Speaker 1: Hello, friends, and welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the
Speaker 1: show where we tell you everything you don't know about
Speaker 1: the worst people in all of history. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Robert Evans, and this week my co host is Anna Hasnia,
Speaker 1: producer extraordinaire, co host of the podcast Ethnically Ambiguous and
Speaker 1: all around woman about Town. Anna, Today we are talking
Speaker 1: about Harvey Weinstein. What. Yeah, I knew. Yes, my my
Speaker 1: guests for this show come in cold, but this is
Speaker 1: a case that it is impossible to come in entirely
Speaker 1: cold on because his whole saga has been one of
Speaker 1: the biggest stories in the last couple of years. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I couldn't help myself. I had to read all those
Speaker 1: Running Fair articles about him, some great articles. I'm a
Speaker 1: huge black cute fan, so like I was deep in
Speaker 1: there trying to get involved, a big fan of Israeli
Speaker 1: aligned spy agencies. Yeah, what can I say, I'm a
Speaker 1: massad head. Um. We'll be digging into some of that,
Speaker 1: a lot of that. Actually, just as a heads up,
Speaker 1: this is going to be a two part of episodes,
Speaker 1: So if you're one of those people who hates the
Speaker 1: number two, you should be aware of that. Um. It
Speaker 1: just wounded up being a lot longer in terms of
Speaker 1: research than we had anticipated. It's one of those things
Speaker 1: where every time I would finish reading an article and
Speaker 1: set down to write, two new ones would pop up.
Speaker 1: There's just so much on this case. I would go
Speaker 1: so far as to say I can't imagine one person's
Speaker 1: crimes being better reported than Weinstein's have. But it does
Speaker 1: mean that there's a lot to talk about. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll be dropping the second part of this on Thursday. UM.
Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted to get what is your
Speaker 1: understanding of the culpability of the people around Harvey Weinstein. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Mr Weinstein has been accused at this point of dozens
Speaker 1: of sexual assaults, multiple rapes, UH, spanning a period of
Speaker 1: time from the nineties seventies until just a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, UM, and probably going on before and after that,
Speaker 1: to be entirely honest, But what's your understanding of the
Speaker 1: guilt of sort of the people around him? UM. I
Speaker 1: do believe um his company with his brother was aware
Speaker 1: of his behavior and use a lot of the resources
Speaker 1: to cover it up. I don't think his wife knew
Speaker 1: too much because I believe they lived somewhat separate lives
Speaker 1: because people I feel like in that sort of industry,
Speaker 1: we're so high up. You know, they spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time traveling, moving around, and you know they have
Speaker 1: busy lives and not a lot overlaps um. And I
Speaker 1: think he he had a lot of money and power
Speaker 1: to cover up a lot of things. So I do
Speaker 1: think people knew, But I think it's also one of
Speaker 1: those things where you just don't touch it because you
Speaker 1: want to protect your own like interests, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. That's exactly in fact what we're going to
Speaker 1: be talking about today. So for those of you who
Speaker 1: are a little bit less up to date on things,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give a brief overview the case. In
Speaker 1: October of last year, the New York Times and The
Speaker 1: New York Are both started publishing what would become a
Speaker 1: long series of articles about sexual assaults by Mr Weinstein. Initially,
Speaker 1: more than a dozen women accused him of sexual harassment
Speaker 1: and assault. After the first New York Times article, more
Speaker 1: and more accusations came coming in, including accusations of rape.
Speaker 1: As of the recording of this podcast, at least eighty
Speaker 1: five women have come forward with accusations uh he was
Speaker 1: fired almost immediately from his job at the company that
Speaker 1: bore his name, and he's just turned himself into the NYPD.
Speaker 1: Which one of the things I thought was interesting about
Speaker 1: him turning himself in is he was pictured with three books,
Speaker 1: um which he was there for like two hours. You
Speaker 1: don't bring three books to read to court where you're
Speaker 1: waiting to be arraigned. So he's holding a number of books,
Speaker 1: one of which was a biography of the director Elliott
Speaker 1: kazan Um and I suspect he was trying to like
Speaker 1: signal a message by the books he was carrying, because
Speaker 1: kazan is or was a very popular and would regarded
Speaker 1: director in like the forties and fifties whose career was
Speaker 1: derailed by the Red Scare. He was a member of
Speaker 1: the Communist Party. He was like taken in by the
Speaker 1: House an American Activities Committee any named names, which like
Speaker 1: further disgraced him. And so this biography is like someone
Speaker 1: looking trying to evaluate his legacy now and sort of
Speaker 1: demon because he made all these great movies and like
Speaker 1: it's a tragedy that he was railroaded by this moral
Speaker 1: movement that came around and wound up in the long
Speaker 1: sweep of history being seen as like horribly immoral, which
Speaker 1: is clearly how Weinstein views himself. That's his hope is
Speaker 1: that he's going to get I think he's signaling by
Speaker 1: carrying this book into court that in thirty or forty years,
Speaker 1: people will look at me as a genius who was
Speaker 1: unfairly railroaded by a movement that yeah, yeah, that's the message.
Speaker 1: He's right. Why else would you carry that book? Would
Speaker 1: argue not the same thing. Well, no, And also like
Speaker 1: one of the things about it that is, like Eliah Kazan,
Speaker 1: you can like say what you want about the morality
Speaker 1: of turning in people during the Red Scare, but he
Speaker 1: was like an actual creative person who made art. And
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same thing with Roman Polanski. Like
Speaker 1: Roman Polanski you can say, you know, the crimes he
Speaker 1: committed weren't worth the movies we got out of him,
Speaker 1: but he made movies. Weinstein was never anything but like
Speaker 1: the money guy, Like he was good at picking scripts
Speaker 1: and good it being like, oh yeah, I figured, like
Speaker 1: this guy might be famous, but he didn't make any
Speaker 1: of the stuff that he's famous for, So like that's
Speaker 1: but I feel like this guy in fifty years. The
Speaker 1: most notable thing about him in the annals of history
Speaker 1: is that his the accusations against him, sparked this movement.
Speaker 1: That's what he's going to be remembered for it. He's
Speaker 1: gonna be remembered for anything he did as a producer,
Speaker 1: not in the long span of time. Um. What a
Speaker 1: piece of ship. He's a real piece of shit. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of why when we started working on
Speaker 1: this episode, I thought it was going to be more
Speaker 1: of a dive into Weinstein's life and uh, everything he'd
Speaker 1: done and sort of cut it apart piece by piece
Speaker 1: like that. But the more I've read about him, he's
Speaker 1: not an interesting guy. Like he's a bastard, But he's
Speaker 1: not an interesting bastard. He's a dull, gross, boring, little
Speaker 1: puddle of a man. I feel like, you can't be
Speaker 1: that interesting if you're that interested in like raping women. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's just not much to say about him other than
Speaker 1: the crimes he committed, and a lot has been said
Speaker 1: about that, um and so. And I also think this
Speaker 1: is a case where he's going to get as much
Speaker 1: justice as a rich, probable rapist can get in our society. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he'll be playing tennis in prison. He'll be playing tennis
Speaker 1: in prison. But also like, it's not like Cosby where
Speaker 1: he's getting caught right as he's too old to really
Speaker 1: understand what's going on, and he's not losing any productive years.
Speaker 1: Harvey probably would have had another ten twenty years running
Speaker 1: a studio or you know, running his company if he
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten caught. So he's his career is being cut short,
Speaker 1: and that's a good thing. This is all along with
Speaker 1: me saying this episode of Behind the Bastards is not
Speaker 1: going to focus on Harvey Weinstein. He's not the bastard
Speaker 1: that I think we're interested in right here, because when
Speaker 1: you read all the articles that have been published in
Speaker 1: the the interviews with everybody who was around him, it
Speaker 1: becomes clear that it took dozens, if not hundreds of people,
Speaker 1: um and maybe even more to make his behavior possible.
Speaker 1: Um So, my initial idea with this podcast was to
Speaker 1: sort of catalog all the different people who helped him
Speaker 1: hurt so many other people, um and it it. Over
Speaker 1: the course of my research, I did find a lot
Speaker 1: of enablers, like buildings filled with people who made this possible.
Speaker 1: But I also found a sort of foggy layer of
Speaker 1: doubt floating over everybody involved. That makes me kind of
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and queasy. So it's one of I keep going
Speaker 1: back and forth about whether or not this episode is
Speaker 1: a good idea, but we're just going to dive into
Speaker 1: it now. Um. That's interesting. It feels like when you're
Speaker 1: that powerful, like God, the concept of power is one
Speaker 1: of the most terrifying things you really think about it.
Speaker 1: It almost feels like just doing something very normal, like
Speaker 1: going to get coffee and and just hanging with your
Speaker 1: friends is just it's not good enough anymore. Like once
Speaker 1: you've lived that life, like the stakes have to be
Speaker 1: raised and now it's you know, now, you know, for fun,
Speaker 1: I invite women up to a hotel room and try
Speaker 1: and get them to watch me shower naked. It's like,
Speaker 1: so you're thinking about the the impact that the power
Speaker 1: had on him, and I guess what I'm thinking about everyone? Yeah,
Speaker 1: is that That's what I'm I'm interested in here. There's
Speaker 1: a really famous Edmond Burke quote about the Nazis where
Speaker 1: he says that you know, all that's necessary for evil
Speaker 1: to thrive as for goodman to do nothing, And that's
Speaker 1: a really famous quote. But I think that's almost comforting
Speaker 1: to imagine that terrible people succeed because good people don't
Speaker 1: do anything. The reality that you see in the Weinstein
Speaker 1: case is that he succeeded for so long because a
Speaker 1: lot of good people were willing to help him and
Speaker 1: no new to an extent what they were doing. So, uh,
Speaker 1: let's dig again. Harvey Weinstein was born on March nineteenth two.
