1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Hey, folks. It is Thursday, November twentieth, and a man 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: is scheduled to die in a matter of hours in 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Florida by lethal injection. He is making an argument though, 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: that the execution should be stopped. Why because it might 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: be too painful for him? And with that, welcome to 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. It's he has 7 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: some logic here for why he might feel more pain 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 1: than anyone else. I don't know if I've heard this 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: argument necessarily before, and we have covered a bunch of 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: executions here lately. 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the first one that I've heard that 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 2: is trying to use a medical condition that he says 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: will make lethal injection be torturous for him. We're talking 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: about sixty three year old Richard Barry Randolph, and his 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: attorneys say, yes, that injecting him with lethal injection will 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: be tortuous because he has lupus. And lupus one of 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: the side effects is that you have increased pain sensitivity, 18 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: so it causes chronic pain, and it leads to nerve 19 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: sensations like heightened nerve sensations basically, so your central nervous 20 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: system is basically ramped up. 21 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: It's painful. 22 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 3: It can be something that. 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: Would be painful to you and I would be extraordinarily 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: painful to somebody who has lupus. 25 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: Okay, So that's the argument this man is making. Don't 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: know how far that's going to go, but that's certainly interesting. Robes. 27 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: As we sit here getting ready for Florida now to 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: continue a record pace, this will officially put them over. 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: They have more than if his execution goes through tonight, 30 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: they would have more than doubled their previous record for 31 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: executions in a year. That's correct, and they're not even 32 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: done after this one, that's right. 33 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: So the previous record was eight executions in the state 34 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: of Florida in one calendar year. Tonight's execution is number 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: seventeen in the state of Florida, and Governor de Santa 36 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: announced this week another execution that he's just put on 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: the books for next month. So there are two more 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: planned executions in the state of Florida alone. So yes, 39 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: it looks like if things all go according to the 40 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 2: plan Governor DeSantis has put in place, there will be 41 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: a total of nineteen inmates executed in the state of Florida. 42 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: And that's way ahead. Usually we have I don't think 43 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: nobody surprised Texas leading the way. I guess Texas, Alabama, 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: South Carolina are the ones now that have five There 45 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: you go. So Florida is way out and way ahead, 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: and Desantas has been signing death warrens left and right, 47 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: it seems here lately now this road, we've covered several 48 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: of these, most recently Tremaine Wood who's execution in Oklahoma. 49 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: He got commuted and he's life in prison. That was 50 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: special circumstances of the case that folks thought were worthy 51 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: of looking at. Not the argument being made for this 52 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: guy when it comes to the crime itself. No. 53 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: In fact, the only arguments attorneys have made is that 54 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: he had a terrible childhood, that he did have an 55 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: honorable service as a member of the military, but that 56 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 2: he suffered PTSD, he was addicted to crack cocaine. 57 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 3: So they were. 58 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: Trying to kind of basically lay out as woe as me. 59 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: I had a terrible lot in life and I made 60 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: a really bad decision. 61 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: But it has not worked. 62 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: The Florida Supreme Court said, sorry, that is not an 63 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: argument that you can make to take away a death penalty. 64 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: Did I see right? One of the arguments was about 65 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: is really a lack of love from his parents or 66 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: his mom in particular, but apparently he had loving, adoptive, 67 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: correct parents. 68 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: The judge pointed that out. 69 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I don't want to hear about your problem 70 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: with your biological parents because you were adopted by a 71 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: loving family. And he claimed though, that the mom who 72 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: adopted him was an alcoholic and that the father was abusive. 73 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 3: So you know, he's claiming all of these things. 74 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: But I figure anyone who's in a situation like his 75 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: probably could point to a terrible childhood. 76 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so all that's been rejected. I think the Supreme 77 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: Court is the only thing that could save him. Now. 78 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: Obviously Desanta's could save him tonight. Nobody is expecting that 79 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: at all, of course, so that is his last hope. 80 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: But this was a pretty This is another one row. 81 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: If this crime was thirty eight years ago, Yes, that's 82 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: a death row for thirty eight years. 83 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: And that is what DeSantis is trying to clear us. 84 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: He's saying, this is not justice, this is taking way 85 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 2: too long. We are not we are not following through 86 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 2: on what a jury has chosen as the fate of 87 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: these prisoners, and we are just dragging our feet. There 88 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,239 Speaker 2: have been lots of reasons why, but he has now 89 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: tried to speed up the process and he is certainly 90 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: doing so. So, yes, this was a crime. It happened 91 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: back in nineteen eighty eight, the murder of a sixty 92 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: two year old woman, Minnie Ruth McCollums. She was working 93 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: in a convenience store a small town, Florida, East Palatka. 