 1: is the movie Two Can Play That Game, in which

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Speaker 1: Shanta played by Vivica Fox and Keith played by Morris

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Speaker 1: Chestnut are the straight woman and man to their best

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Speaker 1: friends who are in real life comedians. You've got Wendy Rickel, Robinson,

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Speaker 1: Tamala Jones, Monique, and Anthony Anderson, all of whom are

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Speaker 1: allowed to be loud, quirky, cookie, weird, funny and inappropriate

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Speaker 1: because the leading man and leading lady are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be shown. And this is this is super trope city

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Speaker 1: with rom coms across the board. The you know, the

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Speaker 1: two leading characters are supposed to have an unimpeded path

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Speaker 1: to find each other. They're not supposed to be having

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Speaker 1: the same kind of kokiness. But yeah, they can't be

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Speaker 1: having as good of a time, you know, because you

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Speaker 1: gotta have a little dram with your rom so the

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Speaker 1: sidekicks give you some calm. That's right, right, um, One

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Speaker 1: show that you've recently gotten me in you. That is

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Speaker 1: a great example of rom coms. And yes, we are

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Speaker 1: talking about sitcoms for a moment, but how strong rom

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Speaker 1: coms also have strong sidekicks, because like, I think the

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Speaker 1: best sidekicks, like you know something more about them. They're

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Speaker 1: not just you know, they're only in order to propel

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Speaker 1: the protagonists along and you're the worst. Has Lindsay and Edgar,

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Speaker 1: who are the two sidekicks, but they both get fully

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Speaker 1: developed stories. Oh god, that show. I I feel so

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Speaker 1: warm and squishy about that show, like I love it

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Speaker 1: so much. And those characters Lindsay and Edgar, I mean

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Speaker 1: new Phone who did like that show is so good.

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Speaker 1: And you've got the two leading characters who are terrible people,

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Speaker 1: and you've got Lindsay who's like she's terrible but so

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Speaker 1: sweet in her heart somewhere, and then Edgar who's just

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Speaker 1: like nothing but sweet and has a dash of PTSD

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Speaker 1: from being of utteran But oh god, I think it's

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Speaker 1: such a great example. And yes, it is a show,

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Speaker 1: a TV show, and it's not a movie. It's not

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Speaker 1: a romantic comedy movie, but it is it fits in

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Speaker 1: with everything we're talking about, so well, so, how do

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Speaker 1: you think in that example then that Lindsay and Edgar

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Speaker 1: being so well rounded like improves the whole thing, aside

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Speaker 1: from them just being like enjoyable characters and really funny actors.

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Speaker 1: But what do you think it is about, like the

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Speaker 1: strong sidekick that strengthens a rom com altogether. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think they I mean they do serve

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Speaker 1: a purpose of plugging in puzzle pieces when the league

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Speaker 1: characters are falling to bits. It does provide a little

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Speaker 1: bit of comic relief to the drama. For instance of

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Speaker 1: Gretchen's depression that she battled this last season. Um, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's it's nothing is writing

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Speaker 1: on Lindsay and Edgar getting together. Uh, So there's no

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Speaker 1: pressure there, so they're allowed to have these winding, loopy

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Speaker 1: storylines that go in all sorts of different angles and directions,

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Speaker 1: whereas you know that the leading characters are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be constantly heading towards each other. I don't know it

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Speaker 1: it it spices things up, and because their characters are

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Speaker 1: so great and fleshed out, you get to go on

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Speaker 1: those crazy rides with them. Well, and that's an example

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Speaker 1: I would say of the trend that we're likelier to

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Speaker 1: see in more modern rom coms where the protagonist and

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Speaker 1: possibly the sidekick, but definitely the protagonist is more of

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Speaker 1: a train wreck than she used to be. Don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: need a wild card sidekick to you know, at least

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Speaker 1: spice up plane Jane, because she a mess already. I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about Kristen Wig and Bridesmaids. Of course, there's train

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Speaker 1: Wreck the film. Yeah, and her I mean, could you

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Speaker 1: argue that her sidekick is her sister like this and

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Speaker 1: she's way more of a straight character. Yeah, yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: I was actually looking to see if I could find

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Speaker 1: a list of sibling and child sidekicks because um. A

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Speaker 1: couple of those that also came to mind were, um,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Gordon Levitt's sister in Five Days of Summer, played

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Speaker 1: by Chloe Marenz. And then also for a kid, you have, um,

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Speaker 1: Abigail Breslin as Ryan Reynolds's daughter, and definitely maybe who's

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Speaker 1: kind of sidekicky in a way of propelling the narrative

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Speaker 1: and is the you know, kind of the sounding board

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Speaker 1: for the main character and sort of challenges them to

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Speaker 1: think about things. Um, and of course in the case

