Speaker 1: During the first presidential debate in September, Joe Biden dismissed
Speaker 1: Antifa as an idea, not an organization. Well, that idea
Speaker 1: forced my guests to flee the country after Antifa repeatedly
Speaker 1: threatened his life. This is Outliwed with Gianno calledwell, welcome
Speaker 1: back to Allow with Gianno Calledwell, I've got an awesome
Speaker 1: show for you guys this week. My guest is Andy No,
Speaker 1: a journalist and editor of the Post Millennial. Andy is
Speaker 1: also the author to newly release New York Times bestselling
Speaker 1: book titled Unmasked Inside Antifa's radical Plan to destroy Democracy.
Speaker 1: This must read book draws upon Andy's extensive research and
Speaker 1: experience covering Antifa on the front lines. He tells the
Speaker 1: story of Antifa's history and tactics as a violent extremist
Speaker 1: movement right here in the United States. Today, I hear
Speaker 1: from someone who's been attacked and repeatedly threatened by Antifa extremists.
Speaker 1: We also discuss what happened last summer between Antifa and
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter during the George Floyd protests, which turned
Speaker 1: into riots across the country. Let's go, Andy No. I
Speaker 1: am so honored to have you on outlued with Giano
Speaker 1: called well today, how are you doing? I'm okay, it's
Speaker 1: a pleasure to be speaking with you. Thank you. I
Speaker 1: want to start with a simple question, and it's one
Speaker 1: I think a lot of Americans may not even be
Speaker 1: aware of what exactly Antifa is. Joe Biden called it
Speaker 1: an idea, not an organization. The former FBI director Christopher
Speaker 1: Ray described it as more of an ideology or a
Speaker 1: movement than an organization. How do you define Antifa? So
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily how I define it, it's actually how
Speaker 1: they define themselves Antifa. It's also a movement made up
Speaker 1: of networks of groups and cells who followed this violence
Speaker 1: extremist ideology UM, which the eupheanistically call anti fascism. But
Speaker 1: it's anarchist communism with a revolutionary agenda. And so I
Speaker 1: think what can be confusing for the average layman in
Speaker 1: UM journalists as well who write about politics, is that
Speaker 1: because ANTIPA organized as essentially phantom cells, there's always a
Speaker 1: sort of plausible deniability in their existence. And that's by
Speaker 1: intention UM. But you can look at some of the
Speaker 1: groups that are organized as formal organizations like Rose City Antifa,
Speaker 1: which I write about extensively in my book because they're
Speaker 1: one of the largest selves in the United States, based
Speaker 1: in Portland, where I do most of my reporting and
Speaker 1: where I'm from, and you'll see that there. They have
Speaker 1: a formal membership process that involves a six month vetting
Speaker 1: process where recruits get radicalized. Over time, they get introduced
Speaker 1: to training on how to endure and made their opponents,
Speaker 1: and there's also training on how to take up arms.
Speaker 1: So it's not we're not just dealing with people who
Speaker 1: are quote anti fascists, were really dealing with an ideology
Speaker 1: that is calling for the overthrow of the United States,
Speaker 1: and its adherents carry out outs of terrorism to further
Speaker 1: that goal, to get closer to that goal. Do you think,
Speaker 1: and we know this is a very extreme movement, would
Speaker 1: you consider them domestic terrorists at all? I know President
Speaker 1: Trump was discussing the idea of designating them a domestic
Speaker 1: terrorist group. It feels to me, and when I read
Speaker 1: the reporting, when I see what they do, if this
Speaker 1: is a group of domestic terrorists, and I would like
Speaker 1: to know, especially since you spent so much time on
Speaker 1: the ground covering them, would you agree with that assessment
Speaker 1: that they should be designated as a domestic terrorist group. Yes,
Speaker 1: and it's not just me. I mean, people can dismiss
Speaker 1: my opinions on it, but they should look at the
Speaker 1: internal memos that were published by political of the Department
Speaker 1: of Homeland Security, and they describe the actions of Antifa
Speaker 1: groups as um domestic terrorists activities. That's significant, and very
Speaker 1: few people are aware of it. Um. Regarding this label though,
Speaker 1: I lament that it's being thrown around just as sort
Speaker 1: of um uh, like a political volleyball, like you hear
Speaker 1: it use a lot from both the left and right
Speaker 1: now just to describe any individual group that they disagree with,
Speaker 1: and it's making it lose a lot of meaning. You're seeing,
Speaker 1: for example, the label terrorism applied to Trump supporters or
Speaker 1: people who peacefully came to listen to Trump speak on
Speaker 1: the sixth of January and implying that scene label too, ah,
Speaker 1: any anybody who just expressed support for him at some point. Um.
Speaker 1: But I do consider Antifa a domestic terrorists organization because
Speaker 1: as I write and en masked with some of these
Speaker 1: primary documents, you can see that their training, it doesn't
Speaker 1: just radicalize people until having a ideological base, a theological
Speaker 1: ideological basis for UM their acts of violence. They also
Speaker 1: teach their followers how to do it. So you can
Speaker 1: look at the riots that they were involved in Portland
Speaker 1: was particularly egregious because they the riots happened for more
Speaker 1: than a hundred and twenty days, night after night after night. UH,
Speaker 1: and they were setting fires to buildings where people onside
Speaker 1: police were inside. UM. They tried to barricade police stations
Speaker 1: with quick drawing cement and then set the fire, set
Speaker 1: the building on fire. UM. As I'm speaking to you now,
Speaker 1: last than twenty four hours ago in Portland, Oregon, the
Speaker 1: anti fur gathered outside the police union building and try
Speaker 1: to tear down the front door to get inside. So
Speaker 1: UM they bring guns, they bring nines, they bring I E.
