1 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: Hello everybody. Hi uh oh, I am so excited today. 2 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: That jazzy little tune is getting me very excited. Welcome 3 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: one and all to the first, the absolute first premier, 4 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: as we call it, in the business episode of The 5 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: Office Deep Dive. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. Now 6 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: where did this podcast come from? I don't know if 7 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: you're aware that I had another podcast, an oral History 8 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: of the Office. Now, if you haven't listened to that, 9 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 1: you should, because I mean, it's absolutely genius, if if 10 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: I say so myself. But what happened was we did 11 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: that podcast and we had so much fun making it 12 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: and getting back together with my old castmates and crew 13 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: and writers and directors. The problem was, we got so 14 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: much good material we could not fit all of the 15 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: great stuff in. That's what she said. So we decided 16 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: to make another podcast, this podcast, the one right here 17 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: that you're listening to right now, And this time I 18 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: am releasing all of my raw, unfiltered, full length interviews 19 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: for you to go even deeper. So let's dive in, 20 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: shall we. Hi. I'm Greg Daniels. I was the showrunner 21 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: of the Office. So how do we begin? Well, we 22 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: begin at the beginning that made no sense. Uh. The 23 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: thing is, there is only one way to begin a 24 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: podcast about the Office, and that is with Greg Daniels. Now, 25 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: as some of you Office fans undoubtedly no, Greg was 26 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: the creator and showrunner of the American version of the Office. 27 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: But what you may not know is that before that, 28 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: Greg was the showrunner and co creator of King of 29 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: the Hill. And before that he was a writer on 30 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: The Simpsons and Saturday Night Live. And see what is 31 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: so cool is that, as you'll hear momentarily, all of 32 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: that experience totally shaped Greg's vision for The Office, which 33 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: at the time was honestly revolutionary. There was nothing like 34 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: The Office on American television. I truly cannot overstate how 35 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: significant Greg's role was on the show. He assembled the 36 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: entire team, and he was responsible for everything from casting 37 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: to set design, production design, the shooting style. Again, all 38 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: of that you're gonna hear about in a minute. But 39 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: the point is he is literally the reason we're all 40 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: here today. Well maybe not you guys, but me. He's 41 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: definitely the reason that I'm here. So I'm obviously very 42 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: excited to kick things off. I'm gonna shut up now, 43 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, for our very first interview. I am 44 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: proud to present Mr Greg Daniels Bubble and Squeak. I 45 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: love it. Bubble and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker Cookie 46 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: at every month lift over from the night before. Oh hi, buddy, Hire, 47 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: so good to see you, to see you too. I 48 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: love that carved I have Atner's chapel. I have an 49 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: engraved plaque. That's fantastic. We face each other. How do you? 50 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: I think we face each other. I think we're here. 51 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: It's kind of neat. It's a great room, right, Yeah, 52 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: how are you are they recording? Yeah, we're just having 53 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: a chat. We're having a chat. I've stolen a few tricks, exactly. 54 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: We just merge in. Actually, that's exactly right. I learned 55 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: from the best. Um, well, thank you for fighting me. 56 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: Congratulations on your podcast. Thank you so much. It's been 57 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: so fun to one just see people and to to 58 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: like reminisce and talk. I mean, everyone has been so 59 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: generous and thoughtful and articulate, and well that's going to change. Yeah, 60 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: I kind of figured. So I'm not talking to you 61 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: about I'm just going to talk to you about King 62 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: of the Hill because it's fun. Um so before the office, 63 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: what were you what were you doing immediately prior to well, Um, So, 64 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: I had just kind of come off a very intense 65 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: maybe eight years at King of the Hill, and this 66 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: was the first show that I was the showrunner. And uh, 67 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: that job is maybe not that widely known outside of Hollywood. 68 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: It's like the director of the movie. It's very full time, intense, 69 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: start to finish on something job. So I had come 70 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: off The Simpsons, and the Simpsons was really good training 71 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: in many ways, but there was a lot of things 72 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: I wanted to do differently because you know, when I 73 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: got to The Simpsons, it was season the end of 74 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: season four and the show was getting a little wilder 75 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: kind of And for Key of the Hill, I wanted 76 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: to keep it contained and realistic the whole time. And 77 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: I was very much of the opinion and you have 78 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: to really start slow on the show and just the 79 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: value of slowness, but come up with stories like from 80 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: a simple place, not a grand idea or set up. 81 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: Is that what you mean? Well, like, for instance, the 82 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: the pilot of King of the Hill, you know, the 83 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: first couple of minutes, these guys are standing around a 84 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: truck just going yep, you know really and um, you know, 85 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: so I I had come off that and you know, 86 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of Seinfeld and I wanted 87 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: to get on that show. I sold them one script. 88 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: I was a freelancer, but I generated a lot of 89 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: stories and would pitch them and I really thought about 90 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: that show a lot. And then I went on The 91 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: Simpsons instead and learned a whole bunch there. But I, um, 92 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: it was kind of a good student of knowing that 93 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a runner. So I would take 94 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: notes and you know, write them down, and I have 95 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: all these scraps of things and I would develop a 96 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: different theories. And one of the theories that I had 97 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: I call stuff the Sausage, And that theory is a 98 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: great show like Seinfeld is wasteful of wonderful ideas, you 99 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like they'll have a great idea 100 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: and it might just turn into a couple of lines 101 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: or a scene, like they don't milk it and make 102 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: a whole episode out of right. So we tried to 103 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: do that on the Office too, But there was a 104 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: lot of that on King of the Hill, where you'd 105 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: have subplots and you know, really tried to put a 106 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: lot of story into an episode. What were your favorite shows? Like, 107 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: what were you watching at that time? Seinfeld? I loved. 