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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A little girl just seven

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Speaker 1: years old found locked in a closet, starved at best,

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Speaker 1: getting one corn dog a day, and tonight the search

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Speaker 1: is on for her little sister, Lassigne two thousand and seventeen.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. With me an all start pound to

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Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. Listen to this.

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Speaker 2: On April third, twenty twenty five, Austin Police Department responded

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Speaker 2: to a nine to one to one call for a

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Speaker 2: seven year old child that was found locked in a

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Speaker 2: closet and starving. The seven year old was immediately taken

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Speaker 2: to a local hospital for medical treatment and it's currently recovering.

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Speaker 2: There were six other children found in the home that

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Speaker 2: appeared physically healthy.

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Speaker 3: Police officers at an Austin apartment find a severely malneurish

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Speaker 3: year old girl who is barricaded in a bedroom closet.

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Speaker 3: The child has found soiled, weighing just twenty nine pounds

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Speaker 3: and has been confined to a three foot by two

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Speaker 3: foot clauset space for approximately a month. Investigators find the

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Speaker 3: child has been given one corn dog and a half

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Speaker 3: a cup of water a day, doctors at Deell Children's

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Speaker 3: Medical Center determined the little girl is suffering moderate to

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Speaker 3: severe cerebral atrophy from prolonged malnutrition, damage from which she

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Speaker 3: will never recover.

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Speaker 1: What did that, even, Maian? How can a child survive

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Speaker 1: day after day, week after week, month after month locked

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Speaker 1: in a dark closet, living off nothing? Again with me

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Speaker 1: an all star panel, But first straight out to Christina

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Speaker 1: Ohio joining US investigative reporter Christina this child locked in

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Speaker 1: a closet. What happened?

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Speaker 4: Well, according to the affidavit, when police got there, When

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Speaker 4: the caller called in for the welfare check and police

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Speaker 4: got there, they found a seven year old little girl

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Speaker 4: locked in a closet. It was barricaded by seventy five

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Speaker 4: pounds of boxes. They opened that door, they found that

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Speaker 4: child in there. She was soiled, surrounded by feces. She

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Speaker 4: was severely malnourished. She had dark spots all over her body,

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Speaker 4: which is a sign of severe malnourishment. They took her,

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Speaker 4: of course, to the hospital where she weighed twenty nine pounds,

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Speaker 4: and medical personnel say that because of the prolonged starvation

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Speaker 4: of that little girl that she will have permanent brain damage.

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Speaker 1: Permanent brain damage caused by starvation. Joining me, Virginia Bagbee,

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Speaker 1: Director of Child Help, National child abuse hotline Child Help Virginia,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Many people don't know

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Speaker 1: that starving a child can result in permanent brain damage.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen anything like it before, Virginia.

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Speaker 5: We have definitely heard about cases like this, and they

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Speaker 5: happen all too often.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowned, Chief Medical Examiner, Terran County. That's fort worth,

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Speaker 1: never a lack of business. He is the esteemed lecturer

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Speaker 1: at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU and has

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Speaker 1: just launched a hit podcast, Mayhem in the More. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendle Crowns, thank you for being with us. I know

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Speaker 1: that you heard this, but let me repeat it again.

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Speaker 1: A seven year old little girl barricaded in a locked

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Speaker 1: bedroom closet lot from the outside soiled. A seven year

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Speaker 1: old weighing just twenty nine pounds, confined to a three

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Speaker 1: by two foot closet, she is being given at most

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Speaker 1: one corn dog and a half cup of water a day.

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Speaker 1: She is now suffering permanent, moderate to severe cerebral atrophy

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Speaker 1: from prolonged malnutrition. The dock states she will never recover.

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Speaker 1: Could you interpret that please?

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Speaker 6: Certainly? Not being given much food or water. I mean

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Speaker 6: a corn dog and a cup of water is not

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Speaker 6: much for a child or anybody for that matter. Her

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Speaker 6: body is losing its depleting its muscle, depleting its stores,

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Speaker 6: so her muscles are wasting away, her bones are starting

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Speaker 6: to not form properly, and she's being starved. And part

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Speaker 6: of being starve results in your cardiac muscle or your

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Speaker 6: heart muscle mass starting to also fade away or go away,

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Speaker 6: which reduces your heart's ability to pump your blood, which

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Speaker 6: results in your kidney's failing and you go into kidney failure.

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Speaker 6: You also start having gut issues as well, and this

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Speaker 6: can all affect your brain and your brain's development, especially

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Speaker 6: in a child. So all those factors combined will result

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Speaker 6: in her having these issues that the doctors are describing.

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Speaker 1: Nonder general crowns, a child of seven years old should

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Speaker 1: weigh around seventy pounds forty five to seventy pounds, Is

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Speaker 1: that right?

