1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. The European Union leaders 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: will begin arriving in Brussels later ahead of tomorrow's summers. 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: They're expected to discuss further sanctions on Russia, among other issues. 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: This as we've been reporting on a new European plan 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: drawn up with Kiev which aims to end the war 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: with Russia. For more to discuss. I'm joined by Ireland's 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: europe Minister Thomas Byrne. Minister, great to have you with 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: us in our Brussels studio this morning on the issue, 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: first of all, of sanctions on Russia. The expectation has 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: been there will be in agreement tomorrow. Is that what 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: we should be hoping for from this meeting? 12 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: Well, I certainly hope so certainly what Ireland wants and 13 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: what almost all member states want. I think, like every occasion, 14 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: when we introduce these sanctions, we need to get all 15 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 2: the member states on board. They're not all quite there yet, 16 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: but in you know, previous iterations and multiple times all 17 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: member states have come on board, so I would expect 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,319 Speaker 2: that to happen. And I think it is really really 19 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: important that the European Union continue to use its leverage, 20 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: continue to use its unit and indeed our power and 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: our financial wherewithal to support Ukraine in what they're doing, 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 2: which is defending themselves and legitimately under an international law, 23 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 2: making sure that they are keeping themselves alive as an 24 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: independent country, which they are entitled to do. 25 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: One of the key issues that's been under debate is 26 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: using frozen Russian assets to try and provide financing to 27 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: Ukraine as well. It's been a divisive issue. It does 28 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: it look like from the meetings that you've been having 29 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: with ministers that has progress made on that? 30 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 2: Well, I think there is progress made. I think it 31 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: will take the Leaders to make the final decision on that, 32 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: to call on the European Commission to bring forward proposals 33 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: to introduce that and to allow the mobilized assets to 34 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: be used again to help Ukraine its financial situation, to 35 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: protect itself to run its economy. So let's see what 36 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: the leaders discuss on that. But it certainly something that 37 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: we support. Belgium clearly has particular issues with it which 38 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: are very very understandable. But if the Leaders can agree 39 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: and then the Commission will bring forward proposal and then 40 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: we'll have to discuss it then. But this is something 41 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: I think you see a huge desire among every member 42 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: state to do something here and to make sure that 43 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: we can use whatever power and leverge that we have. 44 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: Is this an issue for Ireland as a neutral country 45 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: if that money would then be used to buy offensive 46 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: weapons for Ukraine's. 47 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 2: Look, I mean we've given significant support in terms of 48 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: defensive weapons, and there's a wide range in that definition 49 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: of defensive weapons as to what we can do. We've 50 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: given huge support in terms of refugees from Ukraine as well. 51 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: Two percent for population are Ukrainian refugees. So look, we've 52 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: examined any proposals. We are a neutral country in terms 53 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: of we don't join military alliances, but we're absolutely not 54 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: neutral when it comes to the right of Ukraine to 55 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: defend itself from an illegal and full scale invasion by Russia. 56 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: We've been reporting this morning on this new peace plan, 57 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: a new twelve point plan. We're told that European countries 58 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: are working on with Ukraine as well. Is this something 59 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: that Ireland has been involved in. 60 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: Well, look, it's not something that I've been involved in personally, 61 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: but I can tell you that the agenda for the 62 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: leaders at the European Council meeting this week is very 63 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: much along the lines of helping Ukraine to defend itself, 64 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: helping Ukraine to build up its munitions and its defenses 65 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 2: in the face of this full scale invasion, and also 66 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: in terms of my own focus, progressing Ukraine's membership of 67 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: the European Union and the accession process. So yesterday in Luxembourg, 68 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: as we as European ministers had a meeting with our 69 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 2: Ukrainian counterpart, Taraskashus and that was designed and organized with 70 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: Zavia Betel in Luxembourg, designed to you know, continue the 71 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: discussion on Ukraine's incredible effort to join the European Union. 72 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: And again that's the focus of the leaders as well, 73 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: and it's certainly been a big focus of mind because 74 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: I think that we, you know, for our own security, 75 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: for Ukraine's European ambition, we have to progress this as 76 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: efficiently and as quickly as possible as a merit based process. 