1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: o Fair Dowdy and I'm to Blaine and Choko reboarding. 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: And in our recent Roanoke update, we talked a little 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: bit about how much we love and evolving history story, 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: so something that's far in the past that still has 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: the ability to have the story change through new research, 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: new exploration, new discoveries. And in that episode, the discovery 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: and question was a patched over portion of a map 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: that was written in invisible inc So real history sleuth 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: kind of stuff that could hopefully offer new information about 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: the lost Colony at some point. In this episode, though, 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: which focuses on a sensational trial of Lizzie Borden, the 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: new information comes from something much simpler to leather bound 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: journals that just hadn't made their way into a story 16 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: in his hands until earlier this year. So Sarah and 17 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: Katie recorded a podcast on Lizzie Borden in two thousand ten. 18 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: The young woman accused of killing her father and stepmother 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: with an act in Eine two was one of this 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: podcast top requests, up there with Tesla for recent listeners. 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: I would compare Lizzie Borden to Tesla. But by two 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, so just a few months after the podcast, 23 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: there were already updates to the story. A book came 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: out that year called Parallel Lives, and it was written 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: by the curators of the Fall River Historical Society, which 26 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: holds most of the Boarden trial board and murder artifacts, 27 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 1: and it contained plenty of previously unpublished information on Lizzie, 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: including documents, photographs, even some letters that were written in 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: her own hand. And some of the letters had been 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: written while she was in prison leading up to her trial, 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: so a very um specific time frame there, one where 32 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: you'd be curious about what frame of mind she was in. 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: And they did sort of shake up the general perception 34 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: of Lizzie as a very cold, unfeeling person toward her family. 35 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: According to one of the authors, Michael Martin's quote, there 36 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: was a tremendous outpouring of grief in the letters, and 37 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: that's a new side to the story. But even more 38 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 1: information started to come out earlier the spring, and that's 39 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: when the Historical Society came into possession of the two 40 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: journals that we just mentioned, which had spent most of 41 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: the century stored in a Victorian bathtub, so we won't 42 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: lead you on too much here. So far, there's not 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: really any sort of smoking gun pointing to Lizzie's guilt, 44 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: but there is some new insight into Lizzie's successful defense. 45 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: But first, we're gonna give a listen to the original 46 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: episode on Lizzie, which provides the details about the murders, 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: the trial, and some prevailing theories. So check that out. Hello, 48 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Katie Lambert and I'm 49 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: Sarah Dowdy, and we're going to start off with a 50 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: modified nursery rhyme here. If you're ready, Are you ready? 51 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: I'm ready for it. Okay, Lizzie Borden took an axe 52 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: and gave her mother nineteen wax, and when she saw 53 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: what she had done, she gave her father ten. Wait, 54 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 1: that's not much of a nurse for your hyme. That's 55 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: because the real rhyme, Sarah is a lie. So she 56 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 1: gave her mother forty wax and gave her father forty one. 57 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: That is not true, And Lizzie Borden is one of 58 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: the podcast topics that we have always resisted. We probably 59 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: get this request, maybe more than any other topic. I 60 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't want to. I don't want to 61 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: put one above the other, but it's way way up there, 62 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: along with Jack the Ripper, that kind of thing. But 63 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: the subject has never interested us much because, you know, 64 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: here's the story. A woman was accused of brutally murdering 65 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: her parents and hacking their faces to pieces. But she's 66 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: acquitted and we still don't know if she really did it. 67 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: That's that's the whole story, and that's kind of your 68 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: standard nightly news fair. I mean, I hate to say it, 69 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:59,119 Speaker 1: but it's something that happens almost every day. One. Of course, 70 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: the story of some on who murders a family member 71 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: is nothing new. You know, We've got Caine and Able 72 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: and Caligula and Drusilla. But we had to rethink our 73 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: point of view because if so many of you are 74 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: captivated by the story, there must be a reason why, 75 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: and we aim to put our prejudices aside and try 76 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: to find it. So here we go, Okay, the basics 77 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: of our case. On August four, in Fall River, Massachusetts, 78 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: a woman is brutally murdered in her home with a hatchet. 