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Speaker 1: Dylan, what's up, man, what's up man?

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Speaker 2: It's good to be in Texas.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here. It's our story is interesting.

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Speaker 1: We were doing an event together in Amilla, in the

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Speaker 1: Pananel of Texas, and you're you're on it, and I

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Speaker 1: was on it, and but I wasn't. I did, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't really informed. I came in, I had a couple

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Speaker 1: of guys from the church with me, and you get

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Speaker 1: up on the stage and you did a spoken word yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I first of all, you got up there and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is this is gonna be interesting.

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Speaker 1: But then when you started, instantly I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this guy's this guy's solid.

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Speaker 2: He knows his Bible. You know, this guy knows his Bible.

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Speaker 2: It's weird how we can just it doesn't take long.

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Speaker 1: Just a few lines. It's a few lines, because when

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Speaker 1: you hear when you hear a watered down version over

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Speaker 1: and over and over and over and over. But then

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Speaker 1: you get a guy that's solid, and you go, oh, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is just got a brother. So then I saw

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Speaker 1: you the next morning at the hotel and having breakfast,

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Speaker 1: and you and I were just like because then you're

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Speaker 1: gonna go speak. And then I was flying home and

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Speaker 1: we were doing this and and I was like broken,

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Speaker 1: I want to get your number. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: this is going to lead, but I just I want

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Speaker 1: I want you. I want to be your brother, you know, basically.

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Speaker 1: So that's how we met. And then here you sit

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Speaker 1: and you're wearing a shirt that says suffering It's temporary.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but God's goodness is forever like Corinthians for you know,

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Speaker 2: So what momentary light affliction? Yeah, this is like you

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Speaker 2: can the eternal weight of glory. So it's just something that, uh,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to still wrap my mind around and really

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Speaker 2: flesh it out in my life. You know that. Man,

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Speaker 2: the hard things we go through, there's an expiration date

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Speaker 2: to it, but there's no expiration date to the glory

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Speaker 2: of God.

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Speaker 1: You know. Amen, Yeah, did you are the Are these

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Speaker 1: truths that you read and experience in life? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: You know, suffering is something that just everyone of all times,

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Speaker 2: of all people groups, everyone relates with suffering. It's just

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Speaker 2: part of the human experience. And I think my testimony

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Speaker 2: was so dramatic, which we could get into, but there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of suffering just growing up with two

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Speaker 2: parents who were in addiction and in and out of rehab,

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Speaker 2: and you know, eventually I come to Jesus, I repent

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Speaker 2: of my sin and believe the Gospel. And then oh,

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Speaker 2: like my suffering was really just paving this hard row

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Speaker 2: that led me straight to Jesus. And that was kind

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Speaker 2: of my testimony. I put a bow around it and

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Speaker 2: I shared it all over the place. You know, look, man, drug, addiction,

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Speaker 2: all these things, and then the Lord save me. And

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Speaker 2: suffering is just temporary, but God's goodness is forever. But

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Speaker 2: then you just live your life long enough as a

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Speaker 2: Christian and you endure worse suffering then you had before

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Speaker 2: you're a Christian. And it's also hard because you're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I was supposed to suffer. I was a heathen, you know,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't. I was that lost sheep. And now I'm

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Speaker 2: your child, and like I'm experiencing suffering at a deeper level.

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Speaker 2: So I mean it comes from a place of like

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Speaker 2: being a special needs dad. So like my youngest son

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Speaker 2: is severely autistic, and so getting that diagnosis in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty was just tough. And it's like, as a dad,

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Speaker 2: you just kind of want to figure out well, how

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Speaker 2: long is this going to last or what can I

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Speaker 2: do to fix it? And then having other children who

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Speaker 2: have like are in a prodigal season. I'm like, that's

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Speaker 2: a level of suffering that I never, you know, wanted

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Speaker 2: to know. But I come back to God's word and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, suffering is going to change us, grief is

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Speaker 2: going to change us. But through the Holy Spirit, it'll

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Speaker 2: only make us long for Heaven more, want more Jesus.

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Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, when as hard

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Speaker 2: as it is on earth, when you compare it to

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Speaker 2: eternity with Jesus, it's light and momentary, you know. So

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Speaker 2: I know it here. I'm still trying to flesh it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, because we need we need to know

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Speaker 1: it here and we need to beat it into our

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Speaker 1: heads so that we could be conformed to that because

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Speaker 1: are transformed from that, because it starts, it really starts

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Speaker 1: in the mind, because our hearts, which are being renewed,

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Speaker 1: need that, they need to be told the truth that

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Speaker 1: comes from our mind. Religions the only art, excuse me,

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Speaker 1: Christian is the only religion that does this, that encourages

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Speaker 1: no use your mind, no think about this, hear it.

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Speaker 1: Think about it, process it, preach it to your heart.

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Speaker 1: Really really, every other religion starts with the heart. It's like, no,

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Speaker 1: feel it, experience it, spiritualize it.

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Speaker 2: But that's what Mormons will tell you when they tell

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Speaker 2: you to read more, Like, well, just you have a

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Speaker 2: feeling in.

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Speaker 1: Your pray about it and didn't get that burning in this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's like renew your mind, take every thought

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Speaker 2: captive's to your own soul. Yeah yeah, yeah, So you

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Speaker 2: go back again, you go No, I read this, Paul said,

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Speaker 2: this light momentary affliction is preparing us for internal weight

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Speaker 2: of glory.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I believe though. Read it again, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. Yeah, read it again, and then

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Speaker 1: your heart's just crying out no, no, because your heart's

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Speaker 1: so wicked, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So okay, So where do we start with you? Man? Like,

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Speaker 1: when were you saved? Let's start there.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I was saved in two thousand and four, So

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Speaker 2: I just graduated high school and I was in my

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight four tourists with a tape adapter to

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Speaker 2: the CD walkman to the cigarette a dafter the power

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Speaker 2: of the CD. The whole set up lots of wires, Yes,

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Speaker 2: and I had to come to Jesus moment outside of church,

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Speaker 2: outside of a preacher being present. The gospel seed had

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Speaker 2: just been planted and the Holy Spirit had been convicting me.

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Speaker 2: So I had heard the gospel from a young age,

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Speaker 2: but I never identified myself as someone who needed God's grace,

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Speaker 2: like I just thought suffering was my salvation. So I

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Speaker 2: was so arrogant that by the time I was a teenager,

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Speaker 2: I thought, Man, it's hard for me to say this

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Speaker 2: out loud. I thought in my mind when I stood

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Speaker 2: before God that he would say, I'm so sorry for

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Speaker 2: the life you had. Yeah, come on home, let's go fishing,

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Speaker 2: you know, like he was gonna be my popa in

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Speaker 2: the sky. And I didn't need to live for Jesus

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Speaker 2: or surrender or know him that he owed me heaven

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Speaker 2: because my life was rough, which obviously I could have

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Speaker 2: looked to the left and right and found people that

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Speaker 2: would have loved to trade places with me, even with

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Speaker 2: a hard life. So it wasn't in till I came

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Speaker 2: to the end of myself. Christian family took me in

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Speaker 2: my senior year of high school and just lived out

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Speaker 2: the gospel. I mean, it was an African American family.

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Speaker 2: It was like six thirty in the morning listening to

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Speaker 2: Kirk Franklin on the way to church, going to church.

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Speaker 2: The church was like you'll hit your steps at this church.

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Speaker 2: We're walking around, we're up, we're down, you know, super charismatic.

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Speaker 2: And then he would he would hear us trying to

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Speaker 2: you know, my friends. We had a rap group. We'd

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Speaker 2: wrap all about guns. We didn't have girls that wouldn't

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Speaker 2: talk to us, but I mean it was our world, right,

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Speaker 2: So we had all the guns, all the girls. And

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Speaker 2: he comes in, this retired military, big intimidating man, takes

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Speaker 2: our microphone, takes our computer, takes everything out the room.

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Speaker 2: You're not gonna speak those words in my house. Come

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Speaker 2: back in with a page of Bible verses to read. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: how am I going to rhyme Ecclesiastes. I can't even

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Speaker 2: pronounce it. I'm looking at it. I still don't understand

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Speaker 2: a lot of Eclesiastes. But it's all these Bible verses.

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Speaker 2: And he was like, write music about this. And really

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Speaker 2: what was happening was I was seeing, Oh the gospel

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Speaker 2: is it really has power? Like I've I've heard people

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Speaker 2: pray like, I heard my dad pray over my mom

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Speaker 2: and my mom was overdose. I heard my mom screaming

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Speaker 2: to God and praying over my dad when he was

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Speaker 2: passed out. But these people pray because they know God

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Speaker 2: and they have joy and their family has peace and

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Speaker 2: their structure and it's all based off principles in the Bible.

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Speaker 2: So the gospel just became real to me. I saw

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Speaker 2: it fleshed out, but I still wanted my sin more.

