Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar Blazar and Lazar.
Speaker 2: Everybody nailed it joined us always buy our bar gap.
Speaker 2: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars. You're not usually
Speaker 2: into the numbers.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm okay we do something. I'm into the
Speaker 1: tangible numbers. There's there's just give me the advantage. And
Speaker 1: in fact, you haven't know how to work it. I'm surprised, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, an old man over here. I thought maybe
Speaker 1: i'd have to show you like a tutorial or something.
Speaker 2: How am I old man? You're an old man because
Speaker 2: you you don't like the stats, even though you're this generation.
Speaker 2: You're supposed to like stats. You're supposed to be. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I don't know you want me to tell you. You're
Speaker 2: supposed to be mister. You know you're like E P A,
Speaker 2: d v O A next gen. You know you're supposed
Speaker 2: to eat that stuff up like that's that's literally why
Speaker 2: they put that stuff on the broadcast now for people
Speaker 2: like us, the nerds.
Speaker 1: But don't plant me in with that.
Speaker 2: This is when they do that, you know the replay.
Speaker 1: I'd rather see the color guy explain x's and ohs,
Speaker 1: Why the play that happened happened?
Speaker 2: This is my Roman empire is thinking about the fact
Speaker 2: that you are just as much of a nerd as me,
Speaker 2: but you're also anti nerd at the same time. It
Speaker 2: doesn't compute in my head.
Speaker 1: And you know how I feel about you hating country
Speaker 1: music and liking Morgan Wallen.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna end it there with the computer. Wait,
Speaker 2: what are you doing?
Speaker 1: What do you do about to plug my computer before
Speaker 1: the show?
Speaker 2: Oh? Geez, is that like a thing that you have
Speaker 2: to do right this? Yeah, it's almost dead. Okay, all right,
Speaker 2: do you do your You do your thing? Uh So
Speaker 2: Evan Lazar Alex Bars Patriots Cast twenty two with you
Speaker 2: for the next couple of hours, will take your phone
Speaker 2: calls or take your emails. I just want to put
Speaker 2: this out there, and I know you told me not
Speaker 2: to do this, but I'm gonna do it anyway because
Speaker 2: I feel bad. I'm going to put it out there
Speaker 2: that you know we I almost treat this show almost
Speaker 2: like a pot podcast. For the first like forty minutes
Speaker 2: is pot where you and I are going to just
Speaker 2: get our takes off. For the first forty minutes and
Speaker 2: then we'll open the phone lines in the email. So
Speaker 2: I don't want you people to think that I'm like
Speaker 2: neglecting you on hold, Like we see your phones. We're
Speaker 2: gonna get to the phones. But we have liked you know,
Speaker 2: we have a lot to talk about. There's a lot
Speaker 2: to talk about with this team right now. With that
Speaker 2: putting that out there, Uh oh wait one second, some
Speaker 2: more housekeeping items. Hey Patriots fans. If you want to
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Speaker 2: England Patriots, Toyota. Let's go places, and Massachusetts is made
Speaker 2: for everyone. That's true for leaf peepers, corn maze strollers,
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Speaker 2: Come to where there's something for everyone everyone this fall Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: where everything is made possible. Plan your trip at visit
Speaker 2: m dot com. All right, So here's where I want
Speaker 2: to start today. Because last week I did forty minutes
Speaker 2: off the top of the show complaining about the offense
Speaker 2: I railed on Alex Van Pelt. I railed on Jacoby Brissett.
Speaker 2: I railed a little bit on the offensive line, and
Speaker 2: I've just decided, now after this forty nine Ers game
Speaker 2: Bart that I've just come to terms with the fact
Speaker 2: that the Patriots offense until Drake May gets in there,
Speaker 2: this is probably how it's going to look. Last week,
Speaker 2: I complained, and I said, you got to get the
Speaker 2: ball out of the quarterback's hands, quicker. You can't be
Speaker 2: running these bootleg and seven step drops from under center
Speaker 2: and expecting that to go well with this offensive line.
Speaker 2: They kind of listened. Alex Van Pelt kind of listened.
Speaker 2: Sixteen dropbacks in under two and a half seconds, got
Speaker 2: the ball out a little bit. This week. Ran a
Speaker 2: lot of quick game, ran a lot of stuff close
Speaker 2: to the line of scrimmage. They just can't execute anything well.
Speaker 2: So whether it's seven step drop, it's three step, it's
Speaker 2: quick game, it's gone, it's under center or whatever, they
Speaker 2: don't do any of it well. So I at this point,
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to excuse anybody. I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: give any passes, but the offensively, I don't want to
Speaker 2: start there, even though I just started there, because I
Speaker 2: just I've given up I've given up, Like until May
Speaker 2: gets in there, I just don't know what else they're
Speaker 2: gonna do.
Speaker 1: Well, look, I think it will get better than that.
Speaker 1: You also have to consider what the offensive line was,
Speaker 1: and that certainly led to some limitations. Right, you have
Speaker 1: a guy making his first career NFL start, he played
Speaker 1: fourteen snaps before Sunday and Trey Jacobs. I don't mean
Speaker 1: to pick on him, but oh, your fifteenth NFL snap.
Speaker 2: Nick Bosa, Like that's tough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really tough. So the offensive line would be better.
Speaker 1: But I agree with you kind of in the big
Speaker 1: picture that I think this is kind of the offense
Speaker 1: philosophy they're gonna have.
Speaker 2: Under Jakobe Brssett.
Speaker 1: But I still think, and I know we disagree on this,
Speaker 1: but I just still think there are certain things that
Speaker 1: the offensive line is going to cap their ability to do,
Speaker 1: regardless of who the quarterback is, especially right now, and
Speaker 1: guys aren't healthy, and they'll get some guys backs, some
Speaker 1: guys they won't get back, right, And David Andrews are
Speaker 1: still waiting to hear about Kaden Wallace, But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is it, Kandy is what is this is the
Speaker 1: group they put together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm in agreement with you on the
Speaker 2: offensive line at this point, mainly because now there's so
Speaker 2: many injuries to boot with all of the other issues
Speaker 2: that they have talent wise, right, just in general that
Speaker 2: you know, you lose David Andrews, you have no idea
Speaker 2: who your left tackle is going to be weak in
Speaker 2: and week out. It's just gotten ugly up there. Even
Speaker 2: beyond the fact that they don't have a franchise left
Speaker 2: tackle or a great you know, right tackle right now
Speaker 2: either even know on when who played better I thought
Speaker 2: last week, But in general, it just they don't have
Speaker 2: the horses on the offensive side of the ball. So
Speaker 2: for me to keep coming on here and picking on
Speaker 2: the offense and picking on the offense and a VP
Speaker 2: and Brissette and all those guys, it doesn't seem fair,
Speaker 2: almost like a trade. Jacobs's fault that he can't block
Speaker 2: Nick Bosa. No, but this is what I was saying
Speaker 2: last week.
Speaker 1: I just I just I'm curious or I don't know
Speaker 1: if you're going back on the take you had last
Speaker 1: week or from just missing it.
Speaker 2: But remember last week talk.
Speaker 1: About the Rams are figuring it out even though they
Speaker 1: have their injuries and whatever, and I said, yeah, but
Speaker 1: their injuries, it's different because they're starting from a higher point.
Speaker 1: This was kind of my whole tape when we had
Speaker 1: that conversation last week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, was they are who they are. Yeah, I what
Speaker 2: changed for me And granted it it's probably even premature now,
Speaker 2: but because the forty nine ers are just a much
Speaker 2: better team than you are. But what changed for me
Speaker 2: is I actually thought the game plan and the script
Speaker 2: that they called last week was what they have to
Speaker 2: do with this group. They came out and they got
Speaker 2: the ball out of Jacoby Brissett's hands. If first third
Speaker 2: down of the game, they run a designed rollout into
Speaker 2: the sideline for Pop Douglas, So they didn't just have
Speaker 2: them drop back and sit there, you know, and have
Speaker 2: the pass rush tee off on them. They ran a
Speaker 2: lot of quick game. They tried to get the ball
Speaker 2: into guys playmakers' hands quickly. I think that actually the
Speaker 2: rollout was the second third down. The first third down
Speaker 2: I think was that little throw into the flat. Ormandre
Speaker 2: just broke a tackle and was able to convert after
Speaker 2: the catch. Like that is what I wanted them to do.
Speaker 2: Two weeks ago against the jets that they didn't do.
Speaker 2: And now I've seen them do that and it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: well they can't run the offense that Van Pelta actually
Speaker 2: wants to run. We know that they can't run a
Speaker 2: quick game offense either with this collection of talent. So
Speaker 2: what am I gonna yell at about? Like I could
Speaker 2: do another hour on Drake may should be playing, but
Speaker 2: that doesn't serve a purpose because he's not. He's not
Speaker 2: gonna play. So with that being said, I don't want
Speaker 2: to get bogged down by that because I want to
Speaker 2: talk about the defense. Yep. Defensively, I'm my concern level
Speaker 2: for the defense is almost higher at this point than
Speaker 2: it is for the offense because my expectations for the
Speaker 2: offense are is so low and my defensive expectations were higher. Right,
Speaker 2: So now at this point I just said, I can't
Speaker 2: really pick on the coaching from last week because I
Speaker 2: think they tried to do the right things and it
Speaker 2: just still didn't go well. Defensively, they are playing below
Speaker 2: their talent level. Would you agree with that? Yes? And no,
Speaker 2: I think they're playing I mean what talent level?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: So I had people kind of on Twitter during after
Speaker 1: the game on Sunday being like, well, you said this
Speaker 1: could be a top ten defense when camp started, like
Speaker 1: and you know you were wrong, blah Blah's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I said a unit that had Christian Barmore and Matthew
Speaker 1: Judon and Juwan Bentley could be a top ten defense.
Speaker 1: You lose those guys, you don't just get to be
Speaker 1: a top ten defense off reputation. So I still think
Speaker 1: they're playing below the level of talent of the guys
Speaker 1: they've available, But I do think that lost talent. And look,
Speaker 1: they decided to trade Matthew Judon, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I don't really they had to have
Speaker 2: had to plan probably Kean right, Joshua and Fredy general
Speaker 2: we can get to uch.
Speaker 1: We kind of said that at this at the time,
Speaker 1: that like, how is this going to work?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: There are still guys like josh Ucha who I think
Speaker 1: are are not playing well right now, hurting them. But
Speaker 1: I also do think you have to look at it
Speaker 1: as this is not the defense we spent the summer
Speaker 1: talking about. It is not the same play. You could
Speaker 1: argue they've lost three are the best four three and
Speaker 1: you want to throw Kyle Dugger in there as well.
Speaker 1: For their best six defensive players. Right, they still have Gonzales,
Speaker 1: they still have White. But if you were, if we
Speaker 1: were at the beginning of camp to rank the best
Speaker 1: defensive players, it would be in some order chewed on
Speaker 1: bar More, Bentley, Dugger, Peppers all fight, and you'd throw
Speaker 1: in White and Gonzalez.
Speaker 4: Rr.
Speaker 1: But we didn't know because those guys have only played
Speaker 1: one year. Those five were really supposed to be the
Speaker 1: cornerstones of your defense. Four of them are now hurt
Speaker 1: and one they traded away. Yeah, so this is and
Speaker 1: we knew depth was an issue. We talked about depth
Speaker 1: being an issue at safety, We talked about depth being
Speaker 1: an issue at corner. We talked a lot about depth
Speaker 1: being an issue on the edge. This is just sort
Speaker 1: of where they put themselves.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just gonna slightly disagree because the main reason
Speaker 2: being is that I have seen the guys that they
Speaker 2: have out there play better football.
Speaker 1: So, okay, is not this bad? No, no, no, So
Speaker 1: I agree with you on that. I do think there's
Speaker 1: more potential for them to be better than they are.
Speaker 1: But I think part of it for the fans watching, yeah,
Speaker 1: hearing about what a great defense it was going to be,
Speaker 1: and then seeing this, that's.
Speaker 2: Part of the equation. It should not be this bad up.
Speaker 2: But there are guys.
Speaker 1: Well, Tava is an interesting one because to me, the
Speaker 1: problem is he's playing out of position.
Speaker 2: Well, let's get to it. But I want to unpack it.
Speaker 2: So I just want to throw out a couple of
Speaker 2: stats first and foremost, just to kind of set the
Speaker 2: table here right now. On defense, they are twenty eighth
Speaker 2: in the league in DVOA. On defense, they are a
Speaker 2: bottom five defense in the NFL. Number they are twenty eighth.
Speaker 1: No, not, you're made up. What do you means not
Speaker 1: your made up acronyms. Give me a real number. Well,
Speaker 1: give me a real number of out the defense.
Speaker 2: Okay, want a real number? Yes, how about yards per play?
Speaker 2: Does that work for you?
Speaker 1: That's a real number.
Speaker 2: Yes, they are twenty seventh in the league and yards
Speaker 2: that's not good. Guess what they were last year and
Speaker 2: probably middle of the pack. Third, Oh wow, top five,
Speaker 2: top five. I'm gonna give you the fake number again
Speaker 2: because you're a hater.
Speaker 1: One fake number, one real number, will do it like this.
Speaker 2: Nine. They were ninth in DVOA last year. This was
Speaker 2: with Matthew Judah and Christian Gonzales basically playing for a
Speaker 2: quarter of the season, final twelve weeks of the season,
Speaker 2: and I get it. You know, if Paul was here,
Speaker 2: he would tell me they played a bunch of Tommy
Speaker 2: DeVito's and Gardner Minshew's and they'll get one of those
Speaker 2: on Sunday with Tyler Huntley and maybe the defense will
Speaker 2: look better. But the point being is that they were
Speaker 2: third in yards per play last year. Yeah, they were
Speaker 2: ninth and DVOA last year they are twenty eighth and
Speaker 2: twenty seventh, respectfully in those stats this year. I'll give
Speaker 2: you one last one. This is a tangible one for you.
Speaker 2: This is a real stat third down defense.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's tangible.
Speaker 2: The Patriots are thirty first in the league on third
Speaker 2: down run. It's brutal, thirty first. For the record, I
Speaker 2: didn't disagree with your take. I just didn't want you
Speaker 2: to do DVA. I know, thirty first in the league
Speaker 2: on defense on third down defense last year they were seventh.
Speaker 2: So they haven't just Christian Barmoard and Juwan Bentley regressed here.
Speaker 2: They have hardcore regressed. Like this is a major drop off.
Speaker 2: And let's also not forget that with Barmore and without
Speaker 2: bent you know, without Bentley and Barmore, if you want
Speaker 2: to throw dude on there. They also got back Christian Gonzales, right,
Speaker 2: they also got back certain guys. You know, Keon White
Speaker 2: is a better football player this year than he was
Speaker 2: last year. So as much as I want to agree
Speaker 2: with you about some of the injuries, I Mike rape
Speaker 2: right now at the defense is this, and this is
Speaker 2: my big take for you. Can I give you one
Speaker 2: more number? Two? You can because I I because you
Speaker 2: know I love the numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, you know how I could scoring?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: What's on the scoreboard? What are we talking about there? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So they actually haven't dropped that much.
Speaker 2: In terms of over their scoring. Seventeenth.
Speaker 1: They're seventeenth. They finished last year fifteenth. But part of
Speaker 1: that is because I was actually looking. You just made
Speaker 1: me think this because looking at something similar earlier. They're
Speaker 1: running the ball a lot and they're shortening the games. Right,
Speaker 1: points per drive allowed? You want to guess what they are?
Speaker 1: You want to do the guessing game?
Speaker 2: Wait, give me again, give it to me again.
Speaker 1: Points per dry, points allowed per drive. Oh so this
Speaker 1: is basically they're probably down. You have points allowed, but
Speaker 1: because the games are so much shorter because the clock
Speaker 1: running right now, that's why I brought up yards per play. Okay,
Speaker 1: so yeah, so this is similar. So last year they
Speaker 1: were actually fifth. Yeah, they allowed one point six yards
Speaker 1: per drive for just because this is a staff people
Speaker 1: use a lot. The Ravens led the league at one
Speaker 1: point three per drive. The Commanders were dead last to
Speaker 1: two point five, So you kind of want to be
Speaker 1: between one point five and two point five. This year
Speaker 1: they ranked twenty second two point one to one yards
Speaker 1: per drive. They're averaging an extra half point per drive,
Speaker 1: which doesn't sound like a lot. It is a lot
Speaker 1: over the course of a game that that adds up,
Speaker 1: and they're doing that because they have to shorten the
Speaker 1: games because it's the only way they can win. It
Speaker 1: significantly decreases the margin forrer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand that there's always that element with this
Speaker 2: defense that they're on the field a lot in some
Speaker 2: of these games. Even though that wasn't true for the
Speaker 2: first two games of the year, it has been true
Speaker 2: the last two games. There are a time of possession
Speaker 2: numbers have even doubt. At this point they're middle of
Speaker 2: the pack, and time of possession after being pretty good
Speaker 2: in the first two weeks. There, They're on the field
Speaker 2: a lot, their offense isn't scoring, their margin forreerr is
Speaker 2: not very big.
Speaker 1: To your point, they were on the field a lot
Speaker 1: last year. Yeah, and relative to how much they were
Speaker 1: on the field, they are allowing significantly more points this
Speaker 1: year than they were last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So my big picture thought, and then I wanted
Speaker 2: to talk about this forty nine ers game specifically, and
Speaker 2: then one other big picture type of item, my big
Speaker 2: picture thought with this team in general, but I specifically
Speaker 2: look at the defense with Grod Mayo and say, you're
Speaker 2: a defensive guy, like this is your side of the ball.
Speaker 2: You're a former linebacker turned defensive assistant coach turn head coach,
Speaker 2: like this is supposed to be you are supposed to
Speaker 2: be Demico Ryance, right, Like that's supposed to be your
Speaker 2: defense that you are running. My biggest gripe right now
Speaker 2: at this defense and with the team as a whole.
Speaker 2: But I put more on girod for the defense for
Speaker 2: those reasons. This is screaming and I'm not saying he's
Speaker 2: not doing this. It's just not manifesting itself on Sundays.
Speaker 2: This is screaming for Girod to come into a coaches
Speaker 2: meeting on Tuesday, Monday Tuesday and say what are we
Speaker 2: doing on third down? DeMarcus, what the heck are we
Speaker 2: doing on third down? We're thirty first in the league
Speaker 2: on third down. We can't get off the field, and
Speaker 2: the main reason is the edge. We know that they're
Speaker 2: letting the quarterbacks out of the pocket, the quarterbacks either
Speaker 2: scrambling or he's extending plays, and then they're finding receivers
Speaker 2: open down the field. But we'll talk about this more
Speaker 2: in a minute, but it's just also let's not involve
Speaker 2: the player errors for a second, like schematically, what are
Speaker 2: we doing on third down that we can do differently
Speaker 2: that can be better, because we need to throw out
Speaker 2: what we're doing now, like dead, second to last in
Speaker 2: the league is not where the New England Patriots should
Speaker 2: be on defense. It just isn't. So we need to
Speaker 2: throw that out and we need to start over there. Well,
Speaker 2: we get into the player meetings, the squad meetings, setting
Speaker 2: the edge of the defense has to be non negotiable.
Speaker 2: You either set the edge or you're on the bench.
Speaker 2: I don't care if you're Keon White. I don't care
Speaker 2: if you're Joshua Uce, Anthony Jennings. I don't care if
Speaker 2: you're somebody from the practice squad that they elevated in
Speaker 2: a just on a one off in a week. If
Speaker 2: you're gonna play defense for us, you're gonna set the
Speaker 2: edge and you're gonna keep the quarterback in the pocket.