79 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: Not long after her husband meets the same fate while 80 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: he's asleep on a couch in his living room. The 81 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: main suspect is their thirty two year old daughter, Lizzie Borden, 82 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: and we have a few possible motives. Money, the father 83 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: was a very wealthy man, or hatred of the stepmother. Stepmother, 84 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: that's a crucial part to this story. A combination of 85 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: the two, combination of the two. Yeah, So the jury's 86 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: verdict is acquittal, and that's probably the main reason why 87 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 1: people are so fascinated with the story. What really happened? 88 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: How did Lizzie Boarden get acquitted? So a little family 89 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 1: background to start with. Sarah Anthony Morris married Andrew Jackson 90 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: Boorden the Christmas of eighteen forty and they had three 91 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: children together, Emma, Alice and Lizzie. Alice died at the 92 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: age of two and Sarah herself died when Lizzie was 93 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: about three, so she never got to know her mother. 94 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: And as Sarah mentioned, Andrew was very wealthy. He owned property, 95 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: he had holdings in textiles and banking, he directed corporations 96 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: and one would imagine that made him an attractive prospect 97 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: for a husband, and so it did. Plessie has two 98 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: young girls and so Lizzie's father remarried and he marries 99 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: Abby Durfy, and Lizzie was about five at the time 100 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: and Emma, the older sister, about fourteen, And according to 101 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: Lizzie's testimony at the inquest, Emma always called her stepmother Abby, 102 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: but Lizzie always called her mother until about five or 103 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: six years before the murder went down. So make of 104 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: that what you will, but it seems like this is 105 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: a woman who she thought of as her mother for 106 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: most of her life. And again later when the d A. 107 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: Jose A Nolton asked if Lizzie's relationship with her stepmother 108 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: was cordial, she replied, it depends upon one's idea of cordiality, perhaps, 109 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: which isn't exactly the picture of a happy home. But 110 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: Emma and her trial testimony so that their relationship was 111 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: cordial and that Lizzie and her father had a very 112 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: good one. So we're going to give you the outline 113 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: of if she did it, this is what happened. Okay, 114 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: So here's here's just a basic starting fact. Lizzie and 115 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: Emma both admitted that they were upset about their father 116 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: giving one of his properties to Abby and her sister 117 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: instead of them. They're both older, they're unmarried, and they 118 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: expected their elderly father would provide for them and set 119 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: them up for the rest of their life financially. And 120 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: according to some there was this rumor that he was 121 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: going to change his will in favor of his wife 122 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: and that might cause a few family problems, I'd say so. 123 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: On August three, which was the day before the murders, 124 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: Lizzie attempted to buy prussic acid, a poison, from pharmacist 125 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: to Eli Bentz, and he refused her, but the Boardens 126 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: and their maid, Bridget Sullivan, all reported feeling sick that 127 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: day and the next morning. On August four, Emma was 128 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: in fair Haven, Massachusetts, but there were a few other 129 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: people around the maid. We just mentioned Bridget, but also 130 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: kind of randomly, the deceased Sarah's brother, John Moore, so 131 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: Lizzie's uncle from Lizzie's uncle on her mom's side. Uh, 132 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 1: he's visiting. He'd arrived the night before, but he left 133 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: in the morning to go visit another cousin, so he's 134 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: not around when the murders go down, but he's there 135 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: immediately before and then he comes back, so he's thereafter. 136 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: Andrew board, and her father left the house that morning 137 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: as well to get some business done in town. Abby 138 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: stayed in the house and she began doing chores and 139 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: headed to the guest room to make the bed, you know, 140 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: put on pillow shams, tidy up, and she asked Bridget 141 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: to wash the outsides of the windows. So she's in 142 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 1: the house, bridges outside the house. The only other person 143 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: who's inside the house is Lizzie Borden. Okay, So according 144 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: to Lizzie's story, at this point, Abby received a note 145 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: from some messenger we don't know who, calling her to 146 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: some sick person's home. We don't know the sick person either, 147 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: and Abby left the house on this errand. But this 148 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: is where our events are going to start down. Like, 149 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: if Lizzie did it, here's what happened. So what happened then, 150 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: if if Lizzie did it, is she found Abby on 151 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: the second floor, hit her from behind with an axe, 152 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: and then hacked her eighteen more times, and she left 153 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: the body. She cleaned herself up and the axe. She 154 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: knew her father probably wouldn't come home for a while. 