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Speaker 1: of definitely maybe and Five Days of Summer. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: to see where you have like these two male protagonists

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Speaker 1: being led by these younger characters, you know, like the

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Speaker 1: wisdom of children, right right, right? Um, and I mean

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Speaker 1: you've also got leading the charge. I feel like, uh

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Speaker 1: in this whole slacker sidekick turned leading man or woman

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Speaker 1: is Judd apataw for men? Anyway? A lot of his

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Speaker 1: as we talked in a previous talked about in a

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Speaker 1: previous episode, a lot of his female characters are still

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Speaker 1: more of the serious straight character. But his dudes, they're

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Speaker 1: all I mean, like, look at Seth Rogan in Knocked Up,

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Speaker 1: Like his totally goofy, slacker, stoner character would have been

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Speaker 1: would have made a great sidekick to some guy who's

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Speaker 1: out searching for Katherine Heigel to be his soul mate. Well,

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Speaker 1: and he was doing exactly that in a forty year

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Speaker 1: old Virgin. He wasn't a nice sidekick to Dave Garrel.

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Speaker 1: Steve Gurrel, excuse me, I don't know Dave Carrell. Meanwhile, Um,

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Speaker 1: but he played almost the same character but was just

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Speaker 1: far more rude and yeah, a lot more facial hair,

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Speaker 1: more facial hair, Yes, yes, But speaking of dudes leading

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Speaker 1: the charge in romantic comedies, you know, going through all

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Speaker 1: of our rom com scholarship that we've been flipping through

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Speaker 1: for weeks now, don't you love rom's com scholarship. I

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Speaker 1: really do. I really honestly find myself just reading I

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Speaker 1: mean just reading it instead of paging through looking for

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Speaker 1: just the details to put in the notes. I just huge.

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Speaker 1: Caroline just just takes a book and puts it up

422
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: to to her years speak to her that way. I

423
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: hear the ocean. Yeah, I hear the ocean when I

424
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: listened to books up. Actually like to sleep with them

425
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: open just online. That's smart. Yeah, multitasker, smell the smell

426
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: of the pages. Yeah. Anyway, what's interesting when you look

427
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: at not just the top ten lists of great sidekicks

428
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: and things like that, but when you get into these

429
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: academic takes on rom coms when they're discussing sidekicks. Yes,

430
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: they talk about women, but so much of it focuses

431
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 1: on men, masculinity and toying with sexuality, especially when it

432
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: comes to those sex comedies of the fifties and sixties.

433
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: And this is coming from a couple of great sources.

434
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: We looked at Jenna Wineman's chapter in Reading the Bromance

435
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: Home of Social Relationships and Film and Television and John

436
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: Alberti's masculinity in the contemporary romantic comedy gender as Genre,

437
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: But basically, Wineman writes that these queer, straight male pairings

438
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: between a fetching male lead and a neurotic sidekick are

439
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: super prevalent as a narrative fixture in those fifties and

440
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: sixties Hollywood sex comedies. And there's even an industry term

441
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: for these dude sidekicks, the second banana, which I really enjoy.

442
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: But so you know, we talked in our earlier episodes

443
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: about how a lot of the tension in these movies,

444
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: particularly those fifties and sixties sex comedy, is that we're

445
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: happening during the Hayes Code, during censorship. A lot of

446
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: the tension came from that conflict between the dapper playboy

447
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: who wants to avoid marriage and the brutish career woman

448
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: who is not going to put out without a ring.

449
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: And so the role that these sidekicks filth, especially for

450
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: the male character, is to give us more insight into

451
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: their true character, their true wishes, and to let them

452
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: blow off steam and so the actors whose names are

453
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: frequently dropped when these romcom scholars are discussing this trend

454
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: are Gig Young and Tony Randall. Wyman writes about how

455
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: these guys basically played sexually ambiguous sidekick characters during this period,

456
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: as the second banana to the Carry Grant or the

457
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: Rock Hudson. And well, since sexually ambiguous is kind of

458
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: ironic too, because Tony Randall was indeed gay, um, as

459
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: was Rock Hudson. But I think because a lot of

460
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: those sex comedies involved so much deception, as do so

461
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: many rom coms, these second bananas were really important for

462
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: the audience to really know what the playboy was up to,

463
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: because otherwise he would be completely unlikable. He would just

464
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: be a super duper creep. I mean in a lot

465
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: of ways watching them now as a thirty two year

466
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: old feminist, they're super duper creeps, um, but they are

467
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: always emasculated to like, on the one hand, they they're

468
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: kind of the whole package. Like Gig Young from the

469
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: movies I've seen of his that I can remember, is

470
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: a little bit more interesting because unlike Tony Randall, Gig

471
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: Young is a little more conventionally attractive, but he is

