WEBVTT - Ireland's Thomas Byrne Talks Russia Sanctions, China Trade

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. The European Union leaders

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<v Speaker 1>will begin arriving in Brussels later ahead of tomorrow's summers.

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<v Speaker 1>They're expected to discuss further sanctions on Russia, among other issues.

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<v Speaker 1>This as we've been reporting on a new European plan

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<v Speaker 1>drawn up with Kiev which aims to end the war

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<v Speaker 1>with Russia. For more to discuss. I'm joined by Ireland's

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<v Speaker 1>europe Minister Thomas Byrne. Minister, great to have you with

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<v Speaker 1>us in our Brussels studio this morning on the issue,

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, of sanctions on Russia. The expectation has

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<v Speaker 1>been there will be in agreement tomorrow. Is that what

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<v Speaker 1>we should be hoping for from this meeting?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I certainly hope so certainly what Ireland wants and

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<v Speaker 2>what almost all member states want. I think, like every occasion,

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<v Speaker 2>when we introduce these sanctions, we need to get all

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<v Speaker 2>the member states on board. They're not all quite there yet,

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<v Speaker 2>but in you know, previous iterations and multiple times all

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<v Speaker 2>member states have come on board, so I would expect

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<v Speaker 2>that to happen. And I think it is really really

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<v Speaker 2>important that the European Union continue to use its leverage,

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<v Speaker 2>continue to use its unit and indeed our power and

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<v Speaker 2>our financial wherewithal to support Ukraine in what they're doing,

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<v Speaker 2>which is defending themselves and legitimately under an international law,

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<v Speaker 2>making sure that they are keeping themselves alive as an

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<v Speaker 2>independent country, which they are entitled to do.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the key issues that's been under debate is

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<v Speaker 1>using frozen Russian assets to try and provide financing to

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<v Speaker 1>Ukraine as well. It's been a divisive issue. It does

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<v Speaker 1>it look like from the meetings that you've been having

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<v Speaker 1>with ministers that has progress made on that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think there is progress made. I think it

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<v Speaker 2>will take the Leaders to make the final decision on that,

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<v Speaker 2>to call on the European Commission to bring forward proposals

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<v Speaker 2>to introduce that and to allow the mobilized assets to

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<v Speaker 2>be used again to help Ukraine its financial situation, to

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<v Speaker 2>protect itself to run its economy. So let's see what

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<v Speaker 2>the leaders discuss on that. But it certainly something that

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<v Speaker 2>we support. Belgium clearly has particular issues with it which

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<v Speaker 2>are very very understandable. But if the Leaders can agree

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<v Speaker 2>and then the Commission will bring forward proposal and then

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<v Speaker 2>we'll have to discuss it then. But this is something

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<v Speaker 2>I think you see a huge desire among every member

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<v Speaker 2>state to do something here and to make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>we can use whatever power and leverge that we have.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this an issue for Ireland as a neutral country

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<v Speaker 1>if that money would then be used to buy offensive

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<v Speaker 1>weapons for Ukraine's.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I mean we've given significant support in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>defensive weapons, and there's a wide range in that definition

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<v Speaker 2>of defensive weapons as to what we can do. We've

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<v Speaker 2>given huge support in terms of refugees from Ukraine as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Two percent for population are Ukrainian refugees. So look, we've

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<v Speaker 2>examined any proposals. We are a neutral country in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of we don't join military alliances, but we're absolutely not

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<v Speaker 2>neutral when it comes to the right of Ukraine to

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<v Speaker 2>defend itself from an illegal and full scale invasion by Russia.

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<v Speaker 1>We've been reporting this morning on this new peace plan,

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<v Speaker 1>a new twelve point plan. We're told that European countries

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<v Speaker 1>are working on with Ukraine as well. Is this something

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<v Speaker 1>that Ireland has been involved in.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, it's not something that I've been involved in personally,

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<v Speaker 2>but I can tell you that the agenda for the

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<v Speaker 2>leaders at the European Council meeting this week is very

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<v Speaker 2>much along the lines of helping Ukraine to defend itself,

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<v Speaker 2>helping Ukraine to build up its munitions and its defenses

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<v Speaker 2>in the face of this full scale invasion, and also

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of my own focus, progressing Ukraine's membership of

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<v Speaker 2>the European Union and the accession process. So yesterday in Luxembourg,

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<v Speaker 2>as we as European ministers had a meeting with our

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<v Speaker 2>Ukrainian counterpart, Taraskashus and that was designed and organized with

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<v Speaker 2>Zavia Betel in Luxembourg, designed to you know, continue the

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<v Speaker 2>discussion on Ukraine's incredible effort to join the European Union.

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<v Speaker 2>And again that's the focus of the leaders as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's certainly been a big focus of mind because

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<v Speaker 2>I think that we, you know, for our own security,

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<v Speaker 2>for Ukraine's European ambition, we have to progress this as

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<v Speaker 2>efficiently and as quickly as possible as a merit based process.

