WEBVTT - Cavs Fall To Pacers In 5 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.280 This crowd rises to its being what Carl slamming it 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:09.360 out car left wing free ball perfect? 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:11.799 Then he blocked the shot at the rim. 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:13.800 How with the left. 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:14.640 Hand head of foul. 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.040 Welcome to Chasetown Podcast, part of the CAZ Media family. 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.720 I'm your host Justin Rohwan. The Chasetown is presented by Fubo, 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:23.320 the official streaming partner of the Calves. Watch over three 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.840 hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV, including 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.600 FanDuel Sports Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.959 Try for free at FuboTV dot com slash CAZ if 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.560 you can hear it in my voice. The Cleveland Cavaliers 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.839 have lost their series to the Indiana Pacers in five games. 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.880 The game was close, they had a lead, Indiana made 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.200 their push took a lead. The Cavs had a chance 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.440 to tie it up near the end of the game, 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.479 but ultimately came up short. The season is over. It 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.560 stings and joining me today to discuss it as my 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:56.760 co host, Carter Rodriguez. 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:05.520 Carter, Hey, nobuddy, you know I'm feeling melancholy. You spend 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:12.039 a lot of time investing into into this team, you know, Uh, Yeah. 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.120 I always think about the thing I said to No 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.560 I'm on this very podcast, our dear friend Jeff Nomena, 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.320 that if our significant others had a hobby that left 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.040 them this down, we would think they were out of 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:31.800 their minds. And uh, you know, that's just that's just 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.800 that's just how I feel right now. I feel sad, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:41.080 Feel frustrated that, you know, they were banged up again 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.679 and you really saw that, Feel disappointed that all the 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:49.640 things that I was worried about them kind of came 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:54.240 back to bite. Feel stupid. We're kind of for believing, 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.480 you know, like you have all those kind of feelings 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.520 going through your brain. Yeah, yeah, just because like I really, 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:04.760 you know, it's hard one for me to get to 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:06.160 the point where I'm like, I think we might be 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.160 able to win a title this year, you know, like 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:13.160 that I take my time getting to that opinion. And 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.560 not that I was ever. I mean, I wasn't gonna 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.040 pick us in the next round if it was us 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.240 versus the Celtics, which you know that's its own thing. Yeah, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.840 but yeah, you just I feel like you kind of 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:30.680 are going through the feelings right now, and it's it's sad. 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:32.240 I'm just sad Man. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.480 It definitely stings, and you know, one of the things 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.000 I was reflecting on, you know, it's always tough when 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.119 we go post game, you know, even if it's a win, 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.359 to collect your thoughts and you know, kind of have 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.160 that same level of preparedness we do with the other podcast. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.679 But one of the things I was kind of reflecting 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:51.720 on is, you know, we've been doing this podcast since 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.640 twenty seventeen. This is the first time that you and 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.720 I have done a podcast where the Cavs didn't go 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:58.840 as far as we thought that they would at the 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.880 start of a season. You know, in twenty seventeen and eighteen, 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.920 we thought they'd make the finals. After Lebron left, we 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.600 didn't say that this team was going to be a 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.000 team that could make the playoffs or the postseason. You know, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.120 in those following years, I think we kept the expectations 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.239 realistic and found things to care about during that time. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.560 And you know, looking back at the last few years, yes, 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:25.079 our expectations would grow within the season when this team 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.400 would overachieve, you know, particularly that first year with Donald 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.640 Mitchell where we said, okay, you know our goal for 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.359 the season was to you know, make the playoffs, potentially 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.760 get home court, but now we feel like we can 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.960 actually win around So they've come up short of kind 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.240 of those escalated expectations that we've had. 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:44.040 But this is the. 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.520 First time where we came into a season saying we 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:48.080 think that this is a team that's going to make 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.600 the conference finals. Anything less than that is going to 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.360 be a failure. And I think, you know, all the 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.960 contacts aside, I think that that's what the season was 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.600 ultimately right, Like the regular season was success, It's why 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.800 I compartmentalize the two. But they failed to come up 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.440 to the level of their postseason goals. And I agree 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.120 with what Kenny Atkinson said before this game. I think 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.000 it was exactly the same kind of thing that we 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:14.880 were trying to say on the last podcast, which is 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.760 injuries were obviously a factor, but I think they had 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.000 enough to win this