Speaker 1: Everything is very soothing in a Hallmark movie. Yeah, like fires,
Speaker 1: fires are always roaring it, eating is always happening, it,
Speaker 1: tons of hot cocoa. I'm Susie Bannacharam and I'm Jessica Bennett.
Speaker 1: And this is In Retrospect, where each week we revisit
Speaker 1: a cultural moment from the past that shaped us.
Speaker 2: And that we just can't stop thinking about.
Speaker 1: Today, we have a special holiday version of In Retrospect
Speaker 1: where we're going to talk about the past and present
Speaker 1: of Hallmark Christmas movies. Hm, yes, have you ever watched
Speaker 1: a Hallmark Christmas.
Speaker 2: Movie, Susie, I'm proud to say the answer to that
Speaker 2: is no.
Speaker 1: Well, I cannot say the same. I have watched.
Speaker 2: How could I have guessed?
Speaker 1: So many Christmas movies this season that the other day
Speaker 1: Mike walked in on me watching one and said, Mike
Speaker 1: your boyfriend, Mike my boyfriend, and said, how many of
Speaker 1: these have been already watched this season? And I did
Speaker 1: not like the judgment in his voice. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is that tone, mister, No, he was actually laughing.
Speaker 1: He thought it was hilarious, but I feel like some
Speaker 1: judgment about it. So I thought it would be interesting
Speaker 1: to query why I'm so interested or into these movies.
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to hear that. But also, what is
Speaker 2: a Hallmark?
Speaker 3: What makes something? Are these movies produced by Hallmark?
Speaker 2: Like? What am I missing here?
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, this is a great question. Hallmark Christmas movies
Speaker 1: are made by Hallmark.
Speaker 2: Like the card company.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the card company. The maximare on the Hallmark Channel,
Speaker 1: which is where Hallmark Christmas movies are aired.
Speaker 2: What channel is that? Like, that's a channel on tele.
Speaker 1: That's a channel on television as part of the cable package. Yes, okay, and.
Speaker 2: I don't have cable growing up, so okay, yeah that.
Speaker 1: Makes sense, but this is very confusing for you. Okay.
Speaker 1: So actually it started as the combination of two religious
Speaker 1: channels that came together and became a Christian network called
Speaker 1: the Faith and Values Channel.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that makes sense. Why they're like so strident?
Speaker 1: Yes, well they're not actually striding. They're very soothing. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to that.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll get to that.
Speaker 1: And so it started as a religious thing. Then there
Speaker 1: was a rebrand in two thousand and one and that's
Speaker 1: when it became the Hallmark Channel, and the original content
Speaker 1: had very explicitly religious and traditional themes. Okay, And it
Speaker 1: wasn't really until the twenty tens when the channel began
Speaker 1: to be known for these made for TV movies romance comedies,
Speaker 1: and then really it begun to be known for Christmas
Speaker 1: movies in particular when it started this thing called count
Speaker 1: Down to Christmas in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3: Count Down to Christmas coming this October Holy on Hallmark.
Speaker 1: And that is literally like every night to Christmas, they
Speaker 1: premiere I don't know if it's every night, but they
Speaker 1: premiere all the new Christmas movies of that season.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you've been really busy.
Speaker 1: I've been very busy. That's one way of betting it.
Speaker 1: And the idea is that these movies evoke the same warm,
Speaker 1: traditional values that Hallmark greeting cards. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if growing up you ever went to a Hallmark store,
Speaker 1: but I always loved the Hallmark store. They have greeting
Speaker 1: cards and ornaments, and so it's supposed to evoke those
Speaker 1: same feelings in you. And I should say that I'm
Speaker 1: not the only one watching these movies because that's how
Speaker 1: I feel.
Speaker 2: Talking to me. Yeah, I think I'm the minority here.
Speaker 2: People love these.
Speaker 1: To give you an idea of what a big business
Speaker 1: it is. It is literally defying the fate of most
Speaker 1: other cable channels. Hallmark is one of the most popular
Speaker 1: cable channels on television. New York Magazine recently did a
Speaker 1: piece called Nobody told Hallmark Channel that cable is Dead,
Speaker 1: and in it it mentioned that it is not uncommon
Speaker 1: for Hallmark to have the most watched program in all
Speaker 1: of cable on any given night, Wow, especially during the holidays.
Speaker 1: Okay and per Nielsen, Hallmark Channel is the number two
Speaker 1: most watched entertainment channel of twenty twenty three, just behind HDTV,
Speaker 1: but ahead of other channels that people watch a lot,
Speaker 1: like TNT and USA and Food Network. And also in
Speaker 1: the last week of November, they premiered seven brand new
Speaker 1: Hallmark Christmas movies and that pushed the channel to be
Speaker 1: the number two most watched channel across all of cable,
Speaker 1: not just entertainment cable, meaning that it beat Fox News.
Speaker 1: And of those seven movies, six of them were watched
Speaker 1: by more than one point seven million people on their
Speaker 1: premiere night, so that's just the people who watched it
Speaker 1: on the first run. Most of these movies are run
Speaker 1: over and over again, and they've made for this season
Speaker 1: forty original movies just to air in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: So what are they about? Like, is there really that
Speaker 3: much to say? Why are there so many movies?
