1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Did you know a recent law can leave your personal 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: data exposed online for anybody to find. If you've turned 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: on the news lately, you know the internet has created 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: power by using a new website called truth Finder. Have 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: you been issued a speeding ticket, received a lean from 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: the I R S? Did you forget about embarrassing social 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: media profile? That info may already be online. Truth Finder 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: can help you find it. Truth Finder searches millions of 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: public records, assembling the data together in one report. Members 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com, slash Nancy, enter your own name, 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: Get started crime stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: Triumph Channel one third. You too. How many times have 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: I taken the children camping or on hikes or nature walks? 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: That is exactly what a young dad was doing with 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: his two daughters, ages two and four, taking them on 19 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: a camping trip so his wife, a doctor, could study 20 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: for exams. So Dad goes off with some daddy and 21 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: me time with the two two year old and the 22 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: four year old little girl, and he doesn't make it 23 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: out alive, gunned down dead in his tent on the 24 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: camping trip as his two little girls look on. We 25 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: want justice. I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank 26 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: you for being with us. Dad of two, Tristan Bodette 27 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: shot dead at a campsite Malibu Creek State Park, shot 28 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: in his tent in front of his two little girls. 29 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: He dies at the scene. The natural loving dad, also 30 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: an esteemed scientist, straight out to Crime online dot Com 31 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Chuck Roberts. Chuck, tell me what happened. Let's 32 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: start with that. Nancy Kristen Bodetta, thirty five year old 33 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: research chemist, as you said, went out with his two 34 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: young daughters Thursday evening from their home and Irvine to 35 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 1: a park called Malibu Creek State Parks about thirty miles away. 36 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: Sixty three campsites there. It was full at the time 37 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: and shots were running out around four thirty am on 38 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: Friday morning. They didn't even make it one night uh 39 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: nine when one calls came in and pull heast found 40 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: him bleeding from a gunshot wound in the upper torso 41 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: inside his tent with his little two year old and 42 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: four year old present, and he died at the scene. 43 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: Who called nine one one? Apparently other campers who heard gunfire. 44 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: Jason Bodet, married to his high school sweetheart. Uh, full 45 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: time partner in every sense of the word, to his wife, 46 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: to his children, to his job. Go ahead, Chuck roberts Well. 47 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: Police think he was shot inside the tent as the 48 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: young daughters were present, but witnesses think the shots came 49 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: from a distance, so there's some discrepancy there. Uh. And 50 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: the the there's absolutely no motive, there's no suspect, there's 51 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: no description to follow. Police have no real leads at 52 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: least leaves that they're disclosing. Uh. The only thing we 53 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: know about him is that he was changing jobs, moving 54 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: from the l A Area to the Bay Area with 55 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: his wife. He worked for a He was a researcher 56 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: for a company called Allergan, manufacturer of anti autism drugs, 57 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: and he was not as in anti vaccination advocates. Alternative 58 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: media is alive with speculation that that might have been 59 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: part of the motive, but there's been really no connection 60 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: at all. I mean really, Jason Ocean's criminal defense attorney, 61 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: You remember when I was getting the twins vaccinated. I 62 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: was so freaked out about it. And they're supposed to 63 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: get vaccines and bundles, and you and I talked and 64 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: talked and talked about it, about what you did with 65 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: your boy and girl, and I would refuse to get 66 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: the bundles and we would be going back like every 67 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: X amount of days to get the next vaccine because 68 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: typically they'll do like your MMR measles, monster bella bam. 69 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: Oh No, not me. I was on the edge. I 70 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: didn't know what to believe, what was right, what was wrong. 71 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: There's a lot of controversy swirling around that. But do 72 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: I believe somebody gunned down a father of two in 73 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: front of his children on a camping trip when the 74 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: whole vaccine brew ha ha is to protect children. So 75 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: one of these people love children so much, then when 76 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: a gun down a dad of two in front of 77 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: their children, this has nothing to do with the vaccine controversy. Okay, 78 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: since I've established that, what do you think, Jason? Well, 79 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: I think the fact that there was another shooting just 80 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: the other day in the park is significant. I mean, 81 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: it is someone there randomly doing it or is it 82 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: just a random intentional by that shooting into tense. Uh, 83 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: that distance is isolated and and certainly the ballistics will 84 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: will give us a better idea of the distance that 85 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: it traveled and where it was from. But you know 86 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: that MMR and that all those shots, that's that's seemingly 87 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: a red herring into this, just totally a red herring. 