155 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: It ended up being an hour and a half, so 156 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: in the meantime she did some reading and some ironing 157 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: and some sewing, you know, between murders. And when he returned, 158 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: Bridget unlocked the door for him, and as she did, 159 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: she heard Lizzie laughing on the second floor landing after 160 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: she had killed her stepmother. Right, So Lizzie told Andrew 161 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: that his wife had received that note and had gone 162 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: off on that urrand. And she settled him down on 163 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: the couch and tried to convince Bridget to go out 164 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: of the house. There was supposedly a really good sale 165 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: on ribbons, drigg and sale who can resist entice the maid, 166 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: but Bridget isn't interested. She instead goes to the attic, 167 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: probably worn out from all that window washing and her 168 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: upset stomach from the poison the night before, but possible poison, 169 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: possible poison. Um. So, after Lizzie settled her father on 170 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: the couch, he falls asleep, and then supposedly she hits 171 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: him in the face and head with the axe end times, 172 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: so hard that she snaps the handle off the ax. 173 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: But then in ten minutes, according to the timeline that 174 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: the police tried to put together based on what everyone 175 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: said they were doing that day and and Um, Lizzie's 176 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: own conflicting testimony. She would have had to clean herself off, 177 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: her clothes and the murder weapon in ten minutes, and 178 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: only then acting someone ten times. Let's see, I imagine 179 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: that would be a messy scene. Yeah, I think so. 180 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: And only after this did she called to Bridget for 181 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: help and announced that her father had died. She didn't 182 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: say anything about Abby because she thought that Abby had 183 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: left the house. He's off on the Errand so now 184 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: we're going to move on to the bodies and the scene. 185 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: And this is pretty disturbing stuff. But Abby had a 186 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: five inch hole in her skull, and her head and 187 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: her face were completely unrecognizable. She was lying face down 188 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: in collagulated blood, and her clothes were soaked in it, 189 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: and the bed in the pillow sham next to her 190 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: were all bloody. In the wall in the chair in 191 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: the bureau all covered in blood. Of just a small 192 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: disturbing detail. Her braid had even been hacked off. And 193 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: Andrew was on his back on a lounge, his face 194 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: turned as he slept, and his face and head too 195 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: were no longer recognizable. You can find pictures of the 196 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: crime scene online if you so desire, which you very 197 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,359 Speaker 1: well might not. The axe had gone through his cheekbone, 198 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: it had severed his eye in half. There was blood 199 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: dripping onto the floor and from the sofa and on 200 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: the walls, painting on the wall, the ceiling, the door, 201 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: and it was still wet and flowing when others entered 202 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: the scene, which is why we assume that Abby had 203 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: died first and he had died second. But it seems 204 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: very personal to attack only a person's face, and had 205 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: to us definitely in so many times too. But here's 206 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: an important detail. The rooms were are perfectly in order. 207 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: There was no sign of a break in, no sign 208 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: of a struggle. It seemed likely that whoever did this 209 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: new the couple and also the boardings kept all of 210 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: their doors locked all of the time, And supposedly this 211 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: is because there had been a theft in the home 212 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: and perhaps Lizzie had a history of shoplifting. Um, so 213 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: their house was always on lockdown, which pains rather disturbing 214 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: scene for the house too, I'd say, make her move out, 215 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 1: not well, and don't think of it. Just as like, 216 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: the front door is locked like a normal house would be, 217 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: but all of the rooms and everything just completely locked 218 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: down all the time. So and if it is all locked, 219 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: the person probably would have had to be in the 220 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: house the whole time. Yeah, exactly. So after the murders, 221 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: Lizzie called for Bridget after this ten minute window we have, 222 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: and then sent Bridget to go get the family doctor, 223 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: Dr Bowen. Bridget couldn't find the doctor, he wasn't there. 