Speaker 1: What's up this lip service? I'm Angela Yee, I'm g
Speaker 1: g McGuire, I'm Stephanie Santiago, I'm Laura Maura. Oh we
Speaker 1: have Gia Casey. This is her first time on the service.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I specifically told Envy to
Speaker 1: stay home because I wanted to just have ge On
Speaker 1: without him, because you know, we make fun of him
Speaker 1: at work all the time about different things that have
Speaker 1: happened to him that you know, vibrate dildo situation and
Speaker 1: all of that I've heard. But you guys have a
Speaker 1: book out now, Real Life, Real Love, which is, by
Speaker 1: the way, an amazing read. I'm I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: Early on, I cried, I did, because you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sensitive when I read certain things. But I think I
Speaker 1: know you guys have told this story before about your
Speaker 1: face getting slice and you getting into where those girls
Speaker 1: jumped you, but reading it like in real time, and
Speaker 1: how Envy was supposed to pick you up but he
Speaker 1: was working, and then you know that part was like
Speaker 1: I just can't even imagine something like that happening. But
Speaker 1: then and he said, you know, after that, things were
Speaker 1: never they saying. But what I love is you said
Speaker 1: you were stronger after that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Growing up in
Speaker 1: Queen's Brooklyn originally from Brooklyn and then I moved to
Speaker 1: Queens when I was fourteen, there was just a lot
Speaker 1: of things that I felt kept replaying throughout my life. Um.
Speaker 1: And one of those things was people's people feeling as
Speaker 1: though they know who you are before they get to
Speaker 1: know who you are, they see you as one thing,
Speaker 1: just based on your pearance, and um, for me, it
Speaker 1: was people assuming that I was stuck up or bougie
Speaker 1: or conceited, and I'm the exact opposite. People would be like,
Speaker 1: you're actually nice. Well, yeah, I am nice, but I'm
Speaker 1: a tomboy. Like It's just I went through that my
Speaker 1: whole life. And I've gotten into fights my entire life, um,
Speaker 1: ever since I was Um, I think onto my first
Speaker 1: fight when I was maybe twelve, and constantly you know,
Speaker 1: never a fight that you initiated, Oh god, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: never a fight that I initiated. But I became very
Speaker 1: tough skinned, very thick skinned because of misconceptions and whatnot.
Speaker 1: And um, and it also encouraged me to be strong
Speaker 1: because I felt like I was always defending myself. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I also grew up
Speaker 1: with that, you know, like I didn't want people to
Speaker 1: feel as that they could take advantage of me or
Speaker 1: play me, do you know what I mean? So it's like, okay, yes,
Speaker 1: you go extra the other way, and that's why. And
Speaker 1: I could totally really you know, been growing up in
Speaker 1: the city and the pretty girls, we always know how
Speaker 1: to fight, Like don't I have a sleep on the
Speaker 1: pretty girls from New York Because we would look at
Speaker 1: certain girls and they'd be like, Oh, she's looking at
Speaker 1: us wrong, she's all stuck up, and we will I
Speaker 1: will always end up in a fight because I have
Speaker 1: I looked at somebody up and down, or because somebody's
Speaker 1: boyfriend was being too friendly to me. Like being a
Speaker 1: pretty girl you have to be like on a high
Speaker 1: defense in New York City. Yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just I got into a fight one time when
Speaker 1: I was a freshman in high school. No, no, actually
Speaker 1: I was a sophomore in high school and I got
Speaker 1: on the bus and this girl just looked at me
Speaker 1: and then snuffed me in the face. I never met
Speaker 1: this girl before, I never saw her. We had no
Speaker 1: affiliation or anything. We got into a fight on the bus.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, just the thing, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: And I understood what it was at the time, and
Speaker 1: that was just, you know, just my life. That's perceptive
Speaker 1: that you understood what it was. It's hard not to
Speaker 1: because it's more their issue than you're. You know, it's
Speaker 1: all there issue with themselves. But the first thing, if
Speaker 1: you know, you get into a situation with somebody, the
Speaker 1: first thing is, oh, this light skin bitch or you know,
Speaker 1: this piss colored bitch or bleach casper, you know, just
Speaker 1: the joke. So it's it's not lost on you what's
Speaker 1: actually going on. You know, why there's issues and whatnot.
Speaker 1: And I'm not even saying that, you know, it's jealousy,
Speaker 1: like I'm not putting those things on you know, the
Speaker 1: people that you have have offended me. I'm just saying that
Speaker 1: our society, especially at that time, was just um divisive.
Speaker 1: It was very it was very divisive, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, and that divisiveness was encouraged. So it was
Speaker 1: a whole societal issue within our culture and part of it.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest, even from the other side
Speaker 1: of it, and I know it's going to sound strange
Speaker 1: for me. To say, but I even somewhat understand, just
Speaker 1: the same way that black people understand white privilege. As
Speaker 1: a light skinned woman, I understood light skin privilege and
Speaker 1: it does exist. Yeah, because if you see other music
Speaker 1: videos or even guys saying I only like yellow bones,
Speaker 1: only date light skan girl, we used to hear that
Speaker 1: a lot. You know, are people being like I like
Speaker 1: mixed girls, the term good here, all of the exotic
Speaker 1: and all of that, and so yes, it's a fucked
Speaker 1: up way for exact people to think. And someone even
Speaker 1: put myself in the position of being like a darker
Speaker 1: complexed girl at the time and trying to imagine how
Speaker 1: that would feel. So not to give permission to it
Speaker 1: or to say that it's okay, but the very least
Speaker 1: I understood. And that's kind of how I try to
Speaker 1: go through life. I don't try to just look at
Speaker 1: things through my perspective. I try to look at things
Speaker 1: through everyone involved perspective. Yeah, I mean, okay, let's talk
Speaker 1: about how envy even got you, because I say Rashwan
Speaker 1: was back then, Yes, actually was jan that's right. But
Speaker 1: I guess when you think about a DJ, envy is
Speaker 1: also not like the connotation but how he even got
Speaker 1: you is a really funny story. Right first he was
Speaker 1: kind of in the friend zone, but then you were
Speaker 1: dating somebody else and he called on three ways? So
Speaker 1: can you tell this what he did? Because this is
Speaker 1: some crazy shit. So I had moved from Brooklyn to Queens,
Speaker 1: sorry to hear that night. Um, and then I transferred
Speaker 1: into a Shawn's school and I was a new girl
Speaker 1: in school, so I had options, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? And I was It's just the nature of it, right,
Speaker 1: So I was, you know, talking to different people, and
Speaker 1: I was talking to this kid from christ the kid,
Speaker 1: So I went to St. Francis, perhaps Shan and the
Speaker 1: king was big and bast your life might have been
Speaker 1: way didn't first book? You know, I never looked him up,
Speaker 1: but he was on the swim team and we were talking.
Speaker 1: And when Rashawn first kicked it to me, not to
Speaker 1: say that I wasn't interested, but I just had, you know,
Speaker 1: I had options, and I was trying to figure out
Speaker 1: which way you want to He likes to tell this story.
Speaker 1: I wish you were here to tell it. I used
Speaker 1: to run I used to run track, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: we would wear these like skimpy little one piece track
Speaker 1: outfits and one short where I would, yes, like a
Speaker 1: little exactly little short short's little you know. No, he
Speaker 1: did did wear him and I don't know, you know Mono, right,
Speaker 1: say Mono. So they've been friends longer than I've even
Speaker 1: known Rashan. Rashan I've been together for twenty seven years,
Speaker 1: so he's known Mono about thirty years. I remember they're
Speaker 1: falling out girl, that's a whole Yes. Um. We wore
Speaker 1: like partial uniforms, so it's kind of like a dress code,
Speaker 1: but they gave you what pieces you could wear, so
Speaker 1: they would wear the slack pant, their little slack pants.
Speaker 1: Rashan will were like a pastel pink polo button down
Speaker 1: with the pink scrunch socks, and Randy would come in
Speaker 1: on the same days. He was a plan, right, Randy
Speaker 1: were coming on the same day with the lavender past
Speaker 1: though button down scrunch shocks, and at the time it
Speaker 1: was very like swaggy, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: he did catch my attention and I did be like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's cute friend. At that point, you know, I think
Speaker 1: I thought he's I liked him, but he kept trying
Speaker 1: to give me a telephone number, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh yea, yeah, I'm gonna call you. I'm gonna call you.
Speaker 1: And then he would come to school and I day, like,
Speaker 1: you didn't call and I'm like, he got caught up,
Speaker 1: you know whatever. He's like in case you lost it again.
Speaker 1: And that's went on for some time, and then finally
Speaker 1: he was like, well, can I have your telephone number?
Speaker 1: I'll call you since you're like so big, So I
Speaker 1: gave him my number and then I finally picked up.
Speaker 1: And then after speaking to him for about like a
Speaker 1: week and two weeks, I was like, Wow, there's really
Speaker 1: there's really something to this kid. Like he's so charming
Speaker 1: and charismatic, and he was very invested, do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It wasn't just like chit chat and
Speaker 1: like he was like trying to make me his wife.
