1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of My Heart Radio. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: Welcome Everything, So don't don't don't, Hey, yo, what's up? 3 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Worst Year Ever. My name is Katy Stole. 4 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: Oh cool man Cody Johnson. Yeah, and you and I 5 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: also have a name. Yeah. You don't feel the need 6 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: to like, we're a community of equals and I don't 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: need to prove anything to you. I just did it. 8 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: You just told everybody's name. I did. I got impatient 9 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: out of you on this Now, this, this podcast, if 10 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, is called the Worst Year Ever, and 11 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be about um, but right now there's 12 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: some people in a little little corner of the world 13 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: who were having well, actually not the worst year ever 14 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: by their standards, but a pretty bad year. Yeah. Yeah, 15 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: So welcome to the worst Year currently. That's happening time 16 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: time the show. Welcome to Bad Times. That was an 17 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: al title pitch, but uh yeah, So we figured we'd 18 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: take a pause from going into our deep dies on 19 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: candidates to talk a little bit about what's happening with 20 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,559 Speaker 1: the Kurds and Turkey and over in Syria. And Robert 21 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: of course has a lot of background over there, and 22 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: what better person to help us then? And Robert's gonna 23 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: bite his tongue the whole time. I've got some notes. 24 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: He's not gonna let us know when we pronounced things wrong. 25 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: We're just going to fumble through it. As per agreement 26 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: before this, I too have notes, but I'm just going 27 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: to light them on fire. Um, and then sit quietly 28 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: through out the rest of the episodes, Do every ad 29 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: break another page of notes? Well, it's difficult because all 30 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: of his notes are on the computer, so he won't 31 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: be connected with us anymore. Right, the first page of 32 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: notes goes up in flames, and then so does his device. Wait, no, 33 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: Skype does not work on fire, So we're going to 34 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: troubleshoot this on the fly. It's going to be fun 35 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: short episode. Yeah, probably so, Um yeah, this is this 36 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: is this is our our Rojava episode. I guess there's 37 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: like I have like twenty something pages of typed up 38 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: notes that I took while I was there over my 39 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: like not. I spent a week there in August of 40 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: earlier this year in northeast Syria. Um. And it's like 41 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: the news always refers to it as the Kurds because 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: I think at a certain point in the history of 43 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: the Syrian Civil War, all mainstream foreign journalists just gave 44 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: up and we're like, let's just refer to things by 45 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: the laziest possible term. Um So, the SDF is like 46 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: made up a bunch of different militias. Yeah, and they're 47 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: not all Kurdish. Yeah, the SDF is the Syrian Democratic 48 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 1: Forces and they were um So the way, I guess 49 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: a little bit of backstories. Good back. You know, there 50 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: was a Kurdish political party in northeast Syria called the 51 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: p y D that was initially like a hard line 52 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: Marxist party, and they were doing ship like killing landlords 53 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: and stuff back in the early odds, and they kind 54 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: of win a little bit more uh, a little bit 55 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: less extreme as time went on, and when um the 56 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: Syrians Civil War kicked off. You know, in most of 57 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: the country, the regime was battling with different rebel groups, 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: but in a lot of Northeast Syria they just kind 59 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: of pulled the hell out because they realized they couldn't 60 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: hold it. And so there's this big power vacuum and 61 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: the p y D, which again is this kind of 62 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: Kurdish leftist party, was one of the most organized groups 63 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: in the area, and they kind of wound up taking 64 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: control with a group the help of called p KK, 65 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: which is like a Turkish militant Kurdish group um that 66 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: are considered to be terrorists by the United States and 67 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: by Turkey, but not by a lot of other countries. 68 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: Didn't they done some big thing in the eighties and 69 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: the terrors. Tens of thousands of people have died, and 70 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: most of them have been killed by Turkey. UM. But 71 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: the p k K did a bunch of really awful 72 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: stuff too. Now, what makes the p KK complicated is 73 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: that they're also the ones who saved the z d 74 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: S when ISIS started rampaging like it was they were, 75 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: you know, it was the White PG and the Wye 76 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: p J, which is like the Syrian forces, but in 77 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: the in the early days of the Civil war, they 78 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: were basically just p KK. That's no longer true. But 79 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: like see, this is this is really complicated. There's a 80 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: lot of fucking acronyms and a lot of different groups. UM. 81 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: What's important to understand is that what started out as 82 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: a group of very very um ideological militants, most of 83 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: whom have been fighting for decades against primarily Turkey saw 84 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: the operator the eyes of Isis and the collapse of 85 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: order in their chunk of Syria as an opportunity to 86 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: number one finally control a sizeable chunk of land of 87 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: their own and not just be hiding in the mountains 88 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: of Turkey fighting as guerrillas, but number two institute some 89 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: of these radical political ideas that they had. The guy 90 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: who founded the pak Ak is a dude named up 91 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: de Lagelon, and he was a hard core terrorist and 92 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: he's been trapped alone on an island prison for the 93 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: last twenty years or so um, and he's published a 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: bunch of books by sending them out as legal briefs 95 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: to his lawyers, who then published them as works of 96 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: political theory. And he basically spent a bunch of time 97 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: in prison reading about history and became like like ancient history, 98 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: like like like paleolithic neolithic human history, and became convinced 99 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: that like where everything had gone wrong was the beginning 100 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: of agriculture, when men started to dominate women and we 101 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: went from being a matriarchal society to a patriarchal society. 102 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: So Ajalon's idea was that, Okay, Funckett I was you know, 103 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: I was I was wrong in the past to try 104 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: to like want to institute a Marxist state or whatever 105 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: we like. That's why all these revolutions in the Middle 106 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: East keep failing, as we just keep putting in new 107 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: strongman leaders who do terrible, shitty things, and instead we 108 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: should seek to reform the primary imbalance in our society, 109 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: which is the domination of women by men. So that's 110 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: like the underlying ideology that these groups who wind up 111 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: in charge in Northeast Syria have and like two isn't 112 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: thirteen two fourteen? Um, So they just start kind of 113 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: building a government, um, and using a lot of principles 114 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: that they cribbed from an American anarchist thinker named Murray 115 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: book Chin. It's like focused around communes, like local communes, 116 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: like every neighborhood will have, you know, everyone will get 117 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: together and vote on issues that deal with them immediately, 118 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: and then the elect representatives to represent them for like 119 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: you know, at the city level and so on and 120 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. Um. In every elected position 121 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: they elect a man and a woman. UM. That's one 122 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: of like the core ideas behind it is you you 123 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: never have like one person elected to do a job 124 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: like that, because that's kind of a it's both the 125 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: seed of authoritarianism and it's sort of guarantees I had. UM. 126 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: Someone explained to me when I was in a meeting 127 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: with a couple of Kurdish military leaders, UM, the co 128 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,679 Speaker 1: presidents of security for Rocca, the former capital of Islamic State. 129 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: That UM they're understanding was that if you just had 130 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: it really piste off the coalition having to deal with 131 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: like two elected leaders because coalition forces used to a 132 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: very linear sort of chain of command and it's not 133 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: as much with the the SDF. UM. And they were like, 134 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: but if you have one leader, just because of the 135 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: history of the region, it's going to be a man, 136 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: and then you're gonna wind up reinforcing all of these things. 137 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: So so within the SDF, you mean, there's these two 138 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: elected positions within all aspects of society. So the SDF 139 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: is the military force, UM, and it's you know, the 140 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: Kurds are are who's best known, and at one point 141 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: they were, you know, more than seventy percent of the 142 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: effort UM and actually a lot of Rajava. Now it's 143 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: majority Arabic fighters in the WHITEPG and the YEPG and again, 144 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: this is all so the SDF is a broad umbrella 145 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: organization and there's a number of different militias within it. 146 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,559 Speaker 1: The WIEPG and the YEPG are the largest, but there's 147 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the fighters are Arabic. We 148 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: saw Armenian fighters, Assyrian fighters, Syric fighters, Turkmen fighters, so 149 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: it's it's a very it's basically a collection. What what 150 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: you had in Rojava was all these different minority groups 151 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: who've been traditionally oppressed in Syria and the region. UM 152 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: wound up as the only power in the area. And 153 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: because they were fighting Isis, the US started shipping them 154 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: huge amounts of of weaponry and military training, and they 155 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: kind of nailed it UM to the extent that it's 156 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: you talked to US soldiers about it, Special Forces guys, 157 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: you talked to or you read interviews with some of 158 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: these guys who are like colonel and higher level, and 159 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: they always seem kind of shocked at how well the 160 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: cooperation went. UM. There were no insider attacks, which is 161 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: something that you look in Afghanistan, right and it's it's 162 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: a constant series of US and other Western military and 163 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: political officials getting murdered. UM as a result of somebody 164 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: sneaking their way into the Afghan security apparatus and carrying 165 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: out an attack. Right, that doesn't happen UM in ra Java. 166 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: They're people have obviously died in suicide bombings and stuff, 167 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: but you've never had a guy in the SDF pull 168 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: out a gun and start shooting at an American general, 169 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: which has happened so often in Afghanistan. It's it's basically 170 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: a joke. UM. So it was a really good cooperation. 171 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: They fought very well, UM. And it was one of 172 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: those things where as I was looking reading the stories 173 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: about this place and about the evolution these political ideas 174 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: in the region, you know, from about two fourteen on, UM, 175 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: part of me was like, this sounds amazing because I'm UM. 176 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm personally an anarchist. I'm personally someone who I hold 177 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the things that they were saying they 178 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: were doing and trying to like reform about society are 179 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: things I very much believe in. UM. The kind of 180 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: dismantling of hierarchy and sort of reducing authoritarian impulses in 181 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: government very into the commune aspect of it. It's very 182 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: interesting because it's not what most people I think associate 183 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: with you know, what's happening over there. No, And but 184 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: also it's it was impossible for me to know like 185 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: how real is any of this ship? Yeah, yeah, yeah you. 186 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: One of the things that in my work in Iraq 187 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: has become very clear to me is that the way 188 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: things look on the surface, or the way they were 189 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: reported in the foreign media often has very little to 190 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: do with the actual reality on the ground. And that 191 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: was something I encountered a lot with the Iraqi Kurds. 