Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball.
Speaker 3: In a bright egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida Egg,
Speaker 3: Frida Egg, frid Egg Egg, Frida Egg, Bride Egg Lie,
Speaker 3: I'm about ready to run off the.
Speaker 2: The Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. We are
Speaker 2: here the final major of the year. It's wild. I'm
Speaker 2: still getting used to this setup where you got the
Speaker 2: players in March and then it's just this like insane
Speaker 2: sprint and before you know it, you blink, Uh, you blink.
Speaker 2: You can't blink during live, but if you blink during
Speaker 2: major season, the season's over. And here we are for
Speaker 2: the final men's major of the year, the Open Championship
Speaker 2: at Royal Birkdale. Birkedale obviously a storied, storied championship host
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about it in this preview episode.
Speaker 2: I'm joined by Kevin van Valkenberg and Joseph Labanna on
Speaker 2: the front end of this the back end, I'm going
Speaker 2: to talk with Derek Gary. He a friend of the
Speaker 2: Frida Egg from Ireland who's played basically all the great
Speaker 2: links courses in Great Britain and Ireland and has played
Speaker 2: Royal Birkdale a bunch. He's written on the website before
Speaker 2: for us and has been a wonderful contributor to the
Speaker 2: Frida Egg over the years. So it's great to talk
Speaker 2: to Dara, and then obviously Kevin and Joseph. Joseph recently
Speaker 2: did a kind of a strike mission to Royal Birkdale,
Speaker 2: so he'll give some of his thoughts on the golf
Speaker 2: course after spending a week over playing some of the
Speaker 2: great links courses in England. So Birkdale is kind of
Speaker 2: the most modern of the RODA courses in the Open
Speaker 2: and it's got an illustrious list of winners. It's widely
Speaker 2: known as the most fair Test and the champions kind
Speaker 2: of reveal a lot of people that won a lot
Speaker 2: of majors. So Peter Thompson won in fifty four, Arnold
Speaker 2: Palmer in sixty one, Peter Thompson in sixty five, Lee
Speaker 2: Trevino and seventy one, Johnny Miller in seventy six, Tom
Speaker 2: Watson in eighty three, Ian Baker Finch in ninety one,
Speaker 2: Mark o'meira in ninety eight, Padrick Harrington in two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight and Jordan Speith in twenty seventeen, so this
Speaker 2: will be the eleventh time it has hosted the Open Championship.
Speaker 2: Before we get to Kevin and Joseph, today's episode and
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Speaker 2: to be an official patron of the Open Championship. All right,
Speaker 2: let's welcome in, Kevin van Valkenberg and Joseph Lamannia, guys
Speaker 2: off the top. You know we're gonna do three things,
Speaker 2: so this is one, you know. I feel like this
Speaker 2: is a consistent talking point every time we get here.
Speaker 2: Do we like this this major schedule? Do we like
Speaker 2: this being so condensed?
Speaker 3: No, I would love it if we were stretching into August.
Speaker 3: I think that would be a lot better in terms
Speaker 3: of the rhythm of the season. It would feel like
Speaker 3: I'm already lamenting that the World Cup is almost over,
Speaker 3: and I'm feeling because I've had so much fun getting
Speaker 3: into the World Cup, And I feel like if you
Speaker 3: got interested in golf and all of a sudden it
Speaker 3: was going so fast, you would feel like, oh man,
Speaker 3: I want I want this to go a little bit longer.
Speaker 3: I just miss the old schedule. When we're stretching into August.
Speaker 2: The World Cup is like a wrecking ball by the way,
Speaker 2: to like anything like Wimbledon is like humming, and I
Speaker 2: feel like, you see, there's like nothing about Wimbledon going on,
Speaker 2: and I feel like golf, the buzz around golf spent
Speaker 2: a little muted. And it's because all all the world
Speaker 2: is watching the World Cup.
Speaker 4: They have to adjust the open dates with the Olympics
Speaker 4: too in a couple of years. No, I don't love
Speaker 4: this current schedule, but I think also when it comes
Speaker 4: talking about the PGA tour schedule or the major schedule,
Speaker 4: I've kind of come to accept that there's really no
Speaker 4: perfect answer and it is really hard. I think it
Speaker 4: was better before, but it is what it is. It
Speaker 4: doesn't kill me.
Speaker 3: It's interesting any Like, I think just one file fub
Speaker 3: that like had a really hot summer last year, right
Speaker 3: and so one, you know, two of the four majors.
Speaker 3: I think maybe we thought that that kind of thing,
Speaker 3: like somebody gets hot and they could just reel off
Speaker 3: a couple of majors. So, you know, unless it's like
Speaker 3: Wyndham this week, it would be hard to sort of
Speaker 3: feel like that's held up right there. This year. I
Speaker 3: don't know if we get four different major winners it
Speaker 3: doesn't quite support the theory that you know, you can
Speaker 3: just get hot for a stretch and peel off a
Speaker 3: bunch for history.
Speaker 2: All right, what's everybody's first thing? Who wants to start?
Speaker 3: I'll go first. You know you mentioned this a little
Speaker 3: bit at the beginning, Andy, is Birkdale the fairest of
Speaker 3: the on the open rota? What I would say is,
Speaker 3: what's a more interesting question is is Birkdale more likely
Speaker 3: to reward people who are great in history? So if
Speaker 3: you do a little bit of just you know, research,
Speaker 3: Ian Baker Finch is the only person to win at
Speaker 3: Birkdale who didn't win multiple majors, And you know, there's
Speaker 3: probably reasons for that in some ways, like Bigger Finch
Speaker 3: kind of got the yips, completely lost his game trying
Speaker 3: to hit it longer, felt like he should compete in
Speaker 3: other majors. But Arnie, Peter Thompson, Leech, Trevino, Tom Watson,
Speaker 3: Johnny Miller, Padrick Harrington, Jordan Speith. That is a like
Speaker 3: Murderer's row of multiple major winners spanning across you know,
Speaker 3: from all the way from nineteen sixty to twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: Last time we were here, What does that mean, it
Speaker 3: doesn't probably mean anything. You know, Joseph, as the stats guy,
Speaker 3: you would probably say, like, there's a lot of variants
Speaker 3: in there. But you know, if we're gonna sort of
Speaker 3: look at it with history, does that does that mean
Speaker 3: it's just really hard to win here as your first
Speaker 3: time Peter Thompson is the only guy who's first major
Speaker 3: of that stretch was at Birkdale. He ended up winning
Speaker 3: Birkdale again in sixty five. So I don't know, like
Speaker 3: if you follow historical trends, like does that mean Fleetwood,
Speaker 3: Patton can't Ley Ludwig, guys are not going to post that,
Speaker 3: or we just is it something that's just kind of
Speaker 3: like a kind of too much noise in it. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I think I kind of like the idea
Speaker 3: that Burkedale rewards people who are going to rack up
Speaker 3: a bunch of majors. Uh, And I think, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe that means you know what a Koepka or read
Speaker 3: Scottie Rory, someone there, someone who has shown like, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm going to add this to my historical resume.
Speaker 2: Joseph, why in your estimation would the thought be that
Speaker 2: Birkdale is the fairest test of the open courses having
Speaker 2: just been there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think this is as unsatisfying as it is
Speaker 4: to say both things are true. I think both things
Speaker 4: are true that if you looked at a lot of
Speaker 4: golf courses, regardless of the extent to which they rewarded fairness,
Speaker 4: they'd have a murderer's row of winners. A lot of
Speaker 4: great players win major championships. And you know, Matt Kucher
Speaker 4: had the lead with a few holes to play, would
Speaker 4: we still consider it a murder's row? If Matt Coucher
Speaker 4: had waned to speak.
Speaker 2: It'd be a It would be more fuel that the
Speaker 2: players as a major if Matt Kutcher had one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. But I do think this golf course, whether
Speaker 4: you want to call it fair, whether you want to
Speaker 4: call it it rewards skill, whether you want to call
Speaker 4: it more predictable than the other open venues. I think
Speaker 4: what you see at Brickdale is a very effective job
Speaker 4: at graduated penalty of you know, fairways that are narrow,
Speaker 4: but you can hit them. If you miss by a
Speaker 4: little bit, there's a penalty associated with it. You'll find
Speaker 4: your ball, but it's not you know, it's playable. And
Speaker 4: then if you get pretty far off you can get
Speaker 4: into some pretty thick vegetation areas. Not a lot of
Speaker 4: blind shots, not a lot of water hazards. There are,
Speaker 4: there are some holes where water is in play, but
Speaker 4: it's it's really not in play, like you'd have to
Speaker 4: hit something pretty far off line to end up in
Speaker 4: the water. And those are characteristics that tend to be
Speaker 4: more predictive. There's not like massive runoff areas and a
Speaker 4: lot of spots that you know, you could chip one
Speaker 4: and it comes back to your feet and one of
Speaker 4: the best players in the field runs into a seven
Speaker 4: like that. That's just not going to happen as much
Speaker 4: at Brookdale. I think you'll hear a lot of players
Speaker 4: say it's fair, it's right in front of you. But
Speaker 4: I think a lot of that has to do with it,
Speaker 4: you know, being a I think of it as a
Speaker 4: collection of eighteen strongholds. There's not one signature hole. Again
Speaker 4: like seventeen at Sawgrass that can be a little funky,
Speaker 4: but signature. To me, it's a collection of eighteen holes
Speaker 4: that are a really good test.
Speaker 2: Some of all parts. I think the other thing flatter
Speaker 2: lies than most links courses, less fair way undulation, so
Speaker 2: you know, listen, I am always going to be a
Speaker 2: little bit more on the golf is inherently unfair, so
Speaker 2: our golf courses should have some quirk and you know,
Speaker 2: aspects to them that are irregular. That being said, I
Speaker 2: think that this is you know, a firm like must
Speaker 2: visit Open Road to golf course. Is it going to
Speaker 2: be my favorite?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: But I think for a lot of people, if they
Speaker 2: played all the Open Road To courses, this would be
Speaker 2: their favorite. And it's just you know, like golf course
Speaker 2: tastes is is everybody's different. You know, everybody has a
Speaker 2: different opinion. And I think you know, from from an
Speaker 2: equitability standpoint, it does create a situation that that allows
Speaker 2: and you know, Scottie Scheffler to love this place based
Speaker 2: off of you know, his comments about fairness and you know,
Speaker 2: if you if you zero in on what he said
Speaker 2: at Pinehurst, you know, I think, uh, it'll be I
Speaker 2: you know, I expect to have a big name when here.
Speaker 2: Uh you know, I think the weather is it has
Speaker 2: been scorching there, so the golf course is going to
Speaker 2: be very dry. You know, just seeing pictures of other
Speaker 2: Links courses right now in the area, Uh, this place
Speaker 2: is you know we've gotten treated. I think like back
Speaker 2: to the Carnoustie uh Mullinari uh open where it was
Speaker 2: just baked out.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: I think there's a recipe for that type of setup.
Speaker 2: I do you know, wonder if the wind will blow
Speaker 2: based off of the forecast. You know, tends to not
Speaker 2: blow as much when it's really warm there, and and
Speaker 2: the forecast looks like fantastic. It's early, it's really it's
Speaker 2: Friday before. It's too early to like any island to
Speaker 2: know exactly what the weather is going to be. But
Speaker 2: it's clear as crap and warm, so I'm guessing we're
Speaker 2: gonna get really firm but minimal wind. So I uh
Speaker 2: I that is kind of my thoughts. I'm Birkdale in general.
Speaker 2: I think like we've had like the golf course becomes
Speaker 2: the story, and it was such the story at at Arono,
Speaker 2: mink And and Shinnacock. I actually think this is one
Speaker 2: of those majors where the golf course isn't going to
Speaker 2: be the main story.
Speaker 4: I guess while we're here then that's one of mine,
Speaker 4: is what people think of the golf course. So Andy,
Speaker 4: I guess you're saying that's not going to be one
Speaker 4: of the prevailing narratives, but I'm kind of interested. I
Speaker 4: think the most interesting facet of Birkdale to me is
Speaker 4: that there seems to be a diversity of opinions about
Speaker 4: the golf course within the circle of people who really
Speaker 4: care about golf courses and who really study golf courses.
Speaker 4: Because I think a lot of major venues there's sort
Speaker 4: of a separation, like people who are really into golf
Speaker 4: courses might like this place, but then like a lot
Speaker 4: of fans don't love it. I think about places like
Speaker 4: LACC in that conversation. This feels like one where, Yeah,
Speaker 4: people who are really into golf courses have different, different opinions,
Speaker 4: and that's fascinating to me. There's a lot of real puists,
Speaker 4: real students of the game who think Birkdale's one of
Speaker 4: the premier venues, and I think a lot of other
Speaker 4: people who had put it near the bottom. So maybe
Speaker 4: it's not going to be one of the main storylines,
Speaker 4: but that's something I'm curious how you guys think about
Speaker 4: this golf course coming in and then how your opinion
Speaker 4: evolves throughout the rest of the tournament. I don't know, Kevin,
Speaker 4: where you are on Birkdale.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was there in twenty seventeen. It was the
Speaker 3: second Open Championship that I ever covered. You know, I
Speaker 3: remember feeling like this is a fun venue. I one
Speaker 3: of my things was how hard will Burkdale play. Obviously
Speaker 3: there's been some changes to the course. I was there
Speaker 3: when Brandon Grace shot sixty two, which at the time
Speaker 3: was the lowest ever round in a major. You know,
Speaker 3: Xander and Ricky Foller tied it at LCC and then
Speaker 3: Shane Lowry shot at sixty two at Valhalla, so you know,
Speaker 3: it doesn't hold up on his own. But it just
Speaker 3: didn't feel that round by Brandon Grace didn't feel particularly special,
Speaker 3: but the course certainly felt special, like when Speeth and
Speaker 3: Coucher were kind of throwing darts at each other in
Speaker 3: that back nine for a little bit, particularly speed the
Speaker 3: run that he went on. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think, like I love that it is part of
Speaker 3: the rotation. I think just because it's got a lot
Speaker 3: of cool history and it's a you know, it has
Speaker 3: pretty good sight lines in terms of seeing, you know, stuff,
Speaker 3: in terms of walking along as fans, it just doesn't
Speaker 3: really as you think. I said at the beginning. Like
Speaker 3: the fact that it doesn't have like a hole that
Speaker 3: you're really looking forward to it's coming up, I think
Speaker 3: is a little bit of a downside, but you know
Speaker 3: there is you know, a gettable par five on the back.
Speaker 3: It does have, you know, an interesting sort of close.
Speaker 3: The par fives are late in the rotation, so it
Speaker 3: is you know, it's not like anyone is out of
Speaker 3: it when you know you can make an eagle late.