series. I think if this team 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.120 was fully healthy, it would have been It probably would 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.760 have been enough to cover up some of the bad 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:28.560 habits that we saw in this series. I think some 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.800 of the issues that we've seen from the Cavs, I 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.039 think they would have been able to out talent a 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:34.880 lot of that, and I think it would have changed 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.520 the complexion of the series. You know, you could sit 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.279 here and say, well, you know, the calls go differently 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.800 in game two. If the last two minutes is called properly, 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.320 you know you're in a two to two situation and 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.960 you feel better about it. I think they had enough 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.600 to win this series with who is available in the 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.120 state that they were available. It just reduced their margin 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.520 of error down to a level where some of the 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.359 mental mistakes, some of you know, those demon in some 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.040 of the issues that they've had in the past, came 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.919 bubbling up to the surface and it wasn't problems that 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.560 they could just out talent and overcome that way. So 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.440 I think that in some ways that makes this a 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.600 more informative series than it otherwise would have been, and 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.000 I think there is a lot of lessons to learn from. 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:24.279 This doesn't make it any easier, though, Like I understand 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.080 how people react in this situation, right like people are 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.160 going to lash out. You know, I look at some 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:35.400 prominent voices that have been vocal about the calves, and 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:37.680 I could have told you what their takeaway from this 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:39.800 game was going to be before the game even occurred, 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.039 before the series even occurred. If the Calves came up 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.800 short of expectations, like everyone's going to default to their priors, 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.800 and you know, my instinct is to not lash out 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.240 the team. It's to lash out at the people that 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.839 I disagree with. But none of that's healthy, right We're 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.800 all looking to redirect our anger and our frustration in 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.960 some other direction, and you know it's not healthy. But 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.920 I empathize with the fans, right, Like, this was a 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.159 lot of fun. This team gave you a lot of 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.160 reasons to believe and coming up short just things. 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:14.880 Yeah, I mean, and I really do think a lot 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.600 of uh not to go like full armchair psychologists here. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.400 I do think a lot of the mad on the 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:26.720 timeline right now is finley disguised sad, you know, I think, 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.560 and I think that's always sometimes I. 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:31.760 Just wish very closely related. 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.240 I just wish fans could kind of know, like a 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.320 little bit better, like what their feelings are, and like, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.640 you know, I think I and you know, that's just 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.400 part of it. And it's not like I didn't get 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.840 pissy during this series myself. You know, there's so many 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:56.200 things that I kind of keep going back to in 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.360 terms of what this team needs to take away and 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.960 I just think it's again, it's getting dragged into someone 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:10.760 else's style. Yeah, and I don't I'm not sure what 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:16.480 the answer is there, dude, especially with and I think, 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.559 you know, we have all off season to talk about 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.640 the changes that gain and cannot be made. But like, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.440 you know, I don't know how you get past you know, 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:33.120 you start the third quarter so crisp, so sharp, and 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.120 then you just stop playing basketball. Yeah, you know. And 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:42.440 I know Indiana like cranked the pressure up, but I mean, 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:47.000 and I know that Darius could not move and it 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.000 got worse and worse over the course of the game 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.280 in a way that was really really hard to watch. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:53.680 Yeah, and I know. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.560 That Donovan got you know, I either stepped on or 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.200 need a knee or something like that on that three 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.720 and and he had a he couldn't move that whole 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.680 quarter either. But it was the lack of commitment to anything. 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.600 You know, we have Max left wing Iso layup on 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:15.760 Andrew nimhard like like you know, not to go full 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.840 Patrick Ewing here, but like did you practice that shot? 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:19.800 Yeah? 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.160 Like is that what part of our offense has been 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.400 Max struce isoing against the best defender on the other 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:31.200 team's team against his set defense, Like that wasn't part 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.840 of this team's brand or identity all year. It wasn't 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.040 even their identity to have Donovan or Darius Iso against 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.080 the other team's best player on offense all year. So 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.120 like you can't even just tell me, like, well, those 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.400 guys are hurting. Someone's got to do it, Like, you know, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.640 I just think their stylistic resilience is the number one 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:56.640 thing that like I thought I saw signs against Miami 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:57.839 that they were going to be able to do it, 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.520 And I just think the takeaway here is at Miami 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.160 was just disastrously bad and not even close to being 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:09.280 a playoff team, And we didn't learn anything from that series. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.440 You know, I thought we learned a couple of things 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:16.080 we didn't And until they can answer that stylistic imprint question, 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.480 I just, you know, I just don't know if there's 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:26.960 a lot of value in looking at any one individual 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.800 blame focal point. You know, Jarrett's gonna catch a lot 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.440 of hell all summer because he had two really you know, 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:41.320 non bad games, non impactful games to close the series 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:46.440 the season, while guys like Thomas Bryant are feasting. But 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.439 like you know, We've always said that, like kind of 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:54.240 a Canarian the coal mine situation with this team and 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:56.679 you know a team you know, and I go back 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.080 to the Swiss Watch analogy I've made a bunch of times. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:04.200 You know, one grain of sand just takes the second 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.800 best offense in the history of the sport in the 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.800 regular season two, Max Strus isowing Andrew Nimhart on the 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.400 wing with like eighteen seconds left on the shot clock. Yeah, 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.760 and like I just I wish I knew the answer 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:19.120 to that, but I don't right now. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:25.520 Yeah, well, I think the un fun answer because it's 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.000 kind of boring and it doesn't really say a whole 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.440 lot is when it comes to, you know, ability to 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:36.320 maintain style of play, to impose your will and all that. Like, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:38.160 I think that's something that they're either going to figure 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.880 out or they're not. Like it's ultimately going to be 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.840 something that through the experience, through you know, this failure, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:49.160 through their time together, that they eventually figure that out 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.040 or it's going to be the reason why this team 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.240 doesn't win a championship And doesn't you know, get as 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.960 far in the postseason as we want them to write, 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.760 they are going to underachieve in the postseason until that 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.120 aspect of things is figured out. And that was one 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:06.320 of the things that Kenny Atkinson talked about post game. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.080 You know, he said that what they need to get 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.200 over is that mental part of the game. He said 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.360 that the next jump, the next leap that we have 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.360 to make is that mental strength. And you know, I 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.920 think some of that comes down to chemistry and continuity, right, Like, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.640 that's one of the things of you know, when core 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.840 members of a team get to play together for an 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.719 extended period of time, you know, you can have those 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:35.920 hiccups along the way, but usually when you kind of 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.440 iron that out and you get to that level where 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.720 it's second nature, where you know where everyone's going to be, 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:46.000 you recognize when someone hasn't gone enough touches for an 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.679 extended period of time and do the right things to 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.920 continue to impose your style of play. Like usually that's 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:53.760 the kind of thing that takes time, right, Like, I 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.160 think back to you know, Yokichen, Jamal Murray, those guys 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.240 took seven years together, but before they won a championship. 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.680 You know, uh, Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, you know, 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.640 both of them were kind of born on third base 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.000 to some extent being drafted to an Eastern Conference final team. 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.480 But even with that, you know, it took them six 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.319 years to get over the hump. That doesn't mean it's 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.319 going to happen for this team, but I think that 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.520 that is in fact the next step. Right, Like we 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.520 you are able to bank on some you know, physical 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.120 maturity and development, particularly when it comes to guys like 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.200 Darius Garland and Evan Mobley who aren't in their primes yet. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.560 But I think as a collective, they need to get 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.920 over that hump. And that's one of the things, honestly, 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.440 before we continue on with the Cavs, we need to 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.320 credit the Indiana Pacers for that. They really did impose 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.000 their style of play. They imposed you know, you felt 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.280 like it was an Indiana Pacers game out there. 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.160 And you know in every playoff series of the of 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:55.920 the Halliburton era, they've done this. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.400 Yeah, they know who they are as a team. They 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.600 stick with that style of play. Even if you get 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.440 them out of that style of play for five six minutes, 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.520 they are going to revert back to it. Right, Like 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.560 it's water finding its level right anytime the the you know, 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.160 the the boat gets rocked, that water is going to 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.080 level out and they are going to be playing Indiana 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.880 Pacers basketball. And like I said, even with all the injuries, 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.400 I think the Cavs had enough, and the way that 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.719 the Indiana Pacers played ensured that it wasn't enough, and 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:28.120 they need to be credited for that. 