472
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: still like more vanilla than the playboys, so you can

473
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: tell he's not quite as dangerous, and there's something about

474
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: him that Doris Day just doesn't feel like it is

475
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: quite good enough for her. But obviously she can't go

476
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: for the playboy because he's too dangerous. Um So, a

477
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: lot of times with those playboy kinds of movies, the

478
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: character like a Rock Hudson has to soften his sexuality

479
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: in order to court a Doris Day. He'll put on

480
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: a pair of glasses, he'll lower his voice and pretend

481
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: that he really doesn't actually want to have sex with

482
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: her as soon as possible. And so I believe it's Alberti,

483
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: one of our romcom scholars, who suggests that these kinds

484
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: of second bananas, the gig Youngs and the Tony Randall's,

485
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: still prop up Rock Hudson at All's virility, even while

486
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: they're kind of having to downplay it because it's like, oh, well,

487
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: we know that that he's still you know, he's still

488
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: sexy even though he's he's pretending not to be quite

489
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: as much. But the interesting thing with gig Young is

490
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: in the movie death Set, which is one of My

491
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: Favorites starring Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy. He is Gig

492
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: Young plays Katherine Hepburn's fiancee, and he is way more

493
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: attractive than Spencer Tracy. I've never really gotten Spencer Tracy thing.

494
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean, he's like kind of charming, but like seriously uh.

495
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: And the moment though, where things finally flip where Katherine

496
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: Hepburn is done with Gig Young and it's like, I'm

497
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: not going to marry you is not because he is

498
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: not as interesting as the very charming and what he

499
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: Spencer Tracy, but because he give Young's character ends up

500
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: slug shaming Katherine Hepburn. Yeah, and Spencer Tracy is like

501
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: and so it was with that like his his masculinity

502
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: became like too threatened, which was kind of a flip

503
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: of more of the emasculated Tony Randall character who's like,

504
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: I'm so nervous about everything, I gotta see my analysts. Yeah,

505
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: And so it does provide that comparison for audiences to

506
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: look at you and say, Okay, well you're too neurotic, weird, strange,

507
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: nervous in the case of Tony Randall, and so look

508
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: at how handsome and capable that playboy, especially when he's

509
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: masquerading as a more sensitive guy, is well. And because

510
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: of the time too, with these sex comedies, you're still

511
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: dancing around sex. It's all all has to be hinted at.

512
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: And you're also dancing around sexual orientation too. Yes, that's

513
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: something that Albertie writes about, as far as the emasculated

514
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: sidekick uh displaying a collapse of masculinity that he says

515
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: enables queer possibilities. And then Albertie goes on to write

516
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: about how the sidekick can actually serve. In addition to

517
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: all of the other purposes of helping further the storyline

518
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: get at the leading man's true motivations, he also might

519
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: introduce a little bit of tension or conflict with the

520
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: leading ad in competing with her for believes attention. Oh yeah,

521
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: as soon as like uh, Rock Hudson sees a gig

522
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: Young on Doris Day's arm, He's like, oh, well, now

523
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: I want to put some effort into it. Let me

524
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: put on my glasses and soften my voice a little bit. Yeah.

525
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: One example is gig Young's character Roger in the film

526
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: That Touch of Make. He is often mistaken by the

527
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: heroine's friend as the playboy hero who's actually played by

528
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: Carrie Grant, this guy Philip, but tempering that potential mistake

529
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: is the fact that Gig Young's analyst believes that his

530
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: character is gay. Ha ha. Can you imagine slap stick?

531
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: Another example is in the movie Artists and Models from

532
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three. You've got Dean Martin's character who wants

533
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: to move out of the apartment in the bedroom that

534
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: he shares with Eugene full Stack played by Jerry Lewis.

535
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: This is sounding like a total burden ernie situation. Uh,

536
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: and so well they really hand it up because Eugene

537
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: is standing in the doorway wearing an apron. He's crying

538
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: because Rick is leaving. Rick's packing his suitcase, saying that

539
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: divorce is the only way out, but Rick ends up

540
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: not going through with it. He takes all of his

541
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: clothes out of the suitcase and Eugene is shown smiling

542
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: gratefully through his tears. And it I mean, it's exactly

543
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: a play on like a more domestic man and woman

544
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: marriage situation. Yeah, the whole series of Dean Martin and

545
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: Jerry Lewis films would be way more homo erotic if

546
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: Jerry Lewis weren't such a second banana. Yeah, where it's

547
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: like there's no, no, no no, there's no way that Dean

548
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: Martin is into that. Um. But you do see this

549
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: turned on its head a little bit with Annie Hall,

550
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: where Woody Allen's character Alvi is of course the neurotic

551
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: mess as the leading man, while you have his sidekick

