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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 1: I'm here of this Quest Love.

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Speaker 2: You know, ever since that Willow episode, I gotta say,

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of liking this more intimate one on one thing.

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Speaker 2: Nothing against the Supreme fan, but you know, these are

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Speaker 2: kind of fun for me, and this one especially holds dear.

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Speaker 2: I will basically say that this conversation is probably thirty

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Speaker 2: years overdue. I'm almost certain that our Yesterday doesn't even

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Speaker 2: know the silent impact she's had on my entire organization.

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Speaker 1: She'll find out right now, Right Surprises.

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Speaker 2: The Bell Right surprise as a bell Our guest is legendary,

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Speaker 2: of course, name it bikini Kill. Latigue of the Julie

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Speaker 2: Willing pioneered the Riot Girl movement. Magazine publisher, poet, fan

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Speaker 2: of cheesy seventies variety shows like Myself, spouse of my

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Speaker 2: very first online scrabble rival, New York Times bestselling author

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Speaker 2: of the memoir Rebel Girl, My life as a feminist punk.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you are a fan of the show or.

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Speaker 2: You're familiar with my history, she probably doesn't know it,

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Speaker 2: but she was the seed that helped start the Black

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Speaker 2: Lily movement that I guess I'm famous for or associated with.

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Speaker 2: From my side of the fence, What can I say?

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Speaker 2: This is long overdue, Kathleen Hannah, thank you for talking

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Speaker 2: to me. I know your husband's going to be upset

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Speaker 2: because I know he feels like I'm having everyone but

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Speaker 2: him on the show. He will get his turn. He

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Speaker 2: will get his turn. How are you today.

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Speaker 3: I'm good. I'm so thrilled to be talking to you.

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Speaker 3: It does feel like a thousand years overdue. Like I

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Speaker 3: feel like you're like Superman and we're always you know,

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Speaker 3: you're like Clark kentying out on me, Like I'm like

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Speaker 3: where he was just here, Like I feel like we've

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Speaker 3: had that for like the past thirty years.

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Speaker 2: I lived a life where I used my work and

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Speaker 2: my occupation to avoid life.

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Speaker 1: And oh really.

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Speaker 3: Is that? How come You've like done like three thousand

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Speaker 3: things and you're like the total like you know, renaissance

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Speaker 3: man goal for every other artist.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, on paper, it's nice, but.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've gone through uh kind of a life

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Speaker 2: transformation in the last three years where I now know

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Speaker 2: the power of no and vacation and you know, make

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Speaker 2: time with my girlfriend, and I think date night, you know,

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Speaker 2: game night like things that have nothing to do with working,

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Speaker 2: which you know is nothing but distract So let me

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Speaker 2: just let you know. And you know, I work on

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Speaker 2: a talk show, and oftentimes I know that, especially when

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Speaker 2: guests write books or memoirs, I'm almost certain that they

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Speaker 2: are under the impression that the person interviewing them has

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Speaker 2: not read the entire piece or the entire book. Usually

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Speaker 2: like a producer and an assistant will do such a thing.

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Speaker 1: This is absolutely not the case.

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Speaker 2: I probably finished your book in a record like six

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Speaker 2: days and was rather surprised at how parallel our journey

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Speaker 2: from here to there sort of ran. There are a

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Speaker 2: lot of times in the book in which I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh wow. At times, a person thinks that they go

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Speaker 2: through something alone, and I was one of those former

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Speaker 2: people pleasers that sort of made career decisions based on

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Speaker 2: the perception of other people or their approval. You know,

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Speaker 2: what happens if we signed this label? Oh god, what

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Speaker 2: happens if I do this commercial? What happens if I'm

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Speaker 2: seeing with this particular You know, I actually like the

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Speaker 2: work of Blah Blah Blah, who's massively popular, but I

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Speaker 2: can't be seen with them in public cause people think

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Speaker 2: I'm alf you know. Yeah, every aspect of your story

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Speaker 2: really really impressed me, which is weird because I mean,

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about it so much, but I

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Speaker 2: also don't want to alert it for your audience that

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Speaker 2: hasn't read it yet or you know, make this the

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Speaker 2: paraphrase version of it. So I'll figure out ways to

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Speaker 2: ask you specific questions. But I you know, I want

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Speaker 2: to start off this episode by letting our audience know

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Speaker 2: that this this book's a must.

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Speaker 1: Read, an absolute must read. I'll start by asking you

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Speaker 1: what is the process.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm a person that's written nine books, but even

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Speaker 2: in writing those nine books, I.

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Speaker 3: Realized it's like just nuts.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, no, no, I'm gonna tell you. Well, the thing

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Speaker 2: is is that I journal kind of to keep my sanity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know me too. I journal every day.

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Speaker 2: Right, and then now that their social media, like oftentimes,

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Speaker 2: I'll overspill in a post, and if I do it

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Speaker 2: too much, then yeah, my publisher is gonna call and

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Speaker 2: be like, hey, dog, can you not give the milk

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Speaker 2: away for free? Like all that you did in the

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Speaker 2: last three posts could been in the book, And usually

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Speaker 2: that's the point where they're telling me, like, channel that

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Speaker 2: energy into your contract fulfillment instead of giving it away

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Speaker 2: on Instagram. And one of the last things that my

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Speaker 2: ex told me was, you know, I can't wait for

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Speaker 2: the day in which you write your real first book.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, I got nine already, Like

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Speaker 1: what else can I write about?

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Speaker 3: Ouch?

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Speaker 2: And she said, come on, now that she's like writing

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Speaker 2: about records and breakbeats and you know art, that's your distraction.

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Speaker 2: You know when you're going to write the real book.

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Speaker 2: So I'll ask you, when.

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Speaker 3: Am I going to write the real book?

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Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, my god, no. But I want

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Speaker 1: to know.

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Speaker 3: If there's another real book behind that real book, it's

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Speaker 3: going to be really scary. It's like a horror movie.

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Speaker 3: I'll just make a horror movie.

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Speaker 2: So there's two books I've read this year that were memoirs,

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Speaker 2: musical memoirs. One of them nicely danced around specifics to

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Speaker 2: sort of protect relationships or maintain them. Yours was very

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Speaker 2: blatant and very honest on how you felt about specific people.

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Speaker 2: What is the first step in realizing that you're going

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Speaker 2: to overspill and share with us your life and.

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Speaker 1: How does that affect the people that you write about?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I never thought about it. I just sat down

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Speaker 3: and wrote. I really just sat down and wrote and

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Speaker 3: wrote and wrote. It was really for me. I didn't

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Speaker 3: think about an audience at all, Like when I first

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Speaker 3: started writing, which was like, you know, years ago, and

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Speaker 3: I knew it was a book, Like I wrote the

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Speaker 3: introduction like ten years ago and then ended up I

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Speaker 3: changed it all, of course, but I was just sort

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Speaker 3: of writing it a little bit, and I didn't have

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Speaker 3: a publisher or whatever. And then finally I was like,

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Speaker 3: I just need to do this to get to the

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Speaker 3: next stage of my life, you know how Like there's

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Speaker 3: different like things that you've made that you're known by,

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Speaker 3: Like you know, people walk up to you on the

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Speaker 3: street and they're like, you know, this is the thing,

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Speaker 3: and it's annoying because you're like, I don't want to

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Speaker 3: talk about that. Actually, my real love is directing, or

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Speaker 3: my real love is you know what I mean. It's

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Speaker 3: like you get known as you know, if you're in

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Speaker 3: a commercial and someone's like you were in that VW

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Speaker 3: commercial for the rest of your life, and it's like

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Speaker 3: I was sort of like really trapped in this, like

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Speaker 3: riot girl thing and like the like you wrote the

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Speaker 3: smell saxteen Spirit line or you know other like weird

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Speaker 3: mini scandals I was involved in, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I just I don't want to like not

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Speaker 3: talk about that anymore. And part of that is me

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Speaker 3: getting over stuff that I never dealt with, and so

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Speaker 3: I really kind of wrote it just to get it

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Speaker 3: all out on the page, and I wasn't I knew

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Speaker 3: that I got to edit it later. You know, I'm

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Speaker 3: an adult. I've done like a lot of projects, so

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Speaker 3: like I know, I'm not writing this and everybody's going

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Speaker 3: to see it, and having the same confidence that I

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Speaker 3: had with it that I have with my journal, where

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Speaker 3: it's like no one's going to read this, so I

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Speaker 3: can write whatever I want. And I had fun with it.

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Speaker 3: I was like I would think of a title like

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Speaker 3: Benjamin Franklin's Glasses and then you know, you have like

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Speaker 3: catchphrases in your life that you used to talk to

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Speaker 3: your friends with, where like for me, like the smells

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Speaker 3: Like teen Spirit story, which is like I wrote Kurt

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Speaker 3: smells like teen Spirit on his wall and then he

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Speaker 3: used as a song Like people have asked me about

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Speaker 3: that a lot right, and so it's I started calling

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Speaker 3: it the you know smells like Benjamin Franklin's glasses, and

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Speaker 3: I would be like, it's like I found Benjamin Franklin's

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Speaker 3: glasses in the trash. And everybody's like, ooh, there's the

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Speaker 3: girl who found Benjamin Franklin's you know glasses in the trash.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm actually like a feminist artist

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Speaker 3: who's been working for thirty five years and like, I

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Speaker 3: have a lot of projects I'd love to talk to

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Speaker 3: you about, but they're like, but tell me about Benjamin

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Speaker 3: fraid Tight. So I didn't specifically actually write that story

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Speaker 3: like to you know, get people off my back or whatever.

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Speaker 3: But I did write everything, like everything, and then I

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Speaker 3: edited it later and that's when I thought about it

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Speaker 3: and I changed. I did change names. I changed almost

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Speaker 3: everybody's names unless they were in a positive light, and.

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Speaker 1: So they were okay, okay.

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Speaker 3: And there were people there's a particular person who who

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Speaker 3: is really messed up in the book and basically commits

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Speaker 3: crime and against me, and uh, I called that person

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Speaker 3: and said, I'm going to tell this story and you

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Speaker 3: need to get a therapist and be prepared. I changed

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Speaker 3: your name, but some of our friends are going to

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Speaker 3: know its you. So I want you to prepare yourself

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Speaker 3: and I don't want to make kill themselves, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean.

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Speaker 1: What was his reaction?

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Speaker 3: You know, I wish I wouldn't have called. That's all

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Speaker 3: I can say. I mean, he was like, he's like,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's your story and you can tell it.

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Speaker 3: I can't stop you. But it was like a big

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Speaker 3: pity party of things in his life that have gone

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Speaker 3: wrong and that you know, he had a whole new

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Speaker 3: story for why the bad incident happened. I was like,

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Speaker 3: I can't rewrite it. I already wrote it. So the

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Speaker 3: story answer is I didn't think about it. I got

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Speaker 3: my butt in the chair and I worked, and then

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Speaker 3: I would have these long periods of time where it

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Speaker 3: just worked and worked and worked and work, and then

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Speaker 3: I would have periods of time where I had a

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Speaker 3: nervous breakdown and went to crisis counseling, like for three

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Speaker 3: days a week, and then I would get back to work.

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Speaker 2: That's what I was going to ask you, because the

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Speaker 2: thing is is that unlike my movement, you know, the

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Speaker 2: Neo Soul movement, both of our movements, I would say

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Speaker 2: start with the the quote the idea of I'm certain

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Speaker 2: there was an actual Seattle movement or Northwest movement, but I,

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Speaker 2: you know, pretty much even I knew that we were

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Speaker 2: responding to the idea of what we thought the Seattle

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Speaker 2: movement was things move on and things subside and things.

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Speaker 1: Are in your rear view mirror.

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Speaker 2: How did it feel to have to unpack that period

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Speaker 2: in your life because like, literally chapter after chapter, it's

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Speaker 2: one thing to keep a band together, but it's a

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Speaker 2: whole other thing where you also have to keep yourself

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Speaker 2: together and protect your sanity, but also like organize a movement.

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Speaker 2: And I'll say the main difference between you and I,

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Speaker 2: luckily because of the development of the Internet. For me

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Speaker 2: at least ninety eight ninety nine, you know, I thought

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Speaker 2: it was all unique, like the only person in music

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Speaker 2: who allows this fan base to curse him out or

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Speaker 2: criticize them or say whatever the fuck they want to.

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Speaker 1: But that's contained in like this world on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: Whereas because you're eight years before you know, you're dealing

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Speaker 2: with newsletters and actual people coming you've essentially a pre

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Speaker 2: social media pioneer, although it wasn't invented yet because you

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Speaker 2: came out so damn early.

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Speaker 1: But all the things that happened, like.

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Speaker 2: The idea of people spewing out their opinions mid show,

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Speaker 2: you know, all the toxic energy you had to have.

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Speaker 2: You're juggling like four or five things at once, and

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Speaker 2: you're learning lessons. You're learning lessons about feminism, you're learning

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Speaker 2: lessons about yourself, you're learning lessons about your health.

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Speaker 1: Like all these things.

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Speaker 2: But to really put yourself in that position to go

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Speaker 2: back and revisit how taxing was that on you today,

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Speaker 2: to revisit those periods the.

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Speaker 3: Way I would say when I would get home from work,

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Speaker 3: because I would be like I just created my face

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Speaker 3: with the cheese grater for eight hours. That's what it

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Speaker 3: felt like. I felt. I really felt. I was like

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Speaker 3: my face was blank, I was dead behind the eyes,

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Speaker 3: like I was going in and out of being present.

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Speaker 3: Like it was awful. Awful, but so is crisis counseling.

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Speaker 3: I mean, And it was basically like I was. I

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Speaker 3: saved myself a lot of therapy because I actually sat

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Speaker 3: there and wrote down stuff I'd never even admitted to myself,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of it didn't There's three hundred extra pages.

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Speaker 3: It didn't end up in the book because it originally

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Speaker 3: was like Ryacral Hobbit and they were six entred pages long.

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Speaker 3: You might get it in a different form. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of the stories I cut

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Speaker 3: out were because they were more visual, Like it was

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Speaker 3: like that you had to be their kind of stories

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Speaker 3: where it's like, you know, we're on acid and we're

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Speaker 3: like running towards the sky in the park. Looks like

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Speaker 3: he's juggling. We're like, it's a clown. And then we

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Speaker 3: get close to him and we're like, oh shit, he

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Speaker 3: has not a ninja. It's a ninja turn around, like

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like it doesn't really work

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Speaker 3: in a book. Yeah, it was horrible, That's all I

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Speaker 3: can say. It was absolutely awful because it was like

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Speaker 3: excavating all of the stuff that you know. So I

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Speaker 3: had also suppressed and pushed down to keep going to

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Speaker 3: the next project, and that was part of the reason

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Speaker 3: why I worked so much, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't turn out like a kazilion albums, but

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Speaker 3: I was constantly doing projects. Even when I went through

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Speaker 3: a long period while I was pretty sick, I was

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Speaker 3: still like I wrote a pilot for a TV show

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Speaker 3: and you know, I could tell you twenty other things

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Speaker 3: that I did while I was still ill, because I

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Speaker 3: just had even if it was from bed, if I

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Speaker 3: had one good day, I had to use it. And

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Speaker 3: part of that is just like I grew up as

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Speaker 3: a kid and I felt like I was really a zombie,

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Speaker 3: Like I had to turn myself off to live in

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Speaker 3: my household. And so when I kind of came to

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Speaker 3: when I moved out when I was seventeen, I was

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Speaker 3: like living with vengeance. Like I was like, I have

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Speaker 3: to pack as much stuff into this one life as possible.

