1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: States across the country maintain prescription drug monitoring programs, which 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: contained data about prescriptions for controlled substances and supports state's 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: efforts to combat prescription drug abuse. In light of the 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: opioid crisis and the increasing number of deaths across the 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: country from opiate to opioid abuse, states are struggling with 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: the question of how much accent access law enforcement officials 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: should have to these databases. New Jersey is currently considering 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: a bill that would allow police and process prosecutors to 9 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: access its database without a core order, but Governor Chris 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Christie opposes the bill. Here to talk with us about 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: it and the issue more generally is Robert Mints, a 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: partner at um at Carter and English Bob, Can you 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: describe for us what is in these databases and why 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: states have them? Uh? Sure, Michael, Um. The information that 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: are in these databases is really quite extensive. It would 16 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: it requires. It contains information on every prescription for a 17 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: controlled substance that is dispensed by pharmacies in the state. 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: So that can include everything from highly addictive prescription opioids 19 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: such as vigodin and OxyContin to stimulants such as Adderall 20 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: can It includes anti anxiety drugs, also common pain killers, 21 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: and costs of presence with cody, and these are things 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: that are all subject to becoming addictive narcotics. But at 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: the same time, as you can see, it covers a 24 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: very broad spectrum of potential health issues. Bob. But we've 25 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: often talked about court cases getting warrants for cell phones. 26 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: Here it is the most personal of a person's records, 27 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: their medical records, and for things they might not want 28 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: people to know. Why not have to get a warrant 29 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: for this? Well, that's a good point, and you find 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: that even state medical boards and medical societies, uh surprisingly 31 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: are coming down on the side of privacy advocates because 32 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: there is some concern that if individuals know that prescription 33 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: drugs that they may be taking for all the host 34 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: of issues that I just mentioned, if that information is 35 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: going to be readily available to law enforcement without even 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: a judge taking a look at it and determining whether 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: there's probable cause, that that may drive those individuals underground 38 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: and away from the medical care that they need. So surprisingly, 39 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: it's the doctors themselves who are objecting to this and 40 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: who are saying that we want to make sure that 41 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 1: the relationship between doctor, between patients and doctors is not 42 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: in any way tampered with, and we don't want to 43 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: take patients and drive them away from dealing with doctors 44 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: who are in the best position to help these individuals 45 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: with their addictions. Well, on the other side, there are 46 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: legislators and prosecutors who think that the police and prosecutors 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: should be able to get access to this information very readily. 48 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: What's the argument from them, Well, the argument from them 49 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: is that there is an epidemic out there. There's no 50 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: question about that. Death from opioid drugs top thirty thousand 51 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: in which was nearly double the rate from a decade ago. 52 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: And it's very easy in many states for individuals to 53 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: go doctor shopping, in other words, walk down the street 54 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: and get the same prescription from multiple physicians, and the 55 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: physician who maybe the third in line, will prescribe an 56 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: opioid having no knowledge that two other doctors have previously 57 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: prescribed the same drugs, and the person then can get 58 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: triple the dose that there that they ought to be 59 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: actually taking. Bob. In California, the Supreme courts the state 60 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: Supreme Court rule recently that the state Medical Board can 61 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: dig through those prescription drug records without a warrant or 62 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: a subpoena. What's the weighing process to be used to 63 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: determine whether or not a subpoena or a warrant is required. Well, 64 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: I think it depends June to some extent on who's 65 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: gaining access. In some states, the Medical Board can have 66 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: that access. In Missouri, for example, there's a new state 67 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: law or an executive order I should say that gives 68 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: the state Department of Health the information. Um, But this 69 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: is this law in New Jersey is taking one step 70 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: further saying that law enforcement can itself gather this information 71 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: without a warrant, and that is what has some privacy 72 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: advocates concerned about it. In about a minute, we have 73 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: left The New York Times reporting today about prosecutors charging 74 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: drug dealers who are selling up yards with the death 75 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: of people who have used them. What's the theory there 76 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: that prosecutors would follow. Well, there's two things going on here. 77 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: There is a concern about individuals who are addicted, and 78 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: that's what these UH databases are designed to protect. But 79 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: there's also situations where doctors and pharmacists are actively supplying 80 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: people and these prosecutions are unique because they are actually 81 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: going after doctors who are knowingly providing pain killers to 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: people who they know to be addicts, and prosecutors are 83 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: trying to tie them in in a criminal case on 84 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: saying that they're criminally responsible for these deaths. Well our 85 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: thanks to Bob Mints, a partner at mcarter and English, 86 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: for being here to talk about the balance between privacy 87 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: and law enforcement needs to know about prescription drug abuse.