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Speaker 6: Yes, that would be about the average pit of a

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Speaker 6: child at seven.

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Speaker 1: A seven year old average. Of course, they grow in

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Speaker 1: different ways. The average is fifty one pounds for a

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Speaker 1: seven year old child, but it ranges from forty three

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Speaker 1: to seventy So where would you place twenty nine pounds

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Speaker 1: in that spectrum? Twenty nine pounds if a seven year

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Speaker 1: old can weigh up to seventy three, she's not even

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Speaker 1: half the weight of a seven year old.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the weight you're describing as a severely malnourished child,

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Speaker 6: So she's been starved for a prolonged period of time.

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Speaker 1: How does that make a child brain damaged?

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Speaker 6: It's from the body shutting down, the lack of food,

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Speaker 6: the lack of loss of muscle mass, the heart muscle

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Speaker 6: mass being lost and not circulating properly, the organs aren't

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Speaker 6: getting enough oxy genated blood, and of course the brain's

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Speaker 6: part of this, so the brain's not getting proper oxygenation. Also,

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Speaker 6: the brain relies on glucose or sugars to grow and develop,

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Speaker 6: and it's not getting that as well, So the brain

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Speaker 6: is basically maldeveloped, not getting enough oxygen, so you get

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Speaker 6: brain damage.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, isn't it true that a child weighing twenty

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Speaker 1: nine pounds typically, and I'm basing this on charts of

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Speaker 1: statistics that I prepared, is typically a twenty two month

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Speaker 1: old child at twenty nine pounds.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I would be correct.

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Speaker 1: A seven year old little girl, doctor Tyndall Crowns, that

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Speaker 1: should weigh seventy one pounds fifty one to seventy one

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Speaker 1: pounds weighs twenty nine pounds. With a child starving, what

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Speaker 1: would she be enduring on the floor of that locked closet,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns.

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Speaker 6: She would be the enduring infusion, dehydration or a very

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Speaker 6: dry mouth or throat. It be dry, She'd have trouble swallowing,

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Speaker 6: She'd be very tired and just not able to even move.

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Speaker 6: And then you would add on to that the fact

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Speaker 6: that without the food she'd start hallucinating and then eventually

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Speaker 6: just slip into a coma and finally die.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jendal Crowns. Would the child lose her hair? I

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Speaker 1: know that she's losing all muscle tone. Would she be

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Speaker 1: losing her hair? Would her faculties or hearing her sight?

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Speaker 1: Would that be intact? And what would her brain function

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Speaker 1: be lying on the floor of a dark closet starving.

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Speaker 6: So yes, hair often will fall out in individuals who

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Speaker 6: are starved. Her brain function would be very minimal. She'd

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Speaker 6: be confused, even possibly hallucinating. And just completely fatigued and

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Speaker 6: not even feeling like moving.

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Speaker 1: Is it true? Doctor General Crowns that when someone has

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Speaker 1: been starved of prolonged period of time, is in this case,

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Speaker 1: when you give them food they can't even eat it.

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Speaker 6: Yes, you can have what is called if you give

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Speaker 6: a person who's been starved, you feed them too quickly,

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Speaker 6: you can have what is called refeeding syndrome, where they

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Speaker 6: actually will from the food intake. It will cause so

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Speaker 6: much of a shock to their body that they can die.

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Speaker 1: Guys, When police show up to a home, they find

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Speaker 1: six children and then a seventh locked in a closet

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Speaker 1: weighing just twenty nine pounds, but ironically amazingly listen to

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Speaker 1: the condition of the other six children.

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Speaker 3: Six other children in the apartment, ranging in age from

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Speaker 3: two to fourteen years old, are found to be an

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Speaker 3: apparently good physical condition. The apartment's pantry, refrigerator in freezer

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Speaker 3: are stocked with various food items. The oldest children were

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Speaker 3: given strict orders to put the little girl in the

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Speaker 3: closet because she had bladder can issues and she was

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Speaker 3: trying to eat things she wasn't supposed to. During the investigation,

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Speaker 3: police learn there's an eighth child, Ava Marie, who is

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Speaker 3: not in the home with the other children.

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Speaker 1: We've got one starved child who has permanent brain damage.

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Speaker 1: A seven year old little girl weighing twenty nine pounds

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Speaker 1: locked in the closet. Now I've got a missing child too.

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Speaker 1: But to doctor angel Arnold joining me, renowned psychiatrist out

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Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction at ANGELA Arnold MD dot com,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angie, thank you for being with us. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear what was just reported that there were six other

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Speaker 1: children in the home seemingly healthy, and they were encouraged

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Speaker 1: to keep the little girl locked in a closet, starving

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Speaker 1: her because the little girl would eat things she wasn't

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Speaker 1: supposed to eat. You know what, doctor Angie, I've heard

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Speaker 1: every excuse in the book about why parents starve the children. Oh,

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Speaker 1: the child ate a candy bar, I'll starve it. The

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Speaker 1: child eats too much, I'll starve it. The child has behaved,

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Speaker 1: I'll starve it. I mean, there are a million excuses

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Speaker 1: I have heard as to why moms and dads starve

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Speaker 1: the baby dead. But yet we see six other children

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Speaker 1: seemingly healthy, And.