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Speaker 3: And also all the people you know that I've lost

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Speaker 3: along the way to like drugs, suicide aids, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's hard not to feel like you're living for them,

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Speaker 3: Like you know, every day you have a part of

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Speaker 3: their character with you that comes out and you're like,

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Speaker 3: I want to let that part of this person shying today,

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Speaker 3: you know, Like, but then that can become this weird

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Speaker 3: like toxically positive bullshit that then you have to contend

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Speaker 3: with that. So I just try to be in the

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Speaker 3: present as much as humanly possible, and writing the book,

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Speaker 3: the whole point of it was to get me into

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Speaker 3: the present. Was to be like I'm going to grapple

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Speaker 3: with this thirty five years or even you know, my

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Speaker 3: whole life. I'm going to grapple with that. And then

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be like I did that and now

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Speaker 3: here I am. And sure I still like have bad

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Speaker 3: memories of stuff or like whatever. But the thing that

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Speaker 3: was really kind of miraculous was I just realized how

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Speaker 3: much I lead with the negative, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: like a lot. It was so easy. It wasn't easy,

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Speaker 3: but it was like I went straight for the juggler.

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Speaker 3: Like I was like, I went to all the worst

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Speaker 3: moments in my life really quick. And part of it

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Speaker 3: was because I needed to. I really needed to do that.

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Speaker 3: But then I was like, whoa, no one's going to

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Speaker 3: read this. This is going to make people just throw up,

305
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Speaker 3: Like I got to put some joy in here. And

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Speaker 3: then I just started being like they started popping out

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Speaker 3: like you know, Jack in the Box style, like just

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Speaker 3: like joy joy joy, And I was like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: that guy in Minneapolis who like said I'll record your

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Speaker 3: band in my garage. I love what you're doing and

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Speaker 3: I and that made me feel like accepted in the

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Speaker 3: punk scene, you know what I mean, Like and it

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Speaker 3: was just a tiny gesture from this one person that

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Speaker 3: probably they didn't even I don't think that guy even

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Speaker 3: read the book or knows or remembers. Right, this guy

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Speaker 3: to Max said I'll record you, and you know, record

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Speaker 3: us and my first touring band, Vibachnevl, And it meant

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Speaker 3: the world to me, you know, remembering the first time

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Speaker 3: that I heard my vocals sounding good in headphones, Like literally,

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Speaker 3: as I was writing it, I was remembering it for

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Speaker 3: the first time, and I was sitting in that garage

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Speaker 3: listening to my voice with reaverb on it and going, oh,

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Speaker 3: my god, this is what I want to do forever. Right,

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Speaker 3: What a gift that I had to go through. I

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Speaker 3: had to kind of like, you know, dig myself out

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Speaker 3: with a shovel. I kept seeing in my head when

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Speaker 3: I was writing, like a kind of a newly dug grave,

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Speaker 3: like the soil and stuff, and I felt like my

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Speaker 3: hand was just sticking out and I had to reach it,

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Speaker 3: pull my hand and get me out of the grave.

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Speaker 3: And once I dug myself out, I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: look at all this awesome stuff that happened that maybe

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Speaker 3: you didn't fully appreciate in the moment. And I'm able

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Speaker 3: to appreciate it now, and in a lot of cases

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Speaker 3: I did. I had a great time, like I've had

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Speaker 3: an awesome life.

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Speaker 2: What I do want to know is, and I know

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Speaker 2: that your story is your story alone, but when you

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Speaker 2: decide to do the journey man of going in the

340
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Speaker 2: punk scene or the NDE rock scene, it's doing what

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00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 2: is perceived as you know, major labels and big business

342
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Speaker 2: and all that stuff. Is this typical of what one

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Speaker 2: can expect in terms of do it yourself? It's twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours a day. You might have a flat tire

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Speaker 2: the next day. You don't know whose couch you're going

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Speaker 2: to sleep on. Next week you might have bubblegum for dinner.

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Speaker 1: Like, is that still.

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Speaker 2: The modus operandi now in twenty twenty four is? Or

349
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Speaker 2: did you pioneer it so well that now life is

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Speaker 2: easier for those who are sort of in the space.

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Speaker 3: I think it's changed in that I don't really know

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Speaker 3: because I'm not twenty right now, so I have no idea.

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Speaker 3: But we do have really amazing opening bands that have

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Speaker 3: been playing for us on tour, and they'll sleep on

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Speaker 3: people's couches. I mean usually you know, they'll sleep in

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Speaker 3: like a Holiday and Express or a lat Quinta, but or.

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Speaker 1: Like would have been five Star does yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because they had their like a name brand, so

359
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Speaker 3: you could trust the towels. But no, it's like they

360
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Speaker 3: they'll sleep on to them. I think it's different, and

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Speaker 3: it's not every single band, but like this one amazing band,

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Speaker 3: Sweeping Promises, we were touring with, and it's like I

363
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Speaker 3: think it's also you know, post COVID whatever, people are

364
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 3: really excited to see each other and so right now

365
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 3: at this moment, it's a different touring experience where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited I get to go to Kansas because

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Speaker 3: I have these two people that I've been writing to

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Speaker 3: on the internet that are going to be there and

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Speaker 3: we're going to hook up and hang out afterwards. I

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Speaker 3: don't think, and I also think young bands are they're

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Speaker 3: still struggling, but they're struggling in different ways. I think

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Speaker 3: they struggle with the amount of stuff they have to

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Speaker 3: extra unpaid labor of content production on the web that

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Speaker 3: they have to do that like I'm lucky that I

375
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Speaker 3: don't have to. I mean, I have to do exact

376
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Speaker 3: a business and stuff, but like I'm just not that

377
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Speaker 3: interested in that, and like I try to figure out

378
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Speaker 3: I've actually learned from the younger generation, like the way

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Speaker 3: younger generation where they're like, I, you can't call me

380
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Speaker 3: after business hours, you can't, you know, And I'm like,

381
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Speaker 3: at first, I was like, yeah, I was like exactly.

382
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Speaker 3: I was like, I was like, how dare you have boundaries?

383
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Speaker 3: I have eighteen jobs on different index cards, and I

384
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Speaker 3: look up every day and which one would be funnest

385
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Speaker 3: to work on today, and I do that, but then

386
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Speaker 3: I do like the you know, crappy business financial part

387
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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, and then I was like, no,

388
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Speaker 3: that's awesome. I should have weekends free. It's so hard

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Speaker 3: for me to be like I'm gonna have weekends free,

390
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Speaker 3: you know. But now that the book's done, I have

391
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Speaker 3: to protect my weekends, you know. And I have to

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Speaker 3: say five o'clock, that's it. Sometimes it ends up being

393
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Speaker 3: seven o'clock. But I try to say five o'clock, that's it.

394
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Speaker 3: And then I try to leave it. And I have

395
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 3: a firm role and it's hard, it's really hard. But

396
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Speaker 3: like I wake up, I write my journal, I drink

397
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Speaker 3: my first coffee, and I sit in my really fancy

398
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Speaker 3: Eames chair that I bought myself. That is the most

399
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Speaker 3: comfortable chair I've ever seen it in my life. With

400
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Speaker 3: my feet up, and my dog gets on my lap.

401
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 3: My dog, who smells like a salm in factory, gets

402
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Speaker 3: on my lap, and I pet her, and I pat

403
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 3: her and pet her and pet her and drink my coffee.

404
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 3: And I don't look at the computer, and I don't

405
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,719
Speaker 3: look at the phone until I've written in my journal

406
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,959
Speaker 3: and I've pet my dog and she is asleep. So

407
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 3: I have to start my day like that with And

408
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 3: right now, we're in this apartment where I have a

409
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 3: view of the mountains, So I sit in my team

410
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 3: share and look at the mountains. Sometimes. Do I look

411
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 3: at Instagram in the morning, Sure, But like I just

412
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 3: actually took Instagram off my phone again because I'm just like,

413
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 3: you know, I got to be in real life. You know,

414
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Speaker 3: I miss pre Internet. I'm nostalgic for it. I'm also

415
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 3: really into all the cool things that you can do

416
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Speaker 3: on it, you know, right, I love that I can,

417
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Speaker 3: you know, keep up with what you're doing on the internet.

418
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Speaker 3: You know, Like I don't live in the same city

419
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Speaker 3: as you, don't hang out, but I can like look

420
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Speaker 3: and be like, oh, what pants is he you know

421
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: listening to and like I can like look them up

422
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 3: and you know, it's cool. But it's also like you

423
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 3: can get really addicted to. I mean, dud, this is

424
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 3: the most boring conversation. You have to cut this part

425
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Speaker 3: out because nobody wants to hear people talking about the Internet.

426
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Speaker 3: I'm so bored of it.

427
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Speaker 2: No, I mean, we're two humans having a normal Some

428
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 2: of my best episodes are just having a conversation. I

429
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 2: was going to ask twenty three year old you, like,

430
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Speaker 2: if someone were to come up, all right, let's go

431
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 2: to twenty five twenty.

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Speaker 3: Six, I remember what I was doing then.

433
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 1: Well, I mean just let's let's say ninety two, ninety three,

434
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: ninety four, around that period in Bikini Hill.

435
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, if someone a Jacob Marley figure from the future

436
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 2: where to tell you, Hey, I'm from twenty twenty four.

437
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 2: Let me show you a ten minute scissorle reel of

438
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 2: what life is going to be like in October of

439
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, like way past the year two thousand,

440
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 2: like in ninety three, ninety four, nineteen ninety nine was

441
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 2: the future?

442
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

443
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't even imagine like two thousand and five,

444
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 2: let alone twenty twenty five. What would your reaction be

445
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: if someone shows you in nineteen ninety three where we

446
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 2: are right now thirty years later.

447
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,239
Speaker 3: It's the whole world, not just my life. I think

448
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 3: if I was looking at if I was sharing my

449
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 3: life in particular, I would be so happy. I would

450
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 3: be like, oh my god. First of all, I'm alive.

451
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: Second of all, the irony that your life is the

452
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 2: best has ever been in the most turbulent times whatsoever.

453
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm finally getting like my sort of like

454
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 3: I have a feeling you at some point have made

455
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 3: a pie chart of what you do during the day

456
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 3: or what you do during the month, to be like

457
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 3: how much of my time is business stuff that I hate,

458
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 3: and how much of my time is creative stuff I love?

459
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: And how much of my time is like friendship time,

460
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 3: relationship time, dog time, like whatever your thing is.

461
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 2: I've hired a chief of staff. There's so much shame

462
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 2: in the title. When they're like, oh, you're assistant, I'm like, no,

463
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: I literally hired a chief of staff because I have

464
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: seven managers.

465
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I have a part of business, partner now

466
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 3: you know I have my bands have never had a manager.

467
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 3: We had a manager for like fifteen minutes and Latra.

468
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: You were the manager. I mean you did everything.

469
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 3: Kind of well, we split it up. I was I

470
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,239
Speaker 3: don't do all the work, but my band split up

471
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 3: all of the work. And it's like, you know, we

472
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 3: have a to do list and we each rip it

473
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 3: off into three parts, like I don't, I haven't. I

474
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 3: didn't have a manager until a year and a half ago,

475
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 3: and it's like more of a business partner. Yeah, who's

476
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: amazing and absolutely adore her, and I couldn't do I

477
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 3: couldn't be doing this stuff I'm doing right now and

478
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 3: have finished the book and done the book tour without

479
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 3: her at all. But like it took me to age

480
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 3: fifty five to set that up, Like that's how behind

481
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: the times I.

482
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: Am fifty two. We talked about boundaries and.

483
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: And I do feel pathetic that, like yes, even for

484
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 2: date night, for a movie night, for hangover my friends' night,

485
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 2: like everyone has to a ask amy.

486
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: You come to come by the studient?

487
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, let me ask my mommy first, which

488
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: is basically asking my person show me the pie chart,

489
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: Like where can we fit this in, like yeah, but

490
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: I'm also dead serious about boundaries, and the amount of

491
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 2: nos I've given this year is the most knows I've

492
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 2: ever given in my life.

493
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: I did a year of no around ninety two when

494
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: Bikini Kill first started getting all of this attention, and

495
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 3: I was like, I had this extreme guilt because I

496
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 3: was like, you know, from this kind of taking it

497
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 3: feminist community and the whole idea is no, you know,

498
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 3: anti hierarchy, and also in the punk scene, anti hierarchy.

499
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 3: And I worked behind the scenes like long before I

500
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 3: was ever in a band, like I didn't see myself.

501
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 3: I wanted to be a singer, but I didn't really

502
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 3: think it was possible that i'd be in a band

503
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 3: because I just always dated people in bands. It was

504
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 3: best friends with people in bands, but it just didn't

505
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 3: seem possible. And so I was always like setting up

506
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: shows and doing stuff, you know, the rape relief shelter

507
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 3: and doing you know, art shows and you know, running

508
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 3: out random warehouses and putting on doing projects. And then

509
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: when I started doing them, it just rolled and rolled

510
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: and rolled and kept going. And then all of a sudden,

511
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 3: I was the front person and I was the lead

512
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: who was in the spotlight, and that was very uncomfortable

513
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 3: for me.

514
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: I was going to ask, were your nose based on

515
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 2: the fear of getting the attention and being the obviously

516
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 2: everyone was looking for a Ronald McDonald or a figurehead

517
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 2: to peg like leader of the movement or that, and

518
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: that comes with imposter syndrome and all that stuff and

519
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: all that.

520
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 3: Stuff, and if you like you, it's like I've had

521
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: friends who got family quick and didn't have you know,

522
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: the counseling and stuff, didn't have a team of therapist

523
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 3: with them and ended up you know, leaving this surf

524
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 3: the way way way too soon. And so I had

525
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 3: all these cautionary tales that was like, don't go down

526
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: that road because you're going to die. Like I literally

527
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 3: was like, if you get famous, you die, Like that's

528
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: what I thought, or like, you know, people are always

529
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: like sneaking around the corner trying to get you. And

530
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: I was like, I can't live that life and be

531
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 3: in community. It also took me out of community. It

532
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: made me a star, so that then I started to

533
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 3: feel unwelcome in my community because they're like, oh, you

534
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 3: think you're so great, You're so conceited you know, I

535
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 3: got some girl walk up to me in a grocery

536
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 3: store and I was like on my period carrying an

537
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 3: thing on ice milk, like Neapolitan ice milk, you know,

538
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 3: beautiful Neapolitan ice milk ons like carrying it. And I

539
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 3: had a bag of JoJo's Do you remember those from

540
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 3: the Pacific Northwest. They're like really big French fries and

541
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 3: they're covered in like shaking bake material. You could get

542
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: them at like Safeway. So I had my JoJo's, my tampons,

543
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 3: my Neapolitan ice cream, and I'm walking in safe way

544
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: and it's about ninety two, like the time period we're

545
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: talking about, and some punk girl walks up to me

546
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: and she's like, you're ruining the punk scene. You think

547
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 3: you're so great, blah blah blah. And I'm like having

548
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 3: cramps and I'm carrying like a pretty embarrassing assortment of items,

549
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 3: and I'm just like, really right now, you know. And

550
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 3: so it was that kind of stuff that made me like,

551
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 3: you know, everyone's going to throw water on your shine,

552
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 3: so throw water on your shine first. You know, like

553
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 3: someone's gonna punch you in the face, so punch yourself

554
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 3: in the face. First, like I don't know what the

555
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: hell I was thinking, So I like I pulled back

556
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm just going to do community stuff.

557
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: I was like putting on you know, benefits for harm

558
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 3: reduction and like doing all this behind the scenes stuff.

559
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: I was answering all my mail, as I always did

560
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 3: to these kids who are writing, and they're like, I'm

561
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 3: going to kill myself because I just came out to

562
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 3: my family and I was rejected or you know a

563
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: lot of people who had rape in and messing violence,

564
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: you know, stuff going on in their lives, and like

565
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: I just put my nose down and did that work,

566
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: you know, And that's why I said no. So I

567
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 3: said no for the wrong reasons. But I also ended

568
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: up in this really weird predicament where because Bikini Kill

569
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: got so famous so quick for like five minutes, and

570
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: we got put in like all of these like feminist

571
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 3: academics wanted to like put make classes about us and

572
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 3: like put us in their books and stuff. I ended

573
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: up being an unpaid assistant or like five different feminist

574
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 3: professors without my knowledge. They were like from big ivy

575
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 3: league schools and they call me and they'd be like, oh,

576
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: you know, I'm really trying to put together this you know,

577
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 3: syllabus or blah blah blah, and I'm like handing.