192 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: The Iraqi kurdistands much better than the rest of Iraq. 193 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: It's a much more effective government, but it's unbelievably corrupt 194 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: and fucked up. And while things are better for women 195 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: there than they are in a lot of the country, um, 196 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: you still don't see them doing much like running things. 197 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: You don't see them doing a lot of important work 198 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: in the society, and not like really public facing positions. 199 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: There's a few. I have met a couple of women 200 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: who were in positions of like management or government. But 201 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: and like the stuff about the the Kurdish female fighters 202 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: in Iraq, they had a few that they would try 203 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: out for the cameras during the worst part of the 204 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: invasion by Isis. But once the fighting died down, those 205 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: women got pushed back and mainly we're doing photo ops. 206 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: That's not the case in Rojava. Um. And it was 207 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: obvious as soon as I crossed the border, just in 208 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: terms of how the women carried themselves, how they dressed, 209 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: the fact that some of the first people I met 210 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: who were like processing our passports and stuff and giving 211 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: us are our passes in order to like travel through 212 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: the country were women who were like just handling administrative jobs. Um. 213 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: And then we started crossing. We crossed the Tigris in 214 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: this little pontoon bridge, which was the only real way, 215 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: and it was it was real pain in the ask 216 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: getting in because we had to get approval with the 217 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: Iraqi government everything. But as soon as we crossed over, um. 218 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: You know, there's checkpoints all throughout the region and there 219 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: would just be women with machine guns at the checkpoints 220 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 1: doing jobs like working with men. Um. It was so 221 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: at first it was really kind of jarring. And there's 222 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: the suspicious part of me that was like, are they 223 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: putting on a show? Um? But you know, the guy 224 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: I was with, Jake, is a former reporter for Vice. 225 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: You were on the site called No No no, yes, yes, 226 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: Jake Tapper, Jake Tapper. We were there mainly to talk 227 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: about the time Monica Lewinsky almost sucked him. Oh he 228 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,239 Speaker 1: did he did this close? This this this close? Yeah. 229 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: Um No. Jake Hanrahan who runs a site called Popular Front, 230 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: and then me, who makes podcasts for the Internet. Neither 231 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: of us are the kind of people you would get 232 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: hundreds of folks to stage, um a series of uh like. 233 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 1: There was a certain point at which we I had 234 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: to accept this couldn't have been staged. The pageantry wouldn't 235 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: have been for you. Yeah, nobody's nobody's getting thousands of 236 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: people to dress up and pretend they're treating women right 237 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: to like impress Robert Evans. Yeah, of the podcast with 238 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: a swear word in the name. Um, but hey, maybe 239 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: you know, hey man, hey, maybe that would be nice. 240 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 1: I would like to be important enough to be gas 241 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: lit to that extent, and that I I hope. So, 242 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: I hope it's Michigan. I would love to be by Michigan. Um. 243 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: So yeah. The first city we entered when we rolled 244 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: into Rojava was this place called Derek, which there's a 245 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: lot of fighting there right now. Um. The Turkish army 246 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: is like kind of pushing into the outskirts of city 247 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: of the city, and the SDF is mounting a pretty 248 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: furious defense. Um. But when we were there, Derek was 249 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: just like incredibly peaceful, very quiet town. The first thing 250 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: I noticed is that the way that sort of cities 251 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: are built in this part of Syria, they have you know, 252 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: you have rows of houses and there will be apartment 253 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: blocks on the top floors, and the bottom floors will 254 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: be shops. And all those shops have like little metal 255 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: grates that pulled out in front when it's time to 256 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: like close up for the night, kind of like in 257 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: a mall or something that I've seen those that yeah yeah, 258 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: yeah UM. And during the days of the Syrian regime, 259 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: they would all be painted with um Syrian like national 260 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: flags like the flag of Ashar al Assad Um. And 261 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: they've been repainted when we were there, UM in lavender 262 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: with green clovers on them and um our. Our fixer, 263 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: this woman named Kabat, who showed us around the country UM, 264 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: said that it had been done by the women in 265 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: town because they were like, well, the regime's gone, there's 266 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: no need to have these fucking flags here, Like let's 267 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: let's make it look nice. Um. And so it was 268 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: a really it was a really pretty and calming place 269 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: to drive into, and we met a lot of journalists. 270 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: There's some really neat folks who had all been working 271 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: in the region for a while, and they all had 272 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: really different opinions on what was going on in ro 273 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: Java and how revolutionary it actually was. And Um I 274 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: met this um cipherin photojournalist named Achilles Um who had 275 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: been in Syria dozens of times. I think, like like 276 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: constantly from the beginning of the war on and Achilles Um. 277 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: You know, it had a lot of praise for like 278 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: the fighting prowess of the YPG and the y PGJ, 279 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: but I think kind of this sense of doom about 280 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: what was going to happen to the whole project, Like 281 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: it was this matter of it can't it's not going 282 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: to last, like the Americans are going to pull out, 283 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: and when they do, Turkey has planes and tanks. Um 284 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: and I would say when talking to foreigners, there were 285 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: two things they all agreed on. One of them was 286 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: that the changes to women's rights in the region in 287 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: the seven or eight years since the establishment of of 288 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: the the Autonomous Region was was remarkable, almost unbelievable. Um. 289 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: And the second thing was that they were completely fucked 290 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: and that was that was not an uncompos One of 291 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: my friends in Iraq who drove us up to the border, 292 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: um and helped us get in. It's a very good 293 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: fixture over there. Um loves going to Rojava. Would visit 294 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: every Ramadan because they didn't have religious there, in his words, 295 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: and so he could get wasted. And he was like, 296 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's great over there. I really like it. 297 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: It's very chill. But you know, they're basically like the 298 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: people in charge were dumb. They weren't willing to compromise 299 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: on any of the things they believed, and so they're 300 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: only friends are the Americans. And let me tell you, 301 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: my American friend, Americans are bad friends currently seeing all 302 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: over the world, but especially there. Um uh yeah, I 303 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: have a quick question. So I know that this week 304 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: there's this power vacuum that sprung up after you know, 305 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: America withdrawing. Uh. And so now the STF is teamed 306 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: up with the Charles Sad and I'm seeing reports that 307 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: the Syrian forces are like now seizing up territory that 308 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: they haven't had in years, and that would be Rojava. Correct, 309 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: So like this specifically hits me a little bit to 310 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: see I say, no, that was coming in sooner or later, 311 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: knowing that America can't stay there forever. But like especially 312 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: this description you're giving us of, like the shops painted 313 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: with these peaceful images as opposed to the nationalistic baganda. 314 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: And so that's the area that they are now reclaiming 315 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: and taking back for their own, well chunks of it. 316 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,959 Speaker 1: So one of the first areas, Yeah, one of the 317 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: first things that went back to the regime's control was Rocca, again, 318 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: the former capital of the Islamic State, which was being 319 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: managed and run by the autonomous government, but was not 320 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: really considered to be a part of Rojava. From one 321 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: thing it was it was Yeah, it was a majority 322 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: um Arab city, and again, like what most of what 323 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: you have going on in Rojah was kind of a 324 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: coalition of different these different little like minority groups. So 325 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: Rocca was not a city they wanted and it was 326 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: not a friendly city to that extent. That was probably 327 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: always going to go back to the control of the 328 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: Syrian government. Um. But yeah, they are taking other areas. 329 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: It's kind of unclear to me, and I think to 330 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: everyone except maybe Bashar al Assad, what the exact extent 331 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: of UM, the absorption of Rojava into the regime is 332 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: going to be. I asked a lot of people about that. 333 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: UM that was obviously the one of the big questions 334 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: on my mind, because I think but al Assad is 335 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: one of, if not the very worst war criminals of 336 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: our age. And you know, one of the things that's 337 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: really controversial within sort of people who are followers of 338 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: the Syrian Civil War, and particularly people who got really 339 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: emotionally uh invested in the rebel movement is the fact 340 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: that in Rojava, the forces there didn't fight the regime. 341 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: They did a little bit early on, at the very 342 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: start of the civil war, that they fought alongside some 343 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: of the groups like the f s A, but that 344 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: that stopped pretty quickly. And there's a lot of reasons 345 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: for that, some of which are kind of beyond the 346 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: scope of what I want to talk about today. But 347 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: the gist of it is that the international community did 348 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: not provide any support to UM, not really to the 349 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: two And this is one thing that leftists get wrong 350 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: a lot when they argue about, like the West giving 351 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: weapons to Jehtas. We didn't give fucking shit to the 352 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: Syrian rebels, like they barely had bullets for their guns. 353 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: You talked to some dudes, um, like I taught when 354 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: I was talking to Achilles, because he was there from 355 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: the beginning of the war. He was friends with uh 356 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: An f s, a leader free Syrian army leader who 357 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: lost I think five of his sons um in the 358 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: fighting against the regime and was sending his men in 359 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: the battle with like a dozen bullets each or something 360 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: like that, like barely any ammunition, certainly not enough to 361 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: get into firefights with soldiers who were equipped. And he 362 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: wound up. This guy went up joining the Islamic state, 363 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 1: and he didn't do it because he was a hard 364 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: line Islamist. He didn't do it because he wanted to 365 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: establish a caliphate. He did it because he wanted bullets, 366 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: and he wanted to kill Bashar al Assad's men because 367 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: they killed his sons. And Achilles told me, like I 368 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: was asking, can I come back and in bed with 369 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: you guys again, And he's like, you know, I would 370 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: love to have you back, um, but you know, if 371 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: Myamir says I gotta kill you, I gotta kill you. Um. 372 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: So it was like these sort of decisions, like hard 373 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: decisions are made by people in hard circumstances. And it's 374 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: certainly worth criticizing the fact that the Rojava didn't really 375 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: directly fight with the regime, but they had a situation 376 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: where the regime didn't have any power over them because 377 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: of the US presence in the region, the Syrian Arab 378 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: air force, there was there was no chance that assad 379 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: or Russia was going to bomb ro Java. And if 380 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: they were going to bomb Rojava, and they're only option 381 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: for taking back that land would have been ground forces. 