552
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: Rob played by Tony Roberts, being the suave, handsome, level

553
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: headed masculine man who kind of reflects Alvi's idealized dude. Yeah,

554
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: and I love that they were such a pair. Roberts

555
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: went on to hold similar roles in Play It Again,

556
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: Sam Hannah and Her Sisters and Stardust Memories. He was

557
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: basically the the alpha handsome man dude in all of

558
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: uh Woody Allen's neurotic love comedies. I hope that that's

559
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: what his Hollywood business cards out of the time, alpha

560
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: handsome man dude service for higher. He did have a

561
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: good beard all that. You know, his hair was curly,

562
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: so it's just like a ring of curls around his

563
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: entire head. It's gonna who's the gentle painting bob Ra

564
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: has got a very bob Ra look gentle painting. Well,

565
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: we're going to get into more gentlemen, uh, namely in

566
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 1: the slacker dude comedy genre when we come right back

567
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: from a quick break. So when it comes to the

568
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: relationships between the leading guy and his second banana, one

569
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: of the most recent developments would be the bromance between

570
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: the two because thankfully there is not as much you know,

571
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: homophobia at work behind the scenes as there would have

572
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 1: been in those sex comedies of the fifties and sixties. Um,

573
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: and there's more room now for these men to have

574
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: actual relationships with each other. Yeah, and I do think

575
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,959
Speaker 1: that there's something you know, we talked about this way

576
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: back when Kristin in our bromance episode, But there seems

577
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: to be more of an acceptance of dudes loving each other,

578
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: hanging out, snuggling, having a little snuggle parties. And that

579
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: comes through in movies like I Love You Man, where

580
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: two men telling each other they loved each other would

581
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: have been unthinkable in a Rock Hudson movie. And I'm

582
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: also going to say it again, Magic Mike, I think

583
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: is a rom com, but it's totally a brom com.

584
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: Those guys just love each other. They'll oil each other

585
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: up and it is not awkward. They wrestle, they hug,

586
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: they love. Um. There's also you mean dupree that fits

587
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: into that as well, with um Luke Wilson Nope, Owen

588
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: Wilson always get them mixed up and like which one

589
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: has the crooked nose? Oh yes, Owen right, Owen Wilson

590
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: where he is not so much in love with Kate Hudson.

591
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 1: He doesn't show up for her but for uh the fella.

592
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: And no matter how much more comfortable we and these

593
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: male characters are getting with expressing bro love and having

594
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: these homosocial relationships, uh, they still have in common with

595
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: the sex comedies the immaturity. Granted, with Rock Hudson or

596
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: Carrie Grant, it was not so much immatureity as we

597
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: think about it. It was more like marriage is death

598
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: and I don't want to give up my bachelor lifestyle,

599
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: Whereas now it's like immaturity is more likely to reflect, Uh,

600
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: you know, I smoke pot and maybe I don't have

601
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: a full time job or you know, I'm I'm just

602
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: a cookie guy who's never been in a serious relationship. Yeah,

603
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: and the whole thing of you don't want to become boring,

604
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: and you don't want to become one of those people

605
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: with kids, which I think isn't that even a movie?

606
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: People with kids? I have no idea. You're listening so

607
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,479
Speaker 1: many movies that now I haven't seen. Wow. I really

608
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 1: think that this series has helped my pop cultural knowledge

609
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: just escalate. I know, we can have so many conversations

610
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: at parties now if people would just invite us. So,

611
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: who wants to talk about sex comedies of the nineteen fifties?

612
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: Muriel You okay? Is it Muriel Muriel's wedding? And then

613
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: Rachel Griffith's is the sidekick in that movie? I don't know. See,

614
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: I've got so much random stuff rat Ratlin around up

615
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: there now. Um, but yeah, basically, if we if we

616
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: go to rom com scholar Jenna Wineman, she says that

617
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: what the sex comedies and the bromances have in common

618
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: is the quote narrative privileging of the immature male, his

619
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: homosocial bonds, and his strange trajectory into proper adulthood. But

620
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: there's not as much focus on fixing the immature dude.

621
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: Nobody's like telling him necessarily to stop smoking pot or

622
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: like get married or whatever, but you still have the

623
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: focus on the relationship obviously because it's a rom com.

624
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: But you also don't lose the second banana. The immature

625
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: guy gets to keep his second banana and his bond

626
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,959
Speaker 1: and have the lady. Yeah, because I think there's also

627
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: just more generally a focus on the importance of our friendships.

628
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: It's like who who wants to know? Just like the

629
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: couple who only knows each other, you know what I mean.