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Speaker 7: This is oftentimes what we do see in cases like this, Nancy,

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Speaker 7: So I the other children need to be taken care

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Speaker 7: of as well as this goes on, because they have

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Speaker 7: been suffering something called Stockholm syndrome. They want to They

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Speaker 7: are so scared of the abuse that they see being

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Speaker 7: heaped on this other child that they that they go

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Speaker 7: into it with their mother literally to protect themselves. Okay,

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Speaker 7: because Nancy, imagine how scared these other children are. They

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Speaker 7: never know who's going to be next to be locked

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Speaker 7: in that closet. So they're going to listen to the mama.

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Speaker 7: They're going to do what she says. And I think

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Speaker 7: that they could probably also psychologically sort of break off

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Speaker 7: from from feeling towards the child that is being locked

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Speaker 7: in the closet so that they can protect themselves. Because

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Speaker 7: this is chaos that this family is living in. It

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Speaker 7: is complete and utter chaos, and all of those other

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Speaker 7: children are suffering. They may not be brain dead, brain damaged.

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Speaker 7: Excuse me, they are not being you know, they're not

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Speaker 7: being starved, but they are also being damaged by this

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Speaker 7: so called mother of theirs.

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Speaker 8: A missing child case takes a dark turn after a

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Speaker 8: disturbing discovery inside a family home.

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Speaker 1: It brings to mind the case of another seven year

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Speaker 1: old child, Adrian Jones, there wise just handed down a

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Speaker 1: multimillion dollar verdict against the state of Kentucky. Adrian Jones

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Speaker 1: was systematically starved, forced by his mother and father to

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Speaker 1: watch the rest of the family eight. They would put

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Speaker 1: bars of soap in his mouth while everyone else ate

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Speaker 1: forced him to stand outside, chin deep in a pool

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Speaker 1: until finally the boy died. They killed the boy. Listen.

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Speaker 3: Former bailbondsman Michael Jones is awarding custody of his son,

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Speaker 3: Adrian Jones, and takes the boy away from his mother.

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Speaker 3: For the next four years, Adrian is regularly starved, rudely beaten,

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Speaker 3: tortured taste, and locked in a shower naked for months.

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Speaker 3: Adrian's brothers and sisters do not suffer the same fate.

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Speaker 3: Adrian is singled out by his father and stepmother. When

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Speaker 3: the child dies, Michael Jones buys two pigs and doesn't

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Speaker 3: feed them while the Adrian's body is left in the

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Speaker 3: shower for two weeks. When the pigs are starving, Michael

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Speaker 3: Jones feeds his son to the pigs. Michael and Heather

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Speaker 3: Jones pleaded guilty to first yeary murder and are serving

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Speaker 3: twenty five years to life.

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Speaker 1: So in one closet, we've got the child starved and

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Speaker 1: a missing child. And back to you, doctor Anngie Arnold,

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Speaker 1: you said the other siblings are gonna have to be

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Speaker 1: in treatment. You're right, because they didn't just watch their

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Speaker 1: sister starve slowly to death. They were forced to keep

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Speaker 1: her in the closet themselves. They're going to go the

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Speaker 1: rest of their lives thinking they starved their sister and

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Speaker 1: now she's got permanent brain damage. Antie, that's exactly correct, Nancy.

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Speaker 7: These children have been abused in a different way, and

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Speaker 7: it's all for a matter of control. It's to keep

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Speaker 7: all of those children in control, Nancy, because you know,

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Speaker 7: you can only imagine there's one mother all of these children.

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Speaker 7: If somebody got old enough to decide, you know, we

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Speaker 7: really shouldn't be treating this person them this way, they

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Speaker 7: can possibly escape or something like this, right, But that

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Speaker 7: mother is making sure that they are so terrified. They

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Speaker 7: are so terrified in the home that they live in,

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Speaker 7: and she and she feeds them so that they have

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Speaker 7: this odd relationship where with the mother where they still

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Speaker 7: need her, but they're scared of her, so that none

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Speaker 7: of them will go against her to.

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Speaker 1: Brown Blake joining US agent, professor of University Texas School

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Speaker 1: of Law, Chief Legal officer Texas Advocacy Project, Brown, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. I've seen it many many times,

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Speaker 1: like in Adrian Jones, like in this case, for one

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Speaker 1: child out of the whole group is singled out and

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Speaker 1: they're the ones that starved. That child is the one

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Speaker 1: that's abused. I don't understand the phenomena, but I accept

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Speaker 1: it because I've seen it over and over, even cases

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Speaker 1: that prosecuted other children would go unscathed while the one

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Speaker 1: child would end up dead.