Speaker 1: He and his brother Bob co founded Miramax. Bob has
Speaker 1: also been accused of sexual harassment. Together, they produced a
Speaker 1: number of famous movies, including pulp fiction Goodwill, Hunting, The
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings in the King's Speech. In total
Speaker 1: movies Harvey produced garnered more than three hundred Oscar nominations,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of Oscar nominations. His earliest recorded
Speaker 1: victim was Hope ex Dia More sometime in the seventies.
Speaker 1: She was an employee of a concert production company that
Speaker 1: he ran. At the time, they were doing a job
Speaker 1: in Manhattan and staying in a hotel. Harvey allegedly told
Speaker 1: her there'd been a booking mix up and they'd have
Speaker 1: to share a room. Then he allegedly raped her. His
Speaker 1: most recent reported assault was in March fifteen, when he
Speaker 1: allegedly groped Ambro Battlana. That's the bird's eye view of
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein's career as both a production guy and a rapist.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So in between those two assaults, possibly before
Speaker 1: and after, there were dozens and dozens of other women.
Speaker 1: Some claim they were groped, some claim they were raped.
Speaker 1: The allegations of Lauren Seven are pretty standard. She's a
Speaker 1: journalist who claims Weinstein lured her into an empty restaurant
Speaker 1: he part owned and then hit on her. She says
Speaker 1: that when she turned him down, he put his body
Speaker 1: between her and the exit, told her to quote stand
Speaker 1: there and shut up end quote, and then masturbated into
Speaker 1: a potted plant. As you do, as you do because
Speaker 1: one a woman turns you down. Yeah. So Arman and
Speaker 1: Miriy was the manager of that restaurant at the time
Speaker 1: when this happened, and when Seven came forward with her
Speaker 1: story last October, he came forward to because Will he
Speaker 1: hadn't seen that incident. He realized that he seems Harvey
Speaker 1: do something similar. Um, it was a quote from him.
Speaker 1: What I remember about this incident is that my sux
Speaker 1: chef came into my office, furious telling me that quote
Speaker 1: some fat fox saying he's an owner he didn't know
Speaker 1: the name, had come into the kitchen with a woman
Speaker 1: and shoved a hundred dollar bill at him and told
Speaker 1: him to get out. So yeah, so even in kitchens
Speaker 1: with people around, Yeah, yeah, yeah, God, Marvy, people cook,
Speaker 1: people have to eat that food. Oh, it's about to
Speaker 1: get where if that if that's if that's what's kicking
Speaker 1: you out about this story, it's about to get even worse. Um. So,
Speaker 1: according to Armand Armand hears this from the chef. The
Speaker 1: chef is like, yeah, this fat fuck just gave me
Speaker 1: a hundred bucks and shoved me out of the kitchen.
Speaker 1: So he goes back into the kitchen with the chef
Speaker 1: and he witnessed Weinstein quote fixing his belt. Um and
Speaker 1: then said quote. The chef picks up a pot that
Speaker 1: had been placed on the stove. It had been defiled.
Speaker 1: It was so bizarre, we couldn't believe it happened. He like,
Speaker 1: is he just did a pot and a potted plant
Speaker 1: at the same restaurant. You. I hope they burn that
Speaker 1: pot because that is the most unsanitary. I feel like
Speaker 1: you burned the restaurant at this point, because if there
Speaker 1: are two stories of him ejaculating into random objects at
Speaker 1: this restaurant he owned, he came on every square, is
Speaker 1: that is that come? This place is covered, These tablecloths
Speaker 1: were black this morning. Everything. Yeah, I'm sorry. What's the
Speaker 1: restaurant's name? Oh jeez, I I just forgever. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's walk by operational anymore. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: a good microcosm of the sort of things he got
Speaker 1: up to. But it also gives you an idea of
Speaker 1: how many people are involved when you start talking about complicity,
Speaker 1: because is that sous chef a little complicit that particular case.
Speaker 1: It doesn't sounds like it, because Harvey was just shoving
Speaker 1: a money at him and saying, get the funk out
Speaker 1: of here, right, But he if he didn't know that
Speaker 1: the woman was dragged in there, because you don't really
Speaker 1: know in a situation exactly exactly, it's really unclear, and
Speaker 1: Armand said something like that, It's like I didn't say
Speaker 1: anything about it because I didn't know anything about the
Speaker 1: woman involved. I had no idea what was going on.
Speaker 1: It was just some rich guy paying a masturbate in
Speaker 1: a pot that he technically owned, So yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: little messed up. Armand does claim that after Lauren sibbons
Speaker 1: plant story went viral, Weinstein called him and asked him
Speaker 1: to deny that he'd ever done anything like that. Of course,
Speaker 1: by that point, the Harvey Weinstein name was as muddy
Speaker 1: as name's get. Armand refused to do as he asked. Um,
Speaker 1: But that was the time when it was easy to
Speaker 1: say that Harvey Weinstein because at that point he was
Speaker 1: on his way down exactly, which is nothing against Armand
Speaker 1: maybe he would have done the right thing if he'd
Speaker 1: known something was wrong in the moment. I don't know
Speaker 1: the guy, but what is important is that for more
Speaker 1: than thirty thirty years, almost everyone that Harvey Weinstein asked
Speaker 1: to keep his secret was happy to help him do it.
Speaker 1: David J. Pecker is the CEO of American Media, Inc.
Speaker 1: They are you know, okay, what does that mean? You're
Speaker 1: with him? I'm familiar that he's also on Trump's team
Speaker 1: and has some friends in Saudi Arabia. He's got friends
Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabbi. He's on Trump's team, and he is
Speaker 1: American Media, Inc. Is the company that's responsible for a
Speaker 1: number of magazines, including the National Inquirer, which it just
Speaker 1: so happens that the studio we're in has a lot
Speaker 1: of issues of The Inquirer, and the one I'm looking
Speaker 1: at right now, the big title of the story is
Speaker 1: Exhumed John Bennet's Body. Now, so that's they're classy people
Speaker 1: to the Inquirer. Yeah. So David J. Pecker is the
Speaker 1: CEO of American Media, Inc. Uh. They own the National Choir,
Speaker 1: Weekly World News, etcetera. Harvey Weinstein and Pecker have been
Speaker 1: good friends for years. Their friendship was so deep that
Speaker 1: Harvey became known as an f o P or friend
Speaker 1: of Pecker, which they're not not great at acronyms. Uh.
Speaker 1: Itsually have been friend of Penis, fread of Pain. I
Speaker 1: mean that's basically what friend of Pecker means, friend of David, Like, like,
Speaker 1: why why white Pecker? Um? Yeah, that's a status he
Speaker 1: apparently shared with President Trump. Uh. And when you are
Speaker 1: a friend of Pecker, you get special treatment from not
Speaker 1: just The Inquirer and the Weekly World News, but the
Speaker 1: whole tabloid industry. Um. So I'll be listing all the
Speaker 1: sources for this this podcast on our website, this info
Speaker 1: right now, comes from a New York Times article entitled
Speaker 1: Weinstein's complicity machine. Um quote. American media was known to
Speaker 1: sometimes help out allies and trouble with a strategy known
Speaker 1: in tabloid newsrooms as catch and kill, acquiring exclusive rights
Speaker 1: to damaging stories and then not publishing them. So basically
Speaker 1: like this is the first in the clearest case of
Speaker 1: another person involved who's definitely a bastard, because fucking pecker.