630
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: It's kind of like an old school when Will Ferrell's

631
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: character is married and he's like, oh, yeah, we've got

632
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: a big Saturday planned, going to a bed bath and

633
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: beyond it's gonna be gonna be pretty wild. It's like,

634
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: it's like that is the nightmare these days. Although for

635
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: the record, the older that I've gotten yes and early

636
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: weekend morning trip to a home depots rather nice. Yeah. No,

637
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: boyfriend and I are the same, minus the early like

638
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: we can't get out about to save our lives, and

639
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: then we have to sit around drinking coffee and then

640
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: it's like two o'clock and it's like you want to

641
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: go to home depot and then we're enraged because there's

642
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: traffic and a million people at home depot. Also, I

643
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: shouldn't say home depot, I should say your local gardening

644
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: supply store exactly. And speaking of small Kristen, I like

645
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: this transition. I've got a subset, which means a smaller

646
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: portion of a of a set. I'm following. Yeah. Here,

647
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: I am uh romcom scholar Billy Murnett, who has a

648
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: rom com blog which I highly recommend you look at.

649
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: Um what's it called? Uh well, oh, it's called Living

650
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: the Romantic Comedy. I love it, So there you go.

651
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: You can do the Google. But he talks about the

652
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: snide kick. We mentioned the snide kick earlier, but he

653
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: talks about people like Nick Frost's character Ed in Shaun

654
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: of the Dead, Bill Murray's character and Tutsie Jason Lee

655
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: as Banky and chasing Amy, and Brittany Murphy who we

656
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 1: talked about turns into a snidekick once she finds herself.

657
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: And these are people who they go beyond just supporting

658
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: the leading woman or leading man, going beyond being a

659
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: sounding board into highlighting the lead character's decisions or mistakes

660
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: or whatever by being a complete snarky jerk. And you know,

661
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: Murder at one point in this Dog post argues that

662
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: you know, starchasm is their primary function, and maybe they

663
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: don't have as big a role as other sidekicks. They're

664
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: not as much of a driving plot device. I would

665
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: say that I disagree, especially for Nick Frost's character in

666
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: Shaun of the Dead, who is a massive, massive plot driver,

667
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: especially at the end. Anyway, I don't want to spoil

668
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 1: Shaun of the Dead rom com dude, totally. I mean

669
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 1: it's a total bromance. But the whole time Sean is

670
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: trying to save his lady love and get with her,

671
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: and like the whole movie as like zombies are attacking them,

672
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: He's doing everything he can to like save her and

673
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: charm her and show that he's the hero. I had

674
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: never thought of it that way. Oh, totally a rom com.

675
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: I love me some Simon Peg And also I just

676
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: love the scene in that movie where they're in the

677
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: pub and Queen is playing into the beat of the

678
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: Queen song they're beating up the zombie. Any who. Uh Yeah,

679
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: I think Shaun of the Dead is an excellent example

680
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: of the bromance with the slacker second banana and also

681
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: being a traditional romcom and a snide kick and ed

682
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 1: Ed is a snide kick. Yes, But then, of course,

683
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: beyond the subset of snyde kick, you've also got what

684
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: is unfortunately a subset of a best friend who is

685
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: a person of color. Yeah, the old token black friend. Yeah,

686
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 1: token black friend, token John Show. Because people aren't putting

687
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: that many Asian characters in films either. As the leading

688
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: person Ashley Reese over a Girl, I wrote a lot

689
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: about this and pointed out that you've got like, oh,

690
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, like a Cadeem Hardison who plays Felix

691
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: and Maid of Honor, or to make a Fraser in

692
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: Head over Heels who plays Holly. But they basically serve

693
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not telling you anything you don't know,

694
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: but they're a way to introduce diversity without having to

695
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: invest too much into a character. Yeah. So it's like

696
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle in You've Got Male is Tom Hanks's sidekick,

697
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: and from what I can remember, he is the only

698
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: person of color with a speaking role in the whole film.

699
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: But more recently, you've got Lebron James and train Wreck,

700
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: who is really funny. I gotta say he's one of

701
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: the funniest athlete comedians that I've seen lately. Um. And

702
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: maybe because the film is so intentional in a lot

703
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: of the tropes that it's playing on and busting up,

704
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: perhaps that was a deliberate choice. Um. But Lebron definitely

705
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: felt like it in some ways because it's not like

706
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: Amy Schumer has a diverse cast of friends, right, yeah, exactly, Now,

707
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: I loved, Yeah, I love Lebron's character in that movie.

708
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: But you know, the relying on the sidekick, the second

709
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: banana to be a person of color, it's just a

710
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: way of like checking off a box and not having

711
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: to to think about it much more, because there is

712
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: that tipping point that so many people in holl they

713
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: would talk about of uh, you know, like one black

714
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: friend is fine, but like you can't have a second

715
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: black friend, and you certainly can't have a black protagonist,

716
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: and like a second black person in a leading role

717
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 1: because if you look at Hitch, there's so much written

718
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 1: about Hitch for instance, And we're going to talk about this,

719
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: all of this these racial issues in our next episode,

720
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: but like, ah, the leading man is black. We can't

721
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: have a black leading lady because it's a black movie.