Speaker 2: What are they about?
Speaker 1: Well, they're all very formulaic, they're all very very similar.
Speaker 1: They have a lot of rules, there's a standard story format.
Speaker 1: Now some of this is starting to change a little
Speaker 1: bit as these shows have become more popular and as
Speaker 1: there's more diversity and inclusion. But the traditional formula is basically,
Speaker 1: this a relatable single, sometimes very recently single, like a
Speaker 1: girl who's just literally broken up with her boyfriend or
Speaker 1: isn't single scandalous, but her boyfriend is a big dumb
Speaker 1: jerk and you hate him right away, and it's clear
Speaker 1: you're supposed to hate him.
Speaker 2: That's always a boyfriend.
Speaker 1: It's always like a boyfriend, yes, And so this single
Speaker 1: girl has lost faith in love. She's pursuing life in
Speaker 1: the big city and somehow she ends up in a
Speaker 1: small town for some reason. She's either going home for
Speaker 1: the holidays. Okay, Sometimes she's a reporter who's working on
Speaker 1: a story about a secret Santa that nobody knows the
Speaker 1: identity of okay, okay. Sometimes she has an accident and
Speaker 1: she has amnesia and she's like God all down and
Speaker 1: she falls in love but she doesn't know who she is. Like,
Speaker 1: it's always some ex case for why she's now in
Speaker 1: this idyllic.
Speaker 2: Town, like snow.
Speaker 1: There's snow everywhere. And a thing that Hallmark actually says
Speaker 1: themselves is that a classic Hallmark Christmas movie has to
Speaker 1: have Christmas in every frame, meaning every single shot the
Speaker 1: movie has to have some element of Christmas, like an
Speaker 1: ornament or a tree or a PUCKI like, there has
Speaker 1: to be something visually that indicates its case.
Speaker 2: So like there's no Jews.
Speaker 1: In well, now there are Jews. Now They've released like
Speaker 1: a few Hallmark movies that are Honka movies. So the
Speaker 1: match maker was right, Hanka on Rye on Hallmark. But
Speaker 1: that is fairly recent. So again we're just talking about
Speaker 1: the basic formula that has existed for years. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about kind of what's happening now later. But so here's
Speaker 1: this girl. She's in this small town and she meets
Speaker 1: a handsome local man, a kind of modern prince charming,
Speaker 1: and almost always he is also single, but sometimes he
Speaker 1: also has an awful girlfriend who doesn't appreciate how sweet
Speaker 1: and perfect he is. And his job is always something
Speaker 1: like baker.
Speaker 2: Or are you living a Hallmark movie?
Speaker 1: I'm kind of living a homework movie. Is a baker
Speaker 1: your Yeah? He really rejects that comparison, because trust I've
Speaker 1: made it.
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, So they're bakers or bakers, or there.
Speaker 1: Are firemen, or they are the owner of the local
Speaker 1: Christmas tree lots. Okay, they're usually small business owners or
Speaker 1: small town kind of charmers. And while she spends time
Speaker 1: with this charming stranger, he reminds her of the simpler
Speaker 1: joys of small town life. So community and warmth and comfort.
Speaker 1: Everything is very soothing in a Hallmark movie. Yeah, like fires,
Speaker 1: fires are always roaring, ice skating is always happening, tons
Speaker 1: of cocoats showering hot co coat like caroling, caroling, there's
Speaker 1: always caroling. So often there's also I just want to say,
Speaker 1: a child involved. Okay, Sometimes the man has a child
Speaker 1: and his wife has passed. They try not to talk
Speaker 1: about divorce a lot, but sometimes he's divorced, and less
Speaker 1: often the woman has a child, and the child is
Speaker 1: always like adorable and precocious, and the way the formula
Speaker 1: works is there's also kind of a formula to the
Speaker 1: story structure. So she gets to the town, she meets
Speaker 1: the stranger somewhere, they start to get to know each
Speaker 1: other a little bit better. There's a near kiss about
Speaker 1: three quarters of the way through the movie.
Speaker 2: Okay, you can time it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then eventually there is like a challenge they face,
Speaker 1: or a challenge to their relationship or a misunderstanding that
Speaker 1: briefly pulls them apart, and then they're brought back together
Speaker 1: by the end. And there is one perfect chaste kiss
Speaker 1: at the end of every movie, and that is the happy.
Speaker 2: Ending, and that's end.
Speaker 1: That's it, and that's the end.
Speaker 2: So wait, tell me some of the ones you've watched
Speaker 2: so far this season.
Speaker 1: The thing is, I can't really tell them all apart,
Speaker 1: so like I won't be able to tell you all the.
Speaker 3: Name, but I've watched so romantic like what it's a
Speaker 3: general plot.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's really a romance component to all of these.
Speaker 1: But I want to say that the fantasy isn't really
Speaker 1: just about romance. I mean, that's certainly part of it,
Speaker 1: but it's also just kind of an idyllic world where
Speaker 1: everybody loves their family, and everyone's really supportive of each other,
Speaker 1: and everything is incredibly optimistic, like it is a world
Speaker 1: that is very different from the world we live in,
Speaker 1: and so there are these rules that govern this world.