Speaker 3: I like it. I wish I wish it had one
Speaker 3: hole that just felt like, oh man, I'm so excited
Speaker 3: to see them play this shot. But I think it's
Speaker 3: still a good part of the rotation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to further elaborate on you know what I said
Speaker 2: earlier about it not being like the main character, I
Speaker 2: think when you look at the way Ironoming played, it
Speaker 2: like thrust itself into the discourse because it was like
Speaker 2: we hadn't seeing a PGA play that way in a while.
Speaker 2: It was you had you saw players just kind of
Speaker 2: flu mixed by a variety of things. Then you have
Speaker 2: shinnakock this in your face, like this is you know,
Speaker 2: as hard as golf can get for for high level players.
Speaker 2: I think this is one that kind of just like
Speaker 2: rolls the ball out unless the guys go play. And
Speaker 2: I think you know, from that standpoint, there's no devastatingly
Speaker 2: challenging holes, there's no devastatingly hard features. What it requires
Speaker 2: is you, you know, I always love the Jeff Ogilvie
Speaker 2: talking about stroke play tournaments professional golf. It requires you
Speaker 2: to build a really soundhouse. And round one you're laying
Speaker 2: the foundation. And you know, when you have cracks, it's
Speaker 2: going to show up later and it's going to be
Speaker 2: who can who can build the most proficient house, the
Speaker 2: most you know. And I think that the golf course
Speaker 2: taking a backstage isn't always a bad thing. I'm always
Speaker 2: going to want something that like really puts people in
Speaker 2: unique positions. I don't think this golf course and I
Speaker 2: you know, to kurktail all this, I haven't been there.
Speaker 2: This is just me studying it from abroad, you know,
Speaker 2: having covered the the twenty the Speeth Open twenty seventeen
Speaker 2: at home. You know, I think like this golf course,
Speaker 2: it requires a lot of skill. It is one that
Speaker 2: is going to grind you down over eighteen holes, and
Speaker 2: you can't hit loose shots, as Joseph elaborated, but there's
Speaker 2: nothing out of this world that you haven't seen before.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think to that part of maybe where this
Speaker 4: course suffers from its from what people think about is
Speaker 4: I think a lot of the strength of the course
Speaker 4: are kind of earlier in the round. Like I think
Speaker 4: the first twelve holes are some of the best holes
Speaker 4: in the most interesting variety, and probably generally we think
Speaker 4: about professional golf venues when it has a wildly entertaining
Speaker 4: closing stretch, that tends to be something that people like.
Speaker 4: But to your point, Andy, what I would just emphasize
Speaker 4: from having been there and then you know, looking at
Speaker 4: some of the past winners and rewatching some of those tournaments,
Speaker 4: the shot value is really high. It just is like
Speaker 4: there's some elevated tea boxes where if there's wind, you
Speaker 4: have to strike the ball well, you have to be
Speaker 4: able to control your trajectory. So I think to your
Speaker 4: point about will the golf course be the main character,
Speaker 4: you know, probably not, but if the wind does blow,
Speaker 4: I know it's not forecast too, but if it does
Speaker 4: pick up, it's going to be a really fun test
Speaker 4: that I think people are going to be pretty grabbed by.
Speaker 2: M hmm, all right, that'll get me to I guess
Speaker 2: my first thing here unless anybody has any more on
Speaker 2: the golf course that they want to go into while
Speaker 2: we're here.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of there's changes that the changes are
Speaker 4: going to be a popular talking point, but I don't
Speaker 4: think they're gonna have a super significant tacked on the tournament,
Speaker 4: But go ahead.
Speaker 2: The thing, the big thing I would hit on is
Speaker 2: like this golf course has evolved from it's basically history.
Speaker 2: It is a constantly evolving golf course, you know, And
Speaker 2: and I think that's the thing one of the aspects
Speaker 2: of it. It was intended to be a championship golf
Speaker 2: course and evolved as professional golf has evolved. I think
Speaker 2: what I'm most interested in, uh this week is is
Speaker 2: going to be Rory McElroy. I think him and Scotty
Speaker 2: are at the top of the board for various reasons.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, and I'm sure we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about Scotty. Scotti's is more of like is he
Speaker 2: going to go are we on this incredible run? And
Speaker 2: is he going to go a bagel be a bagel
Speaker 2: boy on majors in twenty twenty six? For Rory, to me,
Speaker 2: it's really can he get that second major in a year,
Speaker 2: it would be, you know, the second time in his
Speaker 2: career they won two majors in a year. Not many
Speaker 2: players in the history of golf have won multiple majors
Speaker 2: in multiple years. On top of that, I think the
Speaker 2: other big talking point, and it's been brought up this
Speaker 2: week at the Genesis Scottish is just how little golf
Speaker 2: he's played and you know, and that's like a question
Speaker 2: I would have is like, has he you know, we
Speaker 2: used to hear Tiger talk about competitive reps all the time,
Speaker 2: and has he played enough golf to win a major?
Speaker 2: Because in the lead up to the Masters, he played
Speaker 2: a good chunk of golf, Like just the nature of
Speaker 2: the way the calendar breaks in the early season. You've
Speaker 2: got Pebble, Genesis, Arnold Palmer players, he's playing, you know,
Speaker 2: twice twice, you know, a bunch of tournaments in the
Speaker 2: lead up and since the since the Masters, it's just
Speaker 2: basically been a cadence of one tournament, major, tournament major.
Speaker 2: That being said, it could be roughly the same exact
Speaker 2: you know, it's roughly the same about of golf. It's
Speaker 2: just less regular events before majors. And I'm just I think, like,
Speaker 2: from what I've seen, I don't think he's been quite
Speaker 2: as sharp. And I say this as he leads the
Speaker 2: Scottish Open through two rounds. He hasn't been. You know,
Speaker 2: he wasn't as sharp at the PGA. He wasn't as
Speaker 2: sharp at the at the US Open as he was
Speaker 2: at the Masters. But that's golf. That's kind of the
Speaker 2: way it works. I think from a mindset perspective, he
Speaker 2: is in the best mindset about golf that he's ever been.
Speaker 2: It feels like he is really at peace with like
Speaker 2: how golf fits into his life. And I think that
Speaker 2: will yield a lot more satisfying finishes at major championships.
Speaker 2: And this would this would scream to me as a
Speaker 2: golf course, if it's firm that he would play quite
Speaker 2: well at I.
Speaker 3: Would totally agree. Andy. I think, uh no one has
Speaker 3: ever like in the modern game, really been better at
Speaker 3: fixing their own flaws and their own swing than Rory.
Speaker 3: Like he you know, you see Scotty like having to
Speaker 3: work through stuff with Randy Smith or the people you
Speaker 3: know on the range, Like Rory's really good at like
Speaker 3: figuring out what's going on wrong with me and fighting
Speaker 3: those subtle tweaks, and I think that we are sort
Speaker 3: of trending through like a point in the summer where
Speaker 3: he's like been playing pretty good but then had some
Speaker 3: time off to sort of get really dialed and you
Speaker 3: know how badly like he would love another Open Championship
Speaker 3: just being you know, from you know, the that area.
Speaker 3: And I think that truly, like I totally agree. I
Speaker 3: think that this course sets up better for him than
Speaker 3: any of the courses this year other than the Masters.
Speaker 3: Like I just feel like the line between like, you know,
Speaker 3: hitting a good shot that isn't warded whatever isn't quite
Speaker 3: as thin like as it was at Shinnakock, and so
Speaker 3: he can get away with like a little bit of
Speaker 3: loose stuff here and then his talent can make up
Speaker 3: for like, you know what, now I'm gonna go on
Speaker 3: a four birdie's and six hole run. I really think
Speaker 3: he would absolutely be the favorite coming in.
Speaker 2: I think, like one of the other things is just
Speaker 2: his experience in majors. There is like just this level
Speaker 2: of I think he's mentally got to a place where
Speaker 2: he like really understands what he has to do to
Speaker 2: be where he wants to be, Like and whether like
Speaker 2: everybody's going to point to Shittacock, Oh, what a disappointing finish. Like,
Speaker 2: the reality of Shittacock was he was like right where
Speaker 2: he needed to be on Saturday, and he played a
Speaker 2: terrible nine holes of golf. And that's you don't win
Speaker 2: a major if you play bad nine holes of golf,
Speaker 2: generally on a high leverage moment. So you know, when
Speaker 2: you think about think about that like he I think
Speaker 2: the reality that people don't think about enough with majors
Speaker 2: is like, really, the the first two rounds is really
Speaker 2: just about getting you into a position to have a
Speaker 2: shot on the weekend.
Speaker 4: I think this is a great litmus test for Rory
Speaker 4: and we've talked often about how he's the most complete
Speaker 4: version of himself, that he's a much better player now
Speaker 4: than he was ten to fifteen years ago. The iron
Speaker 4: play has been pretty sharp this year, the driving accuracy
Speaker 4: has been a little bit hit or miss. So I
Speaker 4: think with particularly this golf course Brickdale, it does mute
Speaker 4: one of his biggest strengths, which is power. And it's
Speaker 4: not a golf course that you can overpower. It's not
Speaker 4: a golf course that you can freely swing away with driver,
Speaker 4: it's gonna take driver out of his hands often. It'll
Speaker 4: be interesting to see like some of these dog legs
Speaker 4: where Rory tries to go over corners and where he
Speaker 4: plays with an iron off of the team more conservatively.
Speaker 4: So I think it's a great It's not like my
Speaker 4: dream fit for Rory. I think there are some ways
Speaker 4: in which a his power being muted and be Sometimes
Speaker 4: he has a tendency to get a little wide with
Speaker 4: the driver, especially this year, like it could get him
Speaker 4: into some trouble. But I think the flip side of
Speaker 4: that is, yes, he is the most complete player he's been.
Speaker 4: If he's hitting some irons off T's and he's a
Speaker 4: little sharp with his iron play, he could be right
Speaker 4: in the mix. So to me, it's just a great
Speaker 4: litmus test of where Rory's game currently stands. And yes,
Speaker 4: the driving accuracy has been a problem. He didn't drive
Speaker 4: it well at Augusta despite winning. But you know there
Speaker 4: are ways around that he can either if he's feeling good,
Speaker 4: you know, go over some corners. Six is a good
Speaker 4: example was rewatching twenty seventeen, and Rory's just going right
Speaker 4: over the dog leg with a driver. He's being aggressive.
Speaker 4: If he's not feeling as good with it, he'll at
Speaker 4: least have the option to down. So I think it'd
Speaker 4: be really interesting to see that Rory the tactician, the
Speaker 4: way he decides to attack this golf course. And then
Speaker 4: then also we'll get a good litmus test for how
Speaker 4: sharp Hiss iron plays, which is going to be a
Speaker 4: huge factor for him.
Speaker 2: The I think, you know, it's fascinating what you look
Speaker 2: at where he's moved himself up, where we've gone from
Speaker 2: this this drought. Will he ever win a major again?
Speaker 2: Now he's won two Masters, and you you know, he's
Speaker 2: moved to six majors in the modern era. You know,
Speaker 2: if he gets one more, there's the players ahead of
Speaker 2: him in majors, the only only players ahead of him
Speaker 2: in major totals or Nicholas Woods, Hagan, Hogan and Player
Speaker 2: and Watson. I mean, if he gets another one and
Speaker 2: maybe one other one, he's in it. Like when you
Speaker 2: talk about Mount rush like when you get to the
Speaker 2: discussion of who's the Mount Rushmore of golf. I think
Speaker 2: if he gets to eight, he has a legit argument
Speaker 2: to be on Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 3: I you know what, that's a pretty bold statement, but
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't want to shoot it down right away,
Speaker 3: because like if you're saying Rory's got seven more years
Speaker 3: of being like a truly, like you know, injury free,
Speaker 3: hopefully good player, I would bet on getting one at
Speaker 3: least one or two more majors out of that.
Speaker 2: It's it's a pretty wild situation because like he's just
Speaker 2: like a way from where the discourse was two years
Speaker 2: ago to now. It's like this, it just doesn't feel
Speaker 2: it felt like it was he was just stalled, and
Speaker 2: now it feels like, oh my god, like all those
Speaker 2: heaping career, like those crazy expectations that were heaped on
Speaker 2: him at twenty two are actually still all in play.
Speaker 3: I think what would be interesting to me andy two
Speaker 3: is that he'd be the only guy other than Tiger
Speaker 3: who had like a big drought, a big stall and
Speaker 3: then like found it again and one, you know, let's
Speaker 3: say three more majors after the drought, maybe four, and
Speaker 3: Tiger really only did it with one after the long drought.
Speaker 3: And so that's what's fascinating is that most people's majors
Speaker 3: other than Nicholas are compressed into a really small I
Speaker 3: guess Gary player would be maybe the other one, but
Speaker 3: it compressed into a smaller time period. And if he
Speaker 3: is winning majors into his forties, then that I think
Speaker 3: makes it a decent case of like, you're the greatest
Speaker 3: European of all time. You won all these majors in
Speaker 3: the modern era, and you did it over a course
Speaker 3: of time when you had your absolute peak prime and
Speaker 3: then your second prime. It makes a decent case.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, I you know, it is fascinating. It's just
Speaker 2: a fascinating career in terms of the whole the whole arc,
Speaker 2: everything that's that's happened. And you know, I think with
Speaker 2: everybody's talking about this reduced schedule and he's I think
Speaker 2: he's being He's been one of the smartest players ever
Speaker 2: about longevity and from probably his mid twenties on figuring out,
Speaker 2: how can I play this sport at a high level
Speaker 2: as long as I can? And I think in a
Speaker 2: way he's taking almost to Justin Rose approach, but ten
Speaker 2: years earlier than Justin Rose found this approach where you know,
Speaker 2: maybe not ten seven years earlier, where it's we're going
Speaker 2: to do everything we can to peak for these majors.
Speaker 2: Make sure my body's right, My my attitude and my
Speaker 2: you know, mental mindsets, right, and you know, and I
Speaker 2: think part of that attitude of mental mindset is at
Speaker 2: this point in Rory's life is like life off the
Speaker 2: golf course. You know, people don't people look at golf
Speaker 2: as like this dream professional golf is this dream job.
Speaker 2: And I'm not gonna say it's not right, but holy shit,
Speaker 2: if you do it for twenty years, what a monotonous
Speaker 2: life like? It is not you know, you're playing golf.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying this is, but it is not
Speaker 2: dissimilar to like some of the more monotonous jobs in
Speaker 2: the world, where it's like, all right, I punch in
Speaker 2: and this is how I go to work, and this
Speaker 2: is I do the same thing every day. You know,
Speaker 2: I go to the same cities and I have to
Speaker 2: stay at the same hotels. Like I know this might
Speaker 2: sound a little out of touch, but there is a
Speaker 2: lot of monotony in pro golf. And I think like
Speaker 2: setting yourself up mentally as you play it longer and
Speaker 2: longer gets more challenging.
