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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas And

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Speaker 1: if all goes according to plan, I will be in

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Speaker 1: China with my wife's collecting our son and uh when

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Speaker 1: this episode airs. So certainly, if you have any positive

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Speaker 1: energy to spare, send it to me because I'll probably

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Speaker 1: be on the on the on the edge during this trip.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it'll be a stressful time, but certainly a

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Speaker 1: worthwhile experience. So during this time, we're going to air

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Speaker 1: just a couple of reruns, but rewinds that we really

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Speaker 1: think deserve a second listen, and so in this episode,

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Speaker 1: we are going to replay our Cannibals episode. Now, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people ended up passing this one

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Speaker 1: by because the original title was finding on Cannibals, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people my wife included, skipped over at

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Speaker 1: it first because I thought we were going to talk

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Speaker 1: about human cannibals, about nefarious individuals eating other individuals and

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Speaker 1: praying on the week. And certainly that is an interesting topic,

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Speaker 1: but a much darker topic because in this episode we

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Speaker 1: focus almost exclusively on insects and arachnets. But I would

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Speaker 1: say that I think actually the sexual cannibalism that goes

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Speaker 1: on here, the ripping off of praying manta's head, is

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Speaker 1: pretty dark stuff. But it's safer because well, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about insects, right, and it comes down to just pure

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Speaker 1: economy as we'll discussing this episode. Yeah, yeah, well we're

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Speaker 1: talking about sibilicide and fantaside and some Dwight shrewdism going on.

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Speaker 1: So we hope that you enjoy this. It is rife

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Speaker 1: with some lovely and awful bits of cannibalism. Robert, I've

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Speaker 1: got a burning question for you, alright, fire off. I

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Speaker 1: would like to know if you have ever tasted huge food.

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Speaker 1: Huge food. I'm not sure I know what that is. Well,

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Speaker 1: I hope that you're going to say now, because because

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Speaker 1: well it's non existent actually, but the first thing, otherwise

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Speaker 1: I would worry a little bit off you said, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's it's actually a spoof product. And it was supposedly

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a soy based food product designed to

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Speaker 1: resemble human flesh and taste and texture, and so the

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Speaker 1: website was up for about a year. MEB two thousand five,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six, and it had all these great

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Speaker 1: products that you just never could buy. So if you wanted,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you were really wanting a finger or

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Speaker 1: an arm or something but didn't necessarily want to cannibalize someone,

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Speaker 1: you could In theory, do they replicate and they replicated

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Speaker 1: the taste or the form, the taste and the texture. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you really get logical about it,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure there's anything that weird about it, not

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Speaker 1: compared to say, well, okay, you're vegetarian, right, yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever have like soysage or like a soy dog,

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Speaker 1: or you know, any kind of fir or whatever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have like meat simulated products. We'll see. Like that

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Speaker 1: seems like, I mean, it's not unlike that you don't

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Speaker 1: want to actually eat meat, but you're okay with something that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And yet there's a disconnect because sometimes when I pull

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Speaker 1: out a piece of what's supposed to be bacon and

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Speaker 1: I look at it and it's a little disconcerting because

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Speaker 1: I'm frying up the bacon, and yet I don't eat bacon,

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Speaker 1: and I don't necessarily want bacon, but I do have

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Speaker 1: to say, there is that that bacon taste that you

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Speaker 1: can never really replicate. Yeah, well even if you're but

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Speaker 1: I guess even if you're frying up some soy bacon,

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Speaker 1: it is going to look like bacon and not say

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Speaker 1: like a pig's face. Like you can't get a soy

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Speaker 1: pig face, right, Maybe you can. Maybe it's it's going

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Speaker 1: to be a small market that may actually carry that.

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Speaker 1: They do some pretty funky stuff with it. So this,

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Speaker 1: you know, in discussing like why is this creepy? And

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Speaker 1: this not you know, uh with the with the HOOFU.

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Speaker 1: I mean that really comes down to the basic question

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Speaker 1: about cannibalism in in nature as a whole, because it's

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things when you really look at it,

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Speaker 1: there's kind of like the animal version and then well

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Speaker 1: there's really only the animal version. Yes, well, but but

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Speaker 1: on top of the animal version, um, and this is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, as cannibalism relates to just any kind of

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Speaker 1: creature you might find might find that practices it, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of animals practice it. Um. If you layer

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Speaker 1: human culture and human society and our complex web of

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Speaker 1: emotions and values on top of that, it just really

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Speaker 1: complicates the matter and you get into this this area

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Speaker 1: where cannibalism is really this. I mean, it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's an outrageous thing. It's like it raises outrage

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Speaker 1: from people for us to would like to think that

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Speaker 1: we have morals and uh, social values and we all

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Speaker 1: cooperate with each other, we try not to eat each

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Speaker 1: other humans. Yeah. Yeah, I found this great quote from

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Speaker 1: Tom Sorel from the University of Birmingham and he said, quote,

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Speaker 1: in intellectual history, cannibals stand for alien and exotic human being,

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Speaker 1: specimens of our species who realize it's the darkest possibilities,

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Speaker 1: usually in places far removed from civilization cannibalism. Cannibalism both

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Speaker 1: expresses natural law and and contravenes it. So right, so

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Speaker 1: there that there's the rub right, yeah, and it happens

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Speaker 1: in nature and it's perfectly natural. They're right, and yet

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Speaker 1: we can't help but WinCE a little bit. Yeah. You

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Speaker 1: here that you know, if you start hearing that somebody's

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Speaker 1: like certain grinding up corpses, you know, to serving the restaurant,

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Speaker 1: people just get outraged. There's a great money Python skit

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Speaker 1: where it involves like grinding up corpses and and and

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Speaker 1: feeding it to people, and it's like the they break

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Speaker 1: the fourth wall and like the the audience just starts

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Speaker 1: throwing things. You know. It's it's it's that outrageous a concept, right, right,

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Speaker 1: you want to know where your meat pie came from? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very like say, it's very widespread in the animal kingdom,

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Speaker 1: and it is a major mortality factor in the biology

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Speaker 1: of numerous species. So we're going to sort of walk

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Speaker 1: through the We're not really gonna go with pros and cons,

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Speaker 1: but first of us, we're gonna look at the case

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Speaker 1: for cannibalism in nature and some of the ways that

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Speaker 1: it's practiced, and then then we're gonna look at the

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Speaker 1: case against And for the most part, we're gonna avoid

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Speaker 1: the whole question of cannibalism um within the larger human institution.