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.000 Yeah, I mean, I just I'm sorry. I don't think 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.720 this Indie team is more talented. I think they have 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.560 players who are very talented. I think this was a 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.200 tough matchup for the Cavs because of all the there 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.080 you know, all their pressure they put on you at 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:49.120 the point of attack defensively, because of their five out. 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.280 Offense, which I think was a big part of the 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.000 whole Jared thing, to be honest. And when we've seen 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.480 him struggle, it's when a team's going five out and 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.640 he's been nasa to switch and guard point guards and 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.840 be taken away from the basket. Usually that's when you 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.640 start to see, oh the rebounds dropped. Well, he's also 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.360 standing out of three point line for a lot of 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:10.720 the game. 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:15.800 Yep. But like you know, I mean, Thomas Bryant killed 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.240 them in this series. Obi Topping killed them in the series. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.720 Calves didn't have any of that you know, and I 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:29.480 don't think that's because INDI's bench or deep or mid 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.560 you know, middle class of their rotation are so much 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.520 more talented than the Calves. I think it's like the 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:38.560 inverse of the canary in the coal mine. Like Indiana 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:44.400 Pacer basketball does what the Calves Calves basketball did in 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.560 the regular season, which is makes things easy. Think about 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.600 how many times we said over the regular season about 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.960 you know, Okoro having good stretches, Wait, having good stretches, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.520 you know, Jerome going nuts, and and you know what 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.400 did I say over and over and over again. I said, 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.040 It's easy to play Calves basketball right now. It's not 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:10.040 hard to be a Cleveland Cavalier. And sure looked hard 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.280 in the series, and for the Pacers it just felt 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:18.240 you know, Obi Toppins getting to do Doctor j scooped 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:24.640 layups and hell right now amazing. And you know, everyone 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.600 up and down just seemed so comfortable in what their 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:33.000 job was for so much of the series. And I 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.560 do think that should be a real like wake up 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.280 call for this team, because again it's not you know, 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.760 I think even me and you are going to look 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.080 at this and go, we need more, we need better 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:50.680 and it's a natural reaction. But it's like just play better. 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.200 Like sometimes it's that simple. I don't think the Calves 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.960 played more than one. You know, how many good quarters 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.760 of basketball did the Calves play in this series? Not enough? 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:01.560 Yeah? 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.640 You know, uh, you know how committed were they to 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:10.640 who they were? Not enough? And like that is where 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.400 I just kind of like stall out in trying to 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.200 figure out where to go because it's like, you had 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.640 enough talent, you had the coach of the year, you 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:25.720 didn't have health, which sucks, but like you didn't play 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:30.160 well yep. And some of that is just like shooting. 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.480 I mean, I'm i They're gonna be under thirty percent 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.440 on wide open threes for the series. 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:37.680 Yeah, without a doubt. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.680 You know, it was at twenty prior to this game. 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.840 I can almost guarantee you that that went down tonight. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.040 Yeah. So and so like I don't know, man, Like 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.640 I don't know what you do with uh we we 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.080 are a team of good shooters that can't shoot in 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.640 the playoffs. Like some of this stuff is just you know, 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.960 we're at the hard problem to solve portion you know, 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.640 of the of the of the team life cycle, it's 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.720 not really that hard. To be in a rebuild, you 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.480 take swings on young players, you you try to find 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.960 an identity. It's hard to get out of a rebuild, 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.439 but the choice that individual choices are easy. You take on. 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.800 You win as many trades as you can get, as 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.960 you can win. You leverage your position as a team 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:32.399 that's not a competitive contender to find all these incremental moves. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:34.919 But like, we're at the stage where I'm like, I 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.119 don't know what you're supposed to do. I don't I 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.320 don't see the structural change because I really do think 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:44.840 at the end of the day, and I'm it's the 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.240 least satisfying thing for a podcaster who has to talk 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.080 all summer to say, which is I think they just 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.880 need to play better. Yeah, and and until they do, 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.560 I just I don't know where to go with that. Yeah. 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:04.800 It comes down to channeling that experience challenge, you know, 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.639 finding the mental toughness within this failure, within what happened 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.800 this season, you know, the self reflection and doing what. 