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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season two seventy three,

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Speaker 1: Episode three of dirt Les Like Guys, a production of

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Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. This is a podcast where we take

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Speaker 1: a deep dive into america shared consciousness. It's Wednesday, February

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Speaker 1: one three. My name is Jack O'Brien, a K. Potatoes O'Brien,

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Speaker 1: a k oh Brian, Oh Brian. Like the Entourage theme song,

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Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to come back without like the

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Speaker 1: guitar fluzz, but that's what I was going for. And

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be joined by a very special guest

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Speaker 1: co host who hosts the podcast This Day and Esoteric

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Speaker 1: Political History from Radio Topia, and a new show called

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Speaker 1: good Sport from Ted and Pushkin, launching next week, coming

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Speaker 1: complete with a launch party that he'll tell you all about.

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Speaker 1: You may have heard him hosting thirty for thirty for ESPN,

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Speaker 1: the five thirty eight politics podcast, which is where I

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Speaker 1: first started years ago. It's Jody Abergay. The intros on

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Speaker 1: this show are just unlike any other. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why I do any show other than this one. Do

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Speaker 1: this for higher I can be your husband. I thought

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Speaker 1: you were doing the O'Reilly thing. Yeah, I've done that before.

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Speaker 1: I might have done the entourage one, going back to

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Speaker 1: the well, that's right, well, Jody, we are thrilled to

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Speaker 1: be joined in our third seat by one of the

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Speaker 1: favorite guests on t d Z, A poet, a podcaster

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Speaker 1: who you can hear on the American Hysteria podcast, exploring

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Speaker 1: the fantastical thinking and irrational fears of Americans through the

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Speaker 1: lens moral panics, urban legends, and conspiracy theories. Please welcome

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Speaker 1: the brilliant and talented Chelsea Weber Smith. Always thrilled to

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Speaker 1: be here. Thank you so much. Very enthusiastic intros. As

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Speaker 1: Jody said, yes, enthusised, enthused to have you guys here.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I've said enthused since the night. But Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: you have the same instinct Diet when you get an

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Speaker 1: introduction that enthusiastic, you actually go in the other direction

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't like at me,

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Speaker 1: that's the intent. So it's just more energy, more room

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Speaker 1: for me to take up in the podcast. That's why

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Speaker 1: I go so big, just to set the tone so

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Speaker 1: everybody knows, this is my house, this is Daddy eats first,

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Speaker 1: is what I like to say. Off Mike No I

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Speaker 1: don't say that. How are you guys doing doing good?

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Speaker 1: I got a little cold, so I sound like a

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Speaker 1: little baby, but it's all right. Yeah, I'm coming off

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Speaker 1: of like four full days of not being sick or

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Speaker 1: not having anyone in my family. It's just remarkable that

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Speaker 1: it has been X days since someone in this house

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Speaker 1: has had RSB or COVID. You know, we're about the sign.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I'm living that n N S life,

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Speaker 1: that never not sick life in this household. It's a

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Speaker 1: pleasure always. But all right, Well, we're gonna get to

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Speaker 1: know you a little bit better in a moment, Chelsea. First,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna tell our listeners a couple of the things

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. There's a big New Yorker article on

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Speaker 1: the subject of what's the matter with men? And you know,

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Speaker 1: when when I first hear that question, I start getting

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Speaker 1: a little worried that it's going to be you know,

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Speaker 1: men are being held down by this new civilizational shift

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Speaker 1: to the left, and there is some acknowledgement of that,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. It seems like an interesting article.

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Speaker 1: I thought i'd bring it up. It raises some interesting ideas.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the Biden administrations pivot to the middle.

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Speaker 1: We were told this was coming after you know. The

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Speaker 1: explanation was that during the mid terms there was evidence

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Speaker 1: that voters rejected extremes on both sides of the aisle.

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Speaker 1: Which did They just took, you know, people's rejection of

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Speaker 1: far right conspiracy theories, and we're like, and they probably

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Speaker 1: hate the left too. So we're gonna talk about what

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Speaker 1: that is looking like in terms of actual policy from

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration. We're gonna talk subtitles. Do when when

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Speaker 1: you consume content streaming content, do you do you subtitle? Chelsea? Absolutely, always,

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Speaker 1: always yeah, but I have so many questions about why. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not really even sure why, but yeah, for sure

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Speaker 1: it happen. So all of that plenty more. But first, Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: we do like to ask our guests, what is something

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Speaker 1: from your search history? You know, this is my favorite part,

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Speaker 1: right so we've got my favorite part when you are

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Speaker 1: on so right now out My best one is Jack

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Speaker 1: Chick Closet Witches Tape. I feel like Jack. You know

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Speaker 1: Jack Chick Chick tracks, do you not? I am aware

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Speaker 1: of yes. So that's the next series that we're working

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Speaker 1: on in American hysteria. And uh, Jack Chick, for anyone

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Speaker 1: who doesn't know, is the person who made those tiny

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Speaker 1: little booklets that people would leave at like uh pay

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Speaker 1: phones or tip you personally. I got tipped in chick

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Speaker 1: tracks all the time, and they're little Bible little stories

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Speaker 1: that Jack Chick is telling about the sins of the world,

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Speaker 1: and they're very dramatic Demons, Satanists, homosexual agenda, Catholic conspiracies,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. And uh, I feel like most people

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Speaker 1: have come in contact with this in some way, so

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Speaker 1: we're trying to like get really deep into this. So

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Speaker 1: I was curious if either of you guys wanted to

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Speaker 1: say anything about Like, Jody, do you know what chick

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Speaker 1: tracks are? Is this familiar to you? I'm actually on

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Speaker 1: I mean, as you described it to have a sense,

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Speaker 1: but I'm doing some furious googling. Yeah, furiously google. Well,

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Speaker 1: he's like the most read indie comic artist of all time, right,

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Speaker 1: so he's got this weird support. But it's like they

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Speaker 1: you know, you hate his message, but you can't help

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Speaker 1: but be like, I love this comic because it's just

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Speaker 1: the best outsider art. And he's also the most widely

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Speaker 1: published theologian ever, you know, because there's about a billion

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Speaker 1: of these out in circulation all over the world, and

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Speaker 1: so we're trying to really get into both who he was.

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Speaker 1: But also he had these three influences who were like

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Speaker 1: these these secret agents that would deliver Jack Chick information

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Speaker 1: and they were One of them was an Illuminati high

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Speaker 1: priest who was also a Druid witch and he kind

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Speaker 1: of provided him with all that satanic panic information that

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Speaker 1: we love. He had Dr Rebecca Brown and Elaine and

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Speaker 1: all it it was hurt story was that he was

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Speaker 1: a doctor at this hospital that was infiltrated by witches

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Speaker 1: and she was doing exorcisms. But it all turned out

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Speaker 1: that she was kind of doing this because she was

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Speaker 1: really addicted to dem roll and uh, then you know,

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Speaker 1: we had his and that's that's why. No, that's the

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Speaker 1: thing is that it was an honest It was kind

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Speaker 1: of an honest thing he was doing. He wasn't actually

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Speaker 1: becoming rich, so yeah, he was. He wasn't really paying anyone.