Speaker 1: D S. They give out weapons and explosives to people
Speaker 1: to use at the rides so as well. So it's
Speaker 1: a very sophisticated UM act of organized maths violence that
Speaker 1: is meant to destabilize UM the state, and they have
Speaker 1: particular have had quite success, I would say, in Portland,
Speaker 1: in Seattle, and that at times they've been able to
Speaker 1: actually claim territory as sovereign, if you will, So you
Speaker 1: can look at the chads. That was in Seattle last year,
Speaker 1: which scancer Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. They took over six
Speaker 1: city blocks of an area in nearby downtown and they
Speaker 1: actually set up a hard border with checkpoints. It was
Speaker 1: guarded by their so called security. These people had rifles
Speaker 1: and other weapons that they were brandishing. You had to
Speaker 1: go do the checkpoints to go in, So if you
Speaker 1: happen to live in that area, you were essentially one
Speaker 1: of the hostages. And that was allowed to go on
Speaker 1: for several weeks and it devolved until many shootings and
Speaker 1: several murders. In December, anton selling was established in Portland
Speaker 1: for a week UM. As recently as a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago, the ANTIFA and Washington State UM took over
Speaker 1: a Red Lion hotel and created a hostage situation involving
Speaker 1: some forty occupied rooms. And according to the hotel staff,
Speaker 1: the Antifa we're bringing in hatchets and batons and nines
Speaker 1: and other weapons. So we're having these these insurrectionary activities
Speaker 1: being done in the open, but they're not being covered
Speaker 1: as such in by i mean stream media or the
Speaker 1: legacy press UM, so people just unaware of it. I
Speaker 1: think if you're going to if people are going to
Speaker 1: describe what happened on the sixth of January as an
Speaker 1: up as an insurrection or uprising, whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call it, you should apply that same label then to
Speaker 1: people who do similar things and worse, such as what
Speaker 1: the antiphone the BLM did and do. Then let me
Speaker 1: ask you this, because I've seen some reporting that at
Speaker 1: least suggested that there were white supremacists within the Antifa movement.
Speaker 1: Have you seen any evidence of that antiphone? Whenever they
Speaker 1: are involved in really violent activities against either property or people, um,
Speaker 1: some of them go out and try to say it's
Speaker 1: a false flag. I haven't found evidence for that that
Speaker 1: they are actually people, evidence for the claim that people
Speaker 1: on the far right are pretending to be Antifa to
Speaker 1: blame criminal activities on them. When I was beaten by
Speaker 1: Antifa and twenty nineteen the game Your Brain Homorrhage, the
Speaker 1: anti fun have quite negative press coverage for that because
Speaker 1: they attacked a person of the press in downtown and
Speaker 1: then they started this rumor that these were a secret
Speaker 1: right wingers who were beating me up to frame Anti
Speaker 1: fat So antifil, always trying to deny their involving in
Speaker 1: criminal activities. In regards to are they're like um, Antifa
Speaker 1: frequently get accused of being racist, even though they claim
Speaker 1: to be anti racist, because the type of um hatred
Speaker 1: that they show for people of color who are conservative
Speaker 1: or Trump supporters is just as vicious and violent as
Speaker 1: for anybody else. So important, and last year, for example,
Speaker 1: there was a black conservative activist, mean Andrew Duncomm who
Speaker 1: went to Portland and he got stabbed by to fund number.
Speaker 1: And so they do violence against black people, against people
Speaker 1: of color, against gay minorities of color such as myself. UM,
Speaker 1: as long as if you have the wrong world view,
Speaker 1: or if they think you have an opposing view to them,
Speaker 1: they will in violence against you and even potentially try
Speaker 1: to kill you. So quite likely that there are white
Speaker 1: supremacists that are members of the antifa movement, and certainly
Speaker 1: they've been embraced there from what it appears to be.
Speaker 1: I want to turn to the Democratic Party and the
Speaker 1: refusal of many Democrats even to acknowledge Antifa exist. But
Speaker 1: first here's a quick word from our sponsor. Now I
Speaker 1: want to ask you this question, do they care who
Speaker 1: leadership is? They obviously were anti Trump and appearing to
Speaker 1: be very providing people or is it just about chaos.
Speaker 1: It's just about chaos. This perception that these are bidens
Speaker 1: important as is wrong. I hear that a lot on
Speaker 1: the right, and I know people want to use it
Speaker 1: to try to near Biden because his administration hasn't um
Speaker 1: done much even in condemning Antifa. But if you listen
Speaker 1: to an antifate actually say themselves, they don't recognize any
Speaker 1: American government. This is the anarchist side of their anaxis
Speaker 1: communist ideology. So we've had now more than a dozen
Speaker 1: riots in the Pacific Northwest since it was known that
Speaker 1: Biden had one, and some people were puzzled at the time,
Speaker 1: They're like, why are Antifa rioting and Biden want why
Speaker 1: did they smash up the DNC headquarters in Portland. They
Speaker 1: do that because this so called resistance that they put
Speaker 1: up against Trump was always pretextual. It was always an
Speaker 1: excuse for the extremism. If it's not Trump, it's something else.