Speaker 2: Non negotiable. I'd say the same thing on the other
Speaker 2: side of the ball about turnovers and fumbling Ramandre Stevenson,
Speaker 2: non negotiable, right like, this is not going to go
Speaker 2: fly here and first drive of the game against San Francisco,
Speaker 2: and I agree with DeMarcus Comington, who we spoke to
Speaker 2: this morning and he said it improved over the course
Speaker 2: of the game. I agree with that it wasn't as
Speaker 2: big of a problem outside of that opening drive as
Speaker 2: it was later on on in the game. But opening
Speaker 2: drive of the game, three third downs in a row,
Speaker 2: three blown edges in a row. You're either coaching it
Speaker 2: or you're allowing it to happen. It's that simple, and
Speaker 2: right now the coaching staff is allowing this kind of
Speaker 2: stuff to happen. So on that level, we have to schematically,
Speaker 2: we have to change up what we're doing on third down.
Speaker 2: It's clearly not working what they're trying to do on
Speaker 2: third down, and then we have to hold the players
Speaker 2: accountable for their performance and their errors on the field.
Speaker 2: I feel like this whole team is screaming for the
Speaker 2: head coach to put his foot down on some of
Speaker 2: these things. And it's not let's make a list of
Speaker 2: fifty things that we need to do better. It's let's
Speaker 2: make a list of five things. Let's make a list
Speaker 2: of three things that we need to do better.
Speaker 1: Was it sounds like what they did last week with
Speaker 1: the non negotiables that he was talking about, Like we
Speaker 1: didn't accomplish the non negotiables.
Speaker 2: There's you're not going to fix everything that ails you
Speaker 2: in one week, right. They're not all of a sudden
Speaker 2: going to be this buttoned up team with a great
Speaker 2: offensive line and receivers make and plays in YadA, YadA YadA.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna look like that. So let's narrow it
Speaker 2: down to like three or four things that we tangibly
Speaker 2: feel like we can fix. I feel like they can
Speaker 2: fix their third down defense. There are reps on film
Speaker 2: of their third down defense where they have good rush,
Speaker 2: they have good coverage, They just need to marry the
Speaker 2: two of them together more consistently. So I think they
Speaker 2: can be better on third down. You're better on third
Speaker 2: down you get off the field that you don't give
Speaker 2: up all these points, You don't give up all these yards,
Speaker 2: right because you're not extending drives. Now, I want to
Speaker 2: talk about the forty nine Ers game specifically. The forty
Speaker 2: nine Ers game to me came down to personnel. When
Speaker 2: the Patriots opened the game and nickel, they got run
Speaker 2: on in nickel, so they adjusted to base. That was
Speaker 2: the game. So in nickel defense they were giving up
Speaker 2: almost seven yards of carry. It was twelve for like
Speaker 2: eighty yards right around that range when they got into
Speaker 2: the game. Very first play of the game is an
Speaker 2: outside zone play to Deebo Samuel. He goes for eight yards.
Speaker 2: And then as soon as they started giving up all
Speaker 2: those yards on the ground, they put heavy personnel on
Speaker 2: the field. They put base defense on the field. And
Speaker 2: what does Kyle Shanahan do. He goes over the top,
Speaker 2: he starts throwing the ball, and then they throw on
Speaker 2: base defense. They have five explosive plays in the passing
Speaker 2: game against base defense. Brock Purty averaged sixteen yards per
Speaker 2: attempt against base defense ridiculous sixteen per attempt per attempt
Speaker 2: in that game on Sunday.
Speaker 1: What do you have to say about Rock Party?
Speaker 2: Evan, good game by Brock, good game by Kyle. But
Speaker 2: this ye have to say about Rock Party, This stuff,
Speaker 2: this stuff isn't complicated. Though they they hit four explosives
Speaker 2: on the same concept, the same post cross concept, they
Speaker 2: didn't do it. This was not even in Kyle's bag,
Speaker 2: Like he wasn't even in the deep part of the
Speaker 2: bag yet, Like he was just he didn't even need
Speaker 2: to dust off those plays, like the plays that he
Speaker 2: would call in like a big game, right, like he
Speaker 2: was just this was day one install type stuff for
Speaker 2: the forty nine ers that they were straight the Patriots with.
Speaker 2: When it comes to coaching there, first of all, there's
Speaker 2: no reason why Jelanni Teva should be the Tampa two
Speaker 2: linebacker and base defense and covering Brandon Ayuk and Juwan
Speaker 2: Jennings twenty five yards down the field. That is not
Speaker 2: on Jolannie Devai. That's not his game. That's not what
Speaker 2: he's here for. That's not what he's built for. That's
Speaker 2: a coaching issue. You can't allow Jilannievie to be in
Speaker 2: that position where he's covering those guys, and it's.
Speaker 1: Not just that, it's not just like, that's not what
Speaker 1: am I trying to say? Like, remember the first year here,
Speaker 1: he was like bad and we were all like, why
Speaker 1: is Johnny Tevai here? And then Bill came out in
Speaker 1: the summer and was like He's gonna make the team.
Speaker 2: We were like what.
Speaker 1: And then his first year here he was playing this role,
Speaker 1: he was playing off the ball. So they have seen
Speaker 1: him in this role in this defense and it not work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's not even like all right, well our depths then,
Speaker 1: so we gotta try this. You know, he's not the
Speaker 1: guy for that, because they they tried that when did
Speaker 1: you get here?
Speaker 2: Twenty two?
Speaker 1: I think right twenty one around there? They try that
Speaker 1: with him and it didn't work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they have him playing in a bad position
Speaker 2: for him. You know that's not going to work. Him
Speaker 2: playing that far down the field and having to cover
Speaker 2: receivers and you know athletic receivers, good receivers, you know,
Speaker 2: I you Brandon Deebo, Samuel Dwan Jennings like really good players. Right,
Speaker 2: you can't have a two hundred and fifty pound linebacker
Speaker 2: doing that sort of stuff that to me is coaching.
Speaker 2: And what it goes back to is I thought about
Speaker 2: this after I watched this game and I saw the
Speaker 2: splits of Bass Nickel and like all this stuff that's
Speaker 2: going on from the personnel standpoint, and I know it's unfair,
Speaker 2: but we all are doing it. I'm sure what would
Speaker 2: Bill have done? What would Bill have done in this spot?
Speaker 2: And my reaction to what Bill would have done in
Speaker 2: this spot was he would have said, if you want
Speaker 2: to run the ball forty times and average six yards
Speaker 2: of carry against our nickel defense and shorten the game
Speaker 2: for us and give us a chance to stay in
Speaker 2: this thing because it's thirteen ten in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 2: because we both ran the ball forty times, have at
Speaker 2: it be my guest he would not have pulled the
Speaker 2: plug on Nickel as quickly as this regime did. Right
Speaker 2: like he would have held his water. And maybe if
Speaker 2: they got into halftime and they were twenty to nothing
Speaker 2: and halftime and it was a real real issue, like
Speaker 2: they were averaging. You know, they had one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty rushing yards at halftime and they just couldn't even
Speaker 2: come close to stopping the run game. Then maybe there
Speaker 2: would have been a big adjustment.
Speaker 1: Well what do you think he would have done, like
Speaker 1: factoring and they couldn't set the edge, not just containing
Speaker 1: the quarterback in the pocket, they couldn't set the edge
Speaker 1: in the run game.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I just think it's hard to play that way
Speaker 1: if you can't set the edge in the run game, right.
Speaker 2: I think from a personnel standpoint, he would have told
Speaker 2: them to keep running the ball, you know, not literally,
Speaker 2: but you know what I'm saying, Like he would have said,
Speaker 2: it's fine, just run the ball. We're what we're not
Speaker 2: gonna do is we're not gonna allow the explosive pass
Speaker 2: plays through the air. We're not gonna allow you to
Speaker 2: hit the pat You're gonna be able to run the
Speaker 2: ball today, but you're not gonna be able to And
Speaker 2: this game would happen was is they let the Niners
Speaker 2: do both. The Nyers could do whatever they wanted. They
Speaker 2: could pass it, they could throw it, they could run it,
Speaker 2: they could do whatever they want. Bill would have shut
Speaker 2: off one of those faucets, right, Like, you can have
Speaker 2: one way, but you can't have it the other. And
Speaker 2: most of the time towards the end. I would say,
Speaker 2: I don't know what it was like in the beginning,
Speaker 2: but most of the time he would give up the run.
Speaker 2: He would say, just run the ball. Run the ball
Speaker 2: forty times. We'll run it forty times, it'll be seventeen
Speaker 2: to thirteen, and we'll see where the cards lie at
Speaker 2: the end of the game. Like that, That's how I
Speaker 2: feel like it would have gone with Bill. The other
Speaker 2: thing that just came to me that I felt was
Speaker 2: kind of annoying to an extent, or just not annoying.
Speaker 2: Annoying is the wrong word. I just thought was interesting
Speaker 2: was on Saturday, I was at the Giants game and
Speaker 2: they sign Isaiah Bolden to the fifty three man roster,
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking to myself, Huh, this might be creative,
Speaker 2: this might be different. Maybe they're thinking of playing Isaiah
Speaker 2: Bolden in the nickel instead of Marcus Jones because they
Speaker 2: know that Kyle Shanahan is gonna put the nickel in
Speaker 2: the run fit, like they know they're gonna run it
Speaker 2: at the edge and they're gonna run it at one
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty pounds of Marcus Jones, who on the
Speaker 2: very first play of the game on the eight yard
Speaker 2: carry I mentioned earlier, gets turned outside of his gap
Speaker 2: by Juwan Jennings and just has like no chance. Like
Speaker 2: it's a six three, two hundred and fifteen pound guy
Speaker 2: against a five foot eight hundred and eighty pound guy.
Speaker 2: Do you do the math, like who's gonna win that battle?
Speaker 2: So I thought, Okay, maybe they're gonna give Isaiah Bolden
Speaker 2: a chance to play the nickel. That way, there you
Speaker 2: have a more athletic guy that can drop in coverage
Speaker 2: and do those types of things. But he's bigger, and
Speaker 2: he's longer, and he's heavier than Marcus Jones, and that
Speaker 2: might allow him to hold up in the run game
Speaker 2: against Nickel. Didn't play, didn't play till the very end
Speaker 2: of the game when it was garbage time. Three safety Nickel.
Speaker 2: I get they lost Dugger at halftime, but it could
Speaker 2: have been Pettis Hawkins as your deep safety. Is Jabriel
Speaker 2: Peppers as as your nickel, right, it could have been
Speaker 2: Hawkins as the nickel Peppers deep. Like Hawkins and Peppers
Speaker 2: are gonna play significant snaps for this team. They are
Speaker 2: de facto starters, both of them. So it's not like
Speaker 2: I'm putting in Peppers a captain, I know, but I'm
Speaker 2: just talking about Hawkins. You know, I'm not putting in
Speaker 2: a guy we just signed from the practice squad yesterday.
Speaker 2: I'm putting in a guy that's playing for us in real,
Speaker 2: real significant time. So there was no adjustment like that,
Speaker 2: There was no creativity like that. Their adjustment was to
Speaker 2: go base. They they got into base, they began stopping
Speaker 2: the run and base, but then they gave up the
Speaker 2: pass plays and it just felt to me like they
Speaker 2: had coaching wise, they just really did not have an
Speaker 2: answer for any of it, which is demoralizing. I just
Speaker 2: I don't know where they go on that side of
Speaker 2: the ball right now, because they are underperforming by my expectations,
Speaker 2: and I haven't seen this coaching staff the chops yet
Speaker 2: to adjust on the fly and make a good adjustment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm with you, And I also just
Speaker 1: think sometimes what you have to do when all right,
Speaker 1: the game plan's not working, You gotta tell your blue
Speaker 1: chip players go out there and make a play. Who
Speaker 1: are they telling to do that at this point? Like
Speaker 1: teams aren't throwing your Christianzalz. You can't really do that
Speaker 1: with a corner, right You had in these situations. Matthew
Speaker 1: Judon go out there and make a play. Christian Barmer
Speaker 1: will go out there and make a play. The closes
Speaker 1: they have is Keon White, who's getting a ton of attention. Now,
Speaker 1: you don't really have another guy it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: josh U Chip. You don't really have another guy you
Speaker 1: can turn to for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I would like to see this staff.
Speaker 2: They've been pretty vanilla on the defensive side of the
Speaker 2: ball so far. Maybe some of that is is injuries,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but really, three weeks in a row,
Speaker 2: Ryan Grubb, Nate Hackett, who's not a good offensive coordinator
Speaker 2: with the Jets, and obviously now Kyle Shanahan have had
Speaker 2: their way with this defense in this coaching staff. On
Speaker 2: the they've got out coached in three straight games on
Speaker 2: the defensive side of the ball. This is what happens
Speaker 2: when you come out Week one against the Bengals, you
Speaker 2: put some new stuff on film. These coaches are too smart.
Speaker 2: They're gonna watch your film and they're gonna say, oh, like,
Speaker 2: you know, they were doing this last year. It's similar,
Speaker 2: but it's different in you know this way, that way
Speaker 2: and this way and we're gonna adjust to it, and
Speaker 2: we're gonna have their play calls ready. We're gonna have
Speaker 2: our shot plays ready for when they play this coverage
Speaker 2: or that coverage and they adjust. It's now it's time
Speaker 2: for Covington and Mayo and Pellegrino and Brian Belichick and
Speaker 2: all these guys to get back together and figure out
Speaker 2: a way to adjust to the adjustments. And right now
Speaker 2: they just haven't been quick enough to that punch. We'll
Speaker 2: see what they do on Sunday. Yeah, third down the
Speaker 2: biggest thing to me on third down. Right now, they're
Speaker 2: thirty first in the league. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: heard that.
Speaker 1: You didn't mention that.
Speaker 2: I said that seven times because it's can't believe it.
Speaker 2: Thirty first in the league on third down, and I
Speaker 2: should mention this too. Their base defense against San Francisco
Speaker 2: was fifty eight percent. That was the highest base defense
Speaker 2: rate they've played in the game in the Next Gen
Speaker 2: era going back six seasons. That's the highest amount of
Speaker 2: base they've ever played in the game since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: Their other Next Gen Era stat that, I'll give you
Speaker 2: man coverage on third down. They're playing the lowest amount
Speaker 2: of man coverage they've played in six years on there.
Speaker 1: That one I don't get, especially against the team league.
Speaker 1: We talked about this with the Jets. These bigger receivers
Speaker 1: you don't especially not to play as at Bolden. You
Speaker 1: don't have the personnel to you know, kind of physically
Speaker 1: handle bigger receivers in the middle of the field.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to win technically, right. So they aren't
Speaker 2: playing as much third down anymore. They're playing a lot
Speaker 2: of too high safety shell. They're playing a lot of
Speaker 2: Cover two on third down. When you play Cover two,
Speaker 2: especially two man, which they've played a couple reps in
Speaker 2: of two man against San Francisco. The big ish with
Speaker 2: playing Cover two is that there's nobody that's assigned to
Speaker 2: the quarterback. The quarterback, there's no free defender in the
Speaker 2: box or at the first let's call it the first
Speaker 2: two levels of the defense. There's no free defender to
Speaker 2: mirror the quarterback in the pocket, So as soon as
Speaker 2: the quarterback gets outside the pocket, he just has free
Speaker 2: rain out there to do whatever he wants. So they're
Speaker 2: playing a lot of Cover two with a four man rush.
Speaker 2: So when you play Cover two four man rush, you
Speaker 2: have those two high safeties up top. What they used
Speaker 2: to do is they'd play man with a post safety
Speaker 2: in the middle of the field. And now that other
Speaker 2: safety is he's in the rat or like a robber roll,
Speaker 2: or he's a spy on the quarterback in the low hole.
Speaker 2: Now they don't have that player anymore at the first
Speaker 2: two levels. So when they run their games and their
Speaker 2: stunts and there's some pressures and all this kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: there's no second layer to the pass rush. It's either
Speaker 2: we're getting home or he's getting out, and there's no
Speaker 2: in between. It's boom or bust. There's no in between.
Speaker 2: Right now, it's been a lot of bust. They've been
Speaker 2: getting pressure, but not the good kind of pressure. It's different.
Speaker 2: What they're doing schematically is a little bit different than
Speaker 2: what they used to do in the past. I am
Speaker 2: screaming for them to go back to the five man
Speaker 2: rush package. We last couple of years it's been Mack
Speaker 2: Wilson in that role, kind of spying the quarterback, marrying
Speaker 2: the quarterback that way. There you can run your stunts,
Speaker 2: you can run your games, you can run your pressures,
Speaker 2: you can run all that kind of stuff. And Keon
Speaker 2: White and Joshua Ucha and all these other guys. They
Speaker 2: can pin their ears back and try to get after
Speaker 2: the quarterback because they know that Sioni Taki Taki is
Speaker 2: going to get the quarterback on the ground when he scrambles.
Speaker 2: Mac Wilson in the past is going to get the
Speaker 2: quarterback on the ground when he scrambles. Or they have
Speaker 2: a robber like Kyle Dugger is playing robber in the
Speaker 2: middle of the field, so if the quarterback takes off
Speaker 2: to try to run for the first down, they have
Speaker 2: somebody that can run and catch up to him and
Speaker 2: get him down short of the line to gain I
Speaker 2: don't really like what they're doing on third down. The
Speaker 2: way that I view what they're doing on third down
Speaker 2: is that it's very much like Flores Minnesota Vikings type stuff.
Speaker 2: I know the Baltimore stuff has been thrown out there.
Speaker 2: I don't see it that way on film. I see
Speaker 2: a lot more Flores is running a lot of fire zone,
Speaker 2: like five six man fire zones where they show cover zero,
Speaker 2: but instead of playing man to man, they play zone
Speaker 2: out of cover zero. What the Patriots are doing is
Speaker 2: pure cover two most of the time, and there's just
Speaker 2: these quarterbacks just have all day. It's not because they
Speaker 2: aren't getting pressured. It's because they're getting out of the
Speaker 2: pocket when they get pressured. So that has to be somewhere.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's still in the playbook that the five
Speaker 2: man rush package. If it's not, it's buried in some
Speaker 2: desks somewhere in this office. Like, go find it, go
Speaker 2: dust it off, put it back in the playbook. Because
Speaker 2: you have guys that can cover in man to man.
Speaker 2: You have Christian Gonzalez who can take a Brandon Aiyuk
Speaker 2: one on one. You have Jonathan Jones, you can take
Speaker 2: a Tyreek Killer, a Jalen Waddle. Go back to playing
Speaker 2: more Manton man on third down, get that fit defender
Speaker 2: in the rush, get off the field. If they don't
Speaker 2: do that on Sunday, I'm gonna be really disappointed. Like,
Speaker 2: this is not a simple this is not a hard fix.
Speaker 2: This is a simple fix, and they've struggled with this.
Speaker 2: I hope people understand the two high one high explanation.
Speaker 2: I tried my best, but that that's what I am
Speaker 2: seeing the most on third down right now is they
Speaker 2: don't have anybody accounting for the quarterback and they are
Speaker 2: playing these zones. And then also, you know when they
Speaker 2: quarterback rolls out, you also have to remember that if
Speaker 2: let's say Christian Zalez has the flat. If Christian Zalez
Speaker 2: has the flat, and now he runs up to get
Speaker 2: the quarterback, the receiver he was supposed to be covering
Speaker 2: behind them, his ride open. And that's what Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 2: did for four quarters against the Jets. He would get
Speaker 2: the defense to come to him and then he'd find
Speaker 2: the tight ends right when those zone defenders, those short
Speaker 2: zone defenders came up, he'd find the tight ends right behind.
Speaker 1: The strew just essentially becomes an option play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's not working on third down schematically.
Speaker 2: I don't think that it's because they don't have pass rushers.
Speaker 2: I don't think that it's because they aren't getting pressure
Speaker 2: on the quarterback. They are just not marrying it all
Speaker 2: together very well. Right now, Keon White's getting pressure on
Speaker 2: the quarterback. Yeah, he might be a one man reckon crew,
Speaker 2: but he's getting there, right, He's getting there. They have
Speaker 2: to find ways to keep the quarterback in the pocket.