Speaker 4: I was pulling it up as you were saying. He
Speaker 4: said it the Scottish yesterday. I'm nearly twenty years into
Speaker 4: this I need to do everything I can to keep
Speaker 4: my enthusiasm as high as possible, and playing a lighter
Speaker 4: schedule definitely does that. So I think to your point,
Speaker 4: Andy Rory's longevity is I mean, he's a unicorn for
Speaker 4: a lot of reasons, and playing that level of golf
Speaker 4: over twenty years, we just don't see it. We are
Speaker 4: not seeing it in the modern era, like there's nobody
Speaker 4: else doing it. You can talk about Justin Rose or
Speaker 4: Adam Scott, but those guys haven't been in the top
Speaker 4: ten consistently year and in year out for twenty years.
Speaker 4: They've peaked, but they haven't been consistently in the top
Speaker 4: ten and all the physical tools that it requires. Sure,
Speaker 4: but I think, yeah, that keeping your enthusiasm high, being
Speaker 4: motivated enough to show up every day and work hard.
Speaker 4: Like people are upset that he's skipping Memphis last year.
Speaker 4: Would you want to play the WGC Memphis or not
Speaker 4: WGC a playoff event in Memphis twenty years into your career.
Speaker 2: I just need NBA players to go to Memphis because
Speaker 2: of the hotel. Think about golfers now are jam in Memphis.
Speaker 3: I just think it's I mean, he's earned the right
Speaker 3: a little bit to choose, like a lighter schedule, like
Speaker 3: if you've won enough times, I still feel like even
Speaker 3: despite all the changes and hey, we're going to eliminate
Speaker 3: these spots whatever, Like I think that's an important part
Speaker 3: of golf's history and tradition, Like if you have accomplished
Speaker 3: all these things, you should be able to pick and
Speaker 3: choose a little bit of a lighter schedule as you
Speaker 3: go forward, Like you don't have to. You shouldn't have
Speaker 3: to be the marquee person who's holding up the tour.
Speaker 3: It ought to have to sort of have other people
Speaker 3: who are, you know, filling that role. And I just
Speaker 3: don't quite understand the outrage about it, Like, no, he
Speaker 3: should be out there like grinding every single thing. It
Speaker 3: was a different time and a different setup when he
Speaker 3: was like, hey, everybody should play in all these signature events,
Speaker 3: and people keep banging on him like you're the one
Speaker 3: who thought up this idea, man, that that might as
Speaker 3: well have been like a decade ago in terms of
Speaker 3: like how much has changed in the time of golf
Speaker 3: since then, We've had a whole lead, you know, collapse
Speaker 3: in the sense where now it's there going around begging
Speaker 3: for tax credits UH to sort of set up the
Speaker 3: future of their league, so it's it's not the same
Speaker 3: as it was.
Speaker 2: I I think the one final piece that I'll put
Speaker 2: on this is like, I mean, he's got a he's
Speaker 2: got a five year old daughter, and if you could,
Speaker 2: you know, financially, and had flexibility in your life to
Speaker 2: set up set aside time to to you know, like
Speaker 2: be present and with your with your family as much
Speaker 2: as possible, it's like he's in like the gravy position
Speaker 2: of like the the age of your kid that you
Speaker 2: want to be president in and available for all of that,
Speaker 2: you know, like you know it in seven years you
Speaker 2: get your you got a teenager, and they probably don't
Speaker 2: want to spend as much time with you, you know. And
Speaker 2: and I think there's an element of that also which
Speaker 2: he probably energizes him to play better golf, you know,
Speaker 2: and to be more interested in golf. This is where like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I I think, like somebody once told me, it's like
Speaker 2: the most the toughest thing. The type of person that
Speaker 2: tour golf's the hardest for is someone who is intellectually curious,
Speaker 2: because the monotony of it will just crush you, and
Speaker 2: you have to have pursuits outside of golf, Like I think,
Speaker 2: like of like some of my you know, one of
Speaker 2: my like Zach Blair, he goes and plays golf courses
Speaker 2: all over the place when he visits, Like he spends
Speaker 2: this way less time on site than other people. He's
Speaker 2: doing it for ten years. He's not doing it at
Speaker 2: the level of Rory, of like the caliber of play,
Speaker 2: but like that's one of the ways that he energizes
Speaker 2: himself week in week out, Like it's it's a it's
Speaker 2: a fascinating asspec. All right, let's get to the next thing.
Speaker 2: But first, let's take a break. We'll keep rolling on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break on audio platforms. All right, Joseph,
Speaker 2: what's your next thing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we should talk about Scotty. We talked a lot
Speaker 4: about Rory. Should talk about the other best player in
Speaker 4: the world, the undisputed best player in the world, Scotti Scheffler.
Speaker 4: You know he's going to be coming in off his
Speaker 4: first misscut since the twenty twenty two FedEx Saint Jude
Speaker 4: speaking of Memphis. But Scotty missed the cut this week
Speaker 4: at the Scottish Open. Certainly a surprise, but not a
Speaker 4: complete shock. If you've been watching Scotti Schffler throughout the year,
Speaker 4: and I don't want to overstate his struggles, because again,
Speaker 4: he is clearly the best player in the world, but
Speaker 4: if you've been watching weekend in week out, Scotti has
Speaker 4: been just a little bit off here and there. He's
Speaker 4: hitting uncharacteristically wide. I think his drive has a lot
Speaker 4: more curve in it. He's hitting these kind of these
Speaker 4: big wipeye fades more often than he was in the past.
Speaker 4: He used to never miss right off of the tee.
Speaker 4: We're kind of seeing a two way miss again. Still
Speaker 4: playing great, great golf, but I mean last year he
Speaker 4: was in the top ten in all four majors and
Speaker 4: he won two of them. This year could be a
Speaker 4: year spent in his primer. He does not win a
Speaker 4: major championship, and I think that's gotta be the biggest
Speaker 4: story coming into this Open. That's player related.
Speaker 3: I agree, Joseph. I think, look, you don't want to
Speaker 3: do a victory lap, but I think you deserve a
Speaker 3: little bit of, you know, kudos here for early calling
Speaker 3: this that he would just be a little bit off
Speaker 3: this year that we might have. You know, it's really
Speaker 3: hard to maintain the peak that you had, I would
Speaker 3: be more concerned. I guess the miscut thing. It just
Speaker 3: feels a little bit like an anomaly. And he shot
Speaker 3: sixty eight to seventy two. Obviously guys are sort of
Speaker 3: going a little bit low at Renaissance. But I don't
Speaker 3: think if he had shut seventy six in this last round,
Speaker 3: I think I would feel a little bit more like,
Speaker 3: holy crap, like what's going on with him? But it
Speaker 3: doesn't feel sharp, And maybe that's the birth of a
Speaker 3: second kid. Maybe it's your body is physically changed, just
Speaker 3: to hair. You know, there's some soreness, there's some you know, lingering,
Speaker 3: you know, just kind of reps grind you down a
Speaker 3: little bit after winning so much last year. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't feel like he's ever I talked
Speaker 3: to a couple of players this year and it's like
Speaker 3: at the beginning of the year, it's like, man, when
Speaker 3: he is on the leader board, you're kind of scared,
Speaker 3: like you are like, oh crap, like he is coming.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't feel that way right now, like he
Speaker 3: if I think if like it at Shinnacock, if he
Speaker 3: had played great in that last round, that all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, that magic that he had would have been
Speaker 3: sort of reaffirmed in everyone's eyes in terms of narrative, like, man,
Speaker 3: Scotty is coming, you cannot like withstand the inevitability of him.
Speaker 3: And right now it just isn't that. I don't I
Speaker 3: don't think that fear is right there and other people's
Speaker 3: hearts when they're coming just watching like Windham really like
Speaker 3: just flat out play better than him all in that
Speaker 3: final round. You know, these greens are a lot flatter,
Speaker 3: So I feel a little bit like, man, if he's
Speaker 3: had problems like reading Putts all year, you know, he's
Speaker 3: had Ted Scott reading Putts for some of them, he's
Speaker 3: sort of tried to go back and read some, so
Speaker 3: maybe like if the reads are just a little bit
Speaker 3: less complicated, he rolls in two or three that he
Speaker 3: wouldn't have otherwise, and all of a sudden, like that
Speaker 3: momentum starts to build a little bitfferent this week. But man,
Speaker 3: it's surprising that it just felt so much like we
Speaker 3: were on the verge of this Dude's gonna rip off
Speaker 3: a ton of victories and it just hasn't quite happened.
Speaker 2: It's a reminder that golf's always always counterintuitive to what
Speaker 2: you think. Whenever. It's almost as if whenever there becomes
Speaker 2: a popular group think. I mean like I at the
Speaker 2: beginning of the year, I was like, I don't see
Speaker 2: how he's not gonna win or eight times again, like
Speaker 2: I just don't see how this is possible, and sure
Speaker 2: enough it's it. It never sees this amaze me. How
Speaker 2: like whenever you think that something is like this is
Speaker 2: a fact, a matter of fact in golf, that it
Speaker 2: ends up being the complete opposite. Listen, like all this set,
Speaker 2: all of the set, he is still without a doubt
Speaker 2: the best player in the world, which is wild like there,
Speaker 2: and I think, like it's it's funny to me, is
Speaker 2: like you know, there's so many you know, way if
Speaker 2: you watch you know, so many people will will not
Speaker 2: go and say that he's not the same player he
Speaker 2: was last year. But it's like undeniable. You know, Brandall's
Speaker 2: done a great job on Golf Channel like undeniable, he
Speaker 2: is not playing at the same level that he was
Speaker 2: playing at. I think, Joseph, you've done an excellent job
Speaker 2: talking about Listen, like all these events that he's like
Speaker 2: in the mix for he would have won by five
Speaker 2: or six last year with how he was playing, and
Speaker 2: it's and and some people are like, oh, the players
Speaker 2: around him have leveled up their game, Like I don't
Speaker 2: think they have. I just think that he's not playing
Speaker 2: as well. And you know, there are a lot of
Speaker 2: Tiger comparisons with what he did the last three years.
Speaker 2: And you know, Tiger went a couple of years in
Speaker 2: the middle of his prime without winning majors. And the
Speaker 2: thing about like if like this is this is arguably
Speaker 2: the perfect open open setup for him, especially if the
Speaker 2: wind doesn't blow, it's firm, it's a fair golf course.
Speaker 2: Like this is as good as is gonna get for Scottie.
Speaker 2: I expect him to be in the mix, and sometimes
Speaker 2: a miscut before gives him a little time to just
Speaker 2: work on some stuff. Is better than just like you know,
Speaker 2: wailing away on Saturday and Sunday without your best stuff
Speaker 2: like there are that you know, the miscuts not a
Speaker 2: It's not going to change the way I'm thinking about
Speaker 2: Scotty this week. I think he should be the favorite.
Speaker 2: But the the thing about this is if he doesn't
Speaker 2: get it done, he has nine months to think about
Speaker 2: how he didn't get a major this year, and I
Speaker 2: think that's the heart, that's the crazy. The weight of
Speaker 2: this week is about oh my god, like I didn't
Speaker 2: get one and now I have nine months. And maybe
Speaker 2: it's a good thing for Scotty because he talks about
Speaker 2: how like accomplishment kind of became just like, oh, another one,
Speaker 2: and maybe this is the best thing that could happen
Speaker 2: for Scotty in the long run.
Speaker 4: Oh look, if you're trying to make the argument Scotty
Speaker 4: is not any is not a step down, like you're
Speaker 4: just not paying attention. And to your point, Andy, if
Speaker 4: he doesn't win one, which he very well could, he
Speaker 4: should be the favorite. It's possible he goes the whole
Speaker 4: year where his only win is the American Express and
Speaker 4: that was at the very beginning of the year.
Speaker 2: And first start of the year, the first start of.
Speaker 4: The year, and that's not the strongest field to win.
Speaker 4: And just for a little more reference, like last year
Speaker 4: he was the co leader and two of the majors
Speaker 4: after fifty four holes and one to them. This year,
Speaker 4: the closest he's been after three rounds by major is
Speaker 4: within four. He's just a little step off. And people
Speaker 4: have been saying, like well, well, it's just the first
Speaker 4: rounds that are kind of getting to him, because we've
Speaker 4: seen that throughout the year, whether it's at the Waste
Speaker 4: Management or the Genesis. And then you have other people
Speaker 4: who are like, ah, he's been kind of getting in
Speaker 4: the mix, but like you know, he's not able to
Speaker 4: get it across the finish line. There's this this little
Speaker 4: and I think sometimes we use that kind of terminology
Speaker 4: to describe something that's much simpler, which is not some
Speaker 4: knowistical first round struggles or final round struggles. It's that
Speaker 4: your game isn't quite as good as it was a
Speaker 4: year ago. You're not quite as sharp. People have always
Speaker 4: said the same thing with Speef, that like he's playing
Speaker 4: good individual rounds, but he can't put them all together. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's golf skill is being able to put them all together.
Speaker 4: And like you said, and these are tournaments we saw Scotty,
Speaker 4: especially late Saturday afternoons, there's like a signature late Saturday afternoons,
Speaker 4: Scotty rattling, you know, four birdies off over seven holes
Speaker 4: and immediately it's like, oh, he was down to, now
Speaker 4: he's up to going into the final round and he
Speaker 4: wins by three. We're just not quite seeing that brand
Speaker 4: of Scotti Scheffler. And we might see it at Brickdale,
Speaker 4: we might see it next year. I have no idea,
Speaker 4: but I do think there it's Anybody who wants to
Speaker 4: to analyze golf seriously has to acknowledge that this is
Speaker 4: not the same Scotti Scheffler's last year.
Speaker 2: The perfect encapsulation of what you just said, Joseph is
Speaker 2: the way he closed Saturday at Shinnacock. It felt like,
Speaker 2: Oh here he comes. He birdied sixteen, I believe, and
Speaker 2: it felt oh wow, this he's this, he's gonna do.
Speaker 2: He's gonna do this surge. He's gonna get close to
Speaker 2: Windham and he's gonna he's gonna be right there. On Sunday.