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Speaker 9: The idea that abuse is all about power and control

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Speaker 9: really helps explain this dynamic. This person is not out

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Speaker 9: of control. They're being very calculated and systematic in who

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Speaker 9: they abuse and how so all of those children experienced abuse,

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Speaker 9: just in different ways.

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Speaker 1: Guys. Not only do we have a child starved your death,

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Speaker 1: languishing on the floor of a locked closet, we have

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Speaker 1: a missing child. Listen.

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Speaker 2: During the investigation, police discovered that there was an eighth

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Speaker 2: child who was not found inside the home. The missing

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Speaker 2: nine year old child was identified as Ava Marie Gonzalez.

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Speaker 2: Missing Persons detectives determined that Ava was last seen in

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Speaker 2: December twenty seventeen, when she was two years old and

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Speaker 2: in the custody of her mother, Virginia Marie Gonzalez.

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Speaker 3: Learning there should be eight children in the apartment, not

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Speaker 3: just the seven they found, police opened an investigation and

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Speaker 3: quickly determined Ava Marie has not been seen by family

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Speaker 3: or friends since she was two years old in twenty

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Speaker 3: seventeen in custody of her mother, Virginia Gonzalez. Considering the

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Speaker 3: condition of Ava's seven year old sister when she was found,

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Speaker 3: Austin police detectives are very concerned about Ava's welfare.

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Speaker 1: So they've got six children seemingly healthy, you've got one

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Speaker 1: child starved locked in a closet, and now you've got

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Speaker 1: a missing child. Joining me is a special guest. This

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Speaker 1: is Leanne Marie, friend of the children's mother, Virginia Gonzalez. Leanne,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, Yes, ma'am, Leanne Marie.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about Virginia Gonzalez.

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Speaker 10: So from what I know, she was just a normal person.

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Speaker 11: I mean, honestly, she never really had her kids with her,

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Speaker 11: like you know, presence the only one that I seen

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Speaker 11: with her in the past year was the oldest one,

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Speaker 11: the fourteen year old.

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Speaker 10: Besides that, we never knew that she had, you know,

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Speaker 10: the little girl. We only knew of boys.

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Speaker 11: So she was just a typical person, partying out in

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Speaker 11: the clubs and the bars. I mean, she she was

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Speaker 11: just she never lived like she even had nine eight

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Speaker 11: nine kids.

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Speaker 10: Very very you're scaring me.

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Speaker 1: Now there's mommy, Hi mom, Yeah, but there she is.

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Speaker 1: Party down mom. Where are your children right now? William

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Speaker 1: Marine just said something that scared me? Okay, hold on,

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Speaker 1: So I know that there are six children in the home,

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Speaker 1: healthy ish, one starved in a closet, and one missing.

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Speaker 1: That's eight. But you mentioned nine. The possibility of a

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Speaker 1: ninth child, yes, ma'am, very ninth child.

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Speaker 11: Yes, So it's right now they're saying that this night child,

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Speaker 11: he is not he does not have a social social

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Speaker 11: security here in Texas, so he's not registered here in Texas.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Darryl Parker, I need you and I need you

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Speaker 1: now there's another missing child. Did you hear that? Darryl Parker,

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Speaker 1: former Lieutenant Fannin County Sheriff's Office, former marine, former Texas

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Speaker 1: police officer, helped me. So we're learning right now that

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Speaker 1: there's a ninth child that's in the wind. Nobody knows

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Speaker 1: how old the child is, where it is, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a Texas Social Security number.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, Nancy, that's pretty concerning. I know that the mom

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Speaker 12: has already made several statements to police that are inconsistent

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Speaker 12: about the child that is missing already that they already

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Speaker 12: know about. And it'll be interesting to see if some

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Speaker 12: follow up questioning can reveal anything about this ninth child.

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Speaker 12: Possible ninth child.

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Speaker 1: Virginia Bagby joining us from Child Help National Abuse Hotline

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Speaker 1: going into this right now. I knew that there were

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Speaker 1: eight children, six in the home, one starve near death

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Speaker 1: with brain damage, and one missing since twenty seventeen. Now

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing about child number nine. Is that child dead?

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you do when you get a

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Speaker 1: call like this the Child Help hotline?

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Speaker 5: Well, this is a really difficult one.

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Speaker 1: I would encourage.