Speaker 1: And some of these rules are explicit. Hallmark executives have
Speaker 1: talked about these rules, and some of them are less
Speaker 1: explicit but clear. If you are a consumer of many
Speaker 1: of these films, which I am, so here are some
Speaker 1: of the rules that I have put together for you.
Speaker 1: So it always has to be too conventionally attractive, very
Speaker 1: classically American, traditionally white main characters. In recent years, there's
Speaker 1: been some diversification and race and sexuality, but that's kind
Speaker 1: of the standard setup. And then a lot of the
Speaker 1: stars are not super famous, but they're recognizable from some
Speaker 1: sitcom or teen show you watched as a kid, so
Speaker 1: like Lacey Schever of Party of five fame and Danica
Speaker 1: mckeller from The Wonder Years who played Winnie Cooper. Holly
Speaker 1: Robinson Pete from twenty one Jump Street was the most
Speaker 1: prominent black actress on the network for a long time.
Speaker 1: Now there are others. Even Megan Markle was into Mark
Speaker 1: movies when she was just an actor from suits and
Speaker 1: not married to Prince Harry?
Speaker 3: Do these pay a lot of money? Like this is
Speaker 3: this like good money for actors?
Speaker 1: Yes, actually a lot of actors compare the Hallmark system
Speaker 1: to the old school studio system because actors can sign
Speaker 1: exclusive contracts with these networks. It just means that there's
Speaker 1: steady work, good pay, decent hours. Like it's the kind
Speaker 1: of thing where if you get into the Hallmark system,
Speaker 1: which is actually not easy to do, then you can
Speaker 1: have steady work every year. And these movies shoot fast,
Speaker 1: so it's a very efficient process.
Speaker 2: It's like a journalist doing corporate work on the side
Speaker 2: kind of. It's a fun their art.
Speaker 1: The Christmas movies generally get shot in fifteen days. There's
Speaker 1: like minimal takes. It's really efficient and affordable. Yeah, most
Speaker 1: of them are shot in Canada, so they use existing locations.
Speaker 1: They don't have to use sound stages. So there is
Speaker 1: like a whole industry around this that just churns out
Speaker 1: these Christmas movies and it's a year long process because
Speaker 1: they have to all be made and ready to go.
Speaker 3: And like, if you're an actor, is this the kind
Speaker 3: of thing where you're like, don't put that one on
Speaker 3: my website.
Speaker 1: I think actually a lot of these actors get really
Speaker 1: into it. Like there's an annual convention every year called
Speaker 1: Christmas Con, which I wanted to go to for this episode,
Speaker 1: but they rejected me. They said they didn't have room
Speaker 1: for podcasters this year. So I'm just like, very offended. Wow,
Speaker 1: But a lot of the actors from these movies have
Speaker 1: been posting from Christmas Con, Like Jesse Metcalf, who's one
Speaker 1: of the male stars who used to be an actor
Speaker 1: on Desperate Housewives. He was posting from there just a
Speaker 1: couple of days ago. Chad Michael Murray from One Tree
Speaker 1: Hill is one of.
Speaker 2: The great This is basically a world that I just
Speaker 2: had no idea.
Speaker 1: No idea existed, but it is a whole universe.
Speaker 2: And Okay, so they're proud.
Speaker 1: So they're proud of it. I mean to dismiss them, no,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there are some people who you
Speaker 1: know wouldn't be but I think you know, if you're
Speaker 1: a working actor and it's been a while since you've
Speaker 1: been cast in something, and you get plugged into the system,
Speaker 1: this is a great way to have regular work. And
Speaker 1: I think they all.
Speaker 2: Become a lot of chunky sweaters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they've become friends. It's like uplifting content.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, so okay, so let's go.
Speaker 1: Back to the role. So the rules are the vibe
Speaker 1: has to always be uplifting and a little magical, like
Speaker 1: there's no darkness in this world. The world makes sense here.
Speaker 1: There's no evil, there's no war, there's no bamin. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of nice. So very deliberately, there are no politics.
Speaker 1: The former CEO told The New Yorker for an article
Speaker 1: once that the only thing we promote is pet adoption.
Speaker 1: We make no apologies about that. It's very clearly apolitical.
Speaker 1: And I think that's because the accusation was always that
Speaker 1: they were conservative because they came from a religious background.
Speaker 1: But they're actually trying to stay out of politics. And
Speaker 1: I want to mention another thing which I think makes
Speaker 1: them very soothing, which is there's rarely economic hardship of
Speaker 1: any kind. Like yeah, yeah, small towns and small businesses
Speaker 1: aren't doing great in the real world, but in these
Speaker 1: small towns, the small businesses.
Speaker 3: Detroit businesses on the street shutter or whatever, everything is viable.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's like a challenge like business is down or
Speaker 1: Dad wants to retire and sell the business, but that
Speaker 1: challenge is always met and everything is fine by the
Speaker 1: end of the movie. And another thing that's interesting is
Speaker 1: that there are usually some hyjiinks and disagreements, but they
Speaker 1: literally cannot be too angry. When the New Yorker reporter
Speaker 1: who did that article I mentioned was on set, she
Speaker 1: witnessed a scene where the guy seemed really angry and
Speaker 1: the director was like, cut, like you got to take
Speaker 1: it down a notch, like you're too mad.