224 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: She comes back without him, and then Lizzie sent her 225 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: out again, this time to get a family friend, Alice Russell. 226 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, their neighbor, Adelaide church Hill, showed 227 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: up and she went off for help. So just imagine 228 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: all of these people sort of coming in and out, 229 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: but large periods of time where Lizzie is in the 230 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: house by herself, possibly doing anything. Dr Bowen does come 231 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: to the house finally, and Bridget and Adelaide return and 232 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: they're the ones who discover Abbey's body upstairs. Because of course, 233 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: that police officer asked Lizzie, when's the last time you 234 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: saw your mother? She said she went off on the stepmother. Yeah, 235 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: and she said she was gone from the house, but 236 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: the last time she'd seen her was in the guest room. 237 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: So the maid and their neighbor go upstairs and find 238 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: Abby's body, and you can imagine we've already listed all 239 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: of these people who are at the crime scene. Soon 240 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: enough we have more officers, more neighbors, and onlookers. Everyone 241 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: is trampling all over everything. Police are walking through the 242 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: crime scenes that ever dance, whatever evidence there would have been, 243 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: is completely contaminated. And one with Katie just kind of mentioned. 244 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: An officer on the scene asked Lizzie when she had 245 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: last seen her mother, and she was very careful to say, no, 246 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: it's my stepmother, And she said her mother died when 247 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: she was the baby. And this turns out to be 248 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: a really big piece of evidence, or at least it 249 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: keeps coming up, turned into a big piece of evidence. 250 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: But I don't know how much how much there is 251 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: to that. Maybe she was just trying to be very precise. 252 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: Abby is her stepmother, no matter what kind of relationship 253 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: they had. So no one thought Lizzie was guilty, and 254 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: instead all manner of suspicious characters are implicated. Lizzie had 255 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: mentioned an angry tenant that she'd heard with her father. 256 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: Others were called seeing suspicious men near the house recently, 257 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: including a mysterious Portuguese farmhand who perhaps was the fiendish 258 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: murderer that ends up not panning out. And another Portugue 259 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: guy had recently killed someone in town, so we thought 260 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: maybe it was him, and arrested a different one, So 261 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: try not to be Portuguese around the board and murders. 262 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: But in early newspaper accounts they said that Lizzie had 263 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: been in the barn, she came into the house, she 264 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: saw her father's body, rushed upstairs and found her mother's, 265 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: And then they recounted any possible theory, this angry tenant, 266 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: a man who had been sleeping in the hay loft 267 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: and planning these murders, someone who was poisoning the family's milk, 268 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: some kind of trickster who sent Abby this note to 269 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: try to get her out of the house and commit 270 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: other sinful deeds and and go after Mr Borden. And 271 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: the newspapers aren't suggesting Lizzie as the possible murderer at 272 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: all at this point. According to the Boston Harold quote, 273 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: in Lizzie Borden's life, there is not one unmaidenly nor 274 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: a single deliberately unkind act. So people were pretty confident 275 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: it was not this well bred young woman. It was 276 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: some sort of dastardly man, preferably a Portuguese farm, has 277 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: systerious foreigners, a mysterious man who's briefly in town. It 278 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: couldn't be Lizzie Borden herself. But the evidence starts piling 279 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: up because who else could have done it? According to 280 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: this timeline and all the other aspects, like the locked doors, 281 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,239 Speaker 1: she was pretty much the only one. And this mysterious 282 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: man theory begins to seem a little thin. Lizzie's isn't 283 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: a good mysterious man around, no, and she's emerging as 284 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: the most likely suspect, especially after her in quest testimony. 