382 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: And the Syrian Arab army is not a good army, 383 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: not even today. They only ever had air support and 384 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: artillery um, and whereas the forces of the FDS SDF 385 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: are very good fighters. So um, it's a situation where 386 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: because um, they were able to have a really good 387 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: holding pattern, they had oil, which Bashard needed, so they 388 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: would sell him oil, and when he made demands or 389 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: did things they didn't like, they would cut off the oil. 390 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: So they had a lot of power. Was actually a 391 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: pretty good situation to be in. And I asked everyone 392 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: i could about bush Are all aside and about the 393 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: Syrian government, like how would you feel about it? Taking 394 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: back over what because that's been Assad's line the whole time, 395 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: is that this is going to be reabsorbed into the country, 396 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: And I didn't meet a single person who wanted that 397 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: to happen. Now. It was kind of confusing because none 398 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: of them wanted to be separate from Syria either. Um 399 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: A lot of them had family and other series cities 400 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: and stuff like. So it was very complicated. People were like, 401 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: the most common thing I heard is people saying, like, 402 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: I just kind of want things to go on the 403 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: way they have been. This is going pretty well because 404 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: their whole idea of how society should be and how 405 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: community should be structured lends itself to that, like, well, 406 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: we want things to be the same they are here now, 407 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: but we also want to be a part of Syria 408 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: and have these uh these relationships. Yeah, I want to 409 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: be able to visit my family in Damascus and stuff 410 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: like I don't. Yeah, so it's it's a really it 411 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: was really complicated, but nobody wanted to be back under 412 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: the regime's thumb. Now that said, there are factions within Rojava. 413 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: There's like like there are within any organization that includes 414 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: millions of people. Um so my, my fixer, Habbat. So, 415 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: whenever you're in a place like this um, a lot 416 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: of how you you interpret the place and experience it 417 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: is very heavily dependent upon your fixers, the people who 418 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: lead you around and interpret for you and introduce you 419 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: to this part of the world. That's a very critical thing, 420 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: and it really changes how you experience it. And Habbat 421 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: is she's not an ideologue in terms of she she's 422 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: not unreasonably sort of married to the y PG or 423 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: the y p J or or the p k K 424 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: or any of these groups. But she's a fundamentally a 425 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: believer in the Rojavan revolution um and very much a 426 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: believer in sort of this women's liberation movement. She identified 427 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: herself as an an anarchist to me and kind of 428 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: our last couple of days together. But she's so she's 429 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: in this interesting position of having really good relations with 430 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: a lot of these people, knowing how to work with 431 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: them and knowing how to get what she wanted from them, 432 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: but also not being like blinded um by ideology. And 433 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: one of the things she repeatedly pointed out to me 434 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: is when because I asked a bunch of different men 435 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: um what they thought about all the changes to women's 436 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: rights in the region, and I got a lot of 437 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: different answers, and whenever somebody gave a really positive, detailed answer, 438 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: she would tell me if she thought they were lying 439 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 1: or not. What makes you think they're lying? She's like, Oh, 440 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot of these guys are just fake feminists. 441 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: A lot of them are just sort of yeah, yeah, yeah, 442 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. We had a lot of conversations about that, 443 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: you say the yeah, and one of those it was 444 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: interesting because one of the guys she believed. We were 445 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: out in front of this UM, this Women's Economic Development 446 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 1: Headquarters UM, which was like this this or this building 447 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: that like women would go to if they're like, hey, 448 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: I want to I want to learn to like do something. 449 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: I've been a you know, I was married at the 450 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: age of like fourteen, and I don't have any like 451 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: job skills, and like I want to live independently, and like, okay, 452 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: well here we'll find you some training, like what are 453 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: your interests like that it was a place for that, 454 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: So we we visit, we interview one of the women there, 455 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: UM a couple of the women there, and then we 456 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: um we're coming out and there's a guard station outside 457 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: of it right, because we're in the city where in 458 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: Komischlow is the most dangerous city outside of Rocca. Um. 459 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: It was partly controlled still by the Syrian regime, and 460 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: so you'd see like there's would be neighborhoods that would 461 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: be but char al Assad's picture in the neighborhoods that's 462 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: the YPG. So it was a little bit of a 463 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: sketchy place. There were a decent number of ISIS attacks there. 464 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: So there were guards out inside in front of this building. 465 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: Two of the guards were young women, UM with you know, 466 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: a K forty seven's and uniforms and stuff. And then 467 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: one of the guards was an older man in his sixties. UM. 468 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,239 Speaker 1: And I went up to him and I asked him 469 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: a couple of questions. UM. I asked him how he 470 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: felt about working, you know, as as an older man 471 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: and a man who like wouldn't have grown up with this, 472 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: how he felt seeing women with guns uh and working 473 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: alongside them, And he was like, I feel really good 474 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: about it. I'm very happy to see that. Um. I'm 475 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: I'm happy that they're contributing to the fight. Like we 476 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to do this without the women. UM. 477 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: And I asked him if he considered himself a feminist UM, 478 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: And he thought about that for a second, and he said, 479 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any revolution without the women, um, 480 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: which is a line a line from Abdulla Agelan there's 481 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: no revolution without the women, or the women are the 482 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: center of the revolution, and you can translate anything different ways, 483 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: and she believed him. There was this other guy we 484 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: met um in Rocca, one of the co presidents of 485 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: the Defense Counsel, who was I thought, very nice and 486 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: very um uh said all of the right things, was 487 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: very eloquent about his things. UM. But the way that 488 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: his partner looked at him during a couple of lines, 489 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: who was who was a woman and a very very 490 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: tough lady, UM Like you could just see it in 491 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,239 Speaker 1: her eyes and the way that she directed people. And 492 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: then Kabat afterwards was like, oh, yeah, that guy, if 493 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: if things went back to the way they were tomorrow, 494 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: that guy wouldn't have any trouble. And essentially yeah, yeah. 495 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: And so that's one of the things that really worries 496 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: when we talk about the regime coming back in and 497 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: Russia coming back in, is there are a lot of 498 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: true believers within the Rojavan project. I met a bunch 499 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: of them, people who were very hard to to do 500 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: something incredible. Um. I'm sure there's also people who have 501 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: been kind of frustrated with all of those women's ship um, 502 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: and if they get an opportunity to push things in 503 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: the other direction and have the backing of another power, 504 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: they'll do it. Now, I don't think that's the majority 505 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: of people involved, particularly in the government, because a lot 506 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: of these people, a lot of the core of the 507 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: movement are former or current members of the p JK 508 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: who were struggling in the mountains for decades and very hard, 509 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: strong believers and a lot of this stuff. But there's 510 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: definitely factions that I think would have no issue m 511 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: going back to the way things. It just sounds that 512 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: it's tenuous enough that this kind of upset right now 513 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: is it's the whole thing in like great peril, the 514 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: whole idealogical experiment, not experiment, but you know what I mean, 515 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: Like this is relatively new and it doesn't have enough 516 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: roots to necessarily sustain this, survive this. Um, we take 517 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: a real quick break for things. Oh you know, Katie, 518 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: speaking of breaks, Yeah, you know, what will heal any 519 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: broken bones. You have what the products and services advertised 520 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: on their show. That's an FDA backed guarantee. I should 521 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: have known that's where you were going with this health 522 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: I've got so many broken bones, so I'm excited about 523 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: these products and health taps, download bones, vowels where Yeah, bones, 524 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: you've heard it here, folks. Whatever products you buy from 525 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: a podcast heal broken bones. So everything, don My bones 526 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: are all healed, and that's great news for me. Yeah, 527 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: and we're back for more talking about stuff and less 528 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: talking about bones. Yeah, there's probably still some talking of 529 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: bones to come. I'm waiting for about that. Assume that 530 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: there's more bone talk. Yeah, yeah, there there's gonna be 531 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: more owne talk. Welcome to bone Talk. Welcome to bone Talk. 532 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: So I want to talk a little bit about the 533 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: Women's Economic Development Headquarters. UM. So, this is a place 534 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: we went to on our second day there, and it 535 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: was really remarkable spot. Um. For one thing, it was 536 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: by far the cleanest place that we went into up 537 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: to that point, because we'd mainly been staying in like 538 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: hotels and stuff for journalists. And I don't know if 539 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: you guys know this, but journalists are filthy degenerates. Familiar. Yeah, 540 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: I've heard. Actually the hotel we stayed in and Durek 541 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: was lovely, but I I it was a very nice room. Yeah, 542 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: filled with filthy degenerates. Um. So the walls of this 543 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: place and the walls of most of sort of the 544 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: administrative buildings in Rojava were covered in pictures of martyrs 545 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: um the shahids, which is like a word from martyr 546 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: um and uh. In this case, it was the picture 547 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: of a bunch of different female martyrs, including um, a 548 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: young woman who blew herself up destroying an ISIS tank 549 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: during the battle for Kobani. So you see a lot 550 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: of the same faces UM in a lot of these walls. 