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Speaker 1: Every champion and carry champions, to be a champion of

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Speaker 1: Champion and carry Champion and carry Champion, the Champion, and

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Speaker 1: carry Chappion and carry Chappion, Radius, raiders and sports and

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Speaker 1: then the tam making naked weirder in the world. With

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Speaker 1: vulnerable considered, we come and remove the vail from entertainment elite.

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Speaker 1: It's a difference between what it's real and with the

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Speaker 1: public season. So here's your favorite celebrities behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: It's refreshing up. Then the whole story specific life ought

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Speaker 1: to rend events to shake the person that you carry

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Speaker 1: Yatta Champion and carry Champion the girl you didn't. It's

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Speaker 1: the greatest in sports and entertainment connected with every champion

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Speaker 1: and carry champions to be a champion, the Champion, they

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Speaker 1: carry Champion, they glad it chat the Champion, they carry

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Speaker 1: Champion and carry Champion, Raders, raiders and sports and entertain

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Speaker 1: aking Naked War. I feel like it's been a long

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Speaker 1: time since I was able to sit and talk with

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Speaker 1: you guys. We tape some episodes ahead of time, which

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Speaker 1: you should not tell anybody, but I was gone covering

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Speaker 1: the Olympics. I did an Olympics update, but this is

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Speaker 1: the first time in a while I've been able to

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Speaker 1: just sit with John and see how you're doing. Today's

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Speaker 1: podcast is interesting because several things have happened. I interviewed

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Speaker 1: Richard Jefferson probably I want to say late July. Maybe, no,

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Speaker 1: maybe early July. I mean, I'm putting this all out

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Speaker 1: here so you you get the context. Not only did

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Speaker 1: we work together at ESPN, but we um also have

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Speaker 1: done some things together afterwards. I worked with him most

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Speaker 1: recently on the Sports Illustrated Awards last year, which was great,

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Speaker 1: and I've just watched him blossom as an analyst, as

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Speaker 1: a host. Um he really when people graduate, excuse me,

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Speaker 1: you know, we say graduate, but when these athletes leave

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Speaker 1: the pros and they come into our world, if you will,

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Speaker 1: as broadcasters, as analysts, it's interesting to see how they

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Speaker 1: adjust and how they figure it out. And Richard really

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Speaker 1: has figured it out. What I find interesting about Richard

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Speaker 1: so many things, but from afar, I definitely UM judged him.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, and I think that's such a lazy,

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Speaker 1: lazy attitude. People judge me all the time, We judge people.

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Speaker 1: It's so lazy to put people in a box so

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Speaker 1: that we don't have to figure them out because it's

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Speaker 1: less for us to work at UM. And Richard talks

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Speaker 1: about this throughout this entire podcast. There's a theme Richard

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Speaker 1: has said, Um, black folks have always questioned his blackness.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting as an NBA player, he is

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Speaker 1: being questioned about his blackness. And there are reasons why. Right,

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Speaker 1: it could be Um, how he carries himself, it could

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Speaker 1: be the way in which he communicates, not even could

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Speaker 1: be probably is because I was judging him too. UM.

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Speaker 1: And it's also you know, people try to, you know,

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Speaker 1: get under the hood of who you are, and then

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Speaker 1: they hear you talking and you you you don't have

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Speaker 1: the same thought process and sometimes that turns people off.

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Speaker 1: So and I'm namely speaking about Richard in the sense

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Speaker 1: that as a black man, he feels like people are

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Speaker 1: questioning his blackness. And I've had this topic come up

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Speaker 1: before on Naked UM. And I think any any personal

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Speaker 1: color who has achieved any level of success is consistently

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Speaker 1: called something other than black by some black people because

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Speaker 1: they feel like they aren't, you know, down with the

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Speaker 1: you know, the un unspoken rules of blackness. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I I think of this and I go, well, what

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Speaker 1: aren't we down with and today's day and age, especially

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Speaker 1: with social media, if you don't agree with black people

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Speaker 1: in certain cases, you immediately be called They call you

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Speaker 1: a cone, you know, if you go against black Twitter,

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Speaker 1: cone cone. And so I think what Richard has been

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Speaker 1: trying to express over the years is that he grew

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Speaker 1: up in the hood. He knows about hard times, but

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Speaker 1: he also knows that by watching his mother and his stepfather, um,

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Speaker 1: he also knows that you can over come your circumstances

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Speaker 1: by hard work. And when you live that life and

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Speaker 1: when you've been in that life, it's hard to for

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Speaker 1: him complain when he knows that hard work can change

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Speaker 1: your life. And yes, I I think he does see

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Speaker 1: both sides. But I did ask him, I think you're

