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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema.

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Speaker 3: This is Rob and this is Joe. Were we not

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Speaker 3: saying our last names here? That's a change?

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Speaker 2: Oh you know, no, I guess we should say our

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Speaker 2: last names.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well you're Rob Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. That's it.

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Speaker 2: That sound okay, let's go with that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So it looks like this is our pilot episode.

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Speaker 3: We're recording this here as a test. It may or

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Speaker 3: may not see the light of day, but if you're

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Speaker 3: listening to it, it obviously did.

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Speaker 2: Now. We originally explored the idea of this being a

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Speaker 2: standalone podcast series, but then we realized, now, the perfect

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Speaker 2: place to try and roll this out would be like

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Speaker 2: late night on a Friday, like at midnight. If they'd

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Speaker 2: let us do that. I don't think they can to

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Speaker 2: let us do that, but at any rate, Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is kind of a little bonus episode. It's not core

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Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow your Mind content, but we are featuring

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Speaker 2: it in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind feed on Fridays.

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Speaker 2: I like to think of it as the asexual budding

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Speaker 2: offspring of our science podcast stuff to blow your mind.

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Speaker 2: Where Really, we've frequently over the years brought up various

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Speaker 2: weird movies, generally as a means of sort of illustrating

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Speaker 2: a particular scientific topic or making a particular scientific topic

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Speaker 2: maybe a little more engaging, at least to us. So

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Speaker 2: this is just more of the same, except we're putting

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Speaker 2: the cart in front of the horse here. We're putting

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Speaker 2: the movie weirdness ahead of any other concerns that would

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Speaker 2: otherwise be engaged.

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Speaker 3: That's right, We're putting the jack Palance in front of

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Speaker 3: the horse here. Because for our inaugural episode here we

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Speaker 3: are going to be talking about, without warning, a film

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Speaker 3: from nineteen eighty that is so exquisite. I could not

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Speaker 3: have asked for a better opening episode, Robert, you suggested

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Speaker 3: this film having not seen it yourself, I believe. But

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Speaker 3: when when I laid eyes on the trailer, I knew

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Speaker 3: it was going to be love at first sight, and

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Speaker 3: and my heart was true once I saw it. This

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Speaker 3: film holds up. This is b trash for the ages.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and get a taste for

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Speaker 2: this film. Let's listen to the trailer in its entirety.

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Speaker 4: The Hunting Season has begun. But the Hunter isn't human,

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Speaker 4: only the prey are. It came without warning, like nothing

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Speaker 4: on this earth.

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Speaker 2: Friends, I did.

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Speaker 4: Beyond any known terror, because when it leaves this planet,

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Speaker 4: no one may be left alive.

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Speaker 3: Good time warning. When they start eating you, don't come

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Speaker 3: to me for help.

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Speaker 2: Baby.

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Speaker 3: He came down with a spot he wants to give

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Speaker 3: some of your t is not right now, You and

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Speaker 3: me we are the prize game.

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Speaker 4: The Hunter, the hunting that was no true, the thing

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Speaker 4: that preys on human fear and feeds on human flesh

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Speaker 4: from deepest space. It came, and now man is the

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Speaker 4: endangered species. It came without warning, and now it's coming

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Speaker 4: for you.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: That was something. It's pretty wonderful for a number of

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Speaker 2: reasons we're going to discuss in this episode, but for

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Speaker 2: me personally, one of the things I liked about it

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Speaker 2: is that while while the Internet is a wonderful means

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Speaker 2: of discovering new weird films, you know, everything from b

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Speaker 2: movies and exploitation films to art films and even blockbusters

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Speaker 2: that didn't quite you know, bust the block back in

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Speaker 2: the day, that sort of thing. But this is a

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Speaker 2: film that I discovered the old fashioned Way on a

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Speaker 2: video rental shelf I went to Atlanta's own video drome.

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Speaker 2: I was perusing the horror and science fiction and there

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Speaker 2: it was a videodrome.

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Speaker 3: Is the holy temple of the show. It's been a

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Speaker 3: sight of pilgrimage for us for quite some time. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it's great that they're still operating even during these

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Speaker 3: are dark times by a wonderful sort of exchange system

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Speaker 3: that operates out of a table at the front door.

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Speaker 3: And so you can just walk right up to them

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Speaker 3: and say, give me something disgusting that reminds you of

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Speaker 3: The Uninvited by Graydon Clark, and you may well get

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Speaker 3: without warning.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because this is a directed by great on Clark,

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Speaker 2: all of that film, and we'll we'll touch based on

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Speaker 2: him in a bit. But before we get any further, Joe,

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Speaker 2: do you want to summarize this film for us? Give

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Speaker 2: us a quick breakdown on the plot?

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, the short version is that without warning, this

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Speaker 3: is a movie that came out in nineteen eighty and

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Speaker 3: it's Predator before Predator. When did the Schwarzenegger Predator come out,

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Speaker 3: like eighty seven, eighty eight something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So this is Predator before Predator, except instead of

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Speaker 3: a bug mouth gadget alien with like a laser cannon

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Speaker 3: and dreadlocks, this is a fifty style big head alien,

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Speaker 3: sort of a cross between the creepy clay monsters from

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Speaker 3: Fire in the Sky and then just full camp Martians

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Speaker 3: like the ones in Invasion of the Saucer Men. Big

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Speaker 3: head a large alien compound eye is kind of a

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Speaker 3: screeching a mouth. Does it make a noise? I think

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Speaker 3: maybe at some point the does the Invasion of the

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Speaker 3: Body Snatcher's screech?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes some sort of an animal noise at

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Speaker 2: some point.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah. And so instead of taking place in a

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Speaker 3: vague Central American war zone, this is set somewhere in

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Speaker 3: I think it's supposed to be the rural western US.

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Speaker 3: I would guess rural California. And instead of Arnold Schwarzenegger

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Speaker 3: and his team of commandos, you've got whiny hunters, You've

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Speaker 3: got boy scouts who just sing incessantly, You've got makeout

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Speaker 3: point teenes, and you've got Jack Palance. And Jack Palance,

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Speaker 3: by the way, is a force of nature. In this movie.

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Speaker 3: He plays a hunter. I guess half the characters are

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Speaker 3: supposed to be hunters of some kind or another. We'll

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Speaker 3: get to that more when we talk about the themes

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Speaker 3: and message of the film later on. But Jack Palance

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Speaker 3: is some kind of hunter who likes to kill animals,

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Speaker 3: put their heads on the wall of his gas station,

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Speaker 3: put them in jars, put them in formaldehyde. And when

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Speaker 3: he talks in this film, he is human cocaine. Half

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Speaker 3: of his lines are delivered literally quivering.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a leathery intensity to this performance that,

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Speaker 2: to a certain extent, you would expect from Palants. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: he really brings it. There's not a sense that he

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Speaker 2: missed call and phoned it in.

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Speaker 3: But as for the basic plot, there's an alien who's here.

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Speaker 3: It's hunting humans. It does hunt humans, including some of

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Speaker 3: the actors that we're going to mention in just a minute.

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Speaker 3: As it hunts them, it collects them and puts them

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Speaker 3: in a water utility shed. I guess that's functioning as

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Speaker 3: his temporary like food storage locker. I think there's the

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Speaker 3: implication that the alien is going to eat the people.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if that's ever made entirely clear, but

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Speaker 3: I recall that being suggested.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, there's a lot of wonderful mystery about exactly

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Speaker 2: what the alien is doing and why, which really works

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Speaker 2: but yet also leads you wondering is this for food?

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Speaker 2: It might be for food, or are they trophies perhaps

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Speaker 2: their trophies, or is there something else in play here?

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Speaker 2: And we're just taking our own human practices and sort

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Speaker 2: of holding them up over the extraterrestrial in front of us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so this alien is hunting humans.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't use technology really at all that I can

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Speaker 3: think of there. Like I said, there's no laser cannon,

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Speaker 3: there are no extending wrist blades, there are no magical

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Speaker 3: flying circular saw discs. Instead, it uses what I would

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Speaker 3: call a jellyfish shuricken. It throws these little biological creatures

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Speaker 3: that attach to people and then stab into the people

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Speaker 3: with their tentacles and make the people bleed and then

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Speaker 3: kill them. Is that about right?

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Speaker 2: That pretty much? I like to think of them as

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Speaker 2: fresh frisbees, but I think murder pancakes would also.

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Speaker 3: Suffice frisbees from the seafood market.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So basically, this tall, big headed alien, which, by

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Speaker 2: the way, I want to stress this is a nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighties movie, a nineteen eighty film, which is key because

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Speaker 2: you certainly expect that kind of a big headed alien

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Speaker 2: in these older in decades pro prior, especially stuff like

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Speaker 2: outer limits and so forth. But this is eighty. There

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Speaker 2: is a Star Wars beach blanket that shows up in

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Speaker 2: the film, and so there's something about the weirdness of that, Like,

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Speaker 2: this creature is not only from a different world, he's

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Speaker 2: from a different cinematic world, so he feels even more

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Speaker 2: the outsider, but unlike those other cinematic big headed aliens. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's throwing these flesh frisbees around, and if one of

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Speaker 2: these flesh frisbees attaches to your flesh, you're probably doomed.