578
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: Down to research.

579
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 3: I was doing all this research for them and stuff,

580
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 3: thinking I'm a part of feminist community and I and

581
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: then one day I was like, wait, they're getting paid

582
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 3: and they also have an assistant or or ta who's

583
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: getting paid. Why I make music? Right, I'm write, but

584
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: I'm not doing that. I'm doing their job. And so

585
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: I just the next day I woke up and anybody

586
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 3: asked me for anything any favor. No, no, no, And

587
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: if they weren't jerks about it, and they didn't keep

588
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: I found out everybody in my life who was a

589
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: total toxic nightmare by saying no to everybody. Yeah, and

590
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 3: then everyone who was a toxic namare was like why

591
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 3: why not? Why not? What? You don't care about me,

592
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 3: you don't care about community. And I was like, yeah,

593
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 3: you're now I'm not only not doing any favor, but

594
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: you're out of my life for ever and I'm never

595
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 3: returning your calls. And then I found all the people

596
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 3: who were cool about it. A couple months later, if

597
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, actually that sounded like fun.

598
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 3: I'm going to call that person up and see if

599
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: they still want to do something together.

600
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: And so you circle.

601
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 3: But I didn't do it for the right reasons at all.

602
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 3: I took a year off. I could have written a

603
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: great record in that year, but I was really too damaged.

604
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 3: And this was right after also, like you know, a

605
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: lot of people in my life had had just passed

606
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: and I was just really messed up.

607
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: Can I ask, Okay, so you said something in your book,

608
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: So right now I'm working on two projects in which

609
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: and let me start off by saying that, wait, that's it.

610
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: Your only work on two projects? Was wrong with you?

611
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: This two?

612
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: You're in a good community member.

613
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: This is two of the of the eleven I'm trying

614
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: to whittle down to, you know, a simple one. So

615
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: there's two projects I'm doing right now. They both require.

616
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: The shortest way to put it is that both of

617
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: them require for me to be the doctor Melfie to

618
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: their tony soprano. Kind of the insane amount of trauma

619
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: dumping I have to take on getting their stories. It

620
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: got to the point where I, you know, had to

621
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: get a second therapist. When you got to the part

622
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: of the book when you're holding these meetings because you're

623
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: not only producing and writing, but you're also teen rape

624
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 2: counselor you're holding these feminist meetings to the point where

625
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: even when you discover that there's trouble in Paradise in

626
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: terms of white feminism, and you're putting on so many

627
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: caps at the same time, what was the breaking point

628
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: for you? And I'm only asking this because one.

629
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: Of the subjects.

630
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: No, no, no, Well, the thing is is that my

631
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: version to know had less to do with like, I

632
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: understand that there's some nos where no, we're too cool

633
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: for school, we can't do that, But I also know

634
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: that three years ago I had to discover boundaries. I

635
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: thought being self sacrificing was like, oh, that a mirror

636
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: he's he always works so hard. I got tired of

637
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: being that person, you know, the self sacrificing person, never

638
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: thinking of myself. Now, in one of these particular projects,

639
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: the subject is similar to our story in terms of

640
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: like leading a movement and sacrificing and sacrificing and sacrificing

641
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: and what winds up happening is at the root of

642
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: this particular person's story sort of lies an undealt with

643
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: trauma with his parents, and this person kind of has

644
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: a medical issue with their own life. And I'm always

645
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: a believer that behind every medical issue is an emotional

646
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: component that's not thought out or or dealt with. Could

647
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,719
Speaker 2: you talk about and you know, you're very open about

648
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: the relationship with your father in the beginning years, And

649
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 2: obviously I felt that your need to save people is

650
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: you seeing yourself in you know, you want to save

651
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: the version of you that wasn't didn't have a protector,

652
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: didn't have someone to advocate for them.

653
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: Yes, but at what point did you.

654
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: Realize Now, the fact that you allowed love in your

655
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: life via Adam was amazing because it took me five

656
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 2: decades to get to that place. But at what point

657
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: did self care become truly important to you? And that

658
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 2: you had to what everything else is side? As far

659
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: as like juggling twelve plates at the same time, you know,

660
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: leading a movement, flyers meetings, teachers is unpaid teachers assistant.

661
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that breaking point? Like for you?

662
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 3: I can tell you the exact moment, Okay, Like it's

663
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 3: it's so funny because while you're talking, I'm like, oh, yeah,

664
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 3: I know the exact moment I was doing some work

665
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: for a political organization around uh Freemuma Abujamal and I

666
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 3: was working to help put on a concert and I

667
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 3: got very, very sick. And this is when I was

668
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 3: still living in Olympia and I was in Bikini Hill,

669
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 3: so it was still nineties and I had a temperature

670
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 3: that was like over one hundred and three and I

671
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 3: really I ended up being hospitalized. And I had a

672
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 3: like a you know, just a mattress on the floor.

673
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 3: Like I don't know what it was that like I

674
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 3: thought to be like I thought people who had matt

675
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 3: tress frames were. I was like why, you know, like

676
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 3: when I look back on how many times I just

677
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 3: like threw a mattress on the floor and like that

678
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 3: was it? You know? I mean I was really I

679
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: was that busy that I was like, you know the

680
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: guy who just like any T shirt that's laying on

681
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: the floor, I just like throw it on, right. Yeah. No,

682
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: I mean there were times in my vand where one

683
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 3: of us would shoke with lipstick on and be like,

684
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 3: how did you have time to put that on? Because

685
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: we were so busy. It was like, you know, you

686
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 3: would sleep and then wake up and then start working

687
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 3: in but I was laying on my mattress in my

688
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 3: apartment and I had to crawl the bathroom because I

689
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 3: was that sick. And my phone kept bringing and kept

690
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 3: bring and kept bringing, and I had an answering machine

691
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 3: at the time with the mini tape, and this woman

692
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 3: from the political organization was like, you need to call

693
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: me back. We need to get the sun, we need

694
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: to get the stune. And I had already picked up

695
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: and said, I have one hundred and three y tent

696
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 3: and I'm really really sick, and she kept calling and

697
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: calling and she was like, she screamed, I picked it up,

698
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: and I was like, dude, I'm like really sick, Like

699
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 3: I'm crawling to the bathroom and she's like, then, crawl

700
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 3: to the fucking fact is I had a fax machine.

701
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 3: Crawl to the fucking fax machine and facts. Eddie Vedder

702
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 3: and Zach de Larocha was like, and you know what

703
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 3: I did it.

704
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: I crawled to the fax.

705
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 3: Machine and not only did I fax them, I drew

706
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 3: cute drawings on the facts. You know what I mean?

707
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: Like when you're doing something like as you're crawling and

708
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 3: then you're getting out the sharpie and you're drawing the

709
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 3: cute dog picture so that zach de l Rocha notices

710
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 3: your facts. I'm like, this is you know. And then

711
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 3: my mom ended up driving from Portland to come get

712
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 3: me and taking me to the hospital and I was

713
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 3: really really sick and I was hospitalized and it was

714
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 3: a bad situation. And the other time it happened was

715
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 3: when I've had a long term illness which I since

716
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 3: recovered from, and that was like I was so driving

717
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 3: at a thousand miles per hour with a break on

718
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 3: in my life that my body was.

719
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: Like gave out.

720
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: My body was like my drenals were shot, everything was shot.

721
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 3: I was having like seizures, like it was like really

722
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 3: bad and when you're like kind of staring at death

723
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 3: because it was at that point where it was like

724
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: we didn't know what I had and I was really sick. Yes,

725
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: I actually do have a verifiable by tests illness. I

726
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: don't think it would have gotten as out.

727
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 4: Of control as it did if I hadn't suppressed all

728
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 4: of this trauma because my trauma body, you know, And

729
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 4: I do have a theory and people will.

730
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 3: Probably get mad about it or whatever, but about auto

731
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 3: because it's autoimmunal oneness. It's like, I don't think people

732
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 3: make up autoimmune oneness is. I don't think they're fake.

733
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 3: I don't think they're in your head. But for me,

734
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: my autoimmune oness was definitely made way worse by the

735
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: fact that I completely ignored my body. But I lived

736
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 3: in a state of hyper arousal from the time that

737
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: I was a kid, Like I would look at my

738
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: how my dad came into the house and be like,

739
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: what's going to happen tonight.

740
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: And adjust to yourself to the dude, and the.

741
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,720
Speaker 3: Same thing, you know, when when as a feminist musician,

742
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: who would walk into a venue and have to deal

743
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 3: with all these men and not have our own sound person,

744
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: not have a tour manager, we had no one. We

745
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: would have one roadie if that. So I would have

746
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 3: to kind of, you know, select the d of all

747
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 3: of these dudes emotionally or psychologically to get them to

748
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 3: turn my sound up, you know, And it was kind

749
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 3: And then I'd have an audience full of men who

750
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: were like yelling, you man, hating bitch, you know, shut

751
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 3: the fuck up, like whatever, and I'm like, I'm just

752
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 3: I just want to be in a band. I just

753
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 3: want to be in a band. I really love music.

754
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 3: I just want to play music, and so dealing with

755
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 3: that also made me walk into situations and be hyper aroused.

756
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: Every time I would play a show, I'm looking for

757
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 3: who has a glass or a bottle in their hand

758
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 3: that they're going to throw at me, or chain or

759
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 3: even a Setiger wineglass. You know, I had a wine

760
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: glasser in at me and I was like, I could

761
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 3: see it coming, but I'm really I hope somebody taped it,

762
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 3: because do you know that really famous moment in that

763
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 3: Bad Brains video where hr goes like that, it was

764
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: like that, Yes, it was like that I did that,

765
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 3: And I'm like, did anybody get that on camera? Because

766
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 3: I really want to like put it next to HRS clip.

767
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, I was like in this total state of

768
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 3: hyper arousal. And I really do feel like in a

769
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 3: way because what my body does is if I get

770
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 3: any kind of infection or sick, it goes to crazy,

771
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 3: out of control fever, right, And it's almost like my

772
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 3: body's in a state of hyper arousal. So it's like

773
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 3: my body sees some cells in my body making a

774
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 3: weird face and start my body starts freaking.

775
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: Out and you're in a constant state of fight or flight.

776
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, like I had to do nine

777
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 3: months of IV therapy. This is actually real illness. And

778
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 3: it's like I have quantifiable proof that I have it,

779
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 3: so it's it's not all in my head. But there's

780
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 3: a mind body connection. Who knew, you know, I've been

781
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: living above my head for so long, you know, to

782
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 3: avoid the trauma that is like residual, like leftover room

783
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 3: and body. And something I have to say to you,

784
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 3: my friend, because while you were talking, I thought of this.

785
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 3: And I don't mean to psychoanalyze you, but I'm going

786
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 3: to do it fucking anyway, because anybody who said that

787
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 3: everyone do psychoanalyze you is about to psychoanalyze you. I

788
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: think it's really interesting the when we started talking, you

789
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: talked about your girlfriend, saying when are you going to

790
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 3: write the real book and be vulnerable about your own life?

791
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 3: And then you've gotten involved with these two projects where

792
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: especially this one you're talking about, where someone has suppressed

793
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: something that they need to deal with and they're trauma

794
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 3: dumping on you and and and I know that they're

795
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 3: probably a super amazing person, and it's not You're not

796
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 3: saying that with anger or anything. It's like they're they're

797
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 3: actually telling their lives.

798
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: Oh no, the people I love.

799
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, But like I think that that's really interesting and

800
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 3: that it's something I relate to because you know, I

801
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 3: wasn't getting help for the abuse that I'd suffered in

802
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: my life, and it kind of went from my house

803
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 3: to then you know, being raped in high school and

804
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 3: you know, date rape. I mean, I don't know who

805
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 3: wasn't date raped at some point in their lives, but

806
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: you know, it's not a unique story. But it's like

807
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 3: all of these different things happen. And then I have

808
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 3: this job where I'm constantly sexually harassed and there's no HR.

809
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 3: There's no HR in punk rock. Who am I going

810
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 3: to call? You know what I mean? Like HR puff

811
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: and stuff like who's going to help me? No one's

812
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 3: going to help me? And so it's like I'm in

813
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 3: a different work environment every day that's abusive, and I

814
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: can't just be like, hey, can you move Bill's desk

815
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: away from me? Because he keeps saying if I don't

816
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 3: tell him if I'm married or single, he won't give

817
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 3: me the report, which is what was happening to me

818
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: where I had monitor. Guys wouldn't plug in my monitor

819
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 3: unless I told them what my status was in terms

820
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 3: of a man and yeah, and I'm like, why why

821
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 3: does that? What does it have to do with my

822
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 3: monitor situation? So I started bringing my own monitor and

823
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 3: plugging it in myself. And these are extra things that

824
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 3: people have to do who get treated poorly. And you

825
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 3: know the other thing, though, I have to look back

826
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 3: and be like, because of the particular time period and

827
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: place I grew up in with the nineties kind of

828
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: pure punk purist aesthetic, which I now am very critical

829
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 3: of because I think a lot of it is very

830
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 3: classist and it's very like upper white, middle class, like

831
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 3: holier than now. And there's a lot of play. Yeah,

832
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 3: there's definitely a lot of cosplaying for and there's definitely like,

833
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 3: you know, the Trustafarians at my school, Like there's just a.

834
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: Lot of Trustians.

835
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an amazing Oh god, Yeah, I've never heard Okay.

836
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 3: But you know what I'm talking about. The white guy

837
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: with redlocks on the subway. I don't who's singing Marley songs.

838
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 2: There's a schedule on SNL called ros that Andy Samberg

839
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: did about Rastafarian.

840
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know many of those cats.

841
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: I know many of those cats. So something happened that

842
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 2: you're probably not even aware. It's ninety five, so and

843
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: it's so weird at how our stories are intertwined. You know,

844
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: we signed to DGC Geffen in ninety three, and this

845
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 2: was like kind of the height and the madness of

846
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: billions and billions and billions of dollars raked in from

847
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: you know, post Guns n' Roses, residual post Aerosmith residual monies,

848
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: and of course never Mind was just you know, that

849
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 2: was the cherry on top. And what winds up happening

850
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: is so Geffen doesn't have a black department, a black

851
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: music division, and in the craziest kind of eleventh hour,

852
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: one second left in the game, Hail Mary.

853
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 3: Throw, I know this story, right, they.

854
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 2: Offer this amount of money. Yeah, they offered this deal.

855
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 2: But the most attractive part of this deal was the

856
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: security part of it. And the security part was if

857
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: we made one album, we would have to make the

858
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: second and third album. If we made the fourth album,

859
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 2: we'd have to make the fourth and the fifth album.

860
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: Like we couldn't get dropped.

861
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,479
Speaker 2: Most most like rap groups have to prove out the Gate,

862
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 2: you must have a hit single or else that's it.

863
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: And so that's what attracted us.

864
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: Between the period of December and April of ninety four,

865
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: you know, we make this record, and you know, as

866
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: we're talking to the guys that Geffen, you're Eddie Rosenblatz,

867
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 2: you're Windy gold Scenes like the people that were our

868
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: staff members, it became obvious that, you know, Guns n'

869
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: Roses is not making a follow up record. So called

870
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 2: Chinese Democracy is going to come any month. Now, Aerosmith

871
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: leaves to go back to Sony and then April comes,

872
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: and when Kirk leaves us, that's a panic signal to

873
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: my manager, who says, I think the honeymoon's over and

874
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: we have to make something happen. So this something straight

875
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: out of a movie. We like, think of the chase

876
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: scene and rest of our dogs. We basically kind of

877
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 2: stole our budget money out of the bank. So we

878
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: wind up moving in a panic move because we sense

879
00:45:55,280 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: that their excitement of starting a black music department is

880
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: going to drown out because three of their marquee artists

881
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: are no longer in existence, and so.

882
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: We moved to London and we fish out of water.

883
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: We live in. We get a flat in London.

884
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 2: And we work out the gym, and it takes about

885
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: a good year and a half before Geffen kind of

886
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: in a move that's sort of like they lost.