Speaker 2: They're not like doxing each other on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Nobody is doxing each other on Twitter. Nobody is having
Speaker 1: like a crying jag and like throwing things. It is
Speaker 1: a very civilized world, okay, and the relationshi are all
Speaker 1: basically healthy. Sometimes there are mad cap misunderstandings, but at
Speaker 1: the root of this are good people who just love
Speaker 1: each other, families who get along. All the children are
Speaker 1: adored and cherished. Parents are either kind of saints or imperfect,
Speaker 1: but only because they're misunderstood. And it's very important to
Speaker 1: note that there's also very little sex in these rightbe
Speaker 1: like just like chaste kisses near kisses, but there's no
Speaker 1: heat in these movies. It's all very safe.
Speaker 2: Do they get a rating?
Speaker 1: No, I mean, if they got a rating, it would
Speaker 1: yeah miss PG. Yeah, but it's I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it would be less than I don't know what less
Speaker 1: than PG is, but it would be done it less
Speaker 1: than PG. And you know, I mentioned the Christmas and
Speaker 1: every frame, and what that means is that there have
Speaker 1: to be heartwarming holiday themes all through the movie. Christmas
Speaker 1: tree decorating, cookie baking, coco, Christmas lights, snowball fights like,
Speaker 1: there have to be a million cliches about Christmas kind
Speaker 1: of thrown in, and then ultimately there's always the happy ending.
Speaker 2: So why do you like these?
Speaker 3: I mean, let's be but this sounds horrible, This sounds
Speaker 3: like so corny.
Speaker 2: Why do you like this?
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a great question. So first of all, yes,
Speaker 1: it's incredibly corny. And obviously I know you well enough
Speaker 1: to know that you hate corny things, so I knew
Speaker 1: that you would find this hilarious but also disturbing. And
Speaker 1: so I have spent a lot of time thinking about
Speaker 1: it in the last couple of weeks as I've been
Speaker 1: thinking about what we're going to talk about, and I
Speaker 1: think for me, it just represents a certain kind of
Speaker 1: Americana and small town life, which as an immigrant, is
Speaker 1: what I thought America was, like that idealized version of
Speaker 1: America is what you imagine America is when you come
Speaker 1: here and your life is nothing like that. You come
Speaker 1: from a world where there certainly is war and politics
Speaker 1: and danger, and your life has just been completely thrown
Speaker 1: into disarray and you're far from your family, like you
Speaker 1: don't have this sweet world, and you imagine that that's
Speaker 1: the world everyone else has. So I think for me
Speaker 1: they represent this kind of comforting idea that there is
Speaker 1: a part of the world that makes sense, right, and
Speaker 1: you know, I.
Speaker 3: Feel it makes a lot of sense until you realize
Speaker 3: unfortunately it's not like it's not.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, what you're saying is is that it's a fantasy,
Speaker 1: which of course it is. So now I obviously know that.
Speaker 1: I mean I think I always kind of inherently knew that.
Speaker 1: But the reason I think it's kind of important around
Speaker 1: the holiday season is I think that's a time where
Speaker 1: people really feel not having those fantasy family life, Like
Speaker 1: if you're someone who doesn't have a big family or
Speaker 1: doesn't have a family you know, or lost your parent
Speaker 1: or whatever. This is a time where you feel very alone,
Speaker 1: you know, like the holidays can feel really isolating, and
Speaker 1: so I think a lot of people just watch these
Speaker 1: movies as a way to feel the warmth that they're
Speaker 1: not getting in their personal lives, right, And I think
Speaker 1: also the formulaic nature is very appealing to me. If
Speaker 1: I'm honest, I don't really have to be watching. It's
Speaker 1: a second screen activity, like I usually just put it on,
Speaker 1: and I know the basic plot points are always essentially
Speaker 1: the same, so I can be doing other things. I
Speaker 1: can be like texting or doing.
Speaker 3: I feel like maybe the few times i've I don't know,
Speaker 3: been in other people's houses where they've been played, they're
Speaker 3: like they're on in the background, and like you can
Speaker 3: go in and out.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like background noise in a way. And
Speaker 1: sometimes they're good, like you're like, oh, this is actually
Speaker 1: kind of entertaining me, and so you dial in. But
Speaker 1: for the most part it's just this sid of soothing
Speaker 1: Christmas background, Like there's.
Speaker 2: Right with like some nice music, yeah.
Speaker 1: Like some Christmas music gets played, some adorable children come
Speaker 1: out in like costumes. You know. It's just like a
Speaker 1: kind of nice vibe to have in the background. It
Speaker 1: kind of makes my brain feel smooth like butter. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's how it feels like. I have a lot of anxiety,
Speaker 1: as you know, and so sometimes I just want to
Speaker 1: watch something that just like irons out all the kinks
Speaker 1: in my brain. But I thought, what would be funny
Speaker 1: would be for me to describe to you the plot
Speaker 1: of the most popular Hamewark Christmas movie of all time,
Speaker 1: because it's fairly deranged in ways that I find really amusing.
Speaker 1: This is definitely a movie I've seen more than once.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever seen it like start
Speaker 1: to finish. Because the other thing about Homemwark Christmas movies
Speaker 1: is I have cable, right, which a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't have. But if you have cable, well, one of
Speaker 1: the benefits of it is that you just happen upon them.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like you're just flipping through channels.