108 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: But part of it was when Matt came out. You know, 109 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: it was very different and it was really on by 110 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: the skin of its teeth, and if you picked up 111 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: on it early, you had definitely this feeling of, oh 112 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: my god, here's something super funny and if I don't 113 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: watch it, it's gonna be extinguished. And actually I had 114 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: a I had a meeting at ABC and they were talking. 115 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: They said, what do you like to watch? And I said, oh, 116 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: I love Seinfeld And they said something like the that 117 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: they had Home Improvement and that they identified that Simon 118 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: felt was going to be a threat, and they wanted 119 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: to move Home Improvement against it and squash it in 120 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: its cradle, but they couldn't because they had this long 121 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: standing deal to run Sibs opposite Seinfeld, and they were 122 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: watching it kind of catch hold, and they were they 123 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: were like, as soon as they could, they were going 124 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: to squash it with Home Improvement, and I was like, 125 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: don't you dare do that? You know, um, well, that's 126 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: kind of what happened to us too. By the end, right, 127 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: they moved Gray's anatomy against US and c S. I 128 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: was on CBS like they were pulling all their big 129 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: shows against US. Yeah. Well, I kept making I made 130 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: a lot of Seinfeld comparisons in the beginning, because um, 131 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, I was like, oh, look how small that started. 132 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: It's something new, it's something unique, it's funny, you know, 133 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: let it grow and everything. But it turns out every 134 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: single producer made Seinfeld comparisons if you had a show 135 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: that was struggling, you know, no matter how good it 136 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: was or how close it was the Seinfeld, they had 137 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: heard that argument before. Um, and when did you become aware? 138 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: You were aware of the British version Ricky Gervais and 139 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: uh no, here's what happened. Um okay, So so I 140 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: do King of the Hell. Yeah. I go into an 141 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: overall deal at twenty and then when that deal expired, 142 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: I started to kind of look for the next thing. 143 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: And my agent, our Emmanuel, sent me a VHS cassette 144 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: and said the office on it and the show was 145 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: completely unknown, and I didn't watch it, and he called 146 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: me like after the holidays and he said, um, hey, 147 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know, send this to next guy on 148 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: my list. If you don't watch it. So I said, 149 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: all right, all right, hold on, I'll try and watch 150 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: it tonight. So I popped a set in like at 151 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: nine PM or something, and I stayed up till one 152 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: watching the show. And I absolutely loved it. I thought 153 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: it was amazing and I couldn't even figure out how 154 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: it was done, you know it was. It didn't feel 155 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: like scripted. It was so alive and cool. And you 156 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: know how I said, I was like a student a 157 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: bit of being a showrunner. So a lot of times 158 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to meet the people who I thought were 159 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: doing the best work, whether or not I figured I 160 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: would ever work with them. So it was really important 161 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: for me to sell a freelance episode of Seinfeld so 162 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: that I could work with Larry David and see what 163 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: was up. And I identified that Ricky and Stephen had 164 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: created something amazing, and I really wanted to figure it 165 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: out right, but I didn't. I didn't really think that 166 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: it was plausible that it would come to American TV, 167 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: or that I would get the job or whatever. But 168 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to meet them and asked them about it. 169 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: So I met him at Ben's office, a little bungalow 170 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: on the Universal Law yeah, and it turned out that 171 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: number one, they loved the Simpsons. Number two Rickey's favorite 172 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: Simpsons episode was one that I had written, called Homer Badman. 173 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: So we started vibing nicely and um, you know, and 174 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: I talked to them about what I saw in the show, 175 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: and you know how I would adapted, and a lot 176 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: of it came from King of the Hill being kind 177 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: of realistic and slow and poignant. Um. But anyway, we 178 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: got along really well and um, so they trusted me 179 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: to take over and do the adaptation. And Ben had 180 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: identified a few people who he thought would be really receptive, 181 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: and Kevin Riley was the front runner and he was 182 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: running f X, and it seemed plausible that if anybody 183 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: could take the office, it would be f X or 184 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: maybe HBO. Those were like the two we were thinking about. 185 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: But now Ben told me that HBO wasn't interested because 186 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: they didn't want to do a remake. Correct, Yes, they 187 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: were out of the running. So FX looked pretty good. 188 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,599 Speaker 1: But what happened was, um, Kevin Riley left f X 189 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: and took over NBC, and he still wanted to do 190 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: the show. And I was very skeptical because everything on 191 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: NBC had was multi camera Will and Grace was their 192 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: number one show, and um, it did not feel at 193 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: all like The Office. So okay, So I started to 194 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: convince myself maybe the point of bringing the Office, I 195 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: actually thought this was, was move the ship of comedy 196 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: in a direction towards something I liked more. And even 197 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: if I just nudged it in that direction, maybe it 198 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: would be valuable, like flame out to do you know NBC, 199 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: even if it failed miserably, you were doing your part. Yeah, 200 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: I was gonna nudge Network Comedy or the main ship 201 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: of comedy. I wanted to nudge it in a different direction. Um. 202 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: Then a few things happened that were very anxiety producing 203 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: for me. At some point, Uh, the Office started to 204 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: air on BBC America in the United States and it 205 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: was very small ratings. Um. But that also made me 206 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: very anxious because I