WEBVTT - The Organ Trail, with Mangesh Hattikudur 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.119 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.880 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.880 Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is Nol. 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.920 Our pal Matt is on adventures and will be returning soon. 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:35.320 They call me bet. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.559 We're joined as always with our super producer, Dylan the 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:39.760 Tennessee pal Fagan. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.840 Most importantly, you are you. You are here. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.720 That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:51.120 Ed Noel, I know we've been talking a lot about 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.920 some classic rock stuff in previous episodes, So riddle me this. 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:56.600 Who wants to live forever? 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:02.080 It's the other nol the lesser Noel Gallagher of the 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.160 Gallagher Brothers family. Now he's way more famous than me, 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.120 you and I is who wants to live forever? And 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.120 we're going to We don't just want it, We're going to. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.240 Yeah, we're gonna manifest it. Dude. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.480 This is a question for the ages over the past 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:20.160 few millennia, just what's a couple thousand years between friends? 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:24.200 Civilization has tried all, dude, all sorts of stuff to 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.840 stave off mortality, and in recent decades, as you and 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.039 Matt and Tennessee and I have discussed in previous episodes, 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:37.679 science has made some extraordinary and terrified breakthroughs into what 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.600 we call longevity studies. 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:43.440 Hey did I tell you I finally got a blood boy? Oh? No, around, 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.360 We're just connected, oh intravenously. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:47.520 I'm just kind of siphoning off his life for us, 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.520 his youthful energy, and I feel like a million bucks 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:51.160 never felt better. 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.680 That's yeah, Okay, are you gonna put him in frame? 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.880 His name is no later episode Steve. 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.040 Okay, I mean that's no no, no, no, no, no no no. 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.400 I can't have people know too much about Steve. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:08.799 This is okay, yeah, keep it secret, Canty Steve. So 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.240 we know that new medicine, new treatments are all over 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:18.200 the horizon, especially for investors. We know about organ transplants 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.000 and cloning, the kind of stuff that makes you really 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:24.600 question what it means to be human. Luckily, we are 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.560 not diving into tonight's topic alone. We are thrilled, friends 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.720 and neighbors to be joined by one of our old, 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.600 dear friends. He's not old, We've just known each other 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.600 for a while. The award winning co founder of Kaleidoscope, and, 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.440 among many other things, the creator of the hit podcast 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.320 Skyline Drive, How to Live Forever, Man Gesh How to Couture. 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.760 Thank you for joining us, Dude, I am so thrilled. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.280 I love that we get to hang out. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.440 On camera because we haven't been able to do it 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:58.519 in person in a while. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:00.600 And I miss you guys to be good. 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.160 Gonna be saying and speaking about camera? What kind of 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.400 life extension technology are you tapped into? 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:05.639 Man? 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:06.320 You look great. 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:08.840 I'm suspicious for the filter. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:13.399 I think that that must be. That's about what most 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:13.960 of us can. 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.640 Afford, to be honest, So, Mengesh, Is it okay if 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.000 we call you Mango in this one? 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.280 Of course? Are you kidding? We're friends you don't have. 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:23.000 To hide from. 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.400 Okay, so don't you call him that. That's only close 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:30.600 personal friends like us. 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:34.400 We had to earn it. Uh so uh, you have 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.640 done so much stuff. A quick peek behind the curtain. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.040 We knew Noel, Matt and myself we knew a lot 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.480 about your work before we ever met in person. There 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:50.200 was a very awkward moment you and I had when 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:54.040 you we started working together, and I showed you what 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:58.400 are your books Mental Flaws? And you asked. You were 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.840 so polite and in person bull, You said, Ben, do 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.040 you want do you want us to sign this book? 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.400 And then I revealed that you had already signed it, 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.080 and I sort of walked away backwards because they didn't know. 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:10.360 What to do. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:11.000 Ah. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.880 Yes, the Homer Simpson Bush mood. Love it. 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.760 Yeah, just so, I don't think I would have offered 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:18.200 to sign it. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.000 I think Will is very happy to sign anything that's 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.599 put in front of it. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.760 Also, yeah, now he's now he's signing big contracts and 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.080 making billion dollar deals with TikTok and stuff. 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.920 As we know everybody. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.240 When we first started, like menal plus, we made this 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.320 like little video of like like just how our personalities 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.960 had blossomed and and and we did this thing where 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.359 like someone was pulling over to ask for directions and 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.720 this is so long ago that people had maps, and 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:48.400 like they showed this map to Will and he's like, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:50.240 of course, he just signs it. 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.800 Incredible, incredible. We love that dude too. 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.279 And he of course was your partner in Mental Flaws 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.920 and y'all work together on part time genius still from 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.560 time to time, and we love it when new episodes 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.320 of that Drop Mego. You and I worked together back 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.200 in the day on one of our very first true 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.680 crime shows. We worked on together, Happy Face, And uh, 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.760 you know you've moved on to do amazing things with 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.000 your company Kaleidoscope, and that I'm. 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.640 Gonna say just I mean, like I'm sure people know this, 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.599 but like you're just an insane and so talented musician 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.479 and and and the soundtrack for Happy Face, like we 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:27.680 talked about together, like. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:33.400 It's so crazy that this is an audio medium and. 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.000 Uh, there's so little actual music in it, like so 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:37.599 much of it as stock and stuff like that. And 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.000 you'd already been playing in this with with with previous 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.800 stuff at house stuff works. But like we made such 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.479 a rich soundtrack for that, and it was really you 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.599 for that set the tone of that show, and people 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.120 were asking if they could buy it. I mean, it 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:52.960 was it was incredible. 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.120 It was It was these lovely musicians from Athens called 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.160 Hope for a Golden Summer that were who I had 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:00.640 known from when I lived there back in the day, 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.160 and it was just that fit was perfect. 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:03.600 And yeah, I do wish. 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.799 It was available, but I'm really proud of those those folks. 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:07.560 For for the work that. 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:09.919 It was lush and gorgeous and and and when I 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.320 did my first season of Skyland like that, That's what 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.280 I was thinking, was like, like, what are the influences 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.479 that that I had growing up? And I had these 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.560 cousins who were always like going to matinees at CBGB's 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:23.880 and like had introduced me to like all this like 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.840 shoegaze and and then like rap and and and then 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.320 my being Indian, like I didn't want to just have 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:35.640 like the the stock sitar and and thub blood tracks 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.760 right like, like I wanted real fresh music and and 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.920 so like i'd say, there's a direct line from working 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.479 with you to like the way some of these things feel. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.840 It's very kind and it sounds fantastic. And we're burying 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.200 the lead here a little bit. We should probably talk 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.520 right away just about the subject matter around this season 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.240 of Skyline Drive how to Live Forever, And then a 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.240 little later we're going to get into something. I think 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.240 Ben and I are both excited to talk about this 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:01.960 idea of the organ trail. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:03.279 Yeah, totally. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.880 I mean I can just just to take us back step, 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.800 like the first season ended up, I wanted to do 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.000 something about astrology, because astrology was this thing that like, 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.640 you don't believe it in the US, but but or 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:17.920 it has become more and more popular, but certainly as 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:19.920 a kid, it was this thing that was a complete joke. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.320 And then when you go to India, people are basing 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.680 their entire lives on it, Like people were having c 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.520 sections and ordering gynecologists to like their obg y ns 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.800 to deliver a baby within a ninety second window because 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.720 they felt that was what would make the you know, 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:42.200 the life of this child the best possible. And for me, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.040 like being first generation in the US, like it was 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.400 one of these things where I always had to translate 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.880 each other's cultures to to you know, like go to 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:52.800 India and have to be the translator for US culture 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.440 and US like for India. And I wanted to make 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.120 a show that wasn't for believers or skeptics, but was 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.200 just really uh fascinating with the topic and all the 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:06.560 sort of like strange aspects from Reagan and his nuclear de. 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:07.920 Proliferation, like. 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.640 Linking back to his astrologer basically telling him that this 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.520 is the moment he should do it. To baseball teams 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:21.520 in California deciding whether or not they're certain between two players. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.080 Managers were actually using astrologers to dictate like which players 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:27.960 they'd use, and they don't go on the record on this, 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:32.440 but like they it is true and and so you know, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.680 I wanted to do this whole lark and then I 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.160 and then I went to this astrologer and Queens had 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:43.120 this like really wonderful reading, but in it he told 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.600 me my dad was going to fall ill. And then 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.000 thirty minutes after it, like my dad texted me that 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.800 this metastatic cancer had spread through his body and only 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.400 lived for three weeks after that. And so like it started, 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.800 it was this idea of like what happens when you 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:01.920 don't leave in astrology, but astrology keeps. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:06.240 Happening to you. And I didn't know where to go 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:07.080 from there. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.280 You know, I love that I did this season, and 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.240 I thought it was a fascinating topic that you pull 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.080 people into this sort of cultural phenomenon. And as I 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.679 was looking through old tapes, I noticed that that an 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.719 astrologery had told me that I probably would only live 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:28.400 to sixty maybe sixty four at the latest, and no 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:35.199 fire them. Yeah, but that's you know. So I found 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.200 this old tape and at the same time, I realized that, like, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.920 you know, when you turn there are two moments in 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.439 your life, one in your sort of mid forties and 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.000 one in your early sixties where your body goes through 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:53.120 precipitous declients. And so being forty six, I've started feeling, 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.600 you know, like that, you know, I don't recover the 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:57.680 way I used to, Like my body is a little 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:02.000 more achy there, you know, my metabolismally isn't the same. 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:08.280 But feeling that and then realizing there's this explosion of 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.360 science around us, right and this whole new wave of 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:16.520 really often wealthy people who are invested in science, who 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.920 think that they're going to live forever, and they have 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:24.680 this real sense that, like you know, they missed the 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:29.000 age of exploration and they want to be around for 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:34.840 to sail the stars essentially, and they're hoping that various therapies, 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:40.280 life extension techniques, et cetera will have them live well 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:44.160 into their mid hundreds, and many people think that they'll 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:44.839 live more than that. 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.440 So let's stay on this for a second, Mangesh, because 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:53.600 we have in our research, we had the weird moment 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.680 that happens to a lot of us nowadays, where we say, Okay, 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.280 we're listening to this amazing story for the ears right, 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:06.120 this is amazing fact based storytelling. And then we have 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.400 that moment where we look at each other and go, 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:12.959 oh wait, we could just call Manes and ask him. 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.720 So this is also I mean, we talk about so 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.040 much of this stuff just organically over the years. 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:18.880 I mean, we're all. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.360 Incredibly fascinated by life extension technology is like red meat 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.160 for critical thinking conspiracy discussions. 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:26.839 So it's so awesome to see you. 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.960 Kind of point your laser focused research brain at that 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.280 topic and it gives us so much to think about and 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:34.080 then to chew on. 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.440 So yeah, second thing that, Yeah. 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:40.600 You travel in the course of this season. You travel 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.880 to all sorts of places physically and cognitively. You're talking 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:50.000 to some of the world class experts at elite research 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:54.320 institutions like Harvard and MIT and so on, and then 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:58.240 you're also going a little off the grid to biohacker communities, 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.440 to what I'm still convinced is a very strange commune. 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:07.760 And you've got to tell us really quickly, in your 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:12.400 exploration of what you call longevinauts, what are some of 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.480 the most surprising things you learned. 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.320 Yeah. I mean for us, it really started from a 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:24.360 place of not picking apart the stuff by really just 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.959 trying to understand and understand people's motivations and this very 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:29.280 human sense of wine. 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:29.760 To live forever. 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.960 I think what's fascinating about it is that it stretches 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.240 so many spaces, right, Like, Like one of the things 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.400 we did was we ended up talking to two philosophers 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:42.160 who were debating whether endless life could be a meaningful one. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.840 And and to me, like the fact that like one. 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:53.040 Of the California like the University of California systems, like 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.240 he's like a like a dean and this emeritus like 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.000 he's arguing that you could have an endless life that's meaningful. 