Speaker 2: He misses seventeen green, which is like bread and butter
Speaker 2: mid iron, short iron, Scotty Scheffler, best iron, and the
Speaker 2: player in the world makes a bogie. Then he hits
Speaker 2: a great drive, great wedge on eighteen to three or
Speaker 2: four feet and misses the putt. And that's like the
Speaker 2: encapsulation of this year versus the like last year. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: It is seventeen. He hits the green and he's walking
Speaker 2: away with worse of three, and then he makes a
Speaker 2: birdie on eighteen and he's two shots closer to Windham,
Speaker 2: and then Wyndham struggles out of the gate and Scotty's
Speaker 2: right there, right, that's the difference. And then he doesn't
Speaker 2: play the way he played on Sunday.
Speaker 3: Frankly, yeah, he's I mean, statistically he's half a stroke
Speaker 3: worse this year than he was the previous two years
Speaker 3: that approach, So like that's just like bear it out
Speaker 3: right there, naked stats, Like you're you he's still the
Speaker 3: best iron player in the game tournament, but you know
Speaker 3: exactly two shots tournament that he could have that that's
Speaker 3: the difference between three wins and one win.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it'll be it'll be fast. I mean,
Speaker 2: I like, like I wouldn't take anybody before him if
Speaker 2: I was picking like players to win in terms of
Speaker 2: like if you said this is a draft, you have
Speaker 2: to place the order and and who you think is
Speaker 2: gonna win, I'd still put Scotty Scheffler first. But it's
Speaker 2: not the way we felt about Scotty Shuffler last year
Speaker 2: at Port Rush, and there was a lot of doubt
Speaker 2: about like could he win on links course, all right,
Speaker 2: what's up next? Kevin?
Speaker 3: All Right, I think we stalked him Young?
Speaker 2: Oh man, No, no, no, no, no, no, we got.
Speaker 3: To sorry, we got to hasn't had a top twenty
Speaker 3: five in the last four starts since the truest right now.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying this is a permanent thing, but the
Speaker 3: putter is a problem again. Hasn't been in positive strokes
Speaker 3: gained in that stretch. He's losing half a stroke on
Speaker 3: the greens, between half a stroke and a full stroke.
Speaker 3: Since May. We kind of felt like he had solved putting,
Speaker 3: but has he Like this is the worst I looked
Speaker 3: it up. This is the worst stretch of putting he's
Speaker 3: had since twenty twenty four. Not a huge number, not
Speaker 3: huge emphasized, but he hasn't had four consecutive tournaments where
Speaker 3: he's been negative strokes game putting in that stretch since
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. What's going on with Cam Young? We
Speaker 3: thought that he was ascending, We thought that he was there,
Speaker 3: you know, he's so he's literally leading the Masters by
Speaker 3: two strokes at one point, one of the players obviously
Speaker 3: before that. Right now, it just feels a little bit
Speaker 3: like he's he's not the same in the same conversation
Speaker 3: as the top players in the world. How do we
Speaker 3: get the Cam Young back that we had earlier this year?
Speaker 4: Gosh, we're doing like, you know, tournament breakdown of Cam
Speaker 4: Young's putting, and I feel like, come on, no, it's fair.
Speaker 4: That's we've made it that this is you know, one
Speaker 4: of the main storylines coming in that will take it good.
Speaker 4: I think a question with Cam is how healthy he is,
Speaker 4: because I don't know anything, but he canceled his press
Speaker 4: conference at the US Open, and he also had you know,
Speaker 4: tape on his wrist, which he has had tape on
Speaker 4: his wrist often. But I think that's something with Cam
Speaker 4: that I'm always like kind of trying to monitor. Is
Speaker 4: he fully help.
Speaker 3: Treating And it's like he's a football team, like hiding injuries,
Speaker 3: Like what benefit does he you know, mentally for like
Speaker 3: not disclosing what's going on.
Speaker 4: Well, he doesn't cancel press conferences often, so I do
Speaker 4: think that there It wouldn't shock me if there's some
Speaker 4: kind of discomfort, whether it's his wrist or something else.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that explains putting, that would be
Speaker 4: more likely to explain another part of his game. But
Speaker 4: I actually really I like this golf course for Cam
Speaker 4: and I think, you know, he played really really well
Speaker 4: at Liverpool, played really really well at Saint Andrews. There
Speaker 4: shouldn't be a lot of excuses unless there is some
Speaker 4: kind of injury, which you know that's not publicly known,
Speaker 4: so I don't think he can get to use that
Speaker 4: as an excuse either. Yeah, I think he needs to
Speaker 4: step up and play really well. Is he a top
Speaker 4: five player in the world is a legitimate question right
Speaker 4: now versus a couple months ago, where I think anyone
Speaker 4: who didn't think he was a top five player in
Speaker 4: the world was kind of nuts. There's probably pretty good
Speaker 4: argument that he was the third or fourth best player
Speaker 4: in the world. Him, Fitzpatrick Rahm have always, you know,
Speaker 4: have kind of been in that three to five zone.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think it's a really important week for
Speaker 4: Cam to potentially punctuate his breakout season. We don't know
Speaker 4: how long these kinds of runs go. He was in
Speaker 4: the mix the Masters, didn't get it done, and then
Speaker 4: didn't play great in the other two majors. It's not
Speaker 4: a wasted year if he doesn't play well next week,
Speaker 4: but it does feel like a pretty important year to
Speaker 4: kind of encapsulate a rise for one of the idea,
Speaker 4: I mean maybe great players. But if he goes out
Speaker 4: missus the cut, then it's a little bit like yeah,
Speaker 4: twenty twenty six was promising, but it never fully materialized.
Speaker 2: You know, My question is did we just see a
Speaker 2: nuclear hot putting run? And like is the old expression
Speaker 2: of a tiger can't change his stripes? You know the
Speaker 2: situation here and here's here's the aspect. Cameron Young is
Speaker 2: so talented tea degreen. He can win major championships without
Speaker 2: putting great. He is one of I would say probably
Speaker 2: five players who can who can do that. He can
Speaker 2: ball strike the crap out of a place. And if
Speaker 2: he just puts average, it is you know, I I
Speaker 2: think like the like Scotty has turned around his putting
Speaker 2: to where now it you know, for two plus years
Speaker 2: he's been a A plus like a very very good putter,
Speaker 2: and it's it's you know, I think he still has
Speaker 2: hiccups here and there, some days the stroke doesn't look perfect,
Speaker 2: but like he's done it for a long time. Cameron
Speaker 2: Young hasn't strung together like a year of sensational putting.
Speaker 2: And it was a mirror kind of like six months
Speaker 2: and I just wonder, like, you know, is how do
Speaker 2: you It's hard to like consequentially change go from below
Speaker 2: average to great. And for a while he was like
Speaker 2: a great putter. I mean, that was the thing the change.
Speaker 2: And my question is is this just a blip on
Speaker 2: the radar he's not seeing the line well and he's
Speaker 2: just having in a little bit of a putting funk
Speaker 2: that totally happens to everybody, or is it something that
Speaker 2: is just like he's just regressed back to the meat.
Speaker 2: Did the regression monster, as PJ likes to say about
Speaker 2: Pete crow Armstrong, did the regression monster come for for
Speaker 2: PJ and Joseph's beautiful boy PJ could jump in? Did
Speaker 2: the regression monster come PJ?
Speaker 5: This is uh I'm expecting to pop in here. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean the regression monsters always is always lurking. I
Speaker 5: do think like you said, I mean, it could have
Speaker 5: just been an absolute putting heater. But I do think
Speaker 5: that the floor is higher that it did. The floor
Speaker 5: should be raised from where it was eighteen months ago,
Speaker 5: two years ago, where the putting was a capital all
Speaker 5: caps capital be problem. The floor should be raised. It
Speaker 5: should not go all the way back down to that point.
Speaker 5: I think maybe this is just just hoping out there
Speaker 5: as well.
Speaker 4: Also, I think we're I think we're being a little overreactive.
Speaker 4: Cam was also a pretty good putt of for like
Speaker 4: a year and a half, it was more than six months,
Speaker 4: and I think this is just a couple weeks stretch
Speaker 4: really going back to Sunday at Quail. Sunday at Quail
Speaker 4: was a nightmare for those who watched that at the
Speaker 4: Trust this year when he was in the mix to win,
Speaker 4: it looked like the old Cam young putting. I think
Speaker 4: we're going to see him over the next six months,
Speaker 4: whether just next week or not, over the next year,
Speaker 4: return to being a solid putter, maybe not one of
Speaker 4: the best putters in the world, but a solid putter.
Speaker 4: And I do you think he's a really really good
Speaker 4: chance to win that.
Speaker 2: I think PJ has a completely alternate theory.
Speaker 4: Pj's worried.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think there's there's a chance that
Speaker 5: Justin Thomas just kind of zapped zapped his powers when
Speaker 5: they switched putters. But that got co opted by PGA
Speaker 5: Tour Live without Credit, by the way, So I'll just
Speaker 5: throw that out podcast.
Speaker 3: I would just like to put the theory that he
Speaker 3: bottomed out at the second round of the Travelers when
Speaker 3: he shot seventy one when guys were flirting with fifty nine,
Speaker 3: and that we've slowly kind of dead cat bounced like
Speaker 3: up here. Okay, So I'm thinking, and he played pretty
Speaker 3: well Travelers in the last two rounds, so you know,
Speaker 3: maybe we're we're trending in a better direction.
Speaker 2: I'll I'll tie cam Young to a topic that is
Speaker 2: a growing list that Camyong's squarely on and near the
Speaker 2: top of is the best player without Major. I know
Speaker 2: Joseph wants to talk about Tommy Fleetwood, who would be
Speaker 2: squarely on this list. So I will just kind of
Speaker 2: rattle off players on this list we have. You know,
Speaker 2: obviously this list is like this has been just kind
Speaker 2: of like an ongoing thing about majors for years. And
Speaker 2: you know, back in the day, Colin Montgomery was a
Speaker 2: poster boy for this. Phil Mickelson, until he won, was
Speaker 2: a poster boy for best player without a major. You know,
Speaker 2: Lee Westwood never got the major. Him and Monty never
Speaker 2: got the major, were constantly on these lists. Ricky Fowler
Speaker 2: was one that got brought up a lot. You know,
Speaker 2: I don't know if any of these players on this
Speaker 2: list right now are at the level of I mean,
Speaker 2: I think some of them are at the level of Ricky.
Speaker 2: I don't think any of them are at the level
Speaker 2: of the Monty Phil and Westy conversation. I actually, I
Speaker 2: don't think we have like a truly truly great player
Speaker 2: without a major, But we have some like players that
Speaker 2: are sending and I'm you know, you have Chris godder Up,
Speaker 2: who obviously has won just a ton. He's won four
Speaker 2: times basically in the calendar calendar year starting with last
Speaker 2: year Scottish played T four, played great at Port Rush
Speaker 2: T four at Port Rush, obviously one last week at
Speaker 2: the year. You have Victor Hovelin, who I would make
Speaker 2: the argument is the most accomplished player on the list.
Speaker 2: Has been in the mix and a lot of major championships,
Speaker 2: been really close on Sundays, like down to the you know,
Speaker 2: playing the last four holes with real shot multiple times,
Speaker 2: whether it's Okill, Valhalla, He's he has had real He's
Speaker 2: had major championships on the blade of his putter, you know,
Speaker 2: does he make a couple of putts coming down the stretch,
Speaker 2: he wins, get a good bounce, he wins major championships,
Speaker 2: and he has a FedEx Cup title, a bunch of
Speaker 2: PGA Tour wins. I think this is like, without a doubt,
Speaker 2: the best player without a major in the game, and
Speaker 2: I'd be open to hearing any of their suggestions. Sam Burns,
Speaker 2: who knows if he's gonna play. It seems like the
Speaker 2: birth of his kid is gonna but he's becoming like
Speaker 2: this major force. Like you know, the results I don't
Speaker 2: think even really show it. He's had a couple like
Speaker 2: late Sunday tea times that he's bombed out of. He
Speaker 2: has been in the mix at a ton of majors
Speaker 2: last two three years, and then Ludwig is the one
Speaker 2: that everybody wants to put put on on here. But
Speaker 2: and I think, you know he's he's been in the
Speaker 2: mix at a few majors, but it's still really young
Speaker 2: in his major career.
Speaker 3: Can I throw one name out here, Andy that I
Speaker 3: just think obviously you know people were betting him in
Speaker 3: the Scottish and didn't play jagae all at the start,
Speaker 3: but Teral Hatten to me, like, I feel like l
Speaker 3: Hatten is I really think it's gonna win a major
Speaker 3: at some point, played really well. The Masters, played really
Speaker 3: well with you so open you know. It just to
Speaker 3: me feels like he's often forgotten in some of this.
Speaker 3: I personally think Tommy Fleetwood's time has come and gone.
Speaker 3: I think that that is this is someone who is
Speaker 3: going to forever be known as the guy who did
Speaker 3: not win a major. I think Levevig has still has
Speaker 3: plenty of time in his future, but I kind of
Speaker 3: feel like I would not be surprised at all if
Speaker 3: Hatton stepped up and won this major.
Speaker 4: You are setting yourself up to get clipped with saying
Speaker 4: that I am Tommy fleet his time has come and gone.
Speaker 4: This was my last thing, so i'll I'll plant this
Speaker 4: flag or it's not even a flag play because I
Speaker 4: don't necessarily think Tommy Fleetwood's gonna win. But Andy, I
Speaker 4: agree with you. Victor Hobin is the best player who
Speaker 4: has not won a major. He showed he was playing
Speaker 4: to the level of world number one in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4: I don't think with any of these other guys we've
Speaker 4: talked about, they've ever played a stained stretch where they're
Speaker 4: clearly the best player in the world or have a right,
Speaker 4: you know, to be considered in that class. Tommy Fleetwood's
Speaker 4: been really good. I don't think at any point in
Speaker 4: his career would you say that Tommy's the world number one.
Speaker 4: But next week is a huge opportunity for Tommy, and
Speaker 4: I think given the local ties, we should spend at
Speaker 4: least a minute talking about him. You know, Tommy's very
Speaker 4: familiar with Royal Birkdale play at formby growing up. In
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen at the Open Championship at Birkdale, Tommy finished
Speaker 4: t twenty seven, which doesn't necessarily look great, but he's
Speaker 4: a better player than then, and he also finished he
Speaker 4: started with the seventy six. Maybe he was a little nervous.
Speaker 4: I don't know what all went on in the first
Speaker 4: round or with the weather.
Speaker 2: Looks like the park play home games in golf, it
Speaker 2: can be you actually these guys never play them.
Speaker 4: It can be hard. I think that's an interesting debate. Yeah,
Speaker 4: is it an advantage or you know, do you psych
Speaker 4: yourself out? But but Tommy is is going to be
Speaker 4: a really interesting story coming into next week, especially because
Speaker 4: I think at the end of last year there was
Speaker 4: a very strong case he was one of the best
Speaker 4: players in the world. This year has been a bit
Speaker 4: of a disappointment. But that golf course, he's familiar with it.