Speaker 2: And you're like, are they on other channels too?
Speaker 1: No, But they did make a deal this year with Peacock,
Speaker 1: and so now some Hallmark movies are available on Peacock,
Speaker 1: and now lots of other people make Christmas movies. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of one of those things where
Speaker 1: if there's nothing else on, I'll just default around Christmas
Speaker 1: to Hallmark and just like have it on in the background.
Speaker 1: So this movie, I can't just like wait to tell
Speaker 1: you all about it. So this movie is called Christmas
Speaker 1: under Wraps and it stars Candice Cameron Beret, who is
Speaker 1: arguably the Queen of Christmas movies. She has been in
Speaker 1: so many of them. She has starred in four of
Speaker 1: the ten most viewed Christmas movies on Hallmark. Okay, this
Speaker 1: movie debuted in twenty fourteen, and it to this day
Speaker 1: holds the record for Hallmark's highest ever broadcast premiere. Like
Speaker 1: it is credited by Hallmark executives as being the breakthrough
Speaker 1: moment for Christmas programming on the channel, and it re
Speaker 1: airs every year. So an important thing to kind of
Speaker 1: understand about the ecosystem is that they make all these
Speaker 1: new movies every year, but then they mix in all
Speaker 1: these old movies that you remember, and that's also kind
Speaker 1: of part of the appeal. It's like when people watch
Speaker 1: Friends over and over again, like it's kind of familiar
Speaker 1: and soothing to have one of these show up. So
Speaker 1: here's the story of Christmas under Wraps. After a breakup.
Speaker 1: Doctor Lauren Brunel played by Candice Cameron Beret is forced
Speaker 1: to move to Alaska for a new job.
Speaker 2: Okay, Alaska.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she's been passed over for a prestigious fellowship
Speaker 1: in Boston and her boyfriend breaks up with her.
Speaker 2: Everything I've worked for my entire life is gone.
Speaker 1: She temporarily accepts an offer to go practice in a
Speaker 1: small town called Garland, Scarland, Alaska. Get it, it's got.
Speaker 2: A Christmas theme.
Speaker 1: No, the towns are never real. Okay, the towns are
Speaker 1: always like these Evergreen or whatever big names, and this
Speaker 1: job is supposed to be temporary while she waits for
Speaker 1: another chance at the Boston fellowship. When she gets to Alaska,
Speaker 1: she meets Andy, who is a handsome local handyman. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Garland, doctrepreneurs. She quickly starts to fall in love
Speaker 1: with Garland, but as Larren becomes more familiar with the town,
Speaker 1: she starts to notice some odd things. Most people in
Speaker 1: this town actually work for. Andy. The adorable handyman she
Speaker 1: met when she arrived, his father, Frank, who owns a
Speaker 1: warehouse business called Holiday Shipping because okay, their last name
Speaker 1: is Holiday, and Frank likes to eat cookies for breakfast.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: And she can't quite figure out what Frank's business exactly
Speaker 1: is beyond shipping, but she starts to get to know
Speaker 1: Andy better and it turns out that used to be
Speaker 1: an architect in Seattle, but he moved home because his
Speaker 1: dad really needs help with the family business.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, what is the family business?
Speaker 1: Donlanta?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Christmas wait, just wait.
Speaker 1: He confides in Lauren that he's ambivalent about his future,
Speaker 1: and here is the almost kissed moment. And then later
Speaker 1: there's an emergency and Lauren is summoned to the holiday home,
Speaker 1: but when she gets there, she realizes it's not a
Speaker 1: medical emergency that she's been summoned for. But there's a reindeer,
Speaker 1: and the reindeer indeed injured Rudy presumably short for Rudolph,
Speaker 1: who is injured. His ankle is injured, and it's a
Speaker 1: crisis because they need him to be well for the
Speaker 1: Christmas eve Dot festival. Okay, okay, So still she's like
Speaker 1: things here are strange, but.
Speaker 2: She's like, I don't get it, I don't care.
Speaker 1: What is happening here? That feels what did it all mean?
Speaker 1: And you know, but she's smart, so she's starting to
Speaker 1: become suspicious something strange as a foot. Well she is
Speaker 1: a doctor, right.
Speaker 2: So okay, and so how to fix Rudy's foot?
Speaker 1: She patches up Rudy's ankle. She does, yes, and everyone
Speaker 1: is extremely grateful, and then some other things happen. I
Speaker 1: won't get into, but it's important to note that somewhere
Speaker 1: in all of this, Andy gets Lauren a Christmas tree
Speaker 1: and they decorate it together.
Speaker 2: This is the best Christmas I've ever had. And then
Speaker 2: they kiss.
Speaker 1: Nope, the kiss doesn't come until the end. It's just
Speaker 1: near kisses until the end. I'm sure they bake some
Speaker 1: cookies or go ice skating. I don't remember all the
Speaker 1: fun Christmas ectoky, but that's like how there are Romance unfolds.
Speaker 1: And then right after all of that comes the challenge.