887
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: Their keys, Like wait, what some Swiss hey?

888
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: You know, Like literally it's like a year and a

889
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 2: half later before they realized like, we're the fuck.

890
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: Of the roots.

891
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 3: They're in London right.

892
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 2: And literally right before panic Hits were like, ah, look

893
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: at all the press we got, like we did this.

894
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: All on our own, and they were like, oh, you

895
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: guys did all this.

896
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, we got our own agent, and we

897
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: got our own tour bus, and we got our own

898
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: apartment and we just and that's all. We were like

899
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: the black hip hop version of the Commitments. I don't

900
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: know if you remember that movie.

901
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 3: Were you were you working out the material for the

902
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 3: album live before you recorded it, or were you doing

903
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 3: it simultaneously.

904
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 2: I mean, because we started off busking on the streets,

905
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 2: we kind of knew the songs that were gonna wind

906
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 2: up on the album, but we made the album. Uh.

907
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: Literally the day that Kirk Loder reported the news of

908
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 2: Kirk's death, my manager was like, yo, we got three

909
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 2: days we're gonna in about three to five days.

910
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: We made three videos.

911
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: Shot the album cover, knocked out nine songs, like finished

912
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: the record. We didn't want to get dropped from the

913
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 2: label because like, we bet the farm on this moment,

914
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 2: and they were impressed enough, and sure enough, as he predicted,

915
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: they dropped the other eighteen acts.

916
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,959
Speaker 1: But they were like, well, the Roots already completed their record,

917
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: so keep them. So wow.

918
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: So you know, we we worked out in Europe for

919
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,720
Speaker 2: an entire year and they're like, okay, guys, you're eventually

920
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: going to have to come back home. And it's like

921
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 2: ninety five and we're going to do our first dates

922
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: in the States. Start off in La go to San Francisco,

923
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: work our way to Portland and fourth stop in Seattle

924
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 2: and then Vancouver and after our Seattle show, like you know,

925
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: in every band's history or their folklore, there's that one

926
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 2: like crazy person that they meet, like their version of

927
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: Large March from Pewee Herman, like someone just shifting. My

928
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 2: manager gets on the bus the day that we leave

929
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: for Vancouver is like, yo, man, I met the most

930
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 2: craziest interesting and he goes.

931
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: On and on and knowing and knowing about.

932
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 2: He saw someone at that after you know, like we

933
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 2: would do a show and then you know, we had

934
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 2: critical buzz, so people are there to see and he

935
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: gets invited to an after party where the other Seattle

936
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,240
Speaker 2: Luminaries are. He talks to you for about two hours

937
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: and you tell him the whole story of what and

938
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: this is ninety five, so everything that you've organized and whatever,

939
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 2: and he was like whatever you told him. He's like, Yo,

940
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: there needs to be a feminist movement. And I was like, huh,

941
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: we're trying to get on MTV, Like why do we

942
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: have to start a movie. He's like no, man, it's

943
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 2: like you got to come out think outside the box.

944
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 2: Like and I was like, what we're rap group? Like

945
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 2: there's no women in our Like I could not fathom, Like, okay,

946
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: so we're going to be a feminist band now, like

947
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 2: how does that work in hip hop? Like even I

948
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: was drinking the kool aid of what kind of what

949
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: hip hop was supposed to be and all that stuff,

950
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm thinking of self preservation. And he

951
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 2: never lost that legal pad, like he wrote like a

952
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: maniac everything you said. And sure enough, starting in ninety seven,

953
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: the second time I had an interaction with you, the

954
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: two commonalities of it. The thing that impressed him the

955
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:22,959
Speaker 2: most was that you had a plan, you executed the plan,

956
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: and at both events you famously.

957
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: Cussed out a.

958
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: Figurehead rival of yours that we won't mention her name,

959
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: you know, at both events. The first night he met

960
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 2: you and then the second time I met you was

961
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 2: our last day would tourn with the Beastie Boys and

962
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 2: it's this outdoor. Yes, it wasn't bumpershoed, it wasn't the Gorge.

963
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 2: It was basically the Beastie Boys, bad brains, the roots

964
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 2: far side.

965
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the night when I I didn't cuss out,

966
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 3: but I basically, yeah, told them what Ricky Powell was

967
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 3: doing behind their backs.

968
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 2: Yo, when when I got to that from their lives

969
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 2: and I saw you independent of and Rich was like,

970
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 2: you remember what you remember from Seattle?

971
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 3: On the phone? Rich and I used to talk on

972
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,760
Speaker 3: the phone. We were like phone friends. I don't remember

973
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 3: the I don't remember the legal power or the first

974
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 3: time we met or anything. I just remember that.

975
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: We were because he would hang up and literally.

976
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 3: Just I really know if he liked me like I

977
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 3: thought he might like me. But it was like around

978
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 3: the time when I was meeting Adam. I know he

979
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 3: didn't like me, but I was kind of like, does

980
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 3: he like me? Like because and then I was like,

981
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 3: oh no, this is just a friendship, so sorry for

982
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 3: your loss. But he was. He was great, and we

983
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 3: had such amazing phone conversations and.

984
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: It just like you gave us a blueprint. And so

985
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: when we started just.

986
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 3: Telling him record stores in Portland, I was like, I

987
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 3: hope they went to that one record store.

988
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 2: Oh well, you know, I'm I'm a constant record shopper,

989
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 2: so I'm almost certain that I went to everywhere in

990
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,879
Speaker 2: Portland like Portland's I was my all time favorite place

991
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 2: on Earth pre pandemic it was. But yeah, I'll say

992
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 2: that talking us into being accessible, being community based, having

993
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 2: jam sessions. At first it was the roots Jam session,

994
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 2: and sure enough, you know, whenever the ladies in our

995
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: circle wanted to get on the mic, it was like

996
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 2: they would complaining that, you know, you guys are hogging

997
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: up everything and we don't have our like where's our agency?

998
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 2: And then we morphed it into what we now know

999
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: is Black Lily, which of course was kind of the

1000
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: impetus of the spark that Finally, by our fourth album

1001
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 2: had caught on and started a movement. But you know,

1002
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 2: I never ever got to like thank you for kind.

1003
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, I didn't even think you knew

1004
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 3: who I was. I was like, can I get on quest?

1005
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't I feel like. I mean,

1006
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 3: we've run into each other, like he came to my

1007
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 3: movie thing, Like I think he's aware of me. But

1008
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 3: you just know so many people that I was like,

1009
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 3: we have friends in common. I was like, maybe if

1010
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 3: you say I'm married toad Rock. I was like, but yeah,

1011
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 3: the fact that you that you're.

1012
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 2: Aware even when I saw and you add together, like

1013
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 2: the various times I've run into you guys, I didn't

1014
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: want to freak you out because I was like, yo, dog,

1015
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 2: she doesn't even know.

1016
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: And sometimes I don't know these things, Like people will

1017
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 1: tell me things.

1018
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: Like you don't even realize that the time you blah

1019
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah backed in ninety eight, Like now

1020
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 2: that's the part of long life that I'm getting. Where

1021
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: people from this college that apparently I did something for

1022
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 2: that you know, you gave me. There was one person

1023
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: that said, uh, I guess i'd for senior paper I

1024
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: talked to him for three hours and that wound up

1025
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 2: not only getting him an A, but that got him

1026
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 2: like hired at Lucasfilm like stuff that you're you're not

1027
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: aware of the residual effect. So I wanted to say

1028
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 2: this platform, No, I was highly aware of who you

1029
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: were and follows you throughout the the years, like literally

1030
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 2: you're you're the first. And I don't mean character in

1031
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: a reductive way, but you know, when we're arriving in

1032
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 2: Seattle after living in Europe and a John tirolta boy

1033
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 2: in a plastic bubble way like like I didn't meet

1034
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 2: a Wu Tang member until nineteen ninety nine. Like we

1035
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 2: were just we were very much hip hop, but we

1036
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: were just separated from what was happening between ninety three

1037
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 2: and ninety nine because we were living in Europe and

1038
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 2: on other tours that weren't hip hop related. And so

1039
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 2: finally using your your blueprint in terms of organizing a

1040
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: movement was how we finally like broke through to the

1041
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: other side. So you can add that feather to you, cap.

1042
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 3: I hope it didn't cause the problems that it for me,

1043
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 3: because I definitely took on too much, you know, and

1044
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 3: I've never listened to critics, Like I know you're somebody

1045
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 3: who like follows what critics say, and like you know,

1046
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 3: album and sales, and like, I feel really lucky that

1047
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 3: that was just never I came at music making as

1048
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 3: an art practice, like from my other art forms, so

1049
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 3: I had this real thing of like not protecting my creativity.

1050
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 3: But I feel very lucky. Like with one of the

1051
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 3: first questions you asked was like, you know, how did

1052
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 3: you write this book, and like what about the people

1053
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,959
Speaker 3: in it? And like how are people? Were you worried

1054
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 3: how people are going to react? And it's like I

1055
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: didn't think about it, and like I tried. There's definitely

1056
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: been one album that I made that I was thinking

1057
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 3: about that and it was not good. And almost everything

1058
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 3: else I've just been like I'm just making the thing

1059
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 3: I want to make, Like I'm eitherre's something that I

1060
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 3: want to hear or there's something I want to read

1061
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 3: that isn't being written, And You're right, a lot of

1062
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 3: it ended up being I was writing to me when

1063
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 3: I was fifteen, as if I was the adult who

1064
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 3: was saying the things that I needed to hear, or

1065
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 3: I was saying the things that I needed to hear

1066
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 3: that would validate that I wasn't insane, you know what

1067
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 3: I mean that, like, actually the world's crazy and you're

1068
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 3: kind of okay. But it's really funny when your music

1069
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 3: catches up with your life, you know, and then you're

1070
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 3: actually writing about what's happening now and you're not still

1071
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 3: writing about you know, past stuff that you don't even

1072
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 3: know you're writing about. Until for me, you know, my

1073
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 3: band didn't play shows both my buns for like twenty years,

1074
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 3: and then we got back together, and all of a sudden,

1075
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 3: I was like, I am the person that I wrote

1076
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 3: about wanting to be in this song right now, And

1077
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 3: I've realized what all these songs were actually about, and

1078
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 3: that they were about totally different things that I were about.

1079
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 3: You know, like before I ever came out of being

1080
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 3: having been been raped by a friend of mine while

1081
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 3: I was in Bikini Kill, and everybody thought I was.

1082
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 5: Like a strong, tough feminist and you know, I'm always

1083
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 5: like you know, yeapin and blah blah blah, and you

1084
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 5: cut some people out like whatever, But I also was

1085
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 5: actually assaulted by a close friend of mine during that time,

1086
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 5: like right before I went on.

1087
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 3: A really big tour, and the day before I went

1088
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 3: on tour, and what did I do? I played the shows,

1089
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 3: And I'm glad I did because I got to throw

1090
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 3: my whole body and my whole life story into every

1091
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 3: single night, and so I think that kept me alive. Honestly,

1092
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 3: it wasn't always me using it as a distraction, because

1093
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 3: everything else is a distraction in my life. But when

1094
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 3: I'm on stage, that's the main time that I'm a

1095
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 3: real person and that I am who I most really honestly,

1096
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 3: and I'm fully present and I'll bank like every other

1097
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 3: hour of my life just for that hour and a

1098
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 3: half or two hour time period, because to me, live

1099
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 3: performance is the main thing that I crave as a person.

1100
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 3: So yeah, I was going through that kind of stuff,

1101
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 3: and like nobody knew about it, and I feel like

1102
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell people because I didn't want the riot

1103
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 3: Gral people to come after him, because that just wasn't

1104
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 3: the story that I wanted. Like retribution for me holds

1105
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 3: no entry, and it's just taking me off with the

1106
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 3: path of what I want to make and I wasn't

1107
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 3: ready to deal with it, and so I just shut

1108
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: it off from my brain and I moved along and

1109
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 3: I was like, you know what, my mission is more

1110
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 3: important than this person. But eventually it came back to

1111
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 3: bite me in the ass and I and it came

1112
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 3: to the fore and I had to deal with it

1113
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 3: and I had to process it. And you know, through

1114
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 3: doing that, that was when I finally fell in love

1115
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 3: with that. That's when I got my cat, David Sue Recipes.

1116
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 3: That's when I finally started.

1117
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: I bought a couch, Like I have never heard a

1118
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: cat a mattress, you know what I mean.

1119
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 3: Like I had not only a mattress, but I had

1120
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 3: a couch too.

1121
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're adulting. I have two questions to ask, okay.

1122
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 2: So one, you know, thank you for your your your

1123
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 2: honesty and sharing those stories in your book about your assault.

1124
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: Knowing what you know now and especially what's been happening

1125
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 2: in the last five years, is a part of you

1126
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: wishing that well, First of all, if you go back

1127
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: in time. Number one is hope that you never have

1128
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 2: to experience that ever.

1129
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, for sure.

1130
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 2: But in terms of the one particular story that you

1131
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 2: shared about, you know, having a conversation of vulnerability and

1132
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: you guys just sitting lying in the bed next to

1133
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 2: each other and talking, and that was the person that

1134
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 2: you trusted, and suddenly it just went.

1135
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: One to eighty the other way.

1136
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 2: And you know, as I'm reading this, I'm like, oh God, okay,

1137
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 2: is the rage going to happen?

1138
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: Here is it?

1139
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 2: And I understand letting him go, and I understand the

1140
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: entire ordeal of reliving that trauma through the legal system,

1141
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 2: and all that stuff was just whatever.

1142
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I forgot it the second I left.

1143
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: Right the way that you painted it, I was like, oh, okay,

1144
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 2: she It was almost like a struggle.

1145
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: Oh no, big deal. Okay, well goodbye, see you later.

1146
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 2: Are you fine with the process of how you put

1147
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: that in your past?

1148
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: Oh?

1149
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I'm mad that he hasn't had to

1150
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 3: pay for my therapy because it keeps coming up. And

1151
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 3: I'm like, Jesus Christ, when will this person go away?

1152
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. It's not the person, it's

1153
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 3: like the abuse of trust. And you know, I was

1154
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 3: also at a place in my life where like I

1155
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 3: needed to find a good man. I needed to find

1156
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 3: a man in my life who was a feminist and

1157
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 3: who read books about it and cared about it. To

1158
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 3: prove to me, I've been so disappointed by so many

1159
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 3: men in my life who i'd gotten close to. Like

1160
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 3: I had for a lot of my life a lot

1161
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 3: of guy friends, and I hung out with guys, and

1162
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 3: I was like the kind of person who was like,

1163
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 3: let's go, you know, break bottles down by the railroad track. Yeah, well,

1164
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 3: let's go. Yeah, let's go break into the you know,

1165
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 3: the old prison and you know, smoke pot like stuff

1166
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 3: like that. And so I have these guy friends and

1167
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 3: like the second I wouldn't have a boyfriend, they'd be like, okay,

1168
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 3: let's have sex, and I'd be like, I don't like

1169
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 3: you like that. And then it'd be like, you know,

1170
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 3: either stock er behavior, they're really mad, they're ego is bruises,

1171
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 3: this whole thing, and I was like, god, this is

1172
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 3: so awful. And so I thought I finally thought I

1173
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 3: met this guy who was you know, he's so smart

1174
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 3: and we're like, you know, Briny Angela Davis books together

1175
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 3: and like talking about it and I'm like, this guy's

1176
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 3: so cool. And then he hands up sexually as salting me.

1177
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 3: And I was like the fact that I could ever

1178
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 3: trust anybody again in my life, but you know, is

1179
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 3: kind of like I feel like I'm a walking miracle.

1180
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 2: So well, part two of my question is how did

1181
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 2: you allow yourself the space to open your heart to Adam?

1182
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 2: And kind of part three of that question is behind

1183
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 2: every punk persona is there a cheese ball?

1184
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: Because the fact that because the fact that.

1185
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: You are corny right now got well, the thing was,

1186
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 2: you gave yourself away with Donnie Marie.

1187
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: I fell into you backwards, right your persona.

1188
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 3: You started with Donnie Marie.

