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Speaker 1: Trust me, trust God.

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Speaker 2: Trust me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 4: I've never lived.

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Speaker 1: To you, do you think that one person has all

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Speaker 1: the answers?

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Speaker 5: Don't?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to trust Me?

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Speaker 2: The podcast about cults, extreme belief and the abusive power

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Speaker 2: from two hosts who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I am Lola.

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Speaker 5: Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today our guest is Naomi Gibson, whom you may have

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Speaker 2: seen featured in Seduced.

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Speaker 1: She was a member of two cults.

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Speaker 2: The first one, which she was actually born into, is

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Speaker 2: best known as the Children of God or the Family,

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Speaker 2: and the second one was, of course, Nexium.

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Speaker 4: There is so much to dig into with her that

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Speaker 4: we actually had to make it two separate episodes, but

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Speaker 4: in part one this week, she's going to talk to

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Speaker 4: us about growing up all over the world in the Family,

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Speaker 4: the Christian group whose leader David Berg, had total control

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Speaker 4: of their lives and whose abusive practices included pedophilia.

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Speaker 2: Naomi's going to tell us about living on a commune

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Speaker 2: in the Philippines, the separation from her family and abuse

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Speaker 2: that she suffered there. What flirty fishing is why it's

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Speaker 2: so hard to leave a group when you don't have

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Speaker 2: support waiting for you on the other side, and what

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Speaker 2: drove her mom to get them out, only for Naomi

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Speaker 2: to then grow up and become a member of Nexium.

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Speaker 2: And I want to give a little trigger warning here

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Speaker 2: because we are going to be discussing some abuse and

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Speaker 2: we are going to be discussing some murder as well,

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Speaker 2: So if that sounds too violent for you, I would

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Speaker 2: just skip this episode. Quick note, because there are way

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Speaker 2: too many cults called The Family. This is not the

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Speaker 2: group that's the subject of the Netflix documentary and associated

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Speaker 2: with Mike Pence, though I do hope to do an

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Speaker 2: episode on that group soon. It is also not to

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Speaker 2: be confused with the Australian called The Family, which is

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Speaker 2: actually run by a woman.

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Speaker 1: This is known as the Children of God.

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Speaker 2: They were a pretty horribly abusive group, obviously depending on

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Speaker 2: where and when you were in it, but they were

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Speaker 2: best known for their overtly sexual and abusive practices, which

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Speaker 2: for a period at least from the late sixties to

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Speaker 2: the early eighties, included openly encourage sex with strangers to

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Speaker 2: bring them into the group, as well as sexual.

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Speaker 1: Abuse of children.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot to dig into here, so much before

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Speaker 2: we jump in let's talk about the coldiest.

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Speaker 1: Thing this week.

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Speaker 2: The coldiest thing this week is gonna be something that's

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Speaker 2: actually in news because Megan and I are kind of

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Speaker 2: transfixed by this story.

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Speaker 4: It's so layered and so complex. I still have no

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Speaker 4: idea what one percent of it all means.

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Speaker 2: I have like a list of facts in fact, and

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Speaker 2: like it still doesn't even compute.

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Speaker 1: There's just so much. It's so sad.

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Speaker 2: We are talking about Lorie Valo and Chad day Bell,

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Speaker 2: and if you keep tabs on cult news, you'd probably

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Speaker 2: know who they are. But if you don't. Basically, in

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Speaker 2: September twenty nineteen, this woman named Lourie Valo, this Mormon,

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Speaker 2: Idaho woman, her two children went missing. There's a seven

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Speaker 2: year old boy named jaj and a seventeen year old

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Speaker 2: girl named Tylie. They were reported missing by their grandparents,

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Speaker 2: Laurie and her husband, Chad day Bell, not to be

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Speaker 2: confused with a fake name Chad that I gave my

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Speaker 2: former prophet in episode one, though they do have some

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Speaker 2: things in common. They told the police that the kids

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Speaker 2: were just in Arizona staying with someone, and then they

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Speaker 2: fled to Hawaii, where they were eventually found and served

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Speaker 2: a court order demanding them to produce the children, but

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Speaker 2: they didn't and they were arrested.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I just have to start off with that this

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Speaker 4: was her fifth husband, which to me.

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Speaker 1: Is way it was. I didn't even get that. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, we have been married zero.

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Speaker 5: Times, Lola.

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Speaker 4: What really was happening there was that he's this doomsday

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Speaker 4: prepper and he writes these really kind of hilarious fiction books.

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Speaker 4: She got really into his fiction books about the end

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Speaker 4: of times and started emailing with him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so she became kind of obsessed with him. She

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Speaker 2: went on a podcast with him in twenty fifteen. She

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Speaker 2: was married to someone else at the time still but

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Speaker 2: with the man named Charles, and basically began saying to

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Speaker 2: her husband that she was the reincarnated wife of Joseph Smith, who,

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Speaker 2: as you guys may remember, was the original founder of Mormonism.

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Speaker 2: And then she vanished for fifty eight days. So she's

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Speaker 2: apparently off with Chad day Bell during these fifty eight

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Speaker 2: days doing god knows what, and together they were in

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Speaker 2: this doomsday group called Preparing a People, which on its

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Speaker 2: website listed its mission as to quote prepare the people

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Speaker 2: of this earth for the second coming of christ red flag.

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Speaker 2: Little bit of a red flag there anytime we're talking

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Speaker 2: about the Second Coming.

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Speaker 1: It was little nervous about that.

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Speaker 2: Chad was actually a BYU graduate, so these are just

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Speaker 2: like Mormon people. He was a BYU grad with a

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Speaker 2: journalism degree who had worked as a grave digger. Fun fact,

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Speaker 2: written all these doomsday books for Mormon audiences, which are

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Speaker 2: just like natural disasters, like dystopian end of world fantasies basically,

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Speaker 2: and Chad claimed that he had a visionary gift which

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Speaker 2: allegedly led him to see the death of his first wife, Tammy,

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Speaker 2: and then he would just hear voices telling him to

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Speaker 2: do things. He heard a voice telling him to move

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Speaker 2: to Idaho.

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Speaker 4: So well, of course you can see the vision of

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Speaker 4: your first wife dying if you're the one who's going

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Speaker 4: to murder her.