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Speaker 2: So I ended up leaving their house to go live

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Speaker 2: with my brother and live with my aunt. But eventually,

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Speaker 2: I always say, like, living with them put a pebble

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Speaker 2: in my shoe and I could walk around with it

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Speaker 2: for so long and it didn't bother me too much

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Speaker 2: at first, but man, if you walk a few miles

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Speaker 2: with a pebble on your shoe, you're like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: got a with this. And so I saw like the

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Speaker 2: example of Christ in them, and it made my sin

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Speaker 2: more apparent and the Lord the Holy Spirit. Right, It's

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Speaker 2: like you think about that metaphor of the new birth,

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Speaker 2: and well, you have a birthday, but you had about

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Speaker 2: nine months of life prior to that new birth. So

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Speaker 2: I feel like in two thousand and four, I was

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Speaker 2: experiencing like spurts of spiritual life, but pre regeneration. So

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Speaker 2: it's like, I get that fornication makes me feel like

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Speaker 2: I've sinned. You know what is this feeling like talking

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Speaker 2: about these things? So I was wrestling for like six months,

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Speaker 2: but then I just broke under the weight of my

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Speaker 2: sin and just realized, like, God owes me nothing my

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Speaker 2: hardships in life. I'm not just a victim of my circumstance.

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Speaker 2: I am also a sinner who is chosen hate and

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Speaker 2: anger and bitterness over grace and mercy and forgiveness. And

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Speaker 2: I didn't have the verbiage. I don't really remember how

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Speaker 2: I prayed to God. I just prayed with what words

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Speaker 2: I knew, and I called my girlfriend who's now my wife,

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Speaker 2: on my track phone. I had one unit left. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is a Nokia Bring phone with one unit, and

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Speaker 2: with my last unit, I called her. I told her

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Speaker 2: I just gave my life to Jesus. We get married

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Speaker 2: a year later, and yeah, then I'm here on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: So I want I want to I want to double

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Speaker 1: click on something because this idea that you're that suffering

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Speaker 1: is your salvation. That's that's a very common thought. I

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Speaker 1: was actually talking to my brother yesterday about this. Rc

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Speaker 1: spro calls it the justification of death, meaning saved by death.

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Speaker 1: So this they're suffering in this world. And you know,

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Speaker 1: but whenever I die, I'll be with the I'll be

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Speaker 1: with the Lord. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's death that takes you there.

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Speaker 1: It's death that that's that's the door that gets you

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Speaker 1: into heaven. Is you just have to die. You got

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Speaker 1: to go through the world, you got to do your thing,

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Speaker 1: believe whatever you believe, but just open the door to

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Speaker 1: death and you're in. And so that's why, at the

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Speaker 1: surface level, so many funerals, which everyone calls them celebration

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Speaker 1: of life. Now it's it's just like, ah, they're they're

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Speaker 1: all together with the family dog and with grandma and

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Speaker 1: with little Billy you know that had the four wheeler

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Speaker 1: accident and that you know they're all together. Why because

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Speaker 1: they died justification of death And it's I would we

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Speaker 1: don't need to get into it right now, but but

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Speaker 1: anyone listening, I want to just kind of use our

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Speaker 1: minds to to see where where in the Bible that

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Speaker 1: would possibly exist that doesn't it's like a deistic idea

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Speaker 1: that's just modern deism that how do you get to God?

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Speaker 1: Just die and if you suffer, like you're saying, oh

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Speaker 1: even better, that's more merit in heaven. Oh welcome, Dylan,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. I'm so sorry. If you're suffering,

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Speaker 1: you get a mansion in heaven. Yeah, that's something we

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Speaker 1: create and perpetuate. So anyway, go ahead, that's a great

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Speaker 1: thing you brought up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I used to kind of put God on

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Speaker 2: trial in my mind, and I would get real frustrated

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Speaker 2: during hard moments because I mean I was five years

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Speaker 2: old the first time I saw my dad overdosed on heroin.

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Speaker 2: I was probably in second grade when I saw my

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Speaker 2: mom make an attempt on her life. I remember being

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Speaker 2: a dad and doing a family divo one night and

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Speaker 2: we're talking about fear and we're having family discussion. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: all right, kids, tell me what's the scariest thing you've

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Speaker 2: ever experienced in life? And I think my daughter was

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Speaker 2: five years old, and she got like a really serious

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Speaker 2: look on her face and she's like, well, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: this is about to be big, Like maybe this is

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Speaker 2: something I don't know. She's like, one night I heard

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Speaker 2: this super creepy noise and it really scared me. But

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Speaker 2: the next morning Mom said it was the ice maker

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Speaker 2: and it's like it was the icemaker machine going off

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Speaker 2: at you know, two in the morning. That was her category,

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Speaker 2: probably the most fearful thing she's been through in life.

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Speaker 2: And I remember thinking, oh, man, if you would ask

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Speaker 2: me that in second grade, I would have. And that's

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Speaker 2: when I realized, like, one, you know, by the Lord's grace,

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Speaker 2: my kids are going to have a different life than

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Speaker 2: I did. But two, what became normal for me never

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Speaker 2: should have been you know normal. Yeah, And so in

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Speaker 2: those moments of where like, you know, maybe my dad

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Speaker 2: was gone for and my dad was with me at

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Speaker 2: that conference though, so the Lord has done amazing things,

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Speaker 2: but he would be gone for days on a binge,

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Speaker 2: and I remember it's like Dad goes to work, Dad

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Speaker 2: didn't come home from work. The next day, Dad's boss

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Speaker 2: calls like, hey, where is he is? Everything okay? And

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Speaker 2: then we find out, wait, Dad didn't go to work.

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Speaker 2: And then it's just like this intense feeling of fear

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Speaker 2: and anxiety. And then as I got older, it was

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Speaker 2: just God, where are you? Why are you allowing this?

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Speaker 2: What's going on? You know, the only concept I had

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Speaker 2: I had of God was from like a very word

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Speaker 2: of faith type of theology, where that's if I ever

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Speaker 2: did visit a church with a family member. It was

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Speaker 2: normally that if I was ever scrolling through late night TV,

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Speaker 2: I would like see some televangelists and sometimes I would

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Speaker 2: like lean in and watch it. And I'm like, imagine

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Speaker 2: how sad it is for eleven year old to think

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Speaker 2: if I prayed with enough faith, then my parents wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be drug addicts anymore. So there has to be something

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Speaker 2: I'm not believing hard enough for it, you know. And

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Speaker 2: so it began to kind of warp my view of God,

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Speaker 2: and I felt like he was on trial, like where

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Speaker 2: were you when this happened? Where were you in this

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Speaker 2: suffering happened? And it was through the Gospel that I

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Speaker 2: learned it's a more important question to ask, is like,

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Speaker 2: not where are you right now in this particular place

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Speaker 2: of suffering, but go back and say, like where were

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Speaker 2: you when you left heaven? Came to earth, born of

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Speaker 2: a virgin God, in human flesh, lived a life I

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Speaker 2: could never live. Die to death I deserved as the

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Speaker 2: payment for my sin to satisfy you know God's judgment

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Speaker 2: and then rose up again. And then suddenly I forgot

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Speaker 2: my question because when I think about, that's what he did,

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Speaker 2: that's what he went through, and now his arms are

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Speaker 2: extended not to turn away anyone who comes to him

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Speaker 2: through repentance and faith, and he's seated in the heavenlys

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Speaker 2: and he does whatever he pleases. I'm asking the wrong question.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have the language for this when I gave

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Speaker 2: my life to Jesus in two thousand and four. But

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Speaker 2: I began to think, I need someone to be my

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Speaker 2: substitute for my sin, and I need to repent and

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Speaker 2: trust in this person to be my savior. And so

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Speaker 2: that's what I did. I didn't have those words for it.

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Speaker 2: God miraculously just melted my heart towards my mom and

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Speaker 2: dad instantaneously like people that I felt so much disgust

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Speaker 2: and anger and bitterness, and I just, deep down, you know,

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Speaker 2: I loved him, and I almost hated that I'd loved

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Speaker 2: him no matter what, And in an instant it was

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Speaker 2: I just felt compassion for my mom and dad. So

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Speaker 2: that's like my witness, that's like my mission field, you know,

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Speaker 2: is my mom and dad. So I was that family

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Speaker 2: member on Christmas, who's like giving out CDs of a

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Speaker 2: forty minute gospel sermon recorded by me, you know, like

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Speaker 2: maybe my kids sang a Christmas song like the first

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Speaker 2: two minutes to get them into it. And then after

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Speaker 2: that it's like, well, let's talk about the real meaning

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Speaker 2: of Christmas forty minute like what is it? Centers in

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Speaker 2: the hands of an angry guy, you know, like really

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Speaker 2: intense you know preaching and like made some family members mad,

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Speaker 2: made my mom and dad, you know a little bit

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Speaker 2: upset about that. But it's just like, man, I wanted

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Speaker 2: to see my parents experience the freedom you know that

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Speaker 2: was in christ. So that's kind of what it looked

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Speaker 2: like early on.

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Speaker 1: I gotta know though, like what's what connected the the

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Speaker 1: fledgling word of faith understanding of God. Then you're listening

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Speaker 1: to Jonathan Edwards like oh yeah, okay, what was that? Well, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question.