Speaker 1: After like two weeks, you know, but I still had
Speaker 1: this other kid on the side. I didn't tell about
Speaker 1: really what Sean was on the side at that point
Speaker 1: because well, this is true, this is true, Sean was
Speaker 1: actually my side. Um. So Shan found out and he
Speaker 1: found out who the kid was, got his number, called him,
Speaker 1: and then called me on three way and was like, yes, So, um,
Speaker 1: I heard you talking to some and so and I
Speaker 1: was like yeah. He was like, well, he's on the phone.
Speaker 1: Why I agree to this. It's like he's on the phone.
Speaker 1: So he was like, so right here and now I'm
Speaker 1: gonna need you to choose. I'm gonna needs you to pick.
Speaker 1: It's either me. And he was like, because I ain't
Speaker 1: share the ultimatum. Yeah, Netflix, Yes. I was like I
Speaker 1: got all hot and bothered, like I choose you. Yes.
Speaker 1: Then I was like sorry, Jonathan. Yeah. But because it
Speaker 1: was very it was very hard, it was manly, it
Speaker 1: was assertive. That's not the type of thing you would
Speaker 1: have expected from a sixteen year old, you know. And
Speaker 1: he's never faltered on that, Like, that's one thing that
Speaker 1: he has been. He's been invested literally since day one.
Speaker 1: So I like that about him. But I like a
Speaker 1: man's man, you know, Like I like someone that's very manly.
Speaker 1: And I know when the show, you guys joke and play,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's a certain persona associated with that,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. He can't change a tire,
Speaker 1: but no, he can't. He can't put a hole in
Speaker 1: the wall to hang a picture, but like you know,
Speaker 1: and you know that's what he would say. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I'm like all right, you know, so so I like
Speaker 1: that about him, you know. Um, and then we started
Speaker 1: dating and like we fell in love with each other
Speaker 1: like quick immediately, it had. So let me ask you this,
Speaker 1: and the time that he was courting you because you
Speaker 1: were keeping your options open for you the only person
Speaker 1: he was talking to then, or were they like other
Speaker 1: girls that he was entertaining. I'm just curious. It was
Speaker 1: just it was just tunnel vision. Yeah, No, it was
Speaker 1: tunnel vision. It was just me, and he made sure
Speaker 1: that it was just him, so it was yeah, we
Speaker 1: were exclusive immediately. Did your parents like him right away? Well,
Speaker 1: the truth is my father liked him because Rashawn always
Speaker 1: came across as very very protective, well protective you know. Um.
Speaker 1: My mother liked him, but my mother thought that he
Speaker 1: was too immature for me. So one day I come downstairs,
Speaker 1: she's like, come in my room, going there, and she's like,
Speaker 1: m do you think that maybe he might be a
Speaker 1: little image too immature for you? And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: why would you say that. She's like, oh, he just
Speaker 1: walks into the house and it's like I'm Mrs Grante
Speaker 1: Grant and then he just goes upstairs, right, He doesn't
Speaker 1: engage in conversation upstairs. Oh yeah, and my parents were
Speaker 1: very cool. I was gonna say, because I wasn't allowed
Speaker 1: to have boys in my room when I was in
Speaker 1: high school. I had such a dope relationship with my
Speaker 1: mother and my father that they knew that if I
Speaker 1: allowed a boy into my room that nothing was going
Speaker 1: to happen. Did you, well, you're allowed to have boys
Speaker 1: in your room. I was having slumber parties in high school.
Speaker 1: I was having some of her, but now a boy
Speaker 1: like I had coed sumber I had a co ed
Speaker 1: slumber party when and I'm talking about like from temp
Speaker 1: grade all the way through. So do you allow your
Speaker 1: kids like this is your daughters or sons, like can
Speaker 1: they have I would? I would at them only because
Speaker 1: I raised my children the way I was raised. Is
Speaker 1: there a certain age where you're like it's okay or
Speaker 1: just in general? Well, I just think it's inappropriate before
Speaker 1: you know, like maybe like seventeen um. I would trust
Speaker 1: my kids from the yet. But I would say, like
Speaker 1: seventeen um, if a parent that of an invitee allows
Speaker 1: their child to come and sleep over. It's okay with
Speaker 1: me as long as you Yeah, I'm both of my kids.
Speaker 1: I would because I was raised in a very open
Speaker 1: conversation communication type of households, so where there was so
Speaker 1: much trust, and my parents poured so much into me,
Speaker 1: and they taught me right from wrong and morals and
Speaker 1: you know, all of these things. And they always wanted
Speaker 1: me to live my best life. They always wanted me
Speaker 1: to have fun. They always encouraged me to be the
Speaker 1: best at anything that I attempted to do. They believed
Speaker 1: in me. So I would never do anything to dishonor them.
Speaker 1: And the proof is in the pudding. You know. I
Speaker 1: was of Shawn took my virginity like I was a virgin.
Speaker 1: I did you know what he was doing? Um, I
Speaker 1: mean we both, we both, I don't have to think
Speaker 1: about it. Like we both were in this in the
Speaker 1: same space regarding that. So I think we were because
Speaker 1: he was kind of virgin ish. Yeah, Like we were
Speaker 1: both extremely inexperience in experience. You guys were learning together.
Speaker 1: So we were learning together to that was so fast
Speaker 1: because he probably was so excited like Atla always came.
Speaker 1: He not like he was tender, and he took his
Speaker 1: time and he was considerate, he was thoughtful. He made
Speaker 1: a whole situation out of it. He asked my permission.
Speaker 1: He did have a mixed tape. I remember. That was hilarious.
Speaker 1: It was like the whole It was at the Marriott
Speaker 1: Marquis in Times Square. Yes, first experiencing. Yes, here's a
Speaker 1: horror stories. I had a nice one, you know, like
Speaker 1: you said, I had a guy who was really considerate
Speaker 1: and chancel and he made sure everything was really moist.
Speaker 1: He ate it before he tried anything. It was really nice,
Speaker 1: you know, and slow, and I felt really loved. And
Speaker 1: you know, some girls have such horrible stories about their
Speaker 1: first My face time is terrible. I hated. But we
Speaker 1: waited a year. We had sex on our one year anniversary.
Speaker 1: So it was planned, like this is the day we're
Speaker 1: gonna do it in the hotel. Didn't decide, but I
Speaker 1: knew that I would not before one year, you know,
Speaker 1: like I had to be in love and I had
Speaker 1: to be ready, you know, I was sixteen. I had
Speaker 1: to be ready. Watch corner like how did you learn?
Speaker 1: How did you learn? Now? But what we'll talk about
Speaker 1: that in a second. To that did you have to
Speaker 1: ask anybody, like what am I supposed to do? Or
Speaker 1: you just went in like I just went in, like
Speaker 1: we're two young kids, like we'll figure that. It's not
Speaker 1: too it's not that hard and so long, and like
Speaker 1: you said, you were already in love. So the passion
Speaker 1: was there, the chemistry was there, and even though y'all
Speaker 1: didn't know really what I was doing, I'm sure y'all
Speaker 1: like we figured it out out. No, yes, okay, did
Speaker 1: you come? No? Because you didn't, Okay I did. My
Speaker 1: first boyfriend, I didn't come like I didn't. What did
Speaker 1: you think? I didn't. Actually, my son from my first
Speaker 1: that's my one year old, and the pot dickens, like
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I thought women can only come from
Speaker 1: I didn't know that why he was pet so I
Speaker 1: never knew how to while until you know, that's a
Speaker 1: whole conversation. And it's crazy because he didn't even teach
Speaker 1: me that the whole time I was with him. I
Speaker 1: didn't know. You just had no ideas. And in my
Speaker 1: first sex sexual ID, I did because I had an
Speaker 1: world before I actually you know had Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: was coming from that before I knew what it was.
Speaker 1: But I didn't come from into course the first time
Speaker 1: I had sex. No, not not all right. I also
Speaker 1: think if you're both kind of inexperienced, he doesn't know
Speaker 1: how to make you come, of course, right, course, of
Speaker 1: course not. No. I was sixteen, he was seventeen, and
Speaker 1: that's perfect. Like I said, like I was a virgin.
Speaker 1: He was virgin ish. You know, he had attempted with
Speaker 1: someone his first girlfriend before, but just never finished. He
Speaker 1: told you that like early Okay, oh yeah, yeah, I knew,
Speaker 1: I knew, I knew what the girl was like, you know,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that was virgin and that was his
Speaker 1: first girlfriend, you know, but he didn't see it all
Speaker 1: the way through. I've never heard about his first girlfriend.