Speaker 1: That's not helping Harvey for money. It's not helping him
Speaker 1: because you're afraid he'll funk up your career. It's helping
Speaker 1: him because he's your buddy and you want him to
Speaker 1: keep his sexual assaults under wrap. Rodan Pharaoh and The
Speaker 1: New Yorker laid out a very active relationship between the
Speaker 1: Inquirer and Weinstein. He talked to a woman named Elizabeth Avalon,
Speaker 1: who is the former wife of Robert Rodriguez. Rodriguez left
Speaker 1: her for Rose McGowan. UM, So obviously there's understandable kind
Speaker 1: of bad blood between the two ladies. Uh. Rose claims
Speaker 1: that Harvey Weinstein raped her in his hotel room during
Speaker 1: the Sundance Festival. UM and inquires reporter figured Evalon might
Speaker 1: have some dirt on Rose McGowan, and of course it
Speaker 1: was his job as an inquiry reporter to dig up
Speaker 1: dirt on anyone accusing anything of Harvey Weinstein to try
Speaker 1: to discredit them. So he started calling Avalon. He called
Speaker 1: her over and over and over again. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: he started reaching out to people she knew, like friends
Speaker 1: and family, um, just kind of harassing them until she
Speaker 1: agreed for an interview. So Avalanne sits down for an
Speaker 1: interview with this reporter and he repeatedly pushes her to
Speaker 1: say bad things about Rose McGowan. Um. She wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure that the call was off the record and
Speaker 1: only for deep background, and the reporters said that it was,
Speaker 1: but he recorded the whole thing and afterwards he handed
Speaker 1: according to a mayor Can Media's chief content officer, Dylan Howard,
Speaker 1: who emailed it to Harvey Weinstein and said, quote, I
Speaker 1: have something all caps amazing. Eventually she laid into Rose
Speaker 1: pretty hard, which again that's a that's American Media's chief
Speaker 1: content officer talking. Weinstein replied to him, quote, this is
Speaker 1: the killer, especially if my fingerprints are just the letter
Speaker 1: are not on this end? Quote. Howard assured him that
Speaker 1: the fingerprints weren't on it and said, this conversation is
Speaker 1: all caps recorded. Okay, I'm sorry he wrote just a
Speaker 1: letter R. Yeah, my fingerprints are not on this. That's
Speaker 1: more yet the whole word fingerprints and but you don't
Speaker 1: have time for the R. That's stupid. I know. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to hate the man. Um Howard's
Speaker 1: definitely culpable here um Like, that's that's gross behavior and
Speaker 1: for what it's worth, Like Avalon during the call said
Speaker 1: some not pleasant things about Rose McGowan because understandably, like
Speaker 1: they had, they had a history. She has expressed a
Speaker 1: lot of regret about it and is obviously as solidarity
Speaker 1: for her for the whole being horribly abused by Harvey
Speaker 1: Weinstein thing. So yeah, that's that's like, that's sucked up
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons, because you're not just trying
Speaker 1: to bury the accusations of a woman who was harmed.
Speaker 1: You're like playing on somebody's heartbreak and pain in order
Speaker 1: to like it's just it's almost impossible to like look
Speaker 1: at something like a sexual assault and be like how
Speaker 1: can I make this worse? But use a bunch of
Speaker 1: women and dry them out, and then I hope it
Speaker 1: helps protect a man who yeah trash. Yeah, it's almost
Speaker 1: like a work of art in terms of being shitty
Speaker 1: people like it took a lot of garbage all coming
Speaker 1: together to make this landfill. So yeah, Pecker and Howard
Speaker 1: are both pieces of crap, as well as the reporter
Speaker 1: who did that hatchet job. I feel like that's that's
Speaker 1: also a bad guy. They're gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: terrible reporters in this story. But so we're already up
Speaker 1: to at least three or four other complicit people. Plus
Speaker 1: was this reporter someone who worked for like Inquiry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was an Inquirer reporter? Would she ever talk to
Speaker 1: an inquire reporter? Because he kept calling her family and friends.
Speaker 1: So she finally was like, fine, talk if you won't
Speaker 1: talk to anyone else, I will talk to you like that.
Speaker 1: That's that's like where it got um. So yeah, there
Speaker 1: there are just when we're talking about just the press,
Speaker 1: there are dozens of people implicated in keeping Harvey's secrets.
Speaker 1: And we're going to get into another one of those
Speaker 1: stories in a minute, but right now, we gotta sell
Speaker 1: some stuff. You like stuff right hugely. You got wallets
Speaker 1: and money, anyway, go grab some money, Grab as much
Speaker 1: money as you can and then tune into these ads.
Speaker 1: We're back and we are talking about Harvey Weinstein, or
Speaker 1: rather the people who enabled him to do the things
Speaker 1: that he did. All of the other bastards and the
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein story. We just talked about two guys, Pecker
Speaker 1: and Howard, who both ran the company that owned the
Speaker 1: National Inquirer, and the Inquirer essentially helped dick up dirt
Speaker 1: on Weinstein's accusers. Now we're gonna talk about another story
Speaker 1: in that vein. UM. In two thousand fourteen, Emily Nestor
Speaker 1: was working as a temporary employee for the Weinstein Company.
Speaker 1: She'd been there a day when Weinstein promised to help
Speaker 1: her career if she fucked him. Um. Well, yeah, the
Speaker 1: old classic I'll help your career if you fuck me.
Speaker 1: I mean he waited a good three or four hours,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of restraint for Rvy Weinstein. Uh.
Speaker 1: She turned him down. Um, and then he made her
Speaker 1: keep turning him down for more than an hour. Um.
Speaker 1: Emily complained to her coworkers and they did the right thing.
Speaker 1: They reported it to management in a formal complaint thing.
Speaker 1: And this is the company he owned. Just means nothing. Really, well,
Speaker 1: there's other people. It's a big company, like there are
Speaker 1: other people and as well, we'll get into there was
Speaker 1: some resistance from within the corporates structure to Harvey, like
Speaker 1: the company bore his name, but he was not in
Speaker 1: absolutely was too big a company to be an absolute
Speaker 1: control of UM, although obviously he had a lot of power. Anyway,
Speaker 1: other people reported a formal complaint. Thing is made, and
Speaker 1: eventually the matter does get to Harvey. Uh. He invited
Speaker 1: Nestor to breakfast right after that, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: quote from another Running Pharaoh New Yorker article here. Throughout
Speaker 1: the breakfast, she said, Weinstein interrupted their conversation to yell
Speaker 1: into his cell phone and raged over a spat that
Speaker 1: Amy Adams, a star in the Weinstein movie Big Eyes,
Speaker 1: was having in the press. Afterward, Weinstein told Nestor to
Speaker 1: keep an eye in the news cycle, which he promised
Speaker 1: would be spun in his favor. Later in the day,
Speaker 1: there were indeed negative news items about his opponents, and
Speaker 1: Weinstein stopped by Nestor's desk to be sure she'd seen them.
Speaker 1: By that point, Nestor recalled, I was very afraid of him,
Speaker 1: and I knew how well connected he was and how
Speaker 1: if I pissed him off then I could never have
Speaker 1: a career in that industry. That's heartbreaking. Well, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking, And I wonder how knowledgeable the people who
Speaker 1: are so like I feel like a guy like Howard,
Speaker 1: who owns American or who who's the CEO of American Media,
Speaker 1: has to know with this because because obviously if he's
Speaker 1: helping his buddy out with this, he's used his organs
Speaker 1: of press for the same sort of purposes. He knows
Speaker 1: what this looks like on a human level, and he
Speaker 1: probably gets off on the power of that too. I
Speaker 1: don't know about a guy like Howard who directs the
Speaker 1: reporter to like find the dirt. I don't know about
Speaker 1: the reporter like if they really like maybe you don't
Speaker 1: let yourself think about it, like what you're up. I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's some level of disassociation from what you're really
Speaker 1: doing in order to get your job done. But even so, like,
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine working a job like that. It just
Speaker 1: seems like so like you would be dead on the inside,
Speaker 1: so crushing to know that what you're doing, you're interviewing
Speaker 1: someone not even for an article. You're viewing someone so
Speaker 1: that some like greasy fuck in a suit can exercise
Speaker 1: his power over what twenty year old woman who has
Speaker 1: a one billionth of the wealth that he has, So
Speaker 1: this guy can feel powerful in front of her, Like
Speaker 1: that's that's what you're putting in eight hour days for?
Speaker 1: Is so some dirt bag you've never met can feel powerful?
Speaker 1: Like how do you do that? And like is that
Speaker 1: when it comes to like what would be justice is
Speaker 1: the fact that you had to be that guy and
Speaker 1: probably have to drink being that guy away every night
Speaker 1: of your life. Is that punishment? I don't know, I
Speaker 1: wonder or I don't know. Maybe they just hire like
Speaker 1: a group of like sociopaths who don't feel empathy to
Speaker 1: work for them. Like in the interview, they just ask
Speaker 1: you a series of questions to kind of nail down
Speaker 1: the type of person you are and if you're willing
Speaker 1: to do the work that needs to be done to
Speaker 1: get the information that needs to be gone. Well, and
Speaker 1: as I look at this National Enquirer article in front
Speaker 1: of me, one of the other article titles is I'm
Speaker 1: not your real father. Harry Prince Charles drops a wedding bombs. Actually,
Speaker 1: if you look deep into that, there are some points
Speaker 1: they make that are quite convincing. So I mean it
Speaker 1: is one of those things though, like obviously anyone these
Speaker 1: these people were calling them reporters, but you should put
Speaker 1: quotation marks around the word reporter because they work for
Speaker 1: the Inquirer. But like, I don't know, maybe maybe part
Speaker 1: of the mistake is with me and feeling like the
Speaker 1: fucking ship in these rags was ever kind of lighthearted,
Speaker 1: like you think about like, oh, bat boy, you know
Speaker 1: they're talking about cookie fun like it's that was my
Speaker 1: mom's explanation to me as a kid when I would
Speaker 1: see these in the sane things and I'd be like, Mom,
Speaker 1: is Saddam Hussein really going to murder our president? And
Speaker 1: you think, no, it's the National inquir everything, and it
Speaker 1: is a lie. Why does it exist because people think
Speaker 1: it's fun to read? Yeah, now, I guess. Yeah. When
Speaker 1: I was young, they used to have a lot of
Speaker 1: like Catwoman on Yeah, that would be wacky stuff. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: fucking moon Nazis um So Nestor you know, took a
Speaker 1: settlement and left the company and didn't didn't pursue the
Speaker 1: matter any further because she was like, if I make
Speaker 1: a deal about this, then Harvey Weinstein is going to
Speaker 1: drag my name through the mud and the press. Right
Speaker 1: did they make her taken or sign an Ndia? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they did. This story is full of India's.