285 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: So the inquest was August nine, and it's Josea Nolten 286 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: questioning her and also Bridget and John Morris and some 287 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: of the others, and Lizzie continually contradicts herself about times 288 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: and the sequence of events, and she says some very 289 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: odd things. She seems confused by the questions and was 290 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: disquietingly calm. Yeah, And just a few days later, on 291 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: the eleventh of August, she was arrested and claimed she 292 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: was not guilty. August there was a preliminary hearing and 293 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: at that the judge said, well, she probably is guilty, 294 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: and she's going to have to go in front of 295 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: a grand jury. But the grand jury wouldn't agree to 296 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: actually meet until they got this just sort of decisive 297 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: account from Alice Russell. And Alice Russell said she was 298 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: the friend and neighbor. Remember she said that she saw 299 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: Lizzie burning a dress in the kitchen just a few 300 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: days after the murder. So once the grand jury here's that, 301 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: they're like, all right, we better hear, we better hear 302 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: what Lizzie has to say. The trial began June, and 303 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: again some more fabulous newspaper quotes um in the Boston 304 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: Herald quote her dark, lustrous eyes ordinarily flashing, were dimmed, 305 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: and her pale face was evidence of the physical suffering 306 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: she was undergoing and had experienced. Poor Liszie, Poor Lizzie. 307 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: So the prosecution was led by Joseah Nolton and William Moody, 308 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: the defense led by Andrew Jennings, Melvin Adams and George Robinson. 309 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: And Moody told the jury that Lizzie had planned the murders, 310 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: committed the murders, and then couldn't even keep her story straight, 311 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: and they hadn't seen a tear from her. You know 312 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: she was not reacting as a woman in this position. 313 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: Should she hated her stepmother, she wanted her father's money. 314 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: That's the story that they were presenting. But there are 315 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: plenty of things that Lizzie had going for her, starting 316 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: with she's this woman of breeding from a good family. 317 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: She has those newspaper quotes, she had plenty of character recommendations, 318 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: and not many people thought a woman was capable of 319 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: hacking someone's face to pieces. You know, poison sounds like 320 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: a nice feminine way to kill someone, not a hatchet. 321 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: And then we have the character references coming in here too. 322 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: So her sister and her uncle and the maid all 323 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: said that she had a good relationship with Andrew and Abby, 324 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: there was no motive to kill either of them. And 325 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: then this is sort of the crucial thing. They didn't 326 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: have the murder weapon. They have some axes, of course, 327 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: there are plenty around if you've got a barn, and 328 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: they've got one that doesn't have a handle, But there's 329 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: no blood anywhere on it, and we're missing the handle, 330 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: so it could be the ax, but it could just 331 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: be a broken ax sitting around from farm work. And 332 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: we also have no blood on her clothes or her shoes. 333 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: We have nothing, no bloods Borden. It's not a really 334 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: great case for the prosecute. It's all completely circumstantial. And 335 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: then this is the killer thing here. Her in her 336 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: inquest testimony, which is what of course made the judge 337 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: think she needed to go in front of a grand 338 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: jury in the first place, was ruled in admissible in court. 339 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: And that's because the judge believed that she had been 340 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: treated as a prisoner instead of as a suspect while 341 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: she was having her inquest, and she like, she wasn't 342 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: just a witness, she was under questioning, yeah, and should 343 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: have had an attorney present. Since she didn't, he didn't 344 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: think that they could actually take her in quest seriously well. 345 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: And as a side note, Dr Bowen had dosed her 346 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: with morphine before this inquest to keep her calm, but 347 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: obviously that could have made her kind of loopy. So 348 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: I mean, that could explain her contradicting story, stimy and 349 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: why everything could kind of confused her. But the prosecution 350 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: was saying even in her inquest she denied everything. There 351 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: wasn't anything in the inquest, no confession. Yeah, she wasn't 352 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: coerced into confessing to these murders in it because she's 353 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,239 Speaker 1: all doped up on morphine. If she didn't confess to it, 354 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: then why couldn't they use it? That was their their point. 