1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From how stupports 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And Caroline, I think I've shared this 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: with you before. When I was younger, as in during 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: my childhood, my mom taught me and my sisters how 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: to cross stitch, and I learned how to crochet, and 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time doing that kind of 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: yarn work, needlework. I tempted to learn how to knit, 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: but that's as far as my skill set got me. 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: I have no such skill set to speak of. Um. 11 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: I made a gem Halloween costume a couple of years ago, 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: and man, those stitches on the silver belt that I 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: had to make, we're embarrassing pretty the chunky kind of stitch. Yeah, 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: it was just like up and down, in and out. Hey, 15 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: But there there you go. You're sewing. Um. I will say, though, 16 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: after reading up for this episode on the revival of 17 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: Crafting and Handmade, I want to pick up my crochet 18 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: needles again. Yeah. I want to make something. I don't 19 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: know what, but I gotta I've got a hankering to 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: make something. Yeah. Well, it's also the holiday season and 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about 22 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: crafting is because with gift buying these days, a lot 23 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: more people are turning to local sellers and looking specifically 24 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 1: for handmade crafted items. Yeah. I actually bought my boyfriend 25 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: one of his Christmas presents is something that is handcrafted 26 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: by and are too then somewhere I don't know, New 27 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: Jersey or something. I don't really know where it's from, 28 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: but it is handmade and I can't say what it 29 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: is on the podcast in case he listens. Yeah, I 30 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: don't know if he listens or not. Well, justin ace. 31 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: But follow up question though, Caroline, this won't give anything away. 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: Can you say whether you bought it on Etsy. I 33 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: did not buy it on Etsy, but I bought it 34 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: on another website that features very small production type of projects. Okay, 35 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: so in Etsy type of store. Well, we've got to 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: talk about Etsy when it comes to holiday shopping because 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: this past Black Friday weekend they had their hugest sales 38 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: weekend ever. Uh. They had a sixty year over year 39 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: increase in sales compared to last year, which you don't 40 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: need to have a degree in business and marketing to 41 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: know that that is a lot that is a lot. 42 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: And it's interesting to read the trend stories about Etsy 43 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: around this time every year, because every single year the 44 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: lead is like, holy goodness, Etsy is selling even more 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: stuff than they did last year. The percent increases are ridiculous, 46 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: and the website enjoys forty two million unique visitors per month, 47 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: going to more than eight hundred thousand shops filled with 48 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: fifteen million products. I know that when I go on Etsy, 49 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: just as like a casual browser, you know, if I'm 50 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: not specifically looking for something, it can be overwhelming. There 51 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: is so much stuff on there and you kind of 52 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: have to weed through a lot too. Yeah, and for 53 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: people out there who are really invested in crafting and handmade, 54 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: don't worry. We aren't just going to talk about etc. 55 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: But I feel like etc Is such a household name 56 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: and one of the reasons, big reasons I would say, 57 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: for crafting kind of re entering the mainstream in the 58 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: past five ten years. And the incredible thing about ets 59 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: is how quickly it has picked up speed because as 60 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: a website, it turned profitable in two thousand nine and 61 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: it only been live at that point for a less 62 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: than four years, which, if you know anything about digital 63 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: marketing turning a profit that quickly is pretty good, and 64 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: by two thousand twelve, it was generating almost nine million 65 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: dollars in sales alone. Yeah, which is pretty darn impressive 66 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: that that many people are spending that much money on 67 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: handmade or mostly handmade goods. Etsy itself charges about twenty 68 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: cents for every item listed and makes about three point 69 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: five percent of every sale. And that said, though a 70 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: minority of sellers are full time et se prenewurs um. 71 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: I actually know of a woman here in Atlanta who 72 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: started a business on Etsy a few years back, just 73 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: making really cute handmade labels for things like preserve jars 74 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: and lay bowls. Now she has a lot of things 75 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: for um, like wedding place cards and things like that, 76 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: and now she does is still on the side of 77 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: her full time job. But Caroline, she's making probably twenty 78 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: five extra dollars a year. Whoa, whoa. That is so 79 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: much more money. It's incredible that that is incredible, And 80 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: I mean that's also so much more money than just 81 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: your average at the seller makes. That's true. Yeah, She's 82 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: definitely at the top of her game in terms of that, 83 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: because the average seller is making under four thousand dollars 84 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: a year actually, right, so basically just enough to notice 85 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: the difference in your income and be able to pay 86 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: for things, but not enough to quit your day job basically. 