Speaker 1: Like almost everybody that you're going to run into he
Speaker 1: had a settlement or even who's speaking out now had
Speaker 1: an India at one point, Like I, I guess it's
Speaker 1: one of those things that at this point the Indias
Speaker 1: aren't worth that much. But they clearly held the damn
Speaker 1: together for a while. Yeah. Um So, Weinstein had with
Speaker 1: The New York Times described as a network of friendly journalists,
Speaker 1: gossip columnists, magazine writers, editors and authors that he knew
Speaker 1: would help him by publishing articles that attacked his enemies.
Speaker 1: These aren't are all all through the National Enquirer. They're
Speaker 1: not all through Howard Like he he's he's a high
Speaker 1: placed guy in the film industry. So he's dealing with
Speaker 1: press all the time because that's an important part of
Speaker 1: his legitimate job, is like building up interest and whatnot
Speaker 1: in the projects he's working on. Um So, he just
Speaker 1: knew a lot of people that he could call and
Speaker 1: plant stories to like if he if he wants to
Speaker 1: make someone look bad, whether because they're accusing him or
Speaker 1: because he just wants to punish them. Well, he's got
Speaker 1: probably hundreds of guys on the line, and you have
Speaker 1: to wonder how many of them even knew what they
Speaker 1: were a part of. Like Harvey Weinstein calls you and
Speaker 1: he's got a legitimate scoop about another famous person. Do
Speaker 1: you think, why is he leaking this to me? Or
Speaker 1: do you just run with a story? Hobby's on the line. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Harvey's on the line. He's got another scoop about Rose McGowan.
Speaker 1: People want to read about Rose McGowan doing something like
Speaker 1: maybe yeah, crazy somewhere, but not whatever he's made up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So do you even like? That's where the complicity gets
Speaker 1: hard for me? Like, it's easy in a case like
Speaker 1: the the email exchange between the Inquirer guys that we
Speaker 1: talked about, where it's someone being like, go after this person,
Speaker 1: get dirt on Rose McGowan, bring it back so that
Speaker 1: we have something to hold over her head. That seems clear.
Speaker 1: But a lot of these there's probably people who are
Speaker 1: right now journalists and gossip writers who are just figuring like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, how many of the stories that I
Speaker 1: wrote based on scoops that here is people gave me
Speaker 1: were part of this? And that's why I don't understand.
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, maybe I didn't know about it,
Speaker 1: because I don't in my life, I have not ever
Speaker 1: come across Harvey Weinstein outside of just knowing he's a
Speaker 1: movie producer. But I don't understand how if anyone even
Speaker 1: heard rumors about him being like a creep and a
Speaker 1: rapist and just like overall power mongering psycho. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to understand like not stepping away
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, I've heard a lot of bad
Speaker 1: things about this person, like maybe I shouldn't be involved.
Speaker 1: And I guess that's what you're talking about. It's like
Speaker 1: because I feel like if you're so far removed from him,
Speaker 1: like you're working at a paper and Harvey calls and
Speaker 1: these whatever, Yeah, yeah, like there's doesn't feel like he
Speaker 1: could affect you that much. I mean, maybe he can,
Speaker 1: but I feel like you should be able to just
Speaker 1: step away and be like, you know what, this is
Speaker 1: not a story I'm gonna work on, but maybe you
Speaker 1: don't like He's not coming to you saying like, hey,
Speaker 1: I need to make this lady look bad. Here's here's
Speaker 1: some dirt on her. He's saying like, hey, you want
Speaker 1: a story, and as yeah, you're always like that's your job.
Speaker 1: You're always short on stuff to write about. You're always
Speaker 1: looking for the next thing to cover. This well connected
Speaker 1: guy comes to you with a story. But even if
Speaker 1: you've heard the rumors, I mean, but what are the
Speaker 1: rumors you're hearing, they're they're probably not Harvey Weinstein's a rapist,
Speaker 1: Especially if you're a male reporter, That's probably not what
Speaker 1: you're hearing. You're hearing Harvey Weinstein's a womanizer. Harvey Weinstein's
Speaker 1: an asshole with a temper. Maybe I'm just maybe I
Speaker 1: just hate men. So I'm just out here. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to help anybody. Well, this story, this, this is
Speaker 1: not a story that will increase your faith in men
Speaker 1: or your faith in journalists. Um. So Weinstein owned a
Speaker 1: publishing house. Uh. And one of the things you run
Speaker 1: across in just sort of the stories of how he
Speaker 1: would manipulate people is he offered and in some cases
Speaker 1: gave shiploads of people book deals like that was a
Speaker 1: common way if you were a reporter that he really
Speaker 1: wanted to get to do some work for him, and
Speaker 1: the work that was definitely going to be questionable. This
Speaker 1: is how he would get over your professional scruples or
Speaker 1: over your reticence to work with him. So, like, it's
Speaker 1: one thing for Harvey to give you a call, uh
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, I got this story about so
Speaker 1: and so you maybe you write it. And it's another
Speaker 1: thing for him to be like, I want you to
Speaker 1: help me gather dirt on this person, which is what
Speaker 1: happened to a New York Daily News columnist named A. J.
Speaker 1: Bens Up. So Weinstein invited Ben's out to dinner in
Speaker 1: West Hollywood and told him, in short, that he needed
Speaker 1: help in keeping his mistress secret when he divorced his wife.
Speaker 1: Benza was on board for this and recalled to The
Speaker 1: New York Times that Harvey had said, quote, I could
Speaker 1: supply your pr or that he said to Harvey. So
Speaker 1: this is Harvey's like, Hey, I've got I'm divorcing my wife,
Speaker 1: but it's not set up yet. I've got a mistress.
Speaker 1: I need to keep this ship on the down low.
Speaker 1: And A J. Benza says to him I could supply
Speaker 1: your pr girls with a lot of gossip, a lot
Speaker 1: of stories, and if people come at them with the
Speaker 1: Harvey's having an affair story, they can barter. Mr Benza says,
Speaker 1: Weinstein replied a J it's got to be good stories,
Speaker 1: and a J said, don't you worry about it? So
Speaker 1: that's like, that's how these conversations are apparently, so they're
Speaker 1: basically like, hey, instead of publishing this, why don't you
Speaker 1: look at this here? Wow? So it's a lot of like,
Speaker 1: is red herring the correct Yeah? Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: the correct term. So it's a lot of yeah. And
Speaker 1: so he's finding people who are well connected because like
Speaker 1: a guy like Benza, he knows what people in the
Speaker 1: daily news, and he probably his friends at other rags
Speaker 1: of similar so he knows, oh, this guy's working in
Speaker 1: a story that might implicate Weinstein in an affair or
Speaker 1: some other bad behavior. What if I promised to give
Speaker 1: him two or three stories about somebody else, Like that's
Speaker 1: the That's what Ben's is offering to do for Weinstein,
Speaker 1: and that's how a lot of this gets done. Now.
Speaker 1: Benza claims he didn't know about any of the rape
Speaker 1: backs accusations or the sexual assaults, and that that's possible. Um,
Speaker 1: most of the people in this story who enabled Weinstein
Speaker 1: in one way or the other are folks like Ben's
Speaker 1: that they're people whose defense to moral culpability is that
Speaker 1: they just thought Harvey Weinstein was a gross person, not
Speaker 1: a rapist. So and Ben's again, there was like a
Speaker 1: book deal on the line, like that was that was
Speaker 1: what Harvey was giving him, is he was like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get you like a fucking book out of this,
Speaker 1: which I can say when I think about like what
Speaker 1: I would do in his situation, it's easy to say, like, no,
Speaker 1: of course I wouldn't take that deal. But back before
Speaker 1: I'd had a book deal, like part of me wonders,
Speaker 1: if I just thought this guy was trying to keep
Speaker 1: his affair and they're under wraps, maybe you do it.
Speaker 1: Maybe you do it and you cringe and you tell
Speaker 1: yourself that getting the book out will make it okay
Speaker 1: because you've got something to say or what it would
Speaker 1: always be this achiness in the back of your mind
Speaker 1: thinking you didn't fully get it from your own worth. No,
Speaker 1: And that's that's what I wonder with. And we'll talk
Speaker 1: about ben Affleck and a little bit but about the
Speaker 1: people who legitimately have to credit a lot of their
Speaker 1: fame and success to Harvey Weinstein and they really is
Speaker 1: like how they because a lot of them knew something
Speaker 1: was up and didn't do it. And again, like is
Speaker 1: there that feeling of like is that why Ben Affleck
Speaker 1: has a terrible back tattoo and drinks too much because
Speaker 1: he knows that he's he's a ben Affleck knows a
Speaker 1: lot of things that are slowly killing him. Man. That
Speaker 1: actually does make him a great candidate to play Batman
Speaker 1: Dark Pass. Yeah, he might be the most appropriate casting
Speaker 1: of Batman that we could have gotten poor Benny. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well no, not not in any way, shape or form. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: now that we've talked about A. J. Benza, So yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know like what you're viewing on Benza's moral
Speaker 1: culpability here, Like is that how gross is that? If
Speaker 1: if he really just thought he was helping a man
Speaker 1: hide an affair. I mean that's something I would not
Speaker 1: be interested in. So it's hard for me to separate
Speaker 1: my own like dislike of that kind of situation from him.