didn't think that it would ever 207 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: air in the United States. Do you know what I mean? Like, 208 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: I have the role to the Office that Norman Lear 209 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: had All in the Family because All the Family was 210 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: in English show. But no one's ever seen the English 211 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: show that all the Families based, right, so Norman Lear 212 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: has no points of comparison. I didn't have to worry 213 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: about anything. It was just like, oh, what a great, 214 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: great new show you got. Um so that shared air 215 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: and all the cool comedy people were really into it, 216 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: you know. And this was when we had we had 217 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: already shot pilot. So I'm jumping ahead a little bit. 218 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: This was right before, right before we uh, right before 219 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: we were going to airs, when I started to come 220 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: out because they wanted to like connect it, I think 221 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 1: to the NBC show or something. Okay, yeah, I mean 222 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: I I had gotten an early DVD of it too. 223 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: And it's interesting. I was one of the first people 224 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: to get a DVR because I felt like, well, if 225 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: I'm meeting on these shows, I need to see what's 226 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: out there, whether I like it or not. I should, 227 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, see an episode of c S I and 228 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: see an episode of Will and Grace. So I just 229 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: spent all my time watching and to try I got 230 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: a ti VO. Yeah, and so I had watched I 231 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: had watched it at that point. I have a funny 232 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: Tevo stories sidebar. But yeah, so I got a TVO 233 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: two and they had an early version of the Netflix algorithm. 234 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: They were like, oh, you look, you watch this and 235 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: this and this at the time, I was watching Ken 236 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: of the Hill episodes just to make sure it aired properly. Um, 237 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: I love the Sopranos. So I was watching that and 238 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: then my kids we're watching Dragon Tales on PBS, and 239 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: so they tried to triangulate off those three and uh 240 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: and they said, you know what you'd like McHale's Navy. 241 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: That was the cross second of three shows. I think 242 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. So you sell the show to NBC. Yeah, 243 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: you're running it, and now it's time to come up 244 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: with a pilot. Now, how how did you come up 245 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: with a decision to keep it so close to the 246 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: British version? Yeah, well that was interesting. I had went 247 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: back and forth. I had generated a bunch of stories 248 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: if I was going to do a completely original story. 249 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: And when I was growing up, my dad was a 250 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: businessman who had a lot of performative interests like stand 251 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: He used to do a manager's meeting every year at 252 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: his company where he got Karnak hat you know, the 253 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: turban and his name is Aaron. He would do Aaronak 254 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: And my first joke writing was writing jokes for his 255 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: routine for Aaronach. And as I became a comedy writer. 256 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: Some very good people like Colan O'Brien wrote for him, 257 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: and you know, Mike Reis a lot of good comedy 258 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: writers wrote for Aaronach and I used that, I think 259 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: in the Dundees because I, uh, Michael has an aaronak 260 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: or karnak wig and he does the exact same joke. 261 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: That was the first joke that I wrote for my dad. Um. 262 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: But to get back to the question of what to do, 263 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: so uh so I used to do an award show 264 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: at King of the Hill called the swamp Eas, named 265 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: after Swampy Marsh, who was one of our designers who 266 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: went on to create Phineas and ferb and he had 267 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: a big personality, and so we called it the Swampys. 268 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: And I got those little plastics salesman trophies that are 269 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: not too hard to get, and I used to give 270 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: those out at King of the Hill. So anyway, I thought, well, 271 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: the Dundees Dundee Awards would be a good you know, 272 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: pilot episode, yeah, because you'd sort of by giving awards 273 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: to everybody, you could introduce all these different characters or whatever. 274 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: But um, then I started to get worried and I 275 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: didn't want to Um, do an original script that the 276 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: NBC executives were going to start giving notes on which 277 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: they would have I believe with an original script. And 278 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: I was just really I felt like the pilot was 279 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: like the challenge was, can we do something that feels 280 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: like The Office and not like Will and Grace and 281 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: not blow it right? I thought it was more of 282 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: a producing challenge and the hiring challenge to anything else. 283 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: And so ultimately I got Kevin to say, I want 284 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: to make The Office, and I said, all right, I'm 285 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: gonna hold you to that. The first the pilot we're 286 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: gonna make is going to be very close to the 287 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: English show anyway, So I made some changes to the 288 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: English pilot. I added a bunch of stuff and advanced 289 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: the romance a little bit so you'd know at the 290 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: end of the pilot what was going on. And ultimately, 291 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: in the edit room, which lasted forever, we did twenty 292 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: three cuts. I ended up losing a bunch of stuff 293 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: that I had added, but I did you know, there 294 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: were some good things I added, Like I added that 295 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: World's Greatest Boss mug that he bought from Spencer Gifts, 296 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: and a bunch of things like that. Um Anyway, but 297 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: for you, it was more about creating the world and 298 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: finding the team and finding the and the cast, the rhythm, 299 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: the dynamic and selling that as opposed to trying to 300 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, write a Dundee's Award and change how the 301 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: show was launched. Yeah, I thought it was a huge 302 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: producing challenge, and you know, and I had all those 303 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: theories and like the stuff to sausage and stuff, and 304 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: some of the theories that I had was that the 305 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: show had to be handmade, like it couldn't be a 306 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: factory product. And what I didn't like about network television 307 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: was how much of a factory it was. And how 308 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: you know, there was a writing staff and the writers 309 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: wrote jokes, and the jokes got passed down to the actors, 310 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: and