WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Kathleen Hanna 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:08.560 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:15.120 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:16.480 I'm here of this Quest Love. 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.319 You know, ever since that Willow episode, I gotta say, 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.480 I'm kind of liking this more intimate one on one thing. 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.520 Nothing against the Supreme fan, but you know, these are 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.840 kind of fun for me, and this one especially holds dear. 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:37.600 I will basically say that this conversation is probably thirty 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.520 years overdue. I'm almost certain that our Yesterday doesn't even 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:47.480 know the silent impact she's had on my entire organization. 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.720 She'll find out right now, Right Surprises. 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.160 The Bell Right surprise as a bell Our guest is legendary, 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.920 of course, name it bikini Kill. Latigue of the Julie 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:06.160 Willing pioneered the Riot Girl movement. Magazine publisher, poet, fan 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:13.399 of cheesy seventies variety shows like Myself, spouse of my 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:19.800 very first online scrabble rival, New York Times bestselling author 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.080 of the memoir Rebel Girl, My life as a feminist punk. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.720 You know, if you are a fan of the show or. 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.039 You're familiar with my history, she probably doesn't know it, 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:35.360 but she was the seed that helped start the Black 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:41.760 Lily movement that I guess I'm famous for or associated with. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.520 From my side of the fence, What can I say? 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:49.320 This is long overdue, Kathleen Hannah, thank you for talking 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.320 to me. I know your husband's going to be upset 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.320 because I know he feels like I'm having everyone but 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.320 him on the show. He will get his turn. He 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.920 will get his turn. How are you today. 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.400 I'm good. I'm so thrilled to be talking to you. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:05.560 It does feel like a thousand years overdue. Like I 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.600 feel like you're like Superman and we're always you know, 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.679 you're like Clark kentying out on me, Like I'm like 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.119 where he was just here, Like I feel like we've 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:14.799 had that for like the past thirty years. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:19.200 I lived a life where I used my work and 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.799 my occupation to avoid life. 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:23.359 And oh really. 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.360 Is that? How come You've like done like three thousand 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.519 things and you're like the total like you know, renaissance 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.240 man goal for every other artist. 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.280 I mean, you know, on paper, it's nice, but. 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.399 You know, I've gone through uh kind of a life 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.040 transformation in the last three years where I now know 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:49.400 the power of no and vacation and you know, make 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.040 time with my girlfriend, and I think date night, you know, 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.240 game night like things that have nothing to do with working, 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.560 which you know is nothing but distract So let me 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.520 just let you know. And you know, I work on 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.839 a talk show, and oftentimes I know that, especially when 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:13.680 guests write books or memoirs, I'm almost certain that they 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.480 are under the impression that the person interviewing them has 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:22.200 not read the entire piece or the entire book. Usually 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.359 like a producer and an assistant will do such a thing. 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.360 This is absolutely not the case. 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.760 I probably finished your book in a record like six 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:39.480 days and was rather surprised at how parallel our journey 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.160 from here to there sort of ran. There are a 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:44.880 lot of times in the book in which I was like, 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:48.000 oh wow. At times, a person thinks that they go 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.680 through something alone, and I was one of those former 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:56.800 people pleasers that sort of made career decisions based on 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:02.280 the perception of other people or their approval. You know, 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.640 what happens if we signed this label? Oh god, what 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.000 happens if I do this commercial? What happens if I'm 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.760 seeing with this particular You know, I actually like the 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.720 work of Blah Blah Blah, who's massively popular, but I 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:16.440 can't be seen with them in public cause people think 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:22.400 I'm alf you know. Yeah, every aspect of your story 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.440 really really impressed me, which is weird because I mean, 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:27.560 I want to talk about it so much, but I 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:32.320 also don't want to alert it for your audience that 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.600 hasn't read it yet or you know, make this the 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.000 paraphrase version of it. So I'll figure out ways to 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.640 ask you specific questions. But I you know, I want 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.760 to start off this episode by letting our audience know 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.679 that this this book's a must. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.080 Read, an absolute must read. I'll start by asking you 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:52.279 what is the process. 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.400 Now, I'm a person that's written nine books, but even 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:57.760 in writing those nine books, I. 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.760 Realized it's like just nuts. 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.719 Well, no, no, no, I'm gonna tell you. Well, the thing 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.719 is is that I journal kind of to keep my sanity. 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:08.960 Yeah, I know me too. I journal every day. 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:14.560 Right, and then now that their social media, like oftentimes, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.680 I'll overspill in a post, and if I do it 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:23.000 too much, then yeah, my publisher is gonna call and 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.159 be like, hey, dog, can you not give the milk 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.600 away for free? Like all that you did in the 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.520 last three posts could been in the book, And usually 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.400 that's the point where they're telling me, like, channel that 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.480 energy into your contract fulfillment instead of giving it away 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:42.680 on Instagram. And one of the last things that my 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:47.800 ex told me was, you know, I can't wait for 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.320 the day in which you write your real first book. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:53.719 And I was like, well, I got nine already, Like 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:54.799 what else can I write about? 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:55.560 Ouch? 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.279 And she said, come on, now that she's like writing 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:04.880 about records and breakbeats and you know art, that's your distraction. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.960 You know when you're going to write the real book. 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.400 So I'll ask you, when. 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:11.359 Am I going to write the real book? 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.279 No? No, no, no, my god, no. But I want 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:14.680 to know. 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:16.800 If there's another real book behind that real book, it's 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:18.719 going to be really scary. It's like a horror movie. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:20.080 I'll just make a horror movie. 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.280 So there's two books I've read this year that were memoirs, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:31.880 musical memoirs. One of them nicely danced around specifics to 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:36.960 sort of protect relationships or maintain them. Yours was very 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.360 blatant and very honest on how you felt about specific people. 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:45.800 What is the first step in realizing that you're going 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:51.159 to overspill and share with us your life and. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.520 How does that affect the people that you write about? 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:55.800 Yeah, I never thought about it. I just sat down 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.040 and wrote. I really just sat down and wrote and 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.480 wrote and wrote. It was really for me. I didn't 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.160 think about an audience at all, Like when I first 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:06.320 started writing, which was like, you know, years ago, and 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.039 I knew it was a book, Like I wrote the 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.640 introduction like ten years ago and then ended up I 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.440 changed it all, of course, but I was just sort 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.280 of writing it a little bit, and I didn't have 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.800 a publisher or whatever. And then finally I was like, 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:21.840 I just need to do this to get to the 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:23.480 next stage of my life, you know how Like there's 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.720 different like things that you've made that you're known by, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:28.400 Like you know, people walk up to you on the 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.600 street and they're like, you know, this is the thing, 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:33.200 and it's annoying because you're like, I don't want to 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.440 talk about that. Actually, my real love is directing, or 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:38.560 my real love is you know what I mean. It's 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.080 like you get known as you know, if you're in 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.240 a commercial and someone's like you were in that VW 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.280 commercial for the rest of your life, and it's like 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.160 I was sort of like really trapped in this, like 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.960 riot girl thing and like the like you wrote the 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.040 smell saxteen Spirit line or you know other like weird 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.320 mini scandals I was involved in, and I was like, 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.280 you know, I just I don't want to like not 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.480 talk about that anymore. And part of that is me 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.880 getting over stuff that I never dealt with, and so 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.120 I really kind of wrote it just to get it 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.400 all out on the page, and I wasn't I knew 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.040 that I got to edit it later. You know, I'm 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.120 an adult. I've done like a lot of projects, so 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.800 like I know, I'm not writing this and everybody's going 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.120 to see it, and having the same confidence that I 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:22.800 had with it that I have with my journal, where 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:24.080 it's like no one's going to read this, so I 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.960 can write whatever I want. And I had fun with it. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:28.960 I was like I would think of a title like 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.080 Benjamin Franklin's Glasses and then you know, you have like 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.599 catchphrases in your life that you used to talk to 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.360 your friends with, where like for me, like the smells 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.280 Like teen Spirit story, which is like I wrote Kurt 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:42.959 smells like teen Spirit on his wall and then he 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.160 used as a song Like people have asked me about 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.319 that a lot right, and so it's I started calling 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.800 it the you know smells like Benjamin Franklin's glasses, and 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.199 I would be like, it's like I found Benjamin Franklin's 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.880 glasses in the trash. And everybody's like, ooh, there's the 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.079 girl who found Benjamin Franklin's you know glasses in the trash. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.680 And I was like, I'm actually like a feminist artist 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.840 who's been working for thirty five years and like, I 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:05.400 have a lot of projects I'd love to talk to 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.440 you about, but they're like, but tell me about Benjamin 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:12.800 fraid Tight. So I didn't specifically actually write that story 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.400 like to you know, get people off my back or whatever. 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.840 But I did write everything, like everything, and then I 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.000 edited it later and that's when I thought about it 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.199 and I changed. I did change names. I changed almost 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:28.720 everybody's names unless they were in a positive light, and. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.280 So they were okay, okay. 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.960 And there were people there's a particular person who who 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.120 is really messed up in the book and basically commits 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.960 crime and against me, and uh, I called that person 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.520 and said, I'm going to tell this story and you 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.120 need to get a therapist and be prepared. I changed 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.079 your name, but some of our friends are going to 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.120 know its you. So I want you to prepare yourself 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.040 and I don't want to make kill themselves, you know 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:53.400 what I mean. 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:55.319 What was his reaction? 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:57.920 You know, I wish I wouldn't have called. That's all 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:02.760 I can say. I mean, he was like, he's like, 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:04.680 you know, it's your story and you can tell it. 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:06.319 I can't stop you. But it was like a big 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.880 pity party of things in his life that have gone 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.520 wrong and that you know, he had a whole new 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.400 story for why the bad incident happened. I was like, 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.720 I can't rewrite it. I already wrote it. So the 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.400 story answer is I didn't think about it. I got 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.200 my butt in the chair and I worked, and then 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:21.840 I would have these long periods of time where it 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:23.880 just worked and worked and worked and work, and then 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:25.760 I would have periods of time where I had a 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.559 nervous breakdown and went to crisis counseling, like for three 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.720 days a week, and then I would get back to work. 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:32.680 That's what I was going to ask you, because the 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.120 thing is is that unlike my movement, you know, the 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.600 Neo Soul movement, both of our movements, I would say 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:45.920 start with the the quote the idea of I'm certain 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:51.920 there was an actual Seattle movement or Northwest movement, but I, 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.760 you know, pretty much even I knew that we were 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:01.160 responding to the idea of what we thought the Seattle 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:05.880 movement was things move on and things subside and things. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:06.959 Are in your rear view mirror. 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.920 How did it feel to have to unpack that period 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.200 in your life because like, literally chapter after chapter, it's 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.160 one thing to keep a band together, but it's a 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.959 whole other thing where you also have to keep yourself 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:27.240 together and protect your sanity, but also like organize a movement. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.000 And I'll say the main difference between you and I, 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:38.360 luckily because of the development of the Internet. For me 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.240 at least ninety eight ninety nine, you know, I thought 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.240 it was all unique, like the only person in music 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.280 who allows this fan base to curse him out or 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.000 criticize them or say whatever the fuck they want to. 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.760 But that's contained in like this world on the Internet. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:59.240 Whereas because you're eight years before you know, you're dealing 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:04.480 with newsletters and actual people coming you've essentially a pre 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:09.280 social media pioneer, although it wasn't invented yet because you 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:10.640 came out so damn early. 