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Speaker 1: But we do have an excellent article on the website

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Speaker 1: by Josh Clark about that, so I highly recommend checking

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Speaker 1: that out if you want to get more into the

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Speaker 1: you know, the serial killer cannibal topics, right and no

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Speaker 1: cannibalism all the different types of cannibalism that exists. All right, So, um,

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Speaker 1: the big thing for me when I when I was

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Speaker 1: researching this is it a lot of it really comes

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Speaker 1: down to energy, right, because if you're an organism on

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Speaker 1: this planet, unless you're a plant that's generating a lot

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Speaker 1: of its energy from photo through photo since this um

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Speaker 1: and even that, you're not not all the energies necessarily

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Speaker 1: coming from the Sun. But for the rest of us,

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Speaker 1: we're having to consume other little bundles of energy to

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Speaker 1: to keep our energy going. So we're having to eat

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Speaker 1: other organisms. Now we might we might not eat um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we might only eat plants, or we might

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Speaker 1: only eat animals, but we're having to eat something. So

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Speaker 1: it's this constant. This is huge pyramid you know of

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Speaker 1: of predators preying on other forms of energy. And even bugs.

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Speaker 1: Let's not discount bugs. Some people eat bugs and they

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Speaker 1: like them quite a bit. Well, they're supposedly quite good.

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Speaker 1: I've never had one. Have you had a bug? No? No,

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Speaker 1: But it's I think it's a street food Vietnam. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: suppose there was supposedly some in Thailand. I didn't get

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Speaker 1: to try it when I was there. Ye supposed to

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Speaker 1: be incredibly nutritious. Yeah, I tried if I if I

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Speaker 1: had the chance, But it's never offered on you know,

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Speaker 1: the local menus. No, you're Nelanta where the palm outa

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Speaker 1: bug salads? I don't know, you'll have to start a

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Speaker 1: food truck based on that. So, like we said, the

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Speaker 1: it all comes down to energy, it comes down to predation,

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Speaker 1: and cannibalism is basically a pet predator prey interaction within

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Speaker 1: a species. So it's well a member of this species

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Speaker 1: preying on a member of another of the same species. So,

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Speaker 1: like you know, when you get into the discussions of

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Speaker 1: odd did you know humans eat the handerthals and deniahnderthals

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Speaker 1: eat humans. That's not really cannibalism. It's kind of creepy,

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Speaker 1: but it's still it's it would be two different species

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Speaker 1: eating each other or one you know, that's that's a

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Speaker 1: whole separate podcast there. Okay, but like me eating you

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Speaker 1: same species? Right, yeah, don't worry, but let's hope it

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Speaker 1: doesn't come to that, right. So there are different types

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Speaker 1: of cannibalism, right, So there's um something called sibilicide. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is the most commonly seen in the sand tiger

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Speaker 1: shark um and this is a situation where the animal

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Speaker 1: has to uteri and each one produces a number of eggs,

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Speaker 1: and but each each litteral yields just two pups, one

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Speaker 1: for each udreus. Okay, so there's some competitiveness there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: these the little embryos have embryonic teeth. So you have

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Speaker 1: all these little you know, unborn brothers and sisters in there,

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Speaker 1: and it's, uh, it's kind of like a It's like

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Speaker 1: each one is like a battle royale of you know,

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Speaker 1: who's going to be the toughest. So it's slay just

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, chopped down on each other. And

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Speaker 1: the end of it, you have one shark pup left standing.

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Speaker 1: Huh okay, and so they're hungry, they've got teeth. Um.

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Speaker 1: It actually reminds me of Dwight Shrewt from the Office. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever watch I do watch it.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember the quote. Yeah, he said that he

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Speaker 1: actually absorbed his own twin brother, so he therefore had

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Speaker 1: the strength of a man and a baby. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: I guess it would be like the Dwight Shoots of

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Speaker 1: the animal world. Yeah, yeah, you could. You could think

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Speaker 1: of this as the shoot factor. So so the so

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Speaker 1: these two uh stantire sharks end up emerging with the

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Speaker 1: strength with it, with a very like veracity to help them,

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Speaker 1: you know, ensure their survival. Yeah, approximately fourteen species are

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Speaker 1: of shark or thought to practice some form of this cannibalism,

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Speaker 1: but the santiger shark is the It's the one that

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Speaker 1: we've studied the most and we have the most down on. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things to keep in mind

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Speaker 1: about procreation in the animal kingdom is that, especially sexual reproduction,

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Speaker 1: it's like a huge energy um uh waste, not necessarily waste,

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Speaker 1: but let's say instant investment, a huge investment because just

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Speaker 1: look at humans for instance, think of all the energy

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Speaker 1: that goes into sexual selection, you know, whole products, you know,

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Speaker 1: people especially. You know, how much time do teenagers waste

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Speaker 1: on sexual selection? Enormous amount of time. They don't know

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Speaker 1: how they get anything done, and how do they study?

