WEBVTT - The Outlook for U.S. Health Care Systems 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelley. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 And of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.400 by searching Bloomberg Global News. And many of us are 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:38.760 talking about the US healthcare system, how it was in 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.159 many ways, I'm prepared for the virus and really how 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.040 society was, of course, and how it may change the 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.960 health care system that is as a result of COVID nineteam, 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.640 Let's get to someone who's got some thoughts on that. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.600 Dr Vivian Lee is President of Health Platforms at Verily 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.640 Life Sciences, former CEO of the three and a half 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.800 billion dollar healthcare system University of Utah Health She's got 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.160 a new book out today. It's entitled The Long Fixed, 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.160 Solving America's Healthcare Crisis with Strategies that Work for Everyone. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.640 She joins us on the phone in New York City. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.559 Dr Lee, nice to have you here with Jason and myself. Um, 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:13.760 tell us a little bit about this book. First of all, 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.840 I'm curious when you started writing it and how you're 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.880 thinking about it now in the context of COVID nineteen. Well, 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:23.680 thanks for having me. It's really great to be here. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.840 You know, when I started writing this book, I really 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.920 wanted to write about the solutions. You know, we all know, 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.240 or many of us know, that our health care system 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.880 has not really been functioning all that well even before COVID, 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:40.399 and I wanted to write about the bright spots, some 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:42.720 of the great work that people are doing across the 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:47.800 country that are really solving the healthcare crisis locally, and 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.640 then weave together those stories for a national vision and 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:53.920 national narrative for how we could actually make our health 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.600 care system better. I called it The Long Fixed because 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.000 I thought it was going to take us a long time. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:01.840 I mean, I think there's a way there, but it's 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:03.760 going to take us a long time. Now with the 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.920 COVID crisis, I'm really hoping it's going to be a 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.560 lot shorter fix because I think if if COVID has 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.440 taught us anything, there's just an incredible urgency to really 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:17.280 fixing our health care system. And so give us one 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.120 of those fixes, because we're all looking for them right now, 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.839 and especially things that we can do pretty immediately. Dr 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:28.920 Link Well, the underlying problem in our health care system 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.280 is that we really run a fee for service healthcare system, 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.000 meaning that our hospitals and doctors live and to mount 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:42.080 and so we are designed to do things that generate fees, 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.320 like run operating rooms and imaging centers. And when we 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.200 stopped doing that, as we have in the last few months, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:54.280 except for our frontline providers managing COVID, then we actually 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.959 start to we start to run the risk of bankruptcy. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.480 In fact, we laid off one and a half million 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.480 doctors and nurses in the last month in April, and 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.280 we know that there's going to be a rebound in 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.200 need of care, and who knows what's going to happen 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.120 with COVID. So we need to create a much more 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.320 resilient healthcare system. And we have some terrific examples around 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.080 the country. We have medical groups that are functioning in 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.720 a completely different way, getting paid totally differently by Medicare 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.040 groups like chen Med and Iora Health and Care more 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.120 and all across the country, and those healthcare systems are 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.360 able to care for their patients, their Medicare patients in 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:36.920 a way that is really focused on prevention, really stable 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.440 and resilient now in the face of COVID and just 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:45.360 keeping him healthier, healthier and out of the hospital. And 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.800 so doctor Lee flip it around for us and help 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.440 us understand how we as patients might need to think 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.880 about healthcare differently, because I feel like we've all been 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.120 either experiencing or at least hearing about things like telehealth 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.680 going forward. What are we doing wrong or what can 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.600 we do better in thinking about delivery of our own 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.720 healthcare that can sort of help the system fix itself 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.280 a bit. Well, that's such a great question, and we 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.600 have a lot of time to reflect about that right now, 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.560 as we're all staying at home and thinking about various 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.680 conditions that we're worried about. What we don't want to 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.240 go into the clinic or to the emergency room about. 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.400 Right So, one of the one of the products that 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:31.320 our company actually has made over the years is a 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.599 exactly what you're talking about. It's for people who have 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.360 type two diabetes, and the lessons that that we learned 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.120 from it apply to other other conditions that people might have, 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:43.600 but in this case, for people with type two diabetes 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.720 very common. The main issue is we've got to keep 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.640 our blood sugars under control. And typically, you know, you 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.440 have to prick your finger a few times a day 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.560 to check your blood sugars. You might to go in 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.080 and get blood tests in the hospital or in the clinic. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:02.000 But the new technologies there are continuous coast monitors. These 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.400 are these are little devices that are like the size 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.120 of your key fob, and you put it on your 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.200 arm or your abdomen. They have a little bluetooth chip 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:14.039 in them and they measure your blood sugar sends the 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.960 tracing to your phone. You can actually look at how 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.359 your blood traces on your own phone, and then instead 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.480 of keeping a food log, you take pictures of your 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.520 meals and snacks, and then you as a diabetic patient, 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:26.799 you can actually look and see, oh, you know, Vivian, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.560 that second splash of a conpipe wasn't so good for you. 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.600 Look at what it did to your bloodshers. And then 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.520 you can text with your coach, and you can video 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.320 chat with your doctors, all from your phone, all at 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.560 your convenience. That's the kind of health care that we 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.680 need to be embracing now. Many of us wanted to 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:49.080 do before, but our health insurers didn't necessarily reimburse the good. 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.600 The silver lining with COVID is actually now they are 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.559 reversing reimbursing for that. They're actually now starting to cover 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.320 this kind of care. And we need to be demanding that. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.400 We need to say, hey, you know what, I can 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.320 care for my own health better with my own devices, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.400 at my own convenience. It understands me. It's not trying 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.040 to pretend that I'm some other kind of patient and 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.120 doing a one size of its all. This is care 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.440 for me, and this really needs to be covered by 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:14.599 my health Let's get back to our conversation with Vivian Lee, 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:18.440 president of Health Platforms over at Verily Life Sciences, joining 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.320 us on the phone. She's also got a new book out. 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.120 It's out today, The Long Fix, Solving America's healthcare crisis 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:28.880 with strategies that work for everyone. So Dr Lee, I mean, 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.600 I guess on the topic of the day, and you know, 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.919 this pandemic, what are you seeing right now from the 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:41.520 medical side, and how does it jive with the enthusiasm 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.240 that we're seeing from a market perspective and maybe some 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:49.000 optimism for the economy. What's the medical lens that we 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:54.719 should be looking at this throat. That's a really, really 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.240 great question. It's also a really difficult question because what 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:02.000 we're seeing in terms of the landscape of COVID really 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.800 varies so much by region to region, locality and locality, 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.960 and how people are responding to the crisis in terms 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.160 of whether they're able to maintain the social distancing and 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.560 the precautions and the masks versus not. As the economy 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.400 starts to reopen, is going to be the big differentiator. 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.200 You know. One of the things that I've been thinking 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.920 a lot about as um as my book has been 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.000 coming out, is just what is going to happen in 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.800 the longer term, let's say, just even around the corner 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.640 to next year. We have all these employers who have 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.040 been facing big economic challenges of the last couple of 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:45.400 months really hoping, hoping to reopen as employees definitely hoping 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:47.920 that the economy gets started again. But one of the 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.240 biggest challenges and one of the biggest certainties that we 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.120 have for next year in the midst of all this uncertainty, 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.880 is that healthcare premiums are going to go up next year. 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.840 So how can we how can we help as employees 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.440 really in the interest of our employers, prepare them and 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:09.200 really start to change that narrative and actually start to 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.080 push back against those rising healthcare costs and get us 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.480 into a much better place for the next year. You know, 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.600 I'm listening to us talk, and I'm thinking about people 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.840 who may be listening, and I feel like the three 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.880 of us are certainly among the very lucky of probably 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.840 having really good health care, whether it's by our employer 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.920 or what have you. There are so many people out 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.920 there that still don't have health care, and I feel like, 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.400 that's got it. We've got to figure that one out, right, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.439 We've got to figure out a system that makes sure 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.760 everybody's part of this system of staying healthier before we 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.320 can even tackle the rest. That's so true. And you 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:50.240 know what, today we waste five to thirty cents on 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.320 every dollar in healthcare so when people say, you know, 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.239 there's not enough money to cover the people who are uninsured, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.680 I say that is hogwash. There is plenty of money 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:01.680 our health care system. We just need to be able 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.719 to recover that waste and be able to spend that 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:08.920 money more wisely. Because we actually know all politics aside, 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.800 we know that people who have access to health care, 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.559 they do better, They are healthier, and they have more 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.000 um more satisfying lives when they have access to healthcare. 