1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Fry. Uh. And this week we had 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: our year in Unearthed. In coming out the second week 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: of so much stuff, so much stuff, we we needed 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: a little break, so we took a little break. Um. 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: And It's not totally uncommon for me to like start 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: work on an episode and then say, take a vacation 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: or have a couple of days out or whatever, and 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: come back to it later on. But this was I 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: think the lengthy ist break of such such circumstances that 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: I have had, and it made it kind of weird 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: because when I actually got back to my desk and 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: started going back through stuff, I was like, I don't 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: remember so much of this at all. Not what I expected. 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Plus us uh, then having three weeks of news to 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: go through to see if anything else happened, which there 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: were definitely interesting things that happened. Yes, that whole Pompeiian thing, 19 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: the Pompeii thing. People were like tweeting at us about. Listen, 20 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: I'm excited about a food stall for sure. Yeah. Uh. 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: It kind of it made me miss various travels where 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: I have you know, gone to food drucks or cookie 23 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: restaurants or anything like that. Yeah, I am. I am 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: definitely missing travels, which I know is like the most 25 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: privileged place to sit to be like, oh I wish 26 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: I could travel again. There are bigger issues that people 27 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: are grappling with. I know, um, but I really do 28 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: love the idea, my my whole thing. We're still it's 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: been postponed a couple of times. We'll see when it happens, 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: but we are still planning to do a history stuff 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: you missed an history class trip to Italy when the 32 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: pandemic is over and it's safe. And I keep being like, 33 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: I gotta make a side trip to Pompeii. I wanted 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: to do it already, but now I'm like, I gotta 35 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: see this food stand if I can. Yeah, yeah, I'm 36 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: not sure. I mean this this all folds into the 37 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: question of, um, when that trip might ever happen. Uh. 38 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: I feel like when I was looking at stuff, like 39 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff is currently closed because of 40 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: the pandemic. Um. It continues to be interesting to me 41 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: which things, uh stay stay closed in which things are open, 42 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: and how places are trying to mitigate risk. Um. The 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: next thing that we are going to record in this 44 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: recording session involves a park, and when I was just 45 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 1: looking at a map of it, um, I was also 46 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: seeing the information about which parts of the park are closed, which, uh, yeah, 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: that's the whole thing. I've been spending a lot of 48 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 1: my time um in very expansive parks uh that are 49 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: still open to the public because being outdoors is generally 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: a little less risky. Um. But the Massachusetts I can't 51 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: remember which department it is that's in charge of all 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: of that tweets out like the parking lot at this 53 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 1: place is closed for the next three hours because the 54 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: park is at its like maximum safe capacity. It's just 55 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: just the whole thing. None of that's related to Unearthed there, 56 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: just related to Our're still having a pandemic, right, We're 57 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: still trying to figure out when we can do history 58 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: things and visit places that come up unearthed. Yeah, and 59 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: many of them, like you said, are closed, So it's 60 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: related ish Yeah. Plus a tiny sneak peak of something 61 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: that's coming next week on the show. Yeah, I really 62 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: really loved the section that you include. Did hear about 63 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: bias and assumption? When analyzing bodies, I should say, because 64 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: it is one of those things that people UH often 65 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: think about certain things that have been related as fact 66 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: as settled history. But we can't always do that because 67 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: you have to remember that specific lenses were being applied, 68 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: and we have to you know, kind of backwards engineer, 69 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: like did that lens end up possibly misidentifying something? Yeah? Well, 70 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: and we also we have UM cultures from more recent 71 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: history than that section was about that do generally roughly speaking, 72 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: have like a gender dichotomy. Where As a general rule, 73 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: it is more of the men men's responsibility to hunt 74 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: and more the women's responsibility to gather. But when you 75 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: go farther and farther back in in prehistory and like 76 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: there's no there's not a living culture to talk to 77 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: people about. We don't really have any kind of written 78 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: records UM, there becomes a point where it's like we're 79 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: just sort of assuming that the way it works now 80 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: is also the way that it worked then, which is 81 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: not necessarily true. And it is one of the really 82 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: interesting things that they talked about on the podcast that 83 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: I mentioned in that, which is the Men series from 84 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: the podcast Scene on Radio UM. Because they talked to 85 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: anthropologists and other experts about the evolution of that whole 86 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: thing and how like how and when the idea