Speaker 1: Lauren finds out that a spot has opened up in
Speaker 1: Boston after all, So she tells Andy, ok that she's leaving,
Speaker 1: and you know, she can't give up what she's wanted
Speaker 1: her whole life, and they're both really sad. And the
Speaker 1: question here is, Jessica, is this going to be the
Speaker 1: first time that a Christmas movie doesn't have a happy ending.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, but maybe the happy ending is like getting
Speaker 3: her executive shop.
Speaker 1: Okay, you are clearly wrong about that, Like what are
Speaker 1: you even thinking of? The happy ending is never that
Speaker 1: the career girl goes back to her career, right, she
Speaker 1: always discovers that small town life is better than her
Speaker 1: like New York career.
Speaker 2: So wow, okay, so what happens?
Speaker 1: So that's so silly, but obviously I'm wrong. There will
Speaker 1: be a happy ending. Before Lauren can leave, Andy gets
Speaker 1: a call that his father has collapsed, and so they
Speaker 1: rush to be by his side, and Andy is so
Speaker 1: worried about his father's health that he realizes that he
Speaker 1: has to help his dad with the business. Again. No
Speaker 1: one is being explicit about what the business is, right,
Speaker 1: but in seeing him and his dad come together, Lauren
Speaker 1: has a real zay of her own. She's decided she's
Speaker 1: going to stay in Garland. She turns down the fellowship,
Speaker 1: and she goes to find Andy at the Christmas festival
Speaker 1: to tell him, and then they kiss and it is
Speaker 1: a happy ending after all. But one last thing. It
Speaker 1: turns out that Frank is in fact Santa Claus.
Speaker 3: Okay, so does that mean she's I guess she's not
Speaker 3: gonna be Missus Claus.
Speaker 2: Well, she's gonna be a homemaker.
Speaker 1: One day she's gonna be Missus Claus. She's gonna be
Speaker 1: a doctor. And the way we find out that Frank
Speaker 1: is in fact Santa Claus is he comes out in
Speaker 1: a full Santa outfit in a sleigh being led by
Speaker 1: Rudy the reindeer, and then it like goes up into
Speaker 1: the air your way, and that's how the movie ends.
Speaker 3: Are these like okay, like this is like kitch, Like
Speaker 3: this is like ella, wel this is so ridiculous, or
Speaker 3: this is like like I don't get it.
Speaker 2: Where you want to watch?
Speaker 1: That's a great question.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's just like you're trying to get away from
Speaker 3: your family. Well, I mean I think that's some of it,
Speaker 3: and this is something to do.
Speaker 1: Some of it is like you're just trying to look
Speaker 1: for entertainment anywhere you can find it. I think that
Speaker 1: for a lot of people who watch it, Like for me,
Speaker 1: it is kitsch, Like I find it hilarious, Like it's
Speaker 1: unintentionally a comedy for me, right, Like I'm like he's
Speaker 1: stay on a clause like that's the story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, that's like, it's funny when you tell it.
Speaker 1: Right, But I don't know that that's how it's intended,
Speaker 1: but certainly how I receive it. So I think, like
Speaker 1: I would love to hear from people who have different
Speaker 1: reasons why they love these movies. For me, it's always hilarious,
Speaker 1: and the more deranged the storyline, the more I love
Speaker 1: it because I'm just like, what's.
Speaker 2: Happening, Yeah, that's fun. I could see that.
Speaker 1: You can kind of see that, right, And I think
Speaker 1: there are people who putat like Hallmark Christmas games like
Speaker 1: drinking games, where like when something happens, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of ways to make it fun. But I
Speaker 1: think what's interesting is it. Candice Cameron Beret herself is
Speaker 1: like a really interesting part of the Hallmark universe because
Speaker 1: she really is the Queen of Christmas or the Queen
Speaker 1: of Hallmark Christmas. But you know, I don't know how
Speaker 1: much you know about her, but she's quite conservative. She's
Speaker 1: an openly conservative celebrity, obviously of which there are not
Speaker 1: a ton and she's been creating content for the channel
Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight, and her first Hallmark movie
Speaker 1: was called Moonlight and Mistletoe and just FYI, Tom Arnold,
Speaker 1: Wasn't it just okay? But in twenty twenty two, she
Speaker 1: announced that she was ending her contract with Hallmark and
Speaker 1: she was going to go to this other channel called
Speaker 1: the Great American Family Channel, which she claimed was more
Speaker 1: in line with her traditional and religious values. And this
Speaker 1: created a controversy because it seemed very much like a
Speaker 1: veiled way of saying. She rejected that there were now
Speaker 1: LGBTQ themes and more diversity in the stories, and this
Speaker 1: is what she said at the time, my heart wants
Speaker 1: to tell stories that have more meeting and purpose and
Speaker 1: depth behind them. I know that the people behind Great
Speaker 1: American Family were Christians that loved the Lord and wanted
Speaker 1: to promote faith programming and good family entertainment.
Speaker 3: Where they're like some gay uncles in Missletoe and Mischief.
Speaker 2: Holiday Missletoe and whatever.