Speaker 4: But be if I were to draw a golf course
Speaker 4: for Tommy Fleetwood, I think it looks a lot like
Speaker 4: Royal Brickdale. He hits the ball straight, He's a great
Speaker 4: ball striker. The greens are like dead flat there. And
Speaker 4: you know, Tommy at times has not always been the
Speaker 4: best putter, but he's been putting pretty well over the
Speaker 4: last couple of years. I think he can make a
Speaker 4: lot of putts out there. His short game is good,
Speaker 4: Like you know, his lack of distance, that's his main flaw.
Speaker 4: It's not gonna be as much of an issue at Brickdale.
Speaker 4: So do I think he's gonna win. No, I don't
Speaker 4: think Tommy Fleett was gonna win next week. But he
Speaker 4: could absolutely be in the mix. He could win. And
Speaker 4: to your point, Kevin, this is probably Tommy Fleetwood at
Speaker 4: age thirty five. This is gonna be one of his
Speaker 4: best opportunities to win a major, if he's ever gonna
Speaker 4: get one done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I don't feel it. I don't see it.
Speaker 3: I mean, set me up to get clipped that's fine.
Speaker 3: I just feel like I think, you know, the home
Speaker 3: game thing, absolutely, it's absolutely gonna be iking you out.
Speaker 3: Maybe there isn't as much quite as much buzz about
Speaker 3: it as there was, you know previously, like oh, this
Speaker 3: has set so so perfect for Tommy is Southport boy, Like,
Speaker 3: I just I think it's the kind of thing that
Speaker 3: gets in golfer's heads. He saw it the first time
Speaker 3: at Port Rush with Rory, like just felt overwhelming that
Speaker 3: the emotions of it all, and I just I don't know, man,
Speaker 3: it just something is not It's really hard to close
Speaker 3: in a major, and closing has been one of his
Speaker 3: biggest issues. You know, I just can you would you
Speaker 3: trust Tommy Fleetwood down the stretch to hold off Scotty,
Speaker 3: to hold off Rory? Like, I just don't quite see it.
Speaker 2: I think major championship home games extremely hard. I think
Speaker 2: regular PGA Tour event every single year home game not
Speaker 2: a huge advantage because you get used to it, you know,
Speaker 2: it becomes part of your routine. The number of people
Speaker 2: that will want to see Tommy Fleetwood his whole this
Speaker 2: is going to be a completely different setup than his
Speaker 2: regular event, and he's probably way more equipped to handle
Speaker 2: it than the last time it was here. He's also,
Speaker 2: as you alluded to, Joseph, way better at golf than
Speaker 2: the last time it was here. I think that the
Speaker 2: thing about Tommy is like he's never won a lot,
Speaker 2: and I just think that that is I am like, mister,
Speaker 2: I value consistency probably more than you know, the vast
Speaker 2: majority of people in golf. I think consistency is just
Speaker 2: like the number one thing. But there is something telling
Speaker 2: when someone just doesn't get it across the line very often.
Speaker 2: Like even when you think about like Tommy fleet would
Speaker 2: comparatively to your like Sergio Garcia's, your Adam Scott's who
Speaker 2: were ridical could they were criticized about not getting across
Speaker 2: the line. I mean, those guys won way more than
Speaker 2: Tommy Fleetwood, way more like they might have triple the
Speaker 2: wins in their career than Adam Scott or than Tommy Fleetwood.
Speaker 2: Like you know, Tommy's probably got close to ten professional wins, right, Joseph.
Speaker 4: I'd have to look that sounds. I mean, it's got
Speaker 4: to be in that ballpark, but not a lot of
Speaker 4: them are like you know, strong field, big time tournaments.
Speaker 2: Adam Scott's got thirty three. You know, and this is
Speaker 2: like as who I grew up with is the guy
Speaker 2: that was criticized for not being able to get it
Speaker 2: across the line. So I just think, you know, and
Speaker 2: this is you know, you know, you think about like
Speaker 2: this goes to the point of like the best player
Speaker 2: without a major, like Sergio and Adam Scott were in
Speaker 2: that bucket for a period of time, and they were
Speaker 2: you know, they just were people that won a lot
Speaker 2: of events. So I could see. I agree with all
Speaker 2: of your points. I think this is a great place
Speaker 2: for Tommy Fleetwood.
Speaker 4: I just.
Speaker 2: I just struggle with him being like even you know,
Speaker 2: being the best player without a major with his resume,
Speaker 2: you know, and and I think I don't think you're
Speaker 2: arguing that. It's just like I see that out there
Speaker 2: as like this is the best player without a Major's like, no,
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Another kind of big story along
Speaker 2: the lines of Fleetwood will be Justin Rose this week.
Speaker 2: Made his Major championship debut in nineteen ninety eight at Brokedale,
Speaker 2: finished T four. You're gonna have That's gonna be highlights
Speaker 2: of that are going to be bashed over your head
Speaker 2: this week. If you're watching the golf, which is like
Speaker 2: it kind of amazing. Justin Rose. He's turning forty six
Speaker 2: at the end of this month. His birthday is July thirtieth,
Speaker 2: so he's basically approaching his forty seventh year on Earth.
Speaker 2: I can't, I cannot believe that he is still this
Speaker 2: major force. I do. I think that that the Masters
Speaker 2: did some permanent damage this year. I think more so
Speaker 2: than the year before the year before, he was so
Speaker 2: out of it and surged up and Rory stumbled and
Speaker 2: that's how he got in the mix and got in
Speaker 2: the playoff. This year, I think he felt the I'm
Speaker 2: gonna win this thing. I am, the ball is in
Speaker 2: my court, I can win this thing, and you let
Speaker 2: go of the rope. I don't know, you know, this
Speaker 2: is the question, like, are there more chances for Justin Rose?
Speaker 2: Seemingly this would be a really good golf course for
Speaker 2: Justin Rose in terms of not overly long, a firm
Speaker 2: golf course that like really puts a premium on precision,
Speaker 2: and just that that kind of major mentality that he
Speaker 2: as of knowing when to stay in the how to
Speaker 2: stay in the fight, and then that I as Cameron Young,
Speaker 2: said Justin Rose doing Justin Rose things, which I interpret
Speaker 2: as making putts from all over the place at the
Speaker 2: right exact right time. I think Justin Rose is, you know,
Speaker 2: like if an old guy, if an old guy is
Speaker 2: going to pick it off, pick off a major, it's
Speaker 2: most likely to happen at the Open Championship. It is
Speaker 2: by far the average age of like the last fifteen years,
Speaker 2: the oldest set of winners. So this is the spot.
Speaker 2: But I worry that that masters actually did like some
Speaker 2: irreparable harm on Justin Rose.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I looked this up as I was respondful for
Speaker 3: writing the Justin Rose capsule as part of our preview.
Speaker 3: Only four guys who are five guys who are forty
Speaker 3: five and older Julian Borrows, Jerry Barber, Jack, Nicholas Hale,
Speaker 3: Irwin and Phil Micholson. A major. At this age, it
Speaker 3: just gets harder and harder. The eras have obviously changed,
Speaker 3: like golfers are more relevant into their late forties. But
Speaker 3: you know, you throw out Mickelson, who was like a
Speaker 3: one week heater. That wasn't you know, duplicated before or after.
Speaker 3: Now we're going back to Nicholas and Irwin, like we're
Speaker 3: talking about forty years ago since a forty five year
Speaker 3: old won a major. It's just tough. It's I just
Speaker 3: you know, I would love it for him and for
Speaker 3: the game. If it's sort of coming down the stretch,
Speaker 3: You've got a guy from England in England, you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's It would be a fun sort of flip
Speaker 3: to all these tournaments in the US where these various
Speaker 3: knuckleheads are cheering against Matt Fitzpatrick, you know, and Channing
Speaker 3: USA stuff. So you have the crowd sort of just
Speaker 3: you know, surging with energy behind Justin Rose. I just
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't know. If I see it.
Speaker 4: I think Tommy Fleet would be the coolest winner. I
Speaker 4: think Justin Rose would maybe be maybe the second coolest.
Speaker 4: I remember watching some RNA video last summer going into
Speaker 4: Port Rush and they asked him about Birkdale and Justin
Speaker 4: Rose lit up, like loves this golf course. I don't
Speaker 4: know where it ranks for him in his all time
Speaker 4: favorite courses, but based on the way he was talking
Speaker 4: about it, I think it's pretty high and maybe his
Speaker 4: favorite course on the Open rod to he's old, he's
Speaker 4: old like, and it's it's hard to say that when
Speaker 4: he's been in the mix at some of these majors.
Speaker 4: But I just think at that age, to summon magic
Speaker 4: is asking a lot of players that the peaks are
Speaker 4: gonna happen. But I think the consistency, like sometimes Doc
Speaker 4: Rivers basketball coach and a former player talked about it
Speaker 4: on Bill Simmons podcast, like a year ago, some of
Speaker 4: you have old man games and you know there's not
Speaker 4: a whole lot you can do about it to prevent them.
Speaker 4: Like Justin Rose might show up some days and despite
Speaker 4: all the work he's putting into his body, like sometimes
Speaker 4: your body just doesn't quite cooperate, And I think that's
Speaker 4: a very difficult variable. As admirably as he's kept his
Speaker 4: body in shape and you know, poured all those resources
Speaker 4: into his recovery, I think expecting him to win is
Speaker 4: a lot. Expecting him to contend is a lot. But
Speaker 4: it would be an incredible, incredible story. So yeah, I
Speaker 4: don't think it's gonna happen. You can clip that one,
Speaker 4: just like your Tommy Fleetwood one, Kevin, but that would
Speaker 4: be outside of Fleetwood winning. I think Rose winning is
Speaker 4: the coolest story.
Speaker 3: He's He's already done. The Thirsty Boy routine of wearing
Speaker 3: the burgundy sweater and truon when he was in the
Speaker 3: mix that he when he first wore. You'll see the
Speaker 3: clip a thousand times of seventeen year old him. Can
Speaker 3: he play that note again? Like, if he's in contention,
Speaker 3: can he wear that same sweater of the seventeen year
Speaker 3: old Justin Rose again?
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I think he should too. It's kind
Speaker 2: of awesome. I want to just note I made a
Speaker 2: late minute swap here. I decided I don't want to
Speaker 2: talk about Jordan Speith. I put Rose in as one
Speaker 2: of my things and took Jordan Speeth out. I don't think.
Speaker 2: I don't think I want to talk about the twenty
Speaker 2: seventeen champion, and kind of I don't know if I
Speaker 2: want to be a downer on where he was to
Speaker 2: that and where he is now.
Speaker 3: Listen, like back, we have a whole look back on
Speaker 3: the twenty seventeen Open with Brennan and Joseph. The people
Speaker 3: should check out and they can have all the speaf
Speaker 3: talk they like.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's worth getting super into. He's not
Speaker 4: a threat to win this tournament. I think it's really
Speaker 4: worth going back and watching the twenty seventeen Open to
Speaker 4: see what speF was at the time. I don't think
Speaker 4: he's much of a threat this week, and I'm happy
Speaker 4: to eat my words if I'm wrong. And the other
Speaker 4: player that I don't know, we're gonna spend any time on.
Speaker 4: But I think bears mentioning is Bryson de Shamba, who
Speaker 4: would this could be the first year of his career
Speaker 4: in which he misses all four cuts at the major championships,
Speaker 4: which I think does bear mentioning.
Speaker 2: He feels filming YouTube video right now?
Speaker 4: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Would? Last week in.
Speaker 3: Kerranville, California, I got so much grief on Twitter for saying,
Speaker 3: like is he still interested in like being a great
Speaker 3: professional golfer? Like is he is he still serious about
Speaker 3: this stuff? Going to freaking Canada like five days before
Speaker 3: the Open when there's no live event seems like a
Speaker 3: perfect answer to that, Like he's not interested? Is he
Speaker 3: was in winning majors? Is he is in filming content?
Speaker 4: And mind you that the major he has struggled the
Speaker 4: most at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this speaks though, to the monotony of pro golf.
Speaker 2: This is it, you know, it is not for everyone.
Speaker 2: It is you know, I people are going to think
Speaker 2: it's crazy. It's hard to stay motivated for some of
Speaker 2: these guys, and I think Bryson's one that threw out
Speaker 2: his career, has gone in and out of of motivation
Speaker 2: levels to play and win tournament, and I think we
Speaker 2: might I reached even a lower point than he was
Speaker 2: trying to be the long drive guy and left the
Speaker 2: US Ryer Cup team celebration to go to the lot
Speaker 2: to Actorville, Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: What if Bryson is Jim Brown just you know, he
Speaker 3: reached the peak of his sport and then he decided
Speaker 3: he wanted to be an actor again. That's the equivalent
Speaker 3: of us. I'm deciding I want to make content walked
Speaker 3: away from it. What if he's not even playing professional
Speaker 3: golf in two years.
Speaker 4: If we get a final pairing that's some combination of Speef, Bryson,
Speaker 4: and Fleetwood, this group is going to be sweating. There's
Speaker 4: a lot of potential clips that could come out of
Speaker 4: this podcast and rose what if.
Speaker 2: It used to be scared and from the bullshit four players?
Speaker 2: What's what's the last anybody have any bullets left?
Speaker 3: Nothing good? I just think that the wind is not
Speaker 3: looking like it's going to be significant, which is always
Speaker 3: a bummer because Open Championships are always better when the
Speaker 3: wind blows hard. And so, you know, hopefully, as he
Speaker 3: alluded to in the beginning, and he will get some
Speaker 3: really firm conditions, but it's going to be a bummer if,
Speaker 3: like the wind is is pretty benign.
Speaker 2: While we're here, we have to talk about John Rahm.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, what are I I I wrote this
Speaker 2: for the Friday newsletter. I'm kind of like, if he
Speaker 2: if he if he doesn't have a strong week, I'm
Speaker 2: kind of ready to take him out of the top
Speaker 2: tier of of Rory like where he's been. And I
Speaker 2: don't I don't think he necessarily has deserved to be
Speaker 2: up there for a while. But the top tier of
Speaker 2: like it's you know, Rory, Scotty and rom uh head
Speaker 2: and shoulders above the next group of players. I'm I'm
Speaker 2: almost ready to bump them down into the the Colin Morikawa,
Speaker 2: Matt Fitzpatrick, Zone, Quindam Clark, Cameyon, that's right, got her up, Rose, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just it's gonna be three years since he's won
Speaker 3: a major if he doesn't win the Open Championship this
Speaker 3: next week.