Speaker 1: So you guys all went to school together. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: she was just a girl from his neighborhood. Okay, so
Speaker 1: was he still cool with her like while he No,
Speaker 1: he never spoke to her again. I y, yeah, that
Speaker 1: was it. I want to see pictures of you guys
Speaker 1: in high school. You guys would Probaba came to work
Speaker 1: one day devastated because he said that you had told
Speaker 1: him that you weren't you were faking orgasms, And we
Speaker 1: actually got to you a present. Okay, here you go,
Speaker 1: it's a T shirt. No fake orgasm both. Luckily I
Speaker 1: haven't had to fake an orgasm about married twenty one
Speaker 1: years and about at least maybe eleven years. What made
Speaker 1: you talent that years? Truthfully? Because we we're having sex
Speaker 1: for years and I was faking like all of my orgasms,
Speaker 1: all all of the through intercourse, okay, and you were
Speaker 1: like everything what it was a whole performance that it
Speaker 1: was because it was it because you guys were going
Speaker 1: through things around that time in your relationship and you
Speaker 1: were not mentally No, that's not the reason why we
Speaker 1: talk about it in great detail in the book from
Speaker 1: my perspective and from his perspective. But it was my fault.
Speaker 1: It wasn't his fault. You know, as women, we are
Speaker 1: well known as girls were raised to think that women
Speaker 1: are like playthings for men. You know, we are here
Speaker 1: for the pleasing for the men, and we're taught that subconsciously.
Speaker 1: When you think about it, billboards, beautiful women advertising everything,
Speaker 1: sexy cars with a sexy woman draped across the hood.
Speaker 1: Even now, Instagram just everything is built on the back
Speaker 1: of sex and sexuality and anything relating to sex and
Speaker 1: We're kind of programmed that way when you think about it. Um,
Speaker 1: So when I started having sex, I was acting on
Speaker 1: that program. You know, I'm thinking that I yes, and
Speaker 1: and it also felt good. You know when you when
Speaker 1: you take a test and you get are like yes,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So when I'm engaging in
Speaker 1: intimate situations with my boyfriend and my husband and I'm
Speaker 1: pleasing him like, it feels like yes. And you all know,
Speaker 1: the more you perform, the more excited they get, the
Speaker 1: more they think that they're putting in, the better the
Speaker 1: whole experience is. But for the fact that there's a
Speaker 1: big orgasm for you at the end. But you're performing,
Speaker 1: you're thinking about, Okay, how do I look, How does
Speaker 1: my face look? How am I moving in life? Yes?
Speaker 1: And then at the end I would feel like I
Speaker 1: could just you know, reach over, grab a cigarette of life,
Speaker 1: you know, like it felt like that. So it was
Speaker 1: partially from my ego and it was also to enhance
Speaker 1: his ego. And then I was going down a rabbit hole,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Because once I started
Speaker 1: it right, I can't go back and undo it. Did Okay,
Speaker 1: enough is enough? Let me let him know what's going on? Like,
Speaker 1: what was the turning point for you to be like,
Speaker 1: let me stop this and let him know it's really
Speaker 1: not So we had gotten into an argument, okay about
Speaker 1: something that wasn't even related, and that's significant work. You
Speaker 1: didn't the garage, but guess what, I don't come like that.
Speaker 1: It was similar. It wasn't as an insignificant I was
Speaker 1: taking out the garbage, but it was something insignificant, and
Speaker 1: I was frustrated because he had no interest in resolving
Speaker 1: the problem and then to put a patch on it.
Speaker 1: He wanted to have sex with me because if I
Speaker 1: bleep her down, then she'd be happy. Because even though
Speaker 1: speaking my orgasms, I enjoyed every moment. It was the intimacy,
Speaker 1: it was the love and just sidebar. You know, for
Speaker 1: women it's not really when when you have an orgasm,
Speaker 1: it's not really about the man. I can have an
Speaker 1: orgasm if for Sean's penis was three inches now, because
Speaker 1: I know it's about me. It's about the connection, It's
Speaker 1: about the love. It's about stopping and concentrating on my
Speaker 1: own body, my own sensations, and being less performative. It's
Speaker 1: about taking during the sexual experience and not worrying so
Speaker 1: much about giving. And once I learned to do that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, I have all this power
Speaker 1: within myself to control my body and to control the
Speaker 1: degree to which I enjoy it. I have an orgasm
Speaker 1: every single time. Whether it's oral, whether it's intercourse, it
Speaker 1: really doesn't matter. And it's because I dictate that. So
Speaker 1: what I did that day by blurting it out because
Speaker 1: I was so upset, I'm like, you just wanna you
Speaker 1: just want to glaze over this with sex, and I'm
Speaker 1: not even gonna come. I'm like, well, guess what I'm
Speaker 1: thinking it. He was like, he was like, well, how
Speaker 1: long have you been facing it? I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I've never not faked it. And let me tell you,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you. Um. That was the
Speaker 1: absolute worst thing that I could have done in my marriage.
Speaker 1: It was the worst thing. And it wasn't the honesty
Speaker 1: that was so terrible. It was the way in which
Speaker 1: I delivered in the midst of an argument. It wasn't
Speaker 1: well thought out. It was harsh, it was insensitive, it
Speaker 1: was hurtful, it was spiteful, and I used it as
Speaker 1: a tool a weapon. I did I weaponized it that
Speaker 1: would make him not get when you you know, because
Speaker 1: for a guy his ego and I saw in the
Speaker 1: book you talked about how do you tell somebody they're
Speaker 1: not good in bed? And you're like, you don't, you don't,
Speaker 1: you don't. Why would you destroy somebody like that? No,
Speaker 1: there are other ways that you can communicate what you
Speaker 1: want to make it better to get to that point
Speaker 1: without crushing them, because when you love somebody, you don't
Speaker 1: crush him. And I wasn't loving him right In the book,
Speaker 1: there's a whole section on right fighting. You know, we
Speaker 1: would are you just to be right to My goal
Speaker 1: going into an argument was to that was the only
Speaker 1: thing that mattered. Getting to a common ground didn't matter.
Speaker 1: Resolving the issue didn't matter. And you know, being in
Speaker 1: a safe space just nothing mad as long as I
Speaker 1: could walk away and like puff my chest out like
Speaker 1: it's stupid, like you know what I mean, And that
Speaker 1: that was so misguided and it was young, it was inexperience,
Speaker 1: it was dumb. It was dumb, and um that's part
Speaker 1: of the reason why we wrote the book, because had
Speaker 1: I had a tool like that, then I would have
Speaker 1: seen all the flaws in myself, and I would have
Speaker 1: been able to identify the flaws in him because it
Speaker 1: was like a tennis man, like we were just messing
Speaker 1: up left and right with each other. I would have
Speaker 1: been able to identify those things and made some changes
Speaker 1: I could, of course corrected. But the problem is a
Speaker 1: lot of girls. They don't sit down. They don't have
Speaker 1: a relationship with their mother the same way that I
Speaker 1: had a relationship with you know what I mean. A
Speaker 1: lot of girls are just out there for themselves and
Speaker 1: learning from their friends and talking ish and you know
Speaker 1: doing You're not getting information from a safe place. We've
Speaker 1: been through. I feel like everything. Okay, let's go back
Speaker 1: to that, because in the early days I had no
Speaker 1: idea that he was this like ridiculously controlling. Now he
Speaker 1: talks about an incident where, you know, he was going
Speaker 1: to DJ and you went to a club the armory
Speaker 1: at the Army and then one of his snitche college
Speaker 1: party was like gears in the club and he turned
Speaker 1: around from on the road and came to the club
Speaker 1: and found you grinding on somebody because you know is
Speaker 1: by Jamaicans. Yes, he was grinding on somebody, and he
Speaker 1: snatched you right up sure did not in a an
Speaker 1: abusive way, like a like a rag doll, treated me
Speaker 1: like a rag doll. Yes, what happened was ever since
Speaker 1: day one, he was very very possessive, controlling and like
Speaker 1: obsessive even you know, um, I think he still gives
Speaker 1: me that he doesn't know. I don't think it's he
Speaker 1: controls it now. It's in a constructive way. Sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like he's more so about providing and protecting. It's
Speaker 1: not about the obsession and the controlling, because now he
Speaker 1: realizes that I love him for him, I truly love him,
Speaker 1: and he couldn't chase me away from him at this point,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? So he doesn't have
Speaker 1: that insecurity that ruled him because, as he says in
Speaker 1: the book, he was so preoccupied thinking that one day
Speaker 1: I would meet somebody more fill in the blank than him,
Speaker 1: as he puts it, more handsome, more charismatic, more intelligent,
Speaker 1: more this, more of that. So for him, he felt
Speaker 1: as though he just wanted to keep me like Rapunzel
Speaker 1: in the tower, like I don't want you going out,
Speaker 1: and I don't want you hanging out with your friends.
Speaker 1: I don't want you wearing anything that shows your cleavage.
