1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and the Supreme Court has allowed House 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: Democrats to access Trump's tax records. We have such an 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: interesting show today. Congressman Roe Connor stop spy to talk 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: to us about a host of issue. Then we talked 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: to Guardian reporter Hugo Lowell about Trump's many many, many, 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: many many legal cases. But first we have the co 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: host of Next Level and the author of Why We 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: Did It, The Bulwarks, Tim Miller. Welcome back to Fast Politics. 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: Tim Miller. Hell, yeah, my home away from home. That's right. 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: We like to be your your home away from home. First, 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: I think we should talk about your profile in the the 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: New York Times. Yes, that's what I want to talk 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: about because I love to talk about myself and I yeah, 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: I just adore it. No, So I want to talk 17 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: about the Colorado Springs new massacre shooting. Talk to me 18 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: about your writing about it, tell me what and and 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: the gun laws. Let's talk. Yeah, I mean, so there 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: are two elements to this, right and as a as 21 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: a gay Colorado this one obviously hit close to home. 22 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: You know from an emotional standpoint, just I don't know 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: Colorda Springs. I don't know how many time uch time 24 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: have you spent in conservative town gay bars Molly. I 25 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: don't out myself here, but not a lot. But I 26 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: have spent some time in Colorado Springs. Okay, Yeah, the 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: gay bars in toadtown, like Colorda Springs, they're kind of 28 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: special in a way, and in some ways they're a 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: little they're kind of dingy, you know, and they aren't 30 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: as they aren't like the gay bars you see on 31 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: TV where you know, the shirtless guys are dancing and 32 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: doing Molly right. It's more like, you know, it's really 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: like a gathering place for people. And I love going 34 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: to small town gave bars. I've never been the club Q. 35 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: I almost want one time, but we got way light 36 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: went somewhere else. There's a lot of reporting that says 37 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: that they're sort of the safe havens in these kids 38 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: out of towns, and this place is like outside of town. 39 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: I know Calda Springs a bit. It's like not in downtown, 40 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: it's like in this strip mall. So it's like a 41 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: lot of other gay bars in Red State, Cardaes and 42 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: red state. Carda Springs is red town that I've been 43 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: to for that reason. You know, it's just like fuck, 44 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, this is where these poor people 45 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: are getting discriminated against enough and having to hear hate 46 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: speech enough in Colorda Springs, and like this is a 47 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: place for them to go if you can't be safe there. 48 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: It's just it's gutting, you know. So there's that kind 49 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: of emotional gutting element to it. And the article for 50 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: the Bulwark that I wrote, I wanted to just try 51 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: to separate that out as much as possible and just 52 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: focus on the law breakdown here because it's easy to 53 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: talk about that, and you can't you don't really know, 54 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: like does somebody's hate speech lead to this or you know, 55 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: it's hard to get inside's brains. But one thing we 56 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: do know is that like Colorado, who has a great governor, 57 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: Jared Poulis, signed a red flag law, and that law 58 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: was meant to take firearms away from people that are 59 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: dangerous to themselves or others. And and this guy, the 60 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: shooter we know last year, his mother called the police 61 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: because he had threatened to bomb her home and he 62 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: barricaded herself in her home, and we have video of 63 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: him wearing tactical gear threatening the police who would come 64 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: to this house before they arrested him. So if there 65 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: was ever a use for a red flag law, it 66 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: would be this guy whose mother was scared of him, 67 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: who was threatening police, calling them motherfucker's, threatening to bomb them. 68 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: And yet the reason why they didn't even petition for 69 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: to to to review whether this guy should have his 70 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: guns taken away from him, it was because the fucking 71 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: sheriff and County Commission in Colorada Springs made El Paso 72 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: County a sanctuary city to troll the Libs for Second Amendment. 73 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: A second Amendment sanctuary city Colorda Springs is in El 74 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: Paso County, right, so el Paso County, Colorado. The County 75 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: Commission said they would not fund these reviews red flag 76 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: laws reviews. The sheriff said he wouldn't file for petition 77 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: the court for them. So like they have a law 78 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: in Colorado that is over wellebingly post popular passed by 79 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: the popular governor, that was supposed to prevent this exact 80 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: fucking thing. Like it's the whole point of this law 81 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: is to preventer this exact thing, not to take guns 82 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: away from people who like to hunt or whatever, but 83 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: to take guns away from lunatics like this, he threatened 84 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: to bomb police, and yet they didn't do anything because 85 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: there's such fucking zealots and like this isn't even about 86 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: like and their Republicans obviously, but it's not even know 87 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: about that, Like most Republicans are for this, you know. 88 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: It's like extreme far right zelotry that let this happen. 89 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: And it's bullshit. And I just despite all my feelings 90 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: about the gay side of this, like I don't want 91 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: that to get lost, Like there's a way to stop this, 92 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: and we got to throw out these fucking politicians that 93 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: are letting this happen anyway, that's my rants about that, 94 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: And no, I think that's a good point. And I 95 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: also think it's owning the Libs and opening the door 96 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: for violent crime, right, and that's all that's all. Like 97 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: the idea can it a sanctuary city? Right, it's like 98 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: to make fun, you know, because the right demanded that 99 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: the Libs have sanctuary cities for immigrants and so like 100 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a sanctuary city for a R fifteens. 101 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: It's stupid, you know, even if we got somebody like 102 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: David French or some really you know conservative person on 103 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: here whose good faith and just wants to protect people's rights. Yeah, 104 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: David from right, who's very upset about the guns gone. Yeah, 105 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: any of these people like, but even from isn't. But 106 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: even someone who like likes gun laws, right, this isn't 107 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: like bad. I was saying, I'm gonna take your A 108 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: R fifteen's right, which there's an argument for that. This 109 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: is like a very modest law. That's just like if 110 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: someone is a lunatic threatening to kill his mother and police, 111 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: we should make sure he can't have an A R 112 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: fifteen for a little while. We should like put him 113 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: in time out and have a judge review it. Who's 114 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: against that? That's what I'm saying. This is an a 115 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: D plus ninety plus percent issue. But these fucking assholes 116 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: in Colorado Springs refused to enforce the law, and that 117 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: is why these people are dead. They are responsible. That 118 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: decision is responsible. And there's all the other stuff. There's 119 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: the anti gay stuff they drag queen the groomer stuff. 120 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: There's plenty of other stuff that plays apart here. But like, 121 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: the people would not enforce this totally reasonable, law responsible, 122 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: and they should be throwing the funk out. I agree, 123 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: and I mean there's no reason why any of these 124 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: cities should be a sanctuary for guns. The whole fucking 125 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: country is a sanctuary for guns. I just want to 126 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: talk about one last thing, which is it does seem 127 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: to me that the Republican Party is targeting the LGBTQ 128 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: community in a lot of ways. I mean, does that 129 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: As someone who was a Republican and this guy you're 130 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: about to say it was gay, I was like, what happened? 