87 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: But nevertheless, even though people and and it's largely women, 88 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: aren't making enough to just retire on and at the 89 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: et the retirement fund um, it's still a new kind 90 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: of industry, right. It's this thing. It's part of a 91 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: growing micro business economy basically, and a lot of people 92 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: talk about how the government fails to capture a lot 93 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: of these sellers in that exists in these informal economies 94 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: are kind of falling through the cracks because if you 95 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: think about it in terms of like the larger economy, 96 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: we're in an interesting time now. We're kind of coming 97 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: out of the recession and everything, but we still have 98 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: middle class issues. We still have issues of the disappearing 99 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: middle class and people not being able to find work. 100 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: And so the majority of Etsy sellers are combining, actually 101 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: combining multiple sources of income. Only twenty have full time 102 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: jobs outside of Etsy. And one feature of Etsy that 103 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: is really appealing to women in particularly moms, is that 104 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: the child care issues with an Etsy job or obviously 105 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: as about as flexible as you can get because you 106 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: are oftentimes working in your home or as some women 107 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: will describe how you know, after the kids will go 108 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: to bed, then they can start sewing king on their projects. 109 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: And I mean, I think it it's clear from what 110 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about that it Etsy businesses are are serious 111 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: business for a lot of people. Etsy did a survey 112 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: looking at I think more than like five thousand of 113 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: their sellers and found that se sellers say their shops 114 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: are their businesses, and nine of those want to grow 115 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: their sales, but only to something that they themselves can manage. 116 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: So the bulk of people on Etsy, I would venture 117 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: to say, are not trying to create some mega corporation 118 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: from their sewing or their stuffed animals or whatever, you know, 119 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: things like that. They they still want to be considered 120 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: a small time crafter, but that extra income, especially in 121 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: this economy, can make a huge difference for a lot 122 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: of people. But more broadly speaking, some people point to 123 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: et se as a sign of a craft revival that 124 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: we're in. UM Chris Anderson, who is the founding editor 125 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: of Wired magazine, called it the maker movement. UM and 126 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: other people have given it other terms, your your crafters, 127 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: your makers, your handmade artisans, whatever you want to call it. 128 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,559 Speaker 1: There is certainly a resurgence in people making things, maybe 129 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: more slowly and by hand and in smaller numbers. And 130 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: so this actually kind of harkens back to an interview 131 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: that you fair listeners might have listened to previously that 132 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: we did with Emily Matcher, who's the author of Homeward Bound, 133 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: and she's a big part of this you know, quote 134 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: unquote new domesticity movement. Yeah, she focuses a lot on 135 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: all of the various kinds of crafts that people are doing, 136 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: and how that even extends into people are doing homesteading 137 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: and having backyard chicken coops and all of how all 138 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: of those different things intersect. But when we look at 139 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: this craft aspect, it's interesting to see how it started, 140 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: because as it did not start with Etsy, as I'm 141 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: sure a lot of listeners know and are waiting for 142 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: us to hopefully say, no, it did not start with Etsy. Um. 143 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: In the book, which is also a documentary, Handmade Nation 144 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: by Faith Levine and Courtney him Role, they have a 145 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: delightful timeline of what they call the new wave of 146 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: craft and they begin their timeline in and it really 147 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: starts out this new wave of craft as they call it, 148 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: in sort of a Riot Girl type of fashion, with 149 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: a lot of things happening in the Portland's Seattle, Olympia, 150 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: Washington area, and it's a lot of women initiated alternative 151 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: crafting communities and zines that start popping up. Yeah, and 152 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: this should sound familiar too if you listen to our 153 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: Riot Girl episode in which we talked about zines and 154 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: d I y and punk music and all of those things. 155 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: People making their own clothes, making their own publications, all 156 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. And so this is kind of 157 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: happening around that same time. So in the period of 158 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: nine we have some developments in this movement. By Olympia 159 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: dot Com goes live, the glitter Boards, an alternative crafting 160 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: community goes live. You have get Crafty dot Com which 161 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: goes live. It's put out there by Gene Rayla. Uh. 162 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: And then Young Blood here in Atlanta opens which is 163 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: pretty awesome store if I do say so myself. Yeah, 164 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: and uh, for fans of Bust magazine, that's when it's 165 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: She's Crafty column starts up. And from there, once we 166 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: enter into the two thousands, things start to move from 167 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: just communities and groups to actually having more brick and 168 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: mortar establishments, kind of like young Blood here in Atlanta. Uh. 169 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: You have things like Needles and Pens opening up in 170 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: San Francisco, Coggan Pearl opening up in uh New York. 171 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: You have I Heart Rummage in Seattle. And then you 172 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: have more websites start to pop up, one of which 173 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: is not Martha dot org because remember this is also 174 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: do during the