Speaker 1: I don't want you do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I don't do don't work anymore, I don't want when
Speaker 1: he literally did not want me out in public unless
Speaker 1: I was out with him. And where that halfway flew
Speaker 1: for me was the fact that I truly loved being
Speaker 1: with him when we were in high school and as
Speaker 1: it speaks to that day that he wasn't there um
Speaker 1: when I was attacked. We were together every day after school,
Speaker 1: like every single day, every day, not one day except
Speaker 1: that day were we not together. We left school together,
Speaker 1: we got something to eat, we went and did something fun,
Speaker 1: and before the end of the evening he dropped me
Speaker 1: home back at my mom's you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like we were together. Even in college, we were together
Speaker 1: every single day. I was at O DU. He was
Speaker 1: at Hampton. Every day after his last class. He would
Speaker 1: come and pick me up after my last class, bring
Speaker 1: me back to Hampton. I slept at his house. Then
Speaker 1: he brought me back to O d you in the
Speaker 1: morning before my first class. And then we did that
Speaker 1: every single day until I replaced my car because I
Speaker 1: got into an accident, which is why he had to
Speaker 1: come and pick me up. But we genuinely enjoyed spending
Speaker 1: all of our time together. So for me, it wasn't
Speaker 1: as alarming. I didn't feel as though I was in
Speaker 1: a vice. I didn't feel like, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: just can't breathe. I just want to do this such
Speaker 1: a no, I just wanted He was okay, so let's
Speaker 1: talk about that day, because you did go to the
Speaker 1: club and tell them you weren't. So what was going
Speaker 1: on that day? That day? He was doing a club
Speaker 1: at Virginia State. So again we're in Hampton, right, and
Speaker 1: he got hired to do a club ina averrging Estate.
Speaker 1: I couldn't fit in the car because it would always
Speaker 1: be me and all of his friends. I was always
Speaker 1: there to be like ten dudes and me. But I
Speaker 1: couldn't fit in the car obviously, and he needed you
Speaker 1: know guys, you know, security type thing his friends and whatnot,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't go. So it was a college party
Speaker 1: at the Armory and he was like, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: you're not going to that party, right, And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I am going to the party. So like, what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen? He was like, he was like, now you're
Speaker 1: not going, and it turned into this big argument. So
Speaker 1: finally I was like, all right, I'm not gonna go,
Speaker 1: but I am, but I am just and the argument.
Speaker 1: So he goes. He gets on the road and then
Speaker 1: little Sean, who was like family to us, but it
Speaker 1: started so mad at him, honestly, yes, and he's like
Speaker 1: my homie too, what I'm trying? What the fun? Stabbed
Speaker 1: me in the back. So I go with all my girls.
Speaker 1: I drove and I'm there and yeah, like they're playing
Speaker 1: dance hole and I was dancing with this dude. How
Speaker 1: you were dancing, you know, like Brooklyn basement party, already
Speaker 1: against the world like I used to, with my feet
Speaker 1: on the wall, the wine on my head like you do,
Speaker 1: like your hand. But that was, yeah, that was the thing.
Speaker 1: That's what the departments and field. We were familiar with
Speaker 1: each other. Yes, I knew who he was, he knew
Speaker 1: who I was, but we weren't like cool or anything
Speaker 1: like that. Sean. Let's exactly. So we were dancing and
Speaker 1: my head was down, you know, and I just looked
Speaker 1: up and I saw Rashawn literally charging at me, charging
Speaker 1: at me. It was like that moment, you know, how
Speaker 1: he's saying like your life flash before my heart like
Speaker 1: that whatever that horrionis. Or I was like and next
Speaker 1: time I was up and over his shoulder and he
Speaker 1: just ran me to like the next side of the
Speaker 1: of the room and he put me down. Everybody's looking.
Speaker 1: He was like, yo, how could you do this to me? Like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can imagine like I'm watching you dance with him
Speaker 1: from across the room, or I could imagine that you
Speaker 1: having sex with him. It was just this whole like
Speaker 1: it really it really bothered him just to see someone
Speaker 1: else touching me, especially in like a sexual type of way.
Speaker 1: You know. I saw that, so it really affected him.
Speaker 1: I was like, we were just dancing, you know, like
Speaker 1: everybody knows that you're like this, and he and he
Speaker 1: knows that, like he knew that, and he was like,
Speaker 1: we're leaving. I'm like, I can't because I drove and
Speaker 1: you probably didn't want to. Of course I didn't want
Speaker 1: to at that point, like I know, I wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: have fun. Now he's standing standing behind me, like literally
Speaker 1: like holding me from behind because he's taller than me,
Speaker 1: and it was just like he was like claiming his property,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? And I literally just
Speaker 1: waited for the rest of my girlfriends to have fun
Speaker 1: and then we left and he was heartbroken, you know
Speaker 1: he was. He was heartbroken. So let me ask you
Speaker 1: this because you know clearly like we and I know
Speaker 1: this is in the book too, the time that he
Speaker 1: ended up calling you because he did funk up in
Speaker 1: the relationship. So that must have really cut you off
Speaker 1: guard because you see him doing all these things and
Speaker 1: when you're young, showing you how much he's in love
Speaker 1: with you. He doesn't want anybody else around you. He's
Speaker 1: so um, possessive and jealous. So did that catch you
Speaker 1: completely off guard? To say that I was thrown for
Speaker 1: a loop would be the biggest understatement. We had our problems,
Speaker 1: you know, but our problems were rooted in his insecurity,
Speaker 1: and those are problems that I felt as though I
Speaker 1: could manage if I loved him out of it, because
Speaker 1: I knew that once he understood that he was as
Speaker 1: amazing as he really was and that I was as
Speaker 1: in love with him as I really was, that he
Speaker 1: would eventually grow out of that, because that's all that
Speaker 1: that was. He didn't think he did believe that he
Speaker 1: deserved me, when he absolutely did. He absolutely did, so
Speaker 1: I knew that I just had to give of myself,
Speaker 1: but I don't know, I just I felt so bad
Speaker 1: for him at that time. So yeah, I was really
Speaker 1: caught off guard because he was so affectionate, he was
Speaker 1: so loving, consistent, He was consistent, he was generous, he
Speaker 1: was thoughtful, He was more romantic than I have ever been.
Speaker 1: He always like he's the he's the romantic one in
Speaker 1: the relationship. He's the one that's going to think of
Speaker 1: off the wall things, grand things like he's gonna he's
Speaker 1: gonna do the words. Even with twelve days of Christmas,
Speaker 1: it's not even the gifts, because start shopping almost a
Speaker 1: year about sometimes like he's shopping like a year in advance.
Speaker 1: He does all of these things, and throughout our entire
Speaker 1: relationship he would say things like if you like it,
Speaker 1: I love it, or I live to make you happy.
Speaker 1: Just seeing that smile on your face it's all that
Speaker 1: I need. And he's never faltered in that. So while
Speaker 1: he was carrying through his indiscretion, he was still that
Speaker 1: amazing husband to me at home. And again, not that
Speaker 1: we weren't flawed, but our flaws were relatively specific and
Speaker 1: surrounding one thing. I would have never like our friends,
Speaker 1: everyone in our life, my mother grew to absolutely adore him,
Speaker 1: his parents love you, his parents loved me like. It
Speaker 1: was wonderful. Far from perfect, but it was wonderful. I
Speaker 1: would have never thought that he even had it in him.
Speaker 1: I couldn't even wrap my mind around the fact that
Speaker 1: like he could be attracted to somebody else, so that
Speaker 1: he could. It was hard for me to understand because
Speaker 1: he put so much into our relationship, do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? And then logically you think like, well,
Speaker 1: there's that, but you're so worried about losing me. But
Speaker 1: in this situation, you're doing everything that you can to
Speaker 1: ensure that you lose me. Because I was raised by
Speaker 1: very strong parents, particularly a very strong mother, and I
Speaker 1: have always been very clear and just in my life.
Speaker 1: You know, at the time especially, I was very black
Speaker 1: and white, like, not very gray. I don't put up
Speaker 1: with anything from anyone, not friends, not boyfriends, not husband,
Speaker 1: not my children. I'm very clear about in my life
Speaker 1: what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And at that time particularly,
Speaker 1: I wasn't very tolerant and I absolutely was not a
Speaker 1: forgiving person. If my friend messed up with me, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't even call you to tell you that a
Speaker 1: problem with what we what you did. I just not
Speaker 1: talking to you that block you, like like it's not
Speaker 1: even worth a conversation. And that's my personality. So he knew,
Speaker 1: like he knew what he was up against when he
Speaker 1: did that. That's crazy because you know, even looking back
Speaker 1: to that time and you're talking about it in the
Speaker 1: book and everything and being open and honest about it.
Speaker 1: I never would have even thought that would happen. But
Speaker 1: do you feel like, because we've discussed this, you don't
Speaker 1: like being public. You didn't even really want like your
Speaker 1: picture out there at the time. And yeah, and at
Speaker 1: that time, it wasn't like and was like posting. People
Speaker 1: didn't even know, Like some people acted like they didn't know.
Speaker 1: I remember somebody was like, oh, yeah, I mean he's not.
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, he's definitely married, like because you
Speaker 1: could google it and see it's not and I had
Speaker 1: seen a press confidence that you did exactly. Listen, let's
Speaker 1: just be very clear, Like I wasn't a public person,
Speaker 1: but people knew that Rashaun was married. We were serious together.