355 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: But the testimony was excluded and also ruled in invisible 356 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: was Eli Bentz, the pharmacist, his testimony about her trying 357 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: to buy poison from him. These are two key points 358 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: that are missing from that entire trial, so that loopy 359 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: inquest and the poison Act, which seems very significant. So 360 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: there is still a fair amount of evidence against her. 361 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: Though according to bridget the Maid, there was no way 362 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: anyone else could have gotten into the house during the 363 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: timeline of the day without being seen, and Lizzie was 364 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: simply the only person who would have had access. And 365 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: I also thought it was very strange that Lizzie didn't 366 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: wonder where her mother went and that she was also 367 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: in the house and didn't hear her being murdered and 368 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: falling to the ground. You know, maybe after you come 369 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: across your father's body, you begin to wonder what happened 370 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: to your mother, Yeah, or you would just hear her 371 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: falling upstairs. But the family may have said that Lizzie 372 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: and Abby had a pretty okay relationship, but others were 373 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: testifying no, they Lizzie hated her stepmother and the friend 374 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: the family. Friend Alice Russell, said that Lizzie had come 375 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: to her the night before the killings and said, quote, 376 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: I feel afraid something is going to happen, so starting 377 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: to pay a darker picture of Lizzie's psychological state before this. 378 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: Lizzie also said that she had been in the barn 379 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: during the time of her father's homicide, but when officers 380 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: went to investigate the loft, it was very dusty and 381 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: there were no footprints but the officer's own, which seemed 382 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: a little bit strange, and it was also extremely hot 383 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: in there. She claimed to have been there for thirty 384 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: minutes on this silly errand looking for lead for sinkers, 385 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: which again, something's not quite right there, ye, maybe not 386 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: an area or a tory do in the middle of 387 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: the day. And then there's that note which seems very sketchy. Indeed, 388 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: the note that Lizzie said Mrs Borden received. No one 389 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: ever found the note, no one ever figured out who 390 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: the messenger was. No one ever even figured out who 391 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: the sick person was who needed visiting in the first 392 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: place there was a reward offered. Nobody came forward with 393 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: any news. And again her timeline that day made no sense. 394 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: And the dress Alice saw her burning, she said it 395 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: had paint on it, just doing a little wardrobe cleaning 396 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: a few days after her and it could very well, 397 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: of course, have been blood. And the dress that she 398 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: gave the police and said she was wearing that day 399 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: wasn't the dress she was wearing at all at the 400 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: time of the murders. It was a much too. It 401 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: was silky and kind of a nice dress, not the 402 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: sort of thing you'd shore a dress around the house. 403 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: And then Lizzie was eerily calm during the whole trial. 404 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: According to the New York Times quote, the most remarkable 405 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: feature of the trial has been the demeanor of Lizzie Borden. 406 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: From start to finish, she has manifested no feeling of weakness, 407 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: and has listened to the recital of the most cold 408 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: blooded and shocking details of the crime with a perfectly 409 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: impassive and unmoved countenance. I maintain it could have been shocked, 410 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: could have been shocked. But here we do start to 411 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: see the papers turn a little bit against her. So 412 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: she does bait when the skulls of her parents were 413 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: revealed that they considered that a point for her. There 414 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 1: are some rebuttals as far as that whole dusty hay 415 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: loft thing. There were some men doing work a few 416 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: days before the murders and they were like, listen, we 417 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: were in there, and there are no footprints of ours either, 418 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: So this is a ridiculous piece of evidence. And also 419 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: would a killer be that open about burning a dress 420 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: in the kitchen? That was the other point. Wouldn't she 421 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: be sneakier about it? If you've got to get rid 422 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: of the dress, you gotta get rid of it. And again, 423 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: where's our bloody hatchet? Where's this axe handle that supposedly 424 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: came off from the force of the blows? How could 425 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: she wash herself, her clothes and a murder weapon in 426 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: about ten minutes before she called bridget Some people were like, 427 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: maybe she didn't naked and that's how But I mean, 428 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: it certainly paints the wilder. And then one more final 429 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: important rebuttal Andrew was a really rich guy, so it's 430 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: not too unlikely that somebody might have something against him 431 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: or want to get money somehow. And then some people 432 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: did say that they had suspicious characters, just nobody they 433 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: could specifically name hanging around the house right for the murders. 