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Speaker 1: I know, apparently they don't, but I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: guess they do. But anyway, energy for the sex act itself,

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Speaker 1: then there's then on the mother's part, there's the energy

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Speaker 1: to bring the offspring to term, the energy to give birth,

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Speaker 1: and then the energy to raise the child till it

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Speaker 1: can fend for itself. Because the genetic mission is basically

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Speaker 1: create another, um, you know, another creature, replicate your DNA,

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Speaker 1: replicate the DNA, keep that strand of DNA going, and

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Speaker 1: then you know, put this new product on the market

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Speaker 1: and let it, you know, carry on on its own, right, Right,

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Speaker 1: It's all these niceties like playing it um, you know,

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Speaker 1: mose art in the uterus aren't necessarily their focus, right,

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Speaker 1: just get it out there, get it going. But you know,

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Speaker 1: in a way it's like make sure it's like the best,

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Speaker 1: you know, the best possible. Uh. And instead of eating

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Speaker 1: of the sharks in the womb, is you know, potentially

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Speaker 1: listening to Mozar, right yeah? So um, I also like

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Speaker 1: to think of think of this in terms of of

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Speaker 1: like a business, like if if how stuff works, sort

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Speaker 1: of launch like a like some sort of separate entity

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, um, how crabs work or something

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Speaker 1: like we're gonna do a site is just about crabs,

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Speaker 1: and we're like, this is gonna be it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: like how stuff works, except it's only gonna focus on crabs.

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Speaker 1: Is we would be kind of like the company's offspring, right,

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Speaker 1: so be like all crabs all the time, crab fashions,

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Speaker 1: crab recipes, crab science, but the but the but the

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Speaker 1: existing business has a certain amount of energy already tied

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Speaker 1: out into it. That's a number of employees, right, So

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Speaker 1: let's say, well, okay, we're gonna have one one employee

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Speaker 1: go out to be the editor of this new side,

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Speaker 1: and another to be the writer, another to be the

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Speaker 1: marketing guide, another to be the you know, the programmer, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: All the things that can make it what it is

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Speaker 1: and it has to and where it's like forming this

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Speaker 1: new entity of itself. Right, So it's this this huge

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Speaker 1: energy and h this huge energy investment, and if that

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Speaker 1: doesn't work, then one of two things are going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Either all those people are gonna lose their jobs or

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Speaker 1: they're going to be absorbed back into the parent company,

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Speaker 1: or at least that's my my understands, they're gonna be shrewded. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be shrewded. So that leads us to another

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Speaker 1: type of cannibalism that's pretty calm, really very common, and

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Speaker 1: that's the eating of one's own young, which again is

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Speaker 1: one of these kind of like terrifying type of things.

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Speaker 1: There's the classic image, is it Chronus the god? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: eating his own son, I think so yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: like then I'm I'm a little shaky in this particular

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Speaker 1: story from mythology, but there's a famous painting of it,

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Speaker 1: and there's I think Zeus like was able to like

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Speaker 1: somebody snug Zeus away by putting a rock in there

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Speaker 1: so that so that he would eat the rock instead

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Speaker 1: of baby Zeus, of course, because Zeus was all about

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Speaker 1: killing the young, his young. Yeah, so um So anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's it's another sort of terrifying idea. You know that

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Speaker 1: the oh my goodness, the mother is the lifebringer and

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Speaker 1: then you know, and if you've ever had hamsters or

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Speaker 1: or any other you know, kind of animal like that

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Speaker 1: that ends up killing it's young and or eating them,

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Speaker 1: it can be kind of a terrifying moment. But it

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Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense from an energy standpoint, right,

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Speaker 1: from a survival basic Yeah. There, you know, there's energy

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Speaker 1: has been expanded to create these uh, these new creatures

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Speaker 1: and their calories wrapped up in them, so you bring

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Speaker 1: them back into the fold, right right, Okay, Well I'm

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Speaker 1: actually thinking too, um sort of related to that, there's

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Speaker 1: the masked booby, which is air. Yes, I knew it.

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Speaker 1: I knew I couldn't just say masked booby, Yeah you've

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Speaker 1: got you can run these Yeah, I've got to give

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Speaker 1: you a hint there. But um, okay, So getting that aside,

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Speaker 1: the masked booby is actually a bird and it's indigenous

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Speaker 1: to the Galopico silence. And uh, that's a case where

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Speaker 1: the parents it's a case of stib eating right there.

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Speaker 1: There are two siblings, um, but that's a case where

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Speaker 1: the parents actually step in and they encourage them to

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Speaker 1: kill one of the other off. Yeah, and they actually

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Speaker 1: that the odds are stacked, um in favor of their eldest.

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Speaker 1: So it's sort of like a kid to getting them

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Speaker 1: into a match and seemed like a can fight and

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Speaker 1: seeing who's going to come out best. And the reason

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Speaker 1: for that is the very same, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: you want to put all your effort into the sibling

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Speaker 1: that's going to survive and has the best chance of

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Speaker 1: carrying on. It's I mean, it sounds harsh, but so

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Speaker 1: anybody out there that is in kind of a blue

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Speaker 1: family type situation where they feel like their mom and

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Speaker 1: or dad are stirring competition, uh, just be glad that

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Speaker 1: they're not encouraging you to kill and eat each other.

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Speaker 1: Be glad that you're not a masked pooby. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: but just to give you an idea of how many

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Speaker 1: different animals engage in this, and it's also you also

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Speaker 1: see uh. For instance, sharks will practice um uh the eating.

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Speaker 1: They'll end up eating eggs that haven't been fertilized. Um.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes the eggs will be eating that have been fertilized.

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Speaker 1: But you'll see you'll see this form of catabalism in protozoa,

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Speaker 1: sly molds, sea slugs, insects, spiders, fish, reptiles. They've they've

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Speaker 1: observed it in dinosaur fossils, um bats, seals, sea lions, otters,

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Speaker 1: polar bears, even otters, Yes, the cute little otters. Imagine one,

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Speaker 1: you know, cannibalizing another. It's we're eating it's young. It happens.