Speaker 2: Those are my gripes on the defense. I think there's
Speaker 2: a lot to chew with that. I really feel like
Speaker 2: a lot of these things that I am talking about
Speaker 2: are coaching Like, this is not they don't have the players.
Speaker 2: This is coaching issues. These are things that the coaches
Speaker 2: can fix, and I'm disappointed that they changed the defense
Speaker 2: as much as they did. Like, you had a top
Speaker 2: ten defense last year with a lot of the same
Speaker 2: people personnel wise, why did you come into this and
Speaker 2: throw out all the Belichick stuff and start a new.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole draw of drawd Mayo and being able
Speaker 1: to keep to Marcius Covington. We talked a lot about
Speaker 1: this when we were doing the coaching stuff back in
Speaker 1: the winter. Was you want to be able to keep
Speaker 1: continuity on defense because you're building something on defense, and
Speaker 1: they haven't done that to this point. Now maybe they're
Speaker 1: calling it simpler because of the injuries, but again, a
Speaker 1: lot of these guys are here. You shouldn't need to
Speaker 1: simplify it for the backups because the backups have been
Speaker 1: in the system, most of them anyway, So.
Speaker 2: It's definitely frustrating to see.
Speaker 1: I do think there is a level of them just
Speaker 1: playing on discipline, though, and that goes back to your
Speaker 1: point of either you're coaching it or you're allowing it
Speaker 1: to happen at a certain point, there isn't a difference.
Speaker 1: But like, I know, there's supposed to be more aggressive
Speaker 1: in the rush, but I think there's a line between
Speaker 1: aggressive and reckless. And at a certain point you watch
Speaker 1: guys just flying by the quarterback coming up the field,
Speaker 1: and it's like, what exactly. I know you're trying to
Speaker 1: be aggressive, but what exactly does that accomplish.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's some stuff going on with how those
Speaker 2: edge guys are being coached. Yeah, this year compared to
Speaker 2: how they have been coached in years past. We know
Speaker 2: because we've been here. And it's also I feel like
Speaker 2: our listeners know that with Bill running past the quarterback
Speaker 2: in the pocket would find you some pine time immediately,
Speaker 2: Like if you didn't stay it was you know, level
Speaker 2: or you know, at the same level as the quarterback
Speaker 2: or better up the field, you know, closer to the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage. You were not gonna play in Bill
Speaker 2: Belichick's defense, right, whether you were didn't matter who you were,
Speaker 2: you weren't gonna play. The only guy that I saw
Speaker 2: that Bill allowed to have free reign was Judon. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the only guy I've seen in our time covering
Speaker 2: the team that truly got Carte Blanche to do whatever
Speaker 2: he wanted.
Speaker 1: It's just two guys. It's at least it's called going
Speaker 1: back ten years. It's Jude On and it's Chandler Drones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they end up trading Chandler Jones instead of signing him.
Speaker 1: So clearly that came to it with an extent, you know,
Speaker 1: But both of those guys could make it work because
Speaker 1: they were so immensely talented. Nobody on this roster's that
Speaker 1: town right.
Speaker 2: And whenever Judon would run the arc and get back
Speaker 2: past the quarterback, there was always somebody there to make
Speaker 2: them right. Right, There's always somebody there to replace him
Speaker 2: on the sea gap and get into his gap. Whether
Speaker 2: it was by design or it was just instinct or whatever,
Speaker 2: those guys were making him whole by allowing him to
Speaker 2: do that. And right now, Keon White, I'm with Keon
Speaker 2: White on this a little bit because I sort of
Speaker 2: feel like if they don't allow Keon White to do
Speaker 2: what he's doing, they're not gonna have a pass rush.
Speaker 2: So I would allow Keon White to do Keon White like,
Speaker 2: if you want to go inside, then go inside. I
Speaker 2: would put the onus on the other guys that are
Speaker 2: in the pass rush to make him right, like replace
Speaker 2: the sea gap. You know, if he's gonna run inside,
Speaker 2: and he's gonna say, but this is to Keon White,
Speaker 2: like you have to tell your guys what you're gonna do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know if you're gonna say, hey, I've been setting
Speaker 2: up this inside move. You know I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 2: run it right now. Third down. We got to get
Speaker 2: off the field. I'm going inside. Then Dietrich Wise or
Speaker 2: Daniel Qualley or Jeremiah Arms or whoever else is out
Speaker 2: there on the field with him needs to say, Okay,
Speaker 2: I got you right, Like you go inside. I got
Speaker 2: it right. And that's how they you know, they've done
Speaker 2: it in the past. That disconnect is there right now
Speaker 2: where Devon Goaja says that people are being selfish. I've
Speaker 2: heard the word freelancing, you know, on their own program.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessarily that it's purposeful, like they're
Speaker 2: trying to not play within the defense. I just don't
Speaker 2: think the communication or like the execution as a whole
Speaker 2: is going very well right now. So O Jays screaming
Speaker 2: up the field and there's nobody that is a second
Speaker 2: layer for him when he does that. So is that
Speaker 2: Ooja's fault or that guy's fault, Like, it's everybody's fault.
Speaker 2: Everybody's wrong, right, So that's something that they need to
Speaker 2: clean up. Let's talk about the quarterbacks real quick. We'll
Speaker 2: do three up, three down, We'll get to the phones.
Speaker 2: Where do you stand right now with Jacoby Brissett. You
Speaker 2: know my opinion, but where where do you stand?
Speaker 1: I mean just kind of so you know, I was
Speaker 1: a little more defensive of him the last few weeks
Speaker 1: in terms of people saying he's holding the ball, like, uh,
Speaker 1: it's not holding as long as you think the line
Speaker 1: hasn't been great whatever, don't get me wrong, Like the
Speaker 1: line was bad in this game too, But I thought
Speaker 1: this was his worst game of the year. I think
Speaker 1: he's starting to get sped up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, his internal clocks off. The thing I notice is
Speaker 1: it almost seems like he's bracing for contact when contact's
Speaker 1: not there, right, he's anticipating hits. It's less that he's
Speaker 1: seeing ghosts in the coverage. I almost feel like he's
Speaker 1: seeing ghosts in the pass rush. Yeah, where he just
Speaker 1: like assumes he's about to get hit if he's had
Speaker 1: the ball for like two secs. I think that's leading
Speaker 1: to some of his accuracy issues because he's throwing as
Speaker 1: if he's throwing through contact when there's no contact. And
Speaker 1: I mean, you know where I've been on jacobd Verssett.
Speaker 1: I think, at the end of the day, nitpicking Jacoby
Speaker 1: Versset's performance, we.
Speaker 2: Can do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know how relevant it is, just because he's
Speaker 1: thirty one years old. We know who he is at
Speaker 1: this point. His growth, his development really isn't of consequence
Speaker 1: to this team right now. It's all about Drake may
Speaker 1: having said I thought it was his worst game of
Speaker 1: the year, and I think you are starting to see.
Speaker 1: I know Alex van Pelt said today that he doesn't
Speaker 1: think that Brissett's field vision or timing is thrown off
Speaker 1: because the line I think it is. Van Pelt's not
Speaker 1: gonna say that he's not gonna throw the guy or
Speaker 1: the line under the bus. But the fact that a
Speaker 1: seasoned veteran like Jacoby Brissett has been sped up and
Speaker 1: is seeing ghosts in just four games, especially four games,
Speaker 1: are not throwing the ball a toime to.
Speaker 2: Me is all the more reason.
Speaker 1: I know people are gonna hate it, but it's all
Speaker 1: the more reason you'd be patient with Drake May because
Speaker 1: that is the one advantage Jacoby Brissett definitively has over
Speaker 1: Drake May. He knows how to handle this. He's been
Speaker 1: in the spot before, he's been on bad teams, he's
Speaker 1: been on losing teams.
Speaker 2: He's been on teams where.
Speaker 1: He gets hit a lot, and he's in the NFL.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I was about to say no Carolina, Okay,
Speaker 1: but we're talking about you know, two hundred and forty A.
Speaker 1: You see edge rushers, not Nick Bosa or Bradley Chubb
Speaker 1: coming off the edge for Miami. Right So that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean Drake can't handle it. I just don't want to
Speaker 1: risk finding out whether he can or can't right now
Speaker 1: because Jacoby, again, Jacobra sets the guy like, this guy
Speaker 1: can handle himself when it's all breaking apart around him. Now,
Speaker 1: there's a talent level to which he you know, capped
Speaker 1: to which with he can do that. But if a
Speaker 1: guy like Jacobra sets sped up, that's not a good
Speaker 1: sign because the one thing he is going for him
Speaker 1: is that's not usually the kind of guy that gets
Speaker 1: sped up.
Speaker 2: So the one, the one play where I started to
Speaker 2: get concerned about his mental wear and tear being sped up.
Speaker 2: It's third down and he just ran straight into the pocket. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like straight up.
Speaker 1: Into the posts, just like early in the second half.
Speaker 1: I want to say that that sounds right, I think,
Speaker 1: I think I know a player talking about.
Speaker 2: So it's a it's a mesh concept. So there's the
Speaker 2: crossing routs over the middle of the field, and then
Speaker 2: usually with that they pair like a sit right and
Speaker 2: right over the ball that Hunter Henry runs Hunter it's
Speaker 2: manton man coverage. The forty nine ers don't cover Hunter Henry,
Speaker 2: so they blow. They blow the assignment and they don't.
Speaker 2: No one's covering Hunter Henry in the middle of the field,
Speaker 2: And all Jacobe Brissett's got to do is let the
Speaker 2: crossers clear, just let the picture clear, and just stand
Speaker 2: in the middle of the pocket and deliver a ball
Speaker 2: to Hunter Henry, who there's a post safety in the
Speaker 2: up top, so like maybe he makes the tackle, but
Speaker 2: if he doesn't make the tackle, then he's running for
Speaker 2: a while, right, Yeah, So all he's got to do
Speaker 2: is just let the trash clear from in front of
Speaker 2: him and just let the seize part and then throw
Speaker 2: the ball right through the middle of the field to
Speaker 2: Hunter Henry and he runs almost full speed right through
Speaker 2: the middle of the line and right into a sack,
Speaker 2: like literally right into pressure. And at that point I
Speaker 2: was like, you know, like that, that looks like a quarterback,
Speaker 2: you know, Nick Bosa. He was coming around the edge
Speaker 2: a little bit, but like on and when it was okay,
Speaker 2: like it wasn't terrible.
Speaker 1: But Brissette's expecting He's not expecting to have that one right.
Speaker 2: Like I could see how Brissette would sense that Nick
Speaker 2: Bosa was starting to turn the corner. But it was
Speaker 2: one of those plays where two steps up in the
Speaker 2: pocket would have sufficed, and instead he took five steps
Speaker 2: up in the pocket. And those types of plays usually
Speaker 2: happen when a quarterback is sped up or seeing ghosts
Speaker 2: or feeling pressure that isn't there now. On the same breath,
Speaker 2: I say all that, and because you know me, I
Speaker 2: have to call for Drake May at some point of
Speaker 2: the show, I say that, and I see mistakes like
Speaker 2: that or just habits like that. Let's call him habits
Speaker 2: habits like that with Jacoby Brissett. I see him missing reads,
Speaker 2: I see him missing throws, and I just think to myself,
Speaker 2: a lot of these things are the flaws that I'm
Speaker 2: told Drake May has, like pocket you know, presence and
Speaker 2: mobility in the pocket and not you know, drifting into
Speaker 2: pressure and all that kind of stuff. I would just
Speaker 2: if perset's gonna make all these mistakes. And then we
Speaker 2: talked about this with the Jets week about the mental
Speaker 2: mistakes pre snap. If he's not going to dominate from
Speaker 2: like the details perspective, then I'm running out of reasons
Speaker 2: other than your thing of like, don't subject Drake May
Speaker 2: to this kind of pressure. Yeah, I'm running out of
Speaker 2: reasons to say that he is the better choice for
Speaker 2: them at quarterback right now because he's not seeing the field.
Speaker 1: He's not the better choice. He's not like if you're
Speaker 1: actually trying to go out and go one to oh
Speaker 1: on the Sunday, he's not the better choice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's not.
Speaker 1: And I don't think anybody's disputed that. But if you
Speaker 1: want to make sure that Drake May gets off to
Speaker 1: the start you want him to get off to, yeah,
Speaker 1: then it's got to be Jacoby Ver said at this
Speaker 1: point because Drake May is not going to have a
Speaker 1: successful start with the way this line works. I know
Speaker 1: people are so sick of hearing that, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: keep saying it because it's true. This is not your
Speaker 1: average Let's go to the pressure numbers here.
Speaker 2: Well, while you're looking those up, I'll just yea, in
Speaker 2: my opinion, the areas where I think that Drake May
Speaker 2: makes them better, he makes them a lot more viable
Speaker 2: on third down to me, because he can improvise and
Speaker 2: he can run. So we saw this even against the Jets,
Speaker 2: where he you know, he picks up that fourth down
Speaker 2: with his legs. Yep. Jacoba Brissette doesn't bring that element
Speaker 2: to the table. So if there's nobody open in the
Speaker 2: initial progression and he's looking around and there's nobody open,
Speaker 2: Jacoba Brissette is sitting duck back there, there's nothing he
Speaker 2: can do. Drake May can get out of the pocket,
Speaker 2: he can run, he can pick up the first down
Speaker 2: with his legs. He can improvise on the move and
Speaker 2: run and make throws on the move.
Speaker 1: But I don't want him doing that consistently because then
Speaker 1: that becomes a habit and he never learns Okay, so
Speaker 1: right way to play quarterbacks. So, by the way, yeah,
Speaker 1: so according to Next Gen stats, yes, Jacoby Brissett has
Speaker 1: been pressured on forty nine point six percent of his dropbacks.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I have a rebuttal to this, but keep going.
Speaker 1: Not only set the highest number in the league, it
Speaker 1: is the highest number in the next gen era. No
Speaker 1: quarterback has been pressured that much, at least since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: Your rebuttal is going to be pressures are caused by
Speaker 1: Jacoby were set holding the ball, according to PFF. Now
Speaker 1: PFF charts pressures a little differently, so there is maybe
Speaker 1: something lost in translation.
Speaker 2: Now you're crossing swords.
Speaker 1: But Jacoby Weresset among all qualified quarterbacks the fourth fewest
Speaker 1: percentage of pressures accounted for seven point five percent. The
Speaker 1: only guys who are are have a lower percentage of
Speaker 1: pressures on their own responsibility or Geno Smith, Matthew Stafford
Speaker 1: and Kirk Cousins.
Speaker 2: So this last game against the forty nine ers was
Speaker 2: the first time where I thought that he was causing
Speaker 2: his own pressure.
Speaker 1: And I'm with you on that, but I think that
Speaker 1: some of that, Yeah, I thought he was much worse
Speaker 1: in that regard, I think I can find that number.
Speaker 2: So he based off of my charting because I actually
Speaker 2: charted this myself. I had three sacks on Jacoby. Okay,
Speaker 2: this game, so he sacked six times. I had three
Speaker 2: of them on Jacoby. I had two other pressures on Jacoby,
Speaker 2: so we had five of like the sixteen pressure dropbacks
Speaker 2: were on Brazil.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you on that. But I think the
Speaker 1: reason that so, why wasn't it like that until now?
Speaker 1: The overall heat he faced through the first three weeks
Speaker 1: has led to him just completely losing sense of the
Speaker 1: pocket and it's gone from bad to worse.
Speaker 2: This is a snowball effect.
Speaker 1: So I think if you put Drake May in a
Speaker 1: guy who's less experienced, you're probably gonna say, see the
Speaker 1: same thing happen, and it'll probably happen quicker.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I hear you?
Speaker 1: Is it so?
Speaker 2: Sorry?
Speaker 1: Again? The point I wanted to make though when I
Speaker 1: brought that up, yeah again, forty nine point six percent,
Speaker 1: fifty percent. This is not and I know I said
Speaker 1: this last week, but I feel like I have to
Speaker 1: keep repeating myself. This is not always going to have
Speaker 1: to learn how to face pressure in the NFL someday.
Speaker 1: This is not your basic NFL pressure that he's facing.
Speaker 1: This is a historic, historic rate. We are in David
Speaker 1: Carr Josh Rosen territory here. This is not normal. This
Speaker 1: is not something he should have to learn how to handle,
Speaker 1: because this should not be the situation for him beyond
Speaker 1: this year.
Speaker 2: If it is.
Speaker 1: The problem is with the front office more than anything else,
Speaker 1: because you simply need better players. This doesn't need to
Speaker 1: be happening. Yes, offensive line plays bad around the league
Speaker 1: of every everybody's dealing with the same talent pool. Everybody's
Speaker 1: dealing with the same talent pool, and the Patriots are
Speaker 1: still making less of it than everybody else.
Speaker 2: So this is not deal with pressure. This is another level. Okay,
Speaker 2: I hear you. But because I can't get off this
Speaker 2: because it drives me nuts to watch back quarterback play.
Speaker 2: It drives me nuts. You know that, and I know
Speaker 2: it does, and I can't stand it any longer because
Speaker 2: I'll give you a couple of tangible examples, and I
Speaker 2: know we don't have the film, so I'm like explaining things.
Speaker 2: But there's a third down play where he has Kishan
Speaker 2: Boody wide open on an in cut it's that they
Speaker 2: run it all the time. I'm it's like a little
Speaker 2: spot underneath and then the incut bends around the spot
Speaker 2: and you just kind of throw it off of you know,
Speaker 2: the coverage, right, you read out the coverage and you
Speaker 2: throw it and he's he's staring right at it, like
Speaker 2: you can see his headgear and it's he's he's staring
Speaker 2: right at it, and he just holds the ball. He
Speaker 2: just doesn't pull the trigger. And that happened. You know,
Speaker 2: I mentioned the Hunter Henry play. I meant, you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of the quick game concepts.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 2: I actually asked him about it in the locker room
Speaker 2: and he gave me an hod Its answer. But you know,
Speaker 2: it's each play is individualized. Like sometimes they're he's saying,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes they're coverage base, Like if it's one high,
Speaker 2: I'm going to read left. If it's too high, I'm
Speaker 2: going to read right. Sometimes it's just progression reads right.
Speaker 2: But point being, it's every single play is different of
Speaker 2: how where he's supposed to open and where his eyes are.
Speaker 2: It feels to me like his eyes are not always
Speaker 2: in the right places, especially in this last game against
Speaker 2: the forty nine ers, so well, some of that is
Speaker 2: and we've talked about this.
Speaker 1: I wonder how much of that's on Van Pelt and
Speaker 1: what is How are they setting the order of the
Speaker 1: progressions and could that be changed?
Speaker 2: Because I think it should be changed. I both agree
Speaker 2: on that.
Speaker 1: But my bigger picture point is I don't doubt Drake
Speaker 1: May can make that throw. Now when he's getting hit
Speaker 1: every other drop back and he's taking some of these
Speaker 1: big shots to Kobe Is and his bell gets run
Speaker 1: and his ribs start hurting, and now he you know,
Speaker 1: three seconds becomes two and a half in his head
Speaker 1: and things like that. Is he still going to make
Speaker 1: those those throws?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 1: I get you don't like watching subpar quarterback play. If
Speaker 1: you put Drake May in for a game or two,
Speaker 1: it may elevate. But if he's still facing this level
Speaker 1: of pressure and he's still taking these kind of hits,
Speaker 1: is it Are you consistent that he can keep that
Speaker 1: level or is he going to fall into some of
Speaker 1: the same stuff Jacobe Is. I just think that's not
Speaker 1: worth the risk. If your only reason that you want
Speaker 1: Drake May to play right now is shiny toy, right,
Speaker 1: I am a Patriots fan. I want to watch this guy,
Speaker 1: because I've heard him talked about. If that is your
Speaker 1: only reason, it's frankly not a good enough reason, because
Speaker 1: if it's not handled correctly, he's he's going to turn
Speaker 1: into exactly what you.
