Speaker 1: Now President Biden is expected to visit Israel, Jordan and
Speaker 1: others tomorrow as we continue to watch the fighting the
Speaker 1: conflict between Israel and Hamas. US Sexual of State Anthony Blincoln,
Speaker 1: we know has been there and held hours of talks
Speaker 1: with Israel ahead of the visit by President Biden. This
Speaker 1: is a trip that's meant to show us support. It
Speaker 1: comes at an absolutely fraught time, just ahead potentially of
Speaker 1: what we expect to be some kind of ground operation
Speaker 1: by the Israelis in Gaza.
Speaker 2: Yes, and so we got a chance to speak to
Speaker 2: somebody who advises the Israeli government and with that in mind,
Speaker 2: important to ask questions about what they're trying to achieve,
Speaker 2: the loss of life on both sides here, what happened
Speaker 2: on October the seventh, and then also what's happened in
Speaker 2: Gaza since then, important to ask about that and indeed
Speaker 2: the possibility of getting humanitarian aid in Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we spoke to Mark Regev, the senior advisor to
Speaker 1: the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanya, who just at the
Speaker 1: point that we had some reports out that these southern
Speaker 1: part of Gaza was also being hit by missiles by
Speaker 1: fire from Israel. Of course Mark Regev also the former
Speaker 1: Israeli ambassador to the UK. We began by that Associated
Speaker 1: Press report of Israeli's air force striking southern Gaza and
Speaker 1: what Mark Regev thinks about it.
Speaker 3: So of course we target Hamas. We want to destroy
Speaker 3: hamasa's military machine and dismantle its political structure in Gaza.
Speaker 3: That's our goal. And at the same time, in parallel,
Speaker 3: we want to do what can be done to safeguard
Speaker 3: the life of the innocent civilian population of the Gaza strip.
Speaker 3: So it's quite possible we are targeting HAMAS facilities in
Speaker 3: the south, but we're doing so in a way that
Speaker 3: we are making every effort possible not to see any
Speaker 3: collateral damage. In every war, unfortunately, in recent history civilians
Speaker 3: have been caught up and there have been civilian casualties.
Speaker 3: We know that, but as a democratic country that abides
Speaker 3: by the rules of war, we are making a maximum
Speaker 3: effort to target civilian to target the commas, terrorists and
Speaker 3: and and safeguard civilians. And that's why we've asked people
Speaker 3: to vacate the north, where we know there will be
Speaker 3: very complex and vicious fighting.
Speaker 4: We want them out of harm's way.
Speaker 3: We don't want them caught up in the crossfire between
Speaker 3: us and come us.
Speaker 2: Okay and Joe, you've called for them to move to
Speaker 2: the south. That's been controversial in itself, and we've seen
Speaker 2: you and and other.
Speaker 3: Aagets well from that COMMAS is active in the south,
Speaker 3: we will strike comas.
Speaker 2: What I should what I should say is many aid
Speaker 2: groups have suggested that it was going to be very challenging,
Speaker 2: and they've used more extreme words than that to move
Speaker 2: people to the south. But having moved to the south,
Speaker 2: many people in Guars might have thought that they would
Speaker 2: be safe, but you're suggesting that they are not safe
Speaker 2: from from becoming as you describe, collateral damage in the south.
Speaker 3: So i'd stress we've asked them to leave the north
Speaker 3: because that where we know there is vicious there is
Speaker 3: terrible fighting ahead of us. We're going to send in
Speaker 3: ground forces quite possibly, and they will face house to
Speaker 3: house fighting. KAMAS is built in there in the north,
Speaker 3: especially in Gaza City, where they have their military infrastructure
Speaker 3: under civilian neighborhods, their tunnels, their bunkers, their command and control,
Speaker 3: their arms depots, their rocket launchers, that's all there, and
Speaker 3: we have to destroy that, and that's why we've asked
Speaker 3: civilians to vacate in the south.
Speaker 4: If there are specific Cramas.