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Speaker 2: You're really good at this. So I get saved and

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Speaker 2: I just go back to that church that i'd been

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Speaker 2: to a few times, like we're one of those families

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Speaker 2: like Easter, Christmas, and there was other times where like

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Speaker 2: I mean, my my mom like one time was doing

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Speaker 2: really well and she got plugged into this church and

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Speaker 2: they met like in a junior high it was a

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Speaker 2: church plant. But still like when the pastor walked in,

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh am, I going to get to like

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Speaker 2: give him a high five or like, well I get

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Speaker 2: to you know. It's like he's a celebrity, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so we go back to this church, my girlfriend

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Speaker 2: and I and by the way, like we're teen parents,

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Speaker 2: so we got our kid too, and I'm just like

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Speaker 2: this is what we do now, Like we go here,

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Speaker 2: we hear an encouraging message. We're kind of like can

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Speaker 2: sneak in, sneak out? Apparently there's lots of blessings and

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Speaker 2: stuff we can unlock. Like I still remember the speech

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Speaker 2: before you turn in your tithe. It's like we're believing

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Speaker 2: for raises and bonuses, benefits, settlements, checks in the mail, inheritance, waiting, inventions,

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Speaker 2: and like we would declare all these things before we

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Speaker 2: would you know, put in our tithe. Like I still,

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Speaker 2: you know, twenty years later, I can still remember it.

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Speaker 2: And on top of that, I was doing music before

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Speaker 2: and just you know really like even as a high

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Speaker 2: school student, I was producing like my own CDs, like

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Speaker 2: selling them out of my back, Like and then now

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Speaker 2: I'm I have this thing, like I'm in love with Jesus,

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Speaker 2: so I'm wanting to make music. So I'm recording at

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Speaker 2: this studio of these guys who like, you know, totally secular,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, hey, I'm a Christian now, so my

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Speaker 2: music's changed. And they're like, cool, that's fine. We record

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Speaker 2: this other Christian guy here. This is like five. He said,

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Speaker 2: his name is La Craye. He's like he's actually pretty good.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh yeah, and they give me his

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Speaker 2: email and I email them and I'm like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 2: let's make music. We're gonna like go platinum for Jesus,

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Speaker 2: you know. And he like hits me back, who's discipling you?

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Speaker 2: I'm like, who's disciplining me?

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Speaker 1: Wait?

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Speaker 2: What word is that? Like, I've never you don't just

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Speaker 2: use that. I've never heard the word disciple. Like my

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Speaker 2: favorite book of the Bible was the Table of Contents

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Speaker 2: just because like that showed me where to go. And

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Speaker 2: now he's saying disciple and uh, he's like this disciple

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Speaker 2: and so he's like, hey, let's you know, grab lunch.

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Speaker 2: And so he's like, this is the college ministry. It

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Speaker 2: was based out of Denton Bible Church Tom Nelson. It

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Speaker 2: was called Plumbline find a community group. And then he's like, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're great at rapping, but most people who listen to

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Speaker 2: your music need to be discipled, Like, you know, music

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Speaker 2: is not gonna save anyone, but you can use your

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Speaker 2: music to help disciple, teach and admonish. You know, that's

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Speaker 2: what they're really big on back then. So he literally

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Speaker 2: took out, took my notebook, give me your notebook. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is when we're still writing our rhymes in a notebook.

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Speaker 2: He writes it down R C sproll Holiness of God.

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Speaker 2: John Piper brothers were not professionals. John MacArthur maybe a

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Speaker 2: couple other names, and he's like, you know, go check

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Speaker 2: this stuff out. And you know, this is someone who

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Speaker 2: was older than me, who had been saved longer, and

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Speaker 2: who already was have like a fruitful ministry. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he he wasn't like you know where he's at now,

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Speaker 2: but he was performing at youth groups all the time

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Speaker 2: in church camps and so there I'm like, the first

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Speaker 2: book I got was John Piper's brother. We're not professionals,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, whoa Like the I go to the

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Speaker 2: college ministry, they just preached the Romans Road. I'd never

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Speaker 2: heard that. I'm like, how did I even get saved

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Speaker 2: if I didn't know Roman's Road? You know. It's like,

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Speaker 2: but I truly believe the Lord, did you know? Save me?

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Speaker 2: But they're saying, well here Paul, and I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 2: I thought God wrote the Bible, Like who's Paul? I

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Speaker 2: mean that's literally where I was. I just thought the

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Speaker 2: Bible was just no one can understand it. You can't

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Speaker 2: just read it. It's just like this really mysterious book.

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Speaker 2: And it's like, Lord, I'm having a hard time, Like,

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Speaker 2: show me something, just open up to it. Yeah, Bible Roulette.

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Speaker 2: And so then they give me this book called Thirty

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Speaker 2: Days to Understanding the Bible, which I really recommend. It

395
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Speaker 2: just gives you a framework just to tell you, like

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Speaker 2: the sections of the Bible, you know, from historical, poetical

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Speaker 2: profit you know, the prophecies, the epistles. And it helped

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Speaker 2: give me a framework. And then it was like I

399
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Speaker 2: was just trying to catch up to all the college

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Speaker 2: kids around me. So I'm reading double, I'm listening to sermons.

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Speaker 2: Obviously we got plugged into the church, like through the

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Speaker 2: college ministry, we get plugged into the church. And then

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Speaker 2: I just started just devouring God's word and then calling

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Speaker 2: my uh maybe at the time was my fiance and

405
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Speaker 2: trying to tell her what I just learned. And she's like,

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Speaker 2: that sounds crazy, and I'm like, no, you just have

407
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Speaker 2: to believe it. I can't explain it, but I'm telling

408
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Speaker 2: you it's a trinity. Go, okay, there's three of them,

409
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Speaker 2: but it's not three. She's like, I don't know. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 2: you're not saved if you don't believe this, Like I

411
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Speaker 2: don't have the words for it, you know. So it

412
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Speaker 2: was just I didn't realize that I was getting like

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Speaker 2: a seminary education, you know, like Herman Nudics. They brought

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Speaker 2: up Herman one day. They brought Herman the Bible Study

415
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Speaker 2: and I met Herman, and I'm getting all these things.

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Speaker 2: I'm going through systematic theology from Tom Nelson on like

417
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Speaker 2: cassette tapes and yeah, just and then I'm going back

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Speaker 2: to my friends that I had who I did music with,

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Speaker 2: and I'm just trying to regurgitate it, like God forbid,

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Speaker 2: they have a question for further clarification because I just

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Speaker 2: heard this like two days ago and I'm just repeating

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Speaker 2: it to them. And then so that's how I got

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Speaker 2: into you know, Jonathan Edwards. And then I start doing

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Speaker 2: inner city outreach and some of the same areas of

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Speaker 2: South Dallas my dad used to get dope from. I'm

426
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 2: going there and putting on concerts and outreaches and doing

427
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: Bible studies where we're talking about the doctrine of sin

428
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: and all these things. Man, it was pretty man crazy great.

429
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah he did, you know, and I know he's had

430
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 2: an interesting journey, but I'm forever grateful for him steering

431
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: me in that direction. And not only did he help

432
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: me spiritually, he sent me home with music equipment and

433
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 2: he offered to produce pretty much half of my first

434
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 2: album for free. You know, he just gave me what

435
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: he wasn't using and just yeah, really, they let me

436
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: record at their studio for free. They just really invested

437
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 2: in me on from both ends.

438
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: Wow, man, that's crazy. And think about think about how

439
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: important that one little question is. Who is discipling?

440
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 2: Yes, I had to look up the word.

441
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean people all the time. That's that's where

442
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: I go when I'm talking to people. At the very beginning,

443
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: it's like either who's pastoring you, who's discipling you? Or

444
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: where where are you in this because that's a it's

445
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: an easy indication to tell how far along you are

446
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: in your faith.

447
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think discipleship will look different in different seasons,

448
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: you know, cause like when I was a baby Christian,

449
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: it was very intense, like once a week plus the

450
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 2: two times we're seeing each other at church Wednesdays and Sundays,

451
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 2: plus Thursday nights, and it's real structured because it's like

452
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: I don't know how to share my testimony. I don't know.

453
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: And then I get married, so now someone else is

454
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 2: discipling me. Who's married, been married, you know, fifteen years

455
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: longer than I have, which at the time I thought, man,

456
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: y'all are old. You know, now I'm older than they

457
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: were then. And then now it looks like we're having

458
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: dinner together, a husband and wife, and we're talking, and

459
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: then maybe we go out and whatever shooting hoops in

460
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: the driveway and we're talking about some things and maybe

461
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 2: sit down in the car. And then another stage in

462
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: life where you got kids, and it's like now when

463
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: I think about who's discipling me. It's like so many

464
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: people are constantly pouring into me within my church community

465
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: rather than being like the one guy that I'm always

466
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: going to.