Speaker 2: Don't want to see.
Speaker 1: And congratulations, I hope you had fun with your two
Speaker 1: or three games before.
Speaker 2: He got sped up.
Speaker 1: That's not and I know I sound alarmist, and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying it has to be perfect. I'm also not
Speaker 1: one of these people as saying, wait three years and
Speaker 1: well a guy draft a loft tackle this year, then
Speaker 1: a right tackle next year, then a wide receiver, then
Speaker 1: a center, and maybe in twenty twenty eight. No, I'm
Speaker 1: just saying get to the base level. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: get to below average, below average, put him in. They
Speaker 1: are so far from below average right now. When it
Speaker 1: comes to protecting the quarterback that I think it's an
Speaker 1: I think it's a non starter. I think it has
Speaker 1: to be a non starter because yes, you may get
Speaker 1: that bumping quarterback play for one or two games US
Speaker 1: where girodmeo use. It's not sustainable, it's not good. Remember
Speaker 1: when we walked away from that first game and I
Speaker 1: came in here and I said the line play was
Speaker 1: really bad and it was still better than we thought,
Speaker 1: and he was like, wow, they played poorly, but he won.
Speaker 2: That's part of what wasn't sustainable.
Speaker 1: You can't let your quarterback get hit like that week
Speaker 1: after week after week, no matter who he is. Even
Speaker 1: Brady would get affected by this stuff from time to time.
Speaker 1: Now he could bounce back. He was also in the
Speaker 1: league for twenty years and never faced anything like this,
Speaker 1: so he had a little more tools at his disposal
Speaker 1: and never had to dig himself quite out of this
Speaker 1: kind of hole. But I just think that it's it's
Speaker 1: not again, you're so far beyond what he's gonna have
Speaker 1: to deal with. Even if you want the shiny new toy,
Speaker 1: shine's gonna wear off real quick. I think if you
Speaker 1: put him in this situation.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I have one more rebuttal for you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because you know that we're we're not gonna move from
Speaker 2: our points on this. But I still think it's where talking.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess sorry, let me just say one more thing.
Speaker 1: These people are probably hearing this saying, well, he shouldn't
Speaker 1: play this season. I still think there's so I think
Speaker 1: there's value in playing this season. I think ideally he
Speaker 1: should for three reasons.
Speaker 2: One his development. Two.
Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of two way to be the
Speaker 1: developmental players around him, guys like Jalen Polk, guys like
Speaker 1: Pop Douglas.
Speaker 2: And also for the front office.
Speaker 1: You get to see what he looks like in the
Speaker 1: context of your off offense and you, I mean, you
Speaker 1: get an idea of who he is in college. Now
Speaker 1: you get a better idea, and it's all right, maybe
Speaker 1: we need to focus more on this than we thought her.
Speaker 1: Maybe we don't don't need this kind of player as
Speaker 1: much as we thought, or things like that. In three,
Speaker 1: you'll put him out there to get some plays on
Speaker 1: tapes as a sailing point to free agents. Look at
Speaker 1: what this kid can do. We're trying to build around him.
Speaker 1: But if he's facing this much pressure, can you actually
Speaker 1: accomplish any of those things even if he is on
Speaker 1: the field.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess this is just where we and I
Speaker 2: agree with all the point.
Speaker 1: If you just get to a point where he can
Speaker 1: where you can accomplish some of those things, even if
Speaker 1: it's not pretty, then I'm okay putting him in. If
Speaker 1: you can allow if you can get to a point
Speaker 1: where you can start building chemistry with Jalen Polk, where
Speaker 1: he can start, you know, really seeing an NFL defense.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean see a second of it and
Speaker 1: then have to run for his life. I actually mean
Speaker 1: get three seconds in the pocket to see it and
Speaker 1: digest it.
Speaker 2: Yea.
Speaker 1: If you if you can get to the point where
Speaker 1: he and throw the ball down the field and put
Speaker 1: some things on tape that wide receivers might like to see,
Speaker 1: that's when you put him in the game. I'm just
Speaker 1: starting to wonder if they're gonna get to that point
Speaker 1: this year.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I agree with a lot of things that
Speaker 2: you said, and you know that I am definitely hard.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say something I don't want to say.
Speaker 2: I'm definitely in the school thought that the development of
Speaker 2: the pieces around him isn't just as important. I said
Speaker 2: this all last week, right the development of the pieces
Speaker 2: around him is just as important and right now. And
Speaker 2: I want to get to that in a second. But
Speaker 2: the point of the pressure to me and I understand.
Speaker 2: I agree that it's not going to be good, but.
Speaker 1: I agree with that it's never gonna be good this year.
Speaker 2: I really strongly believe in pressure being as much of
Speaker 2: a quarterback status in an offensive line stat in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways. And I really strongly believe that he
Speaker 2: won't be pressured as much as Jacob Eber said because
Speaker 2: of what he's going to bring to the table. Does
Speaker 2: that mean that he's gonna be pressured at a at
Speaker 2: a league average rate at a below app I don't
Speaker 2: know the exact number. Yeah, I just don't think it's
Speaker 2: going to be forty nine percent. I think it's gonna
Speaker 2: probably be closer to forty percent. How confident are you
Speaker 2: that it's gonna drop enough? Because this is where I
Speaker 2: go back to that other take.
Speaker 1: You can't put him out there thinking it's gonna be better,
Speaker 1: realize it's not better, and then bench them.
Speaker 2: You can't do that, so I hear you. I I
Speaker 2: don't know if you can't do that. Though you can't. No,
Speaker 2: you can't. We just let me let me finish. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you can't do that. If you that's
Speaker 2: the plan, like if you telled him, and this is
Speaker 2: I'll give you a perfect example. Because of Sunday, I
Speaker 2: personally feel like it's ludicrous. He is not playing this
Speaker 2: game on Sunday. Okay, it's a home game against Tyler
Speaker 2: Huntley and a Miami Dolphins team that is quite literally
Speaker 2: like revolting against their head coach at this point and
Speaker 2: against their team. They No. Two was not coming back
Speaker 2: anytime soon. They had playoff and maybe even contender aspirations
Speaker 2: this season that they're all watching go by the wayside
Speaker 2: because their quarterback got another concussion. Tyreek Hill, who I
Speaker 2: know is a hothead to begin with, but did you
Speaker 2: see what he was doing on Monday night on the sideline. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's going up and down the.
Speaker 1: Sideline screaming Mike McDonnel at Mike McDaniel, be a better coach.
Speaker 2: And all this stuff is happening in Miami right now.
Speaker 2: If you went to Drake May and I know this
Speaker 2: is some people are gonna hear this and say, oh,
Speaker 2: it's that's really disrespectful of the Dolphins. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: really give a crap. If you go to Drake May
Speaker 2: and you say, this is a nice game for you
Speaker 2: to play in, So we're gonna play you. We're gonna
Speaker 2: start you on Sunday. If it's your thing, and it's
Speaker 2: a disaster with the protection and everything like that, we
Speaker 2: might go back to Jacoby after this, but we still
Speaker 2: want to see what it looks like with you in there.
Speaker 1: You have If you're gonna do that, you gotta come
Speaker 1: with stones, because one, you risk ticking off Drake may
Speaker 1: and does he look at it and say no once
Speaker 1: I'm the starter on the starter, but you risk off off,
Speaker 1: you risk ticking off Jacoby. Maybe Jacoby says, because he
Speaker 1: he gave that quote the other day that he thinks
Speaker 1: it's disrespectful when people say he's just here to take hits.
Speaker 1: That is literally the definition of Jaco telling Jacoby you
Speaker 1: are here to be a crash test dummy. Does he
Speaker 1: gonna you know what, fine, if you don't want me here,
Speaker 1: trade me if you don't want to go sit down
Speaker 1: with Joe Milton him where I would not be surprised
Speaker 1: if you were upset by something like that. And then
Speaker 1: you have us. You are you are really unleashing the dogs.
Speaker 1: You are opening a Pandora's box with the media. Why
Speaker 1: do you bench Drake? Did you not think he was good?
Speaker 2: Do you regret the pick? I don't think you start
Speaker 2: answering that. I don't think it's a great idea either.
Speaker 2: I'm just sicking idea. I don't think it's a terrible
Speaker 2: it's a terrible idea.
Speaker 1: I disagree you, But I would you bet your job
Speaker 1: on that working, because that's what you're doing.
Speaker 2: This spot is too good to pass up. Like they're
Speaker 2: literally playing a team that might actually be work. You're
Speaker 2: favored for the first time.
Speaker 1: So what if you win ten to six and Drake
Speaker 1: May gets his ass kicked? You have to evaluate that
Speaker 1: and you have to be you're gonna win with Drake May.
Speaker 1: I don't realize the kids in danger and go back
Speaker 1: to Jacoba said you have to consider that option.
Speaker 2: We're gonna you do that.
Speaker 1: We're gonna disagree that wild take. That is a care
Speaker 1: wild take. You could you're asking for Could it work
Speaker 1: so here?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: But I think you're asking for a lot of trouble.
Speaker 2: Here's my problem, Max, and I don't want to be
Speaker 2: alarmist or like hyper hyper what's the word. I don't
Speaker 2: want to speak, Yeah, hyperbolic? Thank you? I don't, but
Speaker 2: I was in that locker room after the game on Sunday.
Speaker 2: The defense is mad at the defense, the offense is
Speaker 2: mad at the offense. You have young receivers who are
Speaker 2: literally throwing tantrums on film and Pop Douglas and Jalen Polk,
Speaker 2: And good on Pop Douglas for owning that this week
Speaker 2: and walk it, you know, kind of saying that he's
Speaker 2: got to be better and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: But I said this before and I'll say it again.
Speaker 2: You're at the point now, with fifty two other guys
Speaker 2: in that locker room that I'll watch these two quarterbacks
Speaker 2: practice every single day that all know that they drafted
Speaker 2: Drake may third overall. And at what point in time
Speaker 2: does some of these guys say to themselves, why am
Speaker 2: I going out there and getting my butt kicked every
Speaker 2: single Sunday? And Drake can't? Like, why am I going
Speaker 2: out there with a quarterback who can't get me the
Speaker 2: football when we have the Ferrari back in the garage
Speaker 2: that can get me the football. But I'm supposed to,
Speaker 2: I'm Jalen Polk. I'm supposed to go run every single
Speaker 2: route as hard as I can, and I'm supposed to,
Speaker 2: you know, put lay it all out on there for
Speaker 2: the team. What team? Remember the Titans. I thought of
Speaker 2: this the other day, right, like what team? What team?
Speaker 1: Then you have to make the switch, That's what I'm
Speaker 1: worried about more than and I think, but then you
Speaker 1: have to make the switch that you don't get to see.
Speaker 2: Okay, don't get bogged down by that. In my opinion
Speaker 2: about Sunday, I just think it's crazy that he's not
Speaker 2: playing on Sunday. That's it. I'm just saying to you
Speaker 2: that right now you have players who are visibly inaudibly
Speaker 2: frustrated with what's going on with this team and what's
Speaker 2: going on with this offense and this lack of passing offense.
Speaker 2: And you can say that, who's Jalen Polk and who's
Speaker 2: to Mario Douglass to act this way? But the film's
Speaker 2: the film. When guys are getting open on the film,
Speaker 2: they're not getting the football, they're going to start to
Speaker 2: get annoyed, point blank like that's just the facts. And
Speaker 2: right now they're sitting the best quarterback that they have
Speaker 2: on the roster, and I worry that they're going to
Speaker 2: start to really resent the coaching staff in the front
Speaker 2: office for making this decision. And some guys like I
Speaker 2: think Hunter Henry is a real stand up veteran guy,
Speaker 2: David Andrews, even though he's not going to be playing
Speaker 2: the same thing. Those guys will understand the bigger picture
Speaker 2: and they'll be able to put their own feelings to
Speaker 2: the side. Some of these younger players, some of these
Speaker 2: other veterans, I can't. I don't know if I can
Speaker 2: say the same. For it is Devon Godshaw gonna gonna
Speaker 2: keep sounding off on radio about his teammates being selfish
Speaker 2: and all this kind of stuff. If they keep losing
Speaker 2: like this and they'd.
Speaker 1: Rather Godshaw sound off, then guys be selfish. They are,
Speaker 1: but not so we said this a lot like if
Speaker 1: the locker room, the locker room's gonna dictate in large
Speaker 1: part when you make the change. We talked about that
Speaker 1: and it happened with macken Zappi, and that's true. Is
Speaker 1: changing the quarterback going to do that? If I mean
Speaker 1: we're talking about what maybe two or three plays a
Speaker 1: game that it's would you have Jacobe down for his
Speaker 1: pressures six three sacks, five pressures, so I'm talking about
Speaker 1: five plays a game. Are they frustrated with the quarterback
Speaker 1: situation or are they frustrated like changing the quarterback doesn't
Speaker 1: do anything for the defense.
Speaker 2: I mean, as it does because they're gonna score more points.
Speaker 1: But if guys are still freelancing. Guys are still I
Speaker 1: don't think you're gonna see guys that well Drake Mayson
Speaker 1: out there, so I can't freelan.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't think but I think that the defense.
Speaker 2: For three years, the defense has been the only thing that.
Speaker 1: Are they going to be able to score that many
Speaker 1: more points to be that much more effective with the line.
Speaker 1: I just think the line sets too much of a cap.
Speaker 1: And again I'm not saying don't put Drake May in,
Speaker 1: but Drake May is not a be all, end all
Speaker 1: fixed for everything that ails them.
Speaker 2: It's not. But I think that Drake May makes it
Speaker 2: a lot better. I don't know about a lot a
Speaker 2: lot better. And if I'm gonna sit there on Sunday
Speaker 2: and watch Jacob said throw pick sixes, anyways, i'd rather
Speaker 2: watch Drake May throw pick sixes. And I'm not talking
Speaker 2: about to watch it, but I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: But but I almost wouldn't because.
Speaker 2: But all you all you people that want to sit
Speaker 2: him forever. Yeah, all all you people think that, like
Speaker 2: it's just that him sitting is gonna mean when he
Speaker 2: comes in eventually that he's going to be this perfect
Speaker 2: quarterback at that point, like he's still gonna have to
Speaker 2: learn on the fly. Then did Jordan Love just come
Speaker 2: in more support around you think as he learned? You think?
Speaker 1: I think so did George. Well, we talked about this
Speaker 1: when we were talking about the packaway in the offseason.
Speaker 2: Jordan Love didn't take off until the second half of
Speaker 2: last year. His first half of last year, he had.
Speaker 1: Issues, but he had more support around him. If the
Speaker 1: rest of the roster wasn't as good, do those issues
Speaker 1: maybe get exacerbated and pile up and turn into bad
Speaker 1: habits and turn into things you can't Okay.
Speaker 2: So when can we We'll sit him till twenty twenty?
Speaker 2: All right? How about this? All right? We can make
Speaker 2: sure that a guy perfect situation before we put him
Speaker 2: in there.
Speaker 1: Can we have a guy in an offense that is
Speaker 1: predicated and involves the center doing a lot of the
Speaker 1: pre snap work. Can we have a guy who is
Speaker 1: not starting his first ever game in the NFL at
Speaker 1: center that Drake May makes his first start. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's an unfair ass Can we have a guy
Speaker 1: at left tackle who was with the team in camp? Okay,
Speaker 1: if you if you do feel like very baseline ass Okay,
Speaker 1: but if you do these things, yeah, and you continue
Speaker 1: to play like this and they're one in six, they're
Speaker 1: one and seven, they're one in eight, and they keep
Speaker 1: on losing, not just losing, but getting blown out of
Speaker 1: these games, not competitive football games. I just don't know
Speaker 1: how you keep going back into that form and having
Speaker 1: all these guys shouldn't look at you and say to
Speaker 1: the young receivers, you say to the defense, you say
Speaker 1: to even the veteran guys like even Hunter Henry and
Speaker 1: Austin Hooper and Ramandre Stevenson and Antonio Gibson who signed
Speaker 1: a contract here to come here as a free agent.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna play the best guy. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: We're gonna keep losing. We're gonna keep getting our butts kicked.
Speaker 1: We're gonna keep losing by multiple touchdowns. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: be competitive, and we're gonna keep doing this because we can't.
Speaker 1: We have to protect Drake. Look, you're the one of
Speaker 1: the offseason that was lauding the pack away and and
Speaker 1: you know patience, And when.
Speaker 2: Did I lad that I've been wanting to Drake mad
Speaker 2: to start since I was.
Speaker 1: Before they had Drake may I was the one saying,
Speaker 1: can they at least sign a couple guys in frequency
Speaker 1: so they have a base level. Look, I'm coming back
Speaker 1: to you on this. I said last week. When you
Speaker 1: have an offensive line of Venerian Lowe City so David Andrews,
Speaker 1: Mike and Wnhu, Kaden Wallace, that's when.
Speaker 2: Because that's your best five.
Speaker 1: Two of those guys are out long term. Now at
Speaker 1: this point, since I said that, I'm willing to go
Speaker 1: to Vederian Lowe, Michael Jordan, Nick Leverett.
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't even know.
Speaker 1: Just get can we start the same line for two
Speaker 1: weeks in a row before Drake May takes over.
Speaker 2: That's I imagine then to go out there in the
Speaker 2: first game that you're covered at home, or that you're
Speaker 2: favored at home against a third string quarterback, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna we're not gonna take this opportunity to play Tyler Huntley.
Speaker 2: Drake May is not facing Tyler. Understand the point. The
Speaker 2: point is is that they should be able to win
Speaker 2: this football game, right.
Speaker 1: But I think the opponent is irrelevant and I would
Speaker 1: rather Drake May. I think it's better for them that
Speaker 1: Drake May looks good in a loss than plays Portland
Speaker 1: get the crap beat out of him and a win.
Speaker 2: I just we're never gonna agree on this, So I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna move on because I just, I, for the
Speaker 2: life of me, I understand that you're not one of
Speaker 2: these people that wants to sit him forever. I get that.
Speaker 1: I literally keep lowering the standards, but it's just has
Speaker 1: to be some standard, No.
Speaker 2: I hear you. I just I really start to get
Speaker 2: I was already concerned about it last week. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: just for the I'm not doing a victory lap. I
Speaker 2: already saw some of the stuff that what Jacob were
Speaker 2: said on film against the Jets, and I came in
Speaker 2: here and I said against the Jets that he's stunk.
Speaker 2: And then last week and now all of a sudden
Speaker 2: he plays bad against the forty nine ers, and I'll
Speaker 2: thank you. Welcome to the party. He's been here for
Speaker 2: three weeks.
Speaker 1: And I don't disagree with you. I just and I've
Speaker 1: said this since April. Jacoby Brissette's level of play should
Speaker 1: be independent from Drake May's.
Speaker 2: T Tell that to Jalen Pulkin Pop Douglas.
Speaker 1: If you're a good coach, you figure out a way
Speaker 1: to sell it this old player's coach, right, you gotta find.
Speaker 2: Way what happens. In my opinion, Uh, it's very easy
Speaker 2: for Elliott Wolf to look at it this way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he's probably right like you guys are probably right
Speaker 2: to be patient, and Elliot Wolf is probably looking at
Speaker 2: it this way. It's very different on the head coach
Speaker 2: level down because those are the guys that are in
Speaker 2: the trenches day in and day out of the season
Speaker 2: and they have to tell these guys, hey, we're gonna
Speaker 2: get on a fight to London in a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks to play the Jaguars. We're one in seven. We
Speaker 2: have our best, you know, not our best quarterback is
Speaker 2: going to play in this game where we might lose
Speaker 2: to a stinky Jaguars team, and then we're gonna come back.
Speaker 1: This is why I if I was Elliot Wolf, I
Speaker 1: would have done more in the offseason.