88 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: I want to talk about what we know, and Jason 89 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: Ocean's brought something up very significant Karen Smith. Following the 90 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: shooting death, the murder of Tristan the debt, there's been 91 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: another shooting in the same part. What's happening, Karen, How 92 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: do you piece this together to make some sense of it? 93 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: And what can we glean regarding forensics? There's a lot 94 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: we can glean from forensics. And and actually a red 95 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: flag went up when I just heard that some of 96 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: the witnesses said that the shots sounded like they came 97 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: from a distance. My my first instinct was to go, Okay, well, 98 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: apparently there were two holes in the in the tent, 99 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: and you know, the brother said he wasn't sure if 100 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: they were bullet holes. Well, if they were, my first 101 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: instinct was to say, well, was there any gunpowder residue 102 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: on the tent? Material or was it from a distance 103 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: further than three feet away? And I went to shoe 104 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: prints at the scene if that was a possibility. You know, 105 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: if we're dealing with a semi automatic gun, you're gonna 106 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: have casings left at the scene, and that will give 107 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: you an idea of some shoe prints that were left 108 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: at the scene. If it was a revolver, you're not 109 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: gonna have case things, but you'll have projectiles left at 110 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: the scene. Then when I heard that witnesses said it 111 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: was a distance, I went straight to rifle. And that 112 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: is really frightening. If you have somebody that's positioned a 113 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: distance away and they're targeting random tents or random people 114 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: with a rifle, we're dealing with a whole different situation here, Nancy. 115 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: That is somebody this this apparently could be their hunting ground, 116 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: and that is terrifying to me. So it's gonna be ballistics. 117 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: It's gonna be comparisons between ballistics on this shooting and 118 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: previous shootings to see if they can link these pieces together. 119 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: Take a listen to what investigators have to say. Four 120 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: four in the morning, the sheriff received a nine one 121 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: one called and responded and found a male victim of 122 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: a gun shot. Actually out of abundance of caution. We're 123 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: closing the campground out of abundance of caution for public safety. 124 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: We care about our visitors and their safety is the 125 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: most important thing. Karen Smith, forensics expert, brings up a 126 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,119 Speaker 1: very disturbing possibility, and I agree with her. To Dr 127 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: Daniel Bober joining US forensic psychiatrists, Shares have confirmed that 128 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: there were three other shooting incidents in the same area, 129 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: one just four days before Boudette was shot, two more 130 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: and now the one occurring immediately after Boudette was murdered, 131 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: now Nancy, and that number has now been updated. Police 132 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: tell us there have been seven shootings in and around 133 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: the Malibu Creek State Park since November of ten, and 134 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: last year, Melissa to TAngelo encountered a shooting in the 135 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: same park. She posted a video on Facebook January of 136 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 1: showing where her Honda was shot while she was at 137 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: the park. I walked around the back and at first 138 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: I thought it was a joke. Then my boyfriend walked 139 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: around and he was like, that's a bullet hole, and 140 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, it is right. What that says 141 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: to me is if the caliber's match. We are looking 142 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: at one gunman who is, as Karen Smith stated, using 143 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: this as his hunting ground. Dr Daniel bober I totally agreed, Nancy. 144 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: This is reminds me of the DC sniper case. You know, 145 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: you've got, like you said, the ballist. If the ballistics matchup. 146 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: If this guy is shooting people from an elevated position 147 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: through the tents, I mean you have a serial killer 148 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: on your hands. And this part, as you said, is 149 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: his hunting ground. There are the other shootings are now 150 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: being reviewed as part of this current homicide investigation, which 151 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 1: leads me to believe that authorities are investigating them as 152 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: coming from one shooter. This guy, this poor young dad 153 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: Bodet murdered in front of his two little girls, ages 154 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: two and four, and Jason Oceans. I don't care how 155 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: you slice it, it's still murder. Oh yes, absolutely, I mean, 156 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: it's um, it's horrible. I'm glad at least to know 157 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: that law enforcement is you know, triangulated these uh, these 158 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: these events and are focusing on one and where and 159 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: and that sounds like a task force, and that you 160 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: know that brings a lot more boots on the ground 161 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: into this, which is critical. Well, this is a kind 162 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: of a famous area actually, um, because the park is 163 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: the filming site before it was open to the public, 164 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: was the filming site of the outdoor set of Mash, 165 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: the long running TV series with alden Alda and so 166 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: many others, you know, Hawkeye, Radar, Winchester, hot Lips, the whole, 167 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: all of them. This is a very big draw tourist attraction. 168 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: Now apart, there was an episode Nancy. By the way, 169 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: there was an episode of Nash where they had a 170 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: sniper shooting at the camp. Um, you tell me that 171 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: it triggers to my youth of watching that show. I 172 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,479 Speaker 1: would hope that this that this picko is not associated 173 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: with that that former episode of the camp being attacked 174 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: by a sniper. Okay, you know a lot of people 175 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: would say that's far fetched. But Jason Oceans, based on 176 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: what I know about killers, especially serial killers, you never 177 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: know what's setting them off. Hold On, Chuck Roberts, Crime 178 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter wants in, what is you 179 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: know about what shaffs have common in regarding the other shootings. Well, 180 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: the state park superintendent Tony Hoffman said something that I 181 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: found unusual. Uh. He said, that rural areas get gunshots. 