heyday of Martha Stewart, who helped fuel 175 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: some of this d I Y ethos. But this is 176 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: not exactly the Martha Stewart type of crafting. Yeah, I 177 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: would say they're more parallel. They're not exactly intrying. I mean, 178 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: they are intersecting. But I I would venture to say 179 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: that maybe the people who are reading Martha's magazines and 180 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: watching her TV shows are taking a different route than 181 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: the women who are participating in this sort of craft 182 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: revival movement. Yeah. I think of it more as like 183 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: the punk rock Martha Stewart. So yeah, as we move forward, 184 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: it and this movement starts to get bigger and bigger 185 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: and attract more people who are just like superintenitting we 186 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: get things like the Austin Craft Mafia UM and and 187 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of other communities popping up in in different 188 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: cities across the country. And then you get fairs and festivals. Um, 189 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: you get the Ladies Independent Design League starting in New 190 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: York City in the mid two thousands, and just bigger 191 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: craft fairs and trunk shows continued to pop up. Yeah, 192 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: and you also have specialty magazines like Ready Made and 193 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: Craft Magazine launching. And then yes, we must circle back 194 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: again to Etsy, which goes live in two thousand six. 195 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: And the story of how Etsy is born is interesting 196 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: because it starts out with this guy named Robert Kalin, 197 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: who was originally brought in by Gene raally A to 198 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: redesign her site, get crafty dot com. And she had 199 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: founded the site, she'd been going for a while and 200 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: he came in and he had kind of been like 201 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: doing other things and was kind of trying to find 202 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: his way in the business world, figure out what he 203 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: wanted to do. And he really gravitated toward this radical 204 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: crafting ethos and all of these festivals and fairs that 205 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: were happening as well, and a light bulb went off 206 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: in his head saying, you know what, what if we 207 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: developed a this no model around all of these individual 208 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: sellers tables that I see at all these festivals. Yeah, 209 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: and there was a New York Times article talking about 210 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: this movement and mentioning Robert Kalen and it doesn't paint him, 211 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: I think, in the most favorable light, but it is 212 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: interesting to read because you know, if you just say, like, oh, 213 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: this guy came in to redesign this lady's craft website 214 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: and he got the idea to make money, it's it's 215 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: actually much more than that. He was a philosophy student. 216 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: You know. He spoke at length to the New York 217 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: Times reporter about the handmade philosophy. He said, it's not 218 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: a fat it's a resurgence. And so it was more 219 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: than just a guy wanting to make money off of 220 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: a trend that was built largely on the hands and 221 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: knitting needles of women. Um, he really found himself fighting 222 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: against the big box store mentality in our country. Yeah. 223 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: I mean, there was definitely a very real idealist that 224 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: was going into the founding of Etsy, and it took 225 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: off pretty quickly because by late two thousand seven it 226 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: had seventy thousand sellers, of whom were women. And on 227 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: July twenty nine, two thousand nine, it achieved its one 228 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: millionth sale. Right, So, as Etsy is building its following 229 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: and getting more and more sellers on their selling their 230 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: amazing creative weares it's still part of a subculture. It's 231 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: still not taking over the market, and it's still not 232 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: infiltrating the general online shopping consciousness, you could say. Um. 233 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: And during this time, Faith Levine who we mentioned at 234 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: the top of the podcast, she's the author of Handmade 235 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: Nation and also made the documentary about this community. She's 236 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: taking notice and she really wanted to document what was 237 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, and so she traveled around the country 238 00:14:53,880 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: interviewing crafters, makers, artisans about their process, their philosophy, um, 239 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: their experience being someone who's in this handmade world. And 240 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: she really wanted to make that documentary Handmade Nation, she says, 241 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: because she could sense that the crafting tide was swelling 242 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: and she wanted to do this herself and make this 243 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: documentary in the right way. Before as she told it, uh, 244 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: there would be some kind of reality show about cute 245 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: girls crafting that would just ruin the whole thing. Can 246 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: you imagine I can't imagine. I can't imagine. I can 247 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: totally imagine. Um. Yeah, she has an interesting quote. She said, 248 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: I believe the simple act of making something, anything with 249 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: your hands is quite a political ripple in a world 250 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: dominated by mass production, and people choosing to make something 251 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: will turn these small ripples into waves. And I mean 252 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: she should know. She went from just crafting zines and 253 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: sock monkeys in her apartment to churning out a ton 254 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: of products, including stuffed owls, which are a thing now, 255 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: quite a thing. Uh. And and that was back in 256 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: two thousand two that she was selling a ton of 257 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: her stuff online. But again echoing that Riot Girl podcast, 258 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: her description in a profile in The New York Times 259 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine was a quote sometimes artist who 260 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: made punk rock magazines. So clearly we've got that hardcore 261 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: d I Y undercurrent. And in those interviews with those 262 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: crafters and handmade Nation, there are these themes that constantly 263 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: come up of wanting to be anti industrial, anti institutional, 264 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: anti consumerists, and also this appeal of being highly entrepreneurial. 