Speaker 2: Two. It's very easy to prepare for this from the
Speaker 2: perch in the GM chair to look down and say packerway,
Speaker 2: be patient. You know he's not ready, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 2: When the team and the fifty three guys on the
Speaker 2: in the locker room are getting there. But but again.
Speaker 1: This is where I go back to. I would have
Speaker 1: signed an actual left tackle. I would have added more
Speaker 1: depth on the offense. We can't fair enough, but you
Speaker 1: know what we need. I guess my point is, sorry,
Speaker 1: this is the bed you made, you lay in it.
Speaker 1: Your plan was to be patient, and this was the
Speaker 1: offense you brought to a plan to be patient, you
Speaker 1: don't get to you don't get to change course. Now
Speaker 1: stick to your plan.
Speaker 2: Do you know what we need?
Speaker 3: Light?
Speaker 2: We need a bud Light because it's easy to drink,
Speaker 2: it's easy to enjoy. Bud Light, the official beer sponsor
Speaker 2: of the New England Patriots. Let's take some of these
Speaker 2: phone calls and then we'll get back to three up,
Speaker 2: three down, because we just went on for longer than plans.
Speaker 1: So your quote got picked up on Twitter. By the way,
Speaker 1: good about the locker room?
Speaker 2: Oh not great? Okay, I'll deal with you know, I'll
Speaker 2: deal with that later. Dylan is in Florida. What's up, Dylan? Dylan? Sorry,
Speaker 2: I left John hold for a while. Call back in,
Speaker 2: Dylan and we'll get you on. I'm assuming Patty is
Speaker 2: still here. What's up, Patty? I know Patty's still here.
Speaker 2: Do we speak to Patty. Patty, oh morel that one hurts.
Speaker 2: That one hurts, all right, He'll probably call back in
Speaker 2: Let's try one last time, Sean and Vancouver. What's up, Sean.
Speaker 1: Otob you?
Speaker 3: Oh goodness, thank you.
Speaker 6: Hey, Evan.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry I missed you in San Francisco. Buto, what
Speaker 3: a beautiful weekend despite the loss. Next time, maybe in Miami.
Speaker 3: I'll be down for that game at the end next month,
Speaker 3: so I hope to see you then go onto a
Speaker 3: business in hand. It's been four months. This is the
Speaker 3: game that I circled for Drake made to start. So Evan,
Speaker 3: I'm right with you, very disappointed that's not going to happen.
Speaker 3: I was predicting a win. I was just like the
Speaker 3: most confident I've been in a long time that the
Speaker 3: Patriots will win a game. Now, I like someone could
Speaker 3: someone ask the coach, like in a press conference, is
Speaker 3: Drake may not ready? Is that because that's the only
Speaker 3: reason I can see him not playing that they think
Speaker 3: he's not ready and I'm not there.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but otherwise.
Speaker 3: He really should be in there for defense. You know,
Speaker 3: they actually had discipline in that Cincinnati game. In the
Speaker 3: first game they had the discipline, and I know they're
Speaker 3: missing Bentley and that's a big part of it. And
Speaker 3: Dougar was gone, so I don't know who's going to
Speaker 3: have the green dot. But they can have the discipline again.
Speaker 3: They can do it, they can fix it. It's the
Speaker 3: Patriots way, you know, do your job. I don't think
Speaker 3: it's selfish to say that you're trying to do someone
Speaker 3: else's job. Like like if you look at a specific
Speaker 3: play where Peppers leaves Kittleton because he sees d book
Speaker 3: is uncovered and he's trying to fix that. It's not
Speaker 3: that he's like, oh, I want to take the glory.
Speaker 3: He's like, oh shit, looks what's happening.
Speaker 2: Sorry, but Evan does it all the time.
Speaker 6: It happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you just got to just focus on do
Speaker 3: your job and just trust that the other players would
Speaker 3: do their job. And that's the Patriot's way, and that's
Speaker 3: what they have to do moving forward. All right, I'll
Speaker 3: let you guys talk about that.
Speaker 2: Thanks. Thanks Sean. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Like
Speaker 2: this defense has has lost the do your job mentality.
Speaker 2: Now part of me wants to come to the defense
Speaker 2: of some of the guys that are playing out on
Speaker 2: the edge from some of the conversations I've had this
Speaker 2: week with them, because I do think there is an
Speaker 2: element that they're being coached a little bit differently, Like
Speaker 2: I think they're being asked to do things a little
Speaker 2: bit differently than they would in the past now.
Speaker 1: Clearly because they've been doing this and they're still on
Speaker 1: the field. So the coaches don't have a problem no.
Speaker 2: Other no coaches ever telling the somebody to rush and
Speaker 2: let the quarterback out of the pocket. Like that's not
Speaker 2: in a playbook anywhere in football, from high school to
Speaker 2: college to the NFL. No, no scheme is designed to
Speaker 2: invite the quarterback to get out of the pocket, right
Speaker 2: That's not how it works. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: they are, i think, are trying to be more aggressive.
Speaker 2: They're trying to get up the field more and make
Speaker 2: more splash plays in the backfield. They're trying to pressure
Speaker 2: the quarterback a little bit more and not prioritize, contain
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. Mush rush, you know,
Speaker 2: like that Bill used to prioritize, and right now it's
Speaker 2: just that's backfiring a little bit, and it's maybe it's
Speaker 2: just some growing paints like maybe in by week twelve,
Speaker 2: we're not talking about this and it's a lot better,
Speaker 2: you know. I don't know. I would allow for that
Speaker 2: as well, so maybe that's a possibility to all right,
Speaker 2: Patty is back. I knew he would be. What's up, Patty, guys? Hey?
Speaker 6: Sorry, I was working, well, I am working, and I
Speaker 6: hit the and button on my phone on accident. So good,
Speaker 6: nothing you guys did, all right, So, Alex, I'm one
Speaker 6: Patriots fan that I just want to see the kids
Speaker 6: play because I look at my eyeball tests and looking
Speaker 6: at the numbers, they're averaging under one hundred and thirteen
Speaker 6: yards pass in per game. Yeah, and I mean, you're
Speaker 6: not gonna win. And something tells me that may might
Speaker 6: be able to get out of pressure a lot better
Speaker 6: than Jakobe Brissett because he could actually take off and move.
Speaker 6: But I also wanted to throw a couple of things
Speaker 6: that at both of you guys. Evan, I know you
Speaker 6: love Kyle Shanahan, but the worst part about the game
Speaker 6: Sunday was was losing to him. I can't stand him,
Speaker 6: you know, And I hated Mike Shannon and too. He
Speaker 6: looks like a friggin rat, but Alex, I just got
Speaker 6: to say. Georgia versus Alabama eventually lived up to the hype.
Speaker 6: But the game of the weekend probably the game, the
Speaker 6: best college game I've probably seen since the two thousand
Speaker 6: and seven Fiesta Bowl was Miami Virginia Tech. It was
Speaker 6: such a crazy ending that it made me lose my
Speaker 6: It made me jump out of my seat. And like
Speaker 6: any real football fans who are out there, like who
Speaker 6: don't watch college football, you're really missing out because it's
Speaker 6: a great game, it's a great product, and and you're
Speaker 6: gonna be seen. Guys, I've been playing in the league.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, not you, No, I know.
Speaker 1: That's corrected him. I think I texted you and asked
Speaker 1: if you were watching, You're like, why would I be
Speaker 1: doing that?
Speaker 2: Well, I asked you why I would be doing that
Speaker 2: because I was in San Francis for the first time.
Speaker 1: I was sightseeing. That's fair. No, that they were both
Speaker 1: awesome games, Patty and I. By the way, I think
Speaker 1: the officials got the call right. They should have never
Speaker 1: called it a touchdown on the field.
Speaker 2: But awesome, awesome slate.
Speaker 1: This weekend, this past weekend, great college football.
Speaker 6: Yes, sir, all right, that's all I got.
Speaker 2: Guys, Thanks Patty, thanks for the call. Yeah I did.
Speaker 2: Actually we did want to watch that game. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: just didn't get back to it. Fair aunt time.
Speaker 1: Did you see what happened?
Speaker 2: You've seen the replace since as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: On uh, he says something about Drake Man. I don't
Speaker 1: remember what I Oh, no, it's not really I thought
Speaker 1: he was gonna say something that he didn't. Never mind, Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, can I I'll just say it, because now
Speaker 1: I gave the tease. Can I give you a Drake
Speaker 1: May take that. I think people are gonna hate, but
Speaker 1: I actually I stand by this. Yeah, because everybody's doing
Speaker 1: Drake Ma or Shane Daniels now right. Yeah, let's say
Speaker 1: Commanders took Drake May second and the Patriots took or
Speaker 1: even people, Oh, they shouldn't have won those games last year.
Speaker 2: I don't know what.
Speaker 1: Did you want Bailey's happy to purposely throw picks? Did
Speaker 1: you want Chad Ryland to purposely missed the field goal?
Speaker 2: And so like Chad Ryland did miss the field goal
Speaker 2: against the Giants that got us Drake Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't know. I don't understand. I hate
Speaker 1: that they won. How many games they won. Tanking happens
Speaker 1: from the GM up. He can't fault players for that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not a real You can be annoyed, but it's
Speaker 1: not like a realistic take to expect it. But let's
Speaker 1: even say that the Patriots drafted second took Jane Daniels.
Speaker 1: I still think they would have taken Drake May. But
Speaker 1: let's say they took jayde Daniels second, and the Commanders took.
Speaker 2: Drake May third.
Speaker 1: I think right now we would be in the same spot,
Speaker 1: and Drake May would be lighting it up in Washington
Speaker 1: and we would be wondering why they're not playing jayde Daniels.
Speaker 1: I think this is an organization thing. I think it's
Speaker 1: an Elliot Wolf, Alex man Pelt Packer Way thing, not
Speaker 1: a Drake May thing. That's not to say Drake May
Speaker 1: will be good, but if he was in Washington, he
Speaker 1: would have Cliff Kingsbury. He would have an offensive line, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, I think everybody's well, the Washington line's
Speaker 1: bad to I think they're ranked like eleventh this year.
Speaker 2: They've gotten better. They've gotten better.
Speaker 1: He would wear ranked poorly coming into the Okay, he
Speaker 1: would have Terry McLaurin. Yes, like Jerry Rice, Terry mclaurin's
Speaker 1: a good player, come on, good right, he's better than anybody.
Speaker 2: I heard. It is Jerry Rice who said that. Just
Speaker 2: it just seems like we're like, Terry mccorin is a
Speaker 2: really good player. Yeah, but is he the like if
Speaker 2: this Patriots team had Terry McLaurin, you'd feel comfortable with
Speaker 2: Drake May playing.
Speaker 1: More, not outright, but more. But but it's not even
Speaker 1: about comfort. It's about no, but this is my point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's about it's about the production, not so much like
Speaker 1: like the process of putting him in. Well, if they
Speaker 1: had just you know, if they just lost the game
Speaker 1: and draft j Daniels or if they're just trying to
Speaker 1: trade up, I think Jane Daniels would be sitting here.
Speaker 1: I think this is a a front office philosophy thing,
Speaker 1: not a Drake May versus jayde.
Speaker 2: And Daniels thing.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a uh, why am I blanking on
Speaker 1: the head coach?
Speaker 2: There a twenty eighty three guy dan Quinn.
Speaker 1: It's a dan Quinn, Cliff Kingsbury, Adam Peters, Peters thing
Speaker 1: versus Elliott wolf Drawdo, Alex Van Pelt. I think the quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: if you switch them, both teams would still be approaching
Speaker 1: it the same way.
Speaker 2: So really quickly. Then I do want to move on
Speaker 2: some other stuff. But what what makes me a little
Speaker 2: bit irked about the Washington situation is not you know
Speaker 2: that I'm cool with Drake.
Speaker 1: May he wanted Cliff Kingsbury.
Speaker 2: They not only could, but Adam Peters would have been
Speaker 2: so they could have had defensive minded head coach Girodd Mayo,
Speaker 2: Adam Peters Cliff Kingsbury and they could have basically had
Speaker 2: the same set.
Speaker 1: So I'll say this, if they had hired Cliff Kingsbury
Speaker 1: and Adam Peters instead of Elliott Wolf and Alex Van Pelt, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you know it all played out the same.
Speaker 1: I think Drake may would be playing right now, ye,
Speaker 1: all other things the same. I'm curious if you agree,
Speaker 1: but like it's not a we can debate. D Do
Speaker 1: you think it's a philosophy it's a philosophical thing.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: Drake may May be there starting right now and be
Speaker 1: having a ton of success, and Jane Daniels would be
Speaker 1: here on the bench and we'd be sitting here saying
Speaker 1: why aren't they playing Jayde Daniels. I'd probably be digging
Speaker 1: in harder honestly for them not to play him, because
Speaker 1: durability was one of his major questions coming out. But
Speaker 1: I just I had that thought this week that it's not,
Speaker 1: oh well, they couldn't get Drake May ready and washing
Speaker 1: and got Jane Daniels ready.
Speaker 2: It's not an ability to do it. It's a willingness
Speaker 2: to do it well. And I I know last week,
Speaker 2: I I probably contradict myself a little bit with this,
Speaker 2: but it does. It's worth noting that Jade and Daniels
Speaker 2: made like sixty career starts in college.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jane Daniels also more experienced, he was more.
Speaker 2: Pro ready, like he obviously totally different athletes, totally different ability,
Speaker 2: but like he was more Mac jonesy in that sense,
Speaker 2: right where like he was known coming into the draft
Speaker 2: like this guy can play for you right away, right
Speaker 2: like that that that's a big difference between Drake may
Speaker 2: And and Jade and Daniels. All right, let's do three up,
Speaker 2: three down. Then we'll talk some Miami Dolphins. And I'm
Speaker 2: telling you we've got we got the people fired up
Speaker 2: with the Drake May conversation, and I do find it
Speaker 2: kind of depressing that that's the only thing people want
Speaker 2: to hear us write or talk about. But I digress.
Speaker 2: Let's do three up. I'm right in the I'm doing
Speaker 2: a h kelvin banks sports dot Com. There's a question
Speaker 2: here for with that, so I'll let you get to
Speaker 2: that in a second. I did it two up, four down.
Speaker 2: I've just decided until they actually play a one score game,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be two up, four down.
Speaker 1: I actually managed to forget if I did three year.
Speaker 2: We talked about this last night, and I actually did
Speaker 2: three seconds of show prep. But when we're texting about it,
Speaker 2: all right, so work for the show. I'll just start
Speaker 2: we don't. This is off the cuff. It's the best part.
Speaker 2: Number one Jabriel Peppers, Number one up to May Jabriel Peppers.
Speaker 2: Uh comes out of the gate with that big stick
Speaker 2: on Deebo Samuel. He came to play. He came with authority.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: The interception was phenomenal. Like I'm not even exaggerating, Like
Speaker 2: that's like an Ed Reid esque interception. He has George
Speaker 2: Kittle in coverage on the play. In the lower part
Speaker 2: of the of the coverage, he sees brock Perdy progress
Speaker 2: off of George Kittle and onto the deep over and
Speaker 2: he drops off of his assignment and freelance is essentially
Speaker 2: in a good way this time and drops underneath the
Speaker 2: route and goes in high points the ball and picks
Speaker 2: it off adjustment. Yeah, that's an Ed Reid type of
Speaker 2: interception player. Unreal pass breakup. Earlier on in the game,
Speaker 2: the second to last play of the game, he's still
Speaker 2: playing through the whistle. He hustles all the way down
Speaker 2: the field, thirty yards down the field and makes the
Speaker 2: tackle on the running back with like two minutes to
Speaker 2: go in a blowout game. That's the type of guy.
Speaker 2: And I he had told I think it was Dacota
Speaker 2: Randall interviewed him in the locker room today. He told
Speaker 2: Dakota that Gerrod Mayo put that play up on the
Speaker 2: board and said, this is what we need more of.
Speaker 2: This is what we need to be about. He is
Speaker 2: what the Patriots need to be about. Jabreal peppers.
Speaker 1: I've been saying he he he might be one of
Speaker 1: the most underrated players in the league. Do you remember
Speaker 1: my kind of ridiculous take when they signed him, No,
Speaker 1: that if they were going to build a core from here.
Speaker 1: He could be this team's Rodney Harrison.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's. He's I don't know if he's as good
Speaker 2: as Rodney was. Maybe we're nostalgic to Rodney. I mean,
Speaker 2: like just overall impact. Yeah, he's. He's fantast hone setter,
Speaker 2: you know, leader from the front, things like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was really good. Okay, what do you got, jaln Polk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's tough because he's not he's not getting
Speaker 1: the ball, getting the ball. But I wonder why when
Speaker 1: you watch what he oh yeah, and when Drake may
Speaker 1: is on his back in two point one seconds because
Speaker 1: of the pass rush, a whole lot of difference.
Speaker 2: That's maybe Bob. At the time he gets hit, you
Speaker 2: can't by.
Speaker 1: The time it actually takes the snap to get back
Speaker 1: you take. I don't know if you remember this from
Speaker 1: the summer. One of the problems nick LeVert he didn't
Speaker 1: snap the ball fast.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: So by the time the ball gets back to take
Speaker 1: he got opened a few times. I think, because this
Speaker 1: year is is much about development as it his results.
Speaker 1: The deep ball that was ruled in complete realistically off
Speaker 1: the hand that should be an interception the fact that
Speaker 1: he just got to that ball to not allow the
Speaker 1: defender to make a play on it. Forget that close,
Speaker 1: getting that close to making it making it a catch
Speaker 1: was impressive, and he made a couple other contested catches too.
Speaker 1: I just I think you have to be encouraged not
Speaker 1: just in this game, but overall what you've seen from him.
Speaker 1: So he looks like a guy that belongs. And to
Speaker 1: what extent we'll find out at that point you're gonna
Speaker 1: see have to see Hi getting targeted more and getting
Speaker 1: the ball more. But he certainly looks like a guy
Speaker 1: that belongs. He certainly looks like a guy that can
Speaker 1: make play.
Speaker 2: So I'm swear I'm not doing this with Jalen Pulk
Speaker 2: to make my point about Drake May, but it's gonna
Speaker 2: kind of do that too. So he's the type of
Speaker 2: guy that you need to throw the ball to him.
Speaker 2: You can't lead him into throws because he doesn't have
Speaker 2: that kind of vertical speed. He doesn't have that second
Speaker 2: gear to run underneath and over the shoulder or something like.
Speaker 2: He's not Tyreek Hill, right, You're not gonna throw it
Speaker 2: to a spot fifty yards down the field and expect
Speaker 2: Jalen Polk to run and down. What you need to
Speaker 2: do with him is you need to throw it at
Speaker 2: to a spot like on his body right, like back shoulder,
Speaker 2: throw it over the defender's head. If it's you know,
Speaker 2: the defender has his back to the quarterback, just throw
Speaker 2: it up to him. You know, he has great hands,
Speaker 2: he's got great body control on the boundary. He is
Speaker 2: somebody that you need to throw open as the quarterback.
Speaker 2: And I think one of this that they have right
Speaker 2: now is that perseet in my opinion, mainly because he
Speaker 2: doesn't want to turn it over, but also just because
Speaker 2: this isn't really his game. He's not somebody that throws
Speaker 2: receivers open very often. Jalen Polk is a throw it
Speaker 2: open type of receiver. He is not going to create
Speaker 2: three yards of separation, right He's not going to just
Speaker 2: run by somebody or juke somebody out of his shoes.
Speaker 2: But he's got really sudden moves at the top of
Speaker 2: a route, and he's got really good body control in hands.
Speaker 2: So when he gets to with a quarterback, when he
Speaker 2: starts working with a quarterback that's willing to put the
Speaker 2: ball on him like that back shoulder throw, was when
Speaker 2: Jacoby more consistently than I think his stats will come
Speaker 2: and he'll start to show some more flashes. Right now,
Speaker 2: he's just not working with a quarterback that does that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. My number two up was Devon Godshaw.