467
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: You know, you said something interesting too, when you would

468
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: learn something like book, learn something and then somebody would

469
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: ask you a question. And that's that's such a good

470
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: way to get sharpened because we'll use the trinity because

471
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: you brought it up. You could read about the Trinity

472
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: and you'd be like, okay, cool, and someone goes, what's

473
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: the trinity and you go, it's oh, I go read again,

474
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: And that's what really because you thinking about how to

475
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: say something out loud is a much more advanced level

476
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: than just reading it and taking it in. And so

477
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: when the more people ask you questions and the more

478
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: you wrestle through it, the sharper you get. Because none

479
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: of us want to look stupid. We want to we

480
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: want to have some kind of meat in the answer.

481
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: So dude that So then you you're you're being discipled,

482
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: you're being poured into, you're getting sharper. Where where does

483
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: the local church play in this? Because you're you started

484
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: in the Word of faith, where does that change?

485
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: So through the college ministry, I just felt like, Wow,

486
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,239
Speaker 2: I'm learning. I'm learning, like just verse by verse, you know,

487
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: book by book. What church is this, Oh, it's Dent'on

488
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 2: Bible Church. And then I started going to Did'on Bible

489
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: and then was part of a church plant called Lifeline

490
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: Bible Fellowship. Basically, what they had was people graduating college

491
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 2: and just being so plugged into that community. They just

492
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 2: are kept coming back to college ministry. So they decided

493
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: through didn't Bible church, Well, let's just plan a church

494
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: with all these people who are aged out of college ministry,

495
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: you know. And so it was awesome. I mean it

496
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: was a church where scripture was taught expositionally, community was there.

497
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: Probably what was lacking was it was just so many

498
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: young people, like very I think, I mean, we were

499
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: a young married couple, and I think there was only

500
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: a handful of other people who had been married, like, oh,

501
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: if you've been married three years, like whoa, You've been

502
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 2: married forever, you know. And so that was, you know,

503
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: kind of lacking. But that was my church home for

504
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: only a year because I lost my job that I

505
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: had and we were struggling to make it. We're in Denton, Texas,

506
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 2: and that's how we end up in Oklahoma. There was

507
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: a family owned property my grandma offered to us. It

508
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 2: was behind Long John Silver, so you know, it wasn't

509
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: a nice neighborhood. And again I'm at a concert with

510
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: La Cree and of course I just have like a

511
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: little five minute slot. He's the headliner. And I'm like, yeah, man,

512
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: I'm moving and I'm going to find a job.

513
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: D D.

514
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try to find a place to record. He's like, no, no, no,

515
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: before you find a job, before you find a place

516
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: to do your music, have you found a church home?

517
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: And I'm like no, He's like, and he sends me

518
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: to this website, which I mean, I guess I kind

519
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: of was just blessed. I think, have you ever heard

520
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: of Nine Marks? Yeahah, we're a nine March church. Yeah,

521
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: so it was similar to nine Marks, but this is like,

522
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: oh six. It was another website, but it was like

523
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: find a healthy church near you type of deal. So

524
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: I type in this our zip code and one church

525
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: pops up. I mean, it could have just been a

526
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: cult and just been on that and I would have

527
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 2: got sucked right into it, you know. And it had

528
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: a creepy name, Messiah fellowship, Bible church. It seemed like messianics. Yeah,

529
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: we're coming from a church, like an urban church plant

530
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: where a guy might you know, rap and but we

531
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: might sing a hymn and then a guy might do

532
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: like a rap before the next song, and it's like

533
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 2: it's the cult. It's just like a shared culture, you know,

534
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: but Christ over culture. And we walk in on that Sunday.

535
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, like the church was about the

536
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: size of this room or recording in. I walk in,

537
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: I'm already in front of everyone. I thought it was

538
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: just the door. Apparently I walked through the wrong door.

539
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: And I'm like face to face with the pastor mid sermon,

540
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: walking in late. They're just like fresh meat in the door.

541
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: Like everyone act normal. Don't overwhelm them. You know, we're

542
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: so desperate for people to be here. And man, by

543
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: God's grace, it just became a great community for us.

544
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: So we get plugged in with discipleship with the associate pastor.

545
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: We teaching awanas, you know what I mean, at different

546
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: age levels. And then like the church went through hard

547
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: times just like uh, we went from a church split

548
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: where the pastor went to plant somewhere else to not

549
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: having the building and turning into like a church, just

550
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: home church, which it's like it's hard to invite people

551
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: to church when you have home church. That's the one

552
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 2: thing like people get, yeah, can get weird about it.

553
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I know, your kids just go right

554
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: back to that bedroom. They'll be fine. You know. So

555
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: we're we're going from house to house, which we me

556
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: and my wife still like we miss the house church

557
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: phase just because even though it was small, it was

558
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: like you don't even know when church starts or when

559
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: it ends because it's just so organic.

560
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: It's like you're just there the family.

561
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: You're having a meal. The next thing you know, like

562
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: oh yeah, we're having church, and then next thing you know,

563
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: it's like, oh it's three hours later, we're all still here.

564
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: But then a really beautiful thing happened in twenty fifteen,

565
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: our churches merged with that pastor who had went to

566
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: plant in a neighboring city. Our churches came together is

567
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: Sovereign Grace Bible Church. And that was in twenty fifteen,

568
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: and so that was like my Paul, you know what

569
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: I mean. And so he's the guy that really when

570
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 2: I first moved to Oklahoma, we would meet up and

571
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: the guy who walked with me and my wife through

572
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: early marriage stuff. And then in two thousand and nine

573
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: he goes to He's like, man, you're doing so well

574
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: here and you're just serving the Lord so good here.

575
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: Really I feel like freed up to go plant this church.

576
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, don't leave me, you know. And

577
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: so it was really sweet, you know, to six years

578
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: later to be you know, reunited with him, and so yeah,

579
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: so that's I've really had the same pastor in my

580
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: life since two thousand and six. So it's a it's

581
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: a huge gift because I mean he doesn't even have

582
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: to ask at this point. It's like he just knows,

583
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 2: you know, something's not right, you know. So it's really

584
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: been a safeguard in my marriage and my ministry just

585
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: having the same guy in my life since six.

586
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: You know, a long time ago. Tyler and I STARTEDYE Apparel.

587
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: It just came from originally just artist merch from Granger

588
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: Smith from my artist days.

589
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: And when ye.

590
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: Apparel started, we built eee dot com, but we had

591
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: no idea what to do with it, like how would

592
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: we possibly sell a T shirt? I think the first

593
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: one we had was I've got a tough schedule Earl

594
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: Dibbles Junior. It didn't take long before we realized we

595
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: were in over our head and we needed a company

596
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: to host this for us. That's when we turned to Shopify.

597
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: Shopify is basically the checkout portion of your website and

598
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: they handle all of that. They do the numbers that

599
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: they have, all the algorithms that we don't understand, but

600
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: they do. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of

601
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: businesses around the world and ten percent that's a pretty

602
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: big number of all e commerce in the US. You

603
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: can get started with your own design studio with hundreds

604
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: of ready to use templates. Shopify helps you build a

605
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: beautiful online store to match your brand's style. You can

606
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI

607
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance

608
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: your product photography. It's pretty cool and best yeat. Shopify

609
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: is your commerce expert with world class expertise and everything

610
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: from managing inventory to international shipping, to processing returns and beyond.

611
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about that stuff. You could

612
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: just be creative in what you do and let Shopify

613
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: handle everything else. If you are ready to sell, you're

614
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: ready for Shopify. Sign up for your one dollar per

615
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: month trial period and start selling today at shopify dot

616
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: com slash granger. Go to shopify dot com slash granger

617
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: once again shopify dot com slash granger. If you're trying

618
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: to get a gift for someone that you think has everything,

619
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: how about a special video message from me. It's easy

620
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: to do. Go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith

621
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: and you put in the prompt what you want me

622
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: to say. I get that message on my phone. I'll

623
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: say happy birthday, happy anniversary, whatever personalized message you want

624
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: me to say to whoever you want me to say

625
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: it to. I send it to you and you give

626
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: it to them. It's pretty cool. Go to cameo dot

627
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: com slash granger Smith. Like you're hitting. You're hitting all

628
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: the things that as people walk through their faith. Who

629
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: who is pastoring you? That's the next question that you

630
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: could ask after who's discipling you? And if you don't know,

631
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 1: or if you don't know how to get a hold

632
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: of him? Yeah, then Actually I saw a funny meme

633
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: today that that's said to our our elders, but it

634
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: says says as sign says meet the pastor, and oh no,

635
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: it says, please observe the following. No photos with the pastor,

636
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: no handshakes or hugs. Pastor is unable to receive any

637
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: items at this time. That's a problem.

638
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: That's a problem. How do we safeguard against that? As

639
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 2: churches grow? Do you think it's just going out and

640
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 2: planting churches?

641
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: Yeah?

642
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: So what point do you think in church goes from? Which?

643
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: I mean, And there's some pastors we love who pastor

644
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 2: mega churches. So I'm not saying it's always.