Speaker 2: Ian majors too, this is the Masters, so it is
Speaker 2: the first you know, he's a lot. This is his
Speaker 2: fifteenth major since his last major win, and I think
Speaker 2: this year's been a step in the right direction though
Speaker 2: for him in majors, because the last couple of years
Speaker 2: were just not good.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, maybe you could just say that that
Speaker 3: US Open crash out was just a bad nine holes.
Speaker 3: What's weird is it was like the most benign of
Speaker 3: the conditions, the softest, The greens were all weak, and
Speaker 3: the Windham went on that run there that sort of
Speaker 3: put him space in between everyone. At the same time,
Speaker 3: like two groups away, John Rahm is collapsing. It's just
Speaker 3: frustrating to see someone who's so talented and so good
Speaker 3: just completely be in neutral. And I think, like you know,
Speaker 3: when he plays poorly on live, he's still gonna finish
Speaker 3: in the top ten every time, which I think creates
Speaker 3: a little bit of like a false sense of where
Speaker 3: you are. And I do truly wonder I'm stealing this
Speaker 3: take from somebody I can't remember. Maybe I think it
Speaker 3: was Ben Cally, But there's a sense of, like in
Speaker 3: these big tournaments where it's not just live, that he
Speaker 3: is feeling watched and judged in a way that he
Speaker 3: might not otherwise, Like like he understands, he's self aware
Speaker 3: enough to know that these are sort of referendum on
Speaker 3: his choices. And I think that that mental things has
Speaker 3: become a little bit of an anvil around his neck
Speaker 3: in terms of, you know, he's trying to almost justify
Speaker 3: what he did even though everything around him collapsed and
Speaker 3: the tours didn't unite and it didn't work out, And
Speaker 3: I think that that has to be a little bit
Speaker 3: of a factor in some of this.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be pretty non committal on Rom because I
Speaker 4: think I've been a little more pro Ram over the
Speaker 4: past couple of years and a little more forgiving of
Speaker 4: some of his bad performances, like this year he was
Speaker 4: very close joining the PGI, and we would be having
Speaker 4: a pretty different conversation about Rom if he had won
Speaker 4: the PGA, which is a big if, but I don't
Speaker 4: his form. It's like he's won a couple of times
Speaker 4: on live and we'd all be the I think among
Speaker 4: the first to say like that doesn't mean a whole lot,
Speaker 4: but it doesn't mean nothing. Like Rom is still a
Speaker 4: good Is he one of the third best, fourth best?
Speaker 4: I think it's hard to make the claim that he's
Speaker 4: in that bucket Andy, like he's somewhere he's the Fitzpatrick zone. Yeah,
Speaker 4: which is a crazy way to talk about one of
Speaker 4: the best European players of this generation in Rom and
Speaker 4: what he did early in his career. I still think,
Speaker 4: you know, he's very live to win. I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 4: gonna be pretty noncommittal on Rom.
Speaker 2: I think he's I think he's live to win too,
Speaker 2: like I think he said, you're he's probably I just
Speaker 2: think it. You know, when he went to Live, he
Speaker 2: was arguably the best player in the world.
Speaker 4: And he think helps that standard.
Speaker 2: Scotty probably was, but it was Rom and Scotty that
Speaker 2: year duked it out the first half of the year.
Speaker 2: Rom was, you know, from from all the time. You know,
Speaker 2: before he went he was a basically a top three
Speaker 2: player in the world. He went to Live and the
Speaker 2: results have not you know, whether it's fair or not.
Speaker 2: The litmus test was always going to be major championships,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately he's played pretty pretty by his standards, awful
Speaker 2: in major championships since he went to Live. And that's
Speaker 2: you know, that's all we have to really judge it
Speaker 2: off of because I'm not I don't care that he
Speaker 2: beat up on Anthony Kim and Scott Vincent and and uh,
Speaker 2: all right, I think we checked all the boxes, you know.
Speaker 2: Sorry we didn't get to Russe, Russell, Henley Joseph who
Speaker 2: you could pick him? Though? Who are you guys? Picks?
Speaker 2: Early picks Friday? Before you know, I always make like
Speaker 2: three different picks over the course of the week.
Speaker 3: Sneak give you to have three different podcasts to which
Speaker 3: to pick various people.
Speaker 2: I have two podcasts to pick people, and you know,
Speaker 2: if we do a newsletter, I have a third opportunity.
Speaker 3: You could appear as a guest on someone else's pod
Speaker 3: and throw in a fourth pick in there. It's you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: I will stick my neck out and pick Rory. I know,
Speaker 3: bold choice there, but I think he's playing really well
Speaker 3: and it sets up for for him well, So I'm
Speaker 3: gonna I'm gonna say that this is a two major
Speaker 3: year for Rory re establishing himself as you know, the
Speaker 3: dude within the game. Scotty's gonna have to chase him
Speaker 3: next year to sort of figure out the supremacy in
Speaker 3: the world of golf.
Speaker 4: I've talked myself into it over the last forty minutes.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do it. I believe in him. I'm gonna
Speaker 4: pick him.
Speaker 2: You's chances, all right, love that love that I will.
Speaker 2: I'll just take Scotty, Okay. I think we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about this and then he's gonna go shoot like
Speaker 2: an opening round sixty five and just put everybody in
Speaker 2: a sleeper hole and it's over.
Speaker 4: Next by next Wednesday. I think you're gonna have talk
Speaker 4: to yourself back out of Scotty.
Speaker 2: But we will. Yeah, I will, doubt I'll change my mind.
Speaker 1: Before we go.
Speaker 3: Is there anyone who you would like to see get
Speaker 3: into contention that you don't necessarily you can win, but
Speaker 3: you would love to see them in the mix, just
Speaker 3: for just growth, either narrative purposes or for agree I's agreed,
Speaker 3: all right, I'll go. Colin Morikawa hasn't been the factor
Speaker 3: in any of this stuff for quite a while, but
Speaker 3: obviously great iron player. You know, it'd just be fun
Speaker 3: to see him kind of remind people that he's still
Speaker 3: a really good player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Cali Markala would been one of the
Speaker 2: names that I was I was hoping that we would
Speaker 2: hit on at some point. But you know the thing
Speaker 2: about mar Kwa, he's twenty nine and if he gets
Speaker 2: if he he's been in the mix despite this injury,
Speaker 2: at a lot of events, and if he won, he'd
Speaker 2: have three majors at age twenty nine, and it would
Speaker 2: just like his career. The aspirations and expectations shifted when
Speaker 2: he got two so quick, but if he got to
Speaker 2: a third, it's all a sudden like wait, wait a second,
Speaker 2: like could this guy get to like four or five?
Speaker 4: Not a bad golf course. You know, if we're going
Speaker 4: to describe that powers muted a little bit and you
Speaker 4: got to strike your ball, would you be shocked if
Speaker 4: Colin more Kawa's T four after the first day and
Speaker 4: kind of makes his way up to the leaderboard throughout
Speaker 4: the rest of the weekend. I don't think that would
Speaker 4: shock anymore.
Speaker 2: And if it's not super windy, yeah, the other aspect
Speaker 2: of it, Yeah, all right, fitz Fitzy could be in
Speaker 2: the mix too.
Speaker 4: We've thrown like twenty minutes now.
Speaker 2: The Fitzi brother duel that's going on where they just
Speaker 2: like both appear on the leaderboard. Alex and Matt has
Speaker 2: spent one of my favorite things about it this year. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I don't think enough and I think this is something
Speaker 2: like all going on in sports. This has been an
Speaker 2: insane story Alex at Fitzpatrick. I mean they like I
Speaker 2: thought Alex would get to the tour at some point
Speaker 2: in his life. He's been like a legit top thirty player.
Speaker 2: There aren't a lot of examples of this, you know,
Speaker 2: where two brothers are top thirty players in their sport,
Speaker 2: Like is it? I mean, like the the Thompson twins
Speaker 2: in the NBA, like have a chance to baby get
Speaker 2: there in a couple of years. Neither of them could
Speaker 2: shoot though.
Speaker 4: This is so disrespectful to fanasas ant Tocumpo.
Speaker 3: You know, the last five minutes of a podcast are
Speaker 3: always kind of like the last half hour of Start Live,
Speaker 3: where you can just throw out any kind of weird shit.
Speaker 3: So I feel like brooks Kopka's name just ought to
Speaker 3: be mentioned just as a one last deal. Come on,
Speaker 3: all he's got to do is have one good putting week,
Speaker 3: Joseph one good puddy brooks Capka.
Speaker 4: You can clip this. Brooks Kopka is not winning next week.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, PJ. You can you can set that one up.
Speaker 4: You can book.
Speaker 2: It is that the third player that that Joseph said
Speaker 2: he has clipped and he's in the mix. He says,
Speaker 2: it's the three they talked me out of Pavan at
Speaker 2: the at the Pineers Us Open taking Pavon.
Speaker 4: Yeah forgot he won that one.
Speaker 2: It's the solo third.
Speaker 3: A super cut of all of the people we picked
Speaker 3: not to in the open, would would be great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Kevin, Joseph big, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2: We're going to halt this here. Next we're going to
Speaker 2: jump over to Derek Gary. He who has played Royal
Speaker 2: Birkdale a number of times, is a very well traveled
Speaker 2: individual with a keen eye for golf architecture. So he's
Speaker 2: going to join us to talk about Brokedale. I think
Speaker 2: he's a big fan of Birkedale. So it's this is
Speaker 2: this is a good balance. I'm not as high on it.
Speaker 2: He is high on it, and so we'll get over it.
Speaker 2: We'll go over to Dera here, but first we'll take
Speaker 2: a quick break. All right, We welcome on Darah uh Dearah,
Speaker 2: thank you for joining. Obviously a student of golf architecture,
Speaker 2: an Irishman who has seen much of the great Britain
Speaker 2: and Ireland links golf courses excited without Brokedale Birkdale. Brokedale
Speaker 2: will be hosting for the eleventh time the Open Championship
Speaker 2: and this year it will be a new look Birkdale
Speaker 2: and it's pretty much a I would say, extensive renovation.
Speaker 2: There are roughly five new golf holes, relatively new from
Speaker 2: the sense of the way they play, and or and
Speaker 2: or greens or completely new. So we will see a
Speaker 2: new Birkdale which was renovated by Tom McKenzie of Mackenzie
Speaker 2: and Ebert, a golf architecture firm that works on all
Speaker 2: the road to golf courses. Sarah, you are a well
Speaker 2: read a fan of history. Tell me about your favorite
Speaker 2: aspects of Royal Birkdale's great championship history.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Sure, great to be on. Andy as All was chatting
Speaker 6: with you about I need to do with golf. So
Speaker 6: we are as you said, we're going back to England's
Speaker 6: golf coast as they call it up there in the northwest,
Speaker 6: fecifically to Birkedale in a few weeks. But that area
Speaker 6: is just peppered with brilliant golf courses. Andy from led
Speaker 6: them to highlight to Birkedale and many many more in between.
Speaker 6: I have enjoyed Birkdale so many times. I've seen it
Speaker 6: in all its mood, moods andy. I've seen cold winter days,
Speaker 6: four club wins, and I've had nice hot summer days
Speaker 6: there without a breath of wind either. It is a
Speaker 6: very story championship golf course. It's got lots of championship history.
Speaker 6: I suppose the first thing to say is that that
Speaker 6: championship golf course term it often just strikes me as
Speaker 6: such a nonsensical one. But we'll get into a little
Speaker 6: bit about the history of how Birkdale was iterated and reiterated,
Speaker 6: and it sort of has as its backbone this hosting
Speaker 6: of championships, doesn't it. You mentioned it's got eleven opens
Speaker 6: or this is going to be it's eleventh open. But
Speaker 6: briefly on its history. Brokedale was formed in eighteen eighty
Speaker 6: nine and then had moved to its current site in
Speaker 6: eighteen ninety seven on the Berkedale Hills. It was a
Speaker 6: nine hole golf course originally and then the clubhouse was
Speaker 6: built then just around the turn of the century or
Speaker 6: nineteen hundred, but they realized that it was built outside
Speaker 6: the boundary of these, so it had to be demolished
Speaker 6: and it was quickly rebuilt to satisfy all the legalities,
Speaker 6: and the club was really thriving. The most pressing issue
Speaker 6: around the time was one year at the Christmas dinner
Speaker 6: when the usual pig's head was removed from the Christmas
Speaker 6: dinner wasn't to be seen, and twenty four signatories were
Speaker 6: put to a letter asking for it to be reinstated
Speaker 6: the next year. It was as it was such a
Speaker 6: great source of pastronomical delight to the members, so all
Speaker 6: was really well in berkdel Now. Like all golf courses
Speaker 6: in Britain and Ireland until from the eighteen eighties nineties
Speaker 6: until about the thirties, they were rudimentary. They were often
Speaker 6: iterated up and up and up. They were mostly nine
Speaker 6: holes to start, and Brookeille was no different at all.
Speaker 6: Nineteen thirty two, Fred Hawtrey and JH. Taylor of five
Speaker 6: Open Championship fame beat out her rival bid with two
Speaker 6: members to win the contract to redesign the course substantially,
Speaker 6: so you can imagine Fred Hawtrey J. H. Taylor beating
Speaker 6: out two members, so it wasn't exactly stiff competition, but
Speaker 6: it was it was the order of the day. And
Speaker 6: you know, you know, things have got a lot more
Speaker 6: competitive in life these days in every regard. But anyway, fred.
Speaker 2: I just I love the idea of the two members
Speaker 2: going up against hat Tree and Taylor, and like, just
Speaker 2: like the idea of that, I'd love to know, like
Speaker 2: their relationship with the committee members or whoever it was,
Speaker 2: were they the committee members that did they just look
Speaker 2: at hot Tree at Taylor's plan and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is way better.
Speaker 6: I'd love to have seen the plan of the two members.
Speaker 6: But anyway, they won and the course was redesigned, and
Speaker 6: then the course was granted open status or at least
Speaker 6: the promise of an open in nineteen forty with the
Speaker 6: war intervened and Andy so I'd a rab it. But
Speaker 6: this is where brook Tail has this association with championships,
Speaker 6: and it went on to host a Walker Coup in
Speaker 6: nineteen fifty one, Curtis Cup in nineteen forty eight, British
Speaker 6: Amateur won by an Irishman Jimmy Brown in nineteen forty six.
Speaker 6: But lots of golf courses in this area are championship
Speaker 6: golf courses, and I really disliked the term because all
Speaker 6: the course in the open worad are so many courses
Speaker 6: in America are Hoylake down the Road hosted the first
Speaker 6: ever the precursor to.
Speaker 1: The Walker Cup.