722
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: But if you have a white leading lady, then it's

723
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: an interracial romance, which is even more taboo for Hollywood. Again,

724
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: we're just spoiling the next installment of our romcom series.

725
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean so if you look at it

726
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: according to gender though, I mean like you've got black

727
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: men playing the super chill spirit guide basically to the

728
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: nervous white man leading man. Uh. But of course, black

729
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: women who are in the best friend role so many

730
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: times have to play that sassy black woman or angry

731
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: black woman sidekick character, which sucks because it actually, Reese

732
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: points out, like this can so easily veer off into

733
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: playing off of stereotypes about the angry black woman and

734
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: the character ending up being treated as nothing more than

735
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: a caricature. Well, and I think, uh for me at least,

736
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: one of the most cringe worthy examples of that is

737
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: that Jennifer Hudson in the first Sex in the City movie,

738
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: where there was almost a record scratch when she you know,

739
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: walks on screen, because it's like, really, all, really are

740
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: we going to do that? Like nothing against Jennifer Hudson's

741
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: acting capabilities, but the way that she was played and

742
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: the bits of wisdom that she would you know, drop

743
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: for Carrie Bradshaw here and there. I was like, oh,

744
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: come on, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So if whether they're

745
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: forced to be the sassy sidekick or not, they often

746
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: have to help the white ladies transformation. And so yeah,

747
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: you do have Jennifer Hudson straightening Carrie Bradshaw's life out. Uh,

748
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: you also have Carrie Washington's character and Save the Last Dance,

749
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 1: uh straightening out Julia stiles is life and her fashion

750
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: choices so that Julia Styles can go to the club

751
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: and be a successful dancer, although maybe slightly to redeem

752
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: sex in the City. Carrie Bradscha does help Jennifer Hudson's

753
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 1: character work out her life, love life, and get back

754
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,479
Speaker 1: with her I think ex fiance. So at at least

755
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: she gets something sort of of a backstory that's true.

756
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 1: She gets like a bit of a story. Yeah good,

757
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 1: well that's good. Um, And I love though that Tina

758
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: Fey mocked this in that episode of thirty Rock where

759
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: she's on the airplane and she's taken so many anti

760
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: anxiety pills that she hallucinates that she's sitting next to

761
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: Oprah and spills all of her life problems, all of

762
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: her white lady life problems to Guru Oprah, only to

763
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: then be revealed that actually she's just high and it's

764
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: a teen girl sitting next to her. Tina so perfect.

765
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: You know. Uh. One thing that I really love about

766
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: Kimmy Schmidt, which again to go to TV, off the

767
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 1: big screen to the small screen, is that Titus Andromedon

768
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: could be a sidekick if the writers were not as

769
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: smart as they are. He yes, because he gets his

770
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: own fabulous, amazing, wonderful, hilarious stories. Yeah, I love him

771
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: so much. Otherwise he would totally fall into the token

772
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: gay guy, because that's come up so many times. Hello

773
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 1: Rupert Everett and my best friend's wedding. Yes, I did

774
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: have a crush on Okay I did, Oh god, Yeah,

775
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: because he he was starring with with Dermott mil Ding

776
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: Dong in that movie right, yes, Delmont with Dilmont mcdodley,

777
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 1: is I mean, And there's a whole movie about that though,

778
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: with Jennifer Anderson and Paul the object of my affection, Yeah,

779
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 1: which is it's a toughie to watch awkward because again

780
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 1: it's like, Wow, if Paul rud were my roommate, that'd

781
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: be I'd need to move out because he's so handsome

782
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: and he's aunt man. But you know, not not every

783
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: gay sidekick can be aunt man. But the gay sidekick

784
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: is typically in the in the exact same way that

785
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: the token black friend is the way to check off

786
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: the diversity box, the gay best friend or gay sidekick. Uh.

787
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: And do we have a whole episode about this too? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

788
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: they gave ust friend totally. Um. And they're a way

789
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: to like introduce or deal with LGBT issues without having

790
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: to make it the central theme of the film, like,

791
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: oh god, we don't want to make a gay rom com.

