WEBVTT - Rep Ro Khanna on the House Oversight Committee's Climate Disinfo Investigation and a Whole New Batch of Documents 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.879 Welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. The House Oversight 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:14.520 Committee has wrapped up its investigation into climate disinformation. They 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.560 haven't released their final report yet, but they have put 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.800 out a memo, and they have also published the last 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.319 batch of documents from the subpoenas that went out in 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:28.160 this investigation. Between the first batch and dispatch, there are 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:33.159 about fifteen hundred pages of internal emails, strategy documents, and 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.000 memos from the oil majors and the American Petroleum Institute, 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.559 and they tell a really interesting story. For me, as 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.080 someone who spends a lot of time looking at these 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.120 kinds of documents from the last one hundred years or so, 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.320 what's really striking is just how little the industry's strategy 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:54.280 has actually changed in the last decades. I guess if 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.880 it ain't broke, don't fix it. I've got longer analysis 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.320 of all of the details in these documents up at 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.200 Drilled podcast dot com and also in the intercept. I'll 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.679 drop links to those in the show notes. But today 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:08.959 I have with me one of the people who spearheaded 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:13.640 this investigation, Representative Rocanna. I asked him what really jumped 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.000 out at him in these documents, where the investigation might 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.680 lead in more. That conversation is coming up after this 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:21.560 quick break. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:30.720 Thank you for joining me. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:31.520 I appreciate it. 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.000 I'm sure lots of people are asking you questions about 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.880 this report and the new document's coming in, so I'm 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.360 curious to hear, first off, if there was anything in 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.840 this latest batch of documents that particularly jumps out to 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:48.200 you as very interesting or surprising, or something you want 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.240 to particularly draw folks attention to. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:51.960 Two things. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:59.120 First, the explicit strategy that greenwashing will give them quote 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:04.200 a license to further operate in entrenching the fossil fuel industry. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.280 And you saw that with the American Petroleum Institute and 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.959 Chevron and an MVP and number of companies. The idea is, Okay, 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:16.119 we'll cut in how we operate our plant, but we're 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.760 going to produce more and ultimately this is going to 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:23.720 be more emissions, and giving money about being a green 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.560 company actually will allow us to emit more. It's that cynical, 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.919 it's that explicit, it's in the documents. The second thing 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.080 is the culture of bullying, the fact that they want 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.840 bedbug bugs for Sunrise kids in the last tranch of documents. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.080 And then this tranch. We see that they are going 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:46.400 after a New York Times reporter, Roco, who covered the hearings, 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:51.800 pushing her off covering these hearings, trying to silence the 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.040 New York Times and intimidate the New York Times, and 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.560 we see that this has been their strategy with the press. 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.960 That's super interesting actually in the wake of the FTI 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.280 consulting reporting that Heroko did too, and knowing the relationship 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.200 between those guys and Exxon and all of these companies. 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.600 Really Broca's not covering it anymore, so he's been taken off, 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:17.359 So you know, Unfortunately, the big oil succeeds sometimes when 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:18.960 they engage in this kind of bullying. 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.800 Yeah, okay. I wanted to talk a little bit about 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.880 the university funding stuff that showed up, I think in 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.679 the BP documents and just the way that they talk 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:33.560 about how their funding of Princeton in particular and the 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:39.760 carbon project there allows them to kind of gain insight 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.840 into how their opponents are thinking about these things, and 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.720 also to influence the university and the research that's coming 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.240 out of their something that is a fascination of mind. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:55.200 Just why these companies invest so much in university research 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.720 and especially in not just the scientific and technical research, 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.400 but also public policy to have influence there. So I'm 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.800 curious just what you think of that and also the 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:11.240 extent to which university research does really influence policymaking. 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:18.880 Well, I am concerned because the huge gifts to these 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:23.440 research institutions could bias the research. And what you have 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.800 is a strategy by these big old companies to fund 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.960 research both at universities and nonprofits and then have that 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.240 research be seen as quote unquote objective evidence. And we 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:39.280 need a whole more investigation beyond what our committee did 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.039 on what is the strategy of funding research and how 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.680 objective is that research? And how do you create the 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.279 walls of separation between the fund to get the research 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:50.800 many which break down. 