551 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: And this was the faces of all a lot of 552 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: the young women who had died fighting. And it was 553 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: it was a really good constant reminder of just like 554 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: among other things, like the cost of the fighting against ISIS. 555 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,239 Speaker 1: They lost about eleven thousand people um fight and a 556 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: lot of them were very very young. Um. You looked 557 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: at the age on the gravestones, and I think seventeen 558 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: was a pretty common age UM, and some people who 559 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: were younger. UM. So it's another picture you'll see. You 560 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: saw all over the place and I saw in the 561 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,239 Speaker 1: wall this building is the picture of Abdulla Alan. They 562 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: call him Apo, which I think means uncle, like a 563 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: p o is kind of the nickname for him. And 564 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: there he's taken very seriously. There's a mix some people 565 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: he's revered, vered almost as like identified um, and and 566 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: there are there is some like concerning sort of like 567 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: leader worship that I saw amongst sort of segments there 568 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: and other people just what they're doing, yeah, yeah, and 569 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: it it kind of did strike me that they're acts. 570 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: He's accidentally in the best situation possible for them, because 571 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: I think it's it's arguable that in some situations you 572 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: do need a figurehead like that for people to rally behind, 573 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: and especially just sort of given some cultural nuances of 574 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: that area, that's very common. Every movement has their kind 575 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: of strong male figurehead, and they have that. But he's 576 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: also locked in an island prison thousands of miles away, 577 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: so he can't actually do anything. It was kind of 578 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: perfect yeah, um, but yeah, you would see the pictures 579 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: of him are kind of hilarious because they're all at 580 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: some point before he got arrested. This guy just had 581 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: thousands of pictures taken of him, and in some of 582 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: them it's like the normal militant thing where we have 583 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: like he'll be in fatigues or whatnot, directing troops. But 584 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 1: most of them he's wearing like Cosby sweaters and like 585 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: he's literally he's got his head in his hands like this, 586 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,959 Speaker 1: and he's smiling and it looks like it looks like 587 00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: your your chubby uncle in a caussted was it was 588 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: around the term of the that makes sense, that kind 589 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: of like small clamor pick. Yeah, it was, there's really weird. 590 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: You would see some really strange ones. It was a 591 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: lot to like keep from giggling at a couple of points. Anyway, 592 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: So we go into this room and were these pictures 593 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: all over the walls, and I sit there and I 594 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: talked to this woman who's um. She was an older lady, 595 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: the head of the Economic Development Council. And from the 596 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: mountains is the term that everyone used for the Kurds 597 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: who were part of the movement, who had clearly been 598 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: part of the p KK before, Like the mountains of 599 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: Turkey is what they're in Iraq or what they're referring to. 600 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: So like that was the term that would be like 601 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: whispered whenever we'd meet somebody, and they were usually the 602 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: people who would be very very stern, very hard eyes, 603 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: very taciturn and kind of less like friendly and smiley. UM, 604 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: and you know, someone would whisper at some point. I 605 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: think he's from the mountains. I think she's from the mountains. 606 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: It is just kind of a thing over there. So 607 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: we meet this woman, we're sitting were talking with her. Um. 608 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: She explains to us in a lot of detail about UM. Yeah, 609 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: I I'm just gonna read from my notes actually here. UM. 610 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: So she's talked to us about the struggle against patriarchy, 611 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: which she saw is much more difficult and dangerous than 612 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: the struggle they had fought against isis UM. One of 613 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: the lines that really stuck out to me was it 614 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: is always poor women, those with no solution who come here. 615 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: So these are the women who were like coming in 616 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: for help from this place. She told us about a 617 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: deaf woman who had come by it recently, was the 618 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: widow of a martyr. UM and her parents had wanted 619 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: to take the kids she'd had with her dead husband 620 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: because they didn't believe she could take care of them, 621 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,239 Speaker 1: and she had no income to do so. And so 622 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: one of the things that center had done recently was 623 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: put this woman in training for a job as a seamstress, 624 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: and she had been able to get work and like 625 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: keep her children and like maintain her family. So that's 626 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: like an example of the sort of work they were doing. Yeah. Um. 627 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: One of the lines she said that really stuck out 628 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: to me was if you fall into the mentality of capitalism, 629 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: you were already a martyr. She didn't bring up Sheryl 630 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: Sandberg's lean in um, but that's when she was referring 631 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: to is we don't Our goal with this place isn't 632 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: to make women into like entrepreneurs that they can create 633 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: giant businesses and get rich. Our goal is to help 634 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: women who have been marginalized to the sidelines of our 635 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: society take roles in the center of our society. And 636 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: it's it's not about making money. Our goal isn't for 637 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: her to like create a sewing app or it's not 638 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: like more females. It's able to be like self sustainable 639 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: to live a life, and yeah, not need to be 640 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,959 Speaker 1: in fear and all that. Yeah, she said. Another thing 641 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: she said was Western women, Uh, they work but receive less, 642 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: which I think she was referring to the pay gap 643 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: there because they work in the mentality of the men. 644 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: If I am free here, I can only be as 645 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: free as the other women here. Um. So is this 646 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: understanding that like, if our equality is based on us 647 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: acting like men, that's not real equality. That was the 648 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: attitude she expressed to me and her you know, she's 649 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: one of the people. I asked if she wanted regime 650 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: can troll of the area to to return um, and 651 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: she had a very hard line on that. Um. She 652 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: said that she did not want We do not want 653 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: to be a state, was her line. Um. So, she 654 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: did not want reintegration of the Syrian government. She didn't 655 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: want statehood at all. Um. The term she used and 656 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: that most people would use was autonomous. You know, we 657 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: want to remain autonomous. That's what's important to us. So, Yeah, 658 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: that was a really interesting interview to me, and I've 659 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: got more like one of the things. Yeah, I have 660 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: a whole long recorded interview with her that I'm in 661 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: the process of getting translated. Unfortunately, my translators are all 662 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: based in Rojava. Uh so some of them have been 663 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: getting shelled by the Turks. So it it's gonna Part 664 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: of why we're doing some of this today is it's 665 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: going to take a bit longer for me to get 666 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: this series out because that's not the ideal situation. So 667 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: another place we went to was jin War. Jin is 668 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: the Karmaji Kurdish word for women, UM and war means 669 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: land UM, and so women's land. It's a village and 670 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: all women village UM. That's located in Rojava, not that 671 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: far from Comische low Um and it was it was 672 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: pretty small when we went there. I think there were 673 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: about a dozen or so families UM, but it was 674 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: only around a year old and it was really beautiful. 675 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: For one thing, UM lavender painted walls again, which I 676 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: I I started to recognize as a bit of a theme. 677 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: Very orderly, spacious homes built around all very eco friendly. 678 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: So one of the things in the Rojavan constitution was 679 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: UM a focus on ecology UM because the the American 680 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: anarchist who is really influential to they're thinking, a guy 681 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: named Murray buck Chin was like one of the very 682 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,280 Speaker 1: first people back in the sixties who was like, climate 683 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: change is going to be a problem. So that's a 684 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: big part of the ideology at least UM it's the 685 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: it's the aspect of their constitution that they made the 686 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: least progress on, because when you're fighting a war for extermination, 687 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: recycling isn't of their priorities. But this place sounds incredibly fascinating, 688 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: an interesting. Yeah, progressive in so many ways. Uh yeah, 689 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: this is this is wild to me. I mean, to 690 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: include ecology in your actual constitution is when something when 691 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,439 Speaker 1: we're battling for people to even acknowledge that climate change 692 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: is a real thing. Yeah, we're still having like is 693 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: it just bad if we kill all the whales? I mean, 694 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: they're kind of dicks, hoard the water. Make a quote 695 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: from our constitution. It is a quote the whales are dicks. Which, Yeah, 696 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson's anti whale legenda, it hasn't It does not 697 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: look good for Thomas Jefferson. Yeah, that's the one. The 698 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: one problem with Thomas Jefferson. The one problem otherwise is 699 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: hatred of whales. Yeah. Yeah, nothing nothing else. They're nothing 700 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: else going on with that guy. Okay. Um, So one 701 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 1: of the people I met in jin Are was a 702 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: German woman. Um, very German, very heavily tattooed. Um seemed 703 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: to be I think I would guess in her late 704 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: thirties early forties. UM. And she spoke what sounded to 705 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: me at least like fluent uh Cormagi Kurdish as well 706 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: as as pretty good English. UM. And she had volunteered 707 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: to live there and had been living there pretty much 708 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: since the beginning and was clearly like one of the 709 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: people helping to organize it. And yet looking at jin 710 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: war kind of the the cynical asshole and me wanted 711 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: to pick it apart because it was very small. You know, 712 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: it's not a big village. You're talking a couple of 713 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: dozen people with all the kids and stuff in total, 714 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: and that that's the kind of thing that you could 715 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: look at and be like, well, maybe this is just 716 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: like a tempkin village purely for show, and it's it 717 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: certainly doesn't seem that significant when you're talking about you know, 718 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: there's four million people in Rojava. We're talking about a 719 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: war that's killed hundreds of thousands, and you know, in 720 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: the context of a global authoritarian resurgence that's like still 721 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,919 Speaker 1: threatening to to to kill us all. Um. But even 722 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: kind of with all of that in mind and like 723 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: looking at the small scale of it, it still felt 724 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: um remarkable to me. Um. The energing there was was 725 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: something special, and I think the audacity of what they 726 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: were going for their um was humbling. Uh. It really 727 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: impressed me. We talked to a number of women there. UM. 728 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: One woman who had like she had a tattoo on 729 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: her arm of flowers, which struck me because you don't 730 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: see a lot of tattoos in that part of the world. 731 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,720 Speaker 1: Although as I went on through a Java actually encountered 732 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: there's a huge tattoo culture that's taken off there just 733 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. But her husband was UM. 734 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: She she noticed that her husband was an alcoholic h 735 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: and she reported him to the women's councils through the 736 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: women's houses, which are these buildings that they set up 737 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: in every town and city in Rojava where women can 738 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: come and get help if they need it. UM. So 739 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: she reported him to the women's councils, and they suggested 740 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 1: that she leave and moved to gen War Um, which 741 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: she had done with her kids. UM. And so she 742 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: was like learned they were farming. They grew a significant 743 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: amount of food, really tasty cucumbers. UM. And you hear 744 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: about cumbers that often. I'll say that interjection. Tasty cucumber 745 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: is not something I associate anyway, they actually did. Like 746 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: then I went to a couple of farms the agriculture. 