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Speaker 5: Somebody to reach out to the local hospitals potentially where

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Speaker 5: all the other children have been born, to see if

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Speaker 5: they have any record. This is very concerning to have

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Speaker 5: two children missing. Now these other children have probably are

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Speaker 5: aware that they have siblings that are missing. Add that

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Speaker 5: to the terror. They've been experiencing.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 8: A shocking discovery inside a home leads police to investigate

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Speaker 8: a long buried secret.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Liam Marie is joining U. A friend of the mom,

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Speaker 1: Virginia Gonzales MS murray, thank you because what you've just

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Speaker 1: said could save a child's life. Yes, However, do you

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Speaker 1: know Leanne is the ninth child older younger girl.

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Speaker 11: Boy, it's a boy and he is around age nine

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Speaker 11: to ten years old. So she has a fourteen, an eleven,

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Speaker 11: A ten, A nine, A seven.

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Speaker 10: I know she has two three year olds the newborn.

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Speaker 10: So there's there's there's nine. From what I'm hearing right now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, let me have this up. There's a

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old, an eleven year old, a ten year old,

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Speaker 1: A nine year old is the boy that you think

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Speaker 1: is missing? A seven year old is a little girl

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Speaker 1: starved in the closet? Two three year old? Ok one, two, three, four, five, six,

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Speaker 1: seven eight, I'm missing somebody fourteen, eleven, ten nine missed

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Speaker 1: a three and three and a kneeborn. What now?

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Speaker 11: So Eva's around eight nine years old and then the

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Speaker 11: little boys right after her eleven months difference.

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Speaker 1: You stated that Virginia Gonzales, the mother the starving little

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Speaker 1: girl and the other missing girl, was quote normal would

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Speaker 1: go partying at the clubs and the bars. Hey, I

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Speaker 1: don't have a problem with that party down mommy, But

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Speaker 1: what would she ever mention who was taking care of

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Speaker 1: the children while she's at the bar.

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Speaker 11: So, from what we understand was that the kids, all

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Speaker 11: the kids were left with the grandmother of She has

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Speaker 11: three kids that belonged to one father and they were

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Speaker 11: that was who she was with the past seven years,

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Speaker 11: and so they were supposedly all living with the grandmother.

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Speaker 1: You're seeing mommy now out partying on a boat, drinking

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Speaker 1: straight out of a vodka mini bottle.

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Speaker 6: Oop.

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Speaker 1: There's she is in a bar. Why bother with a glass? Seriously,

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Speaker 1: why who needs a glass when you can drink straight

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Speaker 1: from the bottle. There's mommy chowing down on some free

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Speaker 1: toes and chips on a boat while her twenty nine

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Speaker 1: pound seven year old daughter is locked in a closet

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Speaker 1: at home. Okay, DOCTRINNGI Arnold, I need to shrink because

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Speaker 1: why is she had on a boat partying while her

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Speaker 1: child is starving in a closet and two children are missing, right.

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Speaker 7: And Nancy can she how can she just be so

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Speaker 7: unattached from all of these children that she's having. So

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Speaker 7: my question is why is she having all of these children?

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Speaker 7: And I'm sorry, is it to support her lifestyle? And

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Speaker 7: where are the fathers of these children? We always have

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Speaker 7: to ask where is We're always you know, why isn't

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Speaker 7: the mother taking care of them? Okay, yeah, she is

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Speaker 7: a horrible person that has done horrible things to at

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Speaker 7: least two of her children that know about. Where are

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Speaker 7: the fathers of these children? And why are any of

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Speaker 7: them involved? But Nancy, I don't believe she should be

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Speaker 7: out partying on our boat. I think that when you

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Speaker 7: have children, you should be at home taking care of

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Speaker 7: your children and not relying on someone else to take

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Speaker 7: care of them, because again we don't know how children

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Speaker 7: take that, but oftentimes when mothers are not around, children

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Speaker 7: do since a fear of abandonment when their mother is

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Speaker 7: not taking care of them.

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Speaker 1: But to Ron, when Blake joining us as junct professor

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Speaker 1: University takes as school of law, Rowen, I'm not the

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Speaker 1: church lady. If mom wants to party, go ahead. If

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Speaker 1: mom wants to vape and smoke, have at it. The

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Speaker 1: issue is intent. When she is out partying in her

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Speaker 1: club and bar finery, her child is at home starving

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Speaker 1: and two of them are missing. Now that goes to intent.

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Speaker 1: When I'm trying to prove any child neglect to a jury,

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Speaker 1: that's when that type of video, let's see the video

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Speaker 1: again comes in to play. I couldn't care less what

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Speaker 1: mommy whares or what Barshi goes to. Don't care, But

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Speaker 1: if your child is at home starving in a closet,

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Speaker 1: suddenly your behavior, your actions during that time are relevant.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely. I can tell you're thinking like a prosecutor. The

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Speaker 9: contrast between the images you're showing of these this child

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Speaker 9: and then her mother partying, it tells the whole story there.

