Speaker 1: Broadcasting the balance and defending the discourse. I would like
Speaker 1: to welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where
Speaker 1: our mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. Today
Speaker 1: we are broadcasting from the hip hop Weaky Studios and
Speaker 1: I am your host, Rams's job. Big shout out to
Speaker 1: my man c Ward, who is back in the Middle
Speaker 1: East changing the world. And can't wait to have him
Speaker 1: back in the studio again soon. But for now, I
Speaker 1: have a couple of special guests in the building that
Speaker 1: are here to have a very important conversation. We've been
Speaker 1: saying some things about the goings on in Palestine, and
Speaker 1: we've been having these conversations. We feel that they are important,
Speaker 1: they are necessary, and I feel honored to have two
Speaker 1: people with us in the studio. One is Suzanne Oslom,
Speaker 1: who's been with us before. For those unacquainted, she is
Speaker 1: a human rights major and a former Miss Air USA
Speaker 1: souls an actress and activist turn writer. I've spent time
Speaker 1: in Palestine working with a peacekeeping team and she obviously
Speaker 1: has a deep personal understanding of the occupation, the Israeli
Speaker 1: occupation over there, and we have a new friend to
Speaker 1: myself into the show. He goes by the name Resistance
Speaker 1: is Beautiful, and actually I came across him for going
Speaker 1: viral a few times for bringing attention to the Palestinian
Speaker 1: people in the state of Palestine. And the fact of
Speaker 1: the matter is that there is a lot more in
Speaker 1: the way of conversation that we need to have with
Speaker 1: respect to what's going on over there, and so I
Speaker 1: appreciate you both coming to the show, and today I
Speaker 1: plan on really having some conversations that inform our listeners
Speaker 1: on ways that we can better support what's going on
Speaker 1: in Palestine on the ground from where we are here
Speaker 1: in the USA. So there's a lot to stick around for,
Speaker 1: so please do that. The first and foremost, We're going
Speaker 1: to start this show off with some Ebony excellence, and
Speaker 1: today's Abny Excellence is sponsored by Major Threads. For innovative,
Speaker 1: fashionable sportswear. Checkmajor threads dot com today for any excellence.
Speaker 1: We're going to keep in line with the theme, we're
Speaker 1: going to highlight a man who I believe exemplifies to
Speaker 1: any excellence. He goes by the name of Sean King.
Speaker 1: And the reason that we're shouting out Sean King is
Speaker 1: says an example of Aveny excellence is because he has
Speaker 1: really showed I think all of us what strength looks like,
Speaker 1: how powerful black voices can be, what allyship looks like.
Speaker 1: And he has been bold, very bold in the face
Speaker 1: of opposition. He is constantly sharing how he's at risk
Speaker 1: of being deep platform by showing videos and sharing content
Speaker 1: on social media that is causing a lot of people
Speaker 1: to question what's going on in Gaza with respect to
Speaker 1: the Palestinian people. I'm sure you're feelings with Sean King.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think he's nothing less than a hero, Absolutely sure.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And I know that you mentioned that
Speaker 1: you follow him.
Speaker 3: As well, right, Yeah, it's been so wonderful to have
Speaker 3: an American voice speak so passionately and so strongly and
Speaker 3: have so many connections to the people on the land
Speaker 3: that he's really been able to apply first hand accounts
Speaker 3: to a group of people who otherwise might not have
Speaker 3: that access.
Speaker 1: Right, right, And so what I'd like to do is
Speaker 1: have you look him up. Shawn is spelled s h
Speaker 1: A U N. Last name King like the conventional spelling.
Speaker 1: Be warned, there's a lot of graphic content there. But
Speaker 1: if you have a beating heart and a degree of empathy.
Speaker 1: I think that you will find that it's important the
Speaker 1: things that he's sharing with with people. So today I
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure that we shouted out Sean
Speaker 1: King for our ebony excellent. So today I'm going to
Speaker 1: start us off a little bit of a story. Now,
Speaker 1: I know that we've all had a conversation for the
Speaker 1: Black Information Network, and so I appreciate you coming back
Speaker 1: to do Civic Cipher with me because this is also
Speaker 1: near and dear to my heart. I feel it's important
Speaker 1: to share with people how you came into my life. Resistance,
Speaker 1: we'll call you resistance for short. But I saw a
Speaker 1: video of you at your house and what happened was
Speaker 1: police officer knocked on your door and there was someone
Speaker 1: recording you answering the door. And it's important to point
Speaker 1: out that the police officer was black and that you
Speaker 1: are a Palestinian man, Muslim Palestinian man. Yes, okay, it's
Speaker 1: a police officer's black officer knocks on your door and
Speaker 1: serves you with papers saying that you are not allowed.