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Speaker 2: Wait is, how did his oh right, the one who

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Speaker 2: died of quote natural causes? Uh huh right, Okay, so

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Speaker 2: let's talk about all the deaths surrounding these people before

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Speaker 2: we get into what happened to the children.

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Speaker 4: Oh my, so his first wife, her fourth husband, her brother,

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Speaker 4: her brother killed her fourth husband. Then her brother got killed.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, am I, it's already hurting my brain.

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Speaker 5: It's just a lot a lot of This's a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Death, and the causes of death are all listed as

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Speaker 2: natural causes, or one of them was listed as self defense.

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Speaker 2: But like when that many people around you are dying

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Speaker 2: and disappearing, it just makes you wonder how many people

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Speaker 2: are murdered and nobody ever knows about it?

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Speaker 5: You mean, just in the world at hole, Yes, totally.

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Speaker 2: Chad's wife died of natural causes quote according to Oribituary,

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Speaker 2: two weeks before he married Laurie Valo, and he had

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Speaker 2: heard a voice saying that she was going to die.

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Speaker 1: Hmm, very interesting.

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Speaker 4: And they were living off of her insurance money ps.

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Speaker 4: Laurie wants her Ballery duce to get out because she

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Speaker 4: says her only source of income is his ex wife's

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Speaker 4: insurance money, so there's no way she can afford the

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Speaker 4: two million dollar bill whoa so.

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Speaker 2: In July of last year, before the children were reported missing,

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Speaker 2: Laurie's brother Alex killed her ex husband, Charles, who had

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Speaker 2: filed for divorce. In the divorce documents that he filed

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Speaker 2: before he died, he claimed Laurie told him that she

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Speaker 2: was a quote translated being who cannot taste death, sent

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Speaker 2: by God to lead the one hundred and forty four

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Speaker 2: thousand into the millennium.

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Speaker 5: And then we have to admit that's poetic. Ah Uh?

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Speaker 2: Do we?

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Speaker 5: She never has to taste death? Is that what she said?

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Speaker 1: Translated being who cannot taste death?

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Speaker 5: It does? It is?

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Speaker 1: It is quite beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm guessing she can taste death, has tasted some

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Speaker 2: other people's death as well. Yeah, So her brother kills

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Speaker 2: her husband, and Chad's wife also dies, and then they

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Speaker 2: get married, and then the brother who killed the husband

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Speaker 2: who moved to Idaho with Laurie and her family, and.

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Speaker 1: Chad also dies.

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Speaker 5: Huh.

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Speaker 2: Cut to June of this year, Laurie and Chad are

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Speaker 2: both in prison for a number of charges pertaining to

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Speaker 2: basically like not producing the children I think, and Chad

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Speaker 2: Dabel's home was searched and they found the remains of

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Speaker 2: both JJ and Tylie.

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Speaker 4: Trigger violence warning. It is fucked up. Kylie was dismembered.

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Speaker 4: Did you read that?

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Speaker 2: Uh? I kind of my brain kind of went hazy

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Speaker 2: on the specifics because I was like, this is really sad,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, their bodies were pretty messed up and they.

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Speaker 4: Were they were Yeah, hers was like unrecognizable burnt, and

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Speaker 4: they said JJ's was kind of more well kept.

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Speaker 5: But I don't know, it's just so crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they they clearly believe the end of the world

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Speaker 2: is coming and that they're both like celestial beings to

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Speaker 2: whom morality does not apply. And I just like, I

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Speaker 2: am dying to know how the fuck they thought that

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Speaker 2: killing the children was going to help with the second coming.

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Speaker 2: You know, you and I definitely know how brainwashed people

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Speaker 2: can be and how twisted.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, what I keep hearing is Moses saying

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Speaker 4: about the cult that he grew up in, which had

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Speaker 4: Andrea Yeats, who murndered all of her children, and he

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Speaker 4: was scared that his Moses storm.

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Speaker 5: I think he was our second episode. Yes, that his.

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Speaker 4: Mom might do the same, because it's kind of a

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Speaker 4: protective thing, like the end of the world is coming,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be awful. I'm going to save my

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Speaker 4: children first.

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Speaker 2: Or like if maybe if I believe that they're sinning,

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Speaker 2: I somehow, in my twisted idea that I have about

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Speaker 2: what reality is, maybe you think that you'll be saving

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Speaker 2: them from the sin that they're committing, right, and that

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Speaker 2: way they'll go to have it like who knows what

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Speaker 2: the mentality is. It could be anything, but it is

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Speaker 2: really really really tragic and sad and scary and all

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Speaker 2: the bad things. But I can't wait to find out

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Speaker 2: what happens to them and like how they're sentenced and

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Speaker 2: what's going on this week. There's like lots of weird,

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Speaker 2: complicated stuff going on with the court cases. Basically they're

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Speaker 2: trying to say that a jury in their area could

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Speaker 2: never be impartial. So anyway, that's the big cult thing

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Speaker 2: this week that just the general news of that, just

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Speaker 2: the story is just so it's more more interesting than

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Speaker 2: any of our weird personal shit we have going off.

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Speaker 5: Yeah for sure.

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Speaker 2: Well, anyway, on that very heavy dark note, we should

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Speaker 2: talk to someone who Naomi, who is great to talk

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Speaker 2: to and it's amazing how normal and cool she is

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Speaker 2: given these like crazy experiences that she's had.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely let's talk to her.

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Speaker 1: Welcome, Naomi, So nice to have you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So your story is incredible because you have not

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Speaker 2: one but two cults in your background, one that's in

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Speaker 2: the news nextim and the other one which is one

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Speaker 2: that I am very interested in myself, which is the

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Speaker 2: Children of God aka the family.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, actually it is the family aka the Children

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Speaker 3: of God, the children of Okay, was given by a

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Speaker 3: newspaper and call them the children of God because that's

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Speaker 3: what they kind of look like. They look like these

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Speaker 3: young people, oh wow, the word of God. And then

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Speaker 3: the family kind of took that on. But nobody in

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Speaker 3: the family really calls it the children of God. It's

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Speaker 3: kind of gotcha newspaper or media kind of things, just

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Speaker 3: like a nixium. We I never called it nixium. I

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Speaker 3: always called it esp secutive success Program. So it's kind

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Speaker 3: of funny how the media takes these names and makes

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Speaker 3: it a nixium. I guess in and of itself was

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Speaker 3: the was the company right? And I guess executive success

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Speaker 3: program doesn't really give it this like I don't know mystique,

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Speaker 3: you know, because everyone's like, ooh, nixim, what's that? How

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Speaker 3: do you say it? And like, you know who I think? So,

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Speaker 3: I think it's interesting how the media really takes on

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Speaker 3: and creates another life for these organizations.