182 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm quoting directly. Now, people from the city. No, they 183 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: can't shoot in the city, and they go, oh, this 184 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: doesn't look like a city. They stop on a wide turnout, 185 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: they shoot. They hike down the trail and shoot. It's 186 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: what we call plinkers. They're not really hunting, they're not 187 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: trying to kill anything. I'm still quoting. It's not uncommon 188 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: for us to get reports of gunshots that usually end 189 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: up being plinkers, and most of the time we show up, 190 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: we don't find them. That's what he said. Roberts, better 191 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: be glad you said you were quoting, because I was 192 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: just about to rip your new tail hole on that one. 193 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: Because here's how that works. It's called the abandoned and 194 00:12:55,559 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: malignant heart theory of murder one. Yes, of course, murder 195 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: in the first degree. Premeditated murder can be when you 196 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: plan out a long scheme, like poisoning somebody every morning 197 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: in their tea tail they're dead. You can hire a 198 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: hit man. That's murder one laying in wait as another 199 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: premeditated murder. But the reality is murder one can be 200 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: proven in many different ways, and that includes an abandoned 201 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: or malignant heart. Okay, what is that? That's for instance, 202 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: driving your car at ninety mph into a street festival. 203 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: When you act with such reckless abandoned it rises to 204 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: a malignant heart where you endanger other people and end 205 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: up killing somebody. Or like shooting into a campground area 206 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: where tents are pitched, tents with a dad and two 207 00:13:54,400 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: little girls and it. Yeah, that's an abandoned and malignant heart. 208 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: I don't care if they call them clinkers or clinkers 209 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. You just said, this guy is dead. 210 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: What is our best chance, Karen Smith, I would say 211 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: ballistics at this point, that's all they've got, Nancy, They've 212 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: got ballistics. They're gonna have to recover the projectiles from 213 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: the scene. Um, They're gonna have to scour the area 214 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: to see if they find any bullet casings if they 215 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: were ejected. If it was a rifle and they fired 216 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: more than one shot, they're going to have to eject 217 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: at least one. Um. If it was a semi automatic, 218 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: they will automatically eject. Um. It doesn't sound like a revolver. 219 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: If we're dealing with a distant shooting here. It also 220 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a semi automatic. They're gonna have to 221 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: scour that area and they're gonna have to find every 222 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: single link that they can. The ballistics on the projectiles 223 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: that are recovered. They're gonna have to do some serious 224 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: comparisons to find out if it was the same gun 225 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: and then do some tracing on that. Hopefully the NIVEN 226 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: network can provide some information on that Nationalistics Integrated Network. Well, 227 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, Karen, whoever did that is looking at 228 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: murder one plus two accounts of aggravated assault. The two 229 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: little girls were in that tent as well. L A 230 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Department says it has no more details it 231 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: intends to release. This is an active homicide investigation. What 232 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: more do we know? We know Boudette brilliant. He graduated 233 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: with a pH d in chemistry for University California, Berkeley, 234 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: and it worked for Alegan and their pharmaceutical arena. But 235 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: he was happiest outdoors. He's been every opportunity he could find, hiking, biking, snowboarding, camping, 236 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: says the family. I've been looking at family postings of 237 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: their photos during the weekend, and one he's holding the 238 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: hands of his two little girls as they stand on 239 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: a shore and there's a wave crashing in. And another 240 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: photo he and his family are on the beach roasting s'mores. 241 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: He's got one arm around his wife in her camp chair, 242 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: the other is around his older daughter who's in a 243 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: little camp chair for kids. He's just breaking my heart. 244 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: The mother, Erica, was studying for an exam that was 245 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: set for the next morning. They were both planning to 246 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: move to the Bay Area for brand new jobs, and 247 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: this was their final step before taking time off together 248 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: as a family. Before they relocated. Everything was planned. They 249 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: had worked their whole lives for this moment, and now 250 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: Bodette is dead and seemingly a random act of senseless violence. 251 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: Please help us solve the case. Who murdered Tristan Boudette 252 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: tipline nine zero nine four five zero. There's a brand 253 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: new website causing a lot of trouble for people with 254 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: something to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling 255 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: about somebody may be suspected your partners cheating, may be 256 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: worried about your online reputation. If you answer yes to 257 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder public 258 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like 259 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: truth Finder, you most likely have to visit a courthouse 260 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: to get that information. Now it's as simple as entering 261 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: a name. Truth Finder sifts through millions of public records 262 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: from all for the country, assembling them into one easy 263 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: to read report. Search the names of somebody you know. 264 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: You could find criminal and arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information, 265 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: social dating profiles, financial assets, and a lot more. Why 266 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: fork out thousands to a private investigator when you can 267 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: do the job yourself. Everybody you know has something to hide. 268 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: Now you can root out the most dangerous people before 269 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: you become the next victim. It's not just used to 270 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: us bad people. Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, 271 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: even people who served with them in the military. It's 272 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: never been so easy to find the truth. Go to 273 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: truth finder dot com slash Nancy and enter any name 274 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: to get started. At this hour, police searching for the 275 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: mother of a newborn baby found abandoned near a dumpster. 276 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for 277 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: being with us. Dallas police desperately searching asking for help 278 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: to find the mother of a little baby found abandoned 279 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: near a garbage bin in Red Bird Joining me right now, 280 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Lee Egan Lee. How 281 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: did this come about? How did they find the baby? Well, 282 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: what happened was a lady that lived in the apartment 283 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: complex found the baby lying in the grass with the 284 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: abilical courts still attached, a few feet away from the dumpster. 285 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: Hold on right there, Joining me right now, Lee is 286 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: Dr Michelle Duprie, former pathologist, medical examiner, now professor at 287 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: Columbia College in South Carolina. Also author of A fuel 288 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: Guy to Homicide Investigations and Child Abuse Investigation Field Guide. 289 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: Dr Duprey What does it mean? What can we deduce 290 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: from the fact that the umbilical cord was still attached? Nancy, 291 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: this is um It was likely a pre traumatic birth. 292 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: There was no prenatal care or no no one in attendance, 293 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: a medical person in attendance at birth, and this can 294 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: cause some serious problems in what way, Well, there's always 295 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: the possibility of a hemorrhage. UM. We don't know the 296 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: status of the child, if there were any birth complications. 297 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: If here's much premature, there can be infections UM by 298 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: acceptance that would lead to other organs being damaged. UM, 299 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: there's the whole array of things that may be a problematic. Now, 300 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: when we say the umbilical cord is still attached, UM, 301 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: what exactly does that mean? I mean, to my lay 302 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: person's mind, it means that baby was just born. That 303 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: is most likely the case. UM. The umbilical cord provides 304 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: blood from the placenta to the fetus. Usually there are 305 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: two arteries in one vein. Again, there could be some abnormalities. UM, 306 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: this is the hemorrhage could come from um. Typically the 307 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: umbilical cord is clamped shortly after um, and in this 308 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: case that that was not done. The reason the umbilical 309 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: cord is clamped, to my understanding, is because the umbilical cord, 310 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: and we're talking about hemorrhaging, and regular people talk that's bleeding, bleeding. 311 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: This baby is left with the umbilical cord still attached. 312 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: The umbilical cord is a tube that connects the mother 313 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: to the baby during the pregnancy, while the babies and 314 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: mommy's tummy. I think it has three blood vessels in 315 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: the umbilical cord. One vein carries food and oxygen from 316 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: the mom's placenta to the baby, and two of those 317 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: arteries carry waste from the baby back into the placenta. 318 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: And that is what's so significant that this umbilical cord 319 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: is really three blood vessels arteries. That baby could easily 320 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: bleed out from the umbilical cord. This is significant. The 321 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: baby is born and without the umbilical cord being removed 322 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: uh and sordered or clamped nothing, the baby is just 323 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: thrown by the trash bend as if it's trash. I mean, 324 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: isn't that true, Dr Michelle Duprety that a baby can actually, 325 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: as you say, hemorrhage through the umbilical cord. That's why 326 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: they clamp it. Yes, I can see that is true. Absolutely. 327 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: Now another issue about the umbilical cord. Isn't there such 328 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: a thing as umbilical cord prolapse when the cord um 329 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: can let me get pinched, so to speak, and the 330 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: baby can't get oxygen. That's also true, Nancy. There's several 331 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: different abnormalities of the medical courts. They can have not 332 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: in them. They could become entangled around the baby's net. 333 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: All of those things may prevent the baby from getting 334 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: the oxygen that's needed to survive. So here's this baby 335 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: naked alone, thrown by a dumpster. I mean, you know, 336 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, you're the private investigator former Nashville p D. 337 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 1: How many cases have we handled or investigated or covered 338 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: about babies abandoned? You know, on the black market. This 339 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: baby could go for sixties seventy thousand dollars. Adults are 340 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: desperate to have a baby, they can't have a baby, 341 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: and this baby is thrown out naked by the dumpster 342 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,239 Speaker 1: with the umbilical cord still attached to Vincent. Yeah, you're 343 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: absolutely right, Nancy. In Nashville, I knew about the black 344 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: market of babies being sold. Uh so this is this 345 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: is very tragic. Unfortunately we hear about this all the time. 346 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: But as an investigator, where I would start is anybody 347 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: that lives in that apartment building where this young baby 348 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: was discarded like trash, because this dumpster was right behind 349 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: apartment buildings. So I'd be going door to door looking 350 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: for anybody that had any new injuries. Are just interviewing 351 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: people like, hey, do you know anyone that was pregnant here? Oh? Yes, 352 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: I knew such and such and she told me she 353 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: had the baby. That's where I would start. Well, once again, 354 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill the Voice of Reason. Kathleen Murphy joining me, 355 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: Family law expert, Kathleen Murphy, what about safe haven laws? 356 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: What are they? Law allows these women who are pregnant 357 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: but unable to keep the baby, or they want their baby, 358 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: they can leave this baby with the fire department or 359 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: the hospital and have no ramifications for abandoning their child. 