Speaker 1: I always knew that he was married. People knew. He
Speaker 1: was on Miss Jones in the Morning for years prior,
Speaker 1: and he talked about me, he talked about the kids.
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, we went through a
Speaker 1: whole public debacle with another radio show host that I
Speaker 1: refused to mention the name. I did a press conference
Speaker 1: that radio jock was fired, his multimillion dollar his multimillion
Speaker 1: dollar contract was killed. It was done because he was
Speaker 1: in violation. I mean, it was a very very big thing.
Speaker 1: It was on tent Tex, it was on the news,
Speaker 1: We were in the newspapers. I was no way somebody
Speaker 1: didn't know. Anybody that claims that I was a secret
Speaker 1: is a freaking lunatic. So if you're you've never been
Speaker 1: to their house and nothing, that they've never closed a
Speaker 1: picture of you, there's no way you could really think
Speaker 1: that's like a real situation. Of course, not even even
Speaker 1: if even if he's trying to make you believe that.
Speaker 1: So you're like, you still know as a woman, we do,
Speaker 1: we go and do and I mean like like what
Speaker 1: so what now? Google isn't the thing? Right? Like? Are
Speaker 1: you just gonna play stupid? Aby? Do you google them? Right? Awes?
Speaker 1: I do? If? I okay, I'm not if I don't
Speaker 1: trust me. The moment I tell him, give me a second,
Speaker 1: what's their name again? And they're looking like I just said,
Speaker 1: it's so funny they want my friends because I'm like, well, no,
Speaker 1: because he's really nice and no, but hold on, girl,
Speaker 1: what's his name again? How are you spelling? Where do
Speaker 1: they live? They'll come back with the whole background check.
Speaker 1: So if I'm not doing it, trust them, believe one
Speaker 1: of my close friends. The second I mentioned a guy's name,
Speaker 1: they're like, they don't forgive me any time I even
Speaker 1: consider somebody now with God, not worth even if even
Speaker 1: they're checking. I found a guy that I started talking to,
Speaker 1: but this was back in high school and it was
Speaker 1: the first guy that I actually got it. My first
Speaker 1: orgasm was with this guy at there my son's dad
Speaker 1: and when I met him. We met him at a
Speaker 1: club in Miami, play back in the days. It's called
Speaker 1: six o nine and cocing a girl, and I met
Speaker 1: him there. He was just so fine, dressed in all
Speaker 1: khaki tan khaki um dickies. I talked to my friend
Speaker 1: about him, and like two days later, while he was
Speaker 1: in school, she's like, pitch, what girl he was on?
Speaker 1: Inmate dot com. He has this much record. I just
Speaker 1: got out of prison, like my job. I was a
Speaker 1: senior in high school. She said, he just got out
Speaker 1: of prison. I'm like, how keep finding all that ship out? Like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I will tell you everything. Sometimes you'd be like, girl,
Speaker 1: stop telling me right, Like I don't want to know. Yes,
Speaker 1: so with him, Like if you're in a position to
Speaker 1: take a particular interest in him, then yes, I'm sure
Speaker 1: that you can google it. Let's be real. That was
Speaker 1: it for you to actually come out like and be
Speaker 1: more in the you know, like you guys have had
Speaker 1: the podcast together because you were so private before that. Yes,
Speaker 1: I wasn't deliberately private. I I am not a private person, um,
Speaker 1: the type of person like I'll share everything because I
Speaker 1: just feel like when you share your life with people
Speaker 1: as we do on the podcast, as we did in
Speaker 1: the book, it's there's a sense of community in that
Speaker 1: where you share your reality and it gives other people,
Speaker 1: particularly you know, for us women, um, something to relate to,
Speaker 1: and you realize like you're not the only one. You're
Speaker 1: not the only one that that bad things happen to.
Speaker 1: You're not the only one that felt that way, and
Speaker 1: it's like a sisterhood in that. So for me, being
Speaker 1: open and sharing the good and the bad is very,
Speaker 1: very important because in our day and age, you know,
Speaker 1: everything is about image, and you only know about people
Speaker 1: if you're based on something a platform like social media,
Speaker 1: what they want you to perceive them to be. They
Speaker 1: create exactly, and it's it's very particular, and it's in
Speaker 1: a way manipulative, do you know what I mean? So
Speaker 1: if you're just sitting back and taking all this sin
Speaker 1: and believing it, then what does it take for you know,
Speaker 1: a young girl to look at somebody or even a
Speaker 1: grown ass woman to be like, damn, my life ain't
Speaker 1: should because look at this, this is reality. There's something
Speaker 1: wrong with me. There's something wrong with my relationship, maybe
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with my upbringing, and it just breads insecurity.
Speaker 1: But when you can see people for who they really
Speaker 1: are and what they really go through, you could say, Okay,
Speaker 1: well you know what, maybe it's not great, but at
Speaker 1: least there's a sense of community here where I feel
Speaker 1: as though I'm not the only one I can relate.
Speaker 1: There's a reference point for you, you know. So for me,
Speaker 1: it's always been important to share and to be open
Speaker 1: about it. So I just I was never interested in
Speaker 1: social media at the time. I've never been to this day,
Speaker 1: I've never even opened up a Facebook page. I don't
Speaker 1: even know what the Facebook home page out there keeps
Speaker 1: telling me that, right that I've never been on Twitter,
Speaker 1: I've never tweeted, Like, I've never tweeted, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. My daughter was I don't know, be eleven
Speaker 1: or twelve or thirteen whatever and put me onto Instagram.
Speaker 1: So if you go to my Instagram, the very first
Speaker 1: picture is just a picture of Madison's eye because we
Speaker 1: were sitting on this and she was like, no, it's
Speaker 1: like you take a picture. She took a picture of
Speaker 1: her eye, she posted it. She showed me how to
Speaker 1: do it, and I was like, oh, that's what this
Speaker 1: thing is. I didn't even really understand or grasp social media. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Rashawn was on Twitter, Shawn was on Instagram. Sidebar. All
Speaker 1: the evidence like stuff was there. And I mean, so
Speaker 1: I wasn't deliberately like one of your friends because she
Speaker 1: was like connected in the industry and that yes, I
Speaker 1: had met this older woman and she was in the industry,
Speaker 1: like she had managed some people and whatnot. We had
Speaker 1: daughters the same age, My daughter in Madison were the
Speaker 1: same age, and we started hanging out. The girls went
Speaker 1: to camp together, and every week he found a reason
Speaker 1: for me to not hang out with her or I
Speaker 1: think that she's this, And it was reminiscent of how
Speaker 1: he was in college, you know, is like, yes, he
Speaker 1: felt like she would be the potential to closer to
Speaker 1: the truth, right what had happened she well, listen. I
Speaker 1: feel like, and I always say this, like on on
Speaker 1: the Breakfast Club and I say it in real life,
Speaker 1: but whatever decisions people making their relationship, like it is
Speaker 1: what it is. If you decide something happens, if you
Speaker 1: want to stay, that's on you. If you decide something happens,
Speaker 1: you want to leave. Because I also feel like women
Speaker 1: get like demonized for leaving and giving up too, Like
Speaker 1: I've heard that so much. Like really, I'm all the
Speaker 1: time people act like something wrong with you as a
Speaker 1: woman if you don't want to stick through something, if
Speaker 1: you're not right or die if I've definitely and you
Speaker 1: know what part of it might be because I work
Speaker 1: with men, and I've always worked around a lot of men,
Speaker 1: so they make it seem like from a man's perspective, right,
Speaker 1: and they feel like writer Die is important, right, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, listen, all of us have been through a
Speaker 1: lot of things in this room, and we've made decisions
Speaker 1: and it's not a right decision or a wrong decision.
Speaker 1: It's just a personal decision, you know. And so for yourself,
Speaker 1: it took a lot for you to decide to stay.
Speaker 1: And I think that's important too, because I'm sorry to instrupt,
Speaker 1: but I didn't stay because I was a writer die.
Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there right right
Speaker 1: reason and listen on the Breakfast Club, and he was
Speaker 1: so distracted every single day at work. I was like,
Speaker 1: we would be doing interviews, we would be doing a show,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't know what was going on. He would be
Speaker 1: on his phone the whole time. I would be like,
Speaker 1: I didn't know if the show was going to continue
Speaker 1: because he was so and it was early on he
Speaker 1: was so like every day he wasn't doing all interviews,
Speaker 1: he was leaving. There was days he wasn't coming in
Speaker 1: at all, you know, because he was trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what am I gonna do? He was so devastated
Speaker 1: and like normally for myself, like I think about You know,
Speaker 1: I've been in situations and clearly I'm not married, but
Speaker 1: you know, I've been in situations where something's happened, a
Speaker 1: guy's cheated, and I'm like, I'm not dealing with that
Speaker 1: anymore because i know how I'm going to be. It
Speaker 1: actually made me look at things different really to see
Speaker 1: what your guy's situation was, you know what I'm seeking
Speaker 1: to see, like how he was reacting. I actually felt
Speaker 1: bad for him, and normally I wouldn't feel bad for
Speaker 1: a guy who did the things that he did. But
Speaker 1: it made me look at things differently. You know. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about that time period because there are guys
Speaker 1: that really do mess up, and there are women that
Speaker 1: want to stay in their relationship and fix things but
Speaker 1: they don't know how. Oh no, I didn't want to
Speaker 1: stay in my relationship with Like I said, I was
Speaker 1: very black and white. So as soon as I found
Speaker 1: out that what I had had a notion of was true, um,
Speaker 1: and you would have to read it in the book
Speaker 1: because it is a very Yeah, it's a long story.
