WEBVTT - TechStuff Gets Salty 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.160 Brought to you by the two thousand twelve Toyota Camera. 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.840 It's ready. Are you hey there, tech stuff listeners, This 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.879 is Jonathan Strickland, and I wanted to talk to you 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.200 a little bit about something cool going on at how 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.600 stuff works right now. I know all of you guys 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.680 are really creative and you love technology. Well, now you 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.239 can show us what you're made of because Toyota is 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:22.880 sponsoring a new photo upload widget over at how stuff 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.560 works dot com. You can share your gadget ideas, modifications, hacks, 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.640 some great tech ideas. Show us what you're made of. 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.199 Let us know how creative you are. You can go 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.639 to www dot how stuff works dot com, slash upgrade 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.519 your tech and upload those photos. Now we want to 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.519 see what you got. Get in touch with technology with 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:54.400 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:56.920 and welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.360 and I am an editor at how stuff works dot com. 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.160 Sitting in for me, as is typical, is senior writer 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:07.640 Jonathan He there right, So, Chris, one of the big 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:12.200 issues facing the world today is access to clean, drinkable water, 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.720 and so we wanted to talk to someone who's an 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.959 expert in a particular form of processing water to make 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.440 something that isn't drinkable into drinkable water, and we have 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:27.280 with us from ge Eric Hansen. Eric, welcome to the 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.759 to the podcast. We're excited to have you here, and 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.399 we're going to talk a bit about desalination, which is 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.039 a process where we're removing things like salt and other 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:41.360 minerals from water so that you have clean drinking water 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:45.199 as an as a byproduct, really the other one being 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:49.920 the the salt, the salute. So we want to talk 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.120 a little bit about the process that you guys use 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.480 over at g the things that you're looking into, and um, 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.480 how that has changed over the years. So to really 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:05.640 start off, what what are the greatest benefits of desalination? UM? 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:10.920 A great question. You know, the world today bases you know, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:16.320 ever increasing challenges and stresses on water supplies. But you know, 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.320 the good news behind that is the Earth's surfaces water. 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.840 So even though less than one percent of that is 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.720 accessible as fresh water today, the rest of it is 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.480 is seawater, and we do have the technologies today to 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:35.680 turn that into usable water. So in fact, those technologies 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:39.040 have been around for a really long time. You know, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.520 even hundreds of years ago, people would boil water, capture 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:48.519 the steam from that water, and use the condensation from 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:53.000 that that steam as purified water. So the concepts of 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:58.440 of desalinating water using heat or thermal technologies, those aren't 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.880 new concepts. They've been around for a while. Desalination has 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:03.800 been going on for a long time, and even up 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:09.120 through the most of the nineties, thermal technologies were still 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.520 very prevalent, albeit a little bit more advanced than just 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.080 simply boiling water, but the concepts were still the same, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.880 heating of the water, capturing the steam, and condensing it. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:27.720 In the in the nineties, different technologies started being applied. UH. 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.560 Instead of heating up the water and boiling it, what 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:35.360 we started doing was applying membranes, special kinds of of 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.720 very advanced filters. UH. These membranes are able to remove 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.360 the salts from the water UH with much less energy. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.080 It takes a lot of energy to boil water, so 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.360 using membrane technologies, we've been able to reduce the amount 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.560 of energy it takes to remove the salt from water. 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.720 And over the last twenty years there have been just 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.119 a lot of advances in that in that field, which 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.960 I'm sure we'll go into a little bit more in 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:06.000 our conversation. Sure, making the cost of the salinating water 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.520 come down, you know, every year, right, And so you're 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.920 talking about these these semi permeable membranes. Essentially we're looking 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:19.159 at a process of reverse osmosis really um forcing the 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:24.960 using pressure essentially to force water that has various minerals 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.719 and salt in it through this membrane. The membrane separates 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:33.080 out the minerals the salts, and the water passes through. Normally, 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:38.440 when you have a membrane between a solute and a solvent, 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.200 the solvent is going to pass through the membrane until 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:45.400 there's a an equilibrium there and osmosis pressure is osmotic 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.200 pressure is built up. So in this case, we're actually 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.719 applying energy on one side so that we get water 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:53.840 on one end of the membrane and everything else is 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.599 on the other. Is that that sort of a bird's 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.159 eye view of what that technology is all about. Yeah, 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.320 you described it very well. You know. One of the 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.680 biggest difference between membrane filtration and the types of