360 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: The problem that you have is that the women that 361 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: are dumping these babies outside of a safe haven are 362 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: usually victims themselves of the opioide crisis and the heroine 363 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: used that I see on a day to day basis. 364 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: They're having these children and there out of their minds, 365 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, Kathleen Murphy. I appreciate that because I have 366 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: worked with many many addicts on many many different substances. 367 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: But when it comes between the welfare of the addict 368 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: and they if this is the mother is an addict, 369 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,239 Speaker 1: which I have no reason to believe, but if she is, 370 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: then I've got an innocent baby. You know, the baby 371 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: comes first in this scenario. So Ashley Wilcott, Atlanta juvenal judge, 372 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: lawyer and founder of Child crime watch dot com. What 373 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: does it say to you that mommy leaves the baby 374 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: throws the baby by the trash dump star that she's 375 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: committed a crime, that this is not. I don't care 376 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: what state of mind the person is in. She has 377 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: committed a crime. She's effectively murdered the baby. Because if 378 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 1: no one finds the baby while the baby still happens 379 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: to be alive, it is there's no excuse for it. 380 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: There's no tolerance that we need to have, which was 381 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: the reason for the safe haven laws. A lot of 382 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: people don't know about them, but I would submit even 383 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: women who know about them, if they don't want their baby, 384 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: are just gonna throw their baby away. It's a horrible, 385 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: horrible crime to dodger and Michelle Dupree uh from a 386 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, medical examiner and now professor at Columbia College. 387 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: Dr Dupree, How long could a baby last in the 388 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: elements on the ground by a dumpster where dogs and 389 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: animals come in the night to scavenge. So much of 390 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: that does depend on exactly what you said, the environment 391 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: that the town is founded, and also the prenatal care 392 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: that the child is spage um, what was the condition 393 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: when the child was born? Are any complications so that 394 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: comes vary. The childcatsil by very long, even even in 395 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: the best of condition. So this is absolutely privasy. I mean, 396 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: just thinking, Dr Dupree, just thinking about uh, possums and 397 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: raccoons and feral dogs and cats coming up on that 398 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: baby with the umbilical cord just hanging there, probably still bleeding. 399 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: I just you know, I'm gonna go back to crime 400 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reported Lee Egan. So, who did 401 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: you tell me finds the baby? Yeah, there was a 402 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: lady that found the baby and she actually they were 403 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: new to the area. They had no idea where hospital is. 404 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: Our hospital was, so she waited for her husband to 405 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: come home. Then they googled the hospital in nearby Grand Prairie, Texas, 406 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: drove the baby there. The woman new to the area, 407 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: fine minds the baby on Watership Lane by a dumpster 408 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: a PM waited for her husband to come home, Lee Egan, 409 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: you're telling me what what? Why didn't she call nine 410 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: one right then? The only thing she told police was 411 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: that they were new to the area and she wanted 412 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: to wait to see with her husband. So for whatever reason, 413 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: why we was she didn't call nine one one, I 414 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: don't know, but I know this, she got the baby. 415 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: She picked the baby up. She and her husband get 416 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: the baby in the car. They look up Texas Health 417 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: on a cell phone, and they drive the baby to 418 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: Texas Health. Right now, police searching desperately for the mother 419 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: of this baby abandoned in Red Bird. The baby the newborn, 420 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: found alive abandoned near a dumpster in North Texas. I'm 421 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: taking a look at the dumpster right now. I mean 422 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: exactly what, it's filthy. The area around it is filthy. 423 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: So the baby is found on a Saturday at nine 424 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: thirty at night. What does that tell you? Probably an investigator, 425 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: former cop Vincent Hill well Man, So we don't know 426 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: exactly how long the baby had been out there. But 427 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: what I would suspect is, since the baby was not 428 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: placed in the dumpster, whoever did this did it with 429 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: the intention of someone finding that baby. Because an apartment buildings, 430 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: there's people always taking their trash out, whether it's three 431 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: in the afternoon or three in the morning. So I 432 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: think the intention was for this baby to be found, 433 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: but unfortunately could have gone about getting rid of the 434 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: baby a different way. There's options to do that. Wait 435 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: a minute, I want to follow up on what you're 436 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: saying Vincent Hill, I mean, Ashley Willcote. You want the 437 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: baby to be found, all right? How about putting it 438 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: in a basket in a blanket on somebody's door set. 439 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: Why don't you put it by the trash on the 440 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: round at night when you know animals are gonna come 441 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: around that trap the dumpster. How's that helping the baby? 442 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: It's not. I don't believe that whoever had birth of 443 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: this baby did it and put the child there to 444 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: be found. I don't agree with that at all. I 445 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: think the person didn't give a flip flop about what 446 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: happened to this baby and disposed of it as quickly, 447 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,239 Speaker 1: as efficiently, as easily as they could to get rid 448 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: of the baby period. UH Texas safe haven laws allow 449 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: moms who are not able or simply don't want to 450 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: take care of their newborn children to hand them over 451 