645
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: We're not against bad we're not against big churches. It's

646
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: I think two things. One, you you must grow the

647
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: plurality of the pastors, so as you it's because that

648
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 1: word means shepherd. So if you think about it's like saying,

649
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: what would we do if we had a big pasture

650
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: and a bunch of sheep.

651
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: You'd get more shepherds.

652
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you wouldn't get a shepherd on a

653
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: higher platform or a bigger shepherd. You'd get just get

654
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: more shepherds. And then at some level you have to

655
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: send out sheep to different pastures and send out shepherds

656
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: with them. So that communicates to the church that you know,

657
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: we we're following scripture saying we're we're here to build churches,

658
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: not our church, not built a church big, We're here

659
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: to plant churches. And that does mean your church can't

660
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: be big, but I think it has to be pastored

661
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: with more shepherds. Yeah, I think if you have eight

662
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: hundred two one thousand people, you might need thirty.

663
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, thirty pastors. And like my one of my pastors, Randy,

664
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: who went to go plant this church, you know, he

665
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: didn't plant until he had another elder to plant with him.

666
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 2: He's like, we're at least going to there's zero people

667
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: at our church. We're going to start out with two elders,

668
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: you know, and our families. So I think church planning

669
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: should have that. And I'm not an expert on church planning,

670
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: but like when that's built into the DNA from the

671
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,959
Speaker 2: beginning plurality of elders, you don't have to ever worry

672
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: about that awkward phase of like, well, who does this?

673
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: How do I kind of release some of this because

674
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: this has kind of become my thing. So I didn't

675
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 2: know that I had been blessed with biblical like church

676
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: structure and how important that was, you know, until I

677
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: start talking to my friends and hearing some of the

678
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: stuff they go through, church abuse, church hurt, and I'm like, man,

679
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 2: I guess the plurality of elders has just been a safeguard.

680
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: You know. The Bible always speaks of elders plural.

681
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like when Paul's meeting with the Ephesian elders,

682
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: it's plural, and it's not like I'm meeting with the

683
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: senior guy and the not that it's wrong to label

684
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: one of them a senior guy, but but the have

685
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: of that plurality. It's like you said, it's a safeguard

686
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: against pride, against one guy starting to feel like it's

687
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: his thing.

688
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 2: It helps, it.

689
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: Helps with decisions.

690
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and expositional preaching can be another safeguard for the

691
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: direction of a church, because then you can't just preach

692
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: like the hot topics that the pastor always loves to

693
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: hit on, you know, or like, well we're just walking

694
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 2: through the scripture. But I was talking to my friend

695
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: who did a church revitalization outside of Portland, so that's

696
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 2: a whole different type of world than we're and it's

697
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: really awesome to see what the Lord's doing there. I

698
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: got to be there saving Grace Church. I believe it's

699
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 2: called Hope. I'm not getting the name wrong, but he

700
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 2: I want your thoughts on this. He brought up something

701
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: he's like more than verse by verse. I preach thought

702
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: by thought, like follow the original author's thought, he said,

703
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: because sometimes expositional preaching could isolate one verse so much

704
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: like we're just going to break this verse down today

705
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: that you could end up taking it out of context

706
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: because you're not really looking at the full thought. What

707
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: do you think about? Have you ever heard that saying

708
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 2: like preach thought by thought or.

709
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: Precept so thinking about expositional preaching, you would, It would

710
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: depend on you said it earlier, the genre of the

711
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: literature that you're reading, so like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't

712
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: think word by word. In Genesis fifty is nearly as

713
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 1: big a deal as Two Corinthians four. You're looking at

714
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: Paul and you're looking You're looking at how he's making

715
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: his argument and how he's unfolding what he's trying to

716
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 1: tell the people through his inspired word to that specific church. Now,

717
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: Genesis fifty, that's Moses retelling story of Joseph and his brothers, and.

718
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: You could cover a lot more ground reading that.

719
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So it's like, okay, what's what's the narrative

720
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: of what's happening in Genesis fifty. What's happening so that

721
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: we could see how does this point to Christ? What

722
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: does go? Where's God's sovereignty in the suffering of Joseph?

723
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: You know what what you meant for evil? God meant

724
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: for good? What? Okay, let's take that concept instead of

725
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: what you the word for Hebrew, you meant it's It's

726
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: not that it would be a bad thing to do it,

727
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: but it's a lot more important. Looking at Paul and

728
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 1: in a in a letter that he wrote in Greek, so.

729
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: I felt pressure because I've grown up and came up

730
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: in as a you know, in Christian life and discipleship

731
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: with mainly verse by verse teaching. And I think there

732
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 2: could be great I think sometimes it could be even

733
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 2: needed for there to be something topic or to speak

734
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: to you know, something like that. And I think you

735
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 2: could do topical sermons in an exegetical way where you're

736
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: pulling it from the script, you're not forcing it into it.

737
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 2: But like especially at my church when I've preached. Our

738
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: church is so top heavy this sometimes, like going to

739
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 2: the men's conference was great because I don't know those guys.

740
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 2: I mean not in a bad way, but it's like

741
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: I don't I'm not in their head because I don't

742
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: know what's in their head. I'm like, well, I'm just

743
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: gonna preach. But like when I'm at my church, like, well,

744
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: that guy knows like way more than I do. This

745
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 2: guy's been going to seminary, so you can almost feel

746
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 2: that pressure, like, well, I got to really pull out

747
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: some deep stuff, you know. And it's like you're just

748
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 2: at the greeting. Paul's traditional greeting he does in every epistle,

749
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: but it's like, do I need to just grace and

750
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: peace unto you? And I just need to exegete this

751
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 2: for forty five minutes, you know, because it might just

752
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: be grace and peace, you know, unto you. It might

753
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: just And it's like when you're preaching verse by verse,

754
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:59,919
Speaker 2: don't don't over assign meaning to something that's just there

755
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: a greeting, you know what I mean. It's like because

756
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 2: it's okay if you know, you get through those three

757
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: or four verses of a greeting and then you land

758
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: on verse four or five. Okay, now we need to

759
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: slow down, you know. So I think it's just learning

760
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 2: how to balance that. I'm glad that i've I've noticed

761
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: more and more people like they don't even always call

762
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,959
Speaker 2: it expository preaching, but just focusing on verse by verse.

763
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 2: But I've also seen it misuse, where they're they're so

764
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: isolating something that it's like they'll they'll preach it for

765
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: forty five minutes and end up putting a lot of

766
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: their own meaning into it. And I don't know if

767
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: they're even meaning to do that, you know, I think

768
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: you're I think you're right.

769
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: It's not It wouldn't just be a blanket statement like, hey,

770
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: you must preach line by line in the story. No

771
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: not no, not necessarily because you have to. You have to,

772
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: of course teach and explain the text, but you also

773
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: have to apply it. You could illustrate it, but but

774
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: you should always apply it. So, okay, what do we

775
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: what could we do as a body as a congregation

776
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: when we hear this, don't just tell me what it says,

777
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: Tell me what do I do with this? So give

778
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: me some.

779
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: Kind of application.

780
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: If we were teaching through the end of Exodus and

781
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: he's describing the details of the tabernacle. I don't think

782
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: line by line.

783
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll do much for the congregation.

784
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you're gonna need to give me that whole

785
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: all of chapter thirty eight. Give it. Just give it

786
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: to me, and then give me the thought by thought.

787
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 2: And I think what you just said separates ex seminary

788
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 2: from preaching is the application. I think that's one of

789
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 2: the things. Obviously there's gonna be more that. It's like,

790
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: it's one thing to get to nerd out on the

791
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: verse and talk about all in all the word and

792
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: the word usage and the cross referencing. But man, when

793
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: it comes to preaching, it's like preaching to people's hearts

794
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: and then unlocking God's truth so that they can apply

795
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: it to their life. Yeah, you know, because you're in seminary. Yeah,

796
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 2: what's your experience because I've actually never been to seminary

797
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: almost said cemetery, but no, just kidding, just kidding, that's

798
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 2: just a joke. That's a Baptist joke. How has your

799
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 2: experience been.

800
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: That it's seminary? Is it's not needed for everybody? I

801
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: would never say that you you should have seminary that

802
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: you must do seminary. I think it is it if

803
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: if you want to have more fine tuned specific training

804
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: in certain areas, especially pastoral ministry, like if you if

805
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: you want to be a pastor and you want to

806
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: study Greek, or you want to even like I've even

807
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: taken find like classes on how a pastor deals with

808
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: the finances of the church, you know, so like things

809
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: that I would never study. A mind I would never study,

810
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: or the role deacons and like how to how to

811
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: divide up the different the different servings of the deacons

812
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: is not something I would just sit around and read

813
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: on my own.

814
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 2: So there is that.