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<v Speaker 2>But believe you me, they are really working hard to

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<v Speaker 2>ensure that they reach the thresholds or to join the

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<v Speaker 2>European Union.

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<v Speaker 1>Just on some of the other big issues that we're

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<v Speaker 1>expecting leaders to be talking about. One of them, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>is trade, and we've seen an increased content between the

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<v Speaker 1>EU and China over recent days over the issue of

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<v Speaker 1>the restrictions that China's placed on exporting rare earth metals.

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<v Speaker 1>Now Marschefter its the U Trade chief, says that he'll

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<v Speaker 1>be talking to his Chinese counterparts in the coming days

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<v Speaker 1>more about this. Where does Ireland stand on the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of escalating measures against China in retaliation for those rare

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<v Speaker 1>earth curbs.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, China needs to urgently roll back

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<v Speaker 2>these restrictions and you know, stick to the WTO rules.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, I was at a meeting of

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<v Speaker 2>the G twenty trade ministers two weeks ago in South Africa.

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<v Speaker 2>We'reland as a guest this year, and everybody around that

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<v Speaker 2>table was supportive of the WTO. And I think that

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<v Speaker 2>that's really really important. And we all had different nuances,

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<v Speaker 2>but fundamentally business in breach. And I think Marizefkovich, I

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<v Speaker 2>think I have to say he's one of the busiest

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<v Speaker 2>commissioners I've ever seen in terms of his engagements right

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<v Speaker 2>around the world on really important issues to European jobs,

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<v Speaker 2>European manufacturing, in European trade. And look, I think he's

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<v Speaker 2>going to take a judgment. We will be supporting Commission

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<v Speaker 2>of Separavige in his work. We always do because think

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<v Speaker 2>he's done such a good job and takes into account

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<v Speaker 2>to member states and brings him member states along. I

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<v Speaker 2>suppose as well, but we want to make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>we have a level playing field around the world as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and in China is one of the biggest trading countries

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<v Speaker 2>in the world as well in terms of its own experts,

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<v Speaker 2>so it can't pick and choose.

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<v Speaker 1>Competitiveness is of course the key issue for this commissioner.

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<v Speaker 1>It is one of the items on the agenda for

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<v Speaker 1>the Leader's meeting as well. In terms of how we

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<v Speaker 1>see a simplification agenda being implemented across Europe, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>common complaint from businesses around red tape, but the most

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<v Speaker 1>concrete action that we've seen, certainly in recent days has

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<v Speaker 1>been to soften or push back the implementation of some

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<v Speaker 1>key climate related laws. And thinking about the deforestation law

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<v Speaker 1>being delayed by another six months, for example, is that

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<v Speaker 1>how we should be reading what simplification looks like in

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<v Speaker 1>this competitiveness agenda is essentially weakening some of the climate

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<v Speaker 1>regulations that he has put in place.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's not what ARNA wants to do. We want

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure that we actually can meet our climate

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<v Speaker 2>ambitions because we believe they're absolutely necessary in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>basically saving the planet. But also it is worth recalling

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<v Speaker 2>the European Union in terms of some of the laws,

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<v Speaker 2>which are very well meaning, over the last number of

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<v Speaker 2>years has increased the administrative burden on companies, that's a fact.

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<v Speaker 2>And the Commission, supported by the Member States, has decided

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<v Speaker 2>to roll back on some of this because some of

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<v Speaker 2>the form filling etc. It's just too much, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>been done in the name sometimes of climate targets, are

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<v Speaker 2>in the name of whatever else it is, and that's wrong. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>The difficulty is, of course that they know we can

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<v Speaker 2>only pass this simplification these laws if the Member States

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<v Speaker 2>and the Parliament degree and I think it does need

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<v Speaker 2>a strong cooperation between the Council and the Parliament to

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<v Speaker 2>get this true and to work with the Parliament to

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<v Speaker 2>listen to their concerns. This is a difficult challenge because

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<v Speaker 2>some of these laws, quite frankly, have only been brought

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<v Speaker 2>into the last number of years and we're asking some

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<v Speaker 2>of the same people to roll back in them and

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<v Speaker 2>kind of admit that maybe it wasn't going to work.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's a difficult challenge, but I think we need

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<v Speaker 2>to do it. We badly need to do it because

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<v Speaker 2>our jobs depend on it, and we're coming undersignific and

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<v Speaker 2>external pressure from our investors, from our companies, and particularly

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<v Speaker 2>small and medium enterprises who were the lifeblood of our economies.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think the work of simplification is very urgent.

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<v Speaker 2>There are some rules, of course, in various sectors that

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<v Speaker 2>will be postponed for a while, but we definitely don't

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<v Speaker 2>believe that we should be compromising our climate ambitions.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Thomas Barne, Arland's europe Minister, thank you very much

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<v Speaker 1>for joining us.