94 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: Never heard of it, but he was Richard Barry Randolph 95 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 2: was a former co worker of her, so he knew her. 96 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: And he went back to the store to rob the safe, 97 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: that was his goal, and she interrupted him. She came 98 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: in while he was trying to break into the safe. 99 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, well he's twenty seven at the time and she's 100 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: sixty What did you just say, sixty two? Sixty two 101 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: year old lady. So this a scuffle ensues you off, 102 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: certainly assume he has the advantage in that scuffle. So 103 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: this is where it gets awful. He does beat her. 104 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: He beats her repeatedly, essentially almost taking breaks from beating 105 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: her so he can go continue to try to open 106 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: the safe. If you can imagine that horror. He's essentially 107 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: going back and forth between robbing and killing her essentially, 108 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: and this went on for quite some time. This was 109 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: a horrific scene they described. 110 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, prosecutors say it was prolonged and it was brutal, 111 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: and they did. They pointed out the fact that he 112 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: was taking the time to continue to try and break 113 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 2: into the safe, and then he apparently said something to 114 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 2: authorities alluding to the fact that she was stronger than 115 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 2: he thought, like he was annoyed that she wouldn't die, 116 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: so he was strangling her, he was beating her, he 117 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 2: was stabbing her, and then he raped her. So this 118 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 2: is horrific and he doesn't deny it. He admitted this. 119 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: He actually showed police where the bloody clothes were that 120 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: he stashed away when he was caught a short while later. 121 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: So this is not a question of guilt or innocence, 122 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 2: but the brutality of the crime speaks volumes and it 123 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: is a tough one to stomach. 124 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: And this is one now we keep an eye on 125 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: robe to talk about lupus. Is this going to factor in. 126 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: We've seen several lethal in jets. I's say scene, but 127 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I don't mean that literally 128 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: during the year, and there are different reports afterwards of 129 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: what the witnesses say the inmate, how the inmate reacted 130 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: to being getting those drugs. And I think a lot 131 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: of people are going to be watching closely tonight to 132 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: see if this guy with lupes ends up, I don't know, 133 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: having some kind of an adverse reaction. 134 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: In extraordinary pain or not. 135 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 2: It Also, it was you mentioned you asked how old 136 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: she was, and I was looking at how old he was. 137 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 3: I think it's so interesting. 138 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: She was sixty two years old when he brutally painfully 139 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: beat her. They were talking. By the way, she was 140 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: alive when police found her. I want to point that out. 141 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: She was alive, still clinging to life. She spent six 142 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: days in the hospital before she finally succumbed to her injuries. 143 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: He essentially beat her into a coma, and it was 144 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: the brain injuries that ended up. Her brain swelled and 145 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 2: she ended up dying. But she was stabbed in the throat. 146 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: I mean, it was as excruciating as you could possibly imagine. 147 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: She was sixty two. He is now sixty three. He 148 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: got to live one year longer than her. But now 149 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: he's upset and complaining about and concerned about and afraid 150 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: of feeling extraordinary pain. I don't know how many people 151 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: are going to feel very sympathetic when they read the 152 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: crime and what he did, and there was zero regard 153 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: for her pain, or her suffering or anything that this 154 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: sixty two year old woman went through. So now he 155 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: is sixty three and he will probably be spared, certainly 156 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: given the circumstances of her death, some of the pain 157 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: she experienced. 158 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: Then we talk about what we talk about just recently 159 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: about the end, right, we talked about, you know the 160 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: story of these entertainment twins who died together double suicide, 161 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: assisted suicide, and we were talking about in prison, if 162 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: you gave people the option to die and to die 163 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: pain painlessly, do you think people in prison with long 164 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: sentences would take it? And you and I I think 165 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: both said no, because in the end, people want to live. 166 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: And so here he is prison, thirty eight years death row. 167 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: This is the end, and he's fighting, fighting as hard 168 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: as he can, coming up with anything he can because 169 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: he wants to live. I'm always fascinated we all have 170 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: this thing. It's inherent in us. It's just instinct to 171 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: want to live, to want to survive. So we're not 172 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: surprised to see any of this. He's trying everything he 173 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: can to stay alive, no hope of getting out. He's 174 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: not trying to, you know, get his conviction overturned. He 175 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: just wants to live. I think that is it's always 176 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: fascinating about these stories. 