Speaker 1: NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. I feel like it's been a minute since
Speaker 1: we've been in the studio. Three weeks. Basically, that's a
Speaker 1: long time. What's a long time in life, I've been
Speaker 1: in the studio with you. We got a brand new
Speaker 1: edition of NFL Explained. I don't typically start with apologies.
Speaker 1: In fact, I'm one of those dudes. I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 1: going to apologize because throughout the course of season two
Speaker 1: of NFL explained, how many times if I usually get
Speaker 1: a kick out of it. I love doing it so much,
Speaker 1: I say, hey, send me the dms. Don't go into
Speaker 1: m Rob's dms. We're gonna get your questions. It has
Speaker 1: been so crazy in terms of East West Shrine Bowl,
Speaker 1: which I had. You got Pro Bowl, you got Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: you got get ready for the Combine, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: our episode today is about the Combine. You got all
Speaker 1: these things going on. I looked, this is when you
Speaker 1: know it's bad. I looked at the dms the other day. Okay,
Speaker 1: there was a ton of dms. This is God's honest
Speaker 1: ton of dms with questions praising you, by the way,
Speaker 1: nothing about me shows great and Rob's awesome, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're sending me the DM, which is part of it.
Speaker 1: But I will say this, I promise, because I always
Speaker 1: make it a point to say I get in touch
Speaker 1: with everyone. I promise at some point I'll get back
Speaker 1: to you. We're going to continue to roll on the
Speaker 1: NFL Screen podcast. I'm trying that. By the way. Also, congrats.
Speaker 1: How about Kansas City. Yeah, man Chiefs the chiefs Man,
Speaker 1: big time game. That was a great place man, awesome game.
Speaker 1: And yes, the Patrick Mahomes followed my Buffalo Bills fans
Speaker 1: and my Josh Allen. Butsuka comments, Patrick Mahomes is the
Speaker 1: best play and he got me. Oh my goodness, that
Speaker 1: was so awesome. But Hurts, he's up there. He is
Speaker 1: definitely good. There's a reason why he finished second in
Speaker 1: the MVP voting. By the way, since we're talking about
Speaker 1: Mahomes and Jalen Hurts, we did do an episode pretty
Speaker 1: recently on quarterbacks. The Goat's Mahomes's name did pop into
Speaker 1: this conversation, so highly encourage you to go back and
Speaker 1: take a listen to that one. All Right, I already
Speaker 1: sort of stole the thunder. I said, today's episode is
Speaker 1: about the Combine, and if you read the comments, you
Speaker 1: probably already knew that this episode was about the Combine.
Speaker 1: Your experience. I always say this about the NFL Combine.
Speaker 1: It is essentially a an underwear modeling competition, is how
Speaker 1: I describe it. Is that a fair assessment. It's very fair.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to be completely honest with you right now.
Speaker 1: My wife is going to get upset with me because
Speaker 1: we have gotten into arguments about this. We don't have arguments.
Speaker 1: We heated fellowship and it started I think about three
Speaker 1: years ago. My wife was like plastered in front of
Speaker 1: the TV. I didn't know what was going on, and
Speaker 1: she was like, Babe, this new show you guys have
Speaker 1: on NFL Network Combine or whatever. This thing is, Oh
Speaker 1: my goodness, And she did this little dance like this,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I got upset a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I had to check myself,
Speaker 1: my manhood a little bit because I knew where she
Speaker 1: was getting at some of the top genetic physical specimens
Speaker 1: in the college game, getting ready for the biggest interview
Speaker 1: of their lives and going to the National Football League.
Speaker 1: But yeah, had to throw it out there. My wife's
Speaker 1: gonna get a quick little laugh at that, and she'll
Speaker 1: probably remind me of that when I get back home
Speaker 1: after she listens to this episode. So here's the true
Speaker 1: in the India, right like you, you made a living
Speaker 1: playing professional football as an athlete, you're still in great shape. Here,
Speaker 1: I don't have that starting point. We were out the
Speaker 1: other day and we were watching the NBA All Star
Speaker 1: Break DK Metcalf coming down and I was like, crazy, yo,
Speaker 1: he is as like much of a freak zoids maybe
Speaker 1: there's ever been on the planet. I get the who
Speaker 1: is that? Oh, let me see? Go to Google images
Speaker 1: and it's all like and I'm like, what are we
Speaker 1: doing here? I set the dinner table. This is man,
Speaker 1: but I opened up the door for it. Your your
Speaker 1: combine experience didn't sound too positive. It wasn't Yeah, it
Speaker 1: wasn't that great of an experience. And it had nothing
Speaker 1: really to do with the talent evaluators or the teams.
Speaker 1: To me, it was myself. It was the fact that
Speaker 1: I was listening to my agent at the time and
Speaker 1: I didn't work out. I didn't throw at the combat,
Speaker 1: I didn't run at the combine. I did everything at
Speaker 1: my pro day. Just looking back again, hindsight is always
Speaker 1: twenty twenty looking back, when you see guys like Vince Young,
Speaker 1: Matt Line of guys like that that worked out and threw,
Speaker 1: you wish you would have been on the same field
Speaker 1: with those guys thrown at the same time. This is
Speaker 1: not uncommon, though, So why do you have those regrets
Speaker 1: because I've covered you know, this year, we obviously at
Speaker 1: our combat coverage on NFL Network, We're going to be
Speaker 1: airing it all the dudes running their forties, the position groups,
Speaker 1: the whole thing. I've also covered a ton of pro
Speaker 1: days over the years. It is not foreign for a
Speaker 1: guy to not run this forty at the combine and
Speaker 1: then run on his own college campus. So why so
Speaker 1: much of a regret for you? Well, the regret was, okay,
Speaker 1: we always we gotta put ourselves back what fifteen twenty
Speaker 1: years because the National Football League, just to me, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, wasn't ready for a Jalen Hurtzel, Lamar Jackson
Speaker 1: or Michael Robinson at the time. The scheme hadn't elevated
Speaker 1: to that yet, and so I was forced to kind
Speaker 1: of change my position and look at other positions, and
Speaker 1: so I decided not to throw, and again we had
Speaker 1: other quarterbacks throwing. And people have to understand when you're
Speaker 1: at the combine, it's not just the physical things that
Speaker 1: you're doing. I mean, this is a one of the
Speaker 1: biggest interviews of that these kids will ever go through,
Speaker 1: and it's really to see these guys and see how
Speaker 1: they respond and how they react amongst their contemporaries right
Speaker 1: at the common I remember being there in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six, finally seeing all the guys I saw on ESPN,
Speaker 1: all the college you know, Vinch Youngs, the Matt Liners,
Speaker 1: the Reggie Bushes, all the guys that you you know,
Speaker 1: you become fans of right and you get to see
Speaker 1: him and be around him and operate around him, and
Speaker 1: just being in those rooms and being in those conversations.