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Speaker 1: These were people who Stanley of the Christian world exactly,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, not really paying people, right, It's it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's different than you're Jerry Folwells in a way because

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, at least you're doing something you believe in.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, we're just really going to

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Speaker 1: try to dive deep because those tracks were like huge

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Speaker 1: in the Satanic panic and huge in them what was

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Speaker 1: the he Chick tracks era? Um, they started in the

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Speaker 1: sixties and then he died in they're still going, but

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Speaker 1: of course they've lost their they've lost their special time.

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Speaker 1: I will tell you. I'm on the Wikipedia page here

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Speaker 1: learning from you as you talking. Also as I scan,

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Speaker 1: and I did a control f for for something, and

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Speaker 1: I was shocked at dinghump. I did control f John

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Speaker 1: Birch Society and it's not there, but you know that

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Speaker 1: that was the sort of where my head went. And

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Speaker 1: that's great, that's great, except that Jack Chick condemned the

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Speaker 1: John Birch Society really, so I guess we'll give him

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Speaker 1: that just hated. Yeah, And I also will say his

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Speaker 1: grand conspiracy was not Jewish people taking over the world.

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Speaker 1: It was the Catholic Church, so old school school, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's great. You know it's funny, Chelsea. You covered the

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Speaker 1: sudden you're showing and on our show too. You know,

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Speaker 1: we do we we talked about kind of all sorts

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Speaker 1: of different moments from from history, and we just had

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Speaker 1: an episode where we kind of we we hit like

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Speaker 1: four episodes of our show, because times a week, but

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Speaker 1: we talked about kind of big themes that have emerged

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Speaker 1: over just many my stories in American history recovered, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of them were usual, but I had not

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Speaker 1: really gotten my head around, and actually doing this show

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Speaker 1: really taught me how anti Catholicism is just over and

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Speaker 1: over and over, you scratch on a moment in American history,

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Speaker 1: and it is just an underlying theme, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it mingles with Yeah, it makes sense, but you

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Speaker 1: know it, and it just mingles with every other kind

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Speaker 1: of like paranoia Jore. But that is always it is

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Speaker 1: always one of the ingredients saying it makes sense because

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Speaker 1: we're the worst, Yes, And I would say it makes

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Speaker 1: sense because they're annoying and their church is very strange. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and America was founded on anti Catholicism, right, so it

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Speaker 1: makes sense that that would be our go to conspiracy

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Speaker 1: and it yeah, I don't know. It's it's refreshing and

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Speaker 1: a live sorry Catholics out there, but it's different than

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Speaker 1: the the Jewish conspiracy that we usually hear from like

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Speaker 1: the John Birch Society. Yeah, please bring back anti Catholicism.

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Speaker 1: It's there. That's not what I'm saying. Yeah, what is

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Speaker 1: something you think is overraged Catholics? Are you? You guys

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Speaker 1: are horror movie people, right, Catholics? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: mean I'm not like a huge horror movie person because

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Speaker 1: I don't have that many people to watch them with.

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Speaker 1: But when I watch a good one, I enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's sad. Um. Well, I'm thinking, did you guys

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Speaker 1: hear about Skinner Rank the horror movie I've seen. I've

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Speaker 1: seen it start to bubble. I'm aware of I'm aware

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Speaker 1: of the hype. Yeah, the hype for me personally didn't.

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Speaker 1: I saw it at a mall movie theater and it's

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Speaker 1: one of those movies where like, if you watched it

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Speaker 1: on YouTube in the middle of the night, you like

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Speaker 1: stumbled upon it, it would be really good. But uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a hundred and something minutes of very very

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Speaker 1: very slow, completely on like just plotless content. I respect it,

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Speaker 1: but I just feel like, I will say, fifteen grand

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Speaker 1: budget for a horror movie that made a wide release,

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Speaker 1: you gotta respect it. But it's no Blair, which project

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, Remember was it New York mag who

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Speaker 1: used to have this little feature Maybe they still do that.

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Speaker 1: There was like show back that No, not the matrix.

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Speaker 1: It was just like undulating curve of like hype, backlash,

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Speaker 1: backlash to the backlash black, you know, And I feel

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Speaker 1: like you can plot that I'm seeing that sort of

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Speaker 1: ride that roller coaster a little bit. But you're right

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Speaker 1: about the only thing I've seen other than like the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's, you know, in wide release after being

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Speaker 1: such such a slow, such a small budget, is that

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Speaker 1: um people were like, yeah, it really vividly recreates the

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Speaker 1: like slow, subtle terror of being a kid alone in

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Speaker 1: your room, which for some people I think it's like

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Speaker 1: that's incredibly powerful, but for other people, like that might

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Speaker 1: not be the best content for a movie. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And it is super super subtle. It is very subtle,

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Speaker 1: and it does give you like this feeling of when

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Speaker 1: you're going back into your memories and you're it's all

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Speaker 1: kind of all these images and sounds and you can't

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Speaker 1: really pull a narrative out of it, and you try

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Speaker 1: and try, but you can't. And for that reason, I

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Speaker 1: think it was very cool. I just could not bear

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Speaker 1: it in a movie theater with other people in there

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Speaker 1: who garante like just normal people who are like, let's

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Speaker 1: go see the new horror movie, and it is just

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Speaker 1: I could tell that everyone just felt so uncomfortable. They're

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Speaker 1: truly plotless. Um, there's a plot, but I would say

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Speaker 1: pretty plotless. Yeah, more impressionistic, like an impression, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean the reason I don't get to watch horror

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Speaker 1: movies because I'm four and a six year old, and

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Speaker 1: you know, the movie time generally is a lot of

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Speaker 1: Disney things. But it sounds like this one is actually

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Speaker 1: kind of appropriate for them. So I'll definitely make sure that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: definitely kind of sit down as a family and and

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Speaker 1: take this in. Wait, can I tell Can I tell

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Speaker 1: your story? That might get cut, but it's worth telling.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to a friend of mine who has

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Speaker 1: a kid in third grade, and I was telling me

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Speaker 1: that around last fall, around Halloween, there was a sub

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Speaker 1: in one of the for the third grade class, and

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Speaker 1: you know, the teacher was out. Six stub came in

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Speaker 1: and it was on a Friday, and then that weekend,

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Speaker 1: all the parents in the school in the third grade

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Speaker 1: started to like text each other and be like is

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Speaker 1: your kid off? Like is your kid off? What's going on?

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Speaker 1: Like you know my kids? My kids couldn't sleep last night.

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Speaker 1: My kid was like just sort of talking about some

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Speaker 1: weird stuff that happen in school. And so they start

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Speaker 1: piecing together what happened at school on that Friday, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out that the substitute teacher showed a third

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Speaker 1: grade class the movie The Conjuring four, just like a

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Speaker 1: straight up horror film, like it's just the Conjury and

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Speaker 1: and like all the kids were traumatized, like completely traumatized,

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Speaker 1: and um and the one and the way they finally

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Speaker 1: pieced the information together because mostly it was like kids

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Speaker 1: who were just like refusing to talk about what happens school,

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Speaker 1: couldn't sleep, like terrorized. But then there was like one

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Speaker 1: kid who seemed to be completely unaffected, and it was

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Speaker 1: just like, you know, the sub showed was the Conjuring form.