815
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: There is plenty of the preaching classes, but I don't

816
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: push it on anybody. I just felt there was a

817
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: there was a time in my life a few years

818
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: ago when I felt kind of called to it and

819
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: to go to a specific one in southern in Louisville. Yes, yeah,

820
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: so I'd been listening to Alice podcast and I just

821
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, I I spent so many years

822
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: in the dark in my life that I need to

823
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: be pouring in as much light as I can and

824
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: so me in my life. I felt like it was

825
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: a right move for me to like focus my brain

826
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: and look at what a professor was telling me about

827
00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: systematic theology. And a lot of the professors are teaching

828
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: us how to think instead of what this means. This

829
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: is what this doctor means, and you should teach that

830
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: to everyone. It's not as much that, it's more like,

831
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: here's here's what we're dealing with. Here's what some people

832
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: have believed over the years. Here's what these people have believed.

833
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: You take this text and you make your own make

834
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: your own assumptions on this. So there's a lot of

835
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 1: church history, a lot of where did this come from?

836
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: Like why do we why do we fully immerse when

837
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: we baptized? Where does that come from from the text?

838
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: And when did people start doing it? Why did people

839
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: start sprinkling? Where did when did that start? Well, you

840
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: could trace church history and go, oh, I see this

841
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: is the first time that When was the Bible first

842
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: translated into anything? Well, okay, I see when is it

843
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: translated again? When did it become Latin from Greek? When

844
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: did when was it German? And then what about English?

845
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 1: Where did that? So, like that's a lot of church

846
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: history is stuff.

847
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: I looked into some church history things recently because summer

848
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 2: I randomly get invited out to this camp to preach.

849
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: So you know, I've done music and in probably in

850
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 2: the last five years, I've probably done more like teaching

851
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: and preaching mainly at student conferences. And it's a really

852
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: amazing opportunity to get to speak out of camp because

853
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 2: you know, you have four or five days with kids

854
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: morning and night. I could just walk them through a

855
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 2: book of the Bible and they may never get that,

856
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: and I can just say it's right here, you know

857
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: you can walk through it. Yes, And so I'm always

858
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 2: trying to judge, Okay, where is this camp, like based

859
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 2: off the name of the church, because it was like,

860
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: what was it Gospel, light, light Gospel. Oh, I hope

861
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: it's not a light Gospel that's good, you know, Gospel

862
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 2: Lighthouse Church or such. I'm like, I'm already seeing some

863
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 2: tambourines in there. I don't know this, I've never heard.

864
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 2: I'm like, and I'm trying to look them up on

865
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: the internet. I'm like, Okay, this website was designed in

866
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, and I'm like, I can't find out

867
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: like what I'm trying to get a denominational reference a

868
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 2: state in a faith I was digging. I've never had

869
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 2: to look normally. It's pretty obvious. I eventually find out

870
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 2: the best I can explain it, it's like three churches

871
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: that started their own kind of like network of churches.

872
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 2: And there they're Mennonites who have wanted to be more missional,

873
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 2: which is like where the Lighthouse comes in and not legalistic.

874
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 2: But I mean they still value some of their culture

875
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 2: and things like that. So I'm like, I get to

876
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 2: the camp. They have these this accent I've never heard,

877
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 2: like they're from Texas and Kansas, but they all have accents.

878
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 2: Their kids have accents. But most of them were dressed

879
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 2: modern clothes and all that. And so I'm like, every night,

880
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm going back to my room with my daughter and

881
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: I'm just like googling stuff about the Mennonites, and I'm like,

882
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: I'm at least gonna get some homemade soap out of

883
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: this or something. And then the more it came by,

884
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 2: the more i felt like, I'm like, Babe, I might

885
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 2: not ever come home, you know. I think I'm gonna

886
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 2: be a Mennonite, but come to find out, like just

887
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: the history with them and the Anabaptists and the Reformers

888
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: and stuff going on in Switzerland and really finding out like, oh,

889
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 2: like these are brothers, you know. But some things happen

890
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: culturally that separation. But then some things end up getting

891
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 2: that should be secondary things because of man and stuff

892
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: become the primary thing. Yes, but I think this group

893
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 2: of churches really had discovered just the Gospel of grace

894
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 2: and being missional. But I mean church history, you learn

895
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: so much because you're gonna just spiderweb into all these

896
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: different movements, you know. Yeah, you said it.

897
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 1: Right, man. I've got a deer brother that's a minnonight

898
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: pastor in South Carolina, and it's actually been on this podcast.

899
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: But I love that brother, and and you're right there.

900
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: There are the important things united us and then the second, third,

901
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 1: fourth tier things that really shouldn't matter, Like you said,

902
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: sometimes those become the things that divide. Instance, when I

903
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 1: have LDS guys over here every few weeks or so, they.

904
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 2: Still come to your house. Well, I got put on

905
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 2: the no FLI zone. We live in a country.

906
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: We live in the country, so they don't come on

907
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: their own, but I have their numbers, so we're like

908
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: it's open dialogue. So they're like, hey, when can we

909
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: come again, And I'm like, hey, three o'clock Tuesday. So

910
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: we'll just come up here and sit and talk. And

911
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: one of the things they will bring up is the

912
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: division and the Protestant churches. There's so many. They'll they'll say,

913
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: there's so many denominations. Maybe they'll save three thousand or something.

914
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I but I always have to

915
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: kind of reel that in and be like, no, those

916
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: are our brothers and sisters. That the denominations are more

917
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: of a culture, more of a opinion, more of a

918
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: style or a preference. But that's not We're not divided

919
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: on the Gospel. Whether whatever denomination you're in, if it's

920
00:49:54,840 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: an Evangelical Protestant denomination, the Gospel of Grace is at

921
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: the center of it. Yeah. So and that's okay. I

922
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: mean some of them are, you know, do this and that,

923
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: but we can't divide over that. The uh, the the

924
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: the there was divisions right at the beginning of the Reformation.

925
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: There there the divisions began. It was actually the first,

926
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: the very first one was over the Lord's Supper, if

927
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: it is Christ's body or if it's symbolic of Christ's

928
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 1: body and then boom they split and there was the first,

929
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: the first. That was the first one, that was the

930
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: very first one. Baptism came up later. That baptism was

931
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: actually a couple hundred years later. That's why I need

932
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: to go and the Anabaptists where the we're the first,

933
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: and they're like, I because what that means Anabaptist means

934
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: baptized again or rebaptized because they.

935
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 2: Started being coleeted baptism.

936
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were convicted when they were reading, like I

937
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: think in the Bible, in the Book of Acts, they

938
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: are baptized after they believe, and I was sprinkled before

939
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: I believed. I think we should do it again, Frank,

940
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: where you wanna go, Just go down the river and

941
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: will go dunk me and tell me that I'm being

942
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: baptized in the name of the Father Son and the

943
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: Holy Spirit, like like Jesus says at the end of

944
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: Matthew and Matthew twenty eight, go do that to me,

945
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: and bring bring our families and our kids so they

946
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: could watch. And then people saw them and they're like,

947
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: what what's that cult doing there?

948
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:21,919
Speaker 2: And people don't get over it.

949
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they started drowning them.

950
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: They would, they would go ambush them and drown them

951
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: in the just to like really rub it in their face.

952
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, like you want you think.

953
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 2: We always tell people don't get baptized out of church

954
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 2: that doesn't believe in body of the Resurrection, you know,

955
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: because they'll just probably buried in baptism. Yeah, hold you

956
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,240
Speaker 2: that buried in baptism. Yeah, buried in baptism.

957
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's.

958
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: Crazy stuff exciting, man. And I want, especially like I

959
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 2: have a lot of younger Christians, you know, I want

960
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 2: them to tap into the rich history because so much

961
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: misinformation is spread through apps and social media of people

962
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 2: who aren't who are really passionate but aren't actually informed

963
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 2: about what they're talking about. When we could look back

964
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 2: and see and it's not Christ is perfect. Church history

965
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,919
Speaker 2: is not perfect. We've gotten it wrong. But you could

966
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 2: see the thread of God's goodness and what Christ is

967
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 2: doing through his church and be proud, you know, be proud.

968
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: Man. It's such a base.

969
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 2: Hold on, I just watched your podcast about not saying

970
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 2: that's great A good way to be Yeah, that's a

971
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 2: good way be proud of Christ.

972
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: There's nothing like it. Nothing, there's no other subject where

973
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: you can go back one hundred years, fifty years, two

974
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: hundred years, seven hundred years and find men and women

975
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: studying right here these sects and they're pulling out the

976
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,240
Speaker 1: treasures out of the text, and it's the same treasure

977
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: as you're seeing. You can't do that with any other subject.

978
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: You can't do it with mathematics, you can't do it

979
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: with philosophy. You can't study Aristotle and and be just

980
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: as amazed with what he was seeing, because we are

981
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: so much more advanced than Aristotle now or any any

982
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 1: study except this.

983
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 2: You know, you said something at the Men's conference that

984
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 2: and I gotta send you this picture of my dad,

985
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 2: so we this is the first time we ever went

986
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 2: to something like this together. My dad's testimony, his story

987
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 2: has challenged my theology in some ways because I'm like, wait, dude,

988
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with this, because God

989
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 2: really just in two thousand and eight, man, he just

990
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 2: saved my mom and like I mean, she went from

991
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 2: being a drunk to like just saved and like had

992
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 2: no desire for alcohol, like just it just went away

993
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 2: miracle to where my dad had a sensitivity towards the

994
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 2: gospel and a hunger for Christ, but would really just

995
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 2: fall back, you know, into into old ways. But here

996
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 2: in the past years, I really truly believe I've seen,

997
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 2: you know, such a change in him. And so it

998
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: was such a cool moment to go to the men's conference.