Speaker 1: I just look back and wish, man, if I could
Speaker 1: have been, you know, throwing my footballs so that teams
Speaker 1: are looking at it in comparison to Vinch Young or
Speaker 1: in comparison to any of the other quarterbacks at the time,
Speaker 1: maybe I would have got a shot playing quarterback in person.
Speaker 1: Because it's not it's not just film. It's literally bang
Speaker 1: bang bang, like quarterback Goos Quarterbackos. Yeah, it's right there,
Speaker 1: you know. And the talent evaluators they're all in the
Speaker 1: stands all around you, some of them all up on
Speaker 1: the field. And I remember because I did stay for
Speaker 1: a little bit part of the field workouts in the
Speaker 1: in the runs, they still call your name. I knew
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna run. I told everybody I wasn't gonna run.
Speaker 1: Michael Robinson, quarterback, number whatever, whatever. And you have to
Speaker 1: visually say no, And that does something to you because
Speaker 1: you gotta step up and say no. In the talent
Speaker 1: evataways are looking to send up. But I thought you
Speaker 1: would a beast of the East, Mike rob I thought
Speaker 1: you was the big ten player of the years. This
Speaker 1: is this how y'all get down? And yeah I was.
Speaker 1: I was a little pissed off about that, but I
Speaker 1: had already had it. I had already made the decision
Speaker 1: and had a plan not to run, not to work out,
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to jump out as that. Keep
Speaker 1: in mind, there's gonna be three hundred and nineteen total
Speaker 1: prospects to combine this year. There are only eleven players
Speaker 1: from non FBS schools. As far as the big name schools.
Speaker 1: So you can imagine Alabama, Georgia they're sending the most
Speaker 1: team and twelve players respectively, Florida, Michigan, LSU, TCU. Here
Speaker 1: we Gons they're sending nine em Is it about the tape?
Speaker 1: Is it more about what they do at the combine?
Speaker 1: Some of the guys might not even be working out,
Speaker 1: Like how do you separate yourself if you're in this
Speaker 1: year's class. Well, obviously game tape is gonna be everything, Right,
Speaker 1: what did you do when the lights were on? You know,
Speaker 1: you had to play a game, your university, your team,
Speaker 1: everybody's rooting for you, everybody's depending on you to do
Speaker 1: your job. How did you respond and how did you
Speaker 1: play in those situations? I think that's vitally important, and
Speaker 1: that's the most important when you go to the combine
Speaker 1: to I think talent evaluators are just saying, Okay, let
Speaker 1: me confirm what I saw on tape. Let me I
Speaker 1: saw this on tape. I saw this kid had great
Speaker 1: movement ability, or I saw that he had great football IQ. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me see in these standard drills, because these are
Speaker 1: all standard type drills, just a baseline, so that talent
Speaker 1: and valuators can have a baseline, a value you wait
Speaker 1: everybody off of. I think they're just coming to the
Speaker 1: combine to confirm and obviously get to know the prospects.
Speaker 1: And people don't realize, especially I work with some of
Speaker 1: these guys coming up at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: You can make a lot of hay off the field
Speaker 1: with these talented value with us. How you speak, how
Speaker 1: professionally you are with them, looking guys in their eyes,
Speaker 1: and being truthful, being truthful. I remember I had gotten
Speaker 1: to a fight in high school or whatever. I had
Speaker 1: no idea they we're gonna bring it up. But I
Speaker 1: remember Bill Parcels at the time brought it up. Hey man,
Speaker 1: you were in this little you know, scadattle when you
Speaker 1: were in high school. And I'm like what. And this
Speaker 1: was just after he asked me what my favorite offensive
Speaker 1: play was and I told him I liked the curls
Speaker 1: on the outside of the streets going down whatever. And
Speaker 1: it just I don't know what kind of threw me
Speaker 1: for a loop. But don't lie. They know pretty much everything. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what about the difference between how a guy executes
Speaker 1: at the combine where it's a little bit of I
Speaker 1: don't want to say an unsettled environment, but it's new
Speaker 1: for these guys. When you're on your home campus for
Speaker 1: your pro days, it's I mean, it's comfort. You wake
Speaker 1: up in your bed, you're doing all the things that
Speaker 1: you're used to. You know, you're saying a lot of
Speaker 1: the cafeteria person that you usually have pregame meals. You're
Speaker 1: probably working with the wide receivers. It's your dudes that
Speaker 1: are out there. Like I would imagine, it is a
Speaker 1: much more beneficial experience to do well at the pro
Speaker 1: day compared to the combine. It is because, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's your natural environment. You controlled all the controllables and
Speaker 1: all of those things. But when you're in Indy, when
Speaker 1: again that environment, they're not a talent Evaluators aren't expecting
Speaker 1: these athletes to be perfect. Sure, they just want to
Speaker 1: see you compete. They just want to see you step
Speaker 1: up to the challenge and go out there and go play.