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Speaker 9: And unfortunately many of users present one face to some people,

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Speaker 9: can be very charming to some people. And then we

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Speaker 9: hear about these horrible things happening at home too.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kimmel Crown's is joining me, Chief Medical Examiner, Terrant County,

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Speaker 1: that's fort Worth. Doctor Kimmel Crowns. I've got one child

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Speaker 1: starved almost beyond recognition, her bones sticking out, you know,

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Speaker 1: like they're visible through the skin. I've got that child

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Speaker 1: starved almost dead, permanent brain injury. I've got a missing

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Speaker 1: little girl, and now I'm learning from leam Marie there's

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Speaker 1: another boy missing that is about one, two three fourth

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Speaker 1: in the progression line of children. Leam Marie joining us

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Speaker 1: a friend of mom Virginia Gonzales. Did you know that

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Speaker 1: Ava was missing?

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Speaker 10: No, we had no idea.

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Speaker 11: Back in twenty eighteen, when I originally first met Virginia,

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Speaker 11: we only knew of three little boys. So after talking

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Speaker 11: to mutual friends and all concluding that she had Ava's

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Speaker 11: hair shaved like a boy, she never had Ava in

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Speaker 11: her possess. I mean, she never let us know that

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Speaker 11: it was a girl. She had her presented as a

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Speaker 11: boy to all of us, so we were all in shock.

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Speaker 11: We didn't nobody knew that she had Ava.

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Speaker 1: Leanne, I don't understand this. So she showed you Ava,

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Speaker 1: But this is the missing child, not the starving child. Right,

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Speaker 1: you saw Ava, and she had her dressed like a

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Speaker 1: boy with her head shaved.

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Speaker 11: She had her hair, She had him. She had a faid,

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Speaker 11: He had a faid. I definitely confirmed this with her

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Speaker 11: landlord and roommates that she lived.

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Speaker 10: With back in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 11: Everybody concluded that and confirmed that it was a little boy.

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Speaker 10: It was not nobody knew she had a little.

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Speaker 1: Girl, leanne knowing the mother. Why do you think she

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Speaker 1: shaved the little girl's head and passed her off as

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Speaker 1: a boy.

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Speaker 11: I feel like that she had a anger issue with

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Speaker 11: the little girls because of the way her mother treated

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Speaker 11: her back when she was little, and I think that

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Speaker 11: she was taken it out on these little girls because

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Speaker 11: from all the evidence and information that I've collected, it's

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Speaker 11: all based on the girls.

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Speaker 10: So you know, she sold the baby who was a

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Speaker 10: little girl that was just born in March. She starved

435
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 10: a re.

436
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: Reading whoa, whoa, whoa. My head is spinning. What did

437
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: you just say she sold a baby?

438
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 10: Yes, and CPS just found that baby.

439
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: When okay, glads, that's the newborn baby that was just

440
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: born in March, So that baby's been sold. Yes, but

441
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: see how much does she get from the baby?

442
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 10: From what I heard twenty five k.

443
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: Christina Whyo tell me about the newborn baby girl that

444
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: just got sold?

445
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 4: Well, apparently from my investigations online and none of this

446
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: has been confirmed yet, but she did have this newborn

447
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 4: baby and according to all person who says that they

448
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 4: are a close relative of the family. She did have

449
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 4: a newborn baby.

450
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: It was sold to a couple.

451
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 4: So if that is in fact the case, there could

452
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 4: be a possibility that Aban Marigan Solace was also sold,

453
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 4: and that something that will have to be looked into,

454
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 4: because it would be my opic of us to think

455
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 4: that that possibility isn't out there.

456
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: You know what, Christina Ariyah, I can only hope and

457
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: pray that she was sold and that she's alive and

458
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: being treated better than the little seven year old to

459
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: Leanne Marie, a friend of mom Virginia Gonzalez. Why did

460
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: she sell her baby?

461
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 11: I'm guessing financial issues, But at the same time, you know,

462
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 11: all the money was going downtown Sixth Street and at

463
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 11: the strip clubs. I mean, she was just making it

464
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 11: rain with money and buying bottles after bottles and buying

465
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 11: everybody buying the bar out. I mean, that's where I

466
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 11: seen the money going. I didn't see anything.

467
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 10: Else that she had that.

468
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 11: I mean, she didn't even have a vehicle, you know

469
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 11: what I mean. So, I mean I think all the

470
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 11: money was just going to party in I don't think

471
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 11: it was ever to just take care of her and

472
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 11: the rest of the kids.

473
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 10: You know what I mean.

474
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: I noticed in the party video she's got a Gucci

475
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: bags strapped around her front. Was that a fake? Was

476
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: that a fruity? A fake Gucci?