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Speaker 1: hard on black folks, because sometimes that's the case, we're

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Speaker 1: hard on each other. And Richard explains, you know, oftentimes eloquently,

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Speaker 1: oftentimes I doubt him. So if you're listening, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know Richard, and I'm not to sit up

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Speaker 1: here and bash him. I want you to listen to

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Speaker 1: him because I think, honestly, he's a great guy and

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Speaker 1: he has a great heart and What he's trying to

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Speaker 1: explain is his experience and his conditioning and what he

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Speaker 1: has come in contact with and what he has dealt

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Speaker 1: with over the years. Sometimes we just don't let people

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Speaker 1: have their own stories. We have to infiltrate their stories

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Speaker 1: with our thoughts and our opinions. And so I want

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Speaker 1: you to sit back, relax and listen to Richard Um.

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Speaker 1: The first thing that we got into about too much

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Speaker 1: provocation was, you know, tell me about yourself. How'd you

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Speaker 1: grow up? I was born in nineteen eighty Los Angeles, California.

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Speaker 1: My dad went to Morningside High School in Inglewood. My

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Speaker 1: grandmother still lives in Englewood. My mom went to Dorsey

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Speaker 1: High School, UH in south central l A. So we

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Speaker 1: we grew up in the jungles of l A. Boys

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Speaker 1: in the hood, minutes of society, like all the movies,

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Speaker 1: all the things, um, you know. And I was born

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty at the beginning of like the crack epidemic,

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Speaker 1: which you know affected my family. My dad, you know,

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Speaker 1: uh struggled with drug and alcohol abuse for you know,

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Speaker 1: probably the next thirty years of my life. But you know,

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Speaker 1: grew up in l A and then in n um.

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Speaker 1: I remember my mom vividly saying that she remember hearing

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Speaker 1: a story about you know, one in three. You know,

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Speaker 1: black males are not going to make it. Now. I'm

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Speaker 1: the youngest of three boys, and so my mom was like, yep,

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Speaker 1: it's time to go. And so we moved with the church.

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Speaker 1: There was about eight families from a church, uh, and

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Speaker 1: we all moved to Phoenix, Arizona to try and get

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Speaker 1: away from what was going on in south central l A.

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Speaker 1: At the time. That was kind of, you know, my

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Speaker 1: get out of l A. Uh. And really, I would say,

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Speaker 1: like my life path kind of started once I moved

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Speaker 1: to Phoenix and my mom got us out of that area.

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Speaker 1: When people find out about my background, you know, they

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Speaker 1: always assumed that I was like Carlton from Fresh Prince

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Speaker 1: of Lair when I was closer to Will Smith. So

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Speaker 1: you'll hear often he is referring to Will Smith, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of funny to me. I don't know why

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Speaker 1: I didn't say, why do you keep referring to Will Smith?

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Speaker 1: Because Will don't know nothing about no struggle Nomo. I

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Speaker 1: guess you don't either. I don't know about the Fresh

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Speaker 1: Prince of bel Air. I gotta figure all that out.

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Speaker 1: Um okay anyway. Nevertheless, though, Richard makes a really good

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Speaker 1: point and he says that, and I know this to

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Speaker 1: be true through when you grow up in a diverse

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Speaker 1: neighborhood or a neighborhood where you're one of a few

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Speaker 1: black people, you learn how to relate UM. I sometimes

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Speaker 1: say it's a chameleon. You blend in um it. It

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Speaker 1: becomes a skill set that I like to refer to

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Speaker 1: as adaptability. Now, the problem here is, um it's tricky

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Speaker 1: because it really is dependent upon who is looking at you.

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Speaker 1: I look at Richard, and I see what he's gone through,

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Speaker 1: and I understand what he's trying to say because I've

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Speaker 1: been there. But there's also a point in time when you,

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Speaker 1: as a black person, must know who you are in

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Speaker 1: spite of what every single person says. When you are uh,

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Speaker 1: when you speak a certain way, when you talk a

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Speaker 1: certain way, when your interests are a broader spectrum. A

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Speaker 1: lot of times, as African American males, people will assume

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Speaker 1: a certain something about you. Now, I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: put words in other people's mouths, but it's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't see you as black, or or you talk

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Speaker 1: this way, and you're just like, well, well, inadvertently, what

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Speaker 1: you're doing in trying to give me a compliment that

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Speaker 1: you're really insulting everyone in my race by doing that.

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Speaker 1: You're not really you don't know that you're doing that,

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Speaker 1: but if you really break down the levels, which I

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Speaker 1: just don't have the time or the effort to do

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Speaker 1: it anymore. But I've had to express that to my

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Speaker 1: friends growing up, like, oh, you're not black. I don't

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Speaker 1: see you as black. And I was like, well, you

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Speaker 1: should see me that way just because we live in

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Speaker 1: the same neighborhood, just because we eat at the same restaurants.