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Speaker 2: You have, like it seems like a few seconds in

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Speaker 2: the movies, time to whip out a bowie knife and

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Speaker 2: cut that sucker free. Otherwise you're done for.

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Speaker 3: Though nobody seems to have that insight except Jack Palance himself.

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Speaker 3: Everybody else who gets hit by one of the fresh frisbees. Wait,

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Speaker 3: are we going with fresh frisbees or flesh frisbees?

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Speaker 2: Either way, fresh flesh frisbees.

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Speaker 3: Okay, one of the jellyfish meat frisbees attaches to you,

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Speaker 3: Everybody else just goes h and then goo comes out

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Speaker 3: of them and they fall over. But Jack Palance, yeah,

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Speaker 3: of course he whips out his knife because I guess

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Speaker 3: he's got more grit than any of the other ones,

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Speaker 3: and he has the courage and the resolve to just

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Speaker 3: stab right in there and get it off, like he's

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Speaker 3: shucking an oyster.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there is very much. There's an oyster shucking

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Speaker 2: sense to these things. Seeah, it's never explained if the

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Speaker 2: thing is the flesh frisbee it kills you so fast

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Speaker 2: because it's like draining your essence or sucking your blood out,

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Speaker 2: or if it's like a toxin situation. But it seems

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Speaker 2: to work really well, and the movie does a good

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Speaker 2: job of conveying that sense of danger.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I got the sense of a toxin from

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Speaker 3: it because the flesh frisbee, the fresh flesh frisbee, is

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Speaker 3: also very greasy. You know, it's like got this ooze

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Speaker 3: that when Jack Palance stabs into it with his linoleum

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Speaker 3: knife or whatever, it produces this oleaginous extrusion that is

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it looks like it would not come

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Speaker 3: out with water alone. You would need you know, goo

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Speaker 3: gone or something to get rid of it, and we'll

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Speaker 3: come back to that in just a little bit when

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Speaker 3: we explore some monster science. But maybe first we should

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Speaker 3: look at a cast of characters and associated artisans.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's start at the top. I guess with

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Speaker 2: director Greaton Clark not to be confused with tad artists

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Speaker 2: great Anis and I have personally made that confusion, confusing

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Speaker 2: these two. But Grayton Clark is perhaps best known, I

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Speaker 2: think for directing Angel's Brigade back in nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 2: but also the MST three k riffed Final Justice with

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Speaker 2: Jodn Baker back in nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's the one with a dyspeptic Jodon Baker and

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Speaker 3: he's running around Malta, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Cowboy. It has some wonderful There's this one

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Speaker 2: shot in that film where he has his hand on

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Speaker 2: his hip and they're shoot it like between his arm

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Speaker 2: and the side of his Torso it's one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite bizarre shooting choices I've ever seen in a film.

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Speaker 3: I also recall a joke about a felonious monk in it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So Grayton Clark directed another film that came out

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Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty seven, which that might be the same

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Speaker 3: year that Predator came out, or maybe Predator was eighty nine,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. In eighty seven, Graydon Clark made the

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Speaker 3: movie Uninvited. I keep wanting to call it the Uninvited.

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Speaker 3: I think there's no article. It's just Uninvited, which is

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Speaker 3: about a mutant cat that gets aboard a yacht with

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Speaker 3: klu Gooliger and George Kennedy and a bunch of some

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Speaker 3: more makeout point teens.

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Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, I haven't seen that one yet, but it's

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Speaker 2: it's definitely on my list for this October.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Robert, it is a top tier creature film. You've

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Speaker 3: got to see Uninvited. In fact, that should be a later,

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Speaker 3: later addition to the show because it is. It is

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Speaker 3: a creature film like none other. It is really unparalleled genius.

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Speaker 3: It Dwelleth at the top of the creature film Zigarat.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, okay, so we got Clark on board.

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Speaker 2: Here another key individual makeup artist Greg Cannum. I now

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Speaker 2: I should know that that sometimes Rick Baker name is

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Speaker 2: attached to this film. Apparently he was involved in the

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Speaker 2: film early on and actually made the alien head and

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Speaker 2: designed some of the effects and then handed duties off

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Speaker 2: to fellow FX makeup with Greg Cannum and Canum ends up,

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Speaker 2: you know, completing everything. Canum is another superstar of special

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Speaker 2: effects makeup. He went on to work on everything from

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Speaker 2: Bromstoker's Dracula and Highlander two to most recently. I believe

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Speaker 2: he was involved in that Christian Bale Dick Cheney makeup

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Speaker 2: for that movie.

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Speaker 3: Wece Oh wow, wow, Okay, well I see the through line. Actually,

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Speaker 3: did he do the old man makeup for Connor MacLeod

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Speaker 3: and Highlander two? And did he do the old man

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Speaker 3: makeup for Gary Oldman in bram Stoker's Dracula and the

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Speaker 3: old man makeup for Christian Bale and Vice?

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Speaker 2: I would bet that that is the case.

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Speaker 3: Yes, three extraordinary works, each of each of their own genre,

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Speaker 3: as long as you consider that the stuff they put

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Speaker 3: on Christoph Lambert is supposed to be oily looking and funny.

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Speaker 2: Now, of course, the thing about effects in a film

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Speaker 2: like this is they can look amazing, but it also

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Speaker 2: comes down to how you shoot them and indeed how you

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Speaker 2: light them. Oh, and that leads to our next future

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Speaker 2: superstar that was involved in this picture.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Dean Coundy. So Dean Coundy is a legendary cinematographer

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Speaker 3: and director of photography. He's a member of the ASC.

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Speaker 3: If you just think about a movie that is effortlessly

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Speaker 3: visually absorbing, something that is constantly pleasing and interesting to

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Speaker 3: look at without really calling attention to itself as flashy photography,

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Speaker 3: and I think that there is a good chance that

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Speaker 3: you're watching a Dean Coundy movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, I have to say with this film, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't start off feeling like Cundy's presence is there because

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Speaker 2: early on in the film, everything is in just stark daylight.

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Speaker 2: You wake up late and arrive in this movie around

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Speaker 2: noon in Littel, California, so everything has hungover to yeah,

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Speaker 2: a little bit hungover. Everything's just super bright. It looks

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Speaker 2: like it's probably hot and you should maybe be in

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Speaker 2: a library somewhere or you want to crawl back into

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Speaker 2: a trailer or something. So you know, that's the first

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Speaker 2: section of the film. But eventually the sun goes down,

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Speaker 2: and when the sun goes down in this movie, Kundy's

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Speaker 2: lighting comes up, and that's when everything begins to take

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Speaker 2: on an entirely new feel because that's when we see

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Speaker 2: more and more of the monster, but then we also

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Speaker 2: see more and more of these kind of and really

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Speaker 2: at times monstrous character actor faces that are also lit

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Speaker 2: up just so well. Some of the best scenes in

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Speaker 2: the film are just character actors well lit.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. I would actually go

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Speaker 3: disagree just a little bit that I think there's some

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Speaker 3: really good photography and the film has a good look

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Speaker 3: even in some of the daylight scenes. I definitely agree

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Speaker 3: that it became more interesting to look at once you

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Speaker 3: get to the nighttime. But there are a couple of

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Speaker 3: daylight scenes that remind me of scenes in Halloween. Of course,

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Speaker 3: Dean Cundy famously worked with John Carpenter on movies like

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Speaker 3: Halloween and the Thing you Remember in Halloween how there

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Speaker 3: will be these scenes that are just in broad daylight,

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Speaker 3: and it'll be a creepy wide shot with Michael Myers

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Speaker 3: standing somewhere in the distance and not really moving or

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Speaker 3: doing anything all that menacing. He's just there in the

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Speaker 3: mid ground background. And those are I think some of

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Speaker 3: the most effective shots in Halloween. They really color how

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Speaker 3: you experience the film. There are shots like that in

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Speaker 3: Without Warning too. There's like a shot where a hunter

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Speaker 3: is looking around at a field just with kind of

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Speaker 3: like dead grass and overgrown weeds, and there is some

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Speaker 3: figure with a large head just kind of standing in

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Speaker 3: the distance behind the tall grass, not moving, and I

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Speaker 3: thought it was an incredibly effective shot for such a

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Speaker 3: low grade movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I do admit that some of those daylight

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Speaker 2: scenes are creepy in that they convey that sense of

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Speaker 2: the terror that stalks in the daylight is perhaps even

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Speaker 2: more dangerous than that which stalks at night.

