1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: The typical college student is stressed about what to major in, 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: how they'll do on midterms, and whether they'll land that 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: competitive internship. But as a college junior, Rob Starkman was 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: facing a totally different animal. A Fortune five hundred company 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: was threatening to sue him. 6 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: I just remember getting that lawsuit, my heart dropping, and 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: so that was a major shock to the system. There's 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 2: a lot of sleepless nights, Like I was terrified. 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: Rob believed that the company had sent the letter out 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: to a few other small businesses and that many of 11 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: them had folded under the pressure. But he wasn't going 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: to back down so easily. 13 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: I was not doing that. Like, I had way too 14 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 2: many chips in this, and I didn't want to give up. 15 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: I'm like this twenty two year old kid, like going 16 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: up against one of the biggest companies in the world. 17 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 3: Welcome to The Unshakables from Chase for Business and Ruby 18 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 3: Studio from My Heart Media. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 3: Chase for Business. 20 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: And I'm Tanya Nebo, a lawyer and consultant for business own. 21 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 3: On the Unshakables, we're sharing the daring stories of small 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 3: business owners facing their crisis points and telling the stories 23 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 3: of how they got through it. 24 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Okay, Ben, listen, I think you're really going to like 25 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,919 Speaker 1: this one. It really has it all. Lawsuits, attempted coups, explosions, 26 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: and that's just the half of it. 27 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: Sounds dangerous and intriguing. 28 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: Let's hear it on today's episode Rockham Socks from Orlando, Florida. 29 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: Rob Starkman has always been a bit of a late bloomer. 30 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: So I was six foot three leaving my freshman year 31 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: of college, and then I entered my sophomore year of 32 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: college six foot ten, so like literally over one summer, 33 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: like all of my clothes didn't fit, all my shoes 34 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 2: were out of style. It was very fast and furious. 35 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: I guess I actually just started shaving like two years ago, 36 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: so we're still growing here. 37 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, he was a sophomore at 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: the University of Central Florida and not totally sure what 39 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: he wanted to do with his life. He tried out 40 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: several different majors, but nothing really stuck. What did stick 41 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: was his love for basketball, not that he had much 42 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: of a choice. 43 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: I would say, like my heartbeat is a basketball dribble, 44 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: because my whole family is involved in sports some way, somehow. 45 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: My dad coach college basketball for twenty plus years. My 46 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: sister played in college. 47 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: During his freshman year, he started working for the men's 48 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: basketball team as a student manager. He would film and 49 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: at a highlight reels, help out during practice, and manage 50 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: the team's equipment. But there was a problem with UCFS gear. 51 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: They had recently changed suppliers and now only had generic jerseys, shorts, 52 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: and socks available for the players. So Rob took things 53 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: into his own hands. 54 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: I remember literally taking track jackets so like an embroidery 55 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: shop that was by a chicken coop in this little 56 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: podunk town right next to us, because we just needed 57 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: someone to put UCF on our merchandise. 58 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: All the generic gear was in black and white, but 59 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: UCF's colors were black and gold. So Rob took matters 60 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: into his own hands. 61 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: So I took it back to my mom's house and 62 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 2: in her kitchen sing dip dyed the black and white 63 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: sox to then come out and be black and gold. 64 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 2: And so I'm like wearing socks that are accustomed to 65 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: our school. Nobody else has them. They don't sell them 66 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: on the market. That's where some of the players on 67 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: the team wanted to know where I got him. From there, 68 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: it kind of saw a little bit of an opportunity 69 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: to fill a hole in the market. I guess. 70 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: Soon Rob was dip dying black and gold socks in 71 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: his dorm room for all the players on the team, 72 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: and everyone who saw them wanted to buy their own pair. 73 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: My entire dorman became this like incredibly intricate operation filled 74 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: with hot water and rit dip dye that I was 75 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: going to Michael's and Joe and Fabrics all around Orlando 76 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: to get. 77 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: Now, to meet the number of orders he was getting, 78 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: Rob had to buy blank socks in bulk. And by 79 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: the time he hit his junior year, he was ready 80 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: to grow beyond campus. So he put a pair of 81 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: socks for sale online. 