evolved 87 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: that there that these jobs were separated by gender. There 88 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: was also one point, like we had a similar conversation 89 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: on the show at one point that we got some 90 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, kind of frustrated emails from people about and 91 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: then shortly thereafter there was an archaeologist who sort of 92 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: tweeted out this series of like, these are the things 93 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: we really have to think about when we're doing this 94 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: kind of work. And I was like, well, I feel 95 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: incredibly vendicated because these are the same points that I 96 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: was trying to make. I am not an archaeologist, so 97 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm glad to like continue to hear people having these 98 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: conversations and uh, you know, trying to make it clear 99 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: that there's stuff that like your upbringing in your culture 100 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: and your perspective affects all of these things, regardless of 101 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, how much you want to try to believe 102 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: that there's an impartiality to it. Right. I Also my 103 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: thing too is that and I tend to do it 104 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: as well, right because we're trying to parse difficult subject 105 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: matter just in terms of like understanding how other things worked, 106 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: and sometimes the strokes get so broad that we forget 107 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: that almost every I mean, I can't think of a 108 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: single example of a society or a culture that we 109 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: know of that doesn't have outliers, right right right, there's 110 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: all as people. Even if you say, well, most women 111 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: in this culture do this, there's always an exception. Yeah, 112 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: and most men in this culture do this, but there's 113 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: always some exception, and so noting as much as we 114 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: study history that there seems to be an exception everywhere 115 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: to something, Uh, I start to think about, like how 116 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: much of this is exceptions and just like a more 117 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: of a proportion analysis that we haven't really taken into 118 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: account because we're oversimplifying when we are like, no men 119 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: in this culture did it, well maybe maybe even sixty, 120 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: but there could have been others. So yeah, well, and 121 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: the Grave Goods conversation is so like if we just 122 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: think about people living today, like as a totally made 123 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: up example of a person might say like, I really 124 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: want to be buried with my grandmother's ring because I 125 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: loved my grandmother so much and it's gonna like it 126 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: makes me feel comforted to think that I will have 127 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: her with me when I go to my final rest. Uh. 128 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: And then you know, three d years later, somebody digs 129 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: up that grave and says, this ring must have been 130 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: a high mark of status, was really valuable. Um. You know, 131 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: it's like there's there's a we were learning things all 132 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: the time and and and reevaluating how we've drawn conclusions 133 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: all the time, and that's like an important and necessary 134 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: part of the study of history and archaeology and anthropology 135 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: and everything everything all fields, all fields, evolving all the time. 136 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: They don't just stop. I also had a funny random 137 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: thought while we were recording that I didn't mention because 138 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: it would have taken us woefully off track about the 139 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: beads that were so fine that they had to be 140 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: sifted with mosquito net. Yeah, and how they were found 141 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: up near what would have been that that person's shoulder. 142 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: And in my head, because I am a crafty person 143 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: who has done a lot of beating in my time, 144 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: I imagined this person that was working with taty tiny 145 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: beads and like they dropped their thing and they were 146 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: they just died of anger at the moment, like, oh 147 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: Dan it beads everywhere we've opened beads all over. The 148 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: beads all over seems like a good stopping point. Death 149 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: by bead frustration. Yeah yeah, oh man, somehow it reminded 150 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: me of I was making myself some hot cocoa while 151 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: I was on a break, and it's like a particular 152 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: hot coco that I really like. That it is is 153 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: a mix um and I don't remember what I did, 154 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: but I did something that just like flung a table 155 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: spoon of the powder all over and the sound I 156 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: made was so dismayed that from the other room I heard, 157 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: are you all right anyway? Welcome to the new year 158 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: of recording and year. I know this is now a 159 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: couple of years or a couple of year, a couple 160 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: of weeks into the new year as this episode comes out, 161 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: but we're recording it literally right after. So I hope 162 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: everyone who had has some kind of a break over 163 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: the holiday time had as good of a break as possible. 164 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: Uh Yeah, If you want to write to us, we're 165 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: a history podcast that I heart radio dot com, and 166 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcast and 167 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app and anywhere else to get 168 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 1: your podcasts. Stuff you missed in history class is a 169 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I 170 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 171 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.