747 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: There's really good, really like better tasting cucumbers than I've 748 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: ever had. And I don't I don't like cantaloupe, It's 749 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: garbage fruit. But their cantaloupe was fucking delicious. It was 750 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: like nothing I'd ever eaten before. And they had these 751 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: one of the things they were doing with these farms, 752 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, one of which was small and one of 753 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: which was medium sized, I would say, like capable of 754 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: growing you know, truck fulls of food um acres and 755 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: six big hoop houses um. And it was they were 756 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: trying to do like all organic um uh, fertilizers and stuff. 757 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: Because the Rojava is traditionally it's like the Kansas of Syria. 758 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: It's like the breadbasket. It grows a shipload of food 759 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 1: um and the regime had just been pumping in fertilizers 760 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 1: and pesticides for years to try to maximize production. And 761 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: people there would say that like it really decreased the 762 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: quality of the food and the flavor of the food 763 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: UM and was also bad for the soil, so a 764 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: big part of what they were doing over there was 765 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: soil reclamation. That was part of what they were doing 766 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: in gen War, part of where they were doing at 767 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: this um. I went to another, a woman's farming commune 768 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: um that was a separate thing. So there there are 769 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: a few things like this where it's all or majority 770 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: women engaging in some large undertaking. It was really interesting 771 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: to see and uh jim War itself like consisted of 772 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: there were a couple of Kurdish women, There was obviously 773 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: that German lady. There were Arabs, there were Yazd's. It 774 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 1: was really a very polyglot sort of culture. And that 775 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: was really impressive to see, especially since, like one of 776 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: the criticisms that I repeatedly heard about Rajava before going 777 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: there was that it was really just like a Kurdish 778 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: supremacist project. And I could say pretty conclusively I didn't 779 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: see any fucking evidence of that. And I talked to 780 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: a lot of Arabs and Assyrians and Turkmen. Yeah, that 781 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: was gonna be my question. So it's not just I mean, 782 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 1: it's not just Kurdish people that are living there. This 783 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: is a mixture, but I mean, primarily the Curds were 784 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: the like start of it, the core of it, and 785 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: part of that just because the Curds are really fucking 786 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: good fighters, um, and they've been working, they've been wanting 787 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: a place that can be I mean, they're a land list. 788 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: They don't have any place there. Yeah there, and they're 789 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: they're they're um they've been organized politically for a long time. 790 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, Um. It was really uh, it was really interesting. 791 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: One of the things as I was leaving Um, I 792 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: looked back at the gate to gen War and so 793 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: that it had the name jin War printed in um 794 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: in in English characters on the on the gate, and 795 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: one side of it said gin and one side of 796 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: it said war. Um. And I expressed to Kabbat that 797 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: that struck me particularly because it's kind of like a 798 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: bit of a like obviously the literal translation is women's land, 799 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: but kind of reading it in English a mix of 800 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: English and Kurdish is women's war. Um. Is what a 801 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 1: lot of the women they were talking to me about 802 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: is that like, we see this as a we see 803 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: this struggle for equalities essentially kind of a military undertaking, um. 804 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: And that's the way we're proceeding with it. Yeah, it 805 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: was really interesting to me. Um, you know, I could 806 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: go through a bunch of stuff. I it's one of 807 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: those things that's like when the full series comes out, 808 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: it will be um, probably like six to eight episodes. 809 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 1: This is fascinating to me. And it's just like such 810 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: a you know, I've ever said this expresses a few times. 811 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: It's just really challenging my conceptions of what life is 812 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: like over there. And you know, we get just these 813 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: broad stroke images and pictures of of of who these 814 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: people are and it's nothing nothing to do with this note. 815 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,880 Speaker 1: It's an important portrait too, right. Do you have a 816 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: lot of contact with people over there? Yeah, yeah, I've 817 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: been in contact with a few of my friends over there. 818 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: It's a little bit um erratic, shall we say, just 819 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: because there's a lot going on. Um, But what I 820 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: hear is very worrying. Now, it's not like a lot 821 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,280 Speaker 1: of people have died. Um, it's not a situation where 822 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: at this point the SDF isn't helpless against the Turkish advance. Um. 823 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: So one of the things we saw when we were there, 824 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: I was sometimes just within a couple hundred feet of 825 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,959 Speaker 1: the Turkish border. There's this gigantic wall, huge Stone Wall 826 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: looming over you through huge sections of the trip there, 827 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: so it was always in everyone's mind. And there were 828 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: while we were there, are to when the President of 829 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: Turkey made numerous statements about wanting to destroy the hPG, 830 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: wanting to kill all the terrorists over there. So they 831 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: were like numerous days where like suddenly security would be 832 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,760 Speaker 1: heightened and like we'd all walk around knowing, well, okay, 833 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: the Turks might invade today. I have a question, maybe 834 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: it's a dumb one, but we mold over it a 835 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,720 Speaker 1: little bit last week on even more News, What our nations, 836 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: What our nations go? Uh No, So I understand Air 837 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: Towan having issues with Kurdish within Turkey and what's been 838 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: going on with terrorist organizations there which they consider to 839 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: be but versus going into Syria right now? Is it 840 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: because Rojava and the organization feels like a threat to him? 841 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 1: I am just curious if you could talk a little 842 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: bit about that. This is a very complicated um so 843 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to do my best to explain it. The 844 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: the surfaced and simplest answer is that the p k 845 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: K are seen as and not entirely without right, a 846 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: terrorist group in Turkey, and it definitely carried out attacks 847 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: like that. I would say one of one of the 848 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,960 Speaker 1: issues that we haven't discussing this is like people here 849 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: terrorists now and they think ISIS are all kind of 850 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: where like their only goal is to kill innocent people. 851 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,719 Speaker 1: They're more like the I Rara was back in the day, 852 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: where there's individual actions they take that you that are 853 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: deplorable and horrible, and targeting of civilians is never justified. 854 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,240 Speaker 1: But they're not just trying to kill people. They're fighting 855 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: a struggle for independence and they have there's a lot 856 00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 1: of logical arguments, and they can point to a tross 857 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 1: Citi's by the other side. It's that sort of struggled. 858 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,400 Speaker 1: So the p k K is a group that has 859 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: carried out and continues to carry out attacks on Turkey 860 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: when we were there, like the day that we landed 861 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 1: in Iraq because we had to cross over into Syria 862 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: from Iraq, um the Turkish ambassador to Kurdistan was murdered 863 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: uh in our Bill, which is normally a pretty safe city, 864 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: by a couple of p k K guys, And it 865 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 1: was a kind of thing like nobody knew who did it, 866 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: but also everybody knew who had it. Like there was 867 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: not not a doubt in anyone's head that it was 868 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: the PK separate from STF. It's but there, I know 869 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 1: there's ties, but there were ties. It was much more 870 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: tied earlier on. So earlier on the hPG and the 871 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,799 Speaker 1: y pg J. We're basically just rebranded p KK. That's 872 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: certainly no longer the case. And for one thing, most 873 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: of the people making up those organizations have never been 874 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: to Turkey, were not alive to take part in any 875 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: of the PKK's main struggles. Um. They were Syrian civilians 876 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: until the revolution happened when they were fourteen or fifteen, 877 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: and then they wind up to fight Isis or whatever. Um. 878 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:08,840 Speaker 1: So that's uh, there's it's there's not a zero connection 879 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: to them. But also, like you know, one of the 880 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,800 Speaker 1: things you can point out, while the PKK has continued 881 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,439 Speaker 1: their guerrilla war against the Turks, it's not like they're 882 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: firing Javelin missiles on Turkish Leopold tanks inside southern Turkey. 883 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,319 Speaker 1: Like they've been smart about it. They haven't been just like, well, 884 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 1: let's take all of our U S guns and immediately 885 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: use them to go attack Turks and Turkey. Um, like 886 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,920 Speaker 1: they're not idiots. UM. So Radwin's justification for the invasion 887 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: is that UM. And I think it's one that a 888 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,280 Speaker 1: lot of people who don't know much about the situation 889 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: can see as understandable because it's like, oh, they're terrorists, 890 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,359 Speaker 1: like isis isis bad, so Turkey should get to funk 891 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: with these guys. It goes back much deeper than that. 892 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,719 Speaker 1: One of the bigger issues is that Turkey has a 893 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,680 Speaker 1: long and horrific history of repressing the Kurdish people, including 894 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: banning the speaking of the language and the teaching of 895 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:57,880 Speaker 1: it in school. I guess this is yeah, and there's 896 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: there's a saying in Turkey that there's no such thing 897 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: as Kurds. They're just mountain Turks who lost their language. Um, 898 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 1: I think is one of the phrases used. UM. And 899 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 1: there was I think in UM. There was an uprising 900 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 1: in southern Turkey by the Kurdish population, specifically by a 901 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,960 Speaker 1: bunch of young Kurdish uh militants UM with an organization 902 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: called the y d g h yet a gahash Um 903 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 1: and they got massacred in the cities they were in, 904 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 1: got pounded into fucking concrete and huge. Almost no one 905 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: reported on. There were almost no reporters there, but it 906 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 1: was catastrophic crime. And so Urdawan sees not just the 907 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 1: p KK as a threat, but he sees the idea 908 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:44,560 Speaker 1: of an organized Kurdish state based along revolutionary militant lines 909 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,800 Speaker 1: as a threat that he can deal with the Iraqi 910 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: Kurds because they're fundamentally more mainstream, more capitalists, they're not 911 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: they're willing to work with him. The Syrian Kurds are 912 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 1: not well, and they've got this ideology and they're building 913 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: something there and it's to their land border, and so 914 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 1: that right here feels like a threat, and here's this 915 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to go in um and Dan racism, but also 916 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,319 Speaker 1: the political project is m yeah. Yeah. And also the 917 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: fact that you know, Turkey controlled Syria up until about 918 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,360 Speaker 1: a century or so ago, so Arede is definitely I 919 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: think in kind of the same way that Vladimir Putin 920 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: there's some desire in his part to like reconstitute the 921 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,279 Speaker 1: geographical like scope of the Soviet Union. I think there's 922 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 1: some of that with are to one as well. I 923 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,400 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about about Russia. So we also have 924 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: been seeing reports that now uh Vladimir Putin Russia has 925 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: deploying troops to help keep the advancing the Syrian government 926 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,279 Speaker 1: and the turk Ships forces Turkish forces that keep them 927 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 1: keep the peace. I guess kind of feeling the vacuum 928 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,440 Speaker 1: again left by America one of the uh yeah, yeah, sorry, no, No, 929 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: I was just kind of generally lobbing that out there 930 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,840 Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts, because, like, I understand that on 931 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: the service level, but I'm sure you've had a lot 932 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: more information that can help us understand it a bit more. No, 933 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,680 Speaker 1: I mean, that's essentially accurate, and I think it's like 934 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: a mark of what a clusterfuck this decision has been, 935 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,319 Speaker 1: outside of its immoral like connotations, outside just what a 936 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,399 Speaker 1: bad idea it was. You had a situation where there 937 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: was not war in Rojaba, there was not fighting. There 938 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: were occasional ISIS sleeper cell attacks, but it was very safe. 939 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: I never felt, um, you know, like I was in 940 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,720 Speaker 1: serious danger walking around in the cities at night or whatever. 