131 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: Because there were times when this Republican Party pretended to 132 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: be pro lgbt But I feel like they've sort of 133 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: they've sort of tacked almost Yeah, I mean, the black 134 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: lives sucks, and it's real. I've regrets for my past 135 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: time in the in the party over this point. But 136 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: my self defense, which is not a justification but is 137 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: just the reality of how how we're thinking about things, 138 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: was that the gays, we were on the march right, 139 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: and like the arc of history was bending towards rainbow 140 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: justice right, and it was like there was some asshole 141 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: politicians still, but like unbalanced, things were moving the right direction. 142 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: And we've had this real backlash to that over the 143 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: past few years, and that is undeniable. And it's they 144 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: don't say gay stuff in Florida that in other the states, 145 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: it's targeting drag queens, is tarting the trans community in particular. 146 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: Good news is in swing areas in particular, this stuff 147 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: was just rejected. I mean, Tudor Dixon in Michigan right 148 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: ran on this and just got absolutely schlund by Gretchen 149 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: Whitmer and that election in the midterm, So that's nice, right, 150 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: And Wisconsin people don't like this, but you know they're 151 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: still placed like Colina Springs, this is happening. There's still 152 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: red states that's happening, and it is, and there's still 153 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: the internet on the internet like these big conservative pizza 154 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: gate Jack, he sends his tweet that's like, we're just 155 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: going to ignore the fact that like this guy, this 156 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: supposed hero who who God loved, this guy who's who 157 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: was a real hero, Richard Fierre, and he's had a 158 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: drag queen se a drag show is a straight guy. 159 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: What's up. It's just like, first off, fuck you, but 160 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: second off, this is not just the fringe I went 161 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: when I was in Arizona for the Circus Pizza Gate. 162 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: Jack was opened the opening act for Blake Masters and 163 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: carry Lake. So you know, I mean, both those guys lost. 164 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: But this stuff is being mainstreamed by these politicians and 165 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: that is different like that was there was a little 166 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: while where that wasn't happening, and and and so that 167 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: that's that's a real thing, and it sucks. So I 168 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: want to talk to you about the mid terms because 169 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, it does suck, and like it is horrible, 170 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: and I know how upsetting it is to me, and 171 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: I can only imagine how upsetting it is to you. 172 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: So but I want to talk to you about the 173 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: mid terms because voters really rejected all of this as 174 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: certainly swing state voters and voters and being luck in Mississippi, 175 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: you can elect a jar of peanut butter if it 176 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: hasn't our next to a team. But in places where 177 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: there's any kind of movement, people really rejected Trump as um. 178 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: But it doesn't seem like Republicans care well. I think 179 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: that there are some Republicans in d C that are 180 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: that are trying, that recognize that this has been a 181 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: loser for them and that they cost themselves with the 182 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: extreme positions, particularly democracy and abortion, but it's sort of 183 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: all wrapped up in you know, the transports and the 184 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: kitty letter, right, It's just like their vibes were extreme, right, 185 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: like a democracy an abortion were the two biggest ones. 186 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: But just as a general matter, a lot of normal 187 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: voters just looked at these candidates and we're like, you 188 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: guys are sucking lunatics, Like I'm just not gonna do it. 189 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,599 Speaker 1: I'm not voting for you. And the Arizona thing is 190 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: so prime, right. They have this treasurer candidate running on 191 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: the same ballot as Carry Lake and like masters, and 192 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: nobody even knows who the treasure Candida and it literally 193 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: might as well as been a can of peanut butter, 194 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: like running for treasure in Arizona. The cann of peanut 195 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: butter one by ten points. Carry Lake and clusters lost, 196 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: I mean right, So it's like that makes you think 197 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: that if Carry Lake just had said nothing the whole campaign, 198 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: you might have won because people were sick of the 199 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: inflation blah blah blah. So that shows and there and 200 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: there are some Republicans in DC strategist types who see 201 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: this and recognize it and want to change, but they 202 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: don't control the base. They're not willing to do enough, right, Like, 203 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: it's kind of like, oh, we just hope Donald Trump 204 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: disappears and that solves all of our problems. And it's 205 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: like that's not it, right, Like they're not they're not 206 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: actually doing anything to to address the underlying issue, which 207 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: is that the voters want this sort of crazy, that 208 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: they need to speak out against this sort of crazy. 209 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: I mean, just look at the Colorado thing. I mean, 210 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: you're getting the normal thoughts and prayers, but nobody's out there. 211 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: There's not a single Republican leader that I've seen out 212 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: there saying we need to repudiate this anti gay rhetoric. 213 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: You know, we need to focus on reasonable gun laws. 214 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: They don't want to alienate the base their hostages at 215 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: this point. But that was not like that. It's not 216 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: that long ago, right, where like they were both parts 217 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: of the party. Right, Like, you had people that were 218 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: still were anti gay and like wanted extreme gun laws. 219 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: But at least you have a couple of politicians would 220 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: be out there saying, you know, maybe this is the 221 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: moment to like really do these background checks stricter, you know, 222 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: be a big leaf. It wouldn't be what what everybody 223 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: would want, it wouldn't be the perfect thing, but they 224 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: would at least be in reality saying we have we 225 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: have to push back against the stuff that does not happening. 226 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: Right now, there's not a lot of signs that they're 227 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: going to change. I think they're hoping that the big 228 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: change is like Donald Trump magically disappears. I mean, that's 229 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: the thing that is really interesting. I mean, I don't 230 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: know how interesting this is, but it's certainly. The thing 231 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: that gets me is most of the intellectuals on the right, 232 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: even the Trump intellectuals. I know that's an oxymoron, but 233 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, even the more intellectual and 234 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: Trump were all the sort of pro Trump but smart. 235 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: That's like five people. But those even those people want 236 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: Trump out right because they know you can't win elections 237 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: with this guy. The mainstream hates him. It does seem 238 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: to me like they are on a collision course to 239 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: having him again as the nominee. It's super possible. I 240 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: think that he's about as weak within the party as 241 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: he's been in about a half deck aid. But that's 242 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: still pretty strong, right, I mean, like, you know, he 243 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: only won of the party to win the primary and 244 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: sixteen we'll see how many people run, but that's probably 245 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: his goal number this time. It's not like he has 246 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: below at approval among Republicans. It's been a small dip, 247 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: and there's been a dip among the elite Republicans who 248 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: want to who want to wash their hands with them, 249 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 1: but they're not really doing anything to try to stop it. Right. 