265 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: And so you really see this intersection of politics with 266 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: these handmade goods. And in this PBS article about Handmade 267 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: Nation because it got a lot of press at the time. 268 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: It described how quilts are cutting edge outlets for self 269 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: expression and samplers carry messages of anti consumerism, environmentalism, and feminism. 270 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: It's interesting. I mean, now you know we're coming. I 271 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: feel like this is a conversation that we've had, you know, 272 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: obviously on different topics in the podcast before, about things 273 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: that are considered feminine being reclaimed. And you know, it's 274 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: part of this this quote unquote new domesticity, a term 275 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: itself which doesn't necessarily sit well with everyone, but more 276 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: of just that political movement towards Okay, well, quilting is 277 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: such a woman thing, but I'm going to do it, 278 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: and it's going to be radical because you know, it's 279 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: it's part of a new upsurge of creativity, of creation. Yeah, 280 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: and there are even crafters out there who specifically make 281 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: hand goods, not so much for of the utility or 282 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: for home decor or whatever you want it to be, 283 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: but actually to make a direct political statement. So you 284 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 1: might have people like yarn bombers out there who are 285 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: going and wrapping up different things out in structures, out 286 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: in parks or um just like out in public spaces. Um. 287 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: And and there's a term for this, it's called craftivism, 288 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: which I believe was coined by Betsy Greer, who was 289 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: the author of Knitting for Good. And there are all 290 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: of these groups as well who are into craftivism. And 291 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: it's not just yarn bombing, but there's a lot of 292 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: knitting involved. Yeah. And these groups include, uh, people like 293 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: the Anarchist Knitting Circle, the Revolutionary Knitting Circle, and micro Revolt. 294 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: And it's funny we Christen and I read the study 295 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: that talked about this whole craftivist movement and the gender 296 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: aspects of it and how this is not Martha's crafting. 297 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: You know, You're you're taking something like, you know, knitting, 298 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: which happens in the home and it's traditionally like your 299 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: grandmother doing it, but you're pairing it with these quote 300 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: unquote masculine ideas about revolution and revolt and anarchy and 301 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: like knitting death matches, things that are very competitive and 302 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: outside the home, and just kind of mixing up those stereotypes. Yeah, 303 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: and just the very act of taking that domestic work 304 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: into the public sphere where it's completely unavoidable. You can't 305 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: not look at a giant tree that was in Atlanta 306 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: on a on a main thoroughfare that had been nit bombed. 307 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: And this also, though two points to the massive spectrum 308 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: of Etsy and crafting in general. From this, you know, 309 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: the anarchist knitting circle, all the way down to the 310 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: person who is just making a few extra bucks selling 311 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: some thrifted clothes or handmade stationary whatever. It might be 312 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: kind of fascinating to see how all of these different 313 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: people are being united, knit together, if you will, through 314 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: this movement. Yeah. Well, I mean certainly they're not. Every 315 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: one is excited about it. You know, we spoke about 316 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: the Martha audience, and I certainly don't want to put 317 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: any Martha fans down out there at all. But in 318 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: speaking to the New York Times, Andrew Wagner, the editor 319 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: of American Craft Magazine, said that older generations of crafters 320 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: didn't really take a shine to this new trend. Basically, 321 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: he said, the old guard was saying, it took me 322 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: twenty years to master my craft, and these kids think 323 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: they can just start by stitching owls. And I see, 324 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: I see where that attitude would come from. Because if 325 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: you're making a quilt, because you're an expert quilter, and 326 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: whether you want to make money or whether you're just 327 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: making it for your grandkids. You might be like, what 328 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: are these kids doing, you know, making stuffed birds? But 329 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: you know, to that, I say, like, if somebody wants 330 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: to freaking stitch a stuffed animal at them. Yeah, And 331 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: the thing is, Wagner was going on to talk about 332 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: how they have retooled. That's kind of a pun American 333 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: craft magazine to bridge those two worlds, because the thing 334 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: about it is those craft people of your share a 335 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: lot of the same ideologies as these radical crafters today. 