Speaker 1: They're like trespassing papers or something. That let's go back
Speaker 1: to Arizona's at University, correct, and you know I saw
Speaker 1: this video. There were so many people that had viewed
Speaker 1: this this video. Oh man, it was crazy. I felt like,
Speaker 1: why am I seeing this so late? Because so many
Speaker 1: people had already gotten to it before me. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: know about this, especially happening in Arizona. But it was
Speaker 1: a conversation that followed that was so moving. Thank Effectually,
Speaker 1: what was communicated to the officer was thank you for
Speaker 1: bringing this to me. I consider this this paper a
Speaker 1: badge of honor. And a conversation ensued between you and
Speaker 1: the officer, and you articulated to the officer that you
Speaker 1: learned what resistance and what protesting was, and you're examples
Speaker 1: that you followed were examples of the officers, people of
Speaker 1: my people, of black people, absolutely, Nelson Mandela, Malcolm X, indeed,
Speaker 1: you know, and these great protesters from history who ultimately
Speaker 1: it turned out that they were on the right side
Speaker 1: and in the moments, you know, I think Nelson Mandela
Speaker 1: was on the terrorist list until eighteen. I believe.
Speaker 3: After he was president of the country, he.
Speaker 1: Was still on the terrorist So it ended up being
Speaker 1: the case that obviously Nelson Mandela was indeed the whole
Speaker 1: time on the right side of history correct. But what
Speaker 1: was very special about this video was the candor the
Speaker 1: nature of the communication. It wasn't combative, it wasn't angry,
Speaker 1: it was it came from a place of love, and
Speaker 1: that that sense of pride and that sense of love
Speaker 1: and that sense of uh brotherhood. Forgive me if I'm
Speaker 1: speaking for you far keep going. But that spirit I
Speaker 1: believe has been largely largely reflected in what I have
Speaker 1: seen of the Palestinian human beings. And so for you
Speaker 1: to be so close, it felt appropriate that I should
Speaker 1: reach out and see if you would honor me with
Speaker 1: your presence.
Speaker 2: You honor me, honestly, You honor us Palestinians, for giving
Speaker 2: us a voice, you know, at a time where you
Speaker 2: know you can be you know, death threats or smear
Speaker 2: campaigns or god knows what can be lobbied against you.
Speaker 2: Sure you know, so thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is this is what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1: So just if my hope is that I will have
Speaker 1: done right by you, you know, and that's really it.
Speaker 1: I'm honored. I know a moment ago that you you know,
Speaker 1: we're praying into witness a prayer. There's so many beautiful
Speaker 1: things about these people and about these and I feel
Speaker 1: like those things need to be shared on a broader stage,
Speaker 1: not just with Sean King and activists on TikTok and
Speaker 1: that sort of things. But there's a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: missing from the media space. And since I work in media,
Speaker 1: you know these are conversations I feel are very important.
Speaker 1: And you're no stranger to that, Suzan, because you've been
Speaker 1: on the show before obviously, to have this conversation. Hopefully,
Speaker 1: at some point in the future we can have conversations
Speaker 1: that aren't so heavy and based on people being harmed.
Speaker 1: But I appreciate you returning because I know that this
Speaker 1: can be a heavy lift mentally and spiritually for you
Speaker 1: as well to keep coming back and to keep having
Speaker 1: these conversations. So I admire your bravery and your consistency
Speaker 1: and helping us tell the stories from the Palestinian.
Speaker 3: In perspective what you said at on the other show
Speaker 3: that we were on together and the Black and Network
Speaker 3: is and you use the word obligation, it's just it's
Speaker 3: what we do. It's what we as Palestinians do, especially
Speaker 3: when we live we're living in America. We are so
Speaker 3: blessed to live in a place where we are free
Speaker 3: and we are safe, and there's not enough. There's never
Speaker 3: enough that people like us feel like we're doing. And
Speaker 3: so if there's an opportunity to do it in a
Speaker 3: way that we you know, you go out into the
Speaker 3: streets and you're on the corner of Fashion Square protesting,
Speaker 3: and that's something that you feel really good about and
Speaker 3: you're and you're making change in that way, and I
Speaker 3: write about it, and that's how I find the way
Speaker 3: to make And this is what we do, and this
Speaker 3: is who we are, and it's always going to be.