Speaker 1: When you go to pro days, now it's on your terms, right,
Speaker 1: you can go out there and do the things and
Speaker 1: set up things just the way you want to. I remember,
Speaker 1: if you remember just a few years ago to Johnny
Speaker 1: Menzel Pro Day, how everybody was hooping and hollering about
Speaker 1: all he had the music, he had to show it,
Speaker 1: so on he had to pass. He controlled the control
Speaker 1: bibles and elevated himself and he was taken in the
Speaker 1: first round. So the pro day is important, But I
Speaker 1: would say that, especially for people in my situation, that
Speaker 1: wasn't a surefire top ten type of a pick. You
Speaker 1: got to go to the combine and make some noise. Okay.
Speaker 1: I was in Vegas a couple of weeks back for
Speaker 1: the East West Shrine Bowl, talk to a bunch of
Speaker 1: different scouts and this is it was something that I
Speaker 1: had already known, but it was reiterated again a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks back. And that's this idea of getting to
Speaker 1: know the player. I mentioned some of the questions that
Speaker 1: are going to be asked. What I think is fascinating
Speaker 1: is these guys go to Indie. You decide to go out, Well,
Speaker 1: guess what, like you, M Rob like I might work
Speaker 1: for the Giants, right, like you might kind of know
Speaker 1: who I am. Maybe you don't. But then m Rob
Speaker 1: deceives me and goes, hey, that dude might work for
Speaker 1: the Giants. I shouldn't be here. I go to the
Speaker 1: next place. Well, guess what my boy who works for
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say the Jets, but let's just call he's
Speaker 1: at that other spot. I get the text message, you'll
Speaker 1: m Rob's over here, maybe doing some stuff. I am
Speaker 1: fascinated by the personality aspect of also understanding now there
Speaker 1: was a high draft pick top ten guy from last year.
Speaker 1: I heard the same story twice now from two different people. Hey,
Speaker 1: this dude was in Indie getting after it at one place.
Speaker 1: We told him like, might not be the best. Look,
Speaker 1: went to another spot. Their boys sent to text passions
Speaker 1: said hey, I saw this guy maybe getting it after
Speaker 1: a little bit too hard. I tell young people all
Speaker 1: the time that's going through this process because you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of former athletes work with guys. You know,
Speaker 1: whether our agent brings you in to talk to the
Speaker 1: group or whatever. And I just tell guys, look, man,
Speaker 1: this has been one of the longest interview processes of
Speaker 1: your life. Don't mess it up. You know almost at
Speaker 1: the bag, man, don't mess it up. Like, why would
Speaker 1: you go to Indie and go out that Yams? That
Speaker 1: wasn't even in my thought process, Like I wasn't even
Speaker 1: thinking about going out like that. Wasn't even a thing
Speaker 1: that was even possible. Let me tell you, I was
Speaker 1: upset because they told me I had a drug test
Speaker 1: at five in the morning one day, and I got
Speaker 1: up at four thirty in the morning unconsciously and use
Speaker 1: the bathroom, And so I had to drink so much
Speaker 1: water or whatever in the morning to go take the
Speaker 1: drug test right before I had to do my official
Speaker 1: way in, so my weight was inflated and it just
Speaker 1: totally pissed me off and messed up my day. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, But the point I'm
Speaker 1: trying to make you go there for a reason. You're
Speaker 1: going there for a business trip. You don't go there
Speaker 1: to go out. I can't believe that guys are doing that.
Speaker 1: Just anyone who's listening to this podcast, I just want
Speaker 1: you to just take a moment and listen to what
Speaker 1: m Rob just said. Using the bathroom at four thirty
Speaker 1: in the morning messed up something in terms of how
Speaker 1: you were evaluate. Yeah, I believe so, because again I
Speaker 1: wanted to be a certain way. Yeah, I had lost
Speaker 1: a certain amount of weight I had, you know, I
Speaker 1: was a certain shape and frame and broad drunks much
Speaker 1: water before I had to win because I had to.
Speaker 1: They would not allow you to go through with the
Speaker 1: rest of your schedule until that drug tests happened. So literally,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting up in there. There's a couple of other
Speaker 1: guys I can't remember the name after. I'm just sitting
Speaker 1: up in there, like, dude, you woke up and yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I forgot all of us we got I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just something that happened. And then the schedule. Then you
Speaker 1: end up going being late behind everybody to explain to everyone.
Speaker 1: I pad at four thirty, Yeah I messed up. And
Speaker 1: they're sitting and and and in my head, I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: because it's all interview for me, I'm thinking, are they
Speaker 1: gonna think that I'm that dumb too? Oh? Like, come on,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm all the layers around it. It's
Speaker 1: all the layers. That's why I said, like, it's kind
Speaker 1: of fascinating you hear about this small, little innocuous moment
Speaker 1: that you don't even think about, and then how it
Speaker 1: kind of dramatically alters things moving forward. All right, Welcome
Speaker 1: back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Yam and Rob
Speaker 1: with you and Rob mentioned some of these questions we've
Speaker 1: heard the crazy ones that are out there. Brandon Vinnie
Speaker 1: had sent you know some of the list care I
Speaker 1: almost don't. I hadn't heard this one. I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: with it anyway, just because I wasn't aware of this one.
Speaker 1: How many ways could you use a paper clip? That
Speaker 1: allegedly was an actual question where you asked that that
Speaker 1: was a real question. That's what did you use a
Speaker 1: paper clip? Maybe that must be one of those am
Speaker 1: I t I Q questions? Right? Trying to normal function
Speaker 1: to like keep papers together? Yeah, unpick a lock, not
Speaker 1: that I don't know. I've seen it in movies. Trying
Speaker 1: to answer this question right now? And then um, I
Speaker 1: don't know, like borderline dart, I don't know what else
Speaker 1: I am questions? Yeah, I mean it was something that
Speaker 1: was conscious with me when I was getting some of
Speaker 1: these questions about my grandparents and you know, uh, you
Speaker 1: know what male is around in the house and things
Speaker 1: like that. So that's something that really stood out to me.