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.440 So it's really important that we do that. But I 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.480 do wonder what's happened and maybe you know, with health 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:29.040 care becoming such a business, it's interesting to see ads 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.439 by health care systems, you know, whether it's on TV 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.840 or cable, And I do wonder does that make the 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:39.480 system better or worse? You know, the fact that healthcare 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.160 is a business should be or could be in our 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.360 favor if it were structured right. Uh. The metaphor I 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.640 like to use is healthcare flies into the headwinds of 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.200 capitalism unlike almost any other industry in this country. And 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.840 what I mean by that is in our fee for 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:03.480 service model care, we're we're simply paid for everything we 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.839 do to people. We as healthcare leaders as as somebody 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.600 who used to lead a healthcare system invest our resources 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.600 in things that generate fees, so we don't invest in 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.160 primary care, and we don't invest invest in prevention. And 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.679 what we need is to embrace those models of healthcare, 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.400 which there are some really great examples of right here 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:28.679 in our own country that actually used the capitalism as 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.040 tailwinds driving innovation for better care. Medicare advantage as an example, 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.320 the way in which our military pays for military health 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.280 as an example, the way in which our v A 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.840 system pays for v A health another example. We have 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.920 actually successful examples in this country and we just need 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.120 to apply those more broadly well as you as you 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.040 know better than most. This is not something that we 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.560 can we can solve in seven eight minutes, but we 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:52.480 do appreciate your time today and I hope we can 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.679 get some more time in the future because it's it's 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.040 a really important subject and I'm glad you've written the 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.520 book that you have. The book that is just at 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.440 the long fix, Solving America's healthcare crisis with strategies that 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.160 work for everyone, written by Dr Vivian Lee. She's the 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.760 president of Health Platforms at Verily. Life Science is joining 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.360 us on this Tuesday on the phone from New York. 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.240 It's an important one, Jason, and it's not going to 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.000 be an easy one. But with all the money that spent, 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:16.439 we've got to be able to do it better. Certainly 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.040 here in the United States, healthcare flies into the headwinds 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.439 of capitalism. That's quite a quote. This is Bloomberg Business 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.480 Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.880 In the magazine, there's a great story about the Jersey Shore, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.160 and yes it does reference the TV show that Carol 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.920 Masser thought was just a documentary about her life, but 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.120 it actually wasn't. I kid, I kid, because she is 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.240 the furthest thing from Just watch It, Kelly, I know 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.200 where you live? Who was the who was the star? 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.520 Oh God, I forget all their names, right, Mike, the 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.920 situation snooky who was now a mother with several kids? Yeah, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.199 there you go. Anyway, Devin Leonard went there. Uh. He's 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.000 one of our favorite writers at Bloomberg this Week, always 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.679 right on the news and telling a great tale about 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.360 the Jersey Shore, but also a cautionary one when it 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.600 comes to the economy. The beaches are open sort of 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.520 Devin Leonard joins us on the phone to give us 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.320 the breakdown of what he saw and coming out of 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.040 this Memorial Day what we may see for the rest 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.680 of the summer. So, Devin, what's going on on the shore? Well, 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:25.640 I mean, you know, it's sort of a sort of 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:30.280 the reopening of America in a microcosm. I guess, I 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.560 guess these towns are are beginning to open up, you know, 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.720 up and down the you know, the East Coast. But 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.120 they're full of businesses that are you know, basically need 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.360 to make or basically they make all their money. And 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.040 you know, six months really just four months of the 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.000 year beginning with Memorial Day. In a lot of cases, 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.680 they couldn't even reopen for Memorial Days. So so a 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.319 lot of folks are are, you know, wondering whether or 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.120 not they're gonna able to survive. But at the same time, 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:57.839 you have the mayors and all these sounds have to 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.640 worry about. All these people are worried about, uh, you know, 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.400 being inundated with people from you know, other parts of 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.160 the country and bringing COVID Night Team with them. So 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.000 it's you know, it's a really difficult situation. Yeah, I 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:10.680 don't know how they're going to make it work. I 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:12.760 was thinking about this, devon. You know, my family and I, 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:17.360 UM and extended family members often you know, rent a 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.720 house down in the Jersey Shore in Ocean City, New Jersey. 