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Speaker 1: Like when I get pulled over by the cops or

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Speaker 1: when something goes wrong, they don't view me as as

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Speaker 1: Richard my friend. They view me as you know, a

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Speaker 1: threat at times. And it's and it's more of because

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Speaker 1: you and you feel uh acceptance from both sides, right

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Speaker 1: of the spectrum. It doesn't matter. If you're in a

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Speaker 1: room with a ton of white people, you know how

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Speaker 1: to act and talk, and if you're in a room

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Speaker 1: with a ton of black people, you know how to

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Speaker 1: act and talk. I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona, on

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Speaker 1: the west side of Glendale. You put me in a

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Speaker 1: room with a bunch of Mexicans. I know how to

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Speaker 1: act because my best friends growing up on the west

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Speaker 1: side of Glendale are the west side of Phoenix, Glyndelle, Arizona.

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Speaker 1: Best friends were Anthony Fernandez, Angelo a Mayo, like like

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Speaker 1: all my boys. So like I was eating, you know,

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Speaker 1: authentic Mexican food like I was, you know, listening to

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Speaker 1: the same music because that's kind of where I grew up. Um,

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Speaker 1: we do we we often do. That is where you're

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Speaker 1: not necessarily looking for acceptance, but you're you're you're relating.

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Speaker 1: Will Smith sid Will Will Smith said something and he

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Speaker 1: goes he had a similar similar kind of upbringing where

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Speaker 1: it was like he would be in certain areas but

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Speaker 1: like he had friends on all day. He's like, I

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Speaker 1: learned how to make white people laugh. I learned how

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Speaker 1: to make black people laugh because they laugh at different things,

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Speaker 1: and you can use things that at times you might

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Speaker 1: feel insecure about, right because I ain't white, But like

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Speaker 1: black people might look at you like, well, you don't

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Speaker 1: relate to the struggle. So you're like, I don't relate

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Speaker 1: to the struggle. My dad smoke crack for thirty years

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Speaker 1: and my mom was on welfare most of the time

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Speaker 1: growing up. My dad was shot and killed in Compton, California,

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Speaker 1: in a drive by How much more of the struggle

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Speaker 1: you want me to relate to? Here's what's interesting about

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Speaker 1: Richard giving, you know, the resume of what he's been

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Speaker 1: through as a black person, or sometimes I guess there

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Speaker 1: was a time in his life he felt as if

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Speaker 1: he had to give his resume to show I am black,

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Speaker 1: I've been through that, my father was on crack. He

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Speaker 1: finds himself in this really weird position, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know if anybody can relate. But while he has to

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Speaker 1: consistently defined how black he is or how he knows

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Speaker 1: about the struggle, there is the other side of his

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Speaker 1: life where his mother and his stepdad worked so hard

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Speaker 1: to get them into a decent environment and a decent

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Speaker 1: place to live. They then they then realized they're being

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Speaker 1: you know, or he is being teased because he doesn't

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Speaker 1: have enough, He isn't rich enough, he isn't fitting in

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Speaker 1: per se. The economy of fighting your way through both

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Speaker 1: worlds must take its toll, you know. So my mom

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Speaker 1: when we first moved to Phoenix, and my mom quick backstory.

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Speaker 1: My mom moves to Philadelphia, she marries her childhood sweetheart.

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Speaker 1: That's my stepdad for the next thirty years until he

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Speaker 1: passed away recently. But you know that that that's that's

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Speaker 1: my father. But I think where I realized like I

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Speaker 1: was a little different is that my parents worked really

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Speaker 1: really hard so that we didn't have to live in

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Speaker 1: that area, but we had the least in the area,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense, right. It's like, yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: my mom was like, hey, you we could drive a

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Speaker 1: nice car. You guys can have nicer clothes, but we're

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Speaker 1: going to have to live in a not necessarily so

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Speaker 1: nice area. Or we can have beaters and take the

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Speaker 1: bus to school and ride bikes to work, but we're

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Speaker 1: going to live in a nicer area. My parents chose that,

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Speaker 1: and so for me growing up in those areas, I

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Speaker 1: didn't have much other than athleticism, right, So it was

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Speaker 1: like that was the one thing. It's like, yeah, my

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Speaker 1: clothes don't fit. Yeah, my my my clothes is dirty

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Speaker 1: and raggedy. Yeah, you know, I might not always have

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Speaker 1: money for lunch, but once we get there, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is my chance for vengeance. So that's where the chip

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Speaker 1: and my shoulder came from. So before we get into