Speaker 3: You're just born into it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, resistance, resistance. Resistance comes in different forms, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: all we need all of it, all fronts, all horses, galloping, deliberation.
Speaker 1: Well, I would like to start in this conversation, as
Speaker 1: I do with many conversations I have, in the spirit
Speaker 1: of love, and because I'm aware that there are some people,
Speaker 1: perhaps because the information they've received or perhaps because of
Speaker 1: maybe their specific sensitivities, I want to speak love into
Speaker 1: this conversation from the beginning, and I want to close
Speaker 1: with that, if that's okay with me, Yes, sure. I
Speaker 1: would like for you to offer a word of kindness
Speaker 1: to your Jewish brothers and sisters will start with you.
Speaker 2: I would say first of all to my Jewish brothers
Speaker 2: and sisters. We share a lot in common. The way
Speaker 2: we dance, the way we eat, the way we celebrate,
Speaker 2: the way we talk. We share so much with one another.
Speaker 2: We live in peace in so many countries with each other.
Speaker 2: And one day, when Palestine has returned to us, we
Speaker 2: want the Jews to stay there just like they were
Speaker 2: before nineteen forty eight, before the invasion. They will beautify
Speaker 2: the land. We want the Jews, the Christians and the
Speaker 2: Muslims to live together, and the Atheists and the Mormons
Speaker 2: and the Catholics all together in Jerusalem and fall Asteine
Speaker 2: returned back to us, so that we can take care
Speaker 2: of everyone inside of it.
Speaker 1: This is what we want.
Speaker 2: And a special shout out to all of the incredible
Speaker 2: Jews around America that have been arrested for protesting for
Speaker 2: the Palestinians.
Speaker 1: They are heroes. You want to talk about civil disobedience,
Speaker 1: they got that down.
Speaker 2: And you know, my social media is full of videos
Speaker 2: of that of our Jewish brothers and sisters getting arrested
Speaker 2: because they're speaking out for Palestinians and against the Palestinian genocide,
Speaker 2: so definitely would love absolutely.
Speaker 3: Why are they speaking out because a horrible atrocity happened
Speaker 3: to their people not that long ago, in the lifetime
Speaker 3: of their grandparents, and they refuse to let it happen
Speaker 3: again and in their name it is it's a double offense.
Speaker 3: And it's to your point. I mean, who's the ones
Speaker 3: getting arrested the most on Capitol Hill? Like three hundred
Speaker 3: I think happened in one weekend. Is It is incredible
Speaker 3: And we feel so supported and so loved by organizations
Speaker 3: like Jewish Voice for Peace. They're my favorite ones. God,
Speaker 3: I love them, Rabbis for Human Rights, even internal organizations
Speaker 3: inside of Israel that denounce the occupation and support liberation
Speaker 3: of Palacin and people and look for ways for us
Speaker 3: to live in peace together. This is why, and we
Speaker 3: have to make this disclaimer because people like to use
Speaker 3: this stuff against us, But this is why. This is
Speaker 3: not about people. This is about resisting a government and
Speaker 3: the people are together.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So a lot has changed since we last
Speaker 1: talked to you and Isism, and I want to get
Speaker 1: an idea of how things sit since there was a
Speaker 1: I called it a cease fire but there was a
Speaker 1: pause in bombing. Oh, and that has resumed. Let's let's
Speaker 1: let's talk about that. How are you feeling now? Are
Speaker 1: you feeling more optimistic? Is there more information that is
Speaker 1: there more that we can do? And in that moment,
Speaker 1: I know that I was feeling hopeful that that would
Speaker 1: last longer than the five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I squashed your hope a little bit there when
Speaker 3: we talked about it earlier. Uh, there's it's weird. It's
Speaker 3: weird to balance two very opposing feelings at the same time.
Speaker 3: It's weird to go, oh, they they unpaused and then
Speaker 3: in one day killed seven hundred people, And if it
Speaker 3: was seven hundred Israelis people would be so and rightfully upset.
Speaker 3: Why are people not upset about seven hundred and one
Speaker 3: day after, right right after the pause? And so there's
Speaker 3: a part of us that we're just like, oh, come on, please,
Speaker 3: what are you doing?
Speaker 1: Be mad?