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Speaker 2: So I would love to know start us at the

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Speaker 2: beginning with the children of God. How how is your

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Speaker 2: family involved? Can you tell us about that?

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Speaker 3: I mean, as a whole everything is always good, right,

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Speaker 3: Like there's a good message behind it, there's you know,

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Speaker 3: spreading the word of God. You know. It was founded

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Speaker 3: by a guy named David who, David Berg, who was

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Speaker 3: a quote unquote prophet. He had a dream, but there

241
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Speaker 3: was a lot of manipulation. I mean, all the tactics

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Speaker 3: of a cult, you know, are happening in the Children

243
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Speaker 3: of God. My dad found it in college and then

244
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Speaker 3: decided to leave me, leave New Mexico and go to

245
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Speaker 3: South America, where he ultimately met my mom. And my

246
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Speaker 3: mom had joined a little bit prior to meeting my father,

247
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Speaker 3: and my mom was Catholic, you know, had a whole

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Speaker 3: kind of searching and wanting more, and here's this group,

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Speaker 3: you know, just positive young people, you know, and that

250
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Speaker 3: was really I think that at the heart of all

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Speaker 3: of these organizations is that these there's a searching and

252
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Speaker 3: a longing for place and wanting to do good right,

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Speaker 3: and these organizations they cater to that, they market that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how you mean, you can use all

255
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Speaker 3: the words right to but if the heart of it

256
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Speaker 3: are these really good people who want to do good things.

257
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Speaker 3: But then at the real center of it all is

258
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Speaker 3: usually and unfortunately a man. You know, sometimes there's a

259
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Speaker 3: woman at the heart of it. I mean, right now,

260
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Speaker 3: the family is still going. It's a woman named Karen

261
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Speaker 3: Zerby is still leading it.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, I had no idea. I thought it had

263
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Speaker 2: kind of dissipated by now.

264
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Speaker 3: No, no, it's still. It's still there. I mean, it's

265
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Speaker 3: not as strong as it once was, but it's definitely

266
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Speaker 3: it's definitely there. We were living, I mean, we lived

267
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Speaker 3: in many places. But my dad moved to South America

268
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Speaker 3: and that's where he met my mom. So my mom

269
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Speaker 3: and him were living in Ecuador. I think they moved

270
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Speaker 3: to Albuquerque, that's where my dad's family's from. And then

271
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Speaker 3: in Albuquerque they had my brother. Then we moved back

272
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Speaker 3: to Argentinax. My mom wanted to live near her dad

273
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Speaker 3: while they're in the family the whole while this organization

274
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Speaker 3: is you know, part of their lives.

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Speaker 2: So you live in India for a while, and then

276
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Speaker 2: you moved to the Philippines.

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Speaker 3: So then so we were living at the Jumbo, which

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Speaker 3: is this kind of commune. It was a commune, it

279
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Speaker 3: was a it was a pretty intense place to live.

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Speaker 2: Can you just paint a picture of like what everyday

281
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Speaker 2: life is like like what are you what kind of

282
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Speaker 2: homes are you living in?

283
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Speaker 5: Like what?

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Speaker 2: I just want to have a like a visual what's

285
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Speaker 2: the jumbo look like?

286
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Speaker 3: Well, okay, I mean when we lived in India, we

287
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 3: lived in some pretty cool homes. I mean, it's not

288
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 3: a very wealthy country, so having a little bit of

289
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 3: money can get you, I think, a nice place. I

290
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,560
Speaker 3: think we lived in three different places. We lived in Mangalore, Bangalore,

291
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Speaker 3: and Madras and they were just nice homes, nice little houses.

292
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Speaker 3: I think one of them had a little pool on

293
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Speaker 3: the inside of it. Life was good in India. We

294
00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 3: would have a certain family that would be living with

295
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 3: us and or they would be staying with us for

296
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Speaker 3: a little bit and then moving on to another city

297
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:12,200
Speaker 3: or country. And my parents they did missionary work, so

298
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Speaker 3: they would pass out the pamphlets and the tapes that

299
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Speaker 3: the organization made and try to get people to join

300
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Speaker 3: the organization, you know, join the family. And the Indian

301
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,000
Speaker 3: people are very warm and welcoming people, you know, and

302
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Speaker 3: would often invite us in and we would have dinner

303
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Speaker 3: and you know, it was it was very uh, I

304
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 3: feel like peaceful, you know. I mean, religion is really

305
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,400
Speaker 3: big there, so speaking about religion, there wasn't any persecution

306
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,480
Speaker 3: around what we were trying to do. It was always

307
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,400
Speaker 3: welcomed and open and you know, an open dialogue to

308
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 3: discuss faith in all of those things. You know, my

309
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,480
Speaker 3: dad was obviously at the height of it, and that

310
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 3: was his career, that was his job. He was a

311
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 3: writer as well, so he would you know, maybe sometimes

312
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 3: write for different publications and in Argentina he wrote for

313
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,239
Speaker 3: some so that's how he kind of got by financially.

314
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Speaker 3: And then when we were asked to move to the Jumbo,

315
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 3: that's where a lot of the leadership was. And at

316
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,840
Speaker 3: the time the organization was being persecuted. You know, there

317
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,800
Speaker 3: was a lot of things happening in Brazil, and you

318
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,320
Speaker 3: know there were a lot of people looking at it

319
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 3: from a standpoint of that they were not doing things right,

320
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Speaker 3: and David was not. He was a predator, pedophile, rapist

321
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Speaker 3: and you know all of the things. I mean, he

322
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,040
Speaker 3: had many names for himself and I have many names

323
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Speaker 3: for him now. Anyway, the Jumbo was it was in Asia,

324
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Speaker 3: so kind of on the water, so there were different

325
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Speaker 3: buildings and little bridges and huge compound I mean massive,

326
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Speaker 3: I mean there were hundreds of people that lived there,

327
00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 3: so it was you know, very remote in ice elated,

328
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,119
Speaker 3: and you know, we would leave sometimes and go to

329
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 3: you know, people's homes and have dinners and talk about

330
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Speaker 3: you know, I remember my parents talking about it. Sometimes

331
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Speaker 3: we would sing and you know, do a little performance

332
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Speaker 3: for them. At the whole it was really wholesome, you know,

333
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 3: really when you break it down, but then underneath it

334
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:26,639
Speaker 3: all is this dark layer of suppression, control, abuse. You know,

335
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 3: you asked, how what these families like, what they look like,

336
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,879
Speaker 3: you know what the jumbo looked like. It had a

337
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,480
Speaker 3: guard at the gate, you know, with a huge gate.