250 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: And the other thing is all of these other candidates 251 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: right or quote unquote candidates because they have an announced yet, 252 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: but Mike Pompeio, you know, they're all just weaker versions 253 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump, right, I mean Mike pens and and 254 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: all those people think that they are candidates who should 255 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: be elected. We could really see exactly what happened in 256 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen again right wherever they split the 257 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: vote and Trump has the most loyal group, and so 258 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: we wins. That could happen. Here's my thing. Let's just 259 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: use the other side of the coin, though, to show 260 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: you how untractable that the issue is. Listen, I'm I'd 261 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: be happy to be wrong on this because he is 262 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: such a danger. Yeah yeah, no, same, I'm just I'm saying, 263 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: we just don't know that could happen for sure, Here's 264 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: nothing that could happen. Rhonda Santis? Could he can out? 265 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: I I do think that there's enough people. I think 266 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: Trump is about a third of the party, but could 267 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: drawn to Santa's unite the other two thirds if they 268 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: clear the field for him. Maybe Okay, but then what happens, 269 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: right Rhonda Santis isn't running in this primary? Is like 270 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: an anti Trumper wants to move away from all the 271 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: all the toxic Trump ship, like he ran an out 272 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: about reading Art of the Deal to his kid and 273 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: building a lego wall. Okay, Like did this electorate in 274 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and Michigan make seem like they want like a 275 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: mini Trump? Not really? Now? Yeah? I mean he's Trump 276 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: without the charisma and without the humor and all and 277 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: with also without just like certain elements of the psychopathy. Right, 278 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: So like that's how people are counting on. Can we 279 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: have a Trump that's just not psychotic? Right? But he 280 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: is still really I mean like that don't say gay stuff. 281 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: That was a complete base play to try to get 282 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: the base excited about discriminate ending against gay people. Yeah, 283 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: this is the point. He's extreme but not psychotic. Okay, 284 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: So that's something. It's you know, that will that be 285 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: enough to win a few people over, Sure, But the 286 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: Republicans also tried that this time, you know, in a 287 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: couple of places, right, and we just we we just 288 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: went over that the Michigan, Wisconsin, you know that they 289 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: were running on Trump platforms, Pennsylvania, but without his you 290 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: know whatever weird twitter feed. And I think that's true 291 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: about the Santas. There's something to be said for the 292 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: fact that, right, you know, you don't you're not really 293 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: worried that the Santis will just like get mad at 294 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: somebody and press the nuke button, right, or like get 295 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: people to charge the capital on behalf of him like that. 296 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: That seems pretty unlikely that there'll be people you know, 297 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: waving around to Santis flags, charging the capital, poop the walls. Right, Okay, 298 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: but on the issues I he's down the line extreme 299 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: with them, and there's a decent chance he runs a primary, 300 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: tries to get to his right and tries to attack 301 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: Trump for like not being not building the wall fast 302 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: enough for whatever. Jesus. Yeah, that's not good either. Well, 303 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: thank you for that nightmare of fuel. Sure, you recently 304 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: interviewed a man who is quite famous and influential. He 305 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: have many shirt Steve Bannon. I am curious, first of all, 306 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: how did this come about? And then I have many 307 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: other questions. I know Steve a little bit for people 308 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: that read Why We Did It book plug, I used 309 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: to pitch him and um, Steve, Okay, So there are 310 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: two types of mega grifters, all right. There is the 311 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: Dan Bongino type, who's done as a box of rocks 312 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: and like maybe believes most of the ship, right, and 313 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: any of the Bannon type, which is he's fighting a 314 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: holy war. Dan Bongino, Yeah, he's smart, right, Bannon knows 315 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: what he's doing. You know, he's clever and so like 316 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: Bannon kind of likes to spar with people like me, right, 317 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: and and because he enjoys that, right, It's not he's 318 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: not He's not like idiot like some of these other guys. Okay, 319 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: So I don't mean to compliment Bannon, but that's just 320 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: to help people understand. I'm not sure that not an 321 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: abject moron is a compliment. Is that great of a complict? Right? 322 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: So for that reason, like we have each other's text, 323 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: and I heard that he was at the Carry Lake 324 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: event that I was covering for the circus, and so 325 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: I texted him and I went backstage and we talked 326 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: for a couple of minutes and he's just being a fucking, 327 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: you know, blow hard, buttering me up and just doing 328 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: the whole bullshit. And I said, okay, well, let's just 329 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: do this on camera then, Steve, if you want to 330 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: do this, and he got the late campaign's permission. We 331 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: brought the cameras back and I just knew in this 332 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: in the interview, my whole goal of the interview was 333 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: the one advantage I have over other people is that 334 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: I know this guy. He does not He cannot bring 335 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: himself to just with keep a straight face and tell 336 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: me that the that the Chinese bamboo got into the ballots, right, Like, 337 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: he doesn't want me to think he's stupid. He doesn't 338 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: want me to think he's as stupid as the pillow guy. Right. 339 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: What what opened the door for me? This was it 340 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: on camera? But I said to him, I was like, dude, 341 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: I watch you on your podcast with my pillow guy 342 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: and like, I know you don't You're not stupid enough 343 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: to believe his ship. And he just starts laughing and 344 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I've got him down right, And 345 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: so I just I brought the camera back and I 346 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: was like, I'm just gonna take this to him and 347 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: say and over and over, just prove that he is 348 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: just completely full of shit and that he has responsibility 349 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: for this insurrection because he continued to perpetrate these lines 350 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: despite knowing that their lies. And so I felt like 351 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: there isn't any point and like arguing with him on 352 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: the chain of custody of the ballots and dominion and 353 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, like why why do that? Like why 354 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: let him have that? Like why let him even try 355 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: to get that message out there? And my whole point 356 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: was just to be like, no, this is bullshit. You 357 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: know it's bullshit. I know you know it's bullshit, and 358 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: I'm gonna show everybody that. And I think that the 359 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: clip achieved that, I mean, Badden is like really influential 360 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: in MAGA world. I think maybe waning, we'll see after 361 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: this election. But look, I mean the other thing that 362 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to get across the interview is why was 363 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: he there and carry Lake. This is a swing state, 364 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: it's a two days before the election. She's inviting this 365 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: lunatic stop the steel. You know, a guy podcast host 366 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: to come on stage. It just shows how to touch 367 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: They were as a campaign of reaching the middle, reaching 368 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: voters that we're gettable. But he look, he has his 369 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: numbers are good. If you look at the podcast numbers, 370 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: you look at his livestream numbers, he has very big. 371 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: He gets very big ratings. When he brought was brought 372 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: out on stage at that carry Lake event, big cheers. 373 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: These like the rank and file mega voters know who 374 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: he is, and he, you know, uses his platform well 375 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: right like he's not afraid to you know, use it 376 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: to influence people and to put up you know, maga 377 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: candidates that will you know, suck on his toes, and 378 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: to trash people that you know aren't good to him, etcetera. 379 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: So so he wields his power the extent that he 380 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: has powering doesn't have real power. The Republicans don't run anything. 381 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: His internal intra party power, he wields it. That's so interesting. 382 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Please come back so 383 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: we can talk more about all of this anytime. I 384 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: love fast politics. People checks out the ballard. Can everybody 385 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: have a great Thanksgiving? It was a good It's been 386 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: a good month for democracy. Can I just close on that. 387 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: It's been a guy. Am thankful for that. It's been 388 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: a really good month for democracy. Funk. All these losers 389 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: and Steve Bannon, they were a total offer, and so 390 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: we should. You know, we can enjoy that for a 391 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: month before the work starts again. Jesus Crest, it's true. 392 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: Congressman Rocana represents California's seventeenth district. Welcome to you, Fast Politics. 