Speaker 1: But I mean the big question that I kept on
Speaker 1: getting was bro Number one, are you married to the
Speaker 1: quarterback position? Because we I saw that you led the
Speaker 1: team and receiving, we saw that you was behind Larry
Speaker 1: Johnson and rushing to football. One year, we saw that
Speaker 1: you would back up throwing. I mean, what position do
Speaker 1: you really want to play? That was a big one
Speaker 1: in number two. How did you answer that? I answered it.
Speaker 1: My goal was to be in the National Football League,
Speaker 1: not be a quarterback in the National Football League, but
Speaker 1: I would I owe it to myself to give myself
Speaker 1: every opportunity to be a quarterback in this league. So
Speaker 1: all I ask, if you draft me, watch me take snaps,
Speaker 1: watch me throw the football, and if you deem I
Speaker 1: need to go to another position, cool, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: That's such a reasonable response. Did you work on that
Speaker 1: with your agent? I mean, I imagine like there's preparation,
Speaker 1: Like you know you're gonna be ask certain questions. When
Speaker 1: I had my interview at NFL Network, I had an
Speaker 1: idea of a few things that we're going to be asked.
Speaker 1: You you kind of have some thoughts in your head.
Speaker 1: You knew that question was coming. I knew the question
Speaker 1: was coming, but something a little deeper. You gotta be
Speaker 1: real with yourself. And oftentimes I see young people they
Speaker 1: just real with themselves, like they everybody thinks they're the
Speaker 1: best and always the best in this that in the
Speaker 1: third I looked at my situation and I looked, I said,
Speaker 1: how many quarterbacks that look like me to play the
Speaker 1: game that I play is in the National Football League
Speaker 1: having success? Right now? What minute? I mean? You had
Speaker 1: Michael Vick, You has some guy And so when you
Speaker 1: look at it from that situation, you just had to
Speaker 1: be real with yourself. And I just thought I owed
Speaker 1: it to myself five years of chasing this quarterback dream
Speaker 1: in college, that you just give me an opportunity to
Speaker 1: take a snap after that, if you don't like what
Speaker 1: you see, I'll do what I need to do to
Speaker 1: make a living. Okay, So in the long run, that's
Speaker 1: probably the right approach, right because you're staying true to
Speaker 1: yourself and the team that's considering bringing you onto their
Speaker 1: roster knows what they're getting. Yeah, I'll flip it and say,
Speaker 1: maybe you're a little too forthcoming, maybe you're a little
Speaker 1: too honest. You know, I've talked to enough players where
Speaker 1: you go, is that how you really feel? Or is
Speaker 1: that what you were trained to say? And that response
Speaker 1: right like, don't give them too much straddle defense a
Speaker 1: little bit. I don't know what general managers and team
Speaker 1: personnel are thinking like, is that a good thing? Is
Speaker 1: it a bad thing? If you're the face of my franchise,
Speaker 1: are you a little bit of a loose cannon where
Speaker 1: you're gonna be saying stuff that I don't want you
Speaker 1: to say, And maybe being borning is good. I used
Speaker 1: to cover baseball back in the day. You go into
Speaker 1: the Yankees locker room, Derek Jeter was the worst postgame
Speaker 1: interview because Derek Jeter wasn't going to say a damn
Speaker 1: thing and go get you mine, not going to give
Speaker 1: you anything. One. I used to cover my team, the Mets.
Speaker 1: You go in there, PA would be friendly with you
Speaker 1: that you got the kids, you know, running around and
Speaker 1: the music going different vibe. But I don't know what's
Speaker 1: better like, And I don't know how general managers and
Speaker 1: coaches would sit there and go, hey do I want
Speaker 1: this on my squad? Well, I think you know the situation.
Speaker 1: Obviously it has to give context everything, and I think
Speaker 1: just look at my specific situation. I think teams appreciated
Speaker 1: the honesty, appreciated that I was able to see myself
Speaker 1: for truly who I am. Sure you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And oftentimes we get kids who and people in their
Speaker 1: lives who just keep both of them up, keep pushing
Speaker 1: them up, keep pushing up. Which is all good. Is
Speaker 1: okay to have praise and things like that, but at
Speaker 1: some point you gotta be honest with yourself. And again,
Speaker 1: like I started by answering this question, By this, my
Speaker 1: goal was to play in the National Football League, not
Speaker 1: being an NFL quarterback. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: those two principles stuck in my head and I wanted
Speaker 1: to make and guarantee the bag, not necessarily the bag
Speaker 1: at quarterback. Okay, So then there's the actual drills right right,
Speaker 1: Like the forty is the one that stands out. I mean, hell,
Speaker 1: I've done shows this year. I'm still referencing dudes forty
Speaker 1: times because when it's spectacular and then you see it
Speaker 1: in real time on the field. How many times have
Speaker 1: you and I have talked about this on Total Access?
Speaker 1: Tarik Wolan goes out there and you're like, yo, he
Speaker 1: was fast at the combine, and damn that dude might
Speaker 1: be faster on the football field. Like it's crazy the
Speaker 1: context around some of this stuff. I don't know. You
Speaker 1: tell me the drills like forty to me. Sometimes feels
Speaker 1: completely irrelevant depending on the position. Sometimes it's totally relevant
Speaker 1: in the situation that I just made reference to Tyreek Wolan.