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Speaker 3: But I agree in general Dean Coundy he's just got

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Speaker 3: the magic touch, and it's especially magic once night comes

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Speaker 3: on and he's messing around with lighting. There are scenes

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Speaker 3: that are filmed inside a house, a sort of a

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Speaker 3: hunting cabin where there's a sudden boo scare where the

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Speaker 3: alien pops out from the corner of a room and

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Speaker 3: I think points with his finger. Very again, very invasion

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Speaker 3: of the body snatcher's style, but it's a very effective

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Speaker 3: boo scare. Actually.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I have to throw in that the Shout Factory

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Speaker 2: Scream Factory edition of this movie that came out on

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Speaker 2: DVD and Blu Ray several years back has some special features,

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Speaker 2: and one of them is Kundy talking about the film

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Speaker 2: and it's really insightful. He for instance, brings up the

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Speaker 2: fact that the monster costume looked really good and you

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Speaker 2: had this maybe temptation to want to show a lot

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Speaker 2: of it, but he held back. And you know, you

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Speaker 2: depend on a little bit more shadow and mystery. So

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Speaker 2: there are certain details on that monster head that you

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Speaker 2: just don't necessarily get in the final feature, Like it

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Speaker 2: has kind of compound eyes, yes, and you never complete

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Speaker 2: I don't think you ever get a sense of that

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Speaker 2: in the film, But ultimately you don't need it because

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Speaker 2: great costume plus great lighting equals great experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, the monster is often in shadow, and

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Speaker 3: this actually works to great effect. Again, it's a common

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Speaker 3: feature you see when people are talking about Dean Kundy

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Speaker 3: movies on the internet. I think a lot of times

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Speaker 3: they don't even know that they're The reason they're saying

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Speaker 3: this is that it's a Dean Kundy movie. But you

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Speaker 3: see this thing in reviews over and over, a sentence

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Speaker 3: like this trashy b movie is much more watchable than

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Speaker 3: it has any right to be. I think it's that's

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Speaker 3: just Dean. That's Dean work and his stuff, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of it has to do with lighting. And good

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Speaker 3: framing and pleasant cinematography. I don't know if pleasant's the

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Speaker 3: right word, but it's interesting to look at, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's visually not boring.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of visually not boring, we've already touched on Jack

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Speaker 2: Palance's presence in this and I think one of the

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Speaker 2: key things about Jack Palance again, the intensity is great,

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Speaker 2: but there is an inherent weirdness that Palance brings to

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Speaker 2: any picture, whether you're looking at a blockbuster film that

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Speaker 2: he was in. You know, if you're looking at you

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Speaker 2: could be looking at City Slickers or Batman or Shane

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Speaker 2: or Outlaw of Gore or anything like when he shows up, Like,

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Speaker 2: if there's nothing else weird about the film, Palance is

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Speaker 2: the weirdness.

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Speaker 3: It's like he's always just about to start telling you

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Speaker 3: about his erotic model train hobby. It's just he's got

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Speaker 3: secrets and they're bursting out, they're about to leak out

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Speaker 3: of his face.

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Speaker 2: I should also add that Palance has this kind of

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Speaker 2: captain ahab vibe throughout the film too, so you're never

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Speaker 2: really sure if you can trust him him. You're not

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Speaker 2: really sure if you can trust the character. And I

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Speaker 2: think there's there's something about that that Palance brings to

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Speaker 2: most films, like you look, just look at him, and

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Speaker 2: this is not leading man, this is not the hero.

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Speaker 2: This is a potential villain at least. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he really feels like this tweener character.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. You walk into his gas

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Speaker 3: station and he starts talking to you about hunting and

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Speaker 3: that sort of thing. You don't know if you can

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Speaker 3: rely on him when he later shows up in the

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Speaker 3: dark with a gun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, one of the beautiful things about this film

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Speaker 2: is that Jack Palance is not the only creepy old

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Speaker 2: man character played by an established character actor, because we

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Speaker 2: also have Martin Landau in this picture.

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Speaker 3: No, they really swung for the bleachers, I mean with

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Speaker 3: the casting here. So it's got Martin Landel. Also Martin Landel,

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Speaker 3: I'd say one of my favorite old character actors. He

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Speaker 3: gives one of the best movie performances of all time

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Speaker 3: playing Bello Legosi and Tim Burton's ed Wood. I've kind

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Speaker 3: of you know, I hate to talk smack, but I've

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Speaker 3: kind of gotten tired of Tim Burton movies in the

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Speaker 3: modern era. But when you go back to some of

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Speaker 3: the Tim Burton stuff from the nineties, it's so lively

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Speaker 3: and fantastic, and Edwood is one of the best examples

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Speaker 3: of that. Of course, it's about a schlock movie maker himself.

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Speaker 3: What's his name, Edward? No, no, no, I mean no,

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Speaker 3: who plays Edwood? What's the actor? The actor Johnny Depp?

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, yeah, Johnny dep Yeah, yeah, sorry.

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Speaker 3: Johnny Depp plays Edwood. And of course, late in life, Edwood,

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Speaker 3: the schlock filmmaker, actually did form a relationship with the

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Speaker 3: great actor Bella Lagosi and cast him in some of

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Speaker 3: his films, and this is portrayed in the movie with

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Speaker 3: with Martin Landau playing Bella Lagosi as a kind of tired,

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Speaker 3: washed up, ornery version of himself.

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Speaker 2: A quick note, Martin Landau has a lot of vampire

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Speaker 2: in the family, because not only did he play Bella Lagosi,

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Speaker 2: but his daughter Susan Finch was one of the producers

403
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Speaker 2: of brom Stokers Dracula, and his other daughter Juliet played

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Speaker 2: Drusella on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we've looked that up before when we were watching Buffy. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I remember, we discovered that fact and it was just

407
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Speaker 3: a delight. Martin Landau is so lovable as Bella and

408
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Speaker 3: even in this movie where he's not playing a lovable character,

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Speaker 3: he's somehow lovable anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess it's more of a like his

411
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Speaker 2: character goes the way you really expect Palance's character to go,

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Speaker 2: because he plays this character named Sarge who's a like

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Speaker 2: an army vat. I guess we're supposed to believe, and

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Speaker 2: he we learned increasingly learned that he has some some

415
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Speaker 2: serious psychological baggage. And so even though he is aware

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Speaker 2: that there's some sort of alien presence in the local

417
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Speaker 2: area causing mischief, he heaps like additional conspiracy theory on

418
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Speaker 2: top of that additional psychotic thinking where he believes also

419
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Speaker 2: that the alien might be in disguising itself with various

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Speaker 2: people that they you know, there's a real conspiracy going

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Speaker 2: on when there isn't, but it may make for it's

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Speaker 2: sort of a sort of a surprise villain in the film.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's he's he plays the unfortunate role of like

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Speaker 3: the teens. Okay, maybe we should actually summarize the plot

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Speaker 3: a little bit more to get up to those points. So, so, like, uh,

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Speaker 3: it starts off with there are a pair of hunters

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Speaker 3: who are out hunting. There's this older hunter played by

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Speaker 3: Cameron Mitchell we can talk about in a minute. And

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Speaker 3: then he's got this younger son with a mustache who

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Speaker 3: doesn't like hunting and doesn't want to be outdoors and

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Speaker 3: it's just whining. And then they both get killed by

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Speaker 3: the alien. Okay, it's your classic, you know, prolog a

433
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 3: slaughter in a horror movie, right. And then you've got

434
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 3: the makeout point teens who show up in a van. They're,

435
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: you know, the classic teens from the city. They want

436
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: to go swimming at the lake and so they're hanging

437
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: out in their bathing suits in their van. They stop

438
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 3: at the gas station that I believe belongs to Jack

439
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 3: Palance to get gas presumably, but they end up going

440
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 3: in the bathroom and running into Martin Landau as Sarge,

441
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 3: who it's kind of creepy, and then just disappears. And

442
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 3: then they make it to the lake and then the

443
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 3: slaughtering starts. The alien praise on one of the one

444
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: couple of the teens, and then the other couple of

445
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 3: teens run for help at a local bar, and then

446
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 3: once they're at the bar, they run into Sarge and

447
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 3: they're saying there's an alien trying to kill us, and

448
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 3: Sarge believes them, but unfortunately he also I think, ends

449
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: up believing that they are aliens themselves.

450
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is ultimately a clever idea, like having the

451
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: two old men, creepy old men that you run into.

452
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: One is going to be more more of a benefit

453
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 2: than the other by far right. But Landau does a

454
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: great job in this, brings a real kind of crazy

455
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: intensity to it. And you know, I don't know that

456
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: I remember seeing him play as much of like a

457
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: deranged villain character before in a film. A lot of

458
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 2: the things I'd seen him in he was more of

459
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: a really more of a leading man or hero. I

460
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 2: finally remember him on the seventies TV show Space nineteen

461
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: ninety nine, which was rerun like crazy at one point

462
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: in the on the Sci Fi Channel.

463
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 3: He's actually in a really great old episode of The

464
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 3: Twilight Zone where I believe he plays some kind of

465
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: Eastern Bloc agent who's trying to defect in one episode,

466
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 3: and he is being pursued by assassins in the company

467
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: that he's trying from the country that he's trying to

468
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 3: defect from, and they have booby trapped his hotel room

469
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: with a bomb, and so it's his job to try

470
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 3: to figure out where the bomb in the room is.

471
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 3: And it's a nice tight little bottle episode.

472
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: All right. So Landau's great in this, But let let's

473
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 2: talk about some of the other actors here. You have

474
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: Kevin Peter Hall playing the monster, the Hunter itself, and

475
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: Hall is a legendary monster player who most ironically went

476
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 2: on to play the Predator in both Predator one and two.