393 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: Representative Rocanna, thank you for having me on. We're glad 394 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: to have you. Maybe you've never been on this one, 395 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: but I've certainly interviewed you many times before and it's 396 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: always a delight. So we're in this lame duck. Now, 397 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: what do you want to see happen? I want to 398 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: make sure that the death ceiling is raised. If we 399 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 1: don't do that, then the Republicans can really hold the 400 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: entire US economy hostage. I want to make sure we 401 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: increase funding for the National Labor Relations That is so important. 402 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: People who have been seeing the movement explain to our 403 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: listeners what the National Labor Relations Board is. So basically, 404 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: it's the organization the federal agency that upholds labor laws 405 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: and that protects workers rights. To organize. I've been out 406 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: there with Starbucks workers. We just wrote a letter with 407 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: thirty other members to Howard Schultz saying, let the Starbucks 408 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: workers organized. You know, you can't have Starbucks cutting people's 409 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: shifts or denying them vacation if they're organizing. And we've 410 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: been doing that with Maximum workers. Other members have been 411 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: doing it for Amazon workers. None of that can happen 412 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: if there's not a National Labor Relations Board to protect 413 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 1: workers against corporate abuses corporate retaliation for organizing, and right 414 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: now the agency has been basically unfunded and so there's 415 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: no enforcement, So that really needs funding. It's one of 416 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: the issues that doesn't get much attention, but is, in 417 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: my view, very important. It does seemed to me like 418 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: one of the things that the Biden administration has done 419 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: really well and is really the future of the Democratic Party. 420 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: Is this labor organizing and Democrats finally really embracing workers 421 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: in the way that they did when my grandfather was 422 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: involved in politics. You know that, because that is I mean, ultimately, 423 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: isn't that what Democrats are for? I agree with you. 424 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: I think President Biden has spoken up for unions and 425 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: for workers more than any recent president but more than 426 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: speaking up, he understands that globalization, that the offshoring of production, 427 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: that automation, has posed a lot of challenges for the 428 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: working class in this country. And I think he's oriented 429 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: the economic policy and his presidency to addressing that and 430 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 1: to helping strengthen the working in middle class. So do 431 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: you think you guys can get those things passed during 432 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: the lame duck. The one other thing I'd add is 433 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: eight to Ukraine. That's going to be critical because who 434 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: knows what mccartthay or whoever else leading the Republicans would 435 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,239 Speaker 1: do with that. Uh. And so those three things, in 436 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: my view, are achievable, and I'm hopeful that we'll get 437 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: it done in early December. So I want to get 438 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: back to this idea, you know, I had. I think 439 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: this is sort of interesting. I had a pre right 440 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: that I wrote for Vanny Fair about Republicans taking the 441 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: House because everyone had said Republicans are going to take 442 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: the House. And then as Republicans failed limped along desperately 443 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: trying to take the House, I started think, well, maybe 444 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: they won't be as bad as this piece predicts because 445 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: they don't really have a mandate, right they didn't win 446 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: sixty seats, they didn't win fifty seats, they didn't even 447 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: win te you know. I mean, so, I mean, they 448 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: have this very historically thin majority, but they do seem 449 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: to be just as crazy as I predicted. Well, you've 450 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: been right in your prediction. I mean, here's the thing 451 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: I hate being right about this. They haven't even spent 452 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: two days trying to understand what their quote unquote mandate 453 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: would be. They certainly didn't run on investigating Hunter Biden. 454 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't see you know, doctor oz or 455 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: any of these Republican candidates running and saying, oh, like 456 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: to me so that I can go investigate Hunter Biden. 457 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: I didn't see j. D. Banns doing that. And yet 458 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: the first thing that they do is not have a 459 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: plan on inflation, not have a plan on the economy. 460 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: It's investigations. So to the extent that they had any 461 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: quote unquote win in the House, which was a much 462 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: lower victory than anyone anticipated, they're not even dealing with 463 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: what they promised the voters they would deal with. So 464 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: here we are. But they don't have a mandate. They 465 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: have a variein majority. All McCarthy want is to hold 466 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: that gavel, so he will make deals with pretty much anyone. 467 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: It seems like a hostage scenario almost. Yeah, But Kevin 468 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: McCarthy is a situation reminds me of the famous quote 469 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: by Benjamin Disraeli that becoming prime minister was like climbing 470 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: up a greasy pole and he finally got there, and 471 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: now he can barely hold on. And I was joking 472 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: with someone of the question is the Republican speakers last 473 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: longer British prime ministers these days? But I think McCarthy 474 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: is in a very difficult situation because he's gonna have 475 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: a very slow majority and he's has got people who 476 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: have their own agenda. We're gonna have a veto power 477 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: off on it. I think one of the underestimated aspects 478 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: of the Democratic Caucus is that Progressives in almost every 479 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: instance ended up supporting the President and the Speaker's agenda. Now, 480 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: maybe it took a month longer at times than it 481 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: would have if everyone was exactly aligned, but there is 482 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: not a single case of Progressives sinking any important initiative 483 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: by the President or the Speaker. We were remarkably united 484 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: as a party and that's just not going to be 485 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: the case on the Republican side. I mean, Republicans don't 486 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: have a progressive wing, they just have a what a 487 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: Trump wing and not as trump wing right. But I 488 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: want to get back to this idea of progressives because 489 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: I did read a really interesting quote from AOC where 490 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: she talked about how the combination of Ron Clay, who 491 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: originally a lot of people on the progressive side had 492 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: anxiety about, and Nancy Pelusi, who originally a lot on 493 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: the progressive side had anxiety about. Really the two of 494 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: them were able to kind of shepherd a lot of 495 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: legislation through they were I mean, look, Ron Clain has 496 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: been incredible to work with, and it's not true that 497 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: he's just bides towards the progressives. He has done outrage 498 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: to the Hill on behalf from the president. I mean, 499 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: Ron plains a great secret is that he gets to 500 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: remember to think he's on their side while he's actually 501 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: on the president side. But he's been very effective and 502 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: people feel hurt, they feel listened to, they feel like 503 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: they've had employers. And the speaker is has also ultimately 504 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: pushed for progressive ideals, but she's conveyed that we have 505 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: to get things done and look, the Progressives come from 506 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: a governing vision of the party. The question is just 507 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: that the Progressives want to go a little sort of 508 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: the but they want to get something done. So you're 509 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: not going to have a situation where Progressives are going 510 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: to say, well, we're going to vote against three hundred 511 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: billion dollars in climate because really we need one trillion 512 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: dollars in climate. Could be true that we need one 513 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: trillion dollars in climate. That's not going to cause Progressives 514 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,719 Speaker 1: to sink the good. Right, There's been a fair amount 515 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: of really good deal making, right, I mean, that's what 516 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: the job is. Absolutely, it's been dealmaking. It's been getting 517 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: the consensus priorities. And then you look at what we've 518 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: been che I mean, we have the largest investment in 519 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: climate with three hundred billion dollars, a massive down payment 520 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: on renewables and energy efficiency, bringing semiconductor chips back, and 521 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: that was the bill that I helped co author with 522 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: Senator Schumer, and the largest investment in science, the chips 523 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: in science sex since the Kennedy years, massive investments in infrastructure, 524 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: and then of course the American Rescue Plan, which in 525 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: and of itself would have been a monumental achievement in 526 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: getting uh hunt six hundred bucks to every working family, 527 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: and helping get the stimulus stretch out during the pandemic, 528 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: and funding schools in ways that they're still benefiting from. 529 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: So it's a remarkable record of achievement for this president. 