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:12.360 But all the things that happened, like. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.679 The idea of people spewing out their opinions mid show, 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.120 you know, all the toxic energy you had to have. 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.840 You're juggling like four or five things at once, and 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.880 you're learning lessons. You're learning lessons about feminism, you're learning 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.760 lessons about yourself, you're learning lessons about your health. 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:33.719 Like all these things. 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.800 But to really put yourself in that position to go 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:42.200 back and revisit how taxing was that on you today, 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.000 to revisit those periods the. 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.160 Way I would say when I would get home from work, 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.560 because I would be like I just created my face 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.839 with the cheese grater for eight hours. That's what it 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.080 felt like. I felt. I really felt. I was like 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.520 my face was blank, I was dead behind the eyes, 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.120 like I was going in and out of being present. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:07.520 Like it was awful. Awful, but so is crisis counseling. 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.960 I mean, And it was basically like I was. I 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:17.400 saved myself a lot of therapy because I actually sat 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.080 there and wrote down stuff I'd never even admitted to myself, 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.400 and a lot of it didn't There's three hundred extra pages. 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.319 It didn't end up in the book because it originally 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:28.280 was like Ryacral Hobbit and they were six entred pages long. 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:32.880 You might get it in a different form. But yeah, 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:34.240 a lot of a lot of the stories I cut 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.440 out were because they were more visual, Like it was 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.360 like that you had to be their kind of stories 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.480 where it's like, you know, we're on acid and we're 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.640 like running towards the sky in the park. Looks like 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.640 he's juggling. We're like, it's a clown. And then we 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.960 get close to him and we're like, oh shit, he 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.480 has not a ninja. It's a ninja turn around, like 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.160 you know what I mean, Like it doesn't really work 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.680 in a book. Yeah, it was horrible, That's all I 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.800 can say. It was absolutely awful because it was like 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.160 excavating all of the stuff that you know. So I 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.680 had also suppressed and pushed down to keep going to 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.320 the next project, and that was part of the reason 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.720 why I worked so much, you know what I mean. 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.280 And I didn't turn out like a kazilion albums, but 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.560 I was constantly doing projects. Even when I went through 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.720 a long period while I was pretty sick, I was 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.960 still like I wrote a pilot for a TV show 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.240 and you know, I could tell you twenty other things 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.280 that I did while I was still ill, because I 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:24.800 just had even if it was from bed, if I 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.240 had one good day, I had to use it. And 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:28.600 part of that is just like I grew up as 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.680 a kid and I felt like I was really a zombie, 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.560 Like I had to turn myself off to live in 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.960 my household. And so when I kind of came to 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.240 when I moved out when I was seventeen, I was 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.760 like living with vengeance. Like I was like, I have 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:49.040 to pack as much stuff into this one life as possible. 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.000 And also all the people you know that I've lost 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:56.400 along the way to like drugs, suicide aids, you know, 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:58.480 it's hard not to feel like you're living for them, 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.320 Like you know, every day you have a part of 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.640 their character with you that comes out and you're like, 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.320 I want to let that part of this person shying today, 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.320 you know, Like, but then that can become this weird 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.960 like toxically positive bullshit that then you have to contend 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.080 with that. So I just try to be in the 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.280 present as much as humanly possible, and writing the book, 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.120 the whole point of it was to get me into 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.280 the present. Was to be like I'm going to grapple 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:24.960 with this thirty five years or even you know, my 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.680 whole life. I'm going to grapple with that. And then 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.040 I'm going to be like I did that and now 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.200 here I am. And sure I still like have bad 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.880 memories of stuff or like whatever. But the thing that 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.000 was really kind of miraculous was I just realized how 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:39.840 much I lead with the negative, you know what I mean, 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.960 like a lot. It was so easy. It wasn't easy, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.080 but it was like I went straight for the juggler. 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:46.720 Like I was like, I went to all the worst 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.120 moments in my life really quick. And part of it 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.720 was because I needed to. I really needed to do that. 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.520 But then I was like, whoa, no one's going to 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.680 read this. This is going to make people just throw up, 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.600 Like I got to put some joy in here. And 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.960 then I just started being like they started popping out 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:05.800 like you know, Jack in the Box style, like just 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.240 like joy joy joy, And I was like, oh yeah, 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.160 that guy in Minneapolis who like said I'll record your 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.880 band in my garage. I love what you're doing and 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.240 I and that made me feel like accepted in the 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.680 punk scene, you know what I mean, Like and it 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:20.920 was just a tiny gesture from this one person that 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.160 probably they didn't even I don't think that guy even 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.240 read the book or knows or remembers. Right, this guy 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.000 to Max said I'll record you, and you know, record 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:33.760 us and my first touring band, Vibachnevl, And it meant 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.400 the world to me, you know, remembering the first time 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:41.920 that I heard my vocals sounding good in headphones, Like literally, 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.280 as I was writing it, I was remembering it for 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.720 the first time, and I was sitting in that garage 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.640 listening to my voice with reaverb on it and going, oh, 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.720 my god, this is what I want to do forever. Right, 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.240 What a gift that I had to go through. I 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.120 had to kind of like, you know, dig myself out 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.520 with a shovel. I kept seeing in my head when 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.359 I was writing, like a kind of a newly dug grave, 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:06.800 like the soil and stuff, and I felt like my 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.960 hand was just sticking out and I had to reach it, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.000 pull my hand and get me out of the grave. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.280 And once I dug myself out, I was like, Oh, 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.480 look at all this awesome stuff that happened that maybe 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.040 you didn't fully appreciate in the moment. And I'm able 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.200 to appreciate it now, and in a lot of cases 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.160 I did. I had a great time, like I've had 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.199 an awesome life. 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.600 What I do want to know is, and I know 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.080 that your story is your story alone, but when you 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.639 decide to do the journey man of going in the 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:45.720 punk scene or the NDE rock scene, it's doing what 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.760 is perceived as you know, major labels and big business 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:54.360 and all that stuff. Is this typical of what one 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:59.359 can expect in terms of do it yourself? It's twenty 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.560 four hours a day. You might have a flat tire 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.439 the next day. You don't know whose couch you're going 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.040 to sleep on. Next week you might have bubblegum for dinner. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.760 Like, is that still. 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.480 The modus operandi now in twenty twenty four is? Or 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.040 did you pioneer it so well that now life is 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:21.159 easier for those who are sort of in the space. 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:23.960 I think it's changed in that I don't really know 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:25.840 because I'm not twenty right now, so I have no idea. 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.480 But we do have really amazing opening bands that have 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.080 been playing for us on tour, and they'll sleep on 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.320 people's couches. I mean usually you know, they'll sleep in 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.920 like a Holiday and Express or a lat Quinta, but or. 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.320 Like would have been five Star does yeah, yeah. 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.440 Yeah, because they had their like a name brand, so 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.040 you could trust the towels. But no, it's like they 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.280 they'll sleep on to them. I think it's different, and 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.920 it's not every single band, but like this one amazing band, 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.280 Sweeping Promises, we were touring with, and it's like I 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:58.040 think it's also you know, post COVID whatever, people are 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.560 really excited to see each other and so right now 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.040 at this moment, it's a different touring experience where it's like, oh, 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.280 I'm so excited I get to go to Kansas because 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.320 I have these two people that I've been writing to 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.199 on the internet that are going to be there and 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.960 we're going to hook up and hang out afterwards. I 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.360 don't think, and I also think young bands are they're 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.440 still struggling, but they're struggling in different ways. I think 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.879 they struggle with the amount of stuff they have to 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:27.240 extra unpaid labor of content production on the web that 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.359 they have to do that like I'm lucky that I 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.119 don't have to. I mean, I have to do exact 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.359 a business and stuff, but like I'm just not that 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:37.400 interested in that, and like I try to figure out 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:39.880 I've actually learned from the younger generation, like the way 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.320 younger generation where they're like, I, you can't call me 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.800 after business hours, you can't, you know, And I'm like, 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.880 at first, I was like, yeah, I was like exactly. 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.040 I was like, I was like, how dare you have boundaries? 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.720 I have eighteen jobs on different index cards, and I 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:55.639 look up every day and which one would be funnest 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:57.679 to work on today, and I do that, but then 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.600 I do like the you know, crappy business financial part 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:02.919 at the end of the day, and then I was like, no, 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.400 that's awesome. I should have weekends free. It's so hard 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.440 for me to be like I'm gonna have weekends free, 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:10.240 you know. But now that the book's done, I have 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.159 to protect my weekends, you know. And I have to 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.879 say five o'clock, that's it. Sometimes it ends up being 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.200 seven o'clock. But I try to say five o'clock, that's it. 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.119 And then I try to leave it. And I have 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:24.760 a firm role and it's hard, it's really hard. But 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.840 like I wake up, I write my journal, I drink 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:32.200 my first coffee, and I sit in my really fancy 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.120 Eames chair that I bought myself. That is the most 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.920 comfortable chair I've ever seen it in my life. With 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.280 my feet up, and my dog gets on my lap. 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:42.760 My dog, who smells like a salm in factory, gets 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.400 on my lap, and I pet her, and I pat 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.040 her and pet her and pet her and drink my coffee. 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.400 And I don't look at the computer, and I don't 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.719 look at the phone until I've written in my journal 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.959 and I've pet my dog and she is asleep. So 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.600 I have to start my day like that with And 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:04.639 right now, we're in this apartment where I have a 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.359 view of the mountains, So I sit in my team 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.200 share and look at the mountains. Sometimes. Do I look 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:14.040 at Instagram in the morning, Sure, But like I just 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:18.119 actually took Instagram off my phone again because I'm just like, 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.080 you know, I got to be in real life. You know, 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.680 I miss pre Internet. I'm nostalgic for it. I'm also 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:27.800 really into all the cool things that you can do 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.440 on it, you know, right, I love that I can, 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.520 you know, keep up with what you're doing on the internet. 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:34.440 You know, Like I don't live in the same city 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:36.520 as you, don't hang out, but I can like look 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.719 and be like, oh, what pants is he you know 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:40.840 listening to and like I can like look them up 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.439 and you know, it's cool. But it's also like you 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.439 can get really addicted to. I mean, dud, this is 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.240 the most boring conversation. You have to cut this part 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.399 out because nobody wants to hear people talking about the Internet. 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:50.320 I'm so bored of it. 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.760 No, I mean, we're two humans having a normal Some 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.399 of my best episodes are just having a conversation. I 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:02.280 was going to ask twenty three year old you, like, 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.080 if someone were to come up, all right, let's go 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:06.840 to twenty five twenty. 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.800 Six, I remember what I was doing then. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:12.439 Well, I mean just let's let's say ninety two, ninety three, 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.800 ninety four, around that period in Bikini Hill. 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:22.840 Yeah, if someone a Jacob Marley figure from the future 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:27.880 where to tell you, Hey, I'm from twenty twenty four. 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:32.880 Let me show you a ten minute scissorle reel of 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:37.679 what life is going to be like in October of 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:41.199 twenty twenty four, like way past the year two thousand, 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:45.080 like in ninety three, ninety four, nineteen ninety nine was 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:45.640 the future? 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:46.800 You know what I mean? 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:50.600 Yeah, I couldn't even imagine like two thousand and five, 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:54.919 let alone twenty twenty five. What would your reaction be 0:22:56.240 --> 0:23:00.960 if someone shows you in nineteen ninety three where we 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.680 are right now thirty years later. 