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Speaker 1: It never shows up in the cute pictures. But tigers, chimpanzees,

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Speaker 1: you know, amphibians, at least a hundred species of mammals

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Speaker 1: and all, and of course hamsters well yeah, yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: most known for it. Don't tap on the glass, which

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Speaker 1: leads us to the some of the reasons. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: why would a mother hamster suddenly decide that she needs

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Speaker 1: to slay all her offspring and eat some of them.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe she had way too many and

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Speaker 1: that's too much energy to expand on abroad that big. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like, if you, you know, to use

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Speaker 1: the sort of clunky business analogy from earlier, it's like,

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Speaker 1: if you suddenly created this enormous side project with way

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Speaker 1: too many employees, You're like, WHOA, this is gonna fail.

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Speaker 1: This doesn't make it make sense. It's not gonna bring

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Speaker 1: in enough money on its own to support that, So

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Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta bring some, if not all, of

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Speaker 1: these employees back into the fold. Yeah. Yeah, and some

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Speaker 1: of them too if they're if they're born with um

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Speaker 1: a disease or they're not quite up to part Isn't

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Speaker 1: that another reason that sort of call down the broad

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Speaker 1: is to take out the ones that are the weakest

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Speaker 1: and and use them for energy for everybody else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like a female rattlesnakes, for instance, will consume on average

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Speaker 1: about of their postpartum math um. Mostly these are going

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Speaker 1: to be still born or just non viable offspring. So again,

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Speaker 1: it's like they have all these offspring, it's all about like,

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Speaker 1: let's keep the species going, let's keep the DNA going.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna want to invest in the ones that are

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Speaker 1: the best candidates. I mean, you know, it's disgusting to us,

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Speaker 1: but it really is practical if you think about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you take the anthropomorphic nests out of it, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it's the basics, the basic mission,

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Speaker 1: the genetic mission, and the the the energy logic tied

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Speaker 1: to it. And you if you strip away all the

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Speaker 1: layers that human culture has put on top of it,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, it's it makes perfect sense, you know, just

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Speaker 1: as a as a side observation or question. I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about this, and I was thinking about mammals who

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Speaker 1: eat their placentas after birth, and I'm wondering if they

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Speaker 1: ever cannibalize they're young, if maybe eating carried well No,

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if maybe the eating the placenta actually um

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Speaker 1: serves the need of of eating some sort of protein

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Speaker 1: and getting some energy source back, and and instead of

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Speaker 1: eating their young, they eat I think would make it

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Speaker 1: would make perfect sense. I don't know. I that's a question.

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Speaker 1: If anybody knows the answer to that that I would

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Speaker 1: love to know. Um. Another great example of this comes

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Speaker 1: in innovasive cane toads in Australia. And these are just

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Speaker 1: some These are some some crazy animals because you'll have

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Speaker 1: a small and medium size but not large cane toads

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Speaker 1: and they'll wave a long middle toe off their hindslet

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Speaker 1: up and down in the water and they're doing this

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Speaker 1: to to to catch other toads. And then the cane

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Speaker 1: toad larvae will actively seek out toad eggs of the

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Speaker 1: same species to eat. So there's just like a lot

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Speaker 1: of cannibals and going on in cane totes in fact um.

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Speaker 1: And again they're invasive and they're a huge problem in Australia.

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Speaker 1: And uh they they found a two thousand tents study

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Speaker 1: found that this was actually uh encouraging them to spread,

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Speaker 1: because a mother toad would end up, you know, wanting

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Speaker 1: to lay her eggs in a virgin um a pond

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Speaker 1: or or a little stream or whatever just to encourage

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Speaker 1: just just to protect it from other cane toads. So

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Speaker 1: it's like you know, your it just ends up. You know,

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Speaker 1: we gotta find new water, new water to uh for

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Speaker 1: these eggs to developments so they're not eaten by all

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Speaker 1: the other cane totes. But they think that that they

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Speaker 1: might be able to to draw the chemical that the

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Speaker 1: eggs shed, that that that attracts the other cane toads,

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Speaker 1: and use that as some sort of a bait. It's

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Speaker 1: like a pheromone or something. Yeah, yeah, it's similar to that.

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Speaker 1: I just can't get over the image of like all

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Speaker 1: these toes pointing over the water like super nice swimmers. Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: that's happening. All right, We're gonna take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and when we come back, more cannibalism. See, we could

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Speaker 1: keep going and just listing all sorts of weird and

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Speaker 1: gross tesque examples of mothers eating their own young, but

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Speaker 1: we should probably move on into another fascinating area of cannibalism.

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Speaker 1: Uh and definitely a sexier area of cannibalism, Sexual cannibalism.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which sounds like a great, great name for

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Speaker 1: a band if it is not used already. To drawback

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Speaker 1: to a to an example that we brought up in

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Speaker 1: a previous podcast or one about Ladies Night on Planet

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Speaker 1: Earth about the role that the male has in any

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Speaker 1: given species, we mentioned the uh, the brown and tecanus,

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Speaker 1: which is also known as mclahy's marsupial mouse. And this

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Speaker 1: is the male that mates for twelve hours at a

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Speaker 1: time and eventually he hunts himself to death. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: then he's his mouth. He's not another mouth to feed

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Speaker 1: through the winter. Like the species can then just focus

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Speaker 1: on the mother raising the young. All the men are dead,

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Speaker 1: uh you know until next season. Yeah, I think maybe,

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Speaker 1: so that he's that's sort of relegated to like being

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Speaker 1: the pool boy for the female. So that being the case.