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: it designated locations like UH fire stations, police stations. Apparently 452 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people aren't aware of this, but common 453 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: sense tells you not to leave the baby at the 454 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: trash dumpster. Now back to Dr Michelle Dupree form, a 455 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: forensic pathology medical examiner, my longtime colleague, now a professor 456 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: at Columbia College, Dr Dupree, if the baby again back 457 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: to the umbilical cord, I'm focusing on it now on 458 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: a different um perspective, not the health perspective or the 459 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: danger to the baby's life, but evidentiarily, what does it mean. 460 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: It says to me the baby was not born in 461 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: a hospital or the doctor with a doctor, or at 462 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: a clinic. The baby was delivered without any assistance, and 463 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: somebody who had just gone through taught childbirth was hell 464 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: bent on getting rid of that baby. What does it 465 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: say to you, Dr Dupree, That's absolutely right. That's the 466 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: same thing that it indicates to me um the against 467 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: status of the umbilical cord and just simply discarding the 468 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: baby like that. The safe haven laws are such a comfort, 469 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: or should be to anyone who does have a child. 470 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: But I don't want to teach. There's no reason that 471 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: they could not turn that child over to want the 472 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: safe haven Back to Lee Egan, Crime online dot Com 473 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: investigative reporters, So where does it stand now. They're still 474 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: looking for witnesses, they still have not identified who the 475 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: mother is, the father nothing. I believe Mr Hill said 476 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,239 Speaker 1: they were going door to door that is exactly what 477 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: they did do They're looking still, I haven't found anything 478 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: at this hour. No other witnesses have been found. Police 479 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: desperately searching for the mother. Anyone with information please call 480 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: detectives at two one four, two seven five one three 481 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: to one, repeat to one, four to seven, five one 482 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: three to one. The baby has survived, but the investigation 483 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: goes on. A beautiful little boy just ten years old 484 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: is dead, reportedly from a fall, but now suspicious and 485 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: severe head injuries have been determined, not only that his 486 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: body covered in cigarette burns. Is it true that little 487 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: Anthony is the victim? I'm not only his killer, but 488 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: of Child Protective Services who has received no less than 489 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: six stain called warning him the little boy was being 490 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: horribly abused. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank 491 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: you for being with us, joining me right now. Crime 492 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: online dot Com contributing investigative reporter Robin will Lensky. Robin, 493 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: what can you tell me about the discovery a little 494 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: Anthony's body? Well, this is a horrendous case of child abuse, clearly, Nancy, 495 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: that had gone on for quite some time. Um. They 496 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,719 Speaker 1: found him with head injuries and he was covered in 497 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: cigarette burns. You know, one can only imagine the pain 498 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: that this little boy was in. Um. You know, he 499 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: was one of eight children arranging an age from eleven 500 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: months to twelve years old. Horrendous abuse. Uh. The child 501 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: Prospective services called over and over again and absolutely nothing 502 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: was done. We were talking about the death a little 503 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: ten year old Anthony Avelos. Take a listen to his 504 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: aunt talking about Anthony's death. He was such a wonderful child, 505 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: full of life. How does the child's fault and this happens? 506 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: He told us that he he would get locked up 507 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: and he wasn't allowed to use the bathroom. Anthony deserves 508 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: justice and the rest of my nieces and nephews did 509 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: not deserve to go back to her. They don't. That 510 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 1: is the aunt um Anthony Ovelos talking about the child's death. 511 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: But when question the Department of childa Family Services Director 512 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: Bobby Cable says this, well, you have to have uh 513 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: a level of proof in order to get a court 514 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: to give you an order of that type. Once you 515 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: have a child erkent't that somewhat compromises your ability to 516 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 1: get those warrants. He had a severe head injury consistent 517 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: of a brain lead, plus bruises and abrasions all about 518 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: his body, all that indicates me that that's non accidental. 519 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Professor of Forensics at 520 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, The 521 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: Journey of a Southern Death investigator Joe Scott, this albs Okay, 522 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: that's a technical legal term. You might want to include 523 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: it as a footnote in your next book. Because this 524 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: child did not die from a fall. You don't get 525 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: injuries like this, saying you can't get a head injury 526 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: from a fall, but your body isn't covered in bruises 527 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: of this nature. Plus the cigarette burns from a fall. Yeah, anytime, 528 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: anytime someone approaches me with a case like this and 529 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 1: they say, yeah, he the child or the person was involved, 530 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: they this is saying to fall, I'd say, well, how 531 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: many damn times did they fall? Because this child looks 532 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: like you know, from what I'm hearing, is if the 533 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: child had been through multiple car accidents. Not only do 534 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 1: you have this nasty closed head injury that kind of 535 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: finalized everything, You've also got these little circular burns all 536 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: over his body. And I've seen these in case after 537 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: case after case over my career, Nancy, where someone was 538 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: essentially using this poor little angel as an ash tray 539 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: and this is a painful, painful way to die. Uh. 540 00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: Not to mention anything that they had done to him 541 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: and he didn't receive further treatment. You have all kinds 542 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: of problems that can develop from that, like secondary infections 543 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: and things like this tortures life that this child obviously led. 544 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: Maria Baron, Anthony's aunt, said that she had frequently voiced 545 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 1: her concerns about Anthony's mother, Heather Baron, and her living 546 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: boyfriend Kareem Leva to Ashley Wilcot, juvenile judge, lawyer founder 547 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: a child crime watch dot com. Ashley, I'm not buying 548 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: any of this business about a fall. As a matter 549 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: of fact, this child and the siblings should have been 550 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: taken out of the home a long time ago. That 551 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: aunt has been calling CPS is two thousand and fifteen. 