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Speaker 1: the chip on his shoulder in the NBA, Richard went

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Speaker 1: to the University of Arizona. Then he went pro in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, right in overall pick I believe, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was the thirteenth overall pick in the very first round,

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Speaker 1: obviously for the New Jersey Nets now Brooklyn Nets. And

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Speaker 1: we'll get into that. And Richards has had a pretty

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Speaker 1: impressive career. Um, he won a chip, he became an

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Speaker 1: NBA champion in with the Calves. He retired two years

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Speaker 1: later and now he's doing his TV thing. And I'll

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Speaker 1: admit the very first time I'm I met Richard, and

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Speaker 1: whether that was in person or maybe it was as

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Speaker 1: they were making that one for the Chip, I did

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Speaker 1: judge him. He explains how that happens all the time,

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Speaker 1: especially in the league because on my first six years,

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Speaker 1: my first six years in the league, I was with

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Speaker 1: one team. I was with, you know, the now Brooklyn Nets.

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Speaker 1: But as I got older and I started to go,

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Speaker 1: like one year in Utah, one year here, one year there,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden people got to know me. And

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Speaker 1: if I had a dollar for every new teammate that

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Speaker 1: got that I was like, I would have never guessed

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Speaker 1: that you were this way right, like, like you know,

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Speaker 1: because it's like so many times our interviews at athletes,

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Speaker 1: it's you know this, and hey, these are the answers,

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Speaker 1: and then you go about your business. I don't talk

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Speaker 1: a lot on the court, I don't hang out with

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Speaker 1: a ton of NBA players, But once you got into

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Speaker 1: the locker room and I think you see it. What

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Speaker 1: you see is you you follow me, and you've been

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Speaker 1: there since the beginning of my career ESPN. I'm very sarcastic,

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Speaker 1: I'm very joking. I'm very outgoing, a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a talker. But everybody was like the fans are like

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Speaker 1: the fans, and people were like, we had no idea

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Speaker 1: you were like this. But like every teammate that I

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Speaker 1: ever had was like, oh yeah, that's Richard, like seven NonStop.

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Speaker 1: He can't even control it. You just got to learn

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Speaker 1: to deal with it. Then it becomes funny. So I

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Speaker 1: think me trying to um prove myself, I think it's

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Speaker 1: more of like you get comfortable in your own skin

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Speaker 1: because you start to realize that, like it's not always

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Speaker 1: about trying to keep up with people are what people's

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Speaker 1: perceptions are of you. It makes you a little bit

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Speaker 1: more comfortable in just being you. Your perceptions of me

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Speaker 1: are not my responsibility. Hey, everybody, stick around. We gotta

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Speaker 1: pay some bills. So thank you so much for hanging

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Speaker 1: out with us for this entire episode. When we come

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Speaker 1: back more with Richard Jefferson, Every champion and carry champion

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Speaker 1: is to be a champion, a champion and carry champion,

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Speaker 1: and carry chapion Champion and carry Chappion and carry Chappi

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Speaker 1: Boston and the Taming Cannake work Cheppion. They carry Cheppion Champion,

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Speaker 1: they carry Cheppion Chepi, and they carry Chappion. They ca Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to this episode with Richard Jefferson. My friend,

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Speaker 1: let's get into it because he's quickly I know you've

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Speaker 1: noticed quickly turned into the race analysts as opposed to

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Speaker 1: just the sports analysts. But it's education. Pay attention. So

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Speaker 1: here's what's interesting. And look, this is something that is

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Speaker 1: cultural and and maybe if you are not black on

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Speaker 1: the outside looking in, you can relate to this, but

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Speaker 1: I think you can. I think every minority group can

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Speaker 1: relate to this um not being considered authentically black, and

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Speaker 1: you go through your whole life trying to fit in,

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Speaker 1: but never really just fitting in. You just have been.

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Speaker 1: You're making it through, You're surviving. UM. And Richard has evolved. UM.

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Speaker 1: He's very comfortable and he knows how people see him

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Speaker 1: and perceive him. And I and I felt like, especially

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Speaker 1: with me, even when I met him before this podcast

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Speaker 1: and we had a moment to sit and talk, I

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Speaker 1: felt as if he had to lead with the fact

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Speaker 1: that you look, I'm black, I'm not white. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a black boy acting white, so don't treat me as such.

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Speaker 1: And I feel as if people do that. I've done that.