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:07.239 It's the whole world, not just my life. I think 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:08.679 if I was looking at if I was sharing my 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:11.920 life in particular, I would be so happy. I would 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:14.080 be like, oh my god. First of all, I'm alive. 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.359 Second of all, the irony that your life is the 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.520 best has ever been in the most turbulent times whatsoever. 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:25.560 Yeah, and I'm finally getting like my sort of like 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:27.800 I have a feeling you at some point have made 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:29.880 a pie chart of what you do during the day 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:31.840 or what you do during the month, to be like 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:36.080 how much of my time is business stuff that I hate, 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.680 and how much of my time is creative stuff I love? 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:42.840 And how much of my time is like friendship time, 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:47.320 relationship time, dog time, like whatever your thing is. 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:52.679 I've hired a chief of staff. There's so much shame 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:55.960 in the title. When they're like, oh, you're assistant, I'm like, no, 0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:00.639 I literally hired a chief of staff because I have 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:01.840 seven managers. 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:05.200 I mean, I have a part of business, partner now 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:07.760 you know I have my bands have never had a manager. 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:10.120 We had a manager for like fifteen minutes and Latra. 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:13.520 You were the manager. I mean you did everything. 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:15.200 Kind of well, we split it up. I was I 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:17.239 don't do all the work, but my band split up 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:19.679 all of the work. And it's like, you know, we 0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:21.320 have a to do list and we each rip it 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:25.440 off into three parts, like I don't, I haven't. I 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:27.640 didn't have a manager until a year and a half ago, 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:30.760 and it's like more of a business partner. Yeah, who's 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.960 amazing and absolutely adore her, and I couldn't do I 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:35.879 couldn't be doing this stuff I'm doing right now and 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:38.040 have finished the book and done the book tour without 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:40.800 her at all. But like it took me to age 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:44.000 fifty five to set that up, Like that's how behind 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:44.760 the times I. 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:52.639 Am fifty two. We talked about boundaries and. 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:54.080 And I do feel pathetic that, like yes, even for 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:58.400 date night, for a movie night, for hangover my friends' night, 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:01.680 like everyone has to a ask amy. 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:03.080 You come to come by the studient? 0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:05.680 No no, no, no, let me ask my mommy first, which 0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:09.600 is basically asking my person show me the pie chart, 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:11.960 Like where can we fit this in, like yeah, but 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:17.840 I'm also dead serious about boundaries, and the amount of 0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:20.880 nos I've given this year is the most knows I've 0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:22.160 ever given in my life. 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:25.840 I did a year of no around ninety two when 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:28.480 Bikini Kill first started getting all of this attention, and 0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:31.399 I was like, I had this extreme guilt because I 0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:33.200 was like, you know, from this kind of taking it 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:35.800 feminist community and the whole idea is no, you know, 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:38.879 anti hierarchy, and also in the punk scene, anti hierarchy. 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:41.679 And I worked behind the scenes like long before I 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:43.640 was ever in a band, like I didn't see myself. 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:45.560 I wanted to be a singer, but I didn't really 0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:48.400 think it was possible that i'd be in a band 0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:50.440 because I just always dated people in bands. It was 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:52.879 best friends with people in bands, but it just didn't 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:56.000 seem possible. And so I was always like setting up 0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:59.080 shows and doing stuff, you know, the rape relief shelter 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.200 and doing you know, art shows and you know, running 0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:05.840 out random warehouses and putting on doing projects. And then 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:10.560 when I started doing them, it just rolled and rolled 0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:14.000 and rolled and kept going. And then all of a sudden, 0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:16.200 I was the front person and I was the lead 0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:18.840 who was in the spotlight, and that was very uncomfortable 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:19.199 for me. 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:21.520 I was going to ask, were your nose based on 0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:28.919 the fear of getting the attention and being the obviously 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:34.120 everyone was looking for a Ronald McDonald or a figurehead 0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:39.240 to peg like leader of the movement or that, and 0:26:39.280 --> 0:26:41.800 that comes with imposter syndrome and all that stuff and 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:42.760 all that. 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:44.919 Stuff, and if you like you, it's like I've had 0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:48.040 friends who got family quick and didn't have you know, 0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:51.040 the counseling and stuff, didn't have a team of therapist 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:53.360 with them and ended up you know, leaving this surf 0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:55.439 the way way way too soon. And so I had 0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:57.520 all these cautionary tales that was like, don't go down 0:26:57.520 --> 0:26:59.320 that road because you're going to die. Like I literally 0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:01.680 was like, if you get famous, you die, Like that's 0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:04.399 what I thought, or like, you know, people are always 0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:05.960 like sneaking around the corner trying to get you. And 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:07.720 I was like, I can't live that life and be 0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:11.159 in community. It also took me out of community. It 0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:13.520 made me a star, so that then I started to 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:15.639 feel unwelcome in my community because they're like, oh, you 0:27:15.680 --> 0:27:18.080 think you're so great, You're so conceited you know, I 0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:20.000 got some girl walk up to me in a grocery 0:27:20.000 --> 0:27:22.280 store and I was like on my period carrying an 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:25.440 thing on ice milk, like Neapolitan ice milk, you know, 0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:29.560 beautiful Neapolitan ice milk ons like carrying it. And I 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:32.479 had a bag of JoJo's Do you remember those from 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:36.199 the Pacific Northwest. They're like really big French fries and 0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:39.040 they're covered in like shaking bake material. You could get 0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:42.000 them at like Safeway. So I had my JoJo's, my tampons, 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.080 my Neapolitan ice cream, and I'm walking in safe way 0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:46.760 and it's about ninety two, like the time period we're 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:48.840 talking about, and some punk girl walks up to me 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:51.320 and she's like, you're ruining the punk scene. You think 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:53.840 you're so great, blah blah blah. And I'm like having 0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:58.320 cramps and I'm carrying like a pretty embarrassing assortment of items, 0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:01.919 and I'm just like, really right now, you know. And 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:03.479 so it was that kind of stuff that made me like, 0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:05.959 you know, everyone's going to throw water on your shine, 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:08.679 so throw water on your shine first. You know, like 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:10.840 someone's gonna punch you in the face, so punch yourself 0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:12.560 in the face. First, like I don't know what the 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:16.280 hell I was thinking, So I like I pulled back 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:18.280 and I was like, I'm just going to do community stuff. 0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:20.840 I was like putting on you know, benefits for harm 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:23.800 reduction and like doing all this behind the scenes stuff. 0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.160 I was answering all my mail, as I always did 0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:27.840 to these kids who are writing, and they're like, I'm 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:29.560 going to kill myself because I just came out to 0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:31.960 my family and I was rejected or you know a 0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:34.520 lot of people who had rape in and messing violence, 0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:36.560 you know, stuff going on in their lives, and like 0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:38.600 I just put my nose down and did that work, 0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:41.120 you know, And that's why I said no. So I 0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:43.080 said no for the wrong reasons. But I also ended 0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:47.280 up in this really weird predicament where because Bikini Kill 0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:50.120 got so famous so quick for like five minutes, and 0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:52.560 we got put in like all of these like feminist 0:28:52.600 --> 0:28:55.719 academics wanted to like put make classes about us and 0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:58.160 like put us in their books and stuff. I ended 0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:01.400 up being an unpaid assistant or like five different feminist 0:29:01.480 --> 0:29:05.040 professors without my knowledge. They were like from big ivy 0:29:05.080 --> 0:29:07.160 league schools and they call me and they'd be like, oh, 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:09.600 you know, I'm really trying to put together this you know, 0:29:09.640 --> 0:29:12.760 syllabus or blah blah blah, and I'm like handing. 0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:13.360 Down to research. 0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:15.320 I was doing all this research for them and stuff, 0:29:15.360 --> 0:29:17.560 thinking I'm a part of feminist community and I and 0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:20.160 then one day I was like, wait, they're getting paid 0:29:20.240 --> 0:29:22.840 and they also have an assistant or or ta who's 0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:28.440 getting paid. Why I make music? Right, I'm write, but 0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:31.200 I'm not doing that. I'm doing their job. And so 0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:33.720 I just the next day I woke up and anybody 0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:38.360 asked me for anything any favor. No, no, no, And 0:29:38.400 --> 0:29:42.040 if they weren't jerks about it, and they didn't keep 0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:45.360 I found out everybody in my life who was a 0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.880 total toxic nightmare by saying no to everybody. Yeah, and 0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:51.920 then everyone who was a toxic namare was like why 0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:54.800 why not? Why not? What? You don't care about me, 0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:56.480 you don't care about community. And I was like, yeah, 0:29:56.560 --> 0:29:59.160 you're now I'm not only not doing any favor, but 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:00.880 you're out of my life for ever and I'm never 0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:03.760 returning your calls. And then I found all the people 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:06.800 who were cool about it. A couple months later, if 0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:08.720 I was like, you know, actually that sounded like fun. 0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:10.400 I'm going to call that person up and see if 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:13.440 they still want to do something together. 0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:15.760 And so you circle. 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:17.960 But I didn't do it for the right reasons at all. 0:30:18.040 --> 0:30:19.800 I took a year off. I could have written a 0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:23.640 great record in that year, but I was really too damaged. 0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:25.600 And this was right after also, like you know, a 0:30:25.640 --> 0:30:28.320 lot of people in my life had had just passed 0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:30.560 and I was just really messed up. 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:34.920 Can I ask, Okay, so you said something in your book, 0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:38.800 So right now I'm working on two projects in which 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:42.280 and let me start off by saying that, wait, that's it. 0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:44.520 Your only work on two projects? Was wrong with you? 0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:46.080 This two? 0:30:46.160 --> 0:30:47.440 You're in a good community member. 0:30:51.280 --> 0:30:53.800 This is two of the of the eleven I'm trying 0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:57.800 to whittle down to, you know, a simple one. So 0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:01.720 there's two projects I'm doing right now. They both require. 0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:05.400 The shortest way to put it is that both of 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:10.200 them require for me to be the doctor Melfie to 0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:16.400 their tony soprano. Kind of the insane amount of trauma 0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:21.280 dumping I have to take on getting their stories. It 0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:23.720 got to the point where I, you know, had to 0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:27.560 get a second therapist. When you got to the part 0:31:27.560 --> 0:31:31.000 of the book when you're holding these meetings because you're 0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:36.120 not only producing and writing, but you're also teen rape 0:31:36.160 --> 0:31:39.960 counselor you're holding these feminist meetings to the point where 0:31:40.680 --> 0:31:43.120 even when you discover that there's trouble in Paradise in 0:31:43.200 --> 0:31:47.280 terms of white feminism, and you're putting on so many 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:50.600 caps at the same time, what was the breaking point 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:54.680 for you? And I'm only asking this because one. 0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:55.640 Of the subjects. 0:31:57.200 --> 0:31:59.680 No, no, no, Well, the thing is is that my 0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:03.000 version to know had less to do with like, I 0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:05.880 understand that there's some nos where no, we're too cool 0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:08.440 for school, we can't do that, But I also know 0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:12.800 that three years ago I had to discover boundaries. I 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:16.400 thought being self sacrificing was like, oh, that a mirror 0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:19.840 he's he always works so hard. I got tired of 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:24.520 being that person, you know, the self sacrificing person, never 0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:27.960 thinking of myself. Now, in one of these particular projects, 0:32:28.920 --> 0:32:33.200 the subject is similar to our story in terms of 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:38.600 like leading a movement and sacrificing and sacrificing and sacrificing 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:44.360 and what winds up happening is at the root of 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:51.000 this particular person's story sort of lies an undealt with 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:58.360 trauma with his parents, and this person kind of has 0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:02.000 a medical issue with their own life. And I'm always 0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:06.720 a believer that behind every medical issue is an emotional 0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:12.720 component that's not thought out or or dealt with. Could 0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:16.719 you talk about and you know, you're very open about 0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:23.800 the relationship with your father in the beginning years, And 0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:29.280 obviously I felt that your need to save people is 0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.960 you seeing yourself in you know, you want to save 0:33:33.040 --> 0:33:35.520 the version of you that wasn't didn't have a protector, 0:33:35.640 --> 0:33:37.840 didn't have someone to advocate for them. 0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:40.760 Yes, but at what point did you. 0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:43.760 Realize Now, the fact that you allowed love in your 0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:49.080 life via Adam was amazing because it took me five 0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:53.200 decades to get to that place. But at what point 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:58.840 did self care become truly important to you? And that 0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:01.520 you had to what everything else is side? As far 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:05.360 as like juggling twelve plates at the same time, you know, 0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:12.040 leading a movement, flyers meetings, teachers is unpaid teachers assistant. 0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:14.799 Yeah, what was that breaking point? Like for you? 0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:19.360 I can tell you the exact moment, Okay, Like it's 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:21.279 it's so funny because while you're talking, I'm like, oh, yeah, 0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:23.920 I know the exact moment I was doing some work 0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:31.000 for a political organization around uh Freemuma Abujamal and I 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:35.880 was working to help put on a concert and I 0:34:35.920 --> 0:34:37.800 got very, very sick. And this is when I was 0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:39.919 still living in Olympia and I was in Bikini Hill, 0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:44.320 so it was still nineties and I had a temperature 0:34:44.320 --> 0:34:46.279 that was like over one hundred and three and I 0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:50.719 really I ended up being hospitalized. And I had a 0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:53.840 like a you know, just a mattress on the floor. 