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Speaker 1: Sexual cannibalism occurs when the female eats her mate daring

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Speaker 1: or immediately after the sex act, which happens a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah apparently. And and again it's like if you look

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Speaker 1: at the male as merely a mutation necessary for a

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Speaker 1: sexual reproduction, he doesn't necessarily have a lot of use

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Speaker 1: after that that sexual encounter. So again that's that's energy

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Speaker 1: has just wasted. So it reminds me of like when

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Speaker 1: a company brings on contract workers for a project that

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Speaker 1: has a like a short term goal. Feel like, we

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Speaker 1: need to get this project done, but we don't want

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Speaker 1: to like hire six guys and then have to pay

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Speaker 1: them or and gals and have to pay them benefits, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: So let's just bring them on his contract workers and

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Speaker 1: then in six months we're done. So it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the mail. In these cases, it's a contract worker

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Speaker 1: and at the when they're not needed anymore, they're let

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Speaker 1: go and they're they're submitting themselves to this process willingly

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Speaker 1: because they want to make sure that their offspring survived.

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Speaker 1: Is that the idea behind this what the mating? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that they would say, okay, yeah, I will meet with you,

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Speaker 1: knowing that you're going to say you're praying mantis. You're

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Speaker 1: going to rip my head off and then consume me

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Speaker 1: as I'm mating you. Well, it's interesting. I was reading

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Speaker 1: some stuff about this and h most in most cases,

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Speaker 1: the mail, I mean, the male is gonna mate. That's uh.

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Speaker 1: I'm all right, ladies, that the mail is that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the mail's mission. So he's he's going to engage

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Speaker 1: in that. But you'll also see, like with praying manaces,

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Speaker 1: the mails will try and survive, uh, within you know,

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Speaker 1: their limited ability to do so. Uh. And it's also

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Speaker 1: there's kind of it's kind of exaggerated in most praying manasis.

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Speaker 1: I understand because a lot of the the early studies

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Speaker 1: into this, you had females in captivity who had not

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Speaker 1: eaten as much as they want to. Yeah, they were veriou. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so here's this this mantis, and you know there

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Speaker 1: he's done his part or is doing his part, and

420
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: he can continue doing his part generally pretty well, even

421
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 1: with his head eating off. So they just go for it.

422
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: They say that typically praying manis uh cannibalistic mating process

423
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 1: only occurs five of the time and uh, and it

424
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: occurs most often if the female is hungry. Yeah, and

425
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: so most most species are only going to cannibalize regularly

426
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: in captivity. But there's a one species, uh, the mantis

427
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: religiosa um, which is which is really into it. It's

428
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: necessary they had to be removed for the mating process

429
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 1: to to to take effect properly. So and in these cases,

430
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 1: the female typically eats a third of her partners, and

431
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: she eats even more in the lab if the male

432
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: can't escape. But that's the thing. The male will try

433
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: and escape, it's just a third of the time he's uh,

434
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a chance. Yeah, I think it was

435
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: the mantal syce I was reading about that. Uh. There

436
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: was some suggestion that they had evolved to sort of

437
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: almost create a belt like effect in their abdomen regions,

438
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: so that they were drawing in all of their major

439
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: organs as tightly inward as possible, so that the things

440
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't get very easily. So they can keep processes going

441
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: at least two completely. Yeah, yeah, exactly, so they can

442
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: they can mate longer without dying. But it's interesting, um.

443
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about this to Harvard biologists Stephen J. Gould.

444
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: He had thought that that it wasn't as widespread as

445
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: it actually we know it is now. And his idea

446
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: was that, are you saying sexual cannibalism or cannibalism in general?

447
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: Sexual cannibal cannibalism. I think it was. It must have

448
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: been very troubling to him because he came up with

449
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 1: all these different ideas about it. But the main crux

450
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,959
Speaker 1: of it was that maybe it wasn't as widespread as

451
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: it actually is, and that the female had just mistaken

452
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: her mate as prey, which I thought was really funny because,

453
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 1: I mean, moments before the praying mantis was you know,

454
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: filling his wings and showing his abs the six pack,

455
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 1: and you know, then began mating with her, and the

456
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: idea that she just sort of forgot what she was

457
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: doing and turned around and went wow, pray wow. Maybe

458
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: maybe he just said he had like a really horrible,

459
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: you know girlfriend at some point, and he was like like, wow,

460
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: like somebody they just like snaps at the you know,

461
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: and so he's like, all women must be like this,

462
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: regardless of species. It's possible. There's there's definitely some overreaching there.

463
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: Now there's one. You'll You'll find a sexual cannibalism in

464
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: a number of arachnids and insects, but it's particularly interesting

465
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 1: in the red back spider. Yeah. Yeah, this is a

466
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: relative of the black widow, and the males, first of all,

467
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: are really tiny. Like it's one of these cases where

468
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: where the whole are you know, the whole case for

469
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: males is just being a you know, a mutation necessary

470
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: appropriation and not being the species itself. Really opposite, I

471
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: mean really, it's really obvious in this particular species because

472
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: the male is just tiny, looks like an entirely different

473
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: animal in the in the the female is enormous, and

474
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: the male is a willing participant in the sexual cannibalism. Alright,

475
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: So during copulation, this uh, the little male guy, he'll

476
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: position himself above the female's jaws, all right, and uh

477
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: and uh and and you know, basically like shove himself

478
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: into her jaws so that she gets to eat him.

479
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: Uh and uh. And they believe that it's uh, it's

480
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: favored in sexual selection because the sexual the cannibalized spiders

481
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: received two different advantages. First of all, cannibalized males copulate

482
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: longer and fertile i more eggs than those that survive.

483
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: And then also the females were more likely to reject

484
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: subsequent suitors if they consumed a mate, So this makes sense.

485
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: I think they were talking about it as a sort

486
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,959
Speaker 1: of like a sperm plug. Yeah, yeah, I mean, not

487
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: to get racy about it or anything, but basically that

488
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 1: you know, they had made their deposit in that you know,

489
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: any other males after that wouldn't necessarily be successful, right yeah.