Speaker 1: I think it's relevant in almost every position, honestly, and
Speaker 1: know people may be sampled, Mike rob I mean, if
Speaker 1: an offensive lineman has to sprint forty yards like that,
Speaker 1: your team's probably gonna lose, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: if you got to do it that much work. But
Speaker 1: when you look at the forty with the big guys,
Speaker 1: you're really were looking at the first ten yards, You're
Speaker 1: really looking at the get off, You're really looking at
Speaker 1: different aspects of the forty. And people have to understand
Speaker 1: we have to have some type of uniform way to
Speaker 1: basically test guys for just basic athleticism. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what the forty does. That's what the change of
Speaker 1: direction drills do. And then when you get into the fieldwork,
Speaker 1: obviously it goes more into your position specific types of areas.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, I think the command does a good job.
Speaker 1: But if at least showcasing the athleticism of the genetics
Speaker 1: we have in our league. Okay, so basic athleticism depending
Speaker 1: on positioning group, I'm gonna throw a group of your way.
Speaker 1: You just tell me what the drill matters the most.
Speaker 1: Quarterback seems obvious to me. But it was obvious too,
Speaker 1: I would say throwing right, job, I was nervous, shut
Speaker 1: shuttle subtly, So are you kidding me? Let's go no
Speaker 1: throwing and obviously accuracy ball placement, um, how fluid the
Speaker 1: ball comes out of your hands. But I will say this,
Speaker 1: what guys like Lamar Jackson, what guys like Jalen Hurts um.
Speaker 1: Some people can put justin fields in this category. I
Speaker 1: think the forty and the movement skills are gonna start
Speaker 1: to become more and more important for evaluating that position,
Speaker 1: because again, the more that position runs, the more of
Speaker 1: this game becomes eleven on eleven. All right, I love
Speaker 1: the forty. Can I have a little confession here? What's
Speaker 1: my favorite thing to watch when I go to any
Speaker 1: of the pro days? Or the words? Really? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know why because you know when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and was I the only kid who did this? But
Speaker 1: you'd walk through a doorway and like you just try
Speaker 1: to hit the top of the doorway. But I don't
Speaker 1: call my wife all the time. Yes, like the problem
Speaker 1: is like a three sixty. So, like you know, I
Speaker 1: used to go when I lived on the East Coast
Speaker 1: and I was closer to family, you know, the Fisher Price.
Speaker 1: I was a Fisher Price all Star man with my
Speaker 1: little cousins dunking on the Now one of them is
Speaker 1: like my height. I'm like son of a man once
Speaker 1: you get good. It's happen genetics, not on our side
Speaker 1: of the family, his dad's side anyway. Besides the point,
Speaker 1: but the vert's always cool to me because it just
Speaker 1: reminds me of my childhood. And I do think that
Speaker 1: there's some of the fact that I really can't jump
Speaker 1: all that high and the knees aren't there anymore. But
Speaker 1: wide receiver, tight end, Like, I don't know how important
Speaker 1: the vertical is for some of those guys. Maybe it is,
Speaker 1: But are there some other drills that if you were evaluating,
Speaker 1: you'd say, hey, I need my wide receiver or tight
Speaker 1: end to be really good in this drill. The vert
Speaker 1: and the broad to me, that correlates to the explosiveness
Speaker 1: that you'll see maybe in the start of their forties
Speaker 1: or maybe really yeah, maybe because just think about it,
Speaker 1: you're not running, you're just seeing how far you can
Speaker 1: jump from a stand still, and it just shows explosiveness.
Speaker 1: And this is not the exact science, but I feel
Speaker 1: like if you look back on some of the biggest,
Speaker 1: you know, broad jumps and verts, they're gonna have some
Speaker 1: of your fastest times. I mean to me that that
Speaker 1: that's just if you're super explosive off a single leg
Speaker 1: or both legs, it's gonna make you move faster. Old line,
Speaker 1: old line. What I got for the old line ten
Speaker 1: yards splitting the forty very important, very very important. I
Speaker 1: will go again to the broad jump and obviously the
Speaker 1: old line change of direction drills, and again I go
Speaker 1: to broad jump, and this is just for me. I
Speaker 1: go to those drills because it shows the bend in
Speaker 1: the hips. It shows the explosiveness from the biggest muscle
Speaker 1: in there in these kids bodies, the hips, and it
Speaker 1: oftentimes shows how powerful they can be at moving people
Speaker 1: off the ball, because again, if they can sink and
Speaker 1: get in their hips and be explosive from their hips,
Speaker 1: they can move people. Is it the same exact thing
Speaker 1: just on the flip side for the D line pretty much?
Speaker 1: I mean that's a big but two sumo wrestlers going
Speaker 1: back and forth, just pushing weight back and forth. But
Speaker 1: for the d line, and I do like to see
Speaker 1: them kind of run the whole forty and just see
Speaker 1: what their delta time the last twenty yards would be,
Speaker 1: and just see how they finish. It really is spectacular
Speaker 1: when some of those dudes can Also You're like, how
Speaker 1: does it dude that big run that fact? It's amazing.
Speaker 1: It is really amazing, yams to see six six, six seven,
Speaker 1: two ninety pounds run four to five and people don't realize,
Speaker 1: like a Kuombolt and one of the greatest receivers our
Speaker 1: league has ever seen, ran a four six four six
Speaker 1: is not slough, you know what I'm saying. It's actually fast.
Speaker 1: But we get so enamored with these fast times and
Speaker 1: things like that we don't necessarily realize it. dB. Similar
Speaker 1: to what you would say for the wide receivers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously for defensive backs being able to track the football
Speaker 1: while it's in the air. Like you look at dbs
Speaker 1: and wide receivers right, like they're the same, dude, one
Speaker 1: can catch one camp. Yeah, that's how we look at
Speaker 1: them and see the differentiation. And oftentimes the great defensive
Speaker 1: backs are the guys that can catch I e. Richard Sherman,
Speaker 1: former wide receivers. So they have a great They do
Speaker 1: a great job at tracking the football, and you won't
Speaker 1: see them flip their hips and getting it out of breaks.