530 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: I'm very proud of having been part of this Congress. 531 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: I genuinely believe it's a congress that people will look 532 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: back in history as being a productive one. You know, 533 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: I think it's shown that the Democratic Party is capable 534 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: of governing. I want to talk to you about what 535 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: is happening now because already Republicans have said they are 536 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: planning on taking three members of Congress off their committees. 537 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: I mean as a reciprocity for taking Marjorie Taylor space 538 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: Lasers Green Offer committee. Can you explain to me how 539 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: that helps fight inflation? Well, it doesn't. But it's just 540 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: catering to their base and McCarthy looking for how he 541 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: can get votes to get to hundred eighteen votes. And 542 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: that's what's what's going on. It has nothing to do 543 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: with the economy, nothing to do with inflation. You can't 544 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: kick people off because you disagree with them, and that's 545 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: what they're they're doing. It's one thing if someone is 546 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: engaged in conspiracy theories and speech that is inciting violence 547 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: or racial hatred. But if you just disagree with someone, 548 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: that would be like saying, well, should we kick someone 549 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: off the committee because they were defending Donald Trump. I 550 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: don't think, for example, Kevin Comer or Jim Jordan's, who 551 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: I sudhelently disagree with, to be kicked off their committees 552 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: because they want to invest the game Hunter Biden. I 553 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: think it's a total waste of time of the taxpayer. 554 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: But that's the democratic argument. You just don't kick people 555 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: off because you disagree with what they want to do. Yeah, 556 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: what happens now with Kevin McCarthy. Do you think he 557 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: ends up getting to be speaker? And do you think 558 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: he can keep this group? I mean, what we realize 559 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: I feel like since we've seen you know, Nancy Pelosi 560 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: is stepping out of leadership, is that it's actually incredibly 561 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: hard and we saw this by the way in the 562 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: Paul Ryan Congress, that it's actually incredibly hard to get 563 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: all of these congress people to agree with stuff and 564 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: it ends up being you know, very tough whipping votes. 565 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,239 Speaker 1: So do you think this Kevin McCarthy Congress, if it 566 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: does come to pass, we'll be able to pass legislation. 567 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: And I mean, do they even have a legislative agenda? 568 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: They really don't other than tax cuts, which Liz Trust 569 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: tried and almost destroyed the British economy, and you can't 570 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: have cutting taxes for the wealthy during inflation. But they 571 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: really have no other agenda. I have no idea whether 572 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: mccarthur is gonna get the votes or not, because you're 573 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: literally asking me to predict what people like Marginell Grain 574 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: or some of the Freedom Calucis are gonna do it. 575 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: Who knows. And then I have no idea how long 576 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: he would have to the speakership. I mean, if they 577 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: allow for basically no confidence vote at any moment, his 578 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: speakership will constantly be be threatened by an extreme group. 579 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see what they're gonna do. I mean, 580 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: right now, the only thing that the Republicans can can 581 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: seem to agree on is what we want to investigate 582 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's personal family, and we want to investigate the 583 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 1: binding administration. And my view is that will be a 584 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: colossal mistake if they do that, it will be similar 585 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: to the mistakes that the ging rich House made, can 586 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: then Bill Clinton in a very easy re election. And 587 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: nine that is one other question I have is like 588 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: there's anxiety and I've read there was a really interesting 589 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: piece in the Washington Post by Plumbline gps us, you 590 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: know that blog where he talked about this idea that 591 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: this Republican Party wants to make fake investigations into hunter 592 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: By Nor these sort of more scurless investigations the same 593 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: as like the real investigations into Trump's document case, which 594 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: is like an open and shot he had documents he 595 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: took from the White House, and that that false equivalence 596 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: he could in fact be propagated in the mainstream media. 597 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: But it's also possible, right that this could really help democrats. 598 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: I believe that what people want is solving problems. What 599 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: people want is, how are you helping my kid get 600 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: a good paint job, get a good education. How are 601 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: you making sure that she could stay in the town 602 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: that she grew up in. How are you making sure 603 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: that the cost of food and cost of gas is 604 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: coming down. Here's the reality. When we did investigations against 605 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, which were justified for the sake of democracy, 606 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: and I supported them. I would support them again because 607 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: his actions were so extreme that was not politically helpful. 608 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: A lot of times that would actually come at a cost. 609 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: But what we said is our constitutional responsibility was so 610 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: great that we have to do this. That's what democracy demands. 611 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: What people want is not investigations. What people want is 612 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: solving their problems. So if what the Republicans are gonna 613 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: do is frivolous investigations, because there is absolutely no one, 614 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: even people who are Republicans and voted against Joe Biden, 615 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: I don't think there is anyone who good conscious things 616 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: that in Joe Biddens two years, he's done anything that 617 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: has violated the Constitution. And if they're gonna subject him 618 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: to frivolous investigations, hey, that's gonna make Joe Biden more sympathetic, 619 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: and I think help Biden and and Be it's gonna 620 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: look like they're totally ignoring people's problems, um right, which 621 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: I think is important. I also do think that Democrats 622 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: are not in occult. So I like Hunter Biden. I 623 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: don't know him particularly well, but I've had him on 624 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: the podcast. He's fine, But like if he did a crime, Like, 625 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: I don't think the Demo it's not like with the 626 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: Trump family, right, I mean, I don't think he did. 627 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: But and he doesn't work in the government. And the 628 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: fact that these people never wanted a Vanka uh investigated 629 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: is totally fascinating to me when she actually did. But 630 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just saying, like, I'm not sure that 631 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: going after Biden's family, even though it's a huge waste 632 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: of time, you know what, to stick it to democrats 633 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: is quite is not quite owning the lips if that 634 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: makes sense. Well, no, it's creating a horrible precedent. I 635 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: never went after anyone in Trump's family who was not 636 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: part of the White House. It wasn't my decision to 637 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: put Jared Pushner in charge of Middle East peace, you know, 638 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: event Trump the head of economic policy. If Jared Kushner 639 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: at Abounka Trump, or let's take a bouncer Trump who 640 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,719 Speaker 1: said she wants nothing to do with this new presidential campaign, 641 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: if that, if she had taken that position from day one, 642 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: I would have said, it's totally not Congress's responsibility to 643 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: be going after them. Now, the Justice Department, other agencies line, 644 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: but why is Congress oversight going after a PA relative 645 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: that that has nothing to there was nothing to do 646 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: with the functioning of government, and no