Speaker 6: It was the home of the Amateur Championship and so
Speaker 6: many other things, and Lidam has such a storied history
Speaker 6: as well. But Birkdale, I think it had a short
Speaker 6: lease on the premises on the various courses that occupied her,
Speaker 6: the two courses that occupied from eighteen eighty nine onwards,
Speaker 6: and I think people thought back then that golf may
Speaker 6: or may not take off, so these short leases were
Speaker 6: given and in the thirties to kind of I think
Speaker 6: it was seen as something about securing its future maybe
Speaker 6: and by extending the golf course it was implicit and
Speaker 6: really buffing it up and making such a strong desk
Speaker 6: to golf that if championship were to come, it would
Speaker 6: almost secure its future. And other golf courses were obviously
Speaker 6: talking and thinking like this as well. However, it just
Speaker 6: became synonymous with Berkdale and it's been remarkably successful. Air
Speaker 6: quotations Championship Test even though the test the phrase, but
Speaker 6: really it has produced absolutely incredible winners.
Speaker 1: You know, I think the first.
Speaker 6: Open Hell there was Peter Thompson one hundred and fifty four,
Speaker 6: and then he won again in sixty five, Palmer in
Speaker 6: sixty one, Travino seventy one, Miller seventy six, Tom Wattson
Speaker 6: and so many more. So it really if you can
Speaker 6: put account of Grade A winners to its open, that
Speaker 6: surely must count for something, even if we discount the
Speaker 6: old championship.
Speaker 1: Golf course term.
Speaker 6: So that's a little bit on the history of it.
Speaker 6: It is an interesting place. It's got an art decout
Speaker 6: clubhouse and the carpet inside is actually like an overlay
Speaker 6: of the golf course, so it's underneath your feet at
Speaker 6: all points. So it's got a funky side to it.
Speaker 6: But it's a surely brilliant golf course. It's got this
Speaker 6: championship history, and as you alluded to in your brief
Speaker 6: introduction there, it is changed substantially since we've seen in
Speaker 6: twenty seventeen, and we're really looking forward to seeing it.
Speaker 6: Notice we've had a baked at summer in Britain Ireland
Speaker 6: in a few weeks.
Speaker 2: A question about the carpet if you're if you're in
Speaker 2: one room are you on like a different hole or
Speaker 2: is the carpet just like in the foyer that's got
Speaker 2: the golf course. No, it's the carpet extend through the
Speaker 2: clubhouse and like when you're in different areas, you're below
Speaker 2: us the twelfth hale.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's in one main front room.
Speaker 6: Murders and casual dining had so and I think it's
Speaker 6: like I think there's we'll say a six foot by
Speaker 6: six foot block of it has the whole course in it.
Speaker 6: So I think at various points you could be walking
Speaker 6: the twelfth hole LNDY. I think it's what it's really
Speaker 6: fun and it's it's always been a fun place to
Speaker 6: go to. I can't wait to see it. But these
Speaker 6: changes have been substantial. Andy, I think the process initially
Speaker 6: was a member led process for these changes, and it
Speaker 6: was centered really on the fact that Birkdale has these
Speaker 6: four part threes. It's got the fourth to the twelfth
Speaker 6: and the fourteenth, and three of them play in the
Speaker 6: same direction and all four can actually play a similar
Speaker 6: yardage depending on wins. So there was a member the
Speaker 6: member desire for maybe a bit of variety, as everyone
Speaker 6: wants everyone wants for riding their baritaries for sure and
Speaker 6: certainly in direction. But as that process went on, Berkdale
Speaker 6: was awarded the twenty twenty six Open, So I guess
Speaker 6: the factors of the Open had to be the factors
Speaker 6: needed for the twenty twenty six event had to be
Speaker 6: taken into account and so basically the part threes were
Speaker 6: slightly changed. But there was also this problem solving for
Speaker 6: a championship the par five four or five four finish
Speaker 6: we saw in twenty seventeen, and then also creating extra
Speaker 6: space for tented village needs and hospitality needs, which are
Speaker 6: such a big part of an open now in this
Speaker 6: kind of era of ever increasing footprint and such a
Speaker 6: commercial success that the Open is so the members' interests,
Speaker 6: obviously we're going to be needed to be aligned with
Speaker 6: those hosting Open championship. So that's what we have been
Speaker 6: left with now at the moment. So they've done this
Speaker 6: Brandy by making first of all the old fifteenth, which
Speaker 6: was the fourth or they've made the old fifteenth to fourteenth.
Speaker 6: They've kept it a part five, and they moved the
Speaker 6: old fifteenth fairway one fairway right and this created enough
Speaker 6: space to create what is now a long Part three
Speaker 6: up to two hundred and forty yards where a ball
Speaker 6: could be ran onto at the front with the clubhouse
Speaker 6: is a beautiful backdrop. So that's got complete variety now
Speaker 6: in part threes already. And then they've shortened the seventh
Speaker 6: the par three quite considerably. I think it plays at
Speaker 6: about one hundred and fifty yards now. They've gone to
Speaker 6: water or forward tees up into the right of the
Speaker 6: sixth green, so we've got variety there straight away. And
Speaker 6: then with the extra hole on the back nine added in,
Speaker 6: they dropped out the old fourteenth, which was perceived as
Speaker 6: the weakest of the parcheries. Now where did the logistics
Speaker 6: of an open come in here?
Speaker 1: Andy?
Speaker 6: While moving the old fifteenth right, unlocked nearly two hundred
Speaker 6: meters for the practice ground, space space and space. Yeah,
Speaker 6: so the unlocked nearly two hundred meters for practice ground
Speaker 6: to be moved closer to the clubhouse. And the practice
Speaker 6: ground is the site for tented hospitality during an open,
Speaker 6: So this makes access to the course easier, access back
Speaker 6: to the clubhouse easier. I presume it makes exiting the
Speaker 6: course on a Sunday easier for everyone, and all the fans,
Speaker 6: all everyone involved, and on the member side of things,
Speaker 6: there's a new short game area goes in on the
Speaker 6: clubhouse side of that relocated range. So really happily the
Speaker 6: members have great diversity. There's a much enlarged hospitality space.
Speaker 6: But it's worth noting andy at this point in proceedings
Speaker 6: that course in the UK and Ireland have had historically
Speaker 6: less work done to them for championships than American counterparts.
Speaker 6: But really the footprint of these Opens and the success
Speaker 6: full Open championship formula going forward means that members' interests
Speaker 6: will have to align with those of the Open and
Speaker 6: hope that they both align in both parties benefit.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 6: I really like the variety, as I said, and there's
Speaker 6: other variety. They've shortened the sixteenth I think it is
Speaker 6: now in the new rota or in the new layout
Speaker 6: to become nearly a drivable Part four, which is absolutely
Speaker 6: brilliant drivable the right conditions. But I'm less said on
Speaker 6: things like a new and a large practice facility being
Speaker 6: a boost to members because I think they can often
Speaker 6: be a white elephant, and because British and Irish golfers
Speaker 6: are not as enthusiastic warm ruppers as their American counterparts.
Speaker 6: We just have a quick put in a couple of
Speaker 6: hits and a bacon sandwich into a net by the
Speaker 6: first tea, and that's seen as good for such a
Speaker 6: long time. So these can just add to costs. I
Speaker 6: think sometimes the new short game areas are an extended range.
Speaker 6: But the rejigging the practice ground has certainly been a
Speaker 6: large success in terms of an expanded hospitality area. So that,
Speaker 6: in a nutshell is the change that has been substantial
Speaker 6: changes to the fifteen seven greens which have been kind
Speaker 6: of built up, and they are more interesting holes the
Speaker 6: two of them.
Speaker 2: It's, you know, the undertones of of all this center
Speaker 2: around the needs of championship golf, and I think it's
Speaker 2: you know, from your kind of historical rundown of the club.
Speaker 2: I think when they moved to the New Land in
Speaker 2: the thirties, it became really a i would say, like
Speaker 2: a new part of their history for Brickdale. And part
Speaker 2: of that history is that they were building a golf
Speaker 2: course suited for championship golf, you know, the Open Championship
Speaker 2: in mind, and obviously they've this will be their eleventh
Speaker 2: time hosting since that. You know that, you know, the
Speaker 2: new land that they they acquired to build a golf course.
Speaker 2: And when you think about it's been a super successful
Speaker 2: Open championship host And I think when I think about
Speaker 2: just the idea of the changes in needing to change,
Speaker 2: it makes sense with everything that's happened with the game,
Speaker 2: the distance explosion, but also just like you know, I think,
Speaker 2: like when you go through the history of golf courses
Speaker 2: and architecture just in general, I think great golf architects
Speaker 2: of yesteryear never anticipated how popular the game would be.
Speaker 2: They never anticipated how popular the game would be from
Speaker 2: a playing standpoint, how many people would have to be
Speaker 2: on the golf course at a time. If you think
Speaker 2: about the old course, this is where you know, the
Speaker 2: old course went to double greens and went to wide
Speaker 2: fairways because they needed to accommodate more players. Right, So
Speaker 2: there's this whole there's always been an underestimation of how
Speaker 2: many people we're going to play the game of golf.
Speaker 2: But I think on the championship side, there's been a
Speaker 2: total underestimation of how much space was going to be
Speaker 2: needed to host made championships. As they've grown and grown
Speaker 2: and grown and grown, and you know, the adage in
Speaker 2: the business world, obviously is if you're not growing, you're dying.
Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, a fascinating subplot of
Speaker 2: all this stuff is the growing needs of major championship
Speaker 2: hosts and what's happening to the supply of golf courses
Speaker 2: that can host that have history. So, you know, golf
Speaker 2: says history is important, venues matter, but the size of
Speaker 2: the championship keeps getting bigger so that fewer and fewer
Speaker 2: venues actually matter. And for the RNA's sake, I think
Speaker 2: that RNA has been really out front with saying, like, listen,
Speaker 2: this is this is a commercial championship that floats a
Speaker 2: lot of the things that we do in the game
Speaker 2: outside of it, and for them, getting lots of fans
Speaker 2: on site is very important. And obviously, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: the the people at I hope Brickdale could say that
Speaker 2: this was a member led and member driven till they're
Speaker 2: blue in the face. The reality is there's a lot
Speaker 2: of things that we're done in this renovation to accommodate
Speaker 2: modern major championship golf. And I don't think there's anything
Speaker 2: wrong with that. It's just, you know, it's just a
Speaker 2: part of what happened.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. So,
Speaker 6: first of all, nineteen sixty seven or maybe sixty five
Speaker 6: for certain yeah, certainly around the mid sixties in Brickdale,
Speaker 6: I think it was Fred Autrey's son was bought in
Speaker 6: after it must have been when Thompson had won his
Speaker 6: second opening sixty five to renovate the golf course again,
Speaker 6: to not only make the golf course a more of
Speaker 6: us test for Open Championship players, but also to make
Speaker 6: it more accessible and easier for fans to move around.
Speaker 6: So this is so far from a new a new
Speaker 6: thing amage of golf. So that actually gave us the
Speaker 6: new twelfth or sorry, the current twelfth Toll in Brookdale,
Speaker 6: which is a beautiful picturesque poetry. So not all changes
Speaker 6: bad and I think we both agree on that. And
Speaker 6: there's been all these golf courses in the British Isles
Speaker 6: have been constantly rejigged to suit opens and to suit events.
Speaker 6: But it's it's sort of like a it's like an
Speaker 6: old piece of news, you know, in the sixties they
Speaker 6: were saying the crowds are getting so big, they're so big,
Speaker 6: But it is true that we are outgrowing the ballpark
Speaker 6: a little bit at the moment. Like if you a
Speaker 6: golf course is a living entity, and as you mentioned,
Speaker 6: it's historical, but not only that, it's living, breeding turf,
Speaker 6: and it's got Duneland. It's got so much more to it.
Speaker 6: It's not just Yankee Stadium, where if you were if
Speaker 6: it was getting more popular, you'd add another row stands
Speaker 6: on the back, you know, and nobody would notice. So
Speaker 6: there's so much more interest and so much more in
Speaker 6: the once in editing a golf course and iterating it
Speaker 6: that goes into anything else, any others or the sports field.
Speaker 6: And this juxtaposition of the grand old Dames, these venues
Speaker 6: that we that are so venerable and that we love
Speaker 6: so much, and putting that up against the need for
Speaker 6: growth and to facilitate the growth. And as you mentioned,
Speaker 6: the ORNA do so much brilliantly for golf. You know,
Speaker 6: they float everything else off the Open Championship, as you
Speaker 6: mentioned the Latin America Ams, the Asia Pacific Ams. You
Speaker 6: know that the Masters have lent into giving invoice to
Speaker 6: these winners. That's all floated off the money made in
Speaker 6: the Open Championships. But we have seen it you were
Speaker 6: entirely correct port Rush. I think they moved to or
Speaker 6: certainly changed the practice ground to suit the hospitality ten needs.
Speaker 6: So it's not a new question. Nineteen sixties they were
Speaker 6: donning in Bruckdale. We're seeing it again. But there is
Speaker 6: a limit, of course, to how much this can happen
Speaker 6: and how much the footprint can grow. Andy, and I
Speaker 6: think maybe that's where your trouble with this comes along.
Speaker 6: Whereas I think this is a net positive for the members.
Speaker 6: I think they've gained great variety in the barteries. I
Speaker 6: think even as even for this British Open, the eighteenth
Speaker 6: has been changed much better home now and the tea's
Speaker 6: go down and left instead of being up and right.
Speaker 6: You know, it used to be a bit of a
Speaker 6: dog leg. It's a straight, austere, really linxy looking hole now.
Speaker 6: The sixteenth, as I mentioned, is a drive about part
Speaker 6: four now much better variety. So that's where I think
Speaker 6: we stand at the moment. But we certainly it's a
Speaker 6: very interesting time to be involved in administrating and open
Speaker 6: and imagine, and it's certainly a very interesting time to
Speaker 6: be a member of an open golf course because you've
Speaker 6: a lot of opportunity to improve your golf course, but
Speaker 6: you have to suppose exercise caution about certain aspects of
Speaker 6: the footprint.
Speaker 2: Instead of alignment is always challenging between you know, a club,
Speaker 2: and then if you throw in a let ae, the
Speaker 2: two party instead of alignment's hard three party becomes very challenging.
Speaker 2: Birkdale has been known notoriously like this, you know, it's
Speaker 2: like kind of the second thing ever said about Burkedale's
Speaker 2: the fairest links test in the Open Roda. How would you?
Speaker 2: Why would why is it characterized as that? And if
Speaker 2: you were going to put it on a scale, you know,
Speaker 2: like how is it different from the likes of maybe
Speaker 2: Hoylake or the Old Course where people might say it's fluky?