1189
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I fell into you backwards. And

1190
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: so then when I started reading the pool.

1191
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 2: You're us weekly stars are just like us moment, I

1192
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 2: was like, oh, she lived for Donnie Marie on Friday

1193
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 2: nights like I did, like me and my sister did

1194
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 2: on Friday nights.

1195
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

1196
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 2: So no, but the fact that your go to thought

1197
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 2: was Okay, I need a mattress and I need peanut

1198
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 2: butter and jelly, and like I was like yeah, And

1199
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 2: behind every punk persona is a cheese ball.

1200
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: And you brought this poster and oh, Dolk and Mike.

1201
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 3: I couldn't make up. So the story is, I can

1202
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 3: tell it from the book just so you know, is

1203
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 3: that I was in love with Adam. I brought Corvi.

1204
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 3: It's from Dusty Boys, and it was pre Internet, so

1205
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 3: I couldn't just look up a picture of him to

1206
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 3: drive apart because we were apart because he lived in

1207
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 3: LA and New York and I lived in Olympia, Washington.

1208
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 3: So I went to the Sam Goodie at the mall.

1209
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 3: I couldn't go to the cool record store.

1210
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: I shopped at Sam Goodies.

1211
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 3: Well, you're from Philly. Did they have Waxy Maxis?

1212
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: No, because the first the.

1213
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 3: First single I ever bought was pop Music by m

1214
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 3: at Waxy Maxie, and I always loved that name. I

1215
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 3: was like, if I ever started a record store, I'm

1216
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 3: my name of Waxy Maxis. Anyways, I went to like

1217
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 3: Sam Goodie at the mall because I was like, nobody

1218
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 3: will recognize me. It was like the punk like in

1219
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 3: you know, nose and glasses, sneaking into Sam Goodie instead

1220
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 3: of the store.

1221
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: On Yeah, and.

1222
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 3: Nobody will see me at the mall because like it's

1223
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 3: a small town. Like seriously. Anytime I was like, you know,

1224
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 3: had a relationship with somebody, everybody knew because we all

1225
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:02,959
Speaker 3: lived in the same apartment building. So I was like, oh,

1226
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 3: I saw so and So leaving her apartment you know

1227
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like that is how every everybody knew everything,

1228
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 3: Like you couldn't. You had to like go into a

1229
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 3: coffee shop five minutes after somebody, so they didn't know

1230
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 3: you were together. Like it was like we lived in

1231
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 3: paparazzi land, even though we were like, you know, just

1232
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 3: kids in like this kind of town run by punks.

1233
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 3: It was pretty amazing to live in a town that

1234
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 3: had it done town. But that's a whole other thing.

1235
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 3: So I go drive to the mall, I get my

1236
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 3: poster of the Beastie Boys, and I'm so psyched that

1237
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 3: I get to look at the most handsome man. And

1238
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 3: this is this is when you were saying, how did

1239
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 3: you manage to open up your heart after these bad

1240
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 3: experiences to this person. I like pretty boys. I just

1241
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 3: like pretty boys. I like pretty girls too, but I

1242
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 3: like pretty boys. And he is a very pretty boy.

1243
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 3: And also he loves records and he loves music. And

1244
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 3: he's very different from me and compliments me like he's

1245
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,120
Speaker 3: I'm more like that, I don't know, you know, like

1246
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 3: like the feminist art, you know, person or like whatever.

1247
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 3: And he's much more reserved. But he is funny as hell.

1248
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 3: He is so funny, and that is just the sexiest.

1249
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 3: I mean, he's good looking, and he's funny, and he

1250
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 3: likes good records. Because I have had one night chance

1251
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 3: with people and I've looked at their collection or their CD.

1252
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: Collection, you're that person you judge people.

1253
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but if I find out Dave Matthews CD.

1254
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 3: I slept with this girl and I woke up in

1255
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 3: the morning and she had like Dave Matthews and like,

1256
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 3: I was.

1257
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: Like Matthews, I am.

1258
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 3: I was like no. I was just like no, and

1259
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 3: I and I ghosted her. I was like, I.

1260
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: Can't, you're that person.

1261
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 3: I bought the poster and I brought it home to

1262
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 3: my apartment and I made out with it. I made

1263
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 3: out with it. I kissed the poster all over and

1264
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 3: I covered Mike and Yowk's faces. That was weird. I

1265
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 3: was like, your bandmates are watching me make out with

1266
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 3: you you And then he found it when he came

1267
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 3: to my apartment and he's like, what's how come the

1268
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,479
Speaker 3: mouth it's all mestered right out of like, let's water

1269
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 3: on it. Yeah, it's fair.

1270
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: That's the most of romantic story I've ever heard.

1271
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 3: No.

1272
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 1: Here's the thing though, I.

1273
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 2: Used to be used to be well, not steel amb

1274
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 2: I was a member of Columbia House. Oh yeah, I

1275
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 2: was also a lazy member of Columbia House. And the

1276
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 2: way that Columbia House works, of course is yes, for

1277
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: those that are listening to our show that were born

1278
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 2: before nineteen ninety three, you didn't.

1279
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,959
Speaker 3: Go to school in a pioneer buggy wagon, right.

1280
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 2: So Columbia House was the original Spotify where they would

1281
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 2: entice you in magazines and whatnot. For a penny, you

1282
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 2: get fifteen free albums and then you're instantly signing.

1283
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: Up for a subscription service throughout the year. And the

1284
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: deal with is that they will send you two.

1285
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 2: To eight records a month based on your taste and

1286
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 2: the algorithm, and if you like the records that you're getting,

1287
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 2: then they just charge you and keep on charging you.

1288
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 2: If you don't like it, you can return it, but

1289
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 2: they're kind of banking on you forgetting to return it.

1290
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 2: And so as a result, which the lazy part comes

1291
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 2: into play because I checked off, I like all types

1292
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 2: of music. I will say that a big part of

1293
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 2: my you eyebrow raising judging me for my record collection

1294
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 2: stems from all the records I didn't return from Columbia House,

1295
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:46,919
Speaker 2: and I would just force myself to listen. I think

1296
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 2: between like twelve Wait a minute, I don't believe.

1297
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: That for a minute.

1298
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 2: All right, spew right now five records between twelve and

1299
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 2: seventeen that you wouldn't want any of your friends to

1300
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 2: know that you listen to they.

1301
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: Tell the truth.

1302
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 3: It's all. It's all before that, because I mean, by the.

1303
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 2: Time if you watch Donny Marie, I know, but.

1304
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 3: But I'm proud of my Olbinaton John thing. So I

1305
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 3: had totally hot, wait, totally hot.

1306
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:21,560
Speaker 1: I was gonna say totally hot hot.

1307
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: Xanadu or like which which car hot totally we all

1308
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 2: felt for totally hot.

1309
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 3: I literally carried it to camp without the vinyl in it,

1310
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 3: so the vinyl didn't get hurt. I just carried the

1311
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 3: and I slept with it under my pillow.

1312
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 2: First fist fight I got into with Mark Rapp in

1313
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 2: the third grade.

1314
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,560
Speaker 1: The way that I could get under his skin.

1315
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 2: Was okay, this is like in the video game era,

1316
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 2: where you could write out something longer than three initials

1317
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 2: if you get the high score.

1318
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, well I was are.

1319
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 2: Asked, right, but then it was one particular game that

1320
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 2: let you have like twenty characters, and the sure fire

1321
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 2: away to get under Mark's skin was to write Olivia sucks.

1322
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 2: I mean I would spelling it out and he's like,

1323
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 2: if you press into I swear a mirror and run.

1324
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 1: My That was daily.

1325
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 2: But yeah, for Christmas, I remember, Yeah, she had like

1326
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 2: a commercial campaign with the black leather jacket and all

1327
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 2: that shit.

1328
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 3: It was like Sandy from Greece continued.

1329
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: Right exactly the same outfit. So yeah, it was so good.

1330
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 3: I had a fancy called Destination Olivia and then there

1331
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 3: we had a party around it to celebrate its lunch,

1332
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:44,679
Speaker 3: and it was a jone Jet versus Olivia and John

1333
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 3: party and you had.

1334
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:47,440
Speaker 1: Joined it or you made the fanzine.

1335
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,679
Speaker 3: I made the fancine called the Station Olivia, and then

1336
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 3: a bunch of girls in my town were like, we're

1337
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 3: going to throw this party that is jone Jet versus Olivia,

1338
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,759
Speaker 3: and so everybody dressed it's either Joan or Olivia.

1339
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 2: So you're basically it was so and a lot of

1340
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 2: people were Lingerie for now an a win tour of

1341
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 2: music fanzines because you know, like the BC Boys taught

1342
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 2: me everything. I know that I still utilized now in

1343
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 2: my career, even with me creating an OK player and

1344
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 2: being on the internet, Like everything that I implement now

1345
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 2: is from those two months of touring with those guys,

1346
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 2: especially with getting Grand Royal. Probably, like one of my

1347
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 2: prize possessions is that I have ten copies of every

1348
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 2: Grand Royal ever published somewhere in my storage unit. But

1349
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:48,879
Speaker 2: for you talk about the publisher in you, like you

1350
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 2: putting these fanzines together, you putting and I don't mean

1351
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 2: high school, I'm talking about even in your career. How

1352
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 2: do you have the energy to even do that in

1353
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 2: addition to being an artist.

1354
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, when you're in your twenties, it's

1355
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 3: not that big big deal, like and when you live

1356
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 3: in a small town, there was nothing going on. Like

1357
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 3: we were bored kids, and we were really lucky that

1358
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 3: at the time Heroin wasn't around. So yeah, we drank forties,

1359
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,759
Speaker 3: but like, and I may have drank too many forties

1360
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 3: a few many times.

1361
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 1: But.

1362
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 3: You know, it was like something to do. So I

1363
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 3: was just like, you know, I was also like really

1364
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 3: stressed out a lot about stuff. And you know when

1365
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 3: you first become a feminist or you first become conscious

1366
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 3: about just like marginalization and oppression and stuff like that.

1367
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 3: Everywhere you look. It's tough for myself. Everywhere I looked,

1368
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 3: I was like, there it is there, it is there,

1369
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:43,759
Speaker 3: it is. I was like, oh my god, this movie

1370
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 3: is so messed up. Like my mind was kind of

1371
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 3: exploding when I was in my twenties with like all

1372
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 3: the stuff I was learning about, like oh wow, you know,

1373
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 3: this is how this group of people is being treated,

1374
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 3: and this is like to keep these people down so

1375
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 3: that they're workers and they don't you know, and I

1376
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 3: was like whoa, you know, kind of freaking out. And

1377
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 3: so fancines were real outlet for me to write poetically

1378
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 3: about that stuff and to be creative about it and

1379
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 3: to sort of like have it like go through the

1380
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 3: computer of my brain and then come out the other

1381
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 3: side as a way for me to talk about it.

1382
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 3: And also, you know, me and my sister were the

1383
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 3: first people in my family, like my mom and I

1384
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 3: didn't go to college, so like we got to go

1385
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 3: to college, and I was like so thrilled, Like I

1386
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 3: felt like I was so lucky I got to be there,

1387
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 3: and I didn't want to, you know, waste it, and

1388
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 3: so I had this real yearning to like the first

1389
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 3: time I read a Bell Hooks book, I wanted to

1390
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 3: share it with my mom, you know, and it was

1391
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 3: like I wanted to share it with other people in

1392
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 3: my family. And so writing these fanzines was also a

1393
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 3: way that I could share the books I was reading

1394
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 3: in college that back then there was no internet, so

1395
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:47,640
Speaker 3: it was a way to put booklists. It was a

1396
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 3: way to talk about the issues that were coming up

1397
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 3: in books I was reading with other people who maybe

1398
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 3: weren't going to college, because the majority of the punk

1399
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 3: scene in Olympia weren't at Evergreen. Like Evergreen that was

1400
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 3: the college that was in my town that I went to,

1401
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 3: and that's why I moved there to Olympia, Washington and

1402
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 3: Evergreen State College, and but most of the punks didn't

1403
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 3: go to that college. They were just like lived in

1404
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 3: the town, you know. So it was like to be

1405
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 3: able to talk about feminism with everybody, not just people

1406
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 3: who were in college, and actually people in my college.

1407
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:21,679
Speaker 3: There was like one feminist class that I took. People

1408
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 3: think it was like this big feminist outbed, but it

1409
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 3: was actually really frowned upon. And when I tried to

1410
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 3: put feminist ideas into my photography. It was like, shut

1411
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 3: the fuck up. So to be able to put that

1412
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 3: out into the world and have people respond to it's

1413
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 3: really important. And you know, when Kurt died, you guys were,

1414
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 3: you know, scrambling to you know, get your record done

1415
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 3: and make sure your contract was shut up. And I

1416
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 3: was writing a fancy called The April Fool's Day about

1417
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 3: quitting drinking. And I was interviewing my friend Mikey's bass

1418
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 3: player Bryan Sparhawk, who I actually just saw him when

1419
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:00,520
Speaker 3: we got the key to the city in Olympia.

1420
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: Now you're the establishment a.

1421
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 3: Month ago, I know. I was like, I was like,

1422
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 3: does this mean I can get into the Governor's Inn,

1423
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 3: which is like the local hotels? Can I just use

1424
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 3: this key?

1425
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: Right?

1426
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 3: But no, it was like I was interviewing, you know,

1427
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 3: my friend Mikey also he was Kirk's front and he

1428
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 3: was a heroin user, and I was trying to do

1429
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 3: everything I could to talk about addiction in the punk

1430
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 3: scene and to raise awareness and to try to like

1431
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 3: make Kurt's death mean something, you know, because like I can't.

1432
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 3: I couldn't. That's how I deal with things. I'm like,

1433
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 3: this has to mean, something like this has to this

1434
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 3: horrible feeling I'm feeling. How can I channel it into

1435
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 3: something that is not going to push me down a

1436
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,080
Speaker 3: bad road and it is going to make me feel

1437
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 3: like I'm a part of something positive, you know what

1438
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 3: I mean? And like I didn't want his death to

1439
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,759
Speaker 3: just be oh to member of the twenty seven club,

1440
01:14:55,880 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 3: Like there were people in my community who were going

1441
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 3: further down the drug road because he had died, and

1442
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 3: they were really depressed, And how could I be a

1443
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 3: part of just starting a conversation? And so I did

1444
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 3: that through a fancy you know that most people don't

1445
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 3: have because it's not a print.

1446
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 2: But what I was going to ask, do you least

1447
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 2: have the master copies?

1448
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:26,480
Speaker 3: It fails. It's like an archive f and white Youth boast.

1449
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: So they're somewhere preserved.

1450
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:30,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're right across the street from Washington Store Park

1451
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,720
Speaker 3: in that library.

1452
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 1: Where do you currently reside now.

1453
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,000
Speaker 3: Pasadena, California?

1454
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: Really? Yeah?

1455
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 3: My mom moved here because she liked that song A

1456
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 3: Little Old Lady from Pasadena.

1457
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 1: I see.

1458
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 3: I was like, why did you play Pasadena? She's like,

1459
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 3: I almost like that little Old Lady from Pasadena song?

1460
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 3: I was like she's like, I'm a old lady now,

1461
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 3: so I'm a little old lady in Pasadena.

1462
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 2: I lived there for my mom's side of the family

1463
01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 2: lived out there, so wow, yeah briefly. Wow, that's where

1464
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 2: my mother's side of the family lived.

1465
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:05,640
Speaker 1: Now I want to.

1466
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,120
Speaker 2: Ask de wee questions, what shows are you currently binging?

1467
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 2: I'm getting something cheesy out of you if it's not

1468
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 2: your record collection.

1469
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 3: I mean I binged Hacks, I binged Girls five Ever.

1470
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: I think it's so funny, it's hilarious.

1471
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:29,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, but actually I think it's called Stars. There's this

1472
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,480
Speaker 3: other one that's about a girl group that happened before,

1473
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:35,720
Speaker 3: and it's got like Brandy.

1474
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Stars, but that was only two seasons of it.