want to think 647 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be held to the same standard of law 648 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: as anyone. And that's why we have law enforcement agencies 649 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: and and they're doing that now. If there were some 650 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: allegation that somehow the law enforcement agencies weren't doing their job, 651 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: that there were being that would be something for Congress 652 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: investing it. But that's not been the case. We've got 653 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: this Elon Musk Twitter takeover. He has decided he's going 654 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: to write the liberal bet. You know. He he's fighting 655 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: the imaginary oppression that many conservatives do. I mean, is 656 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: there a government oversight? I mean, it is this enormous 657 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: tech company. It is now sort of the plaything of 658 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: a billionaire. Should this be how it is? I obviously 659 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: think that there needs to be a separation between capital 660 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: longer or whoever it is, whether it's Elon Musk, whether 661 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: it was someone more liberal. And people are making to 662 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: say visions about media platforms. It would be as if 663 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos was sitting there making decisions about which op 664 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: ed to publish in the Washington Post or what story 665 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: to publish. That'd be a problem with that, and so 666 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: we need rules of separation from new social media companies. 667 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: The one thing I will say, though, is some of 668 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: the reaction to Elon Musk is exactly what he wants. 669 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: I mean, he's someone who doesn't mind engaging in the 670 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: fray and I think is enjoying sort of the back 671 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: and forth, and so I think we ought to be 672 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: making our points. But the over at the top sort 673 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: of attacks I think almost feed into the narrative that 674 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: he's trying to create. I think that's a really good point. 675 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Rocana, so interesting, Please come back. 676 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: Thank you always enjoy it. Hugo Lowe is a reporter 677 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: at The Guardian. Welcome to Fast Politics, Hugo, thanks for 678 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: having me. I feel like Donald Trump will be a 679 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: defendant for the rest of his life. I mean that 680 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: seems a fair assessment, right, I mean, what, what are 681 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: the cases that are you're covering right now? Look, I 682 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 1: think there are two principally dangerous ones for him right now. 683 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: That's the mar Lango documents case, which is moving pretty swiftly. 684 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: Of course, the January six criminal investigations that haven't quite 685 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: ensnared him. Yet but seemed to be moving inexorably towards him. 686 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: And you know, I think if you're looking at potential 687 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: charges against Donald Trump before the election, before the presidential 688 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: those are the two investigations they're most likely to come 689 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: out of, at least on the d o J side. 690 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: You know, if you talk to Trump lawyers, that will 691 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: also right about one other investigation, and that's, of course, 692 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: the Georgia Fulton County investigation into the Georgia Fake ellector scheme. Okay, 693 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: so let's start with the Documents case, because I mean, 694 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 1: from people I've talked to, like one George Conway, that 695 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 1: seems like the most open and shot. Where are with 696 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: with the Documents case? That wasn't they were in court today, right? 697 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 1: Or they are going to be in court today? Yeah, 698 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: So there is going to be a hearing before the 699 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: Eleventh Circuit in Atlanta today and we're actually recording this 700 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: before Trump's lawyers argued before a panel that's really unfavorable 701 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: to him. But this is about the special Mass litigation. 702 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: It's not directly to do with the Documents case. And 703 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: the reason why I think a lot of lawyers think 704 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: the Documents case is open and shut is because if 705 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: you look at the search for an affidavit that was 706 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: used by the FBI to see these documents, they're investigating 707 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: three crimes. First is the kind of retention of national 708 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: defense information, the second is obstruction, and the third is 709 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: about kind of concealment or removal of government records. And 710 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: at least for the first potential charge, it's quite clear 711 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: that Trump had these kind of documents bearing class sticking 712 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: classification markings in his residence. Like that's what makes this 713 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: more open and shot than I think any of the 714 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: other investigations, because the crime is in is him actually 715 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: having it, and the FBI caught him actually having. Now, 716 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,439 Speaker 1: the part that makes it less straightforward is the fact 717 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,919 Speaker 1: that you know these are intelligence documents, and it does 718 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,959 Speaker 1: get more difficult with you know, arguments about detastication, whether 719 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: they're true or not, arguments about the Presidential Records Act. 720 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,720 Speaker 1: And then finally also the venue, because if the crimes 721 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: are committed in Florida, the venue would be some district Florida. 722 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: Then this goes to trial, or if it were to 723 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: go to trial and just on bounds, it's difficult to 724 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: know if a Florida jury would ever convict trunk. I 725 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: just want to get back to the documents case because 726 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: there's some question right now that there will be some 727 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 1: question between the special Master, right and the documents case. Yeah, Look, 728 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 1: these two ended up intersecting because Trump needed a way 729 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: to slow down the documents investigation. If you think back 730 00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: to August and the summer um, Trump was kind of 731 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: at the back end of a number of re aggressive 732 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: moves by the Department of Justice. You know, he had 733 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: just been served a grand jury subpoena in May ask 734 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: him for the documents. You know, his lawyers finally produced 735 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: some documents at the end of the month, and then 736 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: his house got searched on August eight, and so he 737 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: was kind of on the back foot reading a little bit. 738 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: And then you know, he was getting hit on Fox 739 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: News for not doing any sort of legal motion. And 740 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: so what they settled on doing was to ask for 741 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: a special Master, and they went, you know, judge shopping. 742 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: They went and got Judge Cannon, who wasn't who would 743 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: have been the automatic choice. Probably they really had to 744 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: go up to four pers and then Cannon actually gave 745 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: them this incredible stroke of luck, which was to say, Okay, 746 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to give your special Master, and that tied 747 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: up the documents in the litigation, and it meant that 748 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice couldn't access to them in the investigation. Now, 749 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: part of that order got overturned. Back in September, the 750 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: Eleventh Circle already ruled that the classified documents at least 751 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: could no longer be part of a special Master review, 752 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: and they them available once again to the Department of Justice. 753 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: But right now we've still been litigating thousands of documents 754 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: that were not classified, and we understand that that has 755 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: been hindering the criminal investigation. That could end today. Why 756 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: could that end today? When Trump's lawyers go before the 757 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: leven Circuit, They're going to find themselves before the three 758 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: panel of judges. Two of the judges on this panel 759 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: previously ruled against Trump back in September, saying the special 760 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: Master should never have been granted in the first place. 761 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: They actually went beyond that ruling, even though this is 762 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: a very Trump heavy circuit, the Eleventh Circuit, right, I mean, 763 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: it just goes to show you, I think that people 764 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: are just generally speaking, were kind of appalled both at 765 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: the legal decision making surrounding Cannon's appointment of our Special 766 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: Master and also Trump's legal arguments because they have been 767 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: very Then can we talk about the special counsel and 768 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: where that fits into all of this? Yes, So this 769 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: investigation is throwing up a lot of specials. You know, 770 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: your special Master looking at whether there's privileged protections on 771 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 1: the documents, and there is this Shall Graham jury in Georgia. 