the writers and actress would always resent each other, 311 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: and the writers would try and write actor proof jokes 312 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: that you know, are can contain the setup in the 313 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: punchline in the same line, because they didn't ever trust 314 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: that the actors could get laughs on behavior. So the 315 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: first thing I really wanted to do was create comedy 316 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: television in a different pattern so that you could get 317 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: more laughs off performance and not jokes. Right, I've heard 318 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: um and people have talked about it, and you've talked 319 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: about it, Um, that you were trying to create an 320 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: environment that was more like S and L where the 321 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: writers and the actors there wasn't so much disconnect and 322 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: that and that writers were performing with the actors, and 323 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: actors could pitch ideas to the writers. Um what I 324 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: what I haven't heard before that you just said, which 325 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,479 Speaker 1: I find so interesting that you wanted laughs to come 326 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: from behavior and from actors performances, and and and so 327 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: you needed a writing staff that understood and had trust 328 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: in the actors, which is in a way kind of 329 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: the reverse of how I thought about it. Yeah, well, 330 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 1: you know what they always said it was the biggest 331 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: laugh of all time was Jack Benny where he's getting 332 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: mugged and the guy says your money or your life 333 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: and he just like has to think about it, you know, 334 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: And like, to me, that's great because that's not a joke, right, 335 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: it's just like you're bringing to bear the everything you 336 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: know about the character. I thought those were such cooler 337 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: things than jokes. And Um. Anyway, so that was like 338 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: the big challenge. And then also it was that format, right, 339 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: it is mockumentary, and it was very quiet, and it 340 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: had its rhythm and the comedy of awkwardness where like, 341 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, someone's supposed to behave a certain way and 342 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: they aren't, you know what I mean, and then it 343 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: sinks in and and um, that was certainly really hard 344 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: to pull off at that time. Yes, I had a 345 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: director that I worked with for a long time in 346 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: theater before. He always talked to me about off the beat. 347 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: That comedy exists off the beat. So if you have 348 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: an expectation of when you should respond, you you you 349 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: wait a half beat, you do something that jars people, 350 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: which surprises them. And I felt like, that's what what 351 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: you did so well on our show. Well, surprise is 352 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: really good for comedy, right, And to me, um, anything 353 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: you can do to increase surprise is good. And the 354 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: problem to me with your multi camera shows in general 355 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: was that the rhythms were so ingrained. You know, it's 356 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: always like up, you know, and you could kind of 357 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: just and it felt like like kabuki, you know, or 358 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: some kind of really ritualized thing. So there's a lot 359 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: of really cool things about the Office in terms of 360 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: increasing surprise. One of them to me is you're going 361 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: for poignancy half the time, you're going for something emotional, 362 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: so you're not aware as an audience, remember what the 363 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: goal of the moment is, so you think, oh, you know, 364 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: oh this is sad, this is a you know, and 365 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: then it's funny and then you you're surprised or if 366 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: vice verse him. So um. So the first the pilot, 367 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: we had Peter Smokeler as the DP, and a lot 368 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: of the hiring of the pilot for me was trying 369 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: to get people who I super respected from different things 370 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: that were kind of off, like not the standard sitcom. 371 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: So um. Alison Jones loved freaks and geeks that thought 372 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: her casting was amazing, so I really wanted to get her. 373 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: And then I had tried to work on Larry Sanders. 374 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: I did a couple of days of punch up there. 375 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: I'd identified that as something similar to to Seinfeld, like 376 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: some show that was just doing amazing stuff. And that's 377 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: how we got to Ken koppas Yes, And the whole 378 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: thing with Ken was wanting everybody to believe that they 379 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: were working at a paper company and absorbing that and 380 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: kind of taking the Hollywood out of it. Well, there 381 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: were so many things that you guys did. First of all, 382 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: getting a sound stage as a location and choosing to 383 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: put the offices in the production offices upstairs, right because 384 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: that was a real space and Ken and his making 385 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: us be all ready to go at seven am and 386 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: doing thirty minutes of just work. Yeah no, that was 387 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: really uh part of that notion of obstacles that like 388 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: I um, we discussed that a lot as well, which 389 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: is uh on the Hollywood set. And again this is 390 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: like trying not to be factory, not to be Hollywood. Right, 391 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: So on Hollywood set they make the walls wild a bole, 392 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: which means any room you're in you can pull the 393 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: wall off so that the camera can get back and 394 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: get a great shot. And our aesthetic on the office 395 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: was nothing should be wild able, you you should. The 396 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: obstacle of a column in the way is subconsciously interpreted 397 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: by the audience as another piece of evidence that this 398 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: is actually happening, that's real, which makes it much more intense, 399 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: right because subconsciously you're like, oh my god, they couldn't, 400 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: they can't, they can't quite see what's happening, right, So yeah, 401 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: you're totally leaning forward and that zoom lends stuff and 402 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: going through the blinds and going around the side and everything, 403 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: and there was always a debate about how much to 404 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: lean into that device, and the writer is often would 405 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: want to do it more than the rest of the crew. 406 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: And one of the interesting things of being a showrunner is, 407 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: first and foremost you're the head writer. You're like one 408 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: of the writing staff, but you also interact with everybody 409 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: else on the crew way more than the writers do. 410 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: And so, for instance, Phil Sheha, the prop master, He's 411 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: a guy that I would ask his opinion all the time. 412 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: And Dave Rodgers, the editor, I completely relied on. And 413 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: I would also often bring in the accountants. Remember this, 414 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: I would have two different cuts downstairs, and I'd bring 415 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: the accountants in. I'd play it for them because I 416 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: figured they were the closest we had to ordinary people. 