792
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: Who's gonna watch that? But it also makes the protagonist

793
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: interesting because look, she has diverse friends ends um. And

794
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 1: I would think that both Stanley Tucci and the Devilwares

795
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: product and Elijah Wood and Celeste and Jesse Forever play

796
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: similar kinds of not necessarily gay best friend roles, but

797
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: more of the gay guru who at some point like

798
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:23,720
Speaker 1: grabs protagonists by the shoulders figuratively and it's like, listen,

799
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to like tell you what you're doing right now,

800
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: and you're going to listen to me because there is

801
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: no sexual tension between us, and you know that what

802
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: I'm telling you is like purely motivated. Yeah, And so

803
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: I mean by having a gay best friend and having

804
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: like a gay spirit guide, that's that definitely feels exploitive,

805
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: saying with having like a token black sidekick who's some

806
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: kind of magical spirit guide. But that's also one of

807
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: the roles that the sidekick trope is supposed to a film,

808
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: no matter the background. Yeah, I mean, and I didn't.

809
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like Tucci or Woods roles were exploited necessarily.

810
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: It's just it seems like they're that um sexuality or

811
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: sexual orientation should say, is played with in a way

812
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: that like they that's the conduit, like, you know, because

813
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 1: they're the ones who were able to call bs on things,

814
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: because it's like, listen, I have I have no ulterior

815
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: motives in any of this, Like you're you're just being

816
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: ridiculous right now. Yeah, And I think I think where

817
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: some of the discomfort comes from. It's just the history, honestly,

818
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 1: just the history of the way that black sidekicks and

819
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: gay side or you know, ambiguous like Tony Randall's. Yeah,

820
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: the way that these people were portrayed as sidekicks in

821
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: throughout history in cinema has not always been very pure

822
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: and so like, it's great that you know, a leading

823
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: man can have a gay best friend and it's not

824
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 1: even an issue. It's like literally not even a plot

825
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: device at all. It's just it just is. Uh. But

826
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: some of those tropes origins are not so great well,

827
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: and that's why I'm glad that the final two episodes

828
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: of our rom com series are going to focus on

829
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 1: people of color and rom coms and also LGBT rom

830
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: coms um to see what happens when those characters become

831
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: less of tropes and more like fully fleshed out characters.

832
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: But before we bid a faun farewell to our sidekicks, Caroline,

833
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: I want to get your thoughts on a theory of

834
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: mind that I just came up with right before we

835
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: came into the studio that the most successful sidekick in

836
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: Hollywood to make the transition from sidekick to quirky leading

837
00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: lady is none other than Zoe edition. Oh. I thought

838
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: you were gonna say Melissa McCarthy, but ah, yes, but

839
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: not as much for Melissa McCarthy, because Zoe d was

840
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: the quirky sidekick in failure to launch. Oh god, yes

841
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: I didn't. I refuse to see that movie. So I

842
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: didn't know the Google told me. Um, But now, of

843
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: course google, uh here he's single. Um. But she was

844
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: even able to parlay her quirky sidekick persona into a

845
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: successful romantic lead, although of course she had to get

846
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,959
Speaker 1: a little bit edgier um for five hundred days of summer. Um.

847
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: But if you look at her again going to the

848
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: small screen on New Girl, I mean it's like a

849
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: sidekick starring in her own show. Adorable, so adorable. So

850
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: I wonder if we are now entering the era of

851
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: the sidekick. Oh sure, I say we are. You know

852
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,879
Speaker 1: that sounds good about that? Yeah, I think it's true.

853
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: I think that's a think piece that the Atlantic could

854
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: chew on. But now, listeners, who are your favorite sidekicks?

855
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: And what sidekicks did we leave out? I mean, we

856
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: didn't even mention Ducky from sixteen Candles, Poor Ducky, Ducky,

857
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: we didn't even We also didn't mention Rosie o'donald and

858
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 1: uh Sleepless in Seattle, which is kind of sad because

859
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: she just gets left behind the Ducky's in Pretty and

860
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: Pink and Annie Potts is the fellow sidekick and Pretty

861
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: and Pink and I just love her in that movie. Yeah. Well,

862
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: now I want to hear from you listeners. What are

863
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 1: all of your sidekick theories and who are all your

864
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: sidekick faves? And which sidekicks do you think deserve their

865
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: own movies. Mom Stuff at how stuffworks dot Com is

866
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: our email address. You can also tweet us at mom

867
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook, and we've got a

868
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: couple of messages to share with you when we come

869
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: right back from a quick break. Trips to the st

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Speaker 1: of the homepage and type in stuff that's stamps dot com.

885
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 1: Enter stuff and now back to the show. All right,

886
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Anna about our STD

887
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: testing episode. She says, I was inspired to share my

888
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: story relating to slug shaming, prude shaming in the stigma

889
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 1: of having an STD. When I was a freshman in college,

890
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: I developed a bumpy rash on my labia. It was

891
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: extremely painful, and my mom told me to go to

892
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: an urgent care center like a doctor's office, where no

893
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 1: appointments needed. She came with me, and the nurses tested

894
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: my yearn for a u T I, which came out positive.