1475
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so but it's like prototype Girls five ever.

1476
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 3: But it just didn't it didn't go hard comedy. It

1477
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 3: meant it went more like so.

1478
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 1: Was sincere right, Yeah it had it was.

1479
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 3: It's actually a really, really, really funny show. But yeah,

1480
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 3: I mean Brandy, do you know wrong?

1481
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 1: I just my favorite harmony stacker of the nineties.

1482
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:05,759
Speaker 3: Yes, incredible, but yeah, it's like it's like chock full

1483
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 3: of literal stars. But it's also about like a nineties,

1484
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:13,599
Speaker 3: kind of like rap singing group that gets back together

1485
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 3: when they're like older and having relationships and stuff like that.

1486
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 3: So I just I binge that, but it ended. That's

1487
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:22,640
Speaker 3: the problem with benching things is that then you're like, oh, no,

1488
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 3: I'll never find out what happened.

1489
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: Because yeah, I'm that way with Detroiters.

1490
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 3: We just started watching that dude before.

1491
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 2: I loved him, and I'm happy for his ammy success

1492
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:39,759
Speaker 2: with his Netflix show now, but Detroitters. I called Jason

1493
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 2: Sadekas at least once a month to beg him to

1494
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 2: bring that show back.

1495
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 1: He's one of the producers of it.

1496
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 2: Okay, so there's a couple's question, what is your ideal

1497
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 2: bedroom temperature? I learned in the Pandemic that a couple

1498
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 2: must be equal, yoked in agreement how they want the

1499
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:04,759
Speaker 2: bedroom temperature.

1500
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 3: Eighty three?

1501
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,720
Speaker 1: You're Africa hot. You and I are the same person.

1502
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, eighty three. And Adam's fine with whatever. But my kid,

1503
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 3: because it runs on the same thing. Our kid likes

1504
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 3: it to be freezing cold. He wants it to be

1505
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 3: eighty degrees.

1506
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:21,679
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1507
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 2: I've probably some of the harshest arguments I've had in

1508
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,480
Speaker 2: a relationship starts with the temperature.

1509
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 3: Are you going through menopause? Maybe that's it.

1510
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: I think I am obviously I am. I think I am. Okay,

1511
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 1: are you a text? Cold call or FaceTime? Person?

1512
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 3: Text? Okay, text and FaceTime, but I faced on my

1513
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 3: mom like only only my mom and Adam, do you am?

1514
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 3: I do Marco Polo with my.

1515
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:57,400
Speaker 2: Friends really just out of nowhere, like you know, they're

1516
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:00,960
Speaker 2: in the shower somewhere, like inconvenient.

1517
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 1: Is that? What is marco polo?

1518
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:05,799
Speaker 3: Oh? So marco polo is where you leave a video,

1519
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 3: so like when it's convenient to me, it's like FaceTime,

1520
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 3: but it's like when it's convenient to me. So it's

1521
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 3: like me and my friend Jim or my friend Kathy,

1522
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:17,600
Speaker 3: like we leave and my friend Dusty we leave like

1523
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 3: videos for each other on this thing called Marco polo.

1524
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:22,479
Speaker 3: So it's like I'll just be doing something and I'm

1525
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 3: backstage and I'm able to talk because I'm not on

1526
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:26,800
Speaker 3: vocal rest, and this is like my ten minutes of

1527
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,720
Speaker 3: time that I can talk. So like just here's where

1528
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 3: I am, and here's what's going on. I miss you,

1529
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 3: what's going on in Alaska? Like whatever? And then when

1530
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 3: they feel like it, they leave me one back and

1531
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 3: then I get to check it and I will get

1532
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 3: these like new Marco Polos every day and I can

1533
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 3: check it at my convenience. I just didn't add for

1534
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:45,560
Speaker 3: Marco Polo, so I should get like a million dollars.

1535
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 1: I didn't know Marco Polo.

1536
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:51,280
Speaker 2: I thought you meant Marco Polo as in you just ambush.

1537
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 1: So I thought like it was like the three in

1538
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: the morning.

1539
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, But that's the cool thing is that

1540
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:00,639
Speaker 3: you can just leave the video at in the morning,

1541
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:02,680
Speaker 3: if that's why you're feeling like doing it. Like I

1542
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,720
Speaker 3: can't call my've all my three in the morning. Oh,

1543
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 3: I just opened her house because she lives five blocks away.

1544
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,560
Speaker 3: I literally don't face on my mom anymore because I

1545
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:11,639
Speaker 3: just walk over to her house.

1546
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 1: Are you kidding?

1547
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 2: My mom will call me at any she doesn't understand

1548
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 2: the word no, or I'm working or I'm taping live

1549
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:21,679
Speaker 2: right now.

1550
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 1: I'll call you after I'm done taping.

1551
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 3: Like she's sitting just at a frame.

1552
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Like you see her her nostrils as she's

1553
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:33,719
Speaker 2: like she just got an iPhone.

1554
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's that person.

1555
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I talked to my mom's crown molding a lot

1556
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 3: on FaceTime. I'm like, there you go, Mom, Really you're

1557
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:42,559
Speaker 3: crowme molding. That's really great.

1558
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds about right. When's the last time you've

1559
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 2: been starstruck?

1560
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 1: God?

1561
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't really, Like all my friends are

1562
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 3: like nurses and teachers, so like, I don't really we

1563
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 3: don't really run in celebrity circles so much.

1564
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 1: Person that you meant that you're like, oh, yeah.

1565
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 3: Okay, so Leslie gooor. I met at a party at

1566
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 3: Evensler's house, so Evansler wrote Vagina Monologues. Yeah, and her

1567
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 3: apartment when I went to it, and this is many

1568
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 3: years ago in New York, was painted all red and

1569
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 3: all the furniture was red. I mean it was like

1570
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 3: it's like it's a TV show that rates itself right,

1571
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:24,840
Speaker 3: Like I was. I was like, no, this is so great.

1572
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 3: But it was like every like kind of feminist luminary

1573
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 3: was there and like this, you know, celebrating this activist

1574
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 3: who had just gotten let out of jail after forty years.

1575
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 3: And it was like this big thing and like everybody

1576
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 3: was there and I was back to back with this

1577
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:43,680
Speaker 3: woman and then we turned around and I looked at

1578
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 3: her and I just was like Leslie Gore, and I

1579
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 3: could barely get it out of my mouth.

1580
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 1: And then I just fully met her at a party.

1581
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 3: I met her at a party in a red apartment

1582
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,400
Speaker 3: where everything was red, like we were inside a vagina.

1583
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 3: And then I looked at her and I I was

1584
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 3: just I was sobbing and I couldn't get a word out,

1585
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 3: and I'm just bab I love Leslie Bore. I loved

1586
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 3: Leslie Gore since I was a child. Her voice is

1587
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:13,680
Speaker 3: so amazing to me. It's got that like clear as

1588
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 3: a bell kind of quality to it. And I always

1589
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:19,720
Speaker 3: was like, there's something underneath the lyrics going on, There's

1590
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 3: something underneath the lyrics going on. And it turns out

1591
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:25,640
Speaker 3: she was gay. I didn't know that, and yeah, and

1592
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 3: her and her girlfriend were at the party, and I

1593
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:29,600
Speaker 3: was like, I knew it, but you know, her and

1594
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 3: her brother wrote out here on my own k yes,

1595
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 3: and I sang that. I went on stage at a

1596
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 3: high school dance in seventh grade with this girl, Jeanie Staver,

1597
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 3: and this other girl and we took parts singing that

1598
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 3: like we kind of like we made it into a trio.

1599
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 2: Who got the bridge? That's the hard part oh, I did,

1600
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 2: come on, that's.

1601
01:22:57,200 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 3: The whole thing to get the bridge. But then I

1602
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 3: thought like, I was like, you and your brother wrote

1603
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 3: that song because I interviewed her for Miss magazine after

1604
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 3: I after I stopped crying, I was like, I want to,

1605
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:08,600
Speaker 3: you know, do something with you.

1606
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:12,600
Speaker 1: No, I didn't know she wrote that yeah, oh damn okay.

1607
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was like, that's so weird because I

1608
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 3: always felt such a connection with that song. And you know,

1609
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 3: Coco the character, I mean, fame was everything, you know

1610
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,599
Speaker 3: when I was young, like that movie in Greece. I

1611
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 3: was always like, when Beyonce first came on the scene,

1612
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 3: I was like, they have to do a hip hop

1613
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 3: Grease remake with Beyonce because she's so she'd be so

1614
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 3: good as Sandy.

1615
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,679
Speaker 2: But it never happened, and well, they know, they kind

1616
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 2: of almost did. They remade a hip hop version of Carmen.

1617
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Grease the movie with modern stars.

1618
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to tell me that you

1619
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:51,639
Speaker 2: were a Grease too person, not a Grease one person.

1620
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:57,560
Speaker 3: Okay. I do like that song. I don't believe I

1621
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 3: want to cuckol Cucko, right, it's got one good song.

1622
01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 3: It's terrible it's terrible.

1623
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,840
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm glad you're saying that it's terrible. Grease two.

1624
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:10,599
Speaker 2: People will argue be in the ground that they liked

1625
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:12,679
Speaker 2: Grease two better than Grease one.

1626
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 3: Oh that's a lie, that's a lie. That's just like

1627
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,080
Speaker 3: they're just lying to their debtrarians.

1628
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 2: I liked your first album better, or I like the

1629
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 2: demo better than Okay, that's what I thought you were.

1630
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 3: I'm always like that, Like I'm like somebody was like, oh, well,

1631
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 3: Liz Fair and you know Exile and Guida, and I

1632
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, but when she was girly Sounds and

1633
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,400
Speaker 3: it was on a cassette, it was so much better.

1634
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 1: I called this.

1635
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:39,800
Speaker 5: I remember meeting Liz Fair at a show at a

1636
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 5: Babes and Twillan show, and she told me she was

1637
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 5: writing a response to the Rolling Stones Exile on Main Street,

1638
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:46,320
Speaker 5: which is one of my.

1639
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 3: Favorite Stones albums. And I was like so blown away

1640
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 3: because I was a huge Stones fan when I was younger.

1641
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 3: I guess that's my embarrassing theme, Like right, I mean,

1642
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 3: it's not embarrassing. I was huge, huge, huge into the

1643
01:24:57,400 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 3: Stones to the point I was going to get like

1644
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 3: the lips tattooed once at a party and I was like,

1645
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:03,960
Speaker 3: so glad I didn't. And then when I kind of

1646
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 3: like started learning about feminism, and I was like ooh,

1647
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 3: under my thumb, brown sugar, oh you know what I mean.

1648
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 3: Like I was like, this is there's a lot of

1649
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 3: sexism and racism going on in here. And I was

1650
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 3: just like this is not cool. And I literally took

1651
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 3: and I mean now, of course, as a record colicker,

1652
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 3: I don't even want to tell you this, but I

1653
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 3: had like you know, Japanese pressings, and like I had

1654
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 3: a stack this big, all this kind stuff. I went

1655
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 3: down to the record store and I set it on

1656
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:33,880
Speaker 3: the desk and I just was like have it.

1657
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:35,719
Speaker 1: He gave him back.

1658
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 3: I just know there from all over the place. I

1659
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 3: just was like, I was like, I can't have this

1660
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 3: in my house, Like it was contraband, like what is

1661
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 3: wrong with me?

1662
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,600
Speaker 2: Like because you think someone's going to the collection and

1663
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 2: judge you.

1664
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 3: No, it was because like I couldn't physically have it

1665
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 3: in my house because it made me so disgusted that

1666
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 3: I loved it so much. And then I was like

1667
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:59,760
Speaker 3: so disappointed and I realized I was so sad and

1668
01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:01,759
Speaker 3: I was so upset. I couldn't look at it because

1669
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:05,120
Speaker 3: it made me nuts, and so I just like dropped

1670
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 3: it on. I lived above a record store, so I

1671
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 3: dropped it in the record store and just gave that

1672
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:10,760
Speaker 3: to them as a present to sell. And it was

1673
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 3: just like I don't even want any money for it,

1674
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 3: but like now I can see gray area.

1675
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, even the most righteous person, I

1676
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 2: think five percent of their record collection, oh yeah, is

1677
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 2: allowed a problematic faith as long as it's not there

1678
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 2: are some of that.

1679
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 3: I just can't because I can't because it's just like

1680
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 3: I physically feel ill. But it's like you know exact mean,

1681
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:36,040
Speaker 3: you know I love music too much that it's not

1682
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 3: all of a sudden gonna make me do something horrible

1683
01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:40,000
Speaker 3: if I listen to it, you know what I.

1684
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:42,519
Speaker 1: Mean, Like you got to be but you're aware of

1685
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: it now. But oh I think you see you threw

1686
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 1: that away. I was like, no, don't ever throw Oh.

1687
01:26:47,160 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 3: No, I would never throw vine normal way.

1688
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:51,759
Speaker 1: God, Okay, what is your secret talent?

1689
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:54,719
Speaker 3: I mean I can put my whole fist in my mouth.

1690
01:26:56,960 --> 01:26:58,400
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a secret talent.

1691
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:04,760
Speaker 2: Small hands or not, I'm gonna ask you. And this

1692
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 2: is subjective. Is the grass greener on the other side.

1693
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 2: Oh are you insatiable?

1694
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:13,920
Speaker 3: You mean like that I want more, more and more

1695
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:14,800
Speaker 3: and more all the time.

1696
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I mean my grass greener on the other

1697
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:21,439
Speaker 2: side was okay. So back in our grateful dead jam

1698
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:25,679
Speaker 2: ban two hundred days on the year life, to tell

1699
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 2: me that we're going to Europe for another two months

1700
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 2: was like I'd rather slit my wrists, and God if

1701
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:36,679
Speaker 2: you hear me, Like, can I stay in one place

1702
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 2: and not have to tour ever again and make the

1703
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 2: same mone?

1704
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 1: And then you get it, and now it's like I.

1705
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 2: Would do anything, oh yeah, to go back on the road.

1706
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:50,400
Speaker 3: And you know, I've only been home a month, Like

1707
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 3: I just got off the road. So I came home

1708
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:55,000
Speaker 3: and I was just like, I.

1709
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:59,400
Speaker 2: Hate it here, even doing what I perceived to be

1710
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:00,840
Speaker 2: a victory lap for you.

1711
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:03,599
Speaker 3: It wasn't a victory lab at all. It felt better

1712
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,360
Speaker 3: than it felt. I mean, I'm singing.

1713
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 1: Better, Well, that's a victory lab.

1714
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 3: I'm enjoying. Yeah, I'm enjoying the songs. I don't I

1715
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 3: can close my eyes and feel myself in the music

1716
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:14,599
Speaker 3: and not have to look to see if somebody's throwing

1717
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 3: something at me. We have a sound person. We have

1718
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 3: a manager. I mean that's the one when you're talking

1719
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 3: about like going back and what could you what would

1720
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:24,559
Speaker 3: you tell yourself or if you saw the future, like whatever,

1721
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 3: I would tell myself, like get a sound person right away,

1722
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:31,680
Speaker 3: like this. This needs to be a member of your

1723
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:33,120
Speaker 3: This is a member of your band.

1724
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 1: Like oh, the engineer is important.

1725
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 3: That's how people have a sound person. You can't go

1726
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 3: I can't have a man who doesn't like my politics,

1727
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 3: literally controlling my voice like it's just it's it's crazy

1728
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:49,599
Speaker 3: making you can't live that way as as an artist,

1729
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 3: like with the particular kind of like athletic singing that

1730
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:56,880
Speaker 3: I do. And so yeah, I would I would say, also, hey,

1731
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,760
Speaker 3: you know, maybe you should get a manager. I wish

1732
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 3: I have known about those jobs sooner and have more education.