Speaker 1: Now that Trump's outther way, it's Biden. If it's not Biden,
Speaker 1: it's America. It's not America, it's a capitalism. They always
Speaker 1: have something that they have to um be angry about
Speaker 1: and to respond violently to. So on Inauguration Day they
Speaker 1: helped banner that said we don't want Biden, we want revenge,
Speaker 1: and there was an image of a clash Nakov rifle
Speaker 1: on that banner, and then they launched to the headquarters
Speaker 1: of the organ Democrat Party and destroyed it. And that's
Speaker 1: the second time that they had talkeeted one of the
Speaker 1: Democrat buildings in Portland. So I think Democrats are thinking
Speaker 1: that they can control anti filing use them as sort
Speaker 1: of like helpful indirect foot soldiers. They're realizing that this
Speaker 1: is gonna this is coming back to bite them. This
Speaker 1: is not something that you can control. Portland's Mayor Ted Wheeler,
Speaker 1: who's caught all Antifa for many years now. He's actually
Speaker 1: had a flee from his home because they Antifa rioting
Speaker 1: outside his home and set the building on fire at
Speaker 1: one point um last last year, and he's been assaulted
Speaker 1: in public. So um, I mean, it's it's really too late,
Speaker 1: I think for Democrats to wake up because they've allowed,
Speaker 1: they've given anti for years to develop more sophistical, sophisticated
Speaker 1: ways of organizing, better streams of funding. So um, I mean,
Speaker 1: what makes me angry is that you know, somebody like
Speaker 1: the mayor of Seattle can retire because she's not she's
Speaker 1: not running again for office. Um to Wheeler can exit
Speaker 1: office and have These people can have a good life,
Speaker 1: but the consequences of their act, their poor decision making
Speaker 1: in the cities where they were elected, is going to
Speaker 1: be felt for years down the line. And you can
Speaker 1: see when you go to these cities in the pacistic
Speaker 1: Northwest that some parts of the city are they look
Speaker 1: like slums. So you see antifas a direct link to
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, almost as if it's a gang that's
Speaker 1: affiliated with the Democratic Party, but of course much more
Speaker 1: than again as you would see like say the Gangster
Speaker 1: Disciples in Chicago or any of those localized gangs. This
Speaker 1: is a real legitimate movement with a national organization that
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party has supported in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: Is that right? No, I do not see them as
Speaker 1: directly linked to the Democrats Party. What I see them
Speaker 1: as is a violent extremist, violent extremists, buggish, ah paramilitary
Speaker 1: like group that the Democrats cynically used against their opponents
Speaker 1: on the right, Trump supporters and Trump themselves, And it
Speaker 1: was always a tenuous sort of unofficial partnership. UM. But
Speaker 1: as we are witnessing now in some places, anti Flip
Speaker 1: cannot be controlled. Their goal is not to be subjected
Speaker 1: to a Democrat run UH government. They want to seek
Speaker 1: the destruction of the republics, so they don't recognize any party,
Speaker 1: any politician. As you mentioned, you left Portland's for London
Speaker 1: because of increasing threats of violence against you buy a
Speaker 1: TIFA extremists. Are you still in London now and can
Speaker 1: you tell us about how hard it was for you
Speaker 1: to leave the country because of these threats. Ever since
Speaker 1: I was beaten in the summer of twenty nineteen, I've
Speaker 1: been subject to increasing death threats. I mean really like
Speaker 1: threats are like people posting my address and saying they'll
Speaker 1: shoot me, they'll set me on fire, and how people
Speaker 1: show up at my family's home, um, just to make
Speaker 1: me feel terrorized. Seven and all of it was reported
Speaker 1: to Portland police UH and nothing was ever done. Ever,
Speaker 1: nobody was ever arrested, for example, for the beating against
Speaker 1: me when I had the brain bleed, even though that
Speaker 1: was partially caught on video and it was actually like
Speaker 1: right in front of a police station. UM. None of
Speaker 1: the people who have sent me threats and showing about
Speaker 1: my home have been held accountable. So there's just a
Speaker 1: breakdown in the rule of law in Portland's Um. I
Speaker 1: mean it's not just me who's being affected, like the
Speaker 1: city itself. People asked like, how did the riots go
Speaker 1: on for months on end, NonStop every night, And it's
Speaker 1: because the district attorney, um were dropping charges for the rioters.
Speaker 1: The police weren't arresting people, they were staying away. So
Speaker 1: you just have this whole breakdown in water in public
Speaker 1: safety in a major American city in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 1: And I was really on borrowed time there. I stayed
Speaker 1: there because I needed to be on the ground as
Speaker 1: I was writing and researching for this book. But I
Speaker 1: put myself at great risk and I have been um
Speaker 1: there they looked from me at their protests and riots. UM.
Speaker 1: So it's uh, it's been I didn't want to leave.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is Portland, is my my hometown. But um,
Speaker 1: and the thing is like, it's not just Portlands as well.