0:34:53.960 --> 0:34:56.440 Like I don't know what it was that like I 0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:59.919 thought to be like I thought people who had matt 0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:05.279 tress frames were. I was like why, you know, like 0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:06.920 when I look back on how many times I just 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:08.440 like threw a mattress on the floor and like that 0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:09.840 was it? You know? I mean I was really I 0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.000 was that busy that I was like, you know the 0:35:12.040 --> 0:35:14.600 guy who just like any T shirt that's laying on 0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:18.000 the floor, I just like throw it on, right. Yeah. No, 0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:20.440 I mean there were times in my vand where one 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:22.160 of us would shoke with lipstick on and be like, 0:35:22.160 --> 0:35:24.080 how did you have time to put that on? Because 0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:26.200 we were so busy. It was like, you know, you 0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:28.160 would sleep and then wake up and then start working 0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:32.840 in but I was laying on my mattress in my 0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:35.719 apartment and I had to crawl the bathroom because I 0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:38.960 was that sick. And my phone kept bringing and kept 0:35:39.000 --> 0:35:41.360 bring and kept bringing, and I had an answering machine 0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:45.320 at the time with the mini tape, and this woman 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:47.399 from the political organization was like, you need to call 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:48.680 me back. We need to get the sun, we need 0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:50.279 to get the stune. And I had already picked up 0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:52.160 and said, I have one hundred and three y tent 0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:56.600 and I'm really really sick, and she kept calling and 0:35:56.640 --> 0:36:00.480 calling and she was like, she screamed, I picked it up, 0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:05.080 and I was like, dude, I'm like really sick, Like 0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:09.360 I'm crawling to the bathroom and she's like, then, crawl 0:36:09.400 --> 0:36:11.440 to the fucking fact is I had a fax machine. 0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:14.840 Crawl to the fucking fax machine and facts. Eddie Vedder 0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:20.000 and Zach de Larocha was like, and you know what 0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:21.200 I did it. 0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:23.279 I crawled to the fax. 0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:25.520 Machine and not only did I fax them, I drew 0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:29.200 cute drawings on the facts. You know what I mean? 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:32.000 Like when you're doing something like as you're crawling and 0:36:32.000 --> 0:36:34.560 then you're getting out the sharpie and you're drawing the 0:36:34.600 --> 0:36:37.680 cute dog picture so that zach de l Rocha notices 0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:42.279 your facts. I'm like, this is you know. And then 0:36:42.320 --> 0:36:44.439 my mom ended up driving from Portland to come get 0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:48.040 me and taking me to the hospital and I was 0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:50.160 really really sick and I was hospitalized and it was 0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:52.239 a bad situation. And the other time it happened was 0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:54.879 when I've had a long term illness which I since 0:36:54.920 --> 0:36:59.240 recovered from, and that was like I was so driving 0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:01.640 at a thousand miles per hour with a break on 0:37:01.760 --> 0:37:04.000 in my life that my body was. 0:37:03.960 --> 0:37:06.200 Like gave out. 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:10.680 My body was like my drenals were shot, everything was shot. 0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:15.440 I was having like seizures, like it was like really 0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:19.200 bad and when you're like kind of staring at death 0:37:19.280 --> 0:37:20.759 because it was at that point where it was like 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:23.680 we didn't know what I had and I was really sick. Yes, 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:29.040 I actually do have a verifiable by tests illness. I 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.200 don't think it would have gotten as out. 0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:36.439 Of control as it did if I hadn't suppressed all 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:41.839 of this trauma because my trauma body, you know, And 0:37:41.880 --> 0:37:43.400 I do have a theory and people will. 0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:45.359 Probably get mad about it or whatever, but about auto 0:37:45.360 --> 0:37:48.760 because it's autoimmunal oneness. It's like, I don't think people 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:51.200 make up autoimmune oneness is. I don't think they're fake. 0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:53.160 I don't think they're in your head. But for me, 0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:58.200 my autoimmune oness was definitely made way worse by the 0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:02.600 fact that I completely ignored my body. But I lived 0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:04.960 in a state of hyper arousal from the time that 0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:06.520 I was a kid, Like I would look at my 0:38:06.760 --> 0:38:09.960 how my dad came into the house and be like, 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:11.200 what's going to happen tonight. 0:38:11.120 --> 0:38:14.799 And adjust to yourself to the dude, and the. 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:17.720 Same thing, you know, when when as a feminist musician, 0:38:17.760 --> 0:38:20.680 who would walk into a venue and have to deal 0:38:20.719 --> 0:38:23.840 with all these men and not have our own sound person, 0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:26.160 not have a tour manager, we had no one. We 0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:29.560 would have one roadie if that. So I would have 0:38:29.640 --> 0:38:31.839 to kind of, you know, select the d of all 0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:35.520 of these dudes emotionally or psychologically to get them to 0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:38.080 turn my sound up, you know, And it was kind 0:38:38.160 --> 0:38:39.759 And then I'd have an audience full of men who 0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:42.239 were like yelling, you man, hating bitch, you know, shut 0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:44.200 the fuck up, like whatever, and I'm like, I'm just 0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:45.719 I just want to be in a band. I just 0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:47.280 want to be in a band. I really love music. 0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:49.759 I just want to play music, and so dealing with 0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:53.280 that also made me walk into situations and be hyper aroused. 0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:55.600 Every time I would play a show, I'm looking for 0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:57.680 who has a glass or a bottle in their hand 0:38:57.719 --> 0:39:00.279 that they're going to throw at me, or chain or 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:04.480 even a Setiger wineglass. You know, I had a wine 0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:06.040 glasser in at me and I was like, I could 0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:10.040 see it coming, but I'm really I hope somebody taped it, 0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:12.400 because do you know that really famous moment in that 0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:16.040 Bad Brains video where hr goes like that, it was 0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:19.400 like that, Yes, it was like that I did that, 0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:21.600 And I'm like, did anybody get that on camera? Because 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:24.120 I really want to like put it next to HRS clip. 0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:27.920 But yeah, I was like in this total state of 0:39:28.000 --> 0:39:30.319 hyper arousal. And I really do feel like in a 0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:32.680 way because what my body does is if I get 0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:35.480 any kind of infection or sick, it goes to crazy, 0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:39.279 out of control fever, right, And it's almost like my 0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:41.840 body's in a state of hyper arousal. So it's like 0:39:42.440 --> 0:39:44.719 my body sees some cells in my body making a 0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:47.560 weird face and start my body starts freaking. 0:39:47.200 --> 0:39:50.560 Out and you're in a constant state of fight or flight. 0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:52.520 Yeah, And I mean, like I had to do nine 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:55.319 months of IV therapy. This is actually real illness. And 0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:59.279 it's like I have quantifiable proof that I have it, 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:01.200 so it's it's not all in my head. But there's 0:40:01.200 --> 0:40:04.520 a mind body connection. Who knew, you know, I've been 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:09.000 living above my head for so long, you know, to 0:40:09.120 --> 0:40:12.600 avoid the trauma that is like residual, like leftover room 0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:14.200 and body. And something I have to say to you, 0:40:14.480 --> 0:40:16.920 my friend, because while you were talking, I thought of this. 0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:18.719 And I don't mean to psychoanalyze you, but I'm going 0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:20.719 to do it fucking anyway, because anybody who said that 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:24.279 everyone do psychoanalyze you is about to psychoanalyze you. I 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:27.000 think it's really interesting the when we started talking, you 0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:28.600 talked about your girlfriend, saying when are you going to 0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:33.280 write the real book and be vulnerable about your own life? 0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:36.839 And then you've gotten involved with these two projects where 0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:40.960 especially this one you're talking about, where someone has suppressed 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:44.160 something that they need to deal with and they're trauma 0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:48.000 dumping on you and and and I know that they're 0:40:48.040 --> 0:40:50.920 probably a super amazing person, and it's not You're not 0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:53.719 saying that with anger or anything. It's like they're they're 0:40:53.719 --> 0:40:54.680 actually telling their lives. 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:56.879 Oh no, the people I love. 0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:01.040 Yeah, But like I think that that's really interesting and 0:41:01.480 --> 0:41:04.759 that it's something I relate to because you know, I 0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:09.000 wasn't getting help for the abuse that I'd suffered in 0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:12.160 my life, and it kind of went from my house 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:14.880 to then you know, being raped in high school and 0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:16.919 you know, date rape. I mean, I don't know who 0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:19.520 wasn't date raped at some point in their lives, but 0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:23.520 you know, it's not a unique story. But it's like 0:41:23.719 --> 0:41:25.560 all of these different things happen. And then I have 0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:29.640 this job where I'm constantly sexually harassed and there's no HR. 0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:31.640 There's no HR in punk rock. Who am I going 0:41:31.719 --> 0:41:34.040 to call? You know what I mean? Like HR puff 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:35.640 and stuff like who's going to help me? No one's 0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:38.120 going to help me? And so it's like I'm in 0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:40.560 a different work environment every day that's abusive, and I 0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:43.480 can't just be like, hey, can you move Bill's desk 0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:46.560 away from me? Because he keeps saying if I don't 0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:49.279 tell him if I'm married or single, he won't give 0:41:49.320 --> 0:41:51.440 me the report, which is what was happening to me 0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:54.120 where I had monitor. Guys wouldn't plug in my monitor 0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:57.480 unless I told them what my status was in terms 0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:01.640 of a man and yeah, and I'm like, why why 0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:02.960 does that? What does it have to do with my 0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:05.600 monitor situation? So I started bringing my own monitor and 0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:08.239 plugging it in myself. And these are extra things that 0:42:08.280 --> 0:42:12.160 people have to do who get treated poorly. And you 0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:13.879 know the other thing, though, I have to look back 0:42:13.920 --> 0:42:16.840 and be like, because of the particular time period and 0:42:16.880 --> 0:42:19.000 place I grew up in with the nineties kind of 0:42:19.040 --> 0:42:22.120 pure punk purist aesthetic, which I now am very critical 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:24.680 of because I think a lot of it is very 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:28.799 classist and it's very like upper white, middle class, like 0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:32.799 holier than now. And there's a lot of play. Yeah, 0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:35.920 there's definitely a lot of cosplaying for and there's definitely like, 0:42:36.000 --> 0:42:39.759 you know, the Trustafarians at my school, Like there's just a. 0:42:39.719 --> 0:42:41.680 Lot of Trustians. 0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:49.200 Yeah, that's an amazing Oh god, Yeah, I've never heard Okay. 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:52.040 But you know what I'm talking about. The white guy 0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:56.560 with redlocks on the subway. I don't who's singing Marley songs. 0:42:56.760 --> 0:43:01.719 There's a schedule on SNL called ros that Andy Samberg 0:43:01.800 --> 0:43:04.120 did about Rastafarian. 0:43:04.640 --> 0:43:06.560 Yeah, I know many of those cats. 0:43:06.640 --> 0:43:14.600 I know many of those cats. So something happened that 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:19.840 you're probably not even aware. It's ninety five, so and 0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:24.080 it's so weird at how our stories are intertwined. You know, 0:43:24.120 --> 0:43:32.040 we signed to DGC Geffen in ninety three, and this 0:43:32.239 --> 0:43:35.680 was like kind of the height and the madness of 0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:41.000 billions and billions and billions of dollars raked in from 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:47.200 you know, post Guns n' Roses, residual post Aerosmith residual monies, 0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:51.680 and of course never Mind was just you know, that 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:56.320 was the cherry on top. And what winds up happening 0:43:56.400 --> 0:44:04.680 is so Geffen doesn't have a black department, a black 0:44:04.800 --> 0:44:11.920 music division, and in the craziest kind of eleventh hour, 0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:15.520 one second left in the game, Hail Mary. 0:44:15.320 --> 0:44:19.359 Throw, I know this story, right, they. 0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:25.319 Offer this amount of money. Yeah, they offered this deal. 0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:28.000 But the most attractive part of this deal was the 0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:32.239 security part of it. And the security part was if 0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:35.560 we made one album, we would have to make the 0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:37.920 second and third album. If we made the fourth album, 0:44:39.200 --> 0:44:40.960 we'd have to make the fourth and the fifth album. 0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:42.160 Like we couldn't get dropped. 0:44:42.160 --> 0:44:45.479 Most most like rap groups have to prove out the Gate, 0:44:46.120 --> 0:44:48.239 you must have a hit single or else that's it. 0:44:49.640 --> 0:44:52.040 And so that's what attracted us. 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:56.680 Between the period of December and April of ninety four, 0:44:57.400 --> 0:45:02.680 you know, we make this record, and you know, as 0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:06.440 we're talking to the guys that Geffen, you're Eddie Rosenblatz, 0:45:06.440 --> 0:45:08.839 you're Windy gold Scenes like the people that were our 0:45:08.880 --> 0:45:12.600 staff members, it became obvious that, you know, Guns n' 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:16.279 Roses is not making a follow up record. So called 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:19.839 Chinese Democracy is going to come any month. Now, Aerosmith 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:25.200 leaves to go back to Sony and then April comes, 0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:30.920 and when Kirk leaves us, that's a panic signal to 0:45:31.040 --> 0:45:35.960 my manager, who says, I think the honeymoon's over and 0:45:36.239 --> 0:45:39.120 we have to make something happen. So this something straight 0:45:39.120 --> 0:45:42.279 out of a movie. We like, think of the chase 0:45:42.320 --> 0:45:47.160 scene and rest of our dogs. We basically kind of 0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:50.880 stole our budget money out of the bank. So we 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:55.160 wind up moving in a panic move because we sense 0:45:55.280 --> 0:46:00.600 that their excitement of starting a black music department is 0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:04.440 going to drown out because three of their marquee artists 0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:07.520 are no longer in existence, and so. 0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:13.120 We moved to London and we fish out of water. 0:46:13.480 --> 0:46:16.320 We live in. We get a flat in London. 0:46:17.520 --> 0:46:21.000 And we work out the gym, and it takes about 0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:24.400 a good year and a half before Geffen kind of 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:26.000 in a move that's sort of like they lost. 0:46:25.760 --> 0:46:29.239 Their keys, Like wait, what some Swiss hey? 0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:31.680 You know, Like literally it's like a year and a 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:34.480 half later before they realized like, we're the fuck. 0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:34.960 Of the roots. 0:46:35.400 --> 0:46:37.360 They're in London right. 0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:41.640 And literally right before panic Hits were like, ah, look 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:43.200 at all the press we got, like we did this. 0:46:43.160 --> 0:46:48.840 All on our own, and they were like, oh, you 0:46:48.880 --> 0:46:49.640 guys did all this. 0:46:50.040 --> 0:46:52.120 It's like, yeah, we got our own agent, and we 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:53.759 got our own tour bus, and we got our own 0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:56.480 apartment and we just and that's all. We were like 0:46:56.560 --> 0:46:58.640 the black hip hop version of the Commitments. I don't 0:46:58.640 --> 0:46:59.600 know if you remember that movie. 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:03.759 Were you were you working out the material for the 0:47:03.800 --> 0:47:06.920 album live before you recorded it, or were you doing 0:47:06.960 --> 0:47:07.799 it simultaneously. 0:47:07.840 --> 0:47:10.320 I mean, because we started off busking on the streets, 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:11.879 we kind of knew the songs that were gonna wind 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:14.839 up on the album, but we made the album. Uh. 0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:20.759 Literally the day that Kirk Loder reported the news of 0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:25.359 Kirk's death, my manager was like, yo, we got three 0:47:25.440 --> 0:47:28.720 days we're gonna in about three to five days. 0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:31.320 We made three videos. 