1733
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 3: And I think that the internet was around, I would

1734
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:07,600
Speaker 3: have known about that stuff. And maybe you know, a

1735
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 3: lot of stress came in our band and Bikini Kill

1736
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 3: because we didn't have a manager. And so people go

1737
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:14,200
Speaker 3: to the lead singer, and then I would bring stuff

1738
01:29:14,240 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 3: into the band and I would be like the bearer

1739
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:18,040
Speaker 3: of bad tidings, you know what I mean, I'd be

1740
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:20,559
Speaker 3: the one in practice, who's like, hey, before everybody leaves,

1741
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,960
Speaker 3: I have these ten questions, right, And then I'm like,

1742
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 3: you know, because the manager, there's always a point where

1743
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 3: you're rolling your eyes at your mand You're like, God,

1744
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 3: if you asked me to do one more thing, it's

1745
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:31,559
Speaker 3: not their fault. But at the same time, you're like,

1746
01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:34,439
Speaker 3: I don't want to do that interviewer. I don't want it,

1747
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:36,519
Speaker 3: you know, like I don't want to do another photo shoot,

1748
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 3: or they don't have any clothes that fit me, like

1749
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:40,920
Speaker 3: you know, like I'm just not in the mood. I

1750
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 3: don't want to be looked at, you know whatever. But

1751
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:45,800
Speaker 3: I do have that thing of like the first day

1752
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 3: after tour, I'm like so happy I don't have soundcheck.

1753
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 3: Like I wake up and I'm like, oh, I don't.

1754
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:51,840
Speaker 1: Have a sound check today, line check.

1755
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm so happy I don't have a soundcheck.

1756
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 3: And then I'm like, oh no, I'm not going to

1757
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 3: get that. I'm not going to get the dopamine and

1758
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:04,880
Speaker 3: the adrenaline rush of being on stage and the community

1759
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 3: filling and I'm just going to like go get my

1760
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 3: windshield fixed today. And I'm like I can't live my

1761
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 3: life this way. But now I'm like settling in and

1762
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, I have ten other projects that

1763
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:19,360
Speaker 3: I have to get to work on, and so I'm

1764
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 3: really busy.

1765
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 2: So this is one area that I see a lot

1766
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 2: of my peers failing spectacularly in, which is if you're

1767
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 2: known as a rebel and you've been here long enough

1768
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 2: walking a path, the path that you made, what happens

1769
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 2: once there's no more struggle? Like do you feel comfortable

1770
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 2: if it's just you and the songs?

1771
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 1: Now?

1772
01:30:48,400 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 2: Like if there's not something to rebel or fight against.

1773
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 2: I think what's problematic right now, especially politically with a

1774
01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 2: lot of my peers that are my age that you

1775
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:05,920
Speaker 2: would hope kind of step to the plate or at

1776
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:09,400
Speaker 2: least live up to the idea of what I thought

1777
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:11,479
Speaker 2: they were when I was listening to them at eighteen

1778
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 2: or nineteen.

1779
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 1: But I realized that, oh, well.

1780
01:31:15,320 --> 01:31:20,280
Speaker 2: None of them are going to stand on the political

1781
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:24,799
Speaker 2: rights side of history because that would ruin their brand.

1782
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 2: So I know, on my side of the fence, there's

1783
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:32,360
Speaker 2: a lot of cats that are thinking of brand preservation, Like,

1784
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:36,240
Speaker 2: what does it look like me complying with the system

1785
01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 2: that I railed against for thirty years? And I always wondered, like, well,

1786
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:44,360
Speaker 2: do you ever imagine, like thirty years forty years ago,

1787
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:49,639
Speaker 2: when you guys released records that you inspired a twenty

1788
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,439
Speaker 2: year old college students to get politically active and then

1789
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:58,200
Speaker 2: become the answer to you know, the problem that faced

1790
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 2: us in the eighties and nineties. So I'll ask you

1791
01:32:02,479 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 2: if there's no more, And of course I know there's

1792
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:08,719
Speaker 2: plenty of struggle. We're in the this is the fight

1793
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:13,480
Speaker 2: for our life struggle. Yeah, but oftentimes do you imagine

1794
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,120
Speaker 2: I don't think it's naive. I do believe that we

1795
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 2: are in a paradigm shift and a lot of the

1796
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:31,200
Speaker 2: air quote fuc shitttery that we're experiencing right now is

1797
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:35,520
Speaker 2: kind of a dying spirit grasping.

1798
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:38,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're hanging, They're hanging off of the mountain by

1799
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 3: their fingernails, all this completely crazy stuff, and you have

1800
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 3: to believe that to have any hope. And it's like

1801
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:46,320
Speaker 3: we just have to step on them.

1802
01:32:46,360 --> 01:32:50,439
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm a serial manifesto. I have no worries.

1803
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:53,040
Speaker 2: I sleep at night because I know what's going to happen,

1804
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 2: and it's up to us. Those who are gen X,

1805
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 2: those boom are still alive to adjust to it, and

1806
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:03,799
Speaker 2: you're seeing a lot of people not wanting to adjust

1807
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:07,680
Speaker 2: to where we are now in twenty twenty four. But

1808
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 2: for you, do you imagine that there will be a

1809
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:16,360
Speaker 2: day where there will be no more struggle, where righteous

1810
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:26,280
Speaker 2: women are taking the lead and toxic mail energy has eroded? Like,

1811
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 2: do you imagine a future in which it's ideal for you?

1812
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:33,200
Speaker 3: I live in that future because I.

1813
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:34,280
Speaker 1: That's how you survive.

1814
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I surround myself with positive people a

1815
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 3: lot of times when I experienced sexism now which idea,

1816
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:42,439
Speaker 3: I actually just went through a thing where I had

1817
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 3: to fire somebody, but it was like I was so

1818
01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:50,519
Speaker 3: shocked by the there's certain men you just cannot work

1819
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 3: with women, and it's just really wild when you come

1820
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:57,920
Speaker 3: en counter with them. It's sort of like if somebody

1821
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 3: comes to do work at at the house and they're like,

1822
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:03,880
Speaker 3: is the man of the house at home?

1823
01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:05,960
Speaker 1: You know, like cas to your husband?

1824
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like that kind of thing, or like people

1825
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:10,160
Speaker 3: who will only talk to Adam and they don't look

1826
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 3: at me, which I actually find totally gratifying because I

1827
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:14,439
Speaker 3: like to just be able. It means I can watch,

1828
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 3: you know, and I'm kind of like I like to observe,

1829
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:20,360
Speaker 3: So I'm fine with that in a way, although you know,

1830
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:25,160
Speaker 3: it can be very annoying. But in my head, I'm

1831
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 3: around all these amazing creative people who that's not the thing.

1832
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 3: Like they're not asking me what it's like to be

1833
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:34,040
Speaker 3: a woman in a band, you know, they don't give

1834
01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:36,559
Speaker 3: a shit, Like they're just like, we're making art and

1835
01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:39,480
Speaker 3: we're doing this stuff and we're going to you know,

1836
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:42,760
Speaker 3: turn each other on to great art and like do

1837
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:45,240
Speaker 3: all that. So it's like I know what's going I

1838
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 3: know what's going on in the world. I mean not like,

1839
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not a scholar on politics or anything,

1840
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:55,040
Speaker 3: but like I deeply care about what's going on in

1841
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 3: the world and it is really really awful right now

1842
01:34:57,960 --> 01:34:59,720
Speaker 3: and I can't separate myself from that. But at the

1843
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 3: same time time in my day to day, when I

1844
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 3: encounter stuff like, you know, really bad sexism, I don't

1845
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:08,840
Speaker 3: even understand what's happening anymore. Like I'm just like, I

1846
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:12,120
Speaker 3: don't even you are you a dinosaur from Jurassic Park?

1847
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:14,200
Speaker 3: Like I don't know what you're talking about. Like it's

1848
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:17,439
Speaker 3: so confusing when it happens, and I think it's it's

1849
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 3: really weird when I've managed to create a tight knit

1850
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:23,760
Speaker 3: group of people who like I just we're not sitting

1851
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 3: around talking about you know, if we're fuckable, you know

1852
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:28,439
Speaker 3: what I mean?

1853
01:35:28,600 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 1: Like got it?

1854
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:32,960
Speaker 3: It's just like I don't. I just try to live

1855
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:37,439
Speaker 3: in my own fantasy land of like what can be possible.

1856
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:39,280
Speaker 3: And I know from my groups of friends and from

1857
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:42,280
Speaker 3: people that I meet on tour that like that world

1858
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:45,280
Speaker 3: is possible. I believe in that world. But right now,

1859
01:35:45,320 --> 01:35:47,320
Speaker 3: we don't live in a post racial society. We don't

1860
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 3: live in a post sexist society. We don't live And

1861
01:35:50,479 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 3: that's the thing that's really frustrating that a lot of people,

1862
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:55,320
Speaker 3: there's a really big difference from creating something that you

1863
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 3: can survive within, like an artistic community that you're thriving

1864
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:02,840
Speaker 3: and being challenged and pretending that stuff doesn't exist, and

1865
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:05,000
Speaker 3: putting your head in the sand, do you know what

1866
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:06,840
Speaker 3: I mean? Like, like you have to be able to

1867
01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:10,000
Speaker 3: kind of traverse between those two different things where you're

1868
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:12,439
Speaker 3: like really yourself as an individual and really a part

1869
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:14,519
Speaker 3: of a community, and the part of you is an

1870
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:17,400
Speaker 3: individual feeds a community, and the community feeds the part

1871
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:20,160
Speaker 3: of youth that's an individual as opposed to seeing it

1872
01:36:20,200 --> 01:36:23,400
Speaker 3: as a either or you know, either I'm a total

1873
01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:26,360
Speaker 3: hedonistic like you know, Eric Clapton, like jacking off on

1874
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 3: the guitar, or I'm strictly a political activist. It's like

1875
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:33,320
Speaker 3: those things aren't separate in my life anymore. They used

1876
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:35,160
Speaker 3: to be, and that caused me a lot of strife.

1877
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:38,240
Speaker 3: So anytime that I was enjoying it was like, oh,

1878
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:40,519
Speaker 3: somebody's going to and I think it's also psychological. I

1879
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:42,800
Speaker 3: felt like somebody's gonna take this away from me, you know,

1880
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:45,040
Speaker 3: I think it's fascinating. Like writing the book that I

1881
01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:48,040
Speaker 3: learned psychological, I was like, you know, it's really funny

1882
01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 3: is that I grew up in a family like my

1883
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:52,920
Speaker 3: dad is like it was like very much a person

1884
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:55,120
Speaker 3: who would just when you were right on the top

1885
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:56,720
Speaker 3: of the mountain, he'd like, knock you off, you know

1886
01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:58,559
Speaker 3: what I mean. It's like, wait till you're like really

1887
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:00,320
Speaker 3: in a positive place. And so every time I'm in

1888
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:02,640
Speaker 3: a positive place in my life, I'm waiting for to

1889
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:05,000
Speaker 3: get knocked off, right, I'm waiting for the rug to

1890
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:08,360
Speaker 3: get pulled out from sure, I mean, and I but

1891
01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 3: I see it now. I see it. I'm like, I'm

1892
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:13,040
Speaker 3: I'm just starting like something great happens to me, and

1893
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:15,599
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I'm just waiting for the backlash, which

1894
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:18,160
Speaker 3: is normal awesome, or I'm just waiting for the drug

1895
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 3: to get pulled out from under me and then but

1896
01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:21,559
Speaker 3: now I can sit with it and be like, I

1897
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:24,880
Speaker 3: know where that comes from. That comes from growing up

1898
01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:28,240
Speaker 3: in this situation. It comes from I start getting attention

1899
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:32,600
Speaker 3: and then my community turns on me. Someone punches me

1900
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:35,120
Speaker 3: in the face and threatens me. You know, people are

1901
01:37:35,160 --> 01:37:37,479
Speaker 3: like being like really weird, and I'm super confused. I'm

1902
01:37:37,479 --> 01:37:41,920
Speaker 3: watching friends die Like I associated being myself and really

1903
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 3: being large with like getting in trouble, And now I'm

1904
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:48,680
Speaker 3: able to just do that and be like, you know what,

1905
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:52,360
Speaker 3: I can't control other people's behavior. If I'm gonna, you know,

1906
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:54,599
Speaker 3: really be putting out my art the way I want

1907
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:56,160
Speaker 3: to and be doing the things and saying the things

1908
01:37:56,160 --> 01:37:57,479
Speaker 3: that I want to, and people are going to come

1909
01:37:57,520 --> 01:37:59,640
Speaker 3: after me, so be it. What am I going to

1910
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:02,320
Speaker 3: I can't control other people's behavior anymore, So I'm not

1911
01:38:02,360 --> 01:38:05,360
Speaker 3: going to like shrink myself to avoid the rug getting

1912
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:07,479
Speaker 3: pulled out from under me. Go ahead, try to pull

1913
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:08,920
Speaker 3: the rug out from under me. I dare you.

1914
01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:15,520
Speaker 1: I have three questions left.

1915
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:17,640
Speaker 3: If you mean the question, I want to talk to

1916
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:20,760
Speaker 3: you about music. I am. We're going to come over

1917
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:22,640
Speaker 3: to your apartment and like sit outside and just like

1918
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:23,960
Speaker 3: sit on your stupid be.

1919
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:27,920
Speaker 1: Like, dude, come back here, talk to me about Tony DeFranco.

1920
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:29,760
Speaker 1: I welcome it.

1921
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:33,320
Speaker 2: If you were given the power to change one thing

1922
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:37,080
Speaker 2: from your past, what would you change?

1923
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:40,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I should just give you the honest answer instead.

1924
01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:43,960
Speaker 1: Of like, what's the honest answer?

1925
01:38:44,320 --> 01:38:46,000
Speaker 3: See, if I think about it, it's going to be

1926
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:47,920
Speaker 3: something really deep. But the first thing that comes to

1927
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:54,360
Speaker 3: mind is I would have taken more time recording the

1928
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:58,360
Speaker 3: Bikini Hill Records, the first two Bikini Hill records, because

1929
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:03,240
Speaker 3: the idea was like, go in and play like it's

1930
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:07,320
Speaker 3: a live show. Don't put stuff on your voice, because

1931
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:11,479
Speaker 3: that's like putting panteos over your hairy legs or something,

1932
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:13,120
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like like that, I was

1933
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:15,400
Speaker 3: like trying to be like so raw that other people

1934
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 3: could relate to it. And it's not that I still

1935
01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:21,400
Speaker 3: don't keep like mistakes when they're cool in stuff that

1936
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:24,800
Speaker 3: I put out, but it's like I wish we would

1937
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:27,880
Speaker 3: have taken a little more time because performing those songs

1938
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:30,800
Speaker 3: live and then knowing what they sound like on record,

1939
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:32,680
Speaker 3: Like I can't even listen to them because they're just

1940
01:39:32,720 --> 01:39:35,559
Speaker 3: recorded so poorly, especially this one record that was recorded

1941
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:38,519
Speaker 3: on four truck on a tape that somebody else had

1942
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:41,120
Speaker 3: used so you could hear the other band in the band.

1943
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 1: That's so real to me, man, And.

1944
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:49,400
Speaker 3: Like literally we spent seventeen dollars recording this record. It

1945
01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:51,800
Speaker 3: was a split record with Huggy Bear, and their side

1946
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:55,120
Speaker 3: sounds fantastic and our side sounds like shit. And like,

1947
01:39:55,439 --> 01:39:57,840
Speaker 3: if I could go back and redo those because there's

1948
01:39:57,840 --> 01:39:59,920
Speaker 3: all these great songs, some Jigsaw youth I really loved

1949
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:03,479
Speaker 3: performing live, and there's not a great recorded version of it,

1950
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:06,559
Speaker 3: and so like I can't. I don't want to go

1951
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:09,080
Speaker 3: back in the studio and record it. Now that's weird.

1952
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:12,120
Speaker 3: I can't, like, you know, change history. And those records

1953
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 3: sound the way they sound because of the time and

1954
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:16,799
Speaker 3: because of you know, we didn't have any money and whatever.