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Speaker 1: People have done that because they may feel as if

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Speaker 1: they're not accepted. And now now, at this point in

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Speaker 1: his life, I had to ask him, like, God, this conversation, UM,

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Speaker 1: you're so intense, and you're so passionate and so eloquent,

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Speaker 1: and you've done a lot of research about you know

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Speaker 1: what it means to be this type of man in

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Speaker 1: a black and white world. Are you comfortable? Richard? That

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Speaker 1: was my question. That's simple. Are you comfortable? I'm very

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Speaker 1: very comfortable, right, because once you've already gone through it, right,

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Speaker 1: you've already gone through it. Your whole life. You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, once you've already done it. I've

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Speaker 1: often learned that like those people like, they don't affect

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Speaker 1: my bank account, they don't affect my happiness. I could

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Speaker 1: have all the acceptance in the world from other people.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that matters to me is what I

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Speaker 1: enjoy doing, where I like to be, where I like

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Speaker 1: to hang out, who I associate with, because that's all

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Speaker 1: that matters. And so I think the it shaped me

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Speaker 1: more and making me more comfortable and doing doing me

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Speaker 1: doing like what I enjoy versus there are people that

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Speaker 1: are constantly looking for acceptance. There are people and you

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Speaker 1: know this, you do you know this. You've seen whether

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Speaker 1: it's whether it's black people trying to act a hoity

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Speaker 1: toity and you'd be like, yo, that's not you. Or

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Speaker 1: you've seen black people trying to act super super ghetto,

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Speaker 1: trying to hang out on the block, trying to like

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Speaker 1: be cool, and you're like that ain't you either, You

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And it's like, to me, it's

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Speaker 1: like the more authentic you are with who you are

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Speaker 1: versus trying to fit into a group, those are the

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Speaker 1: stronger people. I look at it as like a tool belt. Right.

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Speaker 1: I can sit and have a conversation in one group,

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Speaker 1: I can sit and have a conversation in another group.

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Speaker 1: I don't say that I feel more calm. There's some

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Speaker 1: people that I just feel more comfortable around black people.

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Speaker 1: There are some people I only feel more comfortable. And

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Speaker 1: this is this is around. This is also across sexual

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Speaker 1: orientations or I feel more comfortable around gays and I

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Speaker 1: do straight people, And like, these are conversations that go on. Um,

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Speaker 1: one thing that you know. It takes me back to

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite like movie scenes is an eight

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Speaker 1: mile where Eminem is going at the dude and he

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Speaker 1: was just like, yeah, Clarence, he comes from a real

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Speaker 1: nice family and he just goes off on the dude

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Speaker 1: because he's like, yo, he's not one of us. He's

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Speaker 1: not like us. And it's like, wait, just because he

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Speaker 1: comes from a nice family, just because he comes from

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Speaker 1: this does n't not make him a part of the culture,

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Speaker 1: doesn't make him any different. So not only is Rich comfortable, Um,

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Speaker 1: there there was a time in his life and I

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Speaker 1: think we all have experienced this. I know how I have.

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Speaker 1: I can remember the moment and you guys, bear with me.

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Speaker 1: I can remember the moment when I quote unquote grew

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Speaker 1: up in the hood. Right. I'm just gonna give you

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Speaker 1: the story that you've heard over and over again, that

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Speaker 1: so many people tell, but it's true. You know, you

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Speaker 1: you grow up in the hood or are not so

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Speaker 1: desirable neighborhood not necessarily the hood, and you and you

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Speaker 1: know the moment when you're going to be different from

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Speaker 1: everybody year around. You remember that moment like it was

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Speaker 1: yesterday for me. It was a summer night and I

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Speaker 1: was at my grandmother's house. I was supposed to be

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Speaker 1: home when the street lights came on, and I was

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Speaker 1: out being fast, hanging out with some neighborhood girls, and

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Speaker 1: they were just hanging with some boys, and all of

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Speaker 1: it felt wrong. I was like, these boys are older

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Speaker 1: than us, I am not supposed to be here. What

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Speaker 1: is going on? I don't like it. And I just

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Speaker 1: turned around and left. And I remember them making fun

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Speaker 1: of me and calling me scary and being like, can

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Speaker 1: you believe her, she's so scary, she's so jerry, And

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking that's my choice. But I was strong

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Speaker 1: enough in that moment, as simple as it may sound

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Speaker 1: right now, thinking about it, because you know, when you're

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Speaker 1: a kid, peer pressure is a big deal. But I

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Speaker 1: was strong enough in that moment to be like, something

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Speaker 1: about this doesn't feel right. I don't need to be

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Speaker 1: hanging out really with some grown boys and I'm a

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Speaker 1: little girl. None of this feels right, and I left.

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Speaker 1: Richard talks about that moment, not necessarily him hanging out

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Speaker 1: lit older boys, but he talks about forgive me, Richard.