Speaker 3: We're mad, and it's never going to end. And you
Speaker 3: just see the journalists and Gaza who are getting thinner
Speaker 3: and getting more depressed and getting just less hopeful, and
Speaker 3: it's just so devastating. And then so I hold that
Speaker 3: I hold that pain and that frustration and then at
Speaker 3: the same time, I've never seen the world so united,
Speaker 3: and I think the media thought we would we would forget.
Speaker 3: And I know Palestinians will never forget, but I think
Speaker 3: we thought you would forget. And the media looked around
Speaker 3: and they're like, oh, people aren't forgetting. People, non Arabs,
Speaker 3: non Palestinians aren't dropping this. And I've never seen this before.
Speaker 3: And so at the end of the day, there is
Speaker 3: this weird hope because I've never felt so supported and
Speaker 3: loved by the international community the way I do now.
Speaker 3: I am not talking about governments, although there have been
Speaker 3: governments who've come out and support I am talking about
Speaker 3: citizens worldwide that are just saying no, I I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: We didn't see it before, but we hear you now,
Speaker 3: we see you now when we're with you, and we're
Speaker 3: not going to stop talking about.
Speaker 2: The hundreds of millions incredible.
Speaker 3: So I hold those dualities and it's a constant, daily,
Speaker 3: minute by minute back and forth between those two feelings.
Speaker 1: Resistance is beautiful, sir, Yes, sir. Another incredibly viral video
Speaker 1: of yours takes place at a shopping mall on Black Friday,
Speaker 1: and that one was booming. I saw the numbers on that.
Speaker 1: I was like, man, he is killing it. Okay. Anyway,
Speaker 1: right after that there was the pause and then the bombings,
Speaker 1: and I could not imagine. I could imagine, but I couldn't.
Speaker 1: You know, it's the same and it's different. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: I you know that I mentioned to you before. You
Speaker 1: know that I hope that I'm able to be as
Speaker 1: good a brother to you in this moment as I
Speaker 1: possibly can be. But I kind of want to get
Speaker 1: your thoughts on where the situation is in Gaza now,
Speaker 1: just how you feel about how things are going.
Speaker 2: And so, you know, for seventy five years, we've had
Speaker 2: to deal with this terrorist project known as Israel. For
Speaker 2: seventy five years. Nineteen forty eight, both sides of my
Speaker 2: grandparents were kicked out, no no chance of return. For
Speaker 2: a lot of us Palestinians, our parents, our grandparents, our
Speaker 2: great grandparents, they hang the keys of their homes on
Speaker 2: their walls.
Speaker 1: This is known. So if you enter a Palaesinian house.
Speaker 2: Of these some some of like some sort of key
Speaker 2: or something on the wall of the homes that they
Speaker 2: were kicked out of. So we've been dealing with this
Speaker 2: for seventy five years and to the point of Suzann
Speaker 2: my sister, what she's saying about, like, it feels so
Speaker 2: good that people are recognizing us because the first time
Speaker 2: in seventy five years that we feel like someone hears
Speaker 2: our voice say okay, the first time the feeling she has,
Speaker 2: all of us Palestinians have, this is the first time
Speaker 2: we feel like our voice is being heard. Seventy five
Speaker 2: years of drowning, being murdered and kicked out, and our
Speaker 2: culture being stolen from us. You know, they say, like
Speaker 2: the Israeli occupier saying that they created the food that
Speaker 2: we eat, they dance the way that we dance, they
Speaker 2: created the coffea that's ours everything, right, it's ethnic cleansing.
Speaker 2: They want to take like the dementor, you know, the
Speaker 2: dementor that sucks the soul, just everything, everything that you are.
Speaker 2: It's now us, right, what is ethnical that they're going
Speaker 2: to ethnically cleanse it and take it where for themselves
Speaker 2: and say we created all of this.
Speaker 1: Oh well, listen, I know a thing or two about that.
Speaker 1: I'm trying back. I'm sure you do.
Speaker 2: And so for us, this is what we've been dealing with.
Speaker 2: And then it got our land got shrunk and shrunk
Speaker 2: and trunk and trunk and trunk all the way to
Speaker 2: we have because is that which is twenty five miles,
Speaker 2: and we have.
Speaker 1: West Bank.