1955
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:20,439
Speaker 3: But I didn't understand yet that the recording process was

1956
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:25,200
Speaker 3: a different art than live. I was all about the

1957
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 3: live show to the point of like, let's capture the

1958
01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:30,400
Speaker 3: live show, like a snapshot, like you know, Henry Braisson,

1959
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:32,439
Speaker 3: Like on the street they taking snapshots of people, like

1960
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:35,439
Speaker 3: I was trying to like get a snapshot. But then

1961
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:37,600
Speaker 3: when I'd learned about the art of recording and I

1962
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:39,479
Speaker 3: got in got my first four track and then my

1963
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:45,280
Speaker 3: first aid track, I was like, oh, this is a

1964
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:47,240
Speaker 3: you know, it's the difference between an essay and a

1965
01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:52,040
Speaker 3: play or you know, it's a different thing. And I

1966
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:56,880
Speaker 3: wasn't exploiting what I could do with those songs on

1967
01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:59,200
Speaker 3: the record, and so I would go back. I wish

1968
01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:03,840
Speaker 3: I had said something really smart about Oh.

1969
01:41:03,640 --> 01:41:06,439
Speaker 1: That was honest. Yeah, I except that that's.

1970
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:09,680
Speaker 3: Really that's something that that that bugs me, like you

1971
01:41:09,680 --> 01:41:10,439
Speaker 3: know once a week.

1972
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:19,200
Speaker 2: Okay, five non greatest hits, five non box set, five

1973
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:21,599
Speaker 2: non live albums.

1974
01:41:21,800 --> 01:41:24,640
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so bad at lists because I have like

1975
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:27,439
Speaker 3: brain stuff. So I don't know if I can do it.

1976
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:31,160
Speaker 2: Don't say that, just say it. See I used to

1977
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:34,720
Speaker 2: do the House on fire. You can only say five records,

1978
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:37,479
Speaker 2: but it can't be box set, it can't be live,

1979
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:42,559
Speaker 2: and it can't be greatest hits, five albums that are

1980
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,160
Speaker 2: in your lifetime capsule.

1981
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:47,719
Speaker 3: I just say an artist because I can never remember

1982
01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:52,080
Speaker 3: which album is the one that I really like everything. Okay,

1983
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:57,400
Speaker 3: it would probably be Sharda I probably, or.

1984
01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:00,920
Speaker 1: The blue album Stronger and Pride.

1985
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:03,800
Speaker 3: Or the onely Smooth Operator on it.

1986
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:08,400
Speaker 1: Her first debut, the first one did they pronounced? Okay,

1987
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:10,960
Speaker 1: that's number one.

1988
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:13,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. When I was in high school, I was like,

1989
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:15,040
Speaker 3: my mom went to see her and I was like,

1990
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:19,719
Speaker 3: are you going to see Sade? Say so, yeah, probably

1991
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 3: Chardy is somebody who I I just come back to

1992
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:26,400
Speaker 3: over and over and over. The other would be yeas

1993
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:34,960
Speaker 3: upstairs at Eric's, Yeah as you because they had to

1994
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:37,680
Speaker 3: change their name because there's another band, so they were

1995
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:40,519
Speaker 3: Yazdoo and then they were like, yeahs uk or something.

1996
01:42:40,880 --> 01:42:42,240
Speaker 1: I got three.

1997
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:44,280
Speaker 3: So that I'm just trying to think of, Like what

1998
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 3: I actually listened listen to?

1999
01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:50,640
Speaker 2: Yes, not the impressive the impressed US list? What you

2000
01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 2: actually listened to clinic?

2001
01:42:54,200 --> 01:42:56,880
Speaker 3: What is the name of the album? It's like, because

2002
01:42:56,920 --> 01:42:59,200
Speaker 3: I have all my stuff on shuffle, so I'm never

2003
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:01,680
Speaker 3: sure what that is anymore. The blue album with the

2004
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:02,679
Speaker 3: yellow on it.

2005
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:06,040
Speaker 1: With distortions on it. Oh, the blue album it's blue

2006
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:07,400
Speaker 1: and yellow, not.

2007
01:43:07,320 --> 01:43:09,880
Speaker 3: Fantasy that was titled I literally do have like a

2008
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:11,679
Speaker 3: memory problem.

2009
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:16,720
Speaker 2: So Fantasy Island. I've see clinic Fantasy Island. It's blue

2010
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:17,519
Speaker 2: and yellow, but.

2011
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:19,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, that's it. I didn't know it's called fancy Island.

2012
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:23,240
Speaker 3: I had no idea, Okay, that clinic Fanacy Island. Five

2013
01:43:24,120 --> 01:43:28,160
Speaker 3: Isaac Cay's Live at the Sierra Sarah.

2014
01:43:29,439 --> 01:43:33,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, his uh Ain't No Sunshine is a great cover well,

2015
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:33,360
Speaker 1: and the.

2016
01:43:33,320 --> 01:43:36,120
Speaker 3: Whole the I think about the lead in to use

2017
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:40,920
Speaker 3: Me all the time. Yeah, because it's that thing of

2018
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:45,479
Speaker 3: where you're turning something that is supposedly really negative into

2019
01:43:45,479 --> 01:43:47,280
Speaker 3: something where he's like, if you're going to use me,

2020
01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:51,000
Speaker 3: then so be it, right, And I think about that

2021
01:43:51,080 --> 01:43:52,920
Speaker 3: in like the weirdest times of like when I get

2022
01:43:53,320 --> 01:43:55,320
Speaker 3: asked to be like the woman on the panel at

2023
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:58,920
Speaker 3: the last minute, right and I'm getting paid like half

2024
01:43:59,080 --> 01:44:00,680
Speaker 3: what the men are getting paid, and I'm like, if

2025
01:44:00,720 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 3: you are going to use me, so be it, as

2026
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:04,519
Speaker 3: long as I get paid.

2027
01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:06,760
Speaker 1: Now, that's a classic album. I like it.

2028
01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:08,720
Speaker 3: So We're at what are Where are we at?

2029
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:09,280
Speaker 1: That was five?

2030
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:13,439
Speaker 3: Oh God, I could go on forever. But if I

2031
01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:15,879
Speaker 3: really was on a desert island, I would need Strawberry

2032
01:44:15,880 --> 01:44:19,439
Speaker 3: Shortcake Live at the Big Apple Disco to keep me laughing?

2033
01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:20,759
Speaker 1: You lovely?

2034
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:23,080
Speaker 3: Where do you have you heard it?

2035
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:24,599
Speaker 1: I've not heard it.

2036
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:26,519
Speaker 3: I have two copies.

2037
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:29,799
Speaker 1: Strawberry Shortcake made a disco record live at.

2038
01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 3: The Big Apple Disco. There's a song called Strawberry SHORTCAKEE

2039
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:36,800
Speaker 3: rap on it. I take this album deadly serious. I

2040
01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:39,360
Speaker 3: saw a thirteen year old girl acted out in front

2041
01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:42,640
Speaker 3: of me when I was really high, and it was

2042
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:44,960
Speaker 3: one of the best experiences, one of the best after

2043
01:44:45,160 --> 01:44:48,679
Speaker 3: show experiences I've ever had. And then I just started

2044
01:44:48,680 --> 01:44:51,759
Speaker 3: buying it and every time I see it, I buy it.

2045
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:54,760
Speaker 3: It's so good because like the story she comes from,

2046
01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:57,439
Speaker 3: like Strawberry Land to New York City and it's her

2047
01:44:57,439 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 3: whole story. And then there's this one song where she's

2048
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 3: clearly on PCP on a roof. So I'm just saying I.

2049
01:45:04,520 --> 01:45:09,759
Speaker 2: Didn't know her entire like catalog is on Spotify, Okay, great.

2050
01:45:10,439 --> 01:45:12,920
Speaker 3: I trolled her on Instagram. That's the only thing I

2051
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 3: do on Instagram is I troll the Strawberry Shortcake account.

2052
01:45:16,160 --> 01:45:18,000
Speaker 3: Like they're like, it's like her and her Berry friends.

2053
01:45:18,040 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 3: They're like riding a bike and they're like, we're riding

2054
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:22,280
Speaker 3: into an empowered future for women, and I was like,

2055
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:24,400
Speaker 3: just don't get pregnant in Texas, Strawberry.

2056
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:25,280
Speaker 1: Nice.

2057
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:27,880
Speaker 3: I'm an adult who's like trolling a car. I love

2058
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:30,719
Speaker 3: the idea of cartoon characters, Like we used to sample

2059
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:32,360
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff from I'm not going to say

2060
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 3: who it is, but from cartoons. Uh in one of

2061
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:37,640
Speaker 3: my bands, and I was like, what are they going

2062
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:40,599
Speaker 3: to do? Sue us? I would picture the cartoon character

2063
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:45,879
Speaker 3: showing up in court. I'd bean like, gonna have deputy

2064
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:47,479
Speaker 3: dogs going to show up and sue me.

2065
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:49,200
Speaker 1: Oh, Trusky.

2066
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:54,559
Speaker 2: The cartoons are litigious. Okay, you married the person that

2067
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:58,440
Speaker 2: started his career making fun.

2068
01:45:58,280 --> 01:45:59,639
Speaker 3: Of I knew this was coming.

2069
01:46:01,120 --> 01:46:05,639
Speaker 2: You married university started his career making fun of a cake. Anyway,

2070
01:46:06,439 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 2: last question of everything that you've achieved, Like for you,

2071
01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:16,520
Speaker 2: what is the one thing that you're proudest to celebrate

2072
01:46:16,920 --> 01:46:19,759
Speaker 2: of what you've done with your life?

2073
01:46:20,800 --> 01:46:23,439
Speaker 3: I mean today, I'm pretty proud to know that, Like

2074
01:46:23,840 --> 01:46:25,800
Speaker 3: I had an effect on Rich, and then Rich had

2075
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:28,000
Speaker 3: an effect on you, like I would have never in

2076
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:31,000
Speaker 3: a million years guessed that like that I had any

2077
01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:33,559
Speaker 3: kind of effect of that on the roots. Like when

2078
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:35,599
Speaker 3: I came to New York, oudam one of our most

2079
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:37,519
Speaker 3: romantic dates that I'll remember for the rest of my

2080
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 3: life was when he took me to see you all

2081
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:41,880
Speaker 3: in New York when I first moved there, and like

2082
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:45,000
Speaker 3: we were like, I mean, I was only thirty, but

2083
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:48,559
Speaker 3: we were like old people slow dancing in the back

2084
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 3: and it was like, you are so good live and

2085
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:56,400
Speaker 3: I was just like it was the best show. And

2086
01:46:56,479 --> 01:47:00,280
Speaker 3: like to think that stuff I did had any kind

2087
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:03,559
Speaker 3: of influence on you, and like I followed your career,

2088
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 3: like Summer Soul is like a huge movie in my life.

2089
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:09,200
Speaker 3: You probably didn't see it, but of course I wrote

2090
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:12,280
Speaker 3: you like a huge gushing you know, DM, like just like,

2091
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:14,840
Speaker 3: oh my god, you know, like that footage I can

2092
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 3: watch that a million times is so great. And to

2093
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:21,040
Speaker 3: see somebody who's like I hate branding, I hate the

2094
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:23,240
Speaker 3: phrase using your platform, I hate all that stuff. But

2095
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:25,600
Speaker 3: to see somebody who's able to still be like so

2096
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:31,040
Speaker 3: vital and creative within this like hustle till you die world,

2097
01:47:31,280 --> 01:47:35,880
Speaker 3: it's it's really inspirational. So I think inspiring you at

2098
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:38,600
Speaker 3: all and having any kind of bit to do with

2099
01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:43,719
Speaker 3: your creativity is kind of those stories that is that

2100
01:47:43,800 --> 01:47:47,280
Speaker 3: And like you know a girl who told me. I

2101
01:47:47,320 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 3: helped her get through you know, her pastor sexually assaulting

2102
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:55,240
Speaker 3: art and that listening to you know, records that I

2103
01:47:55,320 --> 01:47:58,400
Speaker 3: was on and reading stuff that I I said in

2104
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:00,519
Speaker 3: interviews made her tell our parents parents, and then her

2105
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:02,960
Speaker 3: parents were really supportive. And then her parents came to

2106
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:05,040
Speaker 3: the show with her and they all thanked me. That

2107
01:48:05,200 --> 01:48:09,519
Speaker 3: was a moment. Wow, you know, having a family, having

2108
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:11,960
Speaker 3: a mom say thank you for being there for my daughter.

2109
01:48:12,040 --> 01:48:13,719
Speaker 3: I was there for her as much as I could,

2110
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:16,519
Speaker 3: but you were there in this one little spot that

2111
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:20,720
Speaker 3: I couldn't reach, and I was like a family And

2112
01:48:21,200 --> 01:48:23,559
Speaker 3: this isn't you know? This is like more modern times

2113
01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:26,960
Speaker 3: Like in the past few years. I never you know

2114
01:48:27,000 --> 01:48:29,479
Speaker 3: when when Bikini Kill first started, like crazy things happened,

2115
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:32,320
Speaker 3: like a woman who worked at a juvenile detention center

2116
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:34,640
Speaker 3: got all the juvie girls to come to one of

2117
01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:37,479
Speaker 3: our shows for a field trip. Like those were the

2118
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:39,799
Speaker 3: kooky things that happened that I was like, this is amazing.

2119
01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:43,680
Speaker 3: But nowadays to have to see a family supporting a

2120
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:49,520
Speaker 3: child who has experienced sexual assault is like really gratifying.

2121
01:48:49,560 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 3: It makes me feel like the world can change and

2122
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:52,479
Speaker 3: can keep changing for the better.

2123
01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:58,080
Speaker 1: Kathleen I thank you for this long what would do conversation?

2124
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:00,760
Speaker 3: I want to do one where reach just talk about

2125
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:03,559
Speaker 3: records and talk about music. So I'm gonna I'm going

2126
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:05,640
Speaker 3: to start a podcast and you're gonna be my first time, and.

2127
01:49:05,640 --> 01:49:09,360
Speaker 1: Then I'll be your first guest. I promise, I promise. No,

2128
01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:10,360
Speaker 1: thank you for doing this.

2129
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:13,960
Speaker 2: Give your regards to Adam, who will be a future

2130
01:49:13,960 --> 01:49:14,719
Speaker 2: guest on the show.

2131
01:49:15,680 --> 01:49:17,200
Speaker 3: He has lets to say about em.

2132
01:49:18,360 --> 01:49:20,479
Speaker 1: And I know, I was like, wow, he puts you

2133
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:23,160
Speaker 1: on the MC sid from and he.

2134
01:49:23,320 --> 01:49:25,160
Speaker 3: I had that record and he was like, oh my god,

2135
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:27,040
Speaker 3: how do you have this record? And I was like,

2136
01:49:27,240 --> 01:49:29,639
Speaker 3: because I like the cover. He's so cute on the cover.

2137
01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:34,759
Speaker 3: But apparently his DJ can eat ten eggs at one sitting,

2138
01:49:35,080 --> 01:49:41,000
Speaker 3: so you weirdos. I know whatever. We'll hang out some time.

2139
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:42,760
Speaker 3: But thank you so much for having me on. It's

2140
01:49:42,920 --> 01:49:45,400
Speaker 3: joy and I really appreciate it and it's just a

2141
01:49:45,400 --> 01:49:46,400
Speaker 3: fun way to spend a day.

2142
01:49:46,880 --> 01:49:47,479
Speaker 1: Thank you.

2143
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:51,599
Speaker 2: And on beef of the q S Bam Layah, I'm paid,

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Speaker 2: Bill and Sugar Steve and shout out to you written Jake,

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Speaker 2: this quest love and we'll see you on the next goroground.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for listening to the Quest Love Supreme,

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Speaker 2: hosted by Amir quest Love Thompson, Liah Saint Clair, Sugar,

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Speaker 2: Steve Mandel, and unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are America

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Speaker 2: Quest Love Thompson, Sean ch and Brian Calhoun. Produced by

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Speaker 2: Brittany Benjamin Cousin, Jake Payne and Liah Saint Clair. Edited

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Speaker 2: by Alex Conway. Produced by iHeart by Noel Brown.

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Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of Iheartened Radio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.