477
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 3: So this is where things almost get kind of suspicious,

478
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 3: and you wonder, like, I don't know about the screenwriter

479
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 3: who wrote Predator, but did they actually watch this movie?

480
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 3: Were they actually just ripping it off?

481
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I think we'll get into

482
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 2: that a little bit when we discussed the ideas behind it,

483
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: sort of the mythic underpinnings of the film. But maybe

484
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: Kevin Peter Hall also played some other monsters during his time.

485
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 2: He sadly died in nineteen ninety one, but before then

486
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: he played the mutant Bear in the nineteen seventy nine

487
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: film Prophecy. He also played Harry and Harry in the

488
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: Henderson's Heart Eyes Bulging, Yeah, Yeah, and he was Big

489
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: John in Big Top Peewee. Yeah, so famously a very

490
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 2: tall actor, great you know, great presence for creature type roles.

491
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: And you know what I got to say, his body

492
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: performance as the Predator in the Predator film kind of

493
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: makes it. I know, originally they had cast Jean Claude

494
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 2: van Dam to play the Predator and no offense to

495
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: Jean Claude van Dam, but I don't know if that

496
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 2: would have been as effective in the movie, especially standing

497
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: next to Arnold Schwarzenegger, like the aliens literally smaller than him. Yeah,

498
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 2: Like the stature is key, I think.

499
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 3: But also no, he's got a great physicality in the

500
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 3: role too, like the way he you know, moves his

501
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 3: arms and his stance and all that. He really knew

502
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 3: how to play a non speaking role.

503
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 2: Now, this movie also gave us a key cinematic debut

504
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: the Ginger baby Face himself, David Caruso.

505
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: David Caruso, So he plays one of the makeout point

506
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 3: teenes in this He's one of the ones that unfortunately

507
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: does not make it all the way to the bar.

508
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 3: He and his girlfriend are swimming in the lake. I

509
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 3: think the last time we see them, they're literally on

510
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: a towel getting ready for some makeout action and then

511
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: they just end up later in the waterworks shed. But

512
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: so he is, he's very ginger, and he's wearing shorts

513
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 3: in this movie that are so short they insert the

514
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: axis of time and space. I'm like, I can't believe

515
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 3: that people once wore shorts that short.

516
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. He would, of course go on

517
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: to just make a career out of playing mostly cops

518
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: and detectives and occasionally criminals who basically seem like cops.

519
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: But that's his point. He was only twenty four years

520
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: old and he just plays a horny teen who gets

521
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: himself killed by an alien.

522
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. But then also we have a veteran character actor,

523
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: Cameron Mitchell, who I mentioned that earlier. He's in the prologue.

524
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 3: He's one of the hunters who gets killed at the

525
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 3: beginning of the movie. And I must admit, the whole

526
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 3: time I was watching him in the prologue, I thought

527
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: he was Jack Palance because he kind of looks like him.

528
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: He has his face does a very similar thing to Palances, like,

529
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: you just do not trust it. You know that something

530
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: is up when Cameron Mitchell like Locke's eyes with you.

531
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: For fans of Mystery Science Theater three thousand. Cameron Mitchell

532
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: is maybe best known for playing the Santa Claus guy

533
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: in Space Mutiny. He's the old man with the white beard.

534
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's one of the Ultimately, I feel like

535
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: it's such a deserved because that was probably the first

536
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: thing I saw him in and where in which I

537
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: recognized him as Cameron Mitchell. But generally he just plays

538
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: heavies and villains. And so if you watch most of

539
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: his work from before Space Mutiny, those are the kind

540
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: of characters he plays, like dangerous men, unsavory characters. And

541
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: and here again he plays an unsavory character who is

542
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: at one point just going to murder his own son

543
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: because he doesn't like hunting in the outdoors.

544
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: Because he doesn't like hunting. That is that is the

545
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 3: reason we're given.

546
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. But anyway, Cameron Mitchell always of an interesting presence

547
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: in a film he worked. He worked with Mario Bava

548
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: a lot, for example. But I have also found that

549
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: nobody dies ten minutes into a film quite like Cameron Mitchell.

550
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: He has pulled this in other films.

551
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 3: He's got a real dirty rat face.

552
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, a few other just older actors have noted

553
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: here Larry Storch shows up as a scout master. Neville

554
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: Brand plays one of the drunks in the bar, and

555
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: he has a He's another one of these character acts

556
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: with just a real landslide of a face, just a

557
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: total character actor, who, by the way, played the killer

558
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: in Toby Hooper's Eating Alive from seventy six.

559
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 3: Oh, the movie with the Gator Hotel.

560
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: I think that's the one. Is like the cover is

561
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: like he it's it's the cover is just a Neville

562
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 2: Brand with a big sickle or something. Yeaheah.

563
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: I think that's right. I could be wrong, but yeah,

564
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: so so he's great. I must say one of the

565
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: other teens, the male teen who survives longer into the movie.

566
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: I hate to bring politics into it, but it's Scaramucie.

567
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: He's baby Scaramoucie. That's exactly what he looks like. Maybe

568
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 3: sort of a cross between him and Casper van Deen.

569
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 3: He's got that that Van Den, sort of like a

570
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: forest creature.

571
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: I I have to say that both of the teens

572
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 2: that last the longest in the film, those actors, I

573
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: think were mainly stunt workers, but I thought they did

574
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: a fine job as far as is like teen leads

575
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: in a horror movie from nineteen eighty go. I have

576
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: no problem with them at all. I thought they did

577
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: a pretty good job.

578
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, neither of them appears to have done all that

579
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 3: much else. The girl who sort of becomes the final

580
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: girl in the movie. She is played by an actress

581
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 3: named Tara Nutter, who I saw was also in some

582
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 3: movie with Ron Howard about an evil company that's poisoning farmland.

583
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 3: M Okay, yeah, not a hugely extensive acting career. Well,

584
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: maybe now we should get infuriatingly granular about the physical

585
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: reality imagined by this film.

586
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: Yes, it's time for a little monster science, because ultimately,

587
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: this is often the case if you have a suitably

588
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: weird creature, monster, or even just monstrous scenario in a film,

589
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: there's we always found that there's generally something in nature

590
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: that is as weird, if not weirder. And this is

591
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: the same it's gonna be said about this film. So

592
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: we already touched on the fact that, unlike the predator,

593
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: this hunter doesn't use technology to hunt its prey. No,

594
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: it uses other organisms. It uses flesh, frisbees, I mean,

595
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: presumably they're other organisms. I guess it's possible that it

596
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: is like hatching these from its chest and then collecting

597
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 2: them in its purse or satchel and then flinging them out.

598
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: But I think the predominant interpretation, the fair interpretation, would

599
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 2: be that these are other organisms that it has. Maybe

600
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: it raises them in a tank somewhere, Maybe it goes

601
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: to some weird moon and collects them like a mushroom harvester.

602
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: But at any rate, it comes to Earth with a

603
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: sack of these things looking for a good hunt. Yeah.

604
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, the jellyfish shirocin as I mentioned, I think maybe

605
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 3: you could think of them as technology, but they're definitely

606
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 3: not like inert like mechanical technology. If there are technology

607
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 3: at all, their biotechnology, these things are definitely alive in

608
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 3: some way. They use They're full of oleaginousts, you know, substances.

609
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 3: They got like little tentacle that poke out. They squeal

610
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: I think when you stab them. So they're definitely alive

611
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 3: in some way. And yeah, I was curious about the

612
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: same thing. Are these like part of him part of

613
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: the Hunter in some way? We don't. I don't think

614
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: we ever see them come off of his body in

615
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 3: the movie. He just throws them.

616
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, they come out of a satchel or purse.

617
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so it makes me think maybe there's some

618
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: kind of organism that he has collected from the natural

619
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 3: world on his home planet, or like you say, like

620
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 3: a moon or something. They made me think. Actually, I

621
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 3: recall back in the very first half Life game, there

622
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 3: was a weapon you could get. There were basically these

623
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: little alien rats and I don't remember exactly what they

624
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 3: were called, but you get like a bag of these

625
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: alien rats and you could kind of throw them into

626
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: a room and they'd run around and attack whatever was

627
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 3: in the room. But if you ran into the room yourself,

628
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: you were also vulnerable to them. They could like turn

629
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 3: around and attack you. And I wondered if the same

630
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 3: thing would be true of the flesh frisbees in this movie,

631
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 3: Like could they turn against their master. I don't think

632
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: we see a character try to employ that method, but

633
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 3: we never see it work.

634
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, she didn't really have a good thrown arm on her.

635
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 3: No. So one thing about these projectiles that I was

636
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: looking for biological parallels to is the fact that they

637
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: are so obviously slimy and oleaginous. Right, they look greasy.