Speaker 3: Targets that need to be targeted, we will target them.
Speaker 3: Hamas cannot have immunity anywhere, not in Gaza, not outside Gas.
Speaker 3: But we are not targeting civilians in the south, and
Speaker 3: it's most safer for them to be in the south
Speaker 3: than in the north. Can I guarantee to you that
Speaker 3: no civilian will be hurt in southern Gaza. I'd like
Speaker 3: to be able to, but unfortunately the realities of modern
Speaker 3: war make that impossible. But I can guarantee that we
Speaker 3: will make a maximum effort to avoid that happening. At
Speaker 3: the same time, Hamas has a deliberate policy of keeping
Speaker 3: people in arms way when we ask people to evacuate
Speaker 3: future So then.
Speaker 1: Why not why not allow the Raa the Rafa crossing
Speaker 1: to open into Egypt. There seems to be all sides,
Speaker 1: but blaming each other for that board and not being
Speaker 1: allowed to open, is there going to be any change?
Speaker 1: Some some view that there would be a period of
Speaker 1: time when the Rafa crossing would be open, and that's
Speaker 1: happened in several days in a row. Is that going to.
Speaker 4: Happen now, Well, it was supposed to happen yesterday.
Speaker 3: We worked with the relevant international partners to make it
Speaker 3: happen yesterday, and we expected yesterday already there was supposed
Speaker 3: to be an exod of foreign nationals. Unfortunately Hamas prevented
Speaker 3: that from happening. They closed their side of the crossing.
Speaker 3: And this is another example of Hamas doesn't give a
Speaker 3: hoot about innocent civil Your life not is really and
Speaker 3: in this case not Palestinian.
Speaker 2: Will it be attempted again today? Will you be attempting
Speaker 2: to open the Raffa crossing again?
Speaker 3: We are working with foreign governments to facilitate the exit
Speaker 3: of civilians through the Rafa crossing. And your questions it
Speaker 3: should have happened yesterday, must prevented it from happening. They
Speaker 3: are holding Look, they're holding some two hundred Israelis hostage
Speaker 3: inside Gaza. They are using Gaza's Palestinian civilians as a
Speaker 3: human shield for their war machine. And now as of
Speaker 3: yesterday they started using the foreign nationals also as hostages,
Speaker 3: refusing to allow them to leave.
Speaker 1: That's the truth, Ambassador Ambassadora. According to your public comments,
Speaker 1: you've been present in meetings recently between Anthony Blincoln and
Speaker 1: Netanya Who the Israeli Prime minister, what is and his
Speaker 1: war cabinet thinking now about pursuing harmus. Does Israel need
Speaker 1: President Biden's approval support? How would you characterize that?
Speaker 3: First of all, worry thankful and appreciative of American support.
Speaker 3: And American support has been in diplomacy, in their moral clarity,
Speaker 3: in the way they've described Tramas as an Isis organization.
Speaker 3: On the Sunday night, President Biden even made a comparison
Speaker 3: with the Nazis, and he's correct because the attack by Tramash,
Speaker 3: the massacre of October seventh, was the greatest single act
Speaker 3: of anti Semitic violence since nineteen forty five, since the
Speaker 3: terrible years.
Speaker 4: Of the Holocaust.
Speaker 3: And so we're thankful, We're thankful for that verbal support,
Speaker 3: for that diplomatic support. But also they've given us material support.
Speaker 3: They are helping replenish our stockpiles of weaponry, and they've
Speaker 3: of course moved their two aircraft carrier groups to the
Speaker 3: eastern Mediterranean. I think that's a deterrence to other dangerous
Speaker 3: actors in the region not to think that this is
Speaker 3: a time to attack Israel that I think they've been
Speaker 3: playing a very positive role. And when the president here
Speaker 3: is arriving tomorrow in Israel, we will welcome him as
Speaker 3: a friend, as an ally, and we look forward to
Speaker 3: rolling out the red garbet.
Speaker 1: When you talk about foreign nationals and the UK, the
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Vishasinak talked about ten missing UK nationals.