477
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 11: From my understanding, everything that the police found in her

478
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 11: room was everything was name brand. I don't think it

479
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 11: was fake, but I do now know that a video

480
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 11: was taped back in May a year ago. She would

481
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 11: just cover up her stomach. I mean she would, honestly

482
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 11: now that I'm thinking, I'm thinking she was trying to.

483
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 10: Hide the pregnancy. Why because she was out there partying.

484
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 11: I mean on the boat party, which was in September

485
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 11: of twenty twenty four, my birthday. You can see in

486
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 11: the video she was kind of closed. She didn't take

487
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 11: the whole shot. And I got other, you know, videos

488
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 11: of footage of her putting the shots on the side

489
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 11: when people weren't watching. So I think she knew she

490
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 11: was pregnant, but she just didn't want the other the

491
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 11: world to know that she was pregnant. So she would

492
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,239
Speaker 11: literally buy bottles, get everybody drunk, and guess what, then

493
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 11: nobody notices anything.

494
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: Lean question, did she discuss openly that she was selling

495
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: the baby?

496
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 10: No, no, ma'am.

497
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 11: I found that out through the one of the children's families,

498
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 11: the ones that I've been speaking with since the very

499
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 11: beginning of the case, when it first started getting investigated.

500
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: Do you know who she sold the baby too?

501
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 10: I do not know them personally. I just know that

502
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 10: it was a couple.

503
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: Well, I am why did she keep having children if

504
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: she hated them so much?

505
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 11: I don't think that she was having the children to,

506
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 11: you know, just be this mother and to take care

507
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 11: of them. I think she was living off the benefits

508
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 11: the snap and the EBT and the fathers. I think

509
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 11: that was how she would hold some of these men,

510
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 11: you know, in her life, because a lot of them

511
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 11: didn't deal with the children. They only dealt with her,

512
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 11: And a lot of them didn't want the children, they

513
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 11: just wanted her. So I think that it was like

514
00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 11: the kids were like a tool for the men. You

515
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 11: know how they say there's womenizers. I think she was

516
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 11: like that with the men, like where she idolized men

517
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 11: before her children.

518
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: Did anyone ever wonder who would be taking care of

519
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: the children while she's out partying.

520
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 11: So from my friendship experience with her, she would come

521
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 11: and go, so one minute she was out here popping

522
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 11: bottles for about two or three months, and then she'll

523
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 11: go ghost for six months a year, and then she'll.

524
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 10: Pop out out of nowhere again. So it wasn't really

525
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 10: she was really just screep with the children.

526
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 11: Like I said, I only went to her that apartment

527
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 11: where they found the child that was starving and the

528
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 11: other six children. I only went to that apartment one time,

529
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 11: which was to go pick her up, and she it

530
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 11: was clean. It was the fourteen year old was the

531
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 11: only one there. I didn't ask because every time I

532
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 11: asked about the children, it was that they were with her,

533
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 11: the grandmother, because her baby daddy was, you know, crazy

534
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 11: after her, so she just left the children at him

535
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 11: so he would be calm, is what she would tell us.

536
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 8: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, a shocking discovery inside a

537
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 8: home leads police to investigate a long buried secret.

538
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: So you think that she's having the children in order

539
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: to get state benefits.

540
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 10: I don't think it's just state benefits.

541
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 11: I think, like I said, it's more of a tool

542
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 11: for the men that she was in love with. I mean,

543
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 11: I mean some of them, some of the from what

544
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 11: I'm understanding too, is some of the kids. I mean

545
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 11: she don't even know who the fathers is to some

546
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 11: of the kids. I mean, she was known for being

547
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 11: in the club, you know, with multiple men, So I

548
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 11: mean I don't think that.

549
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 10: She used the children just for the benefits.

550
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 11: I think it was just more of tools to keep

551
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 11: the men in her life to help benefit her with

552
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 11: the money and the pain for this and paying for that.

553
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 10: And that's what I think.

554
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: To Daryl Parker joining me former Lieutenant Fanning County Sheriff's

555
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: Office at Blackfish Intel dot com, Daryl, how do we

556
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: go about finding the two missing children? You've got the

557
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: little girl missing, We've got an eighth progress photo of her.

558
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: You've got her missing. You've got a nine year old

559
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: boy missing. I believe the little newborn girl that was

560
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: sold has been recovered. But how do you go about

561
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: finding the two missing children?

562
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 12: Well, you know, Nancy, I see a lot of parallels

563
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 12: between this case.

564
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 13: And the Kasey Anthony case. And if you recall, the

565
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 13: thing that really bogged down that investigation was Kathy Anthony's

566
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 13: multiple stories where she gave the police all these different

567
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 13: versions of what happened to her child. And so in

568
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 13: this case, I.