0:47:31.000 --> 0:47:36.040 Shot the album cover, knocked out nine songs, like finished 0:47:36.040 --> 0:47:37.520 the record. We didn't want to get dropped from the 0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:40.840 label because like, we bet the farm on this moment, 0:47:41.680 --> 0:47:44.719 and they were impressed enough, and sure enough, as he predicted, 0:47:44.719 --> 0:47:46.640 they dropped the other eighteen acts. 0:47:46.640 --> 0:47:48.959 But they were like, well, the Roots already completed their record, 0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:52.320 so keep them. So wow. 0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:57.680 So you know, we we worked out in Europe for 0:47:57.760 --> 0:48:00.720 an entire year and they're like, okay, guys, you're eventually 0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:02.040 going to have to come back home. And it's like 0:48:02.120 --> 0:48:06.640 ninety five and we're going to do our first dates 0:48:06.640 --> 0:48:10.120 in the States. Start off in La go to San Francisco, 0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:14.840 work our way to Portland and fourth stop in Seattle 0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:20.480 and then Vancouver and after our Seattle show, like you know, 0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:26.680 in every band's history or their folklore, there's that one 0:48:27.040 --> 0:48:32.000 like crazy person that they meet, like their version of 0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:39.040 Large March from Pewee Herman, like someone just shifting. My 0:48:39.120 --> 0:48:41.239 manager gets on the bus the day that we leave 0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:44.880 for Vancouver is like, yo, man, I met the most 0:48:45.320 --> 0:48:49.239 craziest interesting and he goes. 0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:51.800 On and on and knowing and knowing about. 0:48:50.840 --> 0:48:53.319 He saw someone at that after you know, like we 0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:56.759 would do a show and then you know, we had 0:48:56.800 --> 0:49:02.000 critical buzz, so people are there to see and he 0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:05.000 gets invited to an after party where the other Seattle 0:49:05.080 --> 0:49:09.240 Luminaries are. He talks to you for about two hours 0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:11.000 and you tell him the whole story of what and 0:49:11.040 --> 0:49:16.160 this is ninety five, so everything that you've organized and whatever, 0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:22.799 and he was like whatever you told him. He's like, Yo, 0:49:23.440 --> 0:49:26.520 there needs to be a feminist movement. And I was like, huh, 0:49:26.560 --> 0:49:28.600 we're trying to get on MTV, Like why do we 0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:30.719 have to start a movie. He's like no, man, it's 0:49:30.800 --> 0:49:32.880 like you got to come out think outside the box. 0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:35.839 Like and I was like, what we're rap group? Like 0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:41.520 there's no women in our Like I could not fathom, Like, okay, 0:49:41.560 --> 0:49:45.719 so we're going to be a feminist band now, like 0:49:45.840 --> 0:49:48.279 how does that work in hip hop? Like even I 0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:51.200 was drinking the kool aid of what kind of what 0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:53.120 hip hop was supposed to be and all that stuff, 0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:57.120 and you know, I'm thinking of self preservation. And he 0:49:57.320 --> 0:50:02.319 never lost that legal pad, like he wrote like a 0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:10.120 maniac everything you said. And sure enough, starting in ninety seven, 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:13.480 the second time I had an interaction with you, the 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:16.680 two commonalities of it. The thing that impressed him the 0:50:16.760 --> 0:50:22.959 most was that you had a plan, you executed the plan, 0:50:23.840 --> 0:50:28.040 and at both events you famously. 0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:29.200 Cussed out a. 0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:34.160 Figurehead rival of yours that we won't mention her name, 0:50:35.640 --> 0:50:38.080 you know, at both events. The first night he met 0:50:38.160 --> 0:50:41.319 you and then the second time I met you was 0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:45.080 our last day would tourn with the Beastie Boys and 0:50:45.120 --> 0:50:50.800 it's this outdoor. Yes, it wasn't bumpershoed, it wasn't the Gorge. 0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:55.680 It was basically the Beastie Boys, bad brains, the roots 0:50:55.880 --> 0:50:57.399 far side. 0:50:57.600 --> 0:51:01.080 Yeah, that was the night when I I didn't cuss out, 0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:04.279 but I basically, yeah, told them what Ricky Powell was 0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:05.240 doing behind their backs. 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:10.240 Yo, when when I got to that from their lives 0:51:10.960 --> 0:51:13.360 and I saw you independent of and Rich was like, 0:51:13.480 --> 0:51:15.320 you remember what you remember from Seattle? 0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:17.880 On the phone? Rich and I used to talk on 0:51:17.920 --> 0:51:21.760 the phone. We were like phone friends. I don't remember 0:51:21.760 --> 0:51:23.839 the I don't remember the legal power or the first 0:51:23.840 --> 0:51:25.359 time we met or anything. I just remember that. 0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:27.359 We were because he would hang up and literally. 0:51:27.080 --> 0:51:28.840 Just I really know if he liked me like I 0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:30.880 thought he might like me. But it was like around 0:51:30.880 --> 0:51:33.080 the time when I was meeting Adam. I know he 0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:35.000 didn't like me, but I was kind of like, does 0:51:35.040 --> 0:51:38.400 he like me? Like because and then I was like, 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:40.600 oh no, this is just a friendship, so sorry for 0:51:40.640 --> 0:51:42.600 your loss. But he was. He was great, and we 0:51:42.640 --> 0:51:45.120 had such amazing phone conversations and. 0:51:45.040 --> 0:51:47.320 It just like you gave us a blueprint. And so 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:48.799 when we started just. 0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:50.400 Telling him record stores in Portland, I was like, I 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:51.880 hope they went to that one record store. 0:51:53.760 --> 0:51:56.840 Oh well, you know, I'm I'm a constant record shopper, 0:51:56.840 --> 0:51:58.960 so I'm almost certain that I went to everywhere in 0:51:59.000 --> 0:52:02.879 Portland like Portland's I was my all time favorite place 0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:07.800 on Earth pre pandemic it was. But yeah, I'll say 0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:14.960 that talking us into being accessible, being community based, having 0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:18.320 jam sessions. At first it was the roots Jam session, 0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:23.799 and sure enough, you know, whenever the ladies in our 0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:25.640 circle wanted to get on the mic, it was like 0:52:25.680 --> 0:52:27.760 they would complaining that, you know, you guys are hogging 0:52:27.840 --> 0:52:31.719 up everything and we don't have our like where's our agency? 0:52:31.880 --> 0:52:34.840 And then we morphed it into what we now know 0:52:34.960 --> 0:52:38.160 is Black Lily, which of course was kind of the 0:52:38.200 --> 0:52:41.520 impetus of the spark that Finally, by our fourth album 0:52:41.600 --> 0:52:45.239 had caught on and started a movement. But you know, 0:52:45.600 --> 0:52:50.800 I never ever got to like thank you for kind. 0:52:55.400 --> 0:52:58.040 Yeah, I was like, I didn't even think you knew 0:52:58.040 --> 0:53:00.440 who I was. I was like, can I get on quest? 0:53:00.480 --> 0:53:01.920 I was like, I don't I feel like. I mean, 0:53:01.960 --> 0:53:03.640 we've run into each other, like he came to my 0:53:03.719 --> 0:53:05.840 movie thing, Like I think he's aware of me. But 0:53:05.920 --> 0:53:07.680 you just know so many people that I was like, 0:53:08.000 --> 0:53:10.359 we have friends in common. I was like, maybe if 0:53:10.400 --> 0:53:13.399 you say I'm married toad Rock. I was like, but yeah, 0:53:13.440 --> 0:53:14.840 the fact that you that you're. 0:53:14.680 --> 0:53:17.279 Aware even when I saw and you add together, like 0:53:17.320 --> 0:53:19.439 the various times I've run into you guys, I didn't 0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:21.719 want to freak you out because I was like, yo, dog, 0:53:21.840 --> 0:53:22.600 she doesn't even know. 0:53:23.640 --> 0:53:25.759 And sometimes I don't know these things, Like people will 0:53:25.760 --> 0:53:26.879 tell me things. 0:53:26.600 --> 0:53:30.160 Like you don't even realize that the time you blah 0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:33.759 blah blah blah blah backed in ninety eight, Like now 0:53:33.840 --> 0:53:35.799 that's the part of long life that I'm getting. Where 0:53:36.480 --> 0:53:40.279 people from this college that apparently I did something for 0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:43.680 that you know, you gave me. There was one person 0:53:43.719 --> 0:53:47.000 that said, uh, I guess i'd for senior paper I 0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:50.160 talked to him for three hours and that wound up 0:53:50.840 --> 0:53:52.839 not only getting him an A, but that got him 0:53:52.880 --> 0:53:56.759 like hired at Lucasfilm like stuff that you're you're not 0:53:56.840 --> 0:53:59.920 aware of the residual effect. So I wanted to say 0:54:00.040 --> 0:54:02.560 this platform, No, I was highly aware of who you 0:54:02.600 --> 0:54:08.120 were and follows you throughout the the years, like literally 0:54:08.239 --> 0:54:11.560 you're you're the first. And I don't mean character in 0:54:11.719 --> 0:54:16.279 a reductive way, but you know, when we're arriving in 0:54:16.360 --> 0:54:21.879 Seattle after living in Europe and a John tirolta boy 0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:25.759 in a plastic bubble way like like I didn't meet 0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:29.080 a Wu Tang member until nineteen ninety nine. Like we 0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:31.920 were just we were very much hip hop, but we 0:54:31.920 --> 0:54:35.960 were just separated from what was happening between ninety three 0:54:35.960 --> 0:54:38.319 and ninety nine because we were living in Europe and 0:54:39.200 --> 0:54:41.840 on other tours that weren't hip hop related. And so 0:54:42.960 --> 0:54:47.840 finally using your your blueprint in terms of organizing a 0:54:47.960 --> 0:54:51.600 movement was how we finally like broke through to the 0:54:51.680 --> 0:54:55.920 other side. So you can add that feather to you, cap. 0:54:57.600 --> 0:55:00.520 I hope it didn't cause the problems that it for me, 0:55:00.640 --> 0:55:05.400 because I definitely took on too much, you know, and 0:55:05.520 --> 0:55:07.600 I've never listened to critics, Like I know you're somebody 0:55:07.640 --> 0:55:09.840 who like follows what critics say, and like you know, 0:55:09.880 --> 0:55:13.600 album and sales, and like, I feel really lucky that 0:55:13.600 --> 0:55:17.120 that was just never I came at music making as 0:55:17.160 --> 0:55:19.840 an art practice, like from my other art forms, so 0:55:20.760 --> 0:55:24.560 I had this real thing of like not protecting my creativity. 0:55:24.560 --> 0:55:26.520 But I feel very lucky. Like with one of the 0:55:26.560 --> 0:55:28.480 first questions you asked was like, you know, how did 0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:30.120 you write this book, and like what about the people 0:55:30.160 --> 0:55:31.959 in it? And like how are people? Were you worried 0:55:31.960 --> 0:55:33.719 how people are going to react? And it's like I 0:55:33.760 --> 0:55:36.120 didn't think about it, and like I tried. There's definitely 0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:38.200 been one album that I made that I was thinking 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:41.920 about that and it was not good. And almost everything 0:55:41.920 --> 0:55:44.120 else I've just been like I'm just making the thing 0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:46.520 I want to make, Like I'm eitherre's something that I 0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:48.600 want to hear or there's something I want to read 0:55:48.640 --> 0:55:50.400 that isn't being written, And You're right, a lot of 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:52.879 it ended up being I was writing to me when 0:55:52.880 --> 0:55:55.719 I was fifteen, as if I was the adult who 0:55:55.760 --> 0:55:58.360 was saying the things that I needed to hear, or 0:55:58.840 --> 0:56:01.480 I was saying the things that I needed to hear 0:56:01.800 --> 0:56:04.239 that would validate that I wasn't insane, you know what 0:56:04.280 --> 0:56:06.279 I mean that, like, actually the world's crazy and you're 0:56:06.360 --> 0:56:10.000 kind of okay. But it's really funny when your music 0:56:10.040 --> 0:56:12.319 catches up with your life, you know, and then you're 0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:15.320 actually writing about what's happening now and you're not still 0:56:15.800 --> 0:56:17.920 writing about you know, past stuff that you don't even 0:56:17.960 --> 0:56:20.360 know you're writing about. Until for me, you know, my 0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:24.040 band didn't play shows both my buns for like twenty years, 0:56:24.080 --> 0:56:26.640 and then we got back together, and all of a sudden, 0:56:26.680 --> 0:56:29.920 I was like, I am the person that I wrote 0:56:30.120 --> 0:56:33.120 about wanting to be in this song right now, And 0:56:33.400 --> 0:56:35.360 I've realized what all these songs were actually about, and 0:56:35.360 --> 0:56:38.560 that they were about totally different things that I were about. 0:56:38.680 --> 0:56:41.440 You know, like before I ever came out of being 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:45.080 having been been raped by a friend of mine while 0:56:45.080 --> 0:56:46.879 I was in Bikini Kill, and everybody thought I was. 0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:49.320 Like a strong, tough feminist and you know, I'm always 0:56:49.400 --> 0:56:51.160 like you know, yeapin and blah blah blah, and you 0:56:51.200 --> 0:56:53.880 cut some people out like whatever, But I also was 0:56:53.880 --> 0:56:56.600 actually assaulted by a close friend of mine during that time, 0:56:56.760 --> 0:56:58.200 like right before I went on. 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:01.480 A really big tour, and the day before I went 0:57:01.520 --> 0:57:04.360 on tour, and what did I do? I played the shows, 0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:07.480 And I'm glad I did because I got to throw 0:57:07.520 --> 0:57:09.799 my whole body and my whole life story into every 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:13.960 single night, and so I think that kept me alive. Honestly, 0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:20.440 it wasn't always me using it as a distraction, because 0:57:20.520 --> 0:57:22.600 everything else is a distraction in my life. But when 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:26.440 I'm on stage, that's the main time that I'm a 0:57:26.480 --> 0:57:30.520 real person and that I am who I most really honestly, 0:57:31.520 --> 0:57:35.200 and I'm fully present and I'll bank like every other 0:57:35.240 --> 0:57:37.400 hour of my life just for that hour and a 0:57:37.400 --> 0:57:39.800 half or two hour time period, because to me, live 0:57:39.840 --> 0:57:43.640 performance is the main thing that I crave as a person. 0:57:45.160 --> 0:57:48.520 So yeah, I was going through that kind of stuff, 0:57:48.520 --> 0:57:50.320 and like nobody knew about it, and I feel like 0:57:50.320 --> 0:57:53.080 I couldn't tell people because I didn't want the riot 0:57:53.080 --> 0:57:56.400 Gral people to come after him, because that just wasn't 0:57:56.480 --> 0:57:59.560 the story that I wanted. Like retribution for me holds 0:57:59.600 --> 0:58:01.600 no entry, and it's just taking me off with the 0:58:01.640 --> 0:58:04.040 path of what I want to make and I wasn't 0:58:04.080 --> 0:58:05.680 ready to deal with it, and so I just shut 0:58:05.760 --> 0:58:07.560 it off from my brain and I moved along and 0:58:07.600 --> 0:58:09.040 I was like, you know what, my mission is more 0:58:09.080 --> 0:58:13.120 important than this person. But eventually it came back to 0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:15.840 bite me in the ass and I and it came 0:58:15.880 --> 0:58:17.720 to the fore and I had to deal with it 0:58:17.760 --> 0:58:20.840 and I had to process it. And you know, through 0:58:22.040 --> 0:58:24.240 doing that, that was when I finally fell in love 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:28.120 with that. That's when I got my cat, David Sue Recipes. 0:58:28.520 --> 0:58:29.680 That's when I finally started. 0:58:29.720 --> 0:58:32.400 I bought a couch, Like I have never heard a 0:58:32.440 --> 0:58:34.800 cat a mattress, you know what I mean. 0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:36.920 Like I had not only a mattress, but I had 0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:37.720 a couch too. 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:41.960 Yeah, you're adulting. I have two questions to ask, okay. 0:58:42.120 --> 0:58:46.400 So one, you know, thank you for your your your 0:58:46.440 --> 0:58:52.960 honesty and sharing those stories in your book about your assault. 0:58:53.360 --> 0:58:57.160 Knowing what you know now and especially what's been happening 0:58:58.040 --> 0:59:00.960 in the last five years, is a part of you 0:59:02.040 --> 0:59:07.040 wishing that well, First of all, if you go back 0:59:07.320 --> 0:59:09.960 in time. Number one is hope that you never have 0:59:10.040 --> 0:59:11.000 to experience that ever. 0:59:11.520 --> 0:59:12.400 Oh yeah, for sure. 0:59:13.120 --> 0:59:17.200 But in terms of the one particular story that you 0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:21.720 shared about, you know, having a conversation of vulnerability and 0:59:21.840 --> 0:59:23.760 you guys just sitting lying in the bed next to 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:28.200 each other and talking, and that was the person that 0:59:28.240 --> 0:59:31.840 you trusted, and suddenly it just went. 0:59:31.720 --> 0:59:33.200 One to eighty the other way. 0:59:33.640 --> 0:59:37.880 And you know, as I'm reading this, I'm like, oh God, okay, 0:59:38.280 --> 0:59:39.520 is the rage going to happen? 0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:40.360 Here is it? 0:59:41.320 --> 0:59:43.760 And I understand letting him go, and I understand the 0:59:44.160 --> 0:59:47.720 entire ordeal of reliving that trauma through the legal system, 0:59:47.760 --> 0:59:49.920 and all that stuff was just whatever. 0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:53.640 I mean, I forgot it the second I left. 0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:59.040 Right the way that you painted it, I was like, oh, okay, 0:59:59.200 --> 1:00:01.040 she It was almost like a struggle. 1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:03.680 Oh no, big deal. Okay, well goodbye, see you later. 1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:06.800 Are you fine with the process of how you put 1:00:06.800 --> 1:00:08.000 that in your past? 1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:08.880 Oh? 1:00:08.960 --> 1:00:13.640 Yeah. I mean I'm mad that he hasn't had to 1:00:13.640 --> 1:00:18.720 pay for my therapy because it keeps coming up. And 1:00:18.760 --> 1:00:21.880 I'm like, Jesus Christ, when will this person go away? 1:00:22.120 --> 1:00:24.040 You know what I mean. It's not the person, it's 1:00:24.120 --> 1:00:26.120 like the abuse of trust. And you know, I was 1:00:26.160 --> 1:00:28.520 also at a place in my life where like I 1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:31.440 needed to find a good man. I needed to find 1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:35.960 a man in my life who was a feminist and 1:00:36.040 --> 1:00:38.360 who read books about it and cared about it. To 1:00:38.520 --> 1:00:41.840 prove to me, I've been so disappointed by so many 1:00:41.840 --> 1:00:44.160 men in my life who i'd gotten close to. Like 1:00:44.240 --> 1:00:46.640 I had for a lot of my life a lot 1:00:46.680 --> 1:00:48.480 of guy friends, and I hung out with guys, and 1:00:48.560 --> 1:00:49.960 I was like the kind of person who was like, 1:00:50.280 --> 1:00:54.280 let's go, you know, break bottles down by the railroad track. Yeah, well, 1:00:54.320 --> 1:00:56.440 let's go. Yeah, let's go break into the you know, 1:00:56.880 --> 1:01:01.120 the old prison and you know, smoke pot like stuff 1:01:01.160 --> 1:01:03.120 like that. And so I have these guy friends and 1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:05.120 like the second I wouldn't have a boyfriend, they'd be like, okay, 1:01:05.160 --> 1:01:06.880 let's have sex, and I'd be like, I don't like 1:01:06.960 --> 1:01:10.040 you like that. And then it'd be like, you know, 1:01:10.200 --> 1:01:13.560 either stock er behavior, they're really mad, they're ego is bruises, 1:01:13.560 --> 1:01:16.120 this whole thing, and I was like, god, this is 1:01:16.160 --> 1:01:18.400 so awful. And so I thought I finally thought I 1:01:18.480 --> 1:01:21.600 met this guy who was you know, he's so smart 1:01:21.760 --> 1:01:24.080 and we're like, you know, Briny Angela Davis books together 1:01:24.200 --> 1:01:26.360 and like talking about it and I'm like, this guy's 1:01:26.400 --> 1:01:29.880 so cool. And then he hands up sexually as salting me. 1:01:30.640 --> 1:01:33.840 And I was like the fact that I could ever 1:01:33.920 --> 1:01:36.560 trust anybody again in my life, but you know, is 1:01:37.000 --> 1:01:39.920 kind of like I feel like I'm a walking miracle. 1:01:40.440 --> 1:01:44.080 So well, part two of my question is how did 1:01:44.080 --> 1:01:48.760 you allow yourself the space to open your heart to Adam? 1:01:48.880 --> 1:01:52.520 And kind of part three of that question is behind 1:01:52.680 --> 1:01:56.280 every punk persona is there a cheese ball? 1:01:56.400 --> 1:01:59.880 Because the fact that because the fact that. 1:01:59.880 --> 1:02:03.800 You are corny right now got well, the thing was, 1:02:03.840 --> 1:02:05.720 you gave yourself away with Donnie Marie. 1:02:06.480 --> 1:02:11.040 I fell into you backwards, right your persona. 1:02:10.800 --> 1:02:12.080 You started with Donnie Marie. 1:02:12.400 --> 1:02:14.360 No, no, no, no, I fell into you backwards. And 1:02:14.400 --> 1:02:16.680 so then when I started reading the pool. 1:02:17.360 --> 1:02:20.720 You're us weekly stars are just like us moment, I 1:02:20.880 --> 1:02:23.600 was like, oh, she lived for Donnie Marie on Friday 1:02:23.680 --> 1:02:25.600 nights like I did, like me and my sister did 1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:26.480 on Friday nights. 1:02:26.520 --> 1:02:27.160 That's crazy. 1:02:27.880 --> 1:02:32.120 So no, but the fact that your go to thought 1:02:32.560 --> 1:02:36.400 was Okay, I need a mattress and I need peanut 1:02:36.400 --> 1:02:42.200 butter and jelly, and like I was like yeah, And 1:02:42.320 --> 1:02:45.720 behind every punk persona is a cheese ball. 1:02:45.920 --> 1:02:49.720 And you brought this poster and oh, Dolk and Mike. 1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:54.440 I couldn't make up. So the story is, I can 1:02:54.480 --> 1:02:56.160 tell it from the book just so you know, is 1:02:56.200 --> 1:02:58.360 that I was in love with Adam. I brought Corvi. 