Speaker 1: Are you saying that foreign nationals are being held hostage
Speaker 1: in Gaza now? Also if they're not being allowed to
Speaker 1: cross the Rapha crossing into Egypt? Is that what you're saying.
Speaker 3: I'm saying that yesterday people were supposed to leave and
Speaker 3: Hamas prevented them from doing so. Their exit was coordinated
Speaker 3: with Israel, with the relevant foreign governments, and Hamas prevented
Speaker 3: that from happening.
Speaker 4: I can say that for a fact.
Speaker 3: Is that how does one explain that? What words would
Speaker 3: you use? I would say that.
Speaker 4: Using foreign nationals as hostages as well?
Speaker 1: What does a long and costly war mean to you?
Speaker 1: Israel's defense sector, you of Galant saying and telling the
Speaker 1: US Sector of State Blincoln that Israeli forces are preparing
Speaker 1: for a long and costly war. How long? What does
Speaker 1: that mean?
Speaker 3: I think it's important to understand that this is not
Speaker 3: another round of Israel Kamas fighting. You know, since Kamas
Speaker 3: took over the Gaza Strip sixteen years ago, we've had
Speaker 3: numerous rounds of fighting where they shot rockets into Israel
Speaker 3: and we responded and so forth.
Speaker 4: That's no longer the case. This is war.
Speaker 3: What they did on October seventh, they're massacre of our people.
Speaker 3: Oney three hundred Israeli deaths and about two hundred people.
Speaker 4: Held hostage in Gaza.
Speaker 3: This isis type behavior, these atrocities. The status quo that
Speaker 3: was before October senth is unsustainable. Israelis will not stand
Speaker 3: for it anymore. We are acting now to change the
Speaker 3: political realities in the Gaza Strip, and when this is over,
Speaker 3: there will be a different reality there.
Speaker 4: We didn't want this war.
Speaker 3: It was forced upon us, and though we didn't start it,
Speaker 3: we will finish it. And when we finish it, we
Speaker 3: will do so on our terms.
Speaker 1: So what is the mood then, if you have been
Speaker 1: in those meetings between Benjamin Netanyahu and Anthony Blinkett, and
Speaker 1: you're expecting the US president now tomorrow, the German chance
Speaker 1: also today, what is the mood in those meetings? Now?
Speaker 1: Ten days after the her mass attack.
Speaker 3: So there's first of all, we're receiving amazing solidarity from
Speaker 3: friends and allies in North America and in Europe, and
Speaker 3: Israel is appreciative of that support. And I think there's
Speaker 3: a determination in Israel to win this. We have no choice.
Speaker 3: We have to win and win decisively, and we will win,
Speaker 3: and we might pay our price. As our Defense minister said,
Speaker 3: this could take This could take time, and many young
Speaker 3: Israeli soldiers who are going into battle might not come home.
Speaker 3: I myself have a daughter who's a reserve officer and
Speaker 3: she was called up and she's in the South, and
Speaker 3: like hundreds and thousands of Israeli parents, I of course
Speaker 3: I am concerned. But when speaking to my they are
Speaker 3: determined to fight to protect their country from these brutal killers.
Speaker 3: We all saw what they did in the massacre of
Speaker 3: October seventh. We know what they're capable of. This is
Speaker 3: a threat that no people on this planet should have
Speaker 3: to live with, and we are eliminating the threat.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you reference October seventh, and of course,
Speaker 2: and that the loss of life and the tactics used
Speaker 2: and the indiscriminate nature of the killing Kearley coming as
Speaker 2: a huge shock to Israel and around the world. But
Speaker 2: now we're in a situation where more Palestinians have died
Speaker 2: since then in Gaza. I wonder what that means in Israel.
Speaker 3: So, of course, we don't want to see civilian casualties,
Speaker 3: and we're making an effort, as I said a moment ago,
Speaker 3: to keep those as low as are.