999
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 2: And I don't know, you weren't there the last night,

1000
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: but cade I don't know if this if he was

1001
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 2: apologizing for us or what, but he's like, I know

1002
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 2: this one what you guys expected, you know, but I

1003
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 2: wanted to do something different, you know. So I he

1004
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,399
Speaker 2: was talking about like our teaching styles and things like that,

1005
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 2: cause when you taught that for me, yeah, yeah, because

1006
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 2: when you taught that first night, I was like, oh cool,

1007
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: Like this gives me permission to be myself, you know,

1008
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 2: I don't have to because sometimes I'm like, man, are

1009
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 2: they wanting something? It's super loud and like, well, we're

1010
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 2: gonna chant these three words or you know, there's gonna

1011
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 2: be all these cliches and like like some people preach

1012
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 2: and you just feel like you're reading a Twitter feed,

1013
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 2: like everything is just tweetable, you know. And it was

1014
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 2: really refreshing. And I don't know how much teaching like that.

1015
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 2: My dad's been exposed to. But when you talked about

1016
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 2: reading God's Word just like as your treasure, not to

1017
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 2: get something out of it, I was like, Man, I'm

1018
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: not doing that. Like I'm either reading God's Word and

1019
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 2: sermon prep reading God's Word following along with what book

1020
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 2: we're going through at church, reading God's Word because it's

1021
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 2: family devo. And I'm like, man, I've gotten away from

1022
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 2: just reading it because I love it and it's my treasure.

1023
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: And so I've been using there's so many different Bible

1024
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 2: journaling methods. What I'm doing right now is called soap.

1025
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 2: So it's like scripture. You could write down the passage,

1026
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 2: you could write down a couple verses of the passage.

1027
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 2: You can write down one verse if you're just reading one,

1028
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 2: and then observation, application and then prayer. And I'm like,

1029
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 2: whatever books I'm not preaching through, whatever books we're not

1030
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: going through like at church, I'm just gonna read and

1031
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna read it all the way through, because

1032
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 2: like what you were saying was when we go to

1033
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 2: the Bible like that, we're only going to go to

1034
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: the Bible not to always challenge us, come for us. Yeah,

1035
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: And like I've done that in seasons of suffering, let

1036
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 2: me just go to the psalms, man, let me just

1037
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: go to and just be let me go to you know,

1038
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: Psalms forty six, you know. But sometimes we need to

1039
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 2: be challenged, and the Bible is very confrontational. And so

1040
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 2: we get back from the men's retreat and my dad

1041
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 2: stayed the night and I woke up in the morning

1042
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: and like, there he was on the back porch, you know,

1043
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 2: just with his Bible out, you know, reading his Bible,

1044
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 2: you know, and so like, I know that had an

1045
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 2: impact on him. I mean for a kid who never

1046
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 2: grew up seeing my dad read the Bible, you know,

1047
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 2: and it's like, man, Lord like all these things that

1048
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: I was so bitter about, and I look at my

1049
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 2: adult years now and I'm like, Lord, like you restored it.

1050
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 2: It wasn't And I know He's still good even for

1051
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 2: the people who've had that story and it didn't happen.

1052
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 2: But I'm just extra grateful that God allowed me to

1053
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 2: see those moments.

1054
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: You know. It's a miracle. Yeah, the only the Lord.

1055
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: And and there's nothing wrong to going going going to

1056
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 1: some forty right, Yeah, the Lord is my refuge and strength.

1057
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: But you're saying on top of that, Yeah, also make

1058
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: sure you got that diet, that daily die, that.

1059
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 2: The Bible is going to read you sometimes, you know. Yeah,

1060
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 2: don't just go to the places you're comfortable with, you know.

1061
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 2: So you're good.

1062
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: You're speaking tonight, just doing.

1063
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 2: Music and then speaking in the morning. So I'm gonna what.

1064
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: Does that look like? What does what does tonight look like? Ye?

1065
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: Does music look like tonight? So?

1066
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: Man, I mean, we're two musicians here, but we're from

1067
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 2: very different worlds, you know. So I'm from this exciting

1068
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 2: world of rap music, but the Lord saved me from

1069
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: the Christian music industry, so like I never was a

1070
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 2: part of it, you know. And I used to just

1071
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: be kind of bitter about that. And then I started

1072
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 2: meeting people who had been in it and been on

1073
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 2: the other side of it and lives wrecked and had

1074
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: to rediscover their love for Jesus and his church. And

1075
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 2: they're like, no, man, I would do anything to trade

1076
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 2: what I had for your like concerts for thirty people here,

1077
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: you know, one hundred people there, printing your own merge,

1078
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 2: like uploading your music through your own distributor, And like

1079
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: I've had some songs like in my mind, like Okay,

1080
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 2: Like I got to be a part of a successful

1081
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 2: song a few years ago that was in the Christian

1082
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 2: music world and went like number one on the Billboard,

1083
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 2: and that was like awesome experience to see that, And

1084
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, WHOA, Like you actually can like make money

1085
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 2: in music. I didn't know. But a lot of what

1086
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 2: I do, it's like, man, I'm using the music just

1087
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 2: as a tool to like create space for me to

1088
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: share about the gospel and share my testimony. So when

1089
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 2: tonight I'll be doing like a late night concert out

1090
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 2: of church camp. But there's a lot of lost kids

1091
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 2: there and they've been tapped out during the sermons, and

1092
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 2: suddenly someone comes doing music they're familiar with. But it's

1093
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 2: just like his attitude is different, his demeanor is different.

1094
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 2: And then in between the songs, he's talking about God

1095
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 2: like he really knows him, and he's talking about the

1096
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: scripture and if them and you've seen this, like you

1097
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 2: shared a really powerful testimony before we started. Music can

1098
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 2: just take people's guard down. Man. Long like to reject

1099
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 2: the gospel, you at least got to hear it even

1100
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 2: have a chance to reject it. So I look at

1101
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: my music is almost how I look at my mom,

1102
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 2: that there was this window when my mom went to

1103
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: this twenty eight day program in two thousand and seven,

1104
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 2: where I knew my mom was sober, And I'm like,

1105
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 2: here's my window, because now, can God do a miracle

1106
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 2: and sober someone up in an instant? Of course, can

1107
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 2: God do a miracle and open up deaf ears? You know,

1108
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 2: spiritually he does it all the time. But I'm like, hey,

1109
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 2: my mom's sobered up, right, now, here's the chance for

1110
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 2: me to just she's coherently there, so I can share

1111
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 2: the gospel with her. Sometimes with my music, it's just

1112
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 2: whether I'm at a church camp, whether I'm at an outreach,

1113
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 2: whether you know, we did our own tours in the past,

1114
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 2: which were pretty hilarious. Whatever I'm doing, I'm trying to

1115
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: use the music just to sober you up for a

1116
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 2: minute and maybe let that guard down so that I

1117
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 2: could preach Christ. And so I've always just I've never

1118
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 2: had the pressure of the music industry. I've never had

1119
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 2: the pressure of performance and numbers. When the Crez set

1120
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 2: me down in the studio and pretty much softly rebuked me,

1121
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 2: it was always about this is missional, Like this is ministry.

1122
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: This is to shape the culture and influence the culture

1123
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,479
Speaker 2: towards Christ. So it's like I try to be really

1124
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 2: good at what I do as far as the art form,

1125
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 2: but I never compromise. Like for me, music is is

1126
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 2: from the heart. It's it's just that's where it's supposed

1127
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: to come from. And rap music really and it's how

1128
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 2: it started, was really birth from people's pain and suffering

1129
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 2: and communicating from the heart. So I'm like, all right,

1130
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 2: if y'all want me to communicate from the heart, like

1131
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 2: this is a heart that's been redeemed, so you're gonna

1132
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 2: get you know, a lot of Jesus.

1133
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's beautiful thing. So you'll go in tonight

1134
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: with the DJ.

1135
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 2: Basically, normally my daughter DJs for me, and before that,

1136
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 2: my oldest son traveled with me for six years as

1137
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: my DJ. We got to just do father son side

1138
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 2: by side. I got to go to Africa, I got

1139
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: to go all over America. And then when my daughter

1140
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 2: was seven, she was ready to try to take over.

1141
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 2: So we tried to hold her back, but eventually we couldn't.