638
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 3: You get repeated close ups of the slime and the

639
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: mucus they produce, and it looks oily to me. It

640
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 3: looks like you'd need some good soap or something to

641
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: get it off. And as a point of comparison in

642
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 3: the natural world, I do want to mention a very

643
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: alarming grease throwing animal which is a type of petrol,

644
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 3: a kind of bird of the southern half of the

645
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 3: world which projects a greasy slime vomit against other birds

646
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 3: as a defensive tactic. The most the bird best known

647
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 3: for this is a type of bird called full mars,

648
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 3: where they will spit out of their mouth a type

649
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 3: of stomach oil that if it gets on the feathers

650
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 3: of an attacking birds an eagle type predator, it makes

651
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: it undercuts the feathers ability to be waterproof and it

652
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: hurts their ability to fly. So birds have actually died

653
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: because they were spit on with this mucous vomit oil

654
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 3: stuff from the full mar's stomach. They were in fact

655
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: like cases I was reading of where birds like auks

656
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 3: were put in an enclosure with a full mar and

657
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 3: then got vomited on and died. Oh wow, so you

658
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 3: don't want this oil on you. I was also reading

659
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 3: in a post on Scientific American about how sometimes the

660
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: chicks of these full mars will just basically spit this

661
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 3: oil at anything that gets close to them, including their

662
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: own parents, and they have to like mature out of

663
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 3: that over time, and the parents apparently can defend themselves

664
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 3: by preening, by removing it, you know, from their feathers

665
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: with their beaks. Yeah.

666
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: I'm looking at a picture of one of these right now,

667
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: and it's like a vile orange grease that seems to

668
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: be flying out of this creature's mouth.

669
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 3: You don't want to get the goo on you. And

670
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 3: just like in the movie, you don't want to get

671
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 3: the goo on you. But it also is much more

672
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: than goo. It's an organism in itself. And I was

673
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 3: trying to think, you know, are there any animals could

674
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: I could find examples of that threw a more complex thing,

675
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 3: like like the flesh frisbees in this movie that actually

676
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: does something. I was having trouble finding good examples of

677
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 3: something that actually throws something more than just an object

678
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 3: from its environment or a liquid from its body.

679
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, offhand, I can't think of a good example of

680
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: that either. Yeah, generally animals are going to manipulate you know,

681
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 2: it's like sand or dirt shell that sort of thing.

682
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 2: But one example that I came across that's probably the

683
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 2: best example of an organism using organisms as some sort

684
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 2: of a tool or indeed some sort of a weapon,

685
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: and that is to look at the boxing crab or

686
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: pom pob crab found in the genus Libya. These are

687
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 2: these are little guys. These are like two centimeters or

688
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: point seven inches wide, so they're not very big crabs.

689
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: But they have this wonderful adaptation where they will they

690
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: will collect or acquire and that's part of the mystery,

691
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: these little anemonies. And they'll have one in each claw

692
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: and they'll brandish them almost like a pair of nunchucks

693
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: or something. They will they'll wave them around when they're doing,

694
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: you know, various displays for other crabs. But they also

695
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: seem to use them to collect food. And there's a

696
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: mutualism in play here because the anemy gets you know,

697
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: it's it's far more mobile if a crab is carrying

698
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 2: it around. But I was looking at a twenty thirteen

699
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: study from Barilan University and they were really getting into

700
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: how do they acquire these particular anemonies, and they found that,

701
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: for instance, if they lose their anenemy, they may steal

702
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 2: one from somebody else. If they have only one, they'll

703
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 2: rip it in half so that they have two. And

704
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: that particular study, they were looking at one variety of

705
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: boxing crab, and they pointed out that the variety of

706
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 2: anemony that the crab used had not been found yet

707
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: in the wild. Now, that could just mean we just

708
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: had not found it yet. There are a lot of

709
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: organisms in the wild that we have not fully charged, obviously,

710
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: But the other possibility is that it is essentially a domesticated,

711
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 2: fully cultivated species that has henceforth gone extinct in the wild,

712
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: and it is only carried on by these crabs that

713
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: use them as a sort of tool or weapon.

714
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 3: It's like an agricultural product of the crab society.

715
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean you could compare it in that

716
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: respect to leafcutter ants and the crop they grow. But yeah,

717
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: I love the idea of comparing the boxing crab to

718
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 2: the hunter from without Warning because it makes you wonder, like,

719
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: what kind of evolutionary path led the hunter here? Did

720
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: it grow up cultivating its weapon race of deathly flying discs?

721
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: And just you know, it ends up being part of

722
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: the way it lives its life. Eventually they start making

723
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: satchels to carry them in. Maybe at some point they

724
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: were like exo parasites that collected on their body and

725
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 2: then they started using them offensively. I don't know.

726
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 3: That would not be the only case in nature of

727
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: something that begins as a parasite but then eventually is

728
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: adopted into a kind of mutualism with the host.

729
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

730
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: In fact, I think that could probably be said to

731
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 3: be the case for a lot of you know, the

732
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 3: regular microbiota that lives on and in all of us.

733
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I should add that we never see the alien

734
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: hunter without his outfit on. If they were to pull

735
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 2: that costume off, perhaps he's just covered with him. They

736
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: just suckered all over.

737
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: Him, right, or they're just like coming out of a

738
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: little like a printer slot in his belly. Now we

739
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 3: mentioned at some point the character played by the actress

740
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 3: Tara Nutter tries to throw one of these things back

741
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: at the alien, you know, to turn his weapons against him,

742
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 3: and it fails, like throws it and it falls short

743
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 3: of him. So you never since that would it have

744
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 3: worked if it had hit him, Like if she was

745
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 3: able to hit him with this thing. Would it latch

746
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: on and poison him and do its thing like it

747
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 3: does with humans, or you know, is it just like it?

748
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: Would he be immune to it? Anyway? The movie does

749
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 3: not solve this riddle that it itself has posed, but

750
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 3: maybe that would be a good place to talk about

751
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 3: what happens at the end of the film, because that's

752
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 3: when she throws the disc. So there are various encounters

753
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 3: where the teens are running around. The surviving teens are

754
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 3: being pursued by Martin Landau who at some point he

755
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: gets a police car and he's like driving after them

756
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 3: in it.

757
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: Oh, well, there's this wonderful scene where the police officer

758
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 2: shows up, yeah to save the day, and Sarge shoots

759
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 2: him dead.

760
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's right.

761
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 2: And then of course more police come to arrest Sarge.

762
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 2: But then Sarge apparently steals the police vehicle and shows

763
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 2: up in the police car. You think the bo the

764
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 2: police are here to save the teens. No, it's Sarge again.

765
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Sarge shoots the police officer because he

766
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 3: thinks s he's an alien. Yes, And then yeah, so

767
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 3: he's in the police car. He's chasing the teens around

768
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 3: and then At some point, the teens escape and they

769
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: go into a hunting cabin or a house, and then

770
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 3: the movie gets kind of quiet for a bit where

771
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: they're just chilling out in the house. They're looking around

772
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: the baby. Scaramushi bruised this pot of coffee and then

773
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 3: presumably drinks it all from It looks like he drinks

774
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 3: about four gallons of coffee and then dies in a chair.

775
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: I remember him going to make the coffee, saying he's

776
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: going to stay up all night and protect her. Why

777
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: don't you sleep? And I wanted to be like, oh, sweetie,

778
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: that's not how coffee works. You can't just brew a

779
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: pot of coffee and that's going to keep alone, is

780
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 2: going to keep you up all night?

781
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, how much coffee do I need in order to

782
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 3: stay up all night? I would guess about four gallons. Yeah,

783
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 3: that'll get me through. So he's dead in a chair

784
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 3: when we find him with a flesh frisbee attached to

785
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 3: his face. So you might assume, okay, the alien killed him,

786
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 3: but it's also quite possible he just died of diarrhea

787
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 3: from the four gallons of coffee. Before that, the alien

788
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 3: just stuck the flesh frisbee on there, kind of as

789
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 3: an afterthought, but then we get a chase. The alien

790
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: is chasing Tera Nutter around and Jack Palance shows up

791
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 3: to help her, and Jack Palance reveals that he has

792
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 3: laid a trap for the alien that now the Aliens shed,

793
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,919
Speaker 3: the former water utilities shed that has all the dead

794
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 3: bodies in it, is rigged with dynamite and they're going

795
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 3: to lure the alien back to the shed and blow

796
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 3: him to pieces. And essentially this process works, except that

797
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: at some point Sarge shows up and temporarily foils their plan,

798
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 3: and then he gets killed by the alien. Unfortunately, Jack

799
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 3: Palance gets flesh frisbeed a lot, and no amount of

800
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 3: cutting off the flesh frisbees will save him, so instead

801
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 3: he sacrifices himself, charging straight on at the alien and yelling,

802
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 3: and you can just tell when they film the scene

803
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: they were looking around at each other thinking did we

804
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 3: ever give the alien a name? Does it have a name,

805
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: And the answer is no, so he just yells.

806
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: Alien yeah really. He does ultimately have his Captain Ahab moment. Yeah.

807
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, from the heart of Hell, I stab at the

808
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 3: I guess from the heart of Hell, I run at

809
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 3: the alien.

810
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. If he presumably pulls it off.

811
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 3: Yes, yeh see. He grabs the alien around the ankles

812
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 3: and then they blow it to pieces with the dynamite

813
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: and the day is saved.

814
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: But that's why Palents didn't get to play Ahab in

815
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: a film adaptation to Mobi Dick, because he's like, and

816
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: then I killed the whale. That's how this goes, and

817
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 2: they're like, no, no, it's not exactly how the novel goes,

818
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: and he's like, it doesn't matter. I tink a run

819
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: it that whale, I take it down.