filtration 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.600 that most people are familiar with is when most people 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.520 think of a filter, they imagine a barrier of some 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:17.080 kind with one stream of water flowing into it, things 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.839 being removed by that barrier, and then one stream of 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.279 water flowing out the other side, and then after a 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:23.920 while you have to do something to get all this 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.880 stuff you've removed off that barrier. So membrane technology doesn't 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.839 exactly work that way. You still have a barrier and 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:35.239 it's the membrane, but in membrane technology, the feed stream 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.599 is actually flowing across the membrane, so you have one 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.960 stream in, but then you're applying pressure, so some waters 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.640 making it through the membrane, and that's the purified water 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.760 without much salt in it, and all the salt, all 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.080 the salt is staying on the other side of the membrane. 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.880 So in membrane technology, instead of one stream in and 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.000 one stream out, you actually have one stream in but 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:00.880 two streams out purified the saltier stream, so that salt 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.160 here stream the brine. I know that that has caused 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.080 some problems in the past, simply because Brian, you know, 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.680 what do you do with that after you've gone through 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:14.480 the desalination process? Now, Brian, because it has this concentrated 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.560 amount of salts and minerals, and it's actually denser than 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:22.200 sea water. So if you were to simply dump that 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.239 Brian into the sea, then it would it would sink 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.279 to the bottom of the sea floor where it could 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:32.320 potentially cause damage depending upon the environment that you're in. Uh, 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.240 can you talk a little bit about some of the 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.160 approaches to to take care of that problem. I know 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.080 there's some about mixing the brian in with other water 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.440 that's going to be running into the sea, so it 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:48.440 it dilutes it. So I mean, if you step back 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:54.839 and look at the desalination process, you know from from feet, uh, 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.359 it can simply be considered really part of the normal 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:03.440 water cycle, the hydrological cycle. So yes, there's water with 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.400 more salt going back into the ocean, but the water 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:11.000 that's purified and it is then used ultimately that goes 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.600 back into the ocean as well, whether it comes through 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.680 municipal wastewater and sanitary sewers and it's treated you know 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.400 in many other ways. You know that water all does 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.320 essentially return to the hydrological cycle at some point. So 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.400 you know, from a high level, the mass balance is fine. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.840 The oceans aren't going to get saltier because of this 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.200 because we are returning the purified water back to the 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.520 oceans at some point as well. So really the the 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.640 more immediate concern is just that very point at which 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:46.320 you're introducing the brine back into the ocean, and depending 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.680 on the characteristics of the seabed and what's living in 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:54.840 that area, UH, sometimes there are special considerations that are taken. UH. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:56.840 And you know, there are many different ways you can 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.480 return the brine back into the ocean. You can just 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.720 have a pipe that puts it right into the ocean. 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:08.560 You can create an elaborate grid of pipes underneath the 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.760 seabed to uh, to blend it a little bit better. 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.000 There's a number of different methods and UH, even though 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.880 the salination may seem like a niche to some people, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.880 there are actually quite a few specialties within it. And UH, 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.400 you know, really thinking through how the brine is going 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.440 back into the ocean and how it's going to affect 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.800 marine life is uh is quite a science in itself. 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.000 But you know, there's been a ton of progress on 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.960 that really in just the last ten years. And you know, 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.880 I think in nearly all cases we're now able to 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.840 come up with with special schemes and the right technology 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:47.640 to blend U without harming marine life. Fantastic. Uh. Well, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.880 moving on to another question, what what's the greatest barrier 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:57.400 to adoption of desalination? I mean, why, uh, what's keeping 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.720 this technology from being more widespread it and used in 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.360 more areas of the world. You know, I think there 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.280 are you know, you could probably classify it into two 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.880 different barriers. One of one of them is, uh is 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:14.440 more perception. Uh. You know, there are some areas where 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.880 the public still isn't really that on board with it yet, 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.760 just for you know, things they've read in the news 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.120 and their own ideas about it. Other parts of the 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:28.400 world are doing this uh often, you know, in the 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.160 Middle East or in Southeast Asia. You find de cell 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.160 plants all over the place. They have largely solved all 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.320 the environmental issues that people should be worried about. Um. 