417 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: But anyway, so like some certain key moments, the big 418 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: question was how much to use that device of obstacles. Interesting, Um, 419 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the casting just a little. Yeah, 420 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: and Alison Jones, how why did you choose Alison Jones? Okay, Well, um, 421 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: so I did. Uh. While I was at Fox. I 422 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: did a pilot uh, and it was sort of based 423 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: on me growing up in New York and I. I 424 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: considered it sort of Seinfeld the Family show. It was 425 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: like a Seinfeld family show. And I was casting right 426 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: when Freaks and Geeks had been canceled, and I saw 427 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: all of the kids and UM, a lot of them 428 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: perst into tears when they went toition because they were 429 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: so sad that their show got canceled. And I ended 430 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: up using Sam Levine in this show. But anyway, I 431 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: got I was really into Freaks and Geeks and UM, 432 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: I really liked the choices, Like she chose really funny people, 433 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: but they were, you know, pretty character in a great way. Yeah. 434 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: So I when I tried to think of all of 435 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: the casting directors that I could try to go to, 436 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: you know, uh, I was like, I want, I want 437 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: to work with her. I think she she'd be great. 438 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: So we went into this really long casting process and 439 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: we were off for some reason. We were off cycle. 440 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: We were like going to be mid season so we 441 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: didn't have to compete with every single other show. And 442 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: we started with um, you know, Jim and Pam, Michael Dwight, 443 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: those were like the ones we started with. And we 444 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: saw a ton of people for Michael, and I brought 445 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: in people who I had worked with were writers. I 446 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: brought in one of the head writers of The Simpsons, 447 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: Mike Greece, to try out, and this writer I knew 448 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: named Chuck Tatham, And I remember taping myself on a 449 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: video camera late at night doing the sides for Michael 450 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: because I was like, I don't even know what to 451 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: tell them, you know. And I did it a bunch 452 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: of times, and I realized that one of the keys 453 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: that I thought for people trying out for Michael was 454 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: that he's thinking that if he does a good job 455 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: on this documentary, maybe Jennifer Anniston will watch it, and 456 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: that's in the back of his head. That was well, 457 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: that was like my direction that yeah, And I did 458 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: that from taping myself and going, oh, that's the only 459 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: thing that's motivating me into something resembling this weird performance. Um, 460 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: was there anyone that came in right away who you 461 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: ultimately cast that you went, that's it? Jenna? Yeah, Jenna 462 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: came in and it kind of blew my mind because 463 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: I didn't understand it. I was like, she doesn't appear 464 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: to be acting. She appears to simply be Pam. And 465 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,239 Speaker 1: I had all these weird questions for her that were like, well, 466 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: you wouldn't ask an actor. IU was like, where where 467 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: have you worked? What is that? You know? It was 468 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 1: like it was a real interview for receptionists. There was 469 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: one part of me in trying to get an interesting 470 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: love story that thought maybe it should be interracial love story, 471 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: and so part of me was I had a one 472 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: version of it where Craig Robinson was Roy not Darryl. 473 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: And there was a really likable actress Erica Bettina Phillips, 474 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: and I was like, could she be Pam? Wow? Is 475 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: that gonna work? And everything? You know, but she was 476 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: a pretty easy pick and I felt pretty much like 477 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: that about John. I think too. Um, there were some 478 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: other good guys for John, but not not close and 479 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: was it about the two of them together? Yeah? And 480 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: then well the great thing also that Ken did and 481 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: it was really smart, which is he said, okay, like 482 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: we are not going to try and take these people 483 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: in front of NBC on a little stage and have 484 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: them read in front of the executives. And I was 485 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: completely on board with that because we would never be 486 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: shooting like that. That's not the right style. And what 487 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: that is is a filter to get more theatrical performers. 488 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: Who are good for multi camera, who can work a room. Yeah, 489 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: who work a room and come alive when they're in 490 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: front of a room and and project and you know, 491 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: are just more theatrical. And so we got this idea 492 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: to do screen tests like old fashioned screen tests, and 493 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: we blocked off three days and um, and we took 494 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: all the different top three or four candidates for each 495 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: role and we pitted him together in different improvs. And 496 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: it was great for Ken too because he worked out 497 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: a lot about the shooting style doing this. And it 498 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: was fun for me too because I came up with 499 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: lots of little improv games and could figure out things 500 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: and like, for instance, one of them was between the 501 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: Gym candidates and the Dwight candidates, and I had Dwight 502 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: sitting at his desk and I said, like, all right, 503 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: the Gym just bring a glass of water in a 504 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: nice way to Dwight, and Dwight be super suspicious because 505 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: why is Jim doing something nice? And it was really 506 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: nice by the way of all the actors, because a 507 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: lot of the actors gave us three days shooting. So 508 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: that's a long audition. But just like everything, it took time. 509 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you cast for three months, then you did 510 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: multiple days. I'm super methodical. I have to say, like, 511 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: i feel like, if I have time to make a decision, 512 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to chase down every option and abe it 513 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: and really try. And you know, and as you started 514 