820
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 3: I thought you were gonna say. That's why he never

821
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 3: played Ahab, because he's like, I've already done that role.

822
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: It's perfect.

823
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: No adaptation of Moby Dick could rival without warning. Do

824
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: I get to run at the whale yelling? Well, perhaps

825
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 3: we should talk about what is this film trying to say?

826
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 3: If it is trying to say anything. I do think

827
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 3: this one is trying to say something, but I'm not

828
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 3: quite sure it's sure what that is, but I can

829
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 3: tell you it is something about hunting. The film is

830
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 3: clearly a meditation on the theme of hunting, because the

831
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: alien is a hunter and they just really beat you

832
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: over the head with it. Almost every single character talks

833
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 3: about hunting.

834
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, from the very beginning, like the father and son

835
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: are arguing about hunting, like, why do you like hunting? Dad?

836
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 2: I don't know, Son, why don't you not like hunting?

837
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 2: So they really kind of to a certain extent, beat

838
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: you over the head with it. But at the same time,

839
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,919
Speaker 2: after a while, it feels like they're not really sure

840
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: what point they're trying to make about hunting. I mean

841
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: maybe to an extent, maybe that's good, Like you don't

842
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: feel like there's a really heavy handed message to.

843
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 3: This film, Oh sure, I mean I'm not saying that.

844
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 3: I think every film should have a moral that can

845
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 3: be stated in a sentence. Though if this film has

846
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 3: any thoughts in general about hunting, even then I'm not

847
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: quite sure what those are. But maybe maybe we'll find

848
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 3: something here, because I wanted to explore these these hunting

849
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 3: themes in literature a little bit and see if we

850
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: can if that can inform our vision of the movie. Now, obviously,

851
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 3: stories of divine hunters, like you would say the alien

852
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 3: in this movie is in a way a divine hunter, right,

853
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 3: it comes down from the sky, it's got superhuman powers,

854
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 3: and it uses them to hunt on earth, but not

855
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 3: just to hunt beasts, to hunt the most dangerous game

856
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 3: of all, which is Madden. And so obviously, you know,

857
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 3: these stories of divine hunters are just rich throughout ancient mythology.

858
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 3: Most of the myths of hunters, I think, are about

859
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 3: normal hunting. You know, they're humans or humanoid gods who

860
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: hunt animals. And then a lot of hunting mythology is

861
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 3: about the relationship between hunters and prey and the gods

862
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 3: who aid hunters in the hunt. But there are a

863
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 3: few myths that sort of turn the tables on the

864
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 3: hunting dynamics in the style of Predator or this movie,

865
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 3: or one of my favorites, the tagline from the for

866
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 3: the nineties movie Congo. You remember that tagline goes where

867
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 3: you are the endangered species?

868
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess It's often pointed out too that

869
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: modern twists on this or are all kind of a

870
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 2: twist on a most dangerous game in which you know,

871
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 2: humans are hunting humans. And then in just in sci fi,

872
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 2: like there was an older Isaac Asimov's story in which

873
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 2: there's like a time traveler who gets drunk at a

874
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 2: bar and tells everybody that he traveled back to dinosaur

875
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 2: days and found that reptilian humanoids hunted all the dinosaurs

876
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: to extinction. So this idea of alien or alien esque hunters,

877
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: you know, certainly predates even this film.

878
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And other sci fi stories have touched

879
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 3: on hunting themes, of course. I mean the one that

880
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 3: immediately comes to mind is a Sound of Thunder, where

881
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 3: there's time travel again and the idea that but this

882
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 3: is also about humans hunting animals. In that story, the

883
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 3: humans go back, they hunt dinosaurs, and unfortunately, in hunting

884
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: dinosaurs they create ripple effects throughout time. You know, it's

885
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 3: the butterfly effect explored. But this, of course is the

886
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 3: theme where we're talking here about humans or humanoid gods

887
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 3: being the prey. And I think there are some myths

888
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 3: that sort of get into territory at least close to this.

889
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: One example is a number of myths about the Greek

890
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: goddess Artemis having various kinds of hunts for humans, or

891
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 3: at least hunting sort of revenge on humans that in

892
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 3: some way resembles a hunt. Artemis Artemis is an interesting figure,

893
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 3: of course, she is the virgin goddess of the hunt

894
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: in Greek mythology. There are some connections between her and

895
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 3: probably older, more ancient goddesses who symbolized something having to

896
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: do with fertility in the ancient Near East. But in

897
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: Greek mythology, Artemis is very often associated with hunts and

898
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 3: hunting weapons, and the wilderness and wild animals. She had

899
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 3: these stags and deer that are sacred to her. She,

900
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 3: like the predator, and like the alien in Without Warning,

901
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 3: has powerful supernatural tools that aid her in the hunt.

902
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 3: So whereas the Predator's got his laser cannon and his

903
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 3: blades and his nets and all those things, and of

904
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 3: course the alien from Without Warning has the flesh frisbees.

905
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 3: Artemis has a silver bow and silver arrows that were

906
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 3: forged by the cyclopes in this underwater realm, and the

907
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 3: arrows of this bow could split a pine tree and

908
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 3: the quiver would always be full. And she also has

909
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 3: a pack of hunting dogs that she acquired from the

910
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 3: god Pan you know, the little King of the Wood,

911
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 3: which could outrun any deer or outfight any lion. And

912
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 3: there are a number of myths where she sort of

913
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 3: hunts a person or a deity after they've offended her

914
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 3: in some way. I think that. Probably the best known

915
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 3: of these is the myth of Acteon, right where Acteon

916
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 3: is himself a hunter. He's a young hunter who's traveling

917
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 3: through the forest and he sees Artemis bathing in a

918
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 3: pool or a stream, and he's like wow. And then

919
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: she catches him looking at her, and because he saw

920
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 3: her naked, she transforms him into a stag, and then

921
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 3: he is pursued by dogs. I think in most versions

922
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 3: of the story, I think he's pursued by his own

923
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: hunting dogs that mistake him for the prey now, and

924
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 3: they catch him and they tear him to pieces. But

925
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 3: I've also seen some version where apparently she hunts him

926
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 3: with her hounds, maybe the hounds of Pan, and they

927
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 3: catch and rip him apart.

928
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 2: You know this is this is great because, on one hand,

929
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 2: hunting dogs are a perfect analog to the flying fresh

930
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: flesh frizdi. Yes, you know they are yea biotechnology, domesticated

931
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 2: creatures that we send forth to do our will on

932
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: the hunt. I wonder too about you know, obviously, hunting

933
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: was such an important part of life, an essential part

934
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,439
Speaker 2: of life for for early humans, So it makes sense

935
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: that this thing that we depended on on on a

936
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 2: daily basis would would mingle so with our myth making.

937
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 2: But also I wonder if there's a sense that it

938
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: that it that it also reveals, especially for early humans,

939
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: how delicate our place in the natural order was, Like

940
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 2: in the same way that has often pointed out that

941
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: our cats, our pet cats are are extra insane because

942
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: in the in the wild, they are both predator and prey,

943
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 2: you know, And and so for early and especially that

944
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 2: would have been the case. There were beasts that would

945
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 2: eat us, just as we had to eat beasts, and

946
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: in doing so, you know, a lot of these myths

947
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: kind of seem to explore that dual nature that you know,

948
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: just but for the will of the goddess, I could

949
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 2: be the creature hunted by these fierce beasts that do

950
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: my bidding.

951
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's it's a natural place to go,

952
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 3: and it's a natural kind of irony to explore, you know,

953
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 3: it's very much that like Avid's metamorphosis territory. You know,

954
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 3: the ironies inherent in the natural order of things. One

955
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,919
Speaker 3: of the most obvious kind of ironies you could get

956
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 3: into is the order of the food chain. We're usually

957
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 3: at the top, we're doing all the hunting. But what

958
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 3: if you were the prey, which, in fact, and that's

959
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 3: not even something you have to imagine a magical scenario

960
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 3: for Like, you know, if you are stranded without tools,

961
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 3: without aid and stuff like that, you could easily become

962
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 3: a prey animal to a lion or something like that.

963
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 3: But but I think the strange part comes in the

964
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 3: strangeness enters when you're imagining not being prey to a

965
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 3: wild animal, but being prey to a human or humanoid hunter.

966
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, being the focus of the hunter's will.

967
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, because human hunters are different than wild animals. They've

968
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 3: got you know, these they've got tools, they've got technology

969
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 3: like Artemis does, they've got language, they've got sort of

970
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 3: complex desires and will that the reason that Artemis might

971
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 3: hunt a human would be not because she desires its

972
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 3: meat to eat, but because she hates it for some

973
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 3: reason it has offended her. And that would be the

974
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,919
Speaker 3: case in say, the myth of Niobe. Again, this one

975
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 3: is it's not a perfect analogy because it's not exactly

976
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 3: a hunt. But the normal version of this myth is

977
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 3: that Niobe is the human daughter of Tantalus and the

978
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 3: wife of Amphion, the king of Thebes, and in a

979
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,439
Speaker 3: lot of tellings she boasts in pride that she has

980
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 3: more children than the titan Letto, who is the mother

981
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 3: of Apollo and Artemis. And then Apollo and Artemis get

982
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 3: revenge against her for making this prideful boast against their

983
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 3: mother by slaughtering all of Niobe's children, which is, you know,

984
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 3: a very Greek myth kind of thing to happen. And

985
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 3: so the way it happens is that Artemis showers them

986
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 3: with shafts from her bow while they're in their home,

987
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 3: and Apollo takes the sons of Niobe hunting and kills

988
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 3: them all while on the hunt, and Niobe is left

989
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 3: to grieve. So there is sort of like a hunting

990
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 3: inflection in the revenge plot here.