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.800 You know, but some people are slower to adapt than others, 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.319 and it takes a while to to come to terms 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.920 with with some of that mentally. UM. So that you know, 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.320 that's a harder problem to solve. The easier problems to 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.120 solve really are are the energy problems. Because when you 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.839 do desalination, it isn't the cheapest way to get water. 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.400 If there's other uh subs lies of water available to 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.559 you UH that don't have so much salt in them, 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:08.319 they're most likely going to be less expensive than desalination. 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.880 So today people are doing desalination really only in areas 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.280 where they don't have a lot of other alternatives, where 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.400 they're in a water scarce area and they simply need 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:21.240 to do it. So driving down the energy cost is 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.640 really the primary goal and desalination, and it has been 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.360 for the last twenty years, and there have been a 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:33.000 lot of different improvements over the last really fifteen years 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.880 that have really made progress in driving that down UH, 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.200 and they're in a number of different areas. Obviously, the 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.319 amount of energy that you need to drive the salt 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.040 out of the water is a big deal, and you 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.560 can lower that through advances in the membrane chemistry, so 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.319 actually improving the membranes. You can do it through advances 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.640 in the efficiencies of pumps UH, and you can also 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.440 do it through advances in energy recovery devices. So there's 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.000 a you know a number of different areas that people 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.560 are working on. And then in addition to that, you know, 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.520 simply the operation of these plants. You know, it requires 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.080 a the amount of manpower just to keep these things running. 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.720 So we've also been making a lot of improvements and 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.880 innovations in the pre treatment to these plants. So as 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.280 as the pre treatment to the water gets better, they're 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.120 lower operating costs as well. So lots of different levers 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.439 to pull in order to lower the operating costs. You know, 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:31.960 I was wondering a little bit about the equipment itself. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.959 I mean, the process itself seems pretty uh, pretty straightforward, 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.120 but um, you know, is the is the equipment itself large? 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:40.880 Does it take up a lot of space or or 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.679 does it require a lot of high pressure to make 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.319 it work? Yeah, that two different things. In terms of size. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.480 It doesn't take up really any more space than a 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.240 traditional water treatment plant for the same capacity would. But 0:11:55.600 --> 0:12:00.160 the big difference is pressure. The more salt that have 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.400 dissolved in any in any given amount of water, the 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:07.720 higher the osmotic pressure of that water, something Jonathan referred 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.920 to in his earlier explanation. So the more salt, higher 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.440 the osmotic pressure, the more pressure you need to apply 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.000 to the water to drive the salt out of it. 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.600 So take for example, the middle East, in the Gulf, 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.880 in the Middle East, that's really some of the saltiest 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.640 water in the world. So on on detail plants, they're 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:35.920 we're running them as high as eight p s i, 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.560 which is pretty high pressure. Uh. In other parts of 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.960 the world, like say the Caribbean, the water is a 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.800 little less salty, still absolutely seawater, but it's not quite 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.560 as stalene as as the Middle East. So there you 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.319 because it has slightly less salt, you can use slightly 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:58.800 less less pressure. Now, are these plants often um sort 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.040 of piggybacked onto other plants like power generation. That was 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.880 wondering if there was a lot of cogeneration going on 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:09.320 with desalination plants. Yeah, that's a great question. Uh. And 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.559 this is actually one of the reasons that g is 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.640 is uh, you know, so active in this market. Uh. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.320 You know, there's just an inex Uh. There's a there's 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:23.720 a obvious tie between energy and water. So to produce energy, 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.960 you know, power plants need water to produce energy. Infect 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.000 almost ten percent of all global water withdrawals go to 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.520 the production of water, so that's a pretty significant amount. Uh. 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.640 And then the reverse of that is to desalinate water, 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.720 you need energy to do it. So power plants and 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:46.120 deesel plants are are are very linked. In the past, 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.600 when the technologies were more thermal based, that was another 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:55.319 advantage of tying the plants together because many power plants, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.600 especially power plants in the past, had a lot of 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.520 waste heat, so they could use some of that heat 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:04.960 uh for the thermal desalination. Power Plants today are much 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.680 more efficient, so there isn't so much waste heat coming 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.920 from them. Uh. And the membrane technologies come to a 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.880 point where really that's the propolan technology for desalination. So 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.040 we're not seeing them tied together as much anymore because 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.760 of waste heat from the power plant, but we are 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.520 seeing them tied together simply because the power plant needs 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:28.480 water uh and the decail plant needs power. Excellent, So 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.000 what is GE doing to make desalination more feasible to 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.600 address water scarcity issues? So we're working in a number 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.520 of different areas. We've worked a lot in the past 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.440 on the membranes and uh, you know, there are really 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.480 some very high quality membranes now used in desalination. Uh. 