Speaker 1: So that that's my problem, is like taking this book deal.
Speaker 1: You know why you got that book deal. It's not
Speaker 1: because you're the like someone wanted you because you're so
Speaker 1: great at yeah you have this story or whatever. It's
Speaker 1: because you helped a man cover up an affair. Like
Speaker 1: that doesn't feel right to me, doesn't sit right. Okay,
Speaker 1: what do you have any student loans? No? Okay? Did
Speaker 1: you ever at some point was that like a thing
Speaker 1: that was that like a cross you had to bear? No?
Speaker 1: I parents do well for themselves. Okay, sorry, I didn't
Speaker 1: mean to get super I had a bunch of student
Speaker 1: loans that were cleared off when I got a book deal. Um,
Speaker 1: And so it was one of those things there was
Speaker 1: like a there was obviously like a creative like that's
Speaker 1: something I always wanted to have a book in the library.
Speaker 1: That was a huge thing for me from like a kid.
Speaker 1: But it was also like I can get under the
Speaker 1: weight of this crushing debt in one fell swoop if
Speaker 1: I get someone to buy my book. I don't know
Speaker 1: that Benza had something like that going on, but I
Speaker 1: can see how that would be almost impossible to When
Speaker 1: you put it that way, it's like, my that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like it's hard for me to put
Speaker 1: myself in that person's position. So immediately I have this disdain,
Speaker 1: like why would you do that? But of course I
Speaker 1: don't know where that person's background is. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he had a mother in the hospital. I don't
Speaker 1: know anything about who he had. Maybe he had to
Speaker 1: pay medical bills for someone or for himself, like I
Speaker 1: I can say, I can say in a J benses defense,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if he actually knew about the
Speaker 1: Maybe he knew more than he says he did, but
Speaker 1: if he didn't know about the assaults in the rapes,
Speaker 1: I can imagine myself being in a situation where I
Speaker 1: would help a creepy guy cover up an affair for
Speaker 1: enough money to pay for my romantic partner to get
Speaker 1: healthcare or whatever kind of ship, like deal with some
Speaker 1: crippling Like I want to condemn him and like, to
Speaker 1: an extent, you got it. Because Harvey Weinstein raped, does
Speaker 1: his people? Probably um problem. It's like in the long run, though,
Speaker 1: things that came out would weigh heavy on him, if
Speaker 1: it must. He feels empathy, Yeah, he is. He does
Speaker 1: work for the New York Daily News, so maybe he's
Speaker 1: had the empathy burned out of him by this point. Um,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Yeah, I like I said, I
Speaker 1: got into this one, and you just condemn a whole
Speaker 1: list of people, and it's it's hard with almost every
Speaker 1: one of these, which brings me organically to Harvey Weinstein's
Speaker 1: co workers at the Weinstein Company, or I should say employees. Um.
Speaker 1: So in two thousand four, Lucia Stoler now Lucia Evans. Uh,
Speaker 1: no relation to does she change her name or she
Speaker 1: just get married. She got married. I'm gonna call all
Speaker 1: her Lucia Evans just because that's what she goes by
Speaker 1: now less confusing. She met Harvey Weinstein at a club
Speaker 1: when she was a sophomore in college. Uh. He called
Speaker 1: her in the middle of the night and suggested that
Speaker 1: she meet him in his office to talk about her career.
Speaker 1: She did the very savvy smart thing and said she
Speaker 1: only did readings during the day and for a casting director. Right,
Speaker 1: So she's she's making all her round moves at this point.
Speaker 1: So Harvey has his assistant call her and set up
Speaker 1: a daytime meeting, first with Weinstein and then with a
Speaker 1: female casting director who worked for him. So this assistant colleges. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a meeting. You're gonna come and you're
Speaker 1: gonna talk to Harvey, and then you're going to talk
Speaker 1: to some so and so this lady who was a
Speaker 1: casting director, which seems legitimate. Um, and that's what she
Speaker 1: was like, Oh a woman, Great, I feel safe. Like
Speaker 1: you're not just meeting with Harvey. This isn't. He wants
Speaker 1: you privately in his room, like he's going to talk
Speaker 1: to you, probably to let you know how the process works.
Speaker 1: And then he's gonna put you with a casting director
Speaker 1: who's a lady. This all feels legit. I feel so nervous.
Speaker 1: So she arrives at the meeting and it's just Harvey
Speaker 1: Weinstein alone in a room full of exercise equipment and
Speaker 1: take out food boxes, which I'm assuming didn't smell great. Um,
Speaker 1: just looking at Harvey Weinstein the world you just eat
Speaker 1: and then maybe work out, but maybe it's just there
Speaker 1: to look out, so you think at some point you'll
Speaker 1: work out. I feel like most of that equipment never
Speaker 1: got used. Yeah, but that's the kind of thing you
Speaker 1: can do when you're that rich. In addition to having
Speaker 1: people cover up your solitary bring the exercise bike into
Speaker 1: the meeting room. I'm gonna I'm gonna get in shape.
Speaker 1: Fucking Harvey Weinstein go on a jog, asshole. So she
Speaker 1: gets into this creepy room, and Weinstein immediately starts alternating
Speaker 1: between praising and insulting her. He'll make comments like, you know,
Speaker 1: you'd be great for this role if you'd lose some weight,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. So he's like he's doing the dropping,
Speaker 1: the negging, or whatever you call it. He told her
Speaker 1: that he had two projects in mind for her, and
Speaker 1: then he forced her to give him oral sex, overpowering
Speaker 1: her physically. When she told him to stop, Harvey acted
Speaker 1: like the encounter was no big deal. Evans wondered how
Speaker 1: was other employees could not know what was going on.
Speaker 1: After that meeting, she did meet with a female casting
Speaker 1: director who center scripts and watched her do a read
Speaker 1: several weeks later. Evans doesn't think the casting director was
Speaker 1: in on it, but it's hard to say. Um so, yeah,
Speaker 1: like that's one of those things like she might not
Speaker 1: have She might have been helping him do this without
Speaker 1: even knowing it, because she wasn't in that initial meeting.
Speaker 1: She was just being used. Essentially, as cover and he
Speaker 1: had her do the work, got the casting director. That's
Speaker 1: too hard to believe that they have no sense of
Speaker 1: what's going on, you know, because when people exit and
Speaker 1: look frazzled, like yeah, and there must have been people
Speaker 1: who saw her. And that's why I assume she says
Speaker 1: she can't imagine they didn't know what was going on,
Speaker 1: because she probably walked out of that room horrified and
Speaker 1: traumatized and like people wouldn't meet her eye. But it's
Speaker 1: one of those the sheer weight of encounters like this,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like there might have been hundreds over
Speaker 1: the time that he was you know, over the twenty
Speaker 1: or thirty years. And I'll say this from everything I
Speaker 1: can read, there's a couple of things you find out.
Speaker 1: Number one, a good number of them would have been consensual.
Speaker 1: You know. Obviously there's the fund up power dynam Meca.
Speaker 1: He's got a bunch of money and he holds the
Speaker 1: key for to your career. But he didn't have to
Speaker 1: physically force them. They were they There were a lot
Speaker 1: of them where people who are like, Okay, the deal is,
Speaker 1: I fuck you and then I get a part in
Speaker 1: the movie. And there are people who were down for that.
Speaker 1: Um So that happened. I think a lot of this
Speaker 1: would be telling yourself that that's what's happened in order
Speaker 1: to feel better about it. But you work for Harvey,
Speaker 1: you don't say, oh, he's assaulting another woman. You say,
Speaker 1: that's Harvey Weinstein. He's sleeping with somebody else and she's
Speaker 1: going to get a role doing something. Um So, maybe
Speaker 1: that's part of what was going on in their head.
Speaker 1: But I do feel like some of these women clearly
Speaker 1: came out looking trauma, died a little. Yeah, it's it's rough,
Speaker 1: and it's another one of the like it obviously is
Speaker 1: messed up, like asking random people to meet you in
Speaker 1: hotel rooms and apartments, But people who were just legitimate
Speaker 1: business partners of Harvey's who condemn him and stuff right
Speaker 1: now now also say like, that's what he did with everybody,
Speaker 1: Like if you were working with Harvey, you would meet
Speaker 1: with him. It ran the hours of the night in
Speaker 1: his hotel or his apartment. That was just like the
Speaker 1: style of predator he was. But I'm going to guess
Speaker 1: that evolved naturally out of the kind of person he was,
Speaker 1: rather than he's not just inviting these people because obviously
Speaker 1: he's willing to assault them at the office. But that's
Speaker 1: also camouflages it because then nobody thinks it's weird that
Speaker 1: Harvey has these young actresses meeting him at whatever hotel,
Speaker 1: because everybody meets him at the hotel. Um, there's not
Speaker 1: too much suspicion. There's not too much suspicion. Although again,
Speaker 1: like it happened so often that at some point they
Speaker 1: had to know they were lying to themselves a little bit.
Speaker 1: And uh, speaking of lying to yourselves a little bit,
Speaker 1: it's time to break for ads. Uh. And So rather
Speaker 1: than ranting about the evils of money, which is really
Speaker 1: easy to do on a podcast about Harvey Weinstein, a
Speaker 1: man who bought his way into raping dozens of people,
Speaker 1: I would like to sell you, guys and cool products,
Speaker 1: so smooth, Okay. So we just talked about how Lucia
Speaker 1: Evans met him in two thousand four. Uh, and he
Speaker 1: tricked her into meeting her alone in a conference room
Speaker 1: and then forced her to give him oral sex. Uh.