338
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 3: They were being protected by the government. So the government

339
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:46,199
Speaker 3: offered David Birds and you know, his organization kind of

340
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 3: an asylum so to speak, because of the persecution that

341
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 3: was going on in the world. So he was very elusive.

342
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,920
Speaker 3: You know, it said he was there. I remember seeing him,

343
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,439
Speaker 3: but then oftentimes lot of the members would dress up

344
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,919
Speaker 3: as him and you know, yeah, and you know, because

345
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,160
Speaker 3: he wasn't really he was. You know, he knew who

346
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 3: he was. I think ultimately why he wasn't really outwardly

347
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 3: to all of us, you know, and had to kind

348
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,399
Speaker 3: of hide. I think personally, you know, and you know,

349
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 3: but everybody just loved him who was in the group.

350
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,400
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, his teachings were like the teachings

351
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Speaker 3: from Jesus, because he said he was a prophet from God.

352
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Speaker 3: And that's where I feel like it's just so dangerous.

353
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 3: You know, these these guys and these people can say

354
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,679
Speaker 3: and have so much clout by saying these things that

355
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 3: people ultimately want to believe. We want to believe that

356
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 3: there is a higher purpose and that humans can tap

357
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,640
Speaker 3: into that, you know. I think why we're so susceptible

358
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 3: to that kind of belief system. We're looking for answers,

359
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 3: especially when you feel lost and you feel like you

360
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,680
Speaker 3: want to do some good, when there's so much darkness,

361
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 3: you know, in the world. You're like, oh wow, this

362
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 3: guy is like saying all the things I want to

363
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 3: do with my life, you know, and it sounds so good.

364
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 3: And I think that's the saddest thing is they use

365
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 3: such good terms and such good ideals and such good

366
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 3: ideology and ultimately twist it to cater to their predatory

367
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,399
Speaker 3: belief system, you know. And I think it's conscious, and

368
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 3: I think it's subconscious. I think it's how far can

369
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 3: I go. You know, I don't really think this was

370
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 3: the early eighties, like late seventies, so a lot of

371
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 3: the practices of the organization weren't geared towards the children.

372
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 3: It was more towards just gaining new recruits and you know, yeah,

373
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 3: or members. It is a systematic like militant and doctrination

374
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,359
Speaker 3: that happens with these organizations. And I think one of

375
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 3: the main ones was the tactics they used were sex,

376
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 3: you know, and finding their members through dating them, through

377
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 3: having children with them, and ultimately bringing them into the fold.

378
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 1: Is flirty fishing the family thing.

379
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, hmmm. Yeah, So like that's kind of that idea.

380
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 3: I think there were like seven stages of the seven

381
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 3: or eight stages of the indoctrination or bringing in new members,

382
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 3: and one of them was the flirty fishing. And oftentimes

383
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 3: it was being promoted to women doing it, but men could.

384
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 3: Men did it too. Obviously they did it to you know,

385
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 3: find the women members, but women were encouraged to do

386
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 3: the flirty fishing to get you know, higher level people,

387
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 3: you know, police, people of stature, to kind of like

388
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,919
Speaker 3: bring them in and allow them to see good in

389
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 3: the organization. So you know, and then if ultimately they

390
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 3: had children with them, then of course they were being

391
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 3: supported either financially they involved themselves in the organization.

392
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 5: Did it work Yeah?

393
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, I mean you have these pretty girls, you know,

394
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 3: of course. Yeah, I mean that I think that happens

395
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 3: all the time, right, I mean, you know, you put

396
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: yourself out there and you tell them how amazing this

397
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 3: organization is. Of course people are going to be like, oh, yeah,

398
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 3: you know, and it's there at the height of it

399
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 3: is God, you know, you know, so how could you

400
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 3: go wrong? You know? And that's I think. You know, well,

401
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 3: you have David the Prophet, and of course he's he's there,

402
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 3: this kind of ominous figure traveling the world, you know,

403
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 3: spreading his teachings through what he called the mo Letters.

404
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 3: But you know, I think it definitely, I mean, I

405
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 3: think it definitely worked because it the organization was very big.

406
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 3: I think at one point I was I looked at it.

407
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 3: My family was already out, but I was looking online

408
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 3: and on their website they had like over one hundred

409
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 3: thousand members.

410
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: What wow, and all over the place.

411
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: It's it seems like everyone I've talked to who was

412
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: in the family just lived in so many different places

413
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: all over the world, right.

414
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 3: Because well, one of their tactics were to continue to

415
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 3: spread write their message, so you had to live in

416
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 3: different places. And also when something happened, like if somebody

417
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,919
Speaker 3: was being you know, investigated for some of the practices,

418
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 3: that that meant get everybody out. And so at one

419
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: point everybody was you know, a lot of people were

420
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 3: in India. We were in India at that point. You know,

421
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 3: everything was about communal living. So you know, to obviously

422
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 3: have people living together, that creates stronger bonds. And a

423
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: lot of times they would separate the families from each

424
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 3: other because you know, the closer you are to your family,

425
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 3: the closer you are to me potentially wanting to leave, right,

426
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 3: you have that unit of support to leave. But if

427
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 3: you separate the children from the mothers, the children from

428
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 3: the fathers, and the wives from the husbands, you know,

429
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 3: then those new relationships build, you know, you know, and

430
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 3: a lot of it was this idea of open marriage

431
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 3: I think, you know, and there wasn't really that idea

432
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: of you know, marriages between just your the husband and

433
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 3: the wife. You know. It was really open style to

434
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 3: I think, create this environment where no two people were

435
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: a unit. You know, there wasn't this idea of family unit,

436
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 3: because then if there were, then you could easily start

437
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 3: seeing the force through the trees or start saying, you know,

438
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 3: we want something different, let's do something different for our family,

439
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 3: let's move out, and then you lose those members.