941 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: So many places where you have felt that, Yeah, it was. 942 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,240 Speaker 1: It was a very safe place. There was not active fighting, 943 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 1: um And the only thing that was required to maintain 944 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 1: that situation was two d U S Sports Special Forces 945 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,279 Speaker 1: guys chilling out on basis and the knowledge that if 946 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: anyone bombed them, it would be a thing. And now 947 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 1: that that's been removed, this situation where there was not 948 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: active fighting has turned into what is essentially a war 949 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 1: between Russia, Turkey, the Syrian government in this autonomous region, 950 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,160 Speaker 1: like within a week. It's an un speakable cluster fuck 951 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: with huge implications. Um. And it's just so dumb that 952 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,480 Speaker 1: none of this needed to happen. And it creates a 953 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:14,399 Speaker 1: situation where like now any any solution or anything that 954 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 1: we do will make it even worse. Like as opposed 955 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,160 Speaker 1: to staying there, now that we've left, it's created all 956 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,360 Speaker 1: these other tensions that getting involved and is even more complicated. 957 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what could even be done at this point. 958 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,400 Speaker 1: Like I guess I'm always in support of like a 959 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,120 Speaker 1: no fly zone being established, but like now that's so 960 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,560 Speaker 1: much messier of an ever we had one over ro Java, 961 00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: Um and it worked. Um yeah, it's it's well, I mean, 962 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: now we're traders, we can't be trusted, I mean, and 963 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,920 Speaker 1: his implications around the world. Uh, it just speaks to 964 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,960 Speaker 1: who we are and who President Trump is and where 965 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: how reliable we are. Um. But even if we were 966 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 1: to undo this, like right now, they hate us, like 967 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 1: like they can't trust us. I'm not sure they never 968 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: trusted us individually. I will say they're individual Americans, individual 969 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:15,040 Speaker 1: soldiers that um, they absolutely trusted UM, the American government. 970 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,200 Speaker 1: They're not dumb people. They read history books. They know 971 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 1: what anybody actually right now nothing that we do. UM. 972 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: I don't know that I agree with that. I do 973 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 1: think if we could now obviously because Russia is moving in, 974 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,840 Speaker 1: because the Syrian government's moving in, because there's Turkish troops, like, 975 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,960 Speaker 1: I don't know how you would that it would be 976 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: very a dicey maneuver to try to reinsert American troops. 977 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: That said, I know for a fact they would prefer 978 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,360 Speaker 1: to be working with US than the Russians in the 979 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,799 Speaker 1: Syrian government. And there was a widespread nobody I met 980 00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 1: who I felt like had a really nuanced understanding of 981 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,759 Speaker 1: the international situation. None of them thought the US was 982 00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,080 Speaker 1: going to stay. Everyone thought Turkey was going to invade. 983 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,520 Speaker 1: And we watched them building thousands of miles of tunnels 984 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 1: all are round the entirety of Rajaba, twenty four meters 985 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,160 Speaker 1: down into the ground. Um, these these incredibly deep and 986 00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,200 Speaker 1: complicated tunnel systems where they were storing munitions and so 987 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,719 Speaker 1: that they could transfer populations and fighters all around the 988 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,440 Speaker 1: region without the Turks being able to bomb them, and 989 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,880 Speaker 1: a lot of that, a lot of those defenses they 990 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: had to give up because one of the things that 991 00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,080 Speaker 1: was really fucking shitty that Trump did is um, he 992 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,920 Speaker 1: got the curt here, he got the the SDF to 993 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,680 Speaker 1: agree to a uh A withdrawal from some sections of 994 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 1: their line with Turkey, UM as part of an agreement 995 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,000 Speaker 1: for like a safety zone, and they did with the 996 00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: understanding that the U S would be staying. And then 997 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,160 Speaker 1: once they'd given up their first front line defenses were like, as, 998 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,440 Speaker 1: wasn't that like a month ago or something like very recently. Yeah. Also, 999 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: I've been reading a lot that there are like approximately 1000 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,319 Speaker 1: fifty nuclear weapons that we had stored in the area 1001 00:52:55,400 --> 00:53:00,200 Speaker 1: and now Turkey just has them. Uh well we're oh no, no, no, 1002 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,799 Speaker 1: we I think it's more that we have bases in Turkey, yeah, 1003 00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,399 Speaker 1: basically everywhere. But yeah, well I just from a couple 1004 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,040 Speaker 1: of people of a couple of people a couple of 1005 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:15,319 Speaker 1: places describing them now as at Wan's hostages. Well that's 1006 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,120 Speaker 1: sort of okay, So this is one of the big 1007 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:18,840 Speaker 1: reasons why, you know, one of the one of the 1008 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,640 Speaker 1: one of the questions that um I found myself asking 1009 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,680 Speaker 1: a lot and asking with my colleagues over there, was like, 1010 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:28,759 Speaker 1: why the fund does Turkey get to get away with 1011 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,960 Speaker 1: all this ship? And the answer is the air base 1012 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,200 Speaker 1: and in Serlik is a huge part of it. Um. 1013 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,560 Speaker 1: Now that's an American air base, UM, and it is 1014 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,360 Speaker 1: critical to our operations in the Middle East. UM. Another 1015 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,319 Speaker 1: reason for this is that, of course Turkey is a 1016 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,400 Speaker 1: NATO nation and they're kind of holding down NATO's flank. 1017 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,439 Speaker 1: So it's uh, I'm not saying there's nothing that could 1018 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,319 Speaker 1: be done. I think there's a shipload that could be 1019 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,920 Speaker 1: done against air to one, but nothing is being done 1020 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: because everyone is scared of the implications and scared of 1021 00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,000 Speaker 1: upsetting the apple cart. Even more, well, I guess all 1022 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:07,680 Speaker 1: the EU Union members are now not going to sell 1023 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,839 Speaker 1: arms to Turkey or whatever, even though that's great. They've 1024 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,600 Speaker 1: got plenty of fucking guns. Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, 1025 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,000 Speaker 1: that's that's what's being done, right, all the all the 1026 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,600 Speaker 1: sanctions and stuff. It's like they want to do this, 1027 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 1: so you knew what they were going to do this. 1028 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,040 Speaker 1: Everybody knew that this was going to happen. I don't know. 1029 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,719 Speaker 1: Like it's frustrating because I think one possible. Everyone's worried 1030 00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: about the genocide. Obviously, I'm where like a lot of 1031 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,160 Speaker 1: people have died, um, and that's terrible. UM. But I 1032 00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,080 Speaker 1: worry even more because I think it's more likely. UM. 1033 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,959 Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think Turkey could possibly take 1034 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,239 Speaker 1: the whole region, or even a sizeable chunk of what 1035 00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,160 Speaker 1: they've claimed that they want to take. For a number 1036 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,160 Speaker 1: of reasons. Well, the Turks have a powerful airport force 1037 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,080 Speaker 1: and good artillery. UM. They don't have a very good military. 1038 00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,480 Speaker 1: It's well equipped, but it's not good fighters, um. Whereas 1039 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,560 Speaker 1: the STF is filled with like veteran guerillas who are 1040 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,520 Speaker 1: particularly expert at using a kind of weapon system called 1041 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,160 Speaker 1: an a g t m UM, a wire guided missile 1042 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:14,480 Speaker 1: UM which uh turns advanced tanks into fireworks. So I 1043 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,400 Speaker 1: especially when you consider like the fact that the Russians 1044 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,920 Speaker 1: and the Syrian Arab army and its air force are 1045 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,440 Speaker 1: moving in to support them, I don't think Turkey is 1046 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,960 Speaker 1: going to be able to actually take most of what 1047 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,960 Speaker 1: they want to take. Maybe I'll be wrong about that, 1048 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,520 Speaker 1: but I do think that the fact that the forces 1049 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:34,839 Speaker 1: of the Autonomous Region have had to call in back 1050 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,360 Speaker 1: up from that particular side means there's a good chance 1051 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,680 Speaker 1: it's the end of this revolutionary experiment and the start 1052 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,360 Speaker 1: of their absorption back into the most brutal dictatorship on 1053 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,879 Speaker 1: the planet. Um And I understand some of the people 1054 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,400 Speaker 1: I've talked to will say, like, look, assad's terrible, we 1055 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,360 Speaker 1: know that, but are to One's worse for us. You know, 1056 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: are too one may not have killed as many people, 1057 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,600 Speaker 1: but as occurred, he's worse for us. And so because 1058 00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,840 Speaker 1: we still are one of the dominant powers in this group, 1059 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,200 Speaker 1: that's who we're going to worry about the most. Um 1060 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,239 Speaker 1: And I can't say they're wrong. I've never had to 1061 00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:12,200 Speaker 1: make a decision like that. Um It breaks my heart 1062 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,240 Speaker 1: that the decision is being made because it's so fucking unnecessary. 1063 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,160 Speaker 1: It is really heartbreaking. This whole thing is just so 1064 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,560 Speaker 1: It's going to be the worst year ever for a 1065 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,760 Speaker 1: lot of vulnerable people in a region of the world 1066 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,400 Speaker 1: where things seem to be getting better as recently as 1067 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,360 Speaker 1: this August, but you know where it's not going to 1068 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,040 Speaker 1: be the worst year ever, Katie, And where tell me 1069 00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,319 Speaker 1: in the products and services that support this program? Once again, 1070 00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,120 Speaker 1: I should have seen that coming. It's gonna be the 1071 00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,040 Speaker 1: best year ever for them. It's going to be the yeah, Harry, 1072 00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:46,240 Speaker 1: because we are going to move a lot of whatever 1073 00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:52,040 Speaker 1: it is we sell products and products services. Yeah, yeah, 1074 00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,759 Speaker 1: some of those, uh, some of those I don't know. 1075 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,120 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't have a 1076 00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,440 Speaker 1: good joke. I was gonna I was gonna make a 1077 00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,000 Speaker 1: condom cooke or something, but then I couldn't think of 1078 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,440 Speaker 1: one in time, have come up with one. There it is, Cody. 1079 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:20,160 Speaker 1: There we go, all right, well together everything, Oh my gosh, 1080 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,720 Speaker 1: I've bought them all. He sure did snap them up. 1081 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,160 Speaker 1: I'm excited about having bought them. Yeah, I bet you, 1082 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,080 Speaker 1: I bet you are put in them excited. I received 1083 00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,240 Speaker 1: the I received the gifts. See how fast our products 1084 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,640 Speaker 1: and services ship? You know what? You know what I'm 1085 00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:40,840 Speaker 1: excited about most is when we inevitably get to the 1086 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,840 Speaker 1: point where the entire episode is just one long ad 1087 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,920 Speaker 1: plug but with no ads, we just never get there. 1088 00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:52,920 Speaker 1: We're trying to. We're constantly like, yeah, we're building to it. Yeah, 1089 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,160 Speaker 1: that's what the people want. The PIV is an ad 1090 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,280 Speaker 1: plug that never starts. Welcome to the ad transition, the 1091 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,840 Speaker 1: show that is constantly transitioning to an ad that never comes. 