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell that because if you need
Speaker 1: people to buy this book, but it's a very it's
Speaker 1: a very interesting story. That pulls at your heart from
Speaker 1: different directions. But once I found out that it was true, Um,
Speaker 1: we were in a car. I'll tell a little bit.
Speaker 1: I realized it, and I decided that I had to
Speaker 1: confront him, but in a way that would get him
Speaker 1: to confess because you didn't know all the details, you know,
Speaker 1: we did. I had to absolutely mind bleep him. I
Speaker 1: had to make him think that I knew and that
Speaker 1: I wasn't coming to him and asking him if it
Speaker 1: was true. I was basically telling him that I knew
Speaker 1: it to be true, giving him giving you an opportunity
Speaker 1: to have a conversation about it. You can tell me
Speaker 1: whatever you want me to know about it, or you
Speaker 1: can say nothing at all, because I know, while really
Speaker 1: I knew nothing, I just believed it to be true.
Speaker 1: You wanted to You weren't sure, and I wasn't sure.
Speaker 1: My intuition told me that it was true. And it's
Speaker 1: just it's that it's that thing that you try to
Speaker 1: shoot away. Your intuition is telling you something negative that
Speaker 1: you don't want to believe. But you know, damn well,
Speaker 1: there's something too. And it was nothing he was doing
Speaker 1: in the home. But I couldn't figure out in my
Speaker 1: own reality, why this particular information would be on a block.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? So I confronted him.
Speaker 1: Long story short, he confessed. It was very heart wrenching.
Speaker 1: We were in a car in a home depot parking lot.
Speaker 1: I called him. I told him I was on my
Speaker 1: way home, and I was like, we need to talk.
Speaker 1: He's like, we need What do you mean we need
Speaker 1: to talk because watching on TV after dinner tonight, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like, I was like, just
Speaker 1: meet me at home. Now. Both of us are about
Speaker 1: maybe twenty five minutes away from the house. I was like,
Speaker 1: meet me at home. He's like, now are you at
Speaker 1: right now? I was like, I'm on seventeen, about to
Speaker 1: pass the home depot. He's like, pull into the parking lot.
Speaker 1: I'll be there in ten minutes. RIGHTS like now he
Speaker 1: couldn't wait the extra twelve minutes to get home. Pull
Speaker 1: into home depot parking lot. He pulls up. I confront
Speaker 1: him again, Long story short, he confesses, and I pulled
Speaker 1: away from him, and I remember looking at my real
Speaker 1: re view mirror and just seeing him sitting on the
Speaker 1: curb crying. I went straight to my house. It was
Speaker 1: a few days before Christmas, my mother in law was there,
Speaker 1: his mom. Yes, my mother in law was there and
Speaker 1: we were decorating because we were hosting Christmas that year.
Speaker 1: And I walked right upstairs. She was standing right outside
Speaker 1: my kids play room. I was like, yes, so, um,
Speaker 1: we're Shan and I are getting a divorce. Who And
Speaker 1: she was like, I said, yeah, there's no Christmas this year,
Speaker 1: so you could just let we could pack everything back
Speaker 1: up because this marriage is over. And she's lying pretty
Speaker 1: much that he sent to me in the car when
Speaker 1: I confronted him, whoever told you, they're just jealous? That's
Speaker 1: what his mama said. So his mother said the same thing, Mama,
Speaker 1: God bless her. I love her to death. But no,
Speaker 1: But you have to understand, nobody would have believed. Nobody
Speaker 1: would nobody, our friends, our family, because he did not
Speaker 1: present himself in the world that way. And honestly exactly
Speaker 1: because even me, like I had been in the club
Speaker 1: with him, you know, we were doing the breakfast class.
Speaker 1: I've never seen him do anything. Yes, I think he
Speaker 1: had an indiscretion. I think that he made a bad decision.
Speaker 1: I don't call it a mistake. He made a bad
Speaker 1: decision and sidebar a huge catalyst. A huge cause of
Speaker 1: the reason why was because of what I told him
Speaker 1: just some years earlier about I was going to ask
Speaker 1: you that. Yes, that was the biggest reason, because now
Speaker 1: he had this huge hole in his ego and he
Speaker 1: was hurt, and now he needed someone or something to
Speaker 1: validate him, you know. And when he's at home, you know,
Speaker 1: he's just for Shawn, husband and father, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But when he's in the streets, he's empy,
Speaker 1: you know what you mean. And it wasn't until you know,
Speaker 1: sometime after I went out with him, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: you got groupies girls dance is seductively in front of
Speaker 1: the DJO get your attention. Like the times he's been
Speaker 1: at me and I've gone like, I really don't see,
Speaker 1: Like it's literally June um. And then if I'll come
Speaker 1: like me, I really don't, so I wouldn't imagine yes,
Speaker 1: And then that's another thing. He's like, yeah, we're going out,
Speaker 1: and then it's like two and the one las two
Speaker 1: in the one, right, So I really have I really
Speaker 1: seen Yeah? Yeah, June, like I've never really seen you know,
Speaker 1: women really around one time. Yeah, but it was your
Speaker 1: home girls. I believe that I met, but it's because
Speaker 1: like he keeps and I'm not saying I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that he was out there. He was for the streets
Speaker 1: like he I mean, like it was a situation that
Speaker 1: he got himself into. I'm not saying that it happened
Speaker 1: over a long period of time. I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: it happened with multiple women. I'm just saying that And
Speaker 1: it could have been one woman, that could have been
Speaker 1: fifty two women. For me, it didn't make a difference.
Speaker 1: It was the betrayal. It was the lies that you
Speaker 1: had to tell me to get this done. Considering what
Speaker 1: we have and what we had between us was very special.
Speaker 1: So it's particularly devastated. Is it pardy that it was
Speaker 1: public too? Like? Because I feel like that's another layer.
Speaker 1: It's one thing when something happens and the whole you know,
Speaker 1: everybody don't have to know about it, but it's a
Speaker 1: whole other thing when people are like, you know, having
Speaker 1: people wait in in on it. It would have carried
Speaker 1: out the same way. Um, whether it was public or private,
Speaker 1: nothing would have changed. But of course it was more
Speaker 1: difficult because after he said what he said on the
Speaker 1: breakfast club public apology. I was like, don't do it.
Speaker 1: He seemed very remote. It was it was the last
Speaker 1: ditch attempt for him to try to do something that
Speaker 1: he thought was a grand gesture of his love, because
Speaker 1: he had been trying for quite some time after I
Speaker 1: had found out to relinquish what we had and it
Speaker 1: was failing. And um, the night before he did that,
Speaker 1: something significant had happened. Again, it's in the book, but
Speaker 1: something significant had happened, and he realized, like, oh, it's over. Over,
Speaker 1: Like this isn't a bluff. He knew it in his heart.
Speaker 1: A heartment, he was trying, it's not a bluff. Like
Speaker 1: she's already paid a divorce attorney, she's already told her,
Speaker 1: her mother, my parents, the kids, like I was preparing everybody,
Speaker 1: and the worst party was over. He had the narrative,
Speaker 1: asked June to come to you and talk to you.
Speaker 1: Come on. I don't know doing was the right person
Speaker 1: for that, because it's a great now. Dune is a
Speaker 1: great guy, but you're not like you got to know
Speaker 1: if I have a called June to try to salvage
Speaker 1: nothing him about a geek and I'm looking at him
Speaker 1: the same way that I look at people that don't
Speaker 1: know me, and that I don't know Rashawn, that's say, oh,
Speaker 1: she stayed with him for the money, right, And I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there and I remember looking at him that day
Speaker 1: when he's like, you're gonna leave all of this? You know,
Speaker 1: we were in a club when he said that to me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, so, you're gonna compare my love
Speaker 1: in my heart to like material, some pounds of leather,
Speaker 1: to like some handbags, some shoes, some jewelry. Jewice said this, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you were not the right person, like you misunderstood this.