336 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: Because there was something called the Arts and crafts movement 337 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: that happened first in the United States at the turn 338 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: of the century, and then there was a revival in 339 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies. And it's those those baby boomers 340 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: of the sixties and seventies who took parton that revival 341 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: who might look askance at what's going on today and 342 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: say that it's not legit. But those arts and crafts 343 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: movements were still fueled by the same reactions against mass production, 344 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: industrialization and things like that. Yeah, it's very cyclical. I mean, 345 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: our older generations, I would hope can see that you know, 346 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: people our age participating crafting and things like that are 347 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: just part of the same cycle that they themselves were 348 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: on um the movement in the sixties and seventies, and 349 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: orge thanks to Princeton professor Robert Judson Clark, who in 350 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two directed an exhibition about the American arts 351 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: and crafts movement from eighteen seventy six to nineteen sixteen. 352 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: So I mean it goes back and back and back 353 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: and back that these arts and crafts cycles have popped up. Yeah. 354 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: And and the first arts and crafts movement actually started 355 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: in England during the late Victorian period and was promoted 356 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: by theorists and art critic John Ruskin. And then it 357 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: travels across the Atlantic to the United States, where it 358 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: actually is renamed I should have said the studio craft movement. 359 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: And this was happening in eight seven, that's when the 360 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: first Society of Arts and Crafts emerged in Boston. But 361 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: you have them popping up and all of the largest 362 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: urban centers in the US. Yeah, and it really arose 363 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: kind of as all of these as all of these 364 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: ups and downs in the arts and crafts movement. Do 365 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: it really arose as a critique of industrial labor um. 366 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: They were fighting against lowered standards for design that they 367 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: said had been debased by mechanization. They wanted to elevate 368 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: the designer as craftsmen UM. And so in these urban 369 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: centers in America you have men really leading the movement. 370 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: But there were a lot of training centers established to 371 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: teach women certain skills, especially immigrant young women UM such 372 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: as Boston's Sunday Evening Girls Club, which was established in 373 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: as just a reading group for immigrant girls. But right 374 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: there at the turn of the century they founded the 375 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: very American named Paul Revere Pottery, offering the girls in 376 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: the group a chance to earn money. Yeah, And and 377 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: pottery was often taught to women, along with metalwork, textiles, 378 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: and jewelry making. So these are really interesting skills. And 379 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: to think about that happening in the late eighteen hundreds 380 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds is pretty fascinating, you know, just because 381 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: of how you still see similar kinds of things happening 382 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: today to wrecked outreach of teaching people, maybe in lower 383 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: income communities, how to make handmade goods that they can 384 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: then sell and create supplementary income UM. And from there, 385 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: though you do have it trickling into more mainstream outlets. 386 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: The Metropolitan Museum of Art noted how in the early 387 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: twentieth century you have magazines like House Beautiful and Ladies 388 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: Home Journal that really took these ideas of elevating design 389 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: and craft in the home and interiors and popularizing them. 390 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: I love House Beautiful, Yeah, I mean, it's almost too 391 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: aspirational for me at this point, um, but it is 392 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: fascinating thing of a magazine like Ladyslome Journal, a House 393 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: Beautiful in the hands of maybe an upper middle class 394 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: woman at the time, who, unbeknownst to her, is reading 395 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: about things that were really seeded by a lot of 396 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: radical so sialist Yeah, and I think, I mean, the 397 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: socialist routs were definitely stronger in England during the rise 398 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: of their arts and crafts movement. In America, those socialist 399 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: tendencies were pretty much limited to the big urban center 400 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: society is not so much like your your rural Deerfield, 401 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: Massachusetts societies for aults and crafts. Yeah. And it was 402 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: in the sixties and the seventies with that Princeton professor 403 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: that you mentioned, Caroline, where he really uncovered this past 404 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: movement and the mostly male designers of note from the time, 405 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: and so you have that resurgence and no big surprise 406 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: that would happen at that time during so much social 407 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: upheaval in general and so many reactions against massive institutions. Yeah, 408 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: but I mean, it's it's interesting that a lot of 409 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: these crafting movements kind of circle around activities that are 410 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: so often considered a like a home sphere, a woman's 411 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: sphere activity kind of well, in speaking of which, that's 412 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: something that you see especially happening in the seventies because 413 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: you're now in second wave feminism, and so you see 414 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 1: a similar reclamation of women's work in artistic movements. Um. 415 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: And this is going back to to that paper we 416 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: mentioned called Fabricating Activism, craft Work, Popular Culture, and Gender 417 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: by Zach z Braditch and Heidi M. Brush Um, which 418 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: talks about craftivism, yes, but also how this gender play 419 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: so much into craft work and fabriculture, and in it 420 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: they talk about how sewing circles, quilting groups and the 421 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: like were organizing bodies of first wave feminism. And so 422 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: then in the seventies, with second wave feminism, you see 423 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: a return to those formerly deride a crass because oh, 424 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 1: this's just women's work. They're just doing that in the 425 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: home right. And it is those uh, basically those women's 426 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: work activities that are decried as they're they're not high art. 427 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: They're just making a quilt because they need a quilt. 