1092 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:09,920 Speaker 1: But first day, let's talk a little bit about the 1093 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:16,200 Speaker 1: Republicans here in America and what they're like. Republicans, the Republicans. Yeah, 1094 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,640 Speaker 1: I think I solved the political what was? What was yours? Cody? 1095 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:26,960 Speaker 1: I didn't want to steal your joke that the Republicans 1096 00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,440 Speaker 1: um they're pissed. Yeah, they are. It's the first time 1097 00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,920 Speaker 1: in recent memory where they've actually stood up kind of 1098 00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,520 Speaker 1: a little a little bit, a little bit to the president, 1099 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:47,080 Speaker 1: although still managing to not say his name. It's very 1100 00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,800 Speaker 1: fascinating standing up to what's happening, but not to him 1101 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,600 Speaker 1: specific Right, They're like, oh, there's a you know a 1102 00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,280 Speaker 1: lot of tweets of like, oh there's you know, this 1103 00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,800 Speaker 1: is cleansing. We've betrayed our allies a lot of the language, 1104 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,360 Speaker 1: and they never arrive at And it was that decision 1105 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,640 Speaker 1: was made by yeah, why is that happening? Likely by 1106 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:13,760 Speaker 1: somebody after a phone call without consulting anybody like margat 1107 00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,320 Speaker 1: Rubio and Lindsay Graham. Obviously come to mind specifically, but 1108 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,960 Speaker 1: just so many of like, Oh, I can't believe we've 1109 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,960 Speaker 1: done this? Who who did it? What are you talking about? 1110 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,920 Speaker 1: Why don't you just say his name? Just say his 1111 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,000 Speaker 1: name once? But they don't want to because they know 1112 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,840 Speaker 1: that he's gonna attack them, hit them on Twitter. They'll like, 1113 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,360 Speaker 1: he'll he'll drag He'll drag him on Twitter, so they 1114 00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,680 Speaker 1: don't they don't want to do it. But it is 1115 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,080 Speaker 1: that this is like the one time they're they're actually 1116 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,840 Speaker 1: not happy about something he's done and vocal about it, 1117 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,440 Speaker 1: because I can't imagine they're happy all the time. I mean, 1118 00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,120 Speaker 1: they're in a real dicey situation now what with impeachment 1119 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,000 Speaker 1: stuff going on obviously not related to this, but like, 1120 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,400 Speaker 1: well they're they're constantly because I think they're like several 1121 00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:03,600 Speaker 1: different factions of this where you have like the Republican reaction, um, 1122 01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:07,360 Speaker 1: but then you also have the conservative pundit reaction, and 1123 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,560 Speaker 1: then you have I guess what I would call like 1124 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:17,120 Speaker 1: the grifter proto fascist reaction, like like a Jack Possobic type, 1125 01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,880 Speaker 1: like Jack Possobic who has attacked the Kurds as supporting 1126 01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:25,080 Speaker 1: Antifa exactly mainly on the strength of literally two guys 1127 01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,360 Speaker 1: who like spray painted some some ANTIFA signs and Antiva 1128 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,080 Speaker 1: flag or something like that. And it's like, first of all, Jack, 1129 01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,000 Speaker 1: you know the fuh and that is isis right, Like 1130 01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:39,840 Speaker 1: that's the fa that they're they're anti and this is weird, 1131 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:44,640 Speaker 1: like like supporting isis to own the Libs mentality. Um. 1132 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:49,520 Speaker 1: But juxtaposed with before this happened, where he was very 1133 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,120 Speaker 1: supportive of the Kurds and has all these all these 1134 01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,160 Speaker 1: tweets mentioned like oh the Curds are so brave and 1135 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:58,040 Speaker 1: X and y, But as soon as dear Leader does 1136 01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:02,080 Speaker 1: this reversal, they switch gear. So fascinating. It's very fascinating 1137 01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,320 Speaker 1: how that works out every single time. It's fucking shocking 1138 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,560 Speaker 1: to me that the bravest reaction from the right wing 1139 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,280 Speaker 1: uh and most direct attack on the president as a 1140 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:16,280 Speaker 1: result of this came from Pat fucking Robertson. Oh man, 1141 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:21,640 Speaker 1: yeah he named the president. Yeah I didn't see that. Yeah, yeah, 1142 01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,880 Speaker 1: he said President Trump is has lost or is in 1143 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:30,040 Speaker 1: danger of losing the Mandate of Heaven. Was distracted by 1144 01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,400 Speaker 1: the Mandate of Heaven part. It's it's fucking wild because 1145 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,360 Speaker 1: Alex Jones seized on that as evidence that Pat Robertson 1146 01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:40,720 Speaker 1: is part of a Chinese communist conspiracy. So good, that 1147 01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:45,240 Speaker 1: is delicious. It's one little little bit of brightness. They 1148 01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:51,800 Speaker 1: can't help themselves. That's amazing. Yeah, it's incredible. Alex Jones triggered, Um, Yeah, 1149 01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:56,120 Speaker 1: side note, I saw Info Wars sticker in a random 1150 01:01:56,200 --> 01:02:02,720 Speaker 1: remote road in Maui yea greater mind. They're in Paradise 1151 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,200 Speaker 1: and there it was smacked up on a no no, 1152 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,360 Speaker 1: remember actually what's going on with this beautiful vista behind 1153 01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,000 Speaker 1: it was like, damn it, try to escape that. But 1154 01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,240 Speaker 1: it's just interesting, um that there is this it's this 1155 01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:18,120 Speaker 1: weird spectrum where, yeah, you got these Grift proto fascists, 1156 01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,000 Speaker 1: and then you've got the Republicans actually speaking out, and 1157 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,400 Speaker 1: then you have like a lot of the Fox News 1158 01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:27,760 Speaker 1: figures not really taking a stance other than these Republicans 1159 01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,920 Speaker 1: are caring too much about what's happening in Syria and 1160 01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,160 Speaker 1: on the Syrian border and not enough about our own 1161 01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,280 Speaker 1: border where we need the wall. Like they keep like 1162 01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,920 Speaker 1: bringing it back to this like America first, build the 1163 01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:44,000 Speaker 1: wall talking point, which is weird. Oh yeah, what did 1164 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:48,919 Speaker 1: the president tweet like today? Tweet something today, or maybe 1165 01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't today, but it was. I'm sure he tweeted 1166 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:55,880 Speaker 1: something today. He is he a tweeted? Did he do that? Uh? 1167 01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,560 Speaker 1: Some people want the United States to protect the seven 1168 01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:02,920 Speaker 1: thousand mile away border Syria, presided over by Bischl Assad, 1169 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,800 Speaker 1: our enemy. At the same time, Syria and whoever they 1170 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,320 Speaker 1: chose to help, want naturally to protect the Kurds. I 1171 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,920 Speaker 1: would much rather focus on our southern border, which a 1172 01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:16,120 Speaker 1: butt's either that's my typeo or his, and is part 1173 01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,120 Speaker 1: of the United States of America, and by the way, 1174 01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,880 Speaker 1: numbers are way down in the wall is being built. 1175 01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:26,240 Speaker 1: It is ironic about that statement. Is the chunk of 1176 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:30,320 Speaker 1: the Syrian border that touched Iraq and large pieces of 1177 01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,560 Speaker 1: Turkey was not run by a Bishar up until a 1178 01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:38,040 Speaker 1: couple of days ago, right as we just discussed. Yeah, yeah, 1179 01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,120 Speaker 1: I did not run into any Syrian Arab Army soldiers 1180 01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,840 Speaker 1: on the border, suggesting he doesn't know what he's talking about. 1181 01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,320 Speaker 1: I'm suggesting that because of his actions, Bashar al Assad 1182 01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,880 Speaker 1: now controls way more border than he did before. You're 1183 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,520 Speaker 1: asking that earlier he tweeted, Uh, he tried to tweet 1184 01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,560 Speaker 1: impeach the press, but he forgot the extra s, so 1185 01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,720 Speaker 1: it says impeached the press. That was good. That was 1186 01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,000 Speaker 1: that that that's that's one. A little bits of levity 1187 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:09,600 Speaker 1: we get careening flaming dumpster truck. Um. I think it's 1188 01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:15,480 Speaker 1: uh yeah, it's just this mentality of you've seen the 1189 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,400 Speaker 1: seventh seven thousand miles away thing. Uh, it's the earlier 1190 01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:23,200 Speaker 1: last week he was talking about how they didn't help 1191 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:29,160 Speaker 1: us in the Civil War. They didn't. That's that's fair, 1192 01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:34,440 Speaker 1: the right, they weren't. They weren't normandy with us. Um, 1193 01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,320 Speaker 1: even though like, yeah, if they were involved in World 1194 01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,920 Speaker 1: War two, guy, yeah there were there were tons of 1195 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,680 Speaker 1: Kurdish soldiers who fought belongs unbelievable, but like, yeah, just 1196 01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,080 Speaker 1: this idea of like, no, we're not going to do that, 1197 01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,200 Speaker 1: We're not going to do this. It's America first, We're 1198 01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,400 Speaker 1: not going to get involved. We can't do endless wars. 1199 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,920 Speaker 1: In the same breath as saying that, by the way, 1200 01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,480 Speaker 1: and get this, we're gonna sell all of our mercenary 1201 01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:02,320 Speaker 1: army to Saudi A and anyone else who wants to 1202 01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,480 Speaker 1: be the highest bidder. He's like proudly announcing this um 1203 01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:08,680 Speaker 1: while also saying we don't do we don't want to 1204 01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,680 Speaker 1: do wars anymore. It's wild. We don't want to do 1205 01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,320 Speaker 1: wars that aren't profit making in depth, right this and 1206 01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:17,280 Speaker 1: this is one of the things that's like frustrating to 1207 01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,600 Speaker 1: be about, like how how the Iraq War gets spun 1208 01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:21,600 Speaker 1: with like its focus on the oil and stuff. And 1209 01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,439 Speaker 1: it's like there was a profit motive in the Iraq War, 1210 01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,600 Speaker 1: but it was on behalf of a lot of private corporations. 1211 01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,960 Speaker 1: The US government didn't didn't get a lot of money 1212 01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,320 Speaker 1: out of that, Like we we fucking spent all of 1213 01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,720 Speaker 1: our money on that ship. Um. And that's the issue 1214 01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:38,840 Speaker 1: a guy like Trump has. Trump would actually be totally 1215 01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:42,000 Speaker 1: down with a war for oil because he specifically said 1216 01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:43,840 Speaker 1: he thinks that Irac should have to give us their oil, 1217 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,760 Speaker 1: Like that was literally what it was about, was just 1218 01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:48,880 Speaker 1: going in there and stealing the oil and leaving. He 1219 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:52,520 Speaker 1: would have been on board. Well, there's literally there's a there. 1220 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,040 Speaker 1: He used to have a vlog where he would vlog 1221 01:05:55,120 --> 01:06:00,360 Speaker 1: from his office, real beautiful stuff. They've since been deleted. 1222 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,440 Speaker 1: I think they got deleted right before the election. Oh 1223 01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,040 Speaker 1: I got them all. But there are a few videos 1224 01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,960 Speaker 1: where he talks about this and uh in regards to 1225 01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,520 Speaker 1: Libya specifically, where he says, we should go into Libya, 1226 01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:16,000 Speaker 1: we should help these people for humanitarian reasons, and then 1227 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,880 Speaker 1: when we're done, we go to them and then we say, 1228 01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,240 Speaker 1: give us half of your oil. So, like he's literally 1229 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,040 Speaker 1: said before, like years ago, just like, yeah, we're gonna 1230 01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:27,840 Speaker 1: do humanitarian things with our military if we can get 1231 01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:33,080 Speaker 1: paid in oil. He's like laid it out like that, right, 1232 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:38,760 Speaker 1: I like humanitarian things that require being paid with oil afterwards. 1233 01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:42,080 Speaker 1: But he and he's like maybe they'll give us the 1234 01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,880 Speaker 1: oil whatever. Um. But he's like literally laid out like 1235 01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,520 Speaker 1: this is how he thinks. He would absolutely of course 1236 01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:51,400 Speaker 1: do a war for oil. Um. And he just doesn't 1237 01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,800 Speaker 1: want to do a war for protecting four million people, right, 1238 01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,000 Speaker 1: But if they're willing to give us all the stuff 1239 01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,160 Speaker 1: when after we've saved them, then he would then then 1240 01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:05,880 Speaker 1: maybe he would. Maybe he definitely would until their stuff 1241 01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,080 Speaker 1: runs out then Yeah. So just like all the all 1242 01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,000 Speaker 1: the surprise, uh that you see from all these people, 1243 01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,120 Speaker 1: even like Trump fans who are like I can't believe 1244 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,960 Speaker 1: he's doing this this. Yeah, he's talked about this for years, um. 1245 01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:23,160 Speaker 1: And like obviously the Republicans are craven ghouls who know better, 1246 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,560 Speaker 1: and they're just playing the game of being surprised by 1247 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,880 Speaker 1: his actions. So what is it that we are doing. 