895
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 1: At that time in my life, I had never experienced

896
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: any sexual contact, so the idea of having an STD

897
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: was out of the question. But it seemed weird for

898
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: a u T I to cause a rash. I began

899
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: to experience a weird mix of both sludge shaming and

900
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: prude shaming. The nurses and the doctors didn't believe what

901
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: I told them about my lack of sexual contact, but

902
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: also judged me for never visiting a gynecologist. I was

903
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: barely eighteen. The nurse told me the doctor wanted to

904
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: perform a pelvic exam, and I felt very much pressured

905
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: into agreeing. It was my first exam ever. I was

906
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: never told that I was going to be tested until

907
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: the doctor began testing me for herpes, chlamydia, and GNA rhea.

908
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 1: After the exam, the doctor spoke to be alone and

909
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 1: told me it takes two weeks for the herpie test

910
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: to come back, but I've seen her pies before and

911
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: you have it. He shrugged off all my protests, not

912
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: once believing what I told him. I cried the whole

913
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: night through and felt like the scum of the earth

914
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 1: for the next two weeks. When the tests all came

915
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: back negative, I was left with a mystery that still

916
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: hasn't been solved four years later. While my story has

917
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: a happy ending, I very much want to encourage people

918
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: with STDs and s t I S to remember that

919
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: you were worth being loved, respected and appreciated. I told

920
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: us select few people during the ordeal and was overwhelmed

921
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: at the support I received. It wasn't until after it

922
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,479
Speaker 1: was all over that I realized how wrong the whole

923
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: thing was as women, I think we're usually very hesitant

924
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: to be assertive at the doctor's office. But don't be afraid.

925
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: I will never again leave a doctor's office more confused

926
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: than I was entering now that I'm in a long

927
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: term monogamous relationship. I never thought that getting tested again

928
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: would be important, but after my experience, I will definitely

929
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: be using my lab box because not only is getting

930
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: tested important for personal health, but for increasing awareness and

931
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: understanding to reduce the stigma out something that is so

932
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: so common. I'm sorry this was so long, but I

933
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: feel like it's an important story to tell because women

934
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: tend to face lower quality healthcare as it is, and

935
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: adding the stigma of an STD can make it even worse.

936
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: Because of this, my lab box sounds like a genius idea.

937
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: And if you go to a doctor, speak up and

938
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: make sure your doctor understands your questions. Well. So, thank

939
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: you very much. Anna. So I've got a letter here

940
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: from Hannah about our episode on the Mothers of Gynecology,

941
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: and Hannah writes, I'm a student at the University of

942
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: South Carolina, where Sims is a name I've definitely heard

943
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: many times and for listeners who haven't heard that episode.

944
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: The sims she refers to is Mary and Jasons, who's

945
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: referred to as the father of gynecology. The main building

946
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: in the women's squad on campus is named after him, which,

947
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: if which I find I roll worthy at best and

948
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: gag worthy at worst. There's also a large monument to

949
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: him on the State House Crowns just down from campus,

950
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: where many times I've stopped while walking around the park there.

951
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: The first time I saw and saw Father of Gynecology,

952
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe there was a father of gynecology. I

953
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: have no idea how one goes about getting a statue erected,

954
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 1: but I am all for it. I can already see

955
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: how those three women could be incorporated into this monument

956
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: at the State House. Having something be done about it

957
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: in the name of the women's quad building would make

958
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: me so happy as well. But I know when it

959
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: comes to naming buildings it's all about money, which, let's

960
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: face it, I'm a college junior. Also, if I've learned

961
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: one thing in my attempts at activist work in various

962
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: fields my last two years at USC, it's that it's complicated,

963
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: in an overwhelming mess. It's easy for me to get

964
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: fired up and say I want to make a change

965
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: to see these Sims monuments, but I realize the likelihood

966
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: of these things isn't great on my own. I am, however,

967
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: a sort of member of the feminist collective at USC,

968
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: and I'm almost positive that if y'all seriously looked into

969
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: getting these women some recognition at any of the monuments

970
00:59:55,280 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: in South Carolina, they would be interested. Keep being amazing, well, listeners, Uh,

971
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,919
Speaker 1: We've got one person here, Hannah, who agrees that there

972
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: should be some Mothers of Gynecology monuments to counter jam

973
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: Marian Sims Father of Gynecology monuments that are all over

974
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: South Carolina. So if anyone knows how to make that happen,

975
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: let us know. Moms stuff at how stuff works dot

976
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: com is our email address and for links to all

977
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,

978
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: and podcasts with our sources. So you can learn more

979
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 1: about rom com sidekicks. Head on over to stuff Mom

980
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: Never Told You dot com for more on this and

981
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot

982
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: com