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Speaker 1: We watched it was pretty cool, you know, which which

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Speaker 1: raises all sorts of questions about like why that kid

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Speaker 1: wasn't traumatized but just an incredible his first day ever

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Speaker 1: as a substitute teacher decided to show a bunch of

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Speaker 1: third grades there Conjuring, for it seems like malicious intent.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't seem like any version where they're like, oh

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Speaker 1: you know what, this might be the one that reaches

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Speaker 1: the kid. I I think the only only possible explanation

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Speaker 1: is that, like substituti shouts show movies all the time.

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Speaker 1: It's like he logged into his Netflix and it was

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Speaker 1: like the first thing on there because he had been

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Speaker 1: watching it, and then he got steamrolled by the kids

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Speaker 1: who were like, yeah, we want watched, everyone watched, and

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Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know. There's literally his first stay

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Speaker 1: ever as a substitute teacher, and that one last presumable

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Speaker 1: I got a theory for you. Okay, So the Conjuring

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Speaker 1: series is actually very very Catholic, you know, So we're

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Speaker 1: back on Catholic conspiracies and it's very much like it's

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Speaker 1: made by religious people in fact, and so it's like

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Speaker 1: maybe they were trying to get a little fear of

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Speaker 1: God in those kids, and it's probably worked. Brooklyn Public Schools. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know you want to show and I'm just saying,

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Speaker 1: why would you show them? For? With so many questions here,

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Speaker 1: so many questions here, like that's not fair. The best

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Speaker 1: part was that, you know, there were a bunch of

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Speaker 1: parents who were just like WHOA, that's weird, and you know,

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Speaker 1: kept it moving, and then a bunch of parents like

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Speaker 1: got totally up in arms marching to the principles and

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Speaker 1: she's like, what do you want me to do? Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's not like in the guide book for

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Speaker 1: for new teachers, be like do not show a bunch

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Speaker 1: of eight year olds a horror movie. Like she's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to hire that guy again. But like,

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Speaker 1: what was that? Like? It just wasn't the rule says

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Speaker 1: that dog can't play basketball. It's like sometimes that actually happens.

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Speaker 1: There's a similar story where a coach played It's not

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Speaker 1: really similar, but it just reminded me that that because

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Speaker 1: I found out about this morning. It was a coach

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Speaker 1: who an assistant coach who like subbed in and quotes

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Speaker 1: for a player on a high school girls basketball team.

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Speaker 1: And you know, my because the student was out of

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Speaker 1: town like playing on a different team, and like I

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Speaker 1: I guess the student is like one of their better players.

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Speaker 1: And so my mind was like, oh, maybe they needed

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Speaker 1: like a fifth person to suit up, and they just

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Speaker 1: like kinda set to the back and then they like

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Speaker 1: show footage from the game and the coaches just like

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Speaker 1: Billy Madison blocking the shots and like doing like to

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Speaker 1: get to the rag and doing that, and one like

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Speaker 1: just like celebrations. And it's similarly, it's like you're telling that.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, well where I We'll see what movie

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Speaker 1: it is. Maybe it's like an honest and maybe it's Braveheart.

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Speaker 1: My teachers always showed that to me in high school

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Speaker 1: for some reason. But the Conjuring four and then it's

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Speaker 1: just blows pass all that. Yeah, it is interesting to

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Speaker 1: I would be interested to find out if it was

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Speaker 1: a Catholic school. Ya get that teacher on the show. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what I say that time. Yeah, Chelsea, what is

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Speaker 1: something you think is underrated? Well, as I was like

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Speaker 1: working on that this morning, I came up with my

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Speaker 1: answer and then I remembered that this was an answer

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Speaker 1: I gave on another show with you guys in the past.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna do it again, and that is

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Speaker 1: Hackey Sack. Yeah, yeah, I know, I just like I

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Speaker 1: had picked that this week. Hacky Sack is just making

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Speaker 1: a major comeback? Is it making a comeback? I have

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Speaker 1: no idea. Okay, well that would be nice because I

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Speaker 1: feel weird doing it. But um, I had my friend

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Speaker 1: Sarah Marshall from You're Wrong About came up and just

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Speaker 1: got in a hacky sacking with me for the first

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Speaker 1: time in her life, and it was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: she was saying that it felt like, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're working on hockey sacking, you can kind of get

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Speaker 1: into some ship when you're talking. And maybe that's how

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Speaker 1: dudes just talk to each other in the nineties. They

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Speaker 1: just hacked around and it just gave them this opportunity

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Speaker 1: to get kind of intimate. And I like that and

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Speaker 1: that stually sounds gender But yeah, I know finished that

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Speaker 1: What's Wrong with Men article, But I'm pretty sure seen

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Speaker 1: where it was headed that that kicker was that we

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Speaker 1: just don't hacky sack with yether do with one another enough.

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Speaker 1: There's definitely something to that of like occupying your mind

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Speaker 1: with some task that is sort of wrote or you

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Speaker 1: know something too, and like by distracting the conscious part

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Speaker 1: of your mind, your unconscious is allowed to like kind

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Speaker 1: of play a little bit and have a good conversation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think about this with video games, you know,

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Speaker 1: to think of it like so isolating or whatever. You're

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Speaker 1: staring screen, but like you know, you're with five other

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Speaker 1: people and you're sort of have this running commentary and

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Speaker 1: it's just sort of creates this like texture on which

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Speaker 1: to have I think, you know, real conversations and bond

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Speaker 1: and all those things. So right, absolutely, it's just the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of like being being with your friends, like playing

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Speaker 1: with the little cord on the phone, you know, up

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Speaker 1: late m hmm, as the sun's going down, as you know,

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Speaker 1: you're like, you've only got another thirty minutes to hack boy.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Hacksack was big in my middle school. My

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Speaker 1: middle school was very heavy first. So big in middle schools?

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Speaker 1: Is it just that we don't oh, I hang up hangs.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty Uh, it's not not as popular as I'd

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Speaker 1: like it to be. You know. I try and get

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Speaker 1: some circles going, and they're not not a lot of

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Speaker 1: takers these days. It can't be because I'm forty two

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Speaker 1: years old. Yeah, well, it's it's hard to get it

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Speaker 1: going when you're legally you don't have to be two

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Speaker 1: fifty feet away. That's right, All right, let's take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and we'll be right back. To talk about

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Speaker 1: what's the matter with men? And we're back? And this

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Speaker 1: is this is I mean, the title of the article

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Speaker 1: in the New Yorker is What's the Matter with Men?