428 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: It's there's no fine art about it. And you have 429 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: Lucy Lippard who ine WoT an essay called Household Images 430 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: in Art in which she says that during the Women's Movement, 431 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: women had the confidence to begin quote shedding their shackles, 432 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: proudly untying the apron strings and in some cases keeping 433 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: the apron on, flaunting it and turning it into art. Yeah. 434 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: And today you still see those undercurrents of female empowerment, 435 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: whether it's something as simple as the stay at home 436 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: mom who is stitching up her etsy wares to make 437 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: extra income after the kids go to sleep, or the 438 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: full time d I Y revolutionary who is literally trying 439 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: to change the world via crafting and craftivis um. Yeah. 440 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: Gene Reala, the founder of Get Crafty, who we mentioned earlier, 441 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: echoes this whole sentiment. She talked to The New York 442 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: Times in two thousand seven and said, I really came 443 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: to it from more of an indie rock to it 444 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: yourself kind of political place, sort of married with making 445 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: peace with feminism, and that echoes those second way feminists 446 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: back in the seventies like Miriam Shapiro who said, I 447 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: wanted to validate the traditional activities of women, to connect 448 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: myself to the unknown women artists who had made quilts, 449 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: who had done the invisible women's work of civilization. So 450 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: in that regard, crafting is really freaking politically significant. Yeah. 451 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: And it's more. It gets even more interesting today too, 452 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: when we see how more men are being brought into 453 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: this so called women's work. We have gender divide slowly 454 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: being brought down. Just in terms of Etsy, for instance, 455 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: twelve percent of the sellers are men, and there was 456 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: two thousand eight posts on the Etsy blog interviewing male sellers, 457 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: one of whom says that he often surprises people when 458 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: he talks about his sewing and knitting, and there is 459 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: still admittedly a gender divide in terms of quote unquote 460 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: manly craft like woodwork, leather work, and metallurgy. UM. I 461 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: also have a couple of guy friends who are really 462 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: into screen printing UM, both hobby and making their income. 463 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: UM and Harry Sawyers who's an associate editor at Popular 464 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: Mechanics magazine. He helped compile the new book Man Crafts 465 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: said that crafts and men definitely go together. It showcases 466 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: rough hewn skills like leather tooling and ax whittling well, 467 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that those guys out there who are 468 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: doing woodworking or knitting or screen printing, whatever it is, 469 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: share the same enjoyment of making something on their own, 470 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: being creative, being artistic, and taking time outside and away 471 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: from the this fast moving tech fueled mobile digital, you know, 472 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: just all consuming seven kind of paste that we're now 473 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: living in. And there was this inc story that we 474 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: read about this whole Etsy trend and basically like what 475 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: is going to happen to Etsy down the road with 476 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: its under its new CEO, Chad Dickerson, And it interviewed 477 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: this guy who had been working in a great, you know, 478 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: great office job, stable, making good money, but he was 479 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: just he felt so disconnected from the world at large 480 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: and and wasn't able to be the kind of creative 481 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: person that he wanted to be. So he ended up 482 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: starting to make leather goods like bags and stuff, and um, 483 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: he started to feel really fulfilled and it took off 484 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: and he was selling a bajillion bags, and finally he 485 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: was like, I can't even stay on Etsy anymore because 486 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: I followed my true passion and I'm making these bags 487 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: and I get to be creative, but there's no way 488 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: that I can keep up with consumer demand for my 489 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: stuff still stay quote unquote handmade on Etsy. Well, didn't 490 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: you mention at the top of the podcast with that 491 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: et S survey how a lot of people want to 492 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: keep their stores to a manageable size, which you can't 493 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: make a ton of things if you are one person 494 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: um and you have a lot of people, especially this 495 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: time of year where they are working seven speaking of 496 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: a seven environment, but working all hours just to meet 497 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: the holiday demand because so many people do want handmade. 