490
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: And it's and it's interesting because like we're looking at

491
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: these other cases of sexual cannibalism and the male really

492
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have any there's no argument for the male

493
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: sticking around and being eaten for the you know, the

494
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: advancement of the species and the him passing on his DNA.

495
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: But this is a case where there's a definite advantage

496
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: if he gives himself up to you know, to the

497
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: appetite of his mate. Yeah, and I thought something that

498
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: um was really dramatic that I read is that they

499
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: one accounts so that they actually somersault onto the things.

500
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: We just like, take me, me, eat me. And then

501
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: the other thing that I read is that during the

502
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: mating process that they pluck the strings on the female's

503
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: web for like eight hours. And I know, and I

504
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: thought that is kind of sweet. But then I kind

505
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: of thought, well, maybe she was like that is driving

506
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: me crazy and might eat you. Are these these guys

507
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,719
Speaker 1: are so nice? And then the lady spiders are so

508
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: hard on him. It's just a it's it's a rough life.

509
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: And then there's the orb we weaving spider or weaving

510
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: um in which the male sexual organ gets stuck in

511
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: the female And this is by design. Again, it's the

512
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: same idea of this sort of a sperm plug. So

513
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: although she can polish him off and you know, snack

514
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: on him, she's stuck with him, so to speak, and

515
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: that just make sure that she can't meet with someone

516
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: else afterwards. So there's definitely design behind this. I don't

517
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: think that they're just being masochistic here. Yeah, it's not

518
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: the situation where the insect world is just like you know,

519
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: evil or anything, and it all makes makes sense the

520
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: grand scheme of things now. Um, moving away from from

521
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: sexual cannibalism, you will also find plenty of animals that

522
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: just seem to be kind of jerks, like kind of

523
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: any social jerks, And if they encounter anything, they're probably

524
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, they're either going to run from it or

525
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: try and kill it. And if it's one of their own,

526
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: they're probably going to try and either mate with it

527
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: or kill it, or mate with it and kill it.

528
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: So the score. Like various scorpions are great examples of this.

529
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: Like scorpions tend to live very solitary lives, and if

530
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: they encounter another scorpion of the same variety, then there's

531
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: a very good chance that they'll that one will eat

532
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: the other one. And if they're opposite sex and uh

533
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: you know, and it's uh you know, and they see

534
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: it as a good time to mate, then they may

535
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: mate and then one will eat the other. Yeah. The

536
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: Komodo dragon is of course another great example of of

537
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: just being a animal just for the heck of it,

538
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: because the young, uh, the commodo dragon young are just

539
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: considered prey um, you know, up until they're certain size,

540
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: primarily raised for prey one not primarily raised for prey.

541
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: But they're they're just the parents have no role in

542
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: rearing them after they've been born, so they just have

543
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: to climb the trees to escape parents. Escape their parents.

544
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: Other parents will eat them. They're like, oh, look at

545
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: those guys, they look tasty. I'm hungry. Let's do this.

546
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, the one thing they can do to besides

547
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: hiding in the treetops is that they smear themselves an excrement.

548
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: Then then that will keep the the their parents from

549
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: potentially eating them. That does actually work to Yeah, okay,

550
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: come out with dragons too. I remember something with Sharon

551
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: Stone's husband some years back. Oh, I forgot about that,

552
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: didn't Didn't They dine on her husband's foot? I think so. Yeah.

553
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: I think they went like a behind the scenes or something,

554
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: and he went to go pett it. Yeah, it's just

555
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: like a bad idea. Yeah, I understand. It really scarred him.

556
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: He's been uh I mean emotionally to the point where

557
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: he always keeps himself smeared in Komoto experiment, especially on vacation.

558
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: I guess that's why their relationship didn't work. Yeah, And

559
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: of course you'll find plenty of cases where um animals

560
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: of a various form will be more than willing to

561
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: eat their own dead after they be killed by another

562
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: you know species. You know, alligator, crocodile comes across the dead, uh,

563
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, creature of the same species. It's food, they'll

564
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: eat it. A number of scavengers like vultures, et cetera.

565
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: They see the food, they'll eat it. And even you know,

566
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: humans UM. Throughout throughout history, you have situations where humans

567
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: have eaten their own dead in cases of survival cannibalism. UM.

568
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: Some of those cases are a little controversial, like I've

569
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: I've read cases for and against the the Donner Party

570
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: cannibalism thing actually happening, right because there were no actual witnesses.

571
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: But and then you'll also have the case of the

572
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: soccer team and Alive UM and the and the actual

573
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: events that that movie and book were based on, where

574
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're in a horrible situation. The these

575
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: there are these dead bodies, and really, on a very

576
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: logical level, those bodies are energy and in a situation

577
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: where it's life or death, you're going to consume that energy, right,

578
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: And I think that's the important thing to think about,

579
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: is that it really is an extreme conditions right in

580
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: with humans as it has happened. And in nature, I mean,

581
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: food is scarce um, but you know, you can always

582
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: look over at someone and say it would be a

583
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: good protein source. Yeah, And in nature it tends to

584
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: be a lot. It's a lot more life and death obviously,

585
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: especially these cases we're looking at in the ocean where

586
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: where competition is tremendous. And you know, I think a

587
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: lot of our our fascination with cannibalism is that it

588
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: is we we largely a lot of us anyway, live

589
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: in a time where it's really hard to imagine such

590
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: a desperate situation, and it's and that would necessitate this

591
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: kind of return to our primal roots and our basic programming. Yeah, actually,

592
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: wasn't it. Ted Turner, who not too long ago warned

593
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: everybody that we become cannibalists if if we didn't address

594
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: the global warming situation, missed that. Yeah, Yeah, there was.