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Speaker 1: He talks about that moment where he knew that he

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Speaker 1: was just going to make different choices my mom. Right now,

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Speaker 1: I had my dad struggle with drug abuse, my one

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Speaker 1: brother struggle with drug abuse. He was in and out

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Speaker 1: of prison, and he's only eighteen months older than me.

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Speaker 1: So it was very easy for me to choose that

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Speaker 1: route because it was my next closest brother. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm fifteen, he's seventeen. Like we could have been. I

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Speaker 1: could have been running the streets with him. He saw

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Speaker 1: me play when I was a sophomore in high school.

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Speaker 1: Now he's lived in Arizona the whole time. Right now,

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Speaker 1: he's in and out of juvenile hale prison, stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But he saw me play when I was a sophomore

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Speaker 1: in high school. So I was fourteen fifteen. He did

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Speaker 1: not see me play again in person. So I was

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Speaker 1: a junior in college, right, so like and it was

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Speaker 1: like I remember having to go visit him in prison,

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Speaker 1: and I remember it was like I was wearing all

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Speaker 1: blue and that's the same the prison guards that they

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Speaker 1: were wearing. And I remember there was like this big

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Speaker 1: thing when I went to leave because like these guards

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Speaker 1: tried to stop because they were like they were confused.

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Speaker 1: They just saw the prison blue and they saw some

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Speaker 1: black kid walk in the wrong direction. And I'll never

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Speaker 1: forget that. But um, it's different. But I have two

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Speaker 1: brothers that that didn't graduate high school. But my mom

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Speaker 1: used the pel grant and public service and and and

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Speaker 1: and like public uh like money and opportunities and scholarships

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Speaker 1: to go back. She graduated college when I graduated high school.

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Speaker 1: She got her masters right when I was about done

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Speaker 1: with college. And then she got her doctrine and education, right,

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Speaker 1: strong black woman, that's my mother, right, So she my mom,

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Speaker 1: my mom got her doctrine and education and started teaching

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Speaker 1: at college is in Arizona. So now look at those

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Speaker 1: two perspectives. I got one dad that struggle with drug

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Speaker 1: abuse for thirty years, and I got a mom that

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Speaker 1: went back when I was I was her youngest, but

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Speaker 1: I went back when I was in high school and

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Speaker 1: started getting her degrees. So, yes, my perspectives and our

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Speaker 1: perspectives are very different. I don't see the world the

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Speaker 1: same way my brother and my dad do. And actually

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Speaker 1: ain't my fault. I'm not one of them. I'm not

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Speaker 1: one of them. And I mean that from like not

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Speaker 1: in a black standpoints like, no, I'm not one of you,

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Speaker 1: from the sense that, like, my decisions that I make

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Speaker 1: are different, right, how I go, how I choose to

427
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: live my life, and what makes me happy. I could

428
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: have been in the car when my brother stole a car,

429
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: and I was like, this doesn't seem like a good idea.

430
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: And while which you're clearly made a decision to be different,

431
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: as he talks about he didn't want to be in

432
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: the car when his brother decided to steal a car,

433
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: you know he knew right from wrong. Um, there's a

434
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: part of me and and and you guys can weigh

435
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 1: in and tell me what you feel. There's a part

436
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 1: of me though that here's his frustration and constantly feeling

437
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: as if he has to prove something to someone. We

438
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: are the sect the group of our community that that

439
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: we see things from a different perspective, like we can

440
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: we I feel like there are certain you know, black

441
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: people that can see things from a bit of an

442
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: aerial view. And I mean and I don't mean like entertainers.

443
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: I mean based off of experience, right, based off life

444
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: experiences and life choices, where like we can look back

445
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: at people that we grew up with and they might

446
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: in a way necessarily resent us because you made it

447
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: out right, or because well, why do you think you're special?

448
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: And what do you do? Like we're one of the

449
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: few communities that will actually that will actually uplift or

450
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: that will actually I almost say tear down is not

451
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: the right word, but we'll questions people's success, right, we

452
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: don't constantly applaud that success. We don't like, you know,

453
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: there can be criticisms of like your education and how

454
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: you speak and how you go about things, making it

455
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: seem like, oh, you're not trying to be black because

456
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: you do this or you behave this way, and it's like, no,

457
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: that couldn't be any further from the truth. It looks

458
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: very what you know about that, Like that's what it

459
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: looks like. Like just like when you when when when

460
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: you're when with kids or something and you kind of

461
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: look at them like, man, you know know nothing about that.

462
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: Let's sit down. You're like, what's what you talking about? Like?