498 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: Now it's actually taxing the people who are making all 499 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: of these goods. And so that is the big question 500 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: though for crafting, and especially with its intersection with Etsy 501 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: and how big Etsy has become. It's people wondering whether 502 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: or not that original ethos of small and environmentally conscious 503 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: and anti consumers, whether those philosophies have just been watered 504 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: down the larger that the business itself has gotten. Yeah, 505 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,719 Speaker 1: a lot of people are none too pleased with the 506 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: direction they see Etsy going because CEO Robert Kalin was 507 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: removed by the board recently and so Chad Dickerson took 508 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: over and it's Etsy has really flourished under him, depending 509 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: on what your definition of flourishes. I mean, um, there's 510 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: a lot more sellers making a lot more money. And 511 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: Dickerson really had to wrestle with the idea of how 512 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: do you make more money as a website as a 513 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: business when your sellers, your most successful sellers grow and 514 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: then are forced off the website, like that guy who 515 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: who made bags and you know, leather goods and stuff like, 516 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: once you hit a certain point on Etsy, you have 517 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: to go elsewhere. And so there they are trying to 518 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: find a way to keep more of their successful sellers 519 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: so you know, they can keep some of those dollars 520 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: in house. And so a lot of people are calling 521 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: et C like et C Bay now, saying it's getting 522 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: too big, and so they're wrestling now with calling the 523 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: idea of calling people designers, letting them be designers, so 524 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: you're you don't have to be a maker necessarily. You 525 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: can call yourself a designer, but outsource the production to 526 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: an actual manufacturer, to which some would say, oh, well, 527 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: why am I going on Etsy to buy something that 528 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: might ultimately be made in a sweatshop, even if it's 529 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: designed by someone in their home. So I mean, yeah, 530 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: it's gonna be interesting to see the direction that it 531 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: takes um and also the fact that the Ets style, 532 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: that kind of vintagy, kitchy, crafty look and aesthetic is 533 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: something that you're seeing more and more in any story 534 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: you walk into any kind of urban outfitters Forever twenty one. 535 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean they even what s even has a direct 536 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: partnership now with West Elm, which is owned by Williams Sonoma. Yeah. 537 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: I uh well, first of all, I love getting West catalogs, 538 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: and not that I can afford a single freaking thing 539 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: in there, but uh yeah, they do. They feature Etsy 540 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: made creations throughout their catalog. You know, they'll have a 541 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: living room set up, but they'll have art on the 542 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: walls or a vase on the table, and they'll have 543 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: a little blurb about the the artist. And for someone 544 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: who wants to make it a full time business, then 545 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: that's probably great. But then again, you just wonder where 546 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: is there going to be a moment of divergence again 547 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,479 Speaker 1: between the business path and more consumerist path and that 548 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: philosophical path, which makes me wonder if in twenty years, 549 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: fifty years, if we'll be going through yet another craft revival. Yeah, 550 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: and it should also be interesting to see kind of 551 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: where this this micro business economy goes, because the bulk 552 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: of sellers on at Sea for instance, are women, and 553 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: so what was the status was something like triple the 554 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: number of women own businesses documented by the U S Census. 555 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: You know that those are the et SE numbers. They're 556 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: sitting there own hours, they're not having to worry about childcare. 557 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: And but if we're not documenting them well enough and 558 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: they're not having a social safety net like health insurance, 559 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. It should be interesting to see where 560 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 1: these micro businesses, especially the women owned businesses, because they 561 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: seem to be behind the bulk of them, where they 562 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: will end up, Whether it will go in the direction 563 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: of being a solid supplemary income that women can rely on, 564 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: especially you know, think about single moms or just women 565 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: in general who might need some extra cash. Um, it's 566 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: becoming a new asset, a new answer with that giant 567 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: question mark that comes with working versus or plus motherhood 568 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: or whether or not, it's just gonna become so large 569 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: that those opportunities will gradually fade away. So I'll send 570 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: it on an up note though, since it's the holidays, 571 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: support handmade local goods. Yeah, I I for one, I'm 572 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: gonna visit Young Blood Boutique very soon to look for 573 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: a present for my boyfriend's mother, because you know, I mean, 574 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: it's always it just always looks more thoughtful, and it 575 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: was more thoughtful. I feel like to take time and 576 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: and look through handmade crafted things. Absolutely, and one of 577 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: my favorite things to do. Um sorry if you're one 578 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: of the million people that I've given this too, but 579 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things to do for presence is 580 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: go around to some of the local boutiques in Atlanta 581 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: and get family members local stuff, whether it's locally made 582 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: jams or locally made jewelry. I think that that feels 583 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: more personalized and thoughtful than going to Target. Yeah yeah, 584 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: all than nothing to get started. Hy, I shop there 585 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: all the time. So I hope that there are some crafters, 586 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: some makers, some artisans listening. We want to hear from you. 587 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: What do you think about the work that you're doing? 588 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: Do you feel compelled by any kind of political pilosophy, 589 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: or you're just doing it to make a buck um. 590 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: Have you thought much about this ets conundrum? Let us 591 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: know your thoughts. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is 592 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: where you can write us, and you can also tweet 593 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: us a mom Stuff podcast, or message us on Facebook. 