Speaker 2: I know the run defense had some of its issues
Speaker 2: on the edge, but in the middle of the defense,
Speaker 2: I thought he was really good in this game. I
Speaker 2: had him down with three running three run stuffs in
Speaker 2: this one, and I just thought that he did his job.
Speaker 2: And I think that's where some of the frustration. I'm
Speaker 2: sure it comes from on the radio on Monday, where
Speaker 2: it's like, well, they weren't running it up the middle, right,
Speaker 2: It wasn't It wasn't my fault. So he played pretty
Speaker 2: well in this game, and he did a nice job.
Speaker 2: Who else do you have?
Speaker 1: So I have a couple more that I knew you
Speaker 1: wouldn't cover. Yep, Christian Ellis, that's fair.
Speaker 2: Was so good yea.
Speaker 1: In this game he was made a couple of big
Speaker 1: tackles on special teams, not just the one reforced and
Speaker 1: recovered the fumble, by the way, that's a high level play. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a punt late in the game when the Patriot
Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't in it, but they're still in
Speaker 1: theory in it. And the last two weeks I've had
Speaker 1: special teams punt coverages it down because they've allowed these
Speaker 1: big returns. They actually get beat initially, and Christian Ellis
Speaker 1: from behind is able to track down the returner and
Speaker 1: bring him down inside the twenty. That kind of athleticism,
Speaker 1: that kind of ability to tackle in the open field,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of ready to say, let's maybe see some
Speaker 1: of Christian Ellis on defense.
Speaker 2: I'm ready to I wrote it in after further review,
Speaker 2: I Taki might put a wrench in that, Yeah, because
Speaker 2: they're similar players. But Ellis in like the third down
Speaker 2: pass package, like obvious third down role you were talking
Speaker 2: about earlier, like whether he's spying, whether he's playing low hole,
Speaker 2: whether he's covering or running back in the flat. You know,
Speaker 2: just taking I know we're picking on him a lot today,
Speaker 2: but just taking like a Tava or McMillan off the
Speaker 2: field in that situation and putting a more athletic not.
Speaker 1: Even off the field. It allows you to put back
Speaker 1: on the ed and it allows you to play him
Speaker 1: in position.
Speaker 2: Maybe Kean bumps inside. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So Christian ELL's a really good game on special teams
Speaker 1: and to the point where it's not like, oh, you
Speaker 1: played well on special teams, You've earned your role.
Speaker 2: Something like that.
Speaker 1: His defense snaps Ford, but also the raw skill he
Speaker 1: showed translates well to what they need.
Speaker 2: Ye all right? Do the kickers?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: Well, Joey sly So in instead of franchise record, he
Speaker 2: does not only.
Speaker 1: That, the Pro Football Rep Friends database on this only
Speaker 1: goes back to nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2: But what I just love how you know that? Well
Speaker 2: because I looked it up. Yeah, he did your drop good.
Speaker 2: He's the only the fourth.
Speaker 1: Kicker since nineteen ninety four to hit a fifty plus
Speaker 1: yard field goal in a sixty plus yard field goal
Speaker 1: in the same game.
Speaker 2: Okay, And I'm trying to find the Brandon Aubrey one
Speaker 2: of them probably No, it's uh, Justin Tucker. Justin Tucker
Speaker 2: was the last one to do it in twenty twenty two. Yeah,
Speaker 2: fifty five and sixty seven. You want to guess the
Speaker 2: other two? One of them is like, he was arguably
Speaker 2: the best kicker in the league for a little bit.
Speaker 2: Sebastian Jenakowski now more recent I feel like he has
Speaker 2: had a huge leg I ei the twenty twelve twenty
Speaker 2: twelve Keskowski, No, because he made the sixty two yard Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, Greg zerline hit from fifteen sixty and then in
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, Martine gramatic Man from sixty and
Speaker 1: he's the only one who hit two sixties. Hit from
Speaker 1: sixty and sixty two. In two thousand and.
Speaker 2: Three, Martin show slide of the list the worst injury
Speaker 2: I've ever seen celebrating. No, No, that's when he got hurt, right.
Speaker 2: That was his brother, Bill Grammatica.
Speaker 1: Martin Grammatica had a long successful year by the way.
Speaker 1: Uh fun fact, the guy who replaced Bill Grammatica after
Speaker 1: that injury, yeah, Tim Duncan. Oh, not that Tim Duncan,
Speaker 1: but there was a kicker named Tim Duncan.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: No, Martin Grammatica is the brother. He was in the
Speaker 1: NFL for like twenty years.
Speaker 2: I thought that Martin Grammatica did that too. No, it
Speaker 2: was Bill. It was his brother Bill. Okay, all right,
Speaker 2: let's uh let's do do you have any more ups?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Is it? Who's your number?
Speaker 5: One?
Speaker 2: Down? My I'm glad you. I'm glad you prepared this week.
Speaker 1: But yeah, my number one down was I don't really
Speaker 1: put him in order, just kind of order.
Speaker 2: I hang of him. I numb one down.
Speaker 1: Skobert said it was his worst game of the year,
Speaker 1: and I feel like this this week he got in
Speaker 1: the way of the offense more than any other game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had him on the list. I had number one.
Speaker 2: I the defensive coaching staff. We don't have to belabor
Speaker 2: the point I've already been over my Missilloqually on that.
Speaker 2: I just thought they got out coached and did not
Speaker 2: do a very good job of putting players in positions
Speaker 2: to succeed. With that being said, one of those players,
Speaker 2: Jelani Tavai, has to have gone the downs ready for
Speaker 2: this stat His numbers in coverage on Sunday five for
Speaker 2: five for one hundred and twelve yards, and one of
Speaker 2: those was a touchdown that got wiped out by a
Speaker 2: phantom holding call on George Kittle that should have been
Speaker 2: a touchdown. So that goes down as like a twenty
Speaker 2: four yard game that should have been like a forty
Speaker 2: yard gain and a touchdown on top of that. So
Speaker 2: tack on another what sixteen yards and a touchdown onto that,
Speaker 2: So we're five for five for one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: eight yards in a touchdown. Now, sorry, math is hard. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a tech McMillin stat line. It's bad. It
Speaker 2: was not his fault. But when you're out there, you're
Speaker 2: out there. Yeah, and this Moore goes to coaching staff.
Speaker 1: We've talked about he's not an off ball linebackern that
Speaker 1: his first year here. He's an edge player and they
Speaker 1: got to get him back there.
Speaker 2: Okay, who's your next one?
Speaker 1: Romanre Stevenson somehow we haven't talked about yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Four fumbles in four games. Yeah, I can't have it.
Speaker 1: You just especially a week after. It is a point
Speaker 1: of emphasis in practice. You know this is coming up.
Speaker 1: He fumbled early in the game, and it's not like
Speaker 1: somebody on the Niners made this unbelievable play to knock
Speaker 1: the ball. Ou see, it's just outside his frame as
Speaker 1: he hits the line of scrimmage. You can't do that.
Speaker 1: So now the coaching staff's in this really tough position
Speaker 1: where he's still one of your two best playmakers on
Speaker 1: offense and the coaching staff doesn't seem particularly interested.
Speaker 2: In involving to Mario Douglas.
Speaker 1: So he's your essentially best playmaker, but as Gerardmeo said
Speaker 1: after the game, they can't afford to turn the ball over.
Speaker 2: Can't be So what he say, you can't be about
Speaker 2: job Security's bass security? Well he said that don't.
Speaker 1: Right, but he also said that, yeah, all right, so
Speaker 1: essentially that but yeah, what are you gonna do? You
Speaker 1: want to be this run heavy offense? He is your
Speaker 1: best playmaker, Yeah, but he continues to fumble the ball
Speaker 1: and at a certain point you can't have that. So
Speaker 1: I'm god, I don't have to make the decision. I know.
Speaker 1: Trod Mayo said this week Antonio Gibson might start, and
Speaker 1: I get that, but like, what's the dis I don't
Speaker 1: care about the starting what's the distribution of rep's gonna be?
Speaker 1: It's it's gonna be like the fantasy football thing. Will
Speaker 1: you give the guy a slap on the wrist by
Speaker 1: starting him in your flex or are they really gonna
Speaker 1: limit his carries?
Speaker 2: And if they limit his carries, what's the ceiling for
Speaker 2: the offense? So you're one hundred percent right on your
Speaker 2: bremonder being on the downs take. I'm glad you did see.
Speaker 2: We know each other well enough that I didn't put
Speaker 2: him because I actually thought would my thing with though
Speaker 2: with it is that I don't think Antonio Gibson's a
Speaker 2: volume back. He's not. So if all of a sudden
Speaker 2: just to for one game, yeah, I suppose. If you
Speaker 2: want to prove a point and you want to bench
Speaker 2: Remandre for one game, and you give Antonio Gibson twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five touches on Sunday, it's not the end of
Speaker 2: the world. But that's not gonna be and Tonio Gibson
Speaker 2: for the rest of the season.
Speaker 1: Well, but what do you do with Stevenson fumbles again,
Speaker 1: It's it's not a good problem. But so what I
Speaker 1: would do, I'd elevate Kevin Harris for this game, okay,
Speaker 1: and I would get and Tomichael Hasty was fine running
Speaker 1: the ball last week actually, and I.
Speaker 2: Just want to it's it's a detriment to Gibson to
Speaker 2: all of a sudden put him in a high volume see,
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 1: Think the SAME's about I think the same about Hasty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I'd elevate Kevin Harris and I would get
Speaker 1: not you still have to play Stevenson some but it's
Speaker 1: this guy's right here, he's gonna play. This guy can
Speaker 1: be a volume back, like I I would have Kevin
Speaker 1: Harris as party game plan this week.
Speaker 2: That's fair enough. Antonio Gibson, I am still finding myself
Speaker 2: and I feel like I've written this every single week
Speaker 2: in my game review. He is one of your most
Speaker 2: explosive players on offense. I know it happened in garbage time,
Speaker 2: but he hits a fifty yarder on a little check
Speaker 2: down coming over the middle of to feel a little
Speaker 2: crosser mesh traffic. You know, they run mesh and then
Speaker 2: they sneak the running back out of the backfield and
Speaker 2: it's a blown coverage and he goes for fifty yards.
Speaker 2: They don't have a whole lot of guys on their
Speaker 2: team that are capable of doing that on offense, like
Speaker 2: taking a five yard pass and turning it into a
Speaker 2: fifty yard game. He is one of them, maybe one
Speaker 2: of the only ones. It's probably like him in Pop Douglas. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I think he needs to be more involved, even separate
Speaker 2: from Rimandre's fumbling problems. And maybe they did it a
Speaker 2: little bit last week. They had a two back set
Speaker 2: with both of them on the field together, little pony action,
Speaker 2: Like maybe that's what it is. I know everybody wants
Speaker 2: to hear like screens and stuff like that. But it's
Speaker 2: not just that, Like can you flex him out wide
Speaker 2: and maybe you get him matched up on a linebacker
Speaker 2: and you hit him on a slant against a linebacker,
Speaker 2: Like maybe he runs a fade against the linebacker and
Speaker 2: you hit him on a go ball against a matchup
Speaker 2: Like he is a matchup for them. They don't have
Speaker 2: a lot of them. They need to find ways to
Speaker 2: use him as a matchup player. My last down, I
Speaker 2: can bind both of them. So and Layden Robinson. I
Speaker 2: didn't put Tray Jacobs on the downs because I honestly
Speaker 2: feel like that's a little unfair. Yeah, what do you
Speaker 2: expect to Yeah, but Leyden Robinson in city. So maybe
Speaker 2: not so much with Robinson. I understand it's So's first
Speaker 2: game back from injury, but those are probably gonna be
Speaker 2: two guys that are in the mix on the offensive
Speaker 2: line for you moving forward. They allowed a combined eleven
Speaker 2: quarterback pressures in this game, two sacks. Robinson by himself
Speaker 2: allowed seven quarterback pressures. Yeah. I think we need to
Speaker 2: cool down on Laydon Robinson. Yeah, I mean I've been there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Malie Collins is a solid NFL player Malie Collins is
Speaker 2: not an elite pass rushing defensive tackle. He looked like
Speaker 2: an elite pass rushing defensive tackle on Sunday, Like he
Speaker 2: looked like a problem. He's not a bad player, but
Speaker 2: just you know, for an example, he's not Quinn Williams right, Like,
Speaker 2: he's not one of those types of guys. And he
Speaker 2: he had his way with Leyden Robinson. So a lot
Speaker 2: of sack and quarterback hit and two more pressures. So combine,
Speaker 2: your two guards were a problem in this game. Obviously
Speaker 2: Trey Jacobs was a problem too, but really all the
Speaker 2: pressure came from those three spots. It was the two guards,
Speaker 2: and it was the left tackle. If that gets mitigated
Speaker 2: to just the left tackle, like, you can work with that,
Speaker 2: like we've talked about this before. If it's just one part,
Speaker 2: one position, you can coach around it. You can slide,
Speaker 2: you can chip, you can get the ball out quickly,
Speaker 2: you can run motion to that side of the field
Speaker 2: and try to stretch out the end like you can
Speaker 2: do stuff to make up for a bad left tackle.
Speaker 2: But if you're giving up pressure in the interior too,
Speaker 2: now you're just plugging a whole a boat with a
Speaker 2: bunch of holes in it and it's impossible. So they
Speaker 2: have to get better guard play and pass protection from
Speaker 2: those two guys. And you gotta hope that City So
Speaker 2: being back just.
Speaker 1: Or playing another game, right, just as kind of more
Speaker 1: into the float of things here and give you something
Speaker 1: else because Layde Robinson, especially in pass pro, like he's
Speaker 1: not there yet.
Speaker 2: He's just not there.
Speaker 1: And I think you have to rely on City So.
Speaker 1: And we saw Michael Jordan participating in practice, which is
Speaker 1: a good sign. He's been their sneaky best guard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll go from there.
Speaker 1: And I'll say this because I've got a ton of
Speaker 1: questions about Cold Strange. Yeah, you might need Cold Strange
Speaker 1: to come back as a center, not a guard. So
Speaker 1: Cole Strange, I know, Mark Daniels put it out there.
Speaker 1: I think right before we started to record, Cold Strange
Speaker 1: is gonna is on target to play this season. But
Speaker 1: I didn't read marks floor not soon. But that does
Speaker 1: not sound like at anytime soon. Like just saying that
Speaker 1: he's not ruled out for the entire year tells me
Speaker 1: that that is a maybe Thanksgiving target, you know, like
Speaker 1: like late November early. I am not optimistic that Cold
Speaker 1: Strange is coming back anytime.
Speaker 2: So the initial reporting was a couple of months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like seven eight weeks he has here, Mark Daniels,
Speaker 1: mass live, Cole Strange contractor return of the Patriots this season,
Speaker 1: although timelines depending on his recovery. Yeah, just says later.
Speaker 1: It just keeps saying later.
Speaker 2: This season, So that to me is at least an
Speaker 2: other month. Yeah. I've talked to Cole a little bit
Speaker 2: in the locker room and the impression that I've gotten
Speaker 2: from him is that he's not really even thinking about
Speaker 2: that right now. Right He's more thinking about getting healthy.
Speaker 2: So he's not clear.
Speaker 1: Daniels has he's not cleared to practice, and obviously that
Speaker 1: means return from pup.
Speaker 2: But I also wonder if that means like not even
Speaker 2: get on a field and start the ramps. Yeah, what
Speaker 2: I thought was interesting from what Kendrick Bourne said today
Speaker 2: to us, and I wanted to end this show. I know,
Speaker 2: we haven't really talked a ton of Dolphins. I'm I
Speaker 2: don't know how much it really matters.
Speaker 1: Well, I do want to talk Kendrick Bourne.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about like five minutes, ten to
Speaker 2: ten minutes about the Dolphins.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm always down to talk Kendrick Bourne.
Speaker 2: So with Bourne, what I thought was interesting is he
Speaker 2: said that he was physically cleared by the start of
Speaker 2: the season, but he almost treated the first four weeks
Speaker 2: as his training camp to get himself in shape to play.
Speaker 1: Published was the word he kept choosing to polish his routes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, things like that. So I you gotta think
Speaker 2: about the ramp up as much as you have to
Speaker 2: think about the health of the player. So if cold
Speaker 2: Strange is ready to go physically, he gets cleared medically
Speaker 2: by the doctors, let's say by the end of October,
Speaker 2: then he's probably gonna need a couple of weeks to
Speaker 2: get ramped back up.
Speaker 1: And just to be clear, some people may wonder, well,
Speaker 1: isn't that what the three weeks is for when you
Speaker 1: activate the guy. Some teams do it like that and
Speaker 1: just ramp them up over the course of practice. But
Speaker 1: then if you have a setback, you're out of luck.
Speaker 1: He's not coming back. Versus if you just do a
Speaker 1: solo ramp up that's not part of practice, and then
Speaker 1: you do it in essentially two stages, and then he
Speaker 1: comes back to practice and ramps up in that way,
Speaker 1: you just you have more control over the timeline.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so before I see you guys on the phones
Speaker 2: and we'll take your calls here, I promise. But I
Speaker 2: want to talk about some of the other, you know,
Speaker 2: new injury news that's been with the team because it
Speaker 2: is important. So let's start with David Andrews at a
Speaker 2: third now. Oh right, sorry, what was your third? Were
Speaker 2: talked about it, Josh and Jay?
Speaker 1: Okay, just the inability to hold the edge, not just
Speaker 1: not just in the past game in the run game
Speaker 1: is concerning right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally fair. All right, David Andrews. This one's a
Speaker 2: tough one for me because you know, I love David Andrews.
Speaker 2: He's been a really an ally covering this team, working
Speaker 2: for the team. He's been really good to me. I
Speaker 2: have nothing bad to say about David Andrews, the person
Speaker 2: David Andrews. At this point, it feels like his play
Speaker 2: on the field has been compromised by his body starting
Speaker 2: to give out on him a little bit. And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that, oh, it's not surprising that he's hurt
Speaker 2: long term. I'm just saying that at this stage of
Speaker 2: his career, he's played a lot of football He's always
Speaker 2: been pretty healthy outside of the blood clots issue in
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. He's played seasons upon seasons deep playoff runs,
Speaker 2: Like how many snaps in the NFL do you think
Speaker 2: David Andrews has played. It's got to be ten thousand, easily, right.
Speaker 2: It just feels like his body has given out on
Speaker 2: him a little bit here towards the end, and his
Speaker 2: past protection in particular starting last year, has dipped a
Speaker 2: little bit, and it was dipping already a little bit
Speaker 2: this year too. We talked about it in the Jets game.
Speaker 2: He might have been playing through an injury, separate injury,
Speaker 2: but playing through injury in that game. So from a
Speaker 2: pure blocking standpoint, just post snap, how does this guy
Speaker 2: perform block for block? I'm not sure, Nick Leverett's that
Speaker 2: much of a drop off at this point. You obviously
Speaker 2: can't replace the person. You can't replace the leader, you
Speaker 2: can't replace the grit, you can't replace the communication that
Speaker 2: he brings to the table. But I'm not quite as
Speaker 2: concerned about David Andrews to Nick Leverett as maybe you
Speaker 2: would think. I don't know how much of a drop
Speaker 2: off physically that is truly going to be with all
Speaker 2: the respect in the world for Andrews and for the player,
Speaker 2: I just I don't when I watched them on film,
Speaker 2: I don't see a major drop off right now from
Speaker 2: those two guys.
Speaker 1: I think maybe not physically, mentally, you're losing a ton. Yes,
Speaker 1: and again, Nick Leverage is not experienced center. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know he's played a little bit in the NFL, but
Speaker 1: one and this is something we'll watch this week, and
Speaker 1: maybe he's gotten better at I remember watching noticing the
Speaker 1: summer the ball doesn't come back with a ton of
Speaker 1: velocity in the shotgun.