Speaker 1: So they had started to kind of introduce characters that
Speaker 1: were obliquely gay, like they would have two men who
Speaker 1: were friends. They would never explicitly talk about their being gay,
Speaker 1: but you could kind of get a sense. But at
Speaker 1: this point they make movies where there are two leads
Speaker 1: who are gay and who end up together. There has
Speaker 1: been a push towards more diversity and inclusion on the channel,
Speaker 1: and there was kind of this scandal because at some
Speaker 1: point there was an ad on the channel from a
Speaker 1: wedding registry site where two lesbians kissed, and a conservative
Speaker 1: group started to organize a boycott, and initially they pulled
Speaker 1: the commercial, but then there was a boycott of the
Speaker 1: channel from the other side, and competitors like Netflix and
Speaker 1: other streamers who now make these movies touted that they
Speaker 1: have more LGBTQU diversity. So Hallmark reversed its decision and
Speaker 1: said it would reinstate the advertisements and work with GLAD
Speaker 1: and other LGBTQU groups to have more inclusive programming. All
Speaker 1: of that happened in twenty nineteen, so that was before
Speaker 1: she kind of made the statement that made it clear
Speaker 1: that she wanted more Love of the Lord in her programming.
Speaker 1: And she said this thing which was very coded but clear,
Speaker 1: which is she was like, Hallmark is now a completely
Speaker 1: different network than when I started, thanks to a change
Speaker 1: in leadership by Candace.
Speaker 2: By Candace yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't miss her, but this
Speaker 1: was like a big thing in the Hallmark universe.
Speaker 3: So I think I I mean, I have no connection
Speaker 3: to Hallmark movies whatsoever except for one thing, which is
Speaker 3: that my friends that I grew up with Neil bloodsoe
Speaker 3: we went to high school together.
Speaker 2: He's like a pretty.
Speaker 3: Well known Hallmark actor or like this type of still
Speaker 3: family versus Hallmark whatever, Like he was on very you know,
Speaker 3: he was a successful actor in other realms, and he
Speaker 3: started doing Hallmark movies. He starred at one point in
Speaker 3: something with Winnie Cooper whose name I forget, but who
Speaker 3: you mentioned earlier, Dank and mckeller, Oh yeah, Dank and mckeller.
Speaker 2: And then when this all.
Speaker 3: Was happening, he took a stand and was like, I'm out.
Speaker 3: If you can't support LGBTQ issues, that's not a network
Speaker 3: that I want.
Speaker 2: To be involved in.
Speaker 3: And so there were all these headlines about Neil my
Speaker 3: high school dance tolo date.
Speaker 2: Being the right kind of ally.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I just googled this and you're right, So
Speaker 1: this is actually exactly what we're talking about. Neil, I
Speaker 1: guess had also gone over to Great American Family. So
Speaker 1: basically Great American Family was started by this guy who
Speaker 1: used to run Hallmark, this guy Bill Abbott, who sort
Speaker 1: of created this concept, and after all of this stuff
Speaker 1: happens with the lesbian ad, he abruptly leaves the channel
Speaker 1: in February of twenty twenty, and he starts trying to
Speaker 1: recruit the famous actors of Hallmark to come over to
Speaker 1: Great American Family, which he sort of strategically says is
Speaker 1: going to be more traditional, but never explicitly says that
Speaker 1: it's not going to have inclusion or LGBTQ, etc. So
Speaker 1: when Candice makes these remarks two years later, it becomes
Speaker 1: a controversy, and Neil was, I guess signed on to
Speaker 1: make some films with the Great American Family Channel, and
Speaker 1: he said he would no longer do that, So hopefully
Speaker 1: he's still making Hallmark movies and wants to come on
Speaker 1: and tell us all about that, because I want to
Speaker 1: hear everything about that experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm curious. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. See, now, aren't you more curious about what it's
Speaker 1: like to be part of this world?
Speaker 2: Kind of?
Speaker 1: Not? Really? Well, Neil, I really appreciate you, even if
Speaker 1: your friend Jessica from high school can't understand why.
Speaker 2: No, I appreciate what he did. I just don't know
Speaker 2: that I need to watch the movie anyhow.
Speaker 3: Okay, so is there a movie that you're currently watching
Speaker 3: right now?
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, I don't like always even watch a
Speaker 1: movie to the end. Sometimes I'll just watch take an
Speaker 1: hour of it and finish. Like I'm not like Dvring.
Speaker 2: The movie I gotcha.
Speaker 1: I'm not like, in the middle of a movie, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think if I watched anything last night. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll just sort of flip through channels and sometimes there'll
Speaker 1: be one that I know. There's another famous canvas Cameron
Speaker 1: beret one where she plays twins, like she plays both parts.
Speaker 1: They're sisters that are estranged and they swap lives, and
Speaker 1: for some reason, even though that movie is very bad,
Speaker 1: I love it. So whenever that's on, I watch it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of theme around Royalty, so it'll be
Speaker 1: like small town girl gets asked to be a nanny
Speaker 1: in fake European country like Genovia, you know, and she'll
Speaker 1: go there to be the nanny, and she'll fall in
Speaker 1: love with like her charges brother who happens to be
Speaker 1: the prince, you know. Okay, there's a lot of these
Speaker 1: kind of Yeah, I mean, essentially that's what it is.
Speaker 1: It's a fairy tale about what life could be like
Speaker 1: in a fantasy. I remember once I actually brought this
Speaker 1: up with my therapist, like it was a holiday season
Speaker 1: where I was feeling a little depressed and I was like,
Speaker 1: I just like, why don't I have a family like this?