Speaker 1: It's actually that's actually the thought that I had in
Speaker 1: that moment. I was literally thinking to myself, like, you're
Speaker 1: going to compare like my love, my emotions, my life
Speaker 1: to some leather. And you know, that's why gets really
Speaker 1: think about it, like people try to act like Gea
Speaker 1: was like there because honestly, and he says this all
Speaker 1: the time and it's in the book, but you were
Speaker 1: the one that was the breadwinner. At first. He really
Speaker 1: did not want you to leave and go work and everything,
Speaker 1: you know, and you were very supportive of him and
Speaker 1: has come up and he's always very making sure that
Speaker 1: people know that story because you were together from such
Speaker 1: a young and sixteen seventeen and so that's why even
Speaker 1: with the Jesus and Marrow situation, he was so angry.
Speaker 1: He knows the real he knows what really was going
Speaker 1: on versus people see you today. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: I think that with the whole Jesus and Merrow thing, Um,
Speaker 1: I think what bothered him. I think that he felt
Speaker 1: as though he was defending me, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: what they said, what is that insinuating? Yes, I know
Speaker 1: it was poised as a joke, but we all know
Speaker 1: that jokes, all jokes are rooted into something, do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And that something is what bothered
Speaker 1: him because it suggests that that's all that he's worth,
Speaker 1: that all he's worth, all that he's good for is right.
Speaker 1: And I think that that was the message that was
Speaker 1: a little disturbing. And in this business they do act
Speaker 1: like if a man is providing and financially making sure
Speaker 1: you're good. You've got a nice house, you got the family,
Speaker 1: you know, a little cheating is okay. Yeah. No, not
Speaker 1: for me, No, not for me, because I think that
Speaker 1: as women we do deserve it all you know, if
Speaker 1: we are deserving. When A. J. Johnson was on the
Speaker 1: Breakfast Club and I know you've seen this A J.
Speaker 1: Johnson and we asked her, like, you know, would you
Speaker 1: want to know Gia ever when out with somebody else
Speaker 1: during the time that y'all had a break if anything
Speaker 1: ever happened. He said he would never want to know that.
Speaker 1: Did you see that, um she was in house party? Yes? Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh he's telling the damn truth, right. He does not
Speaker 1: want to know him. I have asked him like, just
Speaker 1: you know, you're laying in bed, you having stupid conversations,
Speaker 1: you know. And I've asked him on several occasions, you know,
Speaker 1: like so if I ever had an indiscretion, would you
Speaker 1: ever stopped out on you? Would you want to know?
Speaker 1: He's like, keep it to yourself. He does not want
Speaker 1: to know. He was like, I can't take it. We
Speaker 1: know that, but yeah, because you know that she's I mean,
Speaker 1: that was crazy because that turned into a whole conversation
Speaker 1: of like why would you not want to because you
Speaker 1: guys did have a period of time when you were
Speaker 1: not together, Like I mean, when you were like it's
Speaker 1: over and you thought, see because it would have been
Speaker 1: okay for you, right you think at that time to
Speaker 1: be like, let me go out with somebody else. M
Speaker 1: At that time, my focus was on how I was
Speaker 1: going to co parent, how I was going to be divorced.
Speaker 1: But keeper Shawn insane because when I told him I
Speaker 1: wanted a divorce, which was that same day, he sunk
Speaker 1: to a very very very low place, and I couldn't
Speaker 1: necessarily think about my feelings at that time. I was
Speaker 1: thinking about him, and I was thinking about my kids.
Speaker 1: I still wanted my divorce, but I would say things
Speaker 1: like we can co parent. I don't hate you, you know,
Speaker 1: was pre I just don't want to be married to you.
Speaker 1: I just want to be your wife's morning. If you
Speaker 1: would have said I hate you, I think it might have.
Speaker 1: I think I think it might have. But you know,
Speaker 1: like for me, I feel like women, particularly men too,
Speaker 1: But I'm talking about women. You make a lot of
Speaker 1: bad decisions because you make them with your heart. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? For me, it's the head
Speaker 1: and it's the heart. And I always listened to my
Speaker 1: head before I listened to my heart, because you know
Speaker 1: your heart will be like yeah, girl, like forgive him.
Speaker 1: Your head is like, um, so should I remind you
Speaker 1: about all the to put you in this situation? The
Speaker 1: head keeps you straight, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So for me, it didn't matter if I was devastated,
Speaker 1: if I was crying my face into a pillow every night,
Speaker 1: it didn't matter how I felt. I didn't care about
Speaker 1: how I felt. I cared about what I had made
Speaker 1: up my mind to do, and I was going to
Speaker 1: do it. And you know how they say only God
Speaker 1: could come down. God literally had to come down and
Speaker 1: intervene in my relationship in a way that I couldn't
Speaker 1: chalk up to coincidence. My marriage that and you got this.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you that has got honestly that story,
Speaker 1: um in the book it it has to be, if
Speaker 1: not the most significant thing, one of the absolute most
Speaker 1: significant things that has ever happened to me. It's the
Speaker 1: reason why I don't regret what we went through. It
Speaker 1: was like a gift and a curse because I benefited
Speaker 1: so much more from that point than I ever suffered
Speaker 1: because of what He did to get us to that point.
Speaker 1: So you think your relationship is stronger now, that's like,
Speaker 1: that's an understanding. You know, I've said this before. I
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes that doesn't do it. Just things like that,
Speaker 1: when you go through stuff in a relationship, even cheating,
Speaker 1: that can't make your relationships stronger if the work is
Speaker 1: done to correct the course. Yes, Um, there's a chapter
Speaker 1: in the book called the New Deal, and for me
Speaker 1: it's probably I don't say I dare to say my
Speaker 1: favorite chapter, but it's a very very important chapter that's
Speaker 1: near and dear to me. A lot of women asked like,
Speaker 1: how did you forgive? How did he get back in
Speaker 1: your good graces? Like how are you able to laugh
Speaker 1: about that now? Because I could laugh about it now.
Speaker 1: I don't hold anything, not a morsel in my heart
Speaker 1: because of what happened. Because you know, like, if you've
Speaker 1: ever been cheated on by someone that you love, that
Speaker 1: could be like fifteen years down the line you're still
Speaker 1: thinking about You're still harboring resentment. Exactly me. I've absolutely
Speaker 1: been able. I've been given the blessing of being able
Speaker 1: to completely let it go and move on and be
Speaker 1: in a happier place than I ever thought was even possible.
Speaker 1: Are there ever triggers for you? Like not anymore? But
Speaker 1: let me be very clear, it took years. This happened. Um,
Speaker 1: this happened about twelve years ago when I found out.
Speaker 1: When I read that blog, it was already about two
Speaker 1: years old. It had already ended two years prior to
Speaker 1: when I found out. So I was finding out about
Speaker 1: old old stuff, do you know what I mean? It
Speaker 1: just happened to resurface where I could like see that
Speaker 1: it happened to see what I mean. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I at the time, it took I would say, about
Speaker 1: maybe three or four years for me to learn to
Speaker 1: gain wisdom, to really understand what love was, and to
Speaker 1: even more importantly understand what forgiveness for what real forgiveness is,
Speaker 1: because a lot of women you get cheated on and
Speaker 1: you stay, and it's like, well, of course, because you stay.
Speaker 1: You know, when you forgive, you don't forgive to relieve
Speaker 1: the other person of that burden. You forgive for yourself
Speaker 1: so you can relinquish yourself with your onfernity. I know
Speaker 1: your parents for giving him. Well, here's the thing, So
Speaker 1: my father had already passed away. My father passed away
Speaker 1: when I was nineteen, and when this happened, my mother
Speaker 1: was probably three years into her battle with dementia, so
Speaker 1: she was never able to even know or understand what
Speaker 1: had happened. I don't no one to really talk to
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, but I didn't need anyone, okay, Um,
Speaker 1: I didn't need anyone. I've always been like the type
Speaker 1: of person that if something happens, I deal with it
Speaker 1: on my own. But you have friends together that you
Speaker 1: had had from when you were teenagers. We do, right,
Speaker 1: So what about with them? Like, what kind of advice
Speaker 1: were they giving you? Nothing? I didn't bring this to
Speaker 1: any of my friends, so they weren't calling you like, girl,
Speaker 1: we've seen what's going on, like are you okay? Rashid See,
Speaker 1: at the time, we were being approached by different production
Speaker 1: companies who we have to do a reality show. We
Speaker 1: were approached by Real Housewives of New Jersey and just
Speaker 1: you know, producers that wanted to produce a family show.
Speaker 1: And it was like in the blogs. I don't even
Speaker 1: know how the blogs found out about that stuff, but
Speaker 1: you know, they found out and we were seeing like
Speaker 1: different posts and everything. So my best friend who lives
Speaker 1: in California, um l a with my other best friend.
Speaker 1: It's a couple of Sasha and Raschid. He had heard
Speaker 1: about what had happened when ra Seawan apologized and he
Speaker 1: thought that it was like fake to drum up public
Speaker 1: publicity for reality TV. So when he called me and
Speaker 1: he was like I heard and so and so forth,
Speaker 1: he was like, and I'm like sitting it like it's
Speaker 1: this phrase. I was like, oh no, no, no no, honey,
Speaker 1: it's all true. It is all true. Everything that you read,
Speaker 1: it is all true. And he's like blown away. And
Speaker 1: he was the one person, the only person in my
Speaker 1: entire life of friends and family that did not support Rashwan.