82 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: I put a pair of socks up on eBay, and 83 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: I'm telling you, within five to fifteen minutes it sold, 84 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: and it was you know, Australia, and then just from 85 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: there it started to take off. It was probably like 86 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: three to four weeks in where I was like, I'm 87 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: going all in on this. I'm going to ride this 88 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: until the wheels fall off. 89 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: Soon he decided his business needed a proper name, so. 90 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 2: I sat down in my dorm room and started writing 91 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 2: ideas down for what the brand name should be. And 92 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: it was like five or six names in before Rockham hit. 93 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: The rock is a nickname for a basketball, to Rockham 94 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: means to wear something, and so Rockham Socks was just 95 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: like absolutely perfect, and I was like, that's it. 96 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: By just two weeks in, Rockham Socks was selling one 97 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: hundred pairs a day, faster than he could even make them. 98 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: In college became a bit of an afterthought. 99 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 2: I stopped going to basically every single class that I had, 100 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: and my second semester in junior year, I basically failed everything. 101 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: Anything that wasn't related to Rockham Socks was over for Rob. 102 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 1: He spent all day and night dying and packaging socks 103 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: for the store. 104 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: It was like sixteen to eighteen hours a day over 105 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: a stove making sure water's hot, pouring in the die. 106 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 2: It was just NonStop, like steam everywhere, die stains all 107 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 2: over the counter, and I remember having gone so hard 108 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: on the stove that I actually blew up two of 109 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: them in my apartment complex. 110 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: Tanya, I have to say it, Rob sounds like the 111 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 3: worst roommate ever, Like could you live with this guy. 112 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: You mean, the guy who takes over the kitchen is 113 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: dying socks all over the place, blows up the place twice, 114 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: that guy Ben I. 115 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 3: Know, yeah, I think not. 116 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 2: So. 117 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 3: Rob's doing hundreds of sales only a couple of weeks 118 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 3: into the business, and at this point he's just sewing 119 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 3: on eBay. I mean, how's he going to keep growing 120 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 3: this business? 121 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: Okay? So what he does is he actually moves his 122 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: business from eBay to his own website, and then he 123 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: started making socks in every imaginable like color combination. But 124 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: yet he's still the only employee. 125 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 2: I'm like doing customer service, I'm doing shipping, I'm doing production, 126 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: I'm doing procurement. And it was just like NonStop. You know, 127 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: I'm trying to build this as if it's a much 128 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: bigger brand than it actually is. 129 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: Even though Rob was all in on Rockham Socks, there 130 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: was one thing he didn't give up. He was still 131 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: working for the men's basketball team. In the weeks leading 132 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: up to Black Friday, he was hardcore focused on his 133 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: business and prepping for a rush of sales, but he 134 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: still maintained his obligations to the team. He even worked 135 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,679 Speaker 1: at a basketball tournament in the Bahamas with the team 136 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving. 137 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 2: We had made a ton of socks beforehand. We had 138 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: gotten all of our socials ready and like we had 139 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: just blown out of sales. That Black Friday night. 140 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: Rockham Socks had sold a thousand pairs in just one night. 141 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: I knew that this was a fork in the road moment. 142 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: It was like first year. I'm like, I'm twenty one. 143 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: I'm like, jeez, we did like a quarter of a 144 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 2: million dollars in business. I was loving just the eighteen 145 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: hour days of hustling and building a brand, and I 146 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 2: knew that that was the last time I were stepped 147 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: foot in a classroom. 148 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: Rob knew that he wanted to drop out of school 149 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: to pursue Rock Them full time. So we made a 150 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: plan for how to tell his mom. 151 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: Going to take my mom out for breakfast and I'm 152 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: going to take her to an outside restaurant so that 153 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: she won't cry in front of everybody. And I just 154 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: told her. I was like, hey, ma, got this opportunity, 155 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to see it through. And she goes, You're 156 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 2: dropping out of school and I was like I am, Yeah, 157 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: I am, And She's just like I'm so disappointed in you. 158 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: Rob's parents didn't talk to him for the next four months. 159 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: But by this point he had other problems. Copycat brands 160 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: had started popping up and selling the same product. He 161 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: knew he'd have to differentiate Rock them to survive, and 162 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: he knew just how he'd do it. 163 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: I found out about how you can customize like T shirts, 164 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: and so there's a process by which you can print 165 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: out an image and then transfer it via heat onto 166 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: a T shirt. And I was like, nobody's ever done 167 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: this with socks before, so let's like try it out 168 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: with socks. 