1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:02.720 It's from Dusty Boys, and it was pre Internet, so 1:03:02.760 --> 1:03:05.040 I couldn't just look up a picture of him to 1:03:05.120 --> 1:03:09.080 drive apart because we were apart because he lived in 1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:12.360 LA and New York and I lived in Olympia, Washington. 1:03:13.080 --> 1:03:17.560 So I went to the Sam Goodie at the mall. 1:03:18.200 --> 1:03:19.840 I couldn't go to the cool record store. 1:03:20.120 --> 1:03:21.400 I shopped at Sam Goodies. 1:03:21.640 --> 1:03:24.240 Well, you're from Philly. Did they have Waxy Maxis? 1:03:24.840 --> 1:03:26.120 No, because the first the. 1:03:26.080 --> 1:03:30.680 First single I ever bought was pop Music by m 1:03:31.120 --> 1:03:34.240 at Waxy Maxie, and I always loved that name. I 1:03:34.280 --> 1:03:36.160 was like, if I ever started a record store, I'm 1:03:36.160 --> 1:03:39.160 my name of Waxy Maxis. Anyways, I went to like 1:03:39.160 --> 1:03:40.640 Sam Goodie at the mall because I was like, nobody 1:03:40.680 --> 1:03:42.520 will recognize me. It was like the punk like in 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:45.880 you know, nose and glasses, sneaking into Sam Goodie instead 1:03:45.880 --> 1:03:47.240 of the store. 1:03:48.560 --> 1:03:52.480 On Yeah, and. 1:03:51.200 --> 1:03:53.000 Nobody will see me at the mall because like it's 1:03:53.040 --> 1:03:56.640 a small town. Like seriously. Anytime I was like, you know, 1:03:57.400 --> 1:04:00.440 had a relationship with somebody, everybody knew because we all 1:04:00.480 --> 1:04:02.959 lived in the same apartment building. So I was like, oh, 1:04:03.040 --> 1:04:05.800 I saw so and So leaving her apartment you know 1:04:05.840 --> 1:04:09.080 what I mean, Like that is how every everybody knew everything, 1:04:09.160 --> 1:04:11.080 Like you couldn't. You had to like go into a 1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:13.560 coffee shop five minutes after somebody, so they didn't know 1:04:13.600 --> 1:04:16.480 you were together. Like it was like we lived in 1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:19.600 paparazzi land, even though we were like, you know, just 1:04:19.840 --> 1:04:22.520 kids in like this kind of town run by punks. 1:04:23.960 --> 1:04:25.480 It was pretty amazing to live in a town that 1:04:25.480 --> 1:04:26.920 had it done town. But that's a whole other thing. 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:29.120 So I go drive to the mall, I get my 1:04:29.160 --> 1:04:32.360 poster of the Beastie Boys, and I'm so psyched that 1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:34.280 I get to look at the most handsome man. And 1:04:34.320 --> 1:04:36.400 this is this is when you were saying, how did 1:04:36.440 --> 1:04:38.360 you manage to open up your heart after these bad 1:04:38.400 --> 1:04:41.960 experiences to this person. I like pretty boys. I just 1:04:42.120 --> 1:04:44.320 like pretty boys. I like pretty girls too, but I 1:04:44.400 --> 1:04:47.800 like pretty boys. And he is a very pretty boy. 1:04:48.200 --> 1:04:52.520 And also he loves records and he loves music. And 1:04:52.560 --> 1:04:57.000 he's very different from me and compliments me like he's 1:04:57.880 --> 1:05:00.120 I'm more like that, I don't know, you know, like 1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:02.680 like the feminist art, you know, person or like whatever. 1:05:02.840 --> 1:05:06.160 And he's much more reserved. But he is funny as hell. 1:05:06.480 --> 1:05:09.800 He is so funny, and that is just the sexiest. 1:05:10.120 --> 1:05:12.480 I mean, he's good looking, and he's funny, and he 1:05:12.800 --> 1:05:16.160 likes good records. Because I have had one night chance 1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:19.920 with people and I've looked at their collection or their CD. 1:05:19.800 --> 1:05:22.360 Collection, you're that person you judge people. 1:05:24.480 --> 1:05:26.880 I'm sorry, but if I find out Dave Matthews CD. 1:05:27.960 --> 1:05:30.120 I slept with this girl and I woke up in 1:05:30.160 --> 1:05:33.000 the morning and she had like Dave Matthews and like, 1:05:33.360 --> 1:05:33.720 I was. 1:05:33.680 --> 1:05:37.120 Like Matthews, I am. 1:05:37.280 --> 1:05:40.920 I was like no. I was just like no, and 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:43.200 I and I ghosted her. I was like, I. 1:05:43.480 --> 1:05:45.000 Can't, you're that person. 1:05:46.680 --> 1:05:48.600 I bought the poster and I brought it home to 1:05:48.640 --> 1:05:52.160 my apartment and I made out with it. I made 1:05:52.160 --> 1:05:54.120 out with it. I kissed the poster all over and 1:05:54.160 --> 1:05:57.400 I covered Mike and Yowk's faces. That was weird. I 1:05:57.440 --> 1:05:59.880 was like, your bandmates are watching me make out with 1:05:59.920 --> 1:06:02.720 you you And then he found it when he came 1:06:02.760 --> 1:06:04.800 to my apartment and he's like, what's how come the 1:06:04.800 --> 1:06:08.479 mouth it's all mestered right out of like, let's water 1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:10.960 on it. Yeah, it's fair. 1:06:11.120 --> 1:06:13.520 That's the most of romantic story I've ever heard. 1:06:13.720 --> 1:06:13.760 No. 1:06:14.320 --> 1:06:16.000 Here's the thing though, I. 1:06:17.560 --> 1:06:20.480 Used to be used to be well, not steel amb 1:06:21.080 --> 1:06:24.320 I was a member of Columbia House. Oh yeah, I 1:06:24.360 --> 1:06:29.560 was also a lazy member of Columbia House. And the 1:06:29.560 --> 1:06:32.880 way that Columbia House works, of course is yes, for 1:06:32.920 --> 1:06:35.600 those that are listening to our show that were born 1:06:35.920 --> 1:06:39.440 before nineteen ninety three, you didn't. 1:06:39.240 --> 1:06:41.959 Go to school in a pioneer buggy wagon, right. 1:06:42.240 --> 1:06:47.000 So Columbia House was the original Spotify where they would 1:06:47.160 --> 1:06:50.760 entice you in magazines and whatnot. For a penny, you 1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:56.840 get fifteen free albums and then you're instantly signing. 1:06:56.600 --> 1:06:59.520 Up for a subscription service throughout the year. And the 1:06:59.600 --> 1:07:04.520 deal with is that they will send you two. 1:07:03.800 --> 1:07:07.480 To eight records a month based on your taste and 1:07:07.560 --> 1:07:12.440 the algorithm, and if you like the records that you're getting, 1:07:13.000 --> 1:07:15.040 then they just charge you and keep on charging you. 1:07:15.240 --> 1:07:18.400 If you don't like it, you can return it, but 1:07:18.440 --> 1:07:22.440 they're kind of banking on you forgetting to return it. 1:07:22.800 --> 1:07:26.480 And so as a result, which the lazy part comes 1:07:26.480 --> 1:07:29.640 into play because I checked off, I like all types 1:07:29.680 --> 1:07:33.240 of music. I will say that a big part of 1:07:33.240 --> 1:07:38.320 my you eyebrow raising judging me for my record collection 1:07:39.480 --> 1:07:44.280 stems from all the records I didn't return from Columbia House, 1:07:44.960 --> 1:07:46.919 and I would just force myself to listen. I think 1:07:46.920 --> 1:07:50.280 between like twelve Wait a minute, I don't believe. 1:07:50.080 --> 1:07:50.640 That for a minute. 1:07:50.640 --> 1:07:54.680 All right, spew right now five records between twelve and 1:07:54.880 --> 1:07:59.440 seventeen that you wouldn't want any of your friends to 1:07:59.480 --> 1:08:01.680 know that you listen to they. 1:08:04.560 --> 1:08:05.320 Tell the truth. 1:08:05.960 --> 1:08:09.400 It's all. It's all before that, because I mean, by the. 1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:13.840 Time if you watch Donny Marie, I know, but. 1:08:13.360 --> 1:08:15.840 But I'm proud of my Olbinaton John thing. So I 1:08:15.920 --> 1:08:19.400 had totally hot, wait, totally hot. 1:08:19.439 --> 1:08:21.560 I was gonna say totally hot hot. 1:08:21.520 --> 1:08:25.439 Xanadu or like which which car hot totally we all 1:08:25.439 --> 1:08:26.439 felt for totally hot. 1:08:26.920 --> 1:08:30.240 I literally carried it to camp without the vinyl in it, 1:08:30.320 --> 1:08:32.800 so the vinyl didn't get hurt. I just carried the 1:08:33.600 --> 1:08:35.080 and I slept with it under my pillow. 1:08:35.720 --> 1:08:41.200 First fist fight I got into with Mark Rapp in 1:08:41.240 --> 1:08:42.120 the third grade. 1:08:42.240 --> 1:08:44.560 The way that I could get under his skin. 1:08:46.160 --> 1:08:48.800 Was okay, this is like in the video game era, 1:08:50.240 --> 1:08:54.240 where you could write out something longer than three initials 1:08:54.280 --> 1:08:55.280 if you get the high score. 1:08:55.400 --> 1:08:57.479 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, well I was are. 1:08:57.560 --> 1:09:01.240 Asked, right, but then it was one particular game that 1:09:01.360 --> 1:09:06.040 let you have like twenty characters, and the sure fire 1:09:06.080 --> 1:09:14.439 away to get under Mark's skin was to write Olivia sucks. 1:09:14.760 --> 1:09:16.840 I mean I would spelling it out and he's like, 1:09:16.920 --> 1:09:21.400 if you press into I swear a mirror and run. 1:09:21.479 --> 1:09:22.880 My That was daily. 1:09:23.160 --> 1:09:26.479 But yeah, for Christmas, I remember, Yeah, she had like 1:09:26.640 --> 1:09:29.080 a commercial campaign with the black leather jacket and all 1:09:29.120 --> 1:09:29.439 that shit. 1:09:29.800 --> 1:09:32.840 It was like Sandy from Greece continued. 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:35.400 Right exactly the same outfit. So yeah, it was so good. 1:09:36.200 --> 1:09:39.320 I had a fancy called Destination Olivia and then there 1:09:39.439 --> 1:09:42.400 we had a party around it to celebrate its lunch, 1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:44.679 and it was a jone Jet versus Olivia and John 1:09:44.720 --> 1:09:45.720 party and you had. 1:09:45.760 --> 1:09:47.440 Joined it or you made the fanzine. 1:09:47.840 --> 1:09:50.679 I made the fancine called the Station Olivia, and then 1:09:50.920 --> 1:09:52.519 a bunch of girls in my town were like, we're 1:09:52.560 --> 1:09:57.160 going to throw this party that is jone Jet versus Olivia, 1:09:58.000 --> 1:10:00.759 and so everybody dressed it's either Joan or Olivia. 1:10:01.760 --> 1:10:04.400 So you're basically it was so and a lot of 1:10:04.400 --> 1:10:08.439 people were Lingerie for now an a win tour of 1:10:09.200 --> 1:10:13.320 music fanzines because you know, like the BC Boys taught 1:10:13.320 --> 1:10:19.120 me everything. I know that I still utilized now in 1:10:19.160 --> 1:10:22.599 my career, even with me creating an OK player and 1:10:23.040 --> 1:10:26.519 being on the internet, Like everything that I implement now 1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:29.960 is from those two months of touring with those guys, 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:34.960 especially with getting Grand Royal. Probably, like one of my 1:10:35.960 --> 1:10:39.920 prize possessions is that I have ten copies of every 1:10:40.000 --> 1:10:43.920 Grand Royal ever published somewhere in my storage unit. But 1:10:44.040 --> 1:10:48.879 for you talk about the publisher in you, like you 1:10:48.960 --> 1:10:52.080 putting these fanzines together, you putting and I don't mean 1:10:52.160 --> 1:10:55.160 high school, I'm talking about even in your career. How 1:10:55.160 --> 1:10:58.720 do you have the energy to even do that in 1:10:58.760 --> 1:11:01.200 addition to being an artist. 1:11:01.920 --> 1:11:03.680 I mean, you know, when you're in your twenties, it's 1:11:03.720 --> 1:11:05.439 not that big big deal, like and when you live 1:11:05.479 --> 1:11:07.439 in a small town, there was nothing going on. Like 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:10.320 we were bored kids, and we were really lucky that 1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:15.120 at the time Heroin wasn't around. So yeah, we drank forties, 1:11:15.200 --> 1:11:18.759 but like, and I may have drank too many forties 1:11:18.840 --> 1:11:20.240 a few many times. 1:11:19.880 --> 1:11:20.040 But. 1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:24.559 You know, it was like something to do. So I 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:27.120 was just like, you know, I was also like really 1:11:27.160 --> 1:11:30.400 stressed out a lot about stuff. And you know when 1:11:30.439 --> 1:11:33.000 you first become a feminist or you first become conscious 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:35.800 about just like marginalization and oppression and stuff like that. 1:11:36.120 --> 1:11:40.160 Everywhere you look. It's tough for myself. Everywhere I looked, 1:11:40.439 --> 1:11:42.240 I was like, there it is there, it is there, 1:11:42.240 --> 1:11:43.759 it is. I was like, oh my god, this movie 1:11:43.800 --> 1:11:46.200 is so messed up. Like my mind was kind of 1:11:46.240 --> 1:11:48.960 exploding when I was in my twenties with like all 1:11:48.960 --> 1:11:52.000 the stuff I was learning about, like oh wow, you know, 1:11:52.080 --> 1:11:54.360 this is how this group of people is being treated, 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:56.400 and this is like to keep these people down so 1:11:56.439 --> 1:11:58.439 that they're workers and they don't you know, and I 1:11:58.479 --> 1:12:00.960 was like whoa, you know, kind of freaking out. And 1:12:00.960 --> 1:12:04.120 so fancines were real outlet for me to write poetically 1:12:04.680 --> 1:12:06.760 about that stuff and to be creative about it and 1:12:06.800 --> 1:12:08.720 to sort of like have it like go through the 1:12:08.720 --> 1:12:11.639 computer of my brain and then come out the other 1:12:11.760 --> 1:12:14.640 side as a way for me to talk about it. 1:12:14.680 --> 1:12:16.880 And also, you know, me and my sister were the 1:12:17.040 --> 1:12:20.320 first people in my family, like my mom and I 1:12:20.360 --> 1:12:22.000 didn't go to college, so like we got to go 1:12:22.040 --> 1:12:24.320 to college, and I was like so thrilled, Like I 1:12:24.360 --> 1:12:26.439 felt like I was so lucky I got to be there, 1:12:26.760 --> 1:12:28.920 and I didn't want to, you know, waste it, and 1:12:28.960 --> 1:12:32.280 so I had this real yearning to like the first 1:12:32.280 --> 1:12:34.439 time I read a Bell Hooks book, I wanted to 1:12:34.439 --> 1:12:36.080 share it with my mom, you know, and it was 1:12:36.120 --> 1:12:37.840 like I wanted to share it with other people in 1:12:37.880 --> 1:12:40.680 my family. And so writing these fanzines was also a 1:12:40.720 --> 1:12:43.639 way that I could share the books I was reading 1:12:43.640 --> 1:12:45.840 in college that back then there was no internet, so 1:12:45.880 --> 1:12:47.640 it was a way to put booklists. It was a 1:12:47.680 --> 1:12:49.439 way to talk about the issues that were coming up 1:12:49.479 --> 1:12:52.360 in books I was reading with other people who maybe 1:12:52.360 --> 1:12:54.880 weren't going to college, because the majority of the punk 1:12:54.880 --> 1:12:59.120 scene in Olympia weren't at Evergreen. Like Evergreen that was 1:12:59.160 --> 1:13:03.160 the college that was in my town that I went to, 1:13:03.280 --> 1:13:05.280 and that's why I moved there to Olympia, Washington and 1:13:05.320 --> 1:13:08.000 Evergreen State College, and but most of the punks didn't 1:13:08.000 --> 1:13:10.080 go to that college. They were just like lived in 1:13:10.080 --> 1:13:13.080 the town, you know. So it was like to be 1:13:13.240 --> 1:13:16.800 able to talk about feminism with everybody, not just people 1:13:16.880 --> 1:13:18.960 who were in college, and actually people in my college. 1:13:18.960 --> 1:13:21.679 There was like one feminist class that I took. People 1:13:21.720 --> 1:13:24.360 think it was like this big feminist outbed, but it 1:13:24.439 --> 1:13:26.760 was actually really frowned upon. And when I tried to 1:13:26.800 --> 1:13:32.080 put feminist ideas into my photography. It was like, shut 1:13:32.120 --> 1:13:36.640 the fuck up. So to be able to put that 1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:39.200 out into the world and have people respond to it's 1:13:39.200 --> 1:13:42.360 really important. And you know, when Kurt died, you guys were, 1:13:42.439 --> 1:13:45.720 you know, scrambling to you know, get your record done 1:13:45.720 --> 1:13:47.320 and make sure your contract was shut up. And I 1:13:47.360 --> 1:13:49.880 was writing a fancy called The April Fool's Day about 1:13:49.960 --> 1:13:54.400 quitting drinking. And I was interviewing my friend Mikey's bass 1:13:54.400 --> 1:13:57.400 player Bryan Sparhawk, who I actually just saw him when 1:13:57.400 --> 1:14:00.520 we got the key to the city in Olympia. 1:14:00.680 --> 1:14:02.519 Now you're the establishment a. 1:14:02.439 --> 1:14:04.280 Month ago, I know. I was like, I was like, 1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:07.280 does this mean I can get into the Governor's Inn, 1:14:07.840 --> 1:14:10.040 which is like the local hotels? Can I just use 1:14:10.080 --> 1:14:10.519 this key? 1:14:10.920 --> 1:14:11.080 Right? 1:14:12.800 --> 1:14:15.760 But no, it was like I was interviewing, you know, 1:14:16.000 --> 1:14:19.160 my friend Mikey also he was Kirk's front and he 1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:22.080 was a heroin user, and I was trying to do 1:14:22.160 --> 1:14:25.439 everything I could to talk about addiction in the punk 1:14:25.479 --> 1:14:28.200 scene and to raise awareness and to try to like 1:14:28.560 --> 1:14:32.080 make Kurt's death mean something, you know, because like I can't. 1:14:32.120 --> 1:14:34.559 I couldn't. That's how I deal with things. I'm like, 1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:38.280 this has to mean, something like this has to this 1:14:38.400 --> 1:14:41.240 horrible feeling I'm feeling. How can I channel it into 1:14:41.280 --> 1:14:44.800 something that is not going to push me down a 1:14:44.840 --> 1:14:47.080 bad road and it is going to make me feel 1:14:47.240 --> 1:14:50.920 like I'm a part of something positive, you know what 1:14:50.960 --> 1:14:52.559 I mean? And like I didn't want his death to 1:14:52.720 --> 1:14:55.759 just be oh to member of the twenty seven club, 1:14:55.880 --> 1:15:01.280 Like there were people in my community who were going 1:15:01.400 --> 1:15:03.800 further down the drug road because he had died, and 1:15:03.840 --> 1:15:08.439 they were really depressed, And how could I be a 1:15:08.479 --> 1:15:11.240 part of just starting a conversation? And so I did 1:15:11.240 --> 1:15:14.200 that through a fancy you know that most people don't 1:15:14.200 --> 1:15:16.080 have because it's not a print. 1:15:16.120 --> 1:15:18.400 But what I was going to ask, do you least 1:15:18.439 --> 1:15:20.599 have the master copies? 1:15:21.800 --> 1:15:26.480 It fails. It's like an archive f and white Youth boast. 1:15:26.720 --> 1:15:28.280 So they're somewhere preserved. 1:15:28.520 --> 1:15:30.599 Yeah, they're right across the street from Washington Store Park 1:15:31.200 --> 1:15:33.720 in that library. 1:15:36.720 --> 1:15:38.400 Where do you currently reside now. 1:15:38.640 --> 1:15:40.000 Pasadena, California? 1:15:40.200 --> 1:15:41.240 Really? Yeah? 1:15:41.320 --> 1:15:42.960 My mom moved here because she liked that song A 1:15:43.000 --> 1:15:44.360 Little Old Lady from Pasadena. 1:15:45.400 --> 1:15:45.760 I see. 1:15:46.200 --> 1:15:47.800 I was like, why did you play Pasadena? She's like, 1:15:48.040 --> 1:15:50.040 I almost like that little Old Lady from Pasadena song? 1:15:50.040 --> 1:15:51.599 I was like she's like, I'm a old lady now, 1:15:51.640 --> 1:15:53.280 so I'm a little old lady in Pasadena. 1:15:53.720 --> 1:15:57.080 I lived there for my mom's side of the family 1:15:57.120 --> 1:16:02.559 lived out there, so wow, yeah briefly. Wow, that's where 1:16:03.120 --> 1:16:04.840 my mother's side of the family lived. 1:16:05.080 --> 1:16:05.640 Now I want to. 1:16:05.640 --> 1:16:09.120 Ask de wee questions, what shows are you currently binging? 1:16:11.920 --> 1:16:13.960 I'm getting something cheesy out of you if it's not 1:16:14.000 --> 1:16:14.719 your record collection. 1:16:15.680 --> 1:16:21.000 I mean I binged Hacks, I binged Girls five Ever. 1:16:22.000 --> 1:16:23.519 I think it's so funny, it's hilarious. 1:16:23.640 --> 1:16:29.760 Yeah, but actually I think it's called Stars. There's this 1:16:30.160 --> 1:16:33.480 other one that's about a girl group that happened before, 1:16:33.880 --> 1:16:35.720 and it's got like Brandy. 1:16:36.080 --> 1:16:39.080 Yeah, Stars, but that was only two seasons of it. 1:16:39.160 --> 1:16:42.599 Yeah, it's so but it's like prototype Girls five ever. 1:16:42.800 --> 1:16:45.200 But it just didn't it didn't go hard comedy. It 1:16:45.280 --> 1:16:46.960 meant it went more like so. 1:16:47.200 --> 1:16:50.000 Was sincere right, Yeah it had it was. 1:16:50.120 --> 1:16:55.400 It's actually a really, really, really funny show. But yeah, 1:16:55.439 --> 1:16:59.080 I mean Brandy, do you know wrong? 1:16:59.360 --> 1:17:02.439 I just my favorite harmony stacker of the nineties. 1:17:02.520 --> 1:17:05.759 Yes, incredible, but yeah, it's like it's like chock full 1:17:05.800 --> 1:17:09.120 of literal stars. But it's also about like a nineties, 1:17:09.720 --> 1:17:13.599 kind of like rap singing group that gets back together 1:17:13.880 --> 1:17:16.960 when they're like older and having relationships and stuff like that. 1:17:17.040 --> 1:17:20.040 So I just I binge that, but it ended. That's 1:17:20.080 --> 1:17:22.640 the problem with benching things is that then you're like, oh, no, 1:17:22.720 --> 1:17:24.280 I'll never find out what happened. 1:17:24.000 --> 1:17:27.240 Because yeah, I'm that way with Detroiters. 1:17:27.520 --> 1:17:30.080 We just started watching that dude before. 1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:33.960 I loved him, and I'm happy for his ammy success 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:39.759 with his Netflix show now, but Detroitters. I called Jason 1:17:39.760 --> 1:17:43.800 Sadekas at least once a month to beg him to 1:17:43.840 --> 1:17:44.639 bring that show back. 1:17:44.640 --> 1:17:45.840 He's one of the producers of it. 1:17:46.600 --> 1:17:54.080 Okay, so there's a couple's question, what is your ideal 1:17:54.320 --> 1:17:58.200 bedroom temperature? I learned in the Pandemic that a couple 1:17:58.320 --> 1:18:03.880 must be equal, yoked in agreement how they want the 1:18:03.920 --> 1:18:04.759 bedroom temperature. 1:18:04.840 --> 1:18:06.400 Eighty three? 1:18:06.600 --> 1:18:10.720 You're Africa hot. You and I are the same person. 1:18:11.080 --> 1:18:15.439 Yeah, eighty three. And Adam's fine with whatever. But my kid, 1:18:15.640 --> 1:18:17.840 because it runs on the same thing. Our kid likes 1:18:17.840 --> 1:18:19.519 it to be freezing cold. He wants it to be 1:18:19.560 --> 1:18:20.240 eighty degrees. 1:18:21.439 --> 1:18:21.679 Yeah. 1:18:21.760 --> 1:18:26.519 I've probably some of the harshest arguments I've had in 1:18:26.560 --> 1:18:29.480 a relationship starts with the temperature. 1:18:29.720 --> 1:18:32.200 Are you going through menopause? Maybe that's it. 1:18:32.920 --> 1:18:37.960 I think I am obviously I am. I think I am. Okay, 1:18:38.040 --> 1:18:42.280 are you a text? Cold call or FaceTime? Person? 