Speaker 1: If I go to any other urban area, any city. Uh,
Speaker 1: the ANTIFI well connected to their comrades in different places
Speaker 1: and they just they just made it clear that they
Speaker 1: were hunting me down. Um, So for the time being,
Speaker 1: I've had to leave and the police there just wouldn't
Speaker 1: protect you. They wouldn't offer you any protection. After you
Speaker 1: gave suspects names and other information. Uh, they still wouldn't
Speaker 1: protect you. All they did was take a report. But
Speaker 1: that's just procedure. And then when I email and call
Speaker 1: and I was like, so did you interview this person
Speaker 1: who sent the strut to me? Um? I would always
Speaker 1: there would always be some type of excuse. Sometimes I'm
Speaker 1: told it's free speech. Apparently it's free speech to say
Speaker 1: I'm going to put a bullet in Andy. I don't
Speaker 1: know that's these other types of threats that I'm getting
Speaker 1: and it's getting treated as sort of whatever. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess I shouldn't be surprised given that. I mean,
Speaker 1: the Portland police had sort of stood back and have watched,
Speaker 1: or rather I should say, they're the people who are
Speaker 1: hiring the command chains have allowed police to stand by
Speaker 1: and watch while citizens get beaten on the streets of downtown.
Speaker 1: And what's happened for several years now. Now you mentioned
Speaker 1: the attack that you face, which happened in June and
Speaker 1: you had to be hospitalized with a serious hand injury.
Speaker 1: Can you recount that experience for us? Yes. So Ever,
Speaker 1: since sum political street violence involving ANTIFO has become really
Speaker 1: routine in Portland's. Portland's is the epicenter of American anty
Speaker 1: for organizing in and so UM. For several years I
Speaker 1: have been documenting in reports and videos and photos what
Speaker 1: was happening on the streets, and the ANTIFO became inflamed
Speaker 1: and irritated that I was writing critically about them, describing
Speaker 1: what they were doing as UM violence, wanted violence against
Speaker 1: people and property, that it had nothing to do with
Speaker 1: so called ancy fascism, that these are people who were
Speaker 1: operating essentially as a street game to intimidate the public,
Speaker 1: and so eventually it became a target. By nineteen they
Speaker 1: were routinely singling me out these public protests and riots
Speaker 1: that they were doing. Uh. And then in the summer
Speaker 1: nineteen UM, I was there recording on my OPRAH, I
Speaker 1: had my mobile phone. I was just recording, That's all
Speaker 1: I was doing, and they suddenly punched me repeatedly and
Speaker 1: kicked me. It was the punches that likely give me
Speaker 1: the brain bleed. UM there was a whole mob of them,
Speaker 1: and they were all masked, dressed in black. Um. They
Speaker 1: stole my go pro, which is my evidence. Um. And
Speaker 1: then when I was trying to leave, they then threw
Speaker 1: all these drinks and liquids in my eyes and my face.
Speaker 1: So the videos and photos from that time you'll see
Speaker 1: that I'm just dredged in all this liquid and white stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. That is an insane experience.
Speaker 1: And for people who I'm wondering, you can find that
Speaker 1: video online. It's just I mean it. It made national
Speaker 1: news that I remember it was just playing it on
Speaker 1: a loop on how violent these people really are. And
Speaker 1: it's just unbelievable that they the law enforcement there would
Speaker 1: not offer you protection considering all the things that you face,
Speaker 1: the violent threats in the actual violence. And this leads
Speaker 1: me to your recent ouped in the New York Post
Speaker 1: titled Biden won't stop them and neither wild Cops into
Speaker 1: Portland has burned down, paying a picture for our listeners
Speaker 1: about what's happening in Portland these days and what has
Speaker 1: been like over the last several months, even a couple
Speaker 1: of years. How badly is the TIFA terrorized in Portland.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned a little bit earlier about something that
Speaker 1: happened over the last twenty four hours, But is this
Speaker 1: a continuing engagement by Antifa terrorizing the city. It's treated
Speaker 1: as just sort of normal now. And that was my
Speaker 1: fear that as the riots went on and on week
Speaker 1: after week, turning two months, not the citizens would just
Speaker 1: end up sort of just a something that there are
Speaker 1: certain parts of the city at night you just don't
Speaker 1: go to because that's where I'm kind of shut down
Speaker 1: the road. The violence has has never stopped in Portland.
Speaker 1: I mean, at its peak, it was happening every night
Speaker 1: for more than four months. Then um in around October
Speaker 1: November it started to slow down just because of whether
Speaker 1: it got really cold and wet. A few of people
Speaker 1: were showing out, showing up, but the violence has still
Speaker 1: been weekly. And like I said, it was just yesterday
Speaker 1: that they tried to break inside the Portland Police Union building,
Speaker 1: so um on on. On Inauguration Day, they mass rioted.