463
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: And it's not and it's and it's not in a

464
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: condescending way. It's very like are you just acting? Or

465
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: do you really you know what I'm saying? Because so

466
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: much time, like to know about a person is one

467
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: to see them as they are, but also to know

468
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: where they came from, to see them as they are. Right,

469
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: It's like you can look at me and say like, oh, well,

470
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: look at what he's done. Look at this, he's accomplished this,

471
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: he's done this. And but if you truly know my

472
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: backstory and where I came from and like forks in

473
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: the roads and decisions and things that I had to make,

474
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: you will look at me differently because that's just the truth.

475
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: And I think our culture probably more so than others, right, Like,

476
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of success stories of rednecks, no

477
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: disrespect making it out of the trailer park, like that

478
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: story ain't and there's tons of them. They don't tell

479
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: that story. That's what I'm saying, there's tons of them

480
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: where there's like the pretty girl or the guy athlete

481
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: that grew up in a trailer park. You know, it

482
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: could be a white boy that grew up in a

483
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: trailer park with not a lot and he makes it out.

484
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to hear that story. But that story is

485
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: no different than whether his parents struggle with drug abuse,

486
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: whether it was this or that, Like that story is

487
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: no different and and than our story. But they often

488
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: want to elevate those black stories of like, look, he

489
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: came from nothing and he didn't know his dad. And

490
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: it's like I don't need I don't need to elevate

491
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: those stories. I don't need to go out there and

492
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: tell the world this is my story, this is who

493
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: I am. To validate my position, So I have to

494
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: ask myself any let me even ask you, do you

495
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: think that you judge the people you know too harshly

496
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: or the culture that you think you know too harshly?

497
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: I'll ask myself and the answer quickly is yes, sometimes

498
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: I am. I'm hard on myself, so I'm definitely gonna

499
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: be hard on the people around me and sometimes the culture. Um.

500
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: But I asked Richard this question, because, as I mentioned,

501
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: I hear is frustration. But I wonder if we take

502
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: a step back and we're fair, right, fair first, because

503
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: we're all going to have our own opinions and we're

504
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: going to be subjective. We can't help it, that's just

505
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: who we are as human nature. But are we being fair?

506
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: And if you ask yourself that question before you, you know,

507
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: deliver judgment, a decision, whatever it may be. I think

508
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: you're on the right track. And so I asked Richard,

509
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: are you being too hard on the culture? His response

510
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: to me eloquent. I look at it as I would judge,

511
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: and I don't like understand the context I'm about to

512
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: get you. I will judge my family and my kids

513
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: differently than how I look at other kids behaving right.

514
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: So when I see, you know, two little kids that

515
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 1: ain't my kids, right, I'm not sitting here judging him.

516
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: I might look at my kids and say, don't you

517
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: dare act like that? Right? Or don't you know what

518
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying? So when I say that, do I unfairly

519
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: judge black people? Know? But I want to hold black

520
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: people to a high standard. I I know I've seen

521
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: decisions be made where it's you can go smoke crack

522
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: for thirty years, or you can use government assistant to

523
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: become a doctor. Which route you want to take? Now,

524
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: I know how hard it is. My mom was a

525
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: single mother on welfare. My my stepdad, who God rest

526
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: his soul, He rode a bike every single day to

527
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: fries To to be a grocer. And then he got

528
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: a manager position. So instead of bribing his bike two

529
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: miles to the local grocery to bad groceries, he had

530
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: to ride at fifteen miles. And this is in Phoenix, Arizona. Right,

531
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: So when I see that this this strong black man

532
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: is raising three kids that ain't his, and he's riding

533
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: a bicycle there and he's writing, doing all of these things,

534
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: and he goes and gets a graveyard shift to scrub floors,

535
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: I know what's capable. I don't want to hear excuses

536
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: like that, right, And it's like, I understand that your

537
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: situation can be bad. My situation was bad. I can

538
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: understand that you might know your dad or your dad

539
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: I had that same thing. Now, don't get me wrong.

540
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 1: I had basketball that saved me. I'm six seven, I'm

541
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: too or for you. I have basketball to save me.

542
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: So I'm not I don't look at it from that standpoint,

543
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: but I look at it from my mother's standpoint is

544
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: like she used public service to go back and get degrees.

545
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: I look at it from my stepfather's pen standpoint is

546
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: like even my own brother like, oh, I ain't got

547
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: a car and I can't get a job, and then

548
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: after I've done not for him. But I'm like, dude,

549
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: the example that was set for us. You saw Dad

550
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: ride a bike to feed us. You saw Dad have

551
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: to do all these things to feed us. And so

552
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: for me, it was always like those are the examples

553
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: that were set for me coming from nothing and working

554
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: to something. And I'm not even talking about basketball. So

555
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: when I judge people, I judge people on like things

556
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: can be done. My examples, my examples personally, My examples

557
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: personally are what motivated me. My dad never missed a

558
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: day of work, right, never miss a day of work,

559
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 1: like it didn't whatever. So for me, when it came

560
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: to playing a basketball game, I'd have to be injured

561
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: before I missed a game, like I'm gonna go play.