Speaker 2: And that matters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And then on top of that, I actually
Speaker 1: thought he was a decent He's decent for most of
Speaker 1: the summer, but he had a couple of bad snaps
Speaker 1: late there, and those can't come back. I'm not comfortable
Speaker 1: saying that that the drop off is gonna be minimal.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was on Sunday. I think they got lucky.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's something you can count on if
Speaker 1: I were them. I and I know they worked out.
Speaker 2: Not Jesse Davis. I thought they worked out another center,
Speaker 2: at least.
Speaker 1: Sound one of the practice squad car yet, but I
Speaker 1: get another, I get another veteran center in here, and
Speaker 1: I mean Rod Nick Leverty's the starter he's been with
Speaker 1: the team. But we'll see with Brian Hudson. You know,
Speaker 1: Levert's on the injury report too. He can get real ugly,
Speaker 1: real fast at center. I'm not comfortable saying that David
Speaker 1: Andrews is going to be a minimal absence. Is there
Speaker 1: a chance that could happen.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not confident. I'm not saying he's going to
Speaker 2: be a minimal absence either. I just don't think it's
Speaker 2: going to be a physical decline. It's more gonna be
Speaker 2: unless you want to count snapping. I guess that's a
Speaker 2: physical app.
Speaker 1: I think that's especially for with an offensive line where
Speaker 1: every tenth of a second matters.
Speaker 2: We'll have to I didn't see his snaps being an
Speaker 2: issue on Sunday, but maybe it was one game that he.
Speaker 1: That's also the kind of thing that like, I don't
Speaker 1: know how much you look at this, and I didn't
Speaker 1: even I looked a little bit. The speed of the snap.
Speaker 1: I thought of it honestly today a practice, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I I if it was egregious, I would have noticed.
Speaker 2: It's not something that I necessarily noticed, which I feel
Speaker 2: like is a good thing, right, right, He there's a possibility.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to allow for the possibility that they
Speaker 2: kind of rammed him up at center starting like mid August,
Speaker 2: but he's had probably two months now.
Speaker 1: But that's what's concerning, is he was better earlier on
Speaker 1: when they start ramping HM up, and then late in
Speaker 1: the summer it became an issue.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe he's gotten better at snapping. Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: like in this timeframe, right, And let's also remember that
Speaker 2: David Andrews has always was kind of being managed. Like
Speaker 2: there's probably a lot of first team reps for Nick
Speaker 2: let a lot of first team Yeah, so maybe he's
Speaker 2: just gotten better at it. Like it's not no offense,
Speaker 2: but it's not like this incredibly hard thing. It's just
Speaker 2: a skill that you have to learn how to do.
Speaker 2: And so maybe he got better at it. Kendrick Bourne,
Speaker 2: I don't want to oversell it, but I don't want
Speaker 2: to undersell it because I do think this matters. I
Speaker 2: do think that this is gonna help. Yes, they do
Speaker 2: have receivers that are getting open, that aren't getting the
Speaker 2: football to an extent, but it's more about who you're
Speaker 2: taking off the field than any of that. Like, if
Speaker 2: he's in the spot that Taekwon Thornton and kJ Osborne
Speaker 2: have been in for the most part, I think what's
Speaker 2: gonna happen in the first four weeks of the season.
Speaker 2: He is a significant, significant upgrade upgrade over those two guys,
Speaker 2: and they are dying, dying for an X receiver that
Speaker 2: can win on one on one, like just one time,
Speaker 2: like run a slant and actually create some separation. They
Speaker 2: went to Osborne twice at the beginning of that game
Speaker 2: against the forty nine ers last week, and he was
Speaker 2: blanketed both times. Like, if you can now have somebody
Speaker 2: that can actually separate on that route and win on
Speaker 2: that route, that's huge for this team. Not to mention
Speaker 2: all the intangible stuff that Kendrick Bourne brings to the table.
Speaker 2: He's great after the catch. You know, ESPN has this
Speaker 2: new You're gonna hate this, but ESPN has this new
Speaker 2: receiving stat. This is a receiving data that they use.
Speaker 2: It's a cumulative stat and it combines separation like you know,
Speaker 2: the next gen separation, contested catchability, and yards after catchability. Right,
Speaker 2: those two things are tangible, right, The separation stats gets
Speaker 2: a little bit wonky. Out of one hundred and one
Speaker 2: receivers last year in twenty twenty three, Kendrick Bourne sixteenth,
Speaker 2: sixteenth best. He was like sandwiched between some really good players,
Speaker 2: like at the wide receiver position. He was on pace
Speaker 2: last year to be a thousand yard receiver on a
Speaker 2: terrible offense. Like he was having a career year before
Speaker 2: the ACL. Well see if he's pre ACL born, like
Speaker 2: that might not be till next year, you know how
Speaker 2: that works, right, But he was metrics wise, stats wise
Speaker 2: that you know, extrapulating his games for a sixteen seventeen
Speaker 2: game season last year. He was having a really good
Speaker 2: year for the Patriots in twenty three. So again I
Speaker 2: don't want to oversell it. I don't want to undersell it.
Speaker 2: They're not getting Jerry Rice or Randy Moss back, you know,
Speaker 2: there you go, but they I think they are getting
Speaker 2: a really really good player back.
Speaker 1: Well, the other thing, I mean, we were calling for
Speaker 1: them to do more like scheme touch stuff, yeah with
Speaker 1: Pop Douglas, which again they just don't see interested in doing.
Speaker 1: Kender Burns another guy you can do scheme touch with
Speaker 1: and you can run on some Mendo rounds and some
Speaker 1: jet passes and things like that, and he's really good
Speaker 1: at the ball in his hand. Right, maybe it opens
Speaker 1: up that part of the playbook a little bit more
Speaker 1: real quick kind of unrelated.
Speaker 2: But did you did I get quote tweeted again?
Speaker 1: No? Did you see Jason Kelsey's rant about analytics? This
Speaker 1: is my viewpoint on stats. Stats are numbers. What I
Speaker 1: care about is the football.
Speaker 2: Where does it go?
Speaker 1: Does it go to the end zone? Do we get points?
Speaker 1: Points are also numbers, but points determined games and wins
Speaker 1: and losses. Stats are numbers. Numbers are nerds. Nerds are losers.
Speaker 1: Therefore stats are losers. Thank you, Jason Kelsey.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's coming from a future Hall of Fame center
Speaker 2: you right, so he probably knows a thing or twill
Speaker 2: now you no offense or not, Jason Kelsey. So the
Speaker 2: fact that you are not on the nerd side of
Speaker 2: this is shocking. But his whole point is that stuff's
Speaker 2: all irrelevant.
Speaker 1: Real ballp the top, Ball up top, get to the
Speaker 1: end zone.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's the thing, cave Man, Ball up top, get
Speaker 2: to the ends? Have you not seen ball up top?
Speaker 2: My new Like, here's the thing. I was having a
Speaker 2: conversation with somebody the other day about this.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He asked me, what are you seeing on the defense? Right?
Speaker 2: I said, well, I can tell you what I'm seeing,
Speaker 2: but I'm not a coach, I'm not a player. I
Speaker 2: don't know it like you guys do. And he was like, well,
Speaker 2: tell me what you're seeing and I said, well, statistically,
Speaker 2: and he said, oh, you're going stats on me. And
Speaker 2: I was like yeah, and I was like, yeah, statistically,
Speaker 2: you guys think and Cover two. Okay, you guys are
Speaker 2: playing Cover two. You're getting freaking shredded. Stop playing Cover two.
Speaker 2: That's how I see it. And then I explained what
Speaker 2: I explained earlier in the show. You know, about the
Speaker 2: safeties and not having anybody to contain the quarterback and YadA, YadA, YadA,
Speaker 2: But the point being for us stats people, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: watched the film. I see that. I say to myself, dang,
Speaker 2: like it really seems like brock Party tore up Cover
Speaker 2: two in this game. Then I can go to next Gen,
Speaker 2: into the portal, into the dashboard and see brock Purty
Speaker 2: sure enough, was like one hundred and fifty yards on
Speaker 2: seven attempts in Cover two.
Speaker 1: Instead, he even says points or points are numbers they
Speaker 1: determined games like points, yards whatever. I'm talking about the acronyms.
Speaker 1: When you start putting expected in there, things like that
Speaker 1: like hate EPA, you hate it, show me tangibly.
Speaker 4: What it is.
Speaker 1: Fine if you can't formulate, or it's just pulling numbers
Speaker 1: out of thin air because it's expected this, or or
Speaker 1: you know when you stumers use numbers, are nerds?
Speaker 2: Nerds? Loss? You said that you wanted to bring up
Speaker 2: points per game with the defense, you knew in context
Speaker 2: that that might not be inaccurate. So what did I do?
Speaker 1: I went and found points per drive. That's another tangible number.
Speaker 2: E p A is context. E p A bakes in
Speaker 2: down in distance, score of the game situation. Is that
Speaker 2: kind of formula for e p A? Yes?
Speaker 1: Is it public?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 6: But no?
Speaker 1: Okay, so there, so I don't know because I don't
Speaker 1: formally is it is?
Speaker 2: But do you know how to code?
Speaker 1: That's not really? No, that doesn't count yards per drive,
Speaker 1: yards per attempt or completions against cover two. That is
Speaker 1: a tangible Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, good thing that it's supported my argument no
Speaker 2: matter what number we use, because they're bad in all
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: So stats are numbers I'm not tattooed guy, but I'm
Speaker 1: saying if I were, Stats are numbers. Numbers are nerds.
Speaker 1: Nerds are losers.
Speaker 2: Stats are losers.
Speaker 1: What a great quote by Jason Kelsey. Let's get back
Speaker 1: I think of the Kelsey Brothers guy, but what a quote.
Speaker 1: Let's get back to the TPX hotline. It is Steve
Speaker 1: in New York.
Speaker 2: What's up? Steve? Stay there? All right? We didn't even
Speaker 2: leave Steve on hold for that long. Ted is in Portland?
Speaker 2: What's up? Ted?
Speaker 4: Hey, what's up? Guys? Had a quick question that is hypothetical.
Speaker 4: But if Mayo, you know, I know you said we're
Speaker 4: starting Jacoby, why wouldn't you just say were starting Jacoby
Speaker 4: and then starkrek may and basically catch everyone off.
Speaker 6: God.
Speaker 4: I also wanted to ask Adam would you get him?
Speaker 4: And then also I wanted to add a suggestion. I
Speaker 4: know you guys have been talking about having a whiteboard.
Speaker 4: It would be awesome. We'd love to see it. I'm
Speaker 4: sure there's plenty of other people would love to see it.
Speaker 4: It also be a great way to promote the pods
Speaker 4: through YouTube short clips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ted, it's a great point. We do, we do.
Speaker 2: We did talk about the whiteboard, Well, we'll work on that.
Speaker 2: I think it would be a useful tool. We're gonna
Speaker 2: get one. I love that. Uh On DeVante Adams. I'm
Speaker 2: glad he brought this up because we probably should get
Speaker 2: addressed this on the show. You know me, I am
Speaker 2: a shiny new toy. I take de bait every time.
Speaker 2: I want the wide receiver. I love wide receivers. I'll
Speaker 2: take all the wide receivers for once in my life.
Speaker 2: I'm actually gonna say that I don't think this one
Speaker 2: makes sense, which is like shocking to me. I can't
Speaker 2: believe I even just uttered those words that this doesn't
Speaker 2: make sense to go out and trade for probably a
Speaker 2: top five receiver in football. But from Devonte Adams's perspective,
Speaker 2: I can't imagine he wants to come to New England.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the selling point is with the Patriots.
Speaker 2: He's already paid. He just wants to win, Like I just,
Speaker 2: I don't understand what if he doesn't want to play
Speaker 2: for the Raiders, and why does he want to play
Speaker 2: for the Patriots. You know that part of it doesn't
Speaker 2: add up. The other party that doesn't add up. And
Speaker 2: I say this as somebody that was born in the
Speaker 2: same month, in the same year as DeVante Adams. He's
Speaker 2: gonna be thirty two years old in December. A.
Speaker 1: We're born on literally the same day as Jacoby verses.
Speaker 2: I am, we have the same exact birthday. Where what's DeVante? Like,
Speaker 2: what's the outlook with Devonte Adams? Like, yes, you could
Speaker 2: make the argument that he could help Drake may in
Speaker 2: his first full year as a starter next year, but
Speaker 2: like now we're talking about a thirty two year old receiver. Like,
Speaker 2: I don't see how that it's not Stefan Diggs with Buffalo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right to me, So I'm with you, Like, he's
Speaker 1: not coming here, Yeah, And I know there's a clip
Speaker 1: going around of him being very complimentary of Robert Craft
Speaker 1: and Gerrod Mayo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, great, maybe.
Speaker 1: He comes here to coach one day. Like the whole
Speaker 1: reason he wants out is the quarterback position. There he
Speaker 1: has He's played with six quarterbacks in two years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a list that includes Jarrett Stidham, Jimmy Garoppolo, and Brian Hoyertman.
Speaker 2: Still put some numbers.
Speaker 1: It's still put a thousand yards last year, hundred catches.
Speaker 2: Hud A three I think he's not coming here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think hypothetically if he were to, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he can be your bridge to Stefan Diggs or that way.
Speaker 1: Like because you got to take tackle in the first round.
Speaker 1: I think we both agree on that. So you're not
Speaker 1: getting that immediate impact wide receiver in the draft. But
Speaker 1: maybe there's a guy you really like who's a year away. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take him in the second round. But we
Speaker 1: have DeVante Adams in the meantime, so we still have
Speaker 1: this player and Drake Macon can really get going next year.
Speaker 1: So I think there's an argument for it. The report
Speaker 1: out there is the Raiders want a second. That's cute
Speaker 1: that they want that. They can want whatever they want.
Speaker 1: I think realistically it's gonna be a third and maybe
Speaker 1: something else. He's also gonna want a contract extension. If
Speaker 1: it's like a third and you signed him for two years,
Speaker 1: I would probably do that. Yeah, but it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: You win, which is not hard with wide receivers. It's
Speaker 2: it's not hard to convince me to trade for a
Speaker 2: wide receiver. I just I just want I don't think
Speaker 2: it's a good marriage.
Speaker 1: Like, it's not it doesn't matter because he's not coming
Speaker 1: here right whatever they want, He's trying to get away
Speaker 1: from quarterback instability.
Speaker 2: What I would say, though, if I'm Elliot Wolf, because
Speaker 2: you have to make the call, if you're the page,
Speaker 2: they should one make the call. Do I put the
Speaker 2: Matthew judea On third round pick on the table.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, and to anybody listening,
Speaker 1: ask yourself this, because I had this conversation with somebody
Speaker 1: the other day to say, third round pick, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: If I had brought up in July, you can trade
Speaker 1: Matthew jude On for DeVante Adams. Yeah, I think it
Speaker 1: would have been yess across the board. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: just doing that with this is essentially just making that
Speaker 1: a three team trade. You know me, I am an
Speaker 1: FM picks kind of guy. Yeah, especially.
Speaker 2: You're not trading your first round pick this year. I'll
Speaker 2: even allow for the fact that you're not trading your
Speaker 2: second round pick because until April, because we're talking not
Speaker 2: until March. We're talking about that being like the third
Speaker 2: and the thirty fifth overall pick in the draft. Those
Speaker 2: are two picks that should be legitimate pillar players this team.
Speaker 2: You're not trading it until you know exactly what pick
Speaker 2: it is. Yeah, that like if they trade it for
Speaker 2: DK Metcalf, I'm on the record, I'm on board with that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but with that being said, once you get
Speaker 2: into the third round of the draft, and I know
Speaker 2: that you could say, okay, like you know, Chase Winovich
Speaker 2: was a third round pick and so was Fred Warner Evan, Like,
Speaker 2: you know, we could play this game all day, right,
Speaker 2: but the on the whole really go back and look
Speaker 2: at the guys that get drafted in the third and
Speaker 2: fourth round of the draft. Like it's sometimes I feel
Speaker 2: like we just value the pick a little bit too much.
Speaker 2: Like you're really talking about maybe twenty twenty five percent
Speaker 2: hit rate on a third round pick, and hit rate
Speaker 2: is like a loose term that I use. Like the
Speaker 2: amount of times that that third round pick turns into
Speaker 2: Fred Warner is one.
Speaker 1: In ten, right, You're you're I'd say a lot longer
Speaker 1: than a lot longer odds than that. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you can get two years of DeVante Adams, even
Speaker 1: if he's eighty percent of the player he's been, that's
Speaker 1: eighty catches eight hundred yards for a third round pick
Speaker 1: when you have two of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right, let's talk a little like I
Speaker 2: do want to ask, he said, He asked one other thing.
Speaker 2: Oh it's Adams. Oh it's something about Drake Mayo.
Speaker 1: Oh why don't you just say you're starting Jakober set
Speaker 1: then say then start Drake made it catch the team
Speaker 1: off guard. I think the whole keeping the starting quarterback
Speaker 1: a secret thing is one of the most overblown concepts
Speaker 1: in football. The offense is the offense. You're gonna have
Speaker 1: to defend the same concepts. It's just to what level
Speaker 1: they can be executed. But like, if the guy's executing
Speaker 1: at a high level, like you should be prepared to
Speaker 1: stop him at the highest level no matter what. So
Speaker 1: I got I just that's not a good reason to no.
Speaker 1: Make Drake may the starter. When you make Drake may
Speaker 1: the starter, do it, do it with your whole chest.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, just one quick thing, because I I'm not
Speaker 2: afraid to be critical of Mayo. I was critical of
Speaker 2: Mayo for the whole first hour of the show, But
Speaker 2: on Sunday I saw a lot of this, and I
Speaker 2: guess it's probably just my timeline and the cesspool that
Speaker 2: is the X Machine every once in a while. But
Speaker 2: Mayo told Scott Zolac on the pregame show on your station,
Speaker 2: like twenty minutes before the game that they were gonna
Speaker 2: run a lot of short passes, quick game, get the
Speaker 2: ball out. Why would you tell the other team that
Speaker 2: that's ridiculous? So you're telling me that, I think it's
Speaker 2: Nick Sorenson, the defensive coordinator for the forty nine ers,
Speaker 2: and Kyle Shanahan and your boy Brandon Staley in twenty
Speaker 2: minutes are gonna take the game plan that they came
Speaker 2: in with and completely reinvent the game plan in twenty
Speaker 2: minutes because of what Girod said to Scott Zolac, Like,
Speaker 2: what are we doing If they're good coaches who know
Speaker 2: how to game plan, which give them the list? Okay,
Speaker 2: but yeah, if they're good coaches who know what a
Speaker 2: game plan, they probably should have known that was gonna
Speaker 2: be the game play anyway, that was anything mind blowing. Also, no,
Speaker 2: because I saw this too and I was annoya, Yeah,
Speaker 2: drawn my own van Pelt told us that was gonna
Speaker 2: be the game plan on Monday. Yeah, it was out
Speaker 2: there for a week.
Speaker 1: It's just also just not how with Brandon Staley. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe you got to tell him a few times before
Speaker 1: he gets it, Brent Day.
Speaker 2: It's just not how it works. Yeah, it's not tell
Speaker 2: you tell a broadcaster or twenty minutes before the game.
Speaker 2: You're not giving away any state secrets. You're not giving
Speaker 2: away which, by the way, again they've already said earlier
Speaker 2: in the week. Yeah quickly on the Dolphins, Yeah, uh,
Speaker 2: just my quick dolphins R. I know the Dolphins are
Speaker 2: right now in disarray. I know you hated my take
Speaker 2: that I gave earlier in the show about Drake May
Speaker 2: playing in this game.
Speaker 1: Well, it was him playing in the game and then
Speaker 1: benching him again.
Speaker 2: I didn't say that they had to bench him again.
Speaker 2: I said that they could still bench him. I don't.