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:05.080 Is incredible, right, And and then the other person who's 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:11.120 considered this, like he's at Cambridge and he's this philosopher 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:15.199 who is called a mortality curmudgeon, thinks that you could 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:19.600 have a radically extended life. But like life changes so 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:24.440 often every one hundred years, like that you know, you 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.680 could be considered a good brit because you were a colonist, 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:29.960 you know, like you could be considered a good brit 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.120 because you were the head of a household and someone 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.560 who controlled his wife and family, but now you know, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.240 you're someone who has to change diapers and things like that, 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:45.240 and like the changing morality and customs and ideas make 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.840 it very hard to cling onto what a good and 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.840 meaningful life is. And watching these two people debate is 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.839 just like stunning, right, and so like, just on the 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.920 philosophical side of it, my roommate in college was a 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.760 philosophy major, and everyone was always like, you know, what 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.439 are you going to do with a philosophy major when 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:09.000 you grow up? And now you go to Silicon Valley 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.200 and every single thing hints on philosophy, right, like like 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.760 can should you upload your your life and your consciousness? 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.840 And is that a version of you? There are twenty 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.840 versions of you? Right, Like if you you know, we're 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.360 going to talk about organ replacement and body replacements and clones, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.760 and like every single thing touches on ethics and it's 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.800 all philosophy, and it's it's fascinating that like in some 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.000 ways that's where the show started with how there's always 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.760 been the sense not only like a perpetual sense of 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.760 snake oil that was marketed to people, but also this 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.280 sense that there's always been a quest to live forever, 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.040 whether that's through religion and the idea of a soul 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:55.880 or like you know, reincarnation, ideas of elixirs. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:56.920 Right, Like, all. 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.200 These things are ancient ideas that that sort of of 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:04.960 perpetuated our lives because we can't figure out how to 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.000 accept our life stopping. 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.680 Well, you know, it's funny really quickly. 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.000 I've been super enjoying the new season of Interview with 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.520 the Vampire, the Vampireless stat The songs are fantastic. But 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.080 one thing that vampire lore and you know, fiction has 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.880 always bumped up against is like, what is it like 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.640 to live forever? Functionally speaking, to see all the ones 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.640 that you love pass away and have to kind of 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:31.920 reinvent yourself over and over and over again. And it 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.640 does seem that inevitably these individuals sort of head towards 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.720 a life of nihilism and hedonism. And it just feels 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.560 like the Silicon Valley mentality of it all has a 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.280 little bit of that in it as well, this idea 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.720 of like, well, yeah, living forever sounds great, but then 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.040 what do you do with that life? And it's sort 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.080 of you start seeing like the Elon musks of the 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.240 world where it just feels like enough is never enough. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.120 And I'm fascinated by the philosophical side of what living 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:01.320 forever even looks like. 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.160 I think you're absolutely right, right, there's this like incredible 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.240 philosophical side to it. There's a side of like, you know, 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.560 is it natural and not natural to do this? Right? 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:12.360 Like that's always been a part of it. 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.320 I think the other thing that ends up coming up 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:15.800 before we even get to the science of it is 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:19.160 the economics of it, right, like the idea that you 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.000 can end up with, you know. I talked to this guy, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.880 Will Maher who's at Harvard, and he's in the Public 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:30.400 policy school there and and health school there and and. 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.000 He is brilliant. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:33.720 And one of the things he was talking about is that, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.840 you know, when you're testing longevity science and ideas of 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.120 like metabolism, fasting, et cetera, you are often working with 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.160 parasites and and and two types of worms, these sea 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.920 elegance and then these the other type of worms called 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:54.240 the Loa loa and the two worms are almost functionally identical, 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.920 and the ways you can play with them are identical, 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:02.480 except that the sea elegant has a very very short lifespan, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.880 and the loa Looa has this enormous lifespan, and and 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.160 it's because one of them lives in a costed environment 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.280 the other doesn't. And and what's he ses is essentially 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.600 the splitting of species. That's that you know, may happen 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.439 with with the ways that longevity, the ways that people 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.800 uh in these communities are moving to islands like Prospera, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.280 and these exit communities where where they they'll be siloed 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.520 and they'll and the ways that the rest of us 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.320 will emerge, the ways the rest of our health will 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.920 be taken care of, could be vastly different. And that's 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:38.880 also really stunning. 