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Speaker 1: Now President Biden is expected to visit Israel, Jordan and

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Speaker 1: others tomorrow as we continue to watch the fighting the

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Speaker 1: conflict between Israel and Hamas. US Sexual of State Anthony Blincoln,

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Speaker 1: we know has been there and held hours of talks

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Speaker 1: with Israel ahead of the visit by President Biden. This

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Speaker 1: is a trip that's meant to show us support. It

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Speaker 1: comes at an absolutely fraught time, just ahead potentially of

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Speaker 1: what we expect to be some kind of ground operation

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Speaker 1: by the Israelis in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and so we got a chance to speak to

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Speaker 2: somebody who advises the Israeli government and with that in mind,

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Speaker 2: important to ask questions about what they're trying to achieve,

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Speaker 2: the loss of life on both sides here, what happened

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Speaker 2: on October the seventh, and then also what's happened in

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Speaker 2: Gaza since then, important to ask about that and indeed

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Speaker 2: the possibility of getting humanitarian aid in Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we spoke to Mark Regev, the senior advisor to

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Speaker 1: the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanya, who just at the

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Speaker 1: point that we had some reports out that these southern

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Speaker 1: part of Gaza was also being hit by missiles by

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Speaker 1: fire from Israel. Of course Mark Regev also the former

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Speaker 1: Israeli ambassador to the UK. We began by that Associated

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Speaker 1: Press report of Israeli's air force striking southern Gaza and

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Speaker 1: what Mark Regev thinks about it.

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Speaker 3: So of course we target Hamas. We want to destroy

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Speaker 3: hamasa's military machine and dismantle its political structure in Gaza.

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Speaker 3: That's our goal. And at the same time, in parallel,

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Speaker 3: we want to do what can be done to safeguard

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Speaker 3: the life of the innocent civilian population of the Gaza strip.

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Speaker 3: So it's quite possible we are targeting HAMAS facilities in

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Speaker 3: the south, but we're doing so in a way that

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Speaker 3: we are making every effort possible not to see any

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Speaker 3: collateral damage. In every war, unfortunately, in recent history civilians

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Speaker 3: have been caught up and there have been civilian casualties.

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Speaker 3: We know that, but as a democratic country that abides

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Speaker 3: by the rules of war, we are making a maximum

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Speaker 3: effort to target civilian to target the commas, terrorists and

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Speaker 3: and and safeguard civilians. And that's why we've asked people

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Speaker 3: to vacate the north, where we know there will be

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Speaker 3: very complex and vicious fighting.

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Speaker 4: We want them out of harm's way.

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Speaker 3: We don't want them caught up in the crossfire between

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Speaker 3: us and come us.

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Speaker 2: Okay and Joe, you've called for them to move to

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Speaker 2: the south. That's been controversial in itself, and we've seen

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Speaker 2: you and and other.

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Speaker 3: Aagets well from that COMMAS is active in the south,

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Speaker 3: we will strike comas.

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Speaker 2: What I should what I should say is many aid

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Speaker 2: groups have suggested that it was going to be very challenging,

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Speaker 2: and they've used more extreme words than that to move

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Speaker 2: people to the south. But having moved to the south,

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Speaker 2: many people in Guars might have thought that they would

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Speaker 2: be safe, but you're suggesting that they are not safe

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Speaker 2: from from becoming as you describe, collateral damage in the south.

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Speaker 3: So i'd stress we've asked them to leave the north

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Speaker 3: because that where we know there is vicious there is

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Speaker 3: terrible fighting ahead of us. We're going to send in

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Speaker 3: ground forces quite possibly, and they will face house to

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Speaker 3: house fighting. KAMAS is built in there in the north,

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Speaker 3: especially in Gaza City, where they have their military infrastructure

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Speaker 3: under civilian neighborhods, their tunnels, their bunkers, their command and control,

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Speaker 3: their arms depots, their rocket launchers, that's all there, and

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Speaker 3: we have to destroy that, and that's why we've asked

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Speaker 3: civilians to vacate in the south.

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Speaker 4: If there are specific Cramas.