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.920 The boardwalk is part of the life, um, you know. 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.360 And I don't know how you do that. You can't 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.400 do that. But I do wonder about these businesses who 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.560 write the bulk of their business happens in these summer 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.840 months and it's not going to be business as usual, no, 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.480 I mean, you know, I went to Seaside Heights you 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.600 know again, you know the you know the place where 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.840 the MTV show, you know, Jersey Shore with films, and 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.800 I walked around to the boardwalk with Anthony of Oz 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.760 who's the who's the mayor, and uh, you know, basically 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:51.760 he just wanted me. He just wanted me to go here. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.160 From the from the local business owners, whether they owned bars, 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:56.920 you know, well most of them were, you know, own 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.600 bars and restaurants because the the you know, the the 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.400 arcade folks you know can't can't reopen. And you know 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.719 you have the the whole casedo Piers which has you know, 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.079 all the attractions you know that's closed, but he wanted 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.280 to hear from me. He wanted me to hear from them. 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:13.920 You know, you know the situation that that they're in, 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.440 and you know, most of the people were saying, you know, 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.640 we can't survive. You know, the restaurants are just doing 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.760 take out. They were saying, it's five percent of there. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.520 You know, you know the revenue, and you know they 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.800 can't make it. I guess unless they can open up more, 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.120 and they can't because Governor Phil Murphy and New Jersey 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.360 won't let them yet. And is there a sense that 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.200 this could evolve to a more open situation like what's 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:46.160 the either the timeline or what's the most optimistic case here? Devon? Well, Jason, 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.680 I mean that's it's it's really interesting. I didn't really 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.320 understand this, but this is happening all over the country too. 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.240 All of these states, uh you know are sort of 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.960 reopening in phases. You know in some cases that did 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.640 the town's control certain things about how they reopened too. 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:07.040 But so what we're going to see is is um 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.480 and you basically see it in Myrtle Beach. Right, didn't 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:10.920 go to Myrtle Beach, but I talked to some people 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.800 down there, and you know they're they're in the South. 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.400 They you know, they have less uh you know, less 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:21.640 COVID nineteen there. But so they've reopened, they've allowed the 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:26.480 states allowed restaurants to uh off you know, for indoor seating, 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:31.200 but only only of their capacity. But they had to 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.840 do tons and tons of cleaning. A woman told me, 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.240 you know, literally it takes ten minutes to you know, 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.040 to flip a table, you know, because you have to 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.360 you have to disinfect it, wipe it down, you know, 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.680 you know, I mean there's for those four steps. She 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:52.440 sounded tired just talking about it, um and uh and 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.240 you know she was she was only using of her 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.760 capacity because fifty you know, it was too much. So 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.880 but but really, to you know, to directly answer your question, 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.000 even that's not going to be enough for you know, 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.560 for a lot of businesses, particularly restaurants, and you know that. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.480 And if you're a boutique, you you know, you know 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:13.640 you're gonna have to limit the number of people people 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.440 inside in the The president of the Marble Beach Area 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.720 Chamber of Commerce told me that she expected members, you know, 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.120 to you know, not to make it, you know, and 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.280 that's out of members, which I thought was an amazing 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.800 thing for somebody for the Chamber of Commerce. There's supposed 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.600 to be positive and she couldn't do it. Yeah, well, 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.880 right exactly. I mean, the business formula, the business equation 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.880 right for profitability is just kind of so fragile just 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.960 when everything goes goes right that if you throw anything, 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.560 and especially at something on this level, Um, you really 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:49.880 do have to wonder about the amount of businesses that 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:51.840 can survive. On the other side, I do think, you know, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.600 devon a lot about the conflict between officials at a 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.680 higher level versus the local level. You know, there really 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.720 is and there's a lot of we're talking about that 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.920 there's just kind of no clear consensus about what to do, 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.359 but there's a lot of conflict right about how to 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:10.200 move forward. Well, I think I think Mayor of oz 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.200 he would probably like things to move a little quicker. Uh, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:16.960 but he he doesn't still restaurants at the same time 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.840 he does the town does control the hotels and motels 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.680 and in June they're gonna be they're gonna be allowed 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:29.359 to open up of their unions. So so so you 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.440 know that's a little quicker, but uh, you know, that's 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.800 he still has to. You know, this is a town 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:41.560 where you know there's residents, but on a on a 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.840 hot summer day, you know, the number of people swells 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.640 to thirty thousands. So yeah, I know, it's just it's 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.800 just it's just incredible when when you think about it. 