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: to find the rest of the ensemble, what were you 515 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: looking for there? Well, part of it was different types 516 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: of people, you know, and part of it was Allison 517 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: having passions for people, like we didn't have a ton 518 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: of choices for Kevin, right, she was really passionate about 519 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: you and came in and we could see it right away, 520 00:31:54,680 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: and it was like cool, that's great. And Oscar and 521 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: Angela were both you know, had come from the same 522 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: improv theater. They were both io guys. And Oscar has 523 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: the ability, like he has such a straight face, I 524 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: mean he has the ability to play it so straight 525 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: and it's so funny. Has a little Jack Benny actually 526 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: you referenced him before, just yeah, yeah. And and the 527 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: great thing was also the set informed a good bit 528 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: because like we were all in the same room. But 529 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: it was very useful to have a nook with three 530 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: improv masters to have a sort of create a subplot 531 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: with almost you know, you needed to cut away from 532 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: the what was happening in the triangle of Jim Pam 533 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: dwighte desks, and the accounts were great for that. And 534 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: the other thing that was great was you guys were 535 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: just making your own bits up. You know. We we 536 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: were the star of our own show in the corner, 537 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,239 Speaker 1: which was how Areous? And you would come to me 538 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: and go, hey, hey, hey, check this out. We got 539 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: this thing going. I have to tell this story. Um. 540 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: We were the first season, we shoot the basketball episode, 541 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: which is your the first episode you wrote. And I'm 542 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: trying to bond with my boss, right, and I'm a 543 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: huge sports fan, big basketball fan, and so we're doing 544 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: the basketball episode and I remember I said, so, Greg 545 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: are you are you You're a big fan of basketball 546 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: and you turned like kind of tilted your head slightly 547 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: and said, I'm a fan of comedy and then turned 548 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: and walked away. I was like, that went really well, Brian, 549 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: a great, great job with it. Was just so so 550 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: interesting for me that you had constructed that as being 551 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: that was my That was funny. Yeah, I mean this, Yeah, 552 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: that's so sad and lame on my part. But I 553 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: didn't have enough brain space for sports know what I mean. 554 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: I I am marvel at people who can know all 555 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: about all the teams, and it's a great thing for 556 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: guys to hang out and bond with each other. It's 557 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: like my dad and my son are both great at it. 558 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: No matter where they go, they're just they can instantly 559 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: have a cool conversation about basketball. Well, they just didn't 560 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 1: have the room. Well there's a theory, right that people 561 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: only have the brain space for for one of three things. 562 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 1: One is sports, two is music, and three is useless trivia. 563 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: Oh I got that. That's man. So it's one of 564 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: three things and useless trivia because that's not Unfortunately it's 565 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: not music in sports. But it does help when you 566 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: write Dwight because a lot of times I would, you know, 567 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: I'd be like, yes, if there's one character I'm probably 568 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: the closest to, it's fucking Dwite. I don't know, I 569 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: don't know. It's sometimes it felt that way. It was 570 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: really easy to do all those bear runs. And like 571 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: one time when that do you remember that book what 572 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: was it called? It was like worst case Scenario handbook? 573 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: Remember that book? All right? So this is this was 574 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: like a Christmas type you know, novelty gift book, and 575 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: it was it was just how do you escape from 576 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 1: a bear? How do you escape from a burning building? 577 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: You know, worst case scenario and book and anyway, that Christmas, 578 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: I got like eight copies of that bad book from people. 579 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: They were like all of them were like, this is 580 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: for you, this is this is for you. So I 581 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: don't know, definitely easy to write, right. But on the 582 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: other hand, also I identified a lot with Michael. For instance, 583 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: the Halloween episode, this notion that you would have to 584 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: fire someone but you'd want to stay friends with them. 585 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: That comes from identifying with the boss in the situation. 586 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: And normally you identify with the employee until you've had 587 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: an experience of being a boss, and then you start 588 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: to go, oh, wait a minute, maybe there's somebody has 589 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: a point of view there. And I was the boss 590 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: of the writers, and so it was sort of funny 591 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: because like a lot of times they would be you know, 592 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: pulling the right at me and mocking me, and I 593 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you can use it for the show. 594 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: And Steve used to say something like, if you're in 595 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: a situation where there you don't see any Michael Scott, 596 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: you're Michael Scott, that's right, that's right. So after doing 597 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 1: the pilot, we get a very anemic pickup of five 598 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: episodes for a season one, and all of my Seinfeld 599 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: arguing rebounded against me, because you know, I was dancing 600 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: and trying to get get a pick up and everything, 601 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: and they were like, well, if it's really like Seinfeld 602 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: Seinfeld only had four episodes whenever in the first season, 603 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: were like, um, so we get this little skinny pick up, 604 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: and now I get the ability to hire writer, and 605 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: so I love hiring writers. And I read hundreds of scripts, 606 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: not hundreds, but at least a hundred for each time 607 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: I have to hire a staff, and I meet people, 608 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: and in the meetings, I'm describing the show because it 609 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: hasn't come out right, and the more you describe it, 610 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: the more your thoughts start to coalesce. And I and 611 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: I realized as I was trying to like pitch the 612 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: show over and over again to different writers, that this 613 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: was the first um comedy version of reality show, and 614 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: it was kind of the first show. And this gets 615 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: maybe theoretical, but like I was saying, all right, well, sitcoms, 616 