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:14.520 Needs to be done. 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.440 And that's not something that's easy to talk about, right, 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.160 Like you could sit here and say, oh, look look 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.000 how they shot from the free throw line. They need 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.320 to shoot five thousand free throws a day, and that's what's. 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:25.679 Going to do it. 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.000 Like, you know, you can kind of say that stuff 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.120 to make yourself feel better, but it really, as Kenny said, 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.440 it comes down to that mental aspect of the game. 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.480 It comes down to getting over that hump to to 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.440 find ways to be more resilient where you know, injuries 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.360 aren't taking them out to the same extent that they are. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.600 And you know, some of this is bad luck, right, Like, 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.520 it sucks that it all hit. At the same time, 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.600 it sucks that, you know, you look at what the 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.280 Indiana Pacers were able to do physically. This is different 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.439 than the last couple of years. You know, like people 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.720 just see the word physicality, they're like, oh, you know, 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.640 same Calves, blah blah blah. This is completely different. Four 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.760 out of five games in this series, the Calves absolutely 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.520 dominant dominated Indy on the offensive glass and points in 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.639 the paint. That's that's what the issue was for the 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.439 most part. Yeah, that's what the Calves issue was in 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.919 some of these past series, right Like that's where they 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.280 got beat up by the Knicks. That's you know, that 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.880 was the discussion against the Orlando Magic Boston that wasn't 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.439 the case because it was you know, it was just 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:35.520 you know gang, yeah, like, you know, that's not what 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.399 it's been. This was completely different. Indy was giving you 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:43.439 pressure and physicality on the perimeter. They recognized that the 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.840 Calves guards were limited. Mitchell was playing through you know, 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.800 that ankle and calf. Throughout this entire series, he's been 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.959 dealing with it. You know, it's some form of something, 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.239 you know, since the beginning of March. So we're at 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.200 two and a half months now of you know, Mitchell 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.040 struggling uh physically and and finding ways to be effective. 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.000 But between Mitchell being limited, between Darius being limited, and 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.160 Ty just not being able to turn the corner, versus 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.200 that pressure at all, it completely changed the complexion of 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:15.240 the Calves offense. And you know, one of the ways 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.679 to break that is playing through the bigs. That's what 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.760 we talked about on the last podcast. That's how the 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.600 Cavs started this game. To their credit, they were using 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.600 Evan Mobley and Jared Allen as the roleman and not 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.520 only were they scoring individually, it was generating clean looks. 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.400 But Indy started taking that away. They started cheating off 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.560 of Mitchell and Garland, at times they were treating them 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.120 like Isaac Okoro out there, where they were basically daring 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.760 them to shoot because everything that those guys were thrown 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.560 up was coming up short. And you know, that's one 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.600 of those things where you know, I can sit here 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.440 and I still think that there were ways to get 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.720 the Bigs involved. I think you could have continued to 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.200 find ways to get them the ball downhill. I think 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.240 they went away from it. I would have liked to 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.679 see them try and fail more than they did with 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.960 what ind was doing, you know, defensively. But at the 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:09.520 same time, a big part of this equation is they 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.040 were able to cheat off two of the most dynamic 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:14.840 guards in the NBA, one of the best backcourts in 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.480 the NBA. And you know Darius is out there shooting, 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.960 what did he shoot? Four sixteen, Mitchell eight of twenty five. 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:24.879 Neither of them could hit from three. That's going to 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.880 mess up your spacing. I'm sorry, it just is. That's 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.320 going to be part of the equation here. So I 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.960 still think that what they did going away from the 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:39.080 bigs is alarming. You know, last year or you know, 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.240 coming into training camp, Kenny apparently had you know, a 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:44.600 reduced shot clock where they were playing with an eighteen 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.879 second shot clock, and training camp to make sure that 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:50.280 they were getting to their sets quicker, that they played 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.200 with pace and tempo. The rule this year going into 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.400 training camp is nobody gets to take a shot until 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.399 Evan Mobley's touched the basketball at least once. That should 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:02.280 be the training camp philosophy. But I do think when 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:06.560 you are diagnosing what went wrong here, the limited physical 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.080 state that Donnald Mitchell and Darius Garland were in has 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.040