1142
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 2: And so now she'll DJ for me. But tonight I'm

1143
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: DJing for myself. Because my kids got VBS, so yeah,

1144
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 2: DBS does it come before Dad's concert? So yeah, I'll

1145
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 2: just I'll DJ for myself. I'll run tracks. When when

1146
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 2: I was in Japan, i went there back in October,

1147
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 2: I actually did my first acoustic concert where I played piano,

1148
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 2: which isn't really acoustic, but and played ukulele and did

1149
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: like an acoustic house concert, which was not normal, and

1150
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 2: I was speaking doing some songs in Japanese, so it

1151
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 2: was not fun. It required a lot of focus. But

1152
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 2: normally I got a DJ running tracks, and then in

1153
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 2: the morning I'll teach too, breakout sessions on how to

1154
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 2: share the gospel, you know, try to quick tomorrow. Yeah,

1155
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 2: so tomorrow morning.

1156
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: So good man. So is there spoken word involved in

1157
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: this or is it just rap?

1158
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? Spoken word did that? Yeah, so let's talk about

1159
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: that piece real quick. I I fell into spoken word

1160
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 2: because a church are just like, yeah, that's too fast.

1161
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 1: I just thought that what I thought.

1162
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 2: So I think there's certain artists who have the art

1163
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 2: form of spoken word, you know, better than I do.

1164
01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:00,479
Speaker 2: Because really, I'm a rapper first, so I I rely

1165
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 2: a lot more on meter and rhyme and tempo and rhythm.

1166
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 2: So I get asked by like a really big church

1167
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 2: back in twenty fifteen. So that's how old that piece

1168
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: is that you heard, all right, So I don't know

1169
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 2: how much you remember of it, but just try to

1170
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 2: think about the content. Here was my prompt. It's Easter Sunday.

1171
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, Resurrection Sunday. But keep going. They're like, uh,

1172
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 2: we want to talk about how God can just resurrect

1173
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 2: your dream. That was my prompt. Oh man, So I'm

1174
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 2: like so I'm like, okay, I'm like, man, I don't

1175
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 2: really think that's what the resurrection is about. So then

1176
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 2: I just went full gospel, you know, like we're going

1177
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 2: back to Genesis. We're talking, let's define the dream, glorify

1178
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 2: God and enjoy Him forever. That's from one of the catechisms, right,

1179
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 2: And I'm like, that's the dream that should be everyone's dream.

1180
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 2: And how did we lose that dream? Because sin, you know,

1181
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 2: into the world. And I'm thinking they're gonna shut this down,

1182
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 2: Like when I send this to the worship pastor, he's

1183
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 2: gonna be like this, there's blood in this, there's cross.

1184
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:17,919
Speaker 2: This is like explicit and I don't know if you've

1185
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 2: seen this with your music, but it's like sometimes you

1186
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 2: just get a pass if it's well done, and it's like, well,

1187
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 2: it's just so well done. So I did that peace

1188
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 2: and man, it just people were coming up to me.

1189
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: Like, what was that?

1190
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 2: Where did you get that? I'm like, it's the Gospel.

1191
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: I just I got it from the Bible. I've never

1192
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 2: heard it put like that. I'm like, it's in there,

1193
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 2: like and it was just kind of sad to me that. Yeah,

1194
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 2: it felt to Christians. So my brothers and sisters they

1195
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 2: were like, what is that like?

1196
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 1: But the Lord gave you that platform. Yeah, is there

1197
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: a little bit you could do here? Yeah, like an

1198
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: sit right here, like we.

1199
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 2: Got we need an ambient we need the Holy Spirit

1200
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 2: doesn't come until there's ambient music. So let me do

1201
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 2: a different piece. This one was called He reigns. I

1202
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 2: gotta take the glasses off. I can't do spoken word

1203
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 2: in glasses, says before the beginning? Wait, how does this

1204
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 2: before the beginning? When God? Yeah, here we go, before

1205
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 2: the beginning, when what we call ancient was far in

1206
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 2: the distant future. God reigned uninhibited no limit to the

1207
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 2: love between father son spirits. See God was without need,

1208
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 2: but because it pleased him He breathed in an exhaled

1209
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 2: man from dust, knowing the throne would be abandoned. Plus,

1210
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 2: his hands would touch his enemies and heal them. He

1211
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 2: was king over every atom in the universe, holding together

1212
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: the Earth's plates, telling the oceans where to stop. In

1213
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 2: the first place, Jesus existed before existence, but he left

1214
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 2: his throne instead. He chose a fleshly robe, inhabited the

1215
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 2: womb of a virgin. He knit together to be her

1216
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 2: son for a moment, but make her his forever. He

1217
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 2: was king over every king, gave everything to his father.

1218
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,479
Speaker 2: They saw the blistered feet, a homeless rabbi who would

1219
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 2: grit his teeth, wipe sweat from his brows, settled down,

1220
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 2: deliver speech that was salt and light to all who heard.

1221
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 2: But we we mocked him. We saw the only crown

1222
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: fit for him was laced with hate and jagged thorns.

1223
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 2: The only robe we ascribed to him was beaten, flesh

1224
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 2: blistering with blood splattered. For we ignored his precious name,

1225
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 2: But he reigns. And Jesus could have turned to his

1226
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 2: accuser and said, dear sir, the arm that you flex

1227
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 2: to drive these nails through my risk I Remember when

1228
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 2: I knit that muscle tissue in you, and young man,

1229
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 2: the saliva you spit at my mauled face, I created

1230
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 2: the glands that produce it. And young lady, the air

1231
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 2: you use to push out threats against me. Right now,

1232
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 2: I'm putting that air in your chest. Yes, this is

1233
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 2: the king who has never stopped reigning torrential rule. That's

1234
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 2: a heavy rain because even in his death there was victory, y'all,

1235
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 2: world forever change. This king was not left, Mamma, fied

1236
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 2: in a tomb, temple or pyramid. Open up the eyes

1237
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 2: of your heart. The throne to heaven is where he

1238
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 2: clearly is. We were not saved by a peasant. We

1239
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 2: weren't just saved by a good teacher. The creator of

1240
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 2: the cosmos, God is our redeemer. God saved us from

1241
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 2: himself for himself, by himself. And if you see that

1242
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 2: eternal blood rains through your vein lines, no one can

1243
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 2: pull in the reins on his everlasting rain because he rains. Amen.

1244
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 1: Amen, Now I gotta put the glasses back on. Amen.

1245
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: So good man, God is good. God is good, and

1246
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: the Lord has used you in your life and in

1247
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: your platform, and you're yeats it's so cool, so cool

1248
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: to see man. Yeah, what can we say besides he

1249
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: has done it.

1250
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, he rains. He rains even in the suffering, you know,

1251
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 2: like he rains. Don't lose sight of that, and that's

1252
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:46,719
Speaker 2: our hope.

1253
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: You know, where can people find you?

1254
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so on most social media platforms, just Dylan Chase. Okay,

1255
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 2: so d I L L O N. Chase. That's just

1256
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 2: what my mom named me. That's just whenever I was

1257
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 2: in trouble, she called me by my first and middle name,

1258
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 2: Dylan Chase. I'm like, man, that's got a ring to it.

1259
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 2: So I've always just put my music out under that. Yeah,

1260
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: you can wherever you find music or whatnot. I'm working

1261
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 2: on a new album really just based off this whole

1262
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 2: idea of sufferings temporary. It's called not Destroyed really just

1263
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 2: inspired by Second Corinthians for we're broken, but we're not destroyed,

1264
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 2: you know.

1265
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it's good man, appreciate you so much.

1266
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:31,759
Speaker 2: Man, thank you. It's been a blessing.

1267
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 1: If you come back to Texas, jump back on here.

1268
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cade the guy who was brought us together in

1269
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 2: near Maillo. He's trying to see how I would fit

1270
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 2: in that at the EEE Fest.

1271
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: Man, I gotta I'll be honest with you. Man I

1272
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 1: I if I had met you like one week after,

1273
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: because I was like, I want dyaling for YEGI Fest. Yeah,

1274
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: So next year, I'm gonna go to you with that

1275
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:54,679
Speaker 1: date as soon as we get it. And I gotta

1276
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 1: you gotta like take me shopping or something. Man, I

1277
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: gotta get the right I gotta get the right gear

1278
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 1: and the right hat. Oh your COVID Yeah yeah, we'll

1279
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: get you.

1280
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:03,679
Speaker 2: We'll get all the ee s. That's awesome.

1281
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't have to go to the store for that.

1282
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go.

1283
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: All right, bro, Thank you, thank you, Thank you so

1284
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 1: much for hanging out with me on this episode of

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01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: the Grangersmith podcast. I appreciate you being here. If you're

1286
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 1: listening right now, go ahead and rate today's podcast. It

1287
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:20,599
Speaker 1: helps more folks find the show. And if you're tuning

1288
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 1: in on the iHeartRadio app, you could actually set this

1289
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 1: podcast as one of your presets, which is cool that way.

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01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 1: I'm just one tap away. If you're watching on YouTube,

1291
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 1: don't forget to hit like and subscribe so you don't

1292
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 1: miss any new episodes. And if you've got a question

1293
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 1: you want answered right here on the show. Just email

1294
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: me podcast at grangersmith dot com. I'd love to hear

1295
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 1: from you. Thanks again for being here. We'll see you

1296
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: next time.

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01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 2: Ye