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: multi camera coms are a TV show for people who 617 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: love theater and have done a lot of theater and 618 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: go to theater. That's the idea. But now everybody has 619 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: their own cam quarters, And what about a show for 620 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: people who have taken video and are used to looking 621 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: at the viewfinder and turning to cover one guy and 622 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: then the other guy. You know, America's funniest videos like 623 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: that cam quarter thing had come in hard and um 624 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: and reality shows. So I was kind of developing this 625 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: idea that the bones of the show wouldn't be theatrical, 626 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: they'd be video. And when you think about photography and 627 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: you think about the great you know, street photographers, so 628 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: much is about finding a way to look at the 629 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: real world and finding beauty in what you see right 630 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: in front of you, by the way you compose it, 631 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: or your selection of subject matter, where the decisive moment, 632 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: or you know, stuff like that. Well, randall Uh talked 633 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: to me a little bit about this idea. He attributes 634 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: to quote to you, which is everything that makes it 635 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: harder makes it better. Yeah, that's that obstacles and the yes. 636 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: And in terms of the obstacles and obviously a huge 637 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: part of the aesthetic was the camera as a character. 638 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: How important and was that to you. Oh, I think 639 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: that's huge. I mean I used to give notes very 640 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 1: differently to camera operators then most shows. Like most shows, 641 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,439 Speaker 1: the note is okay, I want you to pan over here, 642 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: and then on this line, I want you to, you know, 643 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: do blah blah blah, push in or whatever. And I 644 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: used to only give notes to them like their actors. 645 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: I would say, Okay, here's what's interesting. You've been following 646 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: this story, and you know this person who's never expressed 647 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: any interest in that person before, You've suddenly noticed that 648 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: they're eyeing them with interest. Go for that. And some 649 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: of the things we used to do with Randall. I 650 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: would sometimes say, Okay, the problem with this scene is 651 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: you know what you're looking for, and I would have 652 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: the camera operator close their eyes and I would spin 653 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,760 Speaker 1: them around and I'd say, right, find it on action, 654 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: and we go action and the scene would start and 655 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: the camera guy would open his eyes and be pointing 656 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 1: the wrong way and he'd have to like find find 657 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: what was interesting. Yeah, we had a bunch of tricks 658 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: like that. What I have said is the thing that 659 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: I'm the most proud of was that every single shot 660 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: was purposeful in terms of the camera is the camera 661 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,760 Speaker 1: in the space. Are the characters aware that the camera 662 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: is there? How does that make them behave? Yeah? Well, 663 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 1: I you know, the writer's offices were near the stage, 664 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: and so I would often come down and look and 665 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: see stuff or get called down, which was very fun 666 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: but also kind of high stakes kind of deal, because 667 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: you show up, the whole crew is there and they're 668 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,879 Speaker 1: they're saying, can you look at this? This doesn't seem 669 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,360 Speaker 1: to be funny, Or I would look at the rehearsal 670 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't think it was funny, And then you 671 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 1: only have a couple of minutes to figure it out. 672 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: And one thing that I noticed was that camera awareness 673 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: was the cause of half the times when it wasn't funny. 674 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,879 Speaker 1: Is that we had gotten the camera awareness wrong and 675 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: we were in a situation where we should have been 676 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: spying on them through blinds, but the cameras are right 677 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: and everybody's face and we were expecting people to act 678 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,439 Speaker 1: as if they didn't know the cameras were there, right, 679 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: or you know, sometimes it's funnier to not spy on 680 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: them and to let them be embarrassed that the cameras 681 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: are seeing it. Like I was just watching that one 682 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: which one was it? I guess it was the client, 683 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: remember that one, and just the camera chased Michael he 684 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: got the call being the jan didn't want to see him. 685 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: While he was he was sort of bragging the camera 686 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 1: and then he got this horrible call and he had 687 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: to actually hide in the well under his desk, and 688 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: the camera came around and like squeezed and kind of 689 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: caught him there like a raccoon in the light next 690 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: to a garbage. It's added so much, the camera could 691 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: add so much. Totally, did you right for the camera 692 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: as though it were character? Yeah? Sometimes, for sure. I 693 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: remember jen Um Salada actually doing that the most. Like 694 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: she she was the first person to have the camera 695 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: like nod you know, she had I forget which episode, 696 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: but she had somebody looked to camera and say where 697 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: do you go or something like that, and the camera 698 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: kind of like gestured and that was kind of fun. 699 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: It was. It was really up to the line though. Um. 700 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 1: And then you know when we had that arc of 701 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: Jenna going to art school or Pam going to art school, 702 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: we had a whole thing and it was originally I 703 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: think I think it was Mindy's idea or she was 704 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 1: the biggest proponent of it. But it was the idea 705 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: of the boom operator getting involved, and it was to 706 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: me one of the coolest ideas. I couldn't really figure 707 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: out how to work it, and we had a version 708 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 1: where she got mugged on a subway and the boom 709 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 1: operator dropped or the camera dropped the camera, and I 710 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: remember that, I remember that idea. Yea was that in 711 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: a table read? Even it probably I probably was, Yeah, 712 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: you know what's really fun? Now, it's like people are 713 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: talking about the show all the time, and so I 714 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: got asked about it. But it's ten years ago, fifteen 715 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: years ago, and sometimes I can't remember what made it 716 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,720 Speaker 1: into the show or what was like a crazy table 717 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,439 Speaker 1: read or what was pitched and I turned it down 718 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: for obvious reasons. One other question, just about the pilot. 