WEBVTT - Stretched To Their Limits: Rock 'Em Socks 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:04.040 The typical college student is stressed about what to major in, 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:06.680 how they'll do on midterms, and whether they'll land that 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.720 competitive internship. But as a college junior, Rob Starkman was 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:15.000 facing a totally different animal. A Fortune five hundred company 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:16.319 was threatening to sue him. 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.720 I just remember getting that lawsuit, my heart dropping, and 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.680 so that was a major shock to the system. There's 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:24.920 a lot of sleepless nights, Like I was terrified. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:27.960 Rob believed that the company had sent the letter out 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.639 to a few other small businesses and that many of 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.560 them had folded under the pressure. But he wasn't going 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:34.760 to back down so easily. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:36.519 I was not doing that. Like, I had way too 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:38.519 many chips in this, and I didn't want to give up. 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.320 I'm like this twenty two year old kid, like going 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:43.960 up against one of the biggest companies in the world. 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:52.560 Welcome to The Unshakables from Chase for Business and Ruby 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.920 Studio from My Heart Media. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:57.160 Chase for Business. 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.440 And I'm Tanya Nebo, a lawyer and consultant for business own. 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.720 On the Unshakables, we're sharing the daring stories of small 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.280 business owners facing their crisis points and telling the stories 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:08.760 of how they got through it. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:11.640 Okay, Ben, listen, I think you're really going to like 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.919 this one. It really has it all. Lawsuits, attempted coups, explosions, 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:18.840 and that's just the half of it. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:20.880 Sounds dangerous and intriguing. 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:30.280 Let's hear it on today's episode Rockham Socks from Orlando, Florida. 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.600 Rob Starkman has always been a bit of a late bloomer. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.560 So I was six foot three leaving my freshman year 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.240 of college, and then I entered my sophomore year of 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.560 college six foot ten, so like literally over one summer, 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.240 like all of my clothes didn't fit, all my shoes 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.960 were out of style. It was very fast and furious. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.600 I guess I actually just started shaving like two years ago, 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.000 so we're still growing here. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.440 In two thousand and eight, he was a sophomore at 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.440 the University of Central Florida and not totally sure what 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.680 he wanted to do with his life. He tried out 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:03.080 several different majors, but nothing really stuck. What did stick 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.480 was his love for basketball, not that he had much 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:07.320 of a choice. 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.840 I would say, like my heartbeat is a basketball dribble, 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.400 because my whole family is involved in sports some way, somehow. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.120 My dad coach college basketball for twenty plus years. My 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:18.639 sister played in college. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.360 During his freshman year, he started working for the men's 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.079 basketball team as a student manager. He would film and 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.320 at a highlight reels, help out during practice, and manage 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.640 the team's equipment. But there was a problem with UCFS gear. 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:35.280 They had recently changed suppliers and now only had generic jerseys, shorts, 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.120 and socks available for the players. So Rob took things 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:39.080 into his own hands. 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:43.400 I remember literally taking track jackets so like an embroidery 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.440 shop that was by a chicken coop in this little 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.840 podunk town right next to us, because we just needed 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.320 someone to put UCF on our merchandise. 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.120 All the generic gear was in black and white, but 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.840 UCF's colors were black and gold. So Rob took matters 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:58.160 into his own hands. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.040 So I took it back to my mom's house and 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.800 in her kitchen sing dip dyed the black and white 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.160 sox to then come out and be black and gold. 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.639 And so I'm like wearing socks that are accustomed to 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.480 our school. Nobody else has them. They don't sell them 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.000 on the market. That's where some of the players on 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:17.840 the team wanted to know where I got him. From there, 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:19.880 it kind of saw a little bit of an opportunity 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:21.919 to fill a hole in the market. I guess. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.040 Soon Rob was dip dying black and gold socks in 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.160 his dorm room for all the players on the team, 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.320 and everyone who saw them wanted to buy their own pair. 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:35.760 My entire dorman became this like incredibly intricate operation filled 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.200 with hot water and rit dip dye that I was 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.480 going to Michael's and Joe and Fabrics all around Orlando 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:41.960 to get. 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.680 Now, to meet the number of orders he was getting, 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.720 Rob had to buy blank socks in bulk. And by 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.240 the time he hit his junior year, he was ready 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.200 to grow beyond campus. So he put a pair of 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:54.400 socks for sale online. 