552 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: Now the boy is dead. What do you think they've 553 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: got enough evidence now, Ashley? Two words, system failed. There 554 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: were over sixteen reports over an extended period of time 555 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: of different types of abuse to this particular child. The 556 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: eight agency should have done more. Has missed something, and 557 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: it's absolutely incumbent that everyone is aware. How do we 558 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: prevent this in the future, because this should not have happened. 559 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: This agency failed. I do not believe it was a fall. 560 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: They abused this child to death. There were twelve complaints 561 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: for sure, although the aunt says fifteen between two thousand 562 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: and thirty and two thousand sixteen, including claims of sex 563 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: abuse on the child made by a grandparent. I mean, 564 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: how can that be ignored? Robin Willinsky joining US Crime 565 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, Robin, I mean, how can 566 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: CPS this guy, Bobby Cagele, stand up with a straight 567 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: face and exhibit no concern about all the complaints his 568 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: agency had failed to act upon. Nancy The agency is 569 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: totally negligent. How can you look at this boy's skin 570 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: and see the bumps and bruises, see the cigarette burns 571 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: which are so obvious. There are allegations that the mother 572 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: and the boyfriend withheld food from these kids, Nancy forced 573 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: them to eat from the trash can, and even an 574 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 1: allegation from the aunt that they were dangled upside down 575 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: from a staircase. I mean, how sick is that it 576 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: wasn't just the family as well. There were school administrators, teachers, 577 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: a counselor all calling in, in addition to what Robin 578 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: Rolinsky is telling us about by the aunt and the 579 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: grandparents all calling in begging for defects to do something. 580 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: The children aged eleven months to twelve years old, Anthony 581 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,959 Speaker 1: being just ten years old, all of them at risk, 582 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: sexually use, beaten, bruised, forced to have a kid fight club, 583 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: making the children fight each other, eat from the trash. 584 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: All of this is from Department Child Family Services Director 585 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: Bobby Cagel. So explain something to me, Ashley. Why isn't 586 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: defacts being held accountable? Well, listen, you all mainly recall 587 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: the commissioner, Bobby Cagel was the previous commissioner of DHS 588 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: here in Georgia, and he is going to I will 589 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: say this, I do believe he will do a very, 590 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: very and thorough investigation into what happened. And the actually 591 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: about an investigation that why he's dead. I want to 592 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: know why they didn't take him out of the home. 593 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: And that's what I was gonna say. I have never 594 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: seen an agency in any state come out and say, oh, 595 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: our fault, we dropped the ball neglect. We did this, 596 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: we shouldn't have and this he shouldn't have been killed. 597 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: It's on us. They don't do that right, they go 598 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: into bureaucratic protection mode. And that's why it's so important 599 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: you air shows like this for everyone to realize the 600 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: only way we can make the system better is to 601 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: hold them accountable, because that doesn't currently exist. I'm just 602 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: looking right now of a photo of this little child 603 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: in the hospital. Uh, it looks like he's got a 604 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: neck brace on. He's got all sorts of things strapped 605 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: to his head. His face is covered in bruises. I 606 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: see a cigarette burn on the side the right side 607 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:42,359 Speaker 1: of his chest, almost under his arm. Karen Stark, Um, 608 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: I need a shrink in a big way. How can 609 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: parents do this to little children? But you're not talking 610 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: about your everyday, wonderful parent, Nancy. You're talking about people 611 00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: who are staudistic and don't have a conscience, and so 612 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: they're displacing any unhappiness that they have, unfortunately onto these 613 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: children and acting out their own fantasies as thick as 614 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: it may be. And really it's just horrendous to consider 615 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: that there were reports being made people trying to do 616 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 1: something about it, and no one was able to pull 617 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: these kids away from the home because these are not 618 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: fit parents, and they're not the parents that you encounter 619 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: when you go to a PTA meeting and you deal with, 620 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, so called normal parents. These are people who 621 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,800 Speaker 1: want to punish their children and want them to gardens. 622 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,840 Speaker 1: Joseph S. Goot Morgan with me UM forensics expert and 623 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Just Scott, what more 624 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: can you tell me about this child's body? Well, he 625 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: languished Nancy over uh protracted period of time. Uh. This 626 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:11,320 Speaker 1: was not uh, this was not a uh a death 627 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: that came swiftly to him. It was something that was torturous. 