169 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: Rob bought the image transfer machine and was now able 170 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: to design all types of socks. 171 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: From there, we were able to expand beyond just dip 172 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: dye colors now into actual designs onto socks. So we'd 173 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: be able to go from instead of black and red, 174 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: we might be able to put camouflage black and red 175 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: with a logo on it. 176 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: Rockham Socks had another stroke of good fortune in twenty twelve. 177 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: It was sneaker Mania. Streetwear had crossed over into the mainstream, 178 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: helped along why celebrities with shoe lines like Lebron James 179 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: and Kobe Bryant. Rockham started making socks to match each 180 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: highly anticipated sneaker release, and. 181 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 2: That became so popular in the sneaker industry that we 182 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 2: were on top of that world for two to three years. 183 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: We'd go to all the conventions, people would be wearing 184 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: our socks with their sneakers, and so all these kind 185 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: of trends are converging at the exact perfect time that 186 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: we're building this brand. 187 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: But it was at that moment that Rob's luck ran out. 188 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 2: That's where we get the big old letter saying that 189 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: we're doing trademark infringement, and so that was a major 190 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 2: shock to the system. 191 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: Rob had been using blank white sox made by a 192 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: popular athletic brand from the start, but now this company 193 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: was threatening to sue rock them if they didn't stop 194 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: selling them. The company claimed that Rockham was selling their 195 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: socks as if they were designed and officially licensed by 196 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: the big brand. 197 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: At that time, there was a ton of like little 198 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: copycat brands, and I would have to assume that they 199 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: all got the same letter, because as soon as we 200 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: got that, the competition stopped posting, they cut their websites out, 201 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: they took their ball and went home. I was not 202 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: doing that. I had way too many chips in this, 203 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: and I didn't want to give up. 204 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: Rob found a lawyer to represent the company and respond 205 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: to the letter. He was bleeding cash. It cost him 206 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars in fees just to retain the lawyer. 207 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 2: I'm like, this twenty two year old kid, like going 208 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: up against one of the biggest companies in the world. 209 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: His lawyer put together an argument asserting that customization is 210 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: not illegal. Fortunately for Rockham, there was already a case 211 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: precedent involving a well known brand that had sued a 212 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: customer for the same thing, and that big brand had 213 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: lost the case. 214 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: We use that case study, and I believe they prevailed 215 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: in saying the customization of an existing product that they 216 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: bought at retail is not illegal. You can resell that 217 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 2: as a service. And that is literally the thing that 218 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: saved us. And I just remember the sigh of relief 219 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: after like two months of not having received any other letters, 220 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 2: that I felt like we were finally in the clear. 221 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,719 Speaker 2: There was such a David Versus Goliath moment that it 222 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: doesn't even feel real. 223 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: At this point, Rob could now direct all of his 224 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: attention back to building Rockham socks. But in early twenty thirteen, 225 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: Rob realized that something about the blank socks he was 226 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: using had changed. The DIPDI didn't develop the same way, 227 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: and the designs and collars wouldn't transfer properly. It exposed 228 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: a real vulnerability in his business. 229 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: I remember coming to this realization that like I'm building 230 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: my house on someone else's land. To this day, like 231 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: it's so vivid that I remember having this phone call 232 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: of like making the decision that we're going to stop 233 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: utilizing someone else's product and develop our own, or else 234 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: we're eventually going to die. 235 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: So Rob and a small team worked with a sourcing 236 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: company in New York to come up with the perfect 237 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: prototype for a sock. Four months later, they'd perfected it. 238 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: It was a better product with much better margins. Rockham 239 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: socks continued to grow their reputation, especially in basketball. By 240 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: Christmas of twenty fifteen, they had licenses with six colleges 241 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: and could use their names, logos, and callers on Rockham socks. 242 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: That just became very, very popular, Like we put a 243 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 2: mascot on a sock, just logos and crazy colors, and 244 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: it was a different type of product that fans had 245 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: never seen before that really opened up our aperture of 246 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: what you can do as a business, and from there 247 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: it was a dogfight to go and get every single 248 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 2: other school. 249 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: Rob began to travel around the country meeting with schools. 