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Speaker 1: Probably that feels as close as a New Yorker title

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Speaker 1: has come to being also the title of like a

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Speaker 1: you know, Donna Hue like you know, like the old

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Speaker 1: eighties daytime talk show thing, or also a Fox News

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Speaker 1: like a Tucker Carlson Chiron like probably on a bi

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Speaker 1: weekly basis. So, I mean, it is hard to cover

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Speaker 1: the subject without seeming like you're claiming cancel. Culture has

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Speaker 1: changed the rules and it's too mean to boys, or

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Speaker 1: you know whatever. There's a lot of answers given to

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Speaker 1: this kind of preemptively by the Fox News of the

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Speaker 1: world and the right and Tucker Carlson. But you know,

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Speaker 1: my might take on that would be that like, culturally,

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Speaker 1: we are seeing just the barrassed minimum start to fixing

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Speaker 1: an imbalance and structural inequality that has been pervasive like

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Speaker 1: for many, you know, across many human civilizations. And you

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Speaker 1: know now that the thing the interesting things that I

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Speaker 1: don't think I fully understood the extent of is that

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Speaker 1: in academic performance, both in the United States and in

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Speaker 1: countries around the world, we are seeing boys underperformed girls

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Speaker 1: like drastically, like in a way that is like not

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Speaker 1: is not statistically like insignificant, like you you can't. There

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Speaker 1: has to be something going on there, they say. It's

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Speaker 1: like both with advanced countries that still struggle with considerable sexism,

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Speaker 1: such as South Korea and in notably egalitarian countries like Sweden.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's just you know, in two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: American high school students in the top ten percent of

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Speaker 1: their freshman class where twice as likely to be female.

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Speaker 1: In the United States, women are close to or girls

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Speaker 1: you know, are close to outnumbering boys two to one

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Speaker 1: in undergraduate and in colleges, where whereas at the start

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Speaker 1: of the eighties it was more like one to one.

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Speaker 1: So go ahead, no, yeah, well, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I like this article, and um, you know, I know

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Speaker 1: you have to write a headline to get people on

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Speaker 1: the Internet to pay attention, so you know whatever, I

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Speaker 1: just tend to dismiss headlines and just actually look at

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Speaker 1: what's going on there. But but it feels like you

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Speaker 1: started to hint a two things that this article I

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Speaker 1: think does a nice job of and navigating, which is

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Speaker 1: one is, you know, there's a problem with men in

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Speaker 1: the sense that all the ways in which they've traditionally

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Speaker 1: been allowed to behave our cultural norms are changing. And

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Speaker 1: that's where it gets into cancel culture and you know

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Speaker 1: all these other things, and that's you know, for for better,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's it's fraught. You know, there's complications to

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Speaker 1: explore there. And then there's this other thing which you described,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, men and boys are falling behind

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Speaker 1: in in lots of ways um that we can start

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Speaker 1: to measure and see. And I'm not sure if those

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Speaker 1: are necessarily like related or part of the same conversation,

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Speaker 1: Like just because we told Louis c K he can't

404
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Speaker 1: behave a certain way doesn't necessarily mean that then like

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Speaker 1: eighth grade boys are that are worse at math and

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Speaker 1: so there, I just want to sort of identify that

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Speaker 1: there are lots of swirling and interconnected but not necessarily

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00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: causally related things going on with men. Yeah, And I

409
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Speaker 1: think what's really important is to think of about how

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Speaker 1: now men's rights and women's rights are somehow diametrically opposed

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Speaker 1: from each other, But originally during there was a men's

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Speaker 1: rights movement. The original men's rights movement was very much

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Speaker 1: pro equality, which meant men needed to sort of take

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Speaker 1: that self inventory and say, okay, how are the ways, like,

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Speaker 1: how are we oppressed? Quote unquote right? What what causes

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Speaker 1: us pain? And that also causes women pain at the

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Speaker 1: same time. So those movements were kind of like married

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Speaker 1: to each other until slowly they unwound into this sort

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00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: of battle against each other, which is really sad because

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Speaker 1: there's lots of reasons that we should look at the

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Speaker 1: problems that men experience that's not somehow anti women, right,

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Speaker 1: it should be something that we're moving forward with consciously

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Speaker 1: on both sides. And it's really a bummer that, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's become such a cesspool of horror men's rights la.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know that's it makes me think of

426
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: this article in The New York is a review of

427
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: a of a book, and you know, the book is

428
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: written by someone who tends who comes from a background

429
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: of studying inequality and the kind of like myth of opportunity,

430
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: which I think is so related to all this because

431
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: I think to your point, like when you set yourself

432
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: up to define opportunity as a zero sum game, which

433
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of men, but I think

434
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: for a lot of Americans in general, is the way

435
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: that we've seen it. Then you lead to this sort

436
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: of competitive notion of equality or or you know, gender,

437
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: the relationship between the genders, Whereas if you can kind

438
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: of like start to rethink what it means to have

439
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: opportunity or to succeed and think of it as more collaborative,

440
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: then you maybe start to find some of the answers

441
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: in the way that you're describing. But I just think

442
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: it's like a really fascinating lens through which this person

443
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: is um is taking on this question because it is

444
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: so related to you know, almost like most things in life.

445
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: It's about like the disconnect between expectations and reality, right,

446
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: and we set up the expectations to be that men

447
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: get sort of yeah, get it, get it all handles

448
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: to them on a flatter h then you you end

449
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: up with that that frustrating disconnect for a lot of men. Definitely, Yeah,

450
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean there's one of the things that points out

451
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: is that there's still a great deal of structurally inequality.

452
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: So you know, we're seeing these differences in performance metrics,

453
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: like at the educational level, but the c suite is

454
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: still you know, largely male, even though it's moving in

455
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: more equal direction, but like there's still a pay gap.

456
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: And it does make me wonder like the structures of

457
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: masculinity that we've created across cultures. Like Chelsea, you talked

458
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: about the original men's movement, and I know, people like

459
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: there there seems to be a resurgent thing of like

460
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: these like men's groups and and you know meetings that

461
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: are meet men's meetings that are designed to undo the

462
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: the toxic like things that you were taught about what

463
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: it means to be a man, and like that seems

464
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: to be the way to attack this and not going

465
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: back to the unequal way. Like I I talked about

466
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: how when it comes to like white supremacy as well,

467
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: like there is like the the people who benefit from

468
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: these structures that kind of encode or enforcing quality like

469
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: that at some level they even recognize, like may maybe

470
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: it's not their conscious mind, but at some level they

471
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: I think that's where a lot of the anger and

472
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: the self hatred that like comes out as like outward

473
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: hatred comes from. Is the recognition that like they're not superior,

474
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: you know, and they're benefiting from this narrative that is

475
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: demonstrably not true, and like that's where a lot of

476
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: the like kind of conflict and violence comes from, as

477
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: well as the fact that you know, so so many

478
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: of the structure of masculinity that's still like you know,

479
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 1: are still around. Like my kids just pick up an

480
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: interest in guns and ship like that just through osmosis,

481
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: through like school books and stuff like. It's violence is

482
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: part of this structure that still hasn't been like rooted out.

483
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: And I am I being naive though that I do

484
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: feel like that it is changing the language around masculinity.