Speaker 1: And we're kind of wondering about complicity because there was
Speaker 1: part of why she felt safe and going there as
Speaker 1: a female casting director was promised to be there. So
Speaker 1: it's hard to say if that casting director knew what
Speaker 1: was going on. Evans doesn't think she did. Um, but
Speaker 1: it's definite that some of his assistance. Weinstein's assistants were
Speaker 1: complicit and knew more or less what was going on.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote here from the New York Times article
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein's complicity machine. Quote some low level assistance were
Speaker 1: pulled in. They compiled bibles that included hints on facilitating
Speaker 1: encounters with women, and were required to procure his penile
Speaker 1: injections for rectile dysfunction. End quote. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did
Speaker 1: these assistants know Harvey was a rapist? It's hard to say. Uh.
Speaker 1: Most of the Weinstein company people who have talked will
Speaker 1: insist that they just thought Harvey was an abusive creep
Speaker 1: and not a sex predator. A group of like thirty
Speaker 1: of them sent a statement into The New Yorker, which
Speaker 1: I'm going to read now. We all knew that we
Speaker 1: were working for a man with an infamous temper. We
Speaker 1: did not know that we were working for a serial
Speaker 1: sexual predator. We knew that our boss could be manipulative,
Speaker 1: We did not know that he used his power to
Speaker 1: systematically assault in silence. Women. We had an idea that
Speaker 1: he was a womanizer who had extra marital affairs. We
Speaker 1: did not know he was a violent aggressor or an
Speaker 1: alleged rapist. So that's kind of their defense to moral culpability.
Speaker 1: It's again, it's the same as benz As. I knew
Speaker 1: he was a piece of ship. I didn't think he
Speaker 1: was raping women, right, because I guess once that door closes,
Speaker 1: your position in the company doesn't really allow you to
Speaker 1: know too much more. But still, it's just God, I
Speaker 1: would lose my mind if I was one of those
Speaker 1: assistants today. Well, and some of them definitely knew what
Speaker 1: was going on behind that closed door. There is a
Speaker 1: story in a New Yorker article by Dana Goodyear that
Speaker 1: makes me heavily doubt that they weren't sure what was
Speaker 1: going on. Um. It's from a woman who went to
Speaker 1: work at the Weinstein Company and applied for a position
Speaker 1: that would have put her very close to Harvey. I
Speaker 1: think she was going to be one of his assistants
Speaker 1: if she did this job. Um. And she recalled to
Speaker 1: The New Yorker that a female executive took her aside
Speaker 1: and said that she was too pretty to work for
Speaker 1: Weinstein because she would embarrass him. Um, she continued to
Speaker 1: push for the job, and so a former Weinstein assistant
Speaker 1: took her to lunch and said, quote, do not take
Speaker 1: this job. You will see things you will never be
Speaker 1: able to unsee, and you will do things you will
Speaker 1: never forgive yourself for. Wait, so what's she kind of
Speaker 1: being like, you're too pretty for him, You'll embarrass him.
Speaker 1: To just be like that was like an excuse to
Speaker 1: be like just don't Yeah, that was the executive trying
Speaker 1: to try to nicely keep her away from this job.
Speaker 1: And then when that didn't work, they were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: get the lady who had the job and have her
Speaker 1: be like don't pretty, he will come for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That is terrifying. So it's clear from that that the
Speaker 1: people who worked with Harvey both knew he was a
Speaker 1: predator and and we're aware enough of how dangerous he
Speaker 1: was that they would protect people when they could, or
Speaker 1: if they if they liked you and knew you, they
Speaker 1: would try to keep you away from him. And that
Speaker 1: I mean, it's nice that this lady was saved from
Speaker 1: a bad situation, but it's kind of damning for a
Speaker 1: lot of these people on a moral level, because then
Speaker 1: they weren't unsure of what was happening mine. You don't
Speaker 1: warn someone away from a job like that unless you know, oh,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get fucking assaulted if you get close to
Speaker 1: That is the word that they really that's the unfortunate thing.
Speaker 1: I wish they'd use that language instead of trying to like, yeah,
Speaker 1: protect this situation. Just be like, honey, to take this job,
Speaker 1: he will try and have sex with you. And that
Speaker 1: is that not he will try. He will find a
Speaker 1: way to have sex with you if any means holding
Speaker 1: you down. That's what he does. We all know it,
Speaker 1: and we still work here. Please don't judge it. Which
Speaker 1: is that's a harder conversation to say, Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people in this story who I have to
Speaker 1: assume have spent the last twenty years drinking themselves to sleep.
Speaker 1: In his first big article on Weinstein running, Pharaoh noted
Speaker 1: that sixteen former and current executives and assistants who had
Speaker 1: worked with or for Weinstein had told him about quote
Speaker 1: unwanted sexual advances and touching unquote that they'd witnessed at work.
Speaker 1: So again, that's not closed door stuff. That's people telling
Speaker 1: a journalist like I saw him touch a lady and
Speaker 1: she wasn't having it. She did not want it. It
Speaker 1: was clearly not okay. That number included employees who were
Speaker 1: quote enlisted in a subterfuge to make the victims feel safe. Uh.
Speaker 1: These are referred to and a lot of the reporting
Speaker 1: as honey pots, which is like a spy term for like,
Speaker 1: I feel like that this is running Pharaoh is great,
Speaker 1: U incredible journalism deserves the Pulitzer and all that. I
Speaker 1: feel like honeypot is the wrong term for this, because
Speaker 1: that's the term you use for like a sexy lady
Speaker 1: spy and she like seduces the guy to get him exactly.
Speaker 1: And these the women that Harvey uses to lure other
Speaker 1: women into feeling safe of getting close to heart honeypots. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know what terms just like emotional manipulation using women.
Speaker 1: It's camouflage, it's rapist camouflage, Like, look, you can trust
Speaker 1: another one. There's another lady in here. Nothing's bad has
Speaker 1: ever happened in a room with two ladies in a
Speaker 1: creepy man. Uh. Several female employees, assistants, and executives would
Speaker 1: sometimes join meetings with Weinstein and a woman he was
Speaker 1: interested in. Uh, and then at some point midway through
Speaker 1: the meeting, Weinstein would dismiss them and they would all
Speaker 1: leave him alone with his victim. One female executive explained quote,
Speaker 1: there was a large volume of these types of meetings
Speaker 1: that Harvey would have with aspiring actresses and models. He
Speaker 1: would have them late at night, usually at hotel bars
Speaker 1: or in hotel rooms, and in order to make these
Speaker 1: women feel more comfortable, he would ask a female executive
Speaker 1: or assistant to start these meetings with him. So, um,
Speaker 1: that's so at one point they would just excuse themselves, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: or Harvey would make it clear that it was time
Speaker 1: for them to excuse themselves, and then they'd all leave. Um.
Speaker 1: Which that's culpability right there. Your party to a crime. Um.
Speaker 1: Not that I think any of these people ever gonna
Speaker 1: get charged, but if they were, they deserve it. I guess, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't even feel good, like I wanna even They
Speaker 1: could have just walked behind him and like, oh god, yeah, okay. Um. So,
Speaker 1: the woman who related that last quote insisted that she
Speaker 1: never participated in any of these honeypot meetings, although she
Speaker 1: said she was asked to do so, but at least
Speaker 1: one former employee did come forward to Ron and Pharaoh
Speaker 1: to admit to being used as a honeypot um. She
Speaker 1: reported that in one of these meetings, like she would,
Speaker 1: she was sitting down at a meeting with Weinstein and
Speaker 1: some lady Weinstein wanted to get with uh, and midway
Speaker 1: through the meeting, Weinstein turned to her while he'd been
Speaker 1: flirting with this lady and said, tell her how good
Speaker 1: of a boyfriend. I am so like, that's that's again.
Speaker 1: It's it doesn't sound like these were just we're being camouflage.
Speaker 1: It's we're being camouflage and we're trying to help our
Speaker 1: boss hit on strangers like wingman him. They had, they're
Speaker 1: like wingmanning him into sex crimes. And so again, I
Speaker 1: really want to get judgmental about these people, and maybe
Speaker 1: I should be really like I came into this podcast
Speaker 1: wanting to do that, but they all when you when
Speaker 1: you read anyone who worked with him now their comments
Speaker 1: on it, they all seemed like they were so scared,
Speaker 1: which makes it harder for me to have that kind
Speaker 1: of righteous anger you want in a story about a
Speaker 1: bunch of people enabling a mass rapist. That former employe,
Speaker 1: the one who was a honey pot, said that he's
Speaker 1: been systematically doing this for a very long time. Uh.
Speaker 1: And she said that she often thinks about one time
Speaker 1: when Harvey whispered to himself as far as she could tell,
Speaker 1: after he like shouted at a bunch of people and
Speaker 1: you know, just had one of his like temper tantrums.