772 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: Yes there is, So choose your special right exactly. But 773 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: the special counsel is a really interesting move by the 774 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,800 Speaker 1: Attorney General, right, I mean, he said at the press 775 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 1: conference at Main Justice in DC that he was appointing 776 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,800 Speaker 1: a special counsel because he wanted to ensure that the 777 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: department was effectively protected from appearance of conflict, appearance of 778 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: political interference because Trump just announced that he's running for 779 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: president and that Biden is probably going to be the 780 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: likely declared presidential candidate as well. But I think, you know, 781 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: there's a nuance here that people and missed on the surface, 782 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: which is if they had no intention of charging Trump 783 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: and they thought the evidence was really thin and that 784 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: there was no case here, they would have closed this 785 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: case instead. Because Garland four he might end up charging Trump, 786 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: and he might end up charging Trump while he's running 787 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: for president be appointed a special count. But I think 788 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: that's a very interesting nuance. Yeah, I want to talk 789 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 1: about that more. What does that mean? We had talked 790 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: about this because there are a lot of people who 791 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: listen to this podcasts who are who are kind of 792 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, who may have gotten their hopes up with 793 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: other special counsels who shall not be named, like John Darham, right, yeah, 794 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: exactly gender everyone was so, but like one Robert Mueller 795 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: explain a little bit. And I think you and I 796 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: talked about this socially that Mueller actually, even though he 797 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,839 Speaker 1: didn't charge Trump, he did charge a lot of other people. Yeah, 798 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,800 Speaker 1: special counsels. In recent years, I've got a lot of 799 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,800 Speaker 1: criticism because the prosecutions have not done great. Like Mulla 800 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: didn't get the Trump. That's the main complaint. You know, 801 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: Durham's Prosecution's kind of ended up going nowhere. Durham's appointment 802 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 1: was more partisan, wasn't it then? Moller? Yeah, yeah, I'd 803 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: say so. I mean the main criticism of Mama, right 804 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: was that he didn't get Trump. Right, he couldn't get Trump, 805 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,840 Speaker 1: but he did get a number of other people, people 806 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: like Paul Manifold, people like gates on federal crimes pertained 807 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: of foreign agent registrations under the Phara law. And this 808 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: was actually pretty novel. You know, we really hadn't seen 809 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: prosecutions like this from the Partment Justice kind of prior 810 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: to Mama. It actually spurred the d o J to create, 811 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, a bigger team looking at PHARA crimes. And 812 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,439 Speaker 1: so I think, actually the legacy of Mama, even though 813 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: this element of Trump and you know, Russia and his campaigns, 814 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: times the Russia becomes the focus, and rightly so, because 815 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 1: that was the biggest fish, Right, It's not like Mama 816 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,800 Speaker 1: didn't do anything. And actually I think Mama exposed to 817 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: a large degree how Trump's campaign was working to advance 818 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: the interests of foreign governments, and I think that actually 819 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:08,240 Speaker 1: was pretty significant. So isn't there Trump organization still on trial? 820 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean Trump's on trial and numerous but 821 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: I mean isn't his family business still I mean, that's 822 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: that trial is still going, right, Yeah, and he's got 823 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 1: another one coming up. Okay, hard to keep track of 824 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: all this, and it's kind of ridiculous. Look, with the 825 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: special counsel, I see it as a lot changing and 826 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: also at the same time, not a lot changing. What 827 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:38,239 Speaker 1: changes is the day to day management of the documents investigation, 828 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: and key elements of the January six investigation go directly 829 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,320 Speaker 1: to Jack Smith. I think this is actually a positive 830 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: move because Jack Smith can dedicate all of his time 831 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,879 Speaker 1: and resources and he's going to have his own team. 832 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: He's going to have his own office to look solely 833 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,320 Speaker 1: at these cases. Right now, the documents cases being handled 834 00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: or what's being handled by the National Scurity Division and 835 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 1: I guess presumably by the you know a little bit 836 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: by the Depth Attorney General's Office and the Attorney General. 837 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: And so by putting a dedicated team on this, it actually, 838 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: I think kind of crystallizes resources on those kind of 839 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: really important investigations in a way that hasn't been happening 840 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,960 Speaker 1: to date. Because the National Sperity Division probably got lots 841 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: of active cases, this is not the only thing they've 842 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: been looking and so by kind of centralizing all of 843 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: the resources and focus, I think you actually get pretty 844 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: positive synergies that. The other thing about the Special Counsel though, 845 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: is that it doesn't actually change the investigation very much. 846 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,839 Speaker 1: They've still done, you know, close the six to ten 847 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: months of investigative work through the trial attorneys. They're just 848 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,280 Speaker 1: going to be put straight under the management of Jack Smith. 849 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,840 Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, Jack's gonna Jack Smith is 850 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: going to hire an entire, huge new team that has 851 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: to relearn all facts or the case you're gonna you know, 852 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,759 Speaker 1: you're gonna transfer some of this knowledge of path and 853 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,360 Speaker 1: in any case, you know, these laws are extremely smart. 854 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: The time to get rid up on a case, especially 855 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,799 Speaker 1: something in the documents case, which is not that big, 856 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,240 Speaker 1: it's probably pretty quick. So I don't think there's significant 857 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: lay at all. I think really this has been a 858 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 1: move to consolidate resources and also make sure that the 859 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: Department is above reproach when it comes to considering charges. 860 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: Given Trump has already declared, and I think they are 861 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: likely to bring charge. Interesting and now we all know 862 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: that Trump can still run for president even if he's charged. Look, 863 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,799 Speaker 1: there's nothing in the constitution that says you can't run 864 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 1: the president if you're in jail, right, so that too, 865 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,400 Speaker 1: which he may try, yes, talk to me about. I mean, 866 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,800 Speaker 1: will this be a Thanksgiving or we find you know, 867 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,720 Speaker 1: people where there are warrants for you know, a Christmas 868 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 1: where there's warrants for arrests Friday night news dumps. I mean, 869 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: or do you not see it working out like that? 870 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,399 Speaker 1: I don't think you will get under the Christmas train 871 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: find warrants for Boris Epstein and top Trump officials. God, 872 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: I think these cases moved very quickly. In the next 873 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: kind of six months. I don't think you get any 874 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: sort of kind of discussion about charges, you know, serious discussion, 875 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,240 Speaker 1: like you're gonna get a prosecution memory inside the department 876 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: before the end of December. You know that's in part 877 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 1: because the Special Councils still has to come back. He 878 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: starts to set up his offers, he still has to 879 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, they have to write a potential prosecution member 880 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 1: if they are going to prosecute. They've still got subpoenas 881 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,840 Speaker 1: that are in balanced because you know they've been issued recently, 882 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 1: and they need to get the documents back. They need 883 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,960 Speaker 1: to get the testimony from potential witnesses. That are a 884 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: number of witnesses, people like what no Odor the white 885 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 1: the valet that followed Trump from the White House to 886 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,399 Speaker 1: Laga and then was captured on the White House valley, right, 887 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: and then you know he was removing boxes from the 888 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,320 Speaker 1: storage room. It appears that he has been threatened with 889 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,799 Speaker 1: charges surrounding making false statements to the FBI. That has 890 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,880 Speaker 1: really spooked his lawyer and obviously him from what I 891 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: understand one of my reporting, the Justice Department went back 892 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,839 Speaker 1: and actually wanted to reinterview him. His lawyer said, no way, 893 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,600 Speaker 1: not at this point. And so the Department's going to 894 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: have to figure out if they really want more testimony 895 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: from nod how are they going to do that? Right 896 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 1: For instance, they have to consider if they're gonna give 897 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,279 Speaker 1: him immunity like they did Cashpital, which said, Okay, we're 898 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 1: not going to prosecute you, and we're not going to 899 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: prosecute you based on the fruits of the information that 900 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 1: you give us, but you know, you do have to 901 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: testify under oath and give us everything that you have, 902 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,440 Speaker 1: or they can go down a separate route. And if 903 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,360 Speaker 1: they really want his testimony and charge no to himself. 