485
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just feels like, for you know,

486
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: most of the people I know under the age of

487
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: I just kind of marvel if I'm being honest, you know,

488
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: and not granted I run in certain circles or whatever,

489
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: but I just feel like, you know, the level of

490
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: sort of language and empathy and openness with emotions and

491
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: you know, ideas about what consent means, Like it is

492
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: so much more expansive than when I was growing up.

493
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: And you know, I would think I was like progressively

494
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: minded and tried to behave in all the right ways,

495
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: but I just didn't have that language wasn't even handed,

496
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: that the culture wasn't sort of really pointing me in

497
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: the right direction in a way that I don't know,

498
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'm being naive or overly hopeful, but it

499
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: does feel like there has been some real shift around

500
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: the way that young men talk about being young men

501
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: that I yeah, that I find kind of hopeful. And

502
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 1: I think that that's a good point because in our

503
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: cultural moment, everything feels like the worst that it's ever been.

504
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: But you just go back five years, ten years, fifteen years,

505
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: a hundred years, and there is a steady movement toward

506
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: progress and undoing toxic qualities in all ways, And I

507
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: think we have to sometimes stop and value that we

508
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: are making progress because it's so easy to see these

509
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: individual things happen day by day, and I think in

510
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: some ways things are getting worse than they were five

511
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: years ago. But but generally, by and by we're kind

512
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: of you went okay, which is you know, you know anyone.

513
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: But there's always a backlash, right, so that's that they

514
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: took hard against I mean, there's always Yeah. I'm working

515
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: on a series about Hollywood history, and in it we

516
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: do an episode about Errol Flynn who was like an awful,

517
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: awful person, you know, treated women terribly, was accused of people,

518
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: and you know sort of like lived in a thirties

519
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: and forties era of very toxic masculinity. But then he

520
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: like hung around for a long time, and you know

521
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: when the fifties and sixties was like still kind of

522
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: like hanging around and hadn't been quote unquote canceled in

523
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: any sort of hangful way. But the thing that I

524
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: realized from there was that like every generation of men

525
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: can tell themselves that, you know, they're put upon and

526
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 1: that they don't have it as good as the as

527
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: the boys from the who were ten years older, who

528
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: could have you know, were boys ten years ago. Boys

529
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: could just be boys, and now we have to put

530
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: you know, deal with all this bs. And that's like,

531
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: that's the most consistent thing is that men feel aggrieved

532
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: and put upon, and then they just get to act

533
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: however they want to act. Exactly if you're a victim,

534
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: than anything you do is a retaliatory right. You can

535
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: do anything if you Yeah, yeah, I think there's a

536
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: built in fragility to a lot of the structures of

537
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: masculinity that men are kind of taught to just yeah there.

538
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: There's an interesting quote in the article when they talk

539
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: about like a manifesto from the thirties and the author

540
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: of the manifesto Bovoir, Jaqueline Bovoi, but writing that the

541
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: most mediocre of males feels himself a demi god demigod

542
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: as compared with women, and just that like to to

543
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: actually go around believing that on a day to day

544
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: basis and be coming into contact with evidence that it

545
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: wasn't true constantly like and then just having to double

546
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: down like that, it makes sense to me that there

547
00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: would be some damage, some baggage from those structures. That's that, though.

548
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: I think something has has genuinely changed in the last

549
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: five eight years or so, which is the appetite for

550
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: mediocrity I think is no longer there and people just

551
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: wanting to call it out, see through it, you know,

552
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: not accepted for themselves. You know, obviously there will always

553
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: be people who, especially white males, who fail up and

554
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: kind of scirped by and slough off off hard work.

555
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: But I do really think that that has genuinely shifted

556
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: in some in some meaningful way. I think it's definitely shifting.

557
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: But I think at least part of what we're seeing

558
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: with this kind of the some of the struggles that

559
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: we're seeing are echoes and you know, past generations still

560
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: being around and you know, educating, and yeah, so I

561
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: think i'll just say really quick that if you guys

562
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: are interested in this topic, we did we put our

563
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: heart and soul into an episode called Men's Rights of

564
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: American Hysteria, and it really looks at the whole movement

565
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: of men's rights starting back in the seventies up until

566
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: the modern day and try to take not an impartial

567
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: look because we can't do that, but you know, just

568
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: really try to understand sort of the emotions and and

569
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: uh thinking behind that movement through the decades. We will

570
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: link off to that in the foot notes. But that

571
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: sounds wonderful. Also, you just did an episode about how

572
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: high school students used to have to swim in the nude.

573
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: We did not not really related to this subject, but yeah, yeah,

574
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: it's uh, it was up until the seventies, many many,

575
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: many public high schools boys swam naked and that was

576
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: just totally normal and it has to do with hygiene

577
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But we actually interview Robin Washington who's

578
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: a reporter and uh, someone who had to swim naked

579
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: in high school and he gave us belowdown and yeah,

580
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: lawsuit city, that's what he calls it. Now, all right,

581
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: let's talk really briefly. So the Biden White House is

582
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: going to let the coronavirus Public Health Emergency expire in May,

583
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: and so, you know, around five hundred people and they

584
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: are still dying of COVID's currently become a top ten

585
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: leading cause of death among children, and imagining this was

586
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: a decision made in consultation with public health experts. But

587
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: it seems at least the narrative that's being portrayed in

588
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: the media is that is being motivated by political maneuvering.

589
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: The Republican House, i believe, was about to introduce a

590
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: bill called the Pandemic Is Overact, which we don't Pandemic

591
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: is Overact is there's just gonna be a fuck you

592
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: Joe Biden Act at some point like right there. Yeah,

593
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: and then he did it and they were like, yeah,

594
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: well that's what we're gonna say to do. So it's

595
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: good to see that he's taken our lead. And there's

596
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: just a bunch of you know, pissing contests happening. But

597
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: one of the major changes that could come about as

598
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: the result of ending the state of emergency would be

599
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: the end terminating Title forty two, the public health measure

600
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: that has limited the inflow of migrants at the border.

601
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: But of course the Republicans are in favor of keeping

602
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: Title forty two restrictions and arguing Title forty two is

603
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: not tied to the PhD. So I don't know he's Biden, meanwhile,

604
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: is attempting to controversially expand the powers of Title forty two,

605
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: So he's It just seems this is kind of what

606
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: I had in mind when I heard that he was

607
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: going to, like from his strategists that look for a

608
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: pivot to the center coming in the second half of

609
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: his term after after the mid terms, because this logic

610
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: that said that both you know, we we after the

611
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: day after the mid terms, we were like, wow, like,

612
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: how are they going to cover or failed to cover

613
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, Fetterman one and you know,

614
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: beat somebody who was like more of a mainstream Democratic

615
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: candidate and like was kind of a big d NC

616
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: hopeful and then and Connor Lamb and then defeated you know,

617
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: a very well funded candidate that had the entire power

618
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: of Trump and Mega behind him, Like, how do they

619
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: cover that without being like, it seems like there might

620
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: be a genuine appetite for left of Democrat policies, and

621
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: they've just kind of, I don't know, declaring that the

622
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: pandemic has moved to a different phase should not be

623
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: related to these conversations, right, It should not be a