Speaker 1: To see how fluid they are in the hips. It's
Speaker 1: gonna let you know how fast they can break on
Speaker 1: out driving routes. Twenty years ago, if I asked you
Speaker 1: about linebackers, would your answer be the same as it
Speaker 1: is today. No, man, I think the lineback I think
Speaker 1: we're seeing a transformation of the linebacker position. It happened
Speaker 1: right before eyes. Obviously, you have the outside guys who
Speaker 1: are basically pass rushers, right they rushed the passer, you know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes Von Miller's an outside linebacker in his defense. And
Speaker 1: then you got the stand up inside type of linebackers
Speaker 1: like the Roquan Smiths and guys like that. I do
Speaker 1: think it takes different skill sets for those guys. Now. Again,
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, they were more thumpers, more bangers, and
Speaker 1: I think now you have to see movement ability from
Speaker 1: those guys. What about the dudes out of the backfield
Speaker 1: running backs? Oh my gosh, right, my guys. Right, I
Speaker 1: think the forty is important for running backs. I want
Speaker 1: to see whether this guy's gonna make defensive coordinator stay
Speaker 1: up all night. And what I mean by this, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of running backs who can put the ball
Speaker 1: in the right place and get the number of yards
Speaker 1: the play was designed to be blocked for sure, right
Speaker 1: you know, seventy power going to the left, pulling the
Speaker 1: guard that plays usually going to get you between I
Speaker 1: don't know, four to six yards, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: If your back has got something with him, he can
Speaker 1: get ten to twelve. If he's really special, he'll get through.
Speaker 1: If you got a running back that's in that four
Speaker 1: four four three range, and when he gets to the
Speaker 1: second level he can pull away from defensive backs. That's
Speaker 1: what scares defensive coordinators. And so yeah, look at the
Speaker 1: forty drill obviously the running back change of direction, types
Speaker 1: of drills, and can he catch out of the backfield.
Speaker 1: If he can catch out of the backfield, I don't
Speaker 1: have to sub him on third down. I was working
Speaker 1: with Lt. Ladamian Thominson the other day and someone asked
Speaker 1: him this question in one of our meetings, and I'm
Speaker 1: curious how you would respond to this. How do you
Speaker 1: measure a running back and pass pro. Is there a drill?
Speaker 1: Is there something that's specific at the combine because it's
Speaker 1: such a huge part and we always talk about the
Speaker 1: physical attributes of these guys and what you just characterize
Speaker 1: running down field. Is there a burse where there's real separation,
Speaker 1: because that's going to create a nightmare for a defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator and for the dudeis try to track him down.
Speaker 1: But passpor is such an important part of the game,
Speaker 1: and these guys are asked to do it, it almost
Speaker 1: feels like you're not doing anything at the comboy to
Speaker 1: measure that you can't. Yeah, that's what you can't. You
Speaker 1: cannot do a drill to measure whether a guy can
Speaker 1: be great at pass pro. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: you see some of the elite backs you'll come into
Speaker 1: our league struggle with pass pro at first, because oftentimes
Speaker 1: in college they're never asked, they not asked to do
Speaker 1: a lot of it. And be honest, witche jams. In
Speaker 1: the National Football League, the only time you go live passpro.
Speaker 1: You may get it, you know, two or three times
Speaker 1: during training camp, sure, and then you're in the game,
Speaker 1: and that's really the only time that you can do it.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, that's tough man. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: words for the draft is twitchy. Like if you played
Speaker 1: the game at home, anytime you heard the word twitchy,
Speaker 1: it'd be a whole lot of fun. It is a
Speaker 1: little bit of a cliche. But coming up next, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about some of the specific traits for players and
Speaker 1: why some of those twitchy type words are actually important.
Speaker 1: That's coming up next on NFL Explained. Back here on
Speaker 1: the NFL's Playing Podcast, Mike Am and my Super Bowl
Speaker 1: champ Michael Robinson, we continue to discuss the combine. Quarterback
Speaker 1: height seems to be a little bit of question mark
Speaker 1: and in this year's draft, and we're gonna see him
Speaker 1: at the combine and Bryce Young from Alabama in the
Speaker 1: top three at his position. He's six feet tall. It
Speaker 1: just maybe a little on the shorter end. I see
Speaker 1: you kind of like, that's a little on the shorter end.
Speaker 1: But but Yams and I don't know, I'm following the comment, bro,
Speaker 1: But to me, it's not the height with Bryce Young,
Speaker 1: it's about the heart. That's That's what I've been telling
Speaker 1: people for years. Well, honestly, it's it's the one hundred
Speaker 1: and ninety four taking a beating. That's what scares me.
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily height. We've seen Russell Wilson five eleven
Speaker 1: six feet in that six foot range still be able
Speaker 1: to operate in an Ask footballleague. Colin Murray, again, he's
Speaker 1: a shorter guy, but these guys are thicker lower body.
Speaker 1: These guys are a little bit more compact, and they
Speaker 1: can kind of handle the riggers. Look, when you're a
Speaker 1: shorter guy, oftentimes in your protection, you gotta find the
Speaker 1: throwing lane. For instance, when you look at that Super
Speaker 1: Bowl Super Bow forty nine, Malcolm Butler intercepted that pass
Speaker 1: from Russell Wilson. Sure, if you look at the pass
Speaker 1: that was the passing lane, Russell really couldn't see or
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be able to throw over anybody that was
Speaker 1: the passing lane. That protection was designed so that the
Speaker 1: lane was where the slant was. And so that's what
Speaker 1: you have to do with the shorter guys. In that
Speaker 1: same game, you saw Tom Brady throw over somebody to
Speaker 1: hit Julian Edelman for a touchdown. When you have height,
Speaker 1: you can throw over guys and it allows you to
Speaker 1: play quarterback a little bit better. Okay, so flip at
Speaker 1: them what's the advantage if you're a shorter guy, because look,
Speaker 1: the reality is we don't not every dude to six
Speaker 1: to five and you know flamethrower out there. Well, the
Speaker 1: advantages you get lost man defensive guys, these big six
Speaker 1: six six five defensive guys trying to get after guys
Speaker 1: like a Russell Wilson, Coller Murray and guys like that too.