Speaker 2: Are you making enough effort though, because you say the
Speaker 2: West supports you, and there's been plenty of calls for support,
Speaker 2: but also calls for restraint.
Speaker 3: So we will act within the rules of war or
Speaker 3: the recognized international rules of war. I'd remind you if
Speaker 3: I can use a historic example, when Molossovich was committing
Speaker 3: war crimes against the people of Kosovo, there was a
Speaker 3: bombing campaign by NATO against Belgrade. It was a just campaign.
Speaker 3: It was a struggle to save lives. Innocent Serbs were killed.
Speaker 3: Now that's a sad fact of war. We don't want
Speaker 3: to see it. We will act to minimize it. But
Speaker 3: if you say to me, and I'm not saying you're
Speaker 3: saying it, but maybe other people are. If you say
Speaker 3: to me that, because there will be civilian casualties Israel
Speaker 3: is not entitled to defend itself, to protect itself from
Speaker 3: this horrific terrorist group who ISIS type behavior was on
Speaker 3: display for everyone to see.
Speaker 4: That's not serious.
Speaker 3: Israel has the right to defend ourselves and we will
Speaker 3: do so within the framework of international law and the
Speaker 3: international rules of ARMKORNG.
Speaker 1: Yes, international law and the rules of international armed conflict.
Speaker 1: But you say that you will end this on your terms.
Speaker 1: What are your terms? What does victory look like? What
Speaker 1: does Gaza? What does Israel look like? If you want
Speaker 1: to end this conflict on your own terms.
Speaker 3: As you say so, we will destroy Hamasa's military capabilities,
Speaker 3: and we will dismantle its political structure inside the Gaza strip.
Speaker 1: And what is left of any cities and towns in
Speaker 1: Gaza at the end of.
Speaker 3: That well, obviously the Kamas targets will be destroyed, but
Speaker 3: we are not targeting Gaza's civilian population. I repeat, But
Speaker 3: if I can use a comparison, I mean the American
Speaker 3: president and European leaders have made a comparison with ISIS. Yes,
Speaker 3: when the West, when the coalition, the International Coalition defeated ISIS,
Speaker 3: ISIS had a few cities.
Speaker 4: There was destruction there too.
Speaker 3: Sometimes when you are fighting a brutal enemy, that enemy
Speaker 3: implants itself in a civilian population. We don't want to
Speaker 3: hurt civilians, but in many ways that is inevitable. We
Speaker 3: will make a maximum effort to keep that number to
Speaker 3: a minimum. But once again, we can't allow Hamas to
Speaker 3: have immunity. We can't allow them to successfully use Gaza
Speaker 3: civilian population as a human shield for their terror machine.
Speaker 2: Anthony Blincn has said that Israel has agreed a plan
Speaker 2: with the US to enable humanitarian aid to reach civilians
Speaker 2: in Gaza. I wonder if you have any more details
Speaker 2: of how that can be done, what that means for water,
Speaker 2: for medical supplies, and the rest.
Speaker 3: We're working very closely with the Americans on that. We
Speaker 3: had extensive meetings yesterday with the Secretary.
Speaker 2: How soon can we expect those supplies to be allowed
Speaker 2: in because we've seen the pictures of the trucks waiting.
Speaker 3: From my point of view that we want humanitarian relief
Speaker 3: for the people of Gaza, but there are questions that
Speaker 3: need to be answered. Anthony Blincoln said specifically that we
Speaker 3: have to be able to quoting by memory, but he
Speaker 3: talked about to make sure that these supplies reach the
Speaker 3: civilian population of Gaza. And why does that need to
Speaker 3: be said, Because Caamas are the only people on the
Speaker 3: ground inside the Gaza strip with weapons and they have
Speaker 3: the ability to hijack supplies. They have the ability to
Speaker 3: take it away from the civilian population.
Speaker 4: They have done so in the past.
Speaker 2: So does that mean you can't send in any so
Speaker 2: you won't send it with Is it possible to send
Speaker 2: in aid then before you are on the ground, before
Speaker 2: Israel is on the ground.