624
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: political act. It should not pull in all of these

625
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: other things. I mean, there's plenty of other places you

626
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: can point to the Biden administration and be like, well,

627
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see, you know what if we're going

628
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: to see their true centrist instincts revealed here, But like

629
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: this is, you know, another example to me of just

630
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: kind of like how much the well was poisoned, especially

631
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: with the pandemic and politicized and you know, I mean,

632
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: it's so strange to me that every conversation about the

633
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: pandemic doesn't start with the simple fact that like Donald

634
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: Trump was president when it first happened, and that cast

635
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 1: a die that we're still living with, and that everything

636
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: is politicized as a result, because this was a man

637
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: who from the very beginning saw no other incentive, but

638
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: to politicize, you know, it's like day two of the

639
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: guy was like, oh, well, if we just don't count

640
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: the cases, that there won't be any cases, you know,

641
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: and it's like so and you know, so then to

642
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: like criticize or look for political positioning within decisions in

643
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: the content. I mean, it's just so we're just so

644
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: far around the bend on making sensible, reasonable decisions around

645
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: around COVID is like it is so dispiriting, but like,

646
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: the pandemic is in a different place than it was

647
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: a year ago, six months or like we know that,

648
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: we see that, and so like I would be open

649
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: to the idea that the pandemic emergency might be over,

650
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: but it's we're just so lost at sea in terms

651
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: of being able to really evaluate things like that without

652
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: it completely getting screwed up in all the all the

653
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: ways we're describing. Yeah, I do feel like the timing

654
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: is unfortunate, but yeah, well we'll be keeping an eye

655
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: on it to see how consistent this pivot to the

656
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: center is. But yeah, I don't, I don't know. Here.

657
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 1: Hearing that that was their takeaway from the mid terms

658
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: was pretty pretty frustrating to me. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean,

659
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: I'll be curious to see how much, you know, the

660
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: Santis is gonna go all in or at least half

661
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: in on like a bunch of sort of pandemic related

662
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: grievance stuff. And I'm curious to see what the salides

663
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: of that is. You know. I wonder if he's out

664
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,439
Speaker 1: there a year from now just railing against masks, whether

665
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: people are just gonna be like, yeah, like really like

666
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I got angry about that and Summer twenty,

667
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: but like, I don't know, I'd be curious. We were

668
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: talking about how like there isn't that much like content

669
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: that really resonates with people about the pandemic at this point.

670
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: It doesn't. It seems like people are just like, yeah,

671
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: we've we were moving along and don't want to talk

672
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: about that anymore. I don't know if that will apply

673
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: to them being still furious that they ever had to

674
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: wear a mask in publix or whatever, But we'll see.

675
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come

676
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:37,959
Speaker 1: back and talk subtitles. And we're back and our writer

677
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: jam is pointing out this trend that I wasn't really

678
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: fully aware of. I thought I thought we were all

679
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: doing this, but apparently the media has decided that gen

680
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: Z just loves watching shows with subtitles, So there's a

681
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: headline gen Z more likely to use captions when viewing

682
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: video content. Young people watch TV with subtitles more than

683
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: older viewers. Surveys says, that's a local Fox story. Why

684
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: do younger generations love subtitles? So people have you know,

685
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: done studies on this, because it makes you know, the

686
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,479
Speaker 1: streaming content makes money, and it's makes a ton of sense,

687
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: and it doesn't just apply to gen Z. The main

688
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: reason young people use subtitles and reason I use subtitles

689
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: is muddled audio. The they've actually changed where the speakers

690
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: are located on TVs. There they used to have front

691
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: facing speakers and now they have them facing the wall

692
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: behind the flat screens, so the whole front of the

693
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: TV can just be uh screen essentially. Accents that are

694
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: difficult to understand was also an explanation that was given.

695
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 1: And then not wanting to disturb roommates or family, which

696
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: ties into yeah, it's it's politeness and the fact that

697
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: younger people especially are suffering from an incredibly out of

698
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: control housing and real estate market and yet they're still polite, Yeah, exactly,

699
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: but in terms of understanding accents. With streaming, people are

700
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: now able to watch more international shows than ever before,

701
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: so that probably makes sense. And also actors give more

702
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: naturalistic performances than ever before, which you know, I always

703
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 1: what I would like. I had a bias against black

704
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: and white movies for a long time because when I

705
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: would watch the performances and everyone would talk and clicked

706
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: ways that seemed like they were like an announcer for

707
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: something instead of trying to pretend to be an actual human.

708
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: But they enunciated the hell out of what they were saying,

709
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: you know, like they that mid Atlantic accent. Really it's

710
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: not subtle. And then there's also like a a trend

711
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: in sound mixers to mix the widest surround sound available

712
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: and have a dynamic rain, so like big sounds are

713
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: very big and quiet sounds are very quiet, which is

714
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: you know, designed with a movie theater in mind, but

715
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: not necessarily at home. That's part of what I was

716
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: thinking about that. You know, I think this is a

717
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,439
Speaker 1: pre pandemic thing, for sure, but the pandemic like accelerated

718
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: so many trends. But I said, you know, what percentage

719
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: of movies that we would normally have watched in a

720
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: theater where it was completely silent, perfect sound system, no distractions,

721
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: no worry of bothering our neighbors. We're now doing a

722
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: significant percentage of that at home, where all these other

723
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: factors are coming into play, and so maybe that's just

724
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: a level part of it. And like before, I mean

725
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: way before, when I was a child and watching a

726
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: movie at home, it was either a VHS tape or

727
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 1: it was something that had that was like being broadcast

728
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: on television. It was like you know that there was

729
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: attention being paid to how it was being distributed, right,

730
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: and like they were doing a mix specifically for those

731
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: formats presumably, whereas like streaming is like you know, you're

732
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: getting it and it's having to be delivered to you

733
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: and probably compressed to get two like where you're where

734
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: you're able to watch it, and so like some of

735
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: the quality is being diminished, like in the same way

736
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: that you know when when you take a video and

737
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: text it, sometimes it is the size of a postage

738
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: stamp and you're like, oh, ship, that is unintelligible. You know,

739
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: movies are having to deal with similar things based on

740
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: like a thousand different types of streaming devices that they're

741
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: being distributed to, and so it just it feels like

742
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: it's it's harder to control things like that. And then

743
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: we didn't even have like the option to have subtitles before,

744
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: Like with VHS tapes, there was no I don't think

745
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: anyway that there was any way to turn those on,

746
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: and you definitely couldn't do that. And even on TV

747
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: it was like they weren't good, the subtitles were. They

748
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: didn't do a good job. The one thing I'll say

749
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: about subtitles that I dislike is that once in a

750
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: while it will ruin the scene because it will come

751
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: like before some take reveal and you're like, oh, well, okay,

752
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: I can't do it on comedies because yeah, it ruins

753
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: the timing of the of the joke. For the most

754
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: it works the other way too, though, where if you're

755
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of us, if you're half

756
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: distracted looking at something else or whatever, you can you

757
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: can hear a line be like, oh that was notable

758
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: or whatever, look up quickly and still catch the lingering

759
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: suffer at all. So you know, that's a movement that

760
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: I have to assume is out there but you know,

761
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: because I think that's how like closed captioning works, Like

762
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: on a live TV brought like a live sporting event,

763
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: if you have the close captions on, they're coming up,

764
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: you know, three to five seconds after the words are

765
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: spoken by the commentator, like something in between that and

766
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: where we have it now where a lot of times

767
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: they're coming up before the words are spoken, Like it

768
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: should be either immediate as they're being spoken, or you know,

769
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: like a second delay so you can look up and yeah,

770
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: it's not you're you're not distracted by knowing what happened

771
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: ahead of time. I mean, this is this This This

772
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: is where I'm like, why hasn't someone sort of played

773
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: with this phenomenon. They know that so many people are

774
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: doing this, why not you know, mess with the subtitles

775
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: or or be more artful in them and know that like, Okay,

776
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: the close captioning needs to be timed a little better

777
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: and we need to actually recognize how people are watching.