Speaker 1: A little bit shorter, they're actually able to get out
Speaker 1: of trouble a little bit better. But yes, oftentimes when
Speaker 1: they get a little bit of pressure, they have to
Speaker 1: retreat and move so that they can see. That's what
Speaker 1: that's what happens if we have a smaller quarterback. But
Speaker 1: again it's the one hundred ninety four pounds because I
Speaker 1: don't mean to say this because he went to Alabama
Speaker 1: as well, but I look at two what six foot
Speaker 1: two hundred and seventeen pounds. I don't think he's two
Speaker 1: hundred seventeen pounds. I stood next to him when he
Speaker 1: when they played in that Buffalo game. I didn't think
Speaker 1: he was that big. And again, his issue has been
Speaker 1: protecting himself from hitting the ground, something that I think
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to look at Okay, I want to
Speaker 1: throw another measurable your way at the quarterback spot. It
Speaker 1: was a huge conversation a season ago. You know exactly
Speaker 1: where I'm going with this, Kenny Pickett, we heard about
Speaker 1: hand side got little hands. Broka. I'm just saying, dog,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna throw this your way. How about this,
Speaker 1: statistically speaking, Russell Wilson notoriously large hands? Right? Okay, you
Speaker 1: would know you were teammates with him. I don't rush
Speaker 1: shook his hands. Russell can dap you b and his
Speaker 1: middle finger hits your elbow. Okay, So what you're saying
Speaker 1: is not small hands for Russo. But how about this now?
Speaker 1: Alex Smith? Also, Um, this was a conversation around Alex
Speaker 1: Smith back in the day when he was drafted by
Speaker 1: the Niners. Wilson, who's got the large chance that you
Speaker 1: made reference to in a large you know, middle finger
Speaker 1: that would my elbow? Okay? A career fumble rate that's
Speaker 1: higher than Smith's. Are we getting off the rails here?
Speaker 1: Yes we are. He's taken a few or more sacks.
Speaker 1: But are we making too much of a bigger deal
Speaker 1: when it comes to a hand size for a quarterback? Um?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say yes and no. Yes, we are making
Speaker 1: a little bit of a bigger deal because it's not
Speaker 1: like every quarterback had the biggest hands in the world.
Speaker 1: You know, there's been successful quarterbacks that has smaller hands.
Speaker 1: Michael Vick has smaller hands. That's one of the knocks
Speaker 1: on me. They keble saying, man, your hands are like
Speaker 1: Michael Vings Man, you got runner hands. I'm like, whatever
Speaker 1: the hell that means? Um when you when you look
Speaker 1: at these quarterbacks with the with the bigger with the
Speaker 1: bigger hands, that's when you get the weird at arm
Speaker 1: angles and the Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen crazy throws,
Speaker 1: and you know, you see the Russell Wilson looked like
Speaker 1: he's at short stop throwing the football. Sometimes, to me,
Speaker 1: when a guy has larger hands, whether doesn't affect him,
Speaker 1: height doesn't affect him as much getting the ball out
Speaker 1: and slinging the football, and having Aaron Rodgers another one,
Speaker 1: having being able to get the ball out of weird
Speaker 1: arm angles. They that just doesn't affect these guys. Okay,
Speaker 1: So lengths to me in certain spots makes all the
Speaker 1: difference in the world than it becomes obvious. I was
Speaker 1: talking to a coach a couple weeks ago, college coach
Speaker 1: who was telling me about one of his guys who
Speaker 1: will see it the combine and his length and how
Speaker 1: important it was, and I watched him in up practices
Speaker 1: in Vegas. I'm like, damn, that coach wasn't lying like this.
Speaker 1: This dude is freaking long. From a lineman standpoint, offensive line,
Speaker 1: I always talk about the reach of these guys. How
Speaker 1: important is that reach because in some instance we're talking
Speaker 1: about like an inch half an inch, Like, is it
Speaker 1: that meaningful? It's huge? No kidding, yeah, I mean think
Speaker 1: about it. If you a guy out six six sixty
Speaker 1: seven and you put your arms out and you're leaning
Speaker 1: a little bit and you're blocking somebody and you're fully extended,
Speaker 1: you're that much further away from the quarterback. It makes
Speaker 1: the guy run that much further. I'm talking about offensive
Speaker 1: lineman having to get to the quarterback. And people don't realize, Yes,
Speaker 1: offensive line play and trench play it's a very physical affair.
Speaker 1: But when you talk to any offensive line coach or
Speaker 1: anybody that that's played in the trenches, it's all about hands,
Speaker 1: it's all about arms, it's all about that punch. The
Speaker 1: defensive guys are so much more athletic. You just want
Speaker 1: to get him like stopped for a second, and that
Speaker 1: punch it does just that. So yeah, I mean length
Speaker 1: for all offensive linement vitally important. And I can even
Speaker 1: go for the pass rushers too, being able to have
Speaker 1: those long arms to be able to shed an offensive
Speaker 1: linement and disengage. That's what the length means for defensive players.
Speaker 1: Just real quick on the length of some of these players.