77 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: But believe you me, they are really working hard to 78 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: ensure that they reach the thresholds or to join the 79 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: European Union. 80 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: Just on some of the other big issues that we're 81 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: expecting leaders to be talking about. One of them, of course, 82 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: is trade, and we've seen an increased content between the 83 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: EU and China over recent days over the issue of 84 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: the restrictions that China's placed on exporting rare earth metals. 85 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: Now Marschefter its the U Trade chief, says that he'll 86 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: be talking to his Chinese counterparts in the coming days 87 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: more about this. Where does Ireland stand on the idea 88 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: of escalating measures against China in retaliation for those rare 89 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: earth curbs. 90 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, China needs to urgently roll back 91 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: these restrictions and you know, stick to the WTO rules. 92 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I was at a meeting of 93 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: the G twenty trade ministers two weeks ago in South Africa. 94 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: We'reland as a guest this year, and everybody around that 95 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: table was supportive of the WTO. And I think that 96 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 2: that's really really important. And we all had different nuances, 97 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 2: but fundamentally business in breach. And I think Marizefkovich, I 98 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: think I have to say he's one of the busiest 99 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: commissioners I've ever seen in terms of his engagements right 100 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 2: around the world on really important issues to European jobs, 101 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: European manufacturing, in European trade. And look, I think he's 102 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: going to take a judgment. We will be supporting Commission 103 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 2: of Separavige in his work. We always do because think 104 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 2: he's done such a good job and takes into account 105 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: to member states and brings him member states along. I 106 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 2: suppose as well, but we want to make sure that 107 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 2: we have a level playing field around the world as well, 108 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: and in China is one of the biggest trading countries 109 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: in the world as well in terms of its own experts, 110 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: so it can't pick and choose. 111 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: Competitiveness is of course the key issue for this commissioner. 112 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: It is one of the items on the agenda for 113 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: the Leader's meeting as well. In terms of how we 114 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: see a simplification agenda being implemented across Europe, it's a 115 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: common complaint from businesses around red tape, but the most 116 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: concrete action that we've seen, certainly in recent days has 117 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: been to soften or push back the implementation of some 118 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: key climate related laws. And thinking about the deforestation law 119 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: being delayed by another six months, for example, is that 120 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: how we should be reading what simplification looks like in 121 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: this competitiveness agenda is essentially weakening some of the climate 122 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: regulations that he has put in place. 123 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: No, that's not what ARNA wants to do. We want 124 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 2: to make sure that we actually can meet our climate 125 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: ambitions because we believe they're absolutely necessary in terms of 126 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: basically saving the planet. But also it is worth recalling 127 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: the European Union in terms of some of the laws, 128 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 2: which are very well meaning, over the last number of 129 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: years has increased the administrative burden on companies, that's a fact. 130 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 2: And the Commission, supported by the Member States, has decided 131 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 2: to roll back on some of this because some of 132 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 2: the form filling etc. It's just too much, and it's 133 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: been done in the name sometimes of climate targets, are 134 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: in the name of whatever else it is, and that's wrong. Now. 135 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: The difficulty is, of course that they know we can 136 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: only pass this simplification these laws if the Member States 137 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: and the Parliament degree and I think it does need 138 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: a strong cooperation between the Council and the Parliament to 139 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 2: get this true and to work with the Parliament to 140 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: listen to their concerns. This is a difficult challenge because 141 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: some of these laws, quite frankly, have only been brought 142 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: into the last number of years and we're asking some 143 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: of the same people to roll back in them and 144 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: kind of admit that maybe it wasn't going to work. 145 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: So that's a difficult challenge, but I think we need 146 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 2: to do it. We badly need to do it because 147 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: our jobs depend on it, and we're coming undersignific and 148 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: external pressure from our investors, from our companies, and particularly 149 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: small and medium enterprises who were the lifeblood of our economies. 150 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: So I think the work of simplification is very urgent. 151 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: There are some rules, of course, in various sectors that 152 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: will be postponed for a while, but we definitely don't 153 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: believe that we should be compromising our climate ambitions. 154 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: Okay, Thomas Barne, Arland's europe Minister, thank you very much 155 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: for joining us.