778
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: And conversely, like you mentioned, one of the main reasons

779
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: for this is, oh, they're mixing the movies differently, or

780
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: oh they put the speakers in a different part of TV.

781
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: But I'm like, I still don't understand why why are

782
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: they mixing the movies that that you can't hear them?

783
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: Why do they like your job as a mixer to

784
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: get people to hear What's like, that's your job, right,

785
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: Your job as a TV MANU speaker manufacturer is to

786
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: make speakers that people can hear, Like I still or

787
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: something like, yeah, and is it that? Is it that

788
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: the people who are making these and doing the like

789
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: final quality control check are still watching it in a

790
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: totally silent room where they're paying a percent attention, So

791
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: they're just like not envisioning the real use case in

792
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: which is happening. But then I'm like, that's literally your

793
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: job is to know that, like it's going out into

794
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: the world and people are gonna use it in this

795
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: worst I just don't understand. People seem to just like

796
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: slough off this thing. I'm like, well, it's mixed differently

797
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: or whatever, and it's like, well, that's not my fault. Yeah,

798
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: I've noticed that it happened on HBO stuff a lot.

799
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: I noticed that happening on Fleshman Is in Trouble when

800
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: I was just watching that on Hulu. Apparently there was

801
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: like a big spoiler in the Mandalorian that like gave

802
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: away some piece of information. I haven't watched that show,

803
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: but like give away some pieces of information of like

804
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: who someone is because they set a line and it's

805
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: their name who was saying it, and it was like, oh,

806
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 1: that was supposed to be a reveal that happened later

807
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: in the scene. Right, So yeah, it does seem like

808
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: there's just I mean, I think this is a problem

809
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 1: that is probably under rated. Is just there's two much

810
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: content like that. It's the biggest problem with like social

811
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: media too. There's just like too much content too like

812
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: efficiently and effectively moderate, right, And when it comes to

813
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: streaming content, it's like there's too many different versions of

814
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: this going out to too many different devices and like

815
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: at too many different internet speeds, you know, to this

816
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: has been a known problem for a while. I just yeah,

817
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: I just think it's like they sure to figured something

818
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: out at this point. Yeah, and especially because there's so

819
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: obviously we have articles written about how popular subtitles are

820
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: to go back to that, it's like, I feel like

821
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: this is a good job creator. Just have somebody really

822
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: who knows what they're do. Wing timing could be great.

823
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: I don't know it just feels like really weird that

824
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: they're not putting any money towards this because they also

825
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: get screwed up a lot. Does that happen to you guys,

826
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: where it's like if you pause it and started again,

827
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: then they're totally screwed up and there's just no tim yeah,

828
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: and then they're like, okay, great, it's this is from

829
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: ten seconds ago and or ten seconds ahead and talk

830
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: about ruining things. I mean, it's similar to the whole

831
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: like darkness conversation right with prestige TV and movies wherever

832
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: it's too dark and you know, the same sort of thing.

833
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: It's like you get this response where it's like, well,

834
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: you know, because the best TVs now can show the

835
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: darkest stuff. It's like, well, no one very If the

836
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: majority of people don't have the best TV, then like

837
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: you should make your shows different and more accommodating. And

838
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: you know when that whatever it was, that that House

839
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: of Dragon episode that was literally unwatchable to me because

840
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: it was so dark. I was like, I couldn't read

841
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: that as anything but an aggressive act on the part

842
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: of the film. It was like, you know that this

843
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: is an issue for people, and you still was to

844
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: do this, I was like, pretty I think it stopped

845
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: watching the show at that point. At the same time,

846
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: would you be, like Christopher Nolan, like you need to

847
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: start making decisions based on the fact that I'm watching

848
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: your movie on an iPhone. You know, there's gotta be

849
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: a middle ground. Maybe, Yeah, there's gotta be a middle ground.

850
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: There's gotta be a middle ground, yeah, or like be

851
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: or like be okay with people saying I'm not going

852
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: to watch your movie because it's too frustrating to watch

853
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: and just like have us you know. But I think

854
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: often it's it's made to feel like it's my fault

855
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: for not having the best TV or watching you know,

856
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: in a certain way or whatever. Yeah, Victim think all right,

857
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: we've got a couple of minutes here, Jody, do you

858
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: want to talk about your show Good Sport and what

859
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: what what happens in the show? Well, yeah, you know,

860
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: it's it's called good Sport. It's from Ted uh and

861
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: Push Skin has helped make it as well. But it's

862
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: it's an eight part show. It's about kind of like

863
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: exploring a bunch of interesting questions that I've had that

864
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: I feel like sports can help understand and sort of like,

865
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: over the course of making it, it became, I think,

866
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: in a way, like an argument that sports is a

867
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: really good way to understand the world. Uh. And so

868
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, we do episodes about like why stadium deals

869
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: are always such boondoggles, but really it's kind of like,

870
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: well because they reflect what's so messy about democracy to

871
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: begin with. And we talk about getting in the zone,

872
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,959
Speaker 1: you know, and how that mental mental toughness can really

873
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: make the difference between winning and losing, and obviously that

874
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: has parallels for the rest of our lives, and so

875
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, I say this, I say this

876
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: in the first episode, but kind of a lot of

877
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: the big lessons that I've learned in life I've learned

878
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: through sports, through playing sports and watching sports and just

879
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: sort of being involved in sports. And I just kind

880
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: of like, in a weird way, I feel like the

881
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: show is a bit of a defensive of sports as

882
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: a way to kind of organize and learn about the world.