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.880 They're not an entitlement yet. There are still some games 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.160 to be made there. UM. But they're they're getting close. 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.560 The membranes are very efficient today. UM pre treatment is 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.160 very important. So when when we talk about membranes and 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.440 how they take this all out of water, they're great 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.400 at taking the salt out of water, but they aren't 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.360 great at taking suspended solids out of water. So you 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.760 don't want to put salt or sticks or stones or 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.320 anything like that into a membrane. That's bad for it. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.880 So pretty much every membrane plant in the world has 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.120 some kind of pre treatment in front of it to 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.280 take the suspended solids out before it gets to the membranes. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.080 UH and G has been leading in this area as well. 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:29.880 We have some terrific advanced prefiltration another type of membrane 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:34.240 called an ultrafiltration membrane, and it it provides really superior 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.680 UH suspended solids removal, so that the water that gets 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.480 to the the reverse us most of the membranes is 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.040 as clean as it can be, still salty, but it's 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.320 had everything else removed and that makes the life of 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.880 those membranes lasts a lot longer, which in turn lowards 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.800 the overall cost of ownership UM. Then the other pieces 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.360 of the pumping side there are a lot of different 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.680 kinds of pumps in the marketplace. The most fishing types 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:05.080 of pumps are positive displacement pumps. If you think of 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.200 pumping water, you can imagine you have a fixed geography 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.760 fixed geometry of water. The most efficient way to raise 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.000 the pressure of it is just to push on it 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:19.000 um and that works today in in relatively small sizes, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:23.120 but as plants get larger and larger, uh, there aren't 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.920 so many good positive displacement pumps. So instead what people 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.080 use their centrifugal pumps. So that's more like spinning the water. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.840 The water that gets thrown to the outside has a 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:38.880 higher pressure. So you know, we've been working developing a 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.720 new pump which is a positive displacement style pump, but 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.880 it's much larger than other positive displacement style pumps on 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.920 the marketplace. That's a pretty new product for us, but 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.080 we expect that within the next year we're gonna start 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.320 seeing more of more of that pump out in de 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.400 cel plant and that's going to knock as much as 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:01.600 another ten percent of the energy off, so that when 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.959 we get that fully commercialized, not in the marketplace, it's 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.480 gonna lower the electrical costs by about ten percent more, 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.960 which is really significant when you're talking about, you know, 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.680 the cost of desalination. Sure. So, so that's where it 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.400 leads into what do you see as the future of desalination? 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.240 Where do you see us going in another few years, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.080 like another decade or two decades. Yeah, that's a great 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.320 question and a hard question because there are many many 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.040 technologies out there today. Uh, you know, I I think 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:37.199 most people in the industry, myself included, really see reverse 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:42.960 osmosis as continuing to be the most prevalent technology for 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:47.199 at least the next five or seven or ten years. Um. 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.040 It's certainly possible that some other technologies could could come along, 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.639 and you know, honestly, if there are other technologies that 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.320 will dramatically lower the cost of desalination, that would be 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.960 great for the planet. Um. But I I you know, 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:00.920 I think over the next five or seven years, what 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.359 we're going to see is people figuring out how to 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:09.720 link the cell plants more to other renewables. So already 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.719 we're starting to see people thinking about how do you 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.520 combine a de cell plant with wind turbines and a 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.040 wind farm, or how do you combine a de cil 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.800 plant with a solar farm. You know, it turns out 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.840 that a lot of places in the world, the neat desalination, 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.159 places that are water scarce, are also places that have 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.440 quite a bit of sun. So there there's some nice 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.720 natural links between you know, combining solar with de cell. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.080 In some ways, there's also challenges because you know, in 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.200 addition to having on his sun, you know, some of 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.600 these places also have a lot of sand and it's dusty, 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.840 and and dust and solar don't don't always pair so well, 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.600 but dust coats the panels and may become less efficient. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.000 But you know, now we're talking about some pretty um 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.520 discreete challenges. You know, people are doing us now, they're learning, 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.879 they're getting better at it. There's not a lot of 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.160 solar plus D cell or wind plus D cell out 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.280 there today, but I think in the next five to 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.200 ten years we're probably gonna start to see a lot 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.520 more about Yeah, it's really exciting and to give our 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.080 listeners an idea of the impact that these sort of 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:22.680 technologies have made so far. Uh, it wasn't that long 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:27.920 ago that the estimated population that could not get access 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:32.000 to clean water was around twenty but according to the 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.000 World Health Organization, they had a two thousand twelve report 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.080 which took numbers from two and took a look at that. Uh, 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.080 they said that it's is still a massive problem. Still 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.919 seven million people lack access to safe drinking water, according 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.760 to this report, and that's a you know, that's a 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:53.440 sobering number. But the silver lining here is that that's 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.879 that's half of what it was before, so that the 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:00.040 numbers of people who are getting access to safe and 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:02.879 water there on the rise, which I mean, that's obviously 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.280 the way we want to see this trend go. So 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.960 it's exciting to see this sort of technology combined with 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:13.439 the efforts of other organizations out there dedicated to making 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.720 sure that that people across the world get access to 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:20.000 this water. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. You know, one 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.920 of the statistics that that I often hear is that 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.480 today it's one and every six people today doesn't have 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.720 access to clean water, which is, as you said, really 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:35.240 a sobering number. Um. You know, I think there's an 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:39.639 interesting combination here where you read a lot about this today. 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.200 You know, ten years ago you didn't generally see water 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.440 articles in mainstream media, and today, you know, every week 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:50.879 you're going to see an article in mainstream media talking 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.640 about water scarcity, and you know, it is a serious 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:58.920 problem and it is alarming. But the plus side of 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:05.400 this publicity is that they're more entrepreneurs, more large companies 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.880 like GE, just more people out there starting to think 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.240 about what are some possible solutions, uh, And there's lots 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.320 of them. You know. The salination is a great example 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.879 of ways that we can solve water scarcity. Water reuse 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.520 is another great example of ways that we can solve 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.760 water scarcity. Water reuse is just taking water that's already 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:28.080 been used for one purpose, uh, and treating it and 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.600 cleaning it up and finding a way to use it 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.280 for another purpose. So, you know, I think all the 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:38.080 current press that we hear about water scarcity is actually 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.440 helping to feed a pipeline of new innovations and new 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.720 ideas that will actually help solve the problem in the 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:49.639 long rust. Fantastic, Eric, Uh. That that's a great look 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.720 at the desalination process and what g E is doing 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.280 to to really push this technology forward. And we really 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.959 appreciate you coming on the show and talking with us. 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:03.920 It's been a really educational experience for me and especially 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:09.240 as as as liberal arts majors whose background and engineering 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.200 is saying, Wow, that's cool. Uh, it's really great to 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.359 get people like you on our show to talk about 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.040 this and and give our listeners this uh this sort 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.119 of Uh look, is there anything else you would like 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.480 to say before we wrap up? Well, you know, Jonathan Chris, 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.520 I'd just like to say thanks, thanks for having me 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.560 on the show. Um. You know, at GE, we're doing 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.960 a lot of really interesting and innovative things to solve 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.119 the very problems that we were just talking about for 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:36.639 the last half hour. Uh. You know, one of the 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:40.040 great things about being in this kind of business is 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:43.000 when you come up with innovations, you can actually see 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.000 that they're helping people. Uh. So you know, it's it's 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:49.280 a rewarding business to be and GEE is very committed 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:53.280 to it. We're investing a lot and solving problems today 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.840 and in the future and and uh, you know, I 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:58.880 love talking about it and I'm really excited about where 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.320 this can all go over the next Thank you so much. 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:05.919 Thank you, Eric, and and uh, We're always glad to 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:09.159 have people who advocate that sort of mindset to to 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:14.040 really get people interested in science, technology, engineering. These are 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:17.600 areas that are they're they're leading the way to the 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.280 future of what our world is going to be. And uh, 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.680 you know, if we have students out there listening, feel 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:25.880 free to let us know. Tell us what you are 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.760 interested in, let us know what what areas we should 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.240 cover in our future podcasts. You can let us know 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.160 by sending us an email that addresses tech Stuff at 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:37.960 Discovery dot com, or drop us a line on Facebook 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:39.919