595
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: I mean, of course it drew outrage that it was

596
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: certainly a way to get people to pay attention to

597
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: the problem. Oh yeah, I actually, um yeah, I actually

598
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: heard that they the Ted's Montana grills. They actually had

599
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: these these statues of people that they were going to

600
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: start rolling out in place of the buffalo of the

601
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: cannibals and things, because you know, I mean, Ted's a

602
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: savvy businesses. So cannibalism becomes a new thing, then Ted's

603
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: Montana Girl is gonna pick up on it. Of course

604
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: that's a brilliant idea. Um. But what about primates. I

605
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: mean that to me, primates and cannibalism is um, that's

606
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: one of those things I can't help but anthropomorphosize because

607
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: I think that we look at them and see so

608
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: much of ourselves in them, and they do cannibalize one

609
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: another from time to time. It's um. Especially um with primates,

610
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: you see some very disturbing acts, you know, and they're

611
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: more disturbing because they resemble us more. And you know,

612
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: you'll see you know, see you'll see chimpanzees, even gorillas

613
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: and o ring attains their cases where they're you know,

614
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: suspected of eating their own young. Um. You know, and

615
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: we've seen plenty of cases of where chimpanzees have have

616
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: have demonstrated their capacity for quote unquote cruelty towards other chimpanzees.

617
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: But will they I know that sometimes when they're fighting

618
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: that they'll kill each other, but when they're fighting, don't

619
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: don't necessarily eat the body afterward? Is that right? Right? Or? Yeah?

620
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: Not necessarily will they eat it? So it's it's more, um,

621
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: I guess if they come along a deceased chimpanzee or

622
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: other type of ape and they actually just eat it. Yeah.

623
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: In chimpanzees, typically the males will kill and eat the

624
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: infant of another female, usually in their own group, but

625
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: occasionally in another. And when chimps kill adults from other

626
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: groups in a fight, they don't eat the body, Okay.

627
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: And I remember this too, that they might eat the

628
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: infant to um force the chimpanzee into astrous so that

629
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: they can go ahead and propagate again. Is that right?

630
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: I believe so? Yeah, So the infant may not have

631
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: been their infant, but they want to go ahead and

632
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: mate and get the process rolling right now. It's it's

633
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: interesting when you start looking at especially at at primates

634
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: eating one another in different cases, you know, throughout history,

635
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: and they're confidantly studies arguing for and against the um

636
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: just how much cannibalism was going on with prehistor with

637
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: prehistoric humans, but anthropologist William Ron's suggests it's simply bad

638
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: strategy as far as evolution goes. Though, like since the

639
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: under evolutionary theory, we're fueled by that, and you know,

640
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: and they desire to see our jeans survived, you know,

641
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: eating another one of your you know, your tribe and

642
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: your species. That doesn't probably make sense, you know, it's

643
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: just going it's working against our our basic programming. And

644
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: and and another interesting thing to keep in mind is, uh,

645
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: you know, you may think, well, why don't humans just

646
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: raise you know, why why don't humans raise humans for food? Right?

647
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: Or how how come you don't have you know, cases

648
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: where um cannibalism becomes a stapable staple of any species

649
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: diet um, though it is worth pointing out that cannibalism

650
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: can play a huge role in the diet. I think

651
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to the scorpions here for a second.

652
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: There's a study of desert scorpions, and they found the

653
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: cannibals and provided only the fourth most common meal for

654
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: a scorpion. But but as far as body mask goes,

655
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: it was the number one, representing more than of its

656
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: total food intake. So so yeah, So in in the

657
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: case of the scorpion, yes, cannibalism can, for i'd a

658
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 1: large part of its diet. But in humans you see

659
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: a different situation. Yeah, and humans nature does not necessarily

660
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: like for us to practice cannibalism. And I think that

661
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: you can see that pretty well illustrated in the four tribe,

662
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: Is that right with the curu? Yes, curu is a

663
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: it's a rare breed of disorder caused by what are

664
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: called prions, and these are abnormal proteins which induce irregular

665
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: protein folding in brain cells and this leads to flawed

666
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: brain tissue which results in progressive, incurable brain damage. The

667
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: word itself, curu means laughing disease in its name because

668
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 1: the scientists observed fits of hysterical laughing in those affected.

669
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: So it's pretty pretty dramatic stuff. Um. And so this

670
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: is this came on because the tribe was basically practicing

671
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: endocannibalism right with the funeral rights. They were consuming the body,

672
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: which you know isn't because they were looking for a

673
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: source of protein, but because they was a way to

674
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 1: respect the deceased, to literally absorb them, right, And it's

675
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: it's interesting. This is a case where if you if

676
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: you start thinking about cannibalism in a very logical you know,

677
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: energy sort of uh, you know a thing, then eating

678
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: one's ancestors does kind of make it makes sense. It's

679
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 1: like a way to honor them. It's like I'm inviting

680
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: their energy back into me. And uh and that's that's

681
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: pretty much how Sally would be great. Yes, symbolically it's great. Um,

682
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: And on a basic interview level, it's it's not bad either.

683
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's kind of it really opens

684
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: the door for the passage of disease. Right, And so

685
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: this is sort of like the mad cow equivalent, is

686
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: that right? Yes? Yeah, mad cow is a similar disorder

687
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: as is I'm going to just take a shot at this,

688
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: uh creative fed as Jacob's disease felt, Yeah, that sounds

689
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: goods uh. And this is a human variant of bad

690
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: cow disease. And they basically, like with the four A,

691
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: they were basically able to to to wipe out the

692
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: disease by simply getting them to stop practicing this communal cannibalism, right,

693
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: like literally overnight. Yeah, they got them to to eradicate

694
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: this from tribe. Even basically it's like, hey, guys, you

695
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,479
Speaker 1: know when you're your family members go start graving mad

696
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: and are laughing at nothing and then die. Well, that

697
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: comes from the cannibalism. So let's cut that out pretty

698
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: What they're like, well, you know, we weren't two, We

699
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: weren't that crazy about the cannibalism. We can we can

700
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: set that aside. Well, I guess it's also in nature

701
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: a little bit of a concern for primates too, because

702
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: they sometimes will consume a body as a group, spreading

703
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: potentially a disease something like hepatitis um. And I did

704
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: want to add a side note about bnobo's um, which

705
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: is an ape and uh, they're sometimes called the hippie

706
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: ape because they are fun loving and they love to

707
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: mate without discretion. It's like the Key parties in the seventies.