562
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: And so I think that that's where the responsibility comes

563
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: in of how can you go be an example for

564
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: certain people. Now it could be my nieces and nephews,

565
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: it can be it can be people that are in

566
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: my community, especially like where I grew up that I

567
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: still have a connection to. But I don't judge people

568
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: that don't have the same experiences. But I also know

569
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: that my mom, when she was living in south central

570
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: l A. She didn't have a ton of the examples

571
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: of like, oh, you want to go be a doctor? Right?

572
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: Like no, like that's something that was within her and

573
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: without without questioning, She's like, how can I get this

574
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: on right? And so like that was my example. And

575
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: I know how fortunate I am to have a single

576
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: mother that was raising three boys and where she was

577
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: that said I want more for myself, and not everybody

578
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: has that. So I don't judge really anybody, because I

579
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: know what it feels like to be judged based off

580
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: of like wrong perceptions. But I do view when people

581
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: are given opportunities, you better maximize those opportunities. So, as

582
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: I close out this particular podcast, my heart's heavy about

583
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: a few things. Right, Um, I I will say this.

584
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: I will say I hope that listening to Richard really

585
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: truly understanding his background and where he came from, what

586
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: he has, the opinions he has the biggest thing that

587
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: we can ever do, And I'm realizing this is to

588
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: understand that people respond and react based on their conditioning.

589
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: I am going to respond and react based on my conditioning.

590
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: And sometimes we don't even take that into consideration when

591
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: we are judging people and making opinions swift quick, it's

592
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: the same thing, swift opinions, rushing to judgment, deciding who

593
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: people are. We do that, um and that, and that sucks.

594
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: I don't know any other way to say. It just sucks.

595
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: I say that because I'm coming off an incident personally

596
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: where I was working and my mail colleague, who was white,

597
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: was working with me, and I felt as if I

598
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: was consistently being judged for being tough or demanding or

599
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: wanting more. And it bothered me because the frustration came

600
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: from people not really understanding what I've been through. And

601
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: you don't have to take me by the way high

602
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: it's worked. We don't have we don't We can't take

603
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: time to say to every person, the reason this person

604
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: acts this way is because they've been conditioned a certain way.

605
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: Who cares? But I and I'm and and as I'm

606
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: saying this to you, I know I am asking too

607
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: much of people to be aware of other people's trials

608
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: and tribulations and their conditioning, if you will, which they

609
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: bring into the workpace, into the workplace, because you always

610
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: bring it into the workplace. So I say, while listening

611
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: to Richard, I understand more. I see how his experience

612
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: of I see how his experiences have shaped him. I

613
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: see how his conditioning has shaped him. He had a

614
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: mother who was on welfare and she worked her way

615
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: off of government assistance and got a doctorate. Excuse me,

616
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: listen to that. Those stories are amazing. Had a father

617
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: who rode his bike to work, and then he got

618
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: a promotion, and then rode his bike even farther to work,

619
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: and then did overnight shifts as a janitor to make

620
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: sure that he could provide for his family. Several of

621
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: the boys which weren't even his, they were his stepsons,

622
00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: but he took care of them like they were his own. Man. Now,

623
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: I see, I get it. I get it. While you're like,

624
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, what, a little grit, a little grind, it'll

625
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: work out. That's his conditioning, that's his experiences that's what

626
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: he's seen. He's also seen the same in the same household,

627
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: the brother not do the right thing, why he did

628
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: the right thing, and he sees the result of doing

629
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: the right thing versus the wrong thing right. He sees

630
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: the end result of both of both of those decisions

631
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: being made simultaneously. So it helped me understand him a

632
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: little more. And sometimes I wish I had that same

633
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: understanding in the workplace. Quite frankly, it's just not gonna happen.

634
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: So as a result, the onus the work is on

635
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: me to look at other people and understand why they

636
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: are how they are and why sometimes I'm just gonna

637
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: be that angry black woman at work because they don't

638
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: even understand that one I have the right to be angry,

639
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: So kiss my ass and too, I'm not angry at all.

640
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,959
Speaker 1: I'm just conditioned. These are my experiences. Give me some leeway.

641
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: Consider how I grew up, and I'm not even talking

642
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: about growing up personally even professionally, how I came into

643
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: this business, how I've survived and fought my way through

644
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: this business in spite of not with help of don't

645
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: get me started. Maybe that's next week's episode. Thank you

646
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: all for taking some time to get naked with us

647
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: with Richard Jefferson. Thank you my friend. UH, you did

648
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: an excellent job. Goodbye,