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Speaker 3: Targets that need to be targeted, we will target them.

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Speaker 3: Hamas cannot have immunity anywhere, not in Gaza, not outside Gas.

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Speaker 3: But we are not targeting civilians in the south, and

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Speaker 3: it's most safer for them to be in the south

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Speaker 3: than in the north. Can I guarantee to you that

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Speaker 3: no civilian will be hurt in southern Gaza. I'd like

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Speaker 3: to be able to, but unfortunately the realities of modern

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Speaker 3: war make that impossible. But I can guarantee that we

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Speaker 3: will make a maximum effort to avoid that happening. At

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Speaker 3: the same time, Hamas has a deliberate policy of keeping

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Speaker 3: people in arms way when we ask people to evacuate

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Speaker 3: future So then.

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Speaker 1: Why not why not allow the Raa the Rafa crossing

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Speaker 1: to open into Egypt. There seems to be all sides,

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Speaker 1: but blaming each other for that board and not being

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Speaker 1: allowed to open, is there going to be any change?

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Speaker 1: Some some view that there would be a period of

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Speaker 1: time when the Rafa crossing would be open, and that's

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Speaker 1: happened in several days in a row. Is that going to.

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Speaker 4: Happen now, Well, it was supposed to happen yesterday.

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Speaker 3: We worked with the relevant international partners to make it

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Speaker 3: happen yesterday, and we expected yesterday already there was supposed

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Speaker 3: to be an exod of foreign nationals. Unfortunately Hamas prevented

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Speaker 3: that from happening. They closed their side of the crossing.

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Speaker 3: And this is another example of Hamas doesn't give a

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Speaker 3: hoot about innocent civil Your life not is really and

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Speaker 3: in this case not Palestinian.

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Speaker 2: Will it be attempted again today? Will you be attempting

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Speaker 2: to open the Raffa crossing again?

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Speaker 3: We are working with foreign governments to facilitate the exit

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Speaker 3: of civilians through the Rafa crossing. And your questions it

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Speaker 3: should have happened yesterday, must prevented it from happening. They

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Speaker 3: are holding Look, they're holding some two hundred Israelis hostage

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Speaker 3: inside Gaza. They are using Gaza's Palestinian civilians as a

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Speaker 3: human shield for their war machine. And now as of

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Speaker 3: yesterday they started using the foreign nationals also as hostages,

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Speaker 3: refusing to allow them to leave.

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Speaker 1: That's the truth, Ambassador Ambassadora. According to your public comments,

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Speaker 1: you've been present in meetings recently between Anthony Blincoln and

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Speaker 1: Netanya Who the Israeli Prime minister, what is and his

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Speaker 1: war cabinet thinking now about pursuing harmus. Does Israel need

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Speaker 1: President Biden's approval support? How would you characterize that?

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Speaker 3: First of all, worry thankful and appreciative of American support.

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Speaker 3: And American support has been in diplomacy, in their moral clarity,

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Speaker 3: in the way they've described Tramas as an Isis organization.

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Speaker 3: On the Sunday night, President Biden even made a comparison

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Speaker 3: with the Nazis, and he's correct because the attack by Tramash,

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Speaker 3: the massacre of October seventh, was the greatest single act

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Speaker 3: of anti Semitic violence since nineteen forty five, since the

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Speaker 3: terrible years.

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Speaker 4: Of the Holocaust.

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Speaker 3: And so we're thankful, We're thankful for that verbal support,

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Speaker 3: for that diplomatic support. But also they've given us material support.

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Speaker 3: They are helping replenish our stockpiles of weaponry, and they've

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Speaker 3: of course moved their two aircraft carrier groups to the

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Speaker 3: eastern Mediterranean. I think that's a deterrence to other dangerous

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Speaker 3: actors in the region not to think that this is

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Speaker 3: a time to attack Israel that I think they've been

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Speaker 3: playing a very positive role. And when the president here

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Speaker 3: is arriving tomorrow in Israel, we will welcome him as

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Speaker 3: a friend, as an ally, and we look forward to

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Speaker 3: rolling out the red garbet.