250 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: After landing licensing deals across the NCAA, Rob decided it 251 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: was time for Rockham Socks to break into entertainment, and 252 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: he knew just where to start. The WWE. Rob had 253 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: landed a meeting with their licensing director. A longtime WWE fan, 254 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: he had been to a WWE match in middle school 255 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: and happened to be filmed during it. 256 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: I had purchased the WWE streaming network and paused it 257 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: when I knew that. The cameraman went to me with 258 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: a big old sign and I was like, this is 259 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 2: me and I am a wrestling fan. You will never 260 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 2: work with someone who is as passionate as I am 261 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:28,479 Speaker 2: about wrestling. 262 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: Robin his colleagues had a simple strategy for picking out 263 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: licenses to pursue. Stick to what you know. 264 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 2: I think it's all about authenticity. We are huge fans 265 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 2: of these licenses that we work with. It's so natural 266 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 2: for us to say, like, hey, we know the fan, 267 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: we know product that doesn't exist out there and we 268 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: can expand your market, and we are going to treat 269 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: it like the absolute biggest thing in our own lives. 270 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: By the end of twenty nineteen, Rockham Sox had licensing 271 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: deals with MLS, WWE and Nickelodeon. They were growing and 272 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: growing fast. He decided to hire a friend with the 273 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: background and operations who could help scale the company. 274 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 2: He was very instrumental in trying to scale the business, 275 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 2: like hiring a lot of people at the same time. 276 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: There's like a two factions of the business happening and 277 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: splitting off the original people that I started in my 278 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 2: house with and like was with from the beginning, and 279 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 2: then like all these new people that this guy brought 280 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 2: on and hired and led by him, and I just 281 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: felt the business getting out of my hands and getting 282 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 2: away from me. 283 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: It was soon clear that Rob had hired the wrong 284 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: person for the job. 285 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 2: It was always such a challenge to manage this man. 286 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: He was very petulant, he was very emotional, and he 287 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: would storm out of the office when any sort of 288 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: argument would happen. 289 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: The employee's behavior quickly took a toll on Rob and 290 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 1: his colleagues. 291 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: I was ready to give up the business. I was 292 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 2: ready to like just completely give up. It was like 293 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: a week before Christmas time that year, and I called 294 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 2: my mom and I'm like, I don't want to do 295 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: this anymore. 296 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: Around this time, Rob got a call from the vice 297 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: president of Rockham Socks, his longtime friend Steve. 298 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: Steve calls me and he's like, this guy started another 299 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 2: business and it's a sock business. My heart dropped. And 300 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 2: not only was it one guy the founder of it, 301 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: but as the co founder was our head artist. 302 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: From there, things only got worse. 303 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 2: We have the business name, they like started a Facebook page, 304 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 2: and we see the people that are following it. It's 305 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: like eight of our employees. We like basically devised this 306 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 2: plan to like completely purge everybody the day we got 307 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: back from the office, and so we let go of 308 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 2: eighty percent of our staff. 309 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: Rob later found out that the head of operations had 310 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: been spreading lies to the team so that he could 311 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: poach employees from the company over to his own. 312 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: I just turned twenty seven, and at the time that 313 00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: was like the worst thing that ever happened in my 314 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: life life, like backstabbed by close people that I thought 315 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: I was giving opportunities to. Thought we were working on 316 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: great things with I felt disrespected, My trust was violated, 317 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 2: and from there I was looking around every corner and 318 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: there was like months of me just lacking complete and 319 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 2: utter confidence. 320 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: Rob was gutted, but over time he started to take 321 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: responsibility for what had happened. 322 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: Now, looking back, I could clearly say that without that, 323 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: the business would not be where it is today, because 324 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: I look back on that moment and I'm like, I 325 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: was so immature, twenty six years old trying to oversee 326 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: twenty people. I was so immature in coming across as 327 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 2: putting myself first before the business and before a team, 328 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: or not taking things as seriously as I should have, 329 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 2: and like leadership wasn't even in my wheelhouse. And so 330 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 2: after that, like having to look back and stomach the 331 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 2: fact that you are absolutely the reason why this happened 332 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: to you, that was tough. There was like a complete 333 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: shot across the bout for an ego, and it completely 334 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: brought me down to earth. And from there on, one 335 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: hundred percent of my focus was put into being the 336 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: best leader that I could be. 337 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: Having to take stock also forced Rob to grow and 338 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: to change for the better. He got himself in the 339 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: company back on its feet, and thanks to a new 340 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: proprietary software, Rockham was now able to make products quickly 341 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: and on demand. At the same time. 342 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: Disney Plus launches Star Wars the Mandalorian and Grogu becomes 343 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: like a thing around the world and like it instantly 344 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: catches fire. 345 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: Disneynew Grogu would be a hit, and they were right. 