440
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: When you're close to someone, you have someone to confide

441
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: your doubts, and when you're kept apart from people, you

442
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 2: have to kind of keep that you're alone.

443
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 3: You're alone, and you're in a new environment and you're

444
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 3: having to survive. And that's really what happens in these organizations.

445
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 3: You are literally, you know, vulnerable, so vulnerable because you're

446
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: looking for the answers and the truth of life, right,

447
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 3: and then here you have this person or these people

448
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 3: telling you how to be, telling you how to how

449
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 3: to how to live, that everything in your life is

450
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: about sin, and you get sick, your sinner, you do this,

451
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 3: your sinner, your child gets sick. There, you've done something wrong.

452
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 3: So you're constantly having to repent and having to feed

453
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 3: that animal of like of doubt within you and looking

454
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 3: for the answers within them, outside of yourself. And so

455
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 3: that is the ultimate level of controls. Then you literally

456
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 3: have no self power and you have no self identity

457
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 3: because everything is about them and the other. And you know,

458
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: even your money, even the money you earn, the money

459
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 3: you get from your family. I mean, that's the danger

460
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 3: I feel what happened with our family. I mean, and

461
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 3: I think the through line between Nixium and Catherine's story

462
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: and the women behind, you know, bringing it down ultimately

463
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: with the women were the most victimized. But you know,

464
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 3: I think women banded together and they really saw that

465
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: there was something wrong right and my my mom and

466
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 3: my grandma were the ones who ultimately helped get us out,

467
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: you know. And there was a twenty twenty investigative report

468
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 3: and really a lot of the dangerous things were happening,

469
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 3: I mean everywhere, but happening in the Philippines and then

470
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: in Brazil.

471
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: We're talking about the family.

472
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 3: Now, we're talking about the family, yes, And you know

473
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 3: that's what helped my mom and my grandma, you know,

474
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 3: see the light, see things for what they truly.

475
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 5: Were the twenty twenty like open their eyes.

476
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, and it's it. My grandma

477
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: saw My grandma always knew that there was something not

478
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 3: right about it. But what can you do? You know,

479
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: when your family and your child and they have a

480
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 3: family and they're living in a life that they say

481
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 3: is good for them, you know, all you have to

482
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 3: do is either you can either disown them or you

483
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 3: can either support them. And my grandma supported us and

484
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 3: supported my dad always has And when twenty twenty did

485
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: this aired the segment, my grandma sent it to my

486
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 3: dad and my mom and my dad didn't want to

487
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: watch it, but my mom did. And we weren't living

488
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 3: in the Philippines at the time of Jumbo, and she

489
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 3: found a TV, you know, in one of the tv

490
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 3: you know, in one of the rooms, and sat down

491
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 3: with a couple other people and my dad and watched it.

492
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 3: I think that's when like the puzzle of this organization

493
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 3: of what it really was and all the things that

494
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 3: my mom kind of knew and felt, but you know,

495
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 3: always was being like no, no, no, it's fine, No, no, no,

496
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 3: that's you. She had a best friend who was suffering

497
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: from cancer and they didn't want her to have treatment.

498
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 3: Oh wow, because basically, if you had a sickness, you

499
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: were a sinner, You've done something wrong and that so

500
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: and they didn't believe in going to the hospital. That

501
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: was one of the things, like one of the triggering

502
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 3: things that my mom was like, wait a minute, this

503
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 3: doesn't seem right, you know, like she's dying, like she

504
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 3: needs medical treatment. At this point, it's like it's beyond

505
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 3: like sinning from God. It's like, right, there is options here.

506
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 3: And they finally let her go home. She's I think Canadian.

507
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: They finally let her go home, and where she was

508
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 3: she passed away with her family. I mean, at least

509
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: she was able to be with her family during that time.

510
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 3: But it was that was one thing I think that

511
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 3: my mom saw and was this is like, this is

512
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 3: not right. And then she saw the twenty twenty segment

513
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 3: and another thing was like this isn't right. There's something

514
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 3: wrong here. And that one was a lot about the

515
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: child abuse and some of the child pornography. I think

516
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 3: that was happening in Brazilian. It was it was having

517
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: a little girls dancing, you know, naked or topless from

518
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: what I remember seeing, So that was one of the

519
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 3: things that they were being I think accused of, plus

520
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 3: some other things. I can't really remember all the details.

521
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 3: I mean, there's so much to unpact with this. But

522
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 3: and my mom was having issues with a lot of

523
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: the things like her friend being sick not getting the

524
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 3: treatment you know this twenty twenty segment. So she was

525
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 3: kind of stirring up some anger and some confusion and

526
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 3: wanting answers. And they didn't like that. And so what

527
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: do you do in an organization where you have the

528
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 3: ultimate control over the family over you. They want to

529
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: separate us. So they wanted to send my older brother

530
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: to another family and then ultimately me and my other brother.

531
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 3: And at the time, I barely saw my mom when

532
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: we lived there. We were all separated by age. We

533
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: would maybe see them at the dining hall, but we

534
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 3: would never sit together. So they were already doing that

535
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: separation of family, trying to break that unit, you know,

536
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: of our family unit, because we were very close obviously

537
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: when we were living in the India, and everything changed

538
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: when we went to the Philippines. Everything.

539
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 5: Can I ask, were you sleeping like with the kid

540
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 5: was it like a kid room or were you.

541
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were all separated by age, so I was

542
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 3: with kids my own age, and I mean it was

543
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it's pretty grim, you know what what we

544
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: were exposed to and in terms of the abuse, you know,

545
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: and it was and it was just these this punishment.