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.640 Yeah, yeah, I've heard even some of the campus activists 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.840 that are agitating for universities to not take any more 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.560 of this money are asking for step one to just 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:06.800 be transparency around it. You know that university should disclose 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.320 who they're taking money from and what the terms of 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:10.919 that money exactly. 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.760 Be a start, just who are you taking the money from, 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:19.360 what are the conditions? Look if they're giving money to studying, 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.760 you know Shakespearean literature, that's one thing, But if they're 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:27.920 giving money to have particular research on carbon and climate 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.320 that seems to be much more problematic. That needs to 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.479 at the very least be transparent with clear walls of separation. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:35.280 Yeah. 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.920 Do you think that the documents saying what they do 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:44.200 about this idea of a bridge fuel and gas will 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.960 put sort of an end to that narrative? Do you 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.520 think it makes it harder for these companies to continue saying, Oh, 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.840 it's a bridge, it's a bridge, it's a bridge. Do 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.920 you expect them to stop even trying to claim it. 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.440 Well, the documents, as you see, shows that they really 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.080 believe it's their end destination. 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.960 They internally are not even talking. 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.240 About it as a bridge. They're just talking about it 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.120 as this is what we're going to be moving towards. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.280 And that's why it's a wake up call. I think 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.200 for many people. If you care about moving to renewable, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.240 if you care about moving to energy efficiency, that's in 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.040 direct contradiction with the internal goals of these big oil companies. 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.679 I guess my biggest concern with the big oil companies 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.440 is the lack of honesty, right. I mean, if they 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.200 were out there just saying, look, we are all at 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.719 gas companies. We don't care about this emission thing. That's 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.479 not our problem. This is our business model, this is 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:39.240 what we're going to do. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.560 Then I would disagree strongly with it. But they're big, 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:43.600 honest to what they're doing. 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.560 The problem is that's not what they're representing because they 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.880 know the American public will put up with that. They 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.080 know their own shareholders won't put up with that. So 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.960 they're claiming to be something that they're not. They're claiming 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.520 to be greed what they aren't. And it's the duplicity 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.840 that is actually the most aggravate A gets shocking. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.520 What do you think could be done on the government 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:10.160 side of things to not enable that duplicity? So you know, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.920 the US government hasn't exactly been opposed to gas as 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:18.280 a bridge viuel itself. So to what extent could even 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.520 you know, the EPA fast treking methane rules for example, 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.800 or fast treking implementation of those rules, or I don't know, 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:31.080 regulating greenhouse gases under TOSCA, as you know, one petition 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.480 has asked them to do. What are things that could 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.360 be done that would maybe not stop the fossil fuel 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:40.080 companies from claiming these things but make it harder for 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:44.520 them to successfully make gas the destination. 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:48.840 Well, we tried and build back better. 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.680 And originally, as you know, there were rules to have 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.400 penalties for methane emissions. They were taken out partly because 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.640 of API at big oils advertising where there were targeting 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.920 specific members of Congress to oppose the methane rules. So 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.920 now it's up to the agency's EPA being the primary 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:13.480 one to help through executive action to have rules interpreting 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.080 the Clean Air Act and others that give them the authority. 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.400 And I'm hopeful that we will take action on that. 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.240 Methane is even worse in some ways than others. And 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.080 so let's see what EPA does. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.120 Given that control of the House is shifting, what could 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.120 happen next with the information that's come out in this report? 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.520 Could the Department of Justice get involved? Could we see 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:36.440 something in the Senate? 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:37.680 Well, I can tease some news. 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.320 We're going to be sending the documents to a couple 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.000 of key places, and obviously we still control the White House, 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.800 we still control the Senate, so this isn't the last 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:48.719 of the investigation. 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:49.800 Okay. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.559 Interesting, I also wanted to know or just get a 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.760 sense from you of how much do you think the 0:08:55.800 --> 0:09:00.120 current situation with Russia, Ukraine and raising gas prices, all 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.520 of this stuff has impacted this whole conversation. Do you 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.520 get a sense that the oil companies feel like, oh, well, 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.000 no one's going to be paying attention to this stuff 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.800 because we've successfully gotten people to focus on high gas 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:15.760 prices instead. 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.560 Well, that's definitely the big oil company strategy. But we 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.280 need to push back with the truth. Sheldon white House 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.760 and I have shown how a big oil is actually 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.800 having record profits and that what we need is to 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.040 hold them accountable with a windfall profits tax to lower 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.559 gas prices. And I highly recommend an op ed that 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.719 Sheldon white House wrote with Lindsay Graham saying that if 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:41.720 America cares about national security and independence from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.200 Venezuela Petro states, the biggest thing we need to do 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.160 is to move to renewable energy to not be as 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.560 dependent on fossil fuelds. So I think that we have 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.880 to do a better job making the national security case 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.840 at this moment of volatility and precarity because of Ukraine, 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.880 where we could say to people Look, we don't want 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.319 to be behold in this Audi Arabia, we don't want 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.720 to be beholden to Russia, and we don't want to 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.679 be beholden to our own big oil companies. Let's really 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:11.880 double down on renewable energy. 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.000 What's your response to folks who make the argument that 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.400 nationalizing the fossil fuel industry is also a solution to 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:24.240 the national security problem or reinstituting the export ban, which 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.040 I imagine would be impossible given the deal with the 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.520 EU that we currently have. But yeah, what's your answer 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.360 to those suggestions. 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.120 Well, I'm not for nationalizing it, but I am for 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.320 an export ban exempting our European allies. And that's not 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:42.800 something radical. That was policy until twenty fifteen, and it 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.040 seems to me we should have some policy that when 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.040 there is volatility on the price of gas, that we 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.640 prioritize the domestic market, and that seems a reasonable thing 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.760 to do the long term. While I support an export ban, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.160 the real long term solution is a moonshot on renewable energy, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.480 and we've got to just continue to make the case 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.079 that a moonshut on renewable energy is good for American consumers. 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.320 What better way to lower gas prices than to give 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.680 people an alternative to gas. What better way they have 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.320 national security not dependent on petro states than to have 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.240 a commodity that petro states don't own. 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.920 So I think we have to just be further in 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:23.800 making that case. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.920 Do you think that there's a good understanding in the public, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.640 or in the media for that matter, of how gas 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.080 pricing works, like enough to push back. The industry has 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:37.080 been very successful at entrenching this narrative that they have 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.480 nothing to do with gas pricing and that it's all 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.080 to do with environmental policy and pour them. Even though 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.040 I do think that the message about profits is starting 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.880 to break through. You know, people are starting to stay 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.400 wait a minute, these companies are historically profitable right now, 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.480 yet they're claiming that they can't do anything about this 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.440 gas price issue. How much do you think that the 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:03.240 public and the media are are able to push back 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:04.280 on that narrative. 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.719 Well, I think we need to do more. 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.600 And now they've done a good job in Europe, where 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.679 the big oil companies are paying a windfall profits tax. 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.000 Even conservative governments have done that because in Europe they 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.679 understand that these companies are making huge profits The difference 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.520 here is big oil has big money and they can 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.800 basically have these super packs and they give a lot 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.760 of money to Congress and said it so unlike Europe, 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.079 our politics are distorted by the money and the influence 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:31.720 of these. 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:32.680 Big oil companies. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.120 But we've got to get the facts out there that look, 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.280 we're almost at record production. By twenty twenty three, we're 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.400 gonna have record production in this country. So there's a 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.959 narrative that if we just produced more, that would be 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.199 the issue. That's just not true. We have record production 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.320 on natural gas. What is the issue. The issue is 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.199 that these big oil companies have been making a lot 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.560 of money at a time that they know they could, 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.320 where the price of oil has got up because of 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:58.679 international markets. 