Speaker 1: After Election Day, they just destroyed the front of a
Speaker 1: church and numerous businesses. So Antifa they're trying to they
Speaker 1: feel they have a once in a lifetime opportunity to
Speaker 1: push Portland's or any area any city passed a point
Speaker 1: of no return, like they really want to see the
Speaker 1: city economically destroyed and never able to recover because it's
Speaker 1: in these sort of devastated areas that they then claim
Speaker 1: to have legitimacy as a source of power. Um and
Speaker 1: I'm I'm scared about the future of Portland. There was
Speaker 1: a really great piece that was publishing Forbes recently that
Speaker 1: wonders if Portland will be able to recover. I mean,
Speaker 1: we were already dealing with the economic devastation from COVID
Speaker 1: policies last year, and then just as that was beginning
Speaker 1: to mildly let up at the end of May, then
Speaker 1: these riots broke out and they have continued, and they
Speaker 1: continued in some of the most important economic areas of
Speaker 1: the city in downtown. So Portland does the local first
Speaker 1: world slum in these areas that are at the heart
Speaker 1: of the city, um antifore continuing to smash out storefronts.
Speaker 1: They do that on a regular now. Police just don't
Speaker 1: have the resources or the will to confront them, and
Speaker 1: neither does anybody who's elected the city council. It's not
Speaker 1: just Portland that's dealing without Seattle is as well. Um,
Speaker 1: these are things that Antifa also trying to replicate in
Speaker 1: other places as well. So like people on the east
Speaker 1: coast of the U. S. Shouldn't be sort of just thinking, well,
Speaker 1: I mean the Pacific Northwest is far away, it's not
Speaker 1: a big deal. I mean Antifa, for example, after their
Speaker 1: violence in Minneapolis last year where they torched down neighborhoods
Speaker 1: and people were died as a result of the riots. Um,
Speaker 1: they actually published an after action report on what worked well,
Speaker 1: what didn't, what they could do better. It was a
Speaker 1: huge win for them that they were able to take
Speaker 1: over a police station in Minneapolis and to actually burn
Speaker 1: it down. That's something they were trying to repeat Importland
Speaker 1: when they try to burn down the federal courthouse and
Speaker 1: they were bringing explosives and so, um, yeah, these are
Speaker 1: we have. We have terrorists operating in the open, and
Speaker 1: the response from uh, the entire liberal media class and
Speaker 1: liberal politicians is to call these people anti racist, peaceful
Speaker 1: process and nothing peaceful about that. And you just mentioned
Speaker 1: something that I want to pick back up on, and
Speaker 1: it was quite interesting. You said, basically the folks on
Speaker 1: the East and West coast shouldn't get too comfortable, and
Speaker 1: it brings me to something you wrote in your wrote
Speaker 1: in your New York Post, OpEd, and I'm quoting you. Now,
Speaker 1: some believe in TIFA would fade away after Joe Biden's
Speaker 1: electorial win. They're wrong, with the convenient excuse of resisting
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's fascist regime no longer applicable. Antifa are just
Speaker 1: getting started now. If they had great success in Portland,
Speaker 1: which they did, and they continue to as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: terrorists operating in the open. Can you elaborate on that
Speaker 1: point and what does it mean nationally? What what can
Speaker 1: we expect to see from that point of view. But
Speaker 1: we can expect likely is that any time in this
Speaker 1: coming year or in the near future, that there is
Speaker 1: a police involved shooting and there's somehow selective video that
Speaker 1: is out of context, that that will be used to
Speaker 1: make the public rage and to take to the streets.
Speaker 1: And Antifa is most effective and most destructive when they're
Speaker 1: able to embrow themselves in larger left wing protests, as
Speaker 1: they did last year, Because the number of actual militant
Speaker 1: anta on the streets is relatively small, um We're talking
Speaker 1: about in the hundreds. Look, depending on the city, and
Speaker 1: when they were carrying out mass violence. There were thousands
Speaker 1: and thousands of people involved, so they're very good at
Speaker 1: manipulating and turning um inflamed angry protesters into rioters. So
Speaker 1: we just needed I mean, last years the spot was
Speaker 1: the death of George Floyd. All that needs to happen
Speaker 1: if as some other instance like that should be captured
Speaker 1: on camera, and in a country a million people, it's
Speaker 1: likely that there will be some video that will make
Speaker 1: people outrage. And that's what Antifa used to get people out.
Speaker 1: They then public size their tactics that they've been successful
Speaker 1: in in sort of these blueprints that are then shared
Speaker 1: with their other comrades in different cities so that they
Speaker 1: can replicate them in different ways. So for example, when
Speaker 1: riots were breaking out in Kenosha last summer, there were
Speaker 1: Antifa from Portland in Seattle who drove all the way
Speaker 1: out there to try to help their comrades there. So
Speaker 1: they are they move around as well to different states,
Speaker 1: and they are creating and constantly refining and improving there
Speaker 1: um riot methods so that it can be than just
Speaker 1: put into action at any other place. You know, you
Speaker 1: mentioned something and I just wanted to get some clarification
Speaker 1: on a point that you just made in terms of
Speaker 1: the selectively edited videos. Did you believe that George floyd
Speaker 1: tape was selectively edited or you just referring to things
Speaker 1: that have happened in past time that was selectively edited
Speaker 1: in people tick to the streets. I'm not referring specifically
Speaker 1: to George Floyd's video, and just mean other videos, other
Speaker 1: narratives that come out from videos, And by edited, I
Speaker 1: don't mean necessarily that their doctored. I just mean that
Speaker 1: it's a snippet of something that could have taken place
Speaker 1: over hours. Let's say, so for example, people have it
Speaker 1: burnt in their minds the image of the the officer
Speaker 1: that had his knee on George Floyd's neck that was
Speaker 1: part of a much longer interaction. And then on top
Speaker 1: of that, people neglect to mention the results of the
Speaker 1: um autopsy from the medical uh, the County Medical Examiner,
Speaker 1: which found that there was a fatal level authentinel in
Speaker 1: George Floyd's body, which is relevant for this. So you know,
Speaker 1: using terms like this is a murder, this is a
Speaker 1: murder that was caught on video, that he was murdered
Speaker 1: by cops like those type of words for like murders
Speaker 1: determining a court of law, and that officer has not
Speaker 1: been found guilty. The investigation is still ongoing. There's actually
Speaker 1: some evidence to suggests that Floyd may have died of
Speaker 1: other reasons. So, Mike, I mean, part of why I
Speaker 1: wrote a mass is just because the UM journalists have
Speaker 1: been so dear and their duties to inform the public
Speaker 1: accurately immeasurably about UM these very sensitive topics. Instead, everything
Speaker 1: they do is just about pouring fuel on fires and
Speaker 1: exploiting sensibilities over over race and racial justice. So in
Speaker 1: many ways they are doing the bidding of Antifa by
Speaker 1: sensationalizing these instances of use of force by police. You know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, as we were talking about the George Floyd case,
Speaker 1: there was some other folks, some some political commentators that
Speaker 1: recently mentioned the fitting all. And I recognize that fitting
Speaker 1: all may uh uh decrease your ability rather to really breathe.
Speaker 1: So I get that. But the officer's knee on his
Speaker 1: neck wasn't proper police procedure. Therefore he certainly bear some
Speaker 1: liability to the death of George Floyd. And I think
Speaker 1: when we talk about these things you can talk about
Speaker 1: the drugs that was in this system, absolutely fine, that's okay,
Speaker 1: But are we looking to talk about it in the
Speaker 1: sense of this miss what happened and what was wrong?
Speaker 1: And a lot of African Americans truly feel trauma from
Speaker 1: police interaction because of the history of this country. We're
Speaker 1: talking about um after the Civil uh, the Civil War,
Speaker 1: when a lot of these um um Confederate soldiers became
Speaker 1: police officers and they begin to inflict the same pain
Speaker 1: on African Americans as they were as Confederate soldiers. So
Speaker 1: a lot of this is very real trauma that a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't necessarily understand because they've never lived
Speaker 1: a day in a black person shoes. So I hear
Speaker 1: everything you're saying. I get it. I think it's so
Speaker 1: important to provide that contactual, contextual UM element to these
Speaker 1: kind of conversations because people often forget how real fear
Speaker 1: is for people and how they can respond in different ways.
Speaker 1: But moving beyond beyond that UM for a moment, I
Speaker 1: know you've got a best selling book out New York
Speaker 1: Times bestseller which people should definitely take a look at,
Speaker 1: and it's called Unmasked Inside and tief is radical plan
Speaker 1: of destroy democracy. Why did you write the book and
Speaker 1: what is it about? What are your main arguments. I
Speaker 1: wanted to provide just to the average American or reader
Speaker 1: on the world, a book that they could have in
Speaker 1: their hands to understand antipas history and ideology and organizing
Speaker 1: organizing tactics and why they are the threat that they are.
Speaker 1: Um And, by the way, I think it's important to
Speaker 1: to respond to what you just said, like all those
Speaker 1: points are really important and they're true about the reason
Speaker 1: why there's a certain salience or palatability for the actions
Speaker 1: of the alament to FAZ because there are these chronals
Speaker 1: of truth in things that they purport to say they're
Speaker 1: flighting for. So, right, the history of racism in the
Speaker 1: United States, particularly for black American citizens, is something that's real,
Speaker 1: and there are certain um we have within living memory
Speaker 1: of these policy is that were you enacted at the
Speaker 1: state level and carried out by law enforcement to justify
Speaker 1: um racist policies and discriminatory actions. So Antifa and b ALM,
Speaker 1: in my view, they use these traumas to carry out
Speaker 1: their extremist activities and to justify what they're doing. Um So.
Speaker 1: In the book, I also write about I map out
Speaker 1: the relationship between BLM and Antifa and sort of the
Speaker 1: very steeries that kind provide the framework for a lot
Speaker 1: of their arguments, because if you talk to an Antifa,
Speaker 1: ask them why are you why are you setting fires
Speaker 1: to businesses? Why are you looting these small businesses? These
Speaker 1: people are part of our community. They don't see what
Speaker 1: they're doing as bad at all. They don't see it
Speaker 1: as criminal activity. They see it as a good thing
Speaker 1: because in there there world view. For example, they view
Speaker 1: capitalism property rights as linked to systems of oppression, linked
Speaker 1: to fascism. So, like too about to understand Antifa, you
Speaker 1: really have to understand their ideology and see where they're
Speaker 1: coming from, how they justify their actions, because I think
Speaker 1: in addition to um a law enforcement response that is
Speaker 1: needed to break up some of their criminal networks, we
Speaker 1: also need to be looking at how do we UM
Speaker 1: counter their arguments that have made its way to the
Speaker 1: mainstream and is appealing too many people on the left. Okay,
Speaker 1: then thank you for that point of clarification. And I
Speaker 1: was intrigued by what happened over the summer because it
Speaker 1: appeared that in a lot of these cases, when we
Speaker 1: saw in some of these communities, which I agree, Why
Speaker 1: would you be destroying your own community. You saw Antifa
Speaker 1: with Black Lives Matter at least in the in the
Speaker 1: same area, and it appeared to me that Antifa was
Speaker 1: hijacking the Black Lives Matter moment in that scenario. But BLM,
Speaker 1: which we want to separate because there's the organization and
Speaker 1: there's the people that I know who I happen to
Speaker 1: be friends of, who are professionals, who aren't destroying businesses
Speaker 1: and property, who just says use the term Black Lives
Speaker 1: Matter and it's not necessarily linked to the association or
Speaker 1: organization in any matter. Did you see Antifa hijacking that movement?
Speaker 1: And we saw a lot of reporting on that on
Speaker 1: my network, Fox News Channel. We talked about it a lot,
Speaker 1: and the fact that BLM wasn't making any statements with
Speaker 1: regards to it. Did you see that a lot personally? Yes,
Speaker 1: I did see that a lot. So going back several
Speaker 1: years for the BLM events in Portland and Seaho, I
Speaker 1: saw the Antifa. We're volunteering security for these events, and
Speaker 1: since some that sort of the partnership between the two
Speaker 1: has become a bit more explicit in is very explicit
Speaker 1: in some chapters BLM d C, for example, what's calling
Speaker 1: m their supporters to come out and support some of
Speaker 1: these events. I don't know if I would say that
Speaker 1: ANTIFI hijacks. What they do is they exploit these events, because,
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, there's a lot of people who
Speaker 1: go to these um left wing protests that are done
Speaker 1: in the name of racial justice. And these are people
Speaker 1: who are just regular left wing people, liberals. They don't
Speaker 1: really understand that they are being used as human body
Speaker 1: shields in a wider agenda of creating turning protests into
Speaker 1: riots that ANTIFA is so good at doing. UM so
Speaker 1: my criticism and blum the organization in addition to their
Speaker 1: Marxist revolutionary views that have been espoused by the founders,
Speaker 1: but all so that leaders in the organization by and
Speaker 1: large have not done the work it takes to expunge
Speaker 1: the anarchists communist elements that are coming in to engage
Speaker 1: in criminal organizing. In fact, they usually ignore it, deny it,
Speaker 1: or welcome it. So um at some point, in my view,
Speaker 1: you you do place blame on them for being complicit,
Speaker 1: and but I think it's worse than that. I don't
Speaker 1: think they're just complicit. I think they welcome it, and you,
Speaker 1: as writ in the book, you can look at some
Speaker 1: specific chapters in the US for BLM where they actually
Speaker 1: consider anti Feather comrades and allies. I want to pick
Speaker 1: up from there at the moment, but first let's go
Speaker 1: to break Gee Soars. He's funding We know he's been
Speaker 1: funding BLM. I think he gave him thirty three million dollars.
Speaker 1: Is he also funding Antifa? The funding for Tifa is.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of theories about that, and most
Speaker 1: of it is unfounded. One of the most common ones
Speaker 1: is that shadowy billionaire millionaire figures channeling money to Antifa groups.
Speaker 1: I haven't found evidence from that. It's actually much more simple. So,
Speaker 1: as I write in the book, the the funding sources
Speaker 1: is actually done through campaigns, ong fund me, cash app envenoment.
Speaker 1: So with the aid of big tech, these people make
Speaker 1: campaigns and accounts that are then shared with their very
Speaker 1: large and expansive networks on the left, and people are donating.
Speaker 1: Suffer hundreds and the amount of money that some of
Speaker 1: these Antifa groups have been able to raise is significant.
Speaker 1: I'm talking hundreds of thousands to millions. Some Portland alone,
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands was raised to cover everything from food, food,
Speaker 1: to accommodation to travel, riot gears, weapons, jail money, jail
Speaker 1: bill funds, UM, legal aid, absolutely everything. It just became
Speaker 1: a really well oiled machine. They were swimming in cash.
Speaker 1: And then some of these groups because they just opened
Speaker 1: up out of the blue after they would get all
Speaker 1: this money and they would just closed down their Twitter
Speaker 1: account and you would you would have no idea what
Speaker 1: happened to the remaining let's like three hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: as one of these groups in Portland. UM In in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: the Minnesota Freedom Fund raised thirty five million dollars with
Speaker 1: the help of celebrities and people like Kamala Harris UM
Speaker 1: and that money was used to bail out every single
Speaker 1: person who was arrested up the riots throughout Minnesota, and
Speaker 1: some of the people that they were getting failing out
Speaker 1: included those being held on charges of attempted murder and rape.
Speaker 1: So UM people are using big tap to aid in
Speaker 1: their right organizing, which is why the decisions to dan
Speaker 1: Trump and then many pro Trump accounts on Twitter and
Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram have been so hypocritical because they've turned
Speaker 1: a blind eye for years now two left far left
Speaker 1: terrorists who are organizing and crowdfunding on their platforms. As
Speaker 1: you probably predicted, the mainstream media and the PC police
Speaker 1: are not fans of your book. The Los Angeles Times
Speaker 1: called it extremely dishonest, writing you pretend and Tief is
Speaker 1: the real enemy. Leftists have even tried to cancel your book,
Speaker 1: bullying Portland's iconic Paul's Bookstore into not selling your book.
Speaker 1: I believe Pals gave it, gave in to the mob
Speaker 1: somewhat and said they wouldn't sell it in the stories,
Speaker 1: but they were doing online. I'm guessing you expected some
Speaker 1: of his backlash. What do you make of all of it?
Speaker 1: That particular review was written by a man named Alex
Speaker 1: Nazarian who is a White House correspondent for Yahoo News.
Speaker 1: I think um, his certain things he said in the
Speaker 1: review were really disgusting, for example, linking me to Gebbles
Speaker 1: and calling me, in other words, a Nazi propagandist. Um.
Speaker 1: That type of language is um, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think it has place. You don't just flippantly use Holocaust
Speaker 1: references just to make a point in a review to
Speaker 1: try to sme as somebody like, Um, it's disgusting. If
Speaker 1: he wants to challenge disagree with my analysis, all that
Speaker 1: is fine, But going down this route of really unprofessional
Speaker 1: language like that is not becoming on somebody who works
Speaker 1: as a reporter and covers the White House. So that's
Speaker 1: that was my initial response. I think, Um, of course,
Speaker 1: it's entirely predictable. I think our papers of records, whether
Speaker 1: they be The Valley Times or the New York Times
Speaker 1: or Washington Post, have published a lot of material that
Speaker 1: um bring Shane to the profession in my opinion, and
Speaker 1: it brings me to another point you mentioned in New
Speaker 1: York Times. A reporter there even called you a dangerous
Speaker 1: threat who should be censored on social media. How do
Speaker 1: you respond to all this? Are there any effort to real,
Speaker 1: legitimate efforts to sense to you, whether they be on
Speaker 1: social media anywhere else. Yes. So you're talking about Sarah
Speaker 1: john she um, she's a walks of the New York Times.
Speaker 1: She wasn't added her UM and she had been calling
Speaker 1: for me to get banned after Trump was banned. Um.
Speaker 1: It just goes to show you, as I wrote about
Speaker 1: in the book, an you felt have a lot of
Speaker 1: fellow travelers and useful idiots and media um is are
Speaker 1: actually some of their strongest allies because they help mainstream
Speaker 1: nanti fause ideology and wrap it around these simple marketing
Speaker 1: terms like anti fascism and nanti racism. I'm not surprised
Speaker 1: that a lot of gentlealists, do you they feel threatened
Speaker 1: in foment work because they have poured their entire lives
Speaker 1: until making the public ignorant about the extremism of the
Speaker 1: far off. Yes, and I appreciate you making your voice
Speaker 1: known and certainly putting the research out there, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of Americans who don't understand what antifa is,
Speaker 1: and some people legitimately think it's just simply an idea
Speaker 1: and there's no real action behind it. And I think
Speaker 1: that that certainly a lie, and we've seen that as
Speaker 1: evidenced by way of the way you were treated in
Speaker 1: many other instances what we've seen neither on social media
Speaker 1: or live on our televisions. But before we let you go,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to know what's next for you. Do
Speaker 1: you have any big projects coming up? The folks at
Speaker 1: homes you know about, and what can people find you
Speaker 1: on social media and elsewhere? So I am on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Mr Andy Ngo. My website is Andy dot ngo
Speaker 1: dot com. I post whenever I give interviews, and I
Speaker 1: write news reports, and all I have to go on
Speaker 1: my website or my my social media so people can
Speaker 1: follow there. I'm going to continue doing what I've been
Speaker 1: doing before, which is primarily to work as a reporter
Speaker 1: and covering the Andy for Beat because this is an
Speaker 1: issue that is not going to go away, and it's
Speaker 1: not going away absolutely, and I'm following you on Twitter myself.
Speaker 1: So I want to thank you again for coming on
Speaker 1: out loud with Gianno call Will and certainly educating us
Speaker 1: on many of the instances and intricacies rather of Antifa,
Speaker 1: because a lot of us are simply misinformed and don't
Speaker 1: even know what it is. But you lived life in
Speaker 1: a real way in terms of exposing them for what
Speaker 1: they are reporting on the ground, even getting beat up
Speaker 1: by this violent group of people. So thank you again
Speaker 1: for all you do, and we look forward to as
Speaker 1: seeing more from you and picking up a copy of
Speaker 1: your book you find. Thank you, and thanks to Amy
Speaker 1: Know for a great interview. If you're enjoying the show,
Speaker 1: please leave us a review and rate us with five
Speaker 1: stars on Apple Podcast. If you have any questions for me,
Speaker 1: please email me at out loud at gingeris Street sixty
Speaker 1: dot com and I'll try to answer them in our
Speaker 1: future episodes. You can also find me on Twitter, Instagram,
Speaker 1: and Facebook at Giano Caldwell. If you're interested in learning
Speaker 1: more about my story, please pick up a copy of
Speaker 1: my best selling book title Taken for Granted, How Conservatism
Speaker 1: Can Win Back to Americans The Liberalism Failed Special thanks
Speaker 1: to our producer John Cassio, researcher Aaron Klingman, and executive
Speaker 1: producers Debbie Myers and of course speaker New Gingrich, all
Speaker 1: part of the Gingerish Street sixty network,