546
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 3: We couldn't do anything, anything that we did that was

547
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: any remotely any innocent thing a kid does or just

548
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 3: mischievous thing a kid does, we were punished for. They

549
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: had these little sticks and they would hit us on

550
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 3: the back of their leg our legs, you know, for

551
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: any reason. And then, you know, sometimes it would be worse,

552
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 3: but you know, for the most part, that was the

553
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: everyday occurrence. And then I, you know, I was sexually

554
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: abused one night, and that kind of changed my life,

555
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 3: you know, in terms of the safety that I felt

556
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: in my little bubble that you are your five year

557
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: old kid, and so I started having nightmares. And then

558
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 3: those nightmares they allowed me to move up to my

559
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: brother Mike's the middle child's section. But again I had

560
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: to sleep with this woman named Joy, who was a

561
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: horrible person. She uh, she was just very angry. I

562
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: don't know what her deal was. I think she had

563
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: I remember she had a daughter, and her daughter was

564
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: always well, you know, I think she had some mental

565
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: disability that wasn't being addressed properly, and so that would

566
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: make her very angry and she would take it out

567
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 3: on us. That's all I remember from her. And so

568
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: then she was our caretaker, and so I remember having

569
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: to sleep with her and I every night I would

570
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: wake up and then crawl into my brother's little bed

571
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 3: because I, you know, I was I think at the time,

572
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: I was just really feeling alone and I needed connection,

573
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: and you know, all those things happened and I didn't.

574
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 3: You know, it's like you're it's so confusing, and everything

575
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: was about punishment. Everything everything you did was about you know, control,

576
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: and there was no free will, there was no ability

577
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: to enjoy. And then the moments of enjoyment and the

578
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: moments of you know, celebration were always around the leader

579
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 3: and always around David, you know, and celebrating him just

580
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 3: similar to Nixium, you know, similar to that way where

581
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: there was Vanguard Week and everyone got together, you know,

582
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: this retreat, you know, and for adults, you know, to

583
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: celebrate Vanguard's birthday.

584
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: Can you tell us who Ricky Rodriguez is? I think

585
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: I read that he is. He was David Berg's adopted son.

586
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: Ricky Rodriguez killed his caretaker and then killed himself, and

587
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: he was abused and he was used in a lot

588
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: of the mo letters teachings as examples, you know, and

589
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: his whole life was just riddled with sexual abuse and

590
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: just awful. I mean, there's yeah, it's horrifying, I mean,

591
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: and it's horrifying what a lot of these young people

592
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: have to experience in organizations that are so removed from society,

593
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 3: or they called it the system, because they don't have

594
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: any formal education, they don't have any knowledge of how

595
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: the world really works. The system was this dark and

596
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 3: scary place, you know, and the family was hopeful and

597
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 3: filled with all the good things that you were going

598
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 3: to go to heaven and all these things, you know.

599
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: And I think at the heart of it, one thing

600
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 3: is is how these organizations financially enslave people. You know,

601
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 3: so a lot of families are working, and all the

602
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: money is pooled towards the to the organization or the

603
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: cult or whatever you want to call it, and the

604
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: option of getting out is almost impossible unless you have

605
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: a family to support you, and oftentimes you don't, and so,

606
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: you know, and that's kind of I think, really what

607
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: keeps people in, It's that the family keeps these people saying,

608
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: you know, well, there's no option, there's no other option,

609
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: and they don't feel like there is another option. I mean,

610
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: there's just so much to talk about in terms of

611
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: my experience. But you know, we ultimately got out because

612
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 3: of my mom and my grandma. We moved to Albuquerque,

613
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 3: and you know, I never really talked about what happened

614
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 3: to me and my brothers and I we never really

615
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 3: talked about it, and my family never really talked about

616
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: it because my dad ended up going back in and

617
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 3: I didn't for another five years, and he stayed in

618
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: for quite some time.

619
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: So you your mom leaves the family when you're still

620
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: a kid, right.

621
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 3: So yeah, I was six years old when my mom

622
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: was like, I'm out, like, fop this shit. My friend

623
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: is dead, that my you know, your family is sending

624
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 3: me this stuff about this organization that you know, the

625
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: family on the news. That's like horrific, and you know,

626
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: I can't see my children and they want me to

627
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 3: have my children leave this, leave me, and she knew

628
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 3: she would never see us again. She was like, she

629
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: was like, I'm not doing that over my dead body,

630
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 3: so she said, and like bless her, you know, and

631
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 3: so and so my dad was ultimately upset. I mean,

632
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 3: this was his livelihood. This was his job, this was

633
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: his life, you know, and he'd worked his entire life

634
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 3: to get there, and he was at the nearing the top,

635
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 3: you know, nearing leadershi, you know, and that feels really

636
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: good for anybody, you know, and have that all stripped

637
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 3: away because your wife is like, I'm not having it because.

638
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 5: It was just like whoa, I'm gonna save my kids.

639
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't see it that way. He didn't. He wasn't.

640
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,919
Speaker 3: He was disconnected. I think from what we were going

641
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: through our experience, the fact that, you know, he was

642
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 3: so indoctrinated into the belief system that it was probably

643
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 3: good for my brother because my brother Ben, he's like

644
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: add he's like the problem kid, like always getting into trouble.

645
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: And so I'm sure in a way he thought that, oh,

646
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 3: another family could potentially help him. Oh wow, and how

647
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 3: they see that and how they twist it, and it's like, oh, well,

648
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 3: this is a good thing for him, This would be

649
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: good to have this experience, right, And my mom was like,

650
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 3: uh ah, this is not good. Fuck that shit, you know.

651
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 3: And so we left. We lived with my dad's mom,

652
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: We lived with my grandma, and my mom's dad was

653
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 3: still in Argentina, and you know, part of me wishes

654
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 3: we would have moved to Argentina. I think it would

655
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 3: have been a lot less culture shock for us. Again

656
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 3: going back to like the American assimilation and all of that.

657
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 3: I mean, it really was, you know, because we hadn't

658
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 3: lived in America. That was our first time. And yeah,

659
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 3: we spoke English and all of that, but it was

660
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 3: just a huge culture shock for us, and I think

661
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 3: a really big shock for my dad. I think he ultimately,

662
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 3: you know, my grandfather had a business and brought was

663
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 3: bringing into it and construction and excavation, and my dad

664
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 3: just wasn't into it and he wanted to go back.

665
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 3: I think there was a it was hard to assimilate,

666
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 3: and I think, you know, we didn't have that cult

667
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 3: expert therapy people waiting for us, right, you know, and like, hey,

668
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 3: we'll help you guys assimilate into America after being in

669
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 3: this really horrible organization where you guys were all abused.

670
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 3: My dad, my mom, my brothers, and myself, you know,

671
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: all of us in some way we were abused, and

672
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: you know, and that didn't exist. It was just like

673
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: and now you're in this new life, and it was

674
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 3: so great. Luckily, my grandparents were able to help us

675
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 3: kind of get ourselves, my family on their feet, and

676
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 3: you know, and my grandma again was the matriarch, and

677
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 3: they had had the financial means to help us, and

678
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: not in a huge way, but like in a way

679
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 3: to just okay, here, hell's we'll help you, you know.