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, Well I am an unabashed lover of Hoylake
Speaker 6: and certainly the Old course. But Hoylc, I think is
Speaker 6: like the pinnacle of subtle golf. It is micro undulation
Speaker 6: combined with it excellently firm golf course, but the undulation
Speaker 6: is so subtle. And obviously parts of Hoylac you see
Speaker 6: an old polo ground and I'm sure you probably know
Speaker 6: that that's how flat some of the golf courses, and
Speaker 6: then obviously they took it out too kind of closer
Speaker 6: to the the estuary, so it does have some movement
Speaker 6: over there. But hoylec is wonderful. And I think there's
Speaker 6: this split in opinion in British and Irish golf about
Speaker 6: preference for a certain style of links course. There are
Speaker 6: those who favor a more dramatic execution test like Brookdale,
Speaker 6: or those who prefer the subtlely of Hoilak, where the
Speaker 6: microndulation on the ground can pull a ball even from
Speaker 6: the middle of a fairway into a bunker, or it
Speaker 6: can just stay in the middle of ferry would be
Speaker 6: resting on a very small knob, which completely alters a
Speaker 6: very seemingly simple approach shot with a wedge because the
Speaker 6: ball is now four inches above you on a very
Speaker 6: fur piece of turf. But then those in fervor in
Speaker 6: favor of a style like Brookdale will say that Lynx
Speaker 6: Golf already has so much vagary in it, some sea
Speaker 6: and wind surrounding and built in firma sandy and we've
Speaker 6: had a wonderful few weeks here and it's going to
Speaker 6: be really firm out there in a few weeks time.
Speaker 3: In Brookdale.
Speaker 6: But you know that you already have you got this
Speaker 6: firmness and those vagaries, that it's already so different to
Speaker 6: normal we'll say Heatland golf or PGA Tour golf for
Speaker 6: regular DPE World Tour golf, that you don't even need
Speaker 6: the microundulation, that it is already completely elevated and very different.
Speaker 6: You know, I suppose I think me and you think
Speaker 6: quite similarly. I think the peak of the peak golf
Speaker 6: that I will always remember was Tiger in two thousand
Speaker 6: and six at Hoylake, and maybe in two thousand that
Speaker 6: Saint Andrews, where we got the right conditions to bring
Speaker 6: out what micro undulation can do to a golf ball.
Speaker 6: Because Tiger played so conservatively, he was using spin as
Speaker 6: his friend, he was doing so many cool things with
Speaker 6: the golf ball, all to avoid being pulled into even
Speaker 6: the wrong areas on fairweys where he knew he knew
Speaker 6: there was undulation, or where he knew he'd have an
Speaker 6: unfavorable lie even though he was on the fairway to
Speaker 6: attack a certain pain, or his ball could be pulled
Speaker 6: from the middle of a fairway into a bunker if
Speaker 6: he used the driver even went down the middle of
Speaker 6: the fairway. So I think that's what I will like.
Speaker 6: That is why I will I will always bat and
Speaker 6: say that Hoylake is one of my favorite places in
Speaker 6: the word to play golf, and obviously the other horses
Speaker 6: as well. But you do have the split between people
Speaker 6: who love the drama of Brickdale and then there's others
Speaker 6: who love the subtle of mirefields, love these of Hoilick
Speaker 6: and places like that. But I want to all to
Speaker 6: be alive, and it is definitely live in places like Hoilich.
Speaker 1: And people will say that because we talked.
Speaker 6: On the pot previously Andy about how when Harry Colt
Speaker 6: redesigned world County down or heavily iterated it in the
Speaker 6: nineteen twenties, he went, Hey, he bought the holes over
Speaker 6: the dune land, he played over Duneland to create these
Speaker 6: wonderful gold folds that we know it oral County down.
Speaker 6: Whereas Hawtrey and Taylor's philosophy in Brooktail was actually put
Speaker 6: the holes in the valley, in the valleys rather than
Speaker 6: the dunes. So we've got this self contained field completely
Speaker 6: opposite of what col did. He avoided or sorry they
Speaker 6: Hawtrey and Taylor avoided having blind shots by going through
Speaker 6: the dunes, and the dunes were so impressive Andy that
Speaker 6: there was an American or sorry, an African adventure film
Speaker 6: was shot in them in the late nineteen twenties, you know,
Speaker 6: So it just shows you the scale of them. But
Speaker 6: what I like to think of now, when I'm thinking
Speaker 6: about the build up to this open, I think that
Speaker 6: because it's going to be so firm, so fast, you
Speaker 6: can run out of fairway, hopefully you can balls run
Speaker 6: into the dunes. You might see Jordan's speed with his
Speaker 6: right foot three foot above his left foot hitting a
Speaker 6: edge over a fifteen foot mound. And there are other
Speaker 6: challenges in the places like Burkedale, and there are other
Speaker 6: neuralnks golf courses that are a little bit like Brickdail
Speaker 6: as well. So I think I get from you that
Speaker 6: maybe you are, like me, a lover of Hoylake, you
Speaker 6: love e Lee, you know all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 6: But don't forget their brilliant golf courses like deal Down
Speaker 6: in the Southwest that have I wouldn't say maybe doom land,
Speaker 6: but they have lots of undulation, lots of throughput, certainly
Speaker 6: out on the kind of seaside holes in deal. You
Speaker 6: know the macro and macro is not bad when it's
Speaker 6: utilized correctly. So I'd love to hear your take on
Speaker 6: what do you know about Birkedale? What do you think
Speaker 6: about that? And I know we're coming out probably from
Speaker 6: the same angle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, in terms of like by
Speaker 2: you know, the places I most want to see, and
Speaker 2: I haven't been to Birkedale, it falls a little bit
Speaker 2: further down the list because of a lot of what
Speaker 2: you described. I am very into the I'm very into golf.
Speaker 2: That is very vague. That being said, I think when
Speaker 2: you get the elements right, you know, one of the
Speaker 2: beauties of Birkedale style of you know, and I don't
Speaker 2: want this to come across is you know, I think
Speaker 2: it's important to preface of we're talking about Leak's golf,
Speaker 2: where the balls alive when it hits the ground, assuming
Speaker 2: it's firm and you know it's it amplifies everything. So
Speaker 2: this is not what we're talking about with you know,
Speaker 2: TPC Minnesota, where if it rains, it's just going to
Speaker 2: be a dart fest. But the the idea of there
Speaker 2: being golf being a little bit more of a riddle
Speaker 2: is always and I think like some of that's been
Speaker 2: muted as golf's evolved, for sure, But I think the
Speaker 2: thing that can be appealing about a test like Birkedale
Speaker 2: is the understanding of it's you're either good or you're bad.
Speaker 2: The execution aspect of it can be good. But that
Speaker 2: being said, I think that it's always preferred when you
Speaker 2: get a golf course that has all the aspects of this,
Speaker 2: when it has the vagaries of the microcontours but also
Speaker 2: some of the more dramatic features and then some punitive
Speaker 2: you know. I think years ago I did a podcast
Speaker 2: with Tom Doak where you know, you talk about everybody
Speaker 2: like loves putting golf courses into schools of design, and
Speaker 2: there's you know, the you know, the strategic, the penal,
Speaker 2: there's heroic and the reality is like the best golf
Speaker 2: courses have a little bit of everything. And I think
Speaker 2: that's you know where Brokedale, like the the being described
Speaker 2: as fair flatter fair ways like that is less appealing
Speaker 2: to me, but it doesn't mean that it can't host
Speaker 2: a good championship.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So this is this is something I think about all
Speaker 6: the time sometimes golf I think you've mentioned terms like vague.
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting term. I want.
Speaker 6: I don't want to know when I play golf, for
Speaker 6: the ball will end up. That's why we love firmness.
Speaker 6: But that's also why we love subtle contours around greens.
Speaker 6: We love them internally in fair ways because golf, I
Speaker 6: think is a game. It's like a game of chance almost,
Speaker 6: And you mentioned riddle, and I think of it much less.
Speaker 6: It certainly is a sport, andy, and I would never
Speaker 6: say it's not a sport, but I love to think
Speaker 6: of it as a game of chance. And when you
Speaker 6: say riddle, that really hits home with me as well.
Speaker 6: We think about it in the same way. Because the
Speaker 6: nuance has been taken out of the game by technology.
Speaker 6: It has been absolutely evaporated out. The skill level at
Speaker 6: the top of the game has been condensed. So sometimes
Speaker 6: a good player in my home club once said to
Speaker 6: me what did I think ball striking was? And I
Speaker 6: probably responded saying something stupid, like the ability to flush
Speaker 6: the ball or repeatedly hit it, you know, along.
Speaker 1: And straight or something like that.
Speaker 6: But he said, no, it's someone who can hit the
Speaker 6: ball that required distance on repeat. Now that's easy if
Speaker 6: you're playing a you know, kind of a weekly DP
Speaker 6: World Tour tracker most of the PGA Tour courses. But
Speaker 6: if the ball is four inches above your feet in
Speaker 6: Hoylake sitting on a baked lie and there is a
Speaker 6: very small pimple of a knob in front of a green,
Speaker 6: that is a completely different shot then on a flat fairway.
Speaker 6: So I completely appreciate that that is where a ball
Speaker 6: striker will find it much easier to put the ball
Speaker 6: to twenty feet pin high, and what might look like
Speaker 6: an averagehot is actually an excellent shot. So I couldn't
Speaker 6: agree more here, Like I just think that those kind
Speaker 6: of courses like Hoylake Mirfield, I'd like to think work
Speaker 6: like golf in Port Marnik is exactly the same. You
Speaker 6: could be looking at someone from twenty feet away and
Speaker 6: that might look like an easy shot in the middle
Speaker 6: of error, but you don't actually know that. You know,
Speaker 6: the total club is four it's two inches in the air,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 2: And I mean that's the thing though about the whole
Speaker 2: course is when it's on TV, people that have in
Speaker 2: bed there say it looks it looks really bland, because really,
Speaker 2: I think the best contours of golf actually don't get
Speaker 2: shown well from a telecast they you know.
Speaker 6: I remember I was playing the ninth in Port Marnick,
Speaker 6: and Port Marnick doesn't photograph well. It is truly a
Speaker 6: wonderful golf course. But I got low light one night
Speaker 6: and the fifty hours before the green just popped andy,
Speaker 6: you know, And I'm forever hidden run off shots that
Speaker 6: at ninth Green in Port Marnick instead of hitting sandwich
Speaker 6: in or whatever, and you could just see all these
Speaker 6: one foot little mounds rippling across and everything, you know,
Speaker 6: is it showed everything about micro versus macro. But you know,
Speaker 6: back to Bertill we are. I've played it several times,
Speaker 6: many many times, and I've learned to embrace that it
Speaker 6: has such drama and I'm really desperate not to use
Speaker 6: the term championship links and the test of execution, but
Speaker 6: it really does bring out the best when it is firm,
Speaker 6: and it will be firm in a few weeks. And
Speaker 6: it is a completely different style of links golf, but
Speaker 6: albeit it is links golf, and it is so much
Speaker 6: superior to the product that we get forty eight weeks
Speaker 6: a year and on TV, and it is just a
Speaker 6: little bit different to those high legs, to those deals,
Speaker 6: to those mirefields, but it is to be completely celebrated.
Speaker 6: I absolutely love it every time I go there because,
Speaker 6: as I say, variety has been taken out of golf,
Speaker 6: out of our The product on TV is completely different.
Speaker 6: We're so lucky to get Shinnecock this year, but you
Speaker 6: know we're kind of deprived. We're starved. There's a dirt
Speaker 6: of this sort of stuff and Brickdale. You set down
Speaker 6: your list, you don't seem to have a burning desire
Speaker 6: to get there. And I appreciate you want to go
Speaker 6: to all these places. You know, you love the ELI
Speaker 6: as I mentioned, and you probably want to go to
Speaker 6: Form being all this, but Brickdale is a monster amongst
Speaker 6: these golf courses as well. It's just in its own
Speaker 6: way and it shares this beautiful history with them, all
Speaker 6: of hosting championships up in this England's golf course. As
Speaker 6: I mentioned at the.
Speaker 2: Start, awesome. Well we'll go out on that note. I mean,
Speaker 2: I could couldn't get better words to get us excited
Speaker 2: for this week. Yeah, thanks as always for joining the podcast.
Speaker 2: People can find your work. You are a You're a
Speaker 2: I guess a frequent guest at a number of platforms
Speaker 2: here Cookie Jar and then people can find you playing
Speaker 2: all over the all over Great Britain in Ireland.
Speaker 6: They can and thanks so much for having me. Andy,
Speaker 6: I just want to say that Frannie and who hasn't
Speaker 6: been to Birkdale, who you're listening or indeed links Golf,
Speaker 6: you know not all links Golf is the same. Birkdail
Speaker 6: is incredibly unique. That encourage you all to come over
Speaker 6: and compared in contrasts with Neighbors and Hoylake Li them
Speaker 6: go up to Scotland, go down to Roys and George's
Speaker 6: then come across Ireland, because there's nothing better than Links Golf.
Speaker 3: Andy.
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm going to go ahead on.
Speaker 2: All right, Thanks Sarah, cheers Andy, all right, big thanks
Speaker 2: to everybody for listening to the podcast. As a reminder,
Speaker 2: we have just a ton of stuff going on across
Speaker 2: the company. Go to the Friday dot com there's a
Speaker 2: bunch of written material. We will have a live blog
Speaker 2: going probably starting Tuesday or Wednesday. We debuted this at
Speaker 2: the US Open. It's just a fun place for us
Speaker 2: to just drop short anecdotes, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, anecdotes
Speaker 2: about what's going on. There'll be insights from Kevin and
Speaker 2: Brendan who will be on the grounds as well as
Speaker 2: you know, sleep deprived staffers like me, Joseph, Will Garrett. Well,
Speaker 2: it'll be fun. I think the live blog will be
Speaker 2: will be hummon this week, so check that out as well.
Speaker 2: As we just have a lot of stuff. Our YouTube
Speaker 2: page should have some material up there are the Shotgun
Speaker 2: Start will be doing daily breakdowns. And big thanks to
Speaker 2: PJ for putting this all together, putting all the audio
Speaker 2: products together. He's uh, he's grinding, so big thanks for PJ.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry he had to come in and talk about
Speaker 2: the regression monster in this episode, and I'm also sorry
Speaker 2: that that PCA is just putting them in a body
Speaker 2: bag with the with the anti regression. So thanks to PJ.
Speaker 2: H and we'll see you next week talking what happened
Speaker 2: with Trevor Immulman.