Speaker 2: As we're at today, twenty twenty three, with as a
Speaker 2: two point three million people as of today, as of
Speaker 2: this recording, one point nine million, as sends, one point
Speaker 2: nine million completely displaced, thirty thousand murdered, ten thousand of
Speaker 2: them being children. And that does not include the people
Speaker 2: under the rubble.
Speaker 1: So do the math.
Speaker 2: One point nine million displaced in sixty days. That is
Speaker 2: a murder and a crime against all of mankind.
Speaker 1: Okay, now this conversation is going to a little bit
Speaker 1: quicker than the one before. What do you say to
Speaker 1: people now after to your point, Israel has well defended itself,
Speaker 1: has responded, over responded in my estimation, but resistance, what
Speaker 1: do you say to people who say, well, they drop leaflets,
Speaker 1: they're trying to get to the tunnels, they're trying to
Speaker 1: root out sure a hamas so that this doesn't happen
Speaker 1: in Israel? Again, what do you say to people who
Speaker 1: have that position?
Speaker 2: Sure, that's like saying, you know here in America that
Speaker 2: the school shooter sent an email or dropped off some
Speaker 2: flyers before he shot up everyone in the school. So
Speaker 2: I ask to the American viewers who are listening now,
Speaker 2: is that an acceptable response, that the shooter of a
Speaker 2: school sent an email before he shot up the school,
Speaker 2: That the shooter of a school sent out some flyers
Speaker 2: before he did it. It is murderous, and our occupier
Speaker 2: is murderous. Our occupier is soulless, and our occupier dropping
Speaker 2: leaflets with bombs means nothing to us. They have no
Speaker 2: morals and they are trying to sell morality, and we
Speaker 2: know that it does not come from them. This is satanic,
Speaker 2: is what it is.
Speaker 1: Do you feel that the flyer, the dropping of the
Speaker 1: flyers maybe has something to do with keeping a narrative
Speaker 1: or crafting or cultivating a nrative to sell it.
Speaker 3: They gave them a dance morning, see exactly.
Speaker 2: It's a way to sell it, to convince the American
Speaker 2: public that it's okay to murder children. So I believe
Speaker 2: the American public now was waking up and recognizing this.
Speaker 1: And this is what I wanted to ask you, Suzanne.
Speaker 1: You know there's a lot of people. We're not the
Speaker 1: only people that can see these videos on TikTok, you know,
Speaker 1: like your videos and see the videos from like a
Speaker 1: Sean King. They have to be able to see that.
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the Israeli government, not about Jewish people.
Speaker 1: And I don't think any of us are talking about
Speaker 1: We're talking about government. Yes, conversations about a government. That
Speaker 1: government and their immense intelligence has to know that they
Speaker 1: are doing what they are doing with the I saw
Speaker 1: you showed me a video resistance and there was a
Speaker 1: there's a boy and he was rolling back and forth
Speaker 1: in pain. And you mentioned there was a special bomb
Speaker 1: that the so.
Speaker 2: Israel uses illegal weapons against children, and one of the
Speaker 2: weapons that they use is white phosphorus bombs. This is
Speaker 2: illegal and.
Speaker 1: There is at.
Speaker 2: Least tens of thousands of videos of white phosphorus bombs
Speaker 2: being dropped on Palaestinian's Palaesinian children. And the video you
Speaker 2: saw today that Sean King put up is of a
Speaker 2: child whose entire body is burned and he's rolling around
Speaker 2: because he cannot get that tingling feeling.
Speaker 1: Out of him. Oh okay, that's what it is.
Speaker 2: Yes, Either you are seeing footage of children torn up completely,
Speaker 2: their body parts ripped apart. Mang their skin just torn off.
Speaker 2: The weapons that are being dropped are designed to inflict harm.
Speaker 2: They are designed to annihilate. The bombs that drop have
Speaker 2: shrapannel in them that cut through, so many people get
Speaker 2: cut into pieces. You'll see footage of neighborhoods completely turned
Speaker 2: to dust. And America is funding. These are American bombs
Speaker 2: going to Israel. These are two terrorist, colonial, imperialistic nations
Speaker 2: intentionally murdering Palestinians.
Speaker 1: So I want to make sure that we circle back
Speaker 1: to that, because that's got to feel particularly hurtful to
Speaker 1: know that the United States has kind of adopted a
Speaker 1: very strong posture which seems to be in favor of
Speaker 1: the nation state of Israel and opposed to Palestine. But
Speaker 1: we're going to circle back to that because that obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, you two are people that can articulate that
Speaker 1: better than me.