883
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's eight episodes and sort of narrative. It's

884
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: like very there's some essayistic stuff in there. I kind

885
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: of I'm a little more voicy and personal than than

886
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: I have been in some other of my projects, and yeah,

887
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean I think I've always made I've done a

888
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: bunch of sports stuff before, and it's usually like barely

889
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: about sports, right, It's usually about other stuff. I think

890
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: there's actually, over the course of eight episodes, there's I

891
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: think it's literally forty seconds of actually describing sports being played,

892
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: and the rest is just kind of like using sports

893
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: as a as a way to explore some ideas. But

894
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: I'm happy with it. I'm talking about the zones. Does

895
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: the sort of distracting yourself thing that we were talking

896
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: about earlier with Yeah, I was thinking and talking because

897
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: like I remember reading somewhere that you know, humming tears,

898
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: humming orself a song or something is like one of

899
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: the ways that with with one picture, doc ellis taking LSD,

900
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: which recommend but it got him to pigeone hitter. We

901
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: talked about that very explicitly, and I actually when in

902
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: that episode talk about how whenever I've played sports, I

903
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: have like this little running song that goes through my

904
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: head over and over and it's like, if you if

905
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: you like, we're to walk onto like a soccer field

906
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 1: during the mid off, like a big game, and close

907
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: your eyes and just listen it would sound like one

908
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,760
Speaker 1: person is muttering to themselves, one person is humming to themselves.

909
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: Other people are having like a monocuous conversation, another person's

910
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: like fiddling with there. It's you know, everyone's got there,

911
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: just little and and and a big part of it

912
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: is that when you keep your mind occupied but not

913
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: either too high or too low, but just sort of

914
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: at that neutral occupied state, then you're letting you Then

915
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 1: you're priming yourself to sort of enter that that zone,

916
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: that flow state, and so forth and so not been

917
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 1: ruined sports like overthinking. That's what choking comes from, this

918
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: total thinking about the thing that their body naturally does.

919
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: Like that, I think I agree, Like that's a great

920
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: metaphor for just like getting out of your own way

921
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: and like the power of the unconscious mind versus the

922
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: conscious minds, Like don't like overrated your conscious mind and

923
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: underrated like get get out of your your unconscious mind's way.

924
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: It's like mor ingy this thing you you realize, and

925
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the irony of it is like

926
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: there is so much thinking being done around the zone,

927
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: which is basically we do all this thinking and all

928
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: this work to get to a point where hopefully we

929
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: just turn our brains off and and just play your

930
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: perform and feel and stop thinking. Right, But it takes

931
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 1: a lot of mental work. Yeah, it takes a lot

932
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: of mental work and focus to get to that unfocused place.

933
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, and I've loved talking about that stuff, thinking

934
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: about that stuff, and it was nice to be able

935
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: to do an episode about that and sort of get

936
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: into it. But yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, this podcast sounds great.

937
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,439
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. And uh, well, if we're in plugging Bote,

938
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: I do have a live event February eight, which is

939
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: the day the first episode comes out at the Bellhouse

940
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, And I'd love for people to people to

941
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: come by great where where can people where else can

942
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: people find you and follow you? I mean that show

943
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: good Sport is gonna be wherever you get your podcast.

944
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: And then I do this political history show called This

945
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: Day in Political History that's through Radiotopia, and that's you know,

946
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: wherever you get us, so you'll find me, you'll find me. Yeah.

947
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: You just had a great episode on Christmas with yesterday's

948
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: guest man. Guest Oh yeah, about about Nancy Reagan's and

949
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan's dabbling with astrology. We did a whole episode

950
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 1: about that too. I know. Well, Chelsea, yeah, this is money.

951
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 1: This is the excuse to finally actually have you know,

952
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: make the connection here. You know, I'd love to have

953
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: you on at some point. Oh my god, I love it. Yes,

954
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: this is so fantastic. Yeah, Jody, is there a tweet

955
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 1: or work of media you've been enjoying? Oh? I saw it. Actually,

956
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: I did see a tweet the other day which is

957
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: related to good sport. You know, kind of been thinking

958
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: about kind of like how people view sports and how

959
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: it's just sort of like weirdly acceptable that like some

960
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 1: people are just like I don't care about sports. I

961
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: don't think it matters. It's like that's always been very

962
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: strange to me, Like you don't have to play sports,

963
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: you have to love sports, but to just sort of

964
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: just people don't say, like I don't think music is important, right,

965
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: it's just and but for some reason people say that

966
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: about But anyway, so the morning that the Oscars were

967
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: getting announced and Twitter was like sort of chattering about that.

968
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: I saw someone right a tweet that I think was, oh,

969
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: did a movie's ball happen? Which is just such a

970
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: nice inversion of what a lot of people do when

971
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 1: there's a big sporting event going on, just being like, oh,

972
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: I don't care about sports, like this performative, like, well,

973
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: what's happening? So someone just oh, did a movie's ball happening? Yeah? Yeah,

974
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: I love that tweet? Love that Chelsea. Where can people

975
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: find you? Follow you all that good stuff? Um? You

976
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: can find me mostly on Instagram. I kind of have

977
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: stepped away from Twitter so that I can survive my life.

978
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 1: But at American Hysterio podcast on Instagram and then at

979
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: a mayor Hysteria on Twitter. We're on there sometimes, h

980
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: for sure, but I tend to be more on Instagram.

981
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: There you and is there a tweet or work of

982
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: media that you've been enjoying. Yes, but I feel guilty

983
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: because I didn't write down who tweeted it, So I'm

984
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: so sorry, but it is doctor. Congrats on the new baby.

985
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: What are you going to name him? Newt Gingrich's mom

986
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: Newt Gingrich. Yeah, that was a decision that was made

987
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: at some point. You can find me on Twitter at

988
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:27,240
Speaker 1: Jack Underscore O'Brien, uh tweet I've been enjoying. Chase Rano

989
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: tweeted horrible news and it was like a from the

990
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: Mexican Delegation Office of the Press Secretary statement by Chase

991
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 1: Rano regarding an embarrassing thing. It is with great disappointment

992
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: and remorse that I admit the following. I ate Arby's today.

993
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 1: We're still I ate it at ten thirty in the morning.

994
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why eating Arby's while the Price is

995
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: Right is airing on television makes it worse than eating

996
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: Arby's after the Price is Right has already ended. I

997
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 1: just know that it does. I apologize. I apologize to

998
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: my family and to my friends, and to anyone else

999
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: affected by this news. I have to do better. I

1000
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: will do better. Please pray for my soul. I think

1001
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: it's fine, but to eat Arby's while the Price is

1002
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: Right is still on. But you know, we all deal

1003
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: with these things in our own way. You can find

1004
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at the Daily

1005
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and

1006
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: a website, Daily Zigeist dot com, where we post our

1007
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: episodes and our footnotes. We lick off to the information

1008
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: that we talked about in today's episode, as well as

1009
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: a song that we think you might enjoy. Super producer justin.

1010
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: Do you have a song that you think people might enjoy?

1011
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: I do um. This is a track from an artist

1012
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: Charlotte Do Santos that's called red Clay. Such a good track.

1013
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: The vocals on this are top quality, the songwriting is amazing.

1014
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: If you want to feel like you are transported into

1015
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: like a smokey jazz lounge in the UK or something

1016
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: like that, yeah, throw this track on. That's Charlotte Do Santos,

1017
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: Red Clay and you can find that song and the

1018
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: footnotes foot notes. The Daily sit Gays is a production

1019
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,

1020
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

1021
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. That is going to

1022
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: do it for us this morning, back this afternoon to

1023
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: tell you what is trending and we will talk to

1024
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: y'all then. Height M.