434 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: Then again, this is all circumstantial evidence and there is 435 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt, and I think we can all agree 436 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: if we were on that jury, we would have thought 437 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: the same thing. And the judge agreed and Lizzie was acquitted. 438 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: So picking up with Lizzie's life after the murders, what 439 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: happens after a trial like this and sensational murders like this. 440 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: Emma and Lizzie bought a nice house together in Fall River. 441 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: Lizzie named it Maple Croft and changed her name to Lizabeth. 442 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: Emma became very involved in church, but eventually moved out. 443 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: They had some sort of falling out our argumentum, possibly 444 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: because Lizzie had a relationship with an actress and Emma 445 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: changed her name as well. And they died only nine 446 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: days apart, which is one of those spooky little connected 447 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: to the end of this bizarre little thing. So there 448 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: you go, guys, the Boarden episode. And I mean, we've 449 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: got to think about sort of modern connections to what 450 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: we see in the news right well, and and why 451 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: it's so important. I mean, today like you mentioned earlier, 452 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: when you're looking at the news, the murder of a 453 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: child or a spouse or a parent is unfortunately all 454 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: too common, and after a while, maybe the horror of 455 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: that stops being so shocking, and maybe it's easier to 456 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: contemplate a crime like this with the safety that distance provides. 457 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: You're looking back at it in time, it's not so present. 458 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: And this has become such a part of American lore 459 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: that we've got a nursery rhyme about it. Yeah, Lizzie 460 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: Borden has become a club nursery rhyme. Maybe playing rhymes, 461 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: not what you're seeing in the nursery. Um. You know, 462 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: I visited Salem about a year and a half ago, 463 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: and Lizzie Borden is not from Salem, but there are 464 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: all these shops with Lizzie Borden memorabilia, and you know 465 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: this hologram things where it's this stay a portrait of nice, 466 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: buttoned up Lizzie Borden, and then it's like scary acts 467 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: or that kind of thing. I think it just she's 468 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: a cult figure. She's caught people's attention somehow, And of 469 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: course we're always fascinated by Gore and violence, human beings 470 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: in general, not just Sarah and I um, but also 471 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: by what is unsolved, because you know, we'd like to 472 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: tie up loose ends, we like to find our answers. 473 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: But in this case, the only real satisfying answer would 474 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: be for Lizzie Borden to appear right before us and say, yes, 475 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: I did it, perhaps in hologram. For I hope it 476 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: would just be the real her. But that's the answer 477 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: we can't have. Okay. So, now that we've listened to 478 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: the older podcast, Katie and I really discussed in depth 479 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: of the perception of Lizzie as as cold and unfeeling 480 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: and how that sort of changed over over the course 481 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: of the trial. So clearly the letters and other documents 482 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: from last year have somewhat altered that perception of her. 483 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: She did seem to be grieving, although naturally that doesn't 484 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: totally get her off the hook. For anyone still speculating 485 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: on this too, just because you're grieving doesn't mean you 486 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: didn't do it. But it's the new info that really 487 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: might change perceptions about this case. I think. Yeah. After 488 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: the trial, Lizzie's lawyer, Andrew Jackson Jennings, wound up with 489 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: much of the evidence sustained pillow shams, the hatchet with 490 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: its handle broken off, and he kept all of this 491 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: plus his two leather journals, one which contained an annotated 492 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: newspaper clippings a collection of annotated newspaper clippings, and the 493 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: other contained his handwritten notes, and all of this was 494 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: in a Victorian tub. As we mentioned an entry, he 495 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to put all this kind of grizzly stuff 496 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: in your closet, of course, and you just can't live 497 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: it and leave it in any random place. But his daughter, 498 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: Marian Jennings Wearing, left most of the collection to the 499 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: Fall River Historical Society in the nineteen sixties, but then 500 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: his grandson Edward Waring, held