346 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: As soon as it launches, people are like clamoring for 347 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 2: this product. 348 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: Most manufacturers needed significant lead time, not weeks but months 349 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: to make their products, but thanks to their new software, 350 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: Rockem could produce large quantities quickly. 351 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: And I remember going to the airport with nothing but 352 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: five hundred pairs of Grogu socks in a Duffel bag. 353 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: Get to the partner's facility in Anaheim, which is right 354 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: around the block from Disneyland. I'm getting in his car 355 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 2: and we get my Duffel bag out of the sky's 356 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: car and I'm wheeling it into the back of a 357 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: store and I'm like a child, you know, I'm like 358 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: pointing people out wearing them. I'm following them around taking 359 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: photos of them. I bought pairs off the shelf, so 360 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 2: I have a receipt. It's an unmatched feeling that I 361 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: have never had before and just such a high for me. 362 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: After that, Rockham continued to make two to three thousand 363 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: pairs of Grogu socks a day. It also opened doors 364 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: to other licensing collaborations. Today, Rockham Socks makes twenty thousand 365 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: pairs of socks a day. They have licensing deals with 366 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: partners like the NCAA, the NBA, the NFL, Star Wars, Marvel, 367 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers, and Yes, Disney. And that's just naming a few. 368 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: They employ thirty full time employees and have even expanded 369 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: their product line beyond socks. 370 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: You know, we're a scrappy upstart company. We have zero 371 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 2: investors and the sky as the limit for us and 372 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: our team. The demand keeps on rising, the products keep 373 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: on getting better, and we keep on finding ways to 374 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 2: deliver value across the entire chain that we're work in. 375 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 3: Tanya, What a cool business. What a great story? 376 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome story. 377 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: You know, if you start right at the beginning, that 378 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 3: is the ultimate bootstrap story if I've ever heard one. 379 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 3: I mean, he started with nothing, He built with virtually nothing. 380 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 3: Now he had a business that didn't require a lot 381 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 3: of capital, but he just kept putting money in putting 382 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 3: the proceeds of what little he had back in and 383 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 3: not taking any outside money and building a business of 384 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 3: that size. That's quite a feat. 385 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: It's a tremendous feat. It's such a young age for 386 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: him to know to continue just to reinvest in the 387 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: business and the sacrifices that he made in doing so. 388 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: That's great entrepreneurship there. 389 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 3: You know, you have to decide what you're going to 390 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 3: lead with, and he led with great product. He knew 391 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 3: what he wanted to make. He made them well. He 392 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 3: found something that there was demand for and he made 393 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 3: a great product that people wanted. 394 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was also a passion focused product, right, 395 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: it was in his background. 396 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 3: The other thing that struck me was he had to 397 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 3: be pretty fearless to drop out of school. Obviously his 398 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 3: parents weren't too happy about that. To get a lawsuit 399 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 3: from a major brand that everyone's heard of, and to 400 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 3: just keep going, Yeah, that guy's got grit. 401 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: And the strength to stand up and be able to say, 402 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: you know, we aren't doing anything wrong. We're just going 403 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: to find a different way to do this. But we're 404 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: not going to be bullied out of business because of 405 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: who we're facing. I think that's huge. That took a 406 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: lot of guts right there. 407 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, And he characterized it, particularly at the end, about 408 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 3: making hard decisions, and I think that is a story 409 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 3: in entrepreneurship that is too often underplayed. Ultimately, when you're 410 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 3: the boss and every buck stops with you, you have 411 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 3: to make really hard decisions. He talked about hiring and 412 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 3: firing friends. He talked about, you know, having to give 413 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: really devastating news to his parents about his decision about 414 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 3: at school. You have to make some really tough calls 415 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: that are tough, emotionally tough from a business standpoint, and 416 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 3: they're not obvious decisions. They're difficult. You just can't underplay 417 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 3: what that means in terms of the resilience that a 418 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 3: business owner has to show. 419 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the theme of courage is woven well 420 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: throughout his story, and he even had to make some 421 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 1: tough relational decisions even from the beginning. He had to 422 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: make some what I would say are some courageous choices 423 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: that I mean they ended up paying off, of course, 424 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: but he had to do that all throughout. 