Speaker 2: We don't need to get into it again. My one
Speaker 2: fear about this game from a Patriot perspective, I have
Speaker 2: to but on offense, the Dolphins offense. I watched their
Speaker 2: film against Tennessee with with scoop right, Scoop Hunley, Scoop poop.
Speaker 1: I think it's snoop.
Speaker 2: I think it's Scoop, Snoop, Scoop. We're terrible.
Speaker 1: It's snoop, Tyler Huntley, It's Snoop. I just looked it
Speaker 1: up and Snoop Snoop Huntley. Maybe Scoop would be a
Speaker 1: terrible name for quarterback, maybe like a linebacker.
Speaker 2: I know, I think it's a terrible name either.
Speaker 1: Didn't the Patriots that was Scooby.
Speaker 2: They had Scooby right, Scooby right, So you I think
Speaker 2: like UFL also Snoop Huntley, SFL all start and champion.
Speaker 2: So my my one fear about this game coming off
Speaker 2: a game where you give up five explosive plays to
Speaker 2: the San Francisco forty nine ers, this is obviously one
Speaker 2: of the most explosive offenses in the NFL. I get
Speaker 2: they don't have their quarterback. I get that they have
Speaker 2: Snoop Huntley now.
Speaker 1: A Bowl or Snoop Puntley's in respect on his Okay,
Speaker 1: he was seventeenth, he was there with Mac John.
Speaker 2: Snoop Puntley is that quarterback? Not to U I get
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. But you watch their film
Speaker 2: against Tennessee, and if I was DeMarcus coming into Rod
Speaker 2: Mayo and Comington said this this morning, I'll give him credit.
Speaker 2: I think he probably did do this. Just put a
Speaker 2: cut up of all the times that Tyreek Kill has
Speaker 2: opened down the field in that game, you know, just verticals.
Speaker 2: You know, they play cover three. He just runs right
Speaker 2: through the defense right like, and he's open it. Just
Speaker 2: somehow Snoop Huntley overthrew Tyreek Kill, which I still don't
Speaker 2: really understand how you do, but he did. He figured
Speaker 2: it out. So my point being is my fear about
Speaker 2: this game defensively for the Patriots is that the plays
Speaker 2: are there to be made by this Dolphins offense. The
Speaker 2: execution in the timing is not there because of the quarterback.
Speaker 2: Right so all it takes is the blind squirrel finding
Speaker 2: a nut once or twice in this game, and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden you're down fourteen to nothing because he
Speaker 2: hit two sixty yard bombs to Tyreek Kill. The opportunities
Speaker 2: are still there on film for this offense to hit
Speaker 2: big plays. They're just not running it like they usually
Speaker 2: run it. I know you're gonna probably hate this, but
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily see this as like a McDaniel problem necessarily,
Speaker 2: but I definitely see this as a quarterback timing issue
Speaker 2: with the receivers don't fall asleep at the wheel against
Speaker 2: this Miami.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 1: McDaniel's so brilliant, make it work. How many bad quarter
Speaker 1: backs as Kyle Shanahan.
Speaker 2: Won with to an extent, I just love that.
Speaker 1: That just backdoored you well, I said, I said, to
Speaker 1: an extent, Kyle Shanahan's never been this bad. No, and
Speaker 1: Shanahan's better than me. You have knockoff Shanahan essentially, so.
Speaker 2: To me, Yeah, the big.
Speaker 1: Plays scare me because they only need to hit one
Speaker 1: of them probably to win this game.
Speaker 2: And I was saying this to Uh.
Speaker 1: I was talking about what we were walking out of practice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a there's gonna be turnovers in this game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: defensive points. If a defense scores a touchdown, the team
Speaker 1: probably wins this game. If not, we won't see a tie.
Speaker 1: Like I I, it's gonna be low scoring, zero zero
Speaker 1: leather helmets. It's gonna be low scoring. There's I would
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a very very thin margin for error.
Speaker 1: And I know that kind of sounds weird because it's
Speaker 1: usually like, no, you have a thin margin forrer when
Speaker 1: you play good team. I'm talking about offensively. Defensively you
Speaker 1: have more margin forrer. But yeah, if this defense needs
Speaker 1: to start forcing turnovers, and I know they did last
Speaker 1: week it was late in the game. Yeah, they need
Speaker 1: to start forcing turnovers short fields if not points on
Speaker 1: the board. Turnovers are on im portant every week, but
Speaker 1: I think this week especially they matter. And again if
Speaker 1: a defense scores, My bet is that team wins the
Speaker 1: game if a defense puts points on the board in
Speaker 1: this one. So, I think you don't get beat deep.
Speaker 1: I think you play ben, don't break, and you force
Speaker 1: Tyler Huntley to be a surgeon in the red zone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but don't let him break contain because he can. He
Speaker 1: can break a sixty yard run and that kind of
Speaker 1: thing can turn out the game too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a little bit, I agree with you that
Speaker 2: they this should be the Patriots should be forcing them
Speaker 2: to march. You have to be at death by a
Speaker 2: thousand paper cuts if you're gonna beat us, snap the
Speaker 2: ball a bunch, march the field. That means playing discipline football. Yeah.
Speaker 2: They Miami also motions more than any other team in
Speaker 2: the league. They love to run motion at the snap.
Speaker 2: They run that at the second highest rate. They run
Speaker 2: all pure motion across the board at the highest rate
Speaker 2: in the league. Almost eighty five percent of their offensive
Speaker 2: place motion of some sort, which is ridiculous. If I'm
Speaker 2: the Patriots defensively, I'm looking at this and seeing Christian
Speaker 2: Zales and Jonathan Jones on the outside, Marcus Jones in
Speaker 2: the slot, and this matchup actually can work, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I have three guys that can run with those guys
Speaker 2: down the field. I don't know if this is necessarily
Speaker 2: a game where you shadow or travel with a specific receiver,
Speaker 2: allow them to window dress, eye candy all they want
Speaker 2: with all their silly little motions, and just let them
Speaker 2: come out the side they come out of right, and
Speaker 2: just yeah, match the guy that comes into your zone
Speaker 2: and play it like that. I wouldn't go and have
Speaker 2: Gonzo chasing Hill across the field and then Hill runs
Speaker 2: on Thomas Rout and you're in chase mode the whole time.
Speaker 1: Do you put John Jones on Tyreek Hill and man
Speaker 1: and you're better with terminology and I always forget what
Speaker 1: he's called, but you put John Jones shadow man on
Speaker 1: Tyreek Hill, and everybody plays zone around that. So you
Speaker 1: make sure Hill's accounted for with the guy that's history
Speaker 1: had a lot of success against him, and then everybody
Speaker 1: else is just make sure we have the rest of
Speaker 1: the field covered.
Speaker 2: So against Kansas City in the ANFC Championship game all
Speaker 2: those years ago in twenty eight team the call that
Speaker 2: they ran with Tyreek Kill dimod magic cover zero. Now
Speaker 2: it's not pure cover zero. They what they would have
Speaker 2: is they would have Devin mccordy would cloud to Tyree
Speaker 2: Kill's side, so he would like be like the over
Speaker 2: the top player, the double team on Tyreek' side. You
Speaker 2: don't want to bracket or cone Tyreek because he's just
Speaker 2: going to run right through the middle of it. You
Speaker 2: want to high low Tyreek Kill, so you have a
Speaker 2: guy on him underneath, and you have a guy over
Speaker 2: the top of that player. So they would do that,
Speaker 2: and then everybody else on the field is just in
Speaker 2: straight up man to man without safety help. You're in
Speaker 2: cover zero. Everywhere else they could do something like that.
Speaker 2: They have done stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Because now you're in man and you have to pass off.
Speaker 2: I'm saying just like so, they they've also played cloud right,
Speaker 2: so three cloud would be like you'd have a defender
Speaker 2: on the line of scrimmage. Usually they would do it
Speaker 2: with Jabriel Peppers and they would just have Jabriel Peppers
Speaker 2: chuck the crap out of them at the line of scrimmage,
Speaker 2: and then he would let him go after he released,
Speaker 2: and then Gonzo would pick him up like eight to
Speaker 2: ten yards off the line of scrimmage, but he would
Speaker 2: already have been slowed by the jam at the line.
Speaker 1: But you can't do that.
Speaker 2: He's in motion though, So that's the problem with the motions.
Speaker 2: So that's why I feel like if they just let
Speaker 2: him come out whichever side he's gonna come out of,
Speaker 2: and then just catch him down the field, you know,
Speaker 2: by playing off coverage with him, like if you're if snow,
Speaker 2: Puntley's gonna beat you throwing like little crossers and slants
Speaker 2: and stuff like that because you're playing off Like that's
Speaker 2: what Tua would do, right, But I don't really trust
Speaker 2: new Puntley.
Speaker 1: To do making keep making through I get. I don't know,
Speaker 1: just almost like spying Tyreek Hill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would do something like that. Yeah, offensively. Anthony
Speaker 2: Weaver is a Raven's disciple McDonald guy with the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 2: They can pressure now. They lost Jalen Phillips, but they
Speaker 2: have Zach Steeler, who's like a really underrated play on
Speaker 2: their interior, really good player. It doesn't get a ton
Speaker 2: of National pub Kalais Campbell obviously is not a Miami Dolphin.
Speaker 2: He's still doing his thing. And Emmanuel Agba is like
Speaker 2: a really solid, well rounded football player. He's not a
Speaker 2: twitchy athlete like Phillips's. He kind of reminds me a
Speaker 2: little bit of Dietrich wise, like just long arm, physical,
Speaker 2: heavy guy, discipline player. He's really good too. They can
Speaker 2: pressure and they can man pressure, and they probably will
Speaker 2: on Sunday against the Patriots and go with the same
Speaker 2: book or the blueprint. The Jets, the Niners, they do
Speaker 2: use the same blueprint. They blintched a ton, They played
Speaker 2: Manta Man. They forced the ball outside the numbers, you know,
Speaker 2: funnel it outside, make them beat us quick, made them,
Speaker 2: make them beat us and block us. I assume that's
Speaker 2: what Miami is gonna do as well. I assume it's
Speaker 2: gonna be pretty successful. To be honest with you, I
Speaker 2: don't know what the Patriots do the way.
Speaker 1: They literally just signed Tyas Bowser, okay, so they know
Speaker 1: the guy that can get after the quarterback.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the Patriots are going to do
Speaker 2: to get teams out of the blueprint that they're currently in.
Speaker 2: They're facing the number one rate in the league of
Speaker 2: single high defensive structure like cover one, cover three, post safety,
Speaker 2: seven to eight guys in the box, blitz a ton,
Speaker 2: pressure a ton, man coverage a ton like. I don't
Speaker 2: know how you get teams out of that with their
Speaker 2: current personnel. But that's a VP, right Like. He's got
Speaker 2: to figure out a way because right now, you're not
Speaker 2: going to be able to run the ball against the
Speaker 2: boxes in the counts that they're seeing very successfully. Unless
Speaker 2: 'm Andre who's fumbling every game, goes beast mode like
Speaker 2: he did in Week one, you're not going to be
Speaker 2: able to do run the ball a whole lot. I
Speaker 2: don't know where they go offensively defensively, I think they
Speaker 2: have some answers, especially with a backup quarterback in there.
Speaker 2: They were all predicting a rock fight on Sunday. It
Speaker 2: sounds like you're in the same boat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, much.
Speaker 2: All right, one quick email before we because this is
Speaker 2: this is topical. So Eric emails in and he says
Speaker 2: that he works for a company. I get this that
Speaker 2: makes digital whiteboard apps.
Speaker 1: Oh, here we go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a digital whiteboard, so we could probably
Speaker 2: do it right here on the tablet, and he said
Speaker 2: that he is a big fan of the show and
Speaker 2: is willing to give us a free account to make
Speaker 2: this happen.
Speaker 1: We may need to put this now. The problem is
Speaker 1: a lot of people also just listen audibly.
Speaker 2: Yes, so we yes, we're serving the the YouTube body
Speaker 2: and so no, you would just have to be able
Speaker 2: to describe what's going on as you do. Maybe I
Speaker 2: could do a little play by play, or I would
Speaker 2: all you're right, and you'd have to remind me to
Speaker 2: say sorry to the listening on it, to pull a
Speaker 2: Colin Coward and say, I know only the people watching
Speaker 2: on TV can see this graphic, but here's this graphic
Speaker 2: that I made.
Speaker 1: So maybe we need to get that hooked up to
Speaker 1: the YouTube or could we just project it behind us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: Okay, But we have another email about like Kelvin Banks
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, of course you want to get to that.
Speaker 2: I'll let you have this one the email are asked,
Speaker 2: and sorry, I'll I can't find out. I'll find out
Speaker 2: when you're talking to get the emailer's name. But he
Speaker 2: asked that he's seeing a lot of mock drafts that
Speaker 2: are flipping the two of them now, and well, Calvin
Speaker 2: Banks has moved ahead of Will Campbell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a couple of reasons for that. I think
Speaker 1: there is concern about arm length. Arm length with Will Campbell.
Speaker 1: Jim Naggy had it at thirty two and seven eighths,
Speaker 1: which would be just under the threshold.
Speaker 2: Now you may not care.
Speaker 1: Who is the guy. The threshold was thirty four and
Speaker 1: then he was at thirty three and they were just like, nope,
Speaker 1: he's a good tackle for Shawn all right, so maybe
Speaker 1: he resets the threshold again. The other thing is Will
Speaker 1: Campbell is five penalties in five games. Four of them
Speaker 1: are false starts. Not all of those are on the road.
Speaker 1: And look, they've both been very good. I'd be happy
Speaker 1: with either, but when it is that narrow, you're going
Speaker 1: to look at things like penalties, and Calvin Banks has
Speaker 1: been clean. He also played better against Michigan Campbell did
Speaker 1: against South Carolina. That's each team, basically is each player
Speaker 1: basically is one marquee matchup. I mean, Campbell played Florida
Speaker 1: State two and held up well there, But that doesn't
Speaker 1: surprise me these guys. It's gonna be Drake May, Jane
Speaker 1: Daniels all over again just to tackle.
Speaker 2: So this is Nicholas asked this question. I haven't studied
Speaker 2: these guys. This is gonna happen though, because last year
Speaker 2: it was around November that I threw on the first
Speaker 2: Drake May tape. I think I was in Denver and
Speaker 2: was probably texting you like, can we draft this guy now? Please?
Speaker 2: And I think it was around November that I threw
Speaker 2: on the first Drake May tape. So it's coming. It's coming, folks,
Speaker 2: I'm sure I will. I haven't watched them closely enough
Speaker 2: yet to have a take on, like which one I
Speaker 2: liked better. I liked Will Campbell's tape last year better
Speaker 2: than Kelvin Banks's tape. That's what I've been going off of.
Speaker 2: But that was last year. We have more information.
Speaker 1: We also see the penalties on tape.
Speaker 2: To the arm length thing, it is a factor. It
Speaker 2: will matter. Combine is gonna be big. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be there with the tape measure.
Speaker 1: If he's at thirty two and seven, Ace, does he
Speaker 1: like have two friends pull on him before he goes
Speaker 1: to the measurement so can find another quarter inch?
Speaker 2: So Rashaun Slater for the Chargers, Uh, he has exactly
Speaker 2: thirty three inch arms. Yeah, on the nose, he's fantastic.
Speaker 2: He's elite at left tackle. Yeah, So everybody has kind
Speaker 2: of redone their thought process there. This is gonna you're
Speaker 2: gonna hate this. It's right up your alley. The nerd
Speaker 2: side of things is trying to convince the football people
Speaker 2: that arm length is a myth, not a myth, but
Speaker 2: like doesn't matter as much. Like obviously, if a guy
Speaker 2: is thirty one inch charms, he's not gonna play tackle.
Speaker 1: But so for for reference, Peter Skorronsky was thirty two
Speaker 1: and a quarter.
Speaker 2: Right, So thirty two and seven eights versus thirty three
Speaker 2: or thirty three and a half. The nerds would tell you,
Speaker 2: what are we talking about. We're talking about half an
Speaker 2: inch and now you're gonna move the guy inside the
Speaker 2: guard over half an inch of arm length, Like that's
Speaker 2: not gonna make a big differen And the football people
Speaker 2: and some of the football people in this organization that
Speaker 2: I've talked to, they they think it matters. Like I
Speaker 2: remember we were talking about Mike on Win who going
Speaker 2: and playing tackle and signing him as a tackle. The
Speaker 2: one thing that was pointed out to me by people
Speaker 2: here is that he actually has tackle length. If you
Speaker 2: look at his arms, he's over the thirty three inch threshold.
Speaker 2: So they do care about this kind of stuff here. Well.
Speaker 1: So all right, So, and it's one thing, like you said,
Speaker 1: thirty two even thirty two and a half, thirty two
Speaker 1: and seven, a's talking about a quarter inch how much
Speaker 1: g factor in So Slater's thirty three inch arms at
Speaker 1: six y four? Yep, Campbell's listed again we'll see at
Speaker 1: the combine. But Campbell's listed at sixty six, so he
Speaker 1: has more. The proportions are different. Does that make sense
Speaker 1: to get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I actually on one who has a thirty
Speaker 2: four and three Acey he clears it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But just even if they are thirty three, even if
Speaker 1: Campbell comes into thirty three likes later, just thirty three
Speaker 1: at six six get viewed differently than thirty three at
Speaker 1: sixty four.
Speaker 2: It's different because like when you talk about height, the
Speaker 2: two things that you look at with height are stride
Speaker 2: length is the biggest one. So like taller tackles, the
Speaker 2: advantage that they have is that they have they are
Speaker 2: their strides are longer, so when they kick out in
Speaker 2: their pas set, they get more depth and they get
Speaker 2: they cover more ground with their steps. That's on when
Speaker 2: who's problem Like he has got the length, but he's
Speaker 2: only six two sixty three so his strides are smaller,
Speaker 2: so he doesn't cover the ground.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: The other issue though, is the Nate Soldier thing where
Speaker 2: you're too tall, right, and then you can't leverage and
Speaker 2: then you can't get underneath guys and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So I would say it's different buckets length. You know
Speaker 2: arm length, and I know you know this, but I'm
Speaker 2: just explaining it. Arm length is first contact, right first,
Speaker 2: meaningful contact is big. Not exposing your chest is big.
Speaker 2: So when you have long arms, you can keep guys
Speaker 2: at your fingertips and then you can keep guys out
Speaker 2: of your chest and now to your plate.
Speaker 1: That's going to concern people about Campbell because he plays
Speaker 1: relatively straight up.
Speaker 2: Now, it walks for him, at least the college level.
Speaker 1: It works for me. He's in the SEC, but he
Speaker 1: plays more vertically than you probably coach a guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it'd be interesting to see what I see.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously, I think Calvin Banks is more of
Speaker 2: that prototypical build for a tackle like He's gonna check
Speaker 2: all the threshold and stuff. I just from technically, from
Speaker 2: a technical perspective, I remember what I saw of Will
Speaker 2: Campbell was really really impressive. Not all that different than Scornsky,
Speaker 2: you know, I know you brought him up earlier. It's
Speaker 2: not all that different. Scoronsky was just you could tell
Speaker 2: that that dude came out of the womb as an
Speaker 2: offensive lineman right like it was just in his blood.
Speaker 2: The technique was just so good. I think Campbell's in
Speaker 2: a similar boat. All right, that does it for this week,
Speaker 2: or he'll be back next week. We'll talk about the
Speaker 2: Houston Texans. That'd be a fun little one. We'll see.
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll still be in Drake may wait and
Speaker 2: see mode at that point, and Alex we'll get his
Speaker 2: way and we'll wait for ten years for that. But
Speaker 2: we'll get c. J. Stroud and the Texans here. Next week.
Speaker 2: Will recap this game against the Dolphins. But before we go,
Speaker 2: this week, the Pats are facing off against the Miami Dolphins,
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