991
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 2: Now there's also a sense, especially without warning, there's this

992
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 2: idea too that all right, you bumbling teens have just

993
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 2: wandered into something beyond your comprehension, you know, and now

994
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: you're stuck in it. And really we see this as

995
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 2: well with this mythic concept of the doom that comes

996
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 2: with interrupting a divine hunt, such as the wild hunt

997
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 2: traditions of Northern Europe. So in these traditions you have

998
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 2: gods such as Odin and or the spirits of hunters

999
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 2: passed running amok across the countryside, often at night, with

1000
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 2: hell hounds in toe, in pursuit of prey. And that

1001
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 2: prey might be a magical or divine heart, you know,

1002
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 2: some sort of sacred deer. It might be demons thereafter,

1003
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 2: it might be the souls of the damned as another

1004
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: frequent prey, or they might be chasing nothing at all,

1005
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 2: or nothing that you can even you know, determine. Now,

1006
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: the rules of these hunts and these hunt encounters seem

1007
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 2: to vary, but basically getting in the way of these hunts,

1008
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 2: or certainly even being seen by these hunts is potentially dangerous.

1009
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: You might get swept away into the underworld. And in

1010
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 2: some versions of the tradition, trying to interfere with in

1011
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 2: the hunt will spell your doom. But in some versions,

1012
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 2: aiding the hunt could earn you a reward.

1013
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 3: Ah, I see, So these are kind of ghost riders

1014
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 3: in the sky, like yeah, and you come across them,

1015
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 3: you best not get in their way, even if they're

1016
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 3: not hunting for you. Right, there's kind of a sense

1017
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 3: of that in actually, I would say in a lot

1018
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 3: of horror movies, but also in definitely, in Without Warning

1019
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 3: and in Predator. Yeah, I know, there's a lot of

1020
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,720
Speaker 3: sort of academic theory about one of the common themes

1021
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 3: of horror being, you know, the danger of going into

1022
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 3: liminal spaces, that people are punished for venturing into areas

1023
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 3: and meddling into affairs that are not their purview, and

1024
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 3: so you know, you go, and so in Predator would

1025
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 3: be there like these commandos go into some other country

1026
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 3: that is not their home, and they get involved in

1027
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 3: stuff that is none of their affair, and thus they

1028
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,959
Speaker 3: become targets of this otherworldly hunt. I think the same

1029
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 3: thing is sort of true and Without Warning, except it's

1030
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 3: hokey or I mean, basically, the place they're going is

1031
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 3: like to some river in some kind of rural area.

1032
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 3: But again it's like city kids. It's the you know,

1033
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 3: the makeout point. Teens are not from here, and they

1034
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 3: go in and they suffer for invading this liminal space.

1035
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess you could even say that

1036
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 2: in Without Warning, you know, they're trying to they're trying

1037
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 2: to make some point about the distance between the young

1038
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 2: generation the older generation, between urban and rural and so

1039
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 2: you could say that there is some you some exploration

1040
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: of the idea that it is like another world, but

1041
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 2: but it does.

1042
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 3: They are getting in the way of the hunt, like

1043
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 3: the Ablest that's where he's doing his stuff, and they

1044
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 3: show up and almost kind of like get into the

1045
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 3: middle of it and are punished for it.

1046
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, like everybody's doing basically okay with it. The drunks

1047
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: in the bar, they're just maintaining. Sergetes addled, but you know,

1048
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,439
Speaker 2: he's not hurting anybody, and Palantes really wants to hunt

1049
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: that alien. But you get to see the feeling that

1050
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: he's just been waiting for the right opportunity to really

1051
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 2: bring it to the next level. And that's what the

1052
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: kids do. They just knock all of the norms out

1053
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 2: of out of position, and now we're in a you know,

1054
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 2: a much dire or situation. Right. But with the wild hunts,

1055
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:55,479
Speaker 2: like I said, a lot of the time they're hunting

1056
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 2: demons and whatnot. But some of these wild hunt traditions

1057
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 2: do involve the wild hunters hunting the living. Consider the

1058
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 2: Devil's Dandy Dogs of Cornwall, which Carol Rose, a folk

1059
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 2: historian who's written a couple of wonderful encyclopedias that I

1060
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 2: continually come back to about monsters and fairies. She describes

1061
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,479
Speaker 2: the Devil's Dandy Dogs as demonic huntsmen in a pack

1062
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 2: of black, fiery eyed demon dogs who quote hunt down

1063
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 2: the living and rip them to pieces. And then they

1064
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: also hunt the souls of the damned. And then there's

1065
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 2: also the coon Anen or the Hounds of Fairyland or

1066
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: the Hounds of Hell, also known as the Hounds of

1067
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 2: the Mother, or the Corpse Dogs or the sky Dogs.

1068
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 3: Wow.

1069
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have a number of different names, and according

1070
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 2: to Rose, they're mostly invisible, but when you do see

1071
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 2: these dogs, they're stark white and they have red eyes

1072
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 2: and red ears, and they're led by either the Devil

1073
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 2: or a giant named Bran or a quote monstrous, black faced,

1074
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: gray clad master huntsmen known as gwyn Appnon. And they

1075
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: might be hunting the living, They might be hunting the

1076
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 2: souls of the dead. They also might be hunting unrepentant

1077
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: sinners or unbaptized babies, depending on the telling.

1078
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 3: Is it much sport to hunt unbaptized babies.

1079
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wouldn't think so, unless they're just

1080
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 2: really cagy babies.

1081
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah, so clearly there is this idea that

1082
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 3: there are uh I mean, I think this is common

1083
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 3: in beliefs about fairies or about the hidden people, that

1084
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 3: they have their own affairs and they're going about their

1085
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 3: own business, and that humans often get into trouble when

1086
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 3: you sort of wander into the middle of what they're doing.

1087
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 3: So are you saying that that's sort of what's going

1088
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 3: on here and connects in a way with Predator and

1089
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 3: Without Warning?

1090
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think there is a sense that you know,

1091
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 2: you've stumbled upon this otherworldly affair that you don't have

1092
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 2: any right to be a part of, but now you're

1093
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 2: in it, and you may well face your doom because.

1094
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 3: There is a strange sense of implied justice that is

1095
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 3: more there, I would say, in Predator than in Without Warning.

1096
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 3: In Predator, you recall that, like the predator does not

1097
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 3: seem to attack anyone who is unarmed, so in some

1098
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 3: way it is almost a chivalrous alien hunter that it

1099
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 3: only wants someone who's a good sport, and you're only

1100
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 3: good sport for it if you can defend yourself. I

1101
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 3: feel like that's less the case in Without Warning. I

1102
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 3: don't remember anything.

1103
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 2: Well, we do have that scene where the monster, the

1104
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: Hunter has no problem taken out the Scout Master, but

1105
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 2: lets an entire pack of boy Scouts go free.

1106
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 3: That's right, I forgot about that scene. So maybe the

1107
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 3: same thing is implied here. I'm coming back to it again,

1108
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 3: you screenwriters of Predator. I'm coming for you. I want

1109
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 3: to know. Was this just a variation on without Warning?

1110
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1111
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 2: I mean, the Hunter knew that the baby Face David

1112
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 2: Caruso or David Face Baby Cruso, whichever it, knew that

1113
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 2: he was. This is a character worth hunting to the

1114
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 2: death right. But the boy Scouts gotta let him go,

1115
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 2: let him, let him grow up a little bit.

1116
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the other two teens who got killed by

1117
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 3: the lake weren't They weren't armed, So I don't know

1118
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 3: how that holds up. Well, yeah, so maybe the boy

1119
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 3: Scouts are let go just because they're too young. Maybe

1120
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 3: that's it.

1121
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 2: The flesh isn't tasty yet. I don't know, right, Maybe

1122
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 2: the sucker of frisbees don't actually attach to younglings. We

1123
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 2: don't know, or maybe they'd all been baptized. We don't

1124
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 2: know the full religious history of everybody in this film.

1125
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 3: Oh, that's true. We never get any glimpse at the

1126
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 3: religion of the hunter, though you kind of get the

1127
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 3: sense that there is at least some narrow bit of

1128
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 3: culture implied, because the hunter is not dressed in what

1129
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 3: appears to be utilitarian clothing. The alien hunter is dressed

1130
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 3: in something that looks at least from the Earth analogy,

1131
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 3: like religious garb. It has robes, and then it has

1132
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 3: this kind of woven net like or almost Macromay kind

1133
01:00:58,400 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 3: of thing over it.