Speaker 1: And he always said he's too controlling, he's too obsessive,
Speaker 1: he's too possessive, and I just he needs you too much.
Speaker 1: And if you're ever to leave him, I just don't
Speaker 1: know what would happen. You know, you need to consider
Speaker 1: maybe moving on or moving away slowly. And I was
Speaker 1: like I would tell him, likeny, like it's not that seriously, Rashaan.
Speaker 1: I've never been afraid of Rashwan. I've never been like,
Speaker 1: he's never been physically abused, like nothing like himself. He
Speaker 1: would do something to himself. He would, it's not even
Speaker 1: before he would never, but he never, Yes, he would
Speaker 1: do something to himself. And it's always been Rashawn's thing,
Speaker 1: like if we got into a bad argument, if I
Speaker 1: was throwing now, mind you, I've We've never broken up
Speaker 1: a day in twenty seven years. I've tried, just like
Speaker 1: when I tried to divorce it. Don't think when you
Speaker 1: guys are going through your things that you were broken up.
Speaker 1: It just seems like I was trying had to be
Speaker 1: delicate with him because I was worried about his mental state.
Speaker 1: Is the most responsible person I've ever known. He's never late.
Speaker 1: He shows up to work like everyone if he does.
Speaker 1: If he does, it's because it's something that's beyond his control.
Speaker 1: Like he doesn't wake up late. He doesn't like disregard,
Speaker 1: you know what. Like he shows up to work, he
Speaker 1: gets he pays bills on time. Like he is someone
Speaker 1: that you can really really rely on on. And at
Speaker 1: that time I would hear like he would not show
Speaker 1: up for work, not he's coming to call his boss
Speaker 1: and not call his co host and say hey, I'm
Speaker 1: not coming in or whatever. I would go in the
Speaker 1: room in the morning and he would just be laying
Speaker 1: there because wectually be in the same room. He was
Speaker 1: sleeping in the guest room. So I'll go down the hall,
Speaker 1: and I would open the door and it would be
Speaker 1: locked up. They had a credit card, and I got
Speaker 1: to break into the room. I get in there and
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I'm like, you're not going to work.
Speaker 1: He's like f work, He's like F life. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: even be here. He was on a slippery slope, you know.
Speaker 1: So we didn't actually break up. I'm like, okay, you
Speaker 1: can stay here. Like I felt that I could kind
Speaker 1: of take care of him and just get us to
Speaker 1: a place where I got what he what I wanted,
Speaker 1: but that he was safe. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So no, we we've never actually broken up. Okay, So man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you for coming out here and being still
Speaker 1: open and honest. I love hearing your perspective, you know,
Speaker 1: because I see why you told him to stay home.
Speaker 1: I see why woul everybody over talking. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. We all know his side of the story
Speaker 1: so many different times we've heard him talk about it,
Speaker 1: so it was nice to hear things from your point
Speaker 1: of view, you know, as always, And you know, I'm
Speaker 1: glad that you guys wrote this book because there's a
Speaker 1: lot of gems in here. I know y'all are doing
Speaker 1: a ton of press even just thinking about marriage and
Speaker 1: the importance of marriage and how do you know it's
Speaker 1: time for you to get married? You have a whole
Speaker 1: like questions about how you know that. But I think
Speaker 1: this is really helpful. Like I said, I've seen a
Speaker 1: lot of these things transpired, but I didn't know the
Speaker 1: full story. I only knew things from Envy's point of view,
Speaker 1: you know, But I've always been team Gear, as you know.
Speaker 1: At one point he was like, you're the only girl
Speaker 1: that's allowed to be in my phone for work purposes,
Speaker 1: you know, and even for yourself moving forward, right, you
Speaker 1: have access to everything, so you don't even have to Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like we're one, do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like with his Instagram, Like I'm in
Speaker 1: his Instagram, he's in my Instagram, so I could just
Speaker 1: double tap and then all of a sudden, I have
Speaker 1: control of his Instagram. He calls it a phone up
Speaker 1: a phone up relationship. So we have access to each
Speaker 1: other's Instagram and to each other's email. And it's not
Speaker 1: through a sense of control or anything like that. It's
Speaker 1: just that you're completely open. Was this like that prior
Speaker 1: to the incident always or do you feel that I'm
Speaker 1: not the type of person that would ever go through
Speaker 1: a man's phone, because if I have to do that,
Speaker 1: then I don't want to be with you. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not playing detective work. I'm not like even when
Speaker 1: I found that blog that day, I googled looking for
Speaker 1: pictures from a photo shoot that he had just complained.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, it's about been about three weeks,
Speaker 1: like the picture should be up. So I google and
Speaker 1: I was looking for like the magazine photos and whatnot.
Speaker 1: When I google dj Envy, this blog came up and
Speaker 1: I was like, what was that? And I've never been
Speaker 1: on that blog, so I'm like, men, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: know the blog exactly to take out and we're not
Speaker 1: gonna talk about that, right, but yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: was that blog, but I've never so no, I'm not
Speaker 1: doing anything extra. I feel like, you have a cage
Speaker 1: as a burden it. You should be able to leave
Speaker 1: that door open and if the bird flies out, then
Speaker 1: he is not for you that to sit his ass
Speaker 1: right there perched on that little that little swing and
Speaker 1: be happy and if and if it flies then you're
Speaker 1: like Okay, we'll have my answer, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So that's awesome because I always felt like he could
Speaker 1: do whatever she wanted in life. So I always tell
Speaker 1: Envy all the time, he's really fortunate than that dedication
Speaker 1: to your mom that probably, like you said, she was
Speaker 1: already going through the manship reading what you wrote, it
Speaker 1: was kind of like that helped you get through that
Speaker 1: even though she wasn't able to be there at that moment.
Speaker 1: But everything that you know, you wrote, that, what she
Speaker 1: taught you, and everything in let up to you being
Speaker 1: able to get through that situation with a clear mind.
Speaker 1: That dedication was everything I am my mother's daughter, you know.
Speaker 1: I always comparing your dedication to God and was like,
Speaker 1: what's up with j Shout out to you guys. Make
Speaker 1: sure you pick up in real life, real love. You
Speaker 1: get to hear some of the most amazing, interesting stories
Speaker 1: from both points of view. And I do appreciate the
Speaker 1: fact that and he was so transparent in it because
Speaker 1: there's things that I never looked at. I was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta to make fun of him for some things
Speaker 1: like what things like the dildo situation or even like
Speaker 1: you know, I know that like we joke about the
Speaker 1: fact that he broke out of the mental hospital. But
Speaker 1: that was reading it in the in the book was
Speaker 1: so different because when he tells us a story, he
Speaker 1: tells it in a joking. He makes light of it, right,
Speaker 1: But when he made it it was not light. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so like he'll talk about driving out, you know,
Speaker 1: my feet hanging out, his picture his feet hanging out.
Speaker 1: Because the way he tells the story, it doesn't sound
Speaker 1: as serious as when you read it in the book
Speaker 1: of what he was going through. He really did not
Speaker 1: want to live, and so he can tell it to
Speaker 1: us in a certain way. And I know that sometimes
Speaker 1: that's like a defense mechanism, you know, to be able
Speaker 1: to make a light of something. But what was having
Speaker 1: to go through having to call the cops? You know?
Speaker 1: I saw him that night because I was or whatever.
Speaker 1: The next night, I was having a birthday party and
Speaker 1: he was DJ, and he showed up and the cops
Speaker 1: were looking for him, and I was like, because we
Speaker 1: had a bolo out for him. Yeah, he came to
Speaker 1: the job and then where he didn't come to work
Speaker 1: to the station. But then he shows up to DJ
Speaker 1: the party and I'm like, empty, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: There looking for you. But I'm like Empy, it's insane.
Speaker 1: He was a little insane. He was a little saying
Speaker 1: but you know, that was a very It was a
Speaker 1: every dark place for him and saw us, you know,
Speaker 1: but that was the thing, you know, when I told
Speaker 1: him that it was over, just like previous times when
Speaker 1: I told him that it was over for other reasons
Speaker 1: that were far less significant or serious, you know, it
Speaker 1: would bring him to a place where he felt as
Speaker 1: though he didn't want to be here anymore. It was like,
Speaker 1: if I can't have you, if we can't live life together,
Speaker 1: then I don't want to be here. And he meant
Speaker 1: that with every five from the things that visits me,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be him tomorrow. He takes he takes you
Speaker 1: through what that feels like, like what got him to
Speaker 1: that that point, you know what I mean. So um,
Speaker 1: but we've healed from all of that. You're having orgasms. Yes,
Speaker 1: Live Service, thank you so much for coming out for
Speaker 1: the first time. It's been Listen. We've been wanting to
Speaker 1: do time coming. Yeah, but I think this listen literally
Speaker 1: you got that all right. List Service here, Casey