719 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: Do you remember how the pilot tested? I'm guessing not good. Yes, 720 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: So Kevin Riley told the story that how testing happens 721 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: is there's certain people who are set up in different rooms, 722 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: and every room was bad. Yeah, and accept they got 723 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,800 Speaker 1: to the last room, which essentially were people who didn't count, 724 00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,839 Speaker 1: but they were p a s and office assistants at 725 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: young people and they loved it. So it was like 726 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: from the very beginning that that's interesting. Well, they they 727 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: said to me, with the testing, they said, we're going 728 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: to go out in the mall and just grab a 729 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,840 Speaker 1: bunch of people. You can have one question to disqualify people. 730 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: And so the question I had was if they were 731 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: a fan of according to Jim, that TV show. They 732 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: were disqualified because I didn't want to you know, I 733 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: didn't want to do a sitcom, so I had to 734 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: pick one. But anyway, but I mean, I had prepared 735 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: Kevin right like way before I knew this wasn't going 736 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,800 Speaker 1: to test well, and I you know, I had certainly 737 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 1: laid the ground worth Kevin for that. I was like, 738 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: this thing is not going to test well. It is 739 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: firmly in the pattern of Mary Tyler Moore, Cheers Seinfeld. 740 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: It's classic NBC comedy, and you know it's gonna work. 741 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 1: But don't don't worry about the testing. And I said, 742 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's a in this podcast room. You guys 743 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: have this Cheers poster where you've replaced all of the 744 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: Cheers characters with office heads. One of the things that's 745 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 1: so funny, I think inappropriate about that is about the 746 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: theme song because we had put a theme song on 747 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:26,479 Speaker 1: the pilot that then was grabbed by another NBC show. Yes, 748 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: um what was it, Mr Blue Skies. That was what 749 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: was on the pilot, and it was all the internal screenings. 750 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: That was the theme song on the pilot. And the 751 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 1: pilot was also called The Office colon an American Workplace, 752 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: which I thought was more doc you you know that. 753 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,399 Speaker 1: I also kind of figured it would open us up 754 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: to be able to do other an American workplace like 755 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 1: this is. I mean, it just didn't really apply until 756 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: we got to the finale and I managed to work 757 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: it in finally, But that was the that was the 758 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 1: thinking that you could you could do another series that 759 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,799 Speaker 1: was something else in American workplace, where the that this 760 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 1: was just a season of a larger series called an 761 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,760 Speaker 1: American Workplace, just to just to try and get more 762 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: reality to the documentary thing. Because after a while, I 763 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: mean we sort of pointed it out at the end, 764 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: like why were you here for nine years? But um, 765 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: so I had really fun experience getting the theme song 766 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: for King of the Hill where we went out to 767 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: bands and stuff and they all submitted stuff and we 768 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: had to sort of sum up what the show was 769 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,799 Speaker 1: really quickly. And my line on King of the Hill 770 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: was Andy Griffith's back and he's pissed. That was how 771 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 1: I would sum up that show. But when we were 772 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,959 Speaker 1: looking for a theme song for the Office, I kept 773 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: referencing Cheers because I was like, the Office is funny 774 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,359 Speaker 1: and poignant and original, and it has this sort of 775 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:57,719 Speaker 1: cheersy vibe. I always felt like our show that that 776 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 1: was where it's deepest roots was Cheers. Yeah. Um, the 777 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 1: only difference was these were people who had to show 778 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 1: up every day, whereas Cheers they chose to show up 779 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: at this particular place. But that, um, the tone of 780 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: familiarity and constant interaction that that it had its ties there. Yeah, no, 781 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: I agree with you, And and Cheers had a very 782 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,799 Speaker 1: it's sort of there were moments of nobility and a 783 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: lot of appreciating different character people. I also used to 784 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: compare it to Hogan's heroes in the beginning. Yeah, you know, 785 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 1: because uh, the staff were kind of like prisoners. They 786 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: were all trying to like outwit the boss. Kind of 787 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: that was I don't think that's the main influence at all, 788 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,320 Speaker 1: but interesting, it's fun to think about it like that. Sometimes. 789 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,360 Speaker 1: All right, guys, we're gonna pause. We're not gonna stop, 790 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,240 Speaker 1: We're just gonna pause. Um, because there is so much 791 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: more great stuff from Greg. You're gonna hear more from him, 792 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: and not just one, but two future episodes. But in 793 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: the meantime, you can go right now and you can 794 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,719 Speaker 1: listen to my interview with Rain Wilson, a k a. 795 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,880 Speaker 1: Dwight Shrewd, which, as you just heard, Greg and Dwight 796 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,919 Speaker 1: kind of the same person, so it makes total sense. Now, 797 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 1: Normally we're just gonna put out one episode a week, 798 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: but I was just too excited. I was just too 799 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,319 Speaker 1: excited about launching the podcast. So go now, America's sweetheart. 800 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 1: He's never been cooked that Rain Wilson. Anyway, thank you 801 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: so much for listening. Episode one done check. I hope 802 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,279 Speaker 1: you enjoyed it, and uh yeah, we will see you 803 00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: next week. The Office. Deep Dive is hosted and executive 804 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:13,440 Speaker 1: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. 805 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our associate producer is 806 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 1: Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My 807 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,399 Speaker 1: main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme 808 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,400 Speaker 1: song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, 809 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,479 Speaker 1: and the episode is mixed by Seth Olandsky. Special thanks 810 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 1: to the amazing production crew who recorded these interviews with 811 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:41,400 Speaker 1: us Joanna Sakalowski, Julia Smith, Benny Spiwak, Russell with Jaya, 812 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: Margaret Borchard, Christian Bonaventura, Matthew Rosenfield, Alex Mobison, Lucy Savage, 813 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:53,920 Speaker 1: Judson Pickward, Jack Walden, Jonathan Mayer, Andrew Stephen, David Lincoln, 814 00:49:54,120 --> 00:50:03,560 Speaker 1: and Saida Lee