680
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 3: And a lot of families don't have that. A lot

681
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 3: of families don't have another like their family to be

682
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 3: like okay, yeah, we'll take you in and we're gonna

683
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 3: help you. Some families from these kinds of organizations are

684
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 3: completely cut off from their family and there isn't an option,

685
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 3: that isn't an option to go back to their family,

686
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 3: which is why a lot of these people end up

687
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 3: ultimately just in and dealing with the abuse and dealing

688
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 3: with what's going on, you know, having more children and

689
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: having more connection to the organization, you know. And that's

690
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: one of the things that the floaty fishing. A lot

691
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: of women would have multiple children with multiple people, and

692
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 3: so that creates more you know, confusion, connection and just.

693
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: Totally it's so multi layered.

694
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 2: Because you think about someone who's just in one abusive

695
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: relationship with an abusive husband or something if they're financially

696
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: beholden to that person. Like just that alone is so

697
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: hard to leave. But especially if it's your entire community

698
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: and you don't have a support system outside of that,

699
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: and you.

700
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: Have multiple kids with multiple people. I mean, I just

701
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: that's that.

702
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: It is amazing that your mom even like was able

703
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: to do that. I think that's like pretty incredible.

704
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 3: I know, and you know, and I think the hardest

705
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: thing is a lot of the women would end up

706
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 3: staying in because their children were separated from them and

707
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 3: the only way to get their children back is to

708
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 3: keep continuing and breaks my heart. So I met a

709
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 3: woman she is doing amazing work. She is Italian and

710
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: she was in the family and she's similar to my

711
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 3: mom in age and similar she has got a daughter

712
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 3: that's similar in my age and to other sons. So

713
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 3: it's like really interesting are the parallels. And she was

714
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 3: living in Argentina and then India and also the Philippines.

715
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 3: But when she I know, so weird. But a lot

716
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 3: of the families were in the same way. Either you

717
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: were in Asia and South America or from South America

718
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 3: you went to Europe and you know, Sweden, Germany, Italy.

719
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 3: That's where my dad met my stepmother and she was

720
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 3: living in Europe. Her family was chosen to go to Europe.

721
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: If nothing else, you're all very well traveled.

722
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 3: Yes, there's that. There is that, And I think that

723
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 3: is also something that I like about myself, you know,

724
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 3: because I feel like a child of the world, Like

725
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily subscribed to one place, because I have

726
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 3: lived everywhere, and I do see the world is this

727
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 3: huge but small place, you know, rather than a lot

728
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 3: I think a lot of Americans, because America is so big,

729
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 3: you know, we don't travel as much, and so a

730
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 3: lot of people are I think a little bit more

731
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 3: close minded here because of that totally. So I met

732
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 3: this woman, Christina, and she told me that she was

733
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 3: in a splinter group, so a lot of the teachings

734
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 3: she didn't like. But then there was another man who

735
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 3: was part of the family who ended up forming his

736
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,959
Speaker 3: own group, and they had separated her children from her,

737
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 3: so she stayed in. She had an aversion to a

738
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 3: lot of the things, but ended up staying in and

739
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: staying connected because of her children being separated from her,

740
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 3: and eventually they were reunited. But I mean years had

741
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 3: gone by, and you know, I think that's one of

742
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,479
Speaker 3: the things. You know. I find it really interesting that

743
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: it's called the family, but it was so something, you know,

744
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 3: it was so far removed from a family.

745
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: It breaks up the family. Like that's the opposite of

746
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: a family.

747
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 5: Right, right.

748
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: And this isn't the case for every family. This isn't

749
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: the case for everybody, but it is the case for

750
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 3: a lot of and especially when women are involved. A

751
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 3: lot of the women were and young girls were perceived

752
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 3: to be women when they were twelve thirteen, you know,

753
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: and so you could marry then. I remember I was

754
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 3: told I could change my name and he had a

755
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: husband when I was twelve, you know, gosh, and I

756
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 3: was just like okay, you know. And you know, like

757
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: as a child, you see that and you learn that

758
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 3: and you feel like, you know, you don't see that

759
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 3: that's wrong, you know. And I think that's really at

760
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: the heart of it, Like when you're so innocent and

761
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 3: you're being removed from society and from the education of

762
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 3: what's right right or you know, it is I don't

763
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 3: want to say normal, but just what is perceived to

764
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: be healthy, right, you know, I you know, and you

765
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 3: don't know that other side, you don't know the healthy

766
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: side of it, and you're like, oh, yeah, you can

767
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 3: marry them. You're twelve. That's like okay, Like you don't

768
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 3: know that that's wrong, you know.

769
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you don't know anything else, how would you

770
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: how would you know?

771
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, the issues that happen with these kinds of organizations

772
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 3: and the reality of a lot of people who are

773
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 3: still in or and don't know how to get out.

774
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: There isn't a support system waiting for them. There's a

775
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 3: uniqueness to India's story because her mom was there waiting

776
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 3: for with the FBI, with therapists, with cult experts, with

777
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 3: you know, a whole gamut of a team of people

778
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: that is unfortunately not reality. You know, that is like

779
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 3: a very unique situation that yes, it's amazing and I'm

780
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: you know, Katherine Oxenberg is an amazing woman for you know,

781
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 3: banding together all these people to bring down this organization.

782
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: But I mean that's just there's a reason why the

783
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 3: family's still around. It's because there isn't, you know, a

784
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 3: lot of attention. And yes, there's some celebrity people who've

785
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 3: been a part of it, but it's so vague, it's

786
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 3: so cryptic. It's so like, oh, they don't want to

787
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 3: talk about it, you know. And there's a little bit

788
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 3: of come out of you know, River Phoenix and his

789
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 3: abuse that happened while in the organization, but still it's

790
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 3: like it's just a snippet of an article. There's there

791
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 3: hasn't really been a deep dive into the family, you know.