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.240 So he's trying to and he needs to do something 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.640 to limit the number of people who are coming. He's 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.720 hoping for, which I guess is and it still sounds 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.280 like a lot, but it just sounds incredibly tricky. And 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.800 I do wonder about as law enforcement or enforcement tries to, 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.919 you know, prevent the crowds from coming, what kind of 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:11.679 conflicts we're going to see. I mean it kind of 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.600 scares me a little bit because you know people are 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:18.800 anti to get out. Well, I did talk to some 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:23.680 of the epidemiologists who's who who said, you know, summers coming, 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.480 people are gonna need need to get out there. You 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.280 know there is a way to do it that they 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.920 weren't saying, no, no way, don't do it. It's it's 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.959 too dangerous. But but there have to be some some 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.760 sort of limits. And you know that to your point, 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.600 I mean, how do you set that? How do you 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.520 how do you enforce that, especially in the talic Seatside Heights, 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.040 which is really you know, a fun town, a party town, 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.200 and um you know people people don't people go there 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.600 to let loose and and uh so, um so I 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.560 think just that in them itself makes it diff difficulty. 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:56.880 It definitely does. All Right, Well, it's a really nice 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.000 read and a good reality check. Devin Leonard always get 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.800 to catch up with you projects and investigations reporter. His 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.800 project this week was figuring out the Jersey Shore and 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:07.439 it's a really nice piece. You should check it out 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:12.080 on the Bloomberg and on Bloomberg dot com. And it's 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.120 going to be something we're gonna keep watching for sure. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:15.520 I have to say. One of the first beaches I 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.760 went to was my older sisters took me to Seaside 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.360 Heights specifically, and it's it's it is it's like where 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.720 your help with college kids go. I know, I know, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:25.280 I know, but I mean it's just they were quite, 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.159 you know, so much of their livelihood is what happens 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.440 in the summer season of all those people coming in. 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.800 And I was a funnel. I was a really little kid. 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:39.720 I was you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:44.680 Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. So as recent 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.120 tweet show President Trump continuing to point the finger out 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.400 China when it comes to the pandemic, this too, as 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.560 US China attentions, as we know, and as we've been 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.359 reporting over the last week or so, have once again increased. 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.560 In today's version of Business Week, Economic someone we often 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.560 turned to when we want you talk about what's going 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:05.080 on in China, how the US is approaching the nation. 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.800 David Retal is president and founder of Real Research Group. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.119 He rejoins us on the phone from San Francisco. Hey, 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.040 David's so nice to have you back with us. How 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.359 are you. How's your life? Very well, it's sheltering in 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.280 place like everyone else, but watching things from around the 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.800 world from from from here in the Bay Area. Yeah, 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.679 I'm curious about the conversations too. As the world reopens. 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.680 What are you guys discussing and the impact it's having. Well, 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:30.879 you're starting to see a lot of Asia emerge from this, 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.040 of course, with South South Korea and China emerged sort 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.400 of first. You're seeing some of Southeast Asia come out 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.560 of this. Now Unfortunately, a lot of the concern has 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.320 now shifted to Latin America, where you've got some of 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.360 the largest growing cases down there, and and and countries 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.320 really taking a different view. But in the emerging markets world, 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:48.520 Asia is the place to look first. I think Latin 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:50.679 America is a place to be a little cautious, and 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.520 we're still looking for opportunities in Europe, but it's hard 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:55.680 to tell what direction some of those economies are going 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:57.919 right now. David, I want to ask you about Hong 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.359 Kong because I feel like that's a situation where, you know, 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.879 we were very focused on it last fall, and I 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:09.040 was reminded by some colleagues here at Bloomberg of how focused, 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:11.720