708
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: They are the binobo along with the humans and the dolphins,

709
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 1: only animals that actually enjoy sex. Right yeah, yeah, so um,

710
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: hence called the hippie ape. I don't know, um, do

711
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: hippie apes enjoy sex? One other I don't know, but uh,

712
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: something that was pretty disconcerting is that they were observed

713
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: pretty recently in the wild to have consumed one of

714
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: their own. And again, this is the anthropomorphic thing where

715
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: we look at them when we sell but there's just

716
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: peace loving and they just love to have sex with

717
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: each other. Why are they eating each other? Um? But

718
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: they would be a good example of primates um taking

719
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: the body and eating it, and they actually ate that

720
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: body for more than seven hours, um, which is a

721
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: lot longer than they would take on any other body.

722
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: And some of the people in the group or the

723
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: individuals I guess would think, people, we're actually playing with

724
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: the food. So um, it's a it's an interesting side

725
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: note in that, Um, it's an odd occurrence for Banobo's

726
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: to be doing that and in the way that they did.

727
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: And of course you could extrapolate that it was some

728
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: sort of uh funeral, right, but then that wouldn't really

729
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: be correct because we just don't know what they were doing.

730
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,240
Speaker 1: But it's also a good example of how that disease

731
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: could be transmitted through the group right now. And it's

732
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: easy to go to fall into the trap of saying, well,

733
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: then this is a great case of where you know,

734
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: you know, nature of horrors cannibalism and that you know,

735
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: cannibalism of this nature of this, you know, communical communal

736
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 1: cannibalism is just poison um And and you know maybe

737
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: maybe you know, you could still make that case. But

738
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: I was looking at two thousand and six University of

739
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 1: Virginia study and they found that cannibalism uh is actually

740
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: only documented as the predominant transmission mode of a disease

741
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: in very few species. Um. Yeah, even even through you know,

742
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: specific instances of cannibalistic transmission um that have been noted

743
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: um Like. Basically, the only two cases they found were

744
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: the Priyon transmission in humans that we mentioned earlier and

745
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: a a kind of protozoa based illness in lizards. And

746
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: if do you think this is because most cannialism is

747
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: one on one as opposed to a group situation like that,

748
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: the group cannibalism is more an outlier, um yeah. Well yeah,

749
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: And also I think it's it also comes down to

750
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: like cannibalism, like, you know, a disease is gonna needs

751
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: to spread. It's got the same genetic mission as as

752
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: as any organism, so it needs it needs a road

753
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: it can count on. Right, So, the the idea of

754
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: some sort of disease depending exclusively on cannibalism, it largely

755
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. This is not not an economic way

756
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: of going about it. So like so you know, for instance,

757
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: in the study, in other cases of cannibalistic disease transmission, uh,

758
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: and there were others alternate disease transmission modes existed. Um.

759
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: So it's like the you know, hepatitis or something happititize

760
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: isn't depending exclusively on group animalism to spread. But if

761
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: that door's open, it'll gladly, gladly take it. Not to

762
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: personify the illness too much, so I guess that the

763
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: talking about not trying to anthromorphosize. Ultimately, you can't get

764
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: back around to this question. Aren't we sort of all

765
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: cannibals on some level or another? Yeah, I mean you know,

766
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: you look at things like anything from a blood transfusion

767
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,479
Speaker 1: to you know, organ transplant. I mean it's it again

768
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: kind of comes down to the the energy uh situation.

769
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: It's like we're we're taking energy out and storing it.

770
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: We're harvesting energy that it can that is otherwise going

771
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: to be wasted in bringing it back into ourselves. Um,

772
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: there are a few interesting cases in the in the

773
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: traditional Chinese medicine where you have what they call tibo

774
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: let's p A I B A. Oh. Nothing to do

775
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: with the martial arts exercise. You can to do with that.

776
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 1: But but this is a particular medicine that involves something

777
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: uh also referred to as a boardist because it's uh,

778
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: it's harvested from from vitas um. And this is according

779
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: to Mary Roach in her book. Still she goes into

780
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: this a little and explorers this whole chapter on cannibalism

781
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: uh in the use of materials from corpses in medicine

782
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: in that book. So highly recommend checking that out. So

783
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: there you have it. Fine, Young cannibals find Young animal Cannibals.

784
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed it. It's an older episode, but

785
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: again the information is certainly all good. That's right. Uh.

786
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: So does this change the way that you look at

787
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: praying mantis is now? Do you think of them as

788
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: being these end like creatures or just horrific sexual antics? Yeah?

789
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: Let us know you can find us in all the

790
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: normal places where at stuff to blow your mind dot com.

791
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: That's the mothership, but you can also find us in

792
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: social media outlets such as Facebook and tumbling. We are

793
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind on both of those and

794
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 1: also on Twitter, where our handles blow the Mind and Oh.

795
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: Head over to YouTube and you can catch us uh

796
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: engaging in various educational antics at mind Stuff Show. And

797
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 1: you could always drop us a line, and we encourage

798
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: you to do so at Below the Mind at Discovery

799
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics,

800
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: is it how stuff Works dot com