Speaker 1: When you look at a guy and you know that
Speaker 1: he's long, have you ever been fooled? Because sometimes I
Speaker 1: look at it, dude, and I go, he's really long,
Speaker 1: And then you see the measurables after and I go, what, Like,
Speaker 1: he looks bigger than what he actually is. It doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense to me. Well, first of all, is a
Speaker 1: guy slouched over? And how's it with this posture? Looked like? Look,
Speaker 1: all of those things can affect what a guy looks
Speaker 1: like as opposed to his actual measurables. But I mean,
Speaker 1: this game is about genetics. This game is about being
Speaker 1: physically dominant, and if you're a guy that can move
Speaker 1: right and you have length, a coach is going to
Speaker 1: find a place for you. That's just what this game
Speaker 1: is all about. And Rob, you know the point that
Speaker 1: I'm bringing up I'm being fooled is there's been multiple
Speaker 1: dbs where I see how long their arms are and
Speaker 1: I think to myself, oh my god, the length is
Speaker 1: kind of crazy here. And yet I see the wingspan
Speaker 1: when they get measured at their prote or their combine,
Speaker 1: and it's not always matching up. But the importance of
Speaker 1: that length for me just keeping guys wide receivers at
Speaker 1: bay coming off the line, extending out like there's some
Speaker 1: obvious functionality. Absolutely, and look where a defensive back, if
Speaker 1: he lacks some footspeed, the length is vital. And I
Speaker 1: always go to my good friend Richard Sherman. Richard Sherman
Speaker 1: is not gonna go out here and beat Tyreek Hill
Speaker 1: and running. But the thing about Sherman is because he's
Speaker 1: so long, and guys like him a Brandon Browner at
Speaker 1: some point Tyreek woolin now with the Seahawks. Because they're
Speaker 1: so long, they can actually wait a second longer when
Speaker 1: they're defending a guy, meaning they can wait until they
Speaker 1: actually see the ball about to come out because they
Speaker 1: have the length to catch up. Meaning again not necessarily
Speaker 1: the foot speed, but they have the length that if
Speaker 1: they were within a step or two, they can get
Speaker 1: to the football. And that's that's vier Lymport. I love that.
Speaker 1: I've never heard this, but recovery length. Can I coin that?
Speaker 1: Go ahead? Oka is about recovery speed. I've never heard
Speaker 1: covery length. Yeah, I'm gonna start explaining. Yo, I gotta
Speaker 1: I'm doing draft coverage NFL dot Com this year again.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I'm I'm throwing that. I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1: It's gonna sound like like I'm I'm DJ recovery length.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be one of my teams at some point.
Speaker 1: I like that. I do want to get into some
Speaker 1: of the numbers in the science behind what we're discussing here.
Speaker 1: One study from the University of Utah found that the
Speaker 1: first ten yards of a running backs forty yard dash
Speaker 1: time was predictive of their yards per carry in the NFL,
Speaker 1: which I don't know if that surprises you. Were not,
Speaker 1: But another study from sports scientists at the University of
Speaker 1: Rhode Island found that the broad jump was a decent
Speaker 1: indicator of successive running backs d ns and defensive tackles.
Speaker 1: You're throwing up your hands. You're like, yeah, man, I
Speaker 1: got through broad jump out there a few times. Man.
Speaker 1: Because again, if you're explosive off your individual legs like that, man,
Speaker 1: it makes you, It makes your speedster. And then over
Speaker 1: at UCLA, how about this from a quarterback perspective, they
Speaker 1: determined that NFL success it only found one true correlation.
Speaker 1: Check this out, a quarterback's height and their future completion percentage.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, maybe it becomes some of those easier throws
Speaker 1: that you were talking about, not having to rely on
Speaker 1: some of those throwing lands. I don't know, but the folks,
Speaker 1: the smart folks at u CELA said, that's that's what
Speaker 1: the deal makes sense. So a lot of analysis to
Speaker 1: unpack here. I'm gonna brass taxes or I'm gonna ask
Speaker 1: you to do that. Gmcap On, dudes got great tape
Speaker 1: combined in person when you're there it's okay or the
Speaker 1: dude just got okay tape and just wows you at
Speaker 1: the combine. Which how do you balance those things? Man,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. I mean, that's the rub of
Speaker 1: why you're a general manager or a talent evaluator. I
Speaker 1: value game tape more because again, when you ask any
Speaker 1: football player, they don't want to miss games. They don't
Speaker 1: care about practice, right, Well, some of guys don't care
Speaker 1: about practice. They do not want to miss games. Guys
Speaker 1: want to show up and show out in the biggest situations.
Speaker 1: And so for me, if I'm evaluating a guy, I
Speaker 1: gotta see what he looked like when he was all
Speaker 1: motivated and ready to go out there and do his
Speaker 1: job on his level, right, I just want to see
Speaker 1: him comfortable there. And that's why I value game tape.
Speaker 1: I really do, yams. You you can't just make your
Speaker 1: draft picks or your draft analysis solely based off the combine.
Speaker 1: There's just it's not real football being played, it's it's
Speaker 1: drills being done so that you can evaluate. I've always
Speaker 1: thought that used the combine to enhance your thoughts on
Speaker 1: a player or take away like the personality thing to
Speaker 1: me is really important because I look in a day
Speaker 1: and age where character actually matters, or I think it does.
Speaker 1: To me that face to face interaction, like I already
Speaker 1: seen what you can do on game film when when
Speaker 1: bullets are alive, I want to know how you are,
Speaker 1: how you're going to represent an organization, which is why
Speaker 1: a lot of these teams, as you mentioned earlier, know
Speaker 1: about all the stuff that you were doing before even
Speaker 1: got to your don't lie about any of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Many already know it. Bottom line here combine, we absolutely
Speaker 1: love it. We're going to have complete coverage Do not
Speaker 1: Miss exclusively on NFL Network. Coverage Thursday, March second at
Speaker 1: three pm goes through Sunday, March fifth, which means if
Speaker 1: you're sending those dms with questions you can you can
Speaker 1: say some nice things about the show. I might be
Speaker 1: a little slow to respond to my apologies and Rob
Speaker 1: terrific job is always I'm my Kem. I always appreciated
Speaker 1: our crew help us out in an immense way. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for listening.