1:18:42.960 --> 1:18:46.960 Text? Okay, text and FaceTime, but I faced on my 1:18:47.000 --> 1:18:50.840 mom like only only my mom and Adam, do you am? 1:18:52.360 --> 1:18:54.000 I do Marco Polo with my. 1:18:54.000 --> 1:18:57.400 Friends really just out of nowhere, like you know, they're 1:18:57.400 --> 1:19:00.960 in the shower somewhere, like inconvenient. 1:19:01.880 --> 1:19:03.160 Is that? What is marco polo? 1:19:03.760 --> 1:19:05.799 Oh? So marco polo is where you leave a video, 1:19:06.680 --> 1:19:09.320 so like when it's convenient to me, it's like FaceTime, 1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:11.760 but it's like when it's convenient to me. So it's 1:19:11.800 --> 1:19:15.400 like me and my friend Jim or my friend Kathy, 1:19:15.479 --> 1:19:17.600 like we leave and my friend Dusty we leave like 1:19:18.240 --> 1:19:20.240 videos for each other on this thing called Marco polo. 1:19:20.320 --> 1:19:22.479 So it's like I'll just be doing something and I'm 1:19:22.479 --> 1:19:24.479 backstage and I'm able to talk because I'm not on 1:19:24.600 --> 1:19:26.800 vocal rest, and this is like my ten minutes of 1:19:26.920 --> 1:19:29.720 time that I can talk. So like just here's where 1:19:29.720 --> 1:19:31.439 I am, and here's what's going on. I miss you, 1:19:31.479 --> 1:19:34.760 what's going on in Alaska? Like whatever? And then when 1:19:35.080 --> 1:19:37.320 they feel like it, they leave me one back and 1:19:37.320 --> 1:19:39.040 then I get to check it and I will get 1:19:39.040 --> 1:19:40.840 these like new Marco Polos every day and I can 1:19:40.880 --> 1:19:43.360 check it at my convenience. I just didn't add for 1:19:43.439 --> 1:19:45.560 Marco Polo, so I should get like a million dollars. 1:19:46.000 --> 1:19:47.040 I didn't know Marco Polo. 1:19:47.040 --> 1:19:51.280 I thought you meant Marco Polo as in you just ambush. 1:19:50.160 --> 1:19:55.080 So I thought like it was like the three in 1:19:55.120 --> 1:19:55.519 the morning. 1:19:56.280 --> 1:19:58.479 Yeah, yeah, no, But that's the cool thing is that 1:19:58.520 --> 1:20:00.639 you can just leave the video at in the morning, 1:20:01.000 --> 1:20:02.680 if that's why you're feeling like doing it. Like I 1:20:02.720 --> 1:20:05.720 can't call my've all my three in the morning. Oh, 1:20:05.800 --> 1:20:08.200 I just opened her house because she lives five blocks away. 1:20:08.520 --> 1:20:10.560 I literally don't face on my mom anymore because I 1:20:10.560 --> 1:20:11.639 just walk over to her house. 1:20:12.280 --> 1:20:12.840 Are you kidding? 1:20:12.880 --> 1:20:17.280 My mom will call me at any she doesn't understand 1:20:17.280 --> 1:20:21.240 the word no, or I'm working or I'm taping live 1:20:21.320 --> 1:20:21.679 right now. 1:20:21.720 --> 1:20:23.559 I'll call you after I'm done taping. 1:20:23.760 --> 1:20:26.120 Like she's sitting just at a frame. 1:20:26.960 --> 1:20:31.880 Oh absolutely, Like you see her her nostrils as she's 1:20:31.960 --> 1:20:33.719 like she just got an iPhone. 1:20:33.720 --> 1:20:35.559 So yeah, that's that's that person. 1:20:36.040 --> 1:20:38.360 Yeah, I talked to my mom's crown molding a lot 1:20:38.439 --> 1:20:41.040 on FaceTime. I'm like, there you go, Mom, Really you're 1:20:41.080 --> 1:20:42.559 crowme molding. That's really great. 1:20:45.560 --> 1:20:48.080 Yeah, that sounds about right. When's the last time you've 1:20:48.080 --> 1:20:48.920 been starstruck? 1:20:49.760 --> 1:20:50.160 God? 1:20:50.280 --> 1:20:52.960 I mean, I don't really, Like all my friends are 1:20:53.040 --> 1:20:55.000 like nurses and teachers, so like, I don't really we 1:20:55.040 --> 1:20:57.599 don't really run in celebrity circles so much. 1:20:59.479 --> 1:21:01.559 Person that you meant that you're like, oh, yeah. 1:21:01.400 --> 1:21:04.559 Okay, so Leslie gooor. I met at a party at 1:21:04.600 --> 1:21:11.720 Evensler's house, so Evansler wrote Vagina Monologues. Yeah, and her 1:21:11.800 --> 1:21:13.519 apartment when I went to it, and this is many 1:21:13.600 --> 1:21:16.120 years ago in New York, was painted all red and 1:21:16.160 --> 1:21:18.439 all the furniture was red. I mean it was like 1:21:19.080 --> 1:21:21.360 it's like it's a TV show that rates itself right, 1:21:21.439 --> 1:21:24.840 Like I was. I was like, no, this is so great. 1:21:24.880 --> 1:21:27.200 But it was like every like kind of feminist luminary 1:21:27.320 --> 1:21:30.240 was there and like this, you know, celebrating this activist 1:21:30.320 --> 1:21:33.200 who had just gotten let out of jail after forty years. 1:21:33.320 --> 1:21:35.680 And it was like this big thing and like everybody 1:21:35.720 --> 1:21:39.559 was there and I was back to back with this 1:21:39.600 --> 1:21:43.680 woman and then we turned around and I looked at 1:21:43.720 --> 1:21:47.320 her and I just was like Leslie Gore, and I 1:21:47.320 --> 1:21:49.320 could barely get it out of my mouth. 1:21:49.439 --> 1:21:51.840 And then I just fully met her at a party. 1:21:52.360 --> 1:21:55.479 I met her at a party in a red apartment 1:21:55.520 --> 1:21:58.400 where everything was red, like we were inside a vagina. 1:21:58.600 --> 1:22:00.280 And then I looked at her and I I was 1:22:00.360 --> 1:22:04.120 just I was sobbing and I couldn't get a word out, 1:22:04.160 --> 1:22:07.479 and I'm just bab I love Leslie Bore. I loved 1:22:07.520 --> 1:22:10.080 Leslie Gore since I was a child. Her voice is 1:22:10.200 --> 1:22:13.680 so amazing to me. It's got that like clear as 1:22:13.720 --> 1:22:17.160 a bell kind of quality to it. And I always 1:22:17.240 --> 1:22:19.720 was like, there's something underneath the lyrics going on, There's 1:22:19.720 --> 1:22:21.960 something underneath the lyrics going on. And it turns out 1:22:22.000 --> 1:22:25.640 she was gay. I didn't know that, and yeah, and 1:22:25.680 --> 1:22:27.160 her and her girlfriend were at the party, and I 1:22:27.200 --> 1:22:29.600 was like, I knew it, but you know, her and 1:22:29.680 --> 1:22:35.320 her brother wrote out here on my own k yes, 1:22:35.920 --> 1:22:39.120 and I sang that. I went on stage at a 1:22:39.200 --> 1:22:42.800 high school dance in seventh grade with this girl, Jeanie Staver, 1:22:43.400 --> 1:22:47.360 and this other girl and we took parts singing that 1:22:47.520 --> 1:22:51.479 like we kind of like we made it into a trio. 1:22:52.000 --> 1:22:54.800 Who got the bridge? That's the hard part oh, I did, 1:22:55.200 --> 1:22:56.840 come on, that's. 1:22:57.200 --> 1:22:59.720 The whole thing to get the bridge. But then I 1:22:59.760 --> 1:23:02.200 thought like, I was like, you and your brother wrote 1:23:02.240 --> 1:23:04.840 that song because I interviewed her for Miss magazine after 1:23:04.840 --> 1:23:06.840 I after I stopped crying, I was like, I want to, 1:23:06.880 --> 1:23:08.600 you know, do something with you. 1:23:08.600 --> 1:23:12.600 No, I didn't know she wrote that yeah, oh damn okay. 1:23:12.840 --> 1:23:14.360 Yeah, And I was like, that's so weird because I 1:23:14.640 --> 1:23:17.720 always felt such a connection with that song. And you know, 1:23:17.760 --> 1:23:21.400 Coco the character, I mean, fame was everything, you know 1:23:21.560 --> 1:23:24.599 when I was young, like that movie in Greece. I 1:23:24.720 --> 1:23:27.240 was always like, when Beyonce first came on the scene, 1:23:27.280 --> 1:23:29.240 I was like, they have to do a hip hop 1:23:29.920 --> 1:23:33.519 Grease remake with Beyonce because she's so she'd be so 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:34.360 good as Sandy. 1:23:35.040 --> 1:23:37.679 But it never happened, and well, they know, they kind 1:23:37.680 --> 1:23:41.559 of almost did. They remade a hip hop version of Carmen. 1:23:42.680 --> 1:23:47.400 Yeah, and Grease the movie with modern stars. 1:23:47.720 --> 1:23:49.160 I thought you were going to tell me that you 1:23:49.160 --> 1:23:51.639 were a Grease too person, not a Grease one person. 1:23:51.720 --> 1:23:57.560 Okay. I do like that song. I don't believe I 1:23:57.680 --> 1:24:00.920 want to cuckol Cucko, right, it's got one good song. 1:24:01.240 --> 1:24:03.360 It's terrible it's terrible. 1:24:03.439 --> 1:24:06.840 Okay, I'm glad you're saying that it's terrible. Grease two. 1:24:06.920 --> 1:24:10.599 People will argue be in the ground that they liked 1:24:11.000 --> 1:24:12.679 Grease two better than Grease one. 1:24:13.000 --> 1:24:15.760 Oh that's a lie, that's a lie. That's just like 1:24:15.800 --> 1:24:18.080 they're just lying to their debtrarians. 1:24:19.360 --> 1:24:21.360 I liked your first album better, or I like the 1:24:21.400 --> 1:24:25.280 demo better than Okay, that's what I thought you were. 1:24:25.640 --> 1:24:28.840 I'm always like that, Like I'm like somebody was like, oh, well, 1:24:28.840 --> 1:24:30.920 Liz Fair and you know Exile and Guida, and I 1:24:30.920 --> 1:24:33.000 was like, yeah, but when she was girly Sounds and 1:24:33.040 --> 1:24:35.400 it was on a cassette, it was so much better. 1:24:36.360 --> 1:24:36.720 I called this. 1:24:37.080 --> 1:24:39.800 I remember meeting Liz Fair at a show at a 1:24:39.840 --> 1:24:41.920 Babes and Twillan show, and she told me she was 1:24:41.960 --> 1:24:45.360 writing a response to the Rolling Stones Exile on Main Street, 1:24:45.400 --> 1:24:46.320 which is one of my. 1:24:46.200 --> 1:24:49.880 Favorite Stones albums. And I was like so blown away 1:24:49.880 --> 1:24:52.240 because I was a huge Stones fan when I was younger. 1:24:52.240 --> 1:24:55.000 I guess that's my embarrassing theme, Like right, I mean, 1:24:55.040 --> 1:24:57.360 it's not embarrassing. I was huge, huge, huge into the 1:24:57.400 --> 1:24:58.720 Stones to the point I was going to get like 1:24:58.760 --> 1:25:01.439 the lips tattooed once at a party and I was like, 1:25:01.479 --> 1:25:03.960 so glad I didn't. And then when I kind of 1:25:04.000 --> 1:25:06.479 like started learning about feminism, and I was like ooh, 1:25:06.720 --> 1:25:10.439 under my thumb, brown sugar, oh you know what I mean. 1:25:10.520 --> 1:25:12.559 Like I was like, this is there's a lot of 1:25:12.600 --> 1:25:15.360 sexism and racism going on in here. And I was 1:25:15.400 --> 1:25:18.479 just like this is not cool. And I literally took 1:25:18.520 --> 1:25:21.200 and I mean now, of course, as a record colicker, 1:25:21.200 --> 1:25:22.880 I don't even want to tell you this, but I 1:25:22.920 --> 1:25:26.200 had like you know, Japanese pressings, and like I had 1:25:26.200 --> 1:25:29.240 a stack this big, all this kind stuff. I went 1:25:29.320 --> 1:25:31.200 down to the record store and I set it on 1:25:31.240 --> 1:25:33.880 the desk and I just was like have it. 1:25:35.000 --> 1:25:35.719 He gave him back. 1:25:37.200 --> 1:25:39.400 I just know there from all over the place. I 1:25:39.439 --> 1:25:40.960 just was like, I was like, I can't have this 1:25:41.040 --> 1:25:43.559 in my house, Like it was contraband, like what is 1:25:43.640 --> 1:25:44.240 wrong with me? 1:25:44.760 --> 1:25:47.600 Like because you think someone's going to the collection and 1:25:47.680 --> 1:25:48.960 judge you. 1:25:48.960 --> 1:25:51.200 No, it was because like I couldn't physically have it 1:25:51.240 --> 1:25:52.920 in my house because it made me so disgusted that 1:25:52.960 --> 1:25:55.920 I loved it so much. And then I was like 1:25:56.200 --> 1:25:59.760 so disappointed and I realized I was so sad and 1:25:59.800 --> 1:26:01.759 I was so upset. I couldn't look at it because 1:26:01.800 --> 1:26:05.120 it made me nuts, and so I just like dropped 1:26:05.160 --> 1:26:06.800 it on. I lived above a record store, so I 1:26:06.880 --> 1:26:09.120 dropped it in the record store and just gave that 1:26:09.160 --> 1:26:10.760 to them as a present to sell. And it was 1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:12.639 just like I don't even want any money for it, 1:26:12.680 --> 1:26:14.479 but like now I can see gray area. 1:26:15.160 --> 1:26:17.519 Yeah, I was like, even the most righteous person, I 1:26:17.520 --> 1:26:21.280 think five percent of their record collection, oh yeah, is 1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:25.599 allowed a problematic faith as long as it's not there 1:26:25.600 --> 1:26:26.120 are some of that. 1:26:26.160 --> 1:26:29.040 I just can't because I can't because it's just like 1:26:29.120 --> 1:26:32.599 I physically feel ill. But it's like you know exact mean, 1:26:32.600 --> 1:26:36.040 you know I love music too much that it's not 1:26:36.080 --> 1:26:38.479 all of a sudden gonna make me do something horrible 1:26:38.479 --> 1:26:40.000 if I listen to it, you know what I. 1:26:40.040 --> 1:26:42.519 Mean, Like you got to be but you're aware of 1:26:42.560 --> 1:26:45.120 it now. But oh I think you see you threw 1:26:45.160 --> 1:26:47.280 that away. I was like, no, don't ever throw Oh. 1:26:47.160 --> 1:26:48.639 No, I would never throw vine normal way. 1:26:48.760 --> 1:26:51.759 God, Okay, what is your secret talent? 1:26:52.760 --> 1:26:54.719 I mean I can put my whole fist in my mouth. 1:26:56.960 --> 1:26:58.400 Okay, that's a secret talent. 1:26:58.960 --> 1:27:04.760 Small hands or not, I'm gonna ask you. And this 1:27:04.880 --> 1:27:08.760 is subjective. Is the grass greener on the other side. 1:27:09.680 --> 1:27:11.880 Oh are you insatiable? 1:27:12.560 --> 1:27:13.920 You mean like that I want more, more and more 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:14.800 and more all the time. 1:27:14.880 --> 1:27:17.519 Yes, well, I mean my grass greener on the other 1:27:17.600 --> 1:27:21.439 side was okay. So back in our grateful dead jam 1:27:21.520 --> 1:27:25.679 ban two hundred days on the year life, to tell 1:27:25.680 --> 1:27:28.040 me that we're going to Europe for another two months 1:27:28.200 --> 1:27:33.840 was like I'd rather slit my wrists, and God if 1:27:33.880 --> 1:27:36.679 you hear me, Like, can I stay in one place 1:27:36.720 --> 1:27:38.559 and not have to tour ever again and make the 1:27:38.560 --> 1:27:38.960 same mone? 1:27:39.400 --> 1:27:42.080 And then you get it, and now it's like I. 1:27:42.080 --> 1:27:46.240 Would do anything, oh yeah, to go back on the road. 1:27:46.320 --> 1:27:50.400 And you know, I've only been home a month, Like 1:27:50.439 --> 1:27:53.519 I just got off the road. So I came home 1:27:53.560 --> 1:27:55.000 and I was just like, I. 1:27:54.920 --> 1:27:59.400 Hate it here, even doing what I perceived to be 1:27:59.479 --> 1:28:00.840 a victory lap for you. 1:28:01.360 --> 1:28:03.599 It wasn't a victory lab at all. It felt better 1:28:03.680 --> 1:28:06.360 than it felt. I mean, I'm singing. 1:28:06.040 --> 1:28:08.120 Better, Well, that's a victory lab. 1:28:08.200 --> 1:28:10.559 I'm enjoying. Yeah, I'm enjoying the songs. I don't I 1:28:10.600 --> 1:28:12.920 can close my eyes and feel myself in the music 1:28:12.920 --> 1:28:14.599 and not have to look to see if somebody's throwing 1:28:14.640 --> 1:28:17.160 something at me. We have a sound person. We have 1:28:17.200 --> 1:28:19.519 a manager. I mean that's the one when you're talking 1:28:19.560 --> 1:28:21.760 about like going back and what could you what would 1:28:21.760 --> 1:28:24.559 you tell yourself or if you saw the future, like whatever, 1:28:25.120 --> 1:28:29.479 I would tell myself, like get a sound person right away, 1:28:29.920 --> 1:28:31.680 like this. This needs to be a member of your 1:28:31.720 --> 1:28:33.120 This is a member of your band. 1:28:33.479 --> 1:28:34.960 Like oh, the engineer is important. 1:28:35.000 --> 1:28:38.479 That's how people have a sound person. You can't go 1:28:39.080 --> 1:28:42.360 I can't have a man who doesn't like my politics, 1:28:42.760 --> 1:28:47.080 literally controlling my voice like it's just it's it's crazy 1:28:47.120 --> 1:28:49.599 making you can't live that way as as an artist, 1:28:49.680 --> 1:28:52.280 like with the particular kind of like athletic singing that 1:28:52.360 --> 1:28:56.880 I do. And so yeah, I would I would say, also, hey, 1:28:56.960 --> 1:28:59.760 you know, maybe you should get a manager. I wish 1:28:59.800 --> 1:29:03.160 I have known about those jobs sooner and have more education. 1:29:03.240 --> 1:29:04.880 And I think that the internet was around, I would 1:29:04.920 --> 1:29:07.600 have known about that stuff. And maybe you know, a 1:29:07.600 --> 1:29:09.880 lot of stress came in our band and Bikini Kill 1:29:09.920 --> 1:29:11.960 because we didn't have a manager. And so people go 1:29:12.000 --> 1:29:14.200 to the lead singer, and then I would bring stuff 1:29:14.240 --> 1:29:16.040 into the band and I would be like the bearer 1:29:16.040 --> 1:29:18.040 of bad tidings, you know what I mean, I'd be 1:29:18.080 --> 1:29:20.559 the one in practice, who's like, hey, before everybody leaves, 1:29:20.560 --> 1:29:23.960 I have these ten questions, right, And then I'm like, 1:29:24.160 --> 1:29:26.040 you know, because the manager, there's always a point where 1:29:26.040 --> 1:29:27.519 you're rolling your eyes at your mand You're like, God, 1:29:27.560 --> 1:29:29.400 if you asked me to do one more thing, it's 1:29:29.439 --> 1:29:31.559 not their fault. But at the same time, you're like, 1:29:32.400 --> 1:29:34.439 I don't want to do that interviewer. I don't want it, 1:29:34.520 --> 1:29:36.519 you know, like I don't want to do another photo shoot, 1:29:36.640 --> 1:29:38.200 or they don't have any clothes that fit me, like 1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:40.920 you know, like I'm just not in the mood. I 1:29:40.920 --> 1:29:43.800 don't want to be looked at, you know whatever. But 1:29:43.960 --> 1:29:45.800 I do have that thing of like the first day 1:29:45.800 --> 1:29:48.320 after tour, I'm like so happy I don't have soundcheck. 1:29:48.360 --> 1:29:50.519 Like I wake up and I'm like, oh, I don't. 1:29:50.280 --> 1:29:51.840 Have a sound check today, line check. 1:29:51.880 --> 1:29:55.040 Oh my god, I'm so happy I don't have a soundcheck. 1:29:55.240 --> 1:29:58.479 And then I'm like, oh no, I'm not going to 1:29:58.560 --> 1:30:00.960 get that. I'm not going to get the dopamine and 1:30:01.000 --> 1:30:04.880 the adrenaline rush of being on stage and the community 1:30:04.960 --> 1:30:07.800 filling and I'm just going to like go get my 1:30:07.840 --> 1:30:11.439 windshield fixed today. And I'm like I can't live my 1:30:11.479 --> 1:30:14.200 life this way. But now I'm like settling in and 1:30:14.240 --> 1:30:16.720 I'm like, you know, I have ten other projects that 1:30:17.240 --> 1:30:19.360 I have to get to work on, and so I'm 1:30:19.400 --> 1:30:19.920 really busy. 1:30:20.640 --> 1:30:23.519 So this is one area that I see a lot 1:30:23.560 --> 1:30:30.840 of my peers failing spectacularly in, which is if you're 1:30:30.880 --> 1:30:36.040 known as a rebel and you've been here long enough 1:30:36.680 --> 1:30:40.840 walking a path, the path that you made, what happens 1:30:41.200 --> 1:30:45.200 once there's no more struggle? Like do you feel comfortable 1:30:45.800 --> 1:30:48.080 if it's just you and the songs? 1:30:48.120 --> 1:30:48.360 Now? 1:30:48.400 --> 1:30:51.960 Like if there's not something to rebel or fight against. 1:30:52.000 --> 1:30:57.000 I think what's problematic right now, especially politically with a 1:30:57.000 --> 1:31:01.240 lot of my peers that are my age that you 1:31:01.280 --> 1:31:05.920 would hope kind of step to the plate or at 1:31:06.000 --> 1:31:09.400 least live up to the idea of what I thought 1:31:09.439 --> 1:31:11.479 they were when I was listening to them at eighteen 1:31:11.560 --> 1:31:12.080 or nineteen. 1:31:13.040 --> 1:31:15.439 But I realized that, oh, well. 1:31:15.320 --> 1:31:20.280 None of them are going to stand on the political 1:31:20.360 --> 1:31:24.799 rights side of history because that would ruin their brand. 1:31:25.760 --> 1:31:28.320 So I know, on my side of the fence, there's 1:31:28.360 --> 1:31:32.360 a lot of cats that are thinking of brand preservation, Like, 1:31:32.439 --> 1:31:36.240 what does it look like me complying with the system 1:31:36.240 --> 1:31:41.360 that I railed against for thirty years? And I always wondered, like, well, 1:31:41.360 --> 1:31:44.360 do you ever imagine, like thirty years forty years ago, 1:31:44.479 --> 1:31:49.639 when you guys released records that you inspired a twenty 1:31:49.680 --> 1:31:52.439 year old college students to get politically active and then 1:31:52.520 --> 1:31:58.200 become the answer to you know, the problem that faced 1:31:58.280 --> 1:32:01.360 us in the eighties and nineties. So I'll ask you 1:32:02.479 --> 1:32:05.000 if there's no more, And of course I know there's 1:32:05.040 --> 1:32:08.719 plenty of struggle. We're in the this is the fight 1:32:08.760 --> 1:32:13.480 for our life struggle. Yeah, but oftentimes do you imagine 1:32:14.160 --> 1:32:17.120 I don't think it's naive. I do believe that we 1:32:17.320 --> 1:32:24.400 are in a paradigm shift and a lot of the 1:32:24.439 --> 1:32:31.200 air quote fuc shitttery that we're experiencing right now is 1:32:31.400 --> 1:32:35.520 kind of a dying spirit grasping. 1:32:36.200 --> 1:32:38.400 Yeah, they're hanging, They're hanging off of the mountain by 1:32:38.439 --> 1:32:43.200 their fingernails, all this completely crazy stuff, and you have 1:32:43.280 --> 1:32:45.240 to believe that to have any hope. And it's like 1:32:45.280 --> 1:32:46.320 we just have to step on them. 1:32:46.360 --> 1:32:50.439 Oh yeah, I'm a serial manifesto. I have no worries. 1:32:50.520 --> 1:32:53.040 I sleep at night because I know what's going to happen, 1:32:53.800 --> 1:32:57.000 and it's up to us. Those who are gen X, 1:32:58.000 --> 1:33:01.000 those boom are still alive to adjust to it, and 1:33:01.040 --> 1:33:03.799 you're seeing a lot of people not wanting to adjust 1:33:03.840 --> 1:33:07.680 to where we are now in twenty twenty four. But 1:33:08.240 --> 1:33:11.000 for you, do you imagine that there will be a 1:33:11.080 --> 1:33:16.360 day where there will be no more struggle, where righteous 1:33:16.400 --> 1:33:26.280 women are taking the lead and toxic mail energy has eroded? Like, 1:33:26.360 --> 1:33:31.080 do you imagine a future in which it's ideal for you? 1:33:31.640 --> 1:33:33.200 I live in that future because I. 1:33:33.400 --> 1:33:34.280 That's how you survive. 1:33:34.640 --> 1:33:38.640 Yeah, And like I surround myself with positive people a 1:33:38.640 --> 1:33:40.960 lot of times when I experienced sexism now which idea, 1:33:41.000 --> 1:33:42.439 I actually just went through a thing where I had 1:33:42.439 --> 1:33:47.200 to fire somebody, but it was like I was so 1:33:47.360 --> 1:33:50.519 shocked by the there's certain men you just cannot work 1:33:50.520 --> 1:33:56.000 with women, and it's just really wild when you come 1:33:56.080 --> 1:33:57.920 en counter with them. It's sort of like if somebody 1:33:57.920 --> 1:34:02.000 comes to do work at at the house and they're like, 1:34:02.520 --> 1:34:03.880 is the man of the house at home? 1:34:03.960 --> 1:34:05.960 You know, like cas to your husband? 1:34:06.040 --> 1:34:07.960 Yeah, yeah, like that kind of thing, or like people 1:34:08.000 --> 1:34:10.160 who will only talk to Adam and they don't look 1:34:10.160 --> 1:34:12.400 at me, which I actually find totally gratifying because I 1:34:12.520 --> 1:34:14.439 like to just be able. It means I can watch, 1:34:15.200 --> 1:34:17.160 you know, and I'm kind of like I like to observe, 1:34:17.280 --> 1:34:20.360 So I'm fine with that in a way, although you know, 1:34:20.400 --> 1:34:25.160 it can be very annoying. But in my head, I'm 1:34:25.240 --> 1:34:30.760 around all these amazing creative people who that's not the thing. 