594 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: And we've got a couple of messages to share with 595 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: you when we come right back from a quick break. 596 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: And now back to our letters. And we've got a 597 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: couple of letters here from our two part series that 598 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: we did on rape and sexual assault in the United States. 599 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 1: And this one is from Joseph and the subject line 600 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: is men's role in stopping rape. He writes, this has 601 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: been a very important subject to me as my wife 602 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: is a victim of rape and sexual assault. When hearing 603 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: these stories from her, I couldn't help but get angry 604 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: and encourage her to report the incidents to the police. 605 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: She did not, unfortunately, because she did not believe that 606 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: there was enough evidence for anything to be done. They 607 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: had occurred a while back before we met, and the 608 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,240 Speaker 1: perpetrator was someone you knew well. Feeling a bit helpless, 609 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: I turned to the internet for more information on how 610 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: to get involved in stopping sexual violence and increasing the 611 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: rate of reporting and my searches, I learned more and 612 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: more about rape culture and the social constructs around it. 613 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: Over time, I have come to notice, even in the 614 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: effort of understanding and stopping rape, the concentration is much 615 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: more on who gets raped and not on who commits rape. 616 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: Even the vocabulary concentrates on female victims of rape and 617 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: not sexual violence against women. After watching an amazing ted 618 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 1: talk from Jackson Cat's PhD, I came to the belief 619 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: that we should be talking more about men's sexual violence. 620 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: It has to be recognized that this is not a 621 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: woman's issue primarily, but instead it is first a men's issue. 622 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: Why our men's as actually violent and how do we 623 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: get men to be less violent are much more important 624 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: questions than why do so many women get raped? And 625 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: how do we stop women from getting raped? To end 626 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: this on a positive note, I have found that I'm 627 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: by no means the only guy out there trying to 628 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: change my way of thinking and that of my peers. 629 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: The Good Men Project and Men Can Stop Rape are 630 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: just a couple of organizations devoted to giving men guidance 631 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: on engaging other men in these topics and encouraging education 632 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: about consent. I hope you can at least mention our 633 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: two groups on the podcast, since I'm sure you have 634 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: plenty of male and female listeners who want to get involved. 635 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: Love the podcast, and thank you for having the courage 636 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: to speak openly and raise awareness. So thank you, Joseph. 637 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Evan. She is a 638 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: sophomore in high school. She says, I really want to 639 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,760 Speaker 1: thank you for your sexual assault series from these past 640 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: few weeks. It's an issue that's really close to my 641 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: heart and that seems to be horribly misrepresented in general 642 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: high school that's infamous with the constant stories about people 643 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: being sent home for wearing leggings to school and whatnot. 644 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,919 Speaker 1: I do have good news though. This past year, I've 645 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: noticed my school really taking initiative to bring rape culture 646 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: and especially slut shaming out of the dark. I'm a 647 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: columnist on my school paper, and last year we ran 648 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 1: a column about Todd Aiken's musings and our first issue 649 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 1: this year in September, we covered the Chicago slut Walk 650 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: on a front page and my slut shaming column was 651 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: in that issue as well. The reaction was overwhelming. Particularly 652 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: this year, we received a ridiculous number of letters from 653 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 1: people who have experienced slut shaming, as well as boys 654 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: telling us it got them thinking. The goal of a 655 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: colum is always to start a conversation, and so I'm 656 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: thankful to be in an educational environment that's accepting of 657 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: these discussions. I guess I just wanted to share a 658 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: positive experience regarding rape culture in the educational environment because 659 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: we hear so much about schools being unsupportive. Thanks again 660 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: for being so great, and thank you for being so great, Evan, 661 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: and participating in a very important discussion. Yeah, and hey 662 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: becoming a student journalist, Thank you and me cool, and 663 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: thanks to everybody who has written in Mom's Stuff at 664 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send us your letters. 665 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 666 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook. You can follow us 667 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,720 Speaker 1: on Tumbler at stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler 668 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,439 Speaker 1: dot com, as well as on Instagram at stuff Mom 669 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: Never Told You, And of course you can also check 670 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: us out on YouTube. It's YouTube dot com slash stuff 671 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You And don't forget folks to subscribe 672 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,439 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics works 673 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: dot com. Audible dot com is the leading provider of 674 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: downloadable digital audio books and spoken word entertainment. Audible has 675 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand titles to choose from to be 676 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: downloaded to your iPod or MP three player. Go to 677 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: audible podcast dot com slash stuff mom to get a 678 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 1: free audio book download of your choice when you sign 679 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: up today. That's Audible podcast dot com, slash stuff Mom.