on to the journals himself, 501 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: since he was afraid researcher would be unable to read 502 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: his grandfather's messy handwriting and then they might misquote him. 503 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: So he was worried about this stuff and just decided 504 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: to hang onto it. Mr Waring died though, in late 505 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, leaving the journals to the society and 506 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: his will. So since that point, curator Michael Martin's has 507 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: been able to examine some of what's contained inside. Although 508 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,959 Speaker 1: the journals are still too fragile to read entirely, they 509 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: need to be better preserved. First, and according to The 510 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: Boston Globe, Martin says, quote, it's the only file Jennings retained, 511 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: and it's the first idea we have about how the 512 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: defense went about building its case. So clearly those annotated 513 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: news clippings in that first journal might be of interest 514 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: to historians considering how much the press reaction to the 515 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: trial transformed over its course. So um, you know, we 516 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: might be able to find out what concerned Lizzie's lawyer, 517 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: what was being printed about her at the time that 518 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: caught his attention. But the real kicker is jennings list 519 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: of people in viewed for the case and his notes 520 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: on those interviews. According to Martin's and ABC News quote, 521 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: a number of the people Jennings spoke to were people 522 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: he knew intimately on a social or business level, so 523 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: many of them were perhaps more candid with him than 524 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: they would have been otherwise. But it's also evident that 525 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: there are a number of new individuals he spoke to 526 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: who had previously not been connected with the case, So 527 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: new witnesses, I mean, new kinds of information here and possibly, um, 528 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: possibly some kind of information about why these people weren't 529 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: involved in the case publicly, Yeah, kind of inside scoop. 530 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: Why did her lawyer not want them involved? So Jennings 531 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: also peppered the one hundred page written journal with a 532 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: lot of his own insights and just I mean it 533 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: gives you a sense of that, just the fact that 534 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: he knew a lot of the people um involved pretty closely, 535 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: he had some insights himself. So for instance, he wrote 536 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: about how Andrew Borden had always spoken of his girls 537 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: and he'd call him his girls quite far only and 538 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: provided for them well, So that slightly debunked the miser theory. 539 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: You know, Andrew Borden was well off, but he was 540 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: supporting his his adult daughters. And then um, he also 541 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: supposedly mentioned how much he liked receiving letters from them, 542 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: how much he enjoyed that. So, as of this spring, 543 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: the journals hadn't been entirely reviewed yet, even though the 544 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: Society does plan to eventually publish them. So maybe by 545 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: that time, by the time the whole thing comes out, 546 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: we'll be ready for another update to this podcast. You 547 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: guys keep us updated on it. This is when one 548 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: of those episodes that we got a lot of suggestions 549 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: for it before it came out, but then we got 550 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: a lot of links and news stories sent to us 551 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: when all this new information. People really love gruesome as 552 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: it as People really love the story and just continue 553 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: to want to find out more about it. Incidentally, Lizzie 554 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: was big in the news for another reason the spring too. Though. Maplecroft, 555 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: the fourteen room queen and she lived in after her acquittal, 556 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: is up for sale for six d and fifty thou dollars. 557 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: So if you're a really big Lizzy boarding buck, there 558 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: you go. Um. So, if you have any new information 559 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: to to share with us or any thoughts on this case, 560 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: you know why it continues to fascinate people, while why 561 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: it continues to fascinate you if it does, let us 562 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: know where at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. We're 563 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: also on Twitter at Miston History, and we're on Facebook. 564 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: And if you want to learn a little bit more 565 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: about the techniques that people might use to solve a 566 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: crime like this, today, we have an article called how 567 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: blood stained pattern analysis works and you can find that 568 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: by searching on our homepage at www dot how stuff 569 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: works dot com. For more on this and thousands of 570 00:32:53,640 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff works? Dot Com named 571 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: this day, had named day. Eat in