1:34:30.840 --> 1:34:32.400 Like they're not asking me what it's like to be 1:34:32.400 --> 1:34:34.040 a woman in a band, you know, they don't give 1:34:34.080 --> 1:34:36.559 a shit, Like they're just like, we're making art and 1:34:36.600 --> 1:34:39.480 we're doing this stuff and we're going to you know, 1:34:39.800 --> 1:34:42.760 turn each other on to great art and like do 1:34:42.840 --> 1:34:45.240 all that. So it's like I know what's going I 1:34:45.280 --> 1:34:48.200 know what's going on in the world. I mean not like, 1:34:48.560 --> 1:34:52.000 you know, I'm not a scholar on politics or anything, 1:34:52.000 --> 1:34:55.040 but like I deeply care about what's going on in 1:34:55.120 --> 1:34:57.920 the world and it is really really awful right now 1:34:57.960 --> 1:34:59.720 and I can't separate myself from that. But at the 1:34:59.720 --> 1:35:02.400 same time time in my day to day, when I 1:35:02.479 --> 1:35:04.840 encounter stuff like, you know, really bad sexism, I don't 1:35:04.840 --> 1:35:08.840 even understand what's happening anymore. Like I'm just like, I 1:35:08.840 --> 1:35:12.120 don't even you are you a dinosaur from Jurassic Park? 1:35:12.200 --> 1:35:14.200 Like I don't know what you're talking about. Like it's 1:35:14.200 --> 1:35:17.439 so confusing when it happens, and I think it's it's 1:35:17.520 --> 1:35:20.960 really weird when I've managed to create a tight knit 1:35:21.000 --> 1:35:23.760 group of people who like I just we're not sitting 1:35:23.800 --> 1:35:27.960 around talking about you know, if we're fuckable, you know 1:35:27.920 --> 1:35:28.439 what I mean? 1:35:28.600 --> 1:35:30.240 Like got it? 1:35:30.240 --> 1:35:32.960 It's just like I don't. I just try to live 1:35:33.000 --> 1:35:37.439 in my own fantasy land of like what can be possible. 1:35:37.520 --> 1:35:39.280 And I know from my groups of friends and from 1:35:39.280 --> 1:35:42.280 people that I meet on tour that like that world 1:35:42.360 --> 1:35:45.280 is possible. I believe in that world. But right now, 1:35:45.320 --> 1:35:47.320 we don't live in a post racial society. We don't 1:35:47.320 --> 1:35:50.080 live in a post sexist society. We don't live And 1:35:50.479 --> 1:35:52.519 that's the thing that's really frustrating that a lot of people, 1:35:52.800 --> 1:35:55.320 there's a really big difference from creating something that you 1:35:55.360 --> 1:35:59.280 can survive within, like an artistic community that you're thriving 1:35:59.320 --> 1:36:02.840 and being challenged and pretending that stuff doesn't exist, and 1:36:02.840 --> 1:36:05.000 putting your head in the sand, do you know what 1:36:05.000 --> 1:36:06.840 I mean? Like, like you have to be able to 1:36:06.920 --> 1:36:10.000 kind of traverse between those two different things where you're 1:36:10.040 --> 1:36:12.439 like really yourself as an individual and really a part 1:36:12.439 --> 1:36:14.519 of a community, and the part of you is an 1:36:14.560 --> 1:36:17.400 individual feeds a community, and the community feeds the part 1:36:17.400 --> 1:36:20.160 of youth that's an individual as opposed to seeing it 1:36:20.200 --> 1:36:23.400 as a either or you know, either I'm a total 1:36:23.439 --> 1:36:26.360 hedonistic like you know, Eric Clapton, like jacking off on 1:36:26.400 --> 1:36:30.519 the guitar, or I'm strictly a political activist. It's like 1:36:30.600 --> 1:36:33.320 those things aren't separate in my life anymore. They used 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:35.160 to be, and that caused me a lot of strife. 1:36:35.360 --> 1:36:38.240 So anytime that I was enjoying it was like, oh, 1:36:38.280 --> 1:36:40.519 somebody's going to and I think it's also psychological. I 1:36:40.520 --> 1:36:42.800 felt like somebody's gonna take this away from me, you know, 1:36:42.880 --> 1:36:45.040 I think it's fascinating. Like writing the book that I 1:36:45.360 --> 1:36:48.040 learned psychological, I was like, you know, it's really funny 1:36:48.280 --> 1:36:50.280 is that I grew up in a family like my 1:36:50.360 --> 1:36:52.920 dad is like it was like very much a person 1:36:52.960 --> 1:36:55.120 who would just when you were right on the top 1:36:55.160 --> 1:36:56.720 of the mountain, he'd like, knock you off, you know 1:36:56.760 --> 1:36:58.559 what I mean. It's like, wait till you're like really 1:36:58.640 --> 1:37:00.320 in a positive place. And so every time I'm in 1:37:00.360 --> 1:37:02.640 a positive place in my life, I'm waiting for to 1:37:02.640 --> 1:37:05.000 get knocked off, right, I'm waiting for the rug to 1:37:05.000 --> 1:37:08.360 get pulled out from sure, I mean, and I but 1:37:08.439 --> 1:37:10.400 I see it now. I see it. I'm like, I'm 1:37:10.479 --> 1:37:13.040 I'm just starting like something great happens to me, and 1:37:13.040 --> 1:37:15.599 I'm like, oh, I'm just waiting for the backlash, which 1:37:15.640 --> 1:37:18.160 is normal awesome, or I'm just waiting for the drug 1:37:18.200 --> 1:37:19.960 to get pulled out from under me and then but 1:37:20.080 --> 1:37:21.559 now I can sit with it and be like, I 1:37:21.600 --> 1:37:24.880 know where that comes from. That comes from growing up 1:37:25.040 --> 1:37:28.240 in this situation. It comes from I start getting attention 1:37:28.840 --> 1:37:32.600 and then my community turns on me. Someone punches me 1:37:32.600 --> 1:37:35.120 in the face and threatens me. You know, people are 1:37:35.160 --> 1:37:37.479 like being like really weird, and I'm super confused. I'm 1:37:37.479 --> 1:37:41.920 watching friends die Like I associated being myself and really 1:37:41.920 --> 1:37:46.040 being large with like getting in trouble, And now I'm 1:37:46.080 --> 1:37:48.680 able to just do that and be like, you know what, 1:37:48.760 --> 1:37:52.360 I can't control other people's behavior. If I'm gonna, you know, 1:37:52.880 --> 1:37:54.599 really be putting out my art the way I want 1:37:54.600 --> 1:37:56.160 to and be doing the things and saying the things 1:37:56.160 --> 1:37:57.479 that I want to, and people are going to come 1:37:57.520 --> 1:37:59.640 after me, so be it. What am I going to 1:37:59.720 --> 1:38:02.320 I can't control other people's behavior anymore, So I'm not 1:38:02.360 --> 1:38:05.360 going to like shrink myself to avoid the rug getting 1:38:05.400 --> 1:38:07.479 pulled out from under me. Go ahead, try to pull 1:38:07.479 --> 1:38:08.920 the rug out from under me. I dare you. 1:38:13.960 --> 1:38:15.520 I have three questions left. 1:38:15.840 --> 1:38:17.640 If you mean the question, I want to talk to 1:38:17.680 --> 1:38:20.760 you about music. I am. We're going to come over 1:38:20.800 --> 1:38:22.640 to your apartment and like sit outside and just like 1:38:22.680 --> 1:38:23.960 sit on your stupid be. 1:38:24.000 --> 1:38:27.920 Like, dude, come back here, talk to me about Tony DeFranco. 1:38:28.920 --> 1:38:29.760 I welcome it. 1:38:31.479 --> 1:38:33.320 If you were given the power to change one thing 1:38:35.120 --> 1:38:37.080 from your past, what would you change? 1:38:38.200 --> 1:38:40.440 I mean, I should just give you the honest answer instead. 1:38:40.120 --> 1:38:43.960 Of like, what's the honest answer? 1:38:44.320 --> 1:38:46.000 See, if I think about it, it's going to be 1:38:46.040 --> 1:38:47.920 something really deep. But the first thing that comes to 1:38:47.960 --> 1:38:54.360 mind is I would have taken more time recording the 1:38:54.400 --> 1:38:58.360 Bikini Hill Records, the first two Bikini Hill records, because 1:38:59.760 --> 1:39:03.240 the idea was like, go in and play like it's 1:39:03.280 --> 1:39:07.320 a live show. Don't put stuff on your voice, because 1:39:07.360 --> 1:39:11.479 that's like putting panteos over your hairy legs or something, 1:39:11.520 --> 1:39:13.120 you know what I mean? Like like that, I was 1:39:13.160 --> 1:39:15.400 like trying to be like so raw that other people 1:39:15.400 --> 1:39:18.040 could relate to it. And it's not that I still 1:39:18.080 --> 1:39:21.400 don't keep like mistakes when they're cool in stuff that 1:39:21.439 --> 1:39:24.800 I put out, but it's like I wish we would 1:39:24.840 --> 1:39:27.880 have taken a little more time because performing those songs 1:39:27.920 --> 1:39:30.800 live and then knowing what they sound like on record, 1:39:30.840 --> 1:39:32.680 Like I can't even listen to them because they're just 1:39:32.720 --> 1:39:35.559 recorded so poorly, especially this one record that was recorded 1:39:35.600 --> 1:39:38.519 on four truck on a tape that somebody else had 1:39:38.600 --> 1:39:41.120 used so you could hear the other band in the band. 1:39:42.040 --> 1:39:44.479 That's so real to me, man, And. 1:39:44.960 --> 1:39:49.400 Like literally we spent seventeen dollars recording this record. It 1:39:49.439 --> 1:39:51.800 was a split record with Huggy Bear, and their side 1:39:51.840 --> 1:39:55.120 sounds fantastic and our side sounds like shit. And like, 1:39:55.439 --> 1:39:57.840 if I could go back and redo those because there's 1:39:57.840 --> 1:39:59.920 all these great songs, some Jigsaw youth I really loved 1:40:00.000 --> 1:40:03.479 performing live, and there's not a great recorded version of it, 1:40:04.280 --> 1:40:06.559 and so like I can't. I don't want to go 1:40:06.600 --> 1:40:09.080 back in the studio and record it. Now that's weird. 1:40:09.720 --> 1:40:12.120 I can't, like, you know, change history. And those records 1:40:12.120 --> 1:40:13.920 sound the way they sound because of the time and 1:40:14.000 --> 1:40:16.799 because of you know, we didn't have any money and whatever. 1:40:17.160 --> 1:40:20.439 But I didn't understand yet that the recording process was 1:40:20.520 --> 1:40:25.200 a different art than live. I was all about the 1:40:25.200 --> 1:40:27.040 live show to the point of like, let's capture the 1:40:27.040 --> 1:40:30.400 live show, like a snapshot, like you know, Henry Braisson, 1:40:30.520 --> 1:40:32.439 Like on the street they taking snapshots of people, like 1:40:32.479 --> 1:40:35.439 I was trying to like get a snapshot. But then 1:40:35.479 --> 1:40:37.600 when I'd learned about the art of recording and I 1:40:37.600 --> 1:40:39.479 got in got my first four track and then my 1:40:39.479 --> 1:40:45.280 first aid track, I was like, oh, this is a 1:40:45.600 --> 1:40:47.240 you know, it's the difference between an essay and a 1:40:47.280 --> 1:40:52.040 play or you know, it's a different thing. And I 1:40:52.120 --> 1:40:56.880 wasn't exploiting what I could do with those songs on 1:40:56.920 --> 1:40:59.200 the record, and so I would go back. I wish 1:40:59.240 --> 1:41:03.840 I had said something really smart about Oh. 1:41:03.640 --> 1:41:06.439 That was honest. Yeah, I except that that's. 1:41:06.280 --> 1:41:09.680 Really that's something that that that bugs me, like you 1:41:09.680 --> 1:41:10.439 know once a week. 1:41:11.400 --> 1:41:19.200 Okay, five non greatest hits, five non box set, five 1:41:19.439 --> 1:41:21.599 non live albums. 1:41:21.800 --> 1:41:24.640 Oh, I'm so bad at lists because I have like 1:41:24.880 --> 1:41:27.439 brain stuff. So I don't know if I can do it. 1:41:27.760 --> 1:41:31.160 Don't say that, just say it. See I used to 1:41:31.160 --> 1:41:34.720 do the House on fire. You can only say five records, 1:41:34.920 --> 1:41:37.479 but it can't be box set, it can't be live, 1:41:37.760 --> 1:41:42.559 and it can't be greatest hits, five albums that are 1:41:42.640 --> 1:41:45.160 in your lifetime capsule. 1:41:45.920 --> 1:41:47.719 I just say an artist because I can never remember 1:41:47.760 --> 1:41:52.080 which album is the one that I really like everything. Okay, 1:41:52.120 --> 1:41:57.400 it would probably be Sharda I probably, or. 1:41:58.360 --> 1:42:00.920 The blue album Stronger and Pride. 1:42:00.800 --> 1:42:03.800 Or the onely Smooth Operator on it. 1:42:04.600 --> 1:42:08.400 Her first debut, the first one did they pronounced? Okay, 1:42:08.400 --> 1:42:10.960 that's number one. 1:42:11.720 --> 1:42:13.120 Yeah. When I was in high school, I was like, 1:42:13.320 --> 1:42:15.040 my mom went to see her and I was like, 1:42:15.080 --> 1:42:19.719 are you going to see Sade? Say so, yeah, probably 1:42:20.280 --> 1:42:21.960 Chardy is somebody who I I just come back to 1:42:22.080 --> 1:42:26.400 over and over and over. The other would be yeas 1:42:26.960 --> 1:42:34.960 upstairs at Eric's, Yeah as you because they had to 1:42:35.040 --> 1:42:37.680 change their name because there's another band, so they were 1:42:38.160 --> 1:42:40.519 Yazdoo and then they were like, yeahs uk or something. 1:42:40.880 --> 1:42:42.240 I got three. 1:42:42.320 --> 1:42:44.280 So that I'm just trying to think of, Like what 1:42:44.400 --> 1:42:46.400 I actually listened listen to? 1:42:46.640 --> 1:42:50.640 Yes, not the impressive the impressed US list? What you 1:42:50.840 --> 1:42:53.080 actually listened to clinic? 1:42:54.200 --> 1:42:56.880 What is the name of the album? It's like, because 1:42:56.920 --> 1:42:59.200 I have all my stuff on shuffle, so I'm never 1:42:59.240 --> 1:43:01.680 sure what that is anymore. The blue album with the 1:43:01.760 --> 1:43:02.679 yellow on it. 1:43:02.720 --> 1:43:06.040 With distortions on it. Oh, the blue album it's blue 1:43:06.080 --> 1:43:07.400 and yellow, not. 1:43:07.320 --> 1:43:09.880 Fantasy that was titled I literally do have like a 1:43:10.960 --> 1:43:11.679 memory problem. 1:43:11.760 --> 1:43:16.720 So Fantasy Island. I've see clinic Fantasy Island. It's blue 1:43:16.760 --> 1:43:17.519 and yellow, but. 1:43:17.640 --> 1:43:19.719 Yeah, okay, that's it. I didn't know it's called fancy Island. 1:43:19.720 --> 1:43:23.240 I had no idea, Okay, that clinic Fanacy Island. Five 1:43:24.120 --> 1:43:28.160 Isaac Cay's Live at the Sierra Sarah. 1:43:29.439 --> 1:43:33.080 Yeah, his uh Ain't No Sunshine is a great cover well, 1:43:33.080 --> 1:43:33.360 and the. 1:43:33.320 --> 1:43:36.120 Whole the I think about the lead in to use 1:43:36.200 --> 1:43:40.920 Me all the time. Yeah, because it's that thing of 1:43:40.960 --> 1:43:45.479 where you're turning something that is supposedly really negative into 1:43:45.479 --> 1:43:47.280 something where he's like, if you're going to use me, 1:43:47.400 --> 1:43:51.000 then so be it, right, And I think about that 1:43:51.080 --> 1:43:52.920 in like the weirdest times of like when I get 1:43:53.320 --> 1:43:55.320 asked to be like the woman on the panel at 1:43:55.360 --> 1:43:58.920 the last minute, right and I'm getting paid like half 1:43:59.080 --> 1:44:00.680 what the men are getting paid, and I'm like, if 1:44:00.720 --> 1:44:03.479 you are going to use me, so be it, as 1:44:03.520 --> 1:44:04.519 long as I get paid. 1:44:05.240 --> 1:44:06.760 Now, that's a classic album. I like it. 1:44:07.200 --> 1:44:08.720 So We're at what are Where are we at? 1:44:08.800 --> 1:44:09.280 That was five? 1:44:09.920 --> 1:44:13.439 Oh God, I could go on forever. But if I 1:44:13.479 --> 1:44:15.879 really was on a desert island, I would need Strawberry 1:44:15.880 --> 1:44:19.439 Shortcake Live at the Big Apple Disco to keep me laughing? 1:44:20.200 --> 1:44:20.759 You lovely? 1:44:20.800 --> 1:44:23.080 Where do you have you heard it? 1:44:23.680 --> 1:44:24.599 I've not heard it. 1:44:25.520 --> 1:44:26.519 I have two copies. 1:44:26.640 --> 1:44:29.799 Strawberry Shortcake made a disco record live at. 1:44:29.680 --> 1:44:32.479 The Big Apple Disco. There's a song called Strawberry SHORTCAKEE 1:44:32.520 --> 1:44:36.800 rap on it. I take this album deadly serious. I 1:44:36.840 --> 1:44:39.360 saw a thirteen year old girl acted out in front 1:44:39.400 --> 1:44:42.640 of me when I was really high, and it was 1:44:42.680 --> 1:44:44.960 one of the best experiences, one of the best after 1:44:45.160 --> 1:44:48.679 show experiences I've ever had. And then I just started 1:44:48.680 --> 1:44:51.759 buying it and every time I see it, I buy it. 1:44:51.760 --> 1:44:54.760 It's so good because like the story she comes from, 1:44:54.800 --> 1:44:57.439 like Strawberry Land to New York City and it's her 1:44:57.439 --> 1:45:00.559 whole story. And then there's this one song where she's 1:45:00.560 --> 1:45:04.599 clearly on PCP on a roof. So I'm just saying I. 1:45:04.520 --> 1:45:09.759 Didn't know her entire like catalog is on Spotify, Okay, great. 1:45:10.439 --> 1:45:12.920 I trolled her on Instagram. That's the only thing I 1:45:12.960 --> 1:45:15.840 do on Instagram is I troll the Strawberry Shortcake account. 1:45:16.160 --> 1:45:18.000 Like they're like, it's like her and her Berry friends. 1:45:18.040 --> 1:45:20.120 They're like riding a bike and they're like, we're riding 1:45:20.160 --> 1:45:22.280 into an empowered future for women, and I was like, 1:45:22.400 --> 1:45:24.400 just don't get pregnant in Texas, Strawberry. 1:45:24.960 --> 1:45:25.280 Nice. 1:45:25.600 --> 1:45:27.880 I'm an adult who's like trolling a car. I love 1:45:27.920 --> 1:45:30.719 the idea of cartoon characters, Like we used to sample 1:45:30.800 --> 1:45:32.360 a lot of stuff from I'm not going to say 1:45:32.360 --> 1:45:35.880 who it is, but from cartoons. Uh in one of 1:45:35.880 --> 1:45:37.640 my bands, and I was like, what are they going 1:45:37.680 --> 1:45:40.599 to do? Sue us? I would picture the cartoon character 1:45:40.720 --> 1:45:45.879 showing up in court. I'd bean like, gonna have deputy 1:45:45.920 --> 1:45:47.479 dogs going to show up and sue me. 1:45:48.360 --> 1:45:49.200 Oh, Trusky. 1:45:49.760 --> 1:45:54.559 The cartoons are litigious. Okay, you married the person that 1:45:55.520 --> 1:45:58.440 started his career making fun. 1:45:58.280 --> 1:45:59.639 Of I knew this was coming. 1:46:01.120 --> 1:46:05.639 You married university started his career making fun of a cake. Anyway, 1:46:06.439 --> 1:46:11.040 last question of everything that you've achieved, Like for you, 1:46:12.360 --> 1:46:16.520 what is the one thing that you're proudest to celebrate 1:46:16.920 --> 1:46:19.759 of what you've done with your life? 1:46:20.800 --> 1:46:23.439 I mean today, I'm pretty proud to know that, Like 1:46:23.840 --> 1:46:25.800 I had an effect on Rich, and then Rich had 1:46:25.800 --> 1:46:28.000 an effect on you, like I would have never in 1:46:28.000 --> 1:46:31.000 a million years guessed that like that I had any 1:46:31.080 --> 1:46:33.559 kind of effect of that on the roots. Like when 1:46:33.600 --> 1:46:35.599 I came to New York, oudam one of our most 1:46:35.680 --> 1:46:37.519 romantic dates that I'll remember for the rest of my 1:46:37.560 --> 1:46:39.160 life was when he took me to see you all 1:46:39.280 --> 1:46:41.880 in New York when I first moved there, and like 1:46:42.080 --> 1:46:45.000 we were like, I mean, I was only thirty, but 1:46:45.040 --> 1:46:48.559 we were like old people slow dancing in the back 1:46:48.680 --> 1:46:52.960 and it was like, you are so good live and 1:46:53.000 --> 1:46:56.400 I was just like it was the best show. And 1:46:56.479 --> 1:47:00.280 like to think that stuff I did had any kind 1:47:00.320 --> 1:47:03.559 of influence on you, and like I followed your career, 1:47:03.560 --> 1:47:07.160 like Summer Soul is like a huge movie in my life. 1:47:07.640 --> 1:47:09.200 You probably didn't see it, but of course I wrote 1:47:09.200 --> 1:47:12.280 you like a huge gushing you know, DM, like just like, 1:47:12.320 --> 1:47:14.840 oh my god, you know, like that footage I can 1:47:14.920 --> 1:47:18.120 watch that a million times is so great. And to 1:47:18.160 --> 1:47:21.040 see somebody who's like I hate branding, I hate the 1:47:21.040 --> 1:47:23.240 phrase using your platform, I hate all that stuff. But 1:47:23.280 --> 1:47:25.600 to see somebody who's able to still be like so 1:47:25.760 --> 1:47:31.040 vital and creative within this like hustle till you die world, 1:47:31.280 --> 1:47:35.880 it's it's really inspirational. So I think inspiring you at 1:47:35.920 --> 1:47:38.600 all and having any kind of bit to do with 1:47:39.320 --> 1:47:43.719 your creativity is kind of those stories that is that 1:47:43.800 --> 1:47:47.280 And like you know a girl who told me. I 1:47:47.320 --> 1:47:51.920 helped her get through you know, her pastor sexually assaulting 1:47:52.000 --> 1:47:55.240 art and that listening to you know, records that I 1:47:55.320 --> 1:47:58.400 was on and reading stuff that I I said in 1:47:58.400 --> 1:48:00.519 interviews made her tell our parents parents, and then her 1:48:00.560 --> 1:48:02.960 parents were really supportive. And then her parents came to 1:48:03.000 --> 1:48:05.040 the show with her and they all thanked me. That 1:48:05.200 --> 1:48:09.519 was a moment. Wow, you know, having a family, having 1:48:09.600 --> 1:48:11.960 a mom say thank you for being there for my daughter. 1:48:12.040 --> 1:48:13.719 I was there for her as much as I could, 1:48:14.000 --> 1:48:16.519 but you were there in this one little spot that 1:48:16.560 --> 1:48:20.720 I couldn't reach, and I was like a family And 1:48:21.200 --> 1:48:23.559 this isn't you know? This is like more modern times 1:48:23.600 --> 1:48:26.960 Like in the past few years. I never you know 1:48:27.000 --> 1:48:29.479 when when Bikini Kill first started, like crazy things happened, 1:48:29.560 --> 1:48:32.320 like a woman who worked at a juvenile detention center 1:48:32.600 --> 1:48:34.640 got all the juvie girls to come to one of 1:48:34.640 --> 1:48:37.479 our shows for a field trip. Like those were the 1:48:37.520 --> 1:48:39.799 kooky things that happened that I was like, this is amazing. 1:48:40.200 --> 1:48:43.680 But nowadays to have to see a family supporting a 1:48:43.800 --> 1:48:49.520 child who has experienced sexual assault is like really gratifying. 1:48:49.560 --> 1:48:51.200 It makes me feel like the world can change and 1:48:51.240 --> 1:48:52.479 can keep changing for the better. 1:48:54.040 --> 1:48:58.080 Kathleen I thank you for this long what would do conversation? 1:48:58.960 --> 1:49:00.760 I want to do one where reach just talk about 1:49:00.800 --> 1:49:03.559 records and talk about music. So I'm gonna I'm going 1:49:03.600 --> 1:49:05.640 to start a podcast and you're gonna be my first time, and. 1:49:05.640 --> 1:49:09.360 Then I'll be your first guest. I promise, I promise. No, 1:49:09.520 --> 1:49:10.360 thank you for doing this. 1:49:10.600 --> 1:49:13.960 Give your regards to Adam, who will be a future 1:49:13.960 --> 1:49:14.719 guest on the show. 1:49:15.680 --> 1:49:17.200 He has lets to say about em. 1:49:18.360 --> 1:49:20.479 And I know, I was like, wow, he puts you 1:49:20.560 --> 1:49:23.160 on the MC sid from and he. 1:49:23.320 --> 1:49:25.160 I had that record and he was like, oh my god, 1:49:25.280 --> 1:49:27.040 how do you have this record? And I was like, 1:49:27.240 --> 1:49:29.639 because I like the cover. He's so cute on the cover. 1:49:32.040 --> 1:49:34.759 But apparently his DJ can eat ten eggs at one sitting, 1:49:35.080 --> 1:49:41.000 so you weirdos. I know whatever. We'll hang out some time. 1:49:41.080 --> 1:49:42.760 But thank you so much for having me on. It's 1:49:42.920 --> 1:49:45.400 joy and I really appreciate it and it's just a 1:49:45.400 --> 1:49:46.400 fun way to spend a day. 1:49:46.880 --> 1:49:47.479 Thank you. 1:49:47.520 --> 1:49:51.599 And on beef of the q S Bam Layah, I'm paid, 1:49:51.640 --> 1:49:55.679 Bill and Sugar Steve and shout out to you written Jake, 1:49:56.080 --> 1:49:58.559 this quest love and we'll see you on the next goroground. 1:49:58.800 --> 1:50:02.839 Thank you, Thank you for listening to the Quest Love Supreme, 1:50:03.200 --> 1:50:08.120 hosted by Amir quest Love Thompson, Liah Saint Clair, Sugar, 1:50:08.200 --> 1:50:13.799 Steve Mandel, and unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are America 1:50:13.840 --> 1:50:18.479 Quest Love Thompson, Sean ch and Brian Calhoun. Produced by 1:50:19.040 --> 1:50:24.920 Brittany Benjamin Cousin, Jake Payne and Liah Saint Clair. Edited 1:50:24.960 --> 1:50:29.080 by Alex Conway. Produced by iHeart by Noel Brown. 1:50:36.920 --> 1:50:44.360 West Love Supreme is a production of Iheartened Radio. For 1:50:44.479 --> 1:50:47.599 more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 1:50:47.800 --> 1:50:51.160 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.