Speaker 1: And she was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's deranged, Like these are fantasies.
Speaker 1: Nobody has families like this, Like this is not the
Speaker 1: real world. And yeah, I mean honestly, what I thought
Speaker 1: in that moment is I can't believe I people someone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, get out of New York City, you careerist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that? I take it.
Speaker 3: You can take your baker boyfriend with you, because clearly
Speaker 3: he belongs in a small town.
Speaker 2: Open up your little bagel shop.
Speaker 1: And I just want you to know that I do
Speaker 1: want to move to a small town and open up
Speaker 1: a bagel shop. And Mike is like, no, I want
Speaker 1: to live in New York, Like why would I want
Speaker 1: to go to some small town. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: he's just like refusing to participate in my fantasy. But okay,
Speaker 1: I guess that's a happy ending of its own, because
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure if I ended up in some small town.
Speaker 1: I'd be tearing my hair out in like a week.
Speaker 2: So or maybe you would love it, maybe I would
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 1: I think we can leave this episode here. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like you know everything you need to know about
Speaker 1: Hallmark movies? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think I know enough, and I will file this
Speaker 3: away in my head and I'm still never going to
Speaker 3: watch them.
Speaker 1: All Right, Well, I feel like my job here is done.
Speaker 2: Then great work, Happy holidays, Susie.
Speaker 3: Just before we wrap this episode up, I wanted to
Speaker 3: take a moment to acknowledge some of the ideas that
Speaker 3: our listeners have been sending in. So every week we've
Speaker 3: been asking you to tell us what you think we
Speaker 3: should explore, and as we wrap up season one, we're
Speaker 3: getting ready to tackle all of these new subjects for
Speaker 3: season two.
Speaker 2: And we love some of these ideas that have been
Speaker 2: sent in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we've had such great response, and I
Speaker 1: just want you guys to know we read every email
Speaker 1: and every DM and I love all of them. And
Speaker 1: I always say that I kind of want to write
Speaker 1: a thank you note, like a handwritten thank you note
Speaker 1: to all of you. So if you DM me your address,
Speaker 1: I probably will do that. But yeah, let's go so
Speaker 1: over some of these ideas because you know, we have
Speaker 1: great episodes coming up, but hopefully there'll be an opportunity
Speaker 1: to incorporate some of these. Yeah.
Speaker 3: One that I am really excited about came from Beth Lipton,
Speaker 3: who actually sent it a couple of great ones about
Speaker 3: Lilith Fair and the riot girl.
Speaker 2: Era of the nineties. I was always so upset I
Speaker 2: didn't go to Lilith Fair.
Speaker 1: I know too. I mean I have seen Indigo Girls
Speaker 1: in concert like five times, so I feel like it's
Speaker 1: kind of the closest you're going to get to Lill Affair.
Speaker 1: But I am really sad I missed it.
Speaker 3: And there has been a funny TikTok going around recently
Speaker 3: of a young person being like, what there was a
Speaker 3: festival that was all women, So I think good fodder
Speaker 3: for us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also maybe it will inspire someone to make
Speaker 1: another Lill Affair, like I would totally go to that.
Speaker 1: Now that's sent in another good idea about doing something
Speaker 1: around Sandy's transition in Greece, like how she had to
Speaker 1: become a bad girl together die And I love that.
Speaker 1: There's a great thing in here about something I don't
Speaker 1: know about, but I feel like, I should do a
Speaker 1: lot of research on which is Mariah Carey's Glitter Meltdown.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to know everything about that.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is from Maddy Lambert, Yes,
Speaker 2: that's Maddie. We'll look cut up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a good one.
Speaker 3: But all of these are so great and we hope
Speaker 3: people and listeners will keep keep sending them because we
Speaker 3: really do look into them and maybe we'll pursue them.
Speaker 1: So thank you, yeah, thank you so much. We really
Speaker 1: love all of you. This is in Retrospect. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Is there a cultural moment you can't stop thinking about
Speaker 1: and want us to explore in a future episode. Email
Speaker 1: us at Inretropod at gmail dot com, or find us
Speaker 1: on Instagram at in retropod.
Speaker 3: If you love this podcast, please rate and review us
Speaker 3: on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. If you
Speaker 3: hate it, you can post nasty comments on our Instagram,
Speaker 3: which we may or may not delete.
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at Jessica Bennett
Speaker 1: and at suzb NYC. Also check out Jessica's books Feminist
Speaker 1: Fight Club and This Is eighteen.
Speaker 3: In Retrospect is a production of iHeart Podcasts and the Media.
Speaker 3: Lauren Hanson is our supervising producer. Derek Clements is our
Speaker 3: engineer and sound designer. Sharon Attiya is our researcher and
Speaker 3: associate producer.
Speaker 1: Our executive producer from the media is Cindy Levy. Our
Speaker 1: executive producers from iHeart are Anna Stump and Katrina Norvelle.
Speaker 1: Our artwork is from Pentagram, additional editing help from Mary
Speaker 1: Doo and Mike Coscarelli. Sound correction and mastering by Amanda
Speaker 1: Rose Smith. We are your hosts Susie Banacarum.
Speaker 2: And Jessica Bennett. We're also executive producers. For even more,
Speaker 2: check out in retropod dot com. See you next week.