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Speaker 1: When you talk about foreign nationals and the UK, the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Vishasinak talked about ten missing UK nationals.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying that foreign nationals are being held hostage

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Speaker 1: in Gaza now? Also if they're not being allowed to

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Speaker 1: cross the Rapha crossing into Egypt? Is that what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: I'm saying that yesterday people were supposed to leave and

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Speaker 3: Hamas prevented them from doing so. Their exit was coordinated

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Speaker 3: with Israel, with the relevant foreign governments, and Hamas prevented

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Speaker 3: that from happening.

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Speaker 4: I can say that for a fact.

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Speaker 3: Is that how does one explain that? What words would

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Speaker 3: you use? I would say that.

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Speaker 4: Using foreign nationals as hostages as well?

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Speaker 1: What does a long and costly war mean to you?

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Speaker 1: Israel's defense sector, you of Galant saying and telling the

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Speaker 1: US Sector of State Blincoln that Israeli forces are preparing

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Speaker 1: for a long and costly war. How long? What does

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Speaker 1: that mean?

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Speaker 3: I think it's important to understand that this is not

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Speaker 3: another round of Israel Kamas fighting. You know, since Kamas

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Speaker 3: took over the Gaza Strip sixteen years ago, we've had

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Speaker 3: numerous rounds of fighting where they shot rockets into Israel

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Speaker 3: and we responded and so forth.

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Speaker 4: That's no longer the case. This is war.

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Speaker 3: What they did on October seventh, they're massacre of our people.

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Speaker 3: Oney three hundred Israeli deaths and about two hundred people.

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Speaker 4: Held hostage in Gaza.

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Speaker 3: This isis type behavior, these atrocities. The status quo that

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Speaker 3: was before October senth is unsustainable. Israelis will not stand

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Speaker 3: for it anymore. We are acting now to change the

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Speaker 3: political realities in the Gaza Strip, and when this is over,

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Speaker 3: there will be a different reality there.

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Speaker 4: We didn't want this war.

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Speaker 3: It was forced upon us, and though we didn't start it,

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Speaker 3: we will finish it. And when we finish it, we

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Speaker 3: will do so on our terms.

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Speaker 1: So what is the mood then, if you have been

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Speaker 1: in those meetings between Benjamin Netanyahu and Anthony Blinkett, and

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Speaker 1: you're expecting the US president now tomorrow, the German chance

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Speaker 1: also today, what is the mood in those meetings? Now?

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Speaker 1: Ten days after the her mass attack.

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Speaker 3: So there's first of all, we're receiving amazing solidarity from

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Speaker 3: friends and allies in North America and in Europe, and

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Speaker 3: Israel is appreciative of that support. And I think there's

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Speaker 3: a determination in Israel to win this. We have no choice.

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Speaker 3: We have to win and win decisively, and we will win,

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Speaker 3: and we might pay our price. As our Defense minister said,

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Speaker 3: this could take This could take time, and many young

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Speaker 3: Israeli soldiers who are going into battle might not come home.

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Speaker 3: I myself have a daughter who's a reserve officer and

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Speaker 3: she was called up and she's in the South, and

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Speaker 3: like hundreds and thousands of Israeli parents, I of course

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Speaker 3: I am concerned. But when speaking to my they are

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Speaker 3: determined to fight to protect their country from these brutal killers.

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Speaker 3: We all saw what they did in the massacre of

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Speaker 3: October seventh. We know what they're capable of. This is

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Speaker 3: a threat that no people on this planet should have

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Speaker 3: to live with, and we are eliminating the threat.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask you reference October seventh, and of course,

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Speaker 2: and that the loss of life and the tactics used

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Speaker 2: and the indiscriminate nature of the killing Kearley coming as

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Speaker 2: a huge shock to Israel and around the world. But

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Speaker 2: now we're in a situation where more Palestinians have died

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Speaker 2: since then in Gaza. I wonder what that means in Israel.

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Speaker 3: So, of course, we don't want to see civilian casualties,

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Speaker 3: and we're making an effort, as I said a moment ago,

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Speaker 3: to keep those as low as are.