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.000 That's a great point. Let's let's hang there for a second, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:48.480 because we've had some very interesting conversations with old professors 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.439 of ours about the exact points you're bringing up, not 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:57.720 just the idea of a species driven kind of inequality 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:02.080 right or island effect, but also the hard cold truth 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:08.159 that historically most societies are designed with the assumption that 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.040 people die at a certain time, right. And we see 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.119 this in we see this in populations that are maybe 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.480 not hitting what we call like their sustainable reproduction rate 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:25.879 right where the population is largely getting older and even 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:31.800 now without amazing sci fi immortality, we see countries having 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:36.160 to ask serious questions about what happens when they're demographics 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:43.360 are up ended and the economic inequality aspect of this 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:47.480 is one of one of my favorite parts of your 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:52.280 exploration in this season of Skyline Drive, because we're not 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:58.040 just focusing on the science, right, We're not just throwing stats. 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.679 We're talking about, as you said, sure, philosophy, what it 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.919 means to be human and uh, with that, i'd like 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.640 to bring uh break some attention to one of our 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:14.000 favorite parts of your Organ Trail episode. You plucked something 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.440 that we clocked as well. Man, our buddy Daddy v 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:22.680 Over in Russia is apparently trying to live forever. 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:28.800 There's some there was some hot mic conversations, right uncle, 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:31.320 That's that's what what hipped me to this. But I 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.080 would love to know more because that was really the 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.760 only time that that's across my radar. But yeah, it 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.520 makes sense, but how how exactly is he getting into 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:40.240 this world? 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:40.680 Yeah? 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.720 We had this just so you know, make We had 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.920 this moment where we were talking about this hot mic 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.280 story that Noel mentioned and eventually we shrugged our shoulders, 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.120 and we said, you know, maybe that's just like those 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.000 guys version of small talk. 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.960 Yeah, the way that we shows as your blood boy, 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:00.480 what's your life? Exactly? Yeah, exactly. 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.119 So could you tell us a little bit more about 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:09.119 this Live Forever initiative or what's going on with Vladimir Putin? 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:09.679 Yeah? 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.160 So, I mean what's funny is that, like I had 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.960 done this interview with Russian journalists who had worked at 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:23.280 a publication called Proect, and he has actually been banned. 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:30.080 He's excommunicated essentially from from Russia. And and the reason 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:34.520 is is because he was reporting on Putin's health and 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.760 and Putin's health is so secretive, right, so much of 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.840 his identity is based on him being shirtless, him being like, 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:49.600 you know, hunting and this virility right completely, and and 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:51.399 and I don't know if you ever saw this, but 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.080 there's this incredible photo journalist who had like gone around 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:59.159 and taken all these pictures of kids who were putin 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.800 stands essential and like in in their rooms. Where these 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:05.520 like photos of like Putin shirtless. It was like it 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:11.840 was basically like lad so pro act, right, he's writing 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.639 for this thing, and and and he is discovering all 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.800 this stuff, and and along the way he realizes that 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:21.800 like Putin has uh, there's a whole team of people 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.480 around Putin all the time. And and he realizes that 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:29.040 actually they're all doctors and and and he and there 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.080 are these periods where Putin will disappear and they show 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:37.640 old coverage in in the Kremlin. Uh. But he finds 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:42.280 that not only is Putin traveling to his houses, but 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:47.040 in various places around Russia, but near them in the hotels, 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.600 there are these contracts that he finds where twelve doctors 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.320 are staying at a time. And and so what they 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.760 discovered through various like means was was that like that 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:00.920 Putin was getting various types of cancer treatments and surgery, uh, 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:06.320 including a thyroid surgery, et cetera. So they kind of 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.919 cracked the wall on on on what is going on 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:14.720 with Putin's health, but what he hadn't quite figured out 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.520 and hadn't quite pinned. And along the way there are 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:20.399 other crazy things, right like like Putin's taking baths in 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.080 in deer, in this dear blood extract and in Siberia 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:26.720 right like like they're there are all all sorts of 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.720 things that are sort of like folk ideas that circulate 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:36.200