569
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 12: Think the mom has given them some inconsistent stories. All

570
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 12: they're going to have to track these down. And this

571
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 12: is over a period of time too. Seven years is

572
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 12: a lot longer period of time than when Kasey Anthony's

573
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 12: child was missing, so it's going to be a lot

574
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 12: more difficult for law enforcement to piece that together.

575
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 13: But she couldn't have done all this without other adults

576
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 13: being aware of what.

577
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 12: Was going on, at least collaterally, So I think there

578
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 12: are going to be some other collateral witnesses that can

579
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 12: help provide some information to try and find the kids,

580
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 12: Rob and Blake.

581
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: I don't understand how the mother can be getting government

582
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: benefits but they're not in school because the government does

583
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: know they exist and they're off school age. How does

584
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: that work.

585
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 9: This is not supposed to happen when you hear a

586
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 9: story like those. Multiple systems have failed. This mother was

587
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 9: purposely not taking her children to school, I'm sure, because

588
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 9: the teachers would have seen something. She's not taking them

589
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 9: to their doctor's appointments because the doctors would have seen something.

590
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 9: Here in Texas, every single adult is a mandatory repporter

591
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 9: of child abuse, not just those professionals I mentioned, neighbors,

592
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 9: family members, if anyone saw something, it's the love that

593
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 9: they had to report it.

594
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: Christina, Wya, what more do you know?

595
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 4: Well, there the woman who is online identifying as a

596
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 4: very close family member.

597
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: She revealed that the newborn baby was sold.

598
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 4: She also was revealing some of the details about what

599
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 4: Virginia was telling each one of the family members. It

600
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 4: kind of lines up with what Virginia Gonzalez's friend was

601
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 4: telling us about the story. She was saying she pitted

602
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 4: the two families against each other. She allegedly told one

603
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 4: family that the kids were in the care of the

604
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 4: other family. Her side of the family told her mom

605
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 4: the same thing, vice versa. This woman also claims that

606
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 4: the father of three of Virginia Gonzalez's children actually took

607
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 4: care of six of the children for two years until

608
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 4: he went to jail, allegedly back in December, and that's

609
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 4: when she's saying that Virginia Gonzalez went and picked up

610
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 4: all the kids. She had kept the fourteen with her

611
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 4: fourteen year old with her originally and then went back

612
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 4: and picked up all the kids. So that was in December,

613
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 4: which means that if she picked up the little seven

614
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 4: year old girl who they are calling re Rea in December.

615
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 4: Then that means that little girl was suffering, most likely

616
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 4: six months of abuse before that nine to one one

617
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 4: call came in and they discovered her in the closet.

618
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 4: So apparently this woman is describing Virginia Gonzalez as very manipulative.

619
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 4: And it's crazy because they also say that she didn't

620
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 4: allow any of the children to go to school, and

621
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 4: there are no records of any of the children being

622
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 4: in school. And as for abram Marie Gonzalez, there's no

623
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 4: medical records, there's no legal records. So this is a

624
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 4: really convoluted case. And if it's true what they're saying

625
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 4: about the baby being sold to a couple, that the

626
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 4: possibility of abram Marie Gonzalez being sold to a couple

627
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 4: is there as well. But it might have been sold

628
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 4: the baby might have been sold to a more nefarious outfit,

629
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 4: which means we could be looking at something concerning child trafficking,

630
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 4: which we hope that's not the case. But either way,

631
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 4: there's a lot of avenues that investigators need to go down,

632
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 4: and there are a lot of leads that they need

633
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 4: to investigate.

634
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: Leam Marie, now that you realize the extent of what

635
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: Virginia Gonzales was doing to her children?

636
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 11: Are you surprised, very I'm very shocked. I'm very disbelief.

637
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 11: I just I can't believe it. I mean, she put

638
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 11: up this image. I would have never, in my rights

639
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 11: say to mind thought that she was starving a kid

640
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 11: or abusing the children like that.

641
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 10: I would have said something.

642
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: To doctor Angela Arnold. How can you present one facade

643
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: to the public and live such a dark private life?

644
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 10: You know what.

645
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 7: Comes that comes from years and years of abuse, Because

646
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 7: people who have been abused learn how to compartmentalize different

647
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 7: things in their life. So this woman, because of the

648
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 7: purported abuse that she experienced as a child, has learned

649
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 7: how to contain the different parts of her life and

650
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 7: separate them. It all stems from her abuse.

651
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding these

652
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: missing children, please dial five one two five seven two

653
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: eight four seven seven repeat five one two, five seven,

654
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: two eight four seven seven. We remember an American hero,

655
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: Chief of Police Stephen Desaio, Kirkersville, PD, Ohio, shot and

656
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: killed in a line of duty. Survived by wife now widow, Aaron, children,

657
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: Olivia Brayden, Grace, Chloe Cameron, and Liliana American Hero Police

658
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: Chief Stephen Desareo. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,