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Speaker 2: Are you making enough effort though, because you say the

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Speaker 2: West supports you, and there's been plenty of calls for support,

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Speaker 2: but also calls for restraint.

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Speaker 3: So we will act within the rules of war or

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Speaker 3: the recognized international rules of war. I'd remind you if

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Speaker 3: I can use a historic example, when Molossovich was committing

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Speaker 3: war crimes against the people of Kosovo, there was a

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Speaker 3: bombing campaign by NATO against Belgrade. It was a just campaign.

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Speaker 3: It was a struggle to save lives. Innocent Serbs were killed.

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Speaker 3: Now that's a sad fact of war. We don't want

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Speaker 3: to see it. We will act to minimize it. But

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Speaker 3: if you say to me, and I'm not saying you're

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Speaker 3: saying it, but maybe other people are. If you say

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Speaker 3: to me that, because there will be civilian casualties Israel

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Speaker 3: is not entitled to defend itself, to protect itself from

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Speaker 3: this horrific terrorist group who ISIS type behavior was on

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Speaker 3: display for everyone to see.

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Speaker 4: That's not serious.

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Speaker 3: Israel has the right to defend ourselves and we will

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Speaker 3: do so within the framework of international law and the

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Speaker 3: international rules of ARMKORNG.

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Speaker 1: Yes, international law and the rules of international armed conflict.

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Speaker 1: But you say that you will end this on your terms.

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Speaker 1: What are your terms? What does victory look like? What

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Speaker 1: does Gaza? What does Israel look like? If you want

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Speaker 1: to end this conflict on your own terms.

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Speaker 3: As you say so, we will destroy Hamasa's military capabilities,

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Speaker 3: and we will dismantle its political structure inside the Gaza strip.

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Speaker 1: And what is left of any cities and towns in

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Speaker 1: Gaza at the end of.

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Speaker 3: That well, obviously the Kamas targets will be destroyed, but

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Speaker 3: we are not targeting Gaza's civilian population. I repeat, But

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Speaker 3: if I can use a comparison, I mean the American

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Speaker 3: president and European leaders have made a comparison with ISIS. Yes,

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Speaker 3: when the West, when the coalition, the International Coalition defeated ISIS,

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Speaker 3: ISIS had a few cities.

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Speaker 4: There was destruction there too.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes when you are fighting a brutal enemy, that enemy

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Speaker 3: implants itself in a civilian population. We don't want to

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Speaker 3: hurt civilians, but in many ways that is inevitable. We

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Speaker 3: will make a maximum effort to keep that number to

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Speaker 3: a minimum. But once again, we can't allow Hamas to

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Speaker 3: have immunity. We can't allow them to successfully use Gaza

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Speaker 3: civilian population as a human shield for their terror machine.

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Speaker 2: Anthony Blincn has said that Israel has agreed a plan

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Speaker 2: with the US to enable humanitarian aid to reach civilians

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Speaker 2: in Gaza. I wonder if you have any more details

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Speaker 2: of how that can be done, what that means for water,

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Speaker 2: for medical supplies, and the rest.

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Speaker 3: We're working very closely with the Americans on that. We

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Speaker 3: had extensive meetings yesterday with the Secretary.

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Speaker 2: How soon can we expect those supplies to be allowed

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Speaker 2: in because we've seen the pictures of the trucks waiting.

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Speaker 3: From my point of view that we want humanitarian relief

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Speaker 3: for the people of Gaza, but there are questions that

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Speaker 3: need to be answered. Anthony Blincoln said specifically that we

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Speaker 3: have to be able to quoting by memory, but he

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Speaker 3: talked about to make sure that these supplies reach the

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Speaker 3: civilian population of Gaza. And why does that need to

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Speaker 3: be said, Because Caamas are the only people on the

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Speaker 3: ground inside the Gaza strip with weapons and they have

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Speaker 3: the ability to hijack supplies. They have the ability to

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Speaker 3: take it away from the civilian population.

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Speaker 4: They have done so in the past.

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Speaker 2: So does that mean you can't send in any so

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Speaker 2: you won't send it with Is it possible to send

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Speaker 2: in aid then before you are on the ground, before

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Speaker 2: Israel is on the ground.

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Speaker 3: We believe it's possible, but we have to find safeguards

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Speaker 3: in the mechanisms we use. We don't want fuel for

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Speaker 3: Ramas rockets, we want fuel for generators in hospitals. And

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Speaker 3: I think that's something that all the donors in the

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Speaker 3: international community who want to send aid, they have to

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Speaker 3: be assured that the aid is reaching the people of

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Speaker 3: Gaza and not Ramas's terrorist machine.

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Speaker 1: Can an escalation be prevented with Hesperala and Lebanon Leatnia,

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Speaker 1: who has warned not to test Israel in the North,

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Speaker 1: that testing does seem to be taking place.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and it's a worrying situation. We have no interest

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Speaker 3: in an escalation in the North. We have no interest

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Speaker 3: in a two front war. But Chrisbela is Kamas's twin.

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Speaker 3: They are both terrorist groups. The Arab League calls Kisbela

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Speaker 3: a terrorist group, and they because they're in the Iranian orbit,

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Speaker 3: they could world see this as a moment of opportunity

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Speaker 3: to attack Israel, and it's dangerous. But I will say

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Speaker 3: the following one. Chrisbela won't take us by surprise like

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Speaker 3: Hamas did. We are on guard, we are looking, and

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Speaker 3: we are ready. If they force a war upon us,

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Speaker 3: we will respond forcibly and decisively. And unfortunately, unfortunately for Lebanon,

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Speaker 3: because chrisbel obviously controls the ground, the Lebanese government is

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Speaker 3: largely irrelevant.

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Speaker 4: They have no power to restrain Krisbela.

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Speaker 3: But I have to be clear such a conflict, we

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Speaker 3: will hit isbel A hard, and Lebanon, unfortunately, in the process,

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Speaker 3: will also base a terrible price.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask you about the wider geopolitics at play here?

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Speaker 2: Before that the dreadful events of October seventh that were

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Speaker 2: talks between Israel and the Saudis about coming to a

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Speaker 2: new understanding, new relationships. Has all of that process come

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Speaker 2: to an end? There is there room for any of

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Speaker 2: those talks to continue.

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Speaker 4: I think yes.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, while the fighting's going on, that is a touch

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Speaker 3: more difficult. But if we succeed, and I believe we will,

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Speaker 3: in decisively defeating Ramas, that's a blow against the enemies

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Speaker 3: of peace.

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Speaker 4: That's a blow.

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Speaker 3: Against the extremists, that's a blow against the Iranian coalition.

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Speaker 3: That's a blow against terrorism, and that I think can

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Speaker 3: create space for more moderate voices.

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Speaker 4: And we're speaking to Arab governments.

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Speaker 3: They have no a love for Hamas, they have no

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Speaker 3: affection for Kamas. They know exactly who Hamas is, and

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Speaker 3: I think they would like to see a different reality

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Speaker 3: in Gaza too. They are, of course concerned like many others,

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Speaker 3: about Parestinian civilian life.

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Speaker 4: We are doing much more and.

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Speaker 3: It's actually I think it's interesting because Israel is perceived

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Speaker 3: as being the enemy of the Palestinians and Hamas is

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Speaker 3: the defender, yes, of the Palestinians, but it's rubbish. We

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Speaker 3: are doing more to safeguard Palestinian life in this conflict

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Speaker 3: than Hamass, which is using the civilians as a human shield,

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Speaker 3: and which is actually preventing them from evacuating areas where

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Speaker 3: we know there's going to be terrible combat. They you know,

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Speaker 3: in Israel and in democratic countries are armed services. Our

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Speaker 3: armed forces are used to protect the civilians in Gaza

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Speaker 3: Hamas flips it. They use the civilians to protect the military.

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Speaker 1: Mark Gregev, thank you so much for your time this

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Speaker 1: morning on Boomberg Radio. Senior advisor to the Israeli Prime

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Speaker 1: Minist of Benjamin Nettnia, who also formerly Israeli Ambassador to

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Speaker 1: the United Kingdom,