1248 01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:29,800 Speaker 1: We've been out there because we all know when this 1249 01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,840 Speaker 1: all started. A week ago, a week and a half ago, 1250 01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:39,360 Speaker 1: he sent that Banana's tweet about his great and unmatched wisdom, 1251 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:43,320 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. If they do anything that I disagree with, 1252 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:49,960 Speaker 1: I will be like he has before, so many questions 1253 01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:54,240 Speaker 1: about that. But has he decimated their economy? Have they 1254 01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:57,880 Speaker 1: done something that in his mind has crossed a line 1255 01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,800 Speaker 1: so that he would be I mean, there's some pretty 1256 01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,360 Speaker 1: shocking videos coming out of it, are I mean, did 1257 01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:08,440 Speaker 1: you see I'm sure you did. Sure if uncle will 1258 01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,760 Speaker 1: get very upset and talk to her out about it. Yeah. 1259 01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,640 Speaker 1: Those those um, those mercenaries gunning down a bunch of 1260 01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,160 Speaker 1: medical workers. Yeah yeah, they pulled out a bunch of 1261 01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:20,840 Speaker 1: people from the cars and one of them was a 1262 01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:29,479 Speaker 1: female Kurdish politician and they murdered them. Made videos. Yeah. Anyway, Um, 1263 01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:32,920 Speaker 1: so we we've got some sanctions coming in, right. I 1264 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,400 Speaker 1: will whisper that to those corpses. I'm sure they'll be 1265 01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:40,880 Speaker 1: happy they're being sanctioned. Well, the one thing like when 1266 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,240 Speaker 1: regimes are uh doing a genocide that they've been wanting 1267 01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,760 Speaker 1: to do for a long time, thing, the thing that 1268 01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:53,000 Speaker 1: stops them is steel tariffs. That makes them, that gives them. 1269 01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,280 Speaker 1: Oh no, it's just like a weird like approach where 1270 01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,120 Speaker 1: you you basically give them the green light to do 1271 01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,479 Speaker 1: this thing, and then you're like, it'll cost you little more, 1272 01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,360 Speaker 1: the price tag up a little more. But like that's 1273 01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:07,680 Speaker 1: not that stop you know, that's guys, scraper, it's gore expensive. 1274 01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,080 Speaker 1: You still get to do the genocide, but it's gonna 1275 01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:15,120 Speaker 1: be price here. And like some of the sanctions are 1276 01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:20,120 Speaker 1: about the leadership specifically because normally, like normally sanctions are 1277 01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:24,000 Speaker 1: like they hurt the people of the nation and not 1278 01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,479 Speaker 1: the people who were in charge of the nation. No, 1279 01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,400 Speaker 1: but so they're they're targeting air to one and some 1280 01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:36,960 Speaker 1: of his folks a little bit. But it's just like yeah, 1281 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,759 Speaker 1: you're you're letting them do it. And then you're like, well, 1282 01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,559 Speaker 1: but well, and this is a part of a lot 1283 01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,720 Speaker 1: of this all boils down to, like we've been very 1284 01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:51,120 Speaker 1: harsh on Trump um justifiably so, because he took a 1285 01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:56,320 Speaker 1: situation that was not great but I had some hope 1286 01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,439 Speaker 1: in it and turned it into one that's just a 1287 01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,200 Speaker 1: complete cluster fuck. But the reason all of this got 1288 01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:07,639 Speaker 1: this bad, um was years of liberal politicians who did 1289 01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:11,600 Speaker 1: not want to get involved in something complicated because, for 1290 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:13,479 Speaker 1: among other things, they didn't think they could sell it 1291 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,000 Speaker 1: to the American people. You can trace a lot of 1292 01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:20,600 Speaker 1: us back to Libya. Um, a lot of people, and uh, 1293 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:26,120 Speaker 1: it's so complicated. So with Libya, the Obama administration attempted 1294 01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:31,120 Speaker 1: to do something very humanitarian and brave and decent and necessary, 1295 01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:32,920 Speaker 1: and they succeeded. And if you look at the amount 1296 01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:34,720 Speaker 1: of people who have died fighting in Libya since two 1297 01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,240 Speaker 1: thousand elevens about fifty or so. Compared that to the 1298 01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,280 Speaker 1: more than half a million you've died fighting the Syrians 1299 01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,160 Speaker 1: civil war, even if you are quite for like the 1300 01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,920 Speaker 1: population differences, A lot less people have died in Libya 1301 01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,439 Speaker 1: just because we stopped Kadapi from bombing the ship out 1302 01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,160 Speaker 1: of Benghazi. Um. But you know the four people, the 1303 01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,519 Speaker 1: four Americans who died in Benghazi that has been was 1304 01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:56,400 Speaker 1: turned to a multiple years long political issue to try 1305 01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:59,360 Speaker 1: to kill Hillary Clinton. And the fact that things didn't 1306 01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:01,639 Speaker 1: work out perfically in Libya, and it didn't They didn't 1307 01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:03,519 Speaker 1: instantly go like, all right, I guess we're a functioning 1308 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:09,240 Speaker 1: democracy like slaves now. Well, but they were before. That's 1309 01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:11,360 Speaker 1: another one of like you fucking like there's plenty evidence 1310 01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,559 Speaker 1: of it under Condafi in the nineties, um and in 1311 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,040 Speaker 1: fact that it peaked in the mid nineties. But like this, 1312 01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:21,280 Speaker 1: it's very people who are misinformed and who and it's 1313 01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:23,000 Speaker 1: a mix of sides because there's a lot of people 1314 01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:24,880 Speaker 1: on the left who will like to cry Libya as 1315 01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,200 Speaker 1: this like tragedy because we got rid of Kadafi, a 1316 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:28,599 Speaker 1: man who kept at stable and it's like, you don't 1317 01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,320 Speaker 1: know shit about Kadafi. He killed like five thousand people 1318 01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,640 Speaker 1: in a stadium one time, just sucking because he's a 1319 01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,920 Speaker 1: piece of shit, Like you don't fucking know what you're 1320 01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,080 Speaker 1: talking about. You don't know anything about the region. You 1321 01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:41,400 Speaker 1: read one bullshit lefty blog that claimed Kadafi was a socialist, 1322 01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:43,760 Speaker 1: and so you think that it was US imperialism, like 1323 01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:46,840 Speaker 1: and so because of this, because you've got this mix 1324 01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,639 Speaker 1: of like assholes on the right who just won't let 1325 01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:53,000 Speaker 1: a democratic president have done anything good. If they do 1326 01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,120 Speaker 1: something good, you've got to attack them for it, and 1327 01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,120 Speaker 1: then that thing, humanitarian intervention, becomes terrible. And then you 1328 01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,400 Speaker 1: have other people who are well, if the US did it, 1329 01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,639 Speaker 1: it has to be bad because we're always evil. So 1330 01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:06,920 Speaker 1: I have to find reasons why this is bad. And 1331 01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,080 Speaker 1: so that one of the things that results in because 1332 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:13,000 Speaker 1: guys like Barack Obama and most of his his ideological 1333 01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:18,720 Speaker 1: sympaticos and kind of the center left are fundamentally not brave. Um, 1334 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,320 Speaker 1: so they just stopped doing ships. So when air to 1335 01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:23,960 Speaker 1: one makes a massive power grab in Turkey and starts 1336 01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,559 Speaker 1: imprisoning his enemies after a very suspicious coup, nobody does 1337 01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,400 Speaker 1: anything about this happening in a NATO nation. So when 1338 01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:33,759 Speaker 1: Bashar al Assad starts firing chemical weapons on his own people, 1339 01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:38,120 Speaker 1: nobody grounds his fucking planes. So when Russia invades Ukraine, 1340 01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:41,280 Speaker 1: nobody does anything but slaps a couple of sanctions on them, 1341 01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:44,799 Speaker 1: because they're scared about what might happen if they actually 1342 01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:47,960 Speaker 1: take any kind of effective stances. And because people keep 1343 01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:52,120 Speaker 1: not doing anything, the situation keeps getting worse. The authoritarians 1344 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,960 Speaker 1: keep grabbing more, and the liberty of people's around the 1345 01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,479 Speaker 1: globe is squeezed and squeezed and choked a little bit 1346 01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,640 Speaker 1: more every day. And there's a lot of individual authoritarian 1347 01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,479 Speaker 1: assholes like President Trump you can blame for aspects of it, 1348 01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,120 Speaker 1: but the fundamental reason that was allowed to happen is 1349 01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:12,960 Speaker 1: a failure of courage from the educated liberal sections of 1350 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:17,000 Speaker 1: our society who just didn't have the fucking gorm to 1351 01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,360 Speaker 1: do what needed to be done because it was scary. 1352 01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:23,920 Speaker 1: Well yeah, well said, never heard the word gorn before, 1353 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,479 Speaker 1: but I picked it up. That's a good one. Residual 1354 01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:30,200 Speaker 1: effects of like Iraq, where you know, we know that 1355 01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:35,720 Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely a bunch of lies got us into a disaster. 1356 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,280 Speaker 1: And it's there's a little i mean afraid of the 1357 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:42,080 Speaker 1: backlash year of people getting involved, of us getting involved 1358 01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:45,920 Speaker 1: in situations and not knowing how it's going to play out. 1359 01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:50,280 Speaker 1: But there's this also and know what's our responsibility? Yeah, 1360 01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:54,680 Speaker 1: knowing just the relationship of of America and war in 1361 01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,200 Speaker 1: the middle military industrial complex and people that make money 1362 01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:02,160 Speaker 1: from it. So intentions are always going to be questioned. Yeah, 1363 01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,800 Speaker 1: and and you know, the fucking what what did? The 1364 01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:07,320 Speaker 1: what did a lot of like the liberal mainstay politicians 1365 01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:09,559 Speaker 1: who are still active and we're active in two thousands 1366 01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:13,639 Speaker 1: three do. When the Iraq War came around, they voted 1367 01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:18,320 Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, then some of them wished they hadn't 1368 01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:24,280 Speaker 1: a few years later, a few few years later. Um, yeah, 1369 01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:33,599 Speaker 1: so boomo universal bill fixed it. Um, I don't know. 1370 01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:39,439 Speaker 1: By bolt cutters, um, boat cutters buy food and stuff 1371 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,280 Speaker 1: by food and stuff by water, because we have to 1372 01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:45,320 Speaker 1: buy water. We have to buy water for water. Yeah, 1373 01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:49,400 Speaker 1: you gotta pay money for water, you know, and buy 1374 01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:53,240 Speaker 1: the products and services that's you know, like the one 1375 01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:57,040 Speaker 1: we look for in the in the universe. Uh, to 1376 01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:01,439 Speaker 1: look for life. What if we charge everybody for it? 1377 01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:02,960 Speaker 1: Sounds like I can make a lot of money. Yeah, 1378 01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,040 Speaker 1: it does. And you know that sounds like a flawless situation, 1379 01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:10,880 Speaker 1: good for people. But if we package huge amounts of 1380 01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:14,719 Speaker 1: that water in tiny bottles made out of a substance 1381 01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,920 Speaker 1: that kills the ocean. Oh, I love that you've taken. 1382 01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:21,400 Speaker 1: That's a brilliant idea, and you've made it even better. 1383 01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:26,439 Speaker 1: This is how we do it. Spitballen ideas well. This 1384 01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:28,519 Speaker 1: has been the last episode of the worst year ever. 1385 01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:34,240 Speaker 1: We're off to make billions of dollars the year every year. 1386 01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:40,479 Speaker 1: Republican all the time. Yeah, my opinion on the capital 1387 01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:45,639 Speaker 1: gains checks tax has changed instantly. You know, I didn't 1388 01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:48,800 Speaker 1: see it before, but now I do. I'm gonna go 1389 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:52,160 Speaker 1: hang out with Georgia W. Bush and a baseball. Yeah 1390 01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:55,599 Speaker 1: that sounds fun. He is a good guy, he's sweet. 1391 01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:02,000 Speaker 1: He paints now before you know, murder, but now painting? 1392 01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:08,559 Speaker 1: What pain? He pay change coding? Okay, Um, this has 1393 01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:11,760 Speaker 1: been really fascinating. I'm really glad that we did this. Yeah, 1394 01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:15,439 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing, Robert. Yeah, yeah, thanks for listening, 1395 01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, thank all of you for listening. Yeah, guys, 1396 01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:22,720 Speaker 1: thank you so much. We're welcome. Mm hmm. Well that's 1397 01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:24,400 Speaker 1: going to do it for all of us here at 1398 01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:27,080 Speaker 1: the worst year ever until next week when we talk 1399 01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:31,679 Speaker 1: about probably Andrew Yang probably will be more upbeat. That's 1400 01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,800 Speaker 1: actually episode we recorded before this one. So I'm very 1401 01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:37,479 Speaker 1: bummed out in it because my friends were getting bombed. 1402 01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:41,719 Speaker 1: Now you've got context when you hear it. We report 1403 01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:44,719 Speaker 1: that last week, we pushed it for next week. It's fine, 1404 01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:48,200 Speaker 1: it'll keep it's fine, it'll keep you not Andrew Yang 1405 01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:54,840 Speaker 1: ain't going nowhere. We got a debate tonight or like 1406 01:16:54,960 --> 01:17:00,479 Speaker 1: the butt all right, it is, but I'm now we've 1407 01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:04,479 Speaker 1: gotten our political commentary in good all right, guys, thanks 1408 01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:10,120 Speaker 1: for listening. Thanks Robert again, and I guess thanks Cody, Oh, 1409 01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:13,000 Speaker 1: you're welcome. I guess see you next week. And you 1410 01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:17,400 Speaker 1: know who else we should thank the products and Products. 1411 01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:20,000 Speaker 1: I should have known that, I should have seen where 1412 01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,559 Speaker 1: you were going with that. Thanks Products and Services. Thanks 1413 01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:38,040 Speaker 1: Products and Services Ever. Everything I Tried, Worst Year Ever 1414 01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,760 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 1415 01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,040 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 1416 01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:46,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.