Speaker 1: There are things I've done that nobody knows. Like he
Speaker 1: started like shouting and screaming and the like. At the
Speaker 1: end of it was just like repeating that to himself
Speaker 1: if I heard that, that's a rap, that is a rap,
Speaker 1: that's a crazy person. He's saying that after you know
Speaker 1: some of the things he's done, like you're if you
Speaker 1: don't know every word, you know that team self awareness
Speaker 1: that he knows god damn well that he is ruining people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he does not give a fuck, and then that
Speaker 1: that that's saying that to almost be like, don't funk
Speaker 1: with me. I've done things. That's yeah, you well, and
Speaker 1: he there's stories he's threatened to kill people. Um I
Speaker 1: and I. In fact, I think it was Selma Hayak
Speaker 1: who said that he made like some sort of comment
Speaker 1: like I could have you killed during an argument because
Speaker 1: she stood up to him. Yeah, she wouldn't have sex
Speaker 1: with him to make the Freedom Callo movie. Um, And
Speaker 1: he made like a bunch of ridiculous demands and he
Speaker 1: was like, well, okay, well, if we're still going to
Speaker 1: make this, you have to find ten million dollars in
Speaker 1: funding on your own and this, and she like met
Speaker 1: all of these demands and so then he made her
Speaker 1: do a topless sex scene with another woman in the movie,
Speaker 1: which she said she did because she didn't want to
Speaker 1: see everybody else's work put away. Um, because you know,
Speaker 1: but anyway like that, and he would regularly when you
Speaker 1: read uh, any of these articles about him, there's people
Speaker 1: will talk about the threats he would make. And it
Speaker 1: was most more common for him to make threats like
Speaker 1: I can destroy your reputation, I can get like I
Speaker 1: know people, I can get you in the news like
Speaker 1: this will be We've already covered a lot of that.
Speaker 1: So these women who are acting as honeypots, who knew
Speaker 1: that they were luring other women into a dangerous man's embrace,
Speaker 1: were also like terrified of him. And I don't know
Speaker 1: how much that reduces their guilt. It doesn't make it
Speaker 1: fun to judge them. You just have no choice or
Speaker 1: your life will be over. And that's what sucks. It's
Speaker 1: like you can't you can't judge him because because of
Speaker 1: his power, But part of you also kind of wishes
Speaker 1: they did a little bit more to make it clear,
Speaker 1: like they certainly had a chance to be heroes and
Speaker 1: they didn't take it. I don't know how much of
Speaker 1: a villain that makes them, but people got hurt because
Speaker 1: of their actions. One of the women. It's probably worth
Speaker 1: noting that The New York Times interviewed who want Seeing
Speaker 1: had assaulted Ashley math Ow. She was a dancer in
Speaker 1: one of his films, and she said that his aston
Speaker 1: kind of pushed her into a car and told her
Speaker 1: that she was going to have a meeting with Weinstein
Speaker 1: for business purposes in a hotel room, and when she
Speaker 1: got to the room, Weinstein pushed her on a bed
Speaker 1: and masturbated on her um. She has a much colder
Speaker 1: picture of how all of the people around him acted.
Speaker 1: Let's think I feel like they're so disassociated. Yeah. She
Speaker 1: says that she was crying and the his female assistant
Speaker 1: wouldn't even acknowledge her um and that it all seemed
Speaker 1: like a well oiled machine. So when you dark, yeah,
Speaker 1: and again when you when you listen to these women
Speaker 1: are in a lot of them women, But like any
Speaker 1: of the people who worked with him, they all point
Speaker 1: out how scared they all were. But then you talk
Speaker 1: about the experiences the women that heart be assaulted, who
Speaker 1: were on the other end of this machine that he constructed,
Speaker 1: and it seemed to him and just a bunch of
Speaker 1: people following orders coldly, not willing to look you in
Speaker 1: the eye, which again makes me think, yeah, and I'm
Speaker 1: too sympathetic for these people willing to do this. Um,
Speaker 1: that's so evil to not even acknowledge a woman crying
Speaker 1: that you clearly put in that situation is God, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I deserve nothing. That's so terrible. And again you might
Speaker 1: come back around here with I'm about to talk to you.
Speaker 1: Because some of Weinstein's assistants did resist. Michelle Franklin confronted
Speaker 1: Weinstein about his behavior, He told her that her opinion
Speaker 1: didn't count, and he fired her. It seems like most
Speaker 1: of the employees who went along with Harvey's behavior did
Speaker 1: so out of a mix of a need and a
Speaker 1: desire for money. And I feared that he could destroy
Speaker 1: their career forever. A good case study in this is
Speaker 1: an assistant named send Deep with a Hall. Part of
Speaker 1: her job was to keep him supplied with the injectable
Speaker 1: erection drugs cabbaget and i'll prostadil so you can just
Speaker 1: shoot up real quick. You got to shoot him. Most
Speaker 1: of these I think you have to shoot into yours.
Speaker 1: I know that some of them. I've talked to a
Speaker 1: lot of porn industry people who will use Trimex, which
Speaker 1: is a jail that you shoot right into your dick,
Speaker 1: because it's like it's it's like guaranteed, like if you
Speaker 1: have to perform for a camera, like it'll make it happen.
Speaker 1: And if I'm remembering correctly, one of his initial defenses
Speaker 1: to why he couldn't have raped some of these women
Speaker 1: as that like, well, I'm not in good health. It's
Speaker 1: I can't even get irrect. I was like, you people
Speaker 1: paying you to shoot your different Yeah. So anyway, getting
Speaker 1: Harvey his dick drugs was part of Ms. Ro Hall's
Speaker 1: unofficial duties, and when she talked to The New York Times,
Speaker 1: Mr Hall recalled that Harvey had an in depth knowledge
Speaker 1: of her personal life. He'd regularly bring up her student loans.
Speaker 1: He mentioned that he knew her younger sister where she
Speaker 1: went to school and that he could have her kicked
Speaker 1: out of that school. Uh, and he offered her an
Speaker 1: extra five dollars every time she's applied him with his
Speaker 1: erection drugs. So he really he had info on everybody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's it's entirely possible. Mr ra Hall was I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know how the time frames link up,
Speaker 1: but she would have been one of these women, probably
Speaker 1: not looking in the eyes of another woman who Harvey
Speaker 1: had just assaulted. Does the fact that she thought, like
Speaker 1: her sister might get kicked out of school or Harvey
Speaker 1: could funk up her financial life like see, And then
Speaker 1: I come back around to like there are obviously more victims.
Speaker 1: I guess the question is like how much? How bad
Speaker 1: are they too? That's the thing is they're victims of
Speaker 1: the industry of like a system that is uncontrollable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's part of Weinstein's evil was building a machine
Speaker 1: to help him do this. Rather than like Cosby, there
Speaker 1: were some people who sort of helped keep it under wraps,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't anything like this, like for the most
Speaker 1: part it was one guy and some fucking rufi's assaulting
Speaker 1: a ton of women. Weinstein built an engine, but also
Speaker 1: the pieces of that engine are culpable. Yeah, it feels
Speaker 1: like almost every part of that engine could have fallen
Speaker 1: apart at any point though, because people were probably losing
Speaker 1: their mind. Yeah, And Mr Hall says that, like part
Speaker 1: of her job was to clean semen stains off his couch,
Speaker 1: and he would grope her constantly. Like while she would
Speaker 1: do pretty much anything, she's i think suing him now,
Speaker 1: so she's clearly a victim, but like she's also helping this, Like,
Speaker 1: what do you that's so crazy to me. Yeah, it's fucked.
Speaker 1: It's totally fucked. Anyone ever touched me in the workplace.
Speaker 1: And make it very clear right now, all my coworkers
Speaker 1: are listening, I will burn this place to the ground.
Speaker 1: That's crazy to me. Cleaning cement that is, oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and think about like I'm trying not to delve too
Speaker 1: much into Harvey's mind in this, because funk that guy.
Speaker 1: But like the kind of entitlement it is to get
Speaker 1: cum stains on a couch and then make your employee
Speaker 1: clean them. Yeah, Jesus christ Man it's super gross. So
Speaker 1: now that we've entered the realm of really unclear bastards,
Speaker 1: let's swing back to somebody who is clearly a bad
Speaker 1: person in this or a bad group of people. I
Speaker 1: should say, the Manhattan District Attorney's office. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the whole d a's office. Well, everyone who's involved in
Speaker 1: this part. So in the Bill Cosby podcast, we talked
Speaker 1: about how Bill status is America's dad and most beloved entertainer,
Speaker 1: probably contributed to the police I think also in New
Speaker 1: York choosing to ignore early reports of predatory behavior about
Speaker 1: him just because they were like, no, we're not gonna
Speaker 1: go after Bill Casby. Harvey Weinstey is kind of the
Speaker 1: opposite case. Um, He's always had a reputation and as
Speaker 1: being a rich sleeves bag liberals to the police were
Speaker 1: happy to go after him. Um. In March two fifteen,
Speaker 1: Harvey invited Amber Battellana to his office in Tribeca. Ambra
Speaker 1: is a model and Miss Italy finalist who was at
Speaker 1: that point twenty one and looking to start an acting career.
Speaker 1: She met with Weinstein and surprise surprise, claims he lunged
Speaker 1: towards her, grabbed her breasts, demanded to know if they
Speaker 1: were real, and tried to put his hand up her skirt.
Speaker 1: Then he gave her tickets to a Broadway show and
Speaker 1: told her he'd meet her that evening. Uh, which, there
Speaker 1: you go. Um. She was angry like you'd like you'd be,
Speaker 1: and she went immediately to the n y p D.