Speaker 3: We believe it's possible, but we have to find safeguards
Speaker 3: in the mechanisms we use. We don't want fuel for
Speaker 3: Ramas rockets, we want fuel for generators in hospitals. And
Speaker 3: I think that's something that all the donors in the
Speaker 3: international community who want to send aid, they have to
Speaker 3: be assured that the aid is reaching the people of
Speaker 3: Gaza and not Ramas's terrorist machine.
Speaker 1: Can an escalation be prevented with Hesperala and Lebanon Leatnia,
Speaker 1: who has warned not to test Israel in the North,
Speaker 1: that testing does seem to be taking place.
Speaker 3: Yes, and it's a worrying situation. We have no interest
Speaker 3: in an escalation in the North. We have no interest
Speaker 3: in a two front war. But Chrisbela is Kamas's twin.
Speaker 3: They are both terrorist groups. The Arab League calls Kisbela
Speaker 3: a terrorist group, and they because they're in the Iranian orbit,
Speaker 3: they could world see this as a moment of opportunity
Speaker 3: to attack Israel, and it's dangerous. But I will say
Speaker 3: the following one. Chrisbela won't take us by surprise like
Speaker 3: Hamas did. We are on guard, we are looking, and
Speaker 3: we are ready. If they force a war upon us,
Speaker 3: we will respond forcibly and decisively. And unfortunately, unfortunately for Lebanon,
Speaker 3: because chrisbel obviously controls the ground, the Lebanese government is
Speaker 3: largely irrelevant.
Speaker 4: They have no power to restrain Krisbela.
Speaker 3: But I have to be clear such a conflict, we
Speaker 3: will hit isbel A hard, and Lebanon, unfortunately, in the process,
Speaker 3: will also base a terrible price.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you about the wider geopolitics at play here?
Speaker 2: Before that the dreadful events of October seventh that were
Speaker 2: talks between Israel and the Saudis about coming to a
Speaker 2: new understanding, new relationships. Has all of that process come
Speaker 2: to an end? There is there room for any of
Speaker 2: those talks to continue.
Speaker 4: I think yes.
Speaker 3: Obviously, while the fighting's going on, that is a touch
Speaker 3: more difficult. But if we succeed, and I believe we will,
Speaker 3: in decisively defeating Ramas, that's a blow against the enemies
Speaker 3: of peace.
Speaker 4: That's a blow.
Speaker 3: Against the extremists, that's a blow against the Iranian coalition.
Speaker 3: That's a blow against terrorism, and that I think can
Speaker 3: create space for more moderate voices.
Speaker 4: And we're speaking to Arab governments.
Speaker 3: They have no a love for Hamas, they have no
Speaker 3: affection for Kamas. They know exactly who Hamas is, and
Speaker 3: I think they would like to see a different reality
Speaker 3: in Gaza too. They are, of course concerned like many others,
Speaker 3: about Parestinian civilian life.
Speaker 4: We are doing much more and.
Speaker 3: It's actually I think it's interesting because Israel is perceived
Speaker 3: as being the enemy of the Palestinians and Hamas is
Speaker 3: the defender, yes, of the Palestinians, but it's rubbish. We
Speaker 3: are doing more to safeguard Palestinian life in this conflict
Speaker 3: than Hamass, which is using the civilians as a human shield,
Speaker 3: and which is actually preventing them from evacuating areas where
Speaker 3: we know there's going to be terrible combat. They you know,
Speaker 3: in Israel and in democratic countries are armed services. Our
Speaker 3: armed forces are used to protect the civilians in Gaza
Speaker 3: Hamas flips it. They use the civilians to protect the military.
Speaker 1: Mark Gregev, thank you so much for your time this
Speaker 1: morning on Boomberg Radio. Senior advisor to the Israeli Prime
Speaker 1: Minist of Benjamin Nettnia, who also formerly Israeli Ambassador to
Speaker 1: the United Kingdom,