628 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,439 Speaker 1: It was long. Uh. You know, we've we've got these 629 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,279 Speaker 1: images of him laying on ICU being able to you know, 630 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: where they're having to assist him with just breathing. Uh. 631 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: It culminated, I think and in a long, um, a 632 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: long torturous and uh to to his life with me. 633 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 1: Atlanta Prosecutor Kenya Johnson Kenya weigh in, it is amazing 634 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: that in this day and age that this could go 635 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: on to such a level and not even the community 636 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 1: step in. I understand that they made phone calls, but 637 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: who did something? Who was actually in this child's life 638 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: that uh could have intervened in just these children period. Uh. 639 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,760 Speaker 1: We want to look at see if they were getting 640 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: financial assistance from welfare. Was their case manager that was 641 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: to be checking in on them regularly. Um, there's so 642 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 1: many questions, so many people had eyes on this that 643 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: they should have been outraged. The principle should have refused 644 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: to let the children go home at night. Uh, They're 645 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,359 Speaker 1: just there's so many things that people could have done 646 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,359 Speaker 1: to step in, But those that are most comminally responsible 647 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: are those that were charged with taking care of these kids, 648 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: which are going to be the state and their parents. 649 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: And now we are learning that there are reports, unverified reports, 650 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,720 Speaker 1: but reports Karen start New York psychologists that just before 651 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: his horrific murder, he had studied the words that he 652 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,839 Speaker 1: liked boys. Some people have taken that to mean that 653 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: he announced that he was gay and then is dead. Well, 654 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,760 Speaker 1: you know, he may have announced that he was gay, 655 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: but I don't know how that has anything to do. 656 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: You know, that's very brave on his part, but that 657 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the fact that he was 658 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,839 Speaker 1: abused and that he should have been taken out of 659 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:25,440 Speaker 1: that home. Um, it makes you wonder whether there wasn't 660 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,319 Speaker 1: something going on at school as well, where kids were 661 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: teasing him and cruel. But if you add back to 662 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: the psychological trauma of being in that situation at home, 663 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: the horrific set of circumstances it has, it has very 664 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: little to do with what we're talking about. You know what, 665 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: I don't understand something. I'm gonna say this to you. 666 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot found her child crime watch dot com. Why 667 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: don't we are so much about the Turpin family in 668 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,920 Speaker 1: California the House of Horrors? What? Because they were educated 669 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 1: it and had money and a beautiful home that their 670 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: children And I'm not saying they're not important to me, 671 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,799 Speaker 1: because they are. But nobody seems to care about this 672 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: little kid. It's like nothing and the whole family was mistreated. 673 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why. Clearly, I think there's evidence for 674 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 1: certain crimes, and I will say this and it's really 675 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,399 Speaker 1: a shame, But the reality is, regrettably often demographics play 676 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: role and who pays attention and cares about a child 677 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,319 Speaker 1: and a murder going free or not? We wait as 678 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 1: the investigation unfolds and Frankly, I think a criminal investigation 679 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: needs to be launched on de Facts Department of Family 680 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:55,240 Speaker 1: and Children's Services. Right now, we remember American hero Officer 681 00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: Jillian Michelle Smith, Arlington, Texas police officer. She graduated University 682 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,240 Speaker 1: Texas comb laude with a bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice 683 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,279 Speaker 1: and Criminology. A longtime member of Mount Olive Baptist Church 684 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: in Arlington, Smith had just completed her FUELD training fifteen 685 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: days before she was shot down in the line of 686 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: duty as she was shielding an eleven year old little girl. 687 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,640 Speaker 1: Jillian Michelle Smith leaves behind grieving parents Douglas and Sonja, 688 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,840 Speaker 1: sister Jessica, and nephew Cameron, and many other loving relatives 689 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: who missed her Dearly Officer Julian Michelle Smith, American hero 690 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:52,319 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime Story signing off goodbye friend. There's a 691 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people 692 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,480 Speaker 1: with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad 693 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: feeling about somebody may be suspected your partners cheating, maybe 694 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,880 Speaker 1: worried about your online reputation. If you answer yes to 695 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder public 696 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:16,279 Speaker 1: records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like 697 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 1: truth Finder, you most likely have to visit a courthouse 698 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: to get that information. Now it's as simple as entering 699 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 1: a name. Truth Finder sifts through millions of public records 700 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 1: from all over the country, assembling them into one easy 701 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: to read report. Search the names of somebody you know. 702 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:37,359 Speaker 1: You could find criminal and arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information, 703 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 1: social dating profiles, financial assets, and a lot more. Why 704 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,359 Speaker 1: fork out thousands to a private investigator when you can 705 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,160 Speaker 1: do the job yourself. Everybody you know has something to hide. 706 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,280 Speaker 1: Now you can root out the most dangerous people before 707 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: you become the next victim. It's not just used to 708 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,800 Speaker 1: us bad people. Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, 709 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: even people who served with them in the military. It's 710 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,239 Speaker 1: never been so easy to find the truth. Go to 711 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,520 Speaker 1: truth finder dot com slash Nancy and enter any name 712 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:14,520 Speaker 1: to get started.