1134
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which I think does also add to the

1135
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 2: just weird vibe of the villain here, because yeah, he's

1136
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: not outfitted like a human hunter. He's not using tools

1137
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 2: that are seemingly like anything we use to hunt. He's

1138
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 2: like some weird alien priest flinging flesh frisbees all over

1139
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: the woods.

1140
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 3: Here's a jellyfish Dominus vobiscum. So I wanted to point

1141
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 3: out something else that I thought was interesting. That's something

1142
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 3: in common with, or something in common between Without Warning

1143
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 3: Predator and some ancient myths about divine hunters, which is,

1144
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 3: how do you defeat them? If there's like a divine

1145
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 3: hunter with otherworldly powers and tools at its disposal, is

1146
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 3: there any way that immortal or a less powerful entity

1147
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 3: can face it down, and the answer appears to be traps.

1148
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 3: In this movie, it's Jack Palance with a shed rigged

1149
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 3: with dynamite. Remember he gets the explosives in the the

1150
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 3: watershed and then they blow the alien to pieces after

1151
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 3: he yells alien. And then in Predator, it's Schwarzenegger's tree

1152
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 3: trunk counterweight. Right. Oh yeah, like he Schwarzenegger sets up

1153
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 3: a trap that I think is supposed to originally hook

1154
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 3: under the predator's feet and then like throw him up

1155
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 3: into a bunch of spikes but or sharpened steaks. But

1156
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 3: then he has to kind of improvise because the predator

1157
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 3: goes around his trap. But then he gets him anyway,

1158
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 3: just by dropping a log on him.

1159
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 2: He's I think the more ingenious thing that Schwarzenegger's character

1160
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: was a Dutch could have employed. He's don't try and

1161
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 2: make a really good trap, make a terrible trap, like

1162
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 2: a really obviously bad trap that it just make the

1163
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: predator give up and realize, Okay, this guy's not a genius,

1164
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: not a discord after all. Yeah, I'm just gonna go

1165
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 2: ahead and call it a day, which I guess to

1166
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 2: a certain extent. That's what Sarage is doing in this movie,

1167
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 2: because we learned that Sarge is going around digging tiger traps, yes,

1168
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 2: deep pit traps all over the place, to the point

1169
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 2: where our heroes just fall into one at some point,

1170
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 2: but they're fine, there are any spikes or anything. It's

1171
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 2: not a very good trap.

1172
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1173
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, But this actually does connect to a Greek myth.

1174
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 3: So there's a Greek myth about the pair of figures

1175
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 3: known as the Aloaid, in which Artemis, the divine hunter

1176
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 3: again kills two other divine hunters to otherwise invincible aggressive

1177
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 3: divine hunters only by resorting to a trap. So here

1178
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 3: is sort of predator versus predators. Now, the aload were

1179
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 3: these twin giants. They were the sons of a human

1180
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 3: mother named if Amidea and of the sea god Poseidon,

1181
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,439
Speaker 3: and their names were ODIs and e Fialtes. And as

1182
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 3: demi gods, ODIs and e Fialtes grew large and violent,

1183
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 3: and they lived as these wild, uncontrollable hunters on the land,

1184
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 3: and they were so powerful that they could only be

1185
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 3: killed by each other, and they eventually nurtured designs on

1186
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 3: Mount Olympus. They wanted to attack the home of the gods,

1187
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 3: and it's said that Aris, the god of war, tried

1188
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 3: to stop them. He tried to kill them, but they

1189
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 3: crammed him into a brazen cauldron. And in some versions

1190
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 3: of the myth, the twin giants wanted to steal away

1191
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 3: Artemis and Hera from Olympus and make them into their wives.

1192
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 3: And in one telling of the myth, the way they're defeated.

1193
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 3: I think there are some versions where Apollo kills them,

1194
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 3: but in one version, the huntress Artemis is able to

1195
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 3: catch them in a trap. She transforms herself into a

1196
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 3: stag and then bates the two of them into a

1197
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 3: hunt And in animal form, Artemis positions herself between the

1198
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 3: two giants and they each throw their hunting spears at her,

1199
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 3: and then she dodges, and the spears thrown by each

1200
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 3: hunter pierced the other, and thus the Demi gods are slain.

1201
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,439
Speaker 2: Ah. You know what that reminds me of? It also

1202
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 2: reminds me of RoboCop three. Isn't that how RoboCop defeats

1203
01:04:57,640 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 2: the two Cybern Ninjas? Oh?

1204
01:04:59,120 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 3: Is it?

1205
01:04:59,360 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 2: Kind of? Don't?

1206
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1207
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 2: Like, basically he somehow tricks or some shenanigans occur that

1208
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 2: caused the two cyber ninjas to destroy each other with

1209
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 2: their swords.

1210
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 3: That's interesting And as a connections, I was reading on

1211
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 3: IMDb that the young actor who played Scaramuci van Deen

1212
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 3: in this movie he apparently did stunts in RoboCop three,

1213
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 3: if his IMDb page is correct. But anyway, is this

1214
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 3: a coincidence? Why are traps the obvious answer to an

1215
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 3: overpowered celestial hunter from the sky.

1216
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, one part of it could just be

1217
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 2: too you know, to think back on how we would

1218
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 2: have dealt with larger predators of old. You know, we

1219
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 2: had to figure out ways to outsmart them, and that

1220
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: may involve either setting a trap, like an actual physical

1221
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 2: trap like a pit or a tiger pit. Oh, or

1222
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 2: it might involve some sort of yeah we have buffalo jumps,

1223
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 2: you have some sort of ambush tactics would be employed,

1224
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 2: like some way of outsmarting them and using either a

1225
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 2: physical artifice or a strategic artifice against them.

1226
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, so when a human is hunted,

1227
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 3: it's obviously it's some kind of inversion of how things

1228
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 3: are supposed to be. It's a perversion of the divine order.

1229
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 3: We're supposed to hunt, not be hunted, And I wonder

1230
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 3: if there's an idea that, in order to reclaim your

1231
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 3: humanity and your position atop the chain of being, that

1232
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 3: you have to insist on victory by outsmarting this usurping

1233
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 3: hunter figure rather than simply overpowering it.

1234
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that might well be the mythic energy

1235
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 2: that without Warning is tapping into. All right, well, we're

1236
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 2: reaching the end of our discussion here at this point.

1237
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 2: If you have not seen the film, you might be wondering, Hey,

1238
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 2: where can I watch without Warning? Well, as of this recording,

1239
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 2: I don't believe it's available on any of the major

1240
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 2: streaming sites, at least in the United States. I couldn't,

1241
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 2: but it's always worth checking around. Especially I find Amazon

1242
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 2: Prime to be a great place to find just righteous trash.

1243
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: They have just a wonderful selection of obscure titles.

1244
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 3: Yeah there. Recently they've expanded their jallo collection in eye

1245
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 3: popping ways. We watched a movie with baby Jing Carlo

1246
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 3: Janini in it, The Black Belly of the Tarantula. Have

1247
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 3: you seen that one? Oh?

1248
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that one, but I love that title.

1249
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 3: Oh man, it is a it is a It is

1250
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 3: a Jallo Lover's Jaello.

1251
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 2: Now, as we mentioned earlier, Shout Factories, Scream Factory and

1252
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 2: Print put out an awesome DVD and Blu ray of

1253
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 2: Without Warning back in twenty fourteen. I think it is

1254
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 2: out of print. Maybe it'll go back in print by

1255
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 2: the time you're listening to this, but that's well worth

1256
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 2: finding a copy of. That is the addition that we

1257
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 2: both watched in preparation for this episode. Yeah, and hey,

1258
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 2: if you happen to live in Atlanta, you can totally

1259
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: rent it at Video drone in either format.

1260
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 3: I would highly recommend it. I would say it's like

1261
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 3: all of the Dean Cundi movies. Once again, it might

1262
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 3: be trash, but it's surprisingly watchable.

1263
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 2: All Right, we're going to go and close out the

1264
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 2: episode here, but we want to hear from you. What

1265
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 2: did you think of the film? Did you happen to

1266
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 2: see it back in nineteen eighty. I'm always interested in

1267
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 2: those accounts, Like, you know, I saw it on the

1268
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 2: screen in the time that it was speaking to all

1269
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 2: the time it was speaking too.

1270
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 3: Did you happen to make it in nineteen eighty? Are

1271
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 3: you great? Yeah?

1272
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 2: Were you involved in the in the film? Yeah? Are

1273
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 2: you great on Clark. Are you the ghost of Jack

1274
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 2: Pallence writing into us to let us know that you

1275
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 2: did defeat that alien? It was definitely dead, and that

1276
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 2: your character survived for the sequel that we never got

1277
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 2: to see. We want to know about that as well,

1278
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 2: Hunter of Core. All right, you know how to get

1279
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 2: in touch with us, and in the meantime, just wherever

1280
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 2: you get this podcast, we asked you rate, review, and subscribe.

1281
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

1282
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 3: Nicholas Johnson. If you'd like to get in touch with us,

1283
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 3: we don't know how you would do that yet, but

1284
01:08:55,560 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 3: maybe there will be a way.

1285
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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.