792
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 3: I was talking to my mom last year and through

793
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: my exploration of going and doing my own deep dive

794
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 3: into my own self after having been a Nixium and

795
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 3: like having to look back at being in the family

796
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: and what that meant and how we didn't really have

797
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 3: the healing that I thought we really need did and

798
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 3: looking back, I'm like, oh my god, we did not

799
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 3: have any healing, you know. And I see, you know,

800
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 3: my brothers, and I see how much kind of trauma

801
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: we've had to carry with us and the PTSD that's happened,

802
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: and my mom goes, we don't have PTSD. That's that's

803
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 3: for people who've been victims of war and who are

804
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 3: soldiers and things like that, and I'm like, oh, okay, okay, okay, fine,

805
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 3: you know, and the conversation didn't end well, and then

806
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 3: we ended up talking the next day and my mom says, So,

807
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 3: I had a nightmare that I was back in the

808
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: family last night and that I didn't know why I

809
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,479
Speaker 3: was back there. And I'm thinking to myself, she's telling

810
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 3: me this and one PTSDSD, and I was like, Mom,

811
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 3: that is PTSD, you know, having flashbacks and nightmares that

812
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 3: you're back in an organization that you left, you know,

813
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 3: year ago. That shows that there is still some trauma there.

814
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 3: And that is PTSD. And my Mom's like, oh, like

815
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 3: you know, And so I think, wow, is this unraveling

816
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 3: of kind of exploring that we didn't get the healing.

817
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 3: And it just literally went to survival mode. And I

818
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 3: look back and I see in my life and it

819
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: is literally like surviving, surviving this, then surviving coming to

820
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 3: America and dealing with all of the craziness that America is,

821
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 3: you know, and how India is not in the Indian

822
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 3: people are so nice, so warm, so welcoming, and Americans

823
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 3: you know, are not.

824
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh wow, interesting, Like what was your experience of

825
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: Americans when you got here?

826
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 3: So rude, so mean, so judgmental. I mean, I'm a

827
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: little kid, you know, so horrible, you know, and it

828
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 3: was all about fitting in and all about being normal,

829
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 3: and I felt so not normal, you know, and I

830
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, So how can I be

831
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 3: normal today and not say something weird, you know, because

832
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: my experience wasn't like everybody else's and it still isn't,

833
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 3: you know, Like I don't consider you know, any really

834
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 3: any place really my home. I mean, La has now

835
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 3: been a long place I've lived, and but I've I've

836
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: moved around so much that I'm not really that type

837
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 3: of person that a lot of Americans go, oh, where

838
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 3: are you from? Oh I'm from here? Oh my god.

839
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I've.

840
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: Never had that experience where I would always be like, yeah,

841
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 3: I'm from a lot of places. I don't know they

842
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 3: And as an adult now, you know, obviously I have

843
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 3: a home, and you know, La is pretty much my

844
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 3: home base, but I don't necessarily feel from anywhere, you know,

845
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: my identity. You know that Americans really have to their place,

846
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 3: you know. Is it's It's interesting That's always been something

847
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 3: funny to me that we have to say to connect ourselves,

848
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 3: you know, which it makes sense, but you know, there's

849
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 3: a lot of things that I felt just an outsider.

850
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: It all goes back to identity, right, like we all

851
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 2: need something to latch onto, to feel like this is

852
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 2: who I am, and if we don't have other things,

853
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 2: it's the place we're from or or maybe it's the

854
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: group that we find that gives us that identity.

855
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: Our belief systems for sure.

856
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 5: Our sports teams.

857
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's a cult life in sports teams. I mean,

858
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 3: come on. I mean I dated a guy and he

859
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 3: every time this team lost, he would just be so depressed.

860
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I did not understand that.

861
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: I don't get it at all.

862
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, dude, it's Sunday. We got like eight hours

863
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: to do it. Now, I'm going to go and cry myself.

864
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, weirdo. I think there is a

865
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 3: lot of this searching to connect and searching to be

866
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 3: part of something. Religion is definitely one of them. And

867
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: I think the new age kind of self help group

868
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 3: bringing us to Nixium is another avenue for people to

869
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 3: connect and be part of something and not be part

870
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 3: of something. It's like a religious aspect, and for me

871
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: that was the draw from Nick or esp. It wasn't

872
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 3: tied to any kind of religious belief It was more

873
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 3: exploring your own beliefs and your own philosophy is behind something. Meanwhile,

874
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: learning the philosophy from them, but always like keeping your

875
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: truth right.

876
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 2: So it feels like a totally different kind of organization

877
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: from the one you grew up in. And that is

878
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: where the next chapter of your cult experience begins.

879
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: So then we my dad went back my mom. So

880
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 3: we're in Albuquerque, living there and surviving and living life.

881
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 3: And I'm twenty five, I think when I was introduced

882
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 3: to Nixium gsp.

883
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to leave it there for now. Stay

884
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 2: tuned for part two, either next week or the week after.

885
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: We haven't decided yet. Megan, what do you think though,

886
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: would you join the Family aka the Children of God?

887
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it would depend on who was

888
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 4: flirty fishing me. True, you know, they could maybe get

889
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 4: me with with hot enough mark, But other than that,

890
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,959
Speaker 4: I think once I learned the rules.

891
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 5: Of the group, i'd be out. Uh, it is.

892
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 2: Not for me, although there it is communal living, and

893
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 2: I think, no, I.

894
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 4: Know, there's the cool like gardens and you know, raising

895
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 4: your families together, which is I'm really into all of

896
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 4: that stuff, But then you know the underlying just guilt

897
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 4: and sin and all of the like sex, it's just

898
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 4: too much.

899
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, I mean neither. But who's to say,

900
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: you know, I always say no, I wouldn't. But I'm

901
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: only basing this on like what my particular interests are.

902
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: I think my particular vulnerabilities are anything pertaining to improving

903
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: myself or ambition, even like atheism.

904
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: Or like science.

905
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 2: But who knows, you know, Like I'm not trying to

906
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 2: say I wouldn't like I.

907
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: We are all susceptible. That's like the whole thesis of

908
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: this entire show.

909
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, the right person at the right time, Like,

910
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: you know, maybe I would join a weird Christian commune,

911
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: or maybe I would join a UFO cold or who knows.

912
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 4: Well, I don't see you particularly joining this one.

913
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean neither, but you never know. You never

914
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: stay tuned, stay tuned.

915
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 4: Well. On that note, we just want to tell you guys,

916
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 4: thanks for listening, and remember to follow your gut, watch

917
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 4: out for red flag, and never ever trust me Nike