904 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,360 Speaker 1: And then if he pleads guilty, you know, they can 905 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 1: offer him a plea deal and be like, okay, well look, 906 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: if you cooperate with the investigation, you know we will 907 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,680 Speaker 1: we will recommend a reduction in your sentence or your 908 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,560 Speaker 1: penalty or whatever. And so you know, this is among 909 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,840 Speaker 1: the considerations that the Department has to resolve before it 910 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: goes forward and making putting together a prosecution memo giving 911 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: that the Special Counsel and the Special Council to make 912 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,000 Speaker 1: his decision and report back to the Attorney General. So 913 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,320 Speaker 1: I think you're looking at a runway of at least, 914 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, probably two months. I don't think anything major 915 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,920 Speaker 1: in terms of going towards the prosecution happens before the 916 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,080 Speaker 1: end of the year. But I think in the new year, 917 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 1: in the spring, you know, things could really accelerate, depending 918 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: on you know, how the Department moves, you know, the 919 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 1: facts of the case, what new evidence they're able to cover, 920 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,800 Speaker 1: especially in the documents case. I think January six is 921 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more market Still, the r n C 922 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,920 Speaker 1: was paying for some of Trump's legal bills, but not 923 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,560 Speaker 1: all of them. Can you explain that? Yeah. Trump has 924 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,800 Speaker 1: always been very anemic to paying biggle bills, and I 925 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,960 Speaker 1: think for a long time he discovered there was a 926 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 1: great way to get the RNC to pay for it. 927 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: But in kind of in recent months, I think, you know, 928 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,800 Speaker 1: he has recognized the severity and the seriousness of what 929 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: is going on over at the Department as they kind 930 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,759 Speaker 1: of focused their cross hairs on him. And so I 931 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:55,279 Speaker 1: think the fact that he personally approved out of the 932 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 1: Same America pack paying Chris kais you know, a three 933 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 1: million dollar ants fore to kind of work from on 934 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,320 Speaker 1: his legal team was an indication of how now Trump 935 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,560 Speaker 1: is serious about these investigations as well. You know, I 936 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,959 Speaker 1: certainly think there was an attitude among kind of Trump 937 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:17,239 Speaker 1: aids and Trump himself that the January six investigation was 938 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,440 Speaker 1: not that dangerous to him because he wasn't the one that, 939 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,759 Speaker 1: you know, for instance, was cornating the Galector scheme. He 940 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,200 Speaker 1: wasn't the one, you know, messaging the proud Boys and 941 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: oath keepers actually storm the capital. You know, we don't 942 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: know yet, but that seems to be the case, at 943 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 1: least for a moment. It seems to If he did, 944 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: it went through into media. And so Trump has always 945 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 1: felt like the January six cases were bad, but potentially 946 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,400 Speaker 1: not terrible for him. The documents case is a completely 947 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,920 Speaker 1: different beast, and I think he recognized that that and 948 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,440 Speaker 1: that is why he has been paying the lawyers out 949 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,960 Speaker 1: of Save America because he wants kind of personal oversight 950 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,240 Speaker 1: over them. And I think that's a very interesting shift 951 00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: in his dynamic and the way that he's viewed these 952 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,680 Speaker 1: cases and the way that he's viewing his potential legal parls. 953 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,520 Speaker 1: So interesting. Thank you so much, Hugo. I hope you'll 954 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:11,280 Speaker 1: come back. Yeah, I love you. Thank you, Molly junk Fast, 955 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:16,120 Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon. It's one of those moments of you just 956 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,040 Speaker 1: wish you didn't have to talk about it because it's 957 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,279 Speaker 1: so pathetic. We've been building to this for a long 958 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,319 Speaker 1: time in this country, which is this sort of far 959 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,719 Speaker 1: right ship posters have decided that they desperately want a 960 00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 1: civil war. I think the mid terms showed them that 961 00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,920 Speaker 1: the only way they're going to get their people in 962 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: positions of power is by fermenting violence. And so now 963 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,399 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we are recording this two days 964 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,960 Speaker 1: after a terrible nightclub shooting in Colorado Springs, which resulted 965 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,360 Speaker 1: in five deaths at a place that had drag queens, 966 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: a bar that had drag queens. And you'll remember that 967 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,759 Speaker 1: a lot of these far right people are obsessed with 968 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,719 Speaker 1: drag queens. They think that drag queens somehow they have 969 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,920 Speaker 1: the connection between drag queens and children, which, by the way, 970 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,240 Speaker 1: I've had all these children. I have never ever encountered 971 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: drag queens at any child activity ever, so I don't 972 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,560 Speaker 1: know where they're taking their children. And you and I 973 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: circle around probably some of the most far left progressive 974 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: people in New York City. We live in a blue 975 00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,240 Speaker 1: city in a blue state. The rest of the country 976 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,799 Speaker 1: is working hard to take down the temperature. And then 977 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,839 Speaker 1: we have Tempoole who has decided that instead of taking 978 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 1: down the temperature, he is going to encourage a civil 979 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,120 Speaker 1: war with a tweet that says, the grooming of children 980 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,240 Speaker 1: is not stopping again. We have no evidence to support 981 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 1: that anyone is being groomed, right, I guess he means 982 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,160 Speaker 1: the teaching of sex ad people are calling for more 983 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,719 Speaker 1: violence again. Nobody is calling for more violence. The people 984 00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 1: who are calling for more violence or him. I do 985 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,920 Speaker 1: not think legislators will stop the grooming again. Nobody is grooming, 986 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 1: so this is not a true thing. People will not 987 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,759 Speaker 1: stop calling for violence again. I think that's him he's 988 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: talking about it's his comment section. Maybe we're all the 989 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,080 Speaker 1: biggest assholes on the internet. Hang out, right, so you 990 00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:15,280 Speaker 1: tell me what happens next. Again, we have five people murdered, 991 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:20,080 Speaker 1: We have this terrible incident. The rest of the country 992 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,359 Speaker 1: is offering thoughts and prayers, but not for our right 993 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:28,759 Speaker 1: influencer Tim Poole, who is offering violence and violence. And 994 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,840 Speaker 1: he's not alone. Matt Walsh, who is the king of 995 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,880 Speaker 1: the stuff, started blaming the victims of the nightclub today 996 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,160 Speaker 1: on his show. And this comes after Tucker Carlson weeks 997 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 1: ago said that people should take up arms against trans people. 998 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: So all of these people who are trying to forment 999 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:50,600 Speaker 1: violence and trying to hurt people and trying to get 1000 00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,560 Speaker 1: and you know they're not They're not going to do 1001 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,000 Speaker 1: it themselves. They're going to encourage their people to do it. 1002 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,000 Speaker 1: They are all our moment of gray. There are not 1003 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,760 Speaker 1: enough moments for this. And you know now that Twitter 1004 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,200 Speaker 1: is run by a free speech absolutist who believes that 1005 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,680 Speaker 1: all of this is fine. We're going to see more 1006 00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: of this and it's absolutely heartbreaking and I wish we 1007 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,120 Speaker 1: weren't having it happen. That's it for this episode of 1008 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to 1009 00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,839 Speaker 1: hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all 1010 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,439 Speaker 1: this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send 1011 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,160 Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And 1012 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:30,760 Speaker 1: again thanks for listening.