425 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 3: The Other thing that inspired me listening to him is 426 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 3: how much he has become a self aware learner through 427 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: his mistakes. If you think about particularly what happened with 428 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 3: his employees and what happened with him sort of in 429 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 3: many ways, almost losing his business to one employee and 430 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 3: a subset of employees. He didn't just do the hard thing, 431 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 3: but he's thought really hard about how to make sure 432 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 3: that never happens again, how to build in a culture. 433 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 3: My view is he acknowledged that he had some things 434 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 3: wrong that allowed that to have and he's not about 435 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 3: to let that happen again. 436 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: He was great at staying the course, and he was 437 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: also great at taking responsibility. You noticed that throughout his 438 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: story he said, you know it was on me, I 439 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: take responsibility for this that happened, or I take responsibility 440 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: for bellowing people to come in and infiltrate the way 441 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: that they did, and then used each of these challenges 442 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: to just further elevate the company and where it was going. 443 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: I think that's tremendous. 444 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 3: What he learned is, you know, there was that book 445 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 3: what got you here Won't get you there? And I 446 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 3: think what made him really good in the early days, 447 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 3: which was being great at identifying a product, being great 448 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 3: at getting that product out at amplifying the marketing around 449 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 3: that product wasn't going to be what was going to 450 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: make him successful as he started to scale the business. 451 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: And I think he was self aware of that, and 452 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 3: I mean he learned it in a tough way, but 453 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 3: he learned it. 454 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: I think it's important for small business owners to look 455 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: at how their organization is and the communication lines there 456 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: and ensure that those are open somehow. 457 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 3: I agree. I mean that's not just for small business owners. 458 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 3: That's fair, that's what that's quality relationships and quality organizations 459 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 3: are based on trust, and ultimately trust is the foundation 460 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 3: of all of that. And if there isn't trust, then 461 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 3: the rest of it is just commentary, to be honest. Yeah, 462 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 3: if you've had to make that many hard decisions and 463 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 3: you can come out of it on the other side 464 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 3: feeling like you've learned and you've grown and you're ready 465 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 3: for the next step, that's a real lesson and resilience. Yeah. 466 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: I think he did such a great job with that, 467 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: And to be so young in making these tough decisions 468 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: and taking responsibility for his decisions, all these just kind 469 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: of an amazing foundation for what's to come with this company. 470 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: But it's a great lesson for other people to see 471 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: as well. 472 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 3: Tanya, I want to go to the advice that Rob 473 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 3: shared with us because it had to do with his 474 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: core values and one in particular that I think is 475 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 3: relevant for every small business owner. 476 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 2: One of the ones that I was thinking about today 477 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: is how disciplined do you have to be as a leader, 478 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 2: So being one hundred percent disciplined across the board, making 479 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: sure that things are done correctly to your standard, but 480 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 2: working with your team to get them to a point 481 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 2: where they're doing that kind of work satisfactory. And so 482 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: starting with that mindset that people around you are willing 483 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 2: to work hard and willing to do the right thing 484 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 2: as long as you can teach them. It's all those 485 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: things that you have to come to work every single 486 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 2: day one hundred percent ready to lead your squad. 487 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to The Unshakables. If you 488 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: like this episode, please rate and review it. It'll help 489 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: our sho'll find more listeners. I'm Tanya Nebo and this 490 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: is The Unshakables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio 491 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: from iHeartMedia. On the next episode of The Unshakables, makeup 492 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: artist and influencer Desi Perkins never set out to start 493 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: a sunglasses company, but after a brand partnership turns sour, 494 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: she decided to severtize and start a company of her own. 495 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 2: The Unshakables is a production of Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia