WEBVTT - Rethinking Work 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.760 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to okay f Daily with 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:19.360 me your girl, Danielle Moody recording live not so much 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.280 from my Brooklyn Cilarium. Folks. As you know, it is 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.279 my birthday week and I take my birthday very seriously 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:30.360 as do many scorpios. But before I checked out to 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:35.080 have some much needed good times and recharging, I left 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.000 you all with a slight of interviews that I hope 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:42.120 that you have enjoyed. Coming up today is my conversation 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:47.320 with the author of the book The Episodic Careers, Farai Chideya, 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.200 who I've known for many, many years. Through her work 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.600 and politics and advocacy and justice as well as her 0:00:54.640 --> 0:01:00.000 work in media and as a black woman. She has 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.840 pretty much laid the path and the foundation for many 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.600 of us who started out following her and her guidelines 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.880 to how to navigate the media and being in media 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.240 as a black woman. But in today's episode, we delve 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.480 into what it means to work and to be a worker. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.880 One of the things that I think is a positive 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.600 that came out of the trauma, the beautiful mess that 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.959 is COVID nineteen and our continuing dealings with a global 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.840 health pandemic is that for those of us that are 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:42.200 in privileged spaces, we were really able to assess or 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:47.039 begin to assess our relationship to work. You see, growing up, 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.600 I think that many of us were taught that, you know, 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.920 you keep your head down, you do what is asked 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.480 of you, and you will be rewarded with a paycheck 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.680 at the end of each week. Where you are able 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.720 to take care of your family, you're able to buy 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.640 a home. And maybe that was true at one point 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.760 in time in our American history, but we know as 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.960 we are assessing things later on in life that whose 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.840 back was that on right? Who actually was given the 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.560 loans in order to buy a home? Who was given, 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.160 you know, the raises because their wives were pregnant. Who 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.600 was the one that was able to have access to 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:30.720 economic mobility? And these ideas of pensions and long hours 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.600 and just doing the work no longer exist. You know, 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.880 when Cheryl Sandberg wrote her book Lean In, it was 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.360 talking about the fact that we had moved ourselves from 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.399 this place where we were trying to climb a corporate ladder, right, 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.080 which means that in order for you to climb up, 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.280 other people needed to come down. Right. They needed to 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.240 do a dismount from their career path, they would retire 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.359 and then you know, you would kiss the and be 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.720 able to move up. But she followed up with that 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.480 kind of thinking that corporate ladder into the jungle gym, 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:12.360 right where things no longer work linearly, Right, that we're 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:16.280 swinging from one position to the next. Wherever there is 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:20.160 an opening is where a lot of people find themselves. Again, 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.720 I say that with folks who are privileged in terms 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.519 of the type of education that they have, where they 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.200 actually live, their geography, what they've studied, and whether or 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.000 not it's a industry that is thriving or one that's 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:38.000 barely surviving. But there are a lot of differences that 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.160 we understand now that COVID has been a reflection in 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.520 a mirror to us that a lot of the ways 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.200 in which people have been working has been extraordinarily exploited. 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.760 What for I will tell us is that it has 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:55.200 been exploited for bipop people, right, But now that exploitation 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.680 has begin to seep into white communities and now guess what, 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.920 we're in an uproar collectively. But the reality is is 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.440 that during this time we have been thinking about our 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.320 relationship to work. What does it mean to work forty 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.160 hours a week and still not be able to provide 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.960 for yourself or your loved ones? What does it mean 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:20.360 to be self employed when the tax system is actually 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.920 not working in your favor? Does not encourage ingenuity, innovation 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.760 outside of being a part of an organization and or 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:33.520 a company. What does it mean that when families, when 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:38.280 we are family planning, recognize that in a lot of ways, 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.560 if both parents are going to be out of the 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:45.760 home and working, if there are two family households, that 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.920 you're going to be paying as much in childcare as 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.640 you are for your mortgage or your rent. Which is 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:58.280 why in Joe Biden's Build Back Better right in this 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.120 Human Infrastructure Bill, I don't remember which is named what 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.080 at this point, but in the Human Infrastructure Bill, why 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:08.680 we were talking about paid family leave. Why as a 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.560 part of the COVID nineteen Critical Response Package that we 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:17.200 were looking at child tax credits because you see too 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.960 many people, namely women, had been forced out of the workforce, 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.520 right because at the height of twenty twenty, in the 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.839 height of the pandemic, they were being forced to be 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:35.000 both their child's teacher as well as their primary caregiver. Right, 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:39.760 and so if we are not setting up a culture 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.919 in which we are both able to work and live 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.080 and not give this false construct of the work life balance. 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.880 Knowing that something has to give? But should it be 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.279 our sanity? Should it be our mental and emotional and 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.440 physical well being? Should that be the thing that gives? 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:02.279 And what we have seen through out this slowdown and 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.800 this emergence back into a new abnormal is that we 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:12.920 have been participating in a system that is associated with 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:20.320 our spiritual, emotional and physical demise. Right, that we do 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.240 not have the freedom to be able to move from jobs. Right, 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.920 this was the whole one of the many ideas behind Obamacare, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:33.560 that you shouldn't be forced to stay at your position 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.880 of work, right if in fact you hate it and 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.440 you're just now doing it for the health benefits. That 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.839 you should be able to get healthcare regardless of whether 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:45.880 or not you're employed at a big company or a 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:50.560 small nonprofit or self employed. And I think that you know, 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.480 for far too long we have just gone with the flow, 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:55.960 and the wrong sense of going with the flow. Just 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.599 because things have always been done in one way doesn't 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.200 mean that there is an opportunity to evaluate how we 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.120 can do things differently where it benefits all parties. This 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:12.840 has always been a very employer centric country, which is 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.560 that we are tending to the needs of the CEOs 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:21.360 and the shareholders and the executive directors at right at 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.320 the expense of the workers. You know, even in this 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.280 concept right pre COVID, when you're looking at the ways 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:35.720 in which Silicon Valley began to change the physical sense 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.640 of our work, right, they started to bring in this 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.560 collegiate idea of campuses where you had everything that you 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:48.440 needed on said campus, whether it be fully stocked cafeterias, 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:55.560 foodsball tables, beer on tap, wine nights, the ability to 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.880 get your dry cleaning sent out and picked up, and 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.560 all of these things were done. And initially we thought 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:06.200 that those changes were great. Sure, who doesn't want to 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.160 be able to readily pull down on the tap at 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.280 their place of work and grab a beer and finish 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.680 up the day's work once it hits five o'clock and 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:20.360 you're not leaving. Except that all amounted to was creating 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:24.000 a velvet cage for a lot of people, because it 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.440 wasn't about how are you creating a better life for 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.480 those employees once they leave the campus. It was creating 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.320 the conditions so that they would never have any reason 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.120 to leave in the first fucking place. Right, So you 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.480 had that shift that was happening. But now with folks 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:47.640 having had been home for several months during quarantine, but 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.679 then many of us who are still in jobs where 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.880 they have gone fully remote or they're only coming back 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.120 two and three days a week, this is allowing for 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.480 there to be an opportunity for us to really assess 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.000 what it is that we need from our employers as 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:09.200 opposed to what is it that we are giving them. Right. 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.320 And the fact is, you know, I left a firm, 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.600 and I've said this before, I left working for others 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:24.080 roughly three years ago. Now I've been self employed for 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.319 three years. And the reason for that was a couple 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.760 of things. I began to really think about what was 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.400 important to me right and for I and I will 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.480 get into this conversation as well, what was important where 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.160 do my values lie? And I have always, you know, 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.679 worked in spaces and places where the mission of said 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:53.040 organization or office was aligned with my personal mission, meaning 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:57.959 that my whole work and life professionally has been around 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:03.040 being of service. Right, making my life of service to 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:08.480 other people. So, whether that was working at a environmental organization, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.560 trying to give children of color access to the outdoors, right, 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.600 making greener spaces, and moving us from this testing culture 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:23.080 into a time if you remember when children were losing recess, right, 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.280 because we needed to teach to the test and we 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.880 needed more time. And so they don't need to run around, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.200 and they don't need to socially connect with one another. 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.600 They just need to fill in fucking bubbles all day 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.400 right in multiple choice tests. And so part of my 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:42.400 work was about stopping that because I recognized how detrimental 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.760 it was to kids. You know, from working in the 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:51.720 women's organization and spaces to working in LGBTQ plus spaces, 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.719 and you know, working for these organizations and companies and 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:02.280 representatives all helped color the fact of what was important 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.440 to me right, and what was important to me was 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.920 the ability to say no. I didn't always want it 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.840 to be beholden to who my employer said was going 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:14.880 to be the next client, was going to be the 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.160 next issue. I wanted the autonomy to be able to 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:24.439 use that beautiful sentence no, right, or as Nicolehannah Jones said, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:29.760 I refuse. Right. Being self employed allows me the freedom 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.120 to be able to select what best aligns with my 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.920 personal values and mission. I'm not saying that I would 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.760 never go back into an organization or company type setting, 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.280 but I'm saying it would have to be something major, right, 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:51.680 something major that was in true alignment. And I think 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:56.520 that right now, as we are all changing, our relationship 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.360 to work or work in general is changing. You know, 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.880 first off, it was you know, this shift from agriculture 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.640 to industry. Then it was the shift into the gig economy, 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.240 and then you know, that became super exploitive, which we 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.040 thought was going to be a democratization of work, right, 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.679 work when you want, how you want, and that became exploitive. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.400 And now we're in a next shift, right where employers 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.680 are recognizing, after people working from home for a year 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.720 plus the lie of the fact that you needed an office, 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.360 that their productivity was going to slow down if people 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.800 had the ability to what shop, you know, grocery store, 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.079 shop while you were taking a call, while you were 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.520 on a zoom. And so I think that there is 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.640 a lot of opportunity at this moment for us collectively 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:50.079 to reimagine our relationship to work. And you know, frankly, 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.280 for I and I start off with the utter lie 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.600 that I have been talking about on wok F, which 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.280 is that there is a labor shortage. No, there is 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.240 not a la for shortest. There is not a shortage 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.480 of workers willing to work. There is a shortage of 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.439 employers willing to pay people a living wage, willing to 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.840 give them health benefits, right, willing to like meet their 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:18.000 needs and not just think that they are expendable. Right. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:24.520 And so if you are being emotionally, physically and spiritually 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:30.000 beat down forty hours a week, then you may rethink 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.840 like how I show up or if I show up. 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:37.600 There's a reason why eleven million people have left the workforce, right, 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.640 There's a reason for the mass resignation. And it isn't 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:46.160 just laziness, as as as our Republican politicians would love 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.640 to tell us, Oh, the American people, we need to 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:53.120 cut their unemployment because they're lazy. No, that's not the case. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:57.559 We're just not willing to be exploited in this very extractive, 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:03.360 top heavy capitalistic system that only rewards the few at 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:07.120 the expense of the many. And so, in this conversation 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.400 with Pharai we unpack a lot and we talk about 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:16.520 what it means to reimagine community and community building, economic stability. 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.960 When young people nowadays are marrying later, living at home 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.240 with their families longer, and not buying cars, not buying 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.960 homes all because they're strapped with student debt, is there 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:33.480 another way for them to exist and the ability to thrive. 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.840 Those are's parts of the conversation that I will have 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.840 with Pharai that is coming up next. But folks, tell 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.800 me what your experiences have been with work? Right? Are 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.160 you a person that went into work strictly focused on 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.120 their passion right or is it just a means to 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.360 an end? And how are you viewing it differently now, 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.760 right in the midst of this health pandemic and the 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:03.000 advent of you know, may streaming of remote work and 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.280 what does it look like in the future for you? 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.360 So coming up next is my conversation, my interview with 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:16.680 the author of Episodic Careers for I TODAYA folks, I 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.360 am so excited to welcome to woke a f daily 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:26.000 for what I believe is the first time I think 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:30.720 for I TODAYA on to discuss a myriad of things. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.760 We will open up with talking about her book, The 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:39.440 Episodic Career and how we must be psychologically self employed, 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.960 as well as delving into, you know, the politics of 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:48.440 the day, because you are no stranger to political forums, 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.400 to discussions of race and inequality in media and how 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:56.000 we talk about this, as you have been steeped in 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.800 this work for quite some time. I want to start off, though, 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:05.400 with your book, The Episodic Career, because you know right 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:07.800 now and I'm certain that you're you're listening in the 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.479 same way that I am to all of these segments 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.160 and news reports about how there is a labor shortage, 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.760 about how people don't want to work. The Wall Street 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.440 Journal a couple of weeks ago had their article the 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:26.480 mass Resignation, right over eleven million people have left the workforce. 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.560 You had Republicans saying that we needed to end support 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.240 for unemployed people because that would then force them back 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.960 into work. But what I have recognized and what I 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.160 want to know from you, is that that is a lie, right, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.560 and that there isn't a shortage of workers. There is 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:50.800 a shortage of employers that are paying Joe, paying for 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.880 work that is of high paying quality right with benefits, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.600 where people are able to work forty hours a week 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.720 and not have to play you know, three cardmonte or 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.280 Russian Roulette with their with their lives. Should I get 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.959 medicine today? Can I afford to do that? And groceries 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.560 and childcare and all of these different things? How do 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:15.480 you make sense of the current narrative around work and 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.639 workers in America? You know, first of all, thanks for 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.360 having me on and thanks for doing everything you do. 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.639 I think what's what is happening in some ways is 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.159 that the way that black people have always been treated 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.199 by the labor economy has become more generalized, you know, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.320 and there are more you know that that it was before, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:43.040 you know, and it's always fluctuated somewhat, but never that much. 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.400 It's you know, for example, the unemployment rate for Black 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.160 Americans has almost always been, you know, in the modern era, 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.640 twice that for White Americans. And it's not that Black 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.240 people don't want to work, but beyond a certain point, 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.399 you know, given the massive amounts of labor discrimination and 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:03.160 also just structural you know, like so many structural barriers 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:09.960 to being a working parent. For example, black Americans are 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.080 put in situations where the labor market has not rewarded 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.840 us or served us, and now that's happening to white Americans. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.439 And what we're seeing is kind of a mass reckoning 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:26.320 with what has been an extractive labor market. And I 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.640 talked about this to you know, a group of wealthy 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:37.119 people whom you know, we're asking what can we do 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:42.040 about America today? And I said extracted economics were one 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.680 part of the pillar of destruction, you know, like that 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:51.400 that essentially people have been giving their lives for no 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.440 fixed reward at the end. Like at least in the past, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.080 my family has had a lot of government civil servants, 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.760 you know, Post Office, social secure, the administration. They got 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.359 their retirement benefits. What do you get if you have 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:10.359 been working subsistence wages at the dollar General or even 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:12.920 a better job than that, but that you've always been 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.879 just you know, paycheck to paycheck and you have saved 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:20.800 nothing for retirement. And then you know, people who are 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.439 considered middle class are one paycheck away from disaster. And 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.200 I think what some people are They're looking at the 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:32.639 labor market and saying, I am working so hard just 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.400 to be so stressed and broke. At least I can 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.080 take care of my family. There were high school students 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.400 who did not go to high school when they were 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.919 asked to go in person during COVID because they were like, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.479 I've got a family full of essential workers that are 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.840 already risking their life. I'm not going to be that 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.520 person who brings COVID back and gets everybody sick and 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.600 then we get evicted. So you have, you know, And 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:03.439 that was New York Times op ed. But you have 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.840 teenagers who have been making decisions about their level of exposure. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.800 You have parents making decisions about their level of exposure. 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.360 And I don't just mean exposure to COVID. I mean 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:20.560 exposure to what can be. And I've had the whole 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:25.000 spectrum of experiences from work being like magical to work 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:30.080 being like, you know, potentially life threatening on a psychological level, 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:35.880 you know, and you know with harassment and discrimination. But 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:42.399 when work becomes something that is humiliating and also doesn't 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.840 reward you financially, it's like why why, you know, Like 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.080 so many people, there have been so many great stories 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.159 about people who just that they are that manager at 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.719 the dollar store. No one is showing up to work 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.120 because they're all opting out, and the managers working three 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.520 shifts in a row, and then the managers like I'm out, 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.320 you know, like you know, like done. And then you 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.880 have all of the people who thought that they were 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.719 solidly middle class to income and all of a sudden 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:18.880 they're homeschooling or their homeschooling toddlers, and it's it's I mean, 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:24.240 you know, toddlers through elementary through whatever, and yeah, they're 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.199 down to one exactly. It's like we cannot survive, you know, 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.040 Like there's so many people who are like, we cannot 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:38.200 survive the middle class to earner parent family because we 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.600 just we will we will all lose our minds. And 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.560 I do see, like what we covered this on on 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.000 our Body Politic my show, that there is a profound 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:52.240 mental health crisis affecting parents, you know, um from the pandemic. 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:55.000 Like there's seriously like a huge uptick. I mean it's 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.600 it's uptick across the board. But I think that we 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:00.439 can recognize not just for parents, but for care givers. 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.159 It can be like I just talked to someone the 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:06.760 other day who's, you know, has her husband suffered a 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:14.000 traumatic brain injury, and now like the caregiver situation, like 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:18.640 there are caregivers who both have gotten COVID from their 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.240 clients or given COVID to their clients, and so it's 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:24.440 just changing, you know, so you get the picture. There's 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:27.920 a lot of people who have factors in their lives 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:32.240 where what had been considered an already shaky but slightly 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:36.000 functional way to earn a living has just gone up 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.800 in smoke. And you know, you know, it's funny because 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:40.720 I believe, you know, in so many ways and a 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:42.560 lot of the things, a lot of the examples that 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:47.720 you just provided illuminate this. You know, we were fundamentally 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:51.200 cracked as it was, right like the way in which 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.320 you know, our economy has worked, the way in which 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.919 that we even look and view work. Right Like we 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.800 are seen, particularly by our representatives, who were supposed to be, 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.320 you know, amplifying our voices and our needs. We are 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.560 just seen as cogs in a machine, right like you know, 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.680 Stephanie Rule on MSNBC a couple of weeks back had 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:15.000 said something and I'm sure you know she didn't originate it, 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.040 but she said, you know, with regard to Facebook, when 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:20.680 you're not being charged for something, recognized that you are 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:25.159 the product. And I see that in reality that you know, 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:29.040 our representatives who are supposed to again be our voices, 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:32.119 see us as the product, see us as like we 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.840 are the ones that are malfunctioning because we don't want 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:39.160 to show up in this extractive and oppressive system that 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:43.840 leaves us depleted and emotionally scarred, right and psychologically abused 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:47.960 in order to be able to barely provide for ourselves 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:50.840 and our families. And I think that COVID, you know, 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:56.120 the pandemic illuminated so many gaps and problems that we had. 0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:59.439 But what we are seeing right now too is that 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.000 as in this desire to force ourselves back into this 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:07.240 space of quote unquote normal, that people are recognizing with 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:10.080 this pause, those of us that had the privilege to pause, 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:14.920 recognize that. Man, how I've been working and thinking about 0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:18.600 work and absorbing work, Like I get the joke. Work 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:20.440 is supposed to be a four letter you know, work 0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:23.359 is a four letter word, but it isn't supposed to 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:27.720 feel right like this oppressive. And so do you think 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:29.320 that we are at a moment you know when they 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:32.320 talk about in real estate it's a buyer's marketer, it's 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.879 a seller's market. Do you think that we have arrived 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:40.040 or are we arriving at the worker's market right when 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:43.600 we are at a place where we get to determine 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:47.280 how work flows as opposed to just being forced to 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:52.200 go along for the get along. That's a complicated one. 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:55.320 I think that we are in a worker's market for 0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:59.280 hourly wages. So I've seen, like I've driven by designs 0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:01.640 where a burger can is like seventeen dollars an hour 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.920 people needed, you know, like that kind of stuff, but 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:09.000 for and and and you now see Amazon, for example, 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:13.760 offering um people who've who come on board and are 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:17.200 there for a certain amount of time college tuition. That's 0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:22.000 that's one step above. But still there is not a 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:26.320 clear pathway in most cases for people to have the 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:30.480 job that allows them to work hours that they can 0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:36.480 do caregiving and receive some form of you know, deferred 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:41.960 compensation ie, retirement savings and healthcare and do it in 0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:44.680 a way that's functional. So there we're seeing I think, 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:48.600 a wage increase first, but we're not necessarily seeing all 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:50.879 the system changes. And what I have said for years, 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:53.160 and what I wrote about in the book The Episodic Career, 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:55.920 was the way that when you compare us to other 0:25:57.119 --> 0:26:01.119 you know, what are considered developed nations, we get nothing 0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:06.639 in Germany, right right, right, in Germany, you can have 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:11.560 a child, both parents can take parental leave for several 0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:15.760 months and it can be paid, and at least the 0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:23.040 mother or primary parent can have a guaranteed job. Three 0:26:23.560 --> 0:26:26.239 years later. They don't get paid the whole time, but 0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:31.080