177 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: It is fascinating. I absolutely agree with you, and you 178 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: see it every time. Only one execution that I can 179 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: remember from this year, and we have covered most of 180 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: them where we had an inmate who said, yep, go 181 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 2: ahead kill me. 182 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: He skipped all the guy on in Florida. 183 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: We don't want any more appeals, don't care about trying 184 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: to get the Supreme Court to take a look at 185 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: my case. 186 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 3: Just go ahead and do it. 187 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: Wasn't he also the one where they asked any last 188 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: words and his response was simply no, And that was it. 189 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: So yes, that is the only one. 190 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 3: He is the exception. 191 00:09:58,880 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: You are right. 192 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: Most most in maids on death row, regardless of the 193 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 2: quality of their life, it's still a life, and people 194 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: there's a human instinct to live, to survive, regardless of 195 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: your circumstances, and that is what we have seen time 196 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: and time again. Now when we come back, there is 197 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: an interesting part of this case. He and this is 198 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: very rare. There was not a unanimous decision for the 199 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: death penalty. In fact, when you hear what the spread 200 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: was among the jury, it does raise some eyebrows and 201 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: certainly has raised some questions as to whether. 202 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 3: Or not that should be allowed. 203 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: And continuing our coverage of Florida's seventeenth execution of the year, 204 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: happening tonight, sixty three year old Richard Barry Randolph will 205 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 2: die by lethal injection. He has made complaints and appeals 206 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: to anyone who will listen to try and stay his 207 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 2: execution or at least change the method of his execution. 208 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: He has lupus, and he says that this is going 209 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: to be a torturous death because of his condition, his 210 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: nerve endings, his nervous system is already experiences more pain 211 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: than most people. So to go through a lethal injection 212 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: while suffering lupus, his attorneys had argued, was cruel and unusual. 213 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 3: But that has fallen on deaf ears. 214 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: And how did the judge put it? He really said, really, 215 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: now I'm going to bring this up now, He. 216 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: Said, You've had lupus for quite some time. You're just 217 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: now bringing this up. You had years to try and 218 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 2: change the method of execution, and you didn't. You chose 219 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 2: to do it in the eleventh hour, which makes him 220 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: feel like this is just an attempt to stay an 221 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: execution rather than actually mitigate pain. 222 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 3: So that is what the judge said. But there was 223 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 3: something really. 224 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: Interesting that I have learned so much as we've been 225 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 2: covering these executions. But in Randolph's jury, the death sentence, 226 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: there was a vote, right the jury votes. In most states, 227 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 2: you have to have a unanimous decision by a jury 228 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: to vote for the death penalty, and in some cases 229 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 2: the judge can intervene. But his jury voted eight to four, 230 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: and even the trial court at the time acknowledged that 231 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: that narrow margin, they said, reflected significant disagreement about what 232 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: the appropriate punishment was. They also pointed out that this 233 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: jury only heard from one mitigation witness when there should 234 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: have been more so they could have had a better 235 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: clearer picture. They say, the jury didn't get to hear 236 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: about his trouble childhood. They didn't get to hear about 237 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: his crack addiction, or about his military service and all 238 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 2: the good that he did. So there was a lot 239 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 2: of frustration about that. Now listen to this, I didn't 240 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 2: realize this. The Florida Supreme Court then changed this law 241 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: and said death sentences have to be unanimous, and then 242 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: they gave it. It had to happen in cases after 243 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: two thousand and four, there was some sort of thing. 244 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 3: So he missed out on that because it happened to early. 245 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 3: And then just two. 246 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 2: Years ago in twenty twenty three, the Florida State Leasure 247 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: just wiped it all clean and said, you know what, 248 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: you can have a non unanimous death sentence. Now they 249 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 2: put it back to where it was, and so there 250 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: have been other instances where you have seen that eight 251 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 2: to four split. 252 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: That is tough. Well, I don't think it's the way 253 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: you talk. It's a tough, tough challenge for some to 254 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: accept state sanctioned killings, right. I get it, it's a 255 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: part of our system. But some people say these are monsters. 256 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes they need to be I find then others argue 257 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: I'm not having the argument about it being deterrent. I'm 258 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: just saying, as a human being, it's uncomfortable the idea 259 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: of us going through ceremony of killing somebody. So it 260 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: was this guy. I still think this is a bigger 261 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: part of a problem. For me, we've seen too many 262 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: people exonerated when we're talking about somebody's life. We can't 263 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: have eight to four decisions. We can't have it that 264 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: kind of split. We need to be more sure than that. 265 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 3: Agreed, and that is the split. 266 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: If it had been nine or sorry, if it had 267 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: been uh, what would have been been too? 268 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm not a saying eleven one still not eight. 269 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: Four is what it is in the state of Florida 270 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: now since they put it back in place. Guess what 271 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: the only other state is that allows a non unanimous 272 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 2: death sentence to stand. 273 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 3: Alabama. 274 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 2: Now they have a ten to two split, so they 275 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 2: say it has to be it has to be higher. 276 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: It's higher the threshold hire ten to two. That's to me, 277 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: I was surprised eight to four. I had no idea 278 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 2: that it could be that wide of a margin and 279 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 2: still go through. 280 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: We would never accept that margin when it comes to 281 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: guilt or innocence. Now, so wide life or death. That's 282 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: that's bizarre. It's strange. Yes, we have learned so much 283 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: about the death penalty. We've learned a lot about cases 284 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: mistakes would have made and how you need to sometimes 285 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: dig a little deeper in a lot of these stories 286 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: and not just read the headlines and you understand and 287 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: can have Now even you don't have to have sympathy, 288 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: but you can have at least some kind of compassion 289 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: and sometimes not sympathy but empathy because you hear so 290 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: much of what families are going through on both sides 291 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: is you can relate to in a lot of ways. 292 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: And there's pain all around in these stories. And it's 293 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: rare to get a celebration robes. I know, the guy 294 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: and Tremaine with Treminwood. Yet right, it's weird to have 295 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: one where it feels like you are celebrated. Somebody died 296 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: in that case, but here we are celebrating at least 297 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: maybe that the system got it. Maybe not one hundred 298 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: percent right, but goid it better. 299 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: And look, all of these inmates, these death row inmates 300 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: are never getting out of prison. They are all sentenced 301 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: to life without the possibility of parole. So the question 302 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: is do you go through a thirty six and in 303 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: one case last week was it a forty seven year, 304 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: forty six year, almost fifty years on death row? You know, 305 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: do you go through that process with the appeals and 306 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 2: with all of there's a financial burden when you when 307 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 2: you sentence someone to death significantly than just putting someone 308 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 2: in prison for the rest of their lives. 309 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 3: And we've talked about this before too. 310 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: When you have family members of the victims who don't 311 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: want to see an eye for an eye take place 312 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 2: in the name of their loved one who died, you 313 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: know there are other We have learned so much about 314 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 2: the fact that victims don't really have a voice in 315 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 2: a lot of these cases. And it's surprising to me 316 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: state by state just how different it is the rules 317 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: and what has to be put in place or what 318 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: laws need to be there for people to die without 319 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 2: a unanimous decision, what methods yes it is. 320 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 3: It is fascinating. I am surprised. 321 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: We talk about how the death penalty it's never been 322 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: proven to be a deterrent in any way, shape or form, 323 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: But my god, I feel like after this year in Florida, 324 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: you would think a criminal would say, maybe, if I'm 325 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: going to commit a crime, I'm not going to do 326 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: it in Florida. 327 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about that, But you make a point 328 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: if you see people actually following through on the death penalty, 329 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people who are pro 330 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: death penalty, will absolutely tell you that it's not. Yeah, 331 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: it would be a determined if we actually used it, 332 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: So here we are. It's not a deterrent to be 333 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: on death row for thirty forty fifty years. 334 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 3: Not really. 335 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 2: And first of all, people never think they're going to 336 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: get caught. That's the number one reason why it's not 337 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: a deterrent. But then yes, if you don't have states 338 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 2: following through on the death penalties that they enact, if 339 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: you're not enforcing it, then yes, it doesn't seem that scary. 340 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: You make a good point, a financial one as well, 341 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: because you hear it initially, welly is it more expensive? Right? 342 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: You kill them and it's over. You're not taking care 343 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: of him in prison anymore. This is thirty years of trials, appeals, 344 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: attorneys taking them back and forth for quarter, all of that. 345 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 2: And you have to have and you have to have 346 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 2: that in place because of the innocent people who have 347 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: been placed on death row. You have to give these 348 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: inmates every last opportunity to try and reverse course or 349 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 2: prove their innocence in a way that you wouldn't if 350 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: someone just had a life sentence, Because it is life 351 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,719 Speaker 2: or death and We will of course be following this 352 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 2: case as well as the other of three scheduled for 353 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: the rest of the year, but in the meantime, thank 354 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: you all for listening to us. I'm a me roboch 355 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 2: alongside TJ. 356 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 3: Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.