Speaker 1: And the NYPD was great about it. They said, yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds like a fucking crime. Let's do some police ships.
Speaker 1: So the Special Victim Squad took the case and they
Speaker 1: asked Amber if she'd be willing to do what's called
Speaker 1: a controlled call. That's where the victim calls the suspect
Speaker 1: or whatever and um talks to them on her accorded
Speaker 1: line and the hopes that they'll confess to whatever it
Speaker 1: is that they did. They never got a chance to
Speaker 1: do a controlled call because while she was talking to
Speaker 1: the cops, Weinstein called Ambra. He apologized for his behavior
Speaker 1: and then asked her to meet with him again in
Speaker 1: his hotel room. Um. So the s VU guys convinced
Speaker 1: her to meet with him again, and she was kind
Speaker 1: of freaking out about this. She didn't really want to
Speaker 1: meet with him, but they were able to convince her
Speaker 1: to do it, and they gave her I think two
Speaker 1: cell phones to record the conversations with Um. They met
Speaker 1: at the bar in the Tribeca Grand Hotel and Weinstein
Speaker 1: told her about all the women whose careers he'd helped
Speaker 1: an offered to pay for a dialect coach. Then he
Speaker 1: asked her to go up to his room while he showered.
Speaker 1: She said no one number of times and want up
Speaker 1: like going to the bathroom and talking with the cops,
Speaker 1: and they convinced her to go up with him. Um
Speaker 1: still recording, but then she stopped outside of the door
Speaker 1: to his room and refused to go any further. And
Speaker 1: that's where this conversation happened. And you can find the
Speaker 1: tape on the New Yorker. But this is an NYPD tape,
Speaker 1: so UM, we're just gonna play that in full. It
Speaker 1: will give you a chance to hear what Harvey Wanton
Speaker 1: actually sounded like when he was trying to get a
Speaker 1: woman into a room with him. I'm telling you right now,
Speaker 1: what do we have to do being I an't gonna
Speaker 1: take a shower. You sit there and have a drink water,
Speaker 1: don't drink, and I stay on the bar. No, you
Speaker 1: must come here now. Please, I don't want I'm not
Speaker 1: doing anything you like embarrassing. I'm sorry. I think yesterday
Speaker 1: I was kind of aggressive for I need to know
Speaker 1: a person. I want to do a thing. I don't
Speaker 1: I would think. Please, I swear I won't just sit
Speaker 1: with me. Don't embarrass me in the hotel. Here all
Speaker 1: the time to promise to please sit there. Please one
Speaker 1: minute go to the bathroomlease. I don't want to do something.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to the pack. Come here,
Speaker 1: listen to me. I want to go downstairs. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to do anything. You'll never see me again. Acts
Speaker 1: if you if you embarrassed me in this hotel, I'm
Speaker 1: not embarrassing you. It's just that I don't I don't
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. I mean, you don't have a thing with me. Please,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do anything. I swear my children,
Speaker 1: please come in on everything. I'm a famous guy. You're
Speaker 1: being very uncomfortable. He's coming now and one minute and
Speaker 1: if you want to leave when the guy comes with
Speaker 1: my used today you touch my grace. Please, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Just come on. I'm used to that. Are you're used
Speaker 1: to that? No? But I'm not used to that if
Speaker 1: you please, no, I don't want to do you'll call
Speaker 1: me again. I'm sorry, I know, but yes, there was
Speaker 1: too much. I mean, I will never do another thing
Speaker 1: to you five minutes. Don't ruin your friendship with me
Speaker 1: for five minutes. I know, but it's kind of like
Speaker 1: it's too much for me. I kind of please. You're
Speaker 1: making a big scene here, but I want to fun
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, that was terrifying. Yeah, it's horrifying. And
Speaker 1: you heard that line where he says, I swear in
Speaker 1: my children's lives. I was just reading again another article
Speaker 1: today where someone pointed out I think it was one
Speaker 1: of his assistants actually was being interviewed, and she said
Speaker 1: that was his go to line if need to bring
Speaker 1: his kids up well, to to say whenever he wanted
Speaker 1: someone to trust him that he hadn't meant something or
Speaker 1: that he hadn't done anything bad, I swear on my
Speaker 1: children that I would never do anything. They would never
Speaker 1: do it. Like that was, like she said, he was constant,
Speaker 1: like that was. There was so much to unpack on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like one five minutes, I won't do anything, Like clearly
Speaker 1: you're just a crazy You're lying. I can't even the
Speaker 1: police wanted to go in and basically catch him on
Speaker 1: tape trying to assault her. Yeah. Yeah, they want to
Speaker 1: get as much as they can on to which is
Speaker 1: which is a little messed up on their end too,
Speaker 1: because like, I feel like they probably had enough at
Speaker 1: that point, because how would she escaped, you know, like,
Speaker 1: what were they planning on busting through the door and
Speaker 1: stopping it? I don't think So. There's so much there
Speaker 1: that it's just so fucked up, it's about to get
Speaker 1: fucked her. Uh So, Amber had had too much at
Speaker 1: that point. She left immediately after that call. She didn't
Speaker 1: go into the room with him. The police felt like
Speaker 1: they had enough evidence to press charges, so they pressed charges.
Speaker 1: They took it to the Manhattan d A's office. The
Speaker 1: d a's office spent two weeks, which is a really
Speaker 1: long time for this sort of thing, investigating the case,
Speaker 1: and then decided not to prosecute. Now, this may have
Speaker 1: had something to do with the avalanche of articles that
Speaker 1: came out in the meantime. So as soon as about
Speaker 1: Ambra yep in a bunch of magazines. Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: turned out she'd be in a witness in a bribery
Speaker 1: case against Italian President Silvio Berlisconi and an unwitting invatide
Speaker 1: to one of his Bunga Bunga parties. You've heard of
Speaker 1: that part. Silvio Berlusconi is a creepy funk who would
Speaker 1: have sex parties. She wound up at one of those,
Speaker 1: not knowing what it was and I think like left,
Speaker 1: but anyway, she was like a witness in a bribery
Speaker 1: case against him. Um. She had also previously accused an
Speaker 1: Italian businessman who she had had a relationship with, I
Speaker 1: think of sexual assault, and I guess the d A
Speaker 1: decided she wasn't credible enough, that it was just beyond
Speaker 1: the pale that an Italian supermodel would have had three
Speaker 1: inappropriate interactions with men in her life, which is like,
Speaker 1: it seems like if those are the only three times
Speaker 1: that she's been around creepy guys, I'm surprised. Oh God,
Speaker 1: people really don't get a ship about women. No, And
Speaker 1: it's likely that the d A probably got cold feet
Speaker 1: because of a prior profile case where Dominic Strauss Khan,
Speaker 1: who was a big wig with the I m F
Speaker 1: and a French politician guy had gotten charged with the
Speaker 1: rape of a Hotel maid Um. They had to drop
Speaker 1: the charges against him because of issues with the witness's credibility.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting story, you should read into it, but
Speaker 1: for this our purposes, the d A was scared of
Speaker 1: a repeat um and so, like everybody else in this
Speaker 1: story who enabled Harvey Weinstein, they were frightened for what
Speaker 1: going up against him could do to their careers, and
Speaker 1: so they backed down. Ambra understandably lost any kind of
Speaker 1: faith in the American legal system. She settled privately with Weinstein.
Speaker 1: As part of the settlement, she was acquired to hand
Speaker 1: all of her personal electronic devices over to a company
Speaker 1: called Kroll. Now. Kroll is a security services company. Their
Speaker 1: website claims that they're the quote leading global provider of
Speaker 1: risk solutions. Before Yeah, what they are is rent of spies,
Speaker 1: and that brings us to the end of today's podcast
Speaker 1: and is where we're going to start at part two,
Speaker 1: which is the army of spies that Harvey Weinstein hired
Speaker 1: and utilized in order to keep his secrets. These are
Speaker 1: probably the clearest monsters other than some of the people
Speaker 1: at the inquirer of this story, outside of Harvey Weinstein,
Speaker 1: and it is um. It is quite a thing to unpack.
Speaker 1: So if you want to join us on Thursday, we'll
Speaker 1: be getting into all that and finishing up the saga
Speaker 1: of all the mini bastards of Harvey Weinstein. Until then,
Speaker 1: I am Robert Evans and my guest has been I
Speaker 1: am an a host nan I am horrified. You want
Speaker 1: to tell the people where they can find you on
Speaker 1: the interweb. Sure, you can follow me on Twitter at
Speaker 1: at anna host n A N N A h O
Speaker 1: S S N I e H. You can listen to
Speaker 1: my podcast Ethnically Ambiguous on Apple podcast or wherever you
Speaker 1: find your podcasts, and you can follow my podcast on
Speaker 1: Twitter at A Nickelly am a m B on Twitter,
Speaker 1: where we post a lot of information about Middle Eastern news.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at at I right okay,
Speaker 1: where I also post a lot about Middle Eastern news. Uh.
Speaker 1: You can find this podcast on Twitter at Bastard's pod.
Speaker 1: You can find our website at behind the Bastards dot com,
Speaker 1: which we'll have some terrible pictures of Harvey Weinstein looking
Speaker 1: like a schlub and as well as the sources if
Speaker 1: you want to do more reading for yourselves. So until Thursday,
Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans, please keep feeling like you're covered in grease,
Speaker 1: because that's how I feel right now. M