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:56.080 I put a pair of socks up on eBay, and 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.640 I'm telling you, within five to fifteen minutes it sold, 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.440 and it was you know, Australia, and then just from 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.720 there it started to take off. It was probably like 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:06.320 three to four weeks in where I was like, I'm 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.120 going all in on this. I'm going to ride this 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:09.280 until the wheels fall off. 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.520 Soon he decided his business needed a proper name, so. 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.839 I sat down in my dorm room and started writing 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.600 ideas down for what the brand name should be. And 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.680 it was like five or six names in before Rockham hit. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.400 The rock is a nickname for a basketball, to Rockham 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.240 means to wear something, and so Rockham Socks was just 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.080 like absolutely perfect, and I was like, that's it. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.240 By just two weeks in, Rockham Socks was selling one 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.920 hundred pairs a day, faster than he could even make them. 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.520 In college became a bit of an afterthought. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.239 I stopped going to basically every single class that I had, 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.000 and my second semester in junior year, I basically failed everything. 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.080 Anything that wasn't related to Rockham Socks was over for Rob. 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.239 He spent all day and night dying and packaging socks 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:56.839 for the store. 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.200 It was like sixteen to eighteen hours a day over 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.760 a stove making sure water's hot, pouring in the die. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:08.840 It was just NonStop, like steam everywhere, die stains all 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.359 over the counter, and I remember having gone so hard 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.560 on the stove that I actually blew up two of 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:17.480 them in my apartment complex. 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.760 Tanya, I have to say it, Rob sounds like the 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.360 worst roommate ever, Like could you live with this guy. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.560 You mean, the guy who takes over the kitchen is 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.240 dying socks all over the place, blows up the place twice, 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:29.720 that guy Ben I. 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.039 Know, yeah, I think not. 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:33.039 So. 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.520 Rob's doing hundreds of sales only a couple of weeks 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.400 into the business, and at this point he's just sewing 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.080 on eBay. I mean, how's he going to keep growing 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:39.680 this business? 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.080 Okay? So what he does is he actually moves his 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.279 business from eBay to his own website, and then he 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:49.520 started making socks in every imaginable like color combination. But 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:51.600 yet he's still the only employee. 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.039 I'm like doing customer service, I'm doing shipping, I'm doing production, 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.200 I'm doing procurement. And it was just like NonStop. You know, 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.240 I'm trying to build this as if it's a much 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:01.520 bigger brand than it actually is. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.560 Even though Rob was all in on Rockham Socks, there 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.200 was one thing he didn't give up. He was still 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.960 working for the men's basketball team. In the weeks leading 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.640 up to Black Friday, he was hardcore focused on his 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.320 business and prepping for a rush of sales, but he 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.880 still maintained his obligations to the team. He even worked 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.679 at a basketball tournament in the Bahamas with the team 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:22.960 on Thanksgiving. 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.920 We had made a ton of socks beforehand. We had 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.400 gotten all of our socials ready and like we had 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.719 just blown out of sales. That Black Friday night. 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.160 Rockham Socks had sold a thousand pairs in just one night. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.640 I knew that this was a fork in the road moment. 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.080 It was like first year. I'm like, I'm twenty one. 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:42.440 I'm like, jeez, we did like a quarter of a 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.720 million dollars in business. I was loving just the eighteen 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.800 hour days of hustling and building a brand, and I 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:50.599 knew that that was the last time I were stepped 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.760 foot in a classroom. 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:55.760 Rob knew that he wanted to drop out of school 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:57.919 to pursue Rock Them full time. So we made a 0:06:57.920 --> 0:06:59.240 plan for how to tell his mom. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.080 Going to take my mom out for breakfast and I'm 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.880 going to take her to an outside restaurant so that 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.600 she won't cry in front of everybody. And I just 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.400 told her. I was like, hey, ma, got this opportunity, 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.040 I'm going to see it through. And she goes, You're 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.560 dropping out of school and I was like I am, Yeah, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.880 I am, And She's just like I'm so disappointed in you. 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.600 Rob's parents didn't talk to him for the next four months. 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.520 But by this point he had other problems. Copycat brands 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.560 had started popping up and selling the same product. He 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.640 knew he'd have to differentiate Rock them to survive, and 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.240 he knew just how he'd do it. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.600 I found out about how you can customize like T shirts, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.560 and so there's a process by which you can print 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.200 out an image and then transfer it via heat onto 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.080 a T shirt. And I was like, nobody's ever done 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:48.840 this with socks before, so let's like try it out 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:49.320 with socks. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.480 Rob bought the image transfer machine and was now able 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:54.240 to design all types of socks. 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:58.200 From there, we were able to expand beyond just dip 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.160 dye colors now into actual designs onto socks. So we'd 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:04.880 be able to go from instead of black and red, 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.360 we might be able to put camouflage black and red 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:08.440 with a logo on it. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.040 Rockham Socks had another stroke of good fortune in twenty twelve. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:16.640 It was sneaker Mania. Streetwear had crossed over into the mainstream, 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.400 helped along why celebrities with shoe lines like Lebron James 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.320 and Kobe Bryant. Rockham started making socks to match each 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.120 highly anticipated sneaker release, and. 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:31.720 That became so popular in the sneaker industry that we 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.679 were on top of that world for two to three years. 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.920 We'd go to all the conventions, people would be wearing 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.320 our socks with their sneakers, and so all these kind 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.280 of trends are converging at the exact perfect time that 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:44.680 we're building this brand. 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.640 But it was at that moment that Rob's luck ran out. 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.440 That's where we get the big old letter saying that 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.760 we're doing trademark infringement, and so that was a major 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:57.319 shock to the system. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.760 Rob had been using blank white sox made by a 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.320 popular athletic brand from the start, but now this company 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.560 was threatening to sue rock them if they didn't stop 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.559 selling them. The company claimed that Rockham was selling their 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.920 socks as if they were designed and officially licensed by 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:12.680 the big brand. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.720 At that time, there was a ton of like little 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.200 copycat brands, and I would have to assume that they 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.040 all got the same letter, because as soon as we 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:26.920 got that, the competition stopped posting, they cut their websites out, 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.280 they took their ball and went home. I was not 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.160 doing that. I had way too many chips in this, 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:32.360 and I didn't want to give up. 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.880 Rob found a lawyer to represent the company and respond 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:39.200 to the letter. He was bleeding cash. It cost him 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.400 fifty thousand dollars in fees just to retain the lawyer. 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.080 I'm like, this twenty two year old kid, like going 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.000 up against one of the biggest companies in the world. 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.200 His lawyer put together an argument asserting that customization is 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.000 not illegal. Fortunately for Rockham, there was already a case 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.640 precedent involving a well known brand that had sued a 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.760 customer for the same thing, and that big brand had 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:03.480 lost the case. 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.360 We use that case study, and I believe they prevailed 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.760 in saying the customization of an existing product that they 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.040 bought at retail is not illegal. You can resell that 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.920 as a service. And that is literally the thing that 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.120 saved us. And I just remember the sigh of relief 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.040 after like two months of not having received any other letters, 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:21.680 that I felt like we were finally in the clear. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.719 There was such a David Versus Goliath moment that it 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:25.600 doesn't even feel real. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.320 At this point, Rob could now direct all of his 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.400 attention back to building Rockham socks. But in early twenty thirteen, 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.560 Rob realized that something about the blank socks he was 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.000 using had changed. The DIPDI didn't develop the same way, 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.680 and the designs and collars wouldn't transfer properly. It exposed 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.880 a real vulnerability in his business. 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.240 I remember coming to this realization that like I'm building 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.400 my house on someone else's land. To this day, like 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.080 it's so vivid that I remember having this phone call 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.480 of like making the decision that we're going to stop 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.400 utilizing someone else's product and develop our own, or else 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:02.920 we're eventually going to die. 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:05.160 So Rob and a small team worked with a sourcing 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:07.240 company in New York to come up with the perfect 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:12.040 prototype for a sock. Four months later, they'd perfected it. 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.240 It was a better product with much better margins. Rockham 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:19.199 socks continued to grow their reputation, especially in basketball. By 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:23.160 Christmas of twenty fifteen, they had licenses with six colleges 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.760 and could use their names, logos, and callers on Rockham socks. 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.480 That just became very, very popular, Like we put a 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.319 mascot on a sock, just logos and crazy colors, and 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.160 it was a different type of product that fans had 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.520 never seen before that really opened up our aperture of 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.000 what you can do as a business, and from there 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.240 it was a dogfight to go and get every single 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:42.960 other school. 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.280 Rob began to travel around the country meeting with schools. 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:52.400 After landing licensing deals across the NCAA, Rob decided it 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.400 was time for Rockham Socks to break into entertainment, and 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.720 he knew just where to start. The WWE. Rob had 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:04.320 landed a meeting with their licensing director. A longtime WWE fan, 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.400 he had been to a WWE match in middle school 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.040 and happened to be filmed during it. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:14.280 I had purchased the WWE streaming network and paused it 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.480 when I knew that. The cameraman went to me with 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.880 a big old sign and I was like, this is 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:23.439 me and I am a wrestling fan. You will never 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.439 work with someone who is as passionate as I am 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:28.479 about wrestling. 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.120 Robin his colleagues had a simple strategy for picking out 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.960 licenses to pursue. Stick to what you know. 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:41.080 I think it's all about authenticity. We are huge fans 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.160 of these licenses that we work with. It's so natural 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.680 for us to say, like, hey, we know the fan, 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:48.840 we know product that doesn't exist out there and we 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.040 can expand your market, and we are going to treat 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.040 it like the absolute biggest thing in our own lives. 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.360 By the end of twenty nineteen, Rockham Sox had licensing 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:02.160 deals with MLS, WWE and Nickelodeon. They were growing and 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.080 growing fast. He decided to hire a friend with the 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:07.920 background and operations who could help scale the company. 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.840 He was very instrumental in trying to scale the business, 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.640 like hiring a lot of people at the same time. 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.040 There's like a two factions of the business happening and 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.240 splitting off the original people that I started in my 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.840 house with and like was with from the beginning, and 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.839 then like all these new people that this guy brought 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.200 on and hired and led by him, and I just 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.280 felt the business getting out of my hands and getting 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:28.760 away from me. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.280 It was soon clear that Rob had hired the wrong 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:32.440 person for the job. 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.439 It was always such a challenge to manage this man. 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.520 He was very petulant, he was very emotional, and he 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.080 would storm out of the office when any sort of 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:44.360 argument would happen. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.480 The employee's behavior quickly took a toll on Rob and 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:48.199 his colleagues. 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.480 I was ready to give up the business. I was 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.000 ready to like just completely give up. It was like 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.920 a week before Christmas time that year, and I called 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.560 my mom and I'm like, I don't want to do 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:01.120 this anymore. 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.160 Around this time, Rob got a call from the vice 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.880 president of Rockham Socks, his longtime friend Steve. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.040 Steve calls me and he's like, this guy started another 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:15.320 business and it's a sock business. My heart dropped. And 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.679 not only was it one guy the founder of it, 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.280 but as the co founder was our head artist. 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.240 From there, things only got worse. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.880 We have the business name, they like started a Facebook page, 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.240 and we see the people that are following it. It's 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:35.000 like eight of our employees. We like basically devised this 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:39.840 plan to like completely purge everybody the day we got 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.640 back from the office, and so we let go of 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.120 eighty percent of our staff. 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.480 Rob later found out that the head of operations had 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.880 been spreading lies to the team so that he could 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.600 poach employees from the company over to his own. 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.480 I just turned twenty seven, and at the time that 0:14:58.640 --> 0:14:59.840 was like the worst thing that ever happened in my 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:03.200 life life, like backstabbed by close people that I thought 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.360 I was giving opportunities to. Thought we were working on 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.720 great things with I felt disrespected, My trust was violated, 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.440 and from there I was looking around every corner and 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.240 there was like months of me just lacking complete and 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:17.160 utter confidence. 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.240 Rob was gutted, but over time he started to take 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.000 responsibility for what had happened. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.800 Now, looking back, I could clearly say that without that, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.320 the business would not be where it is today, because 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:36.800 I look back on that moment and I'm like, I 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.120 was so immature, twenty six years old trying to oversee 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.600 twenty people. I was so immature in coming across as 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.920 putting myself first before the business and before a team, 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:47.960 or not taking things as seriously as I should have, 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.680 and like leadership wasn't even in my wheelhouse. And so 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.840 after that, like having to look back and stomach the 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.080 fact that you are absolutely the reason why this happened 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.080 to you, that was tough. There was like a complete 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.720 shot across the bout for an ego, and it completely 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.000 brought me down to earth. And from there on, one 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.160 hundred percent of my focus was put into being the 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:09.240 best leader that I could be. 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.800 Having to take stock also forced Rob to grow and 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:14.920 to change for the better. He got himself in the 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.760 company back on its feet, and thanks to a new 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.520 proprietary software, Rockham was now able to make products quickly 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.520 and on demand. At the same time. 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.840 Disney Plus launches Star Wars the Mandalorian and Grogu becomes 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.400 like a thing around the world and like it instantly 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:32.120 catches fire. 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.440 Disneynew Grogu would be a hit, and they were right. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.680 As soon as it launches, people are like clamoring for 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:40.360 this product. 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:45.680 Most manufacturers needed significant lead time, not weeks but months 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.640 to make their products, but thanks to their new software, 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.600 Rockem could produce large quantities quickly. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.040 And I remember going to the airport with nothing but 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.560 five hundred pairs of Grogu socks in a Duffel bag. 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.000 Get to the partner's facility in Anaheim, which is right 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.600 around the block from Disneyland. I'm getting in his car 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.240 and we get my Duffel bag out of the sky's 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.800 car and I'm wheeling it into the back of a 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.520 store and I'm like a child, you know, I'm like 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.359 pointing people out wearing them. I'm following them around taking 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.280 photos of them. I bought pairs off the shelf, so 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.200 I have a receipt. It's an unmatched feeling that I 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.080 have never had before and just such a high for me. 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:28.040 After that, Rockham continued to make two to three thousand 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.840 pairs of Grogu socks a day. It also opened doors 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:37.400 to other licensing collaborations. Today, Rockham Socks makes twenty thousand 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.000 pairs of socks a day. They have licensing deals with 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:45.400 partners like the NCAA, the NBA, the NFL, Star Wars, Marvel, 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.680 Warner Brothers, and Yes, Disney. And that's just naming a few. 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.400 They employ thirty full time employees and have even expanded 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.160 their product line beyond socks. 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.120 You know, we're a scrappy upstart company. We have zero 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.080 investors and the sky as the limit for us and 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.960 our team. The demand keeps on rising, the products keep 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.240 on getting better, and we keep on finding ways to 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.679 deliver value across the entire chain that we're work in. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.200 Tanya, What a cool business. What a great story? 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:16.440 Yeah, awesome story. 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.600 You know, if you start right at the beginning, that 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.640 is the ultimate bootstrap story if I've ever heard one. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.639 I mean, he started with nothing, He built with virtually nothing. 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.720 Now he had a business that didn't require a lot 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.440 of capital, but he just kept putting money in putting 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.119 the proceeds of what little he had back in and 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.440 not taking any outside money and building a business of 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:36.840 that size. That's quite a feat. 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.000 It's a tremendous feat. It's such a young age for 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.439 him to know to continue just to reinvest in the 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.320 business and the sacrifices that he made in doing so. 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.120 That's great entrepreneurship there. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.240 You know, you have to decide what you're going to 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:54.159 lead with, and he led with great product. He knew 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.560 what he wanted to make. He made them well. He 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.359 found something that there was demand for and he made 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:01.760 a great product that people wanted. 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.480 Yeah, and it was also a passion focused product, right, 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:06.879 it was in his background. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.280 The other thing that struck me was he had to 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.399 be pretty fearless to drop out of school. Obviously his 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.200 parents weren't too happy about that. To get a lawsuit 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.919 from a major brand that everyone's heard of, and to 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.280 just keep going, Yeah, that guy's got grit. 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.360