0:12:59.080 --> 0:12:59.880 What is the solution. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.000 The solution of volatility is to have an alternative product, 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.920 you know, And it's a pretty simple. If cars cost 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:08.440 a lot of money and then there is a new 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.679 product to be an alternative cars, that'd be less to 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.040 bad for cars. The price would cut out. Yeah, that's 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:13.720 all we're saying. 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.199 Yeah, I was talking to someone in Europe the other 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.120 day about European companies that are complying with these emissions 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.480 reductions in Europe and fighting them in the US, and 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.520 his comment as well. In Europe, it's sort of like 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.280 everyone accepts the fact that climate policy is going to 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.960 happen in the US, they still think there's a possibility 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.560 that they can stop it from happening or delay it 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.960 another ten years. And I think that we see it 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.040 in these documents too, there's a sense that the fight 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.120 is still on, seeing it in the response to the 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:53.240 IRA passage too, Like I'm seeing new reports coming out 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:57.360 that are kind of recycling stuff that people were arguing 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.640 twenty years ago about CO two greening the world and 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.360 how actually carbon emissions are a good thing for us. 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.960 I'm curious what you think about what might possibly put 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.200 an end to this. You know, we've been seeing kind 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.079 of the same talking points and the same strategies from 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.760 these companies for twenty thirty years now, and they don't 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.640 even need to come up with new ones because the 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.560 old ones still works. So having seen all of this 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.680 stuff from these companies, what do you think it would 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.480 take to get them to stop and actually transition. 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:31.720 One is accountability. 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.480 I mean, I think most people don't know how much 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.160 climate disinformation they've engaged it and there has to be 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.600 some enforcement in the agencies for proof and advertising, so 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.400 there should be requirements that they can't make misrepresentations about 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.440 these issues to their investors, to the American public. There 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.640 needs to be far more public awareness and public campaigns 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.120 to say, Okay, if you're going to claim that you're 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.560 going to meet the parisit courts, where is this, where 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.720 is the investment? And then that can be investor activists driven, 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.360 but ultimately it's going to take congressional standards and the 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:12.880 enforcement of that by agencies as well as investor activism. 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.160 One of the arguments that the oil companies are making 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.840 in court is a very nuanced free speech argument that 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:25.479 they say, in service of gaining particular policies is petitioning 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.800 speech and therefore protected by the First Amendment. And I'm 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:30.720 curious what you think of that argument. 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.160 That's if Exeon wants to say that we should have 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.560 less methane regulation, that's their first Amendment right. But what 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.480 is not their first Amendment right, in my view, is 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.320 to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to influence that. 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:49.200 Now under this current Supreme Court and Citizens United, unfortunately, 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.160 they've misinterpreted the Constitution to allow big money, but I 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:54.840 don't think big money is speech. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:56.960 And the other thing that's not their right is to 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:57.920 mislead people. 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:02.720 So even with free speech, you can't have misrepresentation to 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:07.520 your investors. Under sec reporting, you can't have misrepresentation to 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:13.360 the American public. And whether they legally are misrepresenting, certainly 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.280 ethically they're misrepresenting. 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.560 And that's what a lot of the documents are showing. 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.200 That's it for this time and for this year. Big 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:47.000 thanks to everyone for listening every week. Really appreciate you 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.280 taking the time and spending it with us. Also, super 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.240 big thanks to those of you who are supporting us, 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.760 either by subscribing to the newsletter or subscribing to our Patreon. 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.720 It's literally because of you that we can put this 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.480 out every week. If you would like to support our work, 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.720 go to Drilled podcast dot com sign up for the newsletter, 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.080 or patreon dot com slash drilled. In both cases you 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.600 will get a weekly rundown of climate